elizabeth Garrett Anderson Hospital (UCH)

[geranium]

I'm hoping to change to UCH for a (probable) c-section (2nd one) in a few months time. I would be grateful for MN experience of Elizabeth Garrett Anderson Hospital and, in particular, if anyone has had a recent c-section there.

Midwife said the building was all fairly dark and gloomy (moving to new build in 2008) so I might not get that much from visiting but do MNers think it is clean, not to bad for MRSA and good in the event of c-sections/ emergency c-sections (if I went for trial of labour)? It sounds like there is a midwife-led unit and then a more medical, monitored unit. Is that right? If so, I think past history would mean I would be in the second so interesting to know what that in particular is like.

Thanks and sorry for all the questions. Just suddenly realising that if I don't sort myself out I may be down for an elective c-section in a place with a terrible reputation and bad (reputedly) MRSA rate.

[RTKangaMummy]

I was there, so was frogs and some others but 10 years ago

[pacinoFanOfBrusselsSprouts]

Sorry to say this but I was postively unimpressed by the (albeit brief) care I received at the ante-natal unit there.

I had a particularly awful female professor perform my 12 week scan, it was so badly done we actually made a verbal complaint to Bart's hospital who had made the referral. Lavatories were a disgrace - I seem to remember no flushing mechanism working, and that in a dept where they request females waiting for their scans drink a litre of water!

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but there it is.

[HappyMumof2]

Message withdrawn

[PrettyCandles]

OTOH, I had both of mine there, and rate it very highly. Virtually all of the staff were considerate and skillful. The FMU, where specialist scans are done, were outstanding. I gave birth in the 'medical' unit (can't remember what that unit is called, the midwife-led one is the Bloomsbury Birthing Centre) both times. The first time I laboured in the water-birth room, but never got to the water and transfered to the labour suite. The second time the pool room was busy, and there were no rooms available in the BBC, sot ehy put me in the high-tech labour ward, but treated me low-tech as if I was in the BBC. (Didn't make it to the pool that time either - I was too quick! )

One midwife was, I must admit, utterly awful and inflexible, but all the others were very supportive and gentle. One in particular, Sister Chris Mutakrishna, is truly god's gift to womankind. I cannot praise her highly enough. She delivered both of my children.

The facilities are dated and less-than-brilliant. It was clean though. But I do believe that it is the attitude of the staff that makes the difference, things like a doctor going off duty noticed my name listed in the labour ward, remembered me from an ante-natal checkup, realised that I was there far too early, and came to me to see if I was alright.

The worst thing about UCH/EGA is that the post-natal wards are far too hot, and the food is appalling.

[geranium]

Humm, so not an unqualified recommendation then. As I say, I think I will be in the medical part which is a shame since the Bloomsbury unit sounds lovely. Will check loos on the tour - thanks for tip off!

What are they like if you stay in over night? For my first experience I found the midwives good during the day but poor at night (especially for giving advice about breastfeeding).

[HappyMumof2]

Message withdrawn

[Cadmum]

I would fully agree with pacinofans assessment as I found my ante-natal experience there a complete nightmare but went on to deliver our 16.5 week miscarried twins there and the care was fantastic.
The midwives were kind, compassionate and professional. They called the consultant when required and talked us through the entire process leaving me feeling able to cope with the loss and heal physically and emotionally from the whole experience.

My room was relatively clean (apart from dripping pipes below the sink) and had a private bathroom with a toilet seat. (Feel that this is of note only because the ones at Guy's when I was there with DS2 did NOT have seats or lids.) I would highly recommend bringing some of your own cleaning supplies because the contractors can be hit and miss but this would apply to most hospitals... HTH

[geranium]

thanks Cadsmum and so sorry to hear about your experience.

[conni]

I find UCH absolutely awful, filthy (blood and vomit caked on floor when I came for 20 week scan first thing in the morning), blood and urine tests being lost on a regular basis, staff doesn't wash their hands, if use gloves they don't put new gloves on when taking bloods or go with hands which they did not wash in cardboard box to pick up gloves (so if there is something on their hands it will now be on the outside of the gloves),some staff friendly others simply can't be bothered, pot luck. Impossible to get hold of senior staff/consultants if you have urgent question. Often can't be bothered to explain what they are doing let alone ask your permission. I loathe this place, however, my preferred hospitals are all full, UCH not surprisingly got plenty of space. Also the place where this baby recently died because pediatrician mistook meningitis for tonsillitis, 3 hours later baby was dead.

Anyway good luck with whatever you decide.

[HappyMumof2]

Message withdrawn

[franch]

I've heard bad things about the cleanliness but otherwise everyone I know raves about the care. I had a homebirth via the EGA so can't really comment on the wards particularly, but the midwives and doctors were wonderful. A thousand percent better than the horrific Royal Free.

[geranium]

interesting to hear about the cleanliness point. That would really worry me if I ended up having a c-section and having to stay in a few days. Must try and find some stats. on cleanliness/ MRSA etc. Dept of Health might do them?

[HappyMumof2]

Message withdrawn

[Doumetta]

Hello,
I'm also trying to find more information about EGA/BBC. It seems they offer a tour on Wednesday (part of an antenatal course) and Sunday, when they start at 3pm from the labour ward. You have to check beforehand though in case the tour is cancelled because the ward is too busy. Phone the midwives at 0207 387 9300 ext. 9567.

While fishing out for this information (it was after work so nobody was there, I just picked up the info from the wall leaflets), I realised that you have to live in the catchment area of the hospital to register for antenatal courses. Does that also mean that you have to live in the catchment area to be booked in there and have antenatal care from them? Do they allow transfer of care from another hospital to theirs?

Sorry for so many questions, I'm struggling to get to grip with the English system (I'm French and it's my first pregnancy!), and I'm grateful for any light shed on this matter!

[conni]

To say that all maternity wards have problems with cleanliness seems an amazing statement to me, that is most definitely not my experience! I regard staff not washing their hands automatically and putting clean gloves on a rather serious issue! I have been in several hospitals where staff doesn't only wash their hands and put clean gloves on without being asked, don't sit on beds, and ask patients as well as visitors to also wash their hands automatically. Not my experience at UCH and that is apart from dirty floors etc.

[interstella]

I had a stiil birth there,the care was very good.Dont remember anything of the cleanliness tbh,but care deffo better than i received at another london hosp for my cs live birth.

[franch]

Doumetta you can choose to have your baby at any hospital. If you have any problems re. catchment areas, contact the head of midwifery Astrid Osbourne. I was out of the catchment area but she was super-accommodating and agreed to do my home birth - I saw community midwives and even had some antenatal appointments in my own flat. Alison McCrae (not sure of her title - consultant midwife or something) is also lovely, understanding and super-helpful.

[Doumetta]

Thank you Franch, this is quite reassuring!
I'll contact them first thing next week. But I'd rather go the Birth Centre than giving birth at home... I'll see if they can accomodate that wish!

[Tiggerish]

I had my first baby at UCH in 2002. The delivery suite and care was excellent but they did let themselves down a bit in the post-natal ward. It is rather dark and very dated but (then at least) it was clean. I was kept in for 3 days because ds wouldn't breastfeed and the pressure they put us under was dreadful. They couldn't have been less supportive or more unhelpful. We ended up bottle feeding just to get out. Still, that was more than 3 years ago and the staff are probably different now.

[franch]

Doumetta getting agreement for out-of-catchment care for a hosp birth is much easier than getting it for a home birth, for obvious reasons! You'll be fine - hope you have a good one

[geranium]

Doumetta

I spoke to EGA and they said they had plenty of room (possibly a bad sign?!), no catchment area and an out of area antenatal team. Seemed very laid back about my moving hospitals if I wanted (I',m 20 weeks) so you shouldn't have a problem.

But can understand antenatal classes being over subscribed. You could always try NCT which might be a better bet. Not sure how close you are to EGA but if you got classes with a local branch of NCT then friends you made there would be likely to live locally and it would be easier to stay in touch?

[franch]

I strongly recommend NCT rather than hosp classes

[PrettyCandles]

I did both NCT and UCH classes. The NCT ones are about childbirth in general and in detail, the UCH one was about how to give birth in UCH. Very useful from the point of view of understanding how they work, but no use at all for birthing itself. But you get to see all the facilities and get a clear understanding of what is available and how to get on with them and their workign practices. (It's all very well to say that we have theright to give birtha s we choose, but if we put ourselves under the care of another person or organisation then we need to accommodate each other.)

We found both times that staff tended to leave you alone unless you asked for help. But once asked you were never refused.

When ds was born, in 2000, I was also told that they wouldn't discharge me until he had fed well for a certain amount of time (don't remember how long). But I certainly didn't feel under pressure, more well-taken-care-of as a result. Not that it made any difference to our feeding in the logn run. When dd was born, in Dec 2002, I don't recall any such 'pressure'. In fact, I asked to stay in longer than necessary and that was fine by them.

The reason UCH tends to have space, and also tends to have poorer overall stats, is that they are have the specialist units that take 'problematic' pregnancies and births, far more so than the average community hospital.

[conni]

Franch, I don't think that you can choose whichever hospital you want because the more popular hospitals tend to be full for people outside the catchment area quite early on (I was told that you should have your GP write a letter to them when you are about 8(!!!) weeks pregnant to get a place (e.g.St Thomas or Queen Charlotte)).

UCH should not be a problem at all, I understand that they have plenty of space and hence with them there are no catchment area issues and I believe that you can transfer at any time (I read in the Evening Standard not long ago that they even want to start an advertising campaign to get more patients - so that is quite different compared with some other hospitals).

I don't know their record with MRSA rates, but to be honest given that (for all hospitals) this depends on self-reporting I would not rely too much on it, also it is not just MRSA to worry about, there was a scandal at an Aylesbury hospital (Stoke Mandeville, I think) where lots of patients died from another bug.

Maybe the only way to be sure is to bring your own cleaning products and to get a friend to clean your labour room before you use it, I assume that this is not an option if you end up in theatre but maybe a friend can clean the area surrounding your bed on the postnatal ward? And I would definitely insist (or have your partner doing this for you) that everybody washes their hands (properly with soap and water and gel (you can buy gel at Boots, Superdrug, Mothercare etc), because the gel does not kill all types bugs, hence the combination) before they touch you or your baby, and have them doing it in your sight, because if they do it before they enter the room they can still pick something up by opening the door. Given my experience you would have to be very assertive about this and that doesn't always go down well with the staff, but ultimately it is your and your baby's life at stake!).

Good luck

[PrettyCandles]

You can choose where to have your baby, though antenatal care may not be that convenient. I had shared care: booking-in, scans and blood tests at UCH, but all midwife appointments at my GP.

You don't even need to be booked at a hosptial to give birth there - no hospital can turn away a woman in labour unless they are completely full at that moment, or have no midwifery service at all.