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March 2013: Smiles, sleep & excellent feeding.....the thread of wishful thinking!

(998 Posts)
SoYo Tue 07-May-13 21:52:31

Well we may as well start the thread on a positive note before the grumbling about the little darlings begins!!!

Eigmum Tue 07-May-13 22:03:39

Love the title SoYo !

Well I have had an interesting time, dd went to sleep at 4pm, woke up had a tiny breastfeed and bath, slept on bottle at 6pm and had zero ounces and has been asleep since.Assuming this must be vaccines making her tired. Going to wake her for a dream feed at 11pm as otherwise too long without milk in this hot weather. Drinking camomile tea and trying to relax! Been odd having an evening with no witching hour!

WingDefence Tue 07-May-13 22:22:03

Poor MiniEig! Hope she does give you a good night.

And I love the title too SoYo grin

plonko Tue 07-May-13 22:54:21

Eig I was wondering how you were getting on post-jabs. Any grouchiness?

SoYo Wed 08-May-13 01:23:44

Unfortunately wishfu thinking hasn't helped here. Up 1h earlier than usual so that usually equals a whole extra feed (& hr awake) overnight. Is shit! Boiling hot here too so difficult to get good sleep. Hope others are faring better.

pudtat Wed 08-May-13 01:35:31

Thanks for new thread.

Hope minieig feels better for a good sleep, as does her mum.

Had a hungry one today, though not very interested in formula too ups. Or sleeping. He's been really very lovely, but hard to get much done. Think he tried to deliberately bat the toys on the bar over bouncy chair today. smileStill no sign of any more bm's since the great clear out a week ago though, so will call doc tomorrow. As he still has a little formula I'd expect to see something...

I have a moby wrap, but have actually struggled to get on with it. Find it hard to gauge correct tension, so always retying it, and get very hot even before recent weather. Have a more structured carrier, bb rip off type, which is great for walks but wouldn't want DS in it all day.

Have a gro egg room thermometer which is great as I use it as the only light in our room over night. That's enough to check or swaddle him by and the glow of MN on the iPad lights the feeds!

ecofreckle Wed 08-May-13 02:21:10

Thanks for lovely optimistic new thread. The law of attraction will surely win out for us all!
Hot weather wise dd seems unbothered by heat rash but looks and feels pretty gruesome to the touch. Hv coming tomorrow morning so we'll see what pearls of wisdom she has. She prescribed cuddles for crying last week so maybe she'll suggest less clothes or something else radical.... Was wondering today whether hot weather means they need more feeds (I wouldn't want to go for three hours without a drink). Dd been on a two hour cycle during day which included four poo nappies in a row so I guess she's been taking a fair bit.
Our nights currently go feed at bed time which is 8, then one 2 ish then one 5 ish, then ping awake by ungodly 0630. Considering dream feeds from now on to hopefully loose one feed where I have to wake up. Those doing dream feeds any tips about how to do it please? Evil baby whisperer is very vague about it in the mini book I have.
Also, does anyone else eat at each night time feed or am I being greedy?! I have a granola slice and it feels like a bit of a dirty habit but it (along with cute milk drunk faces) is something that helps take sting out of night time waking.
Hope you all have a nice gentle breeze blowing it's calmmess over you tonight. See you later.

WingDefence Wed 08-May-13 02:48:02

Oh I'd love a breeze here!

Well DD hasn't gone for as long as normal here. Fed at 10ish but has been really noisy and grunty since 1 something and finally barked out a couple of cries at 2:20 so got her up then. Yawn.

Is it wrong to say I'm now looking forward to the cooler weather coming back? I'm not used to this hot weather business any more where I live grin

Eigmum Wed 08-May-13 03:43:00

No grounchiness, woke at 11 for dream fees but only took 3 ounces. Just woke, bit of a poo and both boobs and back to sleep. Seems v tired but ok otherwise. Normally I would have let her sleep but don't want her to be too long without a drink in the heat!

Eigmum Wed 08-May-13 04:04:56

Oh, then did huge poo so had to change her but back asleep now! Hope you are all fairing ok!

pudtat Wed 08-May-13 04:22:59

Ha, miniPud did the whole of my right side last feed but fell beautifully asleep so just got put down.meant trying to get onto my left just now was quite a struggle for us both. Poor love.

SoYo Wed 08-May-13 04:52:48

Eco I keep a packet of dark choc digestives by the bed & munch through a few a night. They're my guilty pleasure!

Up again just a few mins ago so that was a good solid stretch for her after a first feed. Rooms a bit cooler now too which I'm sure helped.

leniwhite Wed 08-May-13 06:07:19

Rainbow - please please explain how to feed in a wrap sling? I have a Boba Wrap which I know is pretty similar to the Moby but I can't for the life of me see how I'd get positioned so DS's head was near my boob!

We're at the Pil and i've forgotten the scarf I was meant to bring to cover us up, so I'm spending every feed in our room upstairs in a really hard chair hmm playing bloody addictive Candy Crush Saga on my phone!

DS slept all the way here in a very hot car, his little sun hat falling down over his eyes - the smallest one they had in Mothercare shock dainty bonce.

Upon arrival he realised he was hungry and I had to whisk him away before meeting his public. I'm having to hold my tongue when i see his grandad putting a dummy back in after it's fallen on the chair where all the cats sit... There was a huge spider in the room we're sleeping in and They keep bowls of cat food on top of every small table in the lounge?! It's not a clean house at all but as this has already caused rows I'm just doing my best to subtly drum into OH that hygiene is currently a matter of life and death as opposed to me just being anal.

Somehow DS slept through from 11.30pm feed to 3.30am! Cue OH doing his only feed in 24 hrs and lots of grumpy huffing whilst I tried to sleep after a long drive and a very sore back/knee and no dinner; he's now asleep where he'll probably stay for a usual 6 hour stretch whilst I sit in bed with DS dying for a wee!

I'm sure car seats can't be great for newborns - DS's head was lolled to the side and he ended up in a sort of S shape, plus we couldn't see him because the seat has to face backwards. He was cross eyed all evening (his focus is so much better now that he's hardly ever squinty anymore) which worried me, I thought that stage had passed. He can reach for my face now, and he can also slide himself up the changing mat with his rugby player legs and almost fall down the back of the crib! He won't have blankets on to sleep anymore, just kicks them off. The legs are in charge.

TV lately makes me cry - last night a prog about ambulances showed a 5 month old baby whose mum tripped on a pot plant and fell down stairs through a window on to concrete - her baby hit face down and died - made my heart literally bleed. Horrific. Exacerbated my mummy neurosis massively. Poor poor woman... confusedeven an adoption story on 16 and pregnant can start me off though, but I should stress i have to have the tv on because otherwise the other plugs don't work (special block plug so things don't go to standby) so i watch when pumping and there's bugger all on.

DS has officially outgrown my favourite sleep suit, i might keep it unwashed forever and try and preserve his newborn smell...

StormyBrid Wed 08-May-13 07:00:47

eco dream feed with a bottle is easy - pick a time before she's likely to be awake, and sneak in there and just ease the bottle in. Bit of cheek stroking sometimes needed to start the sucking urge. If you're on boobs, I have no idea how it's done.

leni I had to resist the temptation to save the cutest newborn clothes, which DD is too long for now. They've all been bagged up and sent across the road to my brother, where they'll stay until I have another kid. Unless we both manage to go for baby number two at the same time, in which case I guess we'll just have to have a scrap over them.

7am and no squeaks from upstairs. This is weird... Definitely recommending a blackout blind for anyone who's struggling with babies who think 5am is time to start the day!

leniwhite Wed 08-May-13 07:27:27

Just changed DS on the floor and looked over to see a cat poo under the bed confused how do I tactfully impress the need for cleanliness around newborns?!

OMG I knew yesterday was too good to be true. After a positively perfect day where the smallest person napped in all the right places (and one of those was actually in her moses basket not the sling shock), we hit the evening from hell.

In what was probably a naive burst of enthusiasm I decided to cook an actual proper meal with hot components, despite the fact I was flying solo... what with the man being on a late shift and all. Big mistake. Huge. I had no sooner plated it up than dd had an attack of the grumps, and started to scream. She kept this up for 4 hours. 4 HOURS I tell you confused... Colic has much to answer for. In the end I just threw in the towel and got into bed with her, where we huddled up in a snotty wet cuddle, until she had puked as much of her feed as she thought right to balance her chakras down my back, and farted like a cart horse to off load the wind. Joy. I dread to think what the room smelt like when DH got in at midnight, but I'm guessing not good.

The rest of the night passed eventfully, with a few stressy feeds, a lot more crying, and absolutely zero sleep for me. I am on my knees I tell you. My knees. Looking on the bright side however she is currently kicking around in relative silence, having tired herself out with a good old stroppy cry at 6am.

Injections at 11am. Timing could not be better hmm

Leni - I'm guessing you need to have a serious talk with the cat wink

pudtat Wed 08-May-13 08:20:01

Oh Leni, tricky. At least he's not crawling though!

Eigmum Wed 08-May-13 08:27:58

worcester if mine is anything to go by you'll have a very sleepy baby for the next 24 hours and potentially an enormous poo so put the nappies on well!!

Eigmum Wed 08-May-13 08:31:07

leni I feel for you. I am totally scared of cats. Just hate them. I know sorry to you cat lovers, they freak me out! To get around my mother in law I seemed to manage to develop an allergy as I get a rash whenever I stay near her cat! so now I avoid it. Luckily for baby it isn't crawling, how many more days there?

WingDefence Wed 08-May-13 08:31:14

leni 1 when I forget my scarf for covering up, I tuck a muslin into my bra strap and it works like a dream. Done that twice in the last two days as its been too hot for a scarf.

Also, our car seat has a newborn insert which like a padded horseshoe-shaped headrest and that stops her from moving about. Did you get the cat seat from the hire place or is it yours?

DD went back to sleep at 3 then fed at 5:20 on/off till 6:30 which is unusual and annoying. Then she and I have caught up on sleep in bed while DH has been up with DS. I needed that extra sleep! She's feeding now of course smile

HV visitor later at 3. Hope she has such common sense advice as the one mentioned above...!

WingDefence Wed 08-May-13 08:33:27

Cross post with worsester. That sounds awful sad

plonko Wed 08-May-13 08:54:33

Oh dear sounds like a few broken nights (except for Stormy and her blackout blind, which I'm rather jealous of).

Leni I'm a cat owner and I just don't let my cat near the baby. She's not allowed in our room at all. Maybe suggest this for the duration of your stay? I'd also be scrabbling under the bed to clean up, that must smell! No wonder you weren't up for the visit.

Stormy the connects great. I'm like your DP and d

plonko Wed 08-May-13 09:01:09

Argh stupid phone. Anyway.

I don't trust my ability to knot. Although I'm sure I got that knot tying badge in brownies, but that'd be 20 years ago. The Connecta is a dream.

I woke to feed DS at 1.30 and then lay awake until 3.30 thinking about jabs this afternoon and how I'm going to manage my food shopping this week. Then DS kindly woke us with a colicky screaming fit at 6.30 which DP room care of. DS hasn't been this bad in over a month. Needless to say the boys are both asleep now (DS on me after we had a lengthy 'chat') and I'm wondering if its even worth attempting a nap or if I should grab some food while I can. The cat is beside herself with self pity so is better get up.

Oh and Stormy he lost his game. Hahahaha!

Eigmum - did you say sleepy?!! I can handle any amount of poo if sleepy is on the agenda grin

StormyBrid Wed 08-May-13 09:19:13

We're already thinking ahead, and planning to get an extra stair gate to fit on the bathroom door. Don't really think a litter-eating experience is a necessary character-building exercise. We keep the cats out of the baby's room, but aren't bothered about them interacting with her during the day - she's too wriggly and noisy and unpredictable so they mostly keep a wide berth. I would love to find a way to keep them out of the buggy though, even the dyson can't handle the cat hairs in there.

worsester my sympathies, four hours of screaming sounds like hell. I wish I had practical advice to offer, but my ridiculously easy-going baby means I've never had to deal with it. If it all gets too much though, remember: just put the baby somewhere safe, and go and have a cup of tea. And maybe hold off on the cooking until you know the baby's asleep in future? Although how that works with babies who can't be relied on to stay asleep, I don't know.

It's only nine in the morning, and I am fully clothed, have done the washing up, eaten breakfast, and even been to the corner shop with the baby in the mei tai. So many productivity points for me today! Did ask the man to get up and watch the baby while I nipped out, but he refused. Sigh. "I can't handle babies first thing in the morning" - what, so you're going to make me do it instead? It's not my favourite thing in the world either!

Eigmum Wed 08-May-13 09:20:55

Yep, totally whacked, like the newborn days!

leniwhite Wed 08-May-13 09:33:59

Believe me when i'm here there are no cats getting in the room! I love cats and always had them growing up but these are farm cats and the mil isn't a cleaner... There's a lamp by the bed with mud and cat hair all over it and i know the cats do tend to use this room as a toilet because it smells like pee confused i'm not one of those crazy clean freaks but where my baby is concerned I have to keep him safe no matter who gets offended. Especially as there are animals everywhere and he's still less than 6 weeks old! Last time we were here a cat jumped off the wardrobe on us at 5am, we had no idea it was in there, there's about 5 of them, one was in here as soon as we arrived and OH doesn't close the door.

Going home thursday thank god. Next time hopefully we can stay with my stepdad... If DS was a farm baby it might be different but I just worry his immune system might not be up to it

Wise words Stormy - hot food is definitely off the agenda for the foreseeable! She was asleep when I started cooking... but has an innate sixth sense as to when the food is ready.

Right, so help me... I'm waking her, or we'll have to pitch up at the doctors with an empty stomach which is never a smart move.

plonko Wed 08-May-13 09:38:08

I'm almost looking forward to some sleepy days. Hope you've put your feet up, Eig!

Stormy We've got the same strategy. The cat's housebound so she needs thundering up the stairs space, but there's no way I'm risking baby hands in the litter tray. The cat's only just started to show an interest in the baby, and as she's a funny breed (part Siamese, part Bengal I think) she's prone to some very strange behaviour.

I think I'm going to have to get all my hair cut off as DS has discovered his hands. Apparently my shoulder length locks are too tempting for him. This means going and talking a complete stranger about my new baby and any upcoming holidays FFS. I hate getting my hair cut.

ecofreckle Wed 08-May-13 09:40:10

Wing I think Leni is the least likely of us to have arranged for there to be a cat seat in her hire car! ;-)
Worcs that sounds grim poor love. Hoping that some lovely morning nap time allows you to have a relaxing bath to de-snot. Good luck with jabs.
Stormy thanks for dream feed Info. Sounds straightforward. But am on boob. Anyone out there doing dream feed boob combo? I'm guessing you just get them out and in evil baby whisperer land they just open wide, latch on beautifully, suck in a non wind generating way and then you pop them back to a deep quiet sleep. Sounds great. Hope that's how it works.
Flange (:-)) from pump lost here so dh just ordering more. We'll have lost 17 by the time dd decides to take a bottle.

StormyBrid Wed 08-May-13 09:49:52

eco I suspect actually getting the baby out of bed may be required for dream boobs. With a bottle we don't get her out at all, but one's arm ends up a bit knackered from holding the bottle in the cot for twenty minutes. Leaning over sufficiently far to get a boob in position would probably result in permanent spinal damage.

worsester where is she sleeping, when food wakes her up? If she's nearby, could be the smell. We always had that problem when she was in her Moses basket downstairs.

And she's awake early, buggeration!

leniwhite Wed 08-May-13 09:57:41

Plonko same hair issue here - I actually started pulling one out of his mouth and realised he'd already swallowed half... Not a nice experience for either of us!

pudtat Wed 08-May-13 11:52:26

Not sure if I have dream boob feed weighed off, but I get him out still swaddled and keep lights off etc and don't change nappy, just try to get him to feed to sleepy then gently put back. Wouldn't say he stays asleep but he doesn't properly wake up usually and generally drops off again quite easily.

StormyBrid Wed 08-May-13 12:26:49

Sounds suitably dreamy to me, pud, I reckon that counts.

WingDefence Wed 08-May-13 12:48:58

Flange! grin

I wake DS just enough to give her the last feed at night but I've read that a true sleeping dream feed isn't possible due to the harder sucking action reeds as opposed to a bottle? I don't talk to her or really look at her in the night feeds so she doesn't wake up as much although when she's had a really good stretch she does wake up a bit more.

We have a cat (there were two when DS was born) and he NEVER pops in the house - leni your issues sound like problems with your PIL not the poor cat! shock

WingDefence Wed 08-May-13 12:49:49

reeds should have been 'needed with a breast feed due to...'

Rainbowbabyhope Wed 08-May-13 13:35:35

leni just google feeding in a moby wrap and there are loads of videos on youtube showing you different ways of nursing in a wrap sling.

WingDefence Wed 08-May-13 13:50:00

Looks like a a friend of a baby-wearing friend is going to lend me a nearly-new Kari Me which I've not heard of before but I'll accept it with gratitude!

Eigmum - you promised me sleepy!! DD is wakey, windy, wriggly, all of that... but not sleepy.... [wails]

Stormy - you could be on to something, the moses basket was downstairs so perhaps my dinner smelt disgusting enough to wake her. Given she can sleep through her own farts she has some nerve, but just in case I'll try putting her further away from the kitchen.

Right, I have some pacing with a beady eyed baby to do.

StormyBrid Wed 08-May-13 14:20:55

Well, they've got good enough noses to be able to smell their own mothers, so frying onions or whatever must be pretty powerful to a baby nose. Or possibly when the sounds of cooking stop, the absence of noise wakes her? I'm just guessing though, they are enigmatic, these small people.

Just been to the clinic, looks like the thrush is cleared up, and she's gained seven ounces since last Wednesday! We'll ignore the fact she had four ounces of milk just before we went, because she'd just had lunch last time too. Woman at the clinic suggested I might try baby sensory classes, or massage classes. Er. No thanks? She's been stuck inside me for nine months, I think there's plenty of sensory experience on offer now in comparison. (Yes, I am a lazy sod and just can't be arsed.)

WingDefence Wed 08-May-13 14:36:08

Stormy you can do that all at home. Just google for massage instructions and sensory ideas.

plonko Wed 08-May-13 14:43:10

Not sleepy Worsester?! Oh no! Hopefully LO will settle for you soon. We're off in an hr to get DS's done (I hope, seeing I was just summoned by the GP for an 8 week postnatal appt!) and he'd better be sleepy afterwards. He's even having an early bottle in preparation.

Stormy my HV tried the same tactic. I told her that I'm very antisocial just to get her off my case. Well done On the weight gain, sounds like no thrush, blackout blinds, new teats and gaviscon are working a treat!

WingDefence Wed 08-May-13 16:02:27

HV just left here. DD now 10lb 1 and has crept up from just below the 50th centile to just above. Spoke about routines when exclusively bfing and she told me to just try to stretch out the gaps between the (starts of) feeds to 4 hours if possible and not to worry about DS waking at night (which I have been), but just to tell him to go back to sleep if he hears his sister crying at all at night.

I won't do anything about it until after the weekend anyway. One of the bonuses about not having a routine at the moment is DD's flexibility ie I don't have to think 'oh DD is due a nap/feed so I can't go out / must make sure I'm able to feed her if I'm on a long journey.
Obviously the upside is I could actually plan a long journey and know when she's likely to need a feed (vis when I got caught out on the way to SIL's on Saturday...).

And can I ask you about contraception please? blush If I'm bfing I can use condoms no thanks, the mini pill hmm, and perhaps the coil?? What have you all been considering?

SoYo Wed 08-May-13 16:56:32

Eco I've got a mental image of you laid across the Moses basket trying to wedge a boob into a sleeping baby's mouth. grin

Wing I'm having my mirena coil put back in. I've had 2 before & loved them. Nothing to remember to take, less side effects as it works locally so is a tiny hormone dose & before trying to get pregnant I hadn't had a period for 9 years. Can't wait to get it refitted!

She is finally sleepy!!!! Yay smile smile smile. I'm not about to start cooking though... oh no, I've learnt my lesson there.

Rainbowbabyhope Wed 08-May-13 17:29:34

wing I am very wary of hormone based contraceptive while breastfeeding because it does make its way into breastmilk. Even though they don't think progesterone affects babies I am eager to make sure nothing makes its way in DD's system that isn't naturally supposed to be there or is just unavoidable like vaccinations etc. I have always used condoms as additional protection even when I have been on other contraceptives before and will continue to do so for the rest of my life as I am ultra paranoid (definitely don't want any more children) so for me its no big deal to use them while I am breastfeeding.

SoYo Wed 08-May-13 18:00:23

Rainbow there was a biggish study in Sweden that showed on taking blood from babies with mothers on progesterone only contraceptives there was no detectable level of progestogen in their blood as long as started over 6 weeks and that included the depo injections and POP that have much higher metabolised levels of progestogen in the mother than a mirena. Plus it's a large molecule so very small amounts can be transmitted in breastmilk.

Completely understand that some people just don't like the idea of these things though just in case there's something missed in these studies or they then have a problem and can't help thinking it may be down to something they've taken or used.

Miss Madam is having a very unsettled afternoon, think she's a bit overtired but I can't get her to nap. I've had her out in the pram, the sling, fed, rocked, sang to, put down in Moses basket/nest/on bed. Nothing. She'll fall asleep an hour before bedtime and then not sleep when I put her to bed!

WingDefence Wed 08-May-13 18:12:21

I've never had the coil the before and have always used them pill. Back in my early 20s I had to try various different versions as I got awful migraines and then another lot made me depressed and lethargic so I could only use '2nd gen' combined pills instead of the more modern brands (I think I was reacting to the artificial hormones used in the 3rd gen pills).

Aaaanyway, to cut a log story short, I am wary of which hormone goes into which type of contraceptive eg I'd be loathe to try the implant or injection because if I reacted badly to the version of the hormones in that type, it'd be more of a pain then just stopping a new pill.

What's the benefit between the IUS (the one with hormones?) and the IUD (the one without - which I'm guessing would be fine for bfing?)? I have looked this up on the NHS website but personal experiences are good to read x

Rainbowbabyhope Wed 08-May-13 18:20:31

SoYo thanks for the info - it's hard to know what to do sometimes even when there are studies out there which are reassuring. I think it comes from having experienced being the tiny percentage of people for whom something goes wrong when DD1 died - makes me wary of doing anything with even the possibility of any tiny risk when it comes to DD2 although I am generally a very relaxed person.

SoYo Wed 08-May-13 18:31:37

Completely understand Rainbow, that would change your outlook & perspective on everything forever. smile

Wing the IUD has no hormones, lasts 4-7yrs (depending on type), works by making the uterus a hostile environment for sperm but has a 1-3% failure rate and can make your periods much heavier. IUS is progesterone only, makes 97% of people's periods lighter and shorter (40% stop completely) but can be irregular for first 3-6months. Rare side effects (less than 10% of people) are lower libido & spots, old progesterone contraceptives caused weight gain but a big study done on implant and mirena showed none I'd you didn't eat more (makes sense!). It's the quickest hormonal form for fertility returning after removal and lasts 5yrs. As a contraceptive it's 99.97% effective (better than sterilisation). I found the first fitting really painful for 48hrs but second one was fine and I was 19 for first one. If you're worried you wouldn't get on with it maybe try cerazette (the progesterone only pill with lowest side effects). This has less of an effect on periods & slightly more side effects but is obviously easier to stop & if you get on with that you should be fine with mirena or implant. The only progesterone one I wouldn't recommend is the drop injections as it has a much higher side effect rate & can make your periods very irregular.

That was a very long post but quite nice to use my work brain for 5mins!

StormyBrid Wed 08-May-13 18:43:39

SoYo I had to laugh at the idea of cerazette having little effect on periods. I had a light period for nine months on the sodding stuff. And I don't trust the coil as my impending nephew or niece was conceived with one in!

WingDefence Wed 08-May-13 18:45:47

SoYo that's a great amount of info - what do you do?!

If any of you want to know about accounting or auditing standards, I'm your gal grin

plonko Wed 08-May-13 18:48:03

Wing I'm pill all the way, but I must have been on about 4 different ones before I found one that didn't give me migraines/spots/symptoms of depression. I had an implant when I was 19 and hated the goddamn thing. Got a prescription today for Femodette (combined pill) because the doctor doing DS's jabs laughed when I told him we were using the withdrawal method grin

Worsester sleepy yet? DS is a grumpy little bugger when awake now. Slightly apprehensive about the night ahead! Looks like he's decided to sack off the bedtime routine as he's not even awake right now...

Eigmum Wed 08-May-13 19:30:18

My contraception plan is not having sex! Nipple thrush is a passion killer. I found I wasn't up for it at all last time until I stopped breastfeeding!

Eigmum Wed 08-May-13 19:31:43

Yep, started a bit grumpy, lots of sleep though for 24 hours, finally seeming to be back to her old self now. Old self for dd is still moderately cranky!

Eigmum Wed 08-May-13 19:33:29

Wingd . I feel we must have much in common. We both already have sons who we breastfeed a bit and now daughters who love the boob. I also play wing defence in netball and I am an accountant!

plonko Wed 08-May-13 19:46:40

Eig grin that last post really made me smile. By the way, I'm a qualified wine salesperson, so if you need any tips...

DS is so sleepy. And a bit peaky looking. I found holding him still for the jabs easy, but this is breaking my heart a bit. He's too sleepy to feed properly - and his default setting is hungry, smiley. On the other hand, I think he might sleep through.

KFFOREVER Wed 08-May-13 20:11:21

Hi ladies. Just wanted to pop in and say hi. Been a lurker but never had time or energy to join in. My iron has been very low since the birth of DS so ive really struggled with caring for ds and trying to carry on with normal living. Sleepless nights dont help. My DS is 8wks. He had jabs today and hes clingy grumpy. I think we have a long night ahead. I cant promise i will be a regular on here but just wanted to congratulate you all on your new arrivals and well done. I never could imagine how hard it could be caring for a newborn.

Eigmum Wed 08-May-13 20:26:09

plonko we had the same issue last night, too tired to feed, tonight however we are starving. 4 ounces and both boobs ( and they were full as I was a bit engorged as she didn't feed as well before) and still going!

WingDefence Wed 08-May-13 20:29:40

Eig are you my double MN sockpuppet? wink

I have to say that my boobs, as lovely and large as they are now, do put me off The Sex somewhat as I'm worried about leaking and so I'd want to keep my bra on, poor DH. But having had a low libido while pg I do want to start up again pretty soon.

plonko that's good to know and also explains your NN!

Welcome kfforever smile Sorry to hear you've been having a rough time of it. Sharing on here does help though.

Well DD was v tired and didn't take any of her bottle from DH earlier but was falling asleep on me so I thought I'd swaddle her, being her upstairs and feed her before putting her down now for the night instead of having her sleep on me until her last feed. When I started writing this post it had worked but she's just got her arms out and is preparing to cry... Best go hmm

Eigmum Wed 08-May-13 20:30:19

KF welcome, I know it's harder than people tell you but it gets better and it's lovey being on here and sharing stuff as we are all at the same ish point. having a low iron count makes it very tough. big hug.

Dd has finally got some colour tonight. plonko imagine how much more it would break your heart if little one got one of these diseases for real.... That's what I tell myself anyway...

Eigmum Wed 08-May-13 20:39:19

Wingd I am your double only not as good with icons! I had no sex drive at all while pregnant, 18 weeks of vomiting also being a passion killer, it's up there with nipple thrush and hard to say which is worse! So dh reminded me we haven't had sex since dd was conceived so if i breastfeed as planned to three months then that's 12 months of no sex. I hadn't even realized that til he mentioned it... Too busy throwing up, holding a job down, caring fr a toddler and now a newborn to even notice , oops. Better make some effort next month....

Plonko - smallest person isn't just sleepy she is utterly zonked out, and I hate to say it, but it's freaking me out. I'm so used to her stropping all evening that this current situation feels eerily quiet. I must have been in 50 times already to check she is breathing blush Glad I was warned or I'd be a basket case by now grin

SoYo Wed 08-May-13 21:29:13

Stormy when I said it had little effect on periods I meant little good effect like mirena has! That's what happened to me on depo injections & I got fat & spotty. Urgh.

Plonko I could absolutely use your expertise, which is the best value & which is the nicest NZSB (to be fair I like most) & where can I buy Astrolabe? God I love wine

Wing I'm an obs & gynae registrar it's my MN guilty secret so you have to promise not to tell!

As for you two accountants I daren't even look at my bank balance (it was already a little depleted at the start of mat leave after too many baby purchases) but when I do I'm sure I'll need you.

Has anyone managed to implement a bedtime before yours in what was previously the witching hour? I currently have no routine at all & am letting Madam do everything on demand but I think an hour to myself in the evening might keep me a bit more sane the rest of the time as I think I'm starting to loo my sense of humour!

SoYo Wed 08-May-13 21:31:02

As fOr the sex question, I asked DH when he thought we'd have sex again (I'm not in any rush) & he answered "when it appeals more than anap, so it could be a while!"

SoYo Wed 08-May-13 21:31:24

That should say A NAP not anap

leniwhite Wed 08-May-13 23:10:15

Hava, Wing - you said 'to cut a log story short'! God I'm getting worse...

Ah sex... We've had a little dabble, followed by a panic about the idea we'd forgotten to use any form of contraception because we'd not done either sex or contraception for ages! I was the raging horn monster in my second trimester - literally. Now having either a period or a bleed from levonelle. Felt like a bit of a twat explaining to my gp that i needed it, like being a teenager all over again...

Gp also gave me cerazette without really asking if i wanted it. She just said 'don't you want the coil?' And then when I declined she wrote the script for the pill. I'm reticent as it kills my libido completely and OH and I REALLY need to get it back on track now we've got through the ivf.

Had a lovely day today, saw my DF, who did the usual repeating of the sane stories as last time, and making us go to show the baby to his mate in a shop with a parrot and two snakes (?). Then visited OH's childhood ex who I've also known since she was a teenager and whose mum is an HV (she's moved back home after suffering depression) and weighed DS - he started at 7lbs 2 at birth almost 6 weeks ago and is now 9lbs 9! What a fatty shock felt nice to feed him there and talk about BF stuff with someone who deals with new mums everyday but is also a friend. So I'm getting there with feeding in front of people now, quite proud of myself.

Think DS got a bit overwhelmed by all the new sights/sounds/faces, all grisly by the end of it. Currently asleep with half my nipple in his mouth.

So everyone has useful skills - unless anyone needs some music written I'm no use at all!

Need some recommendations for nursing tops - anyone tried any brands?

leniwhite Wed 08-May-13 23:10:43

I meant 'haha' obviously

KFFOREVER Wed 08-May-13 23:17:26

Worse- mine is zonked out too well he was until he became hungry. Hope he goes back to sleep after.

Sex? Whats that? Lol

My guilty secret is that im a social worker. please dont run away from me

leniwhite Wed 08-May-13 23:17:46

Ooo and those BFing have you seen breastfeeding network site? Some really useful factsheets about meds and milk and they have a service where you can call up and a pharmacist tells you if you can take any medication. Even stuff that hasn't been officially tested. Plus i found out BM keeps for 6 hours fresh when not in the fridge grin

pudtat Thu 09-May-13 03:16:48

Hmmm, contraception. We tried to get a condom on the other day and failed - that really does make you feel like a teenager! So have been sensible and avoided the actual deed. However, DH would like to try! Have been speaking to gp and checking out FPA website on her rec since. Was on Cerazette before but as I think I said down thread, this left my libido on the floor which caused us some issues. It picked up shortly after I stopped taking it and read Fifty Shades although wasn't great after early weeks of pg. I asked about other mini pill options but wasn't keen to hear reliability up to 3% less (can't be on combined as bf and other issues). Considering IUS although wondering if hormone will have same effect, or IUD but less effective apparently. Tis a minefield.

pudtat Thu 09-May-13 03:24:36

Interesting Leni. I've just been on Kellymom panicking that my milks drying up as boobs not getting engorged so much any more. While this is possible ( I'm off the Domperidone now and some people need to keep taking it) it seems this could also be normal, so fx.

Picking up Real Nappy trial bin tomorrow (one month trial offered by the council) so wish me luck!

SoYo Thu 09-May-13 03:50:24

Yay, first post-3am waking for a week! Think tonight's nice cold room has helped.

Pud official line is if one has affected libido they all may, personal experience is mine was much lower on depo & cerazette & completely five on IUS which I assume is because the dose is lower. If you're worried & your periods aren't usually too heavy why not try IUD with no hormones?

SoYo Thu 09-May-13 03:54:33

Spoke too soon,transfer fail.

WingDefence Thu 09-May-13 04:41:28

Leni - you said the 'sane stories'! Does your DF tell insane ones to? grin
I'm in awe at your music writing skills smile

We've had one of those miracle nights really. I finally got DD to sleep in her basket up in our room at 8:50 after a bit more of a feed. Then we changed her and tried to get her to have some of the expressed bottle at 10:15 but she was completely zonked and wouldn't wake so we put her back in the basket. She went through till 4:20! shock I did hear her being noisy at 1:30 then 2 something as wel but I can't complain about being woken.

She's currently feeding and doing the most gigantic poos/wet farts. Nice! I'm doing the MN pampers trial so I hope this nappy stands up to the onslaught!

SoYo, hope you managed it?

pudtat Thu 09-May-13 06:10:46

Hi SoYo, sadly periods were always pretty heavy, though as I had t had one since 1999 up to last year, and only had 2 before getting pg I'm somewhat out of practice!

Glad nights not too bad. When you talk about transfer fails do you mean from boob to basket?

SoYo Thu 09-May-13 07:03:31

Yep Pud, transfer from bomb to basket to sleep.

Wing I managed it at 4, then she was up again at 5.30 and again now & I think this is it for the day. Sounds like you had a great night! Well done!

StormyBrid Thu 09-May-13 07:17:01

Good lord, pud, you're making me feel young - I didn't even start mine until 1999!

Skills - if anyone needs their spelling, punctuation, or grammar checking, I'm your woman. I also make a mean cup of tea.

SoYo yes, you will definitely feel better having an hour to yourself in the evenings. It's an hour in which you're not having to worry about baby, and is excellent for recharging. Our witching hour ends with bedtime. Sometimes she's too screamy to take a bottle, and has to be left in her cot for half an hour to chill out (that's not half an hour of crying, by the way, just of her being calm and maybe having a catnap - she chills right out when she's swaddled and in her cot with her dummy).

Oh, and if arm escapes are causing transfer fails, get a swaddle pod thingy, that zips up the front. We've yet to have a single escape from ours. I dread the day she outgrows it.

Good night last night - she was asleep before 8, dream feed at 11.30, and didn't wake up for the next one until 4! It's an hour later than usual. So I'm now being cautiously optimistic that at some point over the next few weeks she may end up dropping that feed.

Eigmum Thu 09-May-13 07:17:46

Ok well d day, or should I say b day has come. Little one can't kick the thrush and it's making her throat hurt as she is tongue thrusting and drooling more than ever. I have had three weeks of strong anti fungal drugs and while it is bearable I am not over it. I am not sure I am prepared to keep medicating myself and her just to keep breastfeeding so I am considering just stopping altogether. I knw I'll feel guilty, especially if she gets ill but I'm worried this thrush is making her crampy and windy as well as sore throat. I know just stopping won't clear it up but at least I'll know that I am not re infecting her each time I feed. I've done all the wheat and dairy elimination and it's making me even more knackered along with the drugs, the side effect of which is liver damage for prolonged use.... Doc doesn't want to give me another week .... Typing it out makes it look like I have made my choice...

plonko Thu 09-May-13 07:28:29

Ooh this thread is busy these days isn't it! Hi KF, welcome. Hope you feel better soon, low irons a bugger.

DS grumbled in his sleep for most of the night, and woke up screaming at 2am. Lucky for me DP chose this time to develop the mother of all wheezy coughs (hay fever). I tried placating DS with a bottle, which he kindly vomited all over me and refused a top up. Night fail! Oh well he's feeding sloooowly again now, lets hope this lot stays down.
I think we'll be taking it easy today.

On the subject of sex...we did it quite a lot while I was pg. there was a chunk in the middle when I got signed off for exhaustion and I went on strike, but that was shortlived. I somehow managed it at 41 weeks, but clearly only as an attempt to induce (which failed).

SoYo if you're a fan of astrolabe it might be worth calling your local Majestic or waitrose. Both have a dedicated service of people like me, and can usually point you in the right direction. Wine Searcher also v useful for specific, limited wines. I'd also try St Clair Pioneer Block, Vavasour and Kings Favour. All bloody lovely.

Eigmum Thu 09-May-13 07:30:33

stormy what is the swaddle pod thing?

plonko Thu 09-May-13 07:37:31

It does rather appear that you have Eig and if so then great. Go for it. You've given your baby an amazing start but there comes a point when enoughs enough and you can enjoy your baby more. And as you say, if it stops you passing thrush back and forth and makes baby more comfortable then it's worth it. Well done for persevering, now give yourself a break. And welcome to The Guilt grin, me and Stormy can show you around.

Hmmmm, nice though it was to have her littlest-ship zonked out early evening, the downside was she woke up full of beans at 11.30pm and was up partying all night. I swear every single time I looked in her direction there was a little pair of beady eyes staring at me. Anyone else get slightly freaked out by the way they sparkle at night? It's like having one's own personal resident alien.

Soooo, that'll be another night where mummy got no sleep at all, and baby thought it would be just hilarious to finish it by puking all over her/the bed/the duvet and herself. At 5am I made an executive decision to declare it morning, so we all got up, showered and started the day. Weirdly this felt quite late. Once upon a time 5am seemed like a criminally early start, but now.. phut... it's a lie in.

Oh Eig - you're super mum, and believe me in your position I'd have got the bottle out weeks ago. You've given your small person the best possible start, so now's the time to start thinking of yourself as well. Forget The Guilt, it doesn't apply.

Stormy - Don't!!!! I'm not even going to think about how old I was in 1999... but put it this way, by your standards I'm currently one step away from a zimmer frame.

As for sex. I'm sorry, what's that again? grin

TeaOperated Thu 09-May-13 08:15:32

Morning folks!

Argh, contraception. My sex drive plummeted when I was PG, although just about kept things ticking over - and dtd at v nearly 42 weeks (still needed induction). It seems to be back now stitches all better, and we've used condoms, although naps are generally at least as appealing. I think I'll probably go for the mirena coil at my 6 week check as despite more than 10 years on the pill, I no longer trust my post baby short term memory to take a mini pill at the same time every day! My best mate is in the same line of work as Soyo so will be getting her advice pre 6 week check.

Eig

Eigmum Thu 09-May-13 08:26:52

stormy 1999! Bloody hell I could probably be your mother! Got a spare Zimmer worsester !!

TeaOperated Thu 09-May-13 08:32:56

Oops, LO's foot posted for me!

Eig, sounds like you've done amazingly keeping going this long. Please don't feel guilty for making the right decision for you and your baby. I'd ebfing, but largely because it's been relatively easy so far. I wasn't breastfed, neither was my wee brother, and we've both turned out just fine - healthy, bright and we love our mum!

I hate how we're made to feel guilty for making the decisions that are best for us and our babies. Routines, feeding, dummies - all decisions that can only be made by individual mums who understand best what 's right for us and our individual babies in our individual circumstances. No mum has ever deliberately made a bad choice for her child, and in 20 years time all our babies will be doing just fine, whether fed bottle or boob, on demand or by on a schedule.

Rant over. For now.

DH went back to work on Tues and my parents are up helping this week. Wondering if I have the brass neck to ask them to clean... We went into Edinburgh yesterday to shop for my birthday present and for a nice lunch. LO loved the posh restaurant, hated the posh shops (Hobbs etc) but permitted me to buy a red cardy from Joules. She loved M&S but probably because every member of staff doted on her! We're both exhausted today, though! I fed in public 3 times, once in Starbucks, once in the restaurant, and once (after a timing miscalculation) on the train home. Might just stick to the sofa today!

StormyBrid Thu 09-May-13 08:35:35

Eig it does sound like you've made your choice. She had nine weeks of boob juice though, you did a grand job, especially with the thrush. Don't beat yourself up over stopping. Think of the freedom bottles allow instead!

This is the swaddle pod we have; I went for the houdini version because we had such trouble with arm escapes, but it's possible a normal one would work just as well.

worsester I often think we have an alien in the house - put baby on the changing mat and stand at the head end, looking at her upside down. Very alien looking face!

I'm not that young - 28 on Tuesday!

The squeaky one was asleep when I went in at 7.45, but woke up as I was chattering and opening the blind. Gave me the biggest gummy grin in her cot, which got the day off to a nice start. Currently on the playmat staring at me (I should be playing, not mumsnetting) and making really entertaining noises.

plonko Thu 09-May-13 08:56:18

Oops sorry I didn't mean anything by The Guilt blush it seems to have been taken the wrong way as I was being tongue in cheek.

I won't mention my age then...

Eigmum Thu 09-May-13 09:04:55

Stormy, just order that one on amazon, thanks! Will be here tonight, how speedy! Yes, off to get bottle ready for next feed... So only a decade younger than me then! You missed the 80's perm phase, I am cool with my um not breastfeeding me but the perm when I was 8 I don't forgive her for!!

On a positive note, hubbie and I are off to st James palace on Monday night for a dinner hosted by prince Charles so night nanny is back fr two nights ( a pre night being essential to make sure baby ok! Yeah! ) .

StormyBrid Thu 09-May-13 09:14:16

I do vaguely remember the eighties, but I try to block them out!

leniwhite Thu 09-May-13 09:22:26

I was on tour in Europe with a band in 1999 - my how rock n roll! Things have certainly changed!

I think I'm having a period now coincidentally, surely they don't come back so soon?

Soyo maybe you're the one in the know here - i took the levonelle on friday last week and started bleeding yesterday...

DS is pooing it up a storm here, and got some very weird sleep too, thrashing around 'fighting the ghosties' as i call it whilst eyes are closed and then doing a cry but immediately then stopping and smiling. The alien thing is true! He freaks me out sometimes.

plonko Thu 09-May-13 09:27:20

I was picking my options at school in 1999 <ducks for cover>

Tea I'm impressed! Taking it easy today definitely seems a good reward.

WingDefence Thu 09-May-13 09:32:18

Wow Eig - that's v impressive! Plonko I don't thing anyone took the reference to The Guilt as anything other than tongue in cheek - and anyway we all get attacks of TG every so often about various things, don't we?

I'm not quite a decade older than you Stormy. Is it weird that I can't actually remember how old I was /in which year I started my periods? hmm

I've never heard of astrolabe wine. I'm guessing it's not the grape variety but is a maker? I keep thinking you actually mean a band but I can't put my finger on the name...

I forgot to say that after DD's early morning feed (she wanted to drain both sides so she was very hungry!) she was wide awake with those alien glittering eyes but I just put her in the basket. She even got one arm out but I ignored her snuffling and she went back to sleep till 7:40! DS came into our bed at 6:30 and knocked into one of my boulder boobs which was a bit painful but DH took him downstairs and let me sleep a bit longer.

I'm <gulp> checking out an NCT babies group this morning in a nearby town. If DH had been at work I'd have got out to groups weeks ago. Hope it isn't too cliquey.

StormyBrid Thu 09-May-13 09:32:50

GCSE options, plonko? Me too. grin I was also hitting the teenage rebellion stage, and taking up smoking, and realising that actually, the world wouldn't end if I bunked off and went and hung about in a graveyard. Fun times...

StormyBrid Thu 09-May-13 09:34:19

Nice one, Wing! There is definitely something to be said for them going back to sleep.

WingDefence Thu 09-May-13 09:35:20

Leni, was it a band we may have heard of? DH is a huge music fan and is old so may do grin

I graduated in 1998 and was drinking and partying in London in '99!

Eigmum Thu 09-May-13 09:42:05

I graduated in 1997 so was doing my accounting exams in 99 while you guys were at school or being rock and roll!

plonko I loved your message and agree about the guilt, it's there! Now just got to get her to take more than 3 ounces from the bottle in one go!

plonko Thu 09-May-13 09:48:16

Stormy yep I was picking my GCSEs. Oooh you sound like you were a right little mardy teenager. I think I waited for the millenium before trying my first cigarette, but I did get locked in a graveyard after school one day.

Wing Astrolabe is a brand name of New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc. Very nice wine, SoYo has good taste grin. Let us know how the NCT mummies are. I've been very lazy a complete chicken about getting out and meeting people, so keen to hear experiences.

Well I really ought to be either napping or in the shower but I've found myself weighing up my going-back-to-work options. Hmm. Once travel costs and the like are taken into account I might only be working for £40 a week!

Eigmum Thu 09-May-13 09:50:03

Given I didn't start my periods til I was 15 I can't be stormy's mum. Well that's one less thing to worry about today. Little one has had 2.5 ounces and is asleep under baby gym .... Do I keep offering the bottle or wait for next feed? M

Eigmum Thu 09-May-13 09:50:24

Meant ummm not m !

pudtat Thu 09-May-13 09:51:36

Being prematurely middle aged in 1999 I was taking the exams which would qualify me as a financial adviser (I'm now an investment manager) and buying my first flat and (as the start of this discussion will attest ) starting depo injections. I'm not that old... Am I?

Eig, you've done great. Now enjoy your decision, and hopefully a swift recovery for both of you.

StormyBrid Thu 09-May-13 09:56:59

Yeah, I hit fourteen and turned into a right horror. grin

Eig if she's fallen asleep and won't take any more, leave it for now. If she's used to boobs two and a half ounces isn't a bad start. Are you going to be offering a bottle whenever, or spacing them out, or what?

Eigmum Thu 09-May-13 10:13:32

stormy going to try an stick to her routine ish as I don't think demand feeding is great with a bottle as it takes them longer to digest.

StormyBrid Thu 09-May-13 10:22:33

Mm, if you were offering a bottle on demand she'd never get hungry enough to take a big bottle in one go. Or that certainly seems to be the case for us, anyway. Three hours between bottles, she'll manage three ounces, maybe slightly more. Two hours between? No chance.

Eigmum Thu 09-May-13 10:25:18

So my plan is roughly 7am, 10am, 2pm, 5/6pm split feed, 10pm, 2/3am. With my ds oh did 10pm feed and first thing in morning feed which worked well. She is 12 pounds at 9 weeks old so should be on 5 ounces plus a feed but lets see where we get too, as she's up in the 75th percentile she is clearly doing ok.

Eigmum Thu 09-May-13 10:34:11

Although given she didn't take much just now going to do 6,9,12,3 today to get her used to bottle I think ...

leniwhite Thu 09-May-13 11:47:39

Nope I doubt anyone beyond the West Country heard of us! But it was fun, and it led to what I do now in some bands that people have heard of ;) earned my stripes shall we say.

Just had some elderly aunties visit but DS decided of course he'd rather eat and cuddle with mummy than be paraded wink I'm getting that awful thing where I want to tell my mil she's not holding him properly or that I want him back!

StormyBrid Thu 09-May-13 11:51:01

I've given up worrying about "should" when it comes to amounts. We're at ten pounds four ounces (yeah! Broke the ten pound barrier!) which, according to the formula box and the pounds times two and a half thing means about 25oz a day. She's just not interested in that much. Mind you, she keeps trying to say she's full after two ounces, and I refuse to accept that! Seven feeds a day still, so she needs a minimum of three every feed. Anyroad, you could always get her weighed once a week for a few weeks, just to check things are on track.

plonko Thu 09-May-13 12:45:06

Eig we found that DS got used to the bottles quickly and just wanted more and more. He usually guzzles a bottle very quickly but then doesn't want more for about 4 hours, and regularly goes 7-8 hours between feeds at night. I'm of the same opinion as Stormy, and have given up worrying about amounts (because according to the box he shouldn't be on this much until he's 4 months old). It's hard to know what to do when all the experts are saying feed on demand and follow baby's lead, but my DS hasn't read the side of the formula tin.

Good luck with the formula, hopefully it'll make everything much easier for you.

StormyBrid Thu 09-May-13 12:47:27

Feed on demand my bum. Doesn't work when you've got a baby that doesn't like eating!

Eigmum Thu 09-May-13 13:16:39

Agree, so far dealing with guilt well, really enjoying a caffeinated tea and two chocolate biscuits without fear of making her thrush worse!

WingDefence Thu 09-May-13 14:28:19

Stormy, remind me how old your DD is as mine is roughly the same weight at six weeks confused

The NCT babies group was... big. I did know there was a children's centre-run singing group before hand and I walked into this big space to find roughly 40 women and babies everywhere. There was one huge oval table so I found a seat at the end but it meant I could only talk to one lady with a 5mo and who sent 20 mins telling me the details of her awful birth sad

On the upside, I did meet the sling librarian and tried on a moby thing which apparently is like the Kari me. DH came in at the end as I was wearing DD and was very unimpressed but that's because he likes the baby bjorn sod him I thought it was lovely actually, like she was part of me again. Blimey I am turning into a BFing, baby-wearing hippy blush grin

WingDefence Thu 09-May-13 14:31:04

I didn't know there was a singing thing first.

StormyBrid Thu 09-May-13 14:59:05

Ah, Wing, nothing wrong with being a baby-wearing hippy if it makes you happy! DD is nine weeks tomorrow (and about six hours older than Eig's). 7lbs 13.5oz at birth, dropped to 7lbs 0.5oz by day 5, switched to formula but her appetite's not great, and then we had the silent reflux issues too, so she's not growing as fast as some. She's as long as she should be, just not carrying the rolls that babies with actual appetites have. Worries me though - on the centiles chart she was halfway between 50 and 75 at birth, just over 25 now. Hoping she'll catch herself up eventually.

We're now trying the third nap of the day. Fingers crossed it goes better than the first two...

Eigmum Thu 09-May-13 15:22:32

Yes we are trying a third nap too, other two have been awful, managed to get 3 ounces down her.... stormy can't believe we have managed 9 weeks tomorrow. Well done us!

StormyBrid Thu 09-May-13 15:28:59

Bizarre, isn't it? Where did the time go? If I were feeling masochistic (and if I'd regained the ability to do mental arithmetic) I'd try to work out how much sleep I've had in those nine weeks.

What do you do with disaster naps, Eig?

Eigmum Thu 09-May-13 15:50:02

At this point now if she goes 45 mins I accept that's it. Anything less and I have buggy ready and we're off out for a walk. At lunchtime I like her to go longer ( today as I know she didn't eat much at 10 I lifted her early and fed her early ) but normally I leave her a bit to resettle. If that doesn't work I go for the buggy approach to give her a chance to get a bit more sleep. I find if she doesn't sleep well she doesn't eat well and it's a vicious circle. My other fall back is to rock her to sleep and place get in the Moses basket in front of the tumble dryer!

Eigmum Thu 09-May-13 15:55:25

Place her in, clearly while I have lost weight I don't fit in the Moses basket!

StormyBrid Thu 09-May-13 15:59:13

We are having such a nap fail, I think she only managed twenty minutes before she started bitching. Keeps going quiet then starting again. Sigh. This is probably going to result in an impromptu nap after the feed due in half an hour. Cannot wait for the man to get home so I can turn my brain off for a bit.

WingDefence Thu 09-May-13 17:14:23

Well I assumed that DD would be feeding like a manic thing but actually she's napped a fair amount and fed seemingly less than normal so she's bound to be a milk monster tonight...

StormyBrid Thu 09-May-13 18:34:34

Last nap of the day = success! The 5.15-6pm pre-bath catnap took place in the buggy in the living room, and went perfectly. DD is now in the bath giving her dad dirty looks because he won't stop tickling the backs of her knees.

First daddy-daughter outing on Saturday morning is now planned out - he's going to enter her into the local paper's cute small people competition. And plans for the birthday are underway - he's got Tuesday through Friday off, so I get the entire Tuesday off duty! And going out for a drink Wednesday night, he's covering Thursday morning, so I can get shitfaced. grin

Is half past six too early to go to bed?

leniwhite Thu 09-May-13 19:05:22

Currently at Reading services having an emergency feed of much thinner milk than normal, resulting in DS coughing it into OH's eye whilst I sit in the back of the car laughing. Although I'm about to try and change a pooey nappy on my lap so I expect roles to reverse shortly...

StormyBrid Thu 09-May-13 19:22:45

Oh, that has the potential to be messy, leni. Do let us know how it goes!

WingDefence Thu 09-May-13 19:29:54

Nappy report now please! The last two nappies here have both involved giant poos going up the back onto the vest. Argh!

SoYo Thu 09-May-13 20:10:58

We've had 2 full poonami situations today & emergency tumble drying of the sleeping bag. It's the last night at my parents & I'm messing with it by trying to implement an earlier bedtime. Never tried before 9ish before.
I'm trying to start bedtime an hour earlier than the rest of the week just to see how we get on because she was looking tired (although isn't now, typical) & I didn't want her to nap just before bed. Wish us luck, it might be a huge error. I've gone for bath, massage, book, feed then hopefully down to sleep.

My only problem is that I haven't got a baby monitor here so I'll either have to stay upstairs if we succeed or run up every 5mins & try not to wake her! Error!

WingDefence Thu 09-May-13 20:28:31

SoYo if you have an iPhone or ipad you can download apps. I used a free one once called Evoz (I think) where I left my ipad in a hotel room plugged in and auto turn-off turned off and my phone with the same app so that DH and I could go for one drink in the hotel bar last year when I was at a conference and they had joined me for the night.

leniwhite Thu 09-May-13 20:59:32

Just a wet fart!

WingDefence Thu 09-May-13 21:10:11

Oh those bloomin wet farts!

Well we've done again what we did last night (of course, I say 'we'...) and put DD down upstairs in the basket at 8:45 and we'll try to wake her again for a change and feed before we go to bed. I would go to bed myself now until then but I know I'll get into a really deep sleep and will then feel rotten and resentful when I have to wake up again.

Hope we all have good nights ahead x

Eigmum Thu 09-May-13 21:47:20

We have had no poo for 36 hours and seem a bit stressed! Let's hope it comes soon....

SoYo Thu 09-May-13 22:13:03

Wing you're a star, I'm sat downstairs with a glass of wine & iSitter downloaded having a lovely evening. I'm sure I might pay for it overnight but now it seems worth it. First evening time off I've had since she was born & it's lovely. grin

SoYo Thu 09-May-13 22:33:36

Wing are you going to wake yours up when you go to bed for a feed? I can't decide. I'm loath to if she doesn't wake up but I hate being woken up in the first 2hrs after going to bed! Opinions please....

WingDefence Thu 09-May-13 22:49:49

Hurrah for an evening off!

It feels like that here too when she's upstairs. DS has always been an excellent sleeper so these past two nights have been so quiet it's almost like I've forgotten we have children shock

I was also loathe to wake her half hour ago but I wanted to change her nappy for the night ahead and said to DH (who didn't want me to wake her) that if she woke enough for a feed, great I'd pop her on but if she didn't, I'd not bother and see what happens... She has woken up just enough for a ten min feed and I'm going to try the transfer now...

SoYo Thu 09-May-13 23:08:16

I'd just decided she was sound asleep & I would leave her when I knocked a pint of water with lts of ice cubes over & she started stirring so I've picked her p to feed her. We'll see how this goes!

WingDefence Fri 10-May-13 00:02:13

Well transfer had all gone fine but she unswaddled herself and has woken up again. First time I've had to feed her this early since the first week or two. Serves me right after the miracle night last night sad

pudtat Fri 10-May-13 01:41:16

Wing, sometimes I can get away with a gently brisk and not engaged reswaddle without feed if I'm genuinely confident he won't be hungry. Boy has a mammoth per bed feed tonight, but has just gone 5.5 hours since his bedtime. Sadly I didn't go to bed when he did but hey...

Re 10 min night feeds, this from the evil ha ha baby whisperer made a lot of sense to me/us and ensuring I don't let him stop at this helps him go longer between. whisperer quencher&f=false link

pudtat Fri 10-May-13 01:45:00

Page 102 result.

pudtat Fri 10-May-13 01:46:14

Go SoYo for evening off wine - hope you enjoyed it. smile

SoYo Fri 10-May-13 02:37:14

I did enjoy it & we're up at about the same time as if I'd had her asleep by 10 so about 1hr less sleep but worth it for the couple of hrs off. We'll see how the rest of the ight goes. For some reason it's really sore (toe curling) her feeding from the right side so I'd like this one over quickly!

WingDefence Fri 10-May-13 02:46:42

Thanks pud. She just naturally came off then - normally shelled for far longer on each side. Eg when she cluster feeds it can be up to 30 mins on/off before I swap her over.

Well after last night comes rubbish night! Can't believe I'm up again after only 2.5 hrs. Must be the shortest first stretch since the first week or so (can't check on phone). Grr. I will feed, probably change once she's fed and see what happens.

WingDefence Fri 10-May-13 02:47:19

* she'll feed

Eigmum Fri 10-May-13 03:48:04

Ok so this is super hard. LO has hardly taken any milk all day ( about 12 oz) which is under half what she should be. Thrush looks worse on her and she can't poo. My boobs are like boulders and having to pump and dump as milk is infected with thrush is no fun. Nor is crying self to sleep. So what do I do? Keep going with the formula? Persuade doc for yet more thrush meds that make me feel crappy and keep feeding her? Everyone around me is so obsessed with her taking a bottle. Need to try and sleep. If she was ok and pooing and getting over thrush I would be happy re formula. But if we are down to yet more interventions for constipation and thrush getting worse then I would rather feed her.

pudtat Fri 10-May-13 05:10:38

Eig, as she's been bf up to now she won't take the 'right' amount of formula for a while. Think the average size of a bf feed is estimated to be c2.5oz and b feeds stay about the same size up to 6 months, the content simply changes. So her tummy won't be used to taking anything like the formula volumes she'd be on if she'd been ff up to now.

As for your boobs, they will remain sore until your milk goes. There are recs for how to stop and generally involves pumping for shorter periods reducing every few days. Need to be careful that don't cause mastitis or similar from engorgement issues. Think there might even be meds your doc can prescribe to help dry up supply but not sure... Think a friend mentioned this to me a while ago.

If you can't bear to bin it, this resource on kellymom gives ideas on reducing risks of infection but says its fine to give while receiving treatment.

Perhaps bottle feeding mostly expressed milk is a happy medium while you both recover and you can consider you options if you're still not 100% sure.

Hope you feel better soon whatever. Hugs.

SoYo Fri 10-May-13 05:41:31

Up again. She's been up bang on everyb3hrs overnight. 8.20. 11.15, 2.20 & 5.20. It's meant an extra overnight feed for me but for my evening off I think I can cope with that.

Eig I hope you get sorted. It's really early days in your switch over & within a few days you'll feel much better about all of it but I can see its just o tempting to BF now. Just go with what feels right for you & make sure you look after your boobs, Pud's right you not want mastitis on top of everything else you're having to deal with. brew

StormyBrid Fri 10-May-13 07:07:04

Eig our first 24 hours on formula, she only had 13 ounces. Stick with it a few days and see how it goes - her tummy should stretch soon enough.

Oh sod, she's just woken up. So much for long name-checking post and a leisurely breakfast!

HHhheeelllpppp... I've got a bottle refuser on my hands. Weird as she started fine, but due to DH being unhelpful unavailable for quite a few evenings the 9pm bottle idea kind of got shelved, and now she won't take it. Pants. Utter pants. I was looking forward to spending a bit more time wearing something other than saggy unflattering bras, and a bit less pinned to the sofa as well. Not gonna happen if her ladyship has anything to do with it. Little madam.

So, any ideas? I'm thinking it may be the nipples. The Tommy tippee ones are frankly huge, and I'm of a slightly more dainty persuasion myself. The silicon is also rock hard, so she just pushes it round her mouth and doesn't suck. Google suggested nuk bottles, anyone tried those?

Oh Eig sad, nothing is ever easy is it. Wish I could send you a magic solution through the ether, but the best I can do is a cyber hug.

SoYo Fri 10-May-13 08:01:57

Worsester I've tried every bloody bottle going and nothing. Madam is the same, just pushes it around & when she does suck she spits it back out or chokes. My last ditch attempt is going to be my NUK bottle with a latex teat & if she won't take that I think I'll just have to accept she's attached to me until she starts being weaned.

StormyBrid Fri 10-May-13 08:06:01

worsester I find the TT teats are really soft! Too soft, perhaps - she can push them round her mouth and not actually drink far too easily. How long have you been persisting with the ones you've got? Don't give up and change bottles after just a day or two, or you'll end up spending a fortune on bottles she won't use. DD tends to announce she's full after two ounces at the moment, we only get more in her by persisting. Just keep putting the bottle back in her mouth, and eventually she gives up and drinks a bit.

SoYo glad you're feeling better for your evening off. Makes a wonderful change, doesn't it?

I think we may be heading in the direction of constipation. Each poo seems a bit more solid than the last...

Stormy - I must have a rogue batch. The TT set I have is really firm... I was almost tempted to give them a good old chew myself to soften them down a bit but fortunately common sense got the better of me. Same boat as SoYo really, only got about 5ml down her, and of that roughly 4 went down her vest. Still, if at first you don't succeed.... and I refuse to be beaten by 11lb worth of baby, even if she is cute and has me wrapped round her little finger

StormyBrid Fri 10-May-13 08:57:02

Which flavour TT do you have? Ours is the natural or whatever that's supposedly just like a boob. Pretty similar to the Avent ones that are equally boob-like, except those ones really are solid.

Well, we were up at 7.15 and she tried to give up after two ounces. I persisted until she had three and a half down her. Quarter past eight, she was making "give me my dummy, I'm getting sleepy!" noises, so I gave her the rest of the bottle instead. Making the breakfast total five ounces over an hour. Hoping this will lead to a better nap, and won't bugger up her hunger for the next feed. If it all works out, then we shall simply discard the bit of the baby whisperer that says only spend fifteen minutes trying to get milk down them and then if they don't want more give up. And then have a good think about how to manage things with just six doses of gaviscon per day. It's already a bugger because she's on seven feeds, so gets no gaviscon at the 3am, and always has dried milk caked on her chin when I get her up in the morning.

StormyBrid Fri 10-May-13 08:59:53

Have just checked Tesco, it's the Closer to Nature TT bottles we have. My brother picked up a four pack of the five ounce bottles - they come with newborn teats as standard. Fortunately last week they had a two for one deal on two-packs of teats, so we got four of the size twos and four of the size threes for twelve quid. On the size twos now. But that's something else you could check - what teat size are you using?

WingDefence Fri 10-May-13 08:59:54

I think the teats may soften with use? We're only using the small bottle that comes with the pump at the moment and I think the teat feels slightly softer to the ones we haven't use yet in the box of big bottles.

After the 2:45-3 feed DD went till 6:20 (I ignored her noises at 5:30) and has been awake or feeding on/off since then. Six weeks today and after our check ups on Tuesday I will be attempting some form of routine.

Eig, how are you doing this morning?

pudtat Fri 10-May-13 09:40:41

Stormy, Gaviscon can cause constipation. We were advised to drop it for a few days when DS hadn't pooed for a week and one day. Were advised to give boiled cooled water between feeds, do clockwise tummy massage and lots of leg bicycling. HTH.

pudtat Fri 10-May-13 09:42:47

As for the reflux, it's only a prob if it bothers them, so if its not waking her after the 3am feed I wouldn't worry too much.

plonko Fri 10-May-13 09:50:05

Worsester We started off using Tommee Tippee until DS suddenly took a very strong disliking to the man. I chucked all ours in the bin and tried him with Mam teats (which fit boots and Avent bottles) which he much prefers. I think they're a lot softer.

Stormy very glad you have plans to get shitfaced. I think you deserve it!

Eig do what feels right. If that's pumping to relieve your sore boobs and sticking it in a bottle, or chucking it away and giving her formula then do it. It took awhile for DS to get used to formula (maybe four days or so?) but hes thriving now. any dirty nappies yet? I was still able to hand express a few drops up to 5 weeks after stopping BFing so please don't just stop or you'll be in a lot of pain (and wearing a v wet top).

SoYo hope you feel better after your wee break. Makes it all so much more bearable eh?

Well I'd best get up. I've stupidly put myself on a strict sugar free diet as I got weighed at the drs and nearly cried. Damn those yummy custard creams, cornettos and big mugs of horlicks, they were my only comfort when I went overdue. Am paying the price now with sugar withdrawal. And mother's making me traipse round a garden centre this afternoon. I can't effing wait.

StormyBrid Fri 10-May-13 09:54:24

Will work massage and legs into the routine then, and hope we don't get too clogged up in there.

Naptime is still not going amazingly - she woke up after fifty minutes. But just occasional whimpers rather than the full on wails of the last couple of days, so I guess they were in part hunger. Went to do a dummy return at 9.30 and got waylaid by a fucking enormous monster of a spider on the stairs. I was very brave, and managed to shift it with a pint glass, but really, this is what I have cats for! They're been bitching for their breakfast when there was a tasty morsel just waiting for them on the stairs!

WingDefence Fri 10-May-13 10:04:55

Having big tantrums with DS this morning and I've akleady shouted at him twice (v unusual in our house). sad

Stormy and other cat lovers, you must watch this brilliant 'sad cat' video grin

leniwhite Fri 10-May-13 11:06:45

Stormy - this morning I took DS into the living room to stop him waking OH at about 5.30am and almost trod on a huge spider... I'm hugely phobic but as I had to satisfy a hungry monkey I saw it go under the recycling and just sat with my feet up on the sofa hoping it would stay there so I could put a glass over it after feeding. But then when i poked the recycling with a mop afterwards it wasn't there, instead another spider came running at me so i chucked my milton solo steriliser over it, thinking problem solved (i thought it was the first spider). Went off happily to change DS and then put him back to bed, looked down next to the cot and saw monster spider number one on the floor! Jumped on the bed and grabbed a glass whilst DS was looking up at me quizzically, but it ran somewhere confused so I had to wake OH and make him dismantle the entire bedroom whilst I took DS and hid in the other room- he whacked it with a mop as it made a run for it. I hate killing them, but I was on the edge of a full scale nervous breakdown!

Now I'm worried there'll be more waiting to get me when OH isn't here! He's afraid of them too but he knows unless he mans up I will outright refuse to go in the affected room.

I need therapy.... shock

Hi Stormy - it's the starter pack, so smallest teats and 5oz bottles. I think her littlest-ship has copied plonko-baby and decided to turn her nose up for some unspecified reason. Wind direction? Alignment of the planets? Who knows. She was having none of it though, and when offered the (preferred) boob as a substitute clamped on with an air of such frantic concentration it was as if she was saying 'try that again mate and there will be trouble. BIG trouble. You think you've seen screaming before... well let me tell you you ain't seen nothing yet...'

Thanks for the tip though plonko, I'll look into Mam. DH has apparently just bought an avent bottle (these men, they go off piste without instruction...) so if that is rejected to I'll stick a Mam teat on it and see how she goes. Better I hope. Hysterical screaming and a late feed was not quite how I'd envisaged my early night would be.

Soften with use you say Wing - Perhaps I should chew a couple after all! Who would know... I don't have to tell now do I (although DH might question the teeth marks)

Garden centre Plonko???!! That would drive me to sugar too... and I don't even have a sweet tooth.

SoYo, let me know how you get on with the Nuk latex. At the risk of amassing an excessive collection I'm thinking of ordering some.

Leni - you do!!!!!!

My DH is scared of spiders too. And mice. And wasps. And bees.... As for hornets let's not even go there. Moving to the country has been a tad traumatic for him wink

I work on the basis spiders eat flies so are my friends. Try looking at it like that maybe.

pudtat Fri 10-May-13 11:42:48

Love the video Wing. We have a Maine Coon who is the biggest fraidy cat ever. She has only sniffed DS a couple of times, and is not at all sure. Think she suspects he's another tool in our arsenal of things which we will eventually use to try and kill her (you can't be too careful...)

We have a wedding to go to in June. What do I wear which will hide post baby lumpiness and enable me to feed while still being wedding-y? Argh, sartorial nightmare... Esp annoying as like lots of people, I have several items, usually bought in sales on the pretext that they'd be great for a summer wedding and none of them will do up allow me to bf. Sigh.

pudtat Fri 10-May-13 11:46:29

Worcs, true - but there are still too many legs and too many eyes and they move so damn quickly.... Shudder.

I have got better about them, and can handle small and medium sized ones now (unless they're the ones with the real big bodies - Wolf Spiders?) but the big Tegenaria Domestica (always be able to name your enemy) scare the crap out of me and my best effort is to get a glass over them. Ugh...

Rational, no. What I do, yes.

WingDefence Fri 10-May-13 11:51:14

pud I have a wedding reception (evening only) on 31st May and I have zero idea what to wear sad

DD has been asleep in my arms for two hours! DH took DS out to Sainsburys an hour ago as I was certain she'd wake up and want feeding but she's still zonked. I had swaddled her to transfer to the basket but couldn't do it in the end as she looks so adorable!

Ooh they back. Better go.

StormyBrid Fri 10-May-13 12:23:38

T. domestica is fine, pud. It's T. duellica I can't abide - the great big bastards. The one this morning was neither. It was really chunky and black and brown. Blended in with the carpet wonderfully. I am stupidly scared of spiders, but for years I've lived with people who are equally scared, and sooner or later someone has to man up and deal with the things. I won't let the man kill them though. What if their friends are watching and they come back later to take revenge?

worsester cats eat spiders. Cats eat flies. Cats eat everything. (Weaning's going to be fun!)

StormyBrid Fri 10-May-13 12:24:45

Oh God I should NOT have just google image searched "wolf spider". If anyone needs me I'll be gibbering in a corner.

Eigmum Fri 10-May-13 12:36:10

So, having taken nothing from the bottle this am, thrush that looks worse, a snotty nose and two completely dry nappies I gave in and fed her. so looks like I have to beat this thrush and get on with it. Going back to the doctors on monday. She will still take some bottle so I should be grateful. I umm'd and ah'd about what to do and while I won't have a lot of family support for my decision (other than dh and that's the main thing) I want a healthy child that is eating and having wet nappies and pooing so I am going to keep feeding her and keep offering the bottle twice a day. At the 10 am feed her choice- bottle first and if not breast, at the 10pm feed bottle or nothing so I and my nipples have a break. I will gave this regime a full week and see where we are then. My child, my decision. It may not be popular with my mum but I am nearly 40 for goodness sake and I am the one listening to the tears or even worse last night having the lethargic baby....

pudtat Fri 10-May-13 12:38:08

In denial about T Duellica and no, apparently one shouldn't google wolf spider...

pudtat Fri 10-May-13 12:40:48

Do what you want Eig, your choice, your boobs, your child, your sanity. Good luck.

StormyBrid Fri 10-May-13 12:55:58

Nothing like dry nappies to get you worrying, is there, Eig? Do what you feel is best, and bugger what your mum thinks.

Eigmum Fri 10-May-13 12:56:28

Thanks pudtat. She is literally sleeping like s baby since I fed her! And my swaddle is on its way!

WingDefence Fri 10-May-13 12:59:30

I echo pud. We're all here to support you Eig x

Eigmum Fri 10-May-13 12:59:33

stormy agree with both points. She's a lovely baby and just very different from my enormous always starving boy. Got to stop comparing and start enjoying, she gave me the most lovely smile this morning .... Made up for a night of worry!

Eigmum Fri 10-May-13 13:03:21

Thanks * wingd* I was dreaming last night I had to go to a breastfeeding support group and wear the baby in a sling (I would love to be good at that but so not me)! Just got to do it my way. Can't believe I am finding it so much harder the second time around..... Read a bit of the baby whispherer book last night, I think I am suffering from having had an angel baby last time! This one is more touchy!

Hey Eig, all babies are different and you do whatever is right for you, as by extension that's right for your baby too.

Me I appear to have morphed into a breast feeding baby wearing earth mother, which given it took me 40 years to actually have a baby, on the basis I'd hate the whole thing has surprised everyone... myself included.

Enjoy her smile I bet she is absolutely adorable.

My adorable little bundle has (from the smell of her) done something that requires my immediate attention. Super.

StormyBrid Fri 10-May-13 14:17:46

We appear to be having another day of nap fails. She's managed about two hours in total in her cot today. However, she's just fallen asleep in the bouncy chair in front of the formula one. Hmm. Right, I need to try raising the cot mattress (good thing I have ten pillows on my bed, can spare a few) and possibly a radio. Am determined to crack these naps. I want the time to put my feet up for a bit!

worsester in my experience, smell is no indicator. Possibly this is because I have produced a champion farter. Definitely takes after me, this one.

SoYo Fri 10-May-13 15:04:16

Another one for the sartorial challenge of a wedding! 25th march here, I went shopping 2 days ago & found nothing for less than £100. Not happy! I'll try again at the weekend. Plus it's bloody difficult trying clothes on with massive pram in tow!

pudtat Fri 10-May-13 16:19:32

Stormy, to raise the Moses basket I used some of the polystyrene blocks which we seem inundated with from purchases for small person. Stacked them to right height and held together with wooden BBQ skewers. Good cos feet slightly sink in so more stable.

However, have to swaddle the boy and wedge between two rolled up blankets as otherwise he sinks towards the bottom and did end up nearly under his blanket the first time he slept in it! Oops...

pudtat Fri 10-May-13 18:04:33

We're not the only ones with weddings coming up mumsnetty thread some useful links...?

ecofreckle Fri 10-May-13 18:25:57

gosh you lot are prolific! It's taken me 3 days to catch up with your news.

Eig - like everyone else it sounds like you have come to a good conclusion. You and DH are the people whose opinions matter. Sounds like a sensible way forward. How have you found (evil?) baby whisperer book?

Soyo - I have a very very sore right nipple too (maybe it's a sign we are in a secret club a la masons or whoever they are that bare their nipples ceremoniously..). It's very strange. Breast feeding counsellor has checked us out. GP has ruled out thrush. It doesn't hurt when I pump on the right nipple. It's the first 60 seconds or so of DD latching on. I literally cannot continue a conversation during that time. Dread RHS feeds. Bah.

Worcs/Soyo/Plonko (are you the mummies of bottle refusers?) - we have one of these too. She took the first bottle like a dream (made me cry to see her at the time "she doesn't need mummy any more" thoughts whizzing through my addled brain), but not since. We have done a lot of thinking through this one. The BF counsellor observed my "impressive let down" so we thought a bigger hole might help but no joy with size 2 TT ones either. Then tried variflow TT ones as they are supposed to be better for babies familiar with BF. No joy. Have just purchased very expensive medela bottle (which is actually designed for feeding expressed milk though) which looks super engineered; yet to try it though. We 3 went to a book launch last night (get us! stupid! had to leave two thirds of way through of course due to screaming baby in adult situation) and chatted to a lady who also had a bottle refuser and her top tip was do not cradle your baby when feeding a bottle. They associate that with boob feeds. Instead plonk them in theri bouncy chair and poke the bottle in their face. Funnily enough the essay that came with the medela bottle also suggests this too. We will try this. Tomorrow! It's Friday afterall so we're giving ourselves a break.

Wind/Pud - weddings eh? could always rely on pashmina to shroud baby in to make the feeds more subtle. Or you could just wear whatever you want and retreat for the feeds? I was thinking strappy empire line might work quite nicely but then you need the hefty bra straps concealed don't you? Hhmmm.... I'll mull it over. We have a wedding in october when DD will be 6 months but it's in Joshua Tree in California so I'm anticipating wearing next to nothing anyway to cope with the heat. Have bought DD a very sweet sleeveless cotton dress with matching pants but that's going a little off topic....

It's been so long since I was on here that I missed the jobs and sex chat. Skills wise I have very few but on environmental education, learning for sustainability and kids generally learnign outdoors I could probably bore you. Sex wise...ha ha ha....DD is a honeymoon baby and that's the last time there was any action. Like someone else I felt too crappy for first 4 months and then there was a baby right there sticking out and that messed with my karma and now I have the aftermath of 3rd degree tears, a suspected prolapse and an anal fissure so that's not an especially delightful combo either. Great start to married life ladies. My DH is very very very patient. Thank heavens.

Hope that you all have a good start to your weekend. The reason I am on here is because DH came back from work and took baby out for a walk. Peace currently reigns.

Eigmum Fri 10-May-13 20:05:34

eco lovely to hear from you. We are currently in the middle of witching hour here. Ds asleep in my bed for first time ever ( was jealous as dd gets to come in here to feed!) and dd refusing to go to bed. A honeymoon baby! How lovely, took my husband 5 years of marriage to persuade me kids was a good idea, still have days I am not convinced it was but too late now!

Eigmum Fri 10-May-13 20:08:45

I think the baby whisperer is good. As my ds is what she would call an angel baby I loosely followed giba's routine for him. I say loosely as I didn't push him through the night it anything. He dropped 3 am feed at 13 weeks and at 16 weeks one night we forgot the dream feed and he slept til 7 am so we just never did it again! Dd is clearly not do simple so doing the easy method.

Eigmum Fri 10-May-13 20:10:19

Can't type as have dd attached to boob. Never had this issue with SA, he was in his cot and asleep by 7 without fail having downed 8 ounces by this age!

Eigmum Fri 10-May-13 20:10:44

For SA read DS !

SoYo Fri 10-May-13 20:10:52

We're back at home, as much as the sleeping was initially a bit rubbish at my parents it was lovely seeing them for a week & seeing how much DD's face lit up when I took her down to them every morning. So lovely being back with DH though! I'm attempting the nighttime routine again tonight but not sure it'll be as successful with a venue change added in.

Have a good night everyone. I'm sure I'll be back soon!

ecofreckle Fri 10-May-13 20:29:24

Eig as soon as dh and dd returned from walk we got witching hour too. Rubbish! However, instead of three hours it was, true to the name, just an hour. Boob and cuddles finally made her cave and she is sleeping angelically. So hard to believe just an hour ago she was a writhing, red faced, ball of snot.
(evil) baby whisperer made me feel (actually I made myself feel) like a terrible mother a few weeks ago as she suggested everything we were experiencing was due to poor latching on. Even seemingly unrelated things. But I do like easy concept and we try that. Although on two hour day time cycle. Don't like the prescribed timetable set out for a four week old tho. That just makes you feel shite! Mine's six and half and nowhere near the 'standard'!! But we're pleased with our progress and there lies the moral of the story perhaps? Take book things with a pinch of salt, listen to eig/pud/stormy et al's real life real time wisdoms and trust your instincts :-)
Soym

ecofreckle Fri 10-May-13 20:31:38

Bloody phone! Was just changing soymilk to soyo and it decided to post early....
So, soyo, just wanted to say good luck with change of routine location. You may be pleasantly surprised?

ecofreckle Fri 10-May-13 20:39:27

I have finally got with the programme formatting! How advanced :-) too much time on my hands evidently. Am hiding from husband in bath. I shouted earlier about his bottle feeding technique. Bad woman. Sigh.

WingDefence Fri 10-May-13 21:26:58

Evening all!

Eco I'm sure I've read somewhere that with painful sides you can express on one side and feed from the other until everything's better which would save you feeding from your right?

Eig my double, my DS was also angel baby and put himself into a routine but DD is a bit more difficult! I've not looked at my BW book for a few weeks as that 4 week old schedule looked crazy. I may look again next week .

Have been upstairs with a swaddled DD feeding her for an hour. The first half I was nattering with my best mate, put DD down at 8:50 but she woke up after five mins so I've been feeding her again (I'm sure it's comfort?) and have just put her down again.

So the dilemma again of whether I bother to try to wake her at 10:30...

leniwhite Fri 10-May-13 21:49:45

Can't type. Too traumatised by spiders and afraid to walk with bare feet without all the lights on... confused

plonko Fri 10-May-13 22:14:14

Eig and Wing I think I may have been slightly blessed with an angel baby. Does that mean I'm in for more of a challenge next time? Apparently I refused to sleep until I turned two, so karma may be playing a ^ very^ long game.

Eig I hope the thrush clears up soon. Great that you've made a decision though, I believe that's half the battle.

Eco DS loves his his bottle but loathes Mr Tippee with a passion.interesting what you say about cuddling whilst bottle feeding- I feel that since I haven't boob fed for 6 weeks now it's a lovely way for us to bond but he does incline his head towards the more traditional milk dispensing area. We also like to feed upright as he's a bit hiccuppy/mildly refluxy from time to time, but I will experiment with feeding in the chair.

I have two weddings to attend this summer and am considering wearing a bin liner. One has a blanket ban on kids so I can even parade DS as a excuse for my saggy belly. The other is on my birthday so I'm just going to make a beeline for the Chardonnay.

Oh and RE creepy crawlies- DPs brother is a zoologist and enjoys breeding mental animals to sell as pets. So far I've lived with a cat, two snakes, a preying mantis (called Boris), a crested gecko and a colony of singing crickets that escaped whilst I attempted to feed the goddamn gecko. Needless to say we now just have a cat. And a baby.

WingDefence Fri 10-May-13 22:20:59

Plonko - I'm probably doing DD a disservice actually. She's not a bad baby but I just remember DS being brilliant - well, apart from not taking to BFing at all!

I think Eco was saying use the upright position when you're trying to bottle feed and are still BFing so they associate upright feeding with a different type of delivery method? One if the things I absolutely loved about ff was the fact that DS would stare directly up into my eyes and we really could bond. Whereas with BFing DD looks at me out of the corner of her eye sometimes but generally is staring at my armpit! (Which is one of the reasons it does annoy me when people talking about how BFing is better for bonding - I adored that eye contact.)

Not sure what to do in ten mins about DD. Probably won't wake her and will have to deal with the consequences confused

plonko Fri 10-May-13 22:35:21

Wing - no I'm sure your DD is just lovely, full of vulnerable newborn snuffle squishiness. But after a bottle guzzler it must be something of a shock to get the total opposite in a second baby.

I miss the contact if BFing and that specific connection but you're so right about eye contact. I love that DP can share that bond with us. It makes me so soppy, but then I have been known to cry at my own baby cos he's just so bloody lovely.

What would happen if you didn't wake her?

SoYo Fri 10-May-13 22:44:07

Bedtime failed. Got her down after over an hour & started screaming 10mins later. We were just starting dinner so brought her downstairs where she gurgled happily for 10mins while I shoved food down then snag her to sleep. She snoozed for 20mons then woke up screaming so we're trying family bedtime now. Hope she goes down because I'm shattered! Hope yours is better behaved than mine Wing. Whenever the wake vs don't question comes to me I always think don't in case tonight's the night hell sleep through....I'm always disappointed!

WingDefence Fri 10-May-13 22:47:43

Well I'm not sure what will happen given she has gone from 9:30-4:30 in the past but I expect she'll wake up earlier than normal eg 12-1 (like last night which was an arse) as opposed to anything between 2 and 5!

Too late now..!

Eig, I forgot to say that my DS has also been moving himself into our bed at night for the last few weeks (but not for the last few nights thank goodness) because he sees DD in our room. It's an effect having her has had on him that I completely didn't foresee - he asks every few days. How long it is until she goes into her own room. I can completely understand it: he must think he's being left out sad

Right, off to bed. Pleeeease stay asleep for a decent length of time DD!

WingDefence Fri 10-May-13 22:49:02

Oh no SoYo! Good luck for the rest of the night...

leniwhite Sat 11-May-13 01:07:31

Oh, weddings; i just bought a 'butterfly' BFing cover that ties on the shoulder and on one side of the waist - could be a more attractive option?

Made by Faye and Lou

WingDefence Sat 11-May-13 01:11:49

Right, remind me tomorrow to wake DD when I ask... she stated stirring at 12:30 so I rocked the Moses basket a bit when she did until she finally started crying at 1:05. I've changed her and she's now feeding. Really this isn't working for me as we seem to have gone backwards hmm

ecofreckle Sat 11-May-13 01:42:18

Wing glad you also agree bw four week schedule looks a tad over optimistic. And thanks for express on right tip. I'm guessing as she won't take from bottle I'd just freeze right boob milk and use just left with her for a few days?
Plonko I see what you mean about feeding in a chair and the lack of bond. I guess if every feed is from bottle that'd be a big issue. Not thought about that. If we aim for one feed per day on bottle I guess it's more palatable as an idea. It'd feel weird though I think just sticking out at them.
Sorry a few others of you seem to be having sub optimal nights. Same here. Something in the water perhaps? Funny how it's two steps forward one step back sometimes with this baby lark.
Stormy, was it you who found black out blind success? We are trying tonight for first time. Hoping for weekend lie in as a result! Positive thinking!

SoYo Sat 11-May-13 02:39:05

And we're up. Stirring for past 45mins. Tried to ignore her in the vain hope she'd go bak to sleep it instead just stretched out how long we were both awake before feeding.

Wing it's just so frustrating going backwards isn't it? A few weeks. Ago we were going 4-5hrs & now it's 3 max. Can't see that there's anything I can do about it either.

StormyBrid Sat 11-May-13 03:18:19

Can I just say, I really bloody hate insomnia? DD had her dream feed at 1am, not woken yet for the 3am which I'm on duty for, I know full well I'll wake up when she cries for it, yet I can't sleep. Argh!

Eigmum Sat 11-May-13 03:30:47

stormy having same issue here. Dd settled at 8.15, I woke her for dream feed at 10.30 took 4 ounces of formula (her record!) she woke at 2 am I bf and she was asleep by 2.30 but now I can't sleep. wingd my double, you should have gone with the wake option! I think she woke early as still no poo and with a day of formula on Thursday she telly needs too... Lots of straining and huge tummy, praying poo comes soon.....

Eigmum Sat 11-May-13 03:38:10

Ps http://bebeparfait.com/limoncello-cover.asp

I have this breastfeeding cover and it worked well at the wedding I went too. I know the lady who makes them and they are fab! Very discreet and don't smother baby as they have a firm rim at the top.

pudtat Sat 11-May-13 04:10:46

I bought various BW books on kindle and worked my way through sleep one then bf one before starting secrets of,,, agree that schedule looks a little odd until reading the last one which suddenly actually talks about bf babies being on a 2-2,5hr schedule in the day which makes more sense. I can't get on with her feed from one side only rule. I am careful to make sure he finishes a side but usually have to offer the second and sometimes even top up of course, though getting less.

Quite a good night here. We had another bm last night -copious quantities of something which looked like peanut butter and just kept coming - and I think it left him comfier than he has been for a few days tummy wise. Went down about 8.15 and only woke up about 20mins ago. This was a rhythm we'd got into but last few nights have been 3 night feeds. And yesterday my two attempts to nap both failed (bloody phone).

My prob re just going for pashmina type solution for wedding is my standard posh dress is a fitted shift type with high ish neckline. Offers no access without literally taking top half off! This is the problem with having done one of these image consultant sessions where they point out what suits you, and living with results for some years...

Was it Leni asking about bf tops a while back? Mostly I have just invested in things which button, or x over styles you can pull down both worn over a stretchy vest you can pull down. My fav specialist bf top which is great for public feeding is this one from verboudet which I find discrete and easy. Also like their nursing bras as pretty and underwired again yey yet practical. Have one vest with those peep hole cut outs - mental! The holes are obv not in the right place and neither LO nor I can be that precise. Avoid.

Hi Eco, nice to see you again and glad all going well. We get on we'll with the Medela bottles, so fx for you as they are pricey! Fwiw, we do use them with formula as well as EBM, you just have to make sure the teeny tiny holes don't become blocked then they don't work and LO will get frustrated tugging away for no reward.

WingDefence Sat 11-May-13 04:47:51

Up again so 3.5 hours sleep which is better than nothing (!) but considering on Wed she went till this time without a 12-1ish feed is a bit frustrating.

I've seen breastfeeding covers in TK Maxx but they just look like massive aprons to me! They also seem like, with their bright patterns and general size, they would actually drawn everyone's attention to the fact you're nursing whereas a big pashmina type scarf (which is what I use) seems more natural? One definite advantage they do have is that rigid edge though - I always worry that Dd is overheating under a scarf but the ones I use are pretty thin and delicate so I think she's fine.

Hope those of you with insomnia are asleep...

ecofreckle Sat 11-May-13 04:54:18

Pud thanks for sharing that bf top link. I love it. Clever design. Not to porn star peep hole. And flattering over a not flat yet tummy. An all rounder. I'm going to get one we'll become clones on this thread!
2.5 hour schedule overnight tonight here. Rubbish.

ecofreckle Sat 11-May-13 05:00:14

Too not to. I may have baby brain but am not totally illiterate

SoYo Sat 11-May-13 05:02:10

Yep Eco, 2hrs since last feed here which is just shit & she seems very awake plus I've got a really sore throat. Not impressed.

I'm also going to get one of those BF tops, much nicer than most, thanks for the link Pud, I'm also thinking about one of their bras as I'm craving some underwiring and a nice shape.

pudtat Sat 11-May-13 07:28:31

Wow! Glad link was helpful, promise I don't work for them!

Pretty good night here overall, up just before 7 again. Hope he can keep it up.

pudtat Sat 11-May-13 07:33:28

And Eco you're so right about the peephole thing feeling quite porn star which just seems SO wrong to me right now...

SoYo, I felt much better for a nice bra - silly isn't it, but helped me start trying to look nice again. Though yes, things to hide a saggy belly are still appreciated.

Oh, I like the website. Can I be a clone too? My current look is t shirt hauled up exposing attractivehmm midriff, and milk stained stretchy bra effort from Boots. Actually bra is too flattering a word for it. Jug holder is probably more accurate. If her littlest-ship is going to keep up the bottle rejection lark I probably ought to smarten my look up before I forget how to, and sink into a self pitying mire of hairy legs and throw up stains.

Speaking of bottles, a teeny tiny window of hope may have opened up. 20 mls were taken... without any real upset... but the effort was obviously too much for her as then she fell asleep hmm. I think I may have discovered one of the problems. DH. No really. Tempting though it is to blame the man for everything from my greying hair to hammer toes, in this case I may be justified. Having previously tried ever so hard not to be a hovercraft mum and criticise his every move, I've kept well back during bottle fails. This time I interfered.... and what do I find... a rather heavy handed approach resulting in the teat half gagging her. No wonder she's developed an aversion. So I half fed her myself before cunningly sliding her from me onto the bottle and managed to trick her into downing over a tablespoon. Wayhey... a whole tablespoon!! Anything is better than nothing though... and for those in a similarly boob-focussed dead-end, the successful bottle type was good old Dr Brown.

PS I had never ever heard of the baby whisperer before and I am restraining myself from googling, as I suspect I will just end up feeling inadequate. DD it would appear has a life plan all of her own. This unfortunately involves a random routine, but good growth, an active interest in her surroundings, lots of looking around, grabbing at things, playing and a big smile with lots of laughs. I'm kind of happy with that. I think one of the advantages of being a geriatric mum is you just don't care what other people say, or do, or say you should do, and have had many many years of perfecting the art of outward smiling and thanking people, and inwardly saying 'oh do fuck off' and ignoring them.

That said a perfect baby that napped sensibly would be nice grin

Eigmum Sat 11-May-13 14:00:22

worsester v funny!

So we have had no poo here since Tuesday. Lots for straining and poo faces, lots of farting but no actual poo.... The good news is the doctor says the thrush is nearly gone, the bad news is no poo. So having felt her bowel and listened to her tummy the view was no blockage so he suggested changing formula and bf more. Well give she takes 4 to 7 ounces max of formula a day and has done since week 7 I don't think it's that as aptimal is one of the mildest anyway. Have been trying to bf more but as I cut it down a bit I then have to work on getting my supply up with is exhausting, although dd is more than up to the task! Pray there is a poo here today, we have benin cycling legs, bum massaging, chest deep warm baths but nothing ....

Eigmum Sat 11-May-13 14:02:17

The bad news for dd is if no poo by Monday morning then "intervention" whatever that may be will occur!

StormyBrid Sat 11-May-13 14:47:14

Fingers crossed for a poonami, Eig!

We're debating going back to the doctor's. Gaviscon has just about eliminated the fussiness, but nowadays at the point at which fussiness used to occur, she just gives up and doesn't want any more. So we're wondering if the issue is a slow emptying stomach. Only wanting two ounces for breakfast, when the last feed was four hours ago, doesn't sound quite right, does it?

leniwhite Sat 11-May-13 15:22:27

Pud that's the exact one I was looking at grin and I have 40% off because my last order took 2 months to arrive! I did wonder how the peephole ones work, surely nipples aren't all in exactly the same place...

Fussy time here. DS had an early ish sleep but wanted a feed at 1am, over an hour earlier than normal. Back to the pounding fists and kicking on the boob again so taking ages to fill him up. On the plus side my milk is back to a decent supply and he's had no formula for almost two days! I'm taking fenugreek to ramp up production, no idea if it's working but worth a try I guess. Hoping to start building up frozen supplies soon, at the moment it takes me several expression sessions to get a full 5oz feed because the pump just doesn't suck like a baby does.

Stupid question - what are those discs that come with bottles for?

StormyBrid Sat 11-May-13 15:38:05

leni they fit in the ring, instead of the teat, when you're shaking the bottle to mix the formula. Presumably helps stop getting grains of formula stuck in the teat before you even get started? (It took me seven weeks to figure that out though, so don't feel too stupid!)

leniwhite Sat 11-May-13 16:07:16

Ah ok, makes sense. Took me about a month to realise the Dr Browns air minimiser bit inside dismantled... I'd been sterilising it as one piece the whole time confused

StormyBrid Sat 11-May-13 16:57:35

Eig I think we have your poo. Three great big ones in an hour...

Eigmum Sat 11-May-13 17:08:56

stormy babies are secretly communicating with each other! Ok look away now if you are eating! In a desperate attempt to have a poo, and being advised not to add sugar to bottle or glyercin suppodiatores as sugar will add to thrush problem, it being 5 days now I followed dr sears advice. Big hot bath, push on legs or if that doesn't work get in bath with them ( can you see where this is going) and hold them back to you legs in toilet position .... And hey presto, full scale tidal wave poonami over self and mummy, required mummy and baby shower while dh sorted bath!! She is now so relaxed she fell asleep post poo! Omg the things we are prepared to do.

plonko Sat 11-May-13 17:23:09

Eig well done. I bet you were very proud grin.

I just braved town on a Saturday completely on my own and it was bliss! Nothing like a good bit of shopping without mister or the young un getting in my way.

On the other hand we're starting to get a bit of bottle fussiness. No idea what's causing it. Switched to faster teats, tried various feeding positions, heating up bottles when they've cooled down... And halfway through he'll start pulling away and grizzling. He gets burped halfway through regardless, but often refuses to go back to the bottle.

I'm completely in awe that DS is 9 weeks and 10 minutes old now and already want another

WingDefence Sat 11-May-13 17:50:45

Wow plonko - you'd better start The Sex then if you want another one already!

Had a lovely day at a friend's house with her DH and two children whose DS and DD are a year older than our two. She's also a MNer <looks around nervously> It was good to chat through a few things with her eg routines when ebf etc.

Too much to type here though with one thumb! DD was as good as gold though smile

Eig I'm impressed with the poonami!

pudtat Sat 11-May-13 18:05:09

Gives a new meaning to the phrase baby shower!grin

plonko Sat 11-May-13 19:21:01

Ooh lord no Wing, we're aiming for a gap of at least 3 years, time to enjoy the first baby before (intentionally) making more. I never imagined my own baby could make me broody, but he's just so bloody gorgeous.

Must be lovely having friends who also have kids. So far only one if my friends does. On the other hand when everyone else decides to settle down ill be an old hand at this family lark!

leniwhite Sat 11-May-13 19:39:49

Poos in the bath, everyone ends up with a story eventually!

DS is driving me nuts today, screaming at the boob and punching/kicking me more than ever - winding hasn't worked, but i heard this can happen at 6 weeks shock feeding schedule has all but disintegrated so hoping tomorrow's planned trip to the park including first tube ride will be somehow calming?!

leniwhite Sat 11-May-13 19:49:21

Btw has anyone else had a period 5 weeks after giving birth even though BFing?

Yes, me Leni confused

ecofreckle Sat 11-May-13 20:14:00

Much as I want to come on here and read how everyone's nipples are perky and happy, babies are gurgling contentedly on their play mats, sleeping through the night and eating gallons it is kind of reassuring to hear that everyone else in baby land is going through same stuff and wondering same things with regards possible answers.
Bottle fussiness (understatement) and changing poo habits here too.
Anyhow, had nice picnic in bluebell woods today with another hypno birthing couple and their baby. Three al fresco feeds? Check! They were the hoody hoiked up, belly out, not very sophisticated type but baby didn't care. The national trust crowd looked a bit stunned though.
Anyone still going to watch voice now blind auditions over? Or have I admitted to already?
Dd in bed, I'm in bath, dh making risotto, going to open my first bottle of wine soon :-) I'll probably fall asleep on sofa as per....

WingDefence Sat 11-May-13 20:18:26

Yes leni it could be the dreaded six week growth spurt. Apparently if you can get through six weeks BFing then it's a lot better afterwards. DD has also discovered muscles in her little arms so I'm getting lots of pushing and pummelling of the boobs but no kicking yet, although if her feet are next to the sofa arm, she'll push herself off it. I'd forgotten how much they can do at six weeks.

The bottles are getting harder to give here. I think it might be though because she's knackered and in the witching hour anyway but taking advice from above ^^ I tried to give it to her when ash was out of the room with lots of eye contact and singing to her and it was better. BT the whole point is for others to be able to feed her so I don't want to be the one bottle feeding her too!

It was hard trying to work out where the teat goes in her mouth too. Just the end, held in her lips or with as wide a mouth as she takes the nipple? I don't remember being at all confused with DS!

WingDefence Sat 11-May-13 20:19:02

ash = DH

plonko Sat 11-May-13 20:56:10

Yeah Eco it's so reassur g t

leniwhite Sat 11-May-13 20:58:12

Worsester glad it's normal then?! I thought maybe the levonelle was to blame...
Wing my DS sucks bottles pretty much the same as boobs, lips right down almost to the base of the teat.

Eco - i was asked to go on The Voice this series but said no!

plonko Sat 11-May-13 21:00:10

Ahem. Bastard phone.

It's reassuring to come on here and know we're all experiencing similar problems. Makes me that we're 100% normal.

Wing we just offer the end of the teat. DS sucks as much into his mouth as he needs to. At least he does when he's behaving.

Am now a bit worried that I've not yet had a period, and that we've been using the fucking stupid withdrawal method. Method my arse! I know I said I wanted another but...but.... I stopped BFing nearly 7 weeks ago!! Where the hell is it? Having a silent panic in the bath, really don't want to alert DP!

plonko Sat 11-May-13 21:05:09

Also Leni :

1. If all four judges turned round, who would you pick?
2. Can you go on it next year so we can put a face to the name/experience your talent? Pleeeeease?

WingDefence Sat 11-May-13 21:30:15

Leni, you were asked to go on the Voice?! Wow! Does that mean it's all a bloody fix?

Plonko, where's SoYo when you need her grin

I've just realised that that sentence I wrote in my post could have been lifted from a porn story?! shock I think that's where it's proving slightly difficult in that I'm not sure DD knows how to drink from the bottle but that's the point of keeping trying her with it, isn't it? DH is out at the footy again tomorrow afternoon/night (well, I couldn't not let him go to Fergie's last match and see the trophy presentation) so it'll be down to me to try to give it to her again. I'll be asking for luck!

It took me half hour of swaddled feeding earlier and she went down at 9ish. I am determined to wake her for a feed at 10:30 tonight!

pudtat Sat 11-May-13 22:03:40

Gosh, impressed Leni!

Having a panicky day today. Think it's because DH not been around much lately and I don't trust his 'don't worries' as he doesn't really know what normal looks like at the moment and I think it's changed... Worried my supply is dropping again now I'm off the Domperidone and that having got him almost exclusively bfing, he is now not getting enough and even possibly going a bit jaundiced again as a result. I know I could phone docs or health visitors, but worried I am either A - paranoid or B- not paranoid. Does that make any sense? No, not really... I know. Jabs on tues so will talk to docs then.

In the meantime I seem to have accidentally put him to bed early tonight, what was supposed to be a pre bath nap turned into the most angelic deep sleep which I didn't like to disturb. So now trying to pump and do dream feed as otherwise he'll be too long without or waking up at stupid times. Wish me luck...

WingDefence Sat 11-May-13 22:14:40

Good luck pud! You could well be paranoid but always best to get these things checked out? Don't forget, pumped amounts are no real indication of amounts actually being produced...

I heard DD stirring over the monitor at 10 and I reckoned it's be easier to wake her if she's in a period of lighter sleep as opposed to trying to wake her at 10:30 regardless so I've just changed and reswaddled her and am now giving her (hopefully) a last feed for a few hours. She's definitely falling asleep on me again but at least she's had 7 mins so far.

Hope you all have good nights...

vjhist85 Sat 11-May-13 22:18:32

Hi ladies. I feel a bit sheepish joining this so late- I've been lurking since shortly after my DD was born 7/3/2013, 37+2, 6lb1oz, but for some reason I never joined in and then it got too late iykwim... Anyway, wanted to say you lot have kept me going! It's so nice knowing others are going through the same thing, especially bloody bfing which still makes me grumpy 9 weeks in! 3am wouldn't be the same, so I hope you don't mind me butting in now? smile

Eigmum Sat 11-May-13 22:23:34

leni no nothing here, was expecting something now I am giving a bit of formula but so far nothing. My doctor did say something though that in about 80 per cent of women who bf no periods, so that would be 20 per cent who have some?

zigwig Sat 11-May-13 22:27:17

Re periods. I've only just begun one now because I've started back up on the pill and it's 12 weeks so don't stress too much yet plonko. There was no sign of them before that so I think they begin again at different times for different people.

same as plonko here with the bottle teat. I put it near his lips and he sucks it in himself. It all goes in like a latch on the boob.

THings here are slowly getting better. LO is on a stupid amount of drugs but is much happier. Now he's hit 12 weeks I'm praying it will gradually start to get better as his body gears up for weaning. uh oh speak of the waking baby, bottle time.

Eigmum Sat 11-May-13 22:30:43

vjhist85 welcome! I agree this group has kept me sane too... You me plonko and stormy all have babies v close in age! wingd after failed naps all day we had a spectacular failed bedtime but she went down at 9.30. Hubbie going to dream feed at 11 anyway ...

SoYo Sat 11-May-13 22:52:01

Plonko, ridiculously irregular is norm for up to 6 months even if you had never breastfed. However, you can get pregnant from day 21 (rare but I've definitely seen it) & the withdrawal method isn't very effective! If I were you I'd pee on a stick just to put my mind at rest. So unlikely but best be sure! Sorry to not be more reassuring!

Wing we got her down to bed ok at 8.30 but at 9 she woke screaming the place down & it took bloody ages to settle her. She's now asleep on my chest & I can feel the drool dribbling down into my bra....lovely!

I'm going for dinner with friends on Wednesday (yay) & the restaurants at the bottom of my road so was planning to feed Miss Madam then try to leave her for a couple of hours but just realised DH is on nights. Looks like she'll be joining the party!

This is definitely a good thread for keeping sanity, as much as we all wish ours was the perfect baby, it's good to know nobody has one so we're all in it together! grin

Catching up on some Grey's before bed while Madam snoozes. At least all is quiet while the milk supplies get chance to regenerate!

plonko Sat 11-May-13 23:03:50

Thanks for the advice SoYo, looks like ill be off to the chemist on Monday then. I've told DP so panic shared. Good luck with your meal, I hope dd behaves for you.

Zig did you start the pill to kick start things? I've got a prescription but been advised to wait until the first day of my period. You'd have thought after taking them for 8 years I'd have it sussed.

pud I'm of the opinion that a mothers instinct is best not ignored. You know your baby best. Hope all is well but if it means going back on the meds to fix it at least you know it works.

vjhist85 hello! Can I offer you a glass of wine ?

vjhist85 Sat 11-May-13 23:18:54

Thanks for the warm welcome! plonko I'd love a glass or 5, thanks. Was meant to be going out tonight (second time since dd was born) but she had a major meltdown, fairly unusual for her so couldn't bring myself to leave...

Very quick intro to us then I must go to sleep as she's sparko! 2 years ttc due to PCOS, then got BFP the month I was supposed to be starting clomid! Lovely 5 hr sneeze birth, managed 30 mins in the pool-bliss, 2 pushes and there she was... Great until the retained placenta, heavy blood loss and brutal hour long d&c with epidural! Since then our trials and tribulations have been similar to yours, feeding comes and goes and tends to regress just as I feel I've got the hang of things, DH is lovely but useless, away with work a lot, and acts like a glorified babysitter when he's here. Sleep at night is pretty good and we've just dropped the dream feed (tried to get her to drop 3am but she was having none of it, woke up at 3am whether she fed at 10 or not!) and we're very slowly getting the hang if daytime napping but only using techniques that would definitely be frowned upon!

Anyway, bedtime for me, see you all at 3am!

leniwhite Sat 11-May-13 23:44:52

Welcome VJ grin wow, are you all healed after your birth experience?

Re The Voice - yes it's basically all a fix! They saw me on another TV show and 'scouted' me. Doing a show like that would ruin my career, anyone worth their salt who's worked hard playing the toilet venues and spending every last hard earned penny on music as well as working full time will tell you that winning a show like that is more a death sentence than a prize shock unless you want to be a puppet that is... (I know, controversial eh?!).

So I needn't have bothered with the levonelle then! Damn. I read a few stories of ladies falling pg 4 weeks after birth and panicked confused frankly it would be a miracle anyway but everyone keeps saying that after you do it once, the body suddenly figures it out and a natural conception is much more likely.

Soyo do you think this heavy bleed is the Levonelle perhaps?

My hormones are anything but normal so it doesn't surprise me I'm in the 20% who get periods whilst BFing. Shame periods don't mean eggs really or I'd be very fertile!

I wish there was a way to keep some eggs now if there are any, without needing surgery and £7K... DS is so gorgeous and it's hard always thinking each milestone is the first and last I'll get to experience. Hard work as it is I'd do it again in a heartbeat!

leniwhite Sun 12-May-13 02:59:52

On third feed of the night already - Ewan the sheep has gone all distorted so it's like trying to sleep through Bladerunner.
Tiiiiiired.... DS can shift himself around the cot so putting him feet to end seems useless, much more physically able than I was!

Eigmum Sun 12-May-13 03:20:53

Yes, up for 3am feed and she is back in cot. Fingers crossed we get to at least 6 am tomorrow morning.....

pudtat Sun 12-May-13 03:37:08

Dream feed total failure - tried to actually do a bottle feed but he wouldn't suckle enough (with the Medela bottles he does have to suck) so ended up waking him and having the biggest feed ever!

Now up again (!) I genuinely think he wakes more often when DH is in with us and he's been a nightmare to sleep next to tonight even for me as tossing and turning makes bed creak.

pudtat Sun 12-May-13 03:42:49

Another TV show eh... <detective face> anything still available online? Who knew we had a schleb in our virtual midst.

Poor Ewan, he's becoming part of an android sleep cycle is he? Always loved the book title... Right, think little man might be losing focus in favour of gong sleepy...

ecofreckle Sun 12-May-13 04:01:52

Leni I think we may be in middle of six week growth spurt too. Every two hours during day and up twice so far tonight. Dd just very 'thrashy' during her feed and my right boob feels violated!
Vjh welcome! Is dd your first? Envious of sneeze birth! It is a tiring old game isn't it? And you're further on than me.
Wing interesting that you are giving the bottle. And that you had some success. Books suggest banishing mummy many rooms away. I've not tried offering bottle myself. Maybe that's worth a go. I'd like to.
Pud each time I've asked doc or hv things (and started with 'I'm probably being cautious but can you tell me if...' they have been very reassuring and have said with young babies they'd much rather be consulted about our concerns. Yes because babies are delicate but also because they don't want new mums worrying. So I'd say just get things checked out.
I am so tired I'm going to check out now and allow my eyelids to close. May we all now sleep through til at least eight!

WingDefence Sun 12-May-13 04:18:29

Morning all and welcome vj! (Anyone else keep forgetting this is all public?! blush

Sorry to hear some of you are having rubbish nights. Thankfully out dream feed worked and although I bloomin woke up at 1:30, 2 something and 3 something, DD went through till 4 smile But even then I got her up when she was just straining in her swaddle and making noises - DH and I discussed putting her in her own room earlier than we did with DS (12 weeks) because I'm possibly getting her up too early confused

And v interesting Leni with the insider knowledge!

Plonko will we have a live POAS tomorrow?! grin

leniwhite Sun 12-May-13 05:17:11

Argh no sleep for me confused supposed to be braving the tube fir the first time and BFing in public for the first time tomorrow - please universe let DS sleep!! No poo tonight, just a green tinged skid mark, lovely.

TV show was a doc on the BBC so not remotely schleby... Probably the most exciting thing I've done was live Sky News! Had my face airbrushed and seriously wish I could do that at home, makes one look flawless winkAlmost like a shop dummy in fact. A bit odd now I think about it...

Urgh, my brain hurts.

vjhist85 Sun 12-May-13 07:15:28

Re: forgetting this is public, that's kind of why I joined in! Was starting to feel more and more voyeuristic and decided I either needed to stop being so nosy or become a part of it!

Ok night here- up at 3.20, fairly quick feed and quick to settle but then awake at 5! Tried to get her back to sleep (all the while DH was out cold) eventually brought her into bed with us, and DH said "you shouldn't let her get used to getting into our bed" at which point I pointed out he was welcome to try to settle her himself but if he was determined to leave it all to me then he'd have to deal with my decisions! ...and breathe...

Anyone got anything nice planned for today?

ecofreckle Sun 12-May-13 07:53:27

Hi vj. Having just done a feed I've come back to bed and dd/dh are going to hang out on the sofa for a bit. It's so grey here in the east it doesn't feel too naughty coming back to bed. We have friends from London coming to meet dd later and there's a massive pile of nappies that need washing. So that's my something nice for today; how about you? What's on the cards?

WingDefence Sun 12-May-13 07:53:47

Vj DD woke up too much after her 4 feed so I didn't get her back down till 5:20 after more feeding and multiple reswaddlings. Then she woke at 6:30 so I told asked DH to bring her into our bed and she slept then on him till half 7 which gave me time to doze. He knows better than to refuse me that grin

Leni good luck with the tube! The hardest part will be the steps unless you'll be using a sling/carrier?

Eigmum Sun 12-May-13 07:58:17

Yeah, dd slept til 7.30 and thrush is nearly gone for her, the feeding is fine for me now too ... Could it be I am not having to push the cart up the steep hill with only my nose! Yes I worried about public too and but figured what the hell! This thread is keeping me sane. If we want , later on, we can get whoever started a thread to ask mumsnet to delete it if we are ever sleeping enough to care!

vjhist85 Sun 12-May-13 08:13:15

Well despite forecast it's looking like a beautiful day here so think we'll spend the day chilling out in the garden. Anyone else's LO at their most cheerful first thing? She seems to get gradually grumpier as the day goes by which makes me think she's obviously not napping for long enough during the day.

StormyBrid Sun 12-May-13 08:17:28

Morning all, and welcome Vj.

We had one of those afternoons that reduces me to tears yesterday. 4pm feed, she only took an ounce, and that was with plenty of fussing. Did the same thing at 7pm. Managed to get another three in her when she was half asleep at quarter to eight. Worrying me ridiculously though. Got almost four ounces down her at breakfast, but that was a split feed at 7 and 7.45, because on the first attempt she decided she'd had enough after two and a half. Sigh.

Our middle of the night feed seems to be creeping later and later. Had a couple of 4ams recently, and nothing earlier than 3am in almost a fortnight. Unfortunately, forgetting the dream feed until 1am (because she was fast asleep and the man forgot) didn't seem to affect things much and she still woke at 4. Positive thoughts: she won't need milk in the night when she's weaned! And we should be counting our blessings really, as she sleeps a good seven or eight hours before wanting milk every night.

Who was it commiserating with me a while back about the inability of nappies to last the night? Whoever it was, try Pampers baby-dry, they're working a treat for us at the moment. And you can buy them on amazon with free postage, which is handy if you're a lazy arse like me. Fifteen quid for 156 of the things!

Nothing much planned for today (except good feeds and good naps, but no one's told DD that). Exciting week ahead though, got my birthday on Tuesday, and the man's father visiting at the end of the week. Really hoping he's on his best behaviour when he meets my dad, or it could get a bit shouty...

Eigmum Sun 12-May-13 08:28:00

Nothing exciting today but bubbie and I are off to st James' palace for dinner with prince Charles tomorrow night. My first child free night out, infect my first night out of the house in nearly 10 weeks .....

Eigmum Sun 12-May-13 08:29:16

Hubbie, no idea who bubbie is, clearly baby not invited!

SoYo Sun 12-May-13 08:56:48

Welcome VJ, my DD is also most cheerful first thing, all big smiles and giggles, I think it's to stop me throttling her after a night!

Had a sore throat yesterday & now have full blown stinking cold & feel like shit. Urgh.

Bad night here, she woke for feeds at 11, 2, 3.30, 5 and 7.30 and is now going downstairs for some daddy time while I nap.

Unfortunately my exciting job for the day is to try to start so sort the house out a bit because its filthy and a tip (I'm lying here looking at the sun on our mirror showing all the dust) and cooking a roast dinner (something I usually quite like but DD has a habit of throwing off the timings)!

SoYo Sun 12-May-13 08:57:57

Oh and Leni the heavy bleed is very likely to be partly due to the levonelle, it can cause a prolonged bleed too. The first period after a baby is usually very heavy though so probably a bit of both.

StormyBrid Sun 12-May-13 09:06:59

SoYo very heavy is putting it mildly! My first post birth period involved going through a super tampon in an hour and a half, consistently, for over a week.

We're on the cusp of the naptime danger zone. Let's see how this one goes...

ecofreckle Sun 12-May-13 10:10:13

Eig hang on! Did you say you're off to dinner with prince Charles?! Round these parts that's big news but you threw it in your post like it's a regular occurrence!! More detail please!

Eigmum Sun 12-May-13 10:12:41

stormy As we know given the nightmare I am having I am not really placed to give advice but I can't help myself as it might help. Feel free to ignore me. Night nanny said to me that as little one isn't taking big feeds from the bottle Not to drop any night feeds til she is bigger ( over 12/13 pounds) and to always wake by 11pm latest then 3.30am latest so she feeds well at 7 am ish. It's painful as its so tempting to want them to sleep long stretches but if you really feel she hadn't taken enough in the day this is the way to get more food in. It also helps establish a 7 am ish get up time rather than be random. Feel free to tell me to butt out though and completely understand this may not work for every baby.

Eigmum Sun 12-May-13 10:30:10

Yes! It's a princes trust dinner for education leaders and in my spare time (what was that again) I am a governor at one of the London academies that has significantly turned around pupil achievement! It's black tie, very excited! We have received a royal protocol etc! Even if dd wasn't taking the bottle I would be going, can't miss a chance to see him in the flesh!

Eigmum Sun 12-May-13 10:31:58

And see the palace!

plonko Sun 12-May-13 10:47:37

Very exciting Eig. Will be lovely getting your gladrags on and getting fed a slap up dinner, just the thing to make you feel human again eh?
The night nanny's advice makes sense intellectually - it should solve the too hungry to sleep/too tired to eat dilemma. It's a trap we're guilty of even with the bigger bottles.

Wing I'm not poas today as we only resumed relations 3 weeks ago so I think it'd be too soon. I'm eagerly awaiting my monster period. Another one for you SoYo before you go off enjoying a delicious roast dinner - my loch is didn't disappear until 6 and a half weeks postpartum. Could this be a reason for delay?

StormyBrid Sun 12-May-13 11:27:20

Eig we're not deliberately dropping any night feeds at this stage. You're right; night feeds are the only way we can make sure she gets anything like enough milk in her. And we do get up at seven, as otherwise there wouldn't be time for enough feeds before bedtime. We just don't actually wake her for the 11pm feed (and she takes three ounces, usually, with no fuss at all). The other night feed we wait for her to wake up and let us know she's hungry.

Mind you, even when she hits thirteen pounds or so, I'm not going to want to drop a night feed unless we've managed to explain to her what an appetite is by then!

SoYo Sun 12-May-13 14:57:39

Plonko that can definitely be a reason for delay as your postpartum hormones often don't return to normal for up to 6 weeks which wuld stop you having a period. Even without that its still not uncommon for a long delay to first period. The only reason to POAS is because you haven't been using a reliable form of contraception & if you were pg you'd probably want to know sooner rather than later!

Eigmum Sun 12-May-13 15:24:43

Ok, napping sorted, we (me,dh and mil) plus dd went to natural history museum. Dd slept from11.30 til 2.15 in buggy while we went around museum, had lunch, woke on tube home and I fed her... Very pleased with my cover up and great to manage an outing!! Dd didn't get to see any of the museum but never mind!

Eigmum Sun 12-May-13 15:28:01

stormy that makes sense, I am going to be the same, until she is really keen in food during the day I am going to keep up all the night feeds! I like chubby babies!

Eigmum Sun 12-May-13 15:29:19

Although I am joking about naps as clearly can't walk non stop from 11.30 til 2 every day!

StormyBrid Sun 12-May-13 15:33:04

Chubby babies? What are they? Can feel all the bumps in this one's spine, and see her ribs clearly. And she's now having a screaming fit because she's tired yet she refuses to sleep. Argh!

Wow this thread has been busy! I missed my window of opportunity for a morning catch up, as it appeared to have vanished. Or was that just me? Seriously, I checked, and re-checked, and checked threads I'm on... and nada. Most weird. But then again I am a sleep deprived walking zombie so it is entirely possible that I have lost the ability to read.

Hob-nobbing with royalty are you now Eig... <curtseys, bows, doffs hat, and..... falls over> grin. Have fun, and say hi from me. Not that he'll have any clue who I am, but hey, enjoy!

Plonko - pregnancy scare? confused Already?! You're a brave one. I'm kinda broody for number 2 as well, and frankly time isn't on my side with this one so will have to get cracking sooner rather than later, but already? Not. A. Chance.

As for feeding, well yes, we're still on 2 night feeds at 10 (is it really 10...) weeks (3.30am and 5.30am) as well. My maternity nurse friend assures me that at 10 weeks her smallest-ship should be more than able to sleep through, and in fact should be doing so. Really? Should she now? Well that doesn't make me feel inadequate. Oh no, not at all hmm. In fact I'll have words with her now and she what she says. Wish me luck with that ladies as although dd is the most intelligent child on the planet (according to her dad) her language skills? Bit lacking...

The BIG news though (brace yourselves), we can finally do bottles? Yay, go me... For those on the bottle refuser treadmill, the DD approved bottle type is Dr Brown, and the cunning method used to con her is holding her in the breastfeeding position. Sit her upright and stick a teat in her mouth and she just coos and looks confused. Lie her on her side and her brain thinks - lunch!

Speaking of food, she's woken up and I have a split nano second before she cries.... aaannnnnddd there she goes, right on cue grin

leniwhite Sun 12-May-13 18:28:17

Arrrrrrrggghhhh!!! DS is having a complete booby meltdown day. Hasn't managed a full feed without going nuts... 48 hours without formula but I may have to resort to a bottle tonight unless I want another sleepless night hmm

zigwig Sun 12-May-13 18:31:18

I didn't start the pill again to kick start things as such it was more in the vague hope I might get brave enough to try sex again lol. Dr said I could either wait until period to start taking them or take them now and use extra protection for first week. Not that I've been brave enough yet. And this period is horrendous but in a weird way has made me feel better as though it's made my body more "back to normal". Very odd.

HAve started trying a routine here as he's almost put himself into one and I want to start trying to up feed amounts in the day so he won't need as much at night. Managed well yesterday but he's demanded an extra bottle around 4.30 and has been fast asleep on me since then so that will probably muck up bedtime.

Had my cousin pop round today with her perfectly behaved baby. He's lovely. He's also about a month and a half older so she had some cute outfits to give us that he's grown out of. Haven't braved going out today as it's chucked it down all day and haven't got much constructive done as bubs has been a grouch this afternoon wanting cuddles or entertaining or he'll cry. My baby is also at his happiest first thing and gets gradually grumpier over the day.

Hope everyone has had a decent weekend.

StormyBrid Sun 12-May-13 18:47:35

I think the getting grumpier as the day progresses is a standard thing. Little Miss Fartypants is currently having a tantrum, because a) it's the witching hour and b) her dad is committing the heinous crime of putting clothes on her. We had a bit of a hellish afternoon with her point-blank refusing to nap, yet bitching because she was knackered. Eventually managed a twenty minute catnap after a measly two ounce 4pm feed, then she seemed perfectly cheerful.

zig we often have a late afternoon catnap on me, I find it's best to limit it to no more than forty five minutes, and wake up at least an hour before bedtime. Then it's more just briefly recharging her batteries so she can handle bedtime, rather than properly catching up on sleep.

Glad it's not just me that's broody. But I think the man would have a heart attack if I said I was pregnant now. I'm 95% certain I'm not going to be able to persuade him we need a second. Although he only agreed to the first because I was, according to him, "pulling a sulky face", so perhaps he'll be easier to convince than I think.

worsester does your friend think DD should be going through the night with no milk at all? Because that's highly dependent on whether you have a baby that agrees to eat lots during the day. Mine? No chance. plonko's? Far more likely.

I was reading about the skills babies develop from one week to the next, and realised we need a rattle! And some finger puppets! And things with crazy patterns! I was about to buy half of amazon, when the man pointed out that his wealthy father is visiting this week, and all we have to do is steer him in the direction of Mothercare. I feel a bit mercenary about this, but as the man's mother told me "If you go shopping with his dad, and you see something you like, just casually mention how much you like it..." I figure I shouldn't feel too guilty.

And best news of the day: my dad's babysitting on Tuesday, so we are eating out then going to see Star Trek for my birthday. grin

plonko Sun 12-May-13 19:25:29

Worsester your maternity nurse sounds as confidence-inspiring as my health visitor! I don't really like this idea of pushing devopments at our kids. They'll do it all in their own good time! We can gently encourage them to try to sleep through, but if wet nappies and empty bellies wake them then so be it - they won't still be doing it when they're 20 so what's the big deal? All babies are different, as Stormy points out. Will definitely be checking out the baby dry nappies to see if they make a difference!

SoYo thanks again for the advice. I'm going Tokelau POAS purely because I think I could get a false result now. DS began life as a negative result after all. If I leave it a week I should get a genuine negative and may even start my monster period in the meantime. Otherwise I'll becoming Zig and just starting the packet.

I've decided to be philosophical about this. It's made me realise that I definitely 100% want another (but not now!) and pregnancy/labour doesn't scare me. I'd just have to be rate brazen about getting up the duff so quickly, and become some kind of non-sleeping supermum.

vjhist85 Sun 12-May-13 20:12:31

Well we've had a day of relatively successful napping, in that we managed 3x40 mins and a 2 hr whopper! Amazing the difference it makes to bath/bedtime. I'm also realising, the more I get to know DD, that she's pretty damn independent. Most of the time, if she's grumpy, it seems to be because she wants to be left alone! No cuddles, rocking or shushing for mini-v, she seems to be saying "I would like you to entertain me, but whatever you do, DO NOT TOUCH ME". She'll accept it when bfing, but with a bottle she wants to be flat on her back in her cot. It probably sounds great to a lot of people, she's happiest when self-soothing, but it makes me feel a little bit sad. I find myself stealing cuddles when she's not paying attention, like when she's dozy and milk drunk first thing.

vjhist85 Sun 12-May-13 20:15:33

Ps, on the subject of broody, I was expecting the "I'd do it again tomorrow" feeling to have worn off by 9 weeks, but it hasn't. If it were financially viable and I thought I could persuade DH, I really WOULD do it again tomorrow

StormyBrid Sun 12-May-13 20:19:34

A two hour nap! I am dying of jealousy here.

Bathtime went alright, except for the usual screaming while getting dressed. Supper was less of a success, involving a milk fountain and a full change of bedclothes. Total milk intake today = fourteen ounces. With two night feeds to go that are typically three ounces each, this means I have my fretting hat on yet again.

Just had a chat with the man about possibly having another. He's adamant it's not happening, and seems perplexed that people actually have kids with the expectation of enjoying the experience. I am hoping he'll view things a bit more positively when she's a bit bigger, more interactive, and less prone to vomiting all over him.

vjhist85 Sun 12-May-13 20:26:41

stormy I wish I could have enjoyed the 2 hrs more, but I was on constant tenterhooks waiting for her to wake up as she snoozed past 3 hrs since last feed. However, I know I was lucky to get it! And I'm sure if you managed to persuade your man just by looking sulky, it shouldn't be too tricky to get him to agree again!

plonko Sun 12-May-13 20:34:13

Could you look sulky whilst wearing a frilly bra?

StormyBrid Sun 12-May-13 20:37:42

Possibly, plonko, but most of my underwear is more functional than sexy, and I can't fit into any of his frilly underthings, because his waist is smaller than my leg (no exaggeration; I measured). Will put the acquisition of alluring knickers on my to-do list!

Vj I know what you mean about the tenterhooks. It's always at the 45 minute mark for us, she's very predictable (and frustrating) in that respect.

I wasn't deliberately looking sulky...

ecofreckle Sun 12-May-13 20:37:47

Eig that sounds grand! Good for you. Ask him whether he has any tips on how to get babies to sleep. You should help him get in the baby frame of mind being as he's going to be a grandpa soon! Wonder if he'll change nappies...
Worc your bottle tactic sounds like one to try. Today's attempt took ages as we were waiting for her to be good humoured, but it was still a fail. She did however tolerate the teat in her mouth for a few mins. Worc did you do the feed or was it dh?
Soyo so our hormones are normal ish again after six weeks? Does that mean I can't really blame feeling shite on my hormones and that I might actually be feeling shite for real?
Our biggest news today is that we have finally made it through to watching final episode of master chef. It was raining at the time. Earlier in day we managed an hour's walk around a broad (where we discussed how we're finding parenthood) and a picnic afterwards.
Does anyone else still feel like there's movement in their tummy where their baby once was? Maybe it's still organs rearranging themselves....

ecofreckle Sun 12-May-13 20:44:56

vj do you think that because I've not thought 'I'd do it all again tomorrow' at all since dd's birth it's a sign my family is now complete? Closet I've come is seeing dads with little boys and thinking 'it'd be nice for dh to have a son too'. Having said that dh seems delighted with having a daughter. She's already a daddy's girl :-)

WingDefence Sun 12-May-13 20:51:31

Eig my BF was at a wedding yesterday at the Nat Hist Museum! Apparently the whole wedding (for her DH's rich cousin) cost something like £80,000 shock

I have a feeling that I'm doing something wrong... DS and I are vegging out in front of the tv and he's playing on my iPad and DD has been continuously feeding and snoozing on me. Not long (30-45 mins) between each feed and they've only lasted 6-12 mins each time.

I just looked back at my app and DD feeds on average 15 times a day!!! Surely, surely that can't be right? I suppose that does include where I've put that she's done 9 mins on one side and then straight away another 8 on the other (making those figures up). She spends about 4-5 hours on the boob each day and that's gone down slightly from average of 5 a couple of weeks ago.

This afternoon she's not let me put her down at all and has just been feeding constantly since 7ish. My v Dear Dad came round unexpectedly this afternoon and held her (she cried about a third of the time) while I made and ate tea for me and DS and also stayed to help put him to bed. Invaluable help. I was worried about doing it myself but was going to bite the bullet whatever the practicalities were but I really did need his help. I hoped she'd have napped not on me but she really doesn't seem to like her bouncer, which was DS's and he'd loved it sad

I just want her to sleep now as my nipples feel mashed. I damn well hope this is just the 6 week growth spurt.

This is massively cross posted probably as I started writing it at 4pm (I'm on my phone) sad

vjhist85 Sun 12-May-13 21:18:13

eco I'm sure that not feeling broody yet has no bearing on whether or not you will feel broody in future. I've always wanted more than one, and close together if possible, probably because I'm one of 5 and whilst I don't remember loving it as a kid, it's so much fun having loads of siblings now we're grown up and can get drunk together!

wing one side immediately followed by the other is definitely one feed, but it still sounds exhausting. Im sure youre doing nothing wrong, whilst dd is pretty predictable on the whole, I still have days and evenings when I think "are you ACTUALLY serious? Hungry again?" Such is the nature of demand feeding. I am assured this improves?!? Roll on that day.

Was it here I saw a discussion of breast-feeding suitable wedding outfits? Anyone had a look at "izzy's mum" website? There are some lovely (and reasonable) dresses on there.

WingDefence Sun 12-May-13 22:03:58

Well I put her down at 9:20. She woke up at 9:40. DH came home at 9:45. I have raged at him because I am seriously p-ed off at the way today has gone. I fed her again and put her down asleep five mins ago. She woke up as I left the room and I'm now listening to her probably extracting herself from the swaddle and no doubt she'll cry within a few seconds.

ARGH sad I just want a damn break DD.

ecofreckle Sun 12-May-13 22:46:44

wing I hope you get/got your break? I'm at six/seven weeks and it is testing for us too. Hope that all those feeds make their way into her belly soon and make her very very sleepy. Fingers crossed for you.

SoYo Sun 12-May-13 22:46:50

I currently have not even entertained the idea of having another, this just seems too bloody difficult to do again, never mind if you already have a toddler demanding your attention too! I always thought I'd have 2 but currently 1 is looking very appealing!

MiniYo has been grazing all evening with 5minute snoozes in between & then wide awake demanding entertaining. We're currently trying to feed her to sleep (that's the royal we, DH is downstairs watching a film) but no signs of snoozing yet!

Wing I hope she's fallen asleep.

Eco the hormones stop affecting our breathing/circulation/heart/clotting etc after 6 weeks but I'm pretty sure it takes a long time to feel normal again not sure I ever will because of the huge change in lifestyle, sleep pattern what bloody pattern and everything else that goes with it. As long as you still feel happy some of the time, can see the joy in things & want to wake up in the morning you're doing ok & very normal.

SoYo Sun 12-May-13 23:02:46

Right, I've been trying to get her to sleep for an hour but still no joy. This baby is trying to break me....it's a battle of wills! Luckily I'm armed with a large mug of now very cold tea and half a pack of dark chocolate digestives, I will win!

zigwig Sun 12-May-13 23:15:30

Oh wing. I know everyone says it but it does get better. I never thought it would when I was at your point but I'm now sat on my bed watching him sleep. He's been sleeping on his own in his crib since 8. They really do fall into their own pattern when they're ready. Doesn't help you now I know. Just leave bubs while you get yourself a cup of tea. She's quite safe even if she is crying. You can go to her once you've had a couple of minutes to breathe. And for what it's worth my little horror hated the bouncer until last week. You WILL be able to put them down for more than one minute without them crying very soon.

pudtat Mon 13-May-13 01:51:34

Oh wing, it's tough, isn't it!

As you know i also track feeds carefully. fwiw as comparison, MiniPud also spends an average of 3.5 to nearly 5 hours on the boob a day, but in 5-7 feeds. I count one feed as being the total within a session between naps, no matter if he does one side, both or even back again within that. I do try to keep him focused on the job in hand, so once he stops swallowing, if a blow on the cheek and a back rub doesn't get him going again, I will unlatch him and at least burp him to check for further hunger cues. Otherwise he's using me as a dummy and I don't want to greatly encourage that. I am quite firm about waking him up to go back on if he comes off after around 10 mins though (which he usually does) as I can see this is the end of my foremilk and start of slower letdown hind milk and don't want him only getting the former. A quick hand express is my way of checking this, usually can see the creamier whiter milk just starting to come through. Putting him back on usually illicits another 10-30 mins of feeding per side, sometimes bobbing off for burping along the way.

If you have good supply, might you have a bit too much foremilk, filling her up without the calories to stay full before she gets to the high calorie content end? Would it be worth expressing a little before she starts? What are her poos like - any tendency towards green and runny which can indicate this? She's growing well right? It's the hind milk which gives them the growth stuff (technical term there) so hence importance (ha, hilarious coming from me with the baby who won't grow right now I know) but also calories to sleep for longer periods. Don't know if any of that is helpful, sorry if teaching grandma etc and if it doesn't sound like a problem obv ignore. Just a thought.

leniwhite Mon 13-May-13 01:56:38

Wing I'm totally in the same boat. Feeding every hour of the day and yet when he falls asleep and I take him off he wails. Gave him a bottle to try and fill him up - he still wailed. I'm currently 2 nights in to a 6 night solo stretch and wondering how on earth I'll survive hmm please let it just be the 6 week growth spurt (how long does that last for?!)

WingDefence Mon 13-May-13 04:12:13

Thanks all. This thread is a life saver. Well in the end I fed her to sleep after I wrote that last post so she went down at 10:30 and once again I woke up a couple of times before now but we went through till 3:40. Again, she wasn't crying when I got her up but had done a few poos (unusual for the night) which I didn't want to leak and had got her arms out so I though it best to change and feed her now.

Leni, I hope the 6 week growth spurt doesn't last six weeks!

I will take my app's stats with a pinch of salt. Pud, your advice is great and I'll have a proper read of it later. I've got the six week check up tomorrow so I'll try to get some advice from the HV. I thought hind milk let down happened before ten mins though? I was happy with my supply as often DD will have been on for 20-odd mins and fall off and I'll give a quick squeeze and more milk is there but now I'm not sure.

Milk is a minefield!

I didn't even bother with the bottle yesterday as she was being such a monkey. Right she's done 14 mins and is asleep so I'm going to try to put her down again...

WingDefence Mon 13-May-13 04:22:50

Transfer fail. Why does everything that worked for the past few weeks seem to have stopped working??? sad

ecofreckle Mon 13-May-13 04:28:19

To give you other struggling six week people hope dd just slept from 2000 to 0400. Bearing in mind (last night and others) was 2330, 0330 and 0630 this is big news. And probably a one off
soyo thanks for the info. Interesting biology this baby making stuff. I feel joy at Dd's smiles, a long hot bath, a blue skied dawn and choc eclairs so I reckon I'm doing ok :-)

ecofreckle Mon 13-May-13 04:43:18

Oh wing it's a tricky night your end by the sounds of it. Why have things stopped working? Because they're contrary and like to keep us on our toes so we truly earn our mummy halos. We're having pretty yuck days of endless transfer fails resulting in little day time sleep. Is your lo still in your room for sleeping? Do you feed her in the room she sleeps in? After night feeds I sit dd upright for 15 mins in a quiet cuddle, swaddle, hold her face close to my chest and then transport her for popping her back. She then makes lots of elephant and farm yard animal noises but I ignore them. What are you doing? When what I'm currently doing stops working one day soon I may steal your tactic.
Hope you get some sleep for both of you soon.

pudtat Mon 13-May-13 05:04:21

Hi wing, just for clarification, I'm wondering whether you might have slight oversupply issues rather than anything else. Chatting with hv sounds a good plan, otherwise you might find some helpful thoughts here...

Oh, and re letdown, think we're all different, but miniPud falls off first time between 8 and 12 mins with alarming regularity, so that's just my stats. 7 feeds a day is our normal. Plus during growth spurts he feeds 9 times a day. However, as you can see we're apparently not normal and he still has a v small amount of formula (0-200mls per day usually).

Leni, how're you finding fenugreek, I've been on it a couple of days and think its helping already... Hard to know of course.

SoYo Mon 13-May-13 06:28:02

We've been up at 1 & 2 with noises that just needed shushing back to sleep, a feed at 3 (did write a post but then managed to delete) and feeding again now. Currently finding it very frustrating that DD is nearly 11 weeks & in the last 8 weeks her sleeping hasn't improved at all, in fact she's sleeping less during the day & no more at night. All other babies seem to be having some sort of natural improvement & I feel like I just be missing a trick or doing something wrong. confused

pudtat Mon 13-May-13 07:01:25

A final link which i found helpful... Re schedules for bf babies as I wanted to say that while we are approx following the Eat Activity Sleep pattern of evil BW, this is because its what miniPud did naturally and we don't clock watch, he gets fed on demand. I just find it works best for both of us if he concentrates on it when he's hungry.

Re nights, we were fairly typical last night, down at 8.30 after bath, up at 1.10. Change and half hour feed. Back to sleep 1.50. Up 4.25 for 20 min feed. Back to sleep 4.55. Grumbly throughout and awake again 6.25. Will hope to get another 1 plus hr nap after this feed.

StormyBrid Mon 13-May-13 07:24:46

If it makes you feel better, SoYo, DD is getting progressively worse at daytime sleep. And worse at eating. Debating whether to call the doctor in a bit - daytime feeds yesterday we only managed fourteen ounces, and that was with offering the bottle eight times. Only two ounces before she said she was full at breakfast, and tried to fall asleep. So I put her back to bed, and now she's squeaking. Argh. It would be nice to not have this constant feeling of not having a clue what to do for the best.

WingDefence Mon 13-May-13 08:08:39

Will read all those links later - thanks again thanks

DD went down at 4:50 when I stopped trying to reswaddled her arms then she woke at 6 so I fed her lying down in bed with her lying next to me! Then we all snoozed until DS came in at 7 and i picked her up to make room for him in our bed and she slept on me until I gave her another ten mins on the othe side, lying down again. DH took her downstairs at 7:30 so I could have a cuppa and I'm going to get up now.

If I ever get on my iPad later (DS isn't at preschool today hmm...) I'll name check you all properly.

plonko Mon 13-May-13 09:19:16

I'm still in bed giving DS a bottle and he's wrapping his hand around my thumb in such a way... soyo moments like this give me joy. He's farting like a good un though hmm sleep here is gradually improving but if really is at a snails pace. It seems to be one step forward two steps back.

Wing I'm sorry you had such a shitty night. It sounds like your DH is making the right moves though - that cuppa must have been the best one ever! I don't have any advice (other than sugfesting a thermal cup) but I'm amazed by all the hard work you BFing mummies put in.

Stormy you poor love. I think seeing the dr again is a good idea, and you need to do what you feel is best. I can't imagine the stress of having such a food refusing baby. The doctor may have more advice or be able to start having a good look at your LO to see if there's any underlying problems.

StormyBrid Mon 13-May-13 09:27:44

Our day so far:

6.45 baby shouting. Fed upstairs. Two and a half ounces down, fell asleep. Put her back to bed.
8.15 baby awake. Got her up, fed her. Three and a half ounces down. Awake and cheerful for an hour before falling asleep in the bouncy chair.

The first bottle of the day had gaviscon in it, and I offered her the remains of it at 8.15. The second had no gaviscon. So, my current thinking is, if gaviscon thickens the milk in the stomach, it's perhaps making her feel full rather quicker. So I'm going to experiment with not giving gaviscon every feed, and see what happens. Of course, if that means a return to the fussiness and the screaming, we shall have to rethink.

The man's gone to work with a horrible cough and a yearning to get sent home early. I hope he succeeds, it's going to be a bloody long day otherwise. And if he's at work I have to do the bedtime routine, which I haven't actually done for several weeks. Bit worried I may miss something essential that he always does that gets her sleeping so beautifully.

Have also decided to hell with trying to get her to nap in her cot for now. She's grand in there at night, which we're very lucky with, and daytimes she can just fall asleep wherever and whenever. Going to keep notes and see if a pattern emerges.

SoYo Mon 13-May-13 09:34:36

At least little madam had a nice lie in this morning. I brought her into bed after her 6-6.30 feed & she just woke up 15mins ago with a lot of stretching & massive smiles! She knows I can never be mad at that beautiful gummy grin!

Stormy thanks for the reassurance. I think you should go to the GP too. It's very likely they'll check her over, weigh her & plot the centile again, make sure she's having plenty of wet & dirty nappies and add nothing more useful but at least you'll have the reassurance of them telling you your lovely baby s fine and not starving!

I met 2 of my friends for lunch the other day, one has a 5 mth old who is massive, grown out of Moses basket, bassinet of pram etc & wearing 12mth clothes; the other has a 1yr old that is a fussy eater with a very tiny appetite, still wears 6mth clothes, is a tiny wee tot & they both weigh the same. Both are happy, healthy & thriving babies. I suppose if you we're breast feeding you'd just be judging by baby & not by volume but in some ways bottle feeding s hard because they're telling you how much your baby should take & then it's natural to worry when they don't.

Damn it....poonami.

pudtat Mon 13-May-13 09:35:39

Stormy, as ever Plonko talks sense. I would talk to your doc, and if they're not being v helpful, is there an infant feeding coordinator you could be referred to? Ours is based in our big hospital, but aside from one time (where we were there anyway for miniPud's tongue tie clip) where she did an observation of a feed - not relevant in this case - I've dealt with her exclusively by phone. Very useful she's been too. Just a thought... Hope today gets better and baby Stormy decides she's hungry.

vjhist85 Mon 13-May-13 09:43:10

stormy that's exactly how we found vague napping success. I had assumed that as she's so brilliant at going to bed at 7pm, the same would be true at naptime. When I gave up and just encouraged napping wherever I am and wherever she seems happiest (bouncy chair, pram, floor!) things got better. I still give her sleep "cues"- dummy, same blanket, etc. it also means that I can help her to stay asleep when she starts to stir at 30-40 mins. A bit of extra bouncing,dummy return etc. I may be setting myself up for future problems, but my theory is that she didn't learn to sleep at night on her own, so I shouldn't expect her to learn to nap on her own. I hope that when she gets used to it we'll be able to move her to her cot. I also downloaded a baby sleep app and log all her sleeps, there's a definite pattern emerging.

WingDefence Mon 13-May-13 10:27:45

Right. I fed DD for 25 mins on one side until 9:45 ands when she came off I'd burp her (not always with a burp) and pop her back on. She's crying a bit now already and the easy thing would be to pop her back on but that's not helping me or her is it? So DH has for her and is trying to calm her down (she's not distraught, only intermittent cries) so we'll see how it goes with giving her boob as a later resort.

Pud there were some things I could identify with on that over-supply link. I do get blanched nipples sometimes but thought that was renaulds (sp?) as it's far worse when I'm cold. I also think the evening fussing last night was related to wind but I couldn't get much up and she's not been sick. Also, that isn't as bad in the daytime.

I hope my HV isn't useless tomorrow! I'm not going to completely loser mind unless she's still like this at 8 weeks... It's not a routine problem really it's more of a give me a break DD problem! I know her first stretch of sleep was 5 hours last night but it's hard to get past the extreme feeding and brief naps of yesterday.

Right best go x

Guess what?!! DD slept through smilesmilesmile. I expect this is a once only never to be repeated special offer, and probably had more to do with her having spent the entire afternoon and evening partying, with only a 20min nap between 5pm and 11pm.... but it still felt good. Over 7 hours... I feel almost human again. Or I would do if I hadn't woken at 3am and 5am as normal, and spent at least an hour checking she was still breathing and generally panicking grin

I can identify with the constant snacking feeding lark that these bf babies seem to specialise in. The only tips I have are:

Make sure they don't get to warm and cosy when they are feeding as then they mess about and take snooze breaks. Take one foot out of the baby-gro if need be to wake them up a bit.

Wind regularly, as an air bubble can be really quite filling, and once it's gone they'll remember they are hungry.

If you think they are full tap their lips with your little finger. They'll open their mouth if they are still a bit hungry, and turn their head if they aren't.

There ends the sum total of my bf-ing knowledge, and probably hasn't imparted any wisdom that isn't already part of everyone's arsenal of tricks already.

WingD - £80k on a wedding shock Dear g*d... <faints> I hope they enjoyed themselves as can you imagine going off on honeymoon with that big a dent in your bank balance, thinking 'hmmm, hate to say it, but actually that was a bit sh*t' grin

Desperately seeking a poonami event here... 8 days and counting and the tiddler is really suffering sad. Tried baths, massage, leg cycling, trips out in pram, the works, but aside from some really impressive cart horse darts, no joy. Sigh... the things we have to think about.

Right, lunch time and I'm going for a 50:50 bottle/breast feed. Wish me luck!!

Cart horse darts? Darts????? Farts of course.... grin

StormyBrid Mon 13-May-13 11:40:15

10.30, ounce and a half, no gaviscon. 11.15, ounce and a half, with gaviscon. Baby now flat out on the playmat. On her front, too, but I am watching her and she is breathing, and if she forgets to, the washing machine vibrating the floor should remind her again. Am waiting for a call back from the health visitor to ask what the hell I should do, because no gaviscon = screaming and not eating enough, but gaviscon = getting full and not eating enough.

leniwhite Mon 13-May-13 12:40:28

Like Wing, we had no more than an hour of kip last night... Feeds were fussy and involved much screaming and kicking. Sore nipples today confusedalso have white patches (is that blanched? Haven't looked at that link yet).

I actually have no idea how many feeds we do a day. We just feed whenever he asks basically, which seems to be about every 3 hours (apart from growth spurts!). Also no idea how much goes down him in a day, and so far he's put on more than average so despite the endless pain for us, at least he's thriving grin

Some painful and very loud poos happening here today, farting like a trooper.

Hard to tell if the fenugreek is working - definitely able to express loads more now but that could also be because of the increase in BFing.

I'm still frustrated that the latest fussiness means OH is keen to give bottles after I've hung in there through really hard days to get him off formula... I don't think formula is bad at all, it's just I knew I had milk and I didn't want to not use the milk I had just because it was difficult for me, iyswim. Hoping today is easier and it's only a phase! I've not left the house since we got back from the Pils because I'm worried he'll be screaming, so I really need him to settle soon for my sanity. Still trying to figure out a safe way to carry the pram down the stairs with him in the sling hmm

plonko Mon 13-May-13 12:40:35

Hmm there must be a third way Stormy. Gaviscon is such an everyday product I wonder if there's something more delicate?

And well done Worsester! We made it from 7.30-4.30 when DS started grumping over his nappy. I woke up at 3 though and waited for him to wake - I guess we need to learn to sleep through too now!

DP and I are having issues again. Hmm. It's strange that the little person we made together is beginning to pull us apart.

SoYo Mon 13-May-13 13:25:12

Leni you need to go out! I couldn't carry on without fresh air every day! Can you leave DS in his bouncer while you run theparm downstairs & thn go back up & get him?

Stormy what about asking your GP to prescribe ranitidine so the reflux is being treated but the milk isn't being thickened?

Plonko it's so difficult isn't it, I don't think you can ever imagine the strain something you made together can have on your relationship. There's no time to make an effort or have quality time, very different opinions on parenting styles, extreme exhaustion. I really hope you're ok!

DH starts nights tonight so I'm off out for the afternoon with bubba for a bit so he can have a sleep. It means evenings and nights are just me this week to try to sort me, baby and dog. It's a scary prospect!

vjhist85 Mon 13-May-13 13:39:38

Please ignore my comment about napping success. Today has only been abject failure, this is making me particularly nervous as I have to take her into work for a meeting this afternoon. This could go one of two ways- she's exhausted so falls asleep in the car on the way there and is then out cold for the duration or (more likely) she has a complete meltdown at exactly the point I'm trying to convince some very important people that I'm still totally in control and capable of juggling a hard job and motherhood... stormy the far more knowledgeable soyo beat me to it, I was about to say there are other ways of dealing with reflux that work in a different way to gaviscon so def worth going back to GP.

leni I often leave DD in the house whilst I carry things to and from the car/up and down the stairs etc (car is often parked quite a way away) . Felt like social services would hunt me down when I first did it but now I just tell the cats to look after her... Depends how far your flat is from outside though, I can imagine the logistics are a bit of a nightmare.

plonko wish I could give advice but I'm rubbish at relationships and just lucky that DH is happy to be in charge of fixing us when necessary. Just remember though, this is surely one of the toughest things you've ever had to do, think of every day survived as something to be immensely proud of.

StormyBrid Mon 13-May-13 13:54:14

Vj whatever you do, don't tell the HV you use the cats as babysitters. Last one who visited me told me in no uncertain terms that they must never ever ever be left alone together. Whether this is for the baby's safety or the cats', I don't know. Think the neurotic one may be realising the baby isn't a monster at last - she gave her such a head bump earlier she nearly knocked her over.

Ranitidine, how does that one work? Am I right in thinking it neutralises the stomach acid? If so, then that sounds promising - the issue we were having in the first place was heartburn, after all.

Thirteen ounces so far today, but that's involved offering the bottle six times. Slightly ridiculous really. Especially as I know she can fit more in her stomach at once - when we first got her on the gaviscon she cleared a couple of five ounce bottles.

Anything you want to talk about, plonko? We're all here and listening (and I could do with something to distract me from the fact I really need a cigarette but someone's having a nap on my knee...)

vjhist85 Mon 13-May-13 14:00:47

stormy I know- it's something else that adds to my 'terrible mother' points, along with letting her nap on her front (while I'm in the room and watching), and using her buggy organiser thing to hold a pint glass when we went to a beer festival. Not too bad in itself but when I tried to push the buggy a bit of beer spilt on her... Not sure I've even washed that blanket... I never actually leave them alone together if she's asleep or lying flat on her back, I figure awake in her bouncer they're unlikely to fall asleep on her head, and they tend to avoid her at all times, she's far too squeaky and jerky for them!

StormyBrid Mon 13-May-13 14:08:16

Terrible mother points, let's see...

Leaving cats and baby together
While I go out for a cigarette
Didn't breastfeed
I smoke while pushing her in the pram (it's forward-facing, before anyone complains)
I would totally take her to the pub if the sun would stick around longer than five minutes
Controlled crying (shock, horror!)
I tend to leave her to entertain herself while I eat breakfast, wash up, etc.
Total failure to remove any expletives from my vocabulary (thank God she doesn't understand them yet)
I let her watch Top Gear and Formula One with her dad on a daily basis.

Is this enough to have SS hunt me down and shoot me, d'you think?

vjhist85 Mon 13-May-13 14:10:20

Oh- and I think ranitidine stops the stomach producing as much acid, unlike gaviscon which stops it from rising out of the stomach, so it's got to be worth a try.

vjhist85 Mon 13-May-13 14:15:45

The only one of those I don't do is the smoking- gave up at 12 weeks pregnant. Desperately want to start again but too embarrassed to as my 56 yr old father quit a 40 year, 40 a day habit for the sake of my daughter- it wouldn't be great if I then restarted (although he lives miles away so...) and I'd totally do controlled crying if I needed to, she's just not much of a crier, at least not for no reason, there's usually something else I can do.

My sister told me the beer in buggy thing gave me 1000 good parent points. This is why I love my sister.

vjhist85 Mon 13-May-13 14:17:47

Oh- and I already stick her in front of the TV if I haven't got the energy to entertain her. She's going to be a telly addict like her mother...

StormyBrid Mon 13-May-13 14:25:03

I could probably claim about a million terrible mother points if I admitted I didn't actually entirely quit when pregnant. But I'm not going to admit it in case the lurkers come and shout at me. Didn't seem to stunt her growth, at any rate! And I figure cutting down from forty a day to less than ten a day is not bad going.

The man just got home with many new jingly things to hang from the baby gym. Also a couple of jingly things that strap to her wrists and help her find her hands. I think she's already found them though, it's getting hard to shift them out of the way to get the dummy in her mouth. And then, of course, she bitches because she wants her dummy! I think we're going to end up with a thumb sucker sooner rather than later here. (Hoping like hell that'll help with the naps, because watching her today it's clear loss of dummy is her main napping obstacle.)

StormyBrid Mon 13-May-13 15:51:55

Well, I just had a call back from the health visitor. After extensive questioning about how we feed her, she suggested I a) keep a food diary (which I've been doing since day six) b) talk to the doctor about alternative medications (already planning that) and c) try comfort milk (just sent the man out for some). Was a bit hmm that the health visitor didn't seem to actually know what different medications are available. Oh, and she suggested d) getting her weighed weekly (already doing that too).

So in terms of general usefulness I'm giving that phone call two out of ten. Which will change to ten out of ten if comfort milk helps.

plonko Mon 13-May-13 17:14:25

Stormy you've gotta love those health visitors eh? Mine told me he should be finding his hands at 6 weeks, and suggested he was physically slow for not doing it. This is despite his excellent neck control and trying to put weight on his feet if we held him upright. It makes me wonder just what qualifications some of these hvs have...

Ooh bad parent points... I've got:
Not breast feeding
Not really keeping track of naps/feeds
Leaving the cat to babysit
Not getting him weighed regularly
Introducing him to In The Night Garden this morning so I could shower in peace (totally worked)
Controlled crying
Often just putting him down for a few mins so I can't all away and clear my head.

Leni I totally second getti g out of the flat everyday. If just for ten mins, it'll do you a world of good.

Thanks for the concern ladies. It turns out my idea of quality family time is not the se as DPs. I like to get out for 2 or 3 hours for a good walk (living in the Peak District habits perks) whereas he'd like to spend his weekends watching ALL THE FUCKING SPORT with the baby on his knee. I fear that his opinion of me has changed for the worse, and I'm possibly just here for cooking, cleaning and the odd bit of sex. It's way more complex that that but that's the short version. Yesterday I dumped the baby on him and left the house not really knowing where to go...I just had that urge to run and leave them both to it because they'd probably get on better without me. When I feel like this I find it hard to look DS in the eye because he deserves more than a mopey pathetic mother. I live him to bits but I can't do the day in day out SAHM thing.

Phew. Sorry to rant. It doesn't even make sense does it?

vjhist85 Mon 13-May-13 17:54:38

Ok- my talk of bad parent points has made us all far too negative. Lets try good parenting points instead. I'll start:

I've kept a whole person who is entirely dependent on me alive for 9 weeks and 4 days. X 1000000 points
I love her very much even if I'm rubbish at A LOT of things. X 1000000 points
When I'm struggling I know when to walk away instead of losing my temper. X 1000000 points (plonko this one is definitely a positive!)
She smiles at me sometimes, which as far as I'm concerned means she's happy sometimes. X 1000000 points.

Mums are programmed to feel guilty but we're all doing much more good than bad. DEFINITELY!

plonko it makes perfect sense that you're feeling like that, even if what you're feeling is untrue- you ARE doing it, and even better, you're finding it difficult and you're still doing it. That makes you far more impressive than people who find it easy. What do you tend to do with your days? Are you going to groups etc?

SoYo Mon 13-May-13 18:44:25

Plonko the SAHM thing would drive me completely insane too. I'm sure I should be doing more to entertain her & play but after a few minutes I'm bored off my tits! I've made it my mission to go & socialise with other adults as many days as possible because a) she often sleeps in the pram b) if she's awake she seems to like people watching nosey like her parents and c) I have to have fresh air & adult conversation otherwise id go mad. I think i just find the day gies faster out of the house. My DH favours sitting on his bum watching sport too & usually if DD starts he waits for me to get her so I've started taking myself off to another room & having a rest & leaving him with her. It soon disturbs the sport & he becomes happier to go out. I think he'll become much more hands on with her once she's a walking, talking, more fun mini-person.

What's everyone's plans for the evening dinner dates with Princes apart?

StormyBrid Mon 13-May-13 19:00:29

Evening plan: sit around in my dressing gown, eat steak cooked by the man, watch EastEnders, go to bed, sleep, do the 3am feed, have a lie-in because tomorrow's my birthday!

I wasn't feeling particularly negative about the terrible mothering points. Mainly because nothing anyone's listed so far is actually all that terrible, is it? Despite what health visitors would have us believe!

plonko me and the man had a conversation yesterday about how it is NOT my job to clean up his piss when he misses the loo. Even the best of them can drive you insane! Saturday was an arse of a day for sport. I can cope with the F1 but cannot abide football. Killer headache and non-eating baby and me having a crying fit, plus football, led to an exceedingly grumpy Stormy. Which sport is it in your house? And can I suggest "losing" the remote, "forgetting" to pay the sky bill, or possibly just disconnecting the TV plug and chucking it down the loo?

I'm so glad we're admitting staying at home with a baby all day is boring. Because it really is. Wouldn't be so bad if Fartypants would have decent long naps, then I'd get a break from having to entertain her - and she is starting to want to be actively entertained now. On the plus side, jingly things on the baby gym went down a treat, she was entranced.

Just tried the comfort milk at the bedtime feed. Four ounces downed in one go with no fuss. Very promising start! I think we'll be sticking with the normal stuff and gaviscon at night though, because I have three tubs of the stuff in the cupboard.

zigwig Mon 13-May-13 19:11:24

stormy we've tried comfort milk. It's well worth giving it a go. It's essentially thickened milk so you might want to go up a teat size and don't put gaviscon in it or there'll be no poo for a week... not fun and cause of much screaming. It worked well for us with LO colic symptoms but made his reflux worse so we gave up on it. You can get a specific anti reflux one from boots but it sounds pretty similar to the comfort so we didn't bother trying it.

I'll tell you what we've found to work incase it helps your situation. I'm not sure what size bottles you're making but I'm guessing it'll only be 5 or 6 oz ones given your little one doesn't eat much. Through experimentation I've found half a sachet of gaviscon is enough to stop the screaming reflux pain. Maybe that would be an option? We do it to help with the constipation but it might help you if you think that's why the appetite is bad. It might make it easier on the tummy. I currently put in half a sachet of gaviscon and a couple of drops of colief. He still is sick but it doesn't seem to bother him and there's no screaming whilst drinking or after that isn't just trapped wind. Oh and it's just normal aptamil formula.

zigwig Mon 13-May-13 19:14:19

Oo cross post. Glad the comfort is working. Happy birthday for tomorrow!

StormyBrid Mon 13-May-13 19:29:07

Good idea, zig, will try splitting a sachet between the two night feeds. The anti-reflux one did confuse the man when he got to Boots, but fortunately he got the right stuff. And fortunately we've not had any constipation issues yet. Quite the opposite in fact. It was either four or five great big stinkers on Saturday!

Following yesterday's milk fountain and subsequent washing of the swaddle pod, we are trying her in the sleeping bag. Even if she goes to sleep alright, I'm horribly afraid we'll have the forty five minute issue because she'll be smacking herself in the face. But we'll see, not going to fret about it until it happens.

plonko Mon 13-May-13 19:31:35

Stormy Glad the comfort milk has had an instant effect! Shame you can't really flog your remaining normal formula. Hope you can get a good night in as a bday treat. Sadly in this house it's basically all sport besides golf. Thank god we don't have a sky subscription - but his parents do and he's got use of their sky go thing on the laptop. Often that means there's triple football going on here - radio commentary, sky coverage streamed and FIFA all at once. On those days I regret the prohibition of firearms.

SoYo I get adult contact about every other day - not enough!! I envy those who can stay at home without going slowly insane, but wonder if they're just excellent liars. I'm quite sad that I never really got my career going before starting a family, so there's nothing much for me to go back to. Fiddlesticks.

VJ I really need to get over myself and go to a mum and baby coffee thing. I'll bloody hate it though. I'm rubbish in groups and can't stand competitive women but as it is I'm only seeing friends/family once or twice a week during the week. I don't know anyone in my town, but I try to make the effort to leave the house once a day - realistically I don't always manage this.

Plan for tonight is cook dinner (chicken curry) then watch tv while I iron. Score!

vjhist85 Mon 13-May-13 20:14:23

How about something where the main focus isn't just contrived "making friends"? I'm with you on those coffee groups and am avoiding them til I've got someone to go with, but I do mother and baby yoga and swimming, and in my experience (so far) there's been no competitiveness, similar to this thread it's just nice to meet other people who are going through/have been through the same.

leniwhite Mon 13-May-13 20:20:39

Wrote a big post, it got eaten again hmm

Stupid phone!!

I basically see OH for 2 hours a day when I run around doing jobs or washing myself and detangling my hair (I actually broke my hair rush today?!) but other than that no human contact at all whilst he's on working days... Friends come round very occasionally, seeing some tomorrow which is good. I do feel very bored and trapped sometimes. I'm awful at forced socialising, coffee clubs etc feel forced to me I guess because we're all only there because we have babies!

OH has been slightly better behaved and although he still needs to do chores without being told (including cleaning his wee off the toilet) he's being brilliant at sorting out DS when he gets in. I count down the dats until he's off work now, we've actually been getting on really well lately for once. He's going to a comedy gig on Wednesday so he's taken tomorrow off to make it up to me grin

Is the comfort formula the one made from soy?

leniwhite Mon 13-May-13 20:21:06

Hair brush, not rush, obviously

StormyBrid Mon 13-May-13 20:44:26

Don't think it's made from soy, but it has less lactose, and is basically partially digested already. Sounds tasty. And despite it being thicker it actually looks really watery in the bottle.

Jury's still out on the sleeping bag. We've been having periodic whinging, but very sleepy sounding. All been quiet for twenty minutes. If we make it until 10pm I'll breathe easier, but of course I'll be in bed and hopefully asleep by then. Just going to finish this bottle of wine first...

My social life these days is mostly family. I pop round to my dad's for lunch most Mondays, and see him briefly Friday afternoons when he picks DD up and drops her off. Don't see my brother as often as I'd like because he's always working, but his girlfriend's been off work a lot (rough first trimester that she's possibly milking a bit since the doc's happy to write sick notes) and comes over a lot. Very handy having them right opposite us. But friends? Mostly they work during the day and I go to bed early. Suppose I could make more of an effort with baby groups, but I don't really want to meet a load of new people just because we have babies. I already have that here.

ecofreckle Mon 13-May-13 20:45:52

Hi all! Knackered here. Went for two hour walk through the woods with babe in baby bjorn then to cafe for lunch after. This resulted in good napping and only a witching half hour so all good.
Tonight's plan? Well, plonko you'll appreciate this, tonight is play off something or other for my dh's football team crystal palace so he's glued to that but he is 'making dinner' (more 'heating' dinner but I'm still happy). Meanwhile, dd sleeps and I'm doing my usual mega bath which is my only proper solo time. Checking email, making calls, reading etc. And drinking my one daily can of Pepsi which would probably earn me frowns from hv cos of the caffeine.
plonko where you live is so nice we've just booked week holiday there in June. If there's any sport on we should chuck babies at our partners and meet up for a lovely bracing walk. That probably goes against all sorts of mumsnet rules... Groups/getting out wise, did you do nct or any other antenatal? I agree with V that signing up for something structured might be good, yoga, swimming, buggy fit, tiny talk or presma? So much less daunting than a mum and baby coffee morning. Anything like that where you are? Having said that the only things I'm doing so far is meeting mums from our ante natal groups for walks or tea and cake. Dd needs to be a bit bigger before we set too many goals which involve being on time.

leniwhite Mon 13-May-13 21:12:38

Eco you've hit the nail on the head there - how the hell does being on time work with a baby?!

I say phooey to HV's on the caffeine front. I drink tea because it stops me dropping down dead, and as we know the biggest cause of baby harm is maternal death... It might make them more unsettled if drunk in huge amounts but it doesn't harm them for gawd's sake! As usual, weigh up the benefits of keeping mummy sane wink

Spoke to the freeholder of our building today, the people who got it in the neck about a buggy in the hall and subsequently sent round a formal letter. Requested permission (so sad I even have to ask) to leave a folded pram downstairs for the time it takes me to sort out DS and carry him safely down. All very unnecessary. I'm sure mobility aids are an exception to fire regs? What if it were a wheelchair? Plus why is the woman who made the complaint about stuff (buggies) being left in the hall (tucked away under the stairs) allowed to keep a huge plant in the hall?! My plan was that when i saw her she'd probably comment that she hadn't seen me since the birth and then I'd give her the 'I'm housebound because the freeholders won't let me keep the pram downstairs' spiel. Maybe then she'd understand how her silliness affects my life. She put a card through our door when I had DS so I don't know why she feels the need to be so damn difficult. Her husband shouted at OH for being in the communal garden when he was just photographing plants!

SoYo Mon 13-May-13 21:13:27

Enforced socialising isn't generally my idea of fun either but DH forced persuaded me to do NCT. So bloody glad I did because 3 of them are definitely people I'd have been friends with anyway (2 of us have formed a breakaway group for a sneaky weekday glass of wine) & most of them are just as guilty of slummy parenting as us lot! Just one competitive one & since DH told her its best not to compare our two as he thinks DD. is a bit slow (he's a bad bad man with a sick sense of humour) she's shut up!

I did also try one coffee morning but it wasn't for me but we start baby swimming this week which I'm hopeful about. I think the trick might be to not go for one that's too 'precious first born' like baby signing currently crossing fingers that I'm not horribly offending anyone where there's a room of parents convinced their newborn is a prodigy!

Plonko it was chicken curry here too but very disappointing. I'm making up for it with one of those big bags of white choc buttons.

I've ballsed up bed time here. Haven't walked doglet of anything yet and Bubs wanting feeding but if I do it now she won't be hungry in half an hour. Bollocks. Not a good start to my solo night!

StormyBrid Mon 13-May-13 21:15:42

Sleeping bag = fail. Two hours since last feed, so the man has just gone upstairs with another bottle and a just-about-dry swaddling blanket. Fingers crossed she goes down alright, I want to go to bed!

Budge up you lot, and make room for me on the 'bad mummy' bench, as I have just made a decision. DD is going on the bottle (which means mummy can too... although of a different kind grin). Now she'd decided to play ball about it life is just so easy. I had no idea. Seriously NO idea. It takes half the time, and a quarter of the effort to feed her... and she is sleepy afterwards. I'm not ever going to let The Guilt kick in, as frankly after 10 weeks there aren't an awful lot of antibodies floating about in me that she hasn't already collected for herself.

Uh oh, I've just noticed it is dark and the dogs are still out in the garden. That is bad... I'd better going the sort out my furry children before someone reports me.

leniwhite Mon 13-May-13 21:33:55

Baby swimming question - do they wear a nappy in the pool? Please excuse my stupidity...

plonko Mon 13-May-13 21:44:49

Oh you lot grin I bloody love you lot, and I've not even had wine.

DP and I have just had it out. I was in the bath, cornered. Turns out I'm scared about leaving the house with DS. Seriously, being on time for anything with a newborn? Impossible. I don't even have the balls to ask a person working in a cafe to heat his bottle up cos we use a microwave at home and I actually have no clue how to do it otherwise. Ds doesn't give the usual hungry cues - he's asleep and then he screams. I am so not up for attempting solo missions out with him while he does that! We are attempting a family outing to see friends from uni i nbirmingham on Sunday. We might be talking to one another by then.

God I really am pathetic. Worsester this is a big bench. Did I just confess to heating milk in the microwave? Are there any professionally offended types lurking on this thread? (Maybe we should offer them an amnesty if they come forward now)

Didn't do NCT cos of the poverty thing, and dont shoot me i felt like id be too young, too poor, and too shy. Did one pointless nhs group that was ruined by two lentil weaving ncters and totally got the wrong date for the second half. I wish my sister lived closer, she'd be amazing help.

eco where in the peaks are you staying? It's gorgeous here in the summer. I can't wait to enjoy a summer here that's not take over by working/morning sickness!

Crossing everything that DS sleeps through tonight.he barely napped today and were trying baby dry nappies. Of that's not a formula for success then the kid just ain't ready.

WingDefence Mon 13-May-13 22:11:35

Blimey a lot to catch up on. I echo vj though that we must focus on the positives here. We are all doing well, honestly, no matter what our parenting styles using Jeremy Kyle as a v babysitter would not be good though

DDD is currently asleep on me at the moment as DH was out playing footy and I couldn't be bothered to try to put her in the basket earlier. I was (get this) willingly watching the footy tonight as I'm actually a sport fan blush

Leni, I'd love three hours between feeds in the daytime!!! Not a chance unless we are out and she's in the sling on DH eg when we went for our walk last Monday. Oh but even then she only went just over two hours. I'm counting from the end of the last feed as well. If I counted from the start of the previous feed it still only got to 2 hours today but once you factor in 20 mins ish of a feed it never gets more than 1-1.5 hours between feeds really.

Today I have really tried to stretch the time between feeds and it worked till lunchtime before i relented and have tried to get more into her this afternoon/evening as I'm now worried that she's not had enough today to go for as long as normal tonight.

I need a list of things to discuss with the HV tomorrow:
1) oversupply
2) time between feeds
3) DD's baby acne...

Leni, I'd kill the damn plant in the hallway! Feed it with bleach but don't get caught grin

And re baby groups, I've been invited to the post natal group by the children's centre that starts tomorrow. I expect it to be all younger first time mums like at the NHS ante natal classes I went to, whereas at 36 I'm well aware that I seem ancient to those in their 20s!

Hope we all have GREAT nights tonight smile

SoYo Mon 13-May-13 22:14:51

Plonko I was a microwave heater too back when DD took bottles. Good times!

You could always make up a bottle with boiling water & plan for an hours trip out just to a coffee shop or something with a trashy magazine in tow. That way if you needed to give a bottle it'd still be warm & it'd be the start of getting your confidence up?

Also, balls to being on time, who the hell can manage that? If its really important or I'm meeting a childless friend who wouldn't understand I just aim for an hour early & plan to have a large coffee before they arrive although in reality am usually about 5mins late.

Finally managed to get to bed just in time for epic screaming fit. Now she's not feeding particularly well so think I'm in for a bedtime battle. At least the dog went to bed with no arguements. This could be a very long week!

WingDefence Mon 13-May-13 22:17:15

I also used the microwave. It's fine. Just remember to really shake it up afterwards. I the end though we somehow ended up just giving DS room temp milk and never had to worry about heating it when out and about. Problem solved grin

SoYo Mon 13-May-13 22:44:03

Bollocks bollcks bollocks. Gt her down, seemed fast asleep, 15mins later I'd just drifted off & screaming started. Bollocks.

Eigmum Mon 13-May-13 23:57:39

Omg I met prince charles... Very excited ..!

ecofreckle Tue 14-May-13 01:44:40

eig and?! Tell us more! Did he tell you the secret of happy nipples? Or sleeping through? And, what was Camilla like close up?
plonko we'll be not far from hayfield near kinder :-)
soyo guessing as all quiet on western front you managed to get everyone off to sleep in the end?
wing were you watching palace? Dh was like Cheshire cat after that result. So much so that he's off to Wembley the day we are scheduled to attend the open house being held for us so that dd can meet all of his family. I'll be the sole parental rep now. The Cheshire cat grin was somewhat worrying as not seen him that happy/animated for very long time. Makes me wish we could illicit such a response :-( good luck with health visitor, I'll be interested to hear responses. They always just ask me what I think when I ask questions. Frustrating. Time between feeds wise I stretched it from every two to every two and a half the last couple days without any detrimental impact on night time sleep.
Oh...dd finished food. Best go. Back later.

WingDefence Tue 14-May-13 02:08:12

Well DD woke up just before 2 which is just over 3 hours from sleep time so not as good as 'normal' (if we have a normal and frustratingly means I'm likely to be up again before 6-7 sad

Think it's because she was swaddled really well in a slightly bigger blanket and couldn't get out so woke herself up.

Eig, I forgot that your event was yesterday. Can't wait to hear about it smile

SoYo did you get her back down okay?

Eco, well I'm originally from near Palace and the garden of my first house backed onto their training ground in Beckenham (my family support Charlton though) so although I don't support them I wanted them to win. Especially as DH wanted Brighton to win as he lived their for 9 years grin

SoYo Tue 14-May-13 03:00:44

How fancy Eig <curtseys>...do tell us about it!

Yep she went back down at 11 after meltdown number 2 & woke up 15mins ago. I was lying here listening to her grumble when she had huge poo promptly followed by a 'mummy I'm starving & must be fed right this second' screaming hissy whie I changed her. The dog just looked up from her duvet at the bottom of the stairs in disgust when I walked past & turned away from the light!

pudtat Tue 14-May-13 03:18:44

Just lost massive catch up post and with it the will to type it again so hey and hope nights going well...

leniwhite Tue 14-May-13 04:28:03

Plonko I'm actually phobic about leaving the house. No cues here either, he just starts going nuts from nowhere. The idea of him drawing attention in that way before I have to try and Bf in public? No way...

Wing i think i made up 3 hrs between feeds - at the moment I'm lucky to ho an hour without him attached. confused

StormyBrid Tue 14-May-13 05:23:26

plonko don't worry, we use the microwave too. It's a hell of a lot easier at silly o'clock in the morning! And during the day, too. So long as you give the bottle a damn good shake and let it sit for a minute before you check the temperature, it's fine. Oh, and don't tell the HV, obviously!

Know what you mean about feeling too young and poor for NCT classes. Not sure what I'd've got out of them aside from meeting other pregnant people anyway.

Wing the children's centre people were round here yesterday, and invited me to bring DD to sensory classes that basically involve dumping babies in a giant vat of baked beans. I think DD may be slightly young to get the full benefit of this...

I too fail at feeding while out and about. The only feeds she's ever had that weren't at home were at my dad's. I just take a bottle and a little tupperware tub with five scoops of formula with me.

So, 9pm, we reswaddled and offered a bottle. The bottle turned out to be a mistake, she drank two ounces then threw up. But then she went back to sleep, thankfully - I'd been horribly worried she wouldn't settle. Dream feed at 12.30 and she started shouting in her sleep at 4.45. Asleep again now. I don't know why I'm up still, I'm not on breakfast duty, I should be sleeping!

SoYo Tue 14-May-13 06:41:15

The last feed had a fairly epic screamy transfer fail, again just s I switched the light off but got her down 3hrs ago & she's just up so not too bad for us really. I'd like another couple of hours but we'll see. Busy day today, coffee with one friend in the morning & anther in the afternoon & at some point before Thursday I've gift to fit in some hair removal before getting into a swimming cossie!

Hey, I'm ancient and I didn't do NCT classes either.... and only this week resolutely failed to show up at the post natal ones that I assured the Health visitor I would definitely be going to. I'd do anything for DD, EXCEPT hang out with a load of other women that I have nothing in common with other than a saggy belly and smelly small person in tow. Doesn't make me a bad person.... theoretically wink.

I would go mad if I stayed in all day though, so I bung the munchkin in a sling and go for a stomp round the fields. I'm lucky in that my local friends are all dog walkers so are more than happy to join me, and talk about stuff other than babies, which is kind of cool. Fascinating though babies are I like to remember that once upon a time I had other interests.

Eig - don't keep us all in suspense!!! What was he like???!! I've always quite likes old Charlie boy. He reminds me of a cantankerous great uncle who's stuck in another era, but is quite amusing for it. Is it treason to say that? Probably.... in which MNHQ will rap my knuckles and delete me grin

WingDefence Tue 14-May-13 07:18:07

Well DD went down at 2:40 and woke up at 5:30 so I fed her then she snoozed inefficiently on me till 6:30 when DS came in, awake and bouncy as usual hmm

I've also got a busy day with HV and Dr this morning in the local town (25 min drive) then back home for a few hours and back to town for the post natal class. So one of those to-ing and fro-ing days.

Leni, I rememeber especially with DS what a massive sense of achievement I'd get just getting me and him out of the house. It sounds more like a phobia of feeding I'm public but I've only got used to doing it because I've had to IYKWIM. If DD needs feeding, how can I not do that for her? There will be bfing-friendly places near you eg most Costas have a bfing friendly sticker in the window. I always try to find a seat facing away from the room and the secret is to try to stay calm yourself - you know you can get DS latched on even if it takes a bit more of a gaff than normal (which it is) but if you can find a corner seat then you dot have to worry as much about anyone seeing a flash of nipple.

If you really can't do it in a cafe for example, you could find a hidden corner in a library or a baby group setting where really noone cares. In my town there is also a 'baby den' - a little room where anyone can drop in with their baby and feeding them and there are also scales. That's in the community hospital but there may be something similar in your local children's centre.

Really though, at the end of the day your mental health is paramount and honestly IMO, getting out and about will help far more and once you do have to feed a couple of times will help you too.

Stormy, baked beans?! confused

SoYo have a fun day smile

plonko Tue 14-May-13 08:40:48

Eco ooh proper remote. I'm really just outside the peaks (near Matlock) but near enough to live in boots and a north face jacket. And I occasionally see ramblers (sticks and all) walking through my new build housing estate, which always makes me smile.

SoYo when do you sleep?! I'm amazed by your positivity (and ability to go out and drink coffee) when seem to get so little sleep. I'd have trouble not falling over in your situation!

Leni it's hard to imagine leaving the house when they go from 0-10 with no warning isn't it? We go to the park a lot because I'm not bothered about disturbing anyone there. Do you have one within walking distance? I must say I partly blame your batty neighbour for scaring you out of leaving the house. I hope she feels bad for making you lug a pushchair up and down stairs when your baby is tiny. Personally I'm trying to go out for lunch most Fridays with my mum. She's got balls enough for the both of us so when the inevitable happens I won't panic so much if she's with us.

Stormy HAPPY BIRTHDAY! Hope you've had a good haul. my hv is trying to get me to various baby things. Maybe when he's bigger as for now being on time is a big deal. I do like the sound of baby swim class though as I'd get something g out of it too. Or maybe I could just cover DS in baked beans instead of paying a fiver for someone else to?

We went 7pm-5am here shock. I'm quite proud of my little chubster..

pudtat Tue 14-May-13 08:46:09

I've been to a couple of groups but its a bit odd... And didn't do nct as I don't like having other people's issues thrust at me. Did Nhs antenatal and they were a waste of time. Hate being reduced to just mummy, even I'd that is all I am just now.

Mind you, I've booked some kit days at work. First is 5th June which I expect will fly round. Sort of looking forward to it immensely and also terrified that I will have forgotten everything about my job, and will feel I've left a limb at home. Plus will have to work out expressing in the office somehow.

Going out is stressy and throws out the whole day. And I can feed in public now, but finding somewhere isn't always easy when you're not in a big town. Have tried back of the car though which works in extremis.

pudtat Tue 14-May-13 09:08:11

Vj know what you mean about independent LO. I am very slightly sad at how mummy hugs are very rarely comforting here, no, the problem has to be solved more precisely than that.

Leni, I reckon you should go round to mad neighbour and ask a favour - as you can't keep the buggy in the hall and your doc doesn't recommend carrying heavy weights yet <whistles nonchalantly> could you possibly store it in her house and pick it up on your way out? Show cute baby and look exhausted while smiling sweetly. Or could she give you a hand carrying it up and down the stairs? Reckon you could get on to asking permission to store it under the stairs if landlord agreed and shed struggle to argue in front of you. Would others in the bui.ding have a prob do you think?

SoYo Tue 14-May-13 09:58:55

HAPPY BIRTHDAY STORMY

Plonko that sounds like a good night, well done! Madam usually has a lie-in in our bed from 6-8/9 which is my equivalent of daytime naps & gives me enough snooze to get through the day! I'd rather be more tired & get adult conversation than get a nap but feel like I've been trapped in all day & have no idea what to do with her to entertain her! Bad mummy but it works for me!

Hope everyone has a lovely day.

pudtat Tue 14-May-13 10:17:57

And happy birthday Stormy! Sorry that bit got eaten earlier... Have a fab day.

leniwhite Tue 14-May-13 10:56:31

Happy birthday Stormy grinjust think, once upon a time you were a baby too! Haha wink

DS wanted feeding almost every hour last night. Not making my going out aspirations any more likely because he literally can't be off the boob unless he's had a bottle and I'm only doing that in desperate situations.

If I had family nearer I'd be out a lot, but wandering further than the park (which we do in the sling) especially with the threat of rain seems like more stress than I can take without having had any sleep!

Thinking of going car shopping so then I can drive to local nature reserves etc where it's not crowded and BFing/screaming isn't an issue.

DS has no idea how much mental anguish goes on! He's been all smiles this morning apart from the random moments where he just starts screaming after smiling a second earlier. What does it mean?!

It's like talking to Lassie sometimes - he permanently looks like he's about to speak whilst gesturing wildly but I never know what he wants confused

leniwhite Tue 14-May-13 11:03:18

Oh and it's fire regs with the pram, but plants don't count... If you're an old bitter woman who wants to own the building. How a pram under the stairs is a fire hazard I don't know

vjhist85 Tue 14-May-13 11:07:49

Happy birthday stormy! I hope you have a day of good napping and perfect feeds!

So yesterday was weird... Having only very vaguely catnapped a couple of times in the morning, I took DD into work at 3.30. I was convinced she was going to kick off, she didn't even sleep in the car on the way despite a couple of "I'm tired" shouts. An hour long meeting where she just sat and quietly listened (clearly she finds national curriculum changes fascinating) then a wonderful moment when she shat noisily just at the point where a particularly odious member of senior management started talking. She smiled (and dare I say giggled?) at all the right people, wide awake all the way home. By which point I'm freaking out about witching hour. Still no sleep by bath time, but still very happy...even when getting out of the bath- unheard of. Bit grumbly but that was just because she was disappointed in having a bottle instead of boob and is normal. Up at 2.20 and 5.20 but then we both went back to sleep until 8.45! And now- get this- she's NAPPING on her OWN in her COT. And I'm enjoying a coffee.

Is it a worrying sign that when I made my coffee I caught myself thinking "I wish it was 7.30pm because then this could be wine..."

leniwhite Tue 14-May-13 11:51:55

VJ time means nothing - wine, coffee, what's the difference? wink I jest... (Obviously)

StormyBrid Tue 14-May-13 11:56:01

Thank you, ladies. Birthday going well so far - I have wine, flowers, chocolates, and a couple of Pratchetts. And DD had a proper nap! 8.45 until 10.30! I am astounded. Unexpected side effect of comfort milk, perhaps?

Eigmum Tue 14-May-13 15:22:56

Happy birthday stormy!

Ok well got introduced to Charles who was charming, did my courtesy then we discussed his garden at Highgrove, then he asked as I wasn't a teacher ( it was an education event) was I a banker ( with a laugh) I said no I was an accountant and tapped his shoulder in a jokey way like I was an old friend, we then discussed the merits of good accountants! Apparently my husband plus security were a bit tarn a back by the shoulder pat and I have no idea why I was acting like Charles was an old friend I can only blame my first glass of champagne for a year and the fact I am constantly patting a baby. He must have been ok with it as he chatted to us for a while.

I came home at 11 and baby had finished bottle and was in bed. Totally forgot to war her to feed her and went in at 7.30 to a smiling baby. I won't let that happen again as she isn't big enough yet but what an evening. Can't stop smiling today!
Just catching up on all your news...!

Eigmum Tue 14-May-13 15:47:42

vj with my little bit mummy hugs were and still are super important now ( he is three) but he totally wasn't interested at under 6 months!

Classes can be a good idea but I found the only thing DS got out of them was germs so giving them a miss with DD til we get to 16 weeks and have all our first jabs out of the way. I did baby swimming with DS starting at 17 weeks and he loved it. Huggies do great swim nappies and you put them in baby then put swimsuits on top. We did it pre lunchtime nap and he always slept over 2 hours on swim days at lunch!

WingDefence Tue 14-May-13 19:36:58

Happy birthday stormy - sorry its a bit late.

I feel crap tonight. I'm the most tired I've felt since DD was born. She refused the bottle off DH earlier this evening but I'm not happy with how he does it eg keeps going even when she's upset and she's not yet learnt to take it in her mouth properly. I'd expressed 3 oz for the first time this morning too so I'm guessing its wasted - would it last till tomorrow if she's already had 0.5oz and goes back in the fridge or do I have to bin it?

HV and GP were fine this morning. DD's now 10lb 9oz.
Post natal group was nice too. Just four of us and two of the other three have already got older sons so that's nice.

But one thing they were telling us was about the SIDS risk and sleeping on the sofa with DD raises the risk by 50x. Apparently that even includes daytime naps or the evenings. I thought it was just when you are lying down (say) on the sofa for the night with the baby like cosleeping. Even having her upright in the middle of my chest counts as bad sad

So right now I feel like I can't have a nap with her and she will only really sleep on me or him, in the sling or in the car or buggy and DH can't give me a break by giving her a bottle for me.

Someone cheer me up please?

SoYo Tue 14-May-13 19:59:37

Wing I put the bottle back in the fridge in that case. I'm sure it doesn't fit with ideal guidelines but I've decided it's ok with me! I also do napping with her on my chest on the sofa. I know it's against the guidelines but I've never fallen solidly asleep & every time she stirs I'm wide awake. I know that it's a risk but as far as I can tell the only way for baby to nap that isn't I'd on their cot/basket & DD won't play ball with that so I've had to decide which risks I'm willing to take to keep her & my sanity. I've gone for a couple of hours in bed co-sleeping in the morning (I keep duvet & pillows but just have them as far out of her way as I can) & on my tummy on the sofa. It'll be different for all of us but it doesn't make any of us bad parents!

Leni would buying a cheap ish umbrella fold buggy that lies flat (eBay?) work for you? It's be light enough to carry downstairs with one hand with bubs in sling? As for public BFing, what do you wear? I go for top over vest with one up, one down so not flashing belly & before the first time I latched her on while watching in the mirror so I knew you couldn't see anything, even when she fussed. The only person that sees nipple is you. That may not help at all but I was just trying to think about options. Hope I'm not being annoying.

Eig I can't believe you patted Charlie on the shoulder! Hilarious! Sounds like a good night. Very impressive!

Just took bubs in her sling for a walk with the dog & she screamed the whole way around the block. My DM rang while we were walking & helpfully suggested she might need feeding...if only I'd considered that! I mean she had been fed an hour before, I had the dog with me & was 2mins from home but obviously a good mother would have whipped a boob out then and there confused!

Right, bubs is asleep on my chest, pup's asleep on the sofa so I'm going to catch up on Neighbours my fave guilty pleasure.

WingDefence Tue 14-May-13 20:03:42

Thanks SoYo.

Eig I forgot to say how brilliant you & Charlie being bessie mates sounds!

vjhist85 Tue 14-May-13 20:10:17

I will happily put a bottle of ebm back in the fridge to be used later that evening, but I don't use it the next day-reason you're told not to us that bacteria from their mouth will have got into the bottle and possibly multiplied. But it's probably fine just me being over cautious!

With anti SIDs advice, I've tried to look into the reasons for the advice so I can make my own decision. For example swaddling is not advised, but that's because they can get too hot, so I just made sure I was happy with DD's temperature. Anyone know the reasoning behind the sofa thing? Can you eliminate that risk?

SoYo Tue 14-May-13 20:15:22

VJ the reason behind the sofa thing is that babies are much more likely to get trapped down sides/back or get their airways squashed against cushioned surfaces that stop their breathing than they are on a flat, firm bed mattress.

The other option (& the one I take when I'm downstairs & really bloody exhausted & scared I won't feel her move) is lying on the floor with cushions for pillows.

WingDefence Tue 14-May-13 20:21:02

Yes I've just thought though that the sofa thing is when we sleep as well as DC sleeping, not just when the DC isa slipping on us on the sofa?

My lovely GP told me tonight basically to ignore all the conflicting advice that HVs, MWs, the Internet and books give out and just to go with a mum's instinct and whatever works for us and our families. He told me this before the children's centre staff went through the SIDS risks (which I thought I knew already) but I would do well to heed his advice I think.

I have painful blanched nipples tonight as she won't stop feeding/comfort suckling tonight. I'm going to try to shush & rock her to sleep soon in her basket to try to engineer a break...

SoYo Tue 14-May-13 20:38:04

Wing I've got the same problem tonight. Fingers crossed for both of us! I need a break so that I can produce some more milk if nothing else!

pudtat Tue 14-May-13 20:45:46

I too will put EBM back in the fridge. Also tend to decant smaller amounts into the bottle to give in case he refuses to reduce waste. Can always top bottle up!

Glad I have always got DS to nap in Moses basket or carrycot, v occasionally in sling. Sounds like one less thing for me to worry about, though leaves plenty still!

pudtat Tue 14-May-13 20:50:26

And my nips are killing me today. Don't know why, but really sore. Had a blocked duct yesterday but think that's cleared and doesn't explain other side hurting too! Going to express now and see if that's less painful. confused

WingDefence Tue 14-May-13 20:51:34

Pud, my SdD did sleep downstairs in the basket at first but I guess we slipped into bad habits as DD is so lovely to snuggle! blush Rod meet back etc etc...

Transfer attempt 1 = fail. DD sleeping in my arms now before I try again.

(And there were too many 'tonight' in my previous post. I saw GP this morning, for instance.)

ecofreckle Tue 14-May-13 20:52:27

We had a snorty crap night last night and much the same with dd today. Took her to pharmacist who said we needed doc which seemed bit drastic so rang doc who called us straight back and invited us straight into surgery. When we arrived we were ushered straight through and she was so lovely and thorough and friendly. Dd has a virus, her little heart rate increased as a result. We have cream for rash, eye gel and prescribed calpol which as she's only 7 weeks is given at 1.25ml. Administering all of that at bedtime was pretty hell. If only they could understand that we just want them to be happy and well. Hoping she feels better overnight and that some sleep is on the cards.
pud and Leni I know what you mean about how sad it is that our cuddles can't make them all better and how mind boggling trying to read the communications are when it's grin one second and red faced wail the next. I sometimes think dd misunderstands smiles and what they mean!
wing in a few short months the risks of sids will have passed and you can nap and cuddle with gay abandon. Even on prince Charles' lap. If you are eig ;-) I hope you are feeling a bit more perky? I feel your bottle pain. It's the route to our flexibility so v imp. My dh fecks it up as well so today I interfered and she tolerated the teat happily in her mouth although no sucks yet. We'll plod on with chipping away at the bottle task. Keep us posted how you get on. And...dh used to play for beckenham town. Small world!
eig had a funny vision of your prince patting. He was probably greatly refreshed by some human contact from someone other than Camilla. Sounds like a brill evening. Food any good?
Worc I too have a soft spot for Charlie. I wish his mum would give him the king job. I like his organic farming talking to plants ways. Although not a massive supporter of his blatant infidelity...
plonko north face jacket and boots here too (including on my trip into the city today...shitty rain), maybe we should meet for that walk!
stormy slightly belated happy birthday! What's been the best part of your day or is that still to come?
Last night I was reflecting on my day (good, lots of naps, caught up with people face to face, got fresh air/exercise) and pondered how today might pan out as the diary was totally blank. So I text one of the nct girls with a dog and suggested a walk. She was at a loose end too so we met, walked, exchanged baby and non baby related tales, had a coffee and passed some time happily. I then caught up with this thread and it made me think about how I'm choosing to wade through these challenging newborn days and whether I'm a bit tragic to have immersed myself in 'motherland'. On further reflection I'm really pleased that we did nct (I'm the most ancient at 37 so I fit the demographic! Although justifying cost was hard) because I have met (5 out of 8) people that are interesting to spend time with and crucially who are available. Most of my other friends are at work or distant so having this bank of people to call on has been a life saver. I'm not a maternal type and the thought of endless baby related socialising pre birth was pretty yuck. But we do have something in common (babies) and much more besides. All of us here on this thread seem to enjoy endlessly discussing our babies with one another so why not transfer that to the non-virtual world? Just as enjoyable! I wonder why some people enjoy mumsnet but are turned off by spending time face to face with other mummies. Guess what I'm saying is don't be afraid of baby networks in the real world because if you're on this thread you already enjoy sharing with others in a similar boat and a post natal coffee morning is just the same. But with less biscuits!

WingDefence Tue 14-May-13 21:13:56

Transfer fail again leading to me and DH having a screamy shouting match. I feel like i'm doing everything wrong compared to DS who was a dream. So upset.

pudtat Tue 14-May-13 21:28:07

Oh wing, hang in there! You're not doing it wrong, it's just she can't talk yet and prob wouldn't really know what she wants even if she could. Hope your night improves.

Jabs for us today and seems to have left little one sleepy. On plus side bedtime was easy, on downside he hasn't eaten so well today and we have weigh in tomorrow. Am quite worried about it. Still, we shall see...

ecofreckle Tue 14-May-13 21:32:05

Wing you're not doing anything wrong. The children are just different to one another. Which I imagine is very trying. Is it wine o'clock?
Feeling shitty here too. Maybe there's something in the air today x

SoYo Tue 14-May-13 22:16:04

MiniYo was yawning & eye-rubbing at 7.30 so decided to try to put her to bed so I could have a bit of peace to snuggle with the dog on the sofa with a glass of wine.....still trying only now I'm trying in the hope of me going to bed too. We've had 3 feeds all with epic transfer fails & screaming fits. I even left her crying for 8mins to see if she'd nod off but it made no difference to her & made me feel awful. The poor dog has gone to bed with no cuddles & I could swear she's covering her ears with her paws!

Eco I agree about meeting people, it seems like some twee idea of earth mothers sitting around initially but actually is good for my sanity & most of them are very normal. Plus it's been my excuse today to have pastries for brekkie, costa lunch & then a slice f white choc, raspberry & amaretto gateaux (amazing). Probably need to meet people a bit less or ill be the size of a house!

Wing you're not doing anything wrong, as long as you're feeding, keeping warm & offering cuddles I'm pretty sure they decide when the ready to do the rest, no matter how bloody hard we try!

StormyBrid Tue 14-May-13 23:21:22

Am I the only one who's not fond of Ol' Jug-Ears, then? I must admit I find him very irritating. Possibly because I've yet to come across an inorganic vegetable.

Best part of birthday, I think, was getting out with the man just the two of us. Also, Star Trek was awesome. grin And my dad was impressed with how well DD went to bed, although his swaddling skills are obviously lacking and she started squeaking just before eleven. Am vaguely hoping that, as she normally has awake-milk then sleeps for seven or eight hours, perhaps she'll sleep through until seven? But I'm not holding my breath.