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Graduated Elderberries

(1000 Posts)
HazleNutt Mon 27-Jan-14 10:08:05

It's time to move to Post-Natal clubs.

BlearyeyedLol Mon 27-Jan-14 11:32:01

Oh hello!!! How grown up of us grin

Cavort Mon 27-Jan-14 11:48:07

Hmmm, I'm not sure I like it in here? It requires me acknowledging that I now have a baby and all the ensuing responsibilities, which I don't generally like to do. Most of the time in my brain I am still 23, single and childless. wink

Tallyra Mon 27-Jan-14 12:47:23

Great new thread! I'll be keeping an eye from the helicopter!

HazleNutt Mon 27-Jan-14 12:57:28

cavort as long as you remember you have a baby when at the supermarket. Or airport.

janey1234 Mon 27-Jan-14 13:32:54

My old boss left her baby in a car seat underneath a table in the m&s cafe... blush

Not sure I like it here either, feels far too grown up. Plus will miss hearing about pregnancy niggles. But I know it's time....

HazleNutt Mon 27-Jan-14 14:00:57

We can move back to ante-natal? But pregnant berries seemed to keep hanging on their own thread.

Our neighbour (from when I was a kid) took the car to the supermarket in the next town. He usually takes the bus. Came out, saw that his bus was coming, how lucky, jumped on. Got home and didn't realise anything was missing, until the wife asked where the kids were. Yes, still waiting in the car.

janey1234 Mon 27-Jan-14 14:25:09

No no not at all, just can't believe we've moved on from both conception and ante natal already.... Time flies.

janey1234 Mon 27-Jan-14 14:25:27

And blush re your neighbour!!

Alexandra6 Mon 27-Jan-14 14:59:26

That story's brilliant, makes me worry about my DH having S on his own for the first time this wkend! Although he's staying in the house so can't leave her anywhere! grin

I thought we weren't moving to this thread until our kids were at uni! We're def all in denial wink

Barrel of laughs over here today - we've had tummy cramps, screaming, tears and a lot of vom. And no lunch yet for me. However when S isn't suffering, she is giving me lovely little smiles and baby chat, just to keep me going!

janey1234 Mon 27-Jan-14 15:05:26

What are you up to this weekend Alex?

Hilarious, drove past yours earlier and my dad wanted to pop by I think. I pointed out that S was far too little to receive unexpected guests!

HazleNutt Mon 27-Jan-14 15:17:38

alex so you think it's dairy?

About DH's, mine is generally quite useful and has not lost the baby yet. But one evening I get home, feed baby some solids, grab the Tommee sippy cup and..pour water all over the place. DH says that oh yes, I not figure out how to put the valve in. The man is an aircraft engineer. confused

Alexandra6 Mon 27-Jan-14 15:32:06

Ah you should have stopped by, all I need is a text with a little bit of notice so I can put my boobs away grin

This wkend I'm getting my hair done on Sat so that's when DH has S, then we're off to my mum's so my stepdad can take baby pics (as he's a photographer) and then meeting a couple of friends for Sunday lunch with DH. So he only has S for a few hours on his own.

hazle it does seem like a real coincidence I had dairy again yesterday and her tummy/reflux has been playing up lots today. DH points out maybe we should build up her tolerance though to avoid probs later. Plus so hard to avoid dairy especially when eating out. Maybe I should keep trying to eat it this week and if she has a really rough week, I'll know it's more likely to be the dairy rather than coincidence, what do you think?

janey1234 Mon 27-Jan-14 15:41:46

Sounds like a good plan to me. It could be coincidence - all babies have bad days - and would be awful to have to cut out dairy if it were. Having said that if it's not coincidence you'll soon find out! Fingers crossed for you...

DP back from skiing. Weirdly jealous of all his boozing... They had one bottle of wine for 720 euro - got to love work expenses.

MotherOfCleo Mon 27-Jan-14 16:12:39

ahh I found you smile

Quodlibet Mon 27-Jan-14 17:46:22

Alex we have grumpy days over here too - got one on the go right now in fact. I think it must be pretty hard work being 6 weeks old. Does boob not solve most problems in your house (genuinely curious)? It does over here, if sometimes very temporarily (she'll eat for 2 mins, fall asleep then wake up minutes later just as grumpy). It does of course create its own problem which is that I end up feeling like I've been knawed on all day.

I am shock at all these people forgetting their babies. I read a really distressing article once about the frequency in the US of babies dying in hot cars because their parents forget and leave them in their carseats...it did explain how natural it is (scarily) to just zone out and go into autopilot, and forget them.

Bunnygirlie Mon 27-Jan-14 18:43:45

janey cavort quod hazle mother

I just wanted to pop into this scary place and say thanks so much for your best wishes and it was very sweet that some of you popped into berry HQ and the copter to say congrats smile

flowers Hope you and your berry babies are doing well!!!

janey1234 Mon 27-Jan-14 18:57:32

Ah thanks bunny. Can't tell you how genuinely happy we all are for you. The next 10 weeks will drag by (sorry) but then we found that the rest of pregnancy will fly and you'll have a seven month old baby before you know it. blush

Just hoping pip gets her BFP soon too, I remember we all started out together and am desperate for things to work out for us all...

janey1234 Tue 28-Jan-14 07:48:35

Oh and hazle - think you asked about sleep once in their own rooms? It may well be coincidence but after the first few tough nights it has been much better. Last night for example he slept 7.30-5.30 solid, had a quick feed, and went back to sleep until 7.30am. That's in comparison to bring up on average 3 times a night before that. I do have the advantage of being able to fill him full of milk during the day though which I know you can't hmm but hopefully V's sleep might improve too?

MotherOfCleo Tue 28-Jan-14 08:02:38

Nice to see you bunny, I really am thrilled for you. I remember a few months where I honestly thought it was going to be your bfp month. So glad you got their in the end. I have everything crossed for you for the rest of your pregnancy!

Well we are on night 2 of having a sleeping baby, he actually slept 10-4 last night then 4.20-7, is it bad that I like him so much more when he sleeps wink he has also fallen back to sleep now....I'm torn between having another hours sleep or having a shower blush

In other news grin my cousin's missus had their baby yesterday, little girl called Lola grin she was 10 days late so I thought it would be a boy. She is super super cute though! A really beautiful baby.

HazleNutt Tue 28-Jan-14 08:42:09

let's see then. Luckily he does eat quite a bit during the day now, so should not be starving. Well, usually eats - as I said, on Sunday he pretty much refused all solids, but yesterday ate like a dream, just shove it it.

Why were the first nights tough, he was not happy about the new room or did you try to sleep train?

janey1234 Tue 28-Jan-14 09:39:12

Haven't tried sleep training, no. He just was fascinated by being somewhere new at first so wouldn't sleep... Then didn't want to be on his own so wouldn't sleep... So the first couple of nights involved quite a lot of sitting next to his cot and holding his hand and stroking his nose to get him to relax and get to sleep. It didn't take too long though - I think just two or three nights of sitting by him to get him to sleep.

Alexandra6 Tue 28-Jan-14 09:48:31

Really hope S can get used to it that quickly! Your fresh eyes are going to make my big black bags look worse when we meet up later! wink I have the fear a bit as S is in a funny mood again today (by 'funny', I mean awful, but funny sounds nicer!) so I'm hoping she'll be in a better mood to be a lady who lunches later!

janey1234 Tue 28-Jan-14 09:53:10

Don't worry if she's still in a funny mood - there will be three of us that can take it in turns to hug her (newborn hugs, yay!) and M and our friend's baby, F, have been in funny moods often enough!

I've been trying to move Miles' routine back just half an hour, so he wakes 7.30 and goes to bed 7.30pm, rather than 7-7. It's such a struggle! Despite getting up half an hour earlier he's whacked by his usual nap times. Yesterday he was quite moany too, wondering if there's another tooth on it's way? What comes after the bottom front two, does anyone know?

Just had a look in the berry helicopter and it made me broody blush Can it be sept so I can start ttc again please?!

janey1234 Tue 28-Jan-14 09:54:06

Oh and I don't have fresh eyes - there weeks of much better sleep hasn't yet made up for the previous two months of hell broken sleep....

HazleNutt Tue 28-Jan-14 10:05:05

except for the non-drinking issue, you can start in the summer - nobody would know if you're a month or 2 pregnant wink

Does M usually also have trouble sleeping when you're not at home? V has been great so far, does not mind the strange bed if we have spent nights in hotels, with friends, with both sets of grandparents etc.

janey1234 Tue 28-Jan-14 10:24:36

He's not as good when we've been away... Him and I went away whilst DP was skiing and he was ok, but not great. He was waking twice a night, rather than the once he wakes at home. Not disturbed enough to put me off going away though!

janey1234 Tue 28-Jan-14 10:26:32

Oh and I know... But want to be able to drink at my wedding? Plus don't you show more quickly the second time around?
I think I should start trying in August. Hopefully it won't take too long, but I will be nearly 40 so who knows....

I think you're going to be the first to try for #2 though hazle?

HazleNutt Tue 28-Jan-14 11:25:17

We would like to, but I haven't got my AF back, so it's not likely anything will happen. V still refuses to drink more than a couple of oz milk from any bottle or cup (won't take formula either) , so I don't think I can stop breastfeeding any time soon.

He likes his water and will drink that from both sippy and bottle. But I swear that he actually closely examines the bottles when we give them to him, to see if it's milk or water. That kid knows what he wants.

Yes I have also heard you show sooner, but should still be fine for the first couple of months.

Cavort Tue 28-Jan-14 12:33:11

Annoyingly still no sign of AF here yet, despite BFN I still want it to turn up ASAP. Phone app says it was due yesterday so not quite panicking yet.

And as much as it pains me to admit it, I do feel some pangs of broodiness now. I think it's because E is at a super-cute age now and I am really enjoying playing with her and making her laugh. Any potential TTC is off the cards until we've moved house though, and based on the fact we can't find any houses we even want to view then I think there's a fair chance of the menopause turning up before we manage to move.

Hazle I have a very good eater who takes lots of solids and also BF's during the day and it has made zero difference to her crap sleeping. Admittedly she does only wake once or twice per night, which is fine, but with one of those wake ups usually being 1-2 hours it just seems so much worse.

HazleNutt Tue 28-Jan-14 13:35:07

so cav might be our first with DC2 grin

You're buying or renting?

Place marking

Cavort Tue 28-Jan-14 14:36:10

We're hoping to buy our first house together Hazle. DH moved in with me after we met so we haven't bought anywhere together yet. I think he's fed up of me refering to him as my lodger. grin

HazleNutt Tue 28-Jan-14 14:46:48

Ah yes, buying is different. Some years ago, in the spring, we were thinking that in principle, in a couple of years or so, would be nice to have a house. But not any time soon, busy with wedding, DH starting his own company etc. I was just casually browsing the real estate sites - to see what's there, price ranges etc, no intention of even seeing anything any time soon.

Saw the house. Said to DH that this is ours. Went to see it - first house we saw (and pretty much the only one, checked out another just because it was in the same village). Bought the house. Was the same time as our wedding, so were signing and faxing last mortgage papers from our honeymoon. grin
Still love the house though, so I agree that you have to find the one.

BraveLilBear Tue 28-Jan-14 16:11:41

Afternoon all!

Anyone else finding the night disturbances harder now than way back at the beginning?

H isn't waking up anywhere near as much as he used to - averaging twice a night - but since New Year I've been finding it harder and harder to deal with. I'm so run down that I'm aching all over and feel scratchy-eye tired pretty much all the time.

Just trying to work out if this is a 'thing' or not. Heading to the docs tomorrow to no doubt be greeted with eyerolls and 'you have a 6 month old, what did you expect? ' but we'll see.

Upside, my mum's shouted me an aroma massage this Saturday so that'll be lush smile

Talk of ttcing again is quite exciting smile I think AFs tend to return once baby is night weaned, which health visitors said usually happens around 8-9 months when baby is on 3 proper meals a day... hopefully as V ups his day intakes (and overcomes his pickiness!) AF might make an appearance?

HazleNutt Tue 28-Jan-14 16:25:22

brave actually no, I find it easier to deal with, kind of used to all the wakings. So it might indeed be a thing.
Are you also cold all the time and maybe gaining weight? Could be thyroid then. Or iron deficiency would also make you tired.

BraveLilBear Tue 28-Jan-14 16:55:03

Did think about thyroid but have been losing weight - easily back to pre-preg weight.

Could be anaemic I guess tho didn't lose a lot of blood during birth, only had 2 weeks of lochia and no AF so don't know how I'd have become so.

Will see if I get help or eyerolls in the morning. The best irony is that the appt is at 9. It's a 35min walk. Good job I love a challenge! smile

Cavort Tue 28-Jan-14 17:08:12

Hazle wow, I get stressed just thinking about organising a wedding and buying a house at the same time! But yes, if you spot 'the one' then you just have to go for it. I am just sceptical of finding 'the one' for us in our likely price range I need about a million to spend then I can find tons of houses I like. I think we will have to make some compromises, but moving house is such a PITA so I want to make sure when we do move it is to somewhere we will be happy to live for several years. Schools are also a big factor as we won't know until closer to the time whether we can afford an Independent school so we need to live in the catchment for a decent state school just in case, which narrows our potential search areas quite substantially.

Thinking about it makes my brain hurt so I keep burying my head back in the sand.

janey1234 Tue 28-Jan-14 17:16:50

You're so right to be thinking about schools cavort. A really good friend of mine and Alex is having a nightmare trying to move now that her daughter has begun school. I need to figure out our chances of getting M into one of the decent schools near us, and if not, where to move to (and when). Also need to decide whether to put his name down for the amazing independent school my nephew goes to. It's just brilliant and on my way to work. Very expensive but worryingly cheaper than full time childcare. blush

janey1234 Tue 28-Jan-14 17:17:49

Oh and saw Alex and S earlier. A is beautiful and behaved like and angel the whole time whilst M got over tired and moaned a lot

janey1234 Tue 28-Jan-14 17:29:26

Damn a and s being next to each other on the keyboard! S was beautiful and behaved like an angel. Alex looked rough and played up the whole time, obv wink

I did wonder why you were sounding so appreciative of Alex's beauty!!

Alexandra6 Tue 28-Jan-14 18:58:34

grin really making me laugh! I was a total terror and as for beauty - not with these black bags and puke stained clothes grin

Would you really go for private school janey? I told DH I'd rather take them to the Maldives than expensive schools - messed up priorities?! wink The schools thing worries me as primary schools are good in my area but really not so sure about secondary. So I'm burying my head in the sand debating the best time to think about that and plan ahead.

Cavort Tue 28-Jan-14 19:09:35

Alex I was reading the other day that lots of parents these days find it much cheaper to pay a premium on a property in the catchment for an Ofsted Outstanding State School and top up with tuition rather than paying extortionate private school fees.

janey1234 Tue 28-Jan-14 19:59:50

I wouldn't do private instead of holidays, no. But was thinking maybe doing both... Although if we do have two that would be bloody impossible expensive...

Realistically I think state primary, then move or pay for private secondary?

Gosh. That all feels very grown up. Think I need to drink wine, eat haribo and watch CBB to feel more myself.

HazleNutt Tue 28-Jan-14 20:55:31

V will go to our local village primary. I personally don't think the academic level of a primary school is that important (although I believe the school is fine) - more important that he makes friends in the village at that age.

BlearyeyedLol Wed 29-Jan-14 08:57:50

How long does the shit stage last in their room???? L was up every bloody hour wanting feeds, cuddles or whatever she could get. This has been going on for a week now and I'm knackered confused.
All this talk of second babies makes me sadhmm. I am def broody but dh doesn't want another one and at 40 I don't have time to convince him. I guess I should count my blessings!
L will hopefully go to the local catholic school which is one of the best in the country. Only 30 spaces though so there is a lot of competition. Another excellent school - also catholic - about 3 miles away and that will be my second choice. Scary to think of all this!!

Cavort Wed 29-Jan-14 15:58:04

It might not be anything to do with her room Lol, it could just be separation anxiety which apparently develops around 6-8 months. We definitely have some going on here... E keeps bursting into tears when I go out of view. It's lovely to feel wanted but I can't get anything done!

2 days late but AF has finally arrived. I was starting to get a bit worried! So I can feel a celebratory wine coming on tonight, especially in light of this fantastic revelation. Oh, if I must have another wine, it's good for my health dontchaknow. grin What next? Chocolate helps you live past 100? grin grin

Alexandra6 Wed 29-Jan-14 17:02:18

Love that study! Has made me fancy a nice glass of Rioja!

janey1234 Wed 29-Jan-14 17:21:00

M doing the same. Broke his little heart when I went for a pee yesterday...

Loving that article cavort. Hurry on home DP so I can drink wine! wink

BraveLilBear Wed 29-Jan-14 17:46:10

Am dreading the onset of separation anxiety - especially as it's due to hit around the time I go back to work. Eek!

Got some sympathy at docs this morning and blood tests ordered for next week.

Google suggests it might be a vitamin d deficiency. We shall see!

BlearyeyedLol Wed 29-Jan-14 17:55:33

Brave what did you say to manage to get a blood test? I've an appointment tomorrow as I've also been feeling pretty run down not to mention the bloody lack of bf weight loss

BraveLilBear Wed 29-Jan-14 18:13:11

Just that I'm exhausted - more so now than when he was newborn. Worried about coping with return to work this tired etc.

He very quickly suggested a blood test to check thyroid and other bits. If he hadn't I probably would have raised it by saying something like 'I've not felt as bad as this since I was anaemic'.

Good luck - it sucks being a run down mama!

BlearyeyedLol Wed 29-Jan-14 18:33:53

Thanks I've been feeling the same and was putting it down to a 6 month stint of no sleeping- but after reading your post I thought it best to get checked out. Plus I have not been eating any sweets and hardly any alcohol and I somehow managed to put on 2lb last weekangry
Cav once again I think you've struck genius. You obviously use your time much more wisely than me. Googling over candy crush has it's advantages!!

Ooh ooh, I feel shit too, and I've put weight on breastfeeding, does that mean I have to go and let them stable with needles too? sad although the amount of blood tests I had done while I was pregnant (every two bleedin weeks!) did wonders for my needle phobia.

I did kind of wonder if this utterly drained crappy feeling was a breast feeding thing and if I'd feel better as she cut down but she still seems to be feeding quite a lot and I still feel crap. I would quite like my body back now but seeing as she screamed when I tried her with formula, I guess I've got to stick with it.

I meant stab me. Stupid phone.

HazleNutt Wed 29-Jan-14 19:27:51

purple thyroid problems after pregnancy are common, yes go get checked. But ask for T4 and T3 to be tested as well, not just TSH.

BlearyeyedLol Wed 29-Jan-14 20:47:27

What's t4 and t3???? What if the doctor says I don't need a test?????
Is it common in us oldies or in anyone?

Ok thanks, I think I was a bit oblivious to it, just thought 'of course you feel shit, you've got a baby' but when I thought about it she doesn't wake me up enough for me to be feeling as bad as I do.

Sorry to hear of people feeling crappy - hopefully the docs can pinpoint and fix.

Quick q - for those of you with the angelcare monitor, does it only work with a certain type of mattress? Mine is packed in a box somewhere so I cant easily get to it to check

MotherOfCleo Thu 30-Jan-14 00:25:42

Sorry you guys are feeling rubbish, hope the doc can sort you out!!

I'm after some help please - my section scar had healed really well and I've not had a problem with it. But today its been a bit sore on one side, I didnt think anything of it until changing for bed but when I felt it the right end almost looks like a welt, its warmer to the touch than the rest of the scar, is raised up and is red. Any ideas? Should I be worried? Surely it should be ok after 3 months?

Sorry merk we just have a normal baby monitor, I know a few of the others do have the angelcare one though so hopefully they can help.

MotherOfCleo Thu 30-Jan-14 04:32:06

an we are back to being up every 2 an a half hours sad sad sad

janey1234 Thu 30-Jan-14 06:14:30

Merk - mine works fine with a quality pocket sprung mattress, but lol's doesn't... So in short I don't know I'm afraid...

Mother I'm sorry sad Hope you're not too whacked.

M still asleep. 11 hours and counting shock

HazleNutt Thu 30-Jan-14 06:32:44

lol if you have also other symptoms besides tiredness, like feeling cold and gaining weight, there's no reason not to test - it's a very simple blood test.

T3 and T4 are the actual thyroid hormones that should be checked. What happens though that doctors often only test TSH (thyroid stimulating hormone) and declare you fine if that is under 5. First of all, most specialists nowadays recommend TSH under 3. Second, it does not always give an accurate picture - the recommended range is 0,5-5 (or 3,5, as said), but mine needs to be below that for me to feel good and have t3-4 in normal range.

it's common in everybody, not just oldies thyroid.about.com/cs/pregnancy/a/postpartum.htm

HazleNutt Thu 30-Jan-14 08:10:28

mother no personal experiences, but can you go get it checked, just in case? You don't have a fever or any other complaints?

Wish me luck, I have performance assesment at work today, and I also want to ask for more money.

janey1234 Thu 30-Jan-14 08:49:41

Ooh good luck hazle. Gosh, that just gave me the fear about going back to work. I feel a million miles (ha) from my old career driven, ambitious self, and am going to have to get back to the old me at sone point!

Did you find it ok slotting back into work? I don't mean in terms of leaving V, but in terms of, I don't know, really caring about it all again? Feeling motivated, driven - and what I can't imagine being again - competent?!

janey1234 Thu 30-Jan-14 08:56:07

Oh mother I missed your point about your scar! Sorry!

Weirdly my scar is also different on the right to the left. The whole scar is practically invisible now, just a bit pink. But the bit furthest on the right is a bit pinker and wider than the rest. However, that was the part of the scar that had the knots at the end of the dissolvable stitches in it, and i used antibiotic cream on. Basically the knot dug in and was somehow stopping it healing as well as the rest, and I was worried about it getting infected as it got a bit weepy (sorry tmi). As it took longer to heal it doesn't surprise me that it isn't as neat as the rest. But by 3 months on it had definitely stopped playing up.

I would def def get it checked out - not worth putting it off.

It does take a long time for the scar to heal - mine still feels weirdly itchy occasionally - I guess it makes you realise that it was major abdominal surgery after all! Guess that's why you have to wait 12 months before ttc again, to let all the layers they've cut through heal properly.

Let me know how you get on with the docs...

HazleNutt Thu 30-Jan-14 09:07:15

I think it was easier for me, as the maternity leave was so short, so not much had changed. And I was checking my emails during the leave as well. I don't think the brain has suffered too much grin

It's different as I am of course thinking about V all the time. But I'm more driven if anything - have a family to support now.

Alexandra6 Thu 30-Jan-14 10:20:37

I genuinely can't imagine being back at work, my brain is def not as sharp as it used to be (no sarcasm please janey grin ) and I'm sure a large part of that is sleep deprivation. So unless S becomes a great sleeper by 1 year, I'll really struggle! Again I've buried my head in the sand as I've been concentrating on adjusting to being a mum and taking each day at a time but guess I should be thinking about child care options. With my job, they're all working remotely now so, if they can afford to have me back (they rely on clients and this can really go up and down), it could work well going back, maybe part time. However that's a big if, as they may make my role redundant, in which case I'll be looking at trying for a new job which of course would be difficult to find and it would need to make good sense financially once the cost of child care has been taken off. The spanner in the works is that we might bite the bullet and ttc again so a challenging job, a baby/toddler and pregnancy sounds pretty full on!! It isn't a desperate crisis if I'm out of work for longer so we're lucky in that sense but I just don't want to put all the financial pressure on DH for years if I can help it.

Anyway great night janey! Hope your scar is ok mother. S had such a weird day yesterday - barely slept from 8am to midnight?!

Cavort Thu 30-Jan-14 10:46:09

Work? shock <buries head back in same sand as house move>

Wow Janey that's bloody great sleeping! I am massively envy. E likes to keep us on our toes and treated up to the earliest ever 2 hour wake up last night of 9-11pm, but this then meant she slept 11-8 with only 2 brief feeds. Not a patch on M though!

Apologies in advance for Daily Fail link, but this genuinely worries me. At only 7 months, E already constantly reaches for smartphones and tablets in preference to her own toys even though (to my knowledge) she has never been allowed to play/use one. It's just something about the bright screens which draws them in or something.

Oh don't get me started on bloody work, as predicted they're dicking me about re: flexible working so I'm just waiting to hear if I'm going to actually have a job to go back to. I'm having to go back in April sad

HazleNutt Thu 30-Jan-14 10:54:27

We had a reasonable night, a few feeding breaks. But I manage them half asleep, so couldn't even tell you how many times and when exactly he woke up.

cav have you seen this yet?

Cavort I read that article. However I have a slightly opposite view... Perhaps because I work in IT. Who says traditional toys are better than digital games and learning apps? Obviously I do not agree with a child 'addicted' to and screaming for any toy. However it is/was widely acknowledged that a child taught to read/write at home before school would have a 'head start'. Why is that not the same with technology? Today's world revolves around technology and all children will require the skills to use it effectively in all day to day tasks. The likelihood is that your child will learn using a computer or tablet at school. They will research using the Internet and submit homework online. So why is it a 'bad thing' to be learning to use it at a young age? You wouldn't want any child to play with any toy to the point of being addicted or antisocial, so I personally don't see why technology is any different

Cavort - L is very interested in my iPhone as well, though she mostly tries to chew it! I suppose they see us using them all the time as well so they're interested.

Alexandra6 Thu 30-Jan-14 11:03:06

Probably the same with game boys back in my day! And with tv if they're allowed to watch loads. I have a friend who gave iPads to hers aged 1.5 and 4! Keeps them occupied in restaurants! Another friend wouldn't even let hers watch tv until she was 2 and then it was limited. She's read a study that says toddlers are brighter if they play more interactively than staring at the tv, makes sense. It's interesting, I guess the time on them needs to be capped if they are allowed them. I'm ashamed to say the lights on the tv entertain S so I put her facing the tv sometimes! Just for a bit! Terrible mum

When she's a bit older, S will be allowed to watch films and play with the iPad with me but only set times. Before bed will be reading for example. DH is also really keen to get her into sports and I want her to do outdoor play as much as poss.

Alexandra6 Thu 30-Jan-14 11:12:49

Oh and I really like the idea of meal time where we sit and chat as a family rather than meals in front of the tv, teaching S to socialise and think about things. Hope we can do this in reality as at the moment DH and I are eating of trays in front of the tv!

Alexandra6 Thu 30-Jan-14 11:13:32


Quodlibet Thu 30-Jan-14 11:23:10

Wish me luck today too - I have my PhD viva this afternoon. Fortunately I've had a week of really good sleep (thank you baby!) so don't feel too mentally frazzled.

My sis said vit D deficiency made her feel postnatally shit, and a supplement really helped. It'd be worse in the winter too (though Lol you've had a month of sun, no?).

HazleNutt Thu 30-Jan-14 11:35:35

ooh good luck quod! So we should call you Dr Quod son?

ZombiesAreClammyDodgers Thu 30-Jan-14 11:44:21

Hello.. Does anybody on this thread remember me? I think I last posted around dec or jan last year...

Cavort Thu 30-Jan-14 11:46:54

Zombies yes!!! Where on earth have you been??? grin

ZombiesAreClammyDodgers Thu 30-Jan-14 12:05:10

I'm just so bad at following a thread! Ie with first trimester exhaustion I wouldn't be able to check the thread for days and then the conversation would have moved on and I'd feel like an idiot butting in..
And so I slowly slunk off blush

Cavort Thu 30-Jan-14 12:10:18

Well get yourself back in and put us on your watch list! How are you? I assume you have a 6ish month old baby to tell us all about? If your baby sleeps through the night and you are feeling refreshed and well-rested then we may have to rethink your readmission as we are all constantly knackered. grin

Purple what are your work doing to mess you about?

Ooo good luck Dr Quod, although I am sure you won't need it and will absolutely piss it. smile

Merk I do completely agree and my DH is also an IT/gadget lover so E will definitely grow up around lots of technology and hopefully be quite savvy with it all by the time she goes to school, but I just wonder where the line is between it being educational/healthy versus too much? I already see it now with DSD (she's just turned 8). She used to love taking the dog out with DH but since she's had a tablet all she wants to do is sit in the house playing games and watching Netflix on it. We ask her if she wants to go and she says she 'doesn't feel like it,' or some other lame excuse, but we then say that if she chooses not to go then there will be no 'screens' while DH is gone and she miraculously changes her mind.

janey1234 Thu 30-Jan-14 13:17:52

Zombies!!! Hi! Of course we remember you, missed you! How's things?x

MotherOfCleo Thu 30-Jan-14 13:19:23

zombies how the heck are you? I was thinking about you yesterday, how are things? So nice to hear from you!

I am now on antobiotics as I have an infection in my nicely healed scar. sad Gutted. Its so annoying and whats worse it really really hurts. sad

Cavort Thu 30-Jan-14 13:45:05

I think E is becoming a spoon refuser. angry

She took her porridge from a spoon this morning, but when I tried to give lunch she point blank refused to take it. I thought she might not like it (left over mashed up oriental stir fry that DH and I had for Dinner last night) and defrosted a portion of chicken dinner which she has eaten lots of times and she wouldn't take that either.

Then I spread some Philadelphia on some bread and she is eating it. angry angry
I am not against the BLW route but she takes so bloody long to feed herself and we only get 3 hours between naps to get out of the house to do anything so half of that time will be taken up by feeding.

MotherOfCleo Thu 30-Jan-14 13:53:19

I've been really naughty and tried H with some hipp organic apple and pear today, I wanted to see how he would react to the spoon and so far so good thankfully.

Cavort Thu 30-Jan-14 14:05:25

How old is he Mother? I think earlier than 17 weeks an infant's gastrointestinal function is definitely not mature enough to cope with anything other than milk. I can see that it's tempting though with us all banging on about it!

Cavort Thu 30-Jan-14 14:14:48

Just having a nosey online for BLW recipe ideas and came across the Allergy UK site which has some good recommendations on what foods to introduce at what age.

Interestingly, their advice also goes against NHS advice to wait until 26 weeks and encourages first weaning from 17 weeks onwards.

HazleNutt Thu 30-Jan-14 14:26:54

cavort I wouldn't worry yet, V has had a couple of days when he clamps his mouth shut and pushes the spoon away, but happily eats the same thing next day. I think it might be when he's teething, that spoon hurts the gums.

So had my evaluation, all good, everybody happy. Didn't have actual salary discussions with boss, will have that in a few weeks when discussing the goals etc for this year. But told her that I want to talk about it and she agreed that we will discuss. So we'll see.

MotherOfCleo Thu 30-Jan-14 15:17:27

It was only a few mouthfuls of my friends stewed apple and pear that she had for her lo as he was so interested. grin
H is 3 months, me and my brother were weaned at 3 months as that was the advice at the time so I'm not too worried. I'm certainly not starting properly in the next few weeks but was impressed that he coped so well with a spoon.

BraveLilBear Thu 30-Jan-14 15:26:12

Ooh belated luck Quod!

Interestingly, I am suspecting vit D deficiency too. Will see what transpires but have started some vit D and a c and zinc tablet.

Dr Google suggests that all breastfeeding mothers should be supplementing vit D and breastfed babies should be given vitamin drops from one month old, with all babies aged 6 months plus on vitamins shock

Hands up who knew any of this from a health professional??

MotherOfCleo Thu 30-Jan-14 15:36:53

oh yes sorry missed that, good luck quod.

So glad I went to the docs as the infected bit is bloody painful now. Still not sure how the internal stitches/scar can be infected but not the outside? I'm also slightly concerned that he said if I'd left it the infection would make its way to the surface and leave me with an open wound...yuck!

MotherOfCleo Thu 30-Jan-14 15:38:31

brave I am very much 'hands down', had no idea about that! Surely they should get vitamins from the milk?

janey1234 Thu 30-Jan-14 15:57:43

Well done hazle and good luck for when you have the actual "chat".

Quod - hope I'm not too late to wish you good luck

Cavort - that's exactly what my DSIL said about weaning (paediatric consultant one). NHS advice likely to change. Important to wait to wean until 17 weeks but then introducing food at that point is fine, and introducing allergens is beneficial - with the exception of gluten which should be introduced at 6 months (no sooner, no later).

Just had to scrape loads of dog shit off my pushchair wheels. I bloody love dogs but FGS!! M has been poi-tastic today so his nappies combined with the dog poo makes me feel like I've been wiping faeces off one thing or another all day long. sad

HazleNutt Thu 30-Jan-14 16:44:41

It's never easy to ask for a raise, but if you don't ask, how would the boss know you're not happy?

MotherOfCleo Thu 30-Jan-14 17:13:17

Good luck hazel, have had to ask that awkward question myself so feel your pain. I did get the raise though so fx for you!

Alexandra6 Thu 30-Jan-14 22:29:02

How did you get on quod?

Bad night again here! S has been screaming and crying for 2.5 hours, no idea if it's wind, hunger or reflux. Keep putting her back on the boob but that could make wind or reflux worse, whereas winding could be making reflux worse - so basically I'm confused and frazzled! confused The funny thing is I wanted to start a loose gina ford plan this evening as it's worked well for janey - we managed the bath bit before it all went to shit so that was an epic fail!

BlearyeyedLol Thu 30-Jan-14 22:40:06

Hope it went well quod. When is this money chat hazle?
Oh dear Alex I hope your night improves from here. I too still have a fully awake baby currently sitting up in her travel cot whinging that she is too tired to sleep!!!
The good news is that the gp has asked for a blood test so at least I will soon find out if all is in order!

Alexandra6 Thu 30-Jan-14 22:54:19

She just dropped off on the boob and the silence was absolute bliss, such a relief, but then she woke up crying again, she flinched a few times before she woke sad DH is out with work tonight so I've txt saying to go straight to the spare room in case I do finally get her to sleep. She's wheezing like crazy too, she's wheezy anyway but it's like darth vader choking! sad

Good news about the blood test, hope it gives you either reassurance or an answer.

BlearyeyedLol Thu 30-Jan-14 23:02:57

L has also just fallen asleep in bed next to me which means there is no space for dh in bed!!!!

Alexandra6 Thu 30-Jan-14 23:17:04

She's finally asleep! She's on me, I'm in the most uncomfy position ever, have an itch on my ankle I can't reach, am terrified to move or even reach for the tv remote and can't sleep like this...but the main thing is she's asleep and not crying at last! Can someone please come and switch my tv on and bring me a strong drink and chocolate!

HazleNutt Fri 31-Jan-14 06:32:46

wow alex that must be so incredibly tough! Hope DH came home soon after that to scratch your ankle.

V only woke up once last night. Whereas I woke up every 2 hours anyway because I'm so used to it already grin

Alexandra6 Fri 31-Jan-14 07:10:46

He got home at 3.30am - but don't worry I wasn't still in the same position staring at my ankle manically! I put S down in her babybay around midnight and she slept until 2.15, then we were up for a couple of hours as she had a feed and fell straight to sleep on me but I could hear wind in her and see it on her face so she woke up as I was trying to gently wind. I've had about 4.5 hours sleep, hoping for more after this feed if I can get her down to sleep again.

Bet poor DH is going to have a rough day at work today! He changed from his suit into a t-shirt when he got in and I watched him putting it on twice, realising it was back to front each time with a frown, and then giving up and passing out. Tricky things, t-shirts wink

MotherOfCleo Fri 31-Jan-14 08:15:12

These babies are tiny little sleep stealers....well apart from V who was a very good boy. H had 4 good nights of one wake up a night and an inital sleep anywhere from 4 an a half to 6 hours, the last two nights hes been back to waking every 2 hours, its like torture! sad It's made worse by the fact I know he can sleep for 6 hours, I'm so glad its Friday as that means my OH does his one night duty of the week tonight and I actually get to try and sleep.

ZombiesAreClammyDodgers Fri 31-Jan-14 08:27:06

cavort, mother, janey - I'm well, thanks! Have a 5 mo dd. Long story short, pregnancy went great, birth was horrific, but I'm up for doing that again!
Sleep- ah.. There are days and there are days..

ZombiesAreClammyDodgers Fri 31-Jan-14 08:35:56

mother do you have twins? Respect..

HazleNutt Fri 31-Jan-14 08:44:08

V's room has been wallpapered and we'll be assembling the furniture this weekend, hopefully bed will be delivered soon as well. He does always sleep the best in the beginning of the night, when we're not in the bedroom yet, so maybe his own room will improve the sleep as well?

janey1234 Fri 31-Jan-14 08:55:53

Hopefully hazle, that's exactly what happened to M after a few nights of hell .

He slept well again last night but woke up at 6am full of the joys of bloody spring, laughing and screaming. Cute, but far too early.

Alex, loving your DH. He's hilarious when drunk smile

Zombies - horrific birth? I'm sorry sad Still, impressive you'd be prepared to go through it again! TTC #2 any time soon? I've got to wait 12 months due to c section, and then am getting married, so having to wait until sept to try again...

ZombiesAreClammyDodgers Fri 31-Jan-14 09:38:01

Heck no that shop is shut for now though normal service may resume soon!
I am hoping to start TTC again end of the year, maybe beginning of next year. Not sure DH is exactly on board yet not sure he's gotten over the sights and sounds last time round wink

HazleNutt Fri 31-Jan-14 10:03:04

zombies we have a secret Facebook group if you would like to share the photos of your DD. My DH is broody as hell, whereas like you, I'm not that enthusiastic about doing the labour part again. Even though mine would probably be considered a good one would have bene, if the effing epidural had worked

Alexandra6 Fri 31-Jan-14 11:49:18

Hi zombies we haven't met but congrats on your baby! I'm thinking of ttc again in Sept when my baby is 10 months old, for a few reasons (struggled to conceive before, DH is 38, he's keen on another, good to do the baby stage in one go). I won't be ready for the newborn stage again but not sure I ever will be!

BlearyeyedLol Fri 31-Jan-14 11:52:26

Hi zombies I don't think we've met. I'm lol. I took a break off mn at the beginning of pg but been back ever since. If you want to join our fb group pm me your full name and I will add yougrin
Another shocker last night. L is definitely jet lagged and does not want to be alone. Brought her to my bed at 4 and she then slept until 9:30. Is it a horrible thing to let her do that??

Alexandra6 Fri 31-Jan-14 11:58:53

lol was talking to a friend about that over lunch yesterday and she let hers (now 1.5 and 4) sleep in with them sometimes - she thinks do what it takes to get sleep instead of stressing about things being "wrong". Interested to hear what other people think. My MIL was also saying she took DH's dummy off him at 2 and he cried and was so upset for days - she did it because she thought it was "wrong" but looking back she wishes she'd just let him have it as he only used it at night and at the end of the day, who else sees or cares. Although I did read a good idea on here the other day about sending the dummy off to the 'dummy fairy' and a gift and certificate comes back.

HazleNutt Fri 31-Jan-14 12:19:27

lol, baby sleeping, you happy, baby happy - does not sound like a horrible thing in any way.

Cavort Fri 31-Jan-14 12:22:35

Lol of course it's not horrible! Just do whatever the hell you need to do to get yourself enough sleep!

Zombies we need details! Name, DOB, weight, picture, labour/birth story are we talking properly horrific or just averagely horrific as is the typical nature of most births?

Alex you are so nice feeling sorry for your DH at work with a hangover when you probably don't feel much better yourself!

Hazle that's good news on V's sleeping... not so good that you kept waking up! I am the same though, if E treats me to a good night and doesn't wake up until late (like last night, 4.30) I am usually awake waiting for her to wake up. confused

janey1234 Fri 31-Jan-14 12:39:05

Agreed lol. Can't tell you how many times I've brought M back in with me into bed to get him back to sleep. Whatever works for you both is the right thing to do! smile

HazleNutt Fri 31-Jan-14 13:09:35

Also, I have been using some aromatherapy oils in bedroom in the past couple of nights when he has slept better. Might be a coincidence, of course, but in any case it smells really nice. This one, if anybody wants to give it a try (I don't have the diffuser, just put a few drops here and there):

MotherOfCleo Fri 31-Jan-14 13:26:48

zombies twins? god no, just the one is enough at the moment grin

I agree with cav we need full gory details! Congrats on your little girl, hope you'll join the fb group so we can see some pics grin

ZombiesAreClammyDodgers Fri 31-Jan-14 14:11:39

Thanks! Will pm my name to you.
Do you guys speak there too or only share pics?

Alexandra6 Fri 31-Jan-14 14:12:27

Thanks hazle I'm going to order some, I like trying things like that (I'm into hippy shit as janey says) grin

Cavort Fri 31-Jan-14 16:14:37

I am not into hippy shit, but I am so knackered even if you said you had practiced satanic rituals or voodoo and it had worked in getting the baby to sleep better I would be up for giving it a whirl. grin I might order some, certainly won't do any harm.

Zombies the FB group tends to be a bit of both.

janey1234 Fri 31-Jan-14 17:54:46

You do indeed love hippy shit Alex, but I'd happily give that a go! M's room still has a vague smell of new carpet, even though it was fitted eight months ago, and worst case it might shift that. Best case more sleep! Thanks for the tip hazle.

Alex I totally have the taste for wine now having spent a lovely afternoon in the pub with you. Given DP's train is delayed, do we think it's acceptable or unacceptable to start on the wine without him, once M is in bed? I fear I will be straying into bad mum territory, but it is a Friday and in the old days I would have already drunk a bottle of wine in my lunch break

janey1234 Fri 31-Jan-14 17:56:05

Oh and M is definitely a keeno - need to teach him to play hard to get. Not sure grabbing a girl's face is the way to woo her. Apologies again to S!

Alexandra6 Fri 31-Jan-14 18:04:06

I've had another glass of wine next to me since I got in, didn't occur to be that was bad mum behaviour oops wink DH is home though now to help although not sure how helpful he'll actually be with his hangover! Sophia is overtired but won't nap, hoping she drifts off soon so we can relax!

HazleNutt Fri 31-Jan-14 18:25:36

DH out here as well and I'm certainly having my Friday wine (we try not to drink during the week, so I've been missing my old friend Bordeaux).

MotherOfCleo Sat 01-Feb-14 13:51:44

Hum, so gym goers, what is best for toning an apres preggo tum? Zumba or Piloxing? Piloxing looks very combat/tai bo-esk. I have a hula hoop which would be fab but after my recent infect flare up I'm too scared to use it. Won't be gyming for a few weeks either to give it a chance to heal.

HazleNutt Sat 01-Feb-14 14:40:42

Those are both cardio, you would rather need strength training like Bodypump or core training like CXWorx.
As for those 2, probably similar effect, although I don't know piloxing. Go see which one you like better. Zumba can be very good for the waistline, but as each instructor can make up the class pretty much as they like, you can also end up in one where you barely break a sweat.

MotherOfCleo Sat 01-Feb-14 15:04:32

hum, there isn't a pump class, there is a kettlebells one though, would that be better?

HazleNutt Sat 01-Feb-14 15:17:27

kettlebells is excellent, but there's a lot of yanking and swinging, so I'm not sure if it's ok after a cs, maybe ask your doc, just in case?

MotherOfCleo Sat 01-Feb-14 15:19:00

Cheers hazel will do :-)

HazleNutt Sat 01-Feb-14 15:20:56

checked and that piloxing seems to be quite similar to Tae Bo, just with some pilates moves added. Should be good for cardio and general fitness.

MotherOfCleo Sat 01-Feb-14 15:31:36

Thanks grin yeah I thought piloxing looked good for general fitness and looks quite good as a full body work out.

janey1234 Sat 01-Feb-14 16:20:37

Gosh I thought that piloxing must have been a typo blush <unfit>

janey1234 Sat 01-Feb-14 16:22:02

Mother - how's your scar btw? Still sore! I would def go easy given you have an infection - apparently there are seven layers they cut through in a cs so they will all need to be well healed before exercising, and i would imagine the infection will slow the healing down...

Cavort Sat 01-Feb-14 19:58:47

If that woman on The Jump can do all those winter sports and a ski jump 11 weeks after a CS then I'm sure you will be ok Mother!

janey1234 Sat 01-Feb-14 20:55:22

She made me want to vom. 11 weeks later! ��

janey1234 Sat 01-Feb-14 20:55:49

Oh all those numbers were meant to be blush

Alexandra6 Sat 01-Feb-14 22:50:03

All this fitness talk is making me feel like a lazy cow! Janey let's def walk to the pub halfway between us next time to keep fit and then stuff our faces with pizza and wine again

MotherOfCleo Sun 02-Feb-14 09:29:40

Scar is still lumpy, swollen, red and a bit sore so yep taking it easy till it goes down janey, its just frustrating as I'd decided and planned what classes I was going to do. sad For the time being its just dog walking for me. confused

I've not been watching The Jump cav, wow 11 weeks after a cs, is she mad! That's one brave/crazy lady!

HazleNutt Sun 02-Feb-14 17:09:30

alex if I looked like you, I wouldn't bother with exercise. envy

But I only look half-presentable when slimmer, and I love my food, so I really have to work out not to scare small children

ZombiesAreClammyDodgers Mon 03-Feb-14 01:46:06

What beautiful photos on the group!! And loving the pooch and muggy photos!!

ZombiesAreClammyDodgers Mon 03-Feb-14 01:50:38

mother , cav - three day labour induced by sneaky consultant to gave me a sweep whilst just doing an exam eventually followed by tearing, forceps delivery, episiotomy (of course), stitches getting infected, and last but not the least subcutaneous spreading of the infection. Oh and waters breaking with the worst contraction ever at the precise moment as I was being (finally!) injected with the epidural.
But all ok now from that.
If I can only remember to do my kegels I should be fine.
How is everyone else remembering to do them?

ZombiesAreClammyDodgers Mon 03-Feb-14 01:51:01

Muggy?? I meant moggy. Stupid auto correct.

Cavort Mon 03-Feb-14 05:16:54

Oooh Zombies I am wincing just at the thought of a subcutaneous undercarriage infection. Glad it's all ok now though. smile I also had an epidural after a long labour - BEST INVENTION EVER!!

I try to do some kegels while E is BFing, but i've become a bit lazy with them lately. I haven't had any leakage incidents since birth though so FX so far so good.

HazleNutt Mon 03-Feb-14 07:26:23

whenever I start thinking that he's getting over his sleep regression, he has a night like the last one, up every hour and demanding to be fed. Sigh. This kid is not planning to sleep til his 15..

Alexandra6 Mon 03-Feb-14 07:57:13

Sorry you had a rough night hazle. I've been watching a programme called baby whisperer on some random sky channel, a woman called Tracey Hoggs comes into the home to help with sleep/baby probs. Anyway she's just been with a family and what she did is made them put the baby into its own room, rather than cosleeping, and dad had to calm the baby by cuddling/patting no matter how much it cried. The mum couldn't go back in, she could only go for the set feed times. Dad ended up in there at first on a blow up mattress. Something to do with breaking the reliance on mum and the link between comfort/sleep/feed. Seemed to work wonders within a few nights, not sure if they did anything else as missed some of the programme but I've got the baby whisperer book as someone bought it for me, I was a bit cynical but might see what tips are in it. There's a different episode on now with a refluxy baby, really similar to S's episodes.

S slept for 5 hours straight yay. She's been asleep since a quick feed at 5am but on me as I wanted to let DH sleep well before work so I stayed awake holding her, silly really. Despite being fussy before bed and some tears over the weekend, she had a good one generally. And I ate dairy woop.

MotherOfCleo Mon 03-Feb-14 08:14:48

Thinking of you hazel, not the best start to the week huh. sad H was the same slept pretty well all weekend then did 2 x 2.5 hour stretches before being up every single sodding hour last night. This boy was sent singularly to rob me of sleep I think.

Ouch zombies, that sounds seriously sore!!! sad Glad all is well now. I had 3 days of contrations which resulted in emcs as turned out I had no waters and contractions were distressing H, I now have an infection in my section scar 3 months on....very random. Why isn't birth how they portray it in the films huh!

Cavort Mon 03-Feb-14 08:43:00

Alex what you're describing is just controlled crying. Doesn't matter that Dad was there, that baby wanted Mum for comfort and was separated from her and left to cry until he realised he couldn't have her. Goes against nature as far as I'm concerned, even though it probably does work.

Alexandra6 Mon 03-Feb-14 08:58:57

Do you think so, even though the dad was there? She pitched it that it was good bonding for dad and made the the cuddle/patting the comfort rather than the feed. Although actually wouldn't that just be replacing one thing with the other? Also I was wondering what if the baby needs more food - although I know lots of people try and get into set feeding times. I think I'd always end up offering boob in case she is just hungry! Also I can't imagine her ever drifting off without a feed as that's how she gets to sleep. Same with cosleeping, I'll have to try and be strong when she goes into her own room I guess and just keep going in.

Alexandra6 Mon 03-Feb-14 09:09:02

Just a quick question - Sophia has her 8 week vaccs tomorrow and I'm seeing a friend after for lunch and a walk. Were your babies ok after their 8 week vaccs? The other option they offered was next tues but she'd be 9 weeks then, not sure if that makes a difference to do it a week later, the receptionist said probably not but wasn't sure.

HazleNutt Mon 03-Feb-14 09:10:58

mother I quite agree, was watching some old Friends episodes and Carol was giving birth in about 5 minutes, not a drop of sweat or hair out of place. I quite preferred the "Coupling" version with "Get me the FUCKING EPIDURAL!!!"

I still get upset every time I think about my birth experience. Yes, it was short, 5 hours, a couple of pushes and a few small stitches. But I was there, chewing the pillow and my arm and thinking that if those are contractions with epidural, then there is absolutely no way I could ever manage labour without. I did try to mention a few times that this epidural made no difference whatsoever (and was on a drip, so contractions every minute), but nurses kept fobbing me off that oh no, it's normal that it hurts a little. And then later I hear other people describing how they got the epidural, had a nap, read some magazines - ah, so that's how it was supposed to be! Whereas I was hooked up on monitors, so couldn't move around, with drip induced contractions and no pain relief whatsoever.

Well, I still want another one but am already practising how to say in French "No, I will not climb on that bed, I was fine on the floor", "no I am not pushing on my back with my legs in stirrups, have you no idea about anatomy and gravity??" and "Get the bloody anesthesist back here right now!!!"

alex the controlled crying is not for me, at least not at this age. But once V is in his own room (probably this week) we will try to send DH to comfort him instead of me - not so much hoping that it will improve V's sleep, but it might improve mine grin

HazleNutt Mon 03-Feb-14 09:12:19

alex V is usually a little more sleepy after his jabs.

MotherOfCleo Mon 03-Feb-14 09:26:23

I agree hazel, thinking about the birth still upsets me. Also as my oh only got their afterwards he didnt see the shit hit the fan (not literally), he didnt see me gradually reduced to crying quietly as I was simultaniously 1)shaved 2)catheterised 3)had bp taken 4)hooked up to monitor 5)had canula put in, all while contracting and recovering from the pain of the surgeon attempting to break my waters and 'helpfully' manually stretching my cervix to 4cm. He still thinks a section is the easier option, wish he saw the lead up so he knows there was nothing easy about it.

Alex I guess that as someone is going to the baby it is better than leaving the baby to cry alone. I actually get quite emotional when people talk about controlled crying/cry it out, the thought of leaving H to scream and scream until he is so tired and sad that he gives up and falls into an exhausted sleep really upsets me, I don't know how people can do it. They must be much more hardened than I am and I'm not one of these women who runs in and picks baby up as soon as he makes a sound, most of the time if H is grizzling and whining in his crib me rolling him onto his side, or holding my hand by his face is enough to settle him, I do want him to know I'm there for him though.

Sorry realise that is quite an essay.

MotherOfCleo Mon 03-Feb-14 09:29:19

Oh meant to say alex, H was ok after his jabs, I did pre dose him with calpol though. He struggled a few hours later with bad tummy ache from the oral one so on wednesday (when he has his next jabs) I plan to give gripe water before and after to try and counteract that. I also went out with a friend after his jabs, thi k being walked in the pram helped him sleep of any initial effects.

Cavort Mon 03-Feb-14 10:07:49

Isn't it a shame that the only Mum on here who got a birth anywhere close to what she wanted was Janey with her ELCS. We have all recovered and have lovely healthy babies, which is the most important outcome, but it makes me wonder what is the point in antenatal classes going through all the birth choices and decisons you are allegedly able to make when in reality you get very little choice but to go along with how the HCP's want to get the baby out.

Hazle I still feel angry on your behalf that your epidural failed. The amount of pain I was in before mine took effect, I really don't think I could of carried on at that level. Not that you had a choice I suppose, but how absolutely horrendous for you.

Alex as I understand it, CIO is when the baby is left alone for hours until they stop crying, but with CC there is usually some parental presence while still not giving in to what the baby wants/needs. The Con of Controlled Crying.

BraveLilBear Mon 03-Feb-14 11:09:46

Agreed Cavort, perhaps the thing that upset me the most (apart from the crappy aftercare) was that we were in no way prepared for everything that went wrong.

Hazle that sounds appalling sad would a birth debrief before you get upduffed with number two help do you think?

Had an interesting discussion with two friends the other week about births. None of us had pleasant experiences, two out of three needed forceps, the third only escaped them by minutes. One was left to push for 5 hours being told she 'wasn't doing it right' - it turned out the umbilical cord was so short it kept bungeeing the baby back.

Part of the appeal for number two for me is the chance to have a better birth (although I now know that it's a total lottery).

ZombiesAreClammyDodgers Mon 03-Feb-14 11:24:52

alex my DD and another baby I know both had a tender tummy from the oral rotavirus vaccine. In my DD's case not touching her tummy helped, and though she was a bit grizzly a lot of sleep and cluster bf helped her.

ZombiesAreClammyDodgers Mon 03-Feb-14 11:28:47

shockshockshock At hazle - you deserve a medal.
And that poor woman with the shorter umbilical cord!!!
A friend who gave birth a few months ago was told by the midwife that if she asked for pain relief one more time, she (the midwife) wouldn't be back and would leave her to labour on. She eventually gave birth without pain relief and tore badly angry
I have to say the midwives and consultants in my case (apart from the sneaky one) were excellent, and my birth troubles were despite them. They really did everything they could for me.

Cavort Mon 03-Feb-14 11:49:11

I completely agree Zombies. My birth was far from desirable - 5 day very painful latent labour and very little sleep followed by discovery of bradycardia during routine monitoring meaning it was all systems go to get baby out. They broke my waters and allowed labour to progress on its own with close monitoring, but when it came to pushing they needed her out ASAP so I had to have episiotomy, forceps and a room full of people, BUT in spite of all that I was very pleased with my care. I was consulted at every point and it was made sure I fully understood what was going on at all times and what the likely next step was which really made me feel at ease.

That is absolutely outrageous about the way your friend was spoken to. Who the fuck do some of these MW's think they are speaking to an already distressed woman like that? It is your fundamental human right to be given pain relief during labour and it can only be refused on sound medical grounds. My Sister wasn't happy with the first MW she had while in labour so she complained and got a different much nicer one assigned to her.

HazleNutt Mon 03-Feb-14 11:59:59

brave I happened to have my own ob-gyn delivering V and he did admit at the 6-week check-up that the epi indeed didn't work. That helped, to know that I was not some kind of a wimp who couldn't manage when it "hurts a little".
I'm blaming myself mostly though, as I'm normally strong-willed and opinionated and could have easily told what I wanted to do and what not, but at that time just allowed to be bossed around.
I know better next time. Already feeling sorry for the hospital staff, they will have to deal with a bitch from hell who won't do anything she does not want to. grin

At least they are very happy to offer epidurals here. I happened to read an old thread (http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/childbirth/1147361-Anyone-else-tricked-out-of-epidural/AllOnOnePage) where hundreds of women wrote that they were not given one even though they asked. I found it especially shocking that so many were lied to and told that it's too early/too late/everybody busy etc.
An anesthesist described how she was giving the epidural to a woman who asked what was the emergency that kept the anesthesist busy for the past 4 hours, since she had been asking for the epidural. There was no emergency, anesthesist had been surfing the net, the midwife just didn't call her and lied to the woman in labour. shock

BraveLilBear Mon 03-Feb-14 14:02:20

That is true that some women have an awful time re pain relief over here. I was actually the one turning an epidural down (tho ended up being the emergency and needing an anesthetist in theatre).

I definitely agree that first time mums get a doubly raw deal - routinely patronised and don't know how to stand up for themselves. Next time I will also be bitch from hell somewhat more assertive lol grin

BlearyeyedLol Mon 03-Feb-14 14:22:33

I think I was fairly lucky in terms of labour. I did get the Epi and it did work. The post natal was a bit shit but that was it. I was told I was good at pushing and had I practised it - I then said well I have a poo everyday, does that count? grin
We had L in our bed for the last two nights and she slept beautifully. I really don't know what to do.
Dh thinks she will benefit from having a bottle of formula at night. I really need help to think straight. I feel I am failing her if I give her formula and just can't bear the thought of it. I know I have enough milk and the only reason I would give her formula would be for our comfort rather than hers. What do you all think?
Alex L was feeling very sorry after herself after first lot of jabs and tbh I felt awful too!!! But I'm sure S can manage a lunch date!

BraveLilBear Mon 03-Feb-14 14:33:00

Lol very much in the same boat here re nights. I want to keep breastfeeding because it's so much easier, especially when I go back to work.

Went to have bloods taken this morning and the HCA started telling me how her kids slept through after she gave up at 4/5 months and that 'well you've given him the best start...'

Bloody hell I didn't ask you!

Feel very torn. Am I being selfish carrying on bf?? I feel your pain Lol.

HazleNutt Mon 03-Feb-14 15:02:12

cav will be here with links but afaik, there is no link between giving the baby formula and them sleeping better.

janey1234 Mon 03-Feb-14 15:13:59

Alex - after both 8 and 12 week jabs Miles slept through only times ever up until last week and was totally fine otherwise. Same with all the Nct mums.

lol - in my experience formula before bed made absolutely no difference to M's sleep. Do it if you want to, but don't do it for sleep as I honestly think that's a fallacy. M has slept the same whether he has a bottle of expressed or formula before bed. Have to say that feeding from a bottle, rather than the breast, did make an immediate difference to his sleep when he was tiny as I think he got too tired and sleepy breastfeeding so wouldn't fill up.

Cavort - I know, it's true, I do feel very grateful for that. Got my elcs - and weirdly needed it due to M flipping to transverse breech - and it was brilliant. Worst part for me was when they manually turned him round to feet first by ECV beforehand - OUCH - but I had no choice as it was impossible to get him out in any way with the way he was lying... However the next three days with him in SCBU then swiftly moved to NICU were I think the worst of my life. But that was all due to the way he was lying too. But the birth itself was bloody amazing (sorry) - lovely staff, party atmosphere almost. Even when the spinal started to wear off blush and I could start moving my legs again, despite being pretty damn painful it was fine as the anaesthetist gave me gas (to quote her - not the 'watered down' gas and air women in labour have, but the 'neat stuff'!) and said she could knock me unconscious within five seconds if I needed it, which made it so much more bearable. We'd been warned he would come out 'flat' and wd need help to breathe because of being transverse so even that tense moment whilst they got him to breathe wasn't as bad as it would have been if we'd been unprepared. Thoroughly recommend an elcs. All seemed totally under control and I trusted all those wonderful people looking after me implicitly. Embarrassingly the morphine also made the first few hours of Miles' time in NICU more bearable as I was totally off my head quite relaxed - told DP I felt very serene about it allblush

Oh and for our first dance at the wedding we're having the song that was playing whilst he was born, so I think that shows what a wonderful experience it was. Sorry all.sad

janey1234 Mon 03-Feb-14 15:16:05

Spinal wore off as they were sewing me up, forgot to mention that bit. Only on one side though weirdly. Ouchie.

MotherOfCleo Mon 03-Feb-14 16:04:54

janey my spinal travelled upwards and I ended up with numb arms and kept dozing off on the table. My OH was getting a bit worried as I kept snoozing but the mw knew what it was and they sat me up in bed as soon as they were able which was amazing as I felt partly crippled only being able to move my head.

lol H is on formula now and I still feel guilty about it, the hv's are all happy enough about it though. I can assure you it makes bugger all difference to sleep though! Janey is right, that's just an urban myth I think sad

ZombiesAreClammyDodgers Mon 03-Feb-14 16:06:35

So how many here would like to have another DC?
I am quite sure I would foolhardy

janey1234 Mon 03-Feb-14 16:30:57

Yes yes!!
I'd try again now but you're supposed to wait at least 12 months post cs (used to be 3 years apparently?!shock) and then I'm getting married in sept and want to drink on my wedding day. So will start trying then! Been clucky since the moment I had M though. Weird.

Cavort Mon 03-Feb-14 16:37:49

Lol I haven't got any links that prove FF makes no difference to a baby's sleep, but I definitely remember reading it in a couple of places but can't remember where. I think I read that if you are struggling with BFing or your baby is 'failing to thrive' (hate that term) then switching to formula may help with sleeping, but if BF is going well then it won't make any difference. You either have a sleeper or you don't and feeding method makes little difference to a crap normal sleeping baby like mine. FWIW I don't think there's anything wrong with giving a bottle of formula at night if it suits you, it's personal choice and you would have nothing to feel guilty about. However if you don't want to then maybe get your DH to have a read of this article to maybe help convince him to encourage carrying on with the boob. smile

Cavort Mon 03-Feb-14 16:40:58

Oh yes, and Zombies I have been on the fence about it since E was born, but I am slowly coming round to the idea of another one. We need to move house first though so maybe we would start trying after next Christmas (assuming we have found a house by then!)

Ah, we can tell the truth about birth now we're in postnatal! Mine was bloody horrendous, I still feel traumatised by it, I'm not sure I'll ever be able to have another child and I think every woman should be offered counselling afterwards.

Oh and welcome back Zombies, nice to see you.

Cavort Mon 03-Feb-14 17:07:07

Ah there you are Purple. I was about to send out a dinghy to see if you were under several feet of flood water.

Alexandra6 Mon 03-Feb-14 17:27:09

Yeah my birth was a bit of a nightmare, but weirdly I'm remembering it all much more positively as time goes on! The doctor and mv handled it badly as they had other priority cases they had to deal with, so I was left way too long between being checked for dilation and having my epidural and induction drip, and I shouldn't have been left so long on the drip either - I'd dilated much faster than they realised in the second stage and felt the pressure of her head even with the epidural but was repeatedly told I wouldn't be anywhere near yet after such a slow first stage. I found her heart rate dropping terrifying, the worst bit. I started shaking ridiculously when they said they had to get me ready for an emergency C because her heart rate was dropping too much but then they finally checked, panicked and said I had two contractions to get her out in as her head was right there. I'm very grateful my epidural worked even though I really didn't want one, I feel for anyone who has probs with the epidural. I REALLY didn't want the induction drip hormones but who knows how it would have gone without it - especially as they didn't check dilation again first so I'll never know how I was doing naturally although I suspect is gone quite far naturally. I'm also very grateful for the fact I got her out in three contractions. I didn't like the pressure they put on my labour as I was 42 weeks and my water had broken, but I do understand on paper that instantly makes it high risk. I also felt sick and got a really high temp straight after but was so happy it went down without ABs and also glad that Sophia loved the boob as soon as she came out. For next time I would insist they check the dilation if there is a large gap between the last check and getting the drip and epidural, that's my biggest lesson learnt. Great result at the end though and I remember the moments when DH and I laughed in early labour.

S and I have had such a lovely weekend and she's been brilliant today, chilled and happy. The night is young but I just love it when she's like this, sorry to be cheesy but after all the crying sessions it's just great enjoying it so much.

As it took us 16 months ttc before, we're going to just see what happens. I'd like to enjoy S's first summer so will prob leave it to chance from around September - same as janey! Scary we might have another so soon but I think there are benefits to doing the baby stage all at once eeeeeek

Alexandra6 Mon 03-Feb-14 17:39:35

God I really bang on sometimes, sorry grin

MotherOfCleo Mon 03-Feb-14 17:47:42

I have always wanted 2, I'd love love love to have a second, ideally a sister for H, but I want to wait at least a couple of years.

MotherOfCleo Mon 03-Feb-14 18:05:22

Ahh crap, my OHs boss doesnt have much local work for him but has offered to pay extra for him to work in reading for 2 weeks. It will mean an extra £650 tax free in the next 2 weeks but means him leaving at 5.30am each morning and not getting back till 8pm each night sad I'm gutted as I'm so ready for help by 5.30pm when he gets home. Also he will be knackered when he gets home so I can see it being a bit fraught between us. The cash will be a huge help and will pay for the kitchen refurb a couple of times over, gutting though as I enjoy our family time in the evening. I know some people work those hours anyway and I shouldnt moan but I am, it sucks.

Alexandra6 Mon 03-Feb-14 18:09:11

Gutted for you mother but keep thinking of the moola and try and see friends/get out and about as much as poss while he's working so much

ZombiesAreClammyDodgers Mon 03-Feb-14 19:24:39

Those are long hours but hopefully two weeks will pass very quickly if you throw yourself into the baby singing etc and NCT circuit?

janey1234 Mon 03-Feb-14 19:25:03

All this is making me count my lucky stars...

Alex - I know you really, really didn't want the drip, but my best friend from school lost her first son because of her waters breaking and him getting an infection. It's a scary old business this having babies lark.

Talking of which my pregnant friend had her baby today! Sounds v traumatic, he was back to back and ended in emcs, poor her. But they're both well and recovering. Another little boy - of her six closest friends, five of us have had little boys!

Alexandra6 Mon 03-Feb-14 19:41:25

I really didn't want the drip BUT even the mv seemed to think I should have been checked as there was such a delay and that I wouldn't have just been left on it if they'd realised how far I'd dilated. So I think that was the issue - if I needed the drip, I needed the drip but the mv said to remember for next time that my second stage was much more rapid than they predicted last time round. It would have saved me just lying there on the drip stressing about the heart rate if they'd looked when I said i could feel the head trying to come out! I honestly think all's well that ends well though smile

What's she called her baby boy? Ah wish her congrats from me.

HazleNutt Mon 03-Feb-14 20:06:32

zombie yes we want another one asap I wonder if we could use a surrogate though

mother the time will go faster than you think. A couple of years ago, DH used to work away, saw him only on weekends - that was pre-baby of course, but still, wasn't as bad as I feared.

Cavort Mon 03-Feb-14 20:49:15

YY to a surrogate Hazle. I really don't relish the thought of getting knocked up again. I would love to just fast forward to the baby and also miss out the labour and birth.

Mother you will be fine! I assume he will be around during the weekend in the middle so you can get some time off?

Alexandra6 Mon 03-Feb-14 21:50:01

I loved being knocked up - apart from the lack of wine!

MotherOfCleo Mon 03-Feb-14 22:06:12

I loved being knocked up too alex.

janey1234 Mon 03-Feb-14 22:25:01

I didn't hate it. I didn't love it. Would happily do it again.

Worst bit for me (apart from issues re pre eclampsia etc) was def lack of wine. That was HELL.

ZombiesAreClammyDodgers Mon 03-Feb-14 22:25:37

Me too, loved being knocked up. Apart from the terror (chap sneezed on my face on the Tube, next thing I was down with the flu); two bouts of flu; having to eat über judiciously.

ZombiesAreClammyDodgers Mon 03-Feb-14 22:27:05

I've forgotten the drunken feeling sad Now I daren't have any too much for fear I'll fall asleep before bedtime.
How the mighty have fallen.

MotherOfCleo Mon 03-Feb-14 23:31:13

Actually thinking about it, I was ill for most of the first 3 months which sucked! sad Maybe it wasnt as fun as I remembered.

I was never much of a wine drinker, I missed fruit cider yep I have no class LOTS though! Now I get pissed super embarassingly easily, which has made drinking far less fun.

The main thing I missed though was simply sleeping on my tummy, once I had H I couldnt do it due to leaky boobs and now I cant because of infected scar......not fair! sad angry

Alexandra6 Tue 04-Feb-14 01:14:13

Funnily enough I actually missed cider the most! And it's been the drink I've had most since giving birth. I'm classy too mother wink

MotherOfCleo Tue 04-Feb-14 01:51:10

down at midnight, first wake up 1.45....this is a new low. Going by his usual pattern I might get another 1 or 2 hours then I'll be up every sodding hour. I may cry. sad

Alexandra6 Tue 04-Feb-14 01:57:26

I tried a bath, feed, putting her down at 7 tonight. She went in her sleepyhead pillow in the lounge for about 15 mins before waking up and then had to nap on me until 10.30 when we all went to bed. She usually then goes in her sleepyhead at our bedtime for a good 3/4 hour run but only went down for two hours this time. Been feeding, winding and trying to get her back to sleep for 1.5 hours. She's really awake and smiley?! Every time she drifts off on me, I try and put her down but she wakes up.

Maybe I should abandon trying to establish an earlier bedtime routine if it messes up the good run of sleep we usually get at our bedtime?!

Million times better than a crying session either way.

MotherOfCleo Tue 04-Feb-14 03:24:11

H naps downstairs with us till 10/11ish, I am selfish I want his best sleep to coincide with when I sleep. As expected he was back up at 3, so now it'll be every hour, nights like this break me. sad

MotherOfCleo Tue 04-Feb-14 05:21:12

ok, so far H went to sleep at 12 an has been up at 1.45, 3 and 5.15 sad Does anyone elses OH roll over so their back is facing you as soon as LO cries? It pisses me off, its like he is making it clear it isnt his problem.

Alexandra6 Tue 04-Feb-14 05:41:39

S has been up since 4.30am so I've only had 4.5 hours broken sleep in total and she's only slept in two hour blocks tonight since our bedtime. She was crying a lot this time so not sure if she had bad wind. I miss our usual 3-5 hour block to start the night! She's sleeping beautifully on me now but I'm going to bite the bullet and try and put her down again so I can hopefully get some more sleep.

My DH has now gone to the spare room but I encourage him to do that or sleep through her wake ups - the way I see it is that it's better for me to be a zombie during the day as I don't have to operate my brain at work!

MotherOfCleo Tue 04-Feb-14 08:34:13

I've been letting him sleep for 3 months now, sometimes a bit of support would be nice that's all. Especially as I'm still expected to shop, cook, clean, launder, walk pooch etc no matter how little sleep I get.

I did get a 2 an a half hour stretch from 5.30-8 and feel more human now.

Alexandra6 Tue 04-Feb-14 09:43:55

I have to say my DH is very supportive about it in the night ("well done babe", "you're doing a great job" etc) which does make a difference. He still gets the same amount of sleep but just saying that gives me a boost although doesn't help with the evil torture of sleep deprivation

I didn't get any more sleep, yawn, but when the sun comes out and it's daylight, I feel better. Just not sure whether to keep trying for an earlier bedtime/routine to help us later on or not.

HazleNutt Tue 04-Feb-14 10:44:24

My DH can sleep through anything - he simply does not hear when V wakes up. But he has offered that he will do the nights when V goes to his own room. So basically V will wake me up and I will kick DH out of bed to go see what's up. Or maybe I'll just invest in good earplugs and tape baby monitor to DH's ear..

As for pregnancy, no I didn't like being pregnant and would not mind if I didn't have to do it again. Even though I had the easiest pregnancy possible and I did enjoy the horrified "you're still here??" comments from gym and work grin
It's just the worrying that I don�t manage well, especially if you are like me and read about everything that could possibly go wrong. Honestly, that's a really, really stupid idea, don't do it.

So based on this sample size, we can deduct that not only are sleeping babies a myth, so are natural, serene, empowering sneeze childbirths, where there's no pain really, just some pressure, that is really easy to manage with you know, breathing. And where you would actually care about having candles and whale songs around. Ha! It would not have made any difference if I had a whole Yankee Candle shop and an actual whale there..

Alexandra6 Tue 04-Feb-14 10:54:47

Really made me laugh hazle - I had a playlist for Sophia's birth with feel good songs I'd compiled to relax me, ha, as if! I said to DH the other day that we didn't even get to play it in the end - turns out he did play it and I'd not even noticed so that's how useful that was ;) About as useful as DH's snack bar he set up for me on a silver table he'd found which turned out to be for medical equipment, as the midwife told him sternly whilst he offered me yet another Malteser to "help with the contraction" wink

ZombiesAreClammyDodgers Tue 04-Feb-14 11:26:57

gringrin hazle and alexandra!!
Too true.
I had a playlist too- two actually. One with active gym type music and another with soft soothing stuff. Listened to the first playlist for a couple of hours. Never made it to the soothing stuff- I was grateful for some silence by the time they injected me with the epidural!
Hazle that's the only reason I am in two minds about another pregnancy, I'm a massive worrier. All the scans, the potential infections and issues, monitoring the movements, whether the baby would come out unscathed by birth, blah blah.
Can't complain about DD's sleep at the moment but we ARE hitting choppy teething waters and she has been waking up progressively earlier each morning to feed so we'll see hmm

BraveLilBear Tue 04-Feb-14 11:38:54

Bad times here. Following a monumental row last night,we gave H a bottle of formula to see if it would make a difference to his sleep.

He went down at 10 (late) and slept til 130. Then up again at 4 and 745.

Moderate improvement, but not all that.

Cavort Tue 04-Feb-14 12:15:51

I have come to the conclusion that E's eating has virtually no implications on her sleeping. Some days she hardly eats anything and sleeps well, and then others she eats like a horse and we have crap night. It really is a complete lottery. confused

I completely agree with what others are saying about being a total bitch much more assertive with HCP's if I were to do it for a second time. Starting at booking in, if the MW so much as mentions the MLU she will be told straight that I will not entertain the thought of birthing anywhere that can't give me an epidural, and she had better not give me any spiel about transferring to the CLU if I decide I want more pain relief. Not a fucking chance, I am starting off in the right place and not budging!

janey1234 Tue 04-Feb-14 12:21:09

Agree about food solid making little difference cavort. The only thing that makes a difference to his night time sleeps is daytime naps. Good naps yday, slept 7-6.15 solid smile

Snort at Yankee candle shop and actual whale
Hazel dont you know I'm going to be having a sneeze birth, I've got it all planned winkgrin

HazleNutt Tue 04-Feb-14 12:54:59

ouch sorry for scaring you now merk. Well on the positive side, my labour was 5 hours and when they told me to push, Dh claims he was out in 2 minutes. And recovery was also super-quick.

Just, as others have said, don't forget who is the one giving birth here - whatever you say, goes! Well except in real emergency, of course, but don't let them boss you around for their own convenience or because they areused to doing things a certain way.

ZombiesAreClammyDodgers Tue 04-Feb-14 15:49:48

Good things about labour- sorry merk about having listed all the negatives!-
-there was my very own scrunched up squiffy baby at the end!
-now I can think of it and laugh
-there was a sense of being a warrior and the body fighting the battle for you (not too grandiose I hope!)
-loved the solicitousness from family!
-stuff was FINALLY happening after waiting months and months

MotherOfCleo Tue 04-Feb-14 16:08:59

I think we all knew that squeezing a watermelon out of a keyhole wouldnt be particularly enjoyable, blush but the fact that most of us would, and want to, do it all again shows it cant be too bad merk. You soon forget as you are so focused on the new little life you created grin

Quodlibet Tue 04-Feb-14 16:24:17

Merk my birth didn't go at all as planned (spent 12 hrs in pool listening to relaxing playlist and eating snacks but not dilating, then broke waters, meconium, transfer to CLU, monitoring, epidural, induction hormone, ventouse and episiotomy; 30 + hrs in labour) BUT I feel pretty positive about it all, and while it was at times really hard, I'd do it all over again! In fact I enjoyed the pregnancy, the birth and the newborn stage - must be a glutton for punishment but I am looking forward to repeating it all.

<Bet you all think I'm a right weirdo.>

Alexandra6 Tue 04-Feb-14 18:18:24

Argh I've just had the journey from hell - in total contrast to yesterday, S has cried tons today, not feeding well and stressed. Anyway we met a friend for lunch and a walk which was lovely but it was a half hour car journey home after. She started crying in the car as I left so I gave it a few mins, then found a place to stop and calm her down. Drove off again and she started screaming and just didn't stop. By then I'm on the north circular and was so stressed I didn't think it was a good idea to try and leave on roads I didn't know. So I carried on driving, got stuck in traffic and she just screamed and screamed until she was making choking sounds sad Finally I was near home and found a good place to pull in with hazards on to calm her down - she was red and sweaty with tears everywhere. That's basically the same as CC for ages isn't it? At one point I really thought she was choking and nearly had to put my hazards on but it was dangerous on the north circular. Now worried I've scarred her for life and feel sick sad

janey1234 Tue 04-Feb-14 18:25:58

Ah babe, she will be fine. You did absolutely the right thing - stopping on the north circular could be potentially SO much worse than a few tears. Occasionally Miles has screamed in the car and there's nothing you can do about it (I know the choking sound you mean). It's not the same as controlled crying as I'm sure you were taking to her and she knew you were there - it's not the same as leaving her alone in the dark. Plus it can't be helped! Don't beat yourself up lovely.xx

Cavort Tue 04-Feb-14 18:28:21

Alex I've certainly had that happen in the car and i am not worried in the slightest about E being scarred for life. All babies cry, it's a fact and completely normal. It's not at all like CC and S will be absolutely fine. smile

Alexandra6 Tue 04-Feb-14 18:31:15

Just ran into my neighbour's husband (quickly wiped my tears!) who was really reassuring and said they once had to leave theirs crying for ages and she's now a lovely toddler. Maybe I shouldn't go on car journeys alone while she's still small. I tried talking and singing to her but she just screamed over it To be fair my singing is bloody awful

Cavort Tue 04-Feb-14 19:06:16

I'm glad your neighbour has put your mind at ease Alex. smile After a bit of trial and error we realised most of E's in-car unhappiness was caused by her being too hot in her synthetic car seat. Putting her in the car wearing less clothes sorted it out immediately. Might be worth a try with S? Even now on the coldest days E just goes into the car with no coat on, just her normal clothes with a blanket over her to get her from the house to the car and we take the blanket off once in the car.

janey1234 Tue 04-Feb-14 19:20:54

Agreed cavort, Miles gets hot too. Also read on mumsnet that the padding on big coats is misleading as you think they're strapped in tightly, but in case of (god forbid) accident the padding all compresses meaning the baby could come free shock. So Miles is practically put in naked now wink

Today will have made no difference Alex, she will be fine. Have some wine and try not to stress. I honestly think that a crying baby in the car is actually much worse for the parent than for the baby!

BlearyeyedLol Tue 04-Feb-14 22:02:12

Yep it happened to me too. And I cried more than her in the car!!!! Sometimes it can be helped so don't beat yourself up!! For me it was on the M40 coming back from Bicester village so you can imagine the guilt!!!
On other news L has pooed 5 times today!!!! 5!!! And really smelly too!! Is it teeth? Argh.

MotherOfCleo Tue 04-Feb-14 23:05:24

I've had a similar thing alex and think it upset me more than H, you did all you could and she knew you were their which is the main thing.

After moaning about Harveys lack of sleep I now feel awful. While bathing him his bcg scar burst and lots of green puss came out, we cleaned it and squeezed the rest of the puss out. H was fine and didnt seem bothered but as he sleeps on his side I wonder if this is what was bothering him last night? God I feel terrible. I'm also a bit pissed off as I took him to be weighed on Monday and showed it to 2 hv's who said it looked fine....shows what they know!

MotherOfCleo Wed 05-Feb-14 00:04:57

Also, though of another apres birth plus for merk......the ability to only pee a few times a day, rather than a few times an hour! That was one of my favourite realisations in the first few days grin

Quodlibet Wed 05-Feb-14 01:21:13

Oh Alex how horrible. I agree it can't have harmed her though. W had a meltdown in her pram yesterday and I ended up trying to walk down the road with a screaming baby under one arm and pushing the pram with the other as I couldn't cope with watching her cry...of course it then meant it took an age to get anywhere and in the end I put her back in, crying, and she went to sleep. It is horrid though.

We have been having bedtime meltdowns here. She is clearly really tired but ends up clawing her face and flapping arms getting really unhappy and overwrought. Even if I get her to stop crying she will lie in her cot flailing and rubbing her face and waking herself up every few seconds. Anyone got any ideas why? Or is this just part of a 'leap'? She has recently started discovering how to use her hands to rub her face and suck her fist so I wonder if it's connected. I've tried getting her to sleep earlier but the only thing that's working to get her off currently is scratch mitts on and me lying beside her with a hand on her tummy (and occasionally restraining flailing arms) shushing her for ages to get her to drop off. It also means we can't put her to bed anywhere other than her bed at the moment in the evening as it takes so long to get her off and if she wakes up it means repeating the process...

Cavort Wed 05-Feb-14 03:38:10

Quod some babies (E being one of them) just don't like the feeling of going to sleep and will fight it with all their might, even if they are completely knackered. It sounds like W is starting to do this. I think you are doing the right thing in comforting W to sleep and making getting to sleep a pleasant experience for her and if she is like E she will just get better as she gets older.

Ah, I also remember the days of walking with a crying E in one arm while pushing the empty pram with the other. It didn't last long, I think she had grown out of it by a few months old.

Alexandra6 Wed 05-Feb-14 04:55:07

quod I can't help as I still have to feed S to sleep or use a dummy, so I think it sounds good that W will be shushed and comforted to sleep if you see what I mean. Hopefully she'll be good at self settling eventually even if she's struggling now. Does she like being swaddled? S doesn't but some do and that's meant to help control their arms.

As I'd been told some babies sleep through after their vaccs, I really got my hopes up about tonight. S was sleeping really well after a very fussy evening - DH on the other hand woke me up going to the loo at 3am and then woke all of us up at 4.30am when his phone slipped from wherever he'd put it and fell on the wooden floor. Really snapped at him, lack of sleep must be turning me into a bitch but it was annoying! He was sent to the spare room but we've made up with nice texts since, feel a bit bad though still a bit unreasonably pissed off blush

HazleNutt Wed 05-Feb-14 07:22:09

every sodding hour and sometimes also half-hourly. Awake. Last night. Not funny. Can't form coherent sentences.

MotherOfCleo Wed 05-Feb-14 08:37:01

Oh hazel that sucks!!! sad sad Beyond gutted for you. Why do these little sleep stealers do it to us?!? Thankfully H had a better night, down at 11, up at 3, 5.20, 7 an 8.30.

BlearyeyedLol Wed 05-Feb-14 09:11:23

Hazle does he have any teeth yet? I'm told babies become a lot better once they cut through. I don't actually believe it though!
Over here dh had her until 2 am so I had 4 hours sleep. Then had her in bed with us and she had boob on tap. The little monster is now asleep so breakfast will be delayed as I'm going to have a nap too!

MotherOfCleo Wed 05-Feb-14 09:28:01

H has his 2nd jabs today, hope the oral one doesnt mess up his tummy again! Also have my first post natal class today, no idea what to expect!

Quodlibet Wed 05-Feb-14 09:41:43

Hazel that is beyond shit, no idea how you function. Is he feeding every time or could your DH get up with him?

Cavort it's strange because she will happily go to sleep in the day, on me or in her pram, but in the evenings and now overnight we are getting this flailing/face clawing.
Can you lot reassure me - if at night she is fed, dry, I have attempted winding her and I put her down and she doesn't cry but just lies there wriggling and grunting and squeaking, am I alright to leave her to fall asleep eventually or should I be doing something? Part of me thinks: she's not crying so must be fine, but then I feel guilty going back to sleep while she is awake and looking unsettled. Or is there something else I should be trying?

Cavort Wed 05-Feb-14 10:22:41

I was just about to launch into a moan about a crap night last night but after reading yours Hazle ours really wasn't that bad in comparison. Is V hungry at all of those wakings or can/does your DH do some of them? If DH is a heavy sleeper can you swap sides with him so he is closer to V and more likely to wake up? I can't imagine the torture of a day at work after a night like that brew brew brew flowers

Cavort Wed 05-Feb-14 10:23:42

Quod if you are lucky enough to have an awake baby who does not disturb you then yes, enjoy some lovely sleep while she is awake!

Alexandra6 Wed 05-Feb-14 10:45:25

God hazle that's rough sad thanks

mother I said no to the oral vaccine, she had both set of jabs but the nurse gave me the option on oral and mentioned it upsets the gut, and asked if S has a gut problem. I said she does have wind/reflux/tummy issues so I turned it down and said I would research what rotovirus is and weigh up whether she needs it or not. Her reflux really flared up yesterday and this morning so I'd prefer to leave that one unless it's a silly mistake. Let me know if anyone knows anything about that vaccine please.

HazleNutt Wed 05-Feb-14 11:55:55

thanks, I'll manage. lol yes he has 2 teeth, but of course it could be more coming out.
He usually wants a feed or sometimes just a little rocking and is asleep again in minutes - unfortunately if I just leave him, he gets louder and wakes himself up entirely.
That's why DH can't really do much - if V was like a friend's baby who was up for several hours every night, then sure I'd kick DH out of bed to deal with it. But in our case I'm awake anyway, so not efficient to wake DH too, who would definitely not get V back to sleep as quickly.
He will go to his own room tomorrow night, so then DH will help more.

Quod if she's otherwise fine and just squeaking then it's absolutely fine to let her squeak. V does his moaning and grunting every time before his daytime naps, usually falls asleep in a few minutes.

alex you said you want to see if dairy makes a difference, what do you think?

HazleNutt Wed 05-Feb-14 12:08:22

oh and he's now 73 cm and quickly growing out of the car seat, so we have to get a new one soon. cavort you have been checking out the Sirona as well - have you figured out how you are supposed to switch it between 2 cars? At the moment we have an isofix base in each car, so it's easy to click the carseat in. But I have not seen Sirona bases for sale separately, so you're supposed to istall the base every time you switch cars? Or do people normally buy a separate seat for each car?

Alexandra6 Wed 05-Feb-14 12:15:48

Really don't know on the dairy hazle - reintroduced it last week and had a settled wkend and lovely day on Monday, crap day yesterday. I'm not sure how long it takes to work through my system etc so I'm just trying not to eat too much, every day, and see how we get on over time.

I thought V was in his own room now, did you move him back in with you for a while?

Cavort Wed 05-Feb-14 12:24:44

Funnily enough Hazle I have just ordered a Sirona this morning for delivery tomorrow.

During the reading up I have done on the Sirona, I have seen a couple of customer reviews saying that despite being quite heavy it is easily swapped between cars so we're just going to see how we get on with it. We did intend to buy 2 isofix bases for the Cabriofix but never got round to it so have spent the last 7 months swapping one isofix base between 2 cars and it really isn't much hassle, just takes a few seconds so FX the Sirona is the same.

HazleNutt Wed 05-Feb-14 12:34:42

his room was wallpapered and DH is putting the furniture together as we speak, but we have not moved him (V, not DH) in there yet.

What colour did you get cav? and 2013 or 2014 model? I can't see any difference besides fabric (and price) between those two.

Cavort Wed 05-Feb-14 12:38:03

There was so much out of stocks everywhere and I couldn't be bothered to phone around so I just bought a Charcoal Black one from Mamas and Papas. Surely black is black, how much variation can there possibly be? grin

HazleNutt Wed 05-Feb-14 12:58:32

apparently thre's also pure black, so hopefully E does not mind grin

HazleNutt Wed 05-Feb-14 12:59:02

Hm I can't decide between blue and red - DHs car is red, mine is blue..

ZombiesAreClammyDodgers Wed 05-Feb-14 13:08:46

hazle that's horrible. If it's teething have you tried teething gel?
DD woke up at two thirty and would not settle. Teething.
We searched for the calpol like crazy people (me holding her, as that was the only way she would stop crying) and couldn't find it. DH grumbled that he was sure I gad thrown it away after reading in the Daily Fail about some link between calpol for babies younger than 12 months and asthma. (I am suggestible and paranoid but not silly enough to throw away calpol!!) Of course DH had kept it safely tucked away on the windowsill on his side of the bed (which I discovered mid morning today).
Anyway we are now stocked up on teething gel for the night. Let's see what it brings!

BlearyeyedLol Wed 05-Feb-14 13:13:32

So I take it the sirona is the best option according to which? I have been thinking about it too and was gonna ask you ladies for advice!
How much is it cav? Kiddicare have t for £375? Blimey!!

HazleNutt Wed 05-Feb-14 13:21:35

I don't think it's teeth at the moment, he does not seem to be complaining. Growth spurt maybe?

Yes Sirona got good reviews. It's 400 eur over here, so �330.

Cavort Wed 05-Feb-14 13:22:58

Hazle my main opinion was that I wanted a dark one so I hopefully don't need to wash the cover as often lazy, but we have one white and one black car both with black interiors so getting a black one is a no brainer here.

Lol the Sirona is marginally the best ERF seat according to Which? There are a couple of others with similar scores but none of them are cheap. angry Of course, if you are not fussed about ERF then there are loads of cheaper group 1 seats but with tests showing ERF being 5 times safer in the event of an accident my paranoia will not allow me to buy a forward facing seat.

HazleNutt Wed 05-Feb-14 14:08:32

DH voted for red here, has been ordered. Expensive, but should last a few years now. I also want an ERF and I like the swivel that Sirona has, way easier to get baby in and out.

Alexandra6 Wed 05-Feb-14 19:49:54

Just a quick update on a waxing appointment with a baby - mission accomplished wink All went well apart from when she kicked the lady doing the wax whilst lying across my chest

Looking forward to our first swimming class tomorrow. S is really cranky again today and choking/wheezing loads but I read jabs can make reflux flare up so it could be that.

HazleNutt Wed 05-Feb-14 20:10:39

not my day here. I'm sleepy and keep bumping into things and dropping everything, but that's just a minor annoyance. V would not eat his veggies, actually spit them out. Then refused yogurt as well. Ok, took a break, played a little. Now he decides that he actually likes yogurt, ate the whole thing. So put him to bed, fed some milk, he was almost asleep and then..threw the whole dinner up. Sigh. Babies.

BlearyeyedLol Wed 05-Feb-14 21:56:48

Omg hazle you do deserve a medal!
I'm tired just thinking about your day!
Question on the car seat thing- what does the sirona have that justifies the price? I (think) I have seen other erf ones for under 200? Am I looking wrong? I'm happy to pay the price tbh but need to convince dh it's the right thing to do grin

ZombiesAreClammyDodgers Wed 05-Feb-14 22:13:38

ignoramus asks what's ERF?

ZombiesAreClammyDodgers Wed 05-Feb-14 22:14:41

Ah lightbulb moment. Extended rear facing!!

Cavort Wed 05-Feb-14 22:18:04

Like Hazle, it was the 360 degree rotation which ultimately sold the Sirona to me. It's going to be so handy to be able to turn the seat 90 degrees to get E in and out of it.

Lol Which? have only tested 9 ERF seats so probably isn't a definitive list, but their results are as follows..

Cybex Sirona - 76% - £400
BeSafe iZi Kid X3 Isofix - 70% - £320
Britax Max-Fit - 69% - £275
BeSafe Izi Combi X3 Isofix - 62% - £350
Recaro Polaric Isofix - 60% - £205
Britax Max Way - 31% - £215 - Don't Buy
Volvo Convertible - 28% - £158 - Don't Buy
Joie Stages - 26% - £130 - Don't Buy
Axkid Kidzofix - 0% - £365 - Don't Buy

The Cybex Sirona child car seat is an eye-catching combination car seat for children from birth up to 18kg (approximately four years old). It can be used as an extended rearward-facing seat to 18kg or changed to face-forwards when your child reaches 13kg. Unusually, older children are held in place by an impact shield, rather than a harness. Some extended rear-facing seats can be a bit cramped for older kids We sent it to our lab to find out if the Sirona has plenty of space.

The Cybex Sirona is a good extended rearward-facing seat. If your child doesn't like facing backwards, it's also an excellent Group 1 forward-facing child car seat. It's the highest-scoring combination Group 0+/1 seat we've tested,and worth considering, but narrowly misses the marks required to be a Best Buy.

What is it?
A combination Group 0+/1 child car seat for babies from birth to 18kg (approximately four years). It's used rearward-facing from birth to 13kg, at which point you can either leave it rearward-facing, which reduces the strain on the head and neck in a crash, or turn the seat around on the base and use it forward-facing.

It's installed on a base that uses Isofix mounts to attach to the car. The Isofix base has a support leg to stop the seat pivoting forwards in a crash, which may make it unsuitable for use in some cars that have underfloor storage compartments or limited back-seat leg space.

You can't install it in your car with the adult three-point seatbelt.

The baby is restrained by a five-point harness with a one-pull adjustment strap when they are rearward-facing.

But if you turn the seat forward-facing you use an impact shield instead. This curved foam slide-in wedge fits snugly across the child's tummy and is held in place by buckles on either side of the shield. The child rolls forward around it in a crash, which reduces the strain on their neck.

How safe is it?
The Sirona is essentially two car seats in one. It scores 73% when used as a Group 0+ and 1 rearward-facing seat, providing excellent front-impact protection and good side-impact protection.

It's also good when used as a Group 1 forward-facing seat for older children, providing excellent front and side-crash protection, it scores 78% in this mode.

It's a good design for safety - the seat sits firmly on the car's seat and the harness/impact shield is in a good position on the child. Head support is good.

Is it easy to fit the seat?
The instructions and warning labels are clear and very easy to understand, and there's little danger of installing the seat incorrectly if you follow the instructions.

It's easy to install, although very heavy. It weighs 15kg, so is best left in the car. Green indicators show when the Isofix connectors are correctly attached.

You can't turn the seat forwards without storing the harness.

It's easy to buckle your child in using both the harness and the shield.

Is the seat comfortable?
It's well-padded and creates a good sitting position for infants - who should not sit too upright - and older kids. You can also recline it to give older children a more comfortable sleep.

But the view from the seat is a bit limited and the leg support is uncomfortable for older children when it's rearward-facing.

Is there anything else I should know?
The seat cover is easy to remove and machine washable, and the finish quality on the seat is good.

Should I buy it?
This is a good child car seat and certainly worth considering. Although expensive, it should last you a long time and keep your child facing rearwards for longer, which many parents are keen to try.

Please remember that not all car seats fit in all cars. We recommend that you check how well this seat fits in the cars you will use before you buy it.

Do you already own this child car seat? If you do, click the Customer views tab - above the picture - and tell us what you think of it.

Pros: Extended rearward-facing seat, excellent good safety score as a Group 1 and Group 0+ seat, excellent head support, good seating position, good finish quality, machine-washable cover

Cons: Limited view for babies, heavy, uncomfortable leg support for older kids in rear-facing

BlearyeyedLol Thu 06-Feb-14 07:12:13

Thanks cav that is very useful. Can I be a pain and ask you to post the reviews for the second and third ones on that list please????
It's all so complicated isn't it!
I'm not sure I necessarily need the rotation though of course it would be nice. I'm wondering if the next two have better views for baby! Ta gringrin

Cavort Thu 06-Feb-14 08:50:02

Yes no probs Lol, I will do it just as soon as I can be arsed to get up. grin E and me are having a lazy morning and haven't got out of bed yet. blush E is chewing on the remote and has managed to change the channel from BBC News to Cbeebies, which of course was a total flook but made me laugh.

MotherOfCleo Thu 06-Feb-14 09:07:47

Haha cav that made me smile. grin

Me and H are having a lazy morning too. He had his 2nd jabs yesterday, he was clingy and whingy for a few hours but then just slept for ages. Between 5pm and midnight he was probably awake for an hour and a half. Then put him to bed at midnight, he woke at 4, 5.30, 7 and is still asleep now. That's a crazy amount of sleep in a 12 hour period! I'm not complaining though, at least he's not awake and whingy like last time.

HazleNutt Thu 06-Feb-14 09:11:12

I was just checking what Swedish websites recommend, as scandinavia is really big on ERF seats - put an under 4-year old in forward facing there and people will look at you like you only feed them fruit shoots and greggs.

Interestingly the Volvo Convertible is recommended as best buy.

Other recommended seats are
Maxi Cosi Mobi
Concord Transformer T
Britax Hi-Way
BeSafe iZi kid X3
Brio Zento
Akta Graco Cosmic Comfort S

As the BeSafe Izi is on both lists, I can translate what Swedish equivalent of Which says:

Seat is deep, very soft and supportive, so even small children sit comfortably. With a handle under the seat, the seat can be adjusted to 5 different positions, 1 more than MaxiCosi Mobi. Seat is luxuriously ventilated and high enough for the child to have a nice view. X3 has a new headrest that can be adjusted to 8 different positions depending on child's size. Shoulder belt follows the adjustment automatically, smart! There are magnets in the side, meaning that the belts remain open when getting the child in and out, which is very helpful.

Installing is advanced, but very stable, so the seat is rock solid. At 14 kilos, it is heavy, but otherwise relatively small and compact, but requires a lot of room lenghtwise (passenger seat must be adjusted forward quite a bit). Due to the heavy weight and complicated installation, it is not easy to move the seat between different cars. The fabric is easy to remove and wash, but a bit of a pain to put back, so this can be an issue when your child gets carsick. In some cars, stays very upright. Unfortunately is this seat only approver up to 18 kilos, which is definitely not good compared to other seats in our test, especially considering the high price.

HazleNutt Thu 06-Feb-14 09:15:21

And 2 other Swedish testing websites voted the iZi Kid X3 as the best, so you might want to take a look at that.

Cavort Thu 06-Feb-14 09:53:25

When you stop using the Group 0+/1 Besafe Izi Kid X3 Isofix as an infant carrier, your child can remain facing the rear until they reach 18kg (about four years old). Travelling rear-facing means your child should be better protected in a front crash. We find out whether the Izi Kid X3 achieves this.

Travelling rear-facing means your child should be better protected in a front crash. This seat is secured using the Isofix mounts to secure the seat rearward facing. This seat is virtually identical to the Izi Combi X3, but unlike its stable-mate, the Kid X3 cannot be used forward-facing and cannot be secured using the adult seatbelt.

Protection in a front crash is good at four stars, and this score is matched for its protection in the side impact test.

Fitting and using the seat
The instructions are clear and installation is very easy using the Isofix mounts. Overall ease of use is good and the chances of getting it wrong are low.

The large shell makes this seat very bulky, so you might struggle for space in the average medium car. And as it is a rear-facing seat, a tall three-year-old may struggle for leg room. This seat weighs a hefty 16kg, so it isn't well suited to moving from car to car on a regular basis.

Overall rating
This seat scores strongly in most areas, but falls short of the overall requirements to earn our Best Buy recommendation.

Updating our tests
We changed the car body we use for testing in 2011, to more accurately reflect the current typical family car seatbelt layout and design. We carried out some repeat testing, to ensure that previous tests shown online are broadly comparable to the current ones. However, such a significant change means we can't make absolute comparisons.

This result is from our 2011 tests.

Do you already own this child car seat? If you do, click the customer views tab - above the picture - and tell us what you think of it.

Pros: Excellent front crash protection, good side crash protection, easy to use, rearward-facing right up to 18kg

Cons: Misses the Best Buy grade, bulky and heavy, expensive

Cavort Thu 06-Feb-14 09:54:38

The Britax Max-Fix is an extended rearward-facing child car seat for children up to four years old. This can protect them from more severe head and neck injuries in a crash. Extended rear-facing child car seats can be a bit uncomfortable on a child's legs, so how does the Max-Fix compare? We sent it to our lab for crash testing to find out.

This is a satisfactory child car seat, but as with other rear-facing seats the mediocre leg support and view from the seat let it down a bit. It provides good protection in a front-impact crash but its side-impact protection is only rated as satisfactory, not high enough to make it a Best Buy.

What is it?
A Group 0+/1 child car seat for children from 9-18kg (nine months to approximately four years old).

The child is restrained by a five-point harness with a one-pull adjustment strap to make it easy to tighten.

It's an extended rearward-facing seat, that's installed using the car's Isofix points and two support legs, one to position it on the car seat correctly and another that braces the child seat against the floor and prevents it pivoting in a crash.

The support leg may make this seat unsuitable for use in some cars that have underfloor storage compartments or limited back-seat leg space.

How safe is it?
The harness sits in the right place on your child, the head support is excellent and the Max-Fix sits firmly on the car's seat.

In our crash tests front-impact protection is good but the side-crash protection is only average.

Is it easy to fit the seat?
The instructions and warning labels are very easy to understand and there is little danger of installing the Max-Fix incorrectly.

But the seat is very heavy and takes up a fair bit of space in the back seat.

Is the seat comfortable?
Yes and no; the seat has excellent padding, is spacious and creates a good seating position for comfort and safety for the child.

However, the leg support is uncomfortable, particularly for older children and the child's view out of the car is limited.

Is there anything else I should know?
The finish quality of the seat is excellent and the covers are easy to remove and machine washable.

In 2011, we changed the car body we use for testing to more accurately reflect the current typical family car seat belt layout and design. We carried out some repeat testing to ensure that previous tests shown online are broadly comparable with the current ones. However, such a significant change means we can't make absolute comparisons.

These results are from our 2013 tests.

Should I buy it?
As with all rear-facing seats there are some issues with comfort for your child. Crash protection is reasonable but not as good as our Best Buys.

Pros: Good front-crash protection, good harness position and head support, easy to install, spacious seat with good padding, easy to clean

Cons: Average side-impact protection, some comfort issues. Pricey

Cavort Thu 06-Feb-14 09:55:29

The Volvo Convertible child seat is secured using the adult seat belts and aims to cater for children between nine and 25kg (from about one to seven years old), travelling rearward-facing up to 18kg (around four) and forward-facing thereafter.

Its design comes from Britax's Nordic range, and it was subsequently launched as a Volvo seat available through UK Volvo main dealers. For group 1 it is installed rearward-facing or forward-facing, and for group 2 use, it fits forward-facing.

In rearward-facing Group 1 mode, it scores an acceptable three stars for front and side crashes, while for forward-facing Group 1 and 2 modes, the front crash score drops down to a poor two stars.

Fitting and using the seat
Unfortunately, in trying to cater for different uses, it makes too many compromises. The Volvo Convertible is really difficult to install, and even the best seats at protecting children in crashes can be compromised if they are incorrectly installed. In this case we believe the risk is unacceptably high.

If you do manage to install it correctly, buckling the child in the seat is relatively straightforward, but the seat takes up a lot of space which can cause problems in smaller cars.

The seat is nicely finished and offers good head support, but leg support could be better, particularly in rear-facing mode. The seat cover is handwash only.

Overall rating
The seat scores 41% and 45% in its two forward-facing modes, but achieves just 29% overall in rearward-facing Group 1 mode.

The strong likelihood this seat will be incorrectly installed, particularly in its rearward-facing mode, and its poor front crash performance in forward-facing modes, even if installed correctly, mean we have no option but to recommend you Don't Buy this seat.

Updating our tests
We changed the car body we use for testing in 2011, to more accurately reflect the current typical family car seatbelt layout and design. We carried out some repeat testing, to ensure that previous tests shown online are broadly comparable to the current ones. However, such a significant change means we can't make absolute comparisons.

This result is from our 2009 tests.

Do you already own this child car seat? If you do, click the customer views tab - above the picture - and tell us what you think of it.

Pros: Buckling up easy, good padding, good finish quality

Cons: High front crash loads, unacceptable risk of incorrect installation, takes up a huge amount of space, removing and cleaning the seat cover is complicated

Alexandra6 Thu 06-Feb-14 09:58:57

Love the sleep we got after the vaccs too! Although I'm taking the rough with the smooth as S has been really refluxy since Tues. When did yours stop being whingy after vaccs? S cried lots yesterday and she was doing loads of the choking/wheezing and cottage cheese sick.

BlearyeyedLol Thu 06-Feb-14 10:03:33

Thanks a million cav, and thanks hazle for the translation. Bottom line is I have no clue still!! Might weir until you two start using yours and see if you like it as I reckon we still have a couple of months at least in our current seat. Mind boggling!!!!
It's official. L will not sleep alone. If with us and our bed she is an angel. If not she is a little terror. Currently sleeping next to me!

HazleNutt Thu 06-Feb-14 10:15:37

sorry the link didn't copy correctly, you need to google B�st i test bilbarnstol
They say about Volvo (interestingly no mention about being difficult to install):

Britax Multi-Tech, also sold under the name Volvo Convertible

Britax Multi-Tech is an excellent child seat and our best in test. It is maybe not so deep, but offers excellent sitting comfort, as headsupport is very good and side supports are adjustible. An important advantage is that the head support can adjusted to give an extra 5 cm height compared to other seats - meaning that even tall children can sit rear facing for a longer time. This means the seat is also your best choice if it is meant to be used by several children.

It takes quite a lot of space, in some cars the seat will be quite upright and in others will not leave too much room for child's legs. You can only adjust the angle during installation and not during driving.
It is installed with anchoring belt, seat belt and support leg. Cover washable, but a little difficult to get back on. Fits perfectly into most medium sized cars. Volvo sells the same seat under its own brand mane, with a lot higher price.

Cavort Thu 06-Feb-14 10:21:34

Alex E was a bit grumbly for a couple of days after each set of jabs.

Lol do you want any reviews or scores for forward facing Group 1 seats?
Our Sirona has just been delivered so will let you know how we get on with it after I have made DH install it later.

My friend's first DD would not sleep anywhere other than her parents bed pretty much as soon as she was born, so in the interest of actually achieving some sleep they just went along with it. Then one day when she was about 11 months my friend said she 'just knew' she was ready to sleep elsewhere, tried her in her cot and she slept soundly and has been happily sleeping there ever since.

HazleNutt Thu 06-Feb-14 10:28:44

lol whatever works - if you get some sleep co-sleeping then go for it. They will all move out of parents' bed at some point.

I think we will try to put V in his own room this evening, wish me luck.

Alexandra6 Thu 06-Feb-14 11:03:06

Good luck hazle This baby whisperer programme I watch in the early hours keeps banging on about PUPD, a million times if necessary, and they soon sleep better.

Reflux is such a bastard. S is crying because she's hungry, then drinking a bit, gagging and legs going rigid, then screaming in pain because it hurts, and we're both covered in cottage cheese angry

Alexandra6 Thu 06-Feb-14 11:06:38

Just read that back and it sounded like I was one of those idiots people who give you the answers to baby probs in a matter of fact way as if it's simple! Was just mentioning PUPD as I wondered if it's worth trying as a technique during the night and during the day for naps to encourage them to sleep on their own. Looks like it takes the patience of a saint though.

BlearyeyedLol Thu 06-Feb-14 11:31:58

Alex what is PUPD???
Thanks cav but I will get rear facing as well. It looks like the only downside is lack of view so I will just have to buy a few more toys!!!
I worry about co-sleeping cause dh is a very heavy sleeper and I'm always worried he will crush her. But I'm slowly getting better at it and started having her on the other side of the bed - and leaving 3 pillows on the floor in case she rolls over!
Mil says we've spoilt her from birth and that's why she is such an attention seeker. She also says L is manipulating us. Seriously angryangry

Cavort Thu 06-Feb-14 11:45:06

It's Pick Up Put Down Lol, also known as common sense. smile We have always done loosely similar with E. When baby is upset and refusing to sleep pick her up until she calms down and then put her down when she is calm. If she gets upset again repeat as many times as necessary.

Ahhh another sound nugget of advice from a MIL. Do you think they all attended the same talking-out-of-your-arse classes? grin

Alexandra6 Thu 06-Feb-14 11:46:24

angry yes my MIL sometimes makes comments like that - she's crying for attention, just wants sympathy, be careful because they're smarter than you think etc.

PUPD is pick up, put down. cav isn't that how you encouraged E to sleep on the bouncy seat during the day? It's where when they cry, you simply pick them up, pat gently, put down. And keep repeating as they cry. In the programme she makes the dad do it so the baby doesn't think milk is coming and sometimes they have to do it a hundred times the first night! I just don't get how they know the baby doesn't need more milk it it's waking at night? The baby in the programme was waking ten times though.

Cavort Thu 06-Feb-14 11:47:30

I believe Hazle's perfectly normal baby problem is similar to ours though in that we don't have any trouble getting them to sleep on their own, it's getting them to stay asleep that's the issue.

Alexandra6 Thu 06-Feb-14 11:48:21

Cross post cav but I always offer S the boob rather than PUPD!

Cavort Thu 06-Feb-14 11:57:54

I think that's the right approach Alex. S will change and probably feed less as she gets older - even if she wakes a million times I rarely feed E more than twice per night as I can tell the difference between a hunger waking and a PITA waking where she just wants some hand holding to get back to sleep. smile

BraveLilBear Thu 06-Feb-14 13:34:17

Afternoon all.

Update on the being knackered bloodtests - apparently all normal... apart from a Vitamin B12 anomaly that I need an appointment to find out what it is. Appt not til Tuesday so trying not to worry and not google 'pernicious anemia'.

Seems fairly straightforward to sort out tho so fingrrs crossed.

Sorry about your grim night (s) Hazle H has been difficult lately but nowhere near as bad as V! Really hope having his own room starts easing things.

Mother what on earth is a post-natal class?! Am intrigued!

The car seat talk is interesting - I take it that you need to buy the base on top? Need to start saving I think! smile

HazleNutt Thu 06-Feb-14 13:41:53

brave depends, the Sirona comes with base.

lol actually the view is better from rear-facing, they can see out of back window and also sides. With forward-facing, they pretty much only see the back of the headrest.

Babies crying for attention - who would have though! Um, they are babies, if there's something bothering them then of course they cry. What exactly do your MILs expect them to do, send an email with a list of complaints?

As cavort says, no issues with going to bed here, touch wood. We put him down, he moans and grumbles a little and falls asleep. Does not care if we're not in the room. Just that he then wakes up again soon.

Alexandra6 Thu 06-Feb-14 15:31:40

Was he always like that (just going to bed alone after being put down awake I mean) or did he grow into it? Can you think of anything you did the encourage that?

A man came to fix a problem with our shower today and told me his two babies slept 8 hours straight through from two months in (same age as Sophia). I really must stop asking random strangers about their baby tips and routines, it's too depressing. And besides the poor guy was only there to do his job, not give me baby counselling.

HazleNutt Thu 06-Feb-14 15:40:01

He was always like this, I just have to watch for cues that he's sleepy and down he goes.
On the other hand, and I have complained about this before, if he is not sleepy then I cannot put him to bed. I was wondering if I'm damaging my baby, as all baby books claimed that a x-month old should not be awake for longer than y hours and should then be put to bed - well, good luck with that. With V, if he's not sleepy I can rock and pat an shush til I'm blue in the face and he would just look at me like hmm.

Alexandra6 Thu 06-Feb-14 15:45:24

No matter what cues Sophia gives, she still won't go down awake and settle to sleep. She could be yawning, stretching, rubbing her ears, putting on pyjamas and fluffy slippers...no matter what she does, I still can't get her to sleep in her bed without a feed and usually dummy! Still that I can live with, it's the reflux and screaming that get to me.

Off to her first swimming lesson now!

BlearyeyedLol Thu 06-Feb-14 16:48:14

Lol hazle I wish I had the guts to ask mil if she thinks L should send an email instead gringrin

MotherOfCleo Thu 06-Feb-14 17:23:44

bear, not to sure what the post natal classes are myself yet as I've only been to the intro one. My leaflet says that I have 6 classes 1)weaning 2)womens health 3)sleep, minor illnesses 4)baby massage 5)communication 6)safety (includes freebies like pram reflectors and cupboard locks). I think it's mainly to put you in touch with other local mums, so you feel less isolated. It was nice to hear of the trials and tribulations other mums are going through, everyone was amazed at my friends wonderous 12 hour sleeping baby, the hv laughed and said that was definitely not the norm and they didnt expect babies to sleep through until around 6 months. (hers slept through from 2 weeks)

MotherOfCleo Thu 06-Feb-14 17:32:13

alex, I just think babies are all different, 99% of the time H will go down when sleepy and lay quietly until he falls asleep, however every now and again and he will wake himself up and shout till I pick him up again. I do feed him at night before putting him down but he normally is put down awake. The post natal class was good in the respect that I've only really been worried about trying to get H to sleep through, rather than focusing on and appreciating the good things he does, for example I discovered that some of the mums would love their baby to settle like H does as they also struggle to put their baby down. It was also nice to hear other people struggled with bf, one lady had a baby like H who screamed at the sight of boob, she used nipple shields too and only managed to feed /express for 2 weeks, made me quite proud of my 9 weeks.

Alexandra6 Thu 06-Feb-14 18:55:23

That is true - S finds some things really difficult and struggles with self-settling and also her tummy probs, but she's lovely when it comes to playing and cuddling, and we're lucky I can still bf with no pain for example.

Water babies was brilliant - can't recommend it enough! She was so cute in the water, she only cried when they did the baby dunking for the first time (was scary for me too!) and she smiled and laughed when we first got in grin She passed out as soon as she got out of the pool and someone else's baby couldn't even stay awake in the pool!

HazleNutt Thu 06-Feb-14 19:37:43

V is sleeping in his own room, at least going to bed went without any complaints, we will see about the rest. He has a bit of stuffed nose though, so sounds like a little hippo, hope that doesn't wake him up.

janey1234 Thu 06-Feb-14 21:36:56

Ah yes, M fell asleep in the pool for the first lesson. Seems so long ago now sad he thrashes around splashing a screaming with laughter the entire time we're in the pool these days. Glad she enjoyed it. You've got all kinds of treats ahead - M was put through a hoop underwater today and we swam half the width of the pool underwater together too smile

Good luck tonight Hazle. And everyone in fact!

ZombiesAreClammyDodgers Thu 06-Feb-14 22:16:13

Ah we start swimming this week too!
Hoops underwater janey doubt my skills would extend to what M can do!

Quodlibet Thu 06-Feb-14 22:28:08

I can't wait to start swimming with W - can they start at 8 weeks? I'm not sure we've got Water Babies at our local - is there any reason (aside from nerves on my part) that I can't just take her to the under 5s open session in the hydro pool?

Cavort Thu 06-Feb-14 23:58:51

No reason you can't just take her to any pool Quod but i think baby swimming classes tend to be in warmer private pools. Our local council pool also has a small warmer pool which 32 degrees and is ideal for babies so maybe yours has too?

We go swimming with a franchise called Puddle Ducks, which is like Water Babies but cheaper. E also swims through hoops underwater. smile I can't link as on phone but they have a local class finder if you Google their website.

BraveLilBear Fri 07-Feb-14 03:08:44

I've taken H to a few Swim a Song sessions run by the council for £2 a time. Found a Waterbabies class that's run on Saturday mornings in a special school's hydrotherapy pool but was floored by the 8.50 session fee!

Will have a look for Puddle Ducks.

If you don't find a private pool, you can get neoprene wetsuit wraps to keep them warm - I use one with H as pool is 30. Added benefit - lots easier to hold!

Swim nappies are a bit of an art form too... but easier when you know how!

Alexandra6 Fri 07-Feb-14 03:44:11

Water babies is expensive (£150 for a ten week course here which S got for xmas from grandad, and I paid a load extra for one under water baby pic at the end!) but it's just great for doing activities and building your confidence. For example, first lesson the instructor dunked them under the water, which I don't know if I'd ever have been brave enough to do alone! Also they have little songs and stuff. They teach you a good technique of looking them in the eye and saying the babies name before splashing water over their head to get them used to knowing it's coming - so you say "xxxx, ready, go!" before putting some water over their head or dunking them. If I wasn't doing this course, I'd def still take them to the warmest pool I could find locally for swimming sessions myself. quod it's fine to start at 8 weeks, that's exactly how old S is.

She screamed like crazy in the car on the journey home again though, argh - I thought babies were meant to like car journeys! She had quite a good run of sleep though this evening so far, by our usual standards I mean so obviously not that good Hoping she'll go back down again now, fingers crossed.

HazleNutt Fri 07-Feb-14 07:28:58

hm I'm not really sure how it went. Good news is that he woke up only twice and slept til 7.30, that's better than he's done in ages. But both times he simply would not settle with DH. And had proper feeds when I went in, so I am thinking he might still be hungry?

BlearyeyedLol Fri 07-Feb-14 08:12:12

Water babies over here is 165 for 10 lessons!!! I use a school called baby loves swimming and pay 12 quid a lesson. It is expensive but like Alex says I've learned loads myself what to do with her and when we were on holiday I was confident enough to dunk her in the sea which was great!!
Think only thing to consider before 16 week jabs quod is the water temperature. L went at 11 weeks.
Slightly better night I suppose. In her room till 5 then a brief spell in bed then final hours in travel cot. A few wakings but I even managed some sleep grin

BraveLilBear Fri 07-Feb-14 08:33:53

Good sleeping V and L!

H had a Shocker - really difficult to get down, slept til 2 then wide awake til 430 - eventually down again at 5.


Am stunned at those waterbabies prices - are they 25 min sessions like here?

HazleNutt Fri 07-Feb-14 08:35:06

We went to Switzerland before and there they also did all kinds of exercises, dunking and whatnot. Then switched to France, which is more convenient and loads cheaper, but there is nothing happening, some instructor (who is probably not even baby swim instructor) walks around asking if we're ok and otherwise you're left to your own devices. If V didn't have the previous experience, we would have no idea what to do with him. So I agree that if possible, you should definitely go to an organised baby swim class first.

Alexandra6 Fri 07-Feb-14 09:00:29

Yep short sessions brave which would seem like a rip off if it wasn't for the fact that the babies are shattered by then, it's enough time for them before they kick off I reckon. I think it's well worth the money - still cheaper than a lot of adult gym memberships for example. It's a good thing to wish as a pressie too, that's what S did. I wouldn't pay that much for something like baby massage (am doing that course free).

Glad there were some decent sleeps around. 5.5 hours over here but her reflux wasn't too bad in the night, she's having a rough time this morning though. I'm going to need to feed her in public later which can be hard when she screams during or after - most babies love a feed! S does when she's having a good day and those satisfying milk coma feeds are bliss!

MotherOfCleo Fri 07-Feb-14 09:28:00

We start our water babies on the 20th, I made a decision to pay the ridiculously expensive amount (£140 for 10 classes here) as its the only expensive thing I'll do with him, also water seems to be one of his favourite things. My parents reimbursed me though which was nice and I told them they can come and spectate one week which they are excited about! grin

I took H swimming a few weeks back but had no idea what I was doing so decided classes were a better option. We dont have puddle ducks down here which is gutting!

H slept 12-3.30, then up again at 5.30 an 7.30, he had 6oz at 3.30 but was hungry again at 5.30 I tried to resettle with just the dummy .....greedy boy.

I'll probably do one other class a week with H, maybe rhyme time or something, maybe baby massage if he likes it at our postnatal class. We see lots of friends with babies so I dont want to make my life a big circuit of baby activities, think I'd go mad. wink

Alexandra6 Fri 07-Feb-14 10:25:34

Yeah S and I seem to have settled into a nice balance of one or two classes a week, seeing friends with babies, weekly NCT meet up and days for just the two of us where we watch trashy tv go for lunch and shopping.

HazleNutt Fri 07-Feb-14 10:27:35

Hm. I was worrying here how to get V to settle and reading the sleep topic on MN and..maybe I should stop complaining. The things you read there - babies up for hours and hours, screaming their heads off, only agree to sleep if you are in the room, can't be put down..wow.
Sure, some nights have been bad, but generally he does not need any assistance to fall asleep; if he wakes he just feeds and goes back to sleep without complaints; does not mind if we leave the room and there is no screaming. If he could just keep the 2 night feeding breaks, then that's actually quite good.

MotherOfCleo Fri 07-Feb-14 10:53:50

H just looked me in the eye as he pooed on my hand....twice. What a lovely good morning gesture! confused It bloody stunk too. Also looks like he has nappy rash for the first time, sudocremed him right up but wondered if a cloth nappy for a few hours might help rather than having synthetic next to his skin?

Yeah hazel I was amazed to learn at the postnatal group what other people were dealing with, H is a dream by comparison. blush

Cavort Fri 07-Feb-14 13:02:06

Well after last night I do feel I am a position to complain about E's lack of sleeping.

So, last night went like this...
8pm - in bed asleep.
9pm - briefly woke up, needed hand holding and shushing.
11.45 - woke for a feed, fell asleep feeding.
1.30 - 5.00 - WIDE A FUCKING WAKE!!! angry She went to sleep several times during this time and was visibly knackered and showing tired signs, but as soon as she fell asleep she woke up 5 minutes later. Eventually fell asleep feeding at 5am.
6.30 - woke up crying, shushed back to sleep.
6.35 - same again
6.40 - same again
6.45 - brought her into our bed for the first time ever and she slept until 8.00.

We have swimming on a Friday at 10.30 so she goes down later than normal for her nap, so she went to sleep at 11.40, woke after 40 minutes and needed shushing back to sleep, woke again 5 mins later, then woke again, so she has been napping for 1h 20mins so far and has woken up 3 times. angry

WTF has happened to our baby?!! angry sad shock biscuit

HazleNutt Fri 07-Feb-14 13:38:53

Yes Cavort, I would have to agree that you absolutely can complain. FX just an one-off? teeth? ((grasping straws))

MotherOfCleo Fri 07-Feb-14 14:48:11

wow cav please do complain! I'd be throwing my toys out the pram after a night like that sad here havewine and biscuit and some more wine actually maybe E should have the wine perhaps it would make her sleep

BlearyeyedLol Fri 07-Feb-14 16:55:33

Cav I'm afraid your baby is manipulating you and trying to get your attention! You've obviously spoiled her too and now she is broken like mine gringrin

Cavort Fri 07-Feb-14 16:58:31

Throw them where though Mother? It's not like there's much we can do about it other than just ride it out. Thank goodness DH is so good though, he split it with me even though he has loads on at work at the moment so instead of being a complete zombie today I merely just look and feel rough as fuck. smile Only a few days ago she was just waking up once at around 4.30 admittedly for over an hour and nothing has changed since. Who can work these damn babies out??? No sign of any teeth yet Hazle but would love one to pop through as an explanation! The Wonder Weeks says she is in the middle of an uncomplicated phase - WHATEVER!

Cavort Fri 07-Feb-14 17:00:47

Cross posts Lol but yes I have clearly ruined her and she is destined to grow up to be an entitled little princess. wink

During our shift changeover DH did dare to ask if I thought we should try some sleep training. I suspect after the look I gave him he won't be asking again.

MotherOfCleo Fri 07-Feb-14 20:16:59

cav I'd throw my toys all over, strop and feel sorry for myself for about 5 minutes wink then H would smile at me, my stoney heart would melt and I'd man up and get on with what basically equates to being awake for 40+ hours. Hope she sleeps for you tonight. Its my OHs one night a week of night duty tonight so fingers crossed I manage to catch up.on some sleep!

MotherOfCleo Fri 07-Feb-14 20:17:00

cav I'd throw my toys all over, strop and feel sorry for myself for about 5 minutes wink then H would smile at me, my stoney heart would melt and I'd man up and get on with what basically equates to being awake for 40+ hours. Hope she sleeps for you tonight. Its my OHs one night a week of night duty tonight so fingers crossed I manage to catch up.on some sleep!

HazleNutt Sat 08-Feb-14 08:09:51

V slept from 7 to 8 with feedings at 2 and 5, but otherwise not a sound. grin

Quodlibet Sat 08-Feb-14 09:18:20

Thanks for the swimming info all. I will look up some classes and try not to choke at the prices

My child is currently a little whinger who is apparently only happy to nap with a nipple actually touching her face. Yesterday she didn't really nap and was a crying grump all day, the day before that she slept like a log pretty much the whole day. I think it is a 'leap', and that the monumental discovery that she has got arms and legs is making her a bit frazzled, bless.

MotherOfCleo Sat 08-Feb-14 10:00:59

haha, quod that is quite a discovery.

B was a whingy whiny clingy child yesterday, was hard work. I think his teeth are on the move as he was chewing on anything he could get hold of, dribbling heaps and crying/whinging a fair bit, it was always the left side he was chewing on. Its sad to see them unhappy.

Cavort Sat 08-Feb-14 11:11:55

Good news Hazle, let's hope that going in his own room was the magic bullet V needed for a better nights sleep and means much better nights for you. smile

We had an improvement here on the previous night but still not great...
8pm - in bed asleep
10-midnight - wide awake
4.00 woke to feed
5.30 - briefly woke
6.45 - up for the day

While she was up 10-12 she seemed in some discomfort and was sick after I fed her (very unusual) so I am wondering if she is a bit under the weather. Seems fine during the day though.

janey1234 Sat 08-Feb-14 13:02:07

I'm not talking about sleep as I don't want to jinx anything or annoy anyone! Suffice to say what I now class as a bad night was a good night a month ago. Fingers crossed that moving other babies to their own has the same effect. And that it lasts over here - heard whisper of a 9 month sleep regression the other day shock sad

FWIW M has never, ever "fitted in" with wonder weeks. He's supposed to be coming out of a fussy period, but has been unusually pretty good sleep wise, whereas other times he's supposed to be at an easier stage and been a fricking nightmare a bit difficult.

M seems to be reducing the amount of milk he's having - are other babies doing this? I'm still only giving him two bottles of formula a day but he's definitely breast feeding less often. I guess this is a blessing, as since weaning he likes to stop feeding/eating (whether food or milk) to make really loud kissing noises, which is a bit embarrassing to say the least.

HazleNutt Sat 08-Feb-14 14:42:05

yes V is definitely breastfeeding less. I still try to feed him whenever I can though, as of course he does not want to hear anything about formula. Won't even drink the sweetened ones.

janey1234 Sat 08-Feb-14 15:47:36

Can you buy sweetened formula?! blush
Crap - am I buying it?!

HazleNutt Sat 08-Feb-14 16:26:09

I mean those cereal milks, they are really sweet, but he doesn't like those either.

MotherOfCleo Sat 08-Feb-14 21:12:41

Horrendous storm just knocked the power out, god it was so bloody dark! Thankfully they came back on after 2 or 3 minutes, was terrifying as H was in his chair and I couldnt remember how far away it was. Lights came on and the dog was sat right next to him grin so darn cute. Pooch is good with storms but this one was so loud it did make her and me a bit edgy, think the powercut was just too much. She's been glued to me since the power came back on. I've lit a fire just incase it goes out again, bloody hate powercuts.

Cavort Sun 09-Feb-14 11:10:55

E is still BFing with the same frequency but I think she is taking less milk at those feedings as I have noticed my boobs feeling fuller on occasions.

Night number 3 of atrocious lack of sleeping last night - she was awake for nearly 4 hours 12-4 and also woke up a few other times. angry angry FFS she can't even manage 4 hours awake during the day! angry

I just don't understand what's happened in the last 3 nights? We're not doing anything differently so it must be developmental but she's not learning anything noticeably new at the moment. She has never liked going to sleep ever since birth. Even as a newborn you could see the tired feeling starting to hit her and she would get upset because she didn't like it, but as she's got older she has got much better at going to sleep when she's tired so long as we put her to bed at the right times, but for the last 3 nights she has fought it with everything she has in the tank. She will still go to sleep ok when she's tired but then wakes herself up at the first opportunity and nothing we can do will get her back to sleep until she is so exhausted she can no longer fight the tiredness. Fucking hell, DH and I are absolutely fried and it's only been 3 nights! If this is a growth spurt/leap/regression it could go on for weeks! sad

Cavort Sun 09-Feb-14 11:12:03

Apologies for the moaning everyone. blush I genuinely hope all your babies are sleeping peacefully for you. smile

HazleNutt Sun 09-Feb-14 11:27:51

Moan away. I've read that they tend to have restless nights just before they start doing something new, so maybe there are some new skills she will show in the next few days?
In other news, V is definitely dropping feeds and I think I have a blocked duct now due to that hmm

Sleep isn't going so well here either, not as bad as a lot of you so I can't complain but certainly the worst she had been in a while. She's also taken to screaming from about 8-10pm, I think that must be more teeth related. All in all I feel pretty knackered. She's constantly pulling herself up now as well so between chasing after her crawling off and licking dog toys and watching like a hawk that she doesn't fall over and bang her head (which she's doing quite a lot) I need a break!

BlearyeyedLol Sun 09-Feb-14 17:01:09

Well I think I'm getting used to shit nights and suddenly waking up 6 times for a quick cuddle seems like a good one to me.
Question: L seems to have completely lost interest in food over the last 3 days. Even porridge which she loves she is now refusing. All she wants is boob. Should I be worried?

HazleNutt Sun 09-Feb-14 18:05:25

lol no I don't think there's anything to worry about, seems to be a very common problem. One reason could be teeth - on some days, V only agrees to use the really soft silicone spoons. or she could be tired of purees and wants to feed herself - have you tried finger-foods?

Cavort Sun 09-Feb-14 20:22:03

No idea if it's related to current shitty sleeping, but E is also not eating many solids at the moment either. A few mouthfuls and she's done. I wondered if she has sore gums but no sign of any teeth so far.

She wasn't particularly happy about going to bed so I think we're in for another bad night. sad

ZombiesAreClammyDodgers Sun 09-Feb-14 20:39:44

hazle sorry to hear about the blocked duct. I'm probably going to be facing that soon as I wean DD onto formula full time before starting work.
Teething is on full swing here and we are up like clockwork every night and cluster feed after that for a few hours (that's the only way she'll get to sleep!)
Has anyone hit gold with a decent underwired nursing bra? My Anita one is a bit hopeless- only a suggestion of support, despite the underwire.

HazleNutt Sun 09-Feb-14 20:43:35

zombies, nursing bras are overpriced and useless (and don't come in my size). What I've done is to get normal bras, like Freya and Fantasie ones, and converted them myself - it's really easy to do. Loads more choice.

BlearyeyedLol Sun 09-Feb-14 21:11:46

I have tried finger foods with not much success either - apart from a piece of naan bread in the curry house tonight grin
I think I will try more tomorrow. Maybe toast.
A friend of mine recommended sneaking porridge into her evening bottle of expressed. I did that tonight and she didn't notice the difference in taste. I will report tomorrow whether that made any difference in her shitty sleeping.

Alexandra6 Mon 10-Feb-14 05:08:40

Sorry about the rough nights sad I can say this without being smug because you all know I've had tough nights and will no doubt have them again soon, but S just slept for nearly five hours again which is great by crappy standards She got a new sleeping bag from the white company as a gift and is so snuggly in it.

However self settling just isn't happening! Put her down awake last two nights and she just won't sleep without boob or dummy (if she's in the mood for dummy). Honestly can't see her ever settling without them! I'm also reading the dreaded gina ford's sleeping routine and googling routines, as I'm still wondering if I should be trying to lay more groundwork now for later or whether that actually makes any real difference. A friend said to me that with her DS1 she followed gina ford roughly and they had a good routine from early on, with DS2 he has tummy probs/reflux and it's just a different kettle of fish and they couldn't establish a routine due to crying sessions some nights etc. So I don't know whether it's pointless trying to set good patterns now when she varies so much with good/bad nights and also still not sure if trying for an earlier bedtime would mean I'm not sleeping during her first best run of sleep?!

On bras, I really like my h&m nursing bras (didn't want to spend much on a nursing bra) - it's great for me while my boobs are shooting up and down in size daily but then I'm only a B/C cup so I just need comfy really.

Cavort Mon 10-Feb-14 11:57:24

Alex I personally think it's down to the individual baby's personality and temperament whether they will 'self settle' or not. I have worried about this in the past but have since done plenty of reading up on it (by non-biased authors without any books/advice to sell) and it's perfectly normal for a baby to want some assistance and comfort from their primary carer to help them get to sleep and they will just grow out of it as they get older. If you think a routine will work for you then no harm in giving it a try but I really wouldn't worry if S can't get herself to sleep. She is just a perfectly normal baby and they are all different. I have linked to these before but I think it's a great blog and very true Self-Soothing. and The Real Self Soothing Part 1. And Part 2. I really recommend you have a read to give some balance to what the sleep 'experts' are stating as facts without any evidence to back it up.

E woke crying every 45 minutes from 10pm onwards last night. sad

I went to bed at 9.30 in anticipation of another bad night so had managed a total of about 15 minutes sleep when she woke for the first time and then couldn't get back to sleep in between wakings. We had already agreed before bed that DH would do a shift for a few hours 2-5am if I hadn't managed any sleep before then so I could get some rest, but she just wouldn't settle for him (no problem usually) and I obviously couldn't sleep through the crying, so at 3.30 DH went to sleep in the spare room and I lay E on the bed next to me in the hope that she would settle better there. She still woke crying 3 or 4 further times but it was only for a few seconds as I could settle her straight back off being right next to her rather than trekking across the landing to her bedroom. In the end I think I managed about 4 hours broken sleep after being in bed for 10.5 hours. sad

She is also off her solids, lots of ear pulling, very moany/fussy but frustratingly no sign of a tooth yet. I gave her some Nurofen at midnight in the hope that it was teething pain and she would settle off for a few hours but it didn't seem to make any difference so maybe it's not teething? Hell knows what else it is though, she has always been a crap sleeper but this is taking the biscuit

HazleNutt Mon 10-Feb-14 12:12:26

Oh cav, poor you. There must be something bothering her by the sound of this. Could still be teeth, or stomach problems? You didn't offer any new foods before she got fussy?

Alexandra6 Mon 10-Feb-14 12:23:05

Every 45 mins! Really feel for you sad and more selfishly it's given me the fear about us getting to that age! Thanks for those links, I'll read them today. How does E sleep during the day? The dreaded gina ford has a table of max sleep drunk the day and S is only meant to be getting 3.5 hours sleep during the day so she can sleep well at night apparently. However that's a lot of entertaining her in between isn't it?!? Especially with S as she likes to be alert and busy/stimulated if she is awake.

On the plus side I've got a free day today so I'm trying to do a very rough sleep routine today and I thought I'd try her in her sleepyhead bed instead of on me for a midday nap as usually she only sleeps on me or in the pram during the day. Anyway she fell asleep with the help of her dummy and is asleep and not on me woop!

Alexandra6 Mon 10-Feb-14 12:37:45

On the down side I'm scared to move or even flinch as she might wake up. Hmm confused Still, surely it's good to get her used to sleeping on her own rather than on me, even if I also love her cuddly deep sleep naps on me?!

HazleNutt Mon 10-Feb-14 12:46:39

3,5 hours per day? That sounds very little. Whenever V has slept well during the day, he has also slept better at night.

Alexandra6 Mon 10-Feb-14 12:52:30

It does, doesn't it?

Doing her midday nap on her own isn't going well! She got about 15 mins before spitting out her dummy repeatedly, and despite yawning and looking tired, she's fighting sleep each time the dummy pops out! I'm gently putting it back on but not sure this is going to plan.

Cavort Mon 10-Feb-14 13:00:57

Hazle We're not doing anything different to normal and she hasn't tried any new foods. I don't think it's stomach issues as I wouldn't say she seems in any discomfort, she's just heartbroken when she wakes. Yes it could still be teeth (I'm hoping so) but a quick Google suggests it might also be a manifestation of separation anxiety (I don't think this as she was still waking up upset when sleeping right next to me), or night terrors and nightmares are apparently quite common at this age and would certainly explain the distress. Or it could even be the onset of a very early 9 month sleep regression which apparently usually presents itself anywhere between 8-10 months and going by her due date she is 7.5 months now.

Alex she is still going to sleep ok for her naps and at bedtime but looking at her on the monitor she is very restless and occasionally screams out even though she is still asleep, which is very unusual for her.

I don't think you should pay too much attention to how much daytime sleep GF reckons S should get. They are all so different I just don't see how she can advocate a one size fits all rule of how much sleep they need? Have a look at this evidence-based sleep chart. And this from ISIS. E has always fitted in with awake times recommended by these people though.

janey1234 Mon 10-Feb-14 13:23:20

M has always needed more sleep during the day than GF recommends. I guess you get to know your own baby and what they need? At 10-11 weeks, when we went on hol, M was v settled in his routine. He had a hour each morning, two at lunch, one in the afternoon, and then slept 7-7 with a dream feed at 10pm and he woke for a feed at around 4.30am. It was lovely. Then sleep regression hit a few weeks after, gah.

M always needed constant entertainment too. Hate to say it but it doesn't get any easier! shock

janey1234 Mon 10-Feb-14 13:24:57

Oh and cavort, poor poor you. I remember at the height of his 4 month sleep regression we had a few nights of M waking every 45 mins. It was absolute bloody hell. Hope you manage to get some sleep during the day today...

HazleNutt Mon 10-Feb-14 13:32:21

It might get easier - V is of course happy to be entertained, but also plays happily by himself. Sometimes I worry - in a PFB way - that he should want more attention from us, but my mum says I was the same and I turned out more or less ok.

ZombiesAreClammyDodgers Mon 10-Feb-14 15:14:57

hazle I've been letting DD sleep 3 to 3.5 hours on the day (not a GF style routine, just capping the number of hours) and till teething started she was sleeping through the night (ten to half six approx).

ZombiesAreClammyDodgers Mon 10-Feb-14 15:15:54

In the day of course, not on!
Though I'd hesitate to say a one size fits all. It worked for DD but babies are all their own people aren't they?

MotherOfCleo Mon 10-Feb-14 16:29:49

H actually slept 5 and a half hours in a row last night, can't remember the last time he did that! grin He managed to sleep through my OH snoring loud enough to wake the dead but not loud enough to wake his son it would seem and his dad throwing up the stupid amount of booze he drunk when we were round friends last night at 2am. I however didnt't so still had broken sleep!

H usually has around 45 minute naps at 11am, 1pm, 3pm and 5pm, the evening naps can be unpredictable. Yesterday he had all these naps but inbetween he had 5 people to entertain him, that is obviously not the norm, if that is what he needs to sleep well then I think unfortunately I am screwed! confused I guess watching me do chores is less exciting/tiring blush

MotherOfCleo Mon 10-Feb-14 17:57:01

I paid £20 for a mothercare spin travel system with a broken brake basically to try H in a different car seat, to see if he is more comfy and therefore doesnt cry so much. Huge success, he is sat happily in the car seat plus we've managed to unstick and remove the brake so I now have a second travel system. The spin is the predecessor to the orb and is basically identical. grin

ZombiesAreClammyDodgers Mon 10-Feb-14 20:54:39

Off topic- just realised all our BFPs have become our PFBs!!

MotherOfCleo Mon 10-Feb-14 23:49:33

when your baby is sleeping soundly and you have a chance for some peacful sleep why oh why does the OH have to start fu*king snoring?!?angry angry I love him dearly but right now I could smother the bastard.

ZombiesAreClammyDodgers Tue 11-Feb-14 02:32:29

mother also, not being able to silently creep on creaky floorboards is IMO a punishable offence grin

Alexandra6 Tue 11-Feb-14 03:27:45

Last night S fell asleep and DH was cuddling me and saying nice things - he was whispering but all I could think was "shhh don't make a sound!" Not sure how we're ever going to actually dtd if I'm that terrified of waking her so she won't settle again!

The routine didn't go to plan so I tried not to be disappointed and feel like a total failure We did bath, cuddle, into her sleepyhead in the front room at half seven. She actually slept in it for half an hour then wide awake. We took her up to bed at 9pm after a feed, and she was asleep by 10 but woke at half ten, think she had wind but fed her again. Then she just woke at 3am, again seems to be windy as doing high pitched cry - am giving her the boob but did try to get the wind up. If she goes back down until morning, I'll be happy but guess that depends on the wind.

I'll just do the same thing every night (bath, PJs at 7, into sleepyhead in front room) and hopefully over time she'll settle into it - although still wondering if I'm crazy for trying to move the sleep forward so it's out of sync with ours?!

MotherOfCleo Tue 11-Feb-14 06:43:44

alex, for her age that doesnt sound too bad. Just go with your gut re routine, you can always play with the times till you find what works. The woman taking my postnatal group suggested starting at 9 or 10 so that their best sleep coincides with yours, but do what works for you. smile

I am in shock, my broken child who would only sleep 2 or 3 hours before waking, slept 5 and a half hours solid yesterday night and 7 hours last night! grin I know it won't last but I'm loving this new sleeping infant I have. grin Is it part of being a mum to always second guess everything? We didn't bath him the last 2 nights and I wonder if that has anything to do with it, maybe a bath wakes him up too much? I dont think it does but it does make me wonder.

MotherOfCleo Tue 11-Feb-14 06:48:24

oh and zombies I totally agree re the creaky floorboards grin my OH has not got a light footed, stealthy bone in his body. He flushed our ensuite toilet twice with the door wide open, light streaming in onto H this morning before leaving for work and I told him if he woke H again I would happily throttle him! He is honestly the loudest human being I know. blush

Alexandra6 Tue 11-Feb-14 07:15:25

grin my DH is a heavy footed stomper too and can't seem to do anything in low volume, he's just loud by nature!

She's slept through from 3.30am and is still asleep at 7 (I've woken after a bad dream!) I'm actually more than happy with that as a night, so really this earlier bedtime and routine stuff is all about laying groundwork for good nights later, now that she's 9 weeks, as it worked well for janey and other friends starting it now. I might just do the same things at the same time but really try not to stress when it doesn't work. My NCT friends all seem to be struggling to develop routine and move bedtime forward and have the same dilemma of not wanting to miss sleeping during their best sleep so reassuring it isn't just me!

Hope you had a better night cav brew

MotherOfCleo Tue 11-Feb-14 07:27:02

With H I've discovered its what we do not the time we do it that is important alex. H knows its bedtime by what we do rather than what time it is if that makes sense so as long as we follow the same low lighting, change, sleeping bag, feed, bed routine it could be 10pm or 1am and he still goes down ok. historically we are lucky if he stays down for more than 3 or 4 hours but thats just my nocturnal child

Here cav, have a biscuit or biscuit biscuit biscuit biscuit for a sugar hit to go with you brew Hope E slept better!

janey1234 Tue 11-Feb-14 08:33:55

That sounds sensible Alex, try it, and if it doesn't work don't despair! As mother says I think half of it is just what you do so they at least know it's time to sleep even if they don't

I think we are teething here again. M woke up at 2 and 5 for a feed last night, which is a bad night for us now, and there was a little bit of bloody saliva on his sheet, I think from him scratching his gums sad Also, when I was giving him his bottle before bed he kept stopping feeding to chew on the muslin blush Hope they come through soon!

HazleNutt Tue 11-Feb-14 09:26:32

Not a great night here, for the first half of the night V was up every hour. He seemed to be troubled by his stuffed nose - once I had cleaned it, he slept fine. It's so cute how he wakes up babbling, quite happy to chat to himself.
Can I just mention that the people who write the instructions on those saline drops have obviously never seen a baby. "Gently support baby's head.." Ha. I'd like to see them gently supporting a baby who most certainly does not want to have things shoved up his nose.

He doesnt have a cold though, I think the air is just too dry. Will get a humidifier, hope that helps.

MotherOfCleo Tue 11-Feb-14 10:13:14

hazel my OH won't give H the nasal spray after spraying him in the eye last time he tried, he would most definitely agree with you wink