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The 6th Broadly Gemini Luxury Bus - this way ladies.

(994 Posts)
FrussoHathor Fri 09-Aug-13 17:14:41

Welcome aboard our 6th bus ladies.

FrussoHathor Fri 09-Aug-13 17:15:48

Spent ages trying to post a reply, the noticed the thread was at 1000. Goodness.

agnu trust your instincts. One thing I have learnt with dd2 and ds is that my instincts are usually right.
Was it a mw and not a lactation consultant that you saw today then.

I'd be so frustrated with your DH if he was mine, 11 weeks and he thinks you havent been careful about latch. (((Hugs))) and lots of them.

I think only you can decide where you go from here.
But if you want to convince that the cost will be worth it, then you could work out how much you could spent on formula for the next year. Does he know how upset you are?

Yes, to what frus said. Most providers aren't aware there are different types of tt and will only look for the front tie (the midwife I used to apprentice with was the same and didn't know to look for the other types). Trust your instincts and search for a second opinion!

FrussoHathor Fri 09-Aug-13 17:34:24

I agree bring the MW that checked frus jnr in hospital before discharge missed his TT and LT. And the GP missed his TT.
And on your side is the fact that you have successfully Breastfed before.
If you decide to push it, time is not on your side, I was told they won't snip it after 16weeks.

peardrop2 Fri 09-Aug-13 17:38:55

Thanks for sending me the link Frus!

Librarina Fri 09-Aug-13 17:46:50

Checking in, too tired to think.
Baby woke up at 5 by throwing up all over herself, my bed and me. She looked very confused then was sad cos she was wet.

Worst bit is that I think it's my fault cos I over fed her, I kept popping my boob in her cos I wanted to sleep!

FrussoHathor Fri 09-Aug-13 18:04:45

Don't worry lib I was doing that I ds every morning. Now he thumps me if he doesn't want it, so I change his bum, and go back to sleep.

AGnu Fri 09-Aug-13 18:21:12

Oh dear Lib, that doesn't sound like a fun way to wake up! sad

I wouldn't exactly call DS1's feeding "successful". He ended up being investigated for 'failure to thrive' & was put on high energy formula at 5m. I'm now convinced it was because he's got an undiagnosed PTT too. It's because his feeding was so disastrous that I know how feeding shouldn't be. This time it's worse!

I'm not sure if she's a lactation consultant or not. Her job title is Infant Feeding Specialist Midwife, as is the other lady who's on holiday. Other lady is definitely an IBCLC... Are those the right letters? confused

The cost of formula argument is the one I've used with my mum & will be pointing it out to DH tonight. I'm hoping I can convince DH to let me book an appointment with a private clinic sooner rather than later on the understanding that we can cancel it if being obsessive about the latch doesn't solve things. The last thing I want is to spend ages trying to convince him & then have to wait even longer for an appointment. DS2 is 2 months today so we've got a little time but not loads. I think private providers will do it later than NHS will though.

I'm wondering if we need to do anything about DS1's while we're at it. He's always been dribbly which apparently can be a PTT sign but I don't know how old a child has to be for it to be socially unacceptable for them to dribble constantly! confused I might wait until all his teeth have come in & see if it settles then.


Lorelei353 Fri 09-Aug-13 19:01:23

New bus! Thanks for the link frus.

agnu sorry to hear your appointment didn't go how you wanted it to. So frustrating for you. Good luck convincing your dh.

lib Ick. I've done they too - Over feeding because he wants to sleep.

ds is back to himself today after yesterday' s jabs although Calpol worked its magic last night.

So, little miss major barfed all over me again this morning. I think she just coughs a little too much after choking on some milk and it all comes up. It's really gross. Sorry you have to live through that too Lib and Lor.

Thanks for setting up the new thread frus smile

Took the boys to an indoor playground and there was an in-home daycare provider there with her crew and she had a 4 month baby girl with her in a stroller. She ordered a cheeseburger and was eating it and was just letting this poor baby scream and cry in the stroller. She had a bottle of milk sitting on the table and was just jiggling the stroller while she ate and refused to feed the poor thing. We're talking like 20 minutes-refusing to pick her up or try to console her. I was the next table over and was having let-down after let-down listening to this baby cry and my heart just breaking b/c she wasn't doing anything about it. I even offered to give the baby the bottle myself b/c M was sleeping in her carseat right next to me (the only time, go figure) and the woman just looked at me and said "she's fine". It was so distressing and makes me terrified to leave my kids with someone for fear that they could be left like that!

Annnnnnd she just upchucked on me again. This time it came without a choking warning, she was sleeping on me and just woke up to puke all down my shirt and then promptly fell back asleep. <big sigh> Let the elimination diet commence.

FrussoHathor Fri 09-Aug-13 20:56:28

Don't you just love that warm feeling running down your back bring frus jnr possets to various degrees after most feeds. I hear this wet gurgly noise and then bleugh.

peardrop2 Fri 09-Aug-13 22:12:17

Ewwww I don't like the warm feeling :-/ I've decided bolognase that's the culprit :-( Must be all the tomatoes in it!

FrussoHathor Fri 09-Aug-13 22:22:39

I don't like it either pear. I'm just ridiculously used to it, it's more of a familiar feeling.

peardrop2 Fri 09-Aug-13 22:49:37

I've sprinkled lavender drops on our bed sheets like a mad lady in hope that we get a better nights sleep tonight :-) my room smells like an old persons sock draw :-/

It really is something to be said about! Mmmm, nice. It's still the projectile-shooting-out-through-the-nose-and-mouth kind. confused.

I love lavender pear <goes to check that I don't smell like an old person's sock drawer>

Signing up for a 5k run. So excited to start running again!

peardrop2 Sat 10-Aug-13 07:43:18

I can happily confirm that the lavender drops worked and we're back on track. 9:30 - 2:30 and 3 - 6am. TG!

Bring have you lost the plot? You're amazing to sign up to 5k with 3 bundles of joy on your plate :-)

AGnu Sat 10-Aug-13 08:18:43

pear She probably does 5km a day anyway chasing after them all! wink

DS2 slept for 8 hours last night & the best bit is that I slept for most of that time too! We kept him up so we could both poke at his mouth so he went to bed just before I did. I think once I wake up properly & have something to drink I'll feel better. Not used to going this long without fluid!

I've got a posseting baby too written as he pukes down my arm! I'm hoping to see some improvement if/when we get his 'imaginary' PTT cut. Frus how are you getting on now? Is his lip-tie causing you problems? I've discovered that there's someone in London who cuts them. Not sure if we're going to go for that or if we'll get his PTT sorted & hope for the best. I'm picking my battles with DH at the moment!

peardrop2 Sat 10-Aug-13 09:18:30

AGNU do you live down south? You can pay hospitals £80 to do them. Did you know?

FrussoHathor Sat 10-Aug-13 10:51:23

His top lip can flange now that his lower jaw has more movement and he can open his mouth wide enough to do it.

FrussoHathor Sat 10-Aug-13 11:08:18

Aaaaaaaahhhh grrrrrrrrr #~%#%$*#~>$+[.

As you were. I'm going back to bed.

AIBU to think that you don't get to sleep in if you decide to go out until 3 am and play poker (ahem, dh). It's the weekend. Toughen up, love, you get to take care of the kids too. Fucking men, I tell you! <wails> I hate weekends!!!!!

A 5k is a way to make sure I get to get out of the house everyday to run by myself while dh gets to take care of children. I have lost the plot if that's the only guaranteed way that I get 30 minutes to myself (I lost the plot a long time ago when I thought that getting married was a good idea hmm)

Totally not unreasonable at all being unless birthday or previously agreed and offered another night for you!
The men folk do piss me off like that, it's as though the kids arnt their responsibility all the time, they get to pick when it suits?!
Missed the new bus, hadnt checked inbox or fb plus found cycle 15 of Americas next too model on sky and have become addicted, yes I like that kind of trash
Sorry to hear the app didn't go well Agnu, how frustrating! Not sure what I'd suggest except like you say if your going to get a second opinion is want it sooner then later
Pear glad to hear your night was back on track, I have heard to motors are a problem food!
Sorry for the sickies, I too had some last night but just a trickle but yes to icky warm down your back
Kitten still doing well on sleep, we've had 3 nights of 7-6 and 2 in between 7-4:30/5

FrussoHathor Sat 10-Aug-13 15:53:36

Yanbu bring
I like your plot loosing techniques. I got frus-dog as a way of getting time to myself by walking him, but he's just as needy and hard work and mess creating as the rest of them. <rolls eyes at the 6 chiwawas worth of fur that has been dumped on the floor in the past day alone>

Aibu to expect to be able to take ds back to bed during the day for more than 1.5 hours? DH gets to take naps all the time when he wants. I haven't had an hour alone (1xmovies doesn't count as DH was there) since I the day before frus jr was born. Im knackered and DH wonders why I'm stroppy. hmm

I've now managed to sulk DH into having the dcs whilst I have a much needed I stink bath alone. Before he goes to work. And I have to face the bedtime mayhem alone again I hate DH working evenings but we need the extra money this month.

Oh and I'm pretty sure ds has hit the start of his 12wk growth spurt. I feel like a dairy cow. I shall wear black and white and call myself daisy.

FrussoHathorAKADaisythecow Sat 10-Aug-13 16:00:34


Glad you found the bus kitty

AGnu Sat 10-Aug-13 17:41:17

Lol! Love the NC Frus!

Pear, yes but my local hospital person is the one who told me it doesn't exist. The bloke in London has trained with a world expert in TTs & will do both the TT & ULT. Might as well go for the best we can... I did try to convince DH to let my fly to NY to have it done by the expert. Oddly enough, he wasn't so keen on that idea. Can't imagine why! wink

FrussoHathorAKADaisythecow Sat 10-Aug-13 19:30:06

Good luck with convincing DH AGnu. I hope it is soon for you.

List to that noise... What do you hear..?.. Nothing. Good. That's called victory. 3 children fed, bathed, and 2 in bed, before 7.30.

Oh frus, never never post something like that, you know what tempting fate did!

Lorelei353 Sat 10-Aug-13 20:25:46

impressive Frus/Daisy.

My ds still won't go down for the night before 11-12. He might have a short nap around 7.30/8 but it'll be less than an hour and then he'll want feeding and just won't settle or be put in the crib until late. He might sleep for four hours then.

FrussoHathorAKADaisythecow Sat 10-Aug-13 20:34:09

What did tempting fate do?

Ps I now have 3 sleeping dcs. <does a little party dance>
#1 woke wake up again until 7 or 8 tomorrow. #2 won't wake up for a few hours meds, the problem is getting her to sleep in the 1st place ds is in his cot so only need to move the cot now.
Question is, do I watch another episode of fringe or go to bed?

Lorelei353 Sat 10-Aug-13 21:20:50

So, I'm finally going to start expressing milk for DS. I have the Medela electric pump, and I'm going to do it in the morning when I'm really full. Can I ask some stupid newbie questions?

Will the pump just get a certain amount and then it'll stop coming out? It won't just keep coming will it?

How long until DS can feed from that breast then? Will it fill up again quickly?

How much do I need for a feed? Will I get enough in one pumping session or will I have to do it a few times?

We're just going to do one session and see if DS will take the bottle. I want to do it so I can go to Pilates on Thursday so I'll only be out of the house for just under an hour and a half.

peardrop2 Sat 10-Aug-13 22:20:01

Frus 12 week growth spurt? Really?

Agnu I know someone who paid £80 to have it done at Epson hospital! I know you've probably tried everything but it might be worth calling them?

FrussoHathorAKADaisythecow Sat 10-Aug-13 22:24:32

Will the pump just get a certain amount and then it'll stop coming out? It won't just keep coming will it? it won't just keep coming, think of it as a carton of milk rather than a tap.

How long until DS can feed from that breast then? Will it fill up again quickly? I only do one side at a time. So if ds needs feeding (they can smell you pumping) you have one side ready to go as it were. As to how long it takes to refil, that can vary. Mine can be between half an hour, or it can be much longer. Drink plenty of water and it shouldn't be too long.

How much do I need for a feed? Will I get enough in one pumping session or will I have to do it a few times? I'd say see how you go, you may get a 1/2oz or 4-5oz. I'd aim for about 2x3oz for your time frame.

FrussoHathorAKADaisythecow Sat 10-Aug-13 22:28:12

pear yup. Afraid so. It's their last feeding frenzy before it all settles down. IME it's plain sailing after that one.

Lorelei353 Sat 10-Aug-13 23:03:08

Thanks a lot frus. It really helps to know what my expectations should be (roughly). smile

FrussoHathorAKADaisythecow Sat 10-Aug-13 23:30:15

First time you may not get a lot lore then again you might but you can store it in the fridge (main part not door) and add to it. As long as the milk is the same temperature. So sticking the 2nd bottle in the fridge for an hour and then adding it to the 1st.
It adds up after a while, and if you regularly express you body makes extra milk to compensate.

I find that sometimes I have to trigger my letdown reflex by hand before using the pump. not always though discounting ds, change in temperature triggers mine. So a fan or ice touching my boobs, or the freezer isle in the supermarket a steamy bathroom works too.

My ds probably wouldn't drink the whole 6oz. He doesn't take more than 5 in a feed from a bottle. But I prefer it stored in smaller amounts as there's less wastage if the person with ds misreads his feeding cues. Can always warm up another 3oz if he is hungry than wasting 6 if he isn't.

Frus answered all the questions exactly as I would have, I'll just add what happens for me....
Will the pump just get a certain amount and then it'll stop coming out? It won't just keep coming will it? I usually express about as much as I would for one of M's normal feeds about 5 oz. It usually takes about 10 minutes until I'm not getting anything else. I've only been able to get 1 let-down when pumping, but sometimes have had several from 1 breast when M feeds. Thinking about your DS's face when your feeding him, what the feeds feel like or looking at a picture of him will help you get a let-down that results in more milk production.

How long until DS can feed from that breast then? Will it fill up again quickly? It takes me about 20 minutes until M can get another let-down. If I'm planning on expressing milk that day I try to get in an extra 1-2 glasses of water than normal to compensate.

How much do I need for a feed? Will I get enough in one pumping session or will I have to do it a few times? You may get enough in 1 session, or you may need to express a few times. I'm like frus storing the milk in smaller quantities or just warming half of the normal amt at a time feels like we're not wasting all the precious milk!

We headed to the Irish Fair today. So fun! We are all exhausted, sunburnt, and dirty, but it was really good. Thankfully dh got his act together after I get really mad and shouted at him to get up blush<I may have told him he's useless when he's hungover>

FrussoHathorAKADaisythecow Sun 11-Aug-13 08:01:41






I'm not finding it funny any more. I only have to think about letdown and it starts.

bring in sorry you've had to shout at DH to get results.

Well DH has gone fishing with dd1, and dd2 is still asleep. So it's just me and the boy.

AGnu Sun 11-Aug-13 09:24:55

I listened to her & have been working on the latch & tried him on the left a couple of times. My vasospasms are back. Joy. hmm One topless meal later & I'm back to expressing from that side again!

Lorelei353 Sun 11-Aug-13 09:26:49

Thanks everyone for your advice. I tried expressing this morning and got 3oz from one breast, before I stopped. It was still coming but I figured that was enough to introduce the bottle to DS tonight, bearing in mind that I'll be here if he needs more.

On another note having been complaining that he never goes to sleep before 10.30/11 he totally caught us off guard yesterday, he went down at 8 and we thought he'd be up in about 30 mins but he stayed down for three hours. We hasn't dressed him for bed or given him his bath and had only put him down in his pram in the living room instead of the crib! He didn't fully wake up then but we did get him changed and fed then he settled straight back down in the crib just after 11 and slept until 2.30, then quick feed and back down until 5.30. Good night!

Librarina Sun 11-Aug-13 10:07:23

I have a crusty cleavage from my top boob leaking while I fed her off my bottom one!

Does anything happen at 8 weeks? She's 8 weeks today and has turned into a sad, grumpy baby almost overnight.
Cried on my boob at bedtime (I think cos her sleep suit was a little small and her foot was a bit squashed). And again this morning (this time cos she had a wind). It's a good job I got a reasonable (bloody marvellous) sleep last night 9-5.15, 6-8.30

Am being apart from baby for the first time today, she's going to baby massage with her daddy!

Librarina Sun 11-Aug-13 10:14:16

Lor, I get about 3oz from an expressing. I do it once every 2 or 3 days just so she doesn't forget how to take a bottle.

FrussoHathorAKADaisythecow Sun 11-Aug-13 10:57:00

AGnu have inboxed you a number.

lib crusty cleavage? grin

Right. Worried that M has pyloric stenosis. Found out that my dad had it as a baby and that it's hereditary and her symptoms sound really similar to what Dr. Google says (shame on me). Although it seems she doesn't have a severe case of it if that's what it is. She doesn't go in for her well-child check up until the 23rd so here's to hoping that she doesn't forcefully puke on me too many more times between now and then (as our doctor is always totally booked solid). She did a doozy last night all over me. Woah it was disgusting. Like I even had to change my own underwear because I was covered in grossness.

Oh agnu I'm so sorry you're having such pain with feeding your little guy! I really hope you're able to find a new option for someone who will see him.

Wow Lib what are you going to do all by yourself? Enjoy your break <jealous>

Lorelei353 Sun 11-Aug-13 17:00:18

So, DH had had his first bottle! It wasn't a massive feed as he wasn't tha hungry so he took about an ounce before falling asleep. DH loved giving it to him although felt a bit of pressure. He took it really easily though - we have the Medela Calma bottles. I felt really emotional about it though. I loved watching DH do it, But felt a bit like a third wheel, like I'd been usurped. I may have shed a little tear or two blush

Lorelei353 Sun 11-Aug-13 17:02:16

bring that sounds a bit scary. Hope you're not too worried. You know googling symptoms is dangerous as you'll always find the worst case scenario.

Great news Lor! I totally know what you mean. Up until now you've been the only one being able to fully take care of your babe. Even though we all grumble about it one time or another, it still is an amazing thing and it feels kind of sad when someone else can all of a sudden! It's still a good skill for the littles to have.

I'm not majorly worried. I was just speaking to my mum about baby's symptoms yesterday and she mentioned about my own dad's condition as a baby so I looked it up. It could just be that she over-eats or is reacting to something that I'm eating so I'm just seeing it as something we should rule out.

Lor I cried the first time dh gave dd1 a bottle! It was my milk but it still upset me, I think it's exactly as bring said, the fact they've only needed you before and giving up a tiny but of that, it does get easier and in the end you'll apreciate being able to have abit of freedom
I don't know what's wrong with this thread o my phone app but it won't let me in, it keeps kicking me out although it lets me read others! I've had to come through on the Internet but you guys are worth it lol
We've just had a full 12hrs!!! Put the little monkey both down at 7 last night and they've both woken at 7:10, and part of that was because we heard the bin wagen and realised the bin had not been put out and had to rush up dh's job ofcourse! I think they heard the door as they both woke up straight away

Oh and bring hope your wrong about little m but if your not that it's not to bad, I've no idea what it is

No extreme barfing yesterday, but I was super conscious of her cues and if she detached from the breast, I just took her off completely and burped her straight away....which lead to me having a ton of milk by the end of the day! Now I feel really bad that she may have been over-eating all this time and I had no idea. We'll see what today brings. I've also completely cut out the trigger foods and have been dairy free for the past 2 days.

Went out for a run this morning. Felt good but now I'm totally exhausted and I still have a complete day to get through with the monsters. Urgh. I wish there was some way you could workout and train w/o actually having to do anything. <.......yawn.......>

That's awesome that they slept the night through! You must be feeling fantastic this morning!

FrussoHathorAKADaisythecow Mon 12-Aug-13 19:35:41

<peers in>
<<blinks at bright light>>
Hi ladies. Ugh, no energy. Headache tablets kicking in. Even thinking about your run bring makes me feel tired.

And now my boobs are leaking again. I have serious letdown ishoos. It's not even oversupply. It's random letdown.

sad So sorry to hear of your headache Frus!! Hugs and brew brew brew for you.

FrussoHathorAKADaisythecow Mon 12-Aug-13 21:32:41

Thanks for the brew bring smile headache is most definately lack of sleep. <glares at dd2, who pulled a 11.30-6 last night>
And ds, who I took on the dog walk in his parent facing buggy because he doesn't sleep on the walk in his cot because he likes looking at me, is now fast asleep in his buggy.

Lorelei353 Tue 13-Aug-13 09:32:26

How's the head frus? And how's the vomiting bring?

We'd a great evening. He went down at 7.45 for 45 mins, but went down without a fight. Then he had a little feed and went down again about 9.15 with not too much resistance again and slept until 3! He was a bit more awake thn normal after that feed so took until 4.20 to get him down again but then he went until 6. Definitely feels like progress towards sleeping through the night is being made. If I'd done a little dream feed around 11pm he might have stayed down longer. How do you do that? Just pick them up and stick boob in their mouth, or is the idea that they'll stir a bit so you feed them quickly before they really wake up? He was so deeply asleep, I didn't want to disturb him in case we couldn't get him down again.

How are you feeling frus?
Is baby m still vomit free bring? Don't feel like you've done wrong by giving her more milk, I quite often offer more when dd is messing around comming on and off, it may be she was over eating but we only learn from that experience happening.
Lor I'd never do a dream feed personally but yes the idea is you pick them up from their sleep and give them more while they are still in a sleepy trance, personally I wouldn't want something pushed into my mouth while I was asleep though even if I liked it &#128521;lol
Sounds like he's getting into a better pattern on his own, mine had a 3 o'clock feed for weeks until it went later and later, I'd focus on keeping it as undisrupted as possible, only change nappy if necessary, don't put on lights, just pick him up, feed him, wind him and put him down, try not to give him alot of eye contact and keep it as uninteractive as possible , hopefully he will get the message it's not a play time and get that feed to a short 15min affair where he goes straight back to sleep,
If you want to try dream feeds though you could type it into google, I'm sure there will be a how to on there

Lorelei353 Tue 13-Aug-13 12:31:36

Thanks kitty. I'd been reading up on dream feeds this morning and decided I wasn't so sure about them. My let down is so strong, even at night, that DS sometimes chokes and gags on the milk when he's tired or sleepy when feeding. I think dream feeds would be a bit tricky for him! He's fine as he is and I reckon he'll just extend things by himself too. Usually for that 2/3 o'clock feed it's fairly speedy - up, feed and down in about 30 mins. I'm sure last night was just an off night or an adjustment.

FrussoHathorAKADaisythecow Tue 13-Aug-13 14:06:41

lor I can't advise I'm afraid. Dd1 refused to dream feed. And the one time I tried it with dd2 it made no difference except add an extra feed in. confused

Ds chomped me last night. He was like suction baby. Put him on the bed, leant over him to get my phone, and he was like a piraña, he seemed to jump up and nom.

Lol frus that actually had me laughing!

Haven't done dream feeds before. Glad to hear that baby Lor is sleeping well! M has been sleeping through the night for the past two weeks w/o waking for feeds at all. She pretty much wanted to go to bed last night an hour earlier than normal....and woke up an hour earlier, but then just passed out for another 2 hrs! Managed to get in a walk (my legs are killing me today!) and a shower, so feeling pretty accomplished this morning.

M vomited again yesterday morning, but luckily I was right next to the kitchen sink and made it in time. I think she just overdoes it and gulps down whatever comes with my super forceful letdown when she's trying to nurse to sleep.

FrussoHathorAKADaisythecow Tue 13-Aug-13 15:19:29

Nice sleeping m I'm jealous of sleep, but more because dd2 won't go to sleep, I can handle ds feeding and going back to sleep. He's pretty good. And his feeding helps me go back to sleep so everyone's a winner. grin

bring it was like he smelt the milk and was magnetically drawn to it. Made me squeal as he proper chomped down or rather up there's usually enough clearage.

FrussoHathorAKADaisythecow Tue 13-Aug-13 22:45:00

I hope everyones little ones sleep well tonight.

Quiet on the thread today. Hope everyone has had a good day with the little ones and plenty of sleep tonight!

M decided to put herself down for the night at 7 hmm Let's hope this doesn't mean we're up at a bright and shiny 5 am.

FrussoHathorAKADaisythecow Wed 14-Aug-13 07:31:59

I'd like to say that we almost slept through. But thanks to dd2 waking at 130 and 4, I didn't. angry
Ds didn't feed at my first waking, despite my trying to wave a full boob in his face dream feed him. Second time I was more desperate had more luck and catch him with his mouth open.
This morning was such a relief, the side I didn't convince him to take in the night was huge and painful and I could hardly move, and poor ds could hardly latch on.

How did your night go bring? You may find she's just extending her nights sleep rather then the same length of time, dd is asleep by 7/7:30 most nights and is going through to 6-7 now, the worst she's done ( I say worst loosely) was last night where we struggled to get her down cycle of feed/ wind/ feed / more wind etc till 8:30/9 then she woke at 6, that's the earliest for a few nights, yesterday was 6:30 from 7:30 and the night before 7:10 from 7, it's like the earlier she goes down the longer she sleeps in her case!
Dh did a blinder yesterday, took the girls to visit his grandparents so took the bottle of milk with him, she takes it now aslong as its not her night time feed ( strange girl) and he spilt it in the side pocket of the bag, in his words though " luckily it was waterproof so I just tipped it back in!" Seriously!!! Why do I bother sterilising things? She seems to be unscathed however
Frus the piranha story was very funny

Librarina Wed 14-Aug-13 09:44:29

Kitty that made me laugh! I cried both times DH wasted my breastmilk. In fact I know one girl who made her partner drink it so that at least someone got the goodness if that baby doesn't....he didn't waste it again!

Had a really blue day yesterday. I thought I'd better start introducing a bit more of a routine into our day instead of muddling through feeding and cuddling at will and napping in the sling/carseat at seemingly random intervals. So I read up on EASY, Eat, Actuvity, Sleep. It worked fine in the morning, but then we had to go in the car and N was awake when the list said she should be asleep, so then I fed her, and she grumbled in he car in the way home, but she should have been asleep according to the sequence, so I kept trying to soothe her, for 15 minutes, until I couldn't do it anymore and she was properly crying. S I fed her, and she was fine. But I was in bits, proper exhausted sobbing and feeling like the worst Mum in the world. Luckily DH got back just as I was weeping and talked me down but it was bloody scary. She's fine now, and I've been told to stop reding about babies and sleep for a few days.

FrussoHathorAKADaisythecow Wed 14-Aug-13 10:25:13

lib ((hugs)) frus jnr doesn't do the EASY plan. Cars always throw them. It's like it's not a proper sleep.
He's awake and wanting to play out of sequence, he's more, sleep, feed, play, feed, play, feed,dose, feed. And random nappy changes thrown in for good measure. hmm anyone get the impression I over feed him?

Naw, you definitely don't over feed him- if he takes it and doesn't vomit it all back up all over you then I'm sure he's fine smile

Sorry to hear about it not going well, Lib. I found EASY didn't really work well until the boys were eating solids (and even then they would still nurse to take naps). There are days where you feel like you've got it all backwards and everything that you've been doing right has gone to complete shit. Most of us are just fumbling our way through parenthood and it's all always a guessing game to be honest! You are not the worst mum in the world, quite the opposite! You are do dedicated to breastfeeding which is amazing and you've dealt with so much in the first 2 months of her life. She is a very content happy baby, just go with the flow my fellow hippy mama wink. Do what your instincts and your sweet babe tell you.

Yeah, she totally slept through again! So surprised. I woke her up for a quick feed before my run--more for my own benefit as jogging with rock-hard bb's really isn't fun--. I have to say, waking up at 6 really isn't pleasurable, but getting to run down to the lake near my house and hearing loons and watching the fish jump, and the only obnoxious sound near me is the ducks not my kids makes it totally worth it.

Wow bring, you paint a gorgeous scene, I love that peace that running can provide, that spence of freedom! I really need to get myself motivated to start again. It's been so long though I know I'd have to start from scratch and be like 10 minutes!! Well done baby m, given she's the youngest on the bus she's a little marvel! I thought she would sleep through for you as her body would probably indicate the time she usually wakes to feed and they do need so much sleep really

Lib- so sorry you had a mini melt down, alot of it will be tiredness but we do put so much pressure on ourselves to do everything right! I don't follow any plan with mine in the day, kitten always sleeps better in her cot but if we have plans that day we have plans! You can try to fit them into a plan but you often find it very restricting, I love my routine at night but to a point it is restrictive as you find once they are in the habit of expecting to go up for a bath at 6 and getting to go to bed then that's what they want so if you wanted to take them out in the evening then they don't like it and get really upset, I had to leave my mil 60th bday meal early on sat as she got so upset but on the whole the pros outweigh the cons and we go out after the kids are asleep if we want to, likewise with feeding I try to follow a 3 hr plan in the day but if she wants it after 2 I give it! I think bit of structure is great but at the end of the day if you were enjoying your way before just stick with it, there's no right or wrong, give your baby a snuggle and remind yourself your a great mum, we all do the best we can x

AGnu Wed 14-Aug-13 15:01:56

I've never heard of the EASY idea, or kitty's 7-7 training scheme. I've never really read any parenting books though! I generally feed my DC when they seem hungry & put them to bed when they seemed tired & if we're out then they just have to fit in around what's going on! I shall write my own parenting book called "It probably won't harm them"! grin

No update on DS2's PTT yet. The bloke in Southampton is going away for a few months so he's no help! Have heard about a possibility near my parents so just waiting to hear back about that now but not overly hopeful. London specialist charges £380 to laser it. £380 for a 2 minute op! I think I've found my new career! hmm

Wow, agnu that is ridiculous. That sounds like the hefty medical charges we have over here! I'm still so shocked at the lack of competency you've had to deal with.

Thinking of becoming an IBCLC so other mums don't have to experience this kind of trouble with getting their breastfeeding needs met. Such a long process though. I suppose I could do it whilst working on midwifery as well.... The eternal student it will feel like....hmm

FrussoHathorAKADaisythecow Wed 14-Aug-13 17:59:08

agnu I shall be a firm follower of your book. grin

Librarina Wed 14-Aug-13 18:53:38

Thank you for the kind words ladies, I was so sad yesterday,but feel much better today. I think a lot of it was down to tiredness but also reading too much, I should just listen to my baby and my nipples...together we are happier!

She has been pretty perfect today. I popped her in the sling and she slept for 1.5 hours in the morning and 2 hours in the afternoon. I'm usually crap at napping so I was really happy with that...hope she still sleeps tonight, I'm sure she will. She's having a grizzly period now but that's usual for this time in the evening and its only half an hour til baths time and she loves the bath!

FrussoHathorAKADaisythecow Wed 14-Aug-13 21:36:32

lib you know your baby better than any book.

AGnu Thu 15-Aug-13 00:13:19

Lib can I steal that as the title for my book? "Together we are happier: Listening to your baby's needs" wink

Bring I've been looking into how to become an IBCLC! It'd be more complicated for me since I'm not already a health professional but it'd be doable! I reckon I've covered at least a third of the subjects they insist non-professionals have qualifications in so another course or 2 & I'd be sorted! I have lots of grand plans for what I could do with my life... Then I remember how much I love being a SAHM! grin

I'm pretty sure the lady we saw isn't an IBCLC but I had an email today from milk-bank-lady who definitely is. I haven't yet replied to her but I'm not entirely sure why! confused The plan is to explain to her that we've seen her colleague but we know how difficult it can be to identify PTTs so we're thinking about getting a second opinion before we start thinking about giving up on breastfeeding & just hope she offers to have a look at him. I feel a bit funny about asking her outright to check given that she shares an office with the lady we saw! My friends' little boy had a tongue tie cut by MBL & said she was great so that's encouraging!
I just can't quite bring myself to write the email though. I think I'm just feeling worn down by it all & being away for a few days I've managed to get out of the reality of the situation & am beginning to wonder if it's really such a big deal... & then I remember I've not fed him from one side for ages & need to express again! My mum just rolls her eyes when I mention it & clearly thinks I'm just being silly! She's not said anything but I can tell what she's thinking!
I just feel really torn at the moment. I just want a break from thinking about it but then I know the sooner we get it sorted the better! Part of me just wants to ask DH to deal with it but he's insanely busy at work right now & I can't be 100% sure he'd communicate exactly what my concerns are. He has a habit of saying things like "my wife thinks that..." which really bugs me because it feels like he's putting it all on me, rather than us facing it together. I know he doesn't mean it like that though. I'm just a bit sensitive at the moment! I'll feel so stupid if I am wrong!
Saw DFSis yesterday who gave up bf-ing both of hers after about 5 minutes & DSIL who gave up after a couple of weeks. DFSis commented that it's really weird how some women have huge problems bf-ing & other women just take to it. She then asked me if it "has always been so easy" for me! I didn't really know how to respond without unintentionally implying that they didn't fight hard enough! DSIL said that 'they' talk a lot about the benefits of breastfeeding but formula has benefits too... Like being able to leave the baby for a while or go out somewhere... I nearly pointed out that I had a bottle in the fridge for DS2 so anyone could feed him & if we were out then I didn't need to worry about cleaning bottles or lugging all the stuff around! I just bit my tongue. I'm quite used to doing that around DSIL. When I announced my pregnancy with DS1 the first thing she said was that I couldn't eat raspberries. hmm

Sorry for the long waffle! blush I guess being away from DH & around people who clearly don't understand why it's important to me is making me feel a little lonely. Which is an odd feeling when you don't get 5s alone in a room unless you stay up until midnight!

Lorelei353 Thu 15-Aug-13 07:37:34

lib I like the sound of your book! I think I've been doing too much reading too. It's so easy as a first timer to doubt yourself and try to read up on things to try and get it 'right'.

That said with no intervention or 'training' on my part DS last night went down to sleep really easily just after 8 and stayed down until 3, then fed, back down by 3.45 and slept through to 6.30. Amazing!

Lor sounds like he's doing great! He will drop that last feed in the end when he's ready, doesn't sound like you have to do anything differently

Agnu- has she contacted you about the tie or about donating?
Perhaps given that your reluctant writing it and worry you might be wrong you could phrase it like , you've seen her collegue who didn't think there was a tongue tie, however you have persisted in trying to accomplish a different latch but not of the problems have rectified and you are close to just giving up, is there anything else she can suggest or perhaps could she meet you to see if she can see if there is anything wrong with what you are doing?
I'm thinking this could get you a meet with her and when she sees him in action will be looking herself at what you think is the problem, you can always say I thought it was....... While she's looking! I'm sure if she disagrees with her collegue she won't let you both suffer ?

FrussoHathorAKADaisythecow Thu 15-Aug-13 08:46:08

agnu I'm afraid I'm going to have to go into teacher mode with you aren't I?
<puts on reading glasses>
<looks over them>
agnu, from what you've put on here, you want to fight, you have done amazingly well to get to where you are. I know you're feeling run down by it all, and don't have the support that you need, but you need to write and send that email. And you need to do it now.
Just because they share an office does not mean they share views, or experience, or skill/knowledge.
Now get off MN for 5 minutes and write that email. And do not apologise for wanting a 2nd opinion.
<removes teacher mode>
<gives agnu (((((hugs)))))>

FrussoHathorAKADaisythecow Thu 15-Aug-13 08:53:25

And yes to what kitty said.

In other news, ds fed about 6 times last night. And boy do I and my boobs feel better for it. grin I must be the only mum who doesn't care that he doesn't sleep through. and prefers it when he doesn't
And DH dealt with dd2 all night med free night so he's more tired than I am.

Yy to frus, Agnu you better not be reading this, you better be writing that email.......
Med free frus? Does she have to have med free days or are you trying to wein her off? At the moment my baby sleeps better then the two year old?!?
Oh and back to Agnu's post I hate when people spout rubish about leaving their baby or going out??? Since when can you not go out if you bf? I don't think I'd be able to bite my tongue, formula has a place and is great to provide a choice for women but I'm pretty sure when people say that other stuff it is guilt talking, I have friends who did it successfully for 5 days then stoped? Just don't get it and they come up with nonsense about not making enough etc I wish people would just hold their hands up and say you know what it just wasn't for me! Or am I being abit judgemental?

Librarina Thu 15-Aug-13 09:38:09

I think I'm a bit pro breast feeding judgy too.
I'd respect anyone's choice to say its not for me but I'd love to encourage them to try for one more day....it took us 7 weeks but we are there now and it's wonderful. I'd like to share that good feeling, whilst not making anyone feel bad.

N had a pretty textbook night but she is soooo wriggly it wakes me up even when not feeing. Wind or just the perils of co sleeping?

FrussoHathorAKADaisythecow Thu 15-Aug-13 11:50:19

lib I think the wriggling depends on the child. I didn't co-sleep with dd1, and she is a major wriggler. Dd2 wriggles when she needs a wee.

Omg kitten is having a majorly sleepy day! She slept 7-7 had an hour and a half awake then slept for another 3shock dd1 woke her in the end as we were waiting for her to go out lol ( she got bored of waiting!) I have managed to cook loads of baby food! Abit premature given she's only 3 months but I'm freezing it and the veg was going to go off oc I didn't use it and I hate waste, there's alot of courgette involved things though lol I hope she doesn't hate it
Lib when people talk about formula feeding or bf I just say how much I enjoy it and how easy it is once you can get it right and leave it at that, I think people often have their minds made up before they try at what path they really want to do and I think it's up to them I just think you don't need to defend it, just say that's my choice but I guess people don't like to be judged, I just don't like it when they put a spin on it like bf babies don't sleep or are not as satisfied/happy or other nonsence

Bad mother alert...... Forgot to take "megan" for her jabs hmm balls

Librarina Thu 15-Aug-13 20:26:43

Kitty, I love you for being a bad mother!
Megan will be fine till next week. Xx

FrussoHathorAKADaisythecow Thu 15-Aug-13 21:44:26

Well when you phone them you can tell them that Megan missed her jabs as well as kitten. cake

I will frus lol
The kids have switched this morning, dd1 still asleep kitten awake at 6 can't they discuss it between themselves to discus giving me a lie in where they both stay asleep?

Librarina Fri 16-Aug-13 10:15:06

Bloody blocked duct....think it's from sleeping on my tummy last night, caught it at midnight so been pumping, massaging and have taken to my bed today.

This is cos I said Breastfeeding is wonderful yesterday!

sad Lib I'm giving you the "poor you" look my MIL gives me. Hope it clears up quickly. Be gone nasty blocked duct!

Bahaha, poor Megan.

You all know I'm a staunch pro-bf'ing person. Over there you guys aren't having to worry about GMO soy and corn being in the formula (so I guess I'm a bit more ok with it), but here it's prevalent unless you buy organic (which is like 5 dollars more expensive) and it's horrible to think we are feeding our babies things that we don't even know what are doing to our bodies! I feel like the biggest problem our culture has surrounding bf'ing is that women are undereducated, undersupported, and are fed by the media that formula is "just as good" as breastmilk, so why keep trying when it gets tough? Have any of you seen the story about the mum who is being threatened to have her child taken away because she made her own home-made formula out of goat's milk instead of using the GMO formula her doctor told her to use? This doctor then turned her into the CPS over the formula. Disgusting.

Right, in other news.... my idyllic morning walk included the eldest this morning and it was neither peaceful nor meditative. It included 5,000 questions and a whole lot of "shhhhhhhhhh it's a quite walk" from me. I'm going to have to sneak out earlier from now on!

FrussoHathorAKADaisythecow Fri 16-Aug-13 13:27:42

Morning/afternoon all. I have m again keep trying to massage it out. Which is not working, so I may well have to feed upside down later to clear it.

FrussoHathorAKADaisythecow Fri 16-Aug-13 23:06:30

I wrote a huge post. And lost it. Pah. I give up.

FrussoHathorAKADaisythecow Fri 16-Aug-13 23:14:16

You know what lib breastfeeding is wonderful, even with the blocked ducts and m--and leakage, and chomping. And the aching joints it give me. Ooh and the nausea... actually not the nausea. --that's weird and annoying, but not every feed I could probably live without the hot oil/thick icing let down too.
And agnus pain. sad I do wish I could make it all better and enjoyable/pain free for you agnu

FrussoHathorAKADaisythecow Fri 16-Aug-13 23:15:10

Strikeout fail. blush

FrussoHathorAKADaisythecow Sat 17-Aug-13 12:14:15

Aaaahhh temper tantrums and meltdowns galore today. and that's just me, don't even mention the dds. Dds have apple not the fruit withdrawal. And I've just black bagged 2 huge piles of toys from their bedroom, that I'm sick of picking up every day.
They are now playing semi nicely with the remaining toys. well they're not killing each other

How is everyone else's weekend? grin

FrussoHathorAKADaisythecow Sat 17-Aug-13 14:08:59

And all is calm and tidy in the world of frus.

Is everyone busy? I'll keep talking to myself then. <blows raspberries at invisible friends>

<runs off to play on aibu>

AGnu Sat 17-Aug-13 15:57:46

I'm not busy, just avoiding you! wink
<Continues hiding from scary teacher-Frus until I've sent that email!> blush

Lol. I'm here. Lurking. I was too spent yesterday after a long day of midwife-student debating, picking up exhausted and junk food-filled kids from daycare, and a cluster-feeding 2 month old attached permanently to my boob.

Did you read that article, Frus? I packed up 3(!!!) boxes of toys to donate and they still have an entire box of lego, box of cars, and a train set. I'm declaring no more toys for the boys to the family members. We've got enough toys junk already to pick up around here. They seem to play a lot better with each other w/o the clutter. Feels good to get rid of a bunch of stuff.

We're off to a Native American dance celebration (Wacipi or Pow Wow) for the day. Super excited!

Hope you all are well.

FrussoHathorAKADaisythecow Sat 17-Aug-13 16:29:25

Agnu <in an exasperated voice>
please don't hide from me though. I'm not that scary.
<paranoia kicks in>
<sings to self>
#nobody loves me
everybody hatesme,
I'm going down the garden to eat worms#
grin grin grin

I did read it bring I don't agree with getting rid of all of the toys. The ASD meltdown that commenced when i put them in bags wouldnt allow me to even if i wanted to.
But I do find dcs play better with less choice. I generally blitz their toys every 3-6months. It's the soft toys that took the stuffing today. And the iPad, but that's a whole other SN thread. I do think dc need to have some toys. Just not so many that the floor can't be see and the toy boxes are overflowing.

Your day sounds fun, I wanna come too.

AGnu Sat 17-Aug-13 16:34:03

Wow bring! That sounds very exciting! I'm fascinated by Native American culture. I wanted to go see something like that when I was visiting DH's cousins in Canada a few years ago but the only reservation places they had near them were the run-down, poverty-stricken type, not the type that really continues many of the really old traditions. I've made DH agree that when he retires in 40 years we'll go on a road trip around America & see all the places I want to go! grin

The email has been sent. I really don't know why I'm making such a big deal out of emailing someone I've never met! I guess I'm just dreading someone else telling me there's no PTT. I went to a breastfeeding group yesterday & the peer-supporters gave me contact details of a few other people who might be able to help so I've got a few local options now. DH actually suggested that we should just "bite the bullet" & go to the specialist in London! I love him for being willing to spend that much just to make me happy but I'm not sure I can bring myself to pay £380 when we could keep going with feeding from 1 side & expressing from the other or taking the easy route & switching to formula. I actually feel sick just thinking about that. No idea why though! DS1 was mix-fed! confused

AGnu Sat 17-Aug-13 16:37:17

Eeeewwww! Please don't eat worms because of me Frus!!! grin

FrussoHathorAKADaisythecow Sat 17-Aug-13 18:18:33

#the long thin slimy ones slip down easily
The short fat furry ones stick
You bite of the heads
And suck out the guts
And throw the skins away#

And to add to my blitz Dora the stuffing explora is now banned from the frus house.

Librarina Sat 17-Aug-13 18:25:16

I'm impressed by your toy clearing efforts, I really don't want N to have too much 'stuff'. I think if they have to many objects they can't get attached to anything or know what to play with.

She has fed almost every 2 hours today, bearing in mind it can take 45 mins to feed that's a lot of Doctor Who DVDs, still i keep telling myself that feeding off the sore boob can only help it....When she wasn't feeding she's slept so who knows what tonight will bring!

I've cleared the blockage but there is still a small and pain free lump in my boob, am massaging it and feeding off that boob but that's all.

Takeaway for tea..yay!

FrussoHathorAKADaisythecow Sat 17-Aug-13 20:26:53

DT or MS lib? I need something new to watch since I've finished fringe.

FrussoHathorAKADaisythecow Sat 17-Aug-13 20:29:18

... Any one have any ideas of sci-fi series I can watch (ideally ones that fox didn't cancel mid series, like Kyle)

FrussoHathor Sat 17-Aug-13 22:04:55

How was your day out bring?

Librarina Sun 18-Aug-13 09:45:46

Frus, CE!

Also, have you seen Firefly or Dollhouse? Both the work of Josh Weedon who did Buffy? Or early Torchwood is ace or are they a bit obvious? I also love Misfits and The West Wing (not Sci Fi but great TV)

FrussoHathor Sun 18-Aug-13 10:04:25

Not seen either of those lib will have a search on Netflix and Apple TV when I get home.
I've been to the carboot sale. I was after a door bouncer or a jumperoo. Unfortunately I've come away with a fire engine and a dancing simba. so much for my toy blitz and some clothes for ds.

Oh frus there was both at the car boot I've been hmm
Dd1 got a tigger teddy, her knew obsession as if we need another bloody teddy

FrussoHathor Sun 18-Aug-13 12:35:25

I have an eating sleeping grumble bumble.

I have a wide awake worm!

I've got a baby with a rash all over and dh who's been sent out for disposable nappies and some rash cream. Poor mite. Hope it clears up and I can eliminate whatever is causing it.

I've just been thanked by ds1 for having a girl baby in my tummy. hmm

The day was supposed to be fun. The boys were obnoxious and I wanted to stuff them in the portable toilets and leave them there had a hard time with their behavior and get them to stop being so naughty. We're bringing my parents today so hopefully 4 adults can wrangle two naughty boys for a few hours.

FrussoHathor Sun 18-Aug-13 18:08:18

kitty I have screaming one now.

oh no bring poor little thing, I hope you find the trigger soon.

bring I hear you loud and clear with the shove them in a portaloo behaviours.

Dd1 has been a huge, annoying, ungrateful, answering back little madam all day.
Dd2 is dd2. However she has just gone above and beyond today. Tea time was fun, fish pie wasn't good enough, so I had to make her pasta. (Not a problem in itself, --its a food texture thing rather than a spoilt brat thing--) made pasta with ds hanging of my boob.
Then ds pooped, had to change his nappy and he pooped all over me, and the sofa leather thankfully and the cushion he was on cream, and whilst I was sorting that mess out and a screaming ds, the pasta stuck to the pan. Then once I rescued the pasta. Dd2 decided she wasn't going to have it. A few threats of no toys and straight to bed later she is now eating.
And dd1 has just let all the water out the bath, and I have 2 more children to bath before dh gets home in 10 minutes. Grrrrrrrr <pulls hair out on dispair> maybe I should have black bagged them with the old toys
<counts days left until school>

<hunts out headache tablets> anyone guess why I always have headaches? grin

AGnu Sun 18-Aug-13 18:23:38

Are we allowed to lock them in portaloos now? That would make life so much simpler! wink Can we hire some for the bus?

FrussoHathor Sun 18-Aug-13 19:22:23

Not allowed to lock them in I'm afraid agnu but could probably get away with nudging them down the hole. wink

Long day, dh on long nights so not even seen him today, thankfully the girls have made life easy tonight and were both asleep by 7 worn out myself included and just had a beer while watching hitch, my oh my I love will smith smile
Want to go to bed but got to pump boobs first hmm
Hope you were able to put the day behind you bring, nothing worse then trying to do fun nice things and having it thrown back in your face
Frus that sounds like the kind of day I'm used to, hope dh took over and you can join me in a wine

Ohhhh dear Frus That sounds like the day/evening from hell. Yes, I can see where the headache tablets would be a fantabulous idea! I'm SO counting down the days until school starts as well 14 The thought of them falling down the loo hole is absolutely terrifying. Oh my god, what a horrible metal picture I've just had to live through. shock. I'll have to find a new place to leave them.

Well, today was fairly better. Was good to see mum and dad, the boys were really excited and we managed to see some pretty amazing dancing.....and M managed to puke alllllllllll over me and blow out a disposable nappy. We haven't had a blow out at all with her cloth ones so this was new territory for me. I think her rash is from wearing a cloth nappy last night that wasn't properly washed (it's one of ds2's old nappies from when he was a baby that I just pulled out the box because M pooed in her last clean overnight nappy right before I was going to put her down for the night). Urgh. So now we have to wait for this to clear up before she can wear her normal ones again. She suddenly seems so tiny all of a sudden without her massive cloth nappy butt!

FrussoHathor Mon 19-Aug-13 07:10:14

No kitty DH didn't take over. angry so I sulked and stropped and shouted at him for being a selfish twunt because he moaned that ds didnt want him, no dear, ds is tired, he needs his nappy changed, and lying there on the sofa listening to ds moan and doing stuff all isn't going help and took ds and went to bed early.

Librarina Mon 19-Aug-13 19:18:49

God being a mummy is so hard!
I'm tired, so very tired, i havent had a ful nights sleep for over 2 months now. And my body aches from carrying her, and hefting the carseat and sitting up to feed, and from not being able to wriggle freely in the night. And I'm so bloody worried, that she'll never sleep on her own, will never nap without being popped into the sling and sung to, she'll never look left, because I sleep on the right if her, she'll never roll over because she can't but a baby I know who was born on the same day can. I fear that she has wind and I'm too tired in the night to get it out properly, I fear that my boobs we let me down, I fear that she won't weigh enough when the HV comes on Wednesday and I fear that I'm letting her down by making mistakes and not giving her good habits. I don't think I'm being a great wife to poor DH, he's constantly having to boost my roller coaster emotions and while he tells me I'm a good Mummy it's impossible to believe him.

Mostly I feel so very very guilty because I have a terrible secret.
I think I liked my life better before I had her.

Oh lib <squeeze>
You are doing a fab job please don't doubt it!
Rolling over at 2 months?!shockshockshock Is she one of the incredables??
I can assure you that most don't Untill they are 4months plus at the earliest, infact I'm sure dd1 wasn't till 6 months or something
You will not damage her by her sleeping, dd1 would only lie with her head to the left, even when I used to put her on her other side proped up for naps in the day to help,shed move until she could turn over again! She even had an app at 9 months as she had a weird shaped head but she's fine now lol
I promise they won't be bad habits for life, I've never heard of a 20yr old who still sleeps with mum and dad!
In the first few months we do all we can just to make it through the days, if it helps and there are things you want to change like the sleeping in a sling, try to do one little thing at a time take it day by day and celebrate the little victories, yesterday dd2 went to sleep in her cot from wide awake, there are nights when we have a feed/ wind pattern for an hour trying to get sleep or she crys and last night not one noise, it made me very happy!
I doubt there is a parent out there who hasn't had the thought that life was easier or nicer before there children but I bet if someone tried to come and take her you would claw their eyes out! There will be a point where you look at her and just can't imagine life any other way making you that happy I promise!
Talk to your health visitor about it, she will hear it on a regular basis and remember you can vent here whenever you want/need xx

Oh Lib, I adore your sweet, kind, self! It's not a terrible secret you need to feel like you should hide from everyone, well all have moments days, weeks, years where we remember how good we had it before the babe came along. You are right, THIS IS REALLY HARD WORK It feels unfair sometimes that we are put through such ridiculous trials and tribulations when all we see in the magazines are super happy mums and babies (I thought we'd always be having a great time with our kids!? Where did I go wrong?).

Is there anyone that you could talk to about how you're feeling? Do you feel like there are any lingering baby blues? Just to throw it out there, there is absolutely no shame in discussing feelings of anxiety, being overwhelmed, angry, sad, depressed, feeling really emotional, over tired, insomnia, loss of appetite, etc. I went through PND after DS1 was born and it was an incredibly dark point in my life that I wish I hadn't felt so ashamed to talk about so I could have gotten help sooner. It was embarrassing and terrifying for me to admit to myself let alone DH that I wasn't feeling like myself and that I needed help. Looking back I was experiencing some of the same thoughts and feelings that you've described and I just want to make sure that you're ok. I'm not saying that you have it, but it just resonated with me so I want you to know that we can always be a resource or shoulder for you to lean on. I was able to get a reference through my GP for a counselor (this was when I was still living in the UK) and I felt so much better just talking with someone about what I was going through as well as getting some tools on how to deal with those feelings.

Sending 1,000s of (((((hugs))))) your way.

AGnu Tue 20-Aug-13 08:08:19

Sometimes this whole parenting lark makes me miss my depression. Back then I could spend all day every day lounging around in bed drinking coke, eating chocolate & crisps, watching daytime TV & sleeping whenever I felt like it. Bliss! Y'know, if you ignore the bits where I couldn't get out of bed or scared myself by thinking about how easy it would be to disappear under the water in the bath...!

Being a parent isn't easy & it's certainly not always fun! It's terrifying being responsible for another human being & constantly worrying that you're teaching them the wrong thing or that you're not preparing them well enough for the outside world or that you'll take your eyes off them for a second & they'll spontaneously combust...


There'll be times when it's the best thing in the world. They look so proud of themselves when they first take a few steps & you'll be the one they want to celebrate their achievements with. It'll be you who they'll run to when they're scared/upset/hurting & they'll cling to you like you can make everything better with just a hug. You'll get to run around madly & hang them upside down by their ankles & you'll be the only one who knows how to tickle them in just the right spot for maximum giggles! grin

Parenting really is the most wonderful/scariest rollercoaster. I really do think that the first few months with your first is the worst. They get so much more entertaining when they can interact a little more & so much easier when they can be left with some toys to entertain themselves!

Go easy on yourself. Take it one day, or just one hour, at a time. Figure out what you need. As long as you can fit in feeding/changing around whatever you need to do she'll be fine! Don't worry about the housework. Eat easy things, or let your DH cook. Don't bother getting dressed if you don't feel like it. Forget about going out unless you feel you need a change. Look after yourself first. Don't tell kitty but routines can come later. DS1 didn't have a bedtime until he was at least 9 months & then it was only because he was grumpy at about the same time every day! It was more a case of us noticing his routine than setting it! He still goes to bed later than most of his peers but then he'll sleep in in the mornings. It works for us. Figure out what works for you & ignore the babies who can do backflips or recite the complete works of Shakespeare by 2 weeks old. No-one will care when they first rolled over once they start school. It won't matter when they learnt to walk or talk when they're doing their A levels & employers won't be interested in how early they could count to 10... Unless you plan on getting her a job in a circus side-show as "The Amazing Counting Baby"! wink

(Yy to bring though, if you do feel consistently low/hopeless you might want to consider the possibility of PND. It's scary to admit when you're not coping but with depression it's best to identify & tackle it early!)

Have some brew & biscuit & a little wine & plenty of cake & flowers & look after yourself!

Agnu how very dare you!! wink
I am abit in love with my routine I'm afraid lol it's only because when I had dd1 and didn't know what I was doing I felt so out of control and like a bad parent somewhat what libs describing, for me having a book to read to give me an idea and getting a structure in place made me feel like I was back in control I like control even if its only for a small part, having two made it even more important as my dd1 is a very loveable terror whirlwind
I need sleep to deal with it, believe me!
Frus, have you heard from thunder? I hope she is well

Librarina Tue 20-Aug-13 09:15:17

Thank you ladies. It's just felt like a really tough couple of days/weeks/months. DH being at home all weekend actually made me feel worse cos he was so good with her, i just felt like the boob machine. Yesterday though he took her so I could nap, which I couldn't as usual, but instead of lying there fuming I did my pregnancy yoga DVD which made me feel much better.

Had my post natal GP check yesterday and she said the emotions roller coaster is normal and so long as I'm enjoying my baby I should be all right but I'll ask DH to keep an eye on me.

Ok, I'm going to stop worrying about what is going to happen and how I could be failing her in the future and concentrate on NOW... Bearing in mind that there aren't baby groups every day and there are only so many massages you can give... What do you DO with your baby all day?

Thankyou, it really helps to know its not such a terrible thing to remember how much easier life was before baby

Lib- put her in a seat and run around like a headless chicken trying to chase dd1 or do housework!
( I'd like to say I was joking) she is starting to like toy things now with bright colours and noise things, when I had dd1 I tried to get out most days and either do a mother and tots group or meet friends for a coffee, a walk with her in the pram or visiting my family aunties and uncles that are retired etc, it was more for me to feel is done something I think

Lorelei353 Tue 20-Aug-13 09:47:21

Oh Lib hope you're doing okay. As the other first-timer on here I know how you feel. I had a really low day on Sunday (after a really tough night with DS on Sat night). I just felt tired of everything - tired of having no clothes to wear, tired of having to wear bras at night, tired of breast pads, tired of having to wear nursing tops, tired of being tired, tired of not being able to have a lovely bath or some time to myself, tired of not seeing my friends... tired of so many things. I'd give almost anything for a long, uninterrupted nights sleep on my own in my bed.

Also, there's the stress of not knowing what you're doing. I worry that DS will never manage to go to sleep without being bounced or fed (in fact, I started this reply over an hour ago but DS won't nap properly today so I had to stop to rock, bounce, feed, bounce and feed to get him down to sleep as yesterday he didn't nap well and was tired and miserable come evening). I worry because I KNOW he has wind and I can't always get it up, or don't persevere long enough because he's asleep and won't burp and I don't want to wake him but then he gets tummy pain and won't sleep. I worry because I haven't even started thinking about childcare for when I go back to work and everyone tells me his name should be down somewhere by now. I worry because I don't have any routine. I worry because although DH has been amazing, he seems to be following my lead with regards to parenting and I don't know anything!

It's all been really overwhelming. But, ultimately, I love him more than anything (along with DH). I look at his little face when feeding and just feel a surge of love and I'll just figure the rest out eventually.

But, do keep ranting on here to us. Venting is good for you. Also, do seek help if you feel you need it. You won't be the first mum to need support and you won't be the last. We're all here for you. flowers

Lorelei353 Tue 20-Aug-13 09:52:47

I forgot to say for me my lowest moments come when I'm not just tired, but when I haven't eaten enough. Low blood sugar = tears in this house.

AGnu Tue 20-Aug-13 10:03:18

kitty I need to feel in control too but I find I need to take control back from what I feel the world expects of me & do things my way! I've never read any parenting books purely because they'd just make me doubt myself & make me feel like I wasn't doing it 'right'. I'd get exhausted trying to follow someone else's schedule!

Lib with DS1 I mostly did what I did pre-DC, just with him with me. That involved watching TV & sleeping! I've never been someone who has to do things. I like just chilling out at home! Weirdly enough, having children & getting rid of the tv has changed that & I feel a bit aimless if I don't have DS1 demanding to be fed/played with at set times! He gives my day structure... & I've only just realised it! confused No idea when that happened!

DS2 is currently sticking his tongue out at me & grinning when I copy him! grin DS1 is watching the binmen through the window from his cot. We've not got up yet! Some people may think it's lazy but I know DS1 will be very active & demanding attention once we are up & I get burnt out very easily. I want to be able to play with him & be patient & happy all day. I can't risk getting depressed again with 2 DC to look after so I shall do whatever I feel necessary to get us through each day in the most pleasant way possible!

<Sticks tongue out at all parenting books ever written!> grin

Lorelei353 Tue 20-Aug-13 10:15:03

I have no idea what I do all day. It's a cycle of feeding, putting DS on his activity mat and watching him bash things, smile, and copying the sounds he makes, putting him in his bouncer if he needs to switch off a bit the putting him back to sleep. When he's asleep I'll be making lunch,eating lunch, clearing up, putting washes on etc.

FrussoHathor Tue 20-Aug-13 13:51:12

When it's just me and ds I stop on the sofa and watch tv, and alternate ds between the play gym, my boob, and my shoulder. Yup. That's about it. Oh and change his nappy.

When dds are home, I do the above plus running around like a manic, stressed, headless chicken. grin but I won't scare you with dd2

lib you need to teach her the zoolander pout. wink

AGnu Tue 20-Aug-13 16:11:03

DS2's weight gain is tailing off. It's all happening again! sad

FrussoHathor Tue 20-Aug-13 16:50:35

Have you heard back from your email? phoned your new contacts?

AGnu Tue 20-Aug-13 17:23:15

Yes, MBL replied saying she's happy to see us & offered us an appt on Thurs but DH is supposed to be driving to the other side of the country & back for work! He hardly ever has to go anywhere! sad I can't stand the thought of doing it by myself. I'll be in no fit state to drive if she says there's no PTT! I'm really tempted to just send DS2 with DH, since we just need her to look in his mouth! Wimp!
DH rang her earlier so they could find a time to suit them both but had to leave a message & she's not rung back yet.

FrussoHathor Tue 20-Aug-13 18:00:47

Oh agnu that's the day after tomorrow. And she agreed to look. This is positive. Oh I do hope you get a soon appointment if you can rearrange. If you can't could you do it alone/have someone you could take with you?

Librarina Tue 20-Aug-13 19:22:25

Oh Agnu, I'm glad you're going to be seen, I know what you mean about needing the support for a significant appointment, I took DH with me to N's Imms yesdterday as I was worried about the drive after with a screaming baby, turns out she was fine!

Lor, you're right, I struggle when I'm hungry and I'm a bugger for getting dehydrated and not realising. I'm completely with you on the stress, especially when it comes to wind...it's a choice, post boob snooze happy but grumpy baby later!

Had a nice day with her today. I camped out at my Mums (who was away last week, hence why i struggled now i realise!) and took her for a walk in the sling, breastfed her in it walked further then she napped and i successfully got her out and she napped for a further 30 mins not in the sling but sucking my finger... That's progress!

We celebrate progress lib grin

Agnu hope you get another app or find someone to go with you, being seen in Thursday would be great and don't look at the negative, if its not then she may be able to tell you why you've had such difficulty

Small victories make all the difference!

So glad you got the apt agnu!! Please just go to hear what she has to say. If anything else, she may be able to help you in other ways as well as not gaining weight is definitely a sign of something not going the way it's supposed to.

Took kids to a children's museum and wanted to cut my head off So many screaming, obnoxious children running around and my two heading off in two different directions so I have no idea where to even look to make sure they're ok. Annnnnd now the boys are back home and are acting like they're going to kill each other and are screaming at each other outside--I can only imagine what the neighbors are thinking-- DS1 is such a d** head sometimes.

damn, cross out text FAIL. <waaaaaah> I just want a nap and for September to be here so I can pretend that I only have 1 child for a while.

FrussoHathor Tue 20-Aug-13 22:07:23

How long do you have left bring? I have 2 weeks to get through. I have been watching dd1 and have witnessed enough of her winding dd2 up to have decided to let them fight/squabble sort it out by themselves minus the sympathy. They are definately as sneaky bad as each other. 2weeks until I have 1 baby at home.

I've had too many carbs today and feel bleugh.

And my secret is that bfing is making my joints ache. And half the time I feel nauseous whilst feeding hence all the carbs and ds will only feed properly when i'm lying down. And his feet kick my legs. Which makes the skin on my legs feel like theyre burning. And I just want to snuggle him at night but it hurts and makes me feel more sick sad

2 weeks. 2 weeks. 2 weeks. 14 more days. 14 more days. I must keep telling myself this. I just let them fight it out too, but I'm really f'n sick of having to listen to it and constantly shouting at them to leave the poor baby ALONE.

My secret is that I've been shouting yelling,screaming far too much today and I really don't like the little walking, talking, fighting people that I've had to be around lately.

AGnu Wed 21-Aug-13 00:48:33

It'll all be worth it eventually... When they've got DC of their own & come running to us like we're parenting gurus! & we can steal their snuffly little bundles & hand them back when they poo/puke/scream! grin

AGnu Wed 21-Aug-13 15:14:23

Eep! Tomorrow is the only day MBL can do before she goes away again! Am going to have to find a last minute babysitter for DS1 & go by myself! sad

Librarina Wed 21-Aug-13 17:52:56

AGnu, be brave my lovey, it MIT just be the appointment that makes all the difference.

I've made an appointment at the Docs, it has been suggested that I must have a spot of PND, apparently you're not supposed to dread spending the day with your baby. I didn't know that, I thought it was normal to fear them waking up.

Librarina Wed 21-Aug-13 17:53:38

And such love to you all for sharing your secrets. A secret shared feels better x

FrussoHathor Wed 21-Aug-13 17:57:03

You can do it agnu think strong. Big hugs and a big [gin]

FrussoHathor Wed 21-Aug-13 19:26:42

lib hugs for you to my sweet. I am glad that you are seeing a doctor. And pleased that it is early on.

thanks Lib you've been so brave and funny x
P.s I hope my kids stay asleep every morning too!

Lorelei353 Wed 21-Aug-13 21:42:05

Good luck tomorrow agnu.

lib I'm so glad you're seeking some help. I really hope you'll get a lift and feel more like yourself and start enjoying things a bit more soon.

Thinking of you dear, lib I think you feel so much better once you're able to just speak with someone about what you're experiencing. PND is way more prevalent that it seems and there's nothing wrong with you. Hormones can be a bitch (as they tend to be the culprit of it!).

FWIW, I like it when the kids keep sleeping too smile

Good luck agnu Not ideal to have to go it alone, but I really hope she's able to get you some answers!

I'm thinking I'm going to have to take M and myself to an LC. She's developed a really bad habit of not getting a great seal and letting her tongue slip when she opens her jaw to pull in the milk. Pretty sure it's not anything tie-related, but something to do with her suction ability. It's getting really annoying, but thankfully it's not affecting her getting enough milk (yet). I almost wonder if I should get her in for more cranial work and see if it resolves just typing out my own random thoughts

FrussoHathor Wed 21-Aug-13 23:52:02

I'm beginning to wonder if ds looks like a girl. I've had 2 people today comment on "her" being beautiful and what's "her" name type conversations. hmm

FrussoHathor Thu 22-Aug-13 09:32:16

Morning all <pretends to to wide awake>

AGnu Thu 22-Aug-13 10:04:45

Morning Frus!

DS2 woke me at 4 this morning but I managed to shove a finger in his mouth settle him quickly only to be woken by DS1 at 5! He's never wanted to cuddle in our bed before but woke up screaming & clung to me when I went in! He spent the next half hour snuggled up with me pointing out various things around the room before starting to look sleepy. I put him back when DS2 started disturbing again at 5.25 & just as I fed him, DH's alarm went off & I had to shout at him to wake him to turn it off before it disturbed DS1 again! Both boys are still asleep now & I'm hiding in MN-world trying to pretend I have nothing to do today! I do at least have a babysitter lined up for DS1 who lives right next to the hospital!

I feel sick & am wandering round the house feeling like I'm hardly breathing but I'm terrified that if I try to breathe more deeply I'll end up hyperventilating. I miss my diazepam prescription! blush

<Goes back to hiding from lovely people who say nice things & make me cry!> wink

Eh, oh well frus Hes can be beautiful too smile DS2 is always being called a girl, she, her, etc. b/c of his lovely curly locks (despite him wearing blue outfits with dumptrucks on them hmm )

Off to the fair for my birffffday. Yay for junk food!

FrussoHathor Thu 22-Aug-13 14:05:38

It's okay to cry agnu

FrussoHathor Thu 22-Aug-13 14:12:02

Happy birffffffday to you bring! have some wine and cake grin

AGnu Thu 22-Aug-13 15:16:35

Anyone a fan of The Big Bang Theory? "I informed you thusly!" wink

She described it as a very small one & didn't seem confident that it would help much but I could see straight away when he was screaming that he was holding his tongue in a different position! He really didn't want to feed straight after but eventually latched on & sucked gently to calm himself down. Fell straight to sleep in the wrap when we started walking & is now wriggling on the floor cooing to himself! grin She said it could take a little while for him to adjust his feeding but fx we're on the way to feeding comfortably!

<Happy dance> Everyone come join my party! cake & wine for all!

Happy birthday bring! Extra cake & wine for you!

FrussoHathor Thu 22-Aug-13 15:32:28

Yay! see moms do know best when it comes to their child Fx it helps for you agnu. Now the hard work begins with re-teaching him to latch on properly.
You can see it straight away cant you! Do you think his mouth/smile is a different shape too? We've only had wide mouth grins since frus jnr was snipped.

FrussoHathor Thu 22-Aug-13 15:33:32

Are you doing the "I knew it" song too. grin

AGnu Thu 22-Aug-13 16:11:01

He's feeding from the bad side. It's not agony! Not entirely comfortable either but I'm not having to fight the urge to fling him across the room! That's definitely a marked improvement already! grin

Not sure if his mouth shape is different but his tongue looks fat when he pokes it out now & it's less bowl-shaped when he cries. I think it'll eventually flatten even more - it kinda looks confused when he's crying, like it's used to being bowl-shaped but isn't being forced to be anymore!

I got lost on the way to the appt! blush I arranged for a friend who lives nearby to have DS1 & left the car on her drive. It should've only been a 10 minute walk but there's some construction going on & I thought I wasn't going to be able to get through. I ended up being 10 minutes late, sweaty, out of breath & terrified she wouldn't see us. She was held up with urgent calls for another 10 minutes! Gave me enough time to have some water & cool/calm down a bit!

Just let him suck on my finger when he'd finished his non-agonising, 17 minute feed & his tongue feels really flat. I guess he'd been bringing the front of his tongue up more to try & compensate for not being able to move the back!

As if all that weren't exciting enough, my oven's just been fixed so I can bake cookies to celebrate in an oven that won't over-do them hopefully!

FrussoHathor Thu 22-Aug-13 18:04:37

I am so happy for you agnu

That's brilliant news Agnu, really pleased for you and it was worth that second opinion especially as its not cost hundreds

Bring happy birthday yummy mummy

I have returned to worst mother award, I forgot kittens jabs AGAIN! I mean seriously what is wrong with me!
I had even turned down going out with my mum 2 hrs earlier because I said I had her app then lost track of time and it was bloody 4 ( app at 3:30) so angry with myselfangry

Lib- my secret isn't much of a secret, I'm clearly just f&@king useless lol

AGnu Thu 22-Aug-13 22:59:33

Lol! Oh dear kitty! I'm forever forgetting things at the moment. I've started setting reminders on my phone when I remember to but I have to set several to poke me in the run up to anything or I'll forget that the reminder went off! hmm

Turns out the snip hasn't been a miracle cure. If anything, it's actually more painful on the right, but easier on the left. Fx it's just him getting used to his new tongue! He's been really happy most of the time since we left the hosp but screams like we're torturing him when he's hungry or just finished feeding! sad I keep telling myself we'll get there but it's really not helped by DH popping in & out of the room every 10s with random questions about whether I want to keep junk mail or asking me how it's feeling. Somehow he always manages to be elsewhere when DS2 is screaming though! angry

Yay agnu!! See, you knew something wasn't quite right. I've seen cranio work being done after a tongue-tie snip as being incredibly beneficial as it gives the muscles that were previously held in a certain position more room to move around correctly and helps baby to re-learn how to latch correctly. Hopefully it'll start being less painful for you asap!

Maybe subconsciously you're against the jabs kitty?

Cheers darlings! cake and wine for everyone! The fair was fun. Soooo rammed full of people and crazy hot...but lots of good food. We sat down in the shade for a beer and to listen to some music and DSs were tackling each other on the grass. DS1 came barreling into me head-to-head and I think the little sh** gave me a bloody concussion! I know I wasn't that tipsy but straight after it happened I was super dizzy and I've had a sore knob on my head + a headache since. There's my birthday pressie from DS1 hmm

FrussoHathor Thu 22-Aug-13 23:51:04

Have you given him calpol agnu he should settle down with his soreness and that heartbreaking cry by the end of tomorrow.
You'll get there, he just feels funny and different like having your tongue pierced, or braces but he doesn't get why his comfort doesn't feel the same, But with perseverance at big mouth latch as i've named it you'll both figure it out.
My lady said the snipping was the easy bit, the hard bit is teaching him to nurse again with newfound tongue movement.

kitty how could you? She'll get a letter about non-attendance.
I also have at least 4 alarms per event on my phone. I am that bad.

FrussoHathor Thu 22-Aug-13 23:55:31

Ouch bring
--I'd like to say my girls don't fight. But I can't. 11/12 days until I can have a daytime nap and not have a trashed house. And quiet. Ooohh the quiet.

I know hmm i did ring at 4 and say we were running really late could we still come now but they said better to re arrange, definatly not against the jabs bring, I've had dd1 done with no worries, think its just I get distracted by one wanting me or crying etc and that's it, I had remember it was that day etc just missed the time
Buggar buggar buggar

FrussoHathor Fri 23-Aug-13 08:20:06

Best start early kitty then you won't feel guilty when you forget to pick the dcs up from school. wink. Never done that myself wink well not too often

AGnu Fri 23-Aug-13 08:44:02

When have you arranged them for now? Maybe between us all we can remember & remind you on Facebook!

Lol it's next Thursday at 2:30
I shal hold you all responsible if I forget again wink

FrussoHathor Fri 23-Aug-13 08:48:59

Right kitty it's in my diary. grin Megan will get her injections. wink

AGnu Fri 23-Aug-13 10:32:13

I've got reminders set for 24, 3, 2 & 1hrs! Between us all we'll get you there! grin

Lib how are you doing?

Thanks girls lolgrin

FrussoHathor Fri 23-Aug-13 13:38:23


Anyone want my dds?

AGnu Fri 23-Aug-13 15:19:19

Yes please! They've got lovely hair. I want a little girl to dress in pretty clothes with long hair to plait. They'll both sit still while I play with their hair all day, right? wink

FrussoHathor Fri 23-Aug-13 17:19:17

Oh yes agnu definately not

Dd1 can can't sit still for love nor money.
Dd2 does have lovely ringlets/curls when she hasn't seen a hairbrush in 3 days she has hypersensitive hair/scalp in the build up to a major meltdown
You can dress dd1 in pretty dresses though. and then watch her tuck it in her pants and race the boys on her bike
Dd2 will let you put her in pretty dresses as long as she gets to choose the stompy boots shoes to go with it. grin

FrussoHathor Fri 23-Aug-13 17:20:17

I sell them well don't i? grin

I throw in a couple of wild little boys for a 4 for 2 deal for anyone who's interested.

M's got her jabs today. Feeling really nervous about it.

The eldest is great at locking all the doors and then slamming them shut for anyone who's interested. <desperately looking around for the keys....>

FrussoHathor Fri 23-Aug-13 17:23:35

Send them over bring we can release them into the wild let them play in the garden.
Poor M. sad

FrussoHathor Fri 23-Aug-13 17:25:15

Swap ya bring dd2 likes to unlock and run. They'd be great together. Are you locked in or out?

Bring don't worry about the jabs, just don't go like me grin

AGnu Fri 23-Aug-13 19:16:30

Bring how much do you charge for postage & what's your returns policy? wink

peardrop2 Fri 23-Aug-13 21:51:46

Happy bank holiday everyone...except bring as this means nothing to you :-/

I now understand what a growth spurt feels like! Will be happy when my body decides to catch up!

Haha you guys are the best. He'd locked all of the upstairs bedroom/bathroom doors. Luckily the stupid doors are super old and don't latch well. M was sleeping in my room so thank god that one didn't work, although the only one that did latch was M's room where her clothes are....so not entirely sure what she's going to wear for bed I knew I shouldn't have done laundry today and actually put it all away as I don't have the keys to that door and it's still currently locked shut.

No returns or refunds. Final sale only.

Jabs went about as good as shooting a baby in the thigh with diseases and heavy metals would go expected. I totally cried b/c of course the first time M busts out the tears is after her jabs (4 of them! They are cruel over here). She's being a trooper now though.

How are things today lib?

Lorelei353 Sat 24-Aug-13 10:23:04

I am not a well mummy today. Began to feel achy all over last night and had a light temperature going to bed. Been functioning on paracetamol since. Fortunately DH has taken over. I feed DS and DH then takes over everything else. I haven't had so much sleep since he was born.

I don't think it's mastitis. I have a slightly sore boob in one spot but it's not hot, or lumpy or very painful and it doesn't hurt to feed him.

peardrop2 Sat 24-Aug-13 10:32:18

Poor you Lor hmm Hope you feel better very soon! It's good that your DH is around to help you out. Maybe it's just a 24hr bug?

Anyone have any teething tips? I read somewhere that you can't give babies teething gel but then I heard some mum talking about using gels so I'm now confused!

Baby pear has just screamed in his bath again hmm that's 3 days in a row now (tried a morning bath today to see if it made a difference). The temp is 38oC so it's not cold and not too hot. I wonder whether its because he is teething? Maybe he's just groggy this week! He used to like sing song time in the bath hmm

Lorelei353 Sat 24-Aug-13 11:23:43

Thanks pear. I've been reading up on kellymom and am treating my slightly sore breast as if it has a slight blocked duct. DS had a good feed from it earlier and have put a heat ack on it and am now expressing to drain it fully. Hopefully will sort it out!

I'm sure you can use gel for babies pear, is it ambosol ? It has a pic of a baby on the box, my friend said it was really good although we never had teething problems so were lucky, other people aware by the amber teething bracelets
Dd1 used to hate the bath as a baby, maybe give him a break from it for a few days and try again
Hope you feel better soon lor and its not boob related

peardrop2 Sat 24-Aug-13 12:54:22

Kitty thanks I thought I'll try bathing again in a couple of days. I think baby pear is ultra sensitive! He certainly knows what he does and doesn't want (and so does the entire street)! Sleep through the night and don't teethe? Where did you get these perfect kittens from?? I need to know for next time wink

peardrop2 Sat 24-Aug-13 13:01:00

Has anyone tried a gummee glove?

FrussoHathor Sat 24-Aug-13 13:21:58

I've only ever used nelsons teething powder.

I'm a bad bad horrible cruel mummy. I hurt frus jnr. I'm mean and evil and make him cry with tears, and bleed real blood. sad I didn't mean to maim him. I was attempting to cut his nails. sad sad sad bad bad mummy
<runs away to snuggle ds and cry>

AGnu Sat 24-Aug-13 16:11:29

Oh Frus it's awful when that happens! I did that to DS1 at about this age & have refused to cut anyone's nails but my own since! DH does DS1 & I nibble DS2's. I rang my parents in tears because his tiny finger bled loads for maybe a minute!

Hope you feel better soon Lor!

Anyone seen Lib recently?

Silly question... What should an EBF baby's nappy look like at this age? DS2 has just done his first dirty since a few hours after his revision & it's very different to his 'normal' nappies. Previously it'd been slightly greeny/browny-yellow & quite runny/mucousy but this one was very mustard yellow & a much thicker, paste-like consistency. I know it should be yellow but should it be so thick? DS1's were always green & mucousy because he has a tongue tie too so I don't know any different! confused

Lorelei353 Sat 24-Aug-13 16:30:38

They sound like my DS nappies of late. They're more browny/yellow and thicker.

FrussoHathor Sat 24-Aug-13 17:06:29

agnu thats a good sign that he's getting more hindmilk. So must be feeding more effectively. they will vary between runny yellow mustard and thicker yellow mustard with bits in.

Ds has forgiven me now for maiming him.

peardrop2 Sat 24-Aug-13 18:18:27

Yep yellow paste is what we're getting. Nightmare to clean!

FrussoHathor Sat 24-Aug-13 18:24:24

Hi pear <waves> how are you doing? How's baby pear doing?
Im finding i have to go cooler with baths at the moment.

Lorelei353 Sat 24-Aug-13 20:26:31

Definitely got a sore boob now. There's a big red patch under the breast. It didn't hurt to feed though and there's no lump.

I've expressed, fed a lot, had heat packs on it and had a shower during which I combed the breast and expressed. Hopefully it'll just clear up. sad

FrussoHathor Sat 24-Aug-13 23:02:28

lore alternate ibuprofen with the paracetamol, and drink lots and i mean lots and lots and lots of water to combat the headache that comes with the high temperature. And do as little as possible over the next few days. Mine always turns up after I've been over doing things. So don't do too much.

AGnu Sun 25-Aug-13 00:02:22

That's good then! Although, it is a nightmare to clean off him. I think I preferred the easy-to-clean mucous!

Lor I hope it doesn't develop further! Take care of yourself!

How does one go from "my boss has quietly resigned" to discussing the condition of a cricket pitch field? ground? next to a hill fort, via an in-depth analysis of local vs national politics? I just spent 1.5 hours 'listening' to said conversation which also somehow involved fracking & how the atmosphere is going to be unbreathable in 100k years & have absolutely no idea how one topic followed on from another! I get a very special sort of headache when staying with my PILs, especially if BIL comes round. It's a bit like when you spin around really quickly until you can't stand up... It's like trying to think straight in a word-whirlwind!

Try to have a nurse-in with the little guy. Lots of skin-to-skin and like frus said LOTS of water. You can also use grated raw potato poultices on the red and sore area to help draw out the infection. And keep doing what you're doing with the moist heat to keep the milk flowing. If you do get a high temp and are just feeling generally horrible, best to get the anti-b's.

Wow agnu that sounds like a fantastic way to spend your Saturday hmm.

M hates baths as well pear!! And she's also in the nasty yellow paste category. I must have forgotten about this stage, for some reason I just assumed it was always yellow and seedy. <shrug> Also....<whispers> I totally cheated on the cloth nappies and switched to (ego friendly) 'sposies. Wow. So much easier to deal with with two psychos running around.

Awww frus I've done it as well. It's really sad when it happens! You're still a wonderful mum even though you tried to cut off his finger wink

Went to a prenatal/mummy/birth worker outdoor yoga event today with M. Was super fun! Ran into a ton of gals that I know and it felt fantastic to just leave little boys with DH to deal with for the day. Ahhhhh, a non-stressful day. It was 87 degrees out though, which made for a very sweaty experience for baby and I. Yuck.

Yy to frus I too have maimed cut kittens nail, never did dd1 but tried to cut hers when she was only 2wks or something and totally got the top of her finger, there was so much blood, I think her nails wernt strong enough hmm
Pear, good babies, I buy them wink
We still may have a tether with kitten but dd1 was just always good, I always new when shed have a new tooth as bless her shed let out a little scream/cry in the night, always just the one, never wake up then in the morning there would be a little bloody wet patch on her sheets! She's quite robust though and not a cuddler, very indipendant
I still have the grainy nappys but remember they went to yellow paste at about 16wks with dd1 as wondered if it was her tummys digestion altering
Lor hope you make a speedy recovery

Lorelei353 Sun 25-Aug-13 10:16:02

Good morning. Thanks for All the advice. I think things are improving. I don't feel great today but not as I'll as yesterday I think. Also I don't think the area is as sore today although its still quite red - although Kellymom says that can last up to a week after the duct has been cleared. I still haven't had a fever at any point so I reckon it's a blocked duct and not full-on M.

I think I got it from feeding DS while sitting cross-legged on blankets in the park twice his week. I wasn't in a really optimal position and a) my bra may have been pinching the underneath of my breast and b) I don't think DS latch as great as we were a bi awkward, especially since I usually feed him on a pillow.

AGnu Sun 25-Aug-13 18:24:54

DS2 is hungry today! We've not really had hungry days like this before. He had settled into a 5-a-day baby but has been demanding to be fed at least every 2.5 hours since 6.30am. If he'll only go another 2.5hrs now then he'll have had 6 feeds today & still manage to get to bed by 8.30! I've got a feeling that he's going to be a chunky boy like his daddy was now that he can feed more effectively! He had been happy with 4-5oz before the snip but now gulps down 6oz easily & sometimes squeals as if it's not enough! We'll be breaking out the bigger bottles when we get home! grin I've always wanted a chunky, squishable baby!

AGnu Sun 25-Aug-13 18:32:59

I want to go see MBL's colleague & do Elliot's "I told you so" dance from Scrubs! wink

FrussoHathor Sun 25-Aug-13 19:32:35

Do it! Do it!

AGnu Sun 25-Aug-13 20:23:36

DFIL is currently telling DH about their plans to build a ridiculously large greenhouse - something like 9x5m! They don't want it for fruit trees or anything useful... Oh no, they want to build the world's biggest greenhouse so they can grow Australian flowers. hmm I thought they were joking when they first mentioned it! More money than sense! FIL gets these mad ideas sometimes & most of the time it's only mentioned a couple of times before being forgotten but if it's a really <ahem> unusual completely bonkers idea he's more likely to try & see it through!

AGnu Sun 25-Aug-13 20:42:06

Lol, I would Frus but I'm too scared I have too much dignity to ever behave with so little decorum. wink If I ever happen to see her again I shall gloat be gracious in my superior knowledge of her specialised career choice triumph correct interpretation of the obvious difficult to diagnose situation. grin

I'm seriously considering looking into becoming a lactation consultant. I have visions of convincing the NHS to hire me as a part time consultant. I could go along to the health visitors' weighing clinic & be available to provide additional support to anyone struggling with feeding/weight gain etc. It'd be fab! It would also only cost the NHS however much I decided to charge for 1.5hrs a week & take the pressure off the hospital feeding specialists so they'd have more time to help mothers establish feeding in the first place! I know some of the women at the breastfeeding group I went to are doing IBCLC training so hopefully there wouldn't be a need for me by the time I actually got round to training! There's going to be a whole army of IBCLCs in our area! grin

Lorelei353 Sun 25-Aug-13 21:20:55

5 or 6 times a day? I feed DS about twice as often as that! shock

FrussoHathor Sun 25-Aug-13 21:30:34

Don't worry lore frus jnr seems to be permanently clamped onto my nipple. I've ordered a gumdrop pacifier in the vain hope that he'll comfort suck that rather than me.

Kittens only on 4/5 now!! I keep worrying is she going to get enough hmm , she seems chunky enough, everytime I give her the bottle now she sucks it dry and demands more so must be 5/6oz atleast and alot more in the morning, quite often in the day though I think my boobs feel totally empty do you think they will dry up because they are not being used enough??

peardrop2 Sun 25-Aug-13 21:48:57

Frus ~ what's so good about them? Oh lord...do not let me buy any more dummies hmm

FrussoHathor Sun 25-Aug-13 22:20:14

They produce what kitten needs kitty, at kittens age you won't be feeling overful like the early days. unless you miss a couple of feeds and kitten has probably mastered the nack of getting what she wants/needs effectively.

2 different mums/baby's could both take 5oz, but one could do it in 7minutes and the other in 40minutes purely illustrative and times/amounts are random and both are perfectly normal. Same with numbers of feeds in a day. Some people/babies like set meal times and don't snack, and others are grazers and eat little and often.

Frus jnr would be happy to remain attached most of the day, Although I know he's not always feeding, but if his comfort suckling results in letdown he won't say no. But then he's always been a bit of a piggy

pear apparently it's lighter and nipple shaped. Do you need another dummy? Have you tried them all?

Dds loved cherrys, ds however gags on them. I've tried other shapes but ds just wants me. To the point that I have to prise his mouth open to even go to the loo. At which point he wakes up, and we start again.

AGnu Mon 26-Aug-13 00:06:13

I think I'd be taping a dummy to DS2's mouth if he wanted to feed that much! blush He does spend a good proportion of the day with a finger in his mouth though!

Day 2/2 with my PILs & tonight's conversation began with how lovely SE Ireland is for a holiday & ended with a lecture about how house construction moved from single halls to multi-room/storey buildings with the entire history of the Quakers & the establishment of the state of Pennsylvania thrown in along the way! hmm Home tomorrow! Via banana-pushing great-grandma's house! grin

Pear no more dummy's <waves stern finger> atleast until frus road tests it for you
Thanks for the reasurance frus, they are very pammy esk in the morning, I have been missing the express at 10 at night as I just can't be bothered and too tired but now the kittens are asleep and I'm sat up in bed with the breast shells in hmm

peardrop2 Mon 26-Aug-13 09:08:50

Frus ~ not every dummy but I certainly have at least 20 unwanted brands sitting in my salad bowl wink

Kitty ~ don't worry I'm done with buying dummies & bottles grin

FrussoHathor Mon 26-Aug-13 10:05:26

Ah see agnu jnr won't take a finger. And I like snuggling him. He's happy and independent in the mornings, but he struggles after lunchtime. And needs comforting as he gets scared.
I'll test drive it for you pear wink

peardrop2 Mon 26-Aug-13 10:16:36

Baby pear is sitting up on in his own when I hold his hands. Is anyone else's babies doing this yet? Seems like yesterday we were bringing our little bunny rabbit home shock

Bonjela seems to be working better this morning as he's now got the idea of what it does. The Nelson stuff looks interesting Frus!

So if baby pear is teething everyday how long does it take for the first tooth to appear? Days, weeks or months? Or is it completely unknown? I can't see anything appearing from his gum line. I hope it's not bad everyday for a whole month because I can't give Calpol every night can I hmm

FrussoHathor Mon 26-Aug-13 11:40:34

Frus jnr is too pear, he wans to be upright all the time. baby pear must have strong core muscles. smile

Dd2 didn't sit unaided until 13mths, where as dd1 was doing it at 4mths. So there is a huge window in which they can do it.

I wouldn't give calpol every night. Teething can take any of the times you suggested. And sometimes the just appear and you wonder when they cut that one.
Are you sure he's teething? Is he grumbly every night?

Librarina Mon 26-Aug-13 13:51:30


I'm ok, i got given some anti depressnts (Sertraline if you know it?) but i only took them for one day as they made me feel so absolutely awful i couldnt take care of N. we then had a lovely and busy weekend which made me feel loads better and I thought I was fine, but had a bad night, combined with a quiet day at home today and the panic and anxiety are back. But I keep telling myself that they don't feel as bad as I did on the Medication. I know there's a settling in period with a drug but it was too harsh. I've another Doc appointment this week so I'll ask what the alternative might be.

I know in my logical brain that its hard to be a mummy, but it feels too hard so much of the time. And it's hard to talk about it, and it's hard to ask for help. The only blessing is how lovely my baby is, I just have to keep telling myself that.

peardrop2 Mon 26-Aug-13 15:09:02

Frus, yes it's definitely teething because he dribbles and is constantly chewing on fingers. I'm going to go and buy a ring to put in the fridge in a minute. Really didn't expect it to start so soon!

peardrop2 Mon 26-Aug-13 15:13:14

Lib, sorry that you're having to deal with an extra challenge as well as look after baby. I think the phrase give yourself time to adapt is really key for us all in these first few months. Especially us first time mummies! Nobody has a good day everyday...some days are good some days are quite honestly tiring smilebut I realise what you're saying is you feel you have more bad then good hmm Have you joined any mummy groups or are you around any new mums? It really helps to meet up with new mums and have a good old moan occasionally :-)

Yes lib speak to the doctor about an alternative, you may well get better without then but at the same time why struggle through even a few weeks when there may be a medication out there that helps you to enjoy every day without nasty side effects, even if its not a drug but a natural remedy or someone to talk to like a support group,
Kitten likes to be upright all the time too, I sit with her on my knee etc but she's no where neer sitting unaided, I'd say rolling will be soon though and the other morning she had crawled/ pulled herself the whole length of the cot. Length wise she is allready at the end of 3-6 months shock where is my little bub I took home??
Is it wrong I need a beer allready, 2 kids to each one adult me and dsis at the zoo on a bank holl does a stressful day make!

FrussoHathor Mon 26-Aug-13 17:42:39

Hey lib I've not been on sertraline, I've only ever been given fluoxetine. Which can take a few weeks to kick in, but always been able to function "normally" on them.

peardrop2 Mon 26-Aug-13 20:23:40

What's everyone putting their babies to sleep in? Is a vest and baby grow too hot in a 25oC room?

FrussoHathor Mon 26-Aug-13 21:11:52

I'm not sure what temperature our room is pear but jnr has either, a sleepsuit, a shirtsleeve vest, or pjs. Think our room is stiflingly hot, as we have a fan on at night, and jnr doesn't have a cover.
I think I depends on the child, and whether they like to be warm or cool. I generally strip a layer of jnr if his belly feels clammy.

Ours is 25 too pear, I've been putting kitten in a short sleeved vest and 1tog sleeping bag with it not zipped all the way round so the bottom is open for abit of air, if I had her in a sleep suit I wouldn't put a vest aswell, we use the sleeping bag as a method to stop her moving so much aswell, when she was in the suit she was at the other end of the cot in a few hours, the bag hinders her attempts to escape grin

I know how you're feeling Lib I've been there and I just want you to know that you're not alone. I hope that you are finding the outlets to vent and to feel like your feelings are being validated. We are all always here for you! I'm afraid I don't know a lot about antidepressants, as I haven't taken them before but I hope you are able to get it sorted. Have you been able to find a referral for a therapist or counselor to speak with as well? If you're feeling like the anti-d's are too much there are natural routes too. I have some experience (personal and professional) with using Vitamin D supplements, fish oils (DHA), GABA, B-complex, Iron and 5-HTP to help boost the serotonin and dopamine levels in the brain and to support the nervous system. I don't know about you, but I found it really hard to get myself up, dressed, ds ready, and actually get out of the house to find a mother's group where I knew no one. It terrified me. I felt so unsure of who I was anymore in the first place and felt so judged and totally incapable every time ds would even make a tiny noise in public that the thought of being around all these mums who were coping well made me cry. DH kept telling me to go to them, MIL kept telling me to go, the GP I saw told me to go (she was awful when I finally got enough courage to go and see her. She just told me to "get on with it" and that she "can't just wave a magic wand and make it better" so she didn't know why I was there....which just made me cry even harder. It was one of those moments I'll never forget). If you're not up for mum's groups, the helplines might be nice to be able to talk to someone without having to speak to them in person. Pandas Foundation (0843 2898 401) and House of Light (0800 043 2031) have volunteers who have all experienced PND, so they know what it's like and can offer an empathetic shoulder to lean on. I am so passionate about PND b/c I've been there and I so wish I would have gotten help for myself sooner b/c it was months of very dark days. Thankfully even after the shitty GP experience, she got me a referral for psychotherapy and starting the speaking process helped tremendously.

Have I made a rod for my own back by bribing dd with chocolate to use the potty? It was more first because I wanted to get her over the fear of trying/doing it, she hadnt since she was 9 months old so I think was scared so we bought her a big chocolate bunny ( the poo poo bunny lol) and it worked she did it, loves the applaud etc however now expects chocolate every time confused

peardrop2 Tue 27-Aug-13 13:24:36

Hah hah kitty grin bunny poo! What would Alison say about that?! wink

peardrop2 Tue 27-Aug-13 13:25:22

2nd lot of injections went a lot better then the first lot...thank The Lord!

FrussoHathor Tue 27-Aug-13 15:27:15

kitty I wrote you a reply this morning. And must have forgotten to press post. blush

I'll try again.
Not a rod, a bargaining tool. Just do what all manipulative parents do and move the goal posts.
1 potty poo = poo rabbit.
1 week of potty poo = poo rabbit.
2 weeks of potty poo = poo rabbit.
Or use chocolate buttons. (Singular, so 1 poo=1 button, you could sell it as bunny food for the bunny in her tummy, unless of course she would freak out a bunny in tummy or demand the bunny is fed)
And a sticker reward chart in bathroom to mark progress. 5 stickers = reward. And then when it is achieved extend the number of stickers needed for the reward.

We used to use chocolate as a bribe for various things for dd2, until she decided that she didn't like chocolate. And refused to be bribed with it.

peardrop2 Tue 27-Aug-13 15:52:46

I really want chocolate buttons now after reading your post Frus hmm I've not had chocolate for a while because I'm watching what I eat when breastfeeding. I miss it!

We did switch to buttons frus but when I went to one she looked at me like I was mad, then said more! Lol
It did look measly so I gave her 4 but obviously if she does a few she's ingesting quite abit of chocolate, the bunny was a Thornton one and was big!! She ate it in one go and refused to save any, she loves chocolate, ill add a pic to show you it is very funny
Pear you are putting us all to shame, I've gorged on chocolate every day blushbiscuit

FrussoHathor Tue 27-Aug-13 17:44:33

I got given a box of chocs today. It would have been rude to refuse. grin

peardrop2 Tue 27-Aug-13 19:34:32

This chocolate talk is torture hmm Damn reflux!!!!! I'm having a chocolate/wine/cheese party in approx 3 months time! Which nicely coincides with Xmas wine

Mmmmmmmmmm. CHOCOLATE. Why must you taunt me so?

I feel like a mad scientist on my computer in the past 24 hrs. I've been selling off some of M's cloth nappies (so tons of emails, pictures, and paypal schtuff) and I'm the organizer of a birth worker-related workshop coming up in Nov (why, oh why did I agree to do this!?) so I've been on fb pretty much non-stop. I need a technology break. My kids are being neglected. ooops.

FrussoHathor Tue 27-Aug-13 22:10:36

Ds is being a whingy baby. He's tired and won't go to sleep. Aahhh. I feel a bit of Tim Minchen coming on.

peardrop2 Wed 28-Aug-13 07:51:08

I had to google this Tim M bloke as I had no idea who you're talking about...still don't brew

FrussoHathor Wed 28-Aug-13 08:22:15

tim minchen just for pear
grin was seriously the song of my evening last night. Why ds can't just go to sleep when he's tired. probably because he was struggling to nap yesterday
I have a £10 Argos voucher, I wonder if they have any cot mobiles at my local Argos. hmm

AGnu Wed 28-Aug-13 14:45:10

Psst... kitty, my phone is telling me that Megan's jabs are tomorrow!

FrussoHathor Wed 28-Aug-13 15:15:33

Poor Megan. I wonder if Megan has actually had any of her jabs?
Or if her mum is sitting at home thinking "who on earth is kitten?"

FrussoHathor Wed 28-Aug-13 17:19:59

I'm on strike. I am not doing a thing for DH or DDs until they all buck up their attitudes, take responsibility for their owb things and their own mess, and stop treating me like a doormat and talking to me like shit.
And in other news I h e a headache, again,
and I think jnrs grumbling is teething like baby pear pear so I'm armed with nelsons and calgel. and am hiding sulking in my room with ds, whilst DH is making dd tidying up downstairs.

Frus you are being treated like shit while I am cleaning it out of dd1s pants, nice!
I'm not sure if Megan has had any jabs but kitten has had one set and I'm determined to get her there tomorrow, determined I tell you!!!

Librarina Wed 28-Aug-13 18:43:43

Hi ladies, thanks for your kind replies, Trumpets, weirdly, I'm almost better when I go to a group, it gives me a reason t get up and dressed and I'm much happier when I'm out and about, it's when I'm stuck at home that I panic and feel inadequate and anxious.

I went t the Docs again today for my follow up and explained how the Anti-d's had made me feel, so we are trying a non drug approach. I'm taking Pregnacare Breastfeeding Vitamins to make sure I have enough Iron and B12 in me, that comes with a fish oil supplement too. Trumpets if you have any good info about using vitamins and suplements ti support mood id be interested in it. i was considering consulting a medical herbalist I know to enquire abt St Johns Wort or ither herbs ti make sure they are breastfeeding safe but im sticking with the Oregnacare for now as i know that it is.

I'm also making sure I get outside every day and see trees and eating/drinking enough...simple things but important for feeling better. If I can squeeze in a postnatal yoga then that's good too.

Finally the Doc has told me about MoodGym which is a free online CBT course which is can do at home so I'm going to give that a go.

I actually feel better for just admitting that I felt bad if that makes any sense. My Terrible Secret isn't that terrible, isn't really a secret and is comfortingly common.

Ps, I love Poo Bunny!

Librarina Wed 28-Aug-13 18:44:40

Also, how is it that our babies are teething already. N only got to sleep this rounding when I rubbed her lower gums with my thumb!

FrussoHathor Wed 28-Aug-13 19:36:55

I don't know lib it seems far too early. Especially when you think at this time last year we weren't even pregnant. shock
Ds is 15weeks already hush don't tell DH and DH is already commenting about "giving him flavoured water" and "different tastes" sad I'm not having any of it. We started weaning dd1 at 16wks because DH wanted to b/c that was what he did with his dd. and I had bad PND and couldn't even tell him it was a crap idea I refuse to let it happen again with ds. b/c dd1 has so many food issues so I'm not telling him how old ds is he's too lazy to work it out himself

I started dd1 at 17wks too frus although I still think it was right for her at the time, only a few spoonfuls of baby rice with milk once a day but still, dd2 is 15this wkend, I want to drag it out as long as possible and will definatly not do it unless she really seems to need more but I can't see us getting to 6 months, for me I think 5 is about perfect to start, what have the other mums on here done?

FrussoHathor Wed 28-Aug-13 20:46:58

kitty dd2 was 6.5mths. And I much preferred not blitzing food into mush. or faffing about sterilising things all the time
Have you seen the spoon attachment things that go on the baby food packs. here I'm not sure about how hygienic they are, unless baby eats the whole pouch. hmm

But I still think the best thing in the world is the look on ds's face when I get my boobs out ready to feed him. It just seems to say, yippee you're going to feed me, oh I love you mum.

Eek! Yeah, no food for the littles yet. I think it used to be that they could start eating at 4 months? Oh those Dhs always get so excited for solids (mine was just commenting on not being able to wait to start giving foods too).

Glad to hear that you're able to find things that do help Lib Excellent news. (don't mind me, I'm a total introvert, so groups things aren't my cup of tea). Yeah a herbalist or a naturopath would be great resources for figuring out your body composition so as to know which herbs and supplements would work best for you. Traditional Chinese Medicine could be really beneficial as well.

Sorry to hear frus F'n frustrating when they seem to "forget" that you don't exist to cater to others. I'm also waiting for Dh to start saying "mum" b/c even he's asking me stupid q's like: where is my xyz? should I put nappy rash cream on this rash? how do you turn on the washing machine? ffs, figure it out old man! hmm

<groan> Will someone please turn off the flippin heat outside? The allergies are killing me and 95 degrees with 1232132% humidity plus mega winds DO NOT HELP. I sneeze 2343 times every 10 minutes and my eyes are practically swollen shut. Somebody please give me some sympathy. I'm dying over here even in my air conditioned house

Ds1 was about 5 months old, Ds2 was about 7 months old (he was a boob man for as long as possible), and I'm going to just wait until at least 6 months to introduce anything for M. I just feel like it makes things so much more complicated when food starts getting involved. You actually have to pack things for the day when you go out (food, bib, spoon, change of clothes, etc) right now it's just boobs (yep, got those) and a spit up rag (yep, my shirt). grin

Gris I never steralized any food things?? What did you do?
I gave dd alot of finger foods as baby led weening is all the rage now so didn't have to purée everything although I did alot and made alot, infact the first things she loved were bread sticks and orange segments lol
Bring << sympathy>> dh's are bloody useless, mine always asks where something is while saying its not until I come over and get it from yes the place I told him

AGnu Wed 28-Aug-13 21:25:12

We started DS1 on baby rice at 17 weeks because he wasn't gaining weight being breastfed because he has a PTT. Just before that we were invited to take part in a study looking at introducing common allergens before 6m after there was a study done in another country Norway? Sweden? which suggested that babies were more likely to develop allergies if certain foods were introduced later. I'd have loved to participate mad scientist but they wouldn't have accepted us with his weight issues.
Not sure what we'll do this time. I doubt it'll be 17w but we'll probably let him play with the occasional carrot stick before 6m! I'm actually kinda looking forward to being able to introduce food for fun. Last time the HVs told me exactly how I should be shoving rice into him. One told me to offer it between feeds, another said to give it as a top-up & the third made me feel stupid by insisting that DS1 wouldn't want the rice if we gave it after he always did so we must give it first. <Sigh>

I can't stop obsessing about DS1's tongue now. blush Sometimes when he pokes it out in a certain way it definitely has a heart-shape to it. I've managed to have a little look & can see that there's a more obvious tie than DS2's. No idea if we should do anything about it now though. He mispronounces some sounds like 'f' instead of 'sm' but not all the time & I don't know at what point it'll be considered a delay. He has a wide vocabulary for his age & generally speaks clearly enough to be understood by others. I'm investigating whether there's any insurance we could get that would enable us to have it lasered if it does develop into an issue! Also looking into getting insurance with a view to getting his lip-tie done before his adult teeth come in since it is causing gapping. No idea if they'd class it as a 'pre-existing condition'. Will be making DH make some phone calls to find out!

RIGHT!? Kitty It's ridiculous. MEN <exasperated sigh>

I never sanitized anything. Fingers foods for both boys. Just a little of whatever we were eating (within reason of course). I remember that I pureed a few things for ds2 b/c he didn't seem to get very much of his fingers foods into his mouth just to help him along and get full. I just skipped the baby rice for #2 and I think we'll do the same again for M.

FrussoHathor Wed 28-Aug-13 23:35:48

With dd1 we sterilised everything spoons, bowls, the little cubes I froze the stuff in. Started her on baby porridge just typo-d that at pissage, oops and baby rice, sweet potatoe, fruit purées, banana.
Dd2 started on cocktail sausages and apples (BLW, and that's what she chose to shove in her mouth eat.) was always a worry as she couldn't hold her head without support or have any teeth. Skipped all the mushy stuff (except mash potatoes) as she just wasn't interested.

agnu DH has TT (not Submucosal) and has the forked tongue. But it's not a bad one like some of the pictures you see. And oddly has straighter teeth than I do (and I had a brace).
Dd2 has massive teeth, and was (is) a wobbly walker. She cut and recut her own Lip tie blood everywhere when she started walking. I think I'm going to wait and see if ds cuts his. down to timing of learning to walk with having only 2 bottom teeth or if it affects his teeth.
I'm not sure if dd2s LT has caused any gaping in her adult teeth, (she has yet to loose the baby ones) and has bumped her teeth/face so many times it hard to tell whether their positioning is due to LT or knocks. confused and i dont think gaping baby teeth necessarily means gaping adult teeth. although that would also depend on gum shape

FrussoHathor Thu 29-Aug-13 09:16:31

Morning all

Morning! Megan's jab day
Must remember must remember

FrussoHathor Thu 29-Aug-13 10:59:07

Yes you must

FrussoHathor Thu 29-Aug-13 10:59:26

Stick a post-it note on her

I'm on it!

AGnu Thu 29-Aug-13 14:04:47

Half an hour! Go, go, gooooo!

LOL! I love the post-it idea.

Go, Megan, go.

Megan is jabbed!! grin But hmm

FrussoHathor Thu 29-Aug-13 17:07:00

Megan might be but is kitten?

Librarina Thu 29-Aug-13 18:14:16

Well done on remembering x

I have the dribbliest baby! She has also learnt how to out her fingers in her mouth.

Yes kitten is, one more to get through then I think that's it for a year?
Horrible though, got dd1s food for party and tomorrow in going to be baking grin quite looking forward to it, also bought dd2 forward facing car seat last night, I know it's early still but offer was too good, maxi cosi axciss £115 on amazon with free delivery, should be £225!! And they do go for that much as even on eBay second hand they are 60-90, if anyone needs one I'd highly recommend, we have one for dd1 and its a god send, so much easier to use then a regular

peardrop2 Thu 29-Aug-13 20:08:07

Kitty ~ how is she doing? Does that car seat work with the isofix?

She's asleep now but seems abit more unsettled then normal, hearing her move around and moan abit, I've not given any calpol etc but well see how the night goes although she was ok last time, how's baby pear?

It's not an isofix one pear it goes in with the seatbelt but you dont take these next stage seats out if the car generally unless you were planning on sharing one between you and dh? we have one in each car. It fits in but has a tuning mechanism so that when you go to put your baby/child in its facing the door then you turn it around to face the front once they are in in one click, honestly amazing if you've ever had the joy of trying to get a 1plus child into a seat that doesn't want to and saves you knocking their head against roof trying to lift them in, just ask Agnu and frus what it's like lol

She's asleep now but seems abit more unsettled then normal, hearing her move around and moan abit, I've not given any calpol etc but well see how the night goes although she was ok last time, how's baby pear?

It's not an isofix one pear it goes in with the seatbelt but you dont take these next stage seats out if the car generally unless tyou were planning on sharing one between you and dh? we have one in each car. It fits in but has a tuning mechanism so that when you go to put your baby/child in its facing the door then you turn it around to face the front once they are in in one click, honestly amazing if you've ever had the joy of trying to get a 1plus child into a seat that doesn't want to and saves you knocking their head against roof trying to lift them in, just ask Agnu and frus what it's like lol

Its maxi cosi axiss pear, I spelt it wrong but tap it into google to see pics and reviews x

FrussoHathor Thu 29-Aug-13 21:08:17

Haha kitty heads of roof and knee in groin, and one hand holding both wrists, and avoiding feet, teeth, nails, and headbutts, and shoulder weighted against child's chest whist trying to do up seat belt and Houdini clips (yes plural) one handed, and repeat ad infinitum, (as dd escapes) until I give up and decide that it's best not to leave the house
Dd1 just used to get in.
I'm getting ds one of these and praying that dd2 grows out of undoing everyone's seatbelts that she can reach.

FrussoHathor Thu 29-Aug-13 21:46:06

Have I scared everyone away. confused normal children aren't harf as bad. But a turntable seat it great if you have a dodgy back.

FrussoHathor Thu 29-Aug-13 21:56:30


My #2 takes about 20 minutes of me saying "time to put on your underwear now" 41283213 times before we can go anywhere. It may not be a fight of getting into the car, but man it takes a good 45 minutes before we can even get to thinking about getting in the car bc #2 won't get dressed! SO flipping annoying!

M is also entering dribbling territory and hand-chewing. Hasn't figured out the thumb yet though.

Bring ill see your 45 mins and raise you 1+ if there is anything dd1 can use as a distraction technique to not getting ready she does and this is even when we are going to somewhere for here, the zoo, the park etc its a battle everyday!
On her plus note, she was exceptional with the potty yesterday, no accidents every wee in potty, the cynical part of me would even say she was manipulating the situation ( can an under 2s mind work like this?) as dh took her to a play world for an hour+, her nappy was dry when they returned and she did 6, yes 6!! Wees in the next hour, the first 3 with only 5 mins between and ofcourse each wee demanded a chocolate coin I've ditched the bunnys for fear of extreme fatness seems alot by any standard, our next step will be pants and her telling me, at the minute she just runs and goes to the potty herself, she doesn't say anything

AGnu Fri 30-Aug-13 07:01:19

Everyone else in my house is sound asleep. I got woken up by leaking pammy boobs after I forgot to express last night. I must be nearly at 8oz & still going on just one side! When I've finished I shall poke DS2 to sort the less painful side.
I blame DH. I was supposed to be going out last night but he didn't get home until 9.15 but I'd already got milk out of the freezer so felt obliged to give it to him. Then I was too exhausted to move by the time both DSs were in bed so fell asleep on the sofa instead of expressing.

FrussoHathor Fri 30-Aug-13 08:34:25

9oz shock wow. That is Indeed pammiesk

9oz shockshockshock Indead! I did similar Agnu, didn't express after I fed her at 7 as she sucked them dry and I was tired at 9 but woke up with leakage again, used the shells but by the time dd2 woke they were pretty sore, she slept til 8:15!!!! That's 13+ hoursshock
Dd1 woke me to celebrate at 6 boooooooooshock

AGnu Fri 30-Aug-13 10:43:27

It was 10oz in the end! I had to give some to DS1 because we're running out of space in our tiny freezer! DS2 seems to want 6-7oz per feed so I froze it as 1 bag of 6.5oz, 1 pot of 1.5oz to use with a 5oz bag we have already frozen & DS1 got the rest with breakfast! That puts our current total in the freezer at 26oz which should be sufficient for him for 24hrs, unless it's a particular hungry day. I'll put one more feed in & after that DS1 will need to get drinking until I can start giving it to the bank!

AGnu Fri 30-Aug-13 10:44:40

Anyone want some milk? wink

FrussoHathor Fri 30-Aug-13 11:56:06

Today is not a good day. sad my head is reeling. I'm on the cusp of a panic attack. I can feel it building.

I'm going to hide and rock now.

FrussoHathor Fri 30-Aug-13 12:50:12

Could somebody please tell my ds that his fist and my boob will not fit in his mouth at the same time. grin

The fish that your mouth where are you
Just looked at my phone and this ^ last line had written itself.

Hmm, yeah I understand 2 year olds and their distractions but Ds#2 is 3.5 years old and knows how to get dressed entirely by himself. When I tell him to put on a pair of pants or a shirt he throws himself on the floor and just wails "I CAN'T DO IT". I could totally get him dressed and we could be out the door, but it's so annoying that he won't do it himself that we have a battle of the wills everyday.

Are you okay frus?

Holy buckets agnu that is impressive!

FrussoHathor Fri 30-Aug-13 15:18:59

Dd wee-ed in the sandpit at nursery. blush and not an accident. oh dear.

AGnu Fri 30-Aug-13 16:30:37

Buckets you say, bring? I might be needing a bucket with my supply! grin

cake for Frus. Today will be over soon. Tomorrow might be better... <strokes head>

I managed to totally forget about the breastfeeding group I'd planned to go to today! blush DH dragged me to the GP about some moles that I've been meaning to get checked for years a little while. Then he went into work while DS1 & I made towers, walkways, slides, tunnels & dens with cardboard boxes... That's when we should've been there. DS1 insisted on having lunch early & going straight to bed so I carried on with tie-dying muslins & starting a blog about it! V exciting! grin Anyhoo, must dash... I've got to remove a muslin from some rhubarb-turmeric water before DS1 gets any more irrate at being left in his cot!
<swans away because I'm clearly far too busy to MN all day now that I've got a blog> wink

FrussoHathor Fri 30-Aug-13 18:12:14

Thanks for the cake not a easy or short fix. But can't do anything over the weekend, so have cake and wine

I think af is coming back to town angry I could kill for some cake right now.

FrussoHathor Fri 30-Aug-13 19:25:34

Oh no bring that's far to early. sad when did ad come back last time. I had some twinges a few weeks ago. So I think I'm ovulating again. But if af can stay away for another 9 months I'll be happy.
I have horrible afs, and dr agreed that there is no contraception that doesn't involve hormones that stops afs. So I may have to look into more drastic option s when the pain comes back.

Oh no bring, I'm more then happy for mine to stay away for the next year!
What about the coil frus, can't you get a hormone free one, my cousin and work collegue have them and can't recomend them enough! X

FrussoHathor Fri 30-Aug-13 21:52:17

No kitty because the copper coil can make periods heavier and I need them to stop. (Endo) and can't have the hormone wasn't because I don't react well to them.

Well, M has been sleeping through the night for the past month, I started having some twinges on one side (like you frus) which is making me think that I'm ovulating again. It was 13 months before it showed up with ds2, but he was feeding around the clock still at that point. I got a copper coil placed on the 19h and bled for a week (so I don't know if that was b/c of the coil or if it was af)...anyway, I feel like I'm pms'ing big time and would kill for some chocolate!

In other news, Dh acquired an air hockey table that the neighbors were giving away b/c they are moving and the boys have been in the basement for the past 3 hrs playing with random visits to the toilet and up for food. Best free thing we've ever gotten why the f didnt we get this sooner????

FrussoHathor Sat 31-Aug-13 17:07:45

I wish I had the space for an air hockey table. That sounds like fun entertainment for dcs bring
I knew there was a reason I was happy that my dcs don't sleep through early on.

pear have tried that pacifier, and whilst ds takes it longer than the others. Well he sucks twice, and since I can't physically get any other pacifier into his mouth, it's progress. but I am still a human pacifier. sad

Dh and I had an air hockey tournament last night. I won! It's definitely worth the amount of space that it takes up in the basement.

M is starting to suck on her entire fist, and is also sucking in her bottom lip (which is pretty much the cutest thing, ever).

How's your booby feeling, Lor?

peardrop2 Sat 31-Aug-13 17:56:35

Aww Frus that is a shame! I guess we just have to take it as a compliment. Can't get better than us wink Will you give up now? I've still got to try that expensive boob shaped bottle hmm I've been putting it off as I already know the answer!!

FrussoHathor Sat 31-Aug-13 23:22:27

To be honest pear I haven't tried very hard to get him to take one. Dds just seemed to take to them without much persuading. Although it was dh persuading them Plus i dont like the hassle of weaning them off them. Dds both seemed to have a secret stash and find one once I'd taken visible away. And then they loose them at night.
Dd2 use to have 3 at night, one in each hand and one in her mouth. And cry if she lost one. But if she lost the one in her mouth she'd never use one of the ones in her hand. asd showed early on

I quite like that he hasn't taken to them. It makes me feel
needed. wink

Boob shaped bottle is always worth a try, you never know.

Ooh and I've just managed a nappy change without waking ds. Oooch.

FrussoHathor Sat 31-Aug-13 23:46:14

You ladies had better be doing your pelvic floors.
Ive been having trouble weeing and I've just had a post DC furtle blush and its not good. confused I have definately fit a prolapse of some sort. Drs on Monday.
Get pelvic flooring ladies.

Oh dear frus that's definitely not good. Sounds like a cystocele (I've seen a minor one before), good idea to get it checked out. Yes, do your squats and your kegels.

Ds1 was a nightmare to get weaned off the dummy! Ds2 is still a thumb sucker at 3.5 years old...and now M has found comfort in sucking on the side of her fist. We shall see if this evolves into anything else.

Just have to share about our excellent trip to the farmer's market this morning. $40 worth of produce that included 5lbs of potatoes, 12 ears of corn, 1lb of green beans, 1pint of strawberries, 1 pint of raspberries, a huge bundle of kale, a huge bundle of swiss chard, a bunch of coriander, 1lb of yellow summer squash, 1/2 lb of green courgettes, 2 dilicata squash and three giant heirloom tomatoes. I love the end of summer! This week is going to be YUM. grin

FrussoHathor Sun 01-Sep-13 08:25:07

Wow bring that is an amazing amount of produce. I am jealous of how delicious it all sounds.

Yeah I'm pretty sure it's a cystocele. Question is do I contact doctors or self refer to the GUmedicine clinic.
I'm also doomed in that I can't avoid heavy lifting with dd2. sad

Oh frus that doesn't sound good, can you tell from how it feels just needing the toilet etc? I must admit I'm terrible, never do pelvic floors etc I darnt imagine how mind could be eeek would I know?
Bring sometimes something comes into our world and we can't imagine how we lived without it, sounds like that air hockey table is yours grin
Congrats on the hoard too, I love a good bargin me!
Frus just to make you jeleous my af never came back until I stoped bf completely, I was only doing one feed aday for a few months and still nothing, I actually wanted to get pregnant again hence stoping really

Well dd2 has started to wake up in the night, she's 15wks today and this is almost an exact replication of what happened with dd1 just before I started food, do we think growth spurt?, I really do t want to start food yet ( well I won't till 17wks earliest) but I'd like it to go later then that but really don't want to break the sleeping through habit, it's been amazing for 4 wks now, do you think it will stop if I persist with just milk, should I not feed her but try to get her back to sleep without or with abit of water? I don't think this will work

FrussoHathor Sun 01-Sep-13 09:18:11

Morning kitty I can't give tried advise on sleeping through as mine never have perhaps a dream feed before she wakes and get that slowly earlier and earlier until its a bedtime feed again?

Tmi alert.
Past week or so I haven't been able to empty my bladder
properly at night. and I can't sleep if I need a wee and I thought maybe my bladder was misaligned. So I had a furtle to push it back so I could wee. And my entire front wall feels like its flopped down. confused and my cervix feels post Ov low but that may or may not mean anything
I don't think it was flopped after birth, I think it's come on since then with lifting dd as I could wee properly after birth.

FrussoHathor Sun 01-Sep-13 09:20:49

kitty can you fully empty your bladder, and can you stop mid wee and then wee again? But that would only apply to the front wall. Other bits can flump too.

FrussoHathor Sun 01-Sep-13 09:40:54

Oh dear god I'm a bad mummy. Ds just fell of the sofa. It was like watching it in slow-mo. he kinda went feet first, slipped down and fell backwards and donked his head on the floor. I feel like this---> envy I guess I should be grateful that he didn't land 2 inches to the left and wack his head on the foot of the footstool.
He finally stopped screaming, and latched on with quivering sobs. He seems okay now he's feeding.

Oh no! I can just imagine the quivering sobs hmm everytime something bad happens it seems to be in slow motion, I'm dure he will be right as rain now he's back with his favourite things wink
I can do the stop start wees fewsh
I may settle in the ignorance in bliss category
Not sure a dream feed will work frus as its late on she's been waking, 5:30 2 of the nights ( I can live with that) but last night 3:30 then 4:20 hmm it is only 2 days since injections so maybe that? Plus felt colder in her room last night, little hands were frozen ( clutches at straws) funnily inbetween that was the mamouth 13hrs sleep so I don't know what's going on

FrussoHathor Sun 01-Sep-13 12:09:04

Injections and cold could wake them. Ds's feet were cold last night too. So I snuggled him in with me.
Carboot again. Got a redkite carrier for £5. (With a weather cover). Suitable for why I need if for.
Ds seems himself again grumbling for more boob

peardrop2 Sun 01-Sep-13 12:40:46

Kitty you're so fortunate with baby kitten hmm I am very jealous that you've had 4 weeks of sleep so I have no sympathy for you in the slightest wink hah! But interesting that should think that the jabs may be effecting her sleep because this week has been hell for us and I wasn't sure if it was teething or jabs related...last night was definitely because I ate runner beans without thinking it would make baby pear so uncomfortable hmm I swear I will not be eating them again after his constant waking in the night last night!

Poor baby Frus hmm It's just as well that they're much more sturdy then they appear and it sounds like a cuddle and the magic boob fixed him :-)

Bring, I love the sound of your bargain shopping list! Yummmm!

Pelvic exercises is one thing that I've been doing right! I have the app to remind me twice a day. Should be doing it more but that is a unrealistic challenge!

I'm in two minds. Shall I go and have lunch or nap with baby pear? Hmm I have a headache so I should probably eat. Really want the nap though boooo hmm

Lorelei353 Sun 01-Sep-13 13:46:30

I do pelvic floors while brushing my teeth. Have a little green dot sticker on my mirror to remind me (trick from NCT teacher). Definitely feeling the difference between post-birth and now.

sad at poor little one sliding off the sofa onto the floor.

So everyone else had also entered drooly, fist in mouth stage? S much dribble!

lib I haven't posted in a while but glad to hear an update from you and that you're getting some support. Hope you're feeling better.

My boob is much better thanks. After two days I was feeling less unwell and the pain is gone now. Phew. Mastitis avoided. Just need to be stricter with DS about is latch when out and about.

Librarina Sun 01-Sep-13 15:53:53

Is it bad that I could totally imagine little Frus-boy slithering off the sofa, the only reason that's never happened to N is because I am incapable of putting her down, which causes its own problems!

She has barely slept today, just a little half hour postboob, so I thought I'd take her for a walk in the sling, she grumbled all the way, so I tried to feed her at a bus stop, which was crap, so in the end I took her out and carried her home, so now I'm tired and feel a failure and she's chuckling at her daddy upstairs while having her bum changed.

No wait, now she's crying again.

Yesterday was so lovely as well!

Yikes Frus that totally sounds like a prolapse. I would head in to see a doc who can hopefully refer you to a pelvic floor specialist (do they have them over there??). Kegels are great, but you have to remember to do a few squats a day as well. The kegels will tighten the muscles but will just leave them in that tightened position so the proper squatting position will help to stretch the muscles back out to keep the pelvic floor strong. An over-tight pelvic floor can be just as damaging as a weak one.

Kitty M woke up 2-3x per night for the first 3 days after her jabs and now she's back to sleeping through the night. It could be jab-related or growth spurt-related. I don't think water would help her out much, hopefully it's just a tiny phase and she will be back to her lovely 12 hr stretches!

Not a bad mum for a baby falling off the couch, but still so depressing! sad. Both of the boys are victims of falling off of our bed oops. Hoping that M does not fallow suit and doesn't do dangerous boy things.

Sorry you've had a grumbly-baby day today Lib Feels like there's nothing you can do when they are in that kind of a mood, which just puts a damper on everything!

Off to my crazy-dog-show-weirdo mum's house for the day.

Lorelei353 Sun 01-Sep-13 18:49:46

So when's my ds going to start sleeping through the night? I get a 4/5 hour stretch at the start and then anywhere between 2 and 3 hour stints after that. Depending on the time he goes down, which still varies, that can still mean I'm up twice during the night.

Does he go straight back to sleep after a feed lor? What is his feeding like in the day? Do you feed him just in demand or wake him for food every 3/4 hrs? Does he sleep with you or in a Moses basket/cot? How old is he now?

Thanks bring, I'm grateful you've said that, gives me hope it might be jab related although the first ones had no effect, she has been much more grumbly though aswel, moaning in her sleep now when she usually makes not a peep, I can deal with a few days just hope it's not a food thing as I don't think she's ready yet
Pear, I know I'm lucky although did follow the routine strictly as I know from last time how important it is to get sleep but remember when you get a choice of having a lovely nap with baby pear I'm probably cleaning poo of the carpet this mornings escapade no naps for this mama lol
He will get there!
On another note, how on earth do green beans effect him hmm how frustrating for youconfused
Lib, sorry you've had a hard day, lack of naps does a grumbly baby make, we've been busy the last 2 days and dd2 not slept well because of it and I think that's had a knock on effect, have you seen those sleep hammocks, maybe she would like one of those? So many people have been raving about them

Lorelei353 Sun 01-Sep-13 21:33:37

He does largely go straight back to sleep. At least, he doesn't fully wake up when looking for food, but mooches and whimpers and sucks his fists. He can be quite unsettled after his feed, or after his second feed. He doesn't sleep soundly later in the night but mooches and messes in his sleep. I'm sure it's probably wind but can't seem to do anything about it as he won't burp if he's asleep or half-asleep.

His feeding is good during the day. Feeds well after every nap and often a bit more before naps. He tends to do a really long, striping feed in early evening and then guzzles a lot after his bath too, so two big evening feeds before bed. I do feed him on demand all day, but he'd rarely go as long as 3/4 hours between feeds. Maybe 3 but never 4. He sleeps in a small, rocking crib beside our bed and always has. He's 11 + 5 weeks.

FrussoHathor Sun 01-Sep-13 21:40:18

Don't ask me lore I've had 2.3yrs and 5+ years. which equates to sleeping through about 4-5 weeks in the past 7.9years

However ds has just gone down for the night so I'm joining him. But only because my peripheral has gone in one eye and it was flickering when I was bathing ds. Ibuprofen taken. Lets see if I can stop MNing and go to sleep before I get a migraine.

Have you tried infacol for his wind lor? Dd is quite similar, burbs come up easier in the day when wide awake but I sometimes struggle before she goes to sleep when she's konked out, sounds like he's getting enough milk, do you put him upstairs at the start of the evening while you are down? Is that when he sleeps better? Could be your both keeping each other awake? Does he sleep well on his back? Have you ever tried him on his tummy or is that not something you'd be happy with ( totally understand but sometimes it helps for wind) if he's having longer naps in the day but only going 2 hrs at night perhaps try and make sure he doesn't have longer then 2hr stints in the day for the time being

The other thing is if he is just mooching and sucking his fist leave him abit longer to see if he will just go back to sleep, the temptation when they are right next to you is to pick them up quickly so you don't disturb dh or try and get it done quick so you can go back to sleep but he may have just has a suck of his fist and drifted back off?

Lorelei353 Mon 02-Sep-13 09:05:54

We haven't tried Infacol but were considering it.

We put him down in his crib in the bedroom when he goes down after his bath - not upstairs as it's a 2 bed flat in Central London, but it is dark and he shouldn't be disturbed by the tv or anything. He doesn't have long naps in the day, usually 45 mins to an hour. He'll only have a nap as LNG as two hours if he's missed a nap for some reason. He does sleep well on his back and we've never tried his tummy, but I don't think I'd be keen.

I do also try and leave him sucking his fists and things until his voice starts taking on a higher pitched, more insistent tone, on the verge of crying but not quite there. I did have a habit of picking him up but have realised he doesn't always need to get up so will leave him, or if he seems windy, will pick him up and rub his tummy for a while but not feed him, but I'll only do that if he's been mooching for a while.

Maybe we'll give in and try the Infacol at night.

Lorelei353 Mon 02-Sep-13 09:09:04

They do start growing out of windy issues around three months don't they?

peardrop2 Mon 02-Sep-13 09:14:18

Lor I wouldn't try him on his tummy unless you're desperate. Only saying this from experience because tummy sleepers need rocking to sleep. It's rare to find a tummy sleeper baby who you can just plonk down and leave. Each rocking session takes me 15-30 minutes and sometimes an hour so I really wouldn't recommend this. When I'm desperate to burp I'll put him over my shoulder, sit down on the edge of the bed and stand up or I'll do the same but walk him up and down the stairs. The judder movement will normally get a burp out when he's sleeping.

Kitty ~ I am at least thankful for the nights I'm only waking once. I've heard from a friend that their sleeping pattern completely changes at 4 months. Will be interesting to see how this effects everyone. Oh and I'd love to say I get to nap when he does but he only naps at lunchtime when I'm starving so it is extremely rare that I get to nap. Yesterday is a prime example...by the time I'd had a quick sandwich and put my head on the pillow he started to stir. He's never been a daytime napper but has always fed between 2-3 hours. He has recently started to sleep between 7:30-8:30 so I can eat dinner in peace but then he wont go back to sleep until 11:30 no matter how much I rock and stay with him. Green beans create gas. What I eat effects him. I didn't realise green beans was on my no no list until I asked Dr google this week.

peardrop2 Mon 02-Sep-13 09:15:44

No they grow out of windy issues when you start weaning. Baby pear is over 3 months and has been extremely windy this week hmm

peardrop2 Mon 02-Sep-13 09:26:02

Kitty ~ is baby kitten teething yet?

peardrop2 Mon 02-Sep-13 09:28:29

I guess if that wind pipe grew at 3 months (or whatever the thing is called that aids digestion) then your baby would be better by 3 months but the specialists have all told me it will happen for us at 4 months if I start weaning early hmm

FrussoHathor Mon 02-Sep-13 09:56:45

Possibly lore I don't wind ds at night unless he's really moaning about it. He does fart a lot at night. And is better at bring up his wind in the day.
We have a long stretch at the start of the night, wich works for us as I can then get dd re-settled.

The countdown to school has begun in earnest. I get to nap when ds does on Wednesday, in actually pretty excited about it. wink

Par-tay time frus! School starts for us tomorrow YIPEE!!!!!

M will go to sleep for the night pretty much on her own. We only use the rocking chair for her beditme feed and by the time she's on the 2nd boob she's starting to fall asleep and I'll put her down when she's still a tiny bit awake and she'll settle herself. All of these theories on what works or what doesn't just anecdotal....we're all just gotta go with the flow of our babies. M sleeps fantastically right now, but with past experience of the boys, it probably won't last forever and she'll go through phases of being a PITA not sleeping. wink

Hope your migraine is gone Frus!

peardrop2 Mon 02-Sep-13 14:19:36

Ladies I think I'm going to quietly slip away from this thread. It's all just too depressing to hear how well everyone's babies sleep. It's bad enough to repeatedly hear it in real life hmm

FrussoHathor Mon 02-Sep-13 14:57:47

Mine doesn't pear you're not alone. ((Hugs))

FrussoHathor Mon 02-Sep-13 15:02:13

It seems to be at bay at the moment bring but I know it's stress related. So once my stress has gone the migrane will go. Shame the cause of my stress isn't a quick fix.

Pear ((hugs)) I dont think its common for babies to sleep really well and I think it's only 50/50 on this thread, lor,lib and frus dont have the sleepers me, bring and Agnu do, so don't feel like its just you, I put kitten on her tummy and she does just go to sleep I think if a baby likes rocking it doesn't matter what way you put them but personally I don't like having to put kitten on her tummy and if she slept at all on her back I wouldn't, I never did dd1 and she always slept well on her back so unless you were desperate I'd leave it as you are aswell. Does sound like he's sleeping better when your not in the room though?
Wind issues like colic do seen to resolve at around 3 months, I think as they have better control sitting etc it does seem to make it easier on them,

pear both my friends with reflux babies had to wein early, it did help, don't feel bad if that's what's better for him, remember it would be to ease his discomfort not for your benifit, don't feel bad,thanks I've found babies sleeping habits seem to coincide with hunger/ feeding so that 4 months mark you mentioned pear is usually when people choose to do it,( disclaimer- people I know anyway)

Oh and lucky you frus and bring, break out the wine and celebrate some freedom grin

Oh and I'm not sure about teething pear, she's very dribbly ATM. I think she may have a little cold ( jab related?) she's had a runny nose all day

FrussoHathor Mon 02-Sep-13 19:13:32

Not full freedom yet. Got another day with miss chatterbox

Please don't leave, pear I'm just going to put it out there: My baby is a freak. Babies really aren't meant to sleep through the night. They are so tiny with freakishly fast metabolisms and they are supposed to wake up multiple times through the night. M would be up every hour if I put her on her back like we're "supposed" to.

Ooooh you can do it frus! 1 more day, 1 more day, 1 more day.

FrussoHathor Mon 02-Sep-13 23:40:11

Getting nervous now bring it's 1st day at school all over again. Only this time I hope it's the right school.
Oh and ds has his jabs on Thursday, need to check when, and I still haven't phoned the doctors to get an appointment.
Bother and I forgot batteries today too.

Pear, look at the time of my post, kitten has turned too

And bring that's still on her tummy like I'm not " surposed " too

Is she moving schools frus?

peardrop2 Tue 03-Sep-13 03:31:58

Thanks for trying to make me feel better ladies. Baby pear also sleeps on his tummy. Has done since week 3 when I finally caved in. Sorry for moaning, I'm just really feeling sorry for myself as I could cope with the reflux and the milk allergy but to add teething to the mix is damn harsh hmm

peardrop2 Tue 03-Sep-13 03:33:23

Interesting how many babies do actually sleep on their tummy isn't it!

Your allowed to feel pissed off pear, sometimes it's like that, you seem to hit milestone after milestone, it's also hard hearing when other babies are so "good" or never wake etc but I promise you everyone I know had hit a rough patch or had different problems, do you think you will wein early? Baby pear can only be a few weeks off 17wks which seems to be the key age they say not before, I did dd1 I think a few days before 17wks, wondering if dd2 will be the same, she definatly has a little cold as was coughing this morninghmm

peardrop2 Tue 03-Sep-13 08:08:44

Yes I think we will have to wean early in a couple of weeks. I'm very very sad about it as I enjoy breast feeding so much. Obviously though I'm not enjoying watching baby pear be in so much discomfort. I think if this hasn't happened I would have carried on breast feeding a lot longer then I ever imagined. At the moment I don't know how much you can give solids and breast so maybe I'll feel better when I'm told the facts.

peardrop2 Tue 03-Sep-13 08:09:53

Sorry baby kitten has a cold hmm

To start with pear you pretty much give them the identical amount of milk and just add one small amount of food then this Increases every few weeks, when dd1 was having a good amount of food at around 6 months that's when I started giving her water with meals but she was still on 3 milk feeds aday that 3rd droped around 9 months but I know people who still did three or four milk feeds for alot longer, it may be abit different with your case but as in abit faster for food but I think the milk would still be the same so don't worry about loosing your part, you definatly don't! Dd1 is 2 now and still has 2 bottles kf milk aday even though she's not ment to have bottles now

peardrop2 Tue 03-Sep-13 08:59:37

Really? I can carry on feeding him? That makes me really happy to hear! What will happen if he carries on refusing a bottle. He won't be able to take water will he? Is this why people keep telling me that I'm going to have problems giving him water? Sorry lots of questions grin

Yes you definatly need to keep feeding him aswel, I think Agnu said they recomend bf till 2 but babies need food from 1 at the latest so at the beginning you won't even notice the difference in your feeding, it's more as a addition as apposed to substitute! Yes that's why people will be saying it and I did have a friend who's daughter refused a bottle and she used a cup or tippee cup, but had to bf at night and things longer then she planned ( she got teeth!!)you will get around it plus he may not see it as the same thing when he's eating and enjoying food, my dd loved water and I mean loved! My friends nick named her miss evian, I always gave her it in a bottle but think ill try to give it in a cup this time as she became obsessed with her bottle of water like a dummy, shed get through 4/5 bottles if you let her although she still drinks loads now even in cups she drains the glass as soon as you give it her

FrussoHathor Tue 03-Sep-13 09:57:26

doidy cups are good for non bottle takers apparently pear

AGnu Tue 03-Sep-13 10:39:20

Honestly, I take a 24 hour break from MN-ing & have several pages to catch up on! Chatterboxes! wink

Right, sleeping... Last night I held DS2 for an hour while he screamed. No idea what the matter was but he eventually dropped off while I sang to him. No before waking DS1 though! Might be something to do with us now being on our 5th poo-free day... The night before I woke up at 4.30 needing to express because I'd had a get-off-my-nipples moment & given him a bottle instead before bed. I'd hoped I'd just be a bit swollen come the morning & could feed to relieve it. Instead I was woken up in pain & with a soggy top!
Nights when both DSs go down easily, DH insists on staying up late to make sure the kitchen is spotless & I have to stay up too or he'll sit down with a coffee at some point & get distracted looking at videos of old planes on YouTube. hmm It's not all roses in the Gnu stable! wink

The WHO recommendation is that babies are breastfed until at least 2 years & you can continue beyond that for as long as you both want to. Might want to stop when they leave home... wink Until they're 1 they get most of their nutrients from milk & food is just for the experience of it so don't feel you have to give a certain amount. As long as you're still breastfeeding he'll take what he needs from you. smile We always gave water in a beaker so he got used to milk coming in a bottle & water in a beaker. I think it made it easier to drop the bottle for milk.

DS2 had his second lot of jabs this morning. I'm hoping they make him poo. But not until tonight when I can make DH deal with the 5-day backlog!

Yes, please keep breastfeeding baby pear. Until the age of 2 is ideal and like agnu and kitty said, food is an add-on to the amount of breastmilk that he's getting in the day. The just call it "weaning" because he's not getting strictly breastmilk anymore. It may be frustrating in the beginning with giving them food because they tend to wear more of it than actually getting it down.... but they get the hang of it eventually. You can start out by making it an experience to have during playtime and then once he is used to the idea of solids, you can start increasing the amount and the number of times a day that he eats. They generally recommend to breastfeed first to fill them up, and then add food after that. They still need all of the fats, vitamins, and minerals that are in breastmilk that can't be found in the small amount of foods that they are taking in initially.

Can I just say " PRAISE DA LAWD " the little monsters have left the building. <deep 2 month-built-up sign> Love them, but oh mama is happy to have the day with the little lady!!

I know it's recommended till 2 but just incase anyone feels confused I wasn't planning on doing it that long, can I be the first to say it may be ok but for me when there's teeth......lol

FrussoHathor Tue 03-Sep-13 15:58:34

Hmm, see if dont have a problem with teeth.

I would have loved to feed dds to 2, but they both self weaned at 18mths and 13mths. And nothing I could do to make them go longer.
I have a friend or sorts who I think was still feeding alot rising3.

FrussoHathor Tue 03-Sep-13 16:01:25

* if = i

I don't really either. When it came to biting, it happened once with each of the boys and after I told them "no" and smashed their faces into my boob so they couldn't breathe they got the idea. Ds1 was about 7 mths when I switched to formula (biggest mistake ever as now he's allergic to cow's milk) and ds2 self-weaned at 1 month shy of 2yrs.

FrussoHathor Tue 03-Sep-13 17:55:57

Anyone know how I can be in 2 places at once? Say for the foreseeable future until dd1 is old enough to be a latch-key kid <sigh>

Lorelei353 Tue 03-Sep-13 18:17:27

I'll be going back to work when ds is a year old so I don't know what I'll do about bf then. Anyone else done this? I'm not sure I'm up for expressing at work.

FrussoHathor Tue 03-Sep-13 18:48:06

I'm going back at 9mths. No idea what I'm going to do. or even if I'll be able to go back to work

Lor my dd only had one in the morning and one at night by 9 months anyway so at a year old if you are there for those two times id say thats all shed need/want but I had already stoped by then, as I went back to work at 9 months so started cutting down at 6 then stoped completely at 8ish, to be honest I was ready for it, I may do it abit longer this time but I don't regret stoping when I did last time, I was ready for me back iyswim, plus I also wanted to try for dd2 and my periods just wernt returning while I fed, the other thing is they can go onto cows milk from 1 so bear that in mind aswell, if she still liked a drink in the afternoon or your not there for the morning for example you could use cows milk then

FrussoHathor Wed 04-Sep-13 07:50:58

Morning. Tired. You ladies with non-schoolies are lucky.