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October 2012... PELVIC FLOORS!

(1000 Posts)
Londonmrss Wed 13-Feb-13 16:47:22

And squeeze!

Mine is a bit rubbish!

Zara1984 Wed 13-Feb-13 17:01:12


Angelico Wed 13-Feb-13 17:12:28

<Marks place. And squeeeeeeeeeeezes> grin

Orenishii Wed 13-Feb-13 17:16:37

I am giving half hearted squeezes because I am fed up. Sick of this winter! Will it never end?

Angelico Wed 13-Feb-13 17:18:56

PS: Interesting thread in BFing and FFing over in Breastfeeding about some interview today about whether BFing is really better... link here

Angelico Wed 13-Feb-13 17:22:27

Guardian article here. It's interesting for sure. I'm glad I was able to persist with BFing but the article is quite timely for me personally because expressing enough is tough and I'm having to begin considering mix feeding for when DD is at creche.

crazypaving Wed 13-Feb-13 18:02:00

my pelvic floor has seriously improved since all the reminders, thanks all!

oh and huffle your tip about standing on tiptoes has saved me on a few occasions - keep meaning to thank you for that!

londonlivvy Wed 13-Feb-13 18:11:33

Hello and squeeze. ..

Comedy half hour of me trying to make a valentines card for df from dd with footprints etc. It is rubbish but hopefully it will make him smile.

hufflepuffle Wed 13-Feb-13 18:12:30

Marking place! Squeeeeeeeze

Sitting in car in driveway in rain like a nobber. DH trying bottle again. The things we do.........

Off to read those links

Thank you Londonmrss!!

WantAnOrange Wed 13-Feb-13 19:01:17

When does the 4 month growth spurt end? Seriously?

Will try to catch up....

Londonmrss Wed 13-Feb-13 19:04:51

ok so I know I'm a nobber and I always go on about how nipple shields saved my life. but huffle / yomping / anyone else wanting their baby to take a bottle- is it worth a try? your baby would be feeding from you directly and the suckling action is the same as breastfeeding directly. but they will be sucking from a teat-like silicone thing which might just get them used to what it feels like. I don't have any evidence that it would work other than my baby is fine with a bottle- but she had to use a bottle before she could bf so that is meaningless. anyway, just a thought.

more of a ramble than a thought.

YompingJo Wed 13-Feb-13 19:36:25

Tried a nipple shield, London. She screamed and refused to latch. I have the world's crossest baby confused. Thank you for the thought though, and for the new thread smile

Woolybob Wed 13-Feb-13 20:02:44

Oooo... Shiny new thread... Good title!

Mikyahrose Wed 13-Feb-13 20:12:15

wantan. I think we're out of the sleep regression. DS has slept like a trooper the last 2 nights. He's 19 weeks and the bad sleep lasted 10-14 days. I thought if would never end and I seriously thought about drop kicking him out the window one night. But, fingers and everything else crossed its on the up. I also put some of it down to wonder weeks. Only just found out about these and it seems that was happening too.

lisbethsopposite Wed 13-Feb-13 20:41:06

Too tired to post long - things better here, colds resolving, sleep improving (it would want to!).

I will be 4 weeks post cyst removal tomorrow so I can swim again!!! Burn settled too. I can see my sanity at the top of the next hill - I'll get there soon.

Yomping I just got baby to take bottle again. This is how we did it.
I booked a nanny for 3 hours (a granny who works as a carer - not formally trained 'nanny'). Prior to that I had asked some family members to help as DH away a lot but they couldn't give it enough time. Massive screamathons and shocked DS and DM.
She (nanny) took baby out for a walk as baby was not hungry when she arrived. Cue relaxed hungry baby an hour later on her return when I was gone from the house - I believe they will not take their first bottle if they think mum ie. the good stuff, is available/around. She reports that he drank it down no problem. I was shock
He last took bottle 4 weeks ago and that was done just for one 24 hr block. Baby has to be hungry but not distressed hungry. We used an avent breast mimic bottle but there are many similar brands. I think it has to be clear that mama is NOT around.
That's what worked for us and I hope it helps you.smile

hufflepuffle Wed 13-Feb-13 20:47:26

Cheers London. DS also severely disliked shield last time I tried. As did my poor feckin nipple....... However that was ages ago (in the life of a 17wk old baby....) and I still have them. I have a bottle, dummy, pump collection fit to stock a village pharmacy. So I shall try if we don't progress!! Good idea!

Whilst I was hiding in car DS took NO milk. In his bath he took 1.5 oz followed by 2 oz in bedroom! He has now fallen asleep on boob after about 2 mins! This is not the feed I wish to phase out but at least he is swallowing the stuff!!!!! I am feeling hopeful.

First you were talking about pushchair? I walk DS in 4 or 5 and when asleep put him down to 2 or 3. I know these seem high but if I don't he lifts head and cranes neck to see out!! I'm using a padded liner so he seems secure. DS is however so v big remember! Met up with friend today with 8 month old. DS def def taller and similar weight!

Angelico Wed 13-Feb-13 21:21:59

On bottles don't forget to change teat if you got ones that came with teats. Someone bought us Tommy Tippee ones and bean refused them at first a few weeks back - till someone pointed out they come with size 1 teats. They were just too slow and frustrating. With size 2 teats she guzzles the bottles down.

hufflepuffle Wed 13-Feb-13 21:52:07

I'm sticking with newbirn size ones as I've got a slow let down and the bottles which dripped fast seemed to choke him! But when I get definite success (hark at me, if, not when!) I assume I'll move up to appropriate size? But he's a major fast sucker. That's why I liked medela, he had to work and could take breaks. But he not interested in those now.

Too many feckin variables............! Easier bloody bf!! (Changed days Huffle, changed days!)

Angelico Wed 13-Feb-13 21:59:29

My let down is like a fire hose in the mornings but thankfully slows down after first feed of the day grin

Beccus Wed 13-Feb-13 22:02:12

yes, huffle, those r the ones. dp does the bottles here & how he laughed when i showed him the cup the dentist gave us. i can't really see it working, either. apparently cups with lids r ok as long as they dont have a no drip valve...the sucking buggers up the development of their speech muscles, apparently. one of the other mums said her dd1 used the 'illegal' valve type and had no problems. babybeccus also likes an easy bottle, no fancy medela bottles for her, what with their nasty hard working teats...

hufflepuffle Wed 13-Feb-13 22:20:32

Buggeration. The 2 cups I bought are non drip. So they r no good then?? Not wanting to give a young child a cup that isn't non drip this early, they have no comprehension. FFS!!!! More stuff to add to the unused pile!! Right. Bottles better bloody succeed.

Night all!

Angelico Wed 13-Feb-13 22:24:25

Beccus DD liked the Medela one early on but recently was like hmm - too much like hard work grin

Any suggestions for good cups with lids? I got a Tommy Tippee one but although it has a spout it is free flowing so have visions of the bean pouring stuff everywhere.... Need a good 'first' cup with lid.

smileyhappymummy Wed 13-Feb-13 22:43:30

Right, am going to phone GP tomorrow and ask for an appt for baby. This is getting ridiculous. Vomiting god knows how many times a day - at least 20 - often curdled, acidy smelling vile milk, now increasingly screaming and arching her back during and after feeds, 2 hr screamathon yesterday afternoon and of course the nightly 1am to 4am scream. I know or suspect at least GP will be reluctant to prescribe anything (based on previous experience with them) but am going to go and ask for either ranitidine or omeprazole (both anti reflux drugs) or a referral to paeds. Tried gaviscon but as much use as a chooclate teapot - nightmare to get it into her and then puked it back immediately. When it was just the vast quantities of washing generated I could cope (sort of!) but more and more she seems in pain and we are just not coping well with so little sleep (and it's not good for her either). Feel better for having made the decision.
Sorry, this is all me, me me again. Off to bed now to await the next waking.

Beccus Wed 13-Feb-13 23:01:17

huffle, i wouldn't worry too much about the valve issue. even if my dp was happy to try a cup instead of a bottle, i dont think babybeccus has the headcontrol yet to manage a cup. we will be persisting with bottles.for now. if your cups work for u and u feel a non valve one would be manageable & practical, u can always get one later. if sucking from bottles and valved cups were really that bad, i would expect to see lots more kids with slurred speech and more general awareness about this! angelico, sorry, no suggestions re cups.

Angelico Wed 13-Feb-13 23:49:10

Smiley a hug. That sounds horrendous sad Hope you get some joy with GP tomorrow thanks

Bit worried: Bean had big long sleep at creche today, and has slept through instead of waking for last feed. All sounds good... except this was the exact same set of conditions last week when she set the monitor off with v deep sleep / shallow breathing sad Hope we don't get a repeat tonight. Might go and poke her a bit confused

Poor you Smiley, you've been having such a hard time for ages now. It sounds so stressful and tiring, no idea how you're managing work as well. Definitely a good idea to go to the docs, and refuse to budge until they do something!

Sympathies to those with bottle refusers. I'm so eternally grateful we don't have this problem, as I'd have gone insane recently without a few hours to myself at the weekend. Really hope you all find a resolution soon.

Thanks for the new thread London! Speaking of pelvic floors, has anyone used one of those toners? Wondering whether its worth getting one when I'm back in the UK. Not having any problems really, just thought I might get ahead of the game for the next one. wink

DS had his 2nd round of jabs yesterday. He was a bit sleepy and clingy afterwards so we had a nice cuddly afternoon on the sofa.

Been meaning to say, we got a Jumperoo a couple of weeks ago and it's great for sleep! Took him a few days to figure out how to bounce, but since then he totally knackers himself out on it. Have to watch him though, I think sometimes he doesn't know how to stop and it gets a bit much. Hopefully this is the start of more activity leading to more sleep, makes far more sense than this overtired business.

YompingJo Thu 14-Feb-13 04:00:16

AIBU to be seriously hacked off with my little person for not being able to wait JUST A NOBBING MINUTE for something? Seriously. She is on the ball enough to recognise that a room in someone else's house is not her bedroom, and to refuse to go to sleep in it even though she is sleepy and she is her own swaddle with her own blanket and lying on a t shirt that smells of me, ...and yet when she wakes in the night and we go through exactly the same routine we go through every single effing time, she cannot recognise that this means milk is imminent and therefore she could actually stop shrieking.

Also, her latch is now totally shit and she just pretty much sucks my nipple. Except for when she uses her gums. I can't do anything about it because every time I relatch her she pulls her head back again until she is perched on the nipple. So I have to put up with it. But it is uncomfortable sad. It is also highly ironic that I waited so long to try a bottle because I didn't want to make her latch worse than it was, and she has made it worse herself and won't even take a bottle. And I am wondering how we are ever going web her when the time comes if she can't cold with anything in her mouth that's not a boob and will barely swallow bm from a dropper and slid out evening else? How will she cope with food?

This is a bit ranty because I'm cross with her (and fed up with night wakenings now, the novelty has well and truly worn off after 16 weeks, and I KNOW she is capable of going 5, 6 or 7 hours without milk over night as she has done it a few times before so why does it not happen more frequently?) but in all seriousness, what do we do if feeding becomes too painful for me but she still won't take a bottle? And what happens to my nipples when a tooth comes through which, judging by her teething related screams, may well be imminent? They say babies don't use their teeth when bf but what about babies with a rubbish latch like my one?

Gah. The shit stuff is outweighing the good stuff at the moment. And DH is ill and being completely pathetic and I have no energy left to be sympathetic or nice, I just want to tell him to stop being so wet!

Why can't things just go right? My baby could latch well and sleep better and scream less when given medicine and not mind a bottle sometimes, DH could man up about being ill, I could be a millionaire model with Johnny Depp and Eddie Izzard on speed dial... it's not to much to ask...

Hope everyone else is having a better night. Much love to the October 2012 Massive and hope you get in OK at the docs, smiley. We are on Omeprazole, it is a bugger to administer if you are ebf (yet another thing she spits out, mostly) so I haven't seen much effect yet but if silent reflux is causing our problems, they are not anywhere near as bad as yours and you probably have a less ridiculous baby so you'll hopefully see results.

YompingJo Thu 14-Feb-13 04:04:29

*wean, not web,
cope, not cold
spits, not slid.

Also (yes, I have still more moaning to do!) she flails her arms around and hits me in the face when feeding, which is nice. Why am I doing this, again?

smileyhappymummy Thu 14-Feb-13 04:41:13

Hi yomping no you aren't being unreasonable, middle of the night screaming when they are getting what they want anyway is very frustrating!
Latch sounds painful, can you see bf counsellor at all, any cafes / drop ins where you are? Much sympathy....

smile4me Thu 14-Feb-13 05:45:52

Yay for the PELVIC FLOOR reminder grin I definitely reckon it's helping, although i might still pee when I cough blush

Another total bottle refuser here... Have been getting DH to try but she just gives him the WTF is that look hmm and won't suck. I have a number 2 teat but was thinking about making the hole bigger as she's really impatient and my let down is like a hose! Have been thinking i'd just give up and wait till she can use a cup (luckily I don't have to go back to work for a while yet unlike some of you poor ladies!) And yomping yup we also have feed for a few sucks, look up and smile and poke tongue out... repeat! Takes forever!

squid I am also reading the politics of breastfeeding (and have just ordered pharma from the library!) and read milk, money and madness (along the same lines)... It makes me a bit mad I read these things why? but it did talk about some legendary wet nurses who were still breastfeeding at 85! Nipples of rubber I reckon grin

smiley How did you get on with appt for reflux? I'm thinking the same thing with DD, total meltdowns increasing in frequency to daily and back arching when feeding, I can cope with the constant spew (even if it does smell vile) but she seems so miserable! I don't really get how it can suddenly be painful after 4 months of being OK though confused

smileyhappymummy Thu 14-Feb-13 06:11:18

Hi smile going to phone them today so will let you know!

Woolybob Thu 14-Feb-13 07:28:05

Good luck at the drs smiley, a mum at the children's centre was saying her daughter was waking hourly but since started ranitidine she's a whole new baby. Heartburn in pregnancy was bad enough, would not want to inflict on a tiny baby!

yomping rant away if it helps - does sound like you could use some rl bf help thou? Is there a peer supporter group near you?

About cups - the main problem with the valved type as with bottles is that babies will suck rather than sip. This means the liquid is in contact with the teeth a lot longer so if it's juice in there it'll more likely cause decay. That's why the advice is to encourage drinking from free flow as early as possible. It's messier but so is weaning generally! Also just have milk or water as a drink as long as possible, especially between meals. So short term use of the valved cups if they just have milk in to ease the transition shouldn't cause too much bother (especially if no teeth yet wink )

bella2012 Thu 14-Feb-13 08:35:13

Oh smiley that is so so tough. I feel for you so much. You must be at the end of your tether after all of that. I really hope the go is helpful.

so sorry to hear you are having such a hard timeswitching to bottles huffle and yomping. So glad you started this early huffle, so hopefully you will have it cracked before you go back to work. How are you feeling about that btw?

I have to go to my little boy's playgroup today for a stay and play session which will be interesting, but after that I am getting my hair cut for the first time in a donkeys yonk.i am so excited! We have an m&s valentines meal deal for tonight so going to have a date night at home with our little gooseberry baby no doubt bless him. Anyone braving an actual out of the house date?

crazypaving Thu 14-Feb-13 08:38:33

smiley god you poor thing. don't know how you're still upright, let alone working. you're a true trooper. does your older dd get woken in the night? hope the doctor is sympathetic and helpful. ranitidine smells like nail varnish remover confused

angelico those tommee tippee cups are perfect first cups. when babies start weaning you just have to accept that mess is going to happen! it's all part of their learning. enjoy wink

orange <whispers> at 19wks today I think we maybe possibly perhaps might be coming out the other side of the 4 month bastard sleep nonsense <grovels to sleep gods and begs not to jinx me now>. we've had 3 nights of waking 2 times to feed and going back down after, not always immediately to sleep but eventually. last night he woke 3 times but didn't get up for the day til 7am shock shock shock I had insomnia to make up for it hmm that should appease the sleep gods, right hmm hmm hmm

we've been long-term-lent another tripp trapp for ds2! I'm so happy cos I think they're ace but we were going to struggle to scrape the money together even for an eBay one. now ds1 and ds2 have his n his matching highchairs!!! grin still 2m to go thank god but sat him in it yesterday and he thought it was amazing. looked hilarious, ds1 was roaring with laughter and exclaiming 'really sited!!' (excited)

plumbers coming today to finally sort our leak out hopefully by digging my house up. sob. pls keep your fingers crossed that it's straightforward and the insurance company pay up...

on the plus side I've lost about half a stone in 2wks with weight watchers! so chuffed!

FirstTimeForEverything Thu 14-Feb-13 09:28:29

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Bella, sounds like a nice evening. I love the idea of a gooseberry baby!
We were going to have a date this weekend, quite a big deal as it would be the first time we left DS with anyone else, but now MIL can't babysit so it's postponed til next weekend. All 3 of us will go out on Saturday instead...romantic. hmm

First, hope it all goes well at the hosp today. Sounds, umm, unpleasant.
We love the Jumperoo too!

So after dodging naps all day, DS has just fallen asleep on me. It's 6:45, way too close to bed time. What do I dooooo??

smileyhappymummy Thu 14-Feb-13 10:01:07

GP appt booked for Monday afternoon. Fingers crossed.

OctoberOctober Thu 14-Feb-13 10:05:44

smiley hope u get some helpful advice (and medicine!) from the GP to aid with the reflux. Someone in our nct group had similar issues and had to really fight with GP but baby has transformed on ranitidine. So hard that often we have to jump up and down with health professionals when we should actually be getting support from them.

Does anyone else sometimes find all the mum and baby / toddler groups a bit exhausting making small talk with other mums? or am I just being an unsociable cow? I think it is partly worse due to most of the ones I go to being toddler groups and a lot of the mums already know each other as sahm rather than on mat leave, and also I'm always trying to keep an eye on both ds's so find new conversations a bit tricky.

Got mum and baby yoga this morning, the only thing I do exclusively with ds2 so should try to make an effort. And also get out of pajamas.

crazypaving Thu 14-Feb-13 10:11:25

October I find it so hard, keeping an eye on both boys whilst trying to think of interesting things to say. or just not sound like a complete idiot. but have never been in my element in social situations like that. it sucks sad

Zara1984 Thu 14-Feb-13 10:19:03

Smiley glad you've got doc appt.

October yes I find it exhausting. There's a mum and baby group I should be going to shortly but was debating whether I should stay in PJs and assemble Ikea furniture for nursery :S but the group is literally 20m from my front door so I should go. I am determined to get out the house just once a day even. My seriously fucked up mother never used to leave the house during the daytime (ever) and I'm sure it helped speed up the process of making her angrier and more bitter than she already was confused My number 1 goal is to NOT be like my toxic abusive mother, so out of the house I must go! When in need if small talk I ask other mums how their babies are sleeping, how they started them on solids, what they do for a job, what nurseries are they looking at etc.

Y y to those with bottle struggles to make it clear that mama is not around. By way of comparison with a fully FF baby, DS will often play silly buggers if someone else is feeding him while I'm at home. Often then I have to take over to get him to settle and finish his bottle. But if I've gone out and DH or someone else is looking after him, I guarantee he always drains his bottles with no problem. Sometimes if the feed is soon after I've left he dicks around, but if it's an hour or later after I've gone, he behaves himself!

Happy Valentines' Day, Nobbers! DS gave me 2 poo-filled nappies before 9am as a present. But I got a shag last night from DH grin

Yomping please try give yourself a little treat today, you deserve it!

squidkid Thu 14-Feb-13 10:35:40

I find the groups a bit exhausting too. My yoga one (which is today) is a bit better because I went to the pregnancy yoga class so I know some of the girls (though funnily enough I always felt too shattered/braindead to make proper conversation when pregnant... but we talk now)
I go to Baby Sensory as well which is a GREAT class for the babies but I find the mums tiring. Or I feel stupid/frumpy/incompetent/etc because they seem rather polished and opinionated.
Some days are better than others.
If a class is a bit crap and I'm feeling stupid I just leave promptly at the end and enjoy the walk home, etc.
Now Jess is older she is getting a lot out of them so that's a good motivation. I view it like this
1. it's good to get out the house
2. it's good stimulation for jess
3. I might accidentally make a friend
4. It's exercise (both my classes are over an hour's walk away)

Zara I think you are completely right about getting out the house to stop yourself becoming toxic... my boyfriend's mum is like this and she is exhausting and miserable.

Hope everyone has a nice day! We dont' really celebrate valentines day but we had some lovely naked family snuggles all together this morning, lovely.

Cheesymonster Thu 14-Feb-13 11:40:35

I didn't go to baby massage this morning. It's the last one, it's pissing with rain, DD had her injections yesterday so she's got sore legs and I just couldn't be bothered. oops. Plus the teacher said something last week that really annoyed me. She was talking about baby development and how they don't realise they're a separate entity until they're about a year old. They think they're part of you. How interesting I thought. Then she said "that's why they scream when you put them down, it feels like you've ripped their arm off". Well my face must have dropped because she then said "you can put them down obviously, that's just what it's like for your baby emotionally". Well that's just awesome! How to make a mum feel even more guilty. If she'd said that a couple of months ago when I was really suffering from PND I'd have been devastated. So this week I just thought fuck it I'm not going back! Roll on spring so I can take DD out for nice long walks in the park.

Zara1984 Thu 14-Feb-13 12:06:45

So glad I went to baby group this morning. Was awkward at the start and i contemplated leaving but then I met fellow lawyer and a marketing exec and we talked about traditional concepts of feminism, work and motherhood. And shared battle tales of our shitty bf experiences (at the same hospital). It was brilliant. I'm such a nerd, I know, but I loved it!

OctoberOctober Thu 14-Feb-13 13:12:57

zara that sounds like much more interesting conversation than the usual stuff at baby groups! I went to yoga but didn't talk to anyone, it was pretty quiet but that suited my mood fine.

I am sitting in Starbucks having had lunch and on iPad with SLEEPING baby!!
Couldn't find my phone before leaving, hope it is not in load of washing I put on before leaving house...

lisbethsopposite Thu 14-Feb-13 14:04:20

Cherry thanks for tip re skin cream - I eventually gave in and started on the steroid cream (1% hydra-cortisone). I literally had his hands gloved for all but a few mins per day, with socks and I was afraid I would impede his development. He is now on day 6, being applied twice a day - think I can only use for 7 consecutive days Can any of the doctors on here tell me if there is any long term ill effects to this?

In terms of bad moods - I blame lack of sleep. Everything annoys me.
Rant alert!
Last Saturday DH was home so after DS had had his porridge we were organised enough to get out for breakfast. I order the full fry as DS will eat sausages etc off my plate. We are all happily eating away when nobber waitress says, 'we have lollipops for all children who eat all their food'. Cue 2yr old calling 'lol-pop' for next 5 mins and no more breakfast! 2yr olds don't do delayed gratification hmm. I got over it as DS had eaten porridge at that point as well as some sausage.
In the evening we went out again for our tea/dinner. The baby meal consisted of a main course (pasta bolognaise), a drink (water) and dessert - they ask you to order it at the start and I ordered a smoothie. They serve the Innocent cartons. DS did not look at his dinner but was happily eating steak and chips off of DH's plate when waitress drops the smoothie in the middle of the table. End of dinner. Me angry angry angry End of tip too!!

Londonmrss Thu 14-Feb-13 14:15:57

am I the only one who still hasn't been to any mum and baby groups?

OctoberOctober Thu 14-Feb-13 15:56:38

Shit, shit, shit. Merrily gave DS bottle whilst enjoying lunch out today and got home to discover another bottle in the bag. One of them had been there for at least a day, no idea which one I fed DS confusedconfusedconfused

Poor thing, he is going to be so ill if it was the old one. Stupid stupid me.

Zara1984 Thu 14-Feb-13 17:32:57

If you gave him the old one he might have refused to take it cos it would've tasted off? If he's not sick by now you could be in the clear! No guarantee he would definitely get sick from it anyway, it's like if you ate a yogurt that had been in your bag a day or two IYSWIM?

Remember to make sure all bottles are accounted for at the end of the day when you're making more!! So easy to get muddled up xxx

Am sure DS will be fine

hufflepuffle Thu 14-Feb-13 18:22:18

Sorry..... Beyond catch up, too many. Smiley I hope hope hope you can get treatment and or referral. This is just going on so long. Poor you and poor baby. And anyone else still with reflux. It is hideous for you.

Zara and October. Do you make some bottles in advance then?? The whole getting temp right and making each one as you need it seems hard work. Hate the term 'didn't do mine any harm' but really, can you not bend the make it fresh rule sometimes??

Not that I'm there yet..........!

Hiding in car again. Can't be arsed driving away. Had planned DH to put DS to sleep (never done yet) and me to be gone before he woke. Didn't happen. So I've left just before feed commenced. Don't think will work.

Off to open and check post! Bet neighbours think we've fallen out.......!

hufflepuffle Thu 14-Feb-13 18:24:00

London I've been to massage and yoga but no mums and toddlers ones. I am irrationally nervous and afraid of them incase they all see how shit I am at this!

hufflepuffle Thu 14-Feb-13 18:32:22

It worked!!!!!!!!!! It worked!!!!!!!!!

DH gave him 200ml FFS but yay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Zara1984 Thu 14-Feb-13 18:53:24

Woohoo!!! So glad it worked Huffle!

Right, so with making bottles. Defo make them up in advance and keep them in the back of the fridge for up to 24 hours. This is what we've always done. We make the next day's feeds up when DS has gone to bed. World Health Organisation sez it's ok , so it's fine. Yes I know the formula box says to make each one fresh but you will go demented if you do that, or spend ridiculous amounts on the cartons!

WantAnOrange Thu 14-Feb-13 19:03:13

crazy DD is 19 weeks as well so let's hope she moves on soon. I'm knackered!

I'm in a right strop about PILs behaviour. Today, DH mentioned that we had got DS some new school shoes and FIL said "Oh, I was going to do that". And, at the weekend they showed up with a bag of school trousers from M&S. WTF? I still can't fathom why DH said "ok", instead of "why?". AIBU or are they just being nobbing patronising now. I can provide school uniform for my own kid FFS! DH doesnt get why I'm cross and thinks they are just "trying to be helpful". hmm

Mikyahrose Thu 14-Feb-13 19:35:09

lisbeth. I'm using hydrocortisone morning and night and was prescribed something called 'doublebase' to use as often as possible throughout the day. In 3 days his skin is amazing. Not a spot of eczema. And it was all over him Monday morning.

Londonmrss Thu 14-Feb-13 19:45:22

Wantan I can see why you're pissed off- is a little patronising. But they probably are just trying to be helpful and they don't realise how it comes across.
Huffle, yey for the bottle-taking minihuffle!
October, any puking yet? Hope all is ok.

Moving day on Saturday so I'm trying to pack everything while my husband is at the new house building the furniture. I hate moving and I still think the world would be a better place if there was no such thing as estate agents. Or any agents for that matter. Or banks. Or Tories. Or Rupert Murdoch. Although I guess he is a Tory. But I digress...

How do I not let moving completely destroy any sense of routine and security for LO? I'm planning to take her out for a walk while the flat is emptied into a van, then we'll all drive to new house and I'll go for another walk while the van is emptied into the new house. Naps will go to shit and who the fuck knows what will happen to feeding, but I just don't want her to feel to unsettled by being in a completely new place surrounded by boxes.

smileyhappymummy Thu 14-Feb-13 20:10:04

lisbeth hydrocortisone is v mild steroid so don't worry about using but I think if baby wasn't improving after 7 days treatment I'd want to see again and review. Basically eczema treatment should be regular emollient like double base (or we've got epaderm) and lots of it then little bits of steroid cream to manage inflamed flare ups. Soap substitutes for bath also useful.
huffle woohoo for baby huffle! Re expressing bra thing still can't get pm to work on here can I message you my address on Facebook group please?
Had a nice day today with friend and her kids and had some more rolls and big grins / chuckles from baby smiley, reminds me of just how cool she really is! Just trying to settle her then planning m and s dine in meal before next sleepless night - but feel more positive now. Also love seeing my big one with her, they just adore each other and dd1 gets baby's biggest grins.

smile4me Thu 14-Feb-13 20:21:11

yomping rant away grin re teeth worries... DD has pretty crap latch, probably partly cos I have quite flat nipples, sucks on nipple and small amount of areola or just nipple on a bad day. No problems with teeth so far... could feel them scratching a bit for a couple of days, but seems to have disappeared now. IKWYM about the impatient shrieking too!

Angelico Thu 14-Feb-13 20:32:15

Smiley glad you have an appt!

Bella enjoy the M&S meal for 2 grin (Tried to get one earlier but couldn't face fighting through the crowd of women with buggies and a mad gleam in their eyes... wink Also our local one has no off license so no cava, boo hiss!

FirstTime hope the probe thing went okay <winces and hands over thanks > You've inspired me to get our jumperoo out and put it together at the weekend.

Cherry meant to say the 100 day ceremony thing sounds lovely, especially tiny cute baby kimono. One thing I loved about Japan - they do great ritual!

Crazy thanks - will use the cup and just accept the madness! I'm a slovenly housekeeper anyway so no idea why idea of bean's mess makes me crazy confused Also contemplating Tripp trapp chair because love the idea of them growing with bean. Have heard mixed reviews of them.

Wantan I wouldn't be offended, I would just grab the clothes and run grin Seriously though, they probably mean well. We haven't been able to buy DD a bloody thing so far, we got so many clothes as presents and I refuse to spend more money on them. We do have one totally hilarious... how can I put this ... outfit of questionable taste grin It's so awful I actually kind of love it grin Going to put it on her at home to get photo for posterity but probably won't let her out of house in it unless I can find an 80's theme party for babies.

Cheesy that woman sounds bonkers. Bean is quite happily playing on her mat, ignoring us and chirruping at the elephant. She doesn't strike me as a child in emotional agony! Totally see what you mean about how that could make someone feeling vulnerable feel ten times worse. Again though, she probably didn't mean anything by it.

Baby groups I love them - but I'll talk to anyone. Best thing to do is admire babies, ask how old they are etc, comment on something cool they are doing. Conversation tends to follow. Let's face it, we all love being told about our bean's fabulousness! grin

Huffle hurrah for the bottle! Got a couple of Variflow teats today to add to the size 2's.

London can you set up DD's room first? Put out changing stuff / toys / travel cot type stuff to give her mini base full of cosy familiar stuff? Good luck with move!

Boobs finally seem to have caught up with expressing. Going to express five oz every day and that means 4 non-creche days (Fri-Mon) I can freeze stuff.

And also after my fears last night about bean / deep sleep she decided to wake 4 fecking times just to prove how UNDEEPLY she was sleeping... hmm

hufflepuffle Thu 14-Feb-13 20:42:18

Thanks Zara! I did read that last night but just wanted to be sure I wasn't being a lazy bitch behind the times!

Going to stick wuth ready made for day or 2 just incase it tastes different.

Smiley no probs, message away. I had forgotten about......

Wantan not knowing your family in some ways they sound lovely and generous but obviously is not as simple as that!! You need to calmly explain to DH that you are annoyed by this continued practice and he needs to politely tell them you can manage perfectly well!! Easy in type, isn't it?! Bugger, families are so difficult.

London very best of luck and good spirits for Saturday! Not looking forward to our own move. Mostly concerned about disturbing whatever night sleep routine we have by then. But as DH is the builder and we are already over 6 months behind I'm not holding breath.......

October hope DS is ok confused

So DS had 7oz at 6pm and had now drained a 2hour overfull boob in 8 minutes. Not seen him look so drink since about a month old!! Oh god i will panic all night now! 5oz maximum tmrw DH!!! We are currently 8-9 feeds a day so I think that's plenty.

Cheesy what nonsense!!!!!!!!! Stupid cow, fragile mums don't need such crap!!!!

Lisbeth I once worked in a practice where kids got lollipops after had eye exam. Mums were horrified. I refused to give them!! Telling them about it before they even eat is just stupid!! Daftness Indeed

Yomping you ok pet??

Nice early night for me. DH in spare room. Romance is not dead........!

lisbethsopposite Thu 14-Feb-13 22:02:18

Thanks for that Smiley. smile I'm using epaderm ... but must say had eased up - from 20 times a day to 2. Skin not fully resolved after the week but I'll try to be more thorough with the epaderm and return to Dr. if not good after weekend.

BTW Thanks to whoever on here mentioned Puckababy. My little Houdini was getting out of every swaddle and I had bought several. I was sleeping with my arm thrown across him. Puckababy saved my life - and his.

This thread reminds me of boarding school - not an uncommon form of second level school in 80s Ireland - we are all doing the same thing at the same time. There it was rise, mass, breakfast, chores, school, lunch.... For us it is pregnancy woes, which I can hardly remember now, labour prep, labour recovery, the start of the love affair, the dip in the love affair etc.
Whatever one is doing or experiencing, someone else has had it too.
Must say I personally never had the reflux issues but on the other hand, I think I'm the only one that had a cyst like a gobstopper in their vagina hmm
TBH I'd prefer the cyst - I lost no sleep to it.
Night all, sleep well beans - and that is an order!

OctoberOctober Thu 14-Feb-13 22:12:08

DS seems fine, thank fuck. Although thinking about it, I may have thrown 2 fresh bottles in the bag during the protracted course of leaving the house. Not had any issue like this before, I don't tend to leave old bottles lying around so I am hoping this wasn't the case anyway. Still feel bloody stupid though, even though I know it can be a mission leaving the house sometimes. He had the bottle at midday so would have been poorly by now if there was an issue, right? Really hoping we are in the clear.

huffle so that is a good lesson in what NOT to do with bottles... We tend to make 4 up at a time ie the amt that go in the sterilizer, so make bottles roughly twice a day and they are generally kept for upto 12 hours. Making every bottle fresh just isn't feasible and as Zara says, not every country seems to advocate this, in fact I'm not sure where else does -US Oz and NZ all recommend it is safe to refrigerate for upto 24 hrs.

Angelico Thu 14-Feb-13 22:21:29

October glad your DS is okay. The whole not making bottles up thing seems bonkers. At creche DD goes to you have to measure water into bottles, then measure powder into separate container for staff to mix on site. And they're pretty laid back so assuming this is all creches in UK doing same confused Presumably they have to cover themselves in case some numpty has made a bottle up a week earlier and just fired it in.

One of the staff initially refused to take bottle for DD even when I pointed out it was expressed milk and can be kept in fridge for several days, never mind a couple of hours.

Elpis Thu 14-Feb-13 22:49:37

DH and I did not have an enjoyable evening meal.

I cooked (I cook every weeknight) and he complained that he didn't like dishes with large pieces of tomato because they were hotter than the rest of the dish.

I PLAN AND COOK TWELVE VARIED AND NUTRITIOUS MEALS EVERY WEEK that you and your daughter will eat and you have a bloody problem with hot tomato?

But I did not rise to that. No. When the subject of new kitchen chairs came up - ours are falling apart and the covers are a shag to wash, which of course is also my job - I asked if any of the Ikea ones I had suggested had appealed. They had not. What was our budget, I asked. It was double whatever I was prepared to pay.

Ladies, I have just been stripped of my job title. My pre-tax salary is less than a quarter of DH's yet we split bills and childcare. My company is making compulsory redundancies. How the fuck am I supposed to find half of the cost - especially when the cheapest chairs I suggested were rejected by him? I am not being unreasonable, am I? I am so angry.

Elpis Thu 14-Feb-13 22:54:33

Split bills and childcare in half, I mean. Plus when I inherited £190k from my mother I put £170k of it straight into the mortgage. Plus I have had three hours away from my children since September. This is not fair.

He gave me a Valentine's card that said he was looking forward to a time when the most romantic thing about our evenings wasn't bathing the children. Yet another dig at the fact that I want(ed) children more than he did.


smileyhappymummy Thu 14-Feb-13 23:42:25

elpis you are definitely not being unreasonable. That sounds like a shitty evening and your dh is being a nobber. I think you sound like you are being very generous to him (cooking every weeknight - you are superwoman!) and he needs to give a bit more back.
On the subject of kitchen chairs, sounds to me like he should be buying them anyway if he doesn't like the ones thwt fit the budget.
Nobber. Hugs for you (I gather that hugs are un-mnetty but I don't care.)

Angelico Thu 14-Feb-13 23:44:28

Elpis he is a nobber. I am actually angry reading that and will now lie awake feeling angry And tbh if you had posted that over in relationships you'd have people telling you he's financially abusive sad

Since it's Valentine's Day, why don't you offer him a BJ that ends with a bite...? wink

Joking aside I still have the rage on your behalf angry

Happy Valentine's Day all fab bean bakers and raisers. We are awesome thanks

Oh Elpis, I shouldn't comment too much on other people's relationships, but I would've thrown the bloody hot tomato in his face! angry
No, YADNBU - it is not fair. And that card was worse than not getting one at all, really.
Afraid I don't have anything constructive to suggest though. Leave the bastard?! Only kind of joking!
Perhaps, if everything is split down the middle, it should include child care. So if he doesn't physically do it himself, he should pay for someone else to do his share.
Fair enough hmm he didn't want the children, but not sure why you're cooking his meals when he is effectively giving you nothing in return.
Sorry, that doesn't really help you. Wish I could...thanks

Oh, and as for the chairs - just buy the ones you want that are within your budget. What can he do if he doesn't like them?!

bella2012 Fri 15-Feb-13 00:19:42

Ellis I am raging on your behalf. Don't want to make you wish you hadn't shared because I know sometimes it is ok for you to grumble about your man and painful for other people to criticize, but seriously, that is not fair at all. Sending you so so much love. Ah man I am so cross- how can he not take in to account your change I income and the fact that youare LOOKING AFTER HIS CHILDREN??

Yomping how are you now hun? Hope you are having a better night?

Thanks angelico- meal deal was lush! Plus got 8th plate in my Emma Bridgewater collection for my dresser from very thoughtful dh and a love letter. And I got my hair done today for the first time since ds2 and during it ds1 burst in with a bunch of daffodils from him and one from ds2. Do sweet. All sounds so idyllic apart from the fact that at about 9.30 poor little ds1 was sick all over the stairs and keeps being sick every 20 mins. Dh is now sleepingin his room and I am in ours with the baby, running through for every sick bout. Romantic et? Poor little sweetheart. Ah the joys of parenting!

DS just fell rolled over, back to front!grin
Was inspired by Facebook to do proper naked time, pee fountain be damned, and practically the second I put him down (and turned my back to get the camera) he was over. He looked so surprised!
He then proceeded to do it many times, until I remembered to take a video for daddy...confused
[excessively proud mummy emoticon]

hufflepuffle Fri 15-Feb-13 02:14:38

Who mentioned 85yr old wet nurses???? That image has invaded my feckin dreams. Ming Ming Ming.

londonlivvy Fri 15-Feb-13 05:57:31

argh. can't sleep. waiting for DD to wake with boobs like canon balls and a fiery sore throat. too much fretting about wedding planning too. sigh.

elpis that is rubbish. properly rubbish. He might not have wanted more kids but he agreed and thus this is now his responsibility too.

cherry. loving the rolling.

bella. hope sick bug goes away.

Londonmrss Fri 15-Feb-13 07:44:29

elpis yanbu. hiban. That's an acronym I think we need to introduce which means He Is Being A Nobber.

why do costs have to be split in half? surely all money is shared money?

squidkid Fri 15-Feb-13 07:51:28

hufflepuffle There was an 85 year old wet nurse mentioned in the book me and smile4me were reading, The Politics of Breastfeeding. If I remember rightly she celebrated her 85th birthday by demonstrating expressing milk across the room to her great grand kids, or something! Her main lament was that past 75, she could only produce enough milk for one child at a time grin

Elpis - I am sorry. You are not being unreasonable. Relationships really need to adjust when partners earn different amounts (for very good reasons, I might add!)
I have almost commented before on this "well I didn't want to have kids" approach your DH has. I feel really unhappy about it, so god knows how you must feel. Is he going to say this to them as they get older confused
If you don't want kids, the options are 1) don't have them or 2) man the fuck up - not use it as a blackmailing chip every time a disagreement comes up.

I am probably out of line. Big hugs.

We had a good night here, Jess went down easier than usual, amazing food (fried lamb with hummus, I am working my way through a cookbook I was given for Christmas). Jess slept till 4.30am, fine, her usual. Comedy scenes as I asked boyfriend to put the light on as Jess was struggling to relatch at 5am. He did so. About 7am, he suddenly leapt out of bed and put the light on. I was half asleep cuddling Jess, I was like, hmmwhatyoudoing? He was like, you told me to put the light on! Yes... 2 hours ago. Well it made me giggle.

It's a sunny day and I have to wait in ALL DAY for Jess's fucking passport to be delivered. It better come at 9. GRR!

Weekend soon. If the weather holds I'm going to go hiking - not done a proper hike since NOVEMBER! (When Jess was considerably lighter! But I was less fit.)

squidkid Fri 15-Feb-13 07:52:43

Claps for baby Cherry!!
I think they do more stunts when naked grin

squidkid Fri 15-Feb-13 07:58:13

How cute is this. I want to go. I may have to kidnap my nephew.

Teddy Bear Hospital

I can't wait to have an older child.

squidkid Fri 15-Feb-13 07:59:12

Oops that was last year's link, but same thing is happening tomorrow...

I want to go to the teddy bear hospital, what a great idea!
I'd also like to come to yours for dinner Squid.

I wonder if an 85 year old's milk taste different from a 30-something year old's?!

Love the new acronym, London, I think it might get a lot of use.

Londonmrss Fri 15-Feb-13 10:14:01

as I'm moving house tomorrow, it would be unreasonable not to eat absolutely everything we have in today, right?

Angelico Fri 15-Feb-13 10:21:30

Gah. Another multiple wake up last night. Help!!!

Problem as I see it... a) bean gets totally distracted during day feeds so has started taking snack feeds all the time. I've even tried feeding under giant muslin, creating tent effect and she pulled it down to see what was going on. b)Bean therefore needs more calories at night but keeps only having short feeds and then conking out - so wakes a few hours later. Tried to wake her last night to make her eat more and she was having none of it hmm

Is there such a thing as 20 week growth spurt?! She's lying in cot practising her chat (which consists of some bwa-bwa-ga-ooh interspersed with the screeching of cats). She is full of energy. I on other hand am half dead! confused

squidkid Fri 15-Feb-13 11:04:22

Absolutely Londonmrss, and good luck with the move. xx

Londonmrss Fri 15-Feb-13 11:08:13

Angelico, my only way to feed my very easily distracted bean is to
-feed only when she has just woken up from naps during the day. Literally, the second she stirs. Sleepy feeds are always much easier because she doesn't fully open her eyes until she's finished feeding.
- feed only lying down in a dark and silent room. As soon as there is any noise or anything going on, the feed is over for her.

Or you could maybe express and bottle feed a couple of times if she is more likely to take a good amount that way? Sorry if you've already tried all this...

Angelico Fri 15-Feb-13 11:44:04

Thanks London. She loves her bottles and has one a day now of expressed milk. Just googled 20 week growth spurt and there was a MN thread from ages back came up - can apparently go on until 6 months confused but a lot of people found it passed in a week or so. I'll give it a week and if no improvement will try her on a bottle of that hungry baby formula ON!!! She just dozes off again after a couple of mins whereas I then have to go back to sleep.

Hope the move goes well - make sure you keep the kettle handy at the other end so you can grab a brew smile

crazypaving Fri 15-Feb-13 12:19:28

I am having a bad mother day. just one of those days where ds1's constant, repetitive stream of crap chat makes me want to scream and ds2 thrashing about in the sling makes me want to drop kick him as far away as possible. I want peace and quiet and nobody to bloody well touch me!!! argh!!!!!

so I left ds2 screaming his guts out on his mat whilst ds1 chatted crap endlessly over lunch sad I could cope with one, not two, and I can't leave ds1 alone sad god I'm a shit mum sometimes.

by the time I picked up ds2 he was beside himself. feeding him now and he keeps choking cos his breathing is all panicky sad sad sad sad

and ds1 is up in his cot playing with a bloody annoying toy which sings a stupid song. I normally have a rule of no toys in bed, especially as he needs to go to sleep quickly as we have a Dr appointment to go to this afternoon, but he had a tantrum when I tried to remove it and I just don't have the energy.

that song over the baby monitor is going to turn me into some kind of maniac in a minute. arghhhh over and over again......arghhhhhhh

Londonmrss Fri 15-Feb-13 12:35:51

and breathe crazy. you are not a shit mum, you are a brilliant mum. we all have these moments and most of us only have one little shit little one to deal with. hope you manage to get them down for naps so you can have a little break to breathe. you are doing a great job love.

Beccus Fri 15-Feb-13 12:42:51

crazy, u r not a bad mummy. anyone looking after more than one is a hero & in dire need of a break from time to time. hugs

Angelico Fri 15-Feb-13 12:48:39

Crazy as others have said - you are not a bad mum. You are a human being juggling the (frankly impossible) demands of looking after 2 children at the same time! Another hug here x

crazypaving Fri 15-Feb-13 12:57:16

thank you for being so kind guys. I just don't know how other people do it - I struggle some days so badly, have little patience and quite worrying anger issues. other days I can breeze through. I feel very alone sometimes.

Orenishii Fri 15-Feb-13 13:05:22

crazy you're doing the best thing you can do...giving voice and air to your struggles and worries. I also think it's important to tell your children how you feel, even if they have no comprehension. It seems to help - I regularly say to DS "I'm feeling very stressed and angry right now. I know t's not really your fault...but I still feel these things, and I guess that's OK...you get inexplicably angry too..." I dunno, then it just makes me laugh to think of this little red Hulk.

But seriously, say these thoughts/feelings out loud, know they are valid, and then let them go, drifting off into the ether smile

YompingJo Fri 15-Feb-13 13:16:21

Crazy, you're not alone. You can be my anger issues buddy if you like? I am trying cbt to help with mine. My main trigger is crying, which dd does a lot, the instant something happens that she doesn't like or wasn't expecting, and it escalates to desperate "help, I'm dying" type crying within about a millisecond and I lose my rag because it's so bloody unnecessary and out of proportion!

Does anyone else's bean sort of hum while feeding? She needs to learn not to talk with her mouth full grin

Londonmrss Fri 15-Feb-13 13:22:10

I too get the angry feelings and have to leave the room at that point. I like oren's rational idea of saying it out loud, although mine is more asking the lines of "I'm feeling pissed off right now because it seems like you don't want me to sleep. I know I am being irrational but i currently feel like drop kicking you out of the window and because I love you and I would never hurt you, I'm going to ask your father to take over until I am ready to come back in and apologise to you for my irrational angry feelings".

Yes yes yes to the humming while feeding. It's on every swallow. I quite like it as it sounds like a happy noise of satisfaction but it can be embarrassing in public.

crazypaving Fri 15-Feb-13 14:10:29

thanks again. orenishii I like that idea and might try it as I've been stressing about being a negative role model for ds1 with my obvious anger sometimes. hope it helps. sometimes it's so hard not to swear, god you really need to be a saint to be a good mother.

Jo ds2 crying is my trigger too - exactly the same with ds1. babies are so sodding unreasonable and when he's yelling all patience with ds1 goes out the window. and then I get more angry because I feel like ds2 is making life worse for ds1. how awful is that? blush blush

oh man, sounds like ds1 just rolled over in his sleep onto that stupid noisy toy angry how long til he starts shouting for me...

Katla Fri 15-Feb-13 15:41:37

Hello all. Wow, another thread, what prolific posters you all are.

This week we have had visitors from Norway (they went home yesterday). It has been a bit stressful trying to tidy scrub the house clean for their arrival and then keep them fed and entertained. I lived with them in my early 20s and worked on their horse farm. They had a daughter my age but she died aged 23 of cancer but I have always kept in touch. They call Erin their 'Scottish granddaughter' which is nice and brought her a lovely hand knitted hat with sheep on it. However, the lady is quite opinionated and wasn't impressed with Erin's daytime sleeping habits and kept telling me 'in Norway the babies all go outside in the pram in all weathers, wrapped in wool (not these nasty man-made materials...) up to minus 12 degrees and sleep outside'. Not, as Erin does (if I'm lucky) sleep on a pillow on the sofa or godforbid in my arms. Luckily we had a few outings in the car which avoided too many demonstrations of her terrible day naptime habits. Nighttime was OK but I ended up with her in our bed a few times (I think therefore I must normally let her bawl a bit in bed to self settle in the night) but was trying to avoid waking them up in the room next door so this avoided that.

Smiley sorry to hear about the reflux issues and I hope you find something to help.

October I have only been to two baby groups - Erin likes shouting during the singing and looking at the other babies. But I do struggle to speak to the other mums much - just stick to commenting how beautiful their baby is, asking how old it is etc. I only know one person from the antenatal group. I think I am quite antisocial though naturally and have to make an effort to speak to others.

London hope the house move goes well. I am sure your bean will settle in well if their usual stuff is there and smells familiar.

Lisbeth grin re no sleep lost on the cyst!

Elpis yes, your DH is a total nobber angry Here flowers and wine

Angelico your description of your bean chatting made me smile - Erin likes to shriek and yell in her cot in the morning - she's not unhappy and will wriggle about making noises for half an hour - as I am hugging the duvet leaving it until the last possible second to have to get up.

Crazy sympathies, I totally get the feeling to drop kick the baby out the window too. You are doing a great job flowers

For the last two days, I now have a napping baby in the daytime in the pram - if I bump her down the road for 15 minutes then she will stay in there for at least an hour when we return. Previously she woke up 5 minutes after it stopped moving. So I am loving the baby free time (finally have time to start up the computer to post). Yesterday I actually had to wake her up from a nap as it was 4:30pm - so this is amazing, hopefully not a fluke. But she has been in the pram again since ten to 2pm and I might just have to wake her again today!!! shock Not a chance of napping in the cot but one step at a time ... and the exercise must be good for me and the dog.

crazypaving Fri 15-Feb-13 17:25:29

elpis belatedly adding my oar to the mix to say hiban of the highest order. and how does he think his children will feel if they ever get wind of his thoughts on their existence? it makes me so so sad sad

Zara1984 Fri 15-Feb-13 19:54:57

So I went and viewed creches today. Decided on the one that's about 20m from our front door. It's beautiful, very professional and unfortunately also expensive. confused But did not give off the baby-prison vibes the others did, left me with a warm fuzzy feeling inside.

Still it makes me die a little bit inside when I think of leaving my precious tiny boy there. Even though I know it'll be good and stimulating for him and will mean I can keep a foot in the workforce.

Now to negotiate a 3 day a week return in September/October with work. I've got a pretty god shot given it's the heart-wringing NGO sector but it still makes me a bit anxious thinking about it.

When DS screamed for 90 minutes this afternoon I did wonder if the creche would take him today grin

YompingJo Fri 15-Feb-13 20:08:09

London I know what you mean about the humming on swallowing but now during some feeds she hums all the time, not just on swallowing! It's like she can't bear to stop talking even to feed!

Today she has been nuts, really chatty and smiley and wide awake, impossible to settle for some sleeps and very difficult to settle for others and she is now totally exhausted and had a meltdown after her massage when I dressed her. She hates having her vest and sleepsuit put on most evenings but this was a new level of protest.

DH has been ill and I am irrationally livid at him because of it. It's stupid, I know it's not his fault but I'm jealous that he can just spend the day in bed recovering when I don't have that option more, if I'm ill I still have to look after dd and if he's at work he can't always take days off so I have to do it by myself whilst feeling crap. This is his rest days, I was expecting him to take over for a bit too give me a break but instead he has been ill so I've had do everything by myself including the nights as he has slept in the nursery. This was at my insistence try to avoid either dd or I getting ill as well but I am still cross about it! Nobber me.

OctoberOctober Fri 15-Feb-13 20:19:00

zara when are you talking to work about going back pt? I am also hoping to return sept / oct time 3 days a week but hadn't considered raising it yet. Unfortunately I'm in corporate sector that have recently clamped down on pt working so not a given by any means.

As a complete aside, I am seething after reading bastard Tory welsh sec banging on about same sex couples being unable to raise children in a 'warm and safe environment'. Seems to be under misapprehension that gay couples cannot biologically have children and also the small minded view that we are not fit to raise them. It saddens me that my children will grow up in a country where these views are still commonplace, but I do not for one moment think they will lack a loving and supportive home environment where they are treasured and nurtured.

Zara1984 Fri 15-Feb-13 20:31:27

October don't worry about Tory bigoted eejits. Whenever I hear those kind of views I always think "ah, but soon they will die". Imagine in the 60s and 70s etc moronic gits were banging on about how women's place was in the home and all this feminist stuff was dangerous. By the time your children are adults, homophobic views like that will be completely unacceptable!

Re: talking to work. When I was pregnant I told work (stupidly) that I'd let them know in February when I was coming back (that seemed so far away!). I didn't mention part-time. However another woman came back on part-time hours so there is precedent (however she is more senior/has been there longer than me). If they don't agree then <gulp> I will threaten to leave. Need some big balls to do that....

Beccus Fri 15-Feb-13 20:40:35

bollocks, dropped 2 percentiles :-( hv suggested formula, but she's never had her length measured since she was born, so i insisted they take that today & we will go back for review in 2 weeks. it annoys me that they bang on so much about breast is best but will suggest formula at the drop of a hat without even doing a full assessment. she then suggested i supplement with ebm- i don't get it, what's the point? isn't it more efficient just to feed her more often? i do feed her ALOT though during the day, she sleeps through 10-12 hrs at nite. so much day time feeding i actually thought it was a bit odd, thought they should be going 3-4 hrs now btn feeds. it's v. rare we would stretch to 3 hrs. not really sure what to do...will go see lovely b/f lady for advice. kellymom had some stuff re weight loss once b/f established, to do with dodgy latch....might spend tomorrow doing skin to skin, feeding to try & fatten her up & build supply

Londonmrss Fri 15-Feb-13 20:45:41

Fuck em October. Bigoted wankers who just haven't quite evolved yet. Remember while we still live in a world where people are racist and homophobic and sexist, all rational people think their views are stupid and in many cases, the views are illegal.

I am sometimes thankful that I live in a part of the world that has largely evolved beyond the horrific treatment of minority groups. I read an alarming statistic recently about South Africa- a 15 year old girl in SA today is more likely to be raped than to learn to read. Also more than 80% of men there believe there can be no such thing as rape within a marriage. Awful. Anyway, waffling again.

Beccus Fri 15-Feb-13 20:50:43

cross posted - yomping, that sounds shit and october, totally agree with u. my dad is gay & he is the best dad ever. he was an amazing support when babybeccus was born. his current partner's ex wife is also gay too and they had 4 adult kids together and they all meet every weekend & have a massive boozey dinner together at dad's cooked by dad's partner. how many straight parents achieve that! i wish i could go too, but they r all in oz! elpis hope things r better with your dp.

Orenishii Fri 15-Feb-13 21:18:01

beccus DS is also dropping centiles and while it is a massive worry, I can't deny, I also have to keep telling myself that he gives off all the signs of a healthy baby:

- he wets plenty of nappies
- he poos regularly
- he cried tears - oh boy does he!
- he is growing - the pile of clothes he no longer fits into is testament to that.

It is very hard because I want to say, fuck their charts. But we all subscribe to it - even in this group, where we are so supportive of each other's issues, we also celebrate things like staying on the percentile line or whatever. So do I say fuck it/them when he's not following his percentile line, but then rejoice when he or another one of us does?

I don't know. All I know is - look at the baby, not the charts. If your baby - and you know your baby - seems fine, you will know.

Orenishii Fri 15-Feb-13 21:18:20

Oh and p.s haven't forgotten about the swimming!

Orenishii Fri 15-Feb-13 21:26:39

beccus sorry you might have seen up thread, or maybe it was the thread before, that I've pretty much made my mind up to stop getting him weighed at clinics, and will just keep an eye on it at home. I think it was squid that said these things need to be measured over months, not weeks.

I went last week after three weeks of not going and he'd dropped to the 9th percentile. I was patronised and the HV who was weighing all the babies gave big grins to those babies gaining according to their charts, and frowns to women and babies like me - those not gaining at the speed they like. It made me feel like total shit. I was advised to go back in four weeks but I don't have to and I don't think I will!

Londonmrss Fri 15-Feb-13 22:01:07

yomping I think it's ok to be pissed off because you're totally right- we can't just stay in bed when ill, we have to book it months in advance. Not helped by the fact that men are usually completely pathetic when ill which I really don't have any patience with- particularly now I've been through childbirth. My dh went out with some mates the other week and spent the next day in bed with a hangover- a really bad one with puking and everything. I was furious. I'd told him to have a nice night out with his mates but it wasn't cool to then have to take a day to recover. And even if I did have a night out with my mates, I couldn't take that hangover day without booking dh in advance. It's always assumed that I will be the one looking after little one unless we plan otherwise.

Have to remind myself that dh does contribute a lot and goes out and works very hard for us...

Anyway sympathies yomping. Your fella probably didn't mean to be ill.smile

Elpis Fri 15-Feb-13 22:03:19

crazy - lots of good advice here, and I've been there many times. The inane chatter really does grate and the repetitive noisy toys drive me mad. I get angry too (though never with DS - as you say, it's very, very hard not to take it out on the person who understands most of what you're saying). I would suggest

- Getting rid of noisy toys that annoy you. I realised after a while that what little educational value they had didn't compensate for what they were doing to me. I remove them when DD isn't looking, and most of the time she never even notices their absence. It's my home too and I don't have to pollute it with someone else's idea of what a preschooler should enjoy.

- When DD is talking rubbish inanely, as can only be expected from a three-year-old, we read a book of her choice and then I put on Radio 4. Unless it is the ghastly Afternoon Play or You & Yours, in which case we have Absolute 80s and Mummy shows DD some dance moves. Either way, you've read them a story to break the cycle and you don't have to listen to the nonsense for a while.

- It is OK to drink before dinner. Sometimes I have a weak G&T or a glass of wine mid-afternoon and just drink water with dinner. I realise I'm using it to alter my mood but hey, who doesn't?

- How's the play date situation? Can you start taking DS to rampage in other people's houses? It does break up the day when they are too young to appreciate outings to more expensive places.

Thank you for all the supportive comments about the nobber. He made a special effort with the kids tonight and we are going to have a conversation about money and what options I have regarding work v SAHM. We are also putting DD to bed half an hour earlier.

Elpis Fri 15-Feb-13 22:13:04

Oreniishi and beccus - so sorry to hear HVs are giving you a hard time. If your babies are growing and doing the new things we're all noticing, then I think there's absolutely no need to worry. The idea of feeding a baby ebm to make them gain weight is very, very odd. The more skin-to-skin contact you have with them and the more time they spend on the breast, the more milk you'll produce. I suggest napping with them when you can - both DD and DS have enjoyed falling asleep on the boob, and it can be very relaxing if you have a book or can drift off too.

DS rolled for the first time last week but hasn't managed it at all since. Perhaps he needs to get naked more often.

Katla Fri 15-Feb-13 22:14:08

Can I ask thoughts - Erin has red shiny damp looking skin under one arm pit (in a skin fold where lots of 'stuff' collects). I usually wipe her armpits, fat rolls and face/hands every morning It's always been a bit red but today was looking more red than normal (skin not broken though)

Do you think I put anything (savlon? sudocrem?) on it or just wash as normal but more often? It's the kind of thing that needs aired but even when she's naked I don't think it gets much air as it's deep in her pits.

hufflepuffle Fri 15-Feb-13 22:22:13

Visions of Elpis on the gin at 12.30.... Well it IS the afternoon!!! Hic'........

hufflepuffle Fri 15-Feb-13 22:23:15

(Sorry totally unproductive unconversational post......! Hugs to all!)


hufflepuffle Fri 15-Feb-13 22:26:20

Katla I find bepanthen a great general healing cream for minor redness in airless areas. I use it myself on sore skin too. It is very kind and not as thick and annoying as sudocrem.

Angelico Fri 15-Feb-13 22:29:12

The bean was in fab form all day but now is completely wide awake and it is bed time. So she is angry crying in protest... hmm

smile4me Fri 15-Feb-13 23:16:23

angelico and katla another shrieking bean alarm clock here, went off an hour early this morning though, probably cos last night DH said he could really do with a lie in this morning hmm No chance of that for a few years I reckon! I think we are making progress on the getting to sleep side of things, yesterday she managed to get herself to sleep (thumbsucking) 3 times, although she only ever sleeps for 30mins when she does that. But today we are back to the moaning and head shaking. So thinking of everyone else who feels exhausted by the amount of time they spend each day getting their beans down for a nap.

elpis angry for you, hiban. DHs (and probably some DWs) can be funny about money, in the end, what do we all work for if it's not to provide for our families? It's a bit late now to hold up the 'you wanted them more than me card'. I'm sure it would all be different if you were the one earning the big $$$ in the house grrrrrr. <quietly seething>

october It makes me so mad that people can actually still think and believe that sort of crap. I like zara's thinking, a lot of them will die soon and our children will grow up knowing it's totally normal.

orenishi that's a great approach to dealing with your feelings, and is very respectful to your DS. Apparently they get very confused if put on your happy face, but voice says the opposite,but being honest with them teaches them about feelings and emotions

hugs to you crazy you have every right to feel angry, in fact you'd have to be a saint not to be angry and frustrated, you've had terrible sleep troubles AND a DS1 too! wine needed

How long to go to your wedding livvy ?

Angelico Fri 15-Feb-13 23:25:02

She did go to sleep thankfully after another feed... but based on form this week she'll be needing fed again soon and I want to go to bed hmm At least the morning screeching is the happy sort smile

smile4me Fri 15-Feb-13 23:46:18

katla I put cornflour in those sweaty bits... underarms and neck mainly but bum too if it's looking a bit red. Does the trick really quickly.

smileyhappymummy Sat 16-Feb-13 02:05:44

Tonight, while we were trying to put melissa to bed, she was sick on:
2 vests
2 sleepsuits
4 pairs pyjama trousers (mine)
2 bed sheets
2 duvets
And that was just the stuff that was soaked enough to change!
elpis so glad he made a bit of an effort today, you deserve for him to be making a big effort all the time, I bet you are.
october the level of bigotry displayed can be amazing, can't it? I hope the next generation will be better. Incidentally our will stipulates that if dh and I both died we would want our friends who are a same sex couple to take care of the kids - horrid thought but can't think of anyone I'd trust more.
Sympathy for those dealing with nobber health visitors. Agree completely with look at the baby not the chart -it's just one piece of the jigsaw isn't it, doesn't really mean anything on its own? So, if I have a shitty week of vomiting / screaming etc. then I celebrate her staying on her centiles...but equally valid to celebrate a baby who seems well and is developing normall regardless if centiles... Does that make sense? Don't see that formula is automatically the answer anyhow, like anything else depends on if there us a problem and if so what the problem is!
Right, off to try settling my little pukomatic baby,

hufflepuffle Sat 16-Feb-13 03:52:05

I am cross. 2nd night in row. Under 2 hrs each sleep. I thought we had passed this. 17.5 weeks. Just hurled v pillow at bed in frustration. And now I hear talk of a 20 week growth spurt after this??

Zara1984 Sat 16-Feb-13 08:33:50

<hands huffle a 6 pack of red bull>

Right so I am definitely going on the pill as my form of contraception, mainly to manage my periods. Third period since DS was born just started. It is fucking sore and extremely fucking heavy, again. Never had periods like this before DS. Anyone else noticed a change like this?

Am convinced my uterus is getting its revenge for the induction. "Put prostin gel on me, will you?! Just you wait. Revenge is a dish best served monthly..."

Zara1984 Sat 16-Feb-13 08:38:40

Also going to try get DS naked today to see if that encourages him to roll. 16 weeks old tomorrow and no improvement on that front.

Ok it's totally because on Thursday we have a very official-sounding "3-4 Month Developmental Assessment" at the public health clinic. With the (very nice) public health nurse who did the "surprise" home visit (oh the shame) when I was not coping with trying to bf. In my head I plan to stroll in looking fabulous, with DS crawling and singing nursery rhymes at just 17 weeks. "Look at this genius child! It must be because you're such a good mother, madam" grin

Angelico Sat 16-Feb-13 09:10:56

Huffle sympathy. Not sure if it is a growth spurt or just the bean being a monkey hmm as DH took her last night so I could sleep - and she has managed ten hours without a feed... My poor boobs are massive, having upped their game to cope! So might be worth a try just removing yourself from the room?

Zara 20.5 week DD has only rolled once (off a cushion!) so don't worry (she sort of lies on side and arches or reaches to get what she wants but doesn't bother rolling hmm). Friend was saying that the wonder weeks thing says they just pick a couple of skills that are important to them at each 'leap' - so bean is very good with hands and very vocal. Her wee boy hardly makes a sound but he loves rolling about and has starting slithering / creeping towards things. Baby groups are good for seeing so many babies at different stages - yesterday there were two 6 month baby boys. One wasn't rolling, the other one was rolling and doing a kind of commando wriggle so they are all different. That said think the naked baby is a good idea, it's just so bloody cold in our house that it feels cruel stripping poor bean down.

Got good advice at baby group yesterday about using cups - basically get a Tommy Tippee free flow cup, give it to beans empty and let them have it when you are drinking a cuppa etc. They like to copy so will start to raise it to mouth etc over days and weeks. Only put a dribble of liquid in when they can get it to their mouths.

Katla Sat 16-Feb-13 11:56:58

Thanks Huffle and Smile for thoughts on Erin's red armpit. I will give them a shot smile

Zara Erin is 18 weeks and has never rolled. She once got stuck on her side when she was trying to turn to see the tv during nappy off time (and cried to be rescued when she couldn't get back) but otherwise doesn't try too much.

Huffle what a shame re sleeping issues, it must be a phase [hopeful face]. We're back to a night awake now and last night she was up at 3am and we struggled to get her back again. Erin also awakes at 6:30am and we get up then bloody DH lazes in bed til 9, aaargh Bit of a shock to the system after rising at 8 or 9am which was Erin's previous getting up time. But she is now in bed at 8pm rather than 10pm so guess to be expected. Wish I was an early bird like Squid

At baby group yesterday, a small crawling boy sucked my toe!! I was speaking to the woman next to me and didn't see him coming. His mother said he has a thing about feet! At least I'd put clean socks on smile

Katla Sat 16-Feb-13 12:00:43

Angelico good idea re getting them used to cups. I've given up trying to get Erin to take a bottle also too lazy to spend ages sterilising bottles and expressing . She just ended up screaming so much. So going to start her cup training instead as she is totally fascinated by mugs I have tea in.

OctoberOctober Sat 16-Feb-13 12:08:26

Firstly thank you to all for the lovely words of support re same sex families and stupid comments. At the end of the day, we are all bumbling along trying to do the best for our kids and not fuck them up in some way wink

Beccus your dad sounds cool! On the feeding side, we have nver consistently managed 3-4 hours betweeen feeds, even with formula which should theoretically be easier to regulate. I would say that we are more like 2-3hrs and yesterday was definitely every 2hrs so I wouldn't feel bad that your LO isn;t going longer. Also, when they sleep through like that (as ours does too) it means they only have a limited amount of time to get the milk in so they will feed more frequently.

Zara love the comment about uterus's thinking revenge is a dish best served monthly!

crazypaving Sat 16-Feb-13 13:05:06

ah so many posts! am on phone as usual, so while I've been alternately chuckling and grr-ing I naturally struggle to remember any of it...

zara I had heavy periods before ds1 but after I officially had menorrhagia. soaking through a max tampon every hour for the first 36 hrs of my period. fucking mental. get thee to the doctor! you can get treatment for heavy periods or just go on the pill. I got mefe-something acid but never got a chance to use it cos I got preggers. excellent period cure grin

October ignore the silly politicians. it's the people you know and care about who matter more, and above all else, your little family unit.

sympathy to those with babies dropping the centiles, I know how worrying that is. just remember they're obsessed with weight (starts early, eh hmm ) because it's pretty much the only objective measure they have. and hv in my experience aren't hugely bright and are incredibly dogmatic. unless you have a reason to be worried, avoid the scales I reckon, and watch your baby. disclaimer: I know jack (as in shit) so don't quote me grin

elpis thank you for those ideas. I did snort a bit at huffle imagining you with a g&t at 12.01 grin I think in the last week ds1's language has upped a notch. he's doing really well but he talks incessantly in this slightly chanty monotone which makes me twitch a bit. he sounds like a monk singing mass. I had a really good week in a good mood and suddenly I. all went tits up on Friday and I can't identify why - I think that's part of the problem.

it didn't help that I turned up 30mins early for ds2's doctor appt yesterday because I had the time wrong, and then she was running 15mins late. by the time we got in there tho whole waiting room wanted to murder all 3 of us I think blush and I wanted to murder the unsympathetic and patronising receptionist. she was really sarcastic which was totally unnecessary when she could see I was pretty stressed. why didn't she tell me how early I was when we arrived??? could've taken the boys outside for a run around.

sorry, derailed there on a rant. thank goodness for the weekend!

yomping can very much identify with feeling annoyed that dh is ill. feelings are funny things.

OctoberOctober Sat 16-Feb-13 13:20:43

zara no real signs of rolling here either, DS is 17 weeks and hasn't shown much interest. I haven't been great with naked time with him, partly cos house is pretty chilly but maybe that would encourage more activity.

Whoever mentioned size 2 teats, thank you! I tried a couple of weeks ago but they seemed too fast, need to give a go again. I was particularly thinking this at 3am this morning as DS was leisurely taking an hour over his bottle wink

OctoberOctober Sat 16-Feb-13 13:27:13

Would also second the opinion that hv not terribly bright and dogmatic. Have opposite problem here that DS is now on 90th percentile BUT no recognition that he is also v long as they no longer measure that. He is 2 cm over 99 percentile for length so to my mind it is no wonder that it follows he is also heavier than normal or we would have a beanpole on our hands! Just looking at him sprawled on me in a 6-12m romper that is looking a little short on the legs...

Londonmrss Sat 16-Feb-13 13:43:37

Moving day. Routine is fucked, baby is over-tired, everyone is emotional and sad to leave. Londonmrss is stressed. And referring to herself in the third person.

lisbethsopposite Sat 16-Feb-13 13:58:10

elpis. I second Squid & Cherry's comments. Yanbu. He is. Nobber.
crazy I have toddler and baby too - but ds1 attends crèche 5 mornings and I have an au pair. I feel a bit guilty about this and I really admire you and elpis. Fact is I could not do what you do. In my book you are fab.
Also I hear on the AP grapevine that many children watch MANY hrs of TV. We are all only human.
katla we recently started afternoon naps. No palaver, just a relaxed time soon after a feed and into cot. He grumbles a little but by the time toddler is put in bed baby is asleep -3 mins. I find it good to have his outdoor suit on as cool mattress does not revive him IYKWIM.
yomping I remember way back in a very early post you complained you were bored. You had everything done you needed to do. I was envy grin
OctOct agree with Zara. TBH I thought that kind of thinking was gone already. Reminds me of Mad Men.
beccus Paul has not been weighed in months. Last saw nurse at 2 months and we don't have HVs. In fact I'm not sure what they are...
I also thought charts were for trends over time.

noisy toys remove batteries. F**k off head wrecker.
cherry I bought a jumperoo today. Thanks for tip.

No rolling here either, but we are doing tummy time - improving mummy!

Last thing - DH working like a dog lately. Travel and long hours was only home 1 day in last 2 weeks. Remembered to send me flowers for Valentines day and is really supportive. Anyway home last night we ended up in big row. blush
Him helping annoyed me. Blame the wine. I am a nobber!

crazypaving Sat 16-Feb-13 14:30:17

just sneezed and ds2 absolutely roared with laughter! fake sneezes apparently are just as funny grin

cherrycherry41 Sat 16-Feb-13 14:36:44

Hi everyone,
First of all congratulations on your babies! Im a bit of a mumsnet newbie so never got into the whole antenatal club thing...
However i'm here now- better late than never! May aswell introduce myself-
I was due on 20th September and after a horrendous 3 day induction in ridiculously slow labour i finally had DD1 in the early hours of the 4th October via EMCS 2 whole weeks overdue :@ lazy bum!
She was 10lb 11oz and we called her Savannah Grace.
Since then shes grown into 9-12 month clothes costing me a fortune, is now around 18lbs and can roll into some weird positions- especially when i wake her up in the morning (other end of the cot/ bum in air much!). She got her first tooth last week smile too after some horrible teething days and nights sad.

Anyhoo, just thought id drop by and get some friends say hi!

Elpis Sat 16-Feb-13 16:08:59

I do not start boozing at noon! Not least because that's when I pick up DD from preschool. smile Around 4.30pm I might have half a glass of wine if there's a bottle open, but I'm trying to avoid even this by introducing teatime with fruit and crumpet on a tray. May even start using a teapot as DD loves them.

In case you think I'm not being defensive enough, I'll add that I'm not even drinking coffee - including decaf - at the moment as it doesn't seem to sit well with lack of sleep and migraine meds. I am a fucking saint, I tell you. It's green tea all the way.

Katla Sat 16-Feb-13 16:17:56

grin Elpis cheers!

Elpis Sat 16-Feb-13 16:35:15

And not on Saturdays! DD is watching Madagascar so DS and I are having Quiet Time. Well-deserved after ballet class, weeding, baking a cake with her and a game of snakes and ladders.

Londonmrss Sat 16-Feb-13 16:57:28

if I wasn't breastfeeding, I'd have been on the gin by noon today

FirstTimeForEverything Sat 16-Feb-13 17:22:24

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FirstTimeForEverything Sat 16-Feb-13 17:23:15

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OctoberOctober Sat 16-Feb-13 17:25:48

* londonmrs* good luck with the move. Stressful at the moment but will be worth it. smile

Enjoy well earned winetonight.

Beccus Sat 16-Feb-13 18:05:08

hi cherry!
thx everyone for the support re lack of weight gain. we managed a morning of skin to skin with frequent feeds, but dd started cracking it with the fois gras style feeding & we both got cabin fever by lunch time, so we got dressed & went out. boobs feeling fuller than usual this arvo, so happy about that. she generally seems pretty content & not hungry, so don't get what the lack of weight gain is about.
good luck with the move londonmrss - it would be wrong to not at least have one g&t! orienishii - swiss cottage reception never answer their phone, so still not sure if pool has reopenned.

smileyhappymummy Sat 16-Feb-13 18:10:59

Hi cherrycherry I have another 4th October baby - elective section at 39 weeks though and just a little one at 3kg exactly - has just doubled her birthweight but still fitting in 0-3 month clothes. Nice to have you!

Angelico Sat 16-Feb-13 18:13:04

Katla loving the random toe sucking baby! grin Would have given me a bit of a shock grin

October it was me said about size 2 teats because they have been a hit here too smile I also bought a couple of variflow ones but haven't tried them out yet, will let you know the verdict. Tommy Tippee are greedy bastads though for putting size 1's in with bottles as the variflow ones are from 0+ months grrr!

Welcome cherrycherry smile

FirstTime think it was Livvy whose bean had that and she found it was to do with lactose? I could be making that up but someone will recognise the description!

London well done on surviving move! It is hateful and stressful but you've done it, hurrah for you. And lots of wine or [gin] or [whatever floats your boat]

Had nice long lunch with friend and because of expressed bottle was able to stay out for ages grin It was great!!! Expressing is my friend now that boobs have caught up!

Woolybob Sat 16-Feb-13 20:00:09

chin chin elpis, it's always 4.30 somewhere wink

welcome cherry my dd born fourth oct too and also induced but a more modest 8lb 1. congratulations grin

Not wishing to gloat but a lovely few days here. dd in much better mood and only woken twice the past few nights (and been ok to resettle!) Yesterday was my birthday and dh had booked me in for a back massage, facial and manicure as a surprise. Then went out for a meal just the two of us while my dps babysat. Baby free bliss wink

smile4me Sat 16-Feb-13 21:06:36

zara grin reminded me of this thread I read yesterday. Totally second the getting DS naked (wish you were still in sunny NZ for that one smile ) to see if he will roll! Soon as I take DD's nappy off she's all over the place, clothes back on and just lies on her back!

huffle hope you get a better night tonight, he's got to start improving again soon!

Thanks for the tips on cups angelico How long did it take your boobs to get used to expressing? I'm planning on expressing a bit in a couple of months, more when DD can use a cup seeing as the little toad won't take a bottle but just wondering how long in advance I need to start practicing smile

Firsttime we regularly get days of green poo nappies, often accompanied by sore gassy guts and grizzliness, and often when she has fallen asleep on boob and drank too much. Have you upped her bottles lately? I've mentioned it to HV and she has always said not to worry, probably just overeating/indigestion. I did read about lactose overload though when she was a NB and started block feeding, which definitely helped, but that probably doesn't apply if you're FF.

october is HV just concerned about increasing weight percentile because DS is FF? DD has crept up from 90th - 99th and our HV isn't worried as she is also long but definitely also a chub The weight difference between the 90th and 99th percentile is huge too! And what are you supossed to do, leave him crying when he's hungry??? No thanks! I guess lisbeth's right though, it's the only thing they can objectively measure easily, the other things like baby happy and pooing lots can't be plotted on a chart smile

Hi Cherrycherry we are also breaking out the 9-12m vests and are lugging around a lard arse chubby DD! shock shock at 10lb 11 at birth! Was she your first? We also got 2 teeth about 10 days ago, someone (I think it was huffle ) had a theory a while back about teething being related to fast growth so we could be proving that theory right! grin

Zara1984 Sat 16-Feb-13 21:19:49

Welcome cherrycherry!

Right crazy I am off to the docs to get the pill ASAP. I got through the best part of a big pack of super pads today ugh. Now DS is in bed I am receiving some immediate period pain relief from Dr Johnnie Walker...

Smile I tried to get DS naked this evening before his bath but he was NOT pleased about it. Even though our apartment is a cosy 22 degrees he grizzled at me and looked like he was saying " Mother the INDIGNITY of it all. The cats can see my wily!!" He only calmed down when I gave him a towel to partially cover himself with and chew on while I ran his bath! confused

Zara1984 Sat 16-Feb-13 21:24:14

Actually smile DS is much better behaved now we're back in Dublin! confused He may have Kiwi parents but he is an Irish boy that likes it cold and rainy - the heat just didn't agree with him.

I miss the sun desperately though... My tan lines are fading already!! Enjoy every second of the rest of summer!!

YompingJo Sun 17-Feb-13 11:17:18

Ah,you ladies are on form, you have cheered me right up today! DH is better and had a Daddy In Charge day yesterday and took dd overnight so I feel much refreshed. Unfortunately my attempts to keep me and dd away from his germs failed, she now has her second cold in a month (so much for ebf babies getting ill less...) and I failed to capitalise on the opportunity to get more sleep, instead lying awake enjoying hot and cold flushes and aching limbs. Ah well.

Londonmrss, glad move is all done. Drink wine!

Cherrycherry eek at huge baby grin. I also had a slow labour at 15 days overdue with a big baby but my 9lb seems small in comparison!

Elpis, so glad your DH stepped up and that you're going to have a chat, how did it go?

Sleep is so weird. Trying hard to read dd' s tired cues and get her down for naps at right times for her but it is very hit and miss. Sometimes even the first yawn and eye rubbing seems to be too late resulting in an overtired screamathon and very unsettled (and consequently short) sleep, but sometimes it seems to early resulting in trying to settle a wide awake dd who is chatting and not seeming tired!

With night sleep, we had been putting her to bed at 8 but she has started to be wide awake at 5am so last night we moved bedtime back to 10pm with an evening nap. Woke her at 8, normal bedtime routine, sleep at 10... usual night wakings for feeds... still wide awake chatting at 5am confused. How does that work??? She's happy enough to lie in her cot and talk to herself, and will even drift back off to sleep for 20 mins at a time, wake and repeat until we get her up at 7 but it makes for a tricky morning as by the time she seems tired enough for her morning nap she has already been awake(ish) for much longer than usual, so she is overtired and then the rest of the day is tricky. How do I get her to start sleep until 7am? Doesn't seem to make much difference if I feed her at 5am or not. Babies are weird!

Beccus, ignore your HV! You are right that her advice makes no sense, it smacks of just telling you what she has been told to tell you - it would be interesting to hear what she'd say if you challenged her advice. (I'm spoiling for a fight today and your HV seems like a perfect candidate!)

What does cup training involve? The Battle of the Bottle wages on here. DH thinks he may have had a tiny bit of success with a Playtex bottle with latex teat yesterday but she clearly hate the taste of SMA formula and that isn't helping. I was expressing milk for him to try to bottle feed her with but as it wasn't working I just ended up wasting milk and about with my supply so we bought some formula for him to practise with. Think we need to try with expressed milk again. I like the tip from Angelico's baby group about giving her the sippy cup when I have a drink, although my baby does not copy anything at all except raspberries, and only then when she is in a co-operative mood (ie not often!)

crazypaving Sun 17-Feb-13 12:05:38

Jo if you crack the early mornings let me know! as least we're not getting up at 3.30 any more, but 5 is still a bit too early for me ta.

londonlivvy Sun 17-Feb-13 12:40:58

Hi everyone. I've been reading but not had time for posting as dd has been clingy and somewhat challenging of late. I looked it up in the wonder weeks and it seems I have four more weeks of this. I'm starting to hate that book. Makes me dread it before it even happens. Anyway, sleep is also rubbish and I am so so tired and weepy and argh.

Also, I hate weekends. DF spends the entire time in his study and I get hideously lonely, doing various walks to the shops so at least we chat to the lady on the till. He emerges ( if we are lucky ) at lunchtime for a brief chat then again for twenty mins at bath time and then at 730 for supper. Great. At least during the week there are mother and baby groups to go to. Seeing non baby friends is tricky because they want to hang out for four hours or whatever and I don't have four hours worth of energy in me. A hour and a half of sociability suits me fine. They all live over ten miles away though in London so it's understandable they want to make the most of the journey.

I have started dd on the hypoallergenic formula, very diluted in my milk, as per dietician s advice as it is disgusting (the smell makes me gag) and can cause green poos and epic wind while they get used to it. Anyway, I've managed three days of 1 in 5 and hoping to up that to 2 in five and so on. When I know she'll drink it neat i will be able to start dropping breastfeeding . I'm only doing formula at one feed at the moment as I already have to spend about an hour and a half a day expressing. Dull dull dull. I am amused by those walk about the house systems. Hideous, but useful, undoubtedly! DF isn't massively in favour of putting her on something "so utterly synthetic" but does say "it's your body and I understand that you want it back" which makes me feel like like a selfish bitch. I am planning to have stopped totally at six months, which means we will get to have a two night minimoon (his mum has offered). This will not be possible if I am still bf. I am also not keen on sitting in the loos on my wedding day, expressing, frankly. So yes, it is partly selfish, but it's bloody stressful this reduced diet thing and I hate expressing and I hate these hideous 32j cup bras and I hate leakage and argh, and I hate worrying about accidentally eating something bad that causes her pain.

DF and I had a massive fight last night which was fun too. He gets cross with not going out for meals. Nobber. I bloody love that too but am too sodding tired and with my diet I can't really eat out anyway. We ended up ordering thai takeaway. I spent twenty mins going through the menu with the man, who was super nice, and eventually thought that pad thai, with no soy, was my best option (it wasn't on the menu but it was a stir fry that I like). I got four mouthfuls in before realising it has egg in. Arse. So had to pump and dump and then make myself baked beans on toast. And still worry about upsetting DD's tum cos of the amount I'd eaten. We would have had a much nicer meal if he'd just have let me cook a good meal. Sigh. Anyway, it was a stupid fight, made worse through tiredness and frustration.

Wedding isn't til may, smile4me, but there's a lot to do and all the family politics to manage. Lots of questions about shall I wear this and is your mum wearing that. And I just think "I don't sodding care. Wear what you like". We're also having all his family (mum, partner, sister, half sister, dad, step mum) to stay for a week. Lord knows where I'm supposed to put them all or how I'm to feed etc for a week. Argh. Meanwhile DF is pissed off cos only one if his friends have replied and all mine have. How exactly am I to fix that???

Wow. Massive rant. Sorry ladies. I need sleep, but failing that, wine. Elpis says it's ok so I shall tell DF to wind his neck in if I get a disapproving glance!!

Londonmrss I hope the move went ok.

Londonmrss Sun 17-Feb-13 14:27:59

hey livvy, sorry top near about your dp being a nobber. are weekends always going to be like this? I remember the wedding politics well. my DH wanted to invite his whole family including everyone's ex-wives and neighbours... so our wedding would have been my family of 6 and then his family of 6 hundred. Eventually we said fuck it, it's our wedding and we had only 8 guess to the ceremony and then 200 at the party.

so as I no longer live in London I'm thinking about going for a name change. any ideas? I was thinking MummyOfTheShitMachine but it's not very catchy.

Londonmrss Sun 17-Feb-13 17:38:53

oh and livvy I feel a bit angry with your dp not being keen on formula. When he has tits, he might be allowed to comment but until then he should do nothing but 100% support your choice. Men have no idea what it can be like so they don't get a vote on the feeding front, just like childbirth. Everything else can be shared, but these things are for us with the vaginas and tits to decide.

squidkid Sun 17-Feb-13 17:49:21

livvy You sound very fed up. sad
Breastfeeding is (has become) very important to me... but I am a total foodie and the thought of going on such a restrictive diet.... I don't know if I could do it. And I hate expressing.
I think wine is ok too, I have a glass most nights, Jess is happy and thriving

Londonmrss can you call yourself DoYourPelvicFloors
Hope the move went ok?

A weekend of ups and downs here but mostly good in the end. Boyfriend was being pointlessly negative about all the stuff I suggested doing on Friday night. He said he wanted to stay in all weekend and chill out, and I got grumpy because Jess needs stimulating or she gripes. Anyway, I got my way. We went to Ikea yesterday and bought stuff and had lunch there and swung by my brother's on the way home, which was nice until I knocked boiling hot coffee over Jess confused
It was only a splash in the end but she screamed and I felt horrendous. She was fine after a feed (I view milk as the cure for everything)
It shook me up a bit though

Today we went out into the Peaks, boyfriend had been very negative about this as well, claiming Jess was "too young" (for what? to be carried around? idiot)
But it was a marvellous day, gorgeous and still and clear and sunny, 8 or 9 miles around the reservoir and over the high moors and past the dams. Exercise seems to make everything better and we are all in a great mood now. As you cover the miles conversation always seems to turn from bickering to deep and interesting and loving again. Endorphins maybe...
I really do love my life right now. I could have had a kid earlier and I don't think it would have worked out so well, I think I would have missed going out more. This is just the right time for us. I love spending time with her, I love the variety and freedom and ease my life has right now, I love the new challenges and I feel a bit bad because I know so many people on this forum are struggling with stressful situations and are knackered... but I have just been so CHRONICALLY tired and upset and low for so many years, and somehow this just feels like an absolute break to me, this is without a doubt the longest period of sustained happiness and good mental health I've had for years and years.
Jess is being a superstar, I never thought I would have such an amazing little girl.
Would just like to get my body back (getting there; and I do more or less have my fitness back); be able to enjoy sex again; and arrange part time work with the hospital so I stop freaking out about going back in August.

Zara1984 Sun 17-Feb-13 17:49:25

For Yomping and others having bottle battles - just got back from friends whose 5 month old is a serious bottle refuser. He seems to like the Avent trainer sippy cup though (with handles and soft silicon spout!). He holds it with one hand and likes the flat soft sippy bit more than the teats on any bottle.

londonlivvy Sun 17-Feb-13 18:44:53

londonmrss how about CambShield as a name? as in breast shields.
yes, weekends are going to be like this til July 2014. hopefully once he's finished it'll be better. though after I had a rant he did come out for a quick walk with us this afternoon which was nice. You're right too re formula. he isn't telling me I can't, exactly, but I'm feeling guilty.

squid your weekend sounds blissful. v jealous.

squidkid Sun 17-Feb-13 18:57:35

It was lovely livvy, though I am a bit anxious I sound like a nobber now waffling on about being happy - and am not even on the wine yet...

I'm glad you got a quick walk if nothing else.

I know you said you're shattered but I think seeing some mates might be good anyway. Often when I'm too tired for people is actually when I need them most.

Take care, eh.

hufflepuffle Sun 17-Feb-13 20:27:18

Gosh. So behind. And only half caught up. But Yomping have u tasted SMA? Can't blame DD, it is vile! And smells odd.. I tried it yonks ago cos I was fed on it and did me no harm except hating food til I was 18...- and DS refused. At that stage he readily took Aptamil. Until he decided to take none of course, but he's wised up now.

Just worth a mention! They are markedly different.

Am sure lots if babies love SMA btw!

hufflepuffle Sun 17-Feb-13 20:43:33

Livvy I am v v v angry on your behalf. Nobber indeed. I agree with londonnrss but could not have put it so erm, eloquently! Yes, BF is fucking hard at the best if times. But man, the lengths you have gone to with the diet are admirable beyond the point of amazing!! And can he not see that even when you try your damdest (pad Thai in point) you can still eat things that may make her uncomfortable??! Sorry, not a nobber, a twat.

I am sorry for ranting as he is your beloved and obviously he has his positives and you love him dearly and some times we regret vocalising these things to friends cos they over react.............. But as someone who is also starting to reduce feeding for more selfish reasons ( like having to go to wirk( I am hurt on your behalf.

Rant over.

Still catching up..........

hufflepuffle Sun 17-Feb-13 20:57:02

Londonmrss. My only advice, choose a shorter name. The amount of times I can't sign in cos I can't appear to spell Hufflepuffle correctly....... Tho I must say the 'keep me logged in function is now working.

What a boring post........

DS has just had the most hideous noisy breathing them woke screeching! Methinks he had a nightmare????! Bit of tummy rubbing, few sucks on dummy, think he asleep properly.

Sorry to not reply to all. 2 page epic catch up! Thanks for all sympathies and support on erratic sleep. Last night bit better again but longest still only 3.5 hrs. Have had so many unwelcome comments this week of the nature 'give him a bottle, he will sleep all night' and 'that child needs spoonfed'....... Fuck off!! All untrue, lots of evidence to show it, but I do not wish to enter in to conversation so I just uh huh them. Obviously I'm a shite mother who prefers to starve her baby so she can selfishly breastfeed.....

Squid, nice weekend pet. Lovely.

Nice weekend here too mostly due to beautiful spring sunshine. Amazing what sun and walks in fresh air can do for your spirits!!

Londonmrss hope you all settlin in well!!

Must go sleep while DS does.


lisbethsopposite Sun 17-Feb-13 21:57:55

Londonmrs - could you give your new town.mrs? I get confused.

Angelico Sun 17-Feb-13 22:00:10

Wooly gloat away that sounds glorious! grin

Smile it took my boobs about 4 days to up their game but that's because I was determined to express a 5oz bottle each day. It also probably contributed to bean waking like a crazy thing to feed and boost my supply as last 2 nights she has slept right through for first time in donkeys (10-06:00 last night, quick feed, then back to sleep till 11am! shock ) If you start small (maybe 2 ozs?) then gradually raise it you might manage to avoid the night wakings! smile

Yomping am grin at image of you and DD having a raspberry blowing conversation. It happens here too grin

Livvy don't know what to write really. HIBAN pretty much sums it up. I've been a bit of a work widow this weekend as DH is on deadline - but we still got out for a couple of hours today for lunch and a walk. He needs to make time for you and your bean. As for 'synthetic' milk... at that point I would have kicked him in the nads and put his clothes in binbags angry When BFing goes well it's brilliant and convenient and lovely. When it goes badly for whatever reason it is pure stress. In your situation I would have jacked it in long ago. Ignore him.

London you can reinvent yourself!!! grin

Squid your weekend sounds lovely, especially the walking bit on such a lovely day grin You are absolutely right that having a long stretch of time together leads to conversation above and beyond pooey nappies and bickering. It's very precious!

Huffle wasn't the weather totally amazing?! As you can imagine the beach up here was packed and everyone was so happy to see the sun!

DH is hoovering. Bean is asleep, thankfully with white noise on. He is making more noise than I ever thought possible. I am getting twitchy and stabby just listening.

OctoberOctober Sun 17-Feb-13 22:25:54

Livvy has everyone else has said, more eloquently, your DP is being a nobber. You have gone to amazing lengths to bf, if he feels so strongly then tell him to join you on the restricted diet (which sounds a nightmare) and then sit with you for each and every feed. You have done amazingly well given all the issues and it is just not on for him to turn around and insinuate that you are being selfish by introducing formula when there are clearly difficulties. As far as going out for dinner, wouldn't we all like to carry on where we left off on that one pre children, but these things change when you have a baby, not to mention if eating is in itself a test of working out what is allowed. In your situation, I can see that sitting at home eating toast might be preferable! Sorry, none of my business but I get so annoyed at unsupportive partners. angry

On a less ranty note, I had a good day and actually had some time to myself. We all went out together this morning, then I went for a long run in the beautiful sunshine and then to see Midnight's Children at the cinema with a friend. Not cinema weather but had already arranged and didn't want to cancel. Realised it was the longest I have been without DS2 since one meet up at xmas. shock And we are only talking 3 hrs. DP took the boys to the park and made gingerbread men with them (and managed to not wreck the house which was an unexpected bonus). grin

OctoberOctober Sun 17-Feb-13 22:34:49

London I'm sure you'll come up with a good name, just don't stop posting cos you always make me chuckle. grin

smile not sure whether it was to do with ds being on ff that hv was worried about weight, probably an element of it. I can see that on paper it looks 'bad' that he has gone from 60th to 90th percentile but i just don't get that she would ignore that he is really bloody long now and beyond 100th percentile for weight so surely it would be bloody odd if he was still on 60th percentile for weight! Unfortunately I don't know what percentile he was for length at birth as they didn't bother measuring that one. I've since found out that the woman isn't actually a hv anyway, all the drop in clinics are actually staffed by volunteers rather than hv near us and they only refer you the hv beacons of advice if the volunteers think there is something amiss.

Angelico Sun 17-Feb-13 22:41:12

Okay I now have 'the rage' with DH. Asked him to stop making loads of noise as bean asleep. He didn't stop and woke her up. Just settled her again. He comes upstairs and starts crashing about opening and closing cupboards. And when I go 'WTAF are you doing?! Are you trying to wake her again when I have only just settled here?!' he just gives me the hmm look.

Have gone from feeling stabby to feeling murderous!!!

Zara1984 Sun 17-Feb-13 22:50:38

Livvy you are doing great and your DH is being a nobber. As londonmrs says, no tits/vag, no opinion. Tell him he gets a deciding vote when it's his tits. I am so amazed at how well you are doing with this, with the diet etc, massive respect.

I only kept going for a few more days bf (even though I was begging DH to stop) because DH said he had a right to decide how his son was fed, and he wanted his son to be bf. Now DH is very supportive in all other ways and is mostly a perfect husband and father, but later when I was more sane I told him not to ever try that shit on with me again, and that I and I alone get to make the call on feeding issues with our future children. When he asked what gave me the right to do that I said "the one inch tear in either direction sustained by my fanny, mate". Not a peep from him since on the subject. angry

lisbethsopposite Sun 17-Feb-13 23:52:30

zara you divil! grin

smileyhappymummy Mon 18-Feb-13 00:30:25

Aargh baby has high temperature again - woke up to feed and feels warm, thermometer says 38.2. Reminds me so much of when she ended up in hospital. She is snotty and doesn't look too unwell, but still find it scary - too much knowledge is not a pleasant thing!
Think I am going to be sleeping even worse than usual tonight....

smile4me Mon 18-Feb-13 04:16:40

angelico know what you mean about DHs crashing about when bean's are trying to sleep! Last night DH decided to roll our new driveway to smooth it out... at 8pm. This involves driving around on tractor (very noisy) towing roller (5' diameter large tin can full of stones and water). Sounds like someone crashing saucepans together. And he was surprised to find grumpy DW and DD when he came in grin

livvy That really sucks that DF will be totally preoccupied with uni until July next year! He's missing out on so much with DD too. You've done an awesome job getting this far,especially as you're pretty much living on vegetables alone! There's not many men that could cope with that!

zara shock at your DH's comments.... like you didn't want the same thing? Glad you told him what for later on though smile

smile4me Mon 18-Feb-13 04:17:48

How was your DD overnight smiley ?

smileyhappymummy Mon 18-Feb-13 04:39:02

She's still miserable, temperature going up to around 38.7 but not higher so far. Busy keeping an eye on her.
Can't believe I am meant to be going to work all day Tuesday and Friday this week - she will be at home with her daddy but still, what a week it's going to be. I may just fall asleep at the patients.

hufflepuffle Mon 18-Feb-13 05:18:00

Oh Smiley I hope DD is ok. Xx

smileyhappymummy Mon 18-Feb-13 06:28:48

Thanks huffle she is quite snotty so suspect its probably a cold/other viral thing but still scary. She is snoozing on my lap at the moment and feels hot but not quite as much as earlier. Sleep - or lack of - has plumbed new depths tonight - basically none as she is catnapping for 20 mins or so at a time. roll on GP appt this afternoon,I will probably resemble an utterly deranged madwoman by then and hopefully they will take pity on me and do what I want to pacify me. If not I will probably cry!

squidkid Mon 18-Feb-13 07:50:07

smiley really hope DD is ok and that appointment is useful. Will be thinking of you and check back later xxx

Days are getting longer eh. Just been for a run in the light... I think/hope when the spring arrives we will all feel a bit better.

A friend of the family lost her 10 year old daughter in a skiing accident - my mum rang me to tell me last night just before I went to bed. It is actually all over the news too but thankfully not distasteful or anything - my mum said she couldn't bear to look but I read a couple of articles. I didn't know the little girl but I know her mum a bit, from many years back. I am having trouble processing it and don't know what to say. Don't think I can make it to the funeral but will send a card. I have been crying a bit and didn't put Jess in her cot last night, just had her in bed with me. Terrible thing. What on earth can you say. sad sad sad

crazypaving Mon 18-Feb-13 08:31:32

smiley oh you poor thing sad I hope you manage to catch up on some sleep today, and I hope dd is ok. temps tend to go up ON and come down in the morning don't they? hope that's the case. big strong coffee headed your way brew

squid that's just awful. too young and how horrendous for the parents, on a chosen holiday sad losing a child that way is just too much to contemplate.

I too am enjoying the increase in daylight but wondering if we're going to need to get ds1 a groclock to keep him in bed til 7 over the summer. or is there no point, given that ds2 wakes at 5 every day angry

London hope you're not drowning in boxes! good luck with the unpacking!

livvy and zara am completely shock shock shock by your DPs. if my dh said anything like that to me I honestly have no idea what I'd do. they really have no right to insist on any form of feeding.

this is my last week with ds1 doing his 2 days with his childminder as she's off for 4 weeks. all I can say is aaaaaaaaaaaaagggghhhhhhhhhhh

smileyhappymummy Mon 18-Feb-13 08:33:26

squid that is terrible, there is nothing that can be said is there? Utterly tragic. I will be giving my little girls an extra cuddle today. Take care of yourself too.

Londonmrss Mon 18-Feb-13 08:47:33

Squid how awful. Since having my baby I've realised what a worst fear is. I didn't have one before and I had know idea how much I would love my daughter, i did not know I was even capable of feeling like that. Her poor mum, she must be broken. Let's take a very unmumsnetty moment to be thankful for our healthy babies.

Zara1984 Mon 18-Feb-13 09:30:00

Squid that's so sad. I have a whole raft of new fears now I've had DS. Latest one (after watching Law and Order the other night) is that he'll be abducted in his pram by a paedophile gang confused

Ok so for those of you that are feeling depressed about jeans/pants etc. I went shopping the other day as I'm miles off fitting my pre-preg stuff yet. Was getting disheartened that all the jeans were low rise muffin-inducing things, until I had a cringeworthy eureka moment. I needed Mum Jeans. blush So I went to M&S and got some stretchy jeans/jeggings. Waist comes to just below my belly button (perfect size for big pants underneath confused). Comfy, pulls in tum. Have had compliments since wearing them that my weight is coming off. Oh the shame. Feel the fear and do it anyway, ladies. I found that M&S and H&M are good hunting ground for new mummy clothes. M&S for the comfort, H&M for some sense of style.

OctoberOctober Mon 18-Feb-13 09:56:48

Think I may have to bite the bullet and get some mum jeans too as no chance of fitting in pre preg ones. Good tip about h and m, I had assumed they would have tiny sizes.

turnwest Mon 18-Feb-13 09:57:13

Hi, can someone remove me from the Facebook group or tell me how to remove myself? I m so jealous of all your beautiful happy babies when mine just screams all day long, I wish I had anyone's baby apart from mine, I hate him. I m a terrible ,terrible person. I wanted another baby so much but I can't do it so I m working out a way to leave them, maybe I ll go abroad and work in a bar or something but I don't want my life anymore and my children will be far better off without me.

Anyway, good luck everyone, your babies are all absolutely beautiful, I m sorry I have nt posted more. Bye.

turnwest Mon 18-Feb-13 10:00:51

I worked out how to leave group.xxx

Angelico Mon 18-Feb-13 10:02:53

Turnwest are you okay? I haven't joined FB group but I remember your name from on MN. I'm sorry you're feeling so awful sad It might help you to read through this thread and the last few and you'll see there are lots of screamy babies. Venturing a guess but have you been diagnosed with PND? And if not could you go along to your GP? x

smileyhappymummy Mon 18-Feb-13 10:05:33

turnwest sorry don't know how to do facebooky things but wanted to post and say I'm worried about you. You sound really depressed and not very well right now. You are not a terrible person, you are struggling with something incredibly difficult - having children is far and away the hardest thing I've ever done - and not all babies are easy. Your children need you though, you are their mummy, no one else can do that so please don't leave them.
Does anyone in RL know how you're feeling? Please show someone this post, and I wonder if maybe you should be back to see your GP - from reading this I think it may well be depression making you feel like a terrible person because you aren't, you really aren't.
I think also we only post the good bits on Facebook often - I know I do!
Sending you lots of hugs and please take care,

Angelico Mon 18-Feb-13 10:17:44

Zara I reckon that fanjo tear is a free pass in a whole variety of arguments! wink

Smiley sorry you had such a shit night sad Really hope you get some joy at the GP today. Personally I would have no hesitation in breaking down and begging for what I wanted as they need to see the impact this is having on you and your family, not just your bean!

Smile4Me aaaarrgggggghhhh, I know the very machine you are referring to and only a nutter - or a man - would try to use it round a sleeping baby!!!

Squid that is such sad news sad Like others I find myself thinking about these things now. Having a child makes you more vulnerable than pretty much anything else sad Honestly don't know what you to say to someone other than that you're thinking of them.

Crazy do you have a blackout blind?

On jeans my utterly bizarre body will not fit in lots of new jeans even in a size up. However just found all my old 'thin' jeans (bagged up during pregnancy and house move, didn't fit in them pre-preg) and I fit into them fine. WTAF is going on with my body?! Am I supposed to live in the same few pairs of jeans for the rest of time?!

Anyway am going to attempt that 5-2 diet once bean is part weaned. People seem to be getting great results from it over on the diet threads but isn't recommended when EBF. I'd like to shift about a stone which will bring me into BMI 26 which I can live with. Also apparently once you've done a few fast days they actually start to become enjoyable - people find they get very alert and clear minded.

Parents are visiting today so going to go and wake the bean so I can buy some food! x

Zara1984 Mon 18-Feb-13 10:21:10

Turnwest please go see your GP. Just for a chat. Tell him or her how you're feeling. Please xxxx

Zara1984 Mon 18-Feb-13 10:23:52

Turnwest and please come talk to us. We're listening and want to help thanks

Londonmrss Mon 18-Feb-13 10:26:54

turnwest please please talk to us if you feel able. This is anonymous and we don't judge. If you read back you'll know that we all struggle sometimes to varying degrees and it's definitely not plain sailing all the way. I can safely say you are not a terrible person, but you are obviously really struggling right now. I can't remember your personal situation- do you have a partner? Have you been able to talk to anyone about your feelings? Have you felt like this from the start?

crazypaving Mon 18-Feb-13 10:37:31

turnwest well done for posting here how you feel - it isn't easy to do that, and you are not a terrible person. I had pnd with ds1 and I used to hate him too. I now know why - I wasn't well, and he screamed constantly. please tell someone in real life how you feel - you need support. please please don't go away, come back here and keep posting. I wish I'd had a group like this to talk to with ds1, I think it would've made a huge difference. big big hug for you - please please talk to someone xx

crazypaving Mon 18-Feb-13 10:45:11

turnwest where do you live? can I come and help?

cherrycherry41 Mon 18-Feb-13 11:49:49

Zara has just reminded me on another thread that i forgot to add to my introduction the other day that im also carrying number 2! due october 2013 grin
Must say it was weird going to the midwife this morning!

Hope everyone is well xx

squidkid Mon 18-Feb-13 11:52:25

Turnwest I agree with what everyone is saying - you are NOT a terrible person, but you don't sound well at all. If you speak to someone in real life (a friend, or a doctor) theywill say the same. Do you have friends or family around?
Crying babies are such hard work - there are many crying babies here - there are kind supportive un-judgmental people here - please speak to us.

cherrycherry41 Mon 18-Feb-13 11:56:05

oh gosh, just read down the thread.. turnwest please reply, let us know youre ok... we can help you xxthanks

crazypaving Mon 18-Feb-13 11:57:37

cherry wow!!!! congratulations!! how are you feeling?

Londonmrss Mon 18-Feb-13 12:05:26

cherry, I think you might be the bravest woman in the world... Congratulations!

turnwest hope you're still reading and will find the strength to keep talking.

cherrycherry41 Mon 18-Feb-13 12:07:41

Tired! but overall truely blessed and excited smile Im quite lucky to have no bad symptoms and a very well behaved DD, still in shock! x

Smorgs Mon 18-Feb-13 12:47:01

turnwest it might be worth calling these people www.cry-sis.org.uk/ if you don't feel up to speaking to a friend/ partner or the doctor. Please remember Facebook is the edited highlights of our lives. Rarely do people post about the utterly frustrating, depressing or just plain dull times. I can guarantee you the vast majority of us have felt like giving up sometimes. You are not a terrible person, you are normal but just going through an abnormally stressful experience.

Turnwest, please keep posting on here and let us know you're ok. No one here will judge you, you're not a bad person, you're just going through a really tough time.
Facebook is definitely just the "good bits" there are many unseen, difficult bits in between, but everybody has a different baby, and there is absolutely nothing to say we wouldn't all feel exactly the same as you if we were in your particular situation.
I don't what I can say to really help, but I do know that your family will not be better off without you.

Squid, that's awful, I'm so sorry. I really can't imagine anything worse. thanks

Wow congratulations Cherrycherry! (And welcomegrin)

londonlivvy Mon 18-Feb-13 17:13:37

Thank yo everyone for the support with DF being a nobber. He has apologised and we are friends again. A walk in the sunshine with a friend at lunchtime has helped morale, through dd refused to sleep and thus has been screamy and miserable all afternoon. She is officially over tired.

On which note, turnwest, I moan about my dd screaming lots. She is far from perfect. But any pics on Facebook tnd to be when she's happy. If she's crying I'm generally trying to soothe her. So please be reassured that I'm not living in some Disney pampers tv ad of blissful baby love in. Babies are hard work, and some much harder than others. Huge hugs to you in thus difficult time and please please don't feel you have to be positive when posting here. You all have been so wonderfully supportive of me during some mighty tough times. I have frequently debated just walking out the door and not coming back. You're not alone and you're not a terrible mum. Hugs again.

Thanks to everyone for the support re limited diet and move to formula. The diet isn't too bad at home - I have found replacements like oat milk for cereal, and breads without forbidden ingredients, it's just eating out that is problematic. Still, I'm allowed steak and chips so it's not all bad news.

Squid. What awful news. I'm so sorry. As (I think) londonmrss said, the level of love we have for our beans means to think about their loss is so much worse. Awful. And zara, I'm incredibly paranoid about someone stealing dd as I was taken when I was two. (Short version is someone took me at a fair, the police Surrounded it and did lots of announcements etc and i was found hidden in a caravan. Only a couple of hours, I was too young to remember, just my mother's panic every time we went anywhere subsequently, gripping my hand tightly ).

Angelico Mon 18-Feb-13 17:20:16

Congrats cherrycherry ! smile We were thinking about trying again soon - almost went for it in January, then the dreaded sleep regression hit and was left thinking 'Am I fucking mental having another one of these?!' Probably won't wait too long though. Good luck with your pregnancy smile thanks

Livvy that's mad about you being pinched - like something out of a film! shock Your poor mum must have been left confused - but glad there was such a swift response and a happy ending!

Parents up for first time in months and babysitting this evening. Unfortunately it's half term and we live in touristy area so everywhere is fecking swarming and we can't go anywhere nice angry Completely forgot it was HT with being off work! confused Anyway, trying new place just round the corner.

squidkid Mon 18-Feb-13 18:20:45

Damn it!! I had a bet (with ... er... myself) that Angelico was going to be the first one of us re-up-duffed! Just kidding - congrats cherrycherry, you must have enjoyed pregnancy more than most of us grin Do tell us about all the symptoms, it will probably be very effective contraception, haha.

I am definitely leaning towards having another kid when Jess is 3-4 years old. Ideally i won't get my periods back for years either wishful thinking

Those that have stopped bf, are your breasts back to normal? Do they go back to normal? I am not really considering giving up for ages, just curious... I had very nice DDs... I miss them. I am probably only one cup size up now in fairness (was more like an F a month or two ago)

On the jeans front, I got some from dorothy perkins that weren't mum-jeans but weren't trendy low-slung muffin-inducing either. Cheap too.

Had a day not doing very much - feel a bit flat - Jess whinged at me because it was very boring - has perked up since boyfriend has come home.
I guess this proves my theory about going out doing stuff every day being good for both of us...

Ah, I feel a bit teary and sad.

Cheesymonster Mon 18-Feb-13 18:35:45

turnwest I really feel for you. Please try and speak to your doctor or health visitor. I was diagnosed with pnd in December and those first few weeks with DD were hell. Many times I wanted to leave, just jump in the car and drive away and she would be better off without me. I wished i could give her to someone else to raise and just go back to the way I was before I had her. I said terrible things to my DH i am ashamed to admit and he was so scared. I am on fluoxetine and feel like a different person now. Please ask for professional help. I am thinking of you.

Zara1984 Mon 18-Feb-13 19:12:41

Squid my tits since stopping bf are saggy and deflated. Am 38E, same size I was through most of pregnancy. Nips are getting smaller but they are still dark. They always feel soft and squooshy and never hard at different times of the month. They're not exciting tits, that's for sure...

Cherrycherry, Angelico... When I was bathing DS tonight I was thinking (b/c feeling morose after paying deposit for nursery today, and seeing 2 pregnant friends for lunch today)... "Maybe I should have another one soon... Oooh... A Christmas baby?!" Then was like "WHAT THE FUCK AM I THINKING". DS started screaming in my ear when he picked me up so that shook me to my senses too. In all seriousness, my job has 2 years to go from April (funding runs out after that) so in my head I would like to plan DC2 to coincide with that, ie April 2015....

Londonmrss Mon 18-Feb-13 19:12:42

I wonder if we should try to contact a member of turnwest's family via facebook. I really don't like interfere with someone's personal business, but she sounds so alone and lost and I can't bear to let someone sink without at least trying to throw them a lifeboat. Does anyone have any thoughts?

Zara1984 Mon 18-Feb-13 19:14:24

I was thinking the same Londonmrs, I've been thinking about turnwest all day. I don't want to overstep the mark but I am so worried about her. I am very worried that she hasn't returned to post again.

Zara1984 Mon 18-Feb-13 19:15:44

I don't mind sending a message if others don't think that's too interfering? Turnwest are you out there?

Oh god. 9 pages already and I'm pretty sure I missed the last three on the last thread.

<waves> at everyone, hope you are all ok- back soon after a mega catch up!! x

BoraBora Mon 18-Feb-13 19:43:45

Hi all, I've been thinking the same RE contacting someone in RL about Turnwest. I think she needs support, and she needs it now

Cheesymonster Mon 18-Feb-13 19:52:19

I agree re turnwest

smileyhappymummy Mon 18-Feb-13 19:57:46

I agree - perhaps we could try pm first both here and via Facebook to her personally? But I also feel she need RL support sooner rather than later.

squidkid Mon 18-Feb-13 20:01:16

I know very little about turnwest. I don't think she posted much? I am always wary of interfering, but I really agree it seems impossible to let this lie without at least extending a hand... poor, poor girl sounds so lost.

Could you send her a message on facebook first, saying you are worried and are going to contact her family? So it's not like going behind her back? (Would you be able to do that? I don't really understand facebook well) Maybe she isn't checking here any more?

Zara1984 Mon 18-Feb-13 20:07:58

Yes squid that's a good idea. Have been re-reading her post and it sounds like she didn't plan to post further?

I'll send her a message now via MN private message and via Facebook.

Woolybob Mon 18-Feb-13 20:09:30

Just catching up - is anyone fb friends with turnwest?

If you are still reading this I hope you're ok, would echo what others say, fb pictures are always edited highlights/best bits. We've all had our share of screamathons. You def sound like you may have PND, there is help out there, you are not alone or a terrible mother and your children need you. Please talk to us. Or call crysis. 08451 228669, they can put you in contact with someone near you who has been through the same xxx

crazypaving Mon 18-Feb-13 20:15:12

turnwest just to add that I've been thinking of you all day. Really hope you're ok. How old is your older DC? Man it's tough with 2, tougher than I ever imagined. We're all here to hold your hand.

I think maybe a personal message via FB to turnwest might be a good idea? Not sure what I think about contacting her family.

Angelico to answer your earlier question, I have double layered blackout blinds in DS1's room! grin Never quite blocks out 100% though... OCD...

Smorgs Mon 18-Feb-13 20:17:00

I agree re turnwest I'v been thinking about her all day and wondering what is happening. I wish I could help her. I think contacting her directly is the best thing - however, I think unless you are friends with someone on facebook your message goes into their 'others' folder, which not a lot of people seem to know about and therefore do not check. Maybe Kyyria could contact her as I assume she is still friends with her from when we started the page? Then the message would go into her normal message folder. Sorry Kyyria I know you're busy - please just say if you don't feel comfortable doing that.

squid I'm so, so sorry to hear about your family friend. I read that story earlier this week. Just so desperately sad.

DH just cut a chunk off DS's little finger while cutting his nails. He screamed and screamed in pain. There's quite a big bit missing from the top of his finger pad. I know it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things but I feel wretched and DH is beside himself, bless him. Do you think it will grow back?

lisbethsopposite Mon 18-Feb-13 20:22:03

turnwest mine looks like a future ASBO holder - he is often scratched and bloody from eczema.
What can I say, I enjoy none of this when I'm down or tired. It is often overwhelming. I have help, or else I would hate it all. I have a 2 1/2 yr old toddler.
I know you said you have some history with PND - how many children have you and have you any help in RL? I am in Ireland so probably not much help to you but we are from all over here ... Where are you?
<<virtual hug>>

Zara1984 Mon 18-Feb-13 20:25:42

Ok I have messaged turnwest via MN and FB.

This is what I said. I'm going to post it here too in case she is reading.

Just dropping you a line smile because we've all been thinking of you today after your post. We're worried about you!

It sounds like perhaps maybe you could be suffering from postnatal depression? I haven't had PND but I have suffered from depression and I know what it's like when you feel like you can't turn left or right and the only thing to do is escape. Like your life has no purpose and you don't deserve the things you have.

You're NOT a terrible person. You did the right thing by posting about your feelings on the thread, rather than keeping them to yourself. Your children love YOU and need YOU, their wonderful mummy.

When I was struggling with breastfeeding, DS would just scream and scream all the time. In fact he screamed a lot for the first couple of months. I started to think that it would be best if DH looked after him, then they would both be better off. When I started to think like that I talked to my husband and my mother-in-law who was staying with me, and to my friends. I also talked about it on the thread with the other ladies. It so helped to just know that somebody else knew what I was feeling.

Please talk to your family, and friends. Please go and see your GP, this week. Please call CrySis on 08451 228669, they can put you in touch with someone nearby who has gone through the same as you.

If you want to talk, there's always someone on the thread. Or you can Skype me anytime, my username is <xx>.

You're not alone. You're a good mum. You get up every day and you look after your children, you feed them, clothe them and give them a nice warm home.

Please reach out and get help. Please xxx

Smorgs Mon 18-Feb-13 20:31:56

Well done zara, that's perfect. I really hope she is reading.

Beccus Mon 18-Feb-13 21:00:29

turnwest, it's really, really hard being a mummy & the hormonal changes & sleep deprivation can make u very unwell. i have certainly had times where i felt i couldn't cope and regretted having a baby. Your family love you. u will feel so much better if u can talk to someone in real life. really hope u r ok. thx zara

smileyhappymummy Mon 18-Feb-13 21:39:37

Thank you zara perfect message.

Katla Mon 18-Feb-13 21:56:57

Turnwest I echo what the other ladies have said - please seek some help, this baby wrangling is the hardest thing I've ever done and I just have one to deal with, Facebook is definitely the edited highlights too. Hugs.

Olivess Mon 18-Feb-13 22:10:49

In total agreement with everyone here - turnwest big hug to you. When you hit the bottom things can only get better from now on just sometimes you need a little help from other people....please take Zara's advice...thinking of you x

Angelico Mon 18-Feb-13 23:36:20

Oh no was hoping turnwest would have returned sad Great message Zara and turnwest we've all been thinking about you today. Please don't feel alone. Every single one of us has struggled at times, especially with relentless crying. It is the pits.

Squid on baby front I honestly was tempted in Jan blush - I blame giant Irish family-in-law and their thousands of kids grin Then when the two weeks of sleepless hell struck we realised that the next bean might not be as (relatively) easy as DD and probably better to wait till she's weaned / gnashers etc have appeared and hopefully the worst is over! smile Am currently leaning towards April / May although will be more relaxed if I take a career break... Zara I have a total horror of Xmas babies but only because I have visions of going into labour in a snow drift or something! wink

Crazy they are never dark enough are they? I love the concept of the blackout blind but it's like the perfect mascara, it doesn't exist!

Smorgs poor DS and your poor DH. If it makes him feel any better we still haven't dared to cut DD's claws - I file them when they get lethal but the baby scissors are so thick she would need actual talons before they were any use hmm

Night all and sleep tight x

hufflepuffle Tue 19-Feb-13 00:33:26

Oh. I didn't read here for a bit. I am so sad and annoyed.

Turnwest I can only agree with everyone else. You are not not not a bad person and your babies are not better off without you. I hope you are still reading and know we support you. And yes, these are our edited lives.

I feel so flippant now with my whinges.

Zara thank you for contacting her on our behalf.

Man, shit. Don't know what else to say.


smile4me Tue 19-Feb-13 01:29:08

turnwest I can only echo what everyone else has said, FB makes me look like a Stepford wife with a perfect DD who is happy 24/7... reality is I don't take photos of DD when she's grumpy cos 1. i'm too busy desperately tring to shove a boob in her mouth calm her down, and 2. I don't want to remember those bits (although may be good contraception? ), my house is a permanent state of mess and I spend most days covered in spew. Please talk to someone (even if it's not us), I know how easy it is to hide these feelings from the people that love you because you are afraid of what they will think of you, but honestly it really is what you need to do. <<hugs>>

Cherrycherry shock and congratulations! Can i ask a stupid question, but how did you know? Have often wondered this cos If it was me I would have just assumed my cycles (if I had a period back) were just as cocked up as ever!

livvy OMG I can't believe someone actually tried to snatch you! So glad you don't remember it but your poor mum! I have 2 paranoid delusions at the moment, that someone will come in the house and kill me and DH and poor DD would be alone and crying for days on end then die of starvation before someone realised! And the other is that there'll be a big earthquake and something will squash her in her cot, or me in bed and I won't be able to get to her! There have been a couple of trials here recently of people who have killed babies by kicking/shaking/hitting them and whenever I see it on the news it just makes me want to hug DD close and never let go!

I wonder if a lot of the clinics are staffed by volunteers rather than HVs october could definitely explain a lot of the shite advice people are getting!

One of the girls in my baby group has recently switched to FF because she was told her DS was hungry because her milk wasn't rich enough for him. Has anyone else heard anything like this? I always thought that was a load of crap, but this came from a HV (a real one not a volunteer) confused

Thanks for doing that Zara.
I want to do something to help, but I don't think that we should contact any friends or family on Facebook, as we have no idea who's sympathetic or trusted.

I really hope you're still reading Turn, and can tell your partner or someone how you're feeling. Things can get better, you just need to take that first step.

Livvy, I can't believe you were abducted! shock Your poor mum.
DH was away on business last night and I had visions of tripping over the gas heater hose on the way to the toilet in the middle of the night, getting injured and being unable to get up and take care of DS. Random.
Arrgh to wedding stresses. I wanted a tiny, simple wedding to avoid all that, but there were still plenty of issues. confused

Katla, the toe-sucking baby really made me chuckle. I wonder what odd/embarrassing quirks ours will have when they're a bit older?
DS is also fascinated by my tea mug, what's that all about?!

Glad you could talk to your DH Elpis, hope you got it all straightened out.

Well, we didn't have any more "rolls" until this morning when he kind of fell onto his back again. He didn't know whether to laugh or cry, and I still didn't catch it on video. He's great at "swimming" round in circles though and getting his gorgeous bum up in the air and pushing forward. grin

Went back to aqua aerobics for the first time since giving birth. So much easier than when I was 8 months pregnant, and great to get moving again. Still felt it in my muscles though blush

smileyhappymummy Tue 19-Feb-13 06:59:13

Well, baby smiley is less hot now but still super snotty and has been awake half (actually probably more) of the night. She is now howling and refusing to feed. I have 35 minutes before I have to go to work. This is horrible.

Smorgs Tue 19-Feb-13 07:12:47

smiley I'm glad she's a bit better but that's so hard, I'm sorry. At least you know she will be with her daddy, a familiar face, all day. But still so tough [brew[

Smorgs Tue 19-Feb-13 07:13:07


squidkid Tue 19-Feb-13 07:36:57

God smiley I really feel for you.... glad little one is a bit better but ughhh poor you... drunk lots of coffee... fingers crossed for a morning of UTIs, uncomplicated med reviews and pill checks!!

Thank you for writing to turnwest, Zara, lovely message.

Poor Livvy, can't believe you were abducted. Thank god for happy ending to story... My parents once lost me in Kathmandu for nearly 24 hours, I was 4 years old but they are just fucking careless like that

squidkid Tue 19-Feb-13 07:38:36

I am going to Baby Sensory today, bit worried I might have hysterics after last week's cardboard doves/Titanic montage

turnwest Tue 19-Feb-13 09:20:59

Hi, I m still here, I saw the messages on facebook and could nt believe people who dont even know me would take the trouble to contact me, thank you so much. I have been depressed for a while, started in pregnancy and its got better then worse then better but yesterday was a terrible day, I was so frightened and sad about the feelings of dislike I was having for my poor DS. I am going to the GP tomorrow and will ask for help, its not his fault. Sometimes I feel so frustrated though because he cries a lot in the day, wont go in his bouncy chair, hates the jumperoo, hates the bumbo and he s big, nearly 18 pounds, straining the legs of his 6-9 months babygrows and I m 5,2 and petite, my shoulders are killing me from carrying him around all day. Yesterday, he was screaming, would nt nap anywhere and my poor 5 yr old DD who is off school on half term wanted me too and I felt so awful because I feel like she is missing out at the moment, I dont get to spend the time with her that I used to and I miss her.

Anyway, even though I m sat here in tears writing this, today I do feel better, I m going to attempt the park with both of them later in the sunshine, and my mother in law is having DS tomorrow afternoon so hopefully things will pick up again. I just wish that DS would laugh or roll over or chat but he does nt, he is a very serious little boy. But he does smile sometimes, and he has started to lift his arms up to me whenever he is sat with his daddy and I pass by, the laughs will come.

Thankyou for everyones kind words, I ll be ok, I hope one day I can help someone else who is going through the dame thing.

Beccus Tue 19-Feb-13 09:21:15

smiley, that is just utterly sh1t. how did u get on with ur gp appt? congrats cherry!

FirstTimeForEverything Tue 19-Feb-13 09:25:15

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Beccus Tue 19-Feb-13 09:29:27

turnwest, so relieved & happy to hear from u, glad u r still reading & feelong a bit better today. i hate it when dd wont be put down & is bored with everything at home, too. she is only a little un at a bit over 5kg, but too heavy to carry about & i cant do anything when i hold her. the council run baby groups r my saviour - free entertainment for dd! the smiles & laughs make all the hard work worthwhile, so it's extra tough & thankless without them. being a mum is like a sisterhood - u have no idea how tough it is until u do it, this board is a great source of support for all of us, even though we dont know each other. so happy to have heard from u smile

Olivess Tue 19-Feb-13 09:30:39

So glad to hear you're feeling a bit more positive turnwest. I cannot even begin to imagine dealing with 2 DCs so I think all of you doing this are absolute stars. It's great you are going to the GP and I'm sure having the mother in law round will help loads to ease the pressure. The sunshine is a great healer as well...oh and cake.

YompingJo Tue 19-Feb-13 09:32:20

I've got a baby sensory taster session tomorrow... better get practising my poker face!

turnwest, I hope you're still reading. I read your post last night but have not been well and didn't want to write a rubbish reply so have waited until this morning. Firstly, when you put up a picture of you and your daughter on the Facebook group, my first thought was "what a beautiful family!". Secondly, I just want you to know that I think I can understand what you're feeling. I have been on the edges of pnd and I have issues with anger that often make me think I am not the best mum for dd and she and DH would be better off without me. And sometimes all I can do when she cries is go of into another room and have a shooting, punching the walls tantrum, then come back and cry with her. Sometimes when I'm feeling down, I look at her and I don't see my little girl and I don't feel love for her, I just see this noisy thing, lying there and screaming even though her every need is provided for. Today is a day like that. I'm ill and exhausted and she won't sleep so she is awake more, needs constant interaction and I just don't have it in me today. I am just going to have to try not to be mean her and hang on in there until 6:30 when DH gets home. And I don't like her for making me feel like that. And I don't like myself for feeling like that, for having no sympathy for her. At times these, I think I have made a terrible mistake and should not have had her. These times are truly shit, worse than the sleepless nights (read back a few pages, God have I moaned about the sleepless nights), worse than her headstrong personality which means she sometimes will not sleep in the day. Worse than the fact that she won't take a bottle so I can't have a break even when I am feeling ill. But you know what? These times pass. They will pass for you too. And when they have passed (which happens more quickly if I can talk to someone, anyone - DH, my doctor, a couple, a friend, a stranger in the greengrocers (hell, who cares if they judge me, I'll never see them again), or the ladies on here), I remember that I do provide for her, I feed her, I take care of her, I play with her. Not all babies are lucky enough to have these basics so even if that is all I can do for her some days, I am still doing a good job and being a good mum. As are you! My dd is upset often because she wants to be able to do more than she can, or because she is feeling poorly (she has reflux, colds, bad wind, pain from jabs - poor mite), but both of these things will get better with time. She is beautiful (as are your children) and she puts all her trust in me because she instinctively knows I can take care of her. These are the things to remember, these are the important things. These are the things that will last - the bad feelings are just temporary, even though it doesn't feel like at the time.

I really hope you talk someone, I know it will make you feel so much better, and less alone. You are doing great and your children are lucky to have you xxx

YompingJo Tue 19-Feb-13 09:34:51

turnwest, I cross posted with you! So very glad you're still reading and that you're feeling better x

Londonmrss Tue 19-Feb-13 09:45:59

relieved to hear from you turnwest. stay with us and have a nice day in the sun!

Orenishii Tue 19-Feb-13 09:56:52

turnwest so glad you've posted again. You've gotta know you're not alone and we've all felt similar things smile There's been times I've been 100% positive that DS would be better off without me, that I am not the best thing for him. I know that's hormones speaking - because it's such an irrational thing to think. I've shouted at him, I've pulled his arm just that bit too much roughly, I've felt the bitter shame of all this. You are not alone and I'm really glad the fog has cleared enough for you to get some help, from your GP and from your family. We're not meant to raise children alone. We need a tribe and to reassure you, in addition to those you have in r/l, you have this October 2012 tribe around you xx

FirstTimeForEverything Tue 19-Feb-13 10:04:29

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Londonmrss Tue 19-Feb-13 11:29:53

Oren, I like the description of us as a tribe.

One year ago today, I found out I was pregnant. I joined this group around 12 weeks and since then you ladies have provided me with lots of support and lots of giggles. I look forward to continuing this journey with you. Thank you, friends.

<bleugh at the sentimentality>

Zara1984 Tue 19-Feb-13 11:36:05

Yay turnwest!! You have no idea how pleased I was to read your post. That is brilliant that you are going to the GP and will have MIL taking DS tomorrow. You are a champ, you really are. We're all rooting for you, love! thanks

God, some days doing this mothering lark are really shit. But as Yomping says, if you are feeding, clothing and playing with them you are ahead of the curve. There are days when all I can see is me turning into my mother and then DS never wanting to see me ever again, just like my family. In fact I worry about that most days for at least a few moments! You have just got to get your backside out the house (like you'e doing today!), have a cup of tea, call a friend, rant to us, whatever. Take your mind off those shitty feelings.

Also I have a big boy too and my thumbs are constantly having sharp pains run down them. I've found holding DS frontwards on the diagonal often helps because then I can hold him with my whole hands, if that makes sense.

And if your DS is crying inconsolably, and your DD needs you - well, there's not a thing wrong with plonking DS in his cot for 5 minutes while he cries. Or stick DD in front of the telly, or give her some sweets, whatever works to get you 5-10 minutes. Nothing at all wrong with that. You are one woman. You do what you have to do! Most nights DS howls blue murder on his play mat while I run around for 20 mins getting his bits ready for bath and bed etc. DMIL (who is about as close as you can get to a breezy lentil-weaving mother who had no problems with her kids) told me she used to regularly pour frozen peas on the tray of DSIL's high chair for her to play with so she could get half an hour with my DH!! I told her she was just doing BLW, she just didn't know it grin grin

Anyway, the point is that you are here and we are listening. So are your family. So is your GP. smile

Smorgs Tue 19-Feb-13 11:43:43

Great to hear from you turnwest, thanks for posting again and letting us know how you are getting on. I'm glad your mil is going to help you out. It's a great idea to get outside in the sun. You sound like a great mum who is trying to do her best for both DCs. I'm having one of those days where ds will not stop crying and it makes me amazed at how any of you cope with two.

livvy and squid I am shock at your stories! We joke in my family that I always went missing as a child but in reality the worst time was getting lost in a ski resort for 3 hours. A nice Swiss man found me and took me back to his family house and gave me hot chocolate. Not exactly as dramatic as being found hidden in a caravan?!

So in the last week I have bumped the car (not serious but car damaged) and fallen off a chairlift in front of about 200 people (again, nothing hurt except my pride). Think I really need to get more sleep confused

Londonmrss Tue 19-Feb-13 12:04:21

My mum once lost me in Sainsbury's for about 10 minutes. I was 4. I still haven't forgiven her.

Londonmrss Tue 19-Feb-13 12:04:47

She found me in the vegetable section.

crazypaving Tue 19-Feb-13 12:12:36

turnwest god I'm so pleased to hear from you. I'm so so so sorry you're struggling so badly. I've been in a similar position to you, and I remember the blackness and despair so clearly. you have to know it will get better. you won't feel like this forever. and seeing your GP is such an important first step, well done you. don't be afraid when you go, if they're any good at all they will be nothing but sympathetic and supportive.

it is so hard having a baby who won't be put down and doesn't give much back. I second the other poster (sorry on phone, can't remember whoblush ) who said to put ds in his cot to cry for a few mins while you have a bit of a cuddle with dd. I am forced to do that every now and then, and it's not ideal but ds2 is fine! healthy, happy and thriving. and I bet both your children are too, and it's only you suffering. if you can take a step back and really look, you'll see they are perfect children who are having all their needs met by their amazing mother in spite of the way you feel. you are doing brilliantly. and you're definitely not the only one who feels inadequate! god being a parent is quite possibly the hardest thing anyone can ever do. but hold on to hope - remember how things got easier with your dd - they will with ds too.

so many hugs for you xxx

crazypaving Tue 19-Feb-13 12:13:54

x-post London - you could at least,'ve made a dash for the sweets! grin

crazypaving Tue 19-Feb-13 12:31:58

oh I forgot - tried ds2 in the ergo again yesterday. he didn't cry and it blew my mind - so comfortable I was barely aware I was carrying him. highly recommended!

So glad you came back Turnwest, and that things seem a bit clearer today. It's great you're going to the doctor, that's a big step.
Enjoy the sunshine today!

I love the idea of our tribe too Oren, wish you'd do a bit more sweeping in my hut though.hmmwink

You do make me laugh, London, you nobber.

What were you doing for all that time you were missing Squid?!

I like the Ergo too Crazy, when I get it right. One day I put it on and it feels great, then another day it feels like my spine's being crushed or DS is too high/low/slumped, even though I'm sure I've done everything the same. confused

hufflepuffle Tue 19-Feb-13 14:28:30

Turnwest I am so v v glad that firstly you faced your fears and posted here. That was perhaps the first step? And we'll done on going to see GP. You are bloody brilliant. There is light, we ALL promise. Don't be a stranger, rant, cry and curse on here as much as you need to.

So pleased to see you posting

X x x

I am absolutely knackered. Sunshine may induce serious walking for me. But who am I kidding?? On 3 hr max sleep blocks.


And he is getting cranky. Too nice to shush him up and down hall. Out again.


crazypaving Tue 19-Feb-13 14:34:05

anyone know if it's unusual for ds2's ears to be producing loads of wax? confused no fever or cold, just loads of yellow wax! yuck

huffle we're getting 3hr blocks too, sometimes 2. massive yawn. I have a permanent headache. you have my sympathies!

londonlivvy Tue 19-Feb-13 14:45:58

So glad you're getting help turnwest and that you're sticking around here too. We all go through rough patches and you love ly mumsnet ladies have cheered me up no end.

Dd is v snotty and miserable today. Boo. And a 20 min farting screamathon, followed by poo, I assume means her tum was sore, and not v happy about the 2oz of formula in 5oz that I gave her this morning. Maternal guilt, right there. Sigh.

squidkid Tue 19-Feb-13 15:20:48

Very glad to hear from you turnwest. Sunshine and mother in law is good... and I really hope the doctor is kind and helpful. Depression is incredibly hard - depression with a baby even more so. Keep in touch.

Baby sensory was not quite as ridiculous today, lots of coloured balloons. The glam brigade were out in force (they are perfectly nice girls, I just have nothing in common with them!!) chatting about where they get their nails done and so on. But I spoke to a nice girl with a 12 week old who recognised me from pregnancy yoga and another quiet but interesting girl who is a student who had a surprise pregnancy. She said she was planning to wait 10 years for the next one! I like her actually and she is studying nutrition and going back in September and I chatted about my job a bit and I look forward to seeing her again next week. Man, this is like school.

Jess remains the best baby ever - insisting on standing up throughout (with my fingers for balance) "chatting" loudly at the woman running the class for the best part of 10 minutes, everyone was giggling

Then I got home and realised I had forgotten to take Jess for her jabs yesterday. Bad mum!!! I grovelled to the receptionist at the surgery who told me I'd have to wait a month. I had already moved them back 2 weeks to hang out with my mates and eat cake a couple of weeks ago. Bad bad bad mum!! So I pleaded to speak to the nurse and she is fitting me in at 5. I will have my apologetic face on....

Smorgs Tue 19-Feb-13 15:25:30

Oh God, I've just received the most heartbreaking email from one of my friends. I knew they were trying to get pregnant the same time as us, but as I hadn't heard anything, I assumed things weren't going to plan and didn't want to get in touch for fear of 'rubbing it in'. Anyway, it turns out she was pregnant but a scan picked up that the baby had a rare condition called Posterior Urethra Valve. There was a high chance he wouldn't survive the pregnancy and even if he did, was very likely to have renal failure and need a transplant. So they had a termination last week. I don't know how far gone she was, but it was at least 4 months. I can't imagine what they are going through. I am struggling to know what to say to her. What would you say?

FirstTimeForEverything Tue 19-Feb-13 16:03:31

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BoraBora Tue 19-Feb-13 16:20:29

So much sadness on this thread lately. Good wishes to all those that need them.

turnwest thank you for coming back. It takes bravery to admit when things are hard. It's important to keep talking, even when you want to withdraw. Very well done for deciding to see the GP. I hope he or she is useful. If not, come back and tell us and we'll help you form a plan B.

On the subject of getting lost; I disappeared in a department store for about an hour when I was three.. When they found me I was naked. When they asked me what happened I told them that I'd taken off all of my clothes because I was too hot. Can't fault the logic...

Smorgs Tue 19-Feb-13 16:22:53

That's sad too firsttime, but nice she is pregnant again.

I am just so crap at giving advice for friends, I always seem to say the wrong thing. I've written to her saying I think she did the right thing, the kindest thing and that they will make wonderful parents one day. I just couldn't think what else to say?

squidkid Tue 19-Feb-13 16:27:24

smorgs it's just good of you to say something. You can't make it better, but people are often silent when faced with others' pain and that can make it so isolating. So good of you to write something nice, even though it is useless.

I am having the same trouble trying to work out what to write to this friend of my mum's who's lost her daughter. But i guess it's just important to write, something.

FirstTimeForEverything Tue 19-Feb-13 16:30:42

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FirstTimeForEverything Tue 19-Feb-13 16:33:54

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Smorgs Tue 19-Feb-13 17:18:13

I cant imagine what your mums friend is going through squid. Losing a child is everyone's worst nightmare.

Olivess Tue 19-Feb-13 17:37:57

smorgs I had a miscarriage last christmas. It was a missed miscarriage and quite early so nothing like losing a baby post 4 months. However we had been trying for over 2 years so it hit me hard. It was interesting to see other people's responses. Some people were great, called me, asked about it head on which I far preferred to the people that didn't say anything out of awkwardness. I was quite disappointed with my best friend who I met to go shopping with afterwards and she didn't ask me how I was until we had been out for about 2 hours. I think she just didn't want me to get upset but still... The only person that sent a card was my boss who just sent a card saying 'thinking of you'. I was very touched. What I am waffling about is that I don't think it matters too much what you say it's just important to acknowledge it and say something. After that experience I made a decision to send cards/letters more in the future....

Olivess Tue 19-Feb-13 17:41:03

In fact the worst was going to PIL house on Boxing Day (I had the ERPC on the 23rd dec). Not one member of his family asked me how I felt, if I was ok etc... They just carried on as normal, drinking, playing games etc whilst I sat there with tears in my eyes. I couldn't even drink because I was on strong antibiotics.

squidkid Tue 19-Feb-13 17:54:33

Poor Olivess - it's awful when people say nothing. Not comparable, but I had 6 weeks off med school with depression in my final year and some of my friends just - didn't say anything. Some did a year later, that they felt bad they never said anything but they didn't know what to say. But something is always better than nothing, I think. Whne you feel so terrible already.
I am so glad you have a baby now. I hope you feel ok about it now, that it's behind you.

First that is just awful, no words can touch that. I cannot imagine, I am so sorry. I hope you are, I don't know what the phrase is, at peace with it. The fact of it. Even though the sadness will never go.

OH god, this thread has been very sad of late...

At least Jess is laughing, half an hour after being jabbed. Her melting face 2 seconds after the needle goes in!!

squidkid Tue 19-Feb-13 17:57:09

Oh and I was exaggerating a bit about getting lost in Kathmandu. It was all day, but probably not 24 hours. A nice Nepali woman helped me find my parents in the end, I couldn't remember the address, she probably called the police I guess. Nepalis don't do anything in any rush though. I remember she bought me ice cream so I was perfectly happy and in no rush to find them either.

A few years ago my mum said very offhand she was convinced I'd be sex-trafficked - lovely

Olivess Tue 19-Feb-13 18:02:42

Thanks squid. I feel totally ok about it now especially now we have a gorgeous baby. Funnily enough I got pregnant straight after the miscarriage with no period in between. Actually I've just worked out the dates and it was a year ago today that I got the positive. What a year!

FirstTimeForEverything Tue 19-Feb-13 18:22:45

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Beccus Tue 19-Feb-13 18:39:13

smorgs, that sounds lovely. so ladies, get this. i was in a pub this morning in central london with my mum & dd. we ordered a coffee, paid at the bar & after we had finished, i woke dd up to feed her. as i was adjusting my clothes, the barchick came up to me & asked i feed her in the toilet! i refused, told her i was legally entitled to feed her wherever i wanted and asked she find somewhere more acceptable for me to feed her if there was a problem with me feeding her where we were. she opened up the upstairs bit for us. i got her name after i fed dd. she said her managers ask her to request customers breast feed in the toilet 'as people are eating'. so, i got the managers names, too. i am going to write a formal complaint. of course i want to name & shame all over fb, mnet, twitter etc, but am worried i might get myself into slander trouble. cannot believe this happened in this day & age. what would u guys do if this happened to u?

squidkid Tue 19-Feb-13 19:05:45

Beccus I am a bit shocked, I always thought people were exaggerating about having trouble bf in public.

Is it a chain place or an individual.

I would write a formal complaint and I think you can name and shame if you wish to, it is not slander as it is true. I think it's important for us to do things like this to help other women who are not as confident about bf in public and would just go and sit in the toilet. (The toilet!!)

bella2012 Tue 19-Feb-13 19:22:22

Beccus that is outrageous! How dare they?! God I would have been so upset, I would have left but that would have taught them nothing! Yes, do write, complain to anyone who will listen. This makes me so so angry. Bf is such fucking hard work imh and we have got nobber hv's and nobber dh's pressuring us to do it then nobber restaurants giving us grief for doing it! (sorry- I get more radgy when tired!)

First, squid and smiths, all your stories are so sad. I absolutely marvel at what human beings can cope with when they have to. My friends dad just killed himself on a second attempt, she found him, he had been having an affair, she is getting married on April, he did it in their beautiful family home which they now have to sell along with their family business. Any one of those things sounds unbearable to me and yet somehow, she is carrying on and coping (in a fashion) Unbelievable.

Turnwest- I am so happy that you have posted again. I read your first post this arvo and have read the rest as fast as I could, hoping that you would listen to our amazing tribal sisters and keep talking to us. You are most definitely not a bad mum or a terrible person, you just need some help as all of us do from time to time. I am a mum of two and it id hard bloody work! When the baby cries my 3 year old often wants a piece of the action and starts bawling too. This happened today on a train platform and I considered joining them for a good cry! Seriously, you are not alone. I love this thread for the fact that whatever you are feeling or going through, someone on here is too. Big love to you.

smileyhappymummy Tue 19-Feb-13 19:33:10

beccus that is appalling! Agree that you can say what you like about them and if it's true it can't be slander afaik.
Thoughts for all those dealing with such sadness tonight...makes me remember again how lucky I am.
Well, today went ok. I learnt that I can prop both bits of the breast pump against my boobs with one arm whilst using the other to type up consultation notes. Baby still sniffly but getting better I think. And daddy got pooed on twice. Made me laugh!

Londonmrss Tue 19-Feb-13 19:35:04

beccus that is absolutely outrageous. People are eating???!!! What did she think your baby was doing??? I'm not one for making a big deal out of public bfing for the sake of it, but I get annoyed if someone seems to have a problem with it. I was feeding in a museum the other day and some woman told her children not to look- but not to give me some privacy, more like 'Cover your eyes children, three is something disgusting happening.' I actually think it's the kind of thing that children should see- that their bodily functions are natural Anna beautiful and breasts are not something to be ashamed of but merely there for a mother to feed her baby and for her partner's pleasure.

I would name and shame all the way. The journalists on here will be able to tell you more about defamation law, but I think as it's true, it's a fair comment defence.

smorgs your response was lovely. Your poor friend, that's awful. My best friend had a miscarriage when I was pregnant (she's been trying for years, lots of issues) and understandably she found it difficult to be around me. I just kept letting her know I was thinking her and not expecting a reply til she was ready. She's now dd's 'god'mother (we're atheists).

First that must have been so hard- how awful.

Thank you those who have asked, unpacking is going well. I love our new house but feel very disoriented and odd to be somewhere out of London. I don't understand a world without oyster cards! How do I get on a bus? I need to walk around a bit and go into the city centre which is about a half hour walk to remind myself that I'm not in the middle of nowhere. On the upside people are friendlier here so it reminds me of where I grew up in Yorkshire. DH has gone away to Germany for work for the next 2 weeks so I feel quite lonely in this big house in this strange city sad . It's also odd having this much space. I feel quite paranoid when she's downstairs and I'm upstairs because I'm not used to her being so far away.

Now I'm going to have a gin and tonic in the bath. smile smile

bella2012 Tue 19-Feb-13 19:38:01

On a more cheerful note, can I quickly share something nice that happened to me last weekend? Two of my best girlfriends traveled up to stay for the weekend to celebrate my birthday (I am 30 on Thur-eek!) my lovely dh cooked a delicious meal for us all on Friday and he and my son had put up balloons and banners all over the kitchen and as we sat down, in walked my absolute best friend who had flown all the way from new York to see us for the weekend! I just cried and cried it was such a surprise! We had an amazing spa day and a lot of cocktails and my dh did a lot of looking after the boys which was great. The only negative was that he hurt his shoulder playing rugby so didn't do the sat night night feeds so I had to fix bottles and feed feeling v. Hungover! A year off the booze and a mojito-fest is not a good combo! I would absolutely kill for one night of sleep after all this time- I bet you all feel the same. I know what you mean about the permanent headache crazy

Hope you get a nice night out this week angelico!

Squid- glad jess is ok after her jabs.

Elpis- don't be defensive about the drink thing. We know you.only meant a scrinch (scrinch is geordie slang for a wee bit) and I think that is good advice. It is the little rewards that get me through!

bella2012 Tue 19-Feb-13 19:45:39

Ah londonmrs glad your move went ok. Must be a very strange time and so hard to find time to unpack?! Have you decided on your new name? What is your new area?
Can't believe I have caught up AND posted three times! I will celebrate this victory and ignore the fact that the whole living room floor is covered in toys and that the dishes from dinner are still on the table. Sigh.

Shellwedance Tue 19-Feb-13 19:45:42

Beccus I also agree that there is nothing wrong with naming. I'd much rather know so I could avoid.

I also had a missed miscarriage before DD. I agree that saying something is better than nothing. I actually got the most support on here and I have a 'gang' of friends on here who all went onto have babies so it might be worth suggesting here Smorgs.

I got lost on the way back from a park (a 2 minute walk) when I was 5. A lorry driver picked me up and he had a load of baby chickens in the back of his truck... It's amazing that I got back home safely!

I don't post here enough but I lurk lots and it's amazing how supportive the thread is.

Turn Thinking of you and hope things look a bit better.

hufflepuffle Tue 19-Feb-13 20:17:11

Minor reply as i read....

Crazy loads of wax here too. Grossing me out too......!

Woolybob Tue 19-Feb-13 20:39:48

beccus that's outrageous! Would she eat her dinner in the toilet? I would definitely write and complain, and threaten them with the equality act 2010 cheeky bastards.

turnwest so glad you posted again, hope you had a lovely afternoon in the sunshine, things like that always make me feel better. Good luck at the GPs tomorrow x

smorgs that sounds perfect to me, I always think that nothing you can say will help so it's just the act of saying something. It is hard though, my friend had a miscarriage (her second) while I was pregnant and I remember feeling that I was the last person she wanted to see. Oh dear lots of sad tales on here today, there's too much pain in the world isn't there? Makes me feel I don't want dd to grow up and discover how shitty things can be. So many happy things too though like bellas lovely day!

DD has started sticking her tongue out at the corner like she's thinking about something really hard. Such a small thing but so cute smile

Smorgs Tue 19-Feb-13 21:21:36

So sorry to hear so many of you have had tough times before your DCs arrived. Thanks for your responses to my email. I'm often guilty of staying away from people when they are going through traumatic events, but you are right that just letting people know you are there and acknowledging that they are suffering is the right thing to do.

beccus that is outrageous. londonmrss is right, you are in the clear for defamation as you have a fair comment defence. Name and shame lady!

smiley glad your first full time day back was ok-ish. You're a Trojan.

bella what a lovely surprise! Happy birthday for Thursday!

OK so I am bragging a bit here, but squid suggested I record the positives so... I just had the perfect bed time. Bathtime with daddy, last feed with me in bedroom, burp and a little more feed, dummy, down in basket wide awake and lay there chewing on blanket and staring at hands for a while until he drifted off. No crying. I even turned off the light before he was fully asleep?! And most amazingly, at one point the dummy fell out and he managed to pick it up, hold it in both hands and almost get it back into his mouth, wtf?! I feel I can say this as we have had a pretty shitty day with lots of crying, clingyness and flipping around like a wet fish when I hold him, so please don't hate me.

I have obviously jinxed tonight now and he will wake up every hour or something hideous.

Smorgs Tue 19-Feb-13 22:04:05

Yup, awake, crying, wet fish. That'll learn me.

Smorgs Tue 19-Feb-13 22:11:53

I'm just going to pretend that was an intentional dream feed (if the dream was more like a nightmare) hmm

Elpis Tue 19-Feb-13 22:30:02

Definitely not defamatory! Giving an account of your treatment isn't even fair comment, it's just reporting. Slander is just verbal, not written, btw.

I'm shocked because in nearly four years of breastfeeding in London I've never been asked to support. Come to think of it, there can't be many places where I haven't breastfed - though I did retreat to the loos during a mass christening in St Paul's Cathedral as the whole place is so damn overwhelming. But if it's OK in Fortnum and Mason's unbelievably expensive ice-cream parlour, then it must be OK anywhere.

lisbethsopposite Tue 19-Feb-13 22:41:36

beccus amazing experience. Nobbers.
turnwest I visited a friend with 3 DSs the other day. DS3 was very ill when born - dramatic race to hospital and 2 heart ops. Anyway all well now and she seems to me like 1 of those supermums, so I asked how she coped. She said you just muddle through.
That's the best we can do I think. They don't come with a feckin manual. Reading some chats on here, if you had time, you might think you are a gold medal mum. (One posters mum set alarm for when she cried and if still crying ONE hour later, went to her!! sad)

Elpis Tue 19-Feb-13 22:45:34

I am so moved by all the support for turnwest. You're a great bunch of people. But I knew that already.

Busy day yesterday due to half-term and took DCs to see my aunt and uncle in Cambridgeshire today. DH drove us up and is now on a flight to Singapore. DC next week, NY and Prague week after that, India week after that. Pray for our health, ladies, pray for our health.

lisbethsopposite Tue 19-Feb-13 22:46:00

I BF in the aisle of my local shopping centre. I almost BF at mass one day before I realised I was in the front row!! I whip em out without thinking grin

But I don't sunbathe topless, too shy hmm

Wow. So I've finally caught up, bear with me, please!

turnwest I've only just got on to read your post, but am so glad that you have posted again- we are all here for you, and you are not a terrible mother. Like all the others have said, you are feeding, clothing, and playing with your baby, that is generally all a baby needs- unfortunately some are just screamers. You'll probably be blessed with a great toddler! But good on you for going to your GP tomorrow- please keep coming back and posting, I will be thinking about you. If its any help, I live in buckinghamshire if you want some RL support.

zara your message was great.
Absolutely snorting with laughter at "Revenge is a dish best served monthly" grin

squid Glad the funeral was OK and you got to spend time with your family. Am very sorry to hear about your family friend- I vaguely remember seeing it on the news. I say vaguely because I do my best not to watch the news- every day it brings more cases of child abuse, murder and other depressing things, and it just makes me realise how precious children are, and seriously seriously scares me how some people can be so sick minded.

Londonmrss I loved the first name you said wink Hope you are not drowning in boxes and hope there is someone to help you out while DH is away. Moving is shit (and I will never ever do it again whilst pregnant!!) and its so hard knowing where to start.

elpis what did you do about your mums cousin? Sorry for being nosy but I am intrigued. My half brother messaged me on facebook for the first time ever whilst I was pregnant, and although we do talk every now and then, I haven't worked up the courage to meet him. He commented on a pic of DD when she was born though and said "hooray! im an uncle!", which really, really, really pisses me off. He has no right too. Or should I be a bit more sympathetic? I suppose a tiny tiny miniscule part of me is jealous that my dad kept in contact with him and not me. But on the other hand, I know that that was the best thing.

On the "my father" tangent, the stupid bastard ended up in hospital with pancreatitis again. Thankfully he hasn't tried to contact me since he came back here, but his mother has been trying to find out my address. I am living in fear that I will come home one day and find him on my doorstep, and when I go back to my homevillage (haha) I am constantly looking over my shoulder for him. I cannot, cannot go back to work. Cannot. Not while I know he can walk in whenever he likes. Ugh.

Yomping Sorry to hear RE the shitty nights. You sound like you have one challenging baby pet. I wish I could offer some advice but I honestly don't have any.

Smorgs I manage to cut a chunk off DD's finger every time I cut her nails sad I am always beside myself when I do it, she screams for about 5mins forever and it looks like the chainsaw massacre ok, massive over-exaggeration there. However it does heal up quite quickly, and you'll never know its been done after a couple of weeks. I have tried to file them, but the stupid baby files don't seem to work- can I just use a normal one? Or are they too rough?

Cherrycherry Welcome and congratulations!!! You are a champ. I honestly could not have another one so soon. Me and DP have agreed that we will wait until our house is at least ready or we know exactly when it will be ready (going through planning permission and million bloody hurdles) or three years time, whichever comes first.

livvy and huffle Hope the move to the formula continues to improve. Livvy you are a star for coping with BF for so long whilst being on a crappy diet. I feel for you.

Beccus That's absolutely disgusting!! Who eats their dinner in a toilet?!!Definately formal complaint and name and shame big time!!!

Yomping I have just remembered what you said about being ill. I've been ill with a fluey coldy type thing (Elpis I hope you are feeling better) and god, its so hard isnt it? Now I understand what my DM used to say when she was ill and i'd tell her to go to bed. "I'm not allowed to be ill." Before DD in my not so distant life before children I would stay in bed and recover and feel sorry for myself and drink tea and watch shit on telly; but now you just have to man up, basically. And remember that the world doesn't revolve around you anymore. It is bollocks, but one day a time will come when we can be ill again and our DCs will have to look after us instead grin

Elpis Hope you manage OK without DH being around. I don't know how you do it.

Octoberoctober Ignore what that tory twat said. I am all for gay families, I think it's brilliant.

In my news..
Pippa is thriving. I can't remember who was saying about the nobbing HV's and weight centiles- I had exactly the same situation two weeks ago. I went to GP and she decided that there was nothing wrong with DD. She told me to ignore the HV's suggestion of putting DD on formula. Like others, it makes me laugh that they are so quick to suggest it after all the pressure that there is to BF in the first place! I had her weighed the following week and she'd put on 8 and a half oz. I am not going to get her weighed any more now. I've had enough of the bloody worry. She is quite happy, content, lots of wet nappies and if thats good enough for me, then its good enough for every one else. Although, in my one, short defence of HVs, I suppose they are only doing their jobs. They are there to protect our children, but it doesnt help when they put mothers down that are clearly in need of a bit of support.
Pippa is 13 weeks now. No rolls yet but has learnt to blow rasberries grin we even have a game now, where I blow one and she blows one back grin
She's not really grabbing toys as such yet, although will hold one for a while if I actually place it in her fingers, so I suppose thats a start. She does enjoy being in her gym though and will hit all her toys to make noises.
She is generally so happy. I am touching every bit of wood I can see at the moment but she has been sleeping through the night for the last 5 weeks. She's worked out her own routine which is pretty text book every day, although sometimes needs a bit of help having daytime naps. I expect it won't last long though, and while you lot with difficult babies will get lovely toddlers, I'll probably get a right terror wink

Shame I'm not sleeping at the moment really. I've been having bad nightmares. (To anyone prone to nightmares, don't read the hunger games- thats probably also fuelling the whole children dying anxiety) But otherwise I feel good. Am enjoying the return of spring and its so lovely to see our old river flowing again- its been 7 years since it last filled up!

Probably a bad mummy anecdote to share with you here, but we gave DD a piece of lime to chomp on the other day for a few minutes. It was HILARIOUS. She had a real cats bum face but she still wanted more of it! I just wanted to experiment. She is quite a hungry baby so weaning seems to be more imminent than I first thought it would be! (was planning on at least waiting until 5mo) I got a horrendous nappy the next morning though, so not something I will be trying again any time soon wink

Ok I think thats it from me now. Hope you are all OK. Really must make the effort to start posting more. Turnwest I am thinking of you and I hope it goes well with the GP tomorrow.

Oh, and will I ever stop wearing breastpads?

lisbeth chortling at the idea of a breastfeeding woman in the front row of mass. Thats great grin

Zara1984 Wed 20-Feb-13 06:31:28

Beccus name and shame! And complain (pointing out the law too)! Eejits!

Last night I emailed my bosses with my request to start back in October and to reduce my hours to 3 days a week. Gulp. Let's see what happens!

Zara1984 Wed 20-Feb-13 06:48:00

Also for those who are getting nobber advice from HVs etc, will share what my (very cynical) doctor mate thinks about the situation.

He reckons that lots of frontline health professionals are told/read guidelines but don't actually understand much beyond those health guidelines, and choose not to educate themselves further.

Ie: HV sees baby is dropping weight/centiles. Baby dropping weight is bad. Guidelines are that in some cases (after thorough investigation, nothing else working) formula supplementation may be necessary. So instead of deciding whether that guidance best suits that situation, or trying to understand WHY that guidance exists, the HV just takes the easy answer and says "give formula".

Same in my case at the hospital. Midwives: "keep putting the baby to the breast every three hours" Me: "but it's not working, he won't latch, I need help" Midwives: "keep putting baby to the breast, call us if you have problems" me: "arrrrrrgh". They don't understand a lot beyond the "breast is best, baby should be encouraged to feed regularly slogan" It was the paeds who questioned what support I was getting and pointed out that just putting DS to the breast was not working because he was getting dehydrated.

My doc mate gets furious when he goes to get some analysis/chart report from a department and he asks what they think of the printout etc. They say "I dunno", he goes "but your whole job is preparing these charts! You look at them all day! What happens if something's wrong??" "Oh we just wait for the machine to beep and then we calla doctor" My mate: "arrrrrrgh"

Not trying to slate healthcare professionals in general but it makes me furious when they take an authoritative stance "this is what you must do" when their knowledge is actually really shallow.

squidkid Wed 20-Feb-13 07:40:55

zara I'd agree with that, in general. I think the midwives are very overstretched though. I agree about the health visitors.
smorgs even if he did wake up, I liked reading about your lovely settled bedtime. I think a lot of parenting is two steps forward, one step back, that's how I view it. How did he sleep the rest of the night? I find babies being upset more disruptive than actual awakenings. Some nights Jess wakes at 3.30 and I feed and cuddle her on and off till 8... but it doesn't bother me because she's settled. If she is fretting and crying at 7, that's more disruptive (for me). (I know I have a better sleeper than most though.)
beccus just start a thread on mumsnet, some activist will take it up for you! perhaps there will be a huge breastfeeding "sit in" at the pub, that'll teach them

Go do a workout squid.

FirstTimeForEverything Wed 20-Feb-13 08:39:50

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

squidkid Wed 20-Feb-13 09:01:25

People are getting some really weird advice about weaning. Now I'm no expert, and only a first time mum, but everything I've read agrees that it is ideal for babies not to get anything other than breastmilk/formula until they are 6 months at least, and that these things are NOT a sign of being ready for weaning

-waking more than previously
-being hungrier than previously (milk has more calories than purees/cereal, so you can give them more milk)
-chewing things, putting things in their mouth (babies just do this around this age)

These things mean a baby is ready for weaning - can sit unsupported, pick food up and put it in their mouth, and swallow it. This rarely happens before 6 months. I guess if a baby steals some food off your plate and eats it they are ready!!

One thing I didn't realise until I read up on it was that babies get almost all their calories for milk till at least 10, 11 months. Food is for learning and developing, not for growth at this age. So you should not worry about "getting enough food into your baby" for ages yet.

I am a bit cynical of baby food companies, they know the guidance says nothing before 6 months but for some reason they are allowed to market their overpriced products as 4 months plus. I think this kind of advertising has more impact on people's actions (both health care professionals and mums!) than most people realise.

This is not meant to be a rant against people considering weaning, you do what is right for your child and of course make your own decisions, but I am surprised health visitors are giving this advice out.

nhs guidelines

Sorry if this is a bit grumpy. Baby food companies and health visitors are at the top of my hit list at the moment.

squidkid Wed 20-Feb-13 09:05:02

... and whilst I was getting on my high horse, my baby hit herself on the head with a hard plastic duck and burst into tears. Bad mum. Cuddles and milk needed...

Zara1984 Wed 20-Feb-13 09:17:56

Awww Jess!!

I am following the NZ guidelines Squid he is doing all these things.

DS tries to eat my food and grabbed a piece of toast out of my hands yesterday and shoved in my mouth and started chewing. So this Sunday (17 week birthday) I am going to try him with baby rice. If he pushes it out his mouth I will stop and wait another week, and so on. Not going to reduce any milk feeds at although in lieu of food.

Agree with anger re baby food companies. Makes me cross too.

Zara1984 Wed 20-Feb-13 09:18:48

Shoved the toast in HIS mouth and chewed, I should clarify. My genius baby is not weaning me...

Smorgs Wed 20-Feb-13 09:19:56

My god elpis is he coming home between those trips?

Well last night was what you call karma. Up every hour. Remind me never to brag about anything ever again please.

squidkid Wed 20-Feb-13 09:25:27

sad Smorgs, I feel responsible for telling you to write about good things!! Oh no!! Have a brew...

Interesting Zara!! My mum often talks about the changing fashions of weaning...
I still think hvs are nobbers though!

smileyhappymummy Wed 20-Feb-13 09:28:06

Scary night last night - baby woke up sounding like she was choking then had really noisy laboured sounding breathing with stridor. Phoned nhs direct (being a doctor is useless when it comes to my own baby I have discovered) who after listening to her over the phone said to take her to a+e and consider 999 if any delay. So bundled everyone into the car and off we went. She fell asleep in the car (think she was comfier propped up in her car seat) and when we arrived was completely settled. Which is brilliant obviously but felt like such a numpty.....think she has probably got a bit of croup - still sounds hoarse today but better. Fingers crossed fr tonight! One day I will get some sleep too....

Shellwedance Wed 20-Feb-13 09:35:29

Squid I was thinking exactly the same thing re baby food companies yesterday. On the back of the packet I looked at, one says something like "Recommendations are not to wean until 6 months but all babies are different..." almost like it's suggesting your baby is special if it's weaned early. Obviously all babies are different and we all make our own choices on weaning but it just seems a bit tactical to use that wording.

Smorgs Wed 20-Feb-13 09:38:41

Blimey smiley that sounds scary, I hope she's better today. A little boy here whos same age as Smorglet had croup a couple of weeks ago and he sounded terrible. Doc gave steroids and he was completely fine in a few days.
squid don't feel responsible please! The good bedtime made up for the bad night time. Small victories and all that.

Londonmrss Wed 20-Feb-13 09:42:58

should I be worried that my baby isn't showing any signs of wanting to wean? I mean she shoves anything in her mouth she can, but she seems happy enough with just milk and she's nowhere near sitting up unaided. I was planning to wait until at least 6 months but hope she isn't developmentally behind. ah bollocks to it, she's fine. must stop comparing.

cherrycherry41 Wed 20-Feb-13 09:44:20

Morning everyone!
Thank you for all the congrats messages, yes i must be barmy wink cant remember who asked me how i knew - it was first month of ttc so i took a pg test on the day my period was due and guess what... i was completely shaking, could not grasp how we had managed it!
Dont really have any symptoms at all and im 7+3 so fingers crossed no sickness this time. Although orange juice tastes more sour than before haha.
Really tired this morning so thought id bring DD into my bed when she woke as she normally falls back to sleep after her first feed but it would seem she has other ideas...
currently laid next to me blowing raspberrys in my face!

Angelico Wed 20-Feb-13 09:44:26

Smiley you poor thing just seems to be so much going on for you sad thanks

Turnwest really glad you came back and saw everyone is cheering you on.

Feel really tired today. Bean is still sleeping well praise be but waking once or twice a night for a feed. I think it's just catching up that I've had 5 months of night wakings. Once she's in her own room I like to think I will sleep more deeply.

Seem to spend all my time at the minute torn between thinking, 'Can't wait till she's 6 months and can go in her own room / be partially weaned' and 'Oh no! My little bean! You are growing too fast and I want to keep you sleeping in with us / keep you totally BFing / keep you so tiny and cute and pickupable' etc. Even her night feeds feel sort of nostalgic in the last couple of weeks, like I'm really watching her and trying to fix it the picture in my head for when she's older.

Zara1984 Wed 20-Feb-13 10:08:34

No comparing londonmrs!! All babies are different! DS can't roll to save his life but he can sit up mostly unaided now. All babies are diff. smile

Not looking forward to the mess of weaning but my gut tells me DS is ready for baby rice and simple purées.

smileyhappymummy Wed 20-Feb-13 10:14:43

london my baby is 20 weeks tomorrow so I think a bit older than yours. She can roll, stuffs things in her mouth whenever she gets the chance but definitely can't sit up unaided. So don't worry at all.

Smorgs Wed 20-Feb-13 10:24:18

london mine is also nowhere near sitting up unaided, shows no interest in food and the rolling!? Well you've seen the vid, it's more falling to one side!

Elpis Wed 20-Feb-13 10:42:28

squid Totally agree with you about weaning, but like vaccinations and bf/ff (whether to try bf at all, I mean), many people feel official guidance is not right for their baby, especially when our parents did things differently. It can be a 'get the state off my back' mentality. And as someone suggested, I think a lot of HVs don't read much around their subject and they prefer to suggest something rather than nothing.

smorgs Yes, he will return between those trips so he can retreat to bed jetlagged when not at work. hmm

I forget who asked about my new relatives. Yes, my mum's cousin is going to come round so we can share family photos. She never knew of Mum's existence as her birth and adoption were hushed up, though they went to the same school nine years apart and the family moved to within a mile of where Mum grew up. The cousin thinks she knows the identity of my grandfather. Older married man, shame of it, etc etc.

DD is at half-term gymnastics camp. She went along on Monday and loved it so much I agreed to another session today. 'Mummy, I can do a roly-poly!'

I never managed to do a forward roll in my entire school career. DD is not yet four. If I can spare her the hell of my PE experiences, I will have achieved something as a parent.

Elpis Wed 20-Feb-13 10:49:20

For the record, DS hasn't rolled for a fortnight and can't sit up unaided. On the other hand, he can pull my plate off the table and gaze intently at an iPad.

I found DD trying to spoon 'medicine' into his mouth yesterday. He played along quite happily. Found myself bookmarking a swede, potato and carrot mash in a Nigel Slater book. But in no hurry to wean. Nappies so much more revolting afterwards.

squidkid Wed 20-Feb-13 10:55:07

smiley sweetheart!! It is just one thing after another...
londonmrss your baby is fine. perfect. And yeah, after 10 rolls in one morning Jess can't be bothered to do them again...

Waiting on brother & family to arrive. He was going to get a train as his 2.5 yr old wanted to ride on a train, but the trains from Leeds to Sheffield are mad prices, so he is driving here. And then I will take everyone on a tram, because that's only £3. Now who said Yorkshire folk were tight...

FirstTimeForEverything Wed 20-Feb-13 10:58:07

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FirstTimeForEverything Wed 20-Feb-13 10:58:25

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Cheesymonster Wed 20-Feb-13 11:26:20

DH is away this week on a course. I'm bored and the weather has turned cold again. But yesterday was sunny so took DD out for an hour's walk in the pram, it was lovely. Today we had a look round the nursery she'll be going to when I go back to work, probably around the end of July. Will come round too quick I think.

Poor baby Smiley! You're certainly getting more than your fair share.
What's stridor, just out of interest?

Squid, I'm the same with night wakings. Usually if DS wakes, he feeds for about 15 mins then goes straight back to sleep and I don't mind it at all. Unfortunately last night he seemed to need to fart or something and kept crying like he was in pain and taking ages to settle. I'm knackered today!

DS has no interest in food. Sometimes I give him stuff to hold, for the texture, like edamame or a grape or something, and it's about the only thing that doesn't go straight in his mouth. I'm always poised ready to catch it if it heads that way.
He is fascinated with drinks though, if I drink whilst feeding, he stops, stares and tries to bat it out my hand. I often give him my mug when I've finished and he puts it to his mouth like he knows what he's doing.

London, if I take the time to balance DS perfectly, he can kind of sit, albeit with his head practically touching his feet. Then all of a sudden he just topples to one side. It's rather amusing.

We went to the aquarium today for a bit of sensory stimulation. It's quite a long journey on the subway, so the plan was for DS to take a nap. DS didn't agree with the plan and grumbled all the way there, fell asleep on arrival and slept the whole way round the aquarium. hmm I had fun though.

Elpis Wed 20-Feb-13 11:38:29

Stridor is ghastly rasping breathing, like Darth Vadar on steroids. DD had it with a particularly bad bug when she was 8mo. I'll never forget lying awake next to her all night, fearing she was about to die.

Tell me about it Cheesy, by April I have somehow got to morph into Supermum - getting places on time, doing my hair everyday, going shopping faster than my current "daytrip", not taking all day to cook dinner, thinking about things other than baby etc etc.
I'm so far from this right now.

Thanks Elpis. That's sounds terrifying!

Woolybob Wed 20-Feb-13 12:28:03

If I wasn't married already I would marry the jumperoo. DD has been in it half an hour and is still going. She's never spent that long doing anything before...

We are also at the stage where of we position her just right she can prop herself up (tripoding?) for a few seconds but bean is one of the oldest in this group and tbh is quite a physical baby. I've started sitting her in the highchair and giving her an empty cup, she'll watch me intently, pick it up and chuck it on the floor. Not ready wink. Afternoon tea it ain't. I def want to wait til 6 months but partly as I can't be bothered yet, just want her to stay my little babe as long as possible.

Another weaning tale - lady I met at the children's centre was ref to the children's hospital when her first child was 4 months about something else entirely, was made to feel by the paeds that she was practically starving her daughter by not weaning her so did so. She said it was a nightmare getting food into her and she really wasn't interested until about 8 months. Then she started shoveling it down and jumped up to the 90 centile. This time she's def waiting till she's sure dd2 is ready...

Don't mind admitting the ocd in me is going to start making, cataloging and freezing purees in a few weeks wink

wooly i was thinking the same thing the other day!! my mum gave me a great tip- make whatever puree and then freeze it in ice cube trays- then you can take out as many cubes as you need and defrost ready for bean. part of me the ocd part wants to get it all ready now grin

Orenishii Wed 20-Feb-13 15:32:49

I've gotta say - I tend to think baby rice, baby porridge, baby whatever are total bollocks. I don't know why you'd waste your money when you could easily give them regular porridge, or mash up some sweet potato or whatever if not doing baby led weaning, and if you are broccoli, cucumber, carrots etc work just as well. I tend to think "baby" anything when it comes to food is just a manipulative marketing ploy. And I say that as a marketing executive!!

No thoughts of weaning here, for at least two more months and only then as sensory/explorative/learning play. And do that for several months, with breast milk as his actual food. Not sitting unaided, rolling or playing of the clarinet just yet either grin

crazypaving Wed 20-Feb-13 16:25:07

wow I'm suddenly really behind! what happened??

turnwest how did the doctor go? thinking of you.

weaning I'm definitely in the baby led weaning camp. partly cos I'm lazy as hell and partly cos it's lots of fun. ds1 didn't eat much til about 10m iirc then he really took off. can't wait to watch ds2 chasing stuff round the table grin

cherry edamame and grapes?? <silent scream> choking hazards deluxe! glad you're watching like a hawk! mmm edamame...

smiley bloody hell you deserve some kind of award for simply surviving what life's been chucking at you.

hm on phone and mind's gone blank.

I survived my first ever bathtime alone yesterday, completely unexpectedly. dh stuck in traffic. ds1 bathed while ds2 shrieked madly, read bedtime story, even managed to brush teeth (ds1 is a total nightmare with that), both in bed on time and without too much heartbreak. poor ds2 did have to cry rather a lot.

and today ds1 has failed to nap confused but we're all somehow surviving. it's not over til the fat lady sings though (that's me btw grin )

Zara1984 Wed 20-Feb-13 16:37:28

DS just drank 350ml of formula in 90 mins confused growth spurt, much?

Zara1984 Wed 20-Feb-13 16:38:03

Correction... 60 minutes confused confused

Zara1984 Wed 20-Feb-13 16:41:59

Make that 400ml shock

Zara1984 Wed 20-Feb-13 19:09:07

He then drank another bottle before bed and promptly threw up on himself. All is well in the universe then I guess?

feeling very very anxious today. probably another shitty nights sleep ahead. ugh sad

Orenishii Wed 20-Feb-13 19:51:16

Hugs mickey

There's a good thread in the sleep section about dreading the uncertainty of the night ahead - you're not alone smile


horseylady Wed 20-Feb-13 19:59:27


Can I join in? Been half reading your thread with interest more to see if what is happening is happening to others!!

Ds born 27/10 weighing 8lb a very rocky start were ok!!

Am on the nov group too but gave recently been reading your group with interest as your babies are the same age if not older so I can ask questions!!

Orenishii Wed 20-Feb-13 20:02:33

Hi horsey! Our sons were born on the same day grin Congrats!

Elpis Wed 20-Feb-13 20:23:35

Tweeted that my job title had been abolished and that I wouldn't be returning to it post-maternity leave.

Bawled out by management.

Fucked, really, as far as current employer goes.

horseylady Wed 20-Feb-13 20:41:24

Have not gave!!

Elpis I went in tues to work to be told my job as I know it is no longer there, however the job I would be doing required promotion was that ok? Erm yes thanks!!