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(124 Posts)
hsmom Tue 18-Jan-11 20:16:24

I dont know if any of you guys are or have been in a similar spot. I am 23+1 and at my 20 week scan was told baby was measuring 2 weeks too small. I have since been to fetal medicine locally who diagnosed Symetrical IUGR + low amniotic fluid and a reverse flow on ductus venous.
I am v anxious as I lost my last baby at 21 weeks due to congenital heart disease and cant shake this permonition that it is all happening again.
Any advice, thoughts? I have booked an appointment at FMC to see Prof Nicolaides and hope he can give me some answers. At my midwife appt on monday she found a heartbeat.
Thanks for any advice or similar situations,
hsmom x

sh77 Tue 18-Jan-11 22:14:26

Hi again
Babyandbump.com forum is also v useful for info. It has a gestational complications section with thread on iugr.

hsmom Wed 19-Jan-11 09:30:53

Thanks a million! Just getting ready to head to FMC.... got my book ;-)

sh77 Wed 19-Jan-11 09:49:53

All the best. Let me know how it goes.

hsmom Fri 21-Jan-11 10:04:14

Hi sh77
I went to see Prof Nicolaides and the news isnt good.
My baby is getting worse, not better. She hasnt gained any weight at all in the 10 days since last scan (still only weighing around 300grms so measuring about 19 weeks and I am 24 on Monday). She is now showing signs of enlarged heart as its having to work so hard to get oxygen.
Prof said the most likely prognosis is that she will die in the next few weeks.
He has offered me another scan in 2 weeks and in the meantime I have an appt at my local fetal medicine clinic (on Monday). I have felt less and less movements so I guess she is starting to fade.
Feeling a bit numb.

Thanks for your help and support these past couple of days.
hs xxx

KnockedUpMell Fri 21-Jan-11 10:09:43

I am really so so sorry to hear that your scan did not go well. Sometimes babies (and nature) surprises us. I worked with a lot of women with IUGR babies in the past, and occasionally, despite the scans looking very negative, some babies just hung in there till they reached a stage where delivery was a possibility. Sending a hug your way.


CalaLilly Fri 21-Jan-11 10:13:42

Gosh, I am terribly sorry to hear your news. I can not imagine how heart broken you must be. I know that there may only seem to be a glimmer of Hope for your baby but here is a story about a baby born 17 weeks early at under 400g that survived against all the odds and celebrated her first birthday last week:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1342328/ Turning-baby-born-17-weeks-early-just-13oz.html

Take care x

sh77 Fri 21-Jan-11 10:15:26

Gosh. I am really really sorry that this is happening, and happening again. Reading your post brings tears to my eyes. I hope you have lots of love and support in real life. Please do get in touch if you want to chat or need any advice. Big hug. Will be thinking of you. xxx

sh77 Fri 21-Jan-11 10:27:15

Also, on Monday, maybe you ask about what can be done to improve the chances of your daughter getting to 400g. Not sure if blood thinners would be an option.

I am in London if you ever need someone to talk to.

hsmom Fri 21-Jan-11 11:27:08

Thanks ladies,
I am holding onto a very feight hope. Prof Nicolaides said that my scan was v strange. Baby clearly in trouble but the strange thing is that blood supply from me to placenta and placenta to baby appears normal, and thats not usual with the other symptoms. The thing is, she is moving less, the amniotic fluid is diminishing and that indicates that her kidneys arent working and she is not peeing. she has only gained 20gms in the last 4 weeks.
Will ask all the questions I can but its so difficult to be positive - especially knowing what has happened before. Maybe I am destined to just have one (and I have to count my blessings that I have a wonderful, healthy 7 year old miracle already).
Thank you all for thinking of me. Its amazing how comforting it is to know that.

sh77 Fri 21-Jan-11 12:00:54

Life is just so utterly strange and the way things happen just don't make sense. After one loss, one dares to believe that it won't happen again. I started to lose hope after my daughter died and then 2 miscarriages. I have 7 weeks left but I know something could wrong at any moment.

Don't rule anything out for the future. When you are feeling strong, you need to request tests to establish if there is a reason - karyotyping to determine any genetic issues and blood clotting tests.

I read a similar case on babyandbump. It might be worth contacting the poster. Poster's name is HopefulMi. Here is a link to one of her posts. I think the outlook for her baby was not so good in December but I think things have improved (or not become worse) and she is having a c-section soon. I ams ure she would be able to advise you on questions to ask.

http://www.babyandbump.com/premature-babies/487194 -terrible-news-question-labour.html


Sparklies Fri 21-Jan-11 15:41:52

I am so sorry you've had such awful news, especially a second time. Very glad you have seen the professor - he's probably about the only doctor I'd trust these days!

Very much hoping you get a miracle. It is so very unfair.

LuluLozenge Fri 21-Jan-11 17:05:07

No experience to offer but just wanted to say my heart goes out to you and I hope that against all odds something positive happens.


sh77 Mon 24-Jan-11 10:12:34

All the best for today - thinking of you.

hsmom Mon 24-Jan-11 12:58:04

Thank you to all of you who have posted lovely thoughts and support on this thread.
The news today was perhaps a little more encouraging.
The consultant at Birmingham said that she had grown and by their calculations she was measuring at around 410 grms.
He couldnt find a reverese flow either on the Ductus, so maybe things have started to correct themselves.
She is still very small. 21weeks approx instead of the 24 that my dates are.
They were lovely and recognised my need to keep being scanned so have arranged for me to go again next week - not for a growth scan (they want to leave a 2 week gap for that) but that I can go next monday to have a quick check and another chat.
Dopplers as before look normal, and this consultant agreed with Prof that its strange.
Fingers crossed and waiting game continues,

Love and thanks again for your thoughts.
hs xx

sh77 Mon 24-Jan-11 13:07:48

Oh that is wonderful news! At 410g, she has a chance.

Some women measure small throughout without it being a major problem.

Did they give you any advice about things you should do? Also, has amniotic fluid increased?

You need to rest a lot in order to increase blood supply to baby. Also, keep fluids up.

TheVisitor Mon 24-Jan-11 13:10:54

The very best of luck. I had 3 IUGR babies (triplets) born at 33wks2days and my daughter was only 2lb4oz. You wouldn't think so now. She's nearly 12 and just a little small for her age. Her brothers were just over 3lbs each and are average height. All are healthy.

WillbeanChariot Mon 24-Jan-11 13:59:43

Hi hsmom. Only just seen this thread. I am glad you are getting well looked after. I will be hoping and praying for a positive outcome.

My DS was delivered at 27 weeks for severe IUGR. I didn't go through the worry you are suffering now as it was only found earlier that week. Doctors estimated that he stopped growing around 22 weeks. He weighed 560g (1lb 4oz) at birth.

The doppler scans I had varied from absent to reverse flow and I believe there was reverse flow in the ductus venosa when they decided on delivery.

My son's weight scans were accurate but I also know another mum who had a tiny one, and her scans were about 100g out. It may have been because she was a twin?

Do you know when they will deliver if things do not improve? I expect they will want her to grow a bit bigger if possible for a better chance. Every day she can stay inside improves her chances.

When I was playing the waiting game with DS (only for a few days) I talked to him all the time and wrote him letters encouraging him to keep fighting and grow. It made me feel really close to him.

Sorry this is a bit of a ramble. I will be thinking of you.

hsmom Tue 25-Jan-11 16:43:42

Thanks so much, ladies. You are all so supportive.
I feel strangely confused because I am now sort of ignoring the prognosis of the best doctor in the land (Nicolaides) for my local consultant because he had the best news! Irrational or what??
They didnt say when they would deliver - just that they would take it week by week with the weekly doppler and well-being scan and the bi weekly growth scans. He did say, however, that if I were at 28 weeks now with similar growth patterns and dopplers he wouldnt be delivering me now. Not sure if thats good or not.
WillbeanChariot - how long ago was your experience? Hope all turned out ok.

Thanks for your thoughts,

Hi, I just wanted to add my best wishes too and to let you know I'm keeping everything crossed for you smile x

sh77 Wed 26-Jan-11 13:06:32

It is really good that you are feeling more positive and I am wishing you all the very best in the days/weeks to come.

Don't panic too much if your week to week scans don't show show much growth. It is good that they are monitoring growth v closely but in practice, a span of time will tell you and the docs more (e.g., she might grow more in one week than another and so overall growth between 2 weeks is more useful.

I do research on extreme prematurity (babies born between 22-26 completed weeks of gestation). Every week that baby stays inside you will improve her chance of survival and outcomes post birth significantly. Care for prem babies has improved vastly and seems like you are being cared by a good hospital. Does it have good neo-natal facilities? So, eat and drink well, rest, try to be positive whenever you can. I know you must be very worried.

Keep us updated. We are all rooting for you and your daughter.

WillbeanChariot Wed 26-Jan-11 13:55:19

Hello hsmom. There is nothing irrational about you, I did exactly the same and clung to the positives even in the face of a likely negative outcome. And I'm sorry I wasn't clear about the outcome in my post, DS is 17 months now and he should be fine. he had a long NICU journey and he's a bit small and behind in some ways but getting there. We were told he wasn't likely to make it, but he is making a racket right now over his baby monitor.

I think it is a good sign that they wouldn't deliver now if you were 28 weeks. My hospital wanted me to get to 28 weeks but they felt it was necessary to deliver earlier based on scans.

I feel for you so much, I didn't have anything like this much time waiting and monitoring but I can relate to what you must be going through. I second what sh77 says, we are rooting for you.

duchesse Thu 27-Jan-11 16:11:23

Crossing my fingers for you hsmom. I had an IUGR scare picked up at the same stage of pregnancy with DD2 and took myself off to the Harris Birthright centre for a second opinion at 38 weeks (local hospital were still insisting on two-weekly scans). They really seem to know their stuff. Really hoping your little one holds on to a decent gestation and size.

Tara888 Fri 28-Jan-11 17:55:39

I'm in a similar situation. I live at high altitude and am worried that my baby boy might have asymmetric IUGR. His bones seem ok but his tummy has gone from 57th percentile to 12 percentile in 7 weeks.
We're having a second opinion on Monday as the first doctor doesn't seem concerned. I'm hoping he just needs a little growth spurt and all will be ok but worried as everything else looks normal.
I really hope your little one hangs in there - its so scary but there are a lot of success stories and I hope you'll be one of them. Best doctor in the land or worst doctor, you hang on to the positives, your bubs needs you to believe they can pull through.

hsmom Thu 03-Feb-11 10:42:09

Good luck, Tara888. 12th percentile is still considered within the 'normal' range. I am rooting for you. How many weeks are you now?

As for me, I got back from FMC yesterday with a much more positive prognosis. I am now 25+3 and my baby is still <5th percentile but fluid has increased to be just above the lower range of normal and the reverse flow vessel has seemingly corrected itself. Prof was very pleased and said that there is no reason why the pregnancy cant go on for a long time yet. He said it was very unusual as 2 weeks ago every indicator was that my baby was dying.
Main concern now is that the time without much oxygen may have affecetd her brain development but we simply can't know that.
She is still approx 3 weeks behind where she should be but I am hopeful that her development will now keep pace with 'normal' babies or, even better, if she could start to claw some of that growth back

Next step is a growth scan at local fetal medicine on Monday. I will keep you posted.
Take care all,
hsmom xx

sh77 Thu 03-Feb-11 11:08:59

Sent you a PM. BTW have you had a customised growth chart (takes in to account maternal BMI and ethnicity)? I imagine Birmingham use them as they were developed there.

hsmom Thu 03-Feb-11 13:13:31

I will ask them on Monday. I have one in my green notes but they havent been plotting anything on it up to now.
Thanks for PM - I have replied.

WillbeanChariot Thu 03-Feb-11 21:59:22

Hello again, I am so pleased to read your news, been checking for updates! I am so glad your little one is surprising the doctors, hope she continues to grow and your pregnancy is long and dull.smile

hsmom Fri 04-Feb-11 10:31:04

Thank you! Long and dull would be great...
Will post again after scan on Monday.

sh77 Fri 04-Feb-11 10:59:35

Hope you are well. Should have said that the customised charts are for fundal height measurements only rather than specific biometric measures. Worth speaking to MW anyway - 30% of babies classified as under/overweight on the normal charts are actually within limits once maternal BMI and ethnicity taken into account. Good luck on Monday.

hsmom Mon 07-Feb-11 14:53:33

Hiya -
Hope you are ok and not climbing the walls too much!
Just back from my growth scan at birmingham. Baby continues to grow (a little). She now weighs an approx 550grams (vs 410 here 2 weeks ago) and growth is now apparently correlating to 'normal' growth patterns, although she remains v small <5th centile - around 23 weeks in size instead of the 26 I actually am.
They will continue to scan me weekly so next monday will be a wellbeing scan and the following one will be growth again (at 28 weeks if I get there!).
Consultant feels this is likely placental insufficiency so each week is a bonus but its likely they will deliver early whatever.
They are now saying that past 28 weeks, I could have a C section at my local hosp as it has a neo-natal that can cope with 28+, but I think I would rather stay at the sepcialist regional unit thats equipt for 24+. I just think they will be more capable..... any thoughts?
BTW - they are totally ignoring the fundal measurements and the customised chart in my notes and using a series of charts for various measurements (BPD, HC and AC + EFW) on their notes for me.
Take it easy,
hs xx

midori1999 Mon 07-Feb-11 15:08:57

I have only just seen this thread.

It sounds like things are really looking up and I hope they continue to improve. Now your baby is over 500g, if they need to get her out for any reason it means she has a chance and every day she is inside you her chances go up. (generally they can't help babies under 500g as they are simply too small to be able to get lines in)

I'm not sure if you've considered contacting Bliss, the premature baby charity, or looking on their forum? If there's a chance your baby may be early it could provide you with important information and help prepare you. I also knwo there are quite a few ladies on their forums who had babies delivered early due to IUGR.

sh77 Mon 07-Feb-11 19:26:41

What a little fighter! That is really encouraging news. Stick to hospital with the best facilities. if you deliver earlier than 28 baby may well get transferred to the other hospital.

WillbeanChariot Mon 07-Feb-11 21:25:49

Hello- I am so pleased to read your news. I second Midori's suggestion about Bliss, lots of info and hand holding on the boards over there, and very useful booklets available.

I would stay at the specialist hospital. When DS was born he was about 23 week size and the consultants gave him the same sort of chance as a 23 weeker rather than the 27 weeks he was. He needed all the help he could get as the first few days were very fraught. He may well have got the same care at our more local unit but I was much happier being somewhere where they are dealing with babies that small every day.

Thinking of you and your little fighter. I hope she continues to grow.

normathesurvivor Mon 07-Feb-11 22:32:01

thinking of u. Hugs

hsmom Tue 08-Feb-11 16:33:10

Thanks so much ladies. I will try to get them to transfer my care from local to the specialist unit when I am there next Monday.
I really cant thank you all enough though, for all your support and views. It really is so amazing to know you're not alone.
Thank you all, so much.
Will keep you posted.
ps - been on the bliss website - thanks for the info!

Hi hsmom I just saw this thread and wanted to add my story to the other encouraging ones as I know how good it is to hear them when you are going through it!

My 12wk scan with DS2 was perfectly normal, but at 20 weeks only his head measurement (barely) made it on to the chart, he seemed to be about 3 weeks behind. Dopplers were normal except for the reverse flow, which was absent, the significance of which no one seemed to be sure of at any time.

We were told the most likely explanation (by Prof Nicolaides team at Harris at KCH) was severe, early onset IUGR and the outlook was poor. His estimated weight was 120g and as you know, the target for delivery into scbu with a good outcome is 28wks and 600g....which seemed such a long way away. We had amnio, TORCH screens, achondroplasia tests done, all came back clear so we then continued to scan every two weeks (and torture ourselves with what awful conditions might be causing the growth restriction-please try not to do that too!). Like your little one, DS2 also seemed to defy expectations because he continued to grow at normal velocity, following a standard curve but right at the bottom, or below the chart. The prof suggested that maybe there had been some damage to placenta early on but that it had repaired itself..some amazing things can happen.

We made it to 37 weeks, at which point the fluid was low, so they induced me. DS was born weighing 4lbs but fine, no need for scbu, just 3 nights in hospital to
get his blood sugars up and treat a bit of jaundice with
light blanket. He is still, at 13m and approx 7kg just below the 0.4th centile but perfectly normal, developmentally on track (chatty, says mama, dada, sibling names, feeding himself, almost walking). He is the happiest baby I have ever met and so cute. Although we hope he will catch up in size, after such a stressful and seemingly never ending pregnancy we feel so lucky to have him. I really hope you have a similar story to tell soon, it sounds as if it may be heading that way smile. keep us posted, I will be thinking of you and wishing you well.

Sparklies Sun 13-Feb-11 13:23:00

Hope your appointment tomorrow goes well!

WillbeanChariot Sun 13-Feb-11 18:29:22

Good luck tomorrow hsmom, thinking of you.

hsmom Mon 14-Feb-11 12:05:15

Hello ladies.
Just popped on before heading for another scan this afternoon.

Dear Sleepwhenidie - THANK YOU for such a wonderfully uplifting story. I really hope this baby does what your DS did. I am absolutely petrified that there will be something seriously wrong that will be lifechanging for us as a family (I know that sounds so selfish and to be honest I am a little ashamed of those emotions).
I am sooo delighted that your DS is doing well. Its amazing and indeed kind of echos what we are going through. Prof said exactly the same to me - placental insufficiency causing severe early onset IUGR.
Your story of getting to 37 weeks is uplifting for me. (I made it to 41+3 with my DS!!!). I have packed a hospital bag for me already (I have nothing for baby - it feels like tempting fate) as I am so afraid they will tell me to come in and deliver.
I am having a bit of a bad few days and can't get the dark feelings to go away - 27 weeks today so getting closer to that magical 28.
Can I ask you a question about your bump? Did you feel small? At school there is a woman who is 2 weeks further than me but she looks about to pop. My bump doesnt even stick out further than my boobs! Its irrational I know.....
Hey ho - thanks to everyone for your kind thoughts ref the appt this pm. Just a wellbeing scan today (so dopplers and liquor). Will let you all know how I get on.

Have a lovely day xxx

sh77 Mon 14-Feb-11 12:12:34

Good luck!

Your feelings are natural and don't feel guilty about how you are feeling. It is a daunting preg. and just concentrate on getting through each week.

Re bump size - this depends on mother's build and the amount of fluid, how baby is lying and size of baby. I am quite slim and have only put on a stone (now 35 weeks). Nobody can believe I am I am that far gone as bump is so small, and was in 1st preg. Baby is measuring fine though. So, don't worry too much about bump size.

Let us know how you get on.

Hi hsmom - please try not to get too down, your progress sounds very encouraging. Your little one should have a great chance of being fine if they had to deliver now-and it sounds like they are nowhere near doing that, given the growth pattern and dopplers.

In response to your question, yes I was small. Was third pg and I remember saying to DH at about 19 wks I was a bit worried that I could still fit into most of my clothes and couldn't feel movements. I never did get much movement either, I think it's because IUGR babies put all their energy into growing rather than kicking and wriggling!

If you want to pm me would be happy to chat more on phone or by email. Have to dash now but good luck for scan smile.

hsmom Tue 15-Feb-11 16:09:18

Hello all,
Quick update from my wellbeing scan yesterday.
All looking OK - phew - dopplers all 'normal', no reverse flow in the ductus and slightly more fluid than last time again considered in the range of 'normal'(deepest pool now 41.7mm). Baby was quite active and breathing a lot (took them ages to locate the ductus!).
Next appointment will be next monday for growth - and that magical 28 week milestone.
No indication of pre term labour, so as long as she keeps growing to the curve, I want her to stay IN!!

Does anyone have views on the steroid injection? My consult at the general suggested last week they give to me at 28 weeks, but consult at fetal med said he prefers to do before imminent delivery unless pre term labour is indicated. Saw some stuff on bliss site suggesting the latter is best. Thoughts?

Hope you are all OK.
sh77, I am thinking of you bored to bits at home! Take good care xxx

Hi hsmom just for info, I had almost all my scans at fmc and there was no mention of steroid injections at any point, probably because there was no point where early delivery looked imminent - which would tally with your FM consultant, so probably best advice.

sh77 Tue 15-Feb-11 17:07:30

Absolutely amazing! She is getting stronger and stronger by the day. Really v pleased for you.

I do research on prem babies. I would say steroids just before labour. The whole point of it is to help/mature lungs before birth. You may well carry to a longer date. Steroids is an influential predictor of survival.

I am doing well. Had my final scan today. Baby growing but will prob be smal, which is fine. I have weekly appointments until c-sec in 3 weeks. I have a few things planned and so that helps to keep my mind busy. Most of baby shopping is done.

WillbeanChariot Wed 16-Feb-11 09:16:42

That is great news, I am so pleased for you.

I had steroids before my son was born and I am sure they made all the difference for him, but it was only about three days before delivery. I am no expert but a few things I have read suggest that the benefits wear off over time, so the closer they are to delivery the better. But balanced against that is the fact that they like to give two doses 12 hours apart so in a true emergency situation they can't do that.

I was always small too, in fact my midwife measured me small which was the first indicator that something was wrong.

Looking forward to more good news next Monday!

Sparklies Wed 16-Feb-11 14:32:59

What sh77 says about the steroids. I was offered them last time out at 28 weeks but was advised against them unless I showed definite signs of PTL. As it happens I had PTL at 34 weeks (had them then - right on the cusp of "usefulness" and DC2 was born at 35 weeks.

The benefits only last a week or so, so timing is critical.. BUT.. you also need enough time to get the things in, so it's a really tough call to make!

Very glad to hear all is looking good and yay for nearly 28 weeks!!

WillbeanChariot Tue 22-Feb-11 17:57:53

Thinking of you hsmom. Hope all is well.

Hi hsmom, did you have a scan yesterday? How did you get on? Hope all is going well.

hsmom Mon 28-Feb-11 12:45:52

Hi All,
Sorry I didnt get on last week. Half term madness with my 7 year old.
Yes - I had my scan last week - thanks for thinking of me. It was all OK - running on average about 3 weeks behind at 28 weeks, but I actually had some better measurements than I expected. She came up at 820grms, which seemed such a huge jump from the 560 of previous time.
Other measurements keeping track with 'appropriate' growth.
Still not decided ref the steroids. Have been seriously considering amnio as I am petrified that there is some other 'reason' for all this. Just cant decide though. I guess i would have the steroids if I were to have the amnio as a just in case.
Got another dopplers scan this afternoon, so will let you know how I get on.
Thanks a lot,
hsmom xxxx

Sparklies Mon 28-Feb-11 14:02:25

Glad to hear the weight is still going up! I am also considering a late amnio for mine (due to bad bloodwork at 12 weeks) at 32 weeks - yes, there is a risk of PTL but I don't believe it's any higher than the risk of losing the baby earlier. However if they offer steroids to go with the amnio, take them just in case given you already have concerns!

Hopefully it is just a placenta thingy though and all is perfect with the baby

GenTay Mon 28-Feb-11 17:53:42

Hi I'm sorry to gatecrash not been on here before. I am 22+ 5 and am in a similar situation, I was diagnosed with extreme early onset of IUGR at my 20 wk scan. My little girl was only measuring 17wks. My care has been transferred to Oxford where th consultant gave me little or no hope and told me my baby is unlikely to survive as she is too tiny ( 7oz) approx. I had an amniocentesis as he thought it was likely my baby had tripolodgy and I would therefore require a termination. Th results have come back negative. Th apt in Oxford was two weeks ago today and I am having to wait until nx mon for a repeat scan to see if she has grown. I have been torturing myself trailing th Internet when I came across your blob. I wanted to say u have given me great hope and I am
So happy that things have turned around for you it shows miracles do happen. I hope we can be as lucky as my consultant also told me it was likely I would loose her naturally after a couple of weeks however I still feel her moving every day and her heart beat is normal.
Sorry to go on and thanks for taking time to read this.

hsmom Tue 01-Mar-11 12:03:56

Dear GenTay,
I am sorry to hear you are going through the same turmoil. Hang in there - things do change.
Its great news that your amnio came up clear. Its not long before your next scan on Monday. They will look very closely at the performance of all the blood vessels in and out of the placenta I am sure, to see if its placental insufficiency.
They are still 'suspecting' that's what the cause is for me, and I am still grappling with having amnio or not.
I will PM you.

As for me, had the dopplers scan yesterday - all looking OK - fluid continues to be normal. Next growth scan will be next wednesday 9th.

Sparklies - how many weeks are you? We cant be so far apart, eh?

sh77 - not long now! Hope you are OK and taking it easy.
take care all

GenTay Tue 01-Mar-11 15:13:04

Thank you for taking th time to reply to me and I just want to thank you for giving me some hope, and all th best for your next growth scan il be keeping everything crossed for you x

WillbeanChariot Tue 01-Mar-11 18:27:43

hsmom I'm glad to hear your scan went well. That is a fabulous weight!

GenTay I hope that things turn around for you.

GenTay Wed 09-Mar-11 09:41:41

Hope your scan goes well today, thinking of u all xxx

Sparklies Wed 09-Mar-11 13:00:27

Oooh, good luck with the growth scan today!

Sorry I missed your last reply. I'm 31 weeks so not far off you. I can't remember if I said, but I was at high risk of IUGR due to really, really low PAPP-A at my 12 week bloodwork but ironically baby is measuring a few weeks ahead by ultrasound as of last week. You really can never tell with these things!

My amnio is on Monday if I decide to go ahead with it. I'll let you know what they say about the risks all the same

hsmom Wed 09-Mar-11 13:18:06

Hi Sparklies,
I have just come across the concept of low Papp-a. What constitutes a 'low' result? I have googled but dont seem to find any ranges. Mine was 1.060IU/l equv to 0.460MoM.

Good luck on monday - My US is at 4pm.....

GenTay - thanks for thinking of me. Have sent u a pm.... xxxxxxxxx

Sparklies Wed 09-Mar-11 20:11:30

Thanks!! Hope it went well today! I hate late-in-the-day ultrasounds when they're likely to be stressful ones.

0.46MoM for PAPP-A is above the cut-off for "low".. which is 0.35-0.4 depending on the clinic really. So it's on the low end of normal rather than "worryingly low" if you see what I mean!

The MoM values (whether for bHCG or PAPP-A) are based upon your gestation, your weight, whether you smoke believe it or not, and several other factors, so the iu/i measurement on its own is not used. It's the MoM value that is fed into the formula to calculate risk. However, it does mean that if your gestational age is wrong, or you're weighed with a coat on, or other tiny things like that, the MoM can sometimes be a long way off what it should be.

hsmom Thu 10-Mar-11 09:11:10

Thanks Sparklies, I did ask the consultant about it and he confirmed that he didnt consider my result to be 'low'.
I am still grappling with amnio as I have a horrible premonition that something is seriously wrong. I know its natural to be anxious but its almost taking over.
Yesterday, at 30+2, my baby was around 1050grm (so about 2 lb 5oz) so she is growing but still way behind where she should be (about 1450grm). The femur length is the one thats still way way behind measuring at less than 27 weeks.
My screening was very low even taking into account my age (I am 41). my risk was 1:1453. There are no evident markers on the scans for any significant problems apart from the obvious small sizeI had TORCH screening too.
They still think the most likely reason for the IUGR is placental insufficiency - BUT I have NEVER had a single doppler scan where the uterine or umbilical arteries have been anything but 'normal'.
I guess the dilemma is whether to risk early labour. I know the risk is slight and they would give me thr steriods just in case. sorry for prattling on.......

Sparklies - why did you decide to wait until 32 weeks?

hs xxx

Sparklies Thu 10-Mar-11 19:13:15

Very glad to hear your little one is still growing!

There's so many scary things about an amnio. Not just the risk of losing the baby, but the Wait For Results. And then what if the results are bad? Even if we could have testing without any risks, there would still be that fear and reluctance based on those results. Of course if all is fine we want to know NOW, but if it's not, would we rather carry on in limbo instead of knowing? It is hard to say.

I know just what you mean about the anxiety taking over. Even with the not-so-bad odds in my situation, it has taken over - it is hard for it not to. Pregnancy is a naturally anxious time anyway, but give a "face" to that fear with something actually being possibly wrong, and there's no stopping the worry.

One thing that brings me comfort is on another board I am on, a poster talked about how when she was waiting it out she would get "signs" - e.g. weird coincidences, bad dreams etc that her baby was "the one" (in X) and she was so sure it was going to happen. And then.. her baby was perfectly healthy. Plenty of other people chimed in with similar stories too. Goodness knows I have convinced myself on many occasions so the fact that others go through this and it is all okay is reassuring! Obviously some people do go on to get bad news after all this, but not everyone

From my own research, short femurs are not a great marker for Down syndrome at least. Yes, it's common for babies with Down syndrome to have femurs that measure behind but the reverse is not true at all - i.e. it's not true that babies with short femurs are likely to have Down syndrome. My first two both had short femurs (2 weeks or more behind) and are fine.

32 weeks is the date given by various organisations (including ARC and my own hospital) as a "safer" time to have an amnio. The risk of miscarriage becomes the risk for preterm labour basically. From what limited research I have been able to find - one study looked at around 1,000 third trimester amnios (done for lung maturity admittedly) and although there was a complication rate of 0.7%, none of the mothers or babies died. Most complications were pPROM or PTL as you might expect.

It's interesting that the dopplers are saying the placenta is just fine - I wish I knew more about that sort of thing but it's (so far!!) not something I've needed to research.

On the plus side your baby is past the "magic" 1kg weight limit - apparently this makes a big difference in survival rates.

Hang in there. When is your next scan - what's the next move?

GenTay Fri 11-Mar-11 15:33:43

So I'm now feeling very confused and not really sure what to think. At my consultant apt today he wanted to discuss whats going to happen after birth and th nicu stay! I was told on Monday I'm going to loose my little girl in a very short period of time and offered a termination. A few days later they are discussing giving me steroids in two weeks and the birth. I honestly dont know what to think. I'm 24+1 my little girl measures 18/19weeks and the outcome looks so poor so why are they getting my hopes up. Is it possible just a discussion they have to have incase a miracle happens?
From a very confused Gen xx

hsmom Sat 12-Mar-11 13:22:52

oh Gen - what a rollercoaster you are on.... That particular consultant may think there is a slim chance that things may turn around. I cant imagine they would do anything just to keep your hopes up. Thats better news but still a concern.
It is so difficult when the news seemingly conflicts and what seems to be a categorical fact for one medical expert is more of a judgement from another.
When is your next appt?

GenTay Sat 12-Mar-11 17:23:39

My next consultant apt and growth scan is two weeks time however I'm going to fetal health twice a week for th midwives to check heart beat

hsmom Mon 14-Mar-11 14:53:04

Good luck with the next one. I was just reading some of this tread from a few weeks ago and its astounding just how far my baby has come. I am keeping positive for you - sometimes babies can defy all the odds.
Take care and let me know how the next appt goes - my next scan is this wednesday for dopplers. 31 weeks today.
hs xx

sh77 Mon 14-Mar-11 20:25:14

hi hsmom

sorry i haven't replied in ages. i understand the anxiety you are facing given there is nothing to suggest why baby is small. she is doing a really fab job of growing and it could turn out to be nothing hopefully. and you are right - let this threa be a reminder of that.

throughout my preg, i was looking for things that pointed to problems but my son arrived safely on wednesday and is fine. i feel real joy for his presence but the deep sadness at not being able to leave the hospital with my first baby won't go away.

i will be following your thread. please pm me if you need any advice.

Hi all - just dropping in to see how you are all getting on. If it is any comfort, DS1 was small throughout pg with short femurs, he was scanned throughout pg and continued to grow on and was born on 9th centile (6lbs femurs stayed looking short at all scans) and now is a very healthy, very normal, leggy 5yo.

DS2, as I have explained before, was also tiny throughout pg and was IUGR, born 4lbs but fine. His femurs were also short, even in comparison to all his other measurements. He is still tiny, but gorgeous and healthy - except today, with a horrid tummy bug - at 14m. All my dopplers were normal from about 28 weeks on. I think that the natural thing to happen with IUGR is for baby's growth to concentrate on the brain and head and then downwards through the body - in order of importance. That is why legs end up lagging behind!

HSmom as I said in my PM a few weeks back, I completely understand your worries about what could be causing the growth problems, but it really is most likely to be placental and I think that while most likely amnio will confirm what is not a problem, will it then stop you worrying about the hundreds of other possibilities that it would not pick up? It didn't for me. Also, before going for the amnio, how would you feel if nothing is wrong, it triggers prem labour? Is it worth the risk? I am pretty sure that the drs, especially prof Nicolaides, would have told you if they thought DS was a likely possibility..there are so many other markers that would have been picked up.

Have posted some pics of DC's on profile for you to see how normal the boys turned out, I am sure your DD will do the same, she has such a great chance at the weight and stage she has reached already, I think she is a fighter, just like ds2.

Gen - good luck, I really feel for you. Things may yet turn around though, it doesn't sound like you should give up hope yet. Keep us posted.

Sh - congratulations!grinYou will be going home with your little bundle soon and the hospital will be a distant memory. Try and enjoy being looked after by others for a while, even if its not the same as being home. Where are you?

Apologies, sh, I now realise what you mean about leaving hospital with your first baby, I reiterate my congratulations on DC2 but am so sorry for your earlier losssad.

GenTay Tue 15-Mar-11 08:28:43

Sh congratulations how wonderful and nice to hear some new news. I hope your both well and enjoying every minute. They grow up so fast so treasure these first few precious weeks.

hsmom Tue 15-Mar-11 14:10:23

what wonderful posts. Thank you sh77. I have been thinking of you and did think that your c section was last week but have shamefully been so selfishly caught up with stuff that I didnt pm you or post here. I am delighted for your new arrival - how did it all go? what was the weight of your DS? please share!
Sleepwhenidie - thanks also to you - you summed up my fears and concerns. I looked at your photohs! Thanks - what a lovely family you have. Am erring on the side of the amnio - I know it wont tell me everything but i feel i need some firm answers on some stuff.seeing fetal medicine again tomorrow and that will help me make my final decision. will let you know as I will prob have the steroids for lung development first so will likely have a few days before the proceedure.
Gen - great to see you on here. I am keeping you in my thoughts.
hs xx

GenTay Tue 15-Mar-11 15:34:06

Just to let you know poppy passed away today going back to the hospital soon to deliver. I have been prepared for this and I'm glad it was natures choice and I didn't have th termination they offered. Thank you all for being so kind and supportive, good luck with your beautiful babies keep me updated.
Love poppies mummy Genna xxxxx

So sorry Gen sad. will be thinking of you. xx

Millymolliemandy Tue 15-Mar-11 17:00:37

I am so sorry to hear your sad news Gen, I have been lurking and watching and hoping all would turn out well. Thinking of you at this sad time.

I have a growth scan coming up this Thurs at 26 + 3 as baby is measuring small. This thread has been a great source of support and help to me.

Sparklies Tue 15-Mar-11 17:09:43

GenTay, I am so, so sorry Very much thinking of you.

hsmom Tue 15-Mar-11 19:15:29

Genna...... all my love to you.
So so sorry that Poppy had to leave you.
Am thinking of you. Please pm when you can.
Take care of yourself,
hs xx

WillbeanChariot Wed 16-Mar-11 20:57:25

GenTay, I am so very sorry that your little girl has died. I am thinking of you and Poppy.

hsmom Thu 24-Mar-11 12:53:48

Hello everyone.
I just wanted to post a little update on my IUGR journey so far.
Now 32 weeks and I had my growth scan on monday.
The growth is now slowing - baby estimated at 2lb 11oz, which is 6oz in 2 weeks thus not as much as needed to keep her on the 'appropriate growth' curve (that would have needed to be about 3lb).
Consultant now saying that 34 week scan will be critical to decide delivery or not.

I also had a different doctor doing the scan than I have been used to. Not a good bedside manner (virtually silent!) and he scanned FOR AGES. In doing so he had a good look at the heart and has now found a small VSD (hole)! I now have to see a fetal cardiologist in 2 weeks - I know its good that they are finding these things but I just wish I could be in blissful ignorance for a bit (well, maybe not!).

My consultant said its not a very big hole and these things often close themselves. It wasn't visible (or wasnt there) at 20 weeks when I had the last cardiac scan (lost my last baby to congenital heart disease so they always planned a cardiac scan anyway).

Other stuff - I had the steroids last Friday and Saturday, and had the amnio at 32 weeks on Monday also. I got the preliminary results yesterday evening and there is no evidence of the 3 trisotomies - Downs, Edwards and Pataus. They have also confirmed its a girl and that there are no anomalies on the sex chromosomes (so no Turners). I am obviously very reassured by that but still worried that the IUGR combined with VSD may be caused by some underlying problem. Dont think that fear will go away!

Anyway - thats all for now for me.

Also wanted to send my love to Gen. <<<<<hugs>>>>> Thinking of you at this very tough time.

hs xxxx

Sparklies Thu 24-Mar-11 14:29:32

Good and bad news then! Great news that there is no sign of the main trisomies - especially with the tiny VSD that might have been a concern. Hopefully the VSD will close over - your consultant is right - from what I've heard from others they often do.

Sorry to hear about the growth slowing and possible early delivery

Hang in there - obviously the full karotype will give a better picture and I hope that comes through soon and brings you further relief!

hsmom Mon 28-Mar-11 14:41:08

Hello ladies - I could use some of your fabulous mumsnet insight again following todays scan.

No measurements today - just dopplers and fluid. 33 weeks + 0 (cant beleive I have actually got this far!).
Dopplers 'normal' and deepest pool of amniotic fluid was 4.5 com which he said was sufficient.

BUT, he also said there is an elevated V max in the Middle cerebral artery in baby's brain (measuring 69.7 cm/s vs 56.5 last time this was measured). He couldnt really say (or I couldnt ask the right sort of questions) to establish what this means or could mean.
Any thoughts?
He has also refered me for another scan at local hospital on Friday as he didn't want me to go a full 9 days to next scan (ny next appt at fetal med is wednesday 6th). Waiting for them to call with that.

Hope all is well with you ladies
hs xx

WillbeanChariot Tue 29-Mar-11 10:29:29

Hello hsmom- I haven't any advice on your recent scan I'm afraid, just wanted to check in and say hello, and it is so great you have got to 33 weeks. I hope all is well on Friday, it all sounds a little vague but it must be good that you are being so closely monitored. All the best.

hsmom Thu 07-Apr-11 13:16:39

Hi. I wanted to post an update on here for anyone who might have been/be in the same position.
I had my 34 week growth scan yesterday (at 34+2).
All dopplers fine and baby put on what feels like LOADS of weight to me- over 1lb in 2 weeks! Its still less gain than average babies at this stage but now she is measuring 3lb 12oz... they were talking about short times in transitional care.... days or weeks, not months in NICU. Its such a releif.
I also got final karyotype results from the amnio. All apparenmtly normal.
At last I feel I can imagine having a baby.

Next scan is cardiac scan on tuesday (for small VSD discovered at 32 weeks), then 36 wk growth on 20th April.

Thanks and best wishes to all of you who have been following my journey over the last 3 months or more - Having your moral support and advice has been invaluable.
I will continue to post mini updates on this thread, and hope that the last few weeks are boring!

sh77 Thu 07-Apr-11 14:11:25

Was thinking of you yesterday. You truly have a miracle baby. Each post has brought good news. Can't believe you are 34 weeks already! Just think about getting to 37 weeks - not long!

hsmom Thu 07-Apr-11 14:17:34

Thanks sh77!
How are you doing and how's your fab DS?
Is your section scar on the mend?
I have been told I will have a C section, but its almost 8 years since the last one - any advice or tips? I read somewhere about taking arnica but wasnt sure and havent got around to asking the mw's.

sh77 Thu 07-Apr-11 14:27:51

He is doing great and feeds like a hungry monster all the time.
My c-sec was a fab experience. I had practically no pain, did not need painkillers when i came home, and scar has healed beautifully - almost non-visible. The main thing i liked about the cs was hat it was very controlled and a neonatologist was on hand straight after. ds had cord wrapped around his neck 3 times - quite scary to think what could have happened with a natural delivery.

ok tips for c-sec:
get big knickers - i got 5 for 2.50 from primark. mw might put mesh knickers on you when she put the pad on. i made mistake of not putting more supportive knickers on at this point and bled everywhere when i walked.
arnica - from boots - dose 30c. i took these with my painkillers in hospital. had no bruising or tenderness.
tea tree oil - wipe scar to prevent infection once dressing comes off.
don't be surprised if you see huge clots in pad - likely to be because you haven't moved around much so blood has pooled.
also, don't be surprised how quickly catheter bag fills up - check regularly and get mw to empty.
canula in hand might be in for around 24 hours and when you have done 2 big wees.
i was walking within 4 hours - mw encouraged movement. it made me vomit though.
if i can think of anything else, will let you know.

Sparklies Thu 07-Apr-11 14:47:06

Oh wow, what great news!! So glad to hear all is looking well and the amnio came back great!

sh77 has some great tips for c-section. Must get myself some arnica in fact before I forget! Who knows if it works or not, but no harm in trying!

So true about the catheter bag. After my TAC operation (getting my stitch fitted - similar to a c-section) my catheter was full during the night and I was in complete agony and thought something was horrendously wrong. It took them a while to spot it was just my bag..

hsmom Fri 08-Apr-11 14:35:57

Good afternoon. Just back from an antenatal at the local general hospital.
The staff are marvellous and lovely :-)
My local consult now thinks I might even go past 38!!!
frequency of seeing them seems to be ramping up a bit. Cardiac scan on Tues, then a dopplers next Fri. Growth on wed 20th, at 36+2, and then a dopplers and antenatal at 37+1 to book a CS. With all the bank holidays, I am just so pleased they are fitting me in so much...
Also had FAB mw saying they would rather give me 20 checks if I am worried about movement or anything at all, than have me silently fretting at home.

Sh77 - thanks for fab advice. I am off to Boots shortly to get the arnica and a new bottle of tea tree oil. I assume you didn't take any before the operation.
You mention 'supportive' big pants.... The cheap ones I already bought are not really supportive at all. Did you get special 'tummy control' type ones?

Sparklies - how are you doing yourself? >35 now..... what have they said to you about delivery?

WiiUnfit Fri 08-Apr-11 17:35:12

Hi hsmom, just wanted to say thank you for sharing your experience. It has given me a lot of hope! I'm currently 28+4 & after my growth scan on Wednesday it looks like growth is slowing down (due my my high bp issues I think). My Consultant is "going to try and get me to 34 weeks", so worried about baby not growing & having the baby early - I'm guessing they will opt for c-section?

I also have another growth scan on the 20th April (when I will be 30+2) as well as a scan to check the blood flow. Please can someone enlighten me what the latter involves? I should have asked me Consultant on Wednesday but it was all a bit much to take in. Just feeling a bit like I'm somehow to blame.

Millymolliemandy Sat 09-Apr-11 08:05:25

Hi WiiUnfit, I have been having weekly growth scans and blood flow dopplers since 24 weeks for growth problems with my babe and am currently 29 + 6 + counting!

The blood flow dopplers are very much like a scan, they use ultrasound to check the flow to and from the placenta, in my case this usually involves the ultrasound being pushed in to the sides of my tummy, but this is probably more down to the position of the babe and placenta. Basically it just feels like having a normal scan.

My problems seem to be down to placental insufficiency rather than BP, but I guess the procedure will be the same.

Really hope it all goes well for you, we are going from week to week hoping things stay the same with the placenta, we had steroid injections at 27 weeks - it really is a rollercoaster. Happy to be of any help answering any questions I can, lots of others on this and other threads though who are probably more knowledgeable and further down the line than me.

Millymolliemandy Sat 09-Apr-11 08:07:03

p.s hsmom, sounds like things are going in the right direction for you, which is fab news. We are 30 weeks tomorrow and it feels like a major milestone we never thought we'd reach.

WiiUnfit Sat 09-Apr-11 09:40:10

Thank you Milly, my placenta is anterior so it'll probably be in the side for me too I'm guessing then.

If you don't mind me asking, why did you have steroids at 27wks? I'm guessing this is something they're going to want to do with me at some point to help baby mature but I thought they administered them before delivery? I'm going to have to start writing all of my questions down, usually when I get to see my Consultant he says "do you have any questions?" and I sort of go "ermmm... nope" because I can't remember what I wanted to ask! blush

Congratulations on you & hsmom getting to 30 weeks, great milestone to hit! Everyday I'm sat here like "okay, 28+4 today, half way to 29 weeks... 28+5 today, nearly 29 weeks..." just counting every day as a major milestone, as my Consultant said "the best incubator in the world is your womb!"

Sparklies Sat 09-Apr-11 12:49:35

hsmom - Doing great, thanks! I had a lot of contractions around 33-34 weeks, but they've since disappeared. I have a feeling I may even hit my ELCS date of 38+2 but we shall see! I'm 35+4 today - I had DC2 at 35+5 and she had apgars of 10/10 and came home with me with no SCBU time so I'm feeling very happy

They're really looking after you well. That's amazing they're suggesting 38 weeks after all you have been through - so glad things are looking so positive.

Millymolliemandy Sat 09-Apr-11 13:21:36

Hi WiiUnfit, I think steroids are given if they think delivery is fairly imminent, the consultant said the benefits to the baby last 6 - 8 weeks though, and are principally in maturing the lungs. From my googling it seems that prem babies who have been given steroids are also less at risk of other associated complications, and generally have a better chance.

The injections themselves were given 24 hours apart (I believe they can be given 12 hours apart if delivery is super imminent) and were fine, a little like a bee sting after the needle came out and my boobs got huge a few days after which may or may not have been related (they have since deflated!).

I agree that it feels so strange to be ticking off the days and weeks, I keep doing silly things like buying pregnacy vitamins and thinking ooh if I reach the end of the pack I'll make 32 weeks and that will be amazing! We're currently holding out for Easter as the next major milestone. Have been feeling the baby move loads in the last few days and understand (and hope) that to be a good sign, but we'll have to wait and see at the next scan on Tuesday. I'll be thinking of you on 20th April when hopefully things will all be going in the right direction.

WiiUnfit Sun 10-Apr-11 10:20:59

Ah right thanks, I'd heard of the using them for helping to mature the lungs. I'm afraid to google if I'm honest. However, having said that I'm sat here watching last Monday's One Born - scaring myself senseless... hmm

I keep forgetting to take my pregnancy vitamins! blush

29 weeks tomorrow! Baby is still moving lots over here too, feeling loads of kicks, punchs and movements even with my anterior placenta!

Hoping your scan on Tuesday goes well, please let us know & thank you, hopefully they will!

hsmom Mon 11-Apr-11 17:38:31

hello ladies!
WiiUnfit - sorry I have been MIA- we are moving house on wednesday (utter madness in terms of timing but couldn't really afford to turn the offer down!) and I have been either packing or cleaning all weekend and today. shattered now.
Milly was spot on with the blood flow scans or 'dopplers'. They tend to check for a number of things - the uterine artery and umbilical arteries (which are the ones to and from the placenta to you and to baby). in my case they also checked the ductus venosus (sp! a small vessel between baby's liver and baby's heart that closes soon after birth), and also the blood flows in baby's brain (MCA - mid cerebellum artery, i think). The scanner has a different setting that shows the blood flows as red and blue colours and amplifies the sounds. They then kind of 'freeze frame' them and do some measurements. They also tend to measure fluid on these scans either at 4 points around the baby to create an index, or at the 'deepest pool'.
As for the steroids - I had them too for lung development - but I waited until 31+4-5. I am not naturally at risk of prem labour, but I had them because i had amnio at 32. Obviously that has a slight risk which at 32 is prem labour, as opposed to miscarriage. A bee sting is a perfect description! After about 30 mins it was ok. For the timing of when to have it, I asked my consultant and did some research - I also asked some people (on here!) whose experience pointed to the steroids being most effective if they were within a week or so of delivery so I didn't want to have them for no reason/risk as apparently you can only have them once. My consultant was fine with my suggestion. Hope that helps a bit and good luck for making it to 29 today :-) Yayyyyy! Thats so reassuring for viability!!!!

Sparklies - what great news on your timing. I am 35 weeks today so you are 6 days ahead! They haven't booked my ELCS date yet but I anticipate that at 38+1 which will be the day after May BH (not sure I will make it that far but it seems somehow within reach now)

As for me, i have the cardiac scan and dopplers tomorrow morning, then another dopplers on Friday.

Take care all, hs xxxx

WiiUnfit Tue 12-Apr-11 10:47:04

Hi hsmom, congratulations on the move! It doesn't rain but it pours & all that...

Thank you for the info! Keeping all my fingers & toes crossed for good news. At my last growth scan they said the fluid level was over to 50th percentile so that's good! 29+1 today & still hanging on! My blood pressure is still flying from low to high & vice versa, not fun.

I don't know why I thought you were 30 weeks confused I think I misunderstood Milly's comment - "we are 30 weeks tomorrow" [pgbrainemoticon]

How did your cardiac scan & dopplers go? Hoping you meet your target of May BH! grin

reallygrumpy Tue 12-Apr-11 16:17:07

Hi all, I was wondering if you could give me some advice. I'm 24+3 and my 20 week scan was fine apart from v short femur measurement (outside th normal range). My Down's risk is 1:2100. I read that short femurs can be an early indication of poor growth so I've booked a private scan for next week when I'll be nearly 26 weeks. Is there anything in particular I should ask them to look at during the scan? I'm v anxious about this pregnancy because it's taken me a long time to get pregnant, I had a mmc last year and a horrible first trimester with bleeding on and off and lots of trips to the EPU.

sh77 Tue 12-Apr-11 17:27:48

hi hs - wow a lot on your plate! make sure you are getting lots of rest. re arnica - took it 2nd day with painkilers. some mothers start on the day bfeore c-sec.

re big pants - i mean the massive granny pants that cover your tummy. no need for anything more supportive.

reallygrumpy - sorry you are facing this anxiety. poor growth would normally show in small tummy measurements and larger head measurements as the nutrition goes to the brain to protect it. i don't think short femur is a sign if iugr. my baby had tiny head measurements and all else was normal. i was really worried but he is a very alert and normal 5 week old.

hsmom Wed 13-Apr-11 09:10:19

Hi reallygrumpy. I dont know too much about femurs being short in isolation - my baby was small all over and recently the head and abdominal circ have been a little ahead, but in my last scan the femurs appeared to be catching up a bit (either that or she was laying in a position that allowed a really good measurement).
I know that sleepwhenidie posted on this thread above (on 14 march) about her DS having small femurs and all her pgs being the same but now all are healthy happy DC's! Take a look - hope it reassures a little.

AFM - not the best news yesterday. Dopplers fine as always, but the cardioligist found not only one 'medium to large VSD' but also a few more smaller ones which he described as 'like a tea bag'. More worrying however was a narrowing of the aorta which means I will have to deliver at BWH so its close to the childrens hospital in case surgery is required. I am a bit knocked for six. I really thought we were over the worst. feel like crawling in a hole and not coming out until its all over. Not coping too well today! Hey ho. Got shed-loads of unpacking etc so will go and get on.
Cherrio for now, hs xx

hsmom Wed 13-Apr-11 09:13:59

ooh and sh77 - thanks for advice re-pants, and arnica! Will defo get stocked up. Need some new nighties too for hosp, so will prob go at the weekend.

Sparklies Wed 13-Apr-11 12:37:16

reallygrumpy - short femurs don't usually tend to mean a whole lot. All three of mine have had them. My first two were born at 95th percentile for size (no idea about this one yet!) They're not even really considered as a soft marker for Down Syndrome as it's so common to have them.

hsmom - Oh no, I am so sorry to hear about the VSDs Last thing you needed on top of everything else, what a stress. Bugger!

Millymolliemandy Wed 13-Apr-11 13:26:33

Hi reallygrumpy, another one with short femurs here - in fact I raised this with my consultant yesterday - we've had CVS, (I think they can be a soft marker for downs) and he said in our case these are most likely to be because of the IUGR. I am trying not to worry about this on top of everything else.

Hsmom, sorry to hear about your new worry, will be thinking of you.

We had ascan yesterday an dopplers etc all the same as last week, although growth still minimal and baby very small, they are now talking in terms of a 33 week delivery which is great (currently at 30 + 4), well I guess great in the context of us thinking 28 weeks was a milestone!

Also going to go arnica shopping, does anyone have any idea about strength tablets?

WiiUnfit Mon 18-Apr-11 22:59:32

Hi all,

hsmom, so sorry to hear your news, as if you need anything else to be worrying about! Thinking of you & baby. Hope the move went / is going well?

Well, 30 weeks today & hopefully still going strong?! hmm Growth scan, doppler & Consultant on Wednesday so hoping to find out their plan of action. Saw my Midwife today for my twice-weekly bp check, bp is holding steady in 'normal' levels and protein was 1+ which is normal for me.

FH was measuring 29 weeks but as we all know, measurements can be quite crude. Got myself rather excited and optimistic that baby's growth may have miraculously caught up though, guess we'll find out Wednesday!

On a lighter note, I had a lovely card from my colleagues (currently signed off because of high bp) which cheered me up lots!

Milly, I too will be going arnica shopping if they mention c-section on Wednesday so will be watching intently for advice re dosage.

WiiUnfit Thu 21-Apr-11 15:28:14

Hi ladies,

Thought I would pop in & update you all, went for my growth scan & doppler yesterday at 30+2, baby's growth in terms of abdominal circumference has caught up & then some!? HC is normal (as it was), AC is actually above where it should be now confused and FL is still measuring a couple of weeks behind but the Consultant was v.happy & is now going to see me at 34 weeks where we will "take things one step at a time" Estimated fetal weight is now 1.65kg shock

Hope you're all doing well.

sh77 Wed 27-Apr-11 14:20:57

hi hsmom - any update? hope you and baby are well.

sparklies - how are you - not long now! hope you get fab treatment at the c & w. let me know how it goes.


hsmom Wed 27-Apr-11 17:50:29

Hi all, just a quick one- typing from phone as still no Internet at new house until may 18 th. Bloody BT.
Last weeks final growth scan at 36 estimated weight at 4lb 10oz so that's quite respectable! I got date for c sec of may 3rd ( so next tues). Still major concern is for heart issues, particularly the narrowing of aorta (they seem less concerned about VSD's). They will take her away after birth to scan.
Starting to feel really fearful that there is something more fundamentally wrong, and that fear seems to be building as DDay approaches.
Will post via phone from hospital if I can. May be tail end of next week though.
Take care all, hsxx

moregranny Wed 27-Apr-11 18:44:53

My thoughts are with you, hoping things are not as bad as feared, x

sh77 Wed 27-Apr-11 22:24:09

Will def be thinking of you and your baby. I can understand the anxiety will get stronger as you get closer due to not knowing. But always remember you have a fighter in her. Your thread will be one that I remember of true hope.

Did you get everything for your hospital bag?

WiiUnfit Thu 28-Apr-11 11:08:43

Best of luck hsmom, thinking of you & hoping things won't be as bad as they are fearing. Just remember you're in the best place possible & your LO is a little fighter.x

Hi hsmom, have been thinking of you, please try not to get into a state, your little one is clearly a fighter. You are nearly there now, try and focus on getting both of you through the birth and then worry about everything else later. Keep us posted. x

hsmom Tue 03-May-11 20:02:13

Hi all- quickest of updates. My daughter was born today by c sec at 12.04.
She weighed just 4lbs, so way off what the scan had predicted (4lb 10 2 weeks ago!).
She is doing fine but is in neonatal as is on drip to keep the ductus open to see if the aorta narrowing is really a problem. We are waiting for the cardiac scan - they might do it tonight or tomorrow. If she needs surgery they will want to get her to 2.5kg which might take a month or so.
Otherwise she looks just fine. I tried feeding her and she tried to suckle.
Will update when I know more,
Hs xxx

Eviepoo Tue 03-May-11 20:15:35

Hello hsmum I am so glad to hear that your wee girl was born and getting the required care. I hope she grows stronger every minute. Lots of love and thoughts with you.

sh77 Wed 04-May-11 13:24:38

Oh this is amazing news! Was thinking of you yesterday and hoping for a happy update. So glad she made a safe entrance into the world. Do keep us updated x

hsmom congratulations, that is lovely news! DS2 was below his predicted weight too, about the same estimate and actual as your DD. Good luck for the scan, I hope everything is ok, keep us posted and enjoy her! xxx

WiiUnfit Thu 05-May-11 20:46:45

Congratulations hsmom, hoping your LO goes from strength to strength! smile

sh77 Mon 09-May-11 14:22:07

Hope baby is getting stronger and that your recovery is straightforward. How are you?

hsmom Thu 19-May-11 13:24:29

hello everyone.
Firstly - thanks so much for all of your lovely wishes, and apologies for taking so long to post another update; we eventually got broadband just yesterday!
As for me and my lovely daughter - we are doing fine. We have had nothing but good news since she was born.
After being put in neonatal intensive care and scanned repeatedly, they found a small VSD (not big enough to need surgery), and the coarctation of the aorta wasn't there in the end, so we moved to low dependancy SCBU to establish feeding and we were allowed home after just 6 days! What a result. DD is doing well - she regained her birth weight after 10 days and has gained a further 5oz in the last week. She is now 17 days old and doing really well. Still very small of course, but seemingly fine. My community midwife is fab, and has told me in no uncertain terms I need to start treating her like a normal baby because thats what she is!!
So - after this enormously difficult roller-coaster over the past 6 months, it seems our problems are starting to fade. My fetal medicine consultant says we might never know why she was so little as the placenta and cord looks normal and healthy at delivery. No real clues but I am not going to sweat it!
I hope that our little story gives hope to anyone who is now going through what we have been through.
Good luck to everyone who may come across this thread in a similar situation. Feel free to DM me - i know how amazingly supportive this means of communication is.
With love and huge thanks again,
hsmom and gorgeous, tiny DD xxxx

sh77 Thu 19-May-11 17:36:15

just sent you a pm before reading this. i am so pleased for you and dd!! a truly amazing story. miracle baby.x

WiiUnfit Thu 19-May-11 22:44:07

Wow, great news hsmom, I'm so pleased for you! You deserve some good luck!!! What an amazing little hero you have! smile Wishing you all the best! x

clabsyqueen Sun 22-May-11 18:10:31

Just wanted to say thank you for posting this thread, it has given me some comfort in the last few days. I am 25 weeks and our LO has this week just been diagnosed with asymetrical IUGR due to placental insufficiency. Weekly check ups and kick count madness for me from now on! Hearing that things can go from bad to better is hugely comforting and without people like you posting their stories I would never know them. Best of luck for you and DD. I am holding my breath til my doppler scan on Wednesday at UCH. Wish us luck!

hsmom Thu 26-May-11 12:06:29

Very best of luck, clabsyqueen!
It may be a rocky road ahead and I wish you all the best and the comfort to know that good things can and do happen! My gorgeous DD is 3 weeks and 2 days now, and is thriving. She broke the 2kilo mark when she was weighed on Sunday! She is very noisy and hungry. Its a joy (even at 3am!).
If in doubt at all or you ever want a second opinion (and as you are in/close to london), I would recommend going to see prof Nicolaides at the fetal medicine centre. He really was my saviour - even though his prognosis wasn't great at the start, he was absolutely correct at 25 weeks when he told me there was no reason this pregnancy couldn't progress to term. While the medical team who looked after me in Birmingham were superb, they were never as lucid as the Prof, and his diagnosis at that point was hugely influential on maintaining a positive mental attitude and simply getting through the days and weeks. He's such a straight talker (!sometimes a bit blunt!)and the one of the very best in the world at this stuff.
If you ever want to DM me - feel free - and stay positive!
love hs xx

newmummy2014 Fri 21-Feb-14 12:06:15

hi I really need some reassurance I am 33 weeks pregnant with igur baby and chromosome's I am so worried I am going to lose my baby by miscarriage or still birth

CinnabarRed Fri 21-Feb-14 12:26:37

newmummy2014 - I have no expertise in this area, but didn't want to leave your post unanswered.

You won't get many replies from posting at the end of a very old thread. People just won't notice. Please do consider starting your own thread (there's a link called 'Start new thread in this topic' immediately above this thread) and you will get many more replies.

Very best wishes to you and your baby.

newmummy2014 Fri 21-Feb-14 12:32:13

ok sorry bout that im new to this but thankyou for your comment

CinnabarRed Fri 21-Feb-14 13:21:19

Good luck with everything.

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