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October 2012: onwards, upwards and rolling over?

(1000 Posts)
YompingJo Sun 20-Jan-13 22:01:28

Is this part 5 already? Where did that time go?

YompingJo Sun 20-Jan-13 22:07:08

Grr at all the auto-correct errors in my last post. Here is the proper link to the webchats in case anyone wants to read them: webchats

Londonmrss Sun 20-Jan-13 22:17:43

Wow, a new thread already.

On the sahm debate, I recently fell out with a friend who, when I told her it was something I would love to do should it be financially viable, basically told me I was betraying the sisterhood. Really pissed me off.

Of course I am a feminist, aren't we all? But feminism isn't about avoiding traditional roles or even having it all... it's about having the choice and living in a society that doesn't force is into any role because we have vaginas, isn't it? <annoying preachy emoticon> Anyone who wants to judge any of us for the choices we make while doing our best as mothers is a nobber in my opinion.

I'll shut up now. Night all.

BoraBora Sun 20-Jan-13 22:37:52

Jesus Christ, baby just inhaled some of her own vomit. Possibly scariest moment of my life to date.

hufflepuffle Sun 20-Jan-13 22:43:26

Really???? Took me all evening to log in and you fill a thread??? Chatters 'R' us.

Good night vibes all round. I'll be MIA tmrw as interviewing all day. Pray my brain works and boobs don't leek


Orenishii Sun 20-Jan-13 22:45:44

I'm torn about being a SAHM and there's too many variables, finances being a biggie. The ideal for us would be for us to afford for me to quit my evil corporate job, stay with DS for a while...but you know, I just don't I could never not be doing something.

Finances are scary. DH is self-employed so it's ever changing month by month, we rent so the my dream of home ownership slips ever further away, and I have concerns about being out of the job market for too long. I would love my own business so I think once this new baby fog starts to clear, I will begin building up a consultancy. DH is very optimistic, wants me to stay at home and we talk about home schooling as a possibility. But the ideals - and things we want to prevent - are different to potential realities.

london it's nothing against the "sisterhood" to stay at home and raise your child. Nor is it bad to want a career - I think to not do what's best for the entire family unit, of which mothers are a part, is doing yourselves a disservice. The aim, in my mind, is to fulfil everyone's needs.

I'm 32 - I ran off to London at 18, lived with screenwriters who parented because i was so lost, and educated me in art, literature, philosophy and critical thinking. I wrote a novel, freaked out at the publishing contract, got a "proper" job and somehow ended up in a few short years managing the web marketing for the European arm of a global company that i hate but that's ok. It just taught me that things can be so different within a few years - so to stay at home is not the end of a career, it's just a different path to go down for a while.

OctoberOctober Sun 20-Jan-13 23:02:40

Another 37 yr old here, looks like I am in good company!

londonmrs agree that feminism is about having choices, whatever individual women decide to do with their families and careeers should be sown to us, not some preordained view of what a woman's role should be.

Am about to squish DS back in Moses basket after dreamfeed, he looks like he is bursting out but still seems to sleep better there than his cot.

Woolybob Mon 21-Jan-13 00:24:25

Marking spot - I'm 33

Zara1984 Mon 21-Jan-13 01:44:34

I'm 28!

Not sure how things are going to work out re working. I'm probably going to stay home with DS until 9 months or so. Then I'd like to go back part-time, but if it had to be full-time I don't think it'd be the end of the world. DH and I like the theory of me being a SAHM but we also like having more money and I like working out of the home way too much! I'm an ex-commercial lawyer and I work in a techy/project manager role at an NGO. I'd like to get more into project management or into management consulting if possible. Going back to legal practice doesn't really seem likely for me right now! DH feels that 6 months is too young for DS to go into creche, even part-time, and I'm happy to go along with that for now.

Londonmrs that friend of yours sounds like a bellend. The "sisterhood" WTF. Some people need to get a grip.

OK all your very intelligent discussions on education make me feel like I have not researched that adequately! All my primary & secondary education was vair posh & expensive all-girl private schools and to be honest I think it was a bit of a waste of money. I would've got just as good results (and would've been better adjusted socially) if I'd gone to a good quality co-ed or single sex state school. We don't plan on being in Ireland by the time DS starts school so I can't really plan too much. We do have the high school picked (NZ's top state boys' grammar school, entry is strictly based on where you live or on ballot) for DS if we ever did come back to Auckland though! There's a good quality creche about 20 metres from our apartment building, or on the campus of DH's work - so it's likely DS will go to either of those places.

COTS - where have people got their cots from? I need to sort one out as soon as we get back home because DS will be too big for his rocking crib. We'll probably get one from Ikea - anyone got anything good/bad to say about these? What kind of mattress should we get? Foam/innersprung?

hufflepuffle Mon 21-Jan-13 05:22:38

zara we have bought cot from Tony Kealey, which I think there are 2 of in Dublin. We bought pram from them 2. I've found them incredibly helpful from a customer service point of view. They r so v v knowledgeable. All price ranges too. Got mid range mattress at £80 as he wont be in that long before a bed, really. I found the ikea cots a bit basic and mattresses odd sizes, tho mattresses v good. We wanted drop sides to save my back.

That's my experience!

hufflepuffle Mon 21-Jan-13 05:23:38

I'm 36. Currently feel about 50.

OctoberOctober Mon 21-Jan-13 06:11:00

zara re cots, we got cot bed from kiddicare and it has been fine, survived lots of height etc permutations from Ds1. I'm sure the Ike's ones are good too, although if anything like their normal bed range they aren't std sizes so you end up having to get bedding from there too. Not such an issue with a teeny bed when they'll be in gro bags for a whole anyway.

On childcare, ds2 will be going to same nursery as ds1 which we are happy with. We will have 1 year of double childcare costs which will pinch but at least only a year. I was personally never keen on the child minder option for a number of reasons but understand that a lot of people feel more comfortable leaving younger children with them than at a nursery, although I think the staffing ratios are the same.

Tbh, the first year ds1 was in nursery aged 1-2 i don't think he got a huge amount out of it and it was really more about childcare whilst we worked ft. But once he turned 2 he seemed to 'get' it a lot more and enjoy the different activities and more importantly the social interaction and now loves it. He went 3 days week and my parents looked after him for 2 days which was a godsend.

I'm hoping to go back 3 days week to work after a year mat leave but I doubt it will be as simple as that and I will have lots of discussions with work, they have become much less supportive of pt work in the current climate.

YompingJo Mon 21-Jan-13 06:27:21

Schools is a tricky one. I know first hand how very variable the quality of teaching can be in the same primary school, so even if you like the ethos you can't rely on the teaching. I think this is awful but it's nearly impossible for a head teacher to get rid of a shit member of staff if the person doesn't want to be got rid of.

Secondary... I went to a private all-girls school and did far far better there than I would have done in a co-ed state school where I just would have been seen as capable, would likely not have been pushed enough and would have been very distracted by boys hussy. So while the idealist in me feels that private schools should not be needed and the state should cater equally well for everyone, the realist in me knows that this is currently not the case and I would be naive to ignore that. Mind you, if I had gone to a state school and been used to being around boys, maybe I would not have gone ^ quite^ so off the rails between the ages of 15 and 20 as I discovered the male of the species and made up for what I had been missing out on! blush Hope you don't reap what you sew otherwise I am going to have many battles of will with dd when she's older and thinks she knows it all and does the exact opposite of what her mother tells her on principle just because she doesn't like being told she can't do something!

YompingJo Mon 21-Jan-13 06:30:42

sow, not sew. I very rarely sew so if you reap what you sew I'll be fine! Doh.

london my boyfriends an old git though wink
i think i got my rebel teenage years from the age of about 15-19... i wasnt the worst kid on the block but i grew up alot faster than my friends- i am also the first out of my friends to have a child. they love it, which is great but it is a bit lonely sometimes. and when i talk to them obviously all i talk about is DD, and i get a bit scared that they are going to get bored of it one day blush

..and on the childcare debate, i dont know what im going to do. i would like to go back to work part time, for the money and for a bit of 'me' time. my mum has offered to look after dd on certain days which is great. the only problem is, i dont want to go back to my job. the company i work for are on paper, great employers- you get all sorts of benefits and discount. But in actual fact, they don't listen to their staff. our manager has basically committed fraud for the last 5 years, we've all complained (and the fact that he is a shit manager) yet they still wont do anything about it. i dont really fancy going back to a job where even part time, id end up doing more hours than my manager...

crazypaving Mon 21-Jan-13 07:46:18

marking place. good luck today huffle, thinking of you, and may your breastpads be all absorbing grin

ds2 slept a bit better last night! shh, don't say it too loud... both boys up at 5am though angry

hufflepuffle Mon 21-Jan-13 08:09:51

Christ. 11, 1.30, 5, 6.30. Perhaps tis early 4 month sleep regression?

I feel ill with tiredness.

And i am 35, not 36. I think.

NI still lucky to have state grammar schools. They are fab. Need kid to be academically able to get in tho. Whole other debate in itself as to secondary vs grammar and academic selection at early age...... I'm for it but I suspect many of you might lynch me..............

Have a good day all
Thanks Crazy!

FirstTimeForEverything Mon 21-Jan-13 08:49:57

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

londonlivvy Mon 21-Jan-13 08:53:13

Londonmrss. Grrr re sisterhood rubbish. Feminism is about choices. One of my sisters is a high flyer and went back after four months. Her husband took the child to nursery and did pretty much most of the day to day. Other sister is a sahm. Both are just as worthwhile mums, though different.

Financially it doesn't make much sense for me to go back to work as I wasn't very highly paid and childcare is so expensive. My commute was also quite long - 1h30 each way - Which means id be gone from 7am til gone 6pm. so i am very lucky that DF earns enough to pay our mortgage etc. I hope to teach yoga part time once I've got this all slightly more under control as some adult contact and some brain stimulation. Though I need to find a childminder I like and trust before I can do that,

Woolybob Mon 21-Jan-13 08:55:20

Hmm would now be a good time to come out as an ex-single sex grammar school pupil? Maybe not... Seriously ladies, put the school discussion down and step away...wink

Thanks for that link yomping, good nightfeed reading! Things get a bit heated in those webchats don't they? Very entertaining grin

Londonmrss Mon 21-Jan-13 09:41:56

After 4 awful nights, we suddenly had a good night again last night. No feed again this morning- maybe she's just not a breakfast person.

I think I've realised that I shouldn't panic when everything is difficult because it doesn't stay that way. But I also shouldn't celebrate when we establish a nice routine because that doesn't last either.

squidkid Mon 21-Jan-13 09:49:55

Fully blown 4 month sleep regression here!
Didn't get baby to sleep till 1am, and oh the tears!!
At least she slept till 5.45am - normally she has a first feed around 4.30am.
Utterly refused moses basket so just slept with us. She is a wee bit big for it now anyway. A friend is giving us a cot but not till wednesday, and i'll have to get a mattress.
Was supposed to be going to a mate's for a snowy walk, but she lives other side of the city bit far to walk with baby. Even the M1 is shut between j30 and j40 so not sure I should risk the roads!! Am tired from ratty baby too and think she really needs her naps today...

repeat: Everything is a phase!!

squidkid Mon 21-Jan-13 09:52:11

ps I am 33, like Jesus

BoraBora Mon 21-Jan-13 10:18:23

Boiler has packed up. Fuck my life.

FirstTimeForEverything Mon 21-Jan-13 10:28:21

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FirstTimeForEverything Mon 21-Jan-13 10:29:10

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FirstTimeForEverything Mon 21-Jan-13 10:29:41

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

crazypaving Mon 21-Jan-13 10:33:53

londonmrs I think we may have the same baby. impossible to feed except when basically asleep, never wants to feed in the morning. driving me insane.

livvy what was that website you recommended for bfing clothes? can't find that post and sick of rotating 3 manky unflattering tops.

CookieMonster88 Mon 21-Jan-13 11:14:54

Ah, more snow has arrived and its blowing a gale, day house bound for us hmm need some new entertainment ideas!?

Does anyone have any tips on encouraging the wee one to roll over? I feel there must be something I can do to help. She has started trying to touch her feet this morning smile so cute.

I go back to work part time in August, I'm very lucky that my work has been great and basically said I can work whenever I want as long as I get the job done. So DD will be at nursery all day Monday, then 3 mornings. I did read though that they should have at least 4 sessions at nursery a week (so 2 full days or 4 half days) to make it less disruptive. Apparently they never get used to it if they only go once a week. Kind of makes sense.

turnwest Mon 21-Jan-13 11:36:40

I m 35.

I ve been SAHM for the last 5 yrs because my husband is self employed and works away a lot, it just sort of made sense for us. Mostly I enjoy it but sometimes I do feel a bit lonely, the best time was when my DD was about 3 and I we able to lots of stuff together, I really enjoyed that. Not enjoying looking after a baby so much at the moment though. Sat in bedroom now frantically trying to get him to nap but nothing works.

turnwest Mon 21-Jan-13 11:38:00

Sorry for typing and grammatical errors!!

Oh no Bora, that's not good, how quickly can you get it sorted?!

Welcome Kranky! smile

I won't join in the education discussion, as firstly my little brain can't think that far ahead and secondly, it's a whole other ball game in Japan.

And as for sleep regression, I'm refusing to acknowledge it. I shall pretend it doesn't exist in the vain hope that it's a self-fulfilling prophecy wink grin
I'm only just now allowing myself to say that sleeping through is the rule, rather than the exception, here.

Trip was great. It didn't snow while we were there, but lots remaining after last week's freak amounts, so all very pretty. Dinner illusion show was good, but not amazing especially for the price particularly with baby. DS was very good though, even though it was long and loud.
A weekend of firsts for him - first overnight trip, first boat ride, first jacuzzi bath with view of Mount Fuji! grin
And I was just happy that he slept well despite sleeping loads in the car seat.

I'm 31 btw.
Going back to work full time in April, but I'm lucky that DS can come with me (if it works out). He'll be looked after by my MIL one day a week.
Actually things will get a lot harder when he starts kindergarten or whatever because my hours do not work well with school drop off and pickup times, and I don't drive at the moment.
Don't know if I would want to be a SAHM. It was a definite no before I had DS, but now I think I might if I was in the UK. Not here though, it's too lonely and unfamiliar here.
It's not even a consideration though, because of the commitment I made to my partner and our business.
But totally agree - empowerment is all about choices.

Londonmrss Mon 21-Jan-13 14:00:56

how often should a 12 week baby be napping? mine can only be awake for about an hour and a half before being a nap. she usually naps for about 45 mins. I thought she would bee going longer between naps by now but she just gets grumpy if I keep her up longer. Am not complaining as I know it can be good to have a daytime napper.

WantAnOrange Mon 21-Jan-13 14:05:12

How can we be 2 pages in already?! I'm trying to keep up but in the middle of writting essay due in on wednesday. Eek!

Bora I am a childminder! I supose I'm not really biased. I've worked in nurseries and I've worked as a childminder, and used both as a parent, then I made my mind up about them.

I am 24 years old.

I would love to be a SAHM but DH is unemployed so I have to go back to work. Also dont see how we'll ever get a mortgage if we dont both work, and I hate renting.

CookieMonster88 Mon 21-Jan-13 14:11:37

Londonmrss, we are on about the same here, 45min naps followed by 1.5 - 2 hrs awake. She been in this routine for about 2 weeks now, no routine at all before and hardly any naps.

BoraBora Mon 21-Jan-13 15:06:05

Hmm, she seems to be awake for 2-3 hours?

Olivess Mon 21-Jan-13 16:04:40

My DD is only awake for 1.5-2 hours at a time. She gets VERY grumpy if she's awake for any longer. She tends to have one long nap in the early afternoon which can be 2 hours - I have to wake her from this nap quite often. She doesn't nap in the crib though - tried that for about an hour and a half this morning and she just kept waking up and crying. I have to take her out in the pram, although I don't mind because we do a lot of groups etc during the day which I have t o walk to anyway plus I like the fresh air and exercise.

CrankyMama Mon 21-Jan-13 16:52:27

Hi again all,
I'm trying to figure out the ins and outs of mums net! Its taken me ages to find my way about, add that to me being a crap typist. Plus I haven't a clue about posting etiquette?

As I said in the other post my dd was born on Oct 1st. She's a great baby ...so far. I'm a sahm , my others are ds who is 6 and 2 dds of 4 and 2. I enjoy it but there are days I want to scream. My eldest 2 are autistic so we have some fun days in this house.

Dd is a crap sleeper, I'm up at least 2 if not 3 times a night feeding her.....she better not be like her older sister. She's a big girl too, well long rather.

I look forward to chatting to you all, hope all your babies are doing well.

Orenishii Mon 21-Jan-13 17:03:46

DS has been in the cheap pretend bedside cot from Ikea since birth, or in with us. The cot cost about £60 I think, and has a removable side and two different heights - perfect for bedside cotness! He slept a little bit in the beginning in the basket downstairs but generally just falls asleep in my arms then I transfer him to the seat beside me on the sofa, on his lambskin. The cot has been awesome - it's like an extension of my side of the bed and I can just reach out and hold his little hand. I saw a Mothercare one that did exactly the same, looked pretty much the same and was £200!! And randomly, even though Ikea have their own special annoying mattress sizes, Primark fitted flannel sheets are the exact size.

He sleeps about the same in the day as Olivess' DD - only awake for about 1.5 - 2 hours between sleeps for play time, swimming, talking etc. He sleeps between 20 minutes and 3 hours at a time. We're pretty routine-less here - we just sorta leave him to his own rhythm, only really keeping on making sure he doesn't get over tired and also gets daylight on his face every day.

squidkid Mon 21-Jan-13 18:16:35

Jess is having a growth spurt and i am wiped out. She's fed about 14 times today. I feel like I'm not even producing milk and want to burst into tears.
Very cabin fevery with the snow - think my group tomorrow will be cancelled. I did get out for a litt;e walk in the snow with the sling
My gran died this morning, but peacefully. She was 91. I am not upset exactly, just a bit sad.
I found the birth discussion on facebook quite therapeutic.

Londonmrss Mon 21-Jan-13 18:23:19

feeding strike seems to be coming to an end. fingers crossed. how's yours huffle?
we got an Ikea cot. it's 120 by 60cm so fits mattress etc from mothercare. it was about 50 quid.
sounds like you have your hands full cranky! I used to run playschemes for kids with autism to provide respite for parents- I remember how grateful those patents were for the break from their wonderful yet exhausting children.

Londonmrss Mon 21-Jan-13 18:30:06

sorry about your gran squid. hugs.

Midgetm Mon 21-Jan-13 18:51:57

Marking place. Welcome cranky. So sorry about your grandma Squid. Big waves to all.

FirstTimeForEverything Mon 21-Jan-13 19:12:40

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BoraBora Mon 21-Jan-13 19:15:46

I'm sorry to hear about your grab. It always hurts, however expected.

My undercarriage really hurts hmmhmmhmm

Beccus Mon 21-Jan-13 19:51:57

sorry about your gran, squid.
hi cranky, wow, 4!!

londonmrs, same sleep pattern here - tired after 1.5-2 hrs & napping for 30-45 min.

loving my yr off, but dont think sahm is for me. need to look up what a montessori nursery is. my priority was close proximity to home, and that the staff seem sensible & r friendly, kids r happy & stimulated with lots of opportunity for outdoor play. have seen 2 and both seemed lovely, but one only takes kids up to 3. would like her to be able in the one place & make friends until she is 5, so we r going with that one. long waiting list - no spaces until june. i keep changing my mind re returning to work ft/pt. nursery fees make ft place far more financially viable, but we could manage with me pt & i find my job v. stressful & tiring and don't think i'd have enough left to give at home if i went back ft. have to c what work says, anyway. not sure if pt is an option. am over being snowed in - have cabin fever!! running out of ideas to entertain dd. left her with dp yesterday for 5 hrs - he managed really well smile

OctoberOctober Mon 21-Jan-13 19:58:28

Went to mum and baby yoga today, not that keen, probably already doing the stretchy movements with him anyway out of instinct and the poo dance. Will prob go again as it is drop in and fits in with ds1 being at nursery but not sure that I would bother otherwise. Best bit chatting to other mums.

Has rather put me off baby sensory class I was thinking of, after all he gets lots of stimulation from ds1 and it is not like we're keeping him in a paper bag...

Zara1984 Mon 21-Jan-13 20:09:38

I'm sorry for your loss Squid sad always sad even if it was expected.

Crazy... wow. Somebody make that woman a cup of tea! Respect.

OK so DS tried to roll over this morning for the first time while DH was changing his nappy on the bed! We helped him to finish the roll and he looked very pleased with himself but hasn't attempted it again. However (unlike what the books say) he's trying to roll from back to front - so I've been putting the poor baby on his tummy trying to get him to roll that way! And he's like errrr no mum.

squidkid Mon 21-Jan-13 20:18:06

Thanks guys
ShagMonday has made it all a bit better
As has Jess going to bed at 7pm (as opposed to 1am last night!!)
As has wine...

Zara1984 Mon 21-Jan-13 20:21:58

grin Squid

Argh ok as I mentioned on FB group, DS is fascinated by food! Already! Help! One of his favourite activities is looking at fruit. He also stares at us when we eat. This morning he watched DH and I eat cereal and buttered crumpets for breakfast very intently, and made chewing/sucking shapes with his mouth. And reached his hand out! confused

And he squeaks frustratedly if eg DH is eating while I'm giving DS his bottle.

17 weeks on the dot for weaning then....

Londonmrss Mon 21-Jan-13 21:21:45

Zara ever since I found out the other day that you're a kiwi, whenever I read your messages I keep hearing Rhys Darby's voice... Sorry- my only frame of reference for the NZ accent is Flight of the Concords!

i luffs gary barlow. he is such a beautiful man grin

oh squid. im so sorry about your gran. be kind to yourself and have lots of cuddles with jess- your gran is in a better place eh? big big hugs for you. even when expected its still sad. xxxxxx

lisbethsopposite Mon 21-Jan-13 21:55:39

Firsttime I can't help with fb. Too much of a luddite. Hang around here awhile - as we have shared so much here in the last year. Well we're not unfriendly , just cautious.

Squid sorry about your gran. It sounds like a full life with a peaceful end.

Elpis a wise gp once told me a good prognosticator for ms was the gap between first and second symptom. Your first symptom probably resolved spontaneously and you may not remember it now... weakness/ altered sensation/ double vision. Was it days or weeks or months to next?

I took my car for routine service today - 2 new tyres ,2 brake pads and tracking . They put on tyres for free confused.
Good job I`m too sore to shop because that car swallowed my wallet.
SAHM debate. I am too old to be putting my age on here (again) but I have come across many lonely mums of teenagers who cannot get back to work. I would strongly recommend trying to stay in the workforce, even if it's only a few hrs a week and does not make financial sense in short term.

lisbethsopposite Mon 21-Jan-13 22:04:10

Squid i got this dress.


I got a size smaller than my usual. I am 14 and 12 is perfect. I like it with boots.
My makeup class was cancelled! Not enough people interested.
No sex here but I am in bed with a beautiful boy.
GP today said healing great. grin

Zara1984 Mon 21-Jan-13 22:08:46

Londonmrs that is brilliant!! Very good. I will try to sound even more like Rhys Darby in my posts. grin

Here's a Flight of the Conchord tune for kids, it's actually one of my favourite songs grin ok clearly it's not really for kids.... Albi the Racist Dragon

Elpis Mon 21-Jan-13 22:43:15

Thinking of you, squid.

We had a half-hour screamfest tonight - most unlike him. He kept trying to latch on but would only suck for a few seconds and didn't get letdown, so came off again and screamed harder. The volume made my ears ache. And he was so ANGRY. When he finally quietened down (I had to put DD to bed throughout all this) he fell asleep almost immediately. On reflection I think he was overtired - he dropped off on me several times today but I kept having to get up and do things. Must try harder to encourage him to sleep during the day. Sigh. I know I'm very lucky with him and rarely have to deal with this kind of thing.

DH off to Singapore tomorrow, until Saturday, when we go to Paris for two days. Hate being on my own. What if one of them is seriously ill? And it's so full-on - not that DH does a lot of childcare, but at least we can deal with DD's dinner time petulance together, and I don't have to hear 'I want Daddy' every twenty minutes.

Whinge whine.

OctoberOctober Tue 22-Jan-13 03:26:38

elpis I feel for you coping with 2 on your own. And the 'I want dp' drives me mad too, sometimes I want to shout 'Well you've got me, aren't I enough?'. Must try not to act like a petulant child...

squid really sorry to hear about your gran. Reaffirm in life through Jess. Thinking of you.

funchum8am Tue 22-Jan-13 04:57:12

squid sorry about your gran. Hope you are coping ok.

Huge respect to cranky...four!!

Think we are starting teething here - nothing to see but clearly in pain and very u.settled and dribbly. No more than an hour between wakings since 12:30am. Oh dear.

Olivess Tue 22-Jan-13 05:33:58

After a few better nights (when I say better I mean waking every 2.5 hours - it's amazing how your perspective changes isn't it) tonight is and has been truly awful! Since the early evening waking every 45 mins to an hour. I got no evening to myself - only just enough time to make a cup of tea.

DH has pissed me off - he has literally provided no respite at all. He had to work all weekend, yesterday evening he didn't even complete her bath/change routine because she started screaming and he 'finds it too stressful', then he went to play football, got back and came to bed as she was waking for the 4 time said to DD 'what are you doing waking so much' then turned over and went to sleep, has literally slept like a baby (ha ha ha - bad joke) all night. I am happy to take most of the responsibility because he is self-employed and has a lot of work /pressure but a hug in the middle of the night would be nice or some acknowledgement and sympathy that this is bloody tough for me. Aaaaaggghhh!

squid sorry to hear your sad news, whilst you knew it was coming, it doesn't take away the sadness. Hope you have had a better nights sleep.

We have our 2nd set of jabs this morning.

So sorry about your nan Squid. flowers Sounds like she was very well-loved.

When I said Kranky earlier I meant Cranky. How on earth do you manage 4?! You sound so laid back about it. I wanted 4 or 5, but now I've had 1 I don't think I could cope. grin

Sorry about your shit nights Funchum and Olivess, sounds hard. I remember the every hour waking very clearly confused
Olivess, I have to do the majority because of DH's work too, but you're right, a hug or just someone to (whisper) rant to at the umpteenth wake up really does make a difference. DH is usually good with this. And when he's not, I kick him.

Bit of a muddled night/morning for us. It's nearly 3pm and I've only just got in the bath, but hey, at least I got there eventually.
I think I've become a bit lax with bedtime, reasoning that the later he goes the more I can sleep while he sleeps [selfish mummy]. This worked up to a point, but it's gone a bit too far now, will have to get back on track tonight.
We have an early start tomorrow for mum & baby Japanese class miles away.

we have our 8 week jabs today... i is not looking forward to it confused

Woolybob Tue 22-Jan-13 08:22:39

mickey twill be worse for you than her love - have you got some calpol in just in case? We have our 16 week jabs next week, I forget the age range on here!

squid so sorry about your nan but glad it was peaceful, I think it sounds like the kind of death we would pick if that makes sense.

Sleep regression seems to have parked in the wooly household for the foreseeable future. Though it was getting a bit better but last two nights up every 2 hours again. Felt bad but then read your posts funch & olivess that's pretty epic non sleepage. And angry at your dh olivess 'too stressful'?? I know they work and need sleep but we are on duty 24/7 and a bit of moral support doesn't go amiss.

Was feeling a bit down yesterday so dh suggested I make a list of things I miss doing that cheer me up and he'll make sure I get time to do them. Just silly things like have been too worried to get a haircut in case dd cries all the way through (stupid I know). Anyway thought it was a nice idea, we are lucky as she'll take a bottle of formula if I'm not there but even if not might be a good exercise to suggest to your partners? It's a long depressing end to winter without any fun in it! Hope that makes sense and doesn't sound too patronising!

Welcome cranky - wouldn't worry too much about posting etiquette - sounds like you have your hands full! grin

Olivess Tue 22-Jan-13 09:16:40

Thanks wooly. That sounds like a great idea. I'm really sad though and all I really miss is having a bit of time to do some crafting. I've been really enjoying an hour of knitting a night when DD has gone to sleep but yesterday that was scuppered by her epic sleep fail. That was probably what put me in such a bad mood. DH did tAke baby olives for 45 mins this morning while I slept a bit longer. I still feel rough though.

Cheesymonster Tue 22-Jan-13 09:20:36

Sorry for your loss squid

Orenishii Tue 22-Jan-13 10:04:06

Sorry to hear about your nan, squid She was well loved and had a long life, and peaceful death. That is all any of us can ask for xx

Londonmrss Tue 22-Jan-13 10:25:55

The Natal Hypnotherapy people just emailed me asking for feedback on how they helped with my labour. So I gave it, mostly using words like 'utterly useless', 'agonising' and phrases like 'wished I was dead'. grin grin grin

hufflepuffle Tue 22-Jan-13 10:31:49

Hey. Squid I'm sorry to hear about your nan. Even when waiting on it to happen, it's still do sad. Love to you. So great you got to bring Jess to see her. Very special.

I am beside myself with tiredness. I feel sick. Crap nights usually interspaced with good ones. But I can't remember last good one. I should however count self lucky. He wakes to feed about every 2 hrs but at least goes back to sleep. It's just the constant waking and no deep sleep.
And no daytime naps beyond 35 mins for days. What is going on???

Baby massage today. Half country snowed in. Just texted her to see if cancelled. It's not. Hate paying for these things in advance, FFS. Doesn't look like anyone in whole street has tried to get car out. DH has stayed home and says he will drive us. Am I mental??

Oh I'd like a day off.

smileyhappymummy Tue 22-Jan-13 10:40:43

squid so sorry to hear about your nan. I am so pleased she got to meet her gorgeous great grand daughter, I love the photo on fb. Take care of yourself (and hurray for shagmonday!).
Is it bad that I am relieved that so many others of about the same age have sleep regression? Not wishing sleeplessness on anyone else but nice not to be alone. Much more crying and clinging here and waking every 90 minutes at least. Bought wonder weeks and reading that is good too - always noticed with dd1 that she was fussy and miserable just before a big developmental change so it makes sense to me.
Snow isn't helping either - I want to get out for a walk but can't. Humph.

Orenishii Tue 22-Jan-13 10:44:28

See London I managed 12 hours "hypnobirthing" and I was doing fine with contractions of 1 min long, 2 mins apart - until he turned, at which point I just lost it mentally. So I'll never know but i think a lot had to do with the environment - I was utterly unprepared for being in hospital and felt sick - physically sick - with how wrong it all was. I was prepared for pain but not the mental torture of being pressured into a place I did not want to be.

Who knows. If I'd been at home in my pool and he hadn't turned, I'd have coped til the end. I still believe in that approach but my mistake was to only think about it within certain parameters. Do you think you won't try it again?

Orenishii Tue 22-Jan-13 11:00:14

Having said that...I dunno if it helped but I'd done a lot of martial arts and had a lot of ring fights in the past, and a lot of experience of controlling adrenaline. I really, really believed in it and I credit DH a lot with being my "corner man" and dragging my mind back to focusing when I looked like I was losing it. He was dogged about it and using all sorts of tactics - it actually pissed me off at times but he got me through, like the coach he is.

So maybe those things helped. I was actually looking forward to the pain, in a primal way, and was ridiculously excited when the contractions started, even though they hit me like a truck!

hufflepuffle Tue 22-Jan-13 11:00:25

London not sure if I should tell you but your reaction to natal hypnobollocks has cheered me right up!!!!!! I too thought it would save me!!!!!!! I clearly remember using the word hypnobollocks out loud several times in my birthing pool!!!!

Tho seriously, think it actually helped me considerably in pregnancy. Taught me not to be afraid. Then reality hit like a steam roller!!!!!!

Elpis Tue 22-Jan-13 11:02:19

Huffle - yes, lack of deep sleep is an absolute killer. I blame lack of concentration on that.

DH has lost his passport, so probably won't be going to Singapore. Much angst. Frankly, it is his own fault for accumulating so much stuff. His tiny study is a tip and he relies on periodic clear outs.

Orenishii Tue 22-Jan-13 11:05:52

I also think, for first timers doing it, you can't escape an element of fear because you've no idea what birth will be like or what will happen.

But next time around, I do hope to try and turn all that fear and experience of pain into something to embrace. I guess i also sorta think there's no point fighting it either?

Angelico Tue 22-Jan-13 11:07:57

Mostly marking place but a quick hug for Squid - so sorry about your gran thanks It does sound like she had a really good long life and was well looked after at the end.

And also in throes of 4 month sleep regression here and I'm so tired I can hardly function. She didn't fall asleep till 01:00, then up at 01:49 to feed, then fed again 05:15. Had a longer sleep then till tennish but fucking white noise on radio kept waking me. She's sleeping again now while I look out at the snow (better late than never) and wonder how the hell I'm going to get out of the drive confused I need coffee and then I'm going to wake her and try and get things started.

How long can this last??? It's like being back at when she was 6 or 7 weeks old only then I was at least used to sleep deprivation. It's the shock of having had normal-ish sleep and now it being gone again that's making us stagger round like zombies confused She's feeding more than usual but then gets more windy than usual too so it's a doubled edged sword. I'm also wondering am I actually making enough milk.

<crawls off on hands and knees towards coffee maker>

Angelico Tue 22-Jan-13 11:09:02

And I'm 35, currently going on 95...

squidkid Tue 22-Jan-13 11:09:47

Thank you all for thoughts about my gran. She had a big family and a good life and death, so I am not upset - just strange, and sad for my dad mostly.

Jess slept like an angel last night, as if knowing I needed it. I love her.

I thought the hypnobirthing was useless at the time because I was expecting it to help with the pain? (Which it didn't.) But - I never ever felt like anything bad was going to happen to me or the baby and I felt safe - so perhaps it helped with the fear? I felt I was out of control, so it was extremely cathartic and helpful to read my medical notes, which one of the midwives left at my house accidentally one time. It repeated time and time again, right till the end: "Coping well." I know some people would find it upsetting that a midwife claimed they were coping when they felt they weren't, but actually I found it really good to read.
Also apparently midwife told my boyfriend when he helped her back to her car with her kit, that it had been a really hard labour and she would have transferred most women but I was managing very well so she didn't (boyfriend didn't think to tell me this for a couple of weeks!)
(Cannot underestimate the power of good support though. I sent my midwife a lengthy thank you letter. And have been lavishing boyfriend and best mate with presents ever since!! Boyfriend did particularly well, he is quite squeamish and likes to sort things out, and watching your girlfriend in labour you must feel pretty useless. He just kept telling me I was doing amazingly.)
So even though I felt like hypnobirthing was useless - who knows how much it actually helped. I certainly did a lot of breathing!! red angry fucking light
Though, unlike orenisshi and londonmrss, my labour didn't go "wrong", it was just so fucking hard, so maybe it is unhelpful for interventions etc.
I do have a friend who planned a home birth and ended up with an unsuccessful induction and c-sec at 43+4(!!) - she said hypnobirthing helped her, on the table, having her section - to accept it.
I don't know.

Orenishii Tue 22-Jan-13 11:11:11

Am in deep denial of 4 month sleep regression. Hugs to everyone going through it. Two things:


Angelico Tue 22-Jan-13 11:17:23

Londonmrs just read your feedback and it gave me a much needed laugh grin

squidkid Tue 22-Jan-13 11:25:21

lisbeth wise words, about lonely mums of teenagers. I am determined to at least keep one foot in my career even if I have another kid etc - it is so tough to re-train if you are out for over 2 years. Lovely dress, I like the one with pockets on that site too - but hand washing is not for me grin
olives I'd have kicked your DH!!!
woolybobs DH - that's more like it!!

So much sympathy for the poor sleep. We've had it for around a week (still not bad by most people's standards) - but last night was fine. Maybe some of them will be short-lived????

Right me and Jess are going out. Fuck the snow!

FjordMor Tue 22-Jan-13 11:40:08

Marking place...

crazypaving Tue 22-Jan-13 12:01:43

anyone know if it's normal for a 15w old baby to feed 4 times in 24hrs? surely this can't be enough to keep him alive, let alone growing???

Londonmrss Tue 22-Jan-13 12:18:43

crazy, are they decent feeds when you have them? ours are still difficult. we're on about 5 in 24 hours, but have enough wet nappies so assume she's feeding efficiently when she does feed. still very hit and miss tough and every day she's refusing to feed at all until after 10am and is refusing the last feed of the day too.

Londonmrss Tue 22-Jan-13 12:28:50

by the way, if anyone sees my sex drive can you please tell it to come back home to me? it will be welcomed with open arms and legs

Londonmrss Tue 22-Jan-13 12:36:02

oh god for a second I thought I'd accidentally put that last post as my status on facebook instead of on here... phew.

crazypaving Tue 22-Jan-13 13:12:05

LondonMrs grin grin that would be quite a status.

the feeds are pretty big but seriously, 4 a day? it's around 10am, 3pm, midnight and 4am atm. how can he be ok with that amount of sustenance??

CookieMonster88 Tue 22-Jan-13 13:36:03

Squid, so sorry to hear about your nan, we lost my grandad last year and I know what you mean about not being upset, I was more sad for my Dad as they were so close having always worked together on the family farm.

Who ever mentioned Wonder Weeks a few days ago THANK YOU. It helps so much with understanding what DD is up to at the moment, think we are in the throw of the 12 week development phase. Hence the rubbish sleep and extra clinginess. Also got some good ideas for simple entertainment.

Even more snow here hmm made it to baby group but there were only 4 of us there, at least it got us out the house. DH got stuck in a snow drift last night, made the evening very long as my help wasn't there hmm feel for those who have partners who regularly go away.

lisbethsopposite Tue 22-Jan-13 13:55:08

Catching up on phone so I'll post as I go along.
London guess they wont be using you under 'Testimonials'. grin
huffle smiley Awake here last night at 11-12, 1.30-2, 3.30-4... lost track here.
Anyway in bed with baby now after 2 panadol for tired headache. Ds1 asleep.
Also glad so many others are having same experience! Misery needs company.
Found a stretchy swaddle sheet in Heatons so fingers crossed.

FirstTimeForEverything Tue 22-Jan-13 13:59:44

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lisbethsopposite Tue 22-Jan-13 14:06:31

wooly Dh sounds fab . We need a word for an empathetic intuitive partner - opposite of nobber. confused
elpis a mini break to Paris. That sounds soo wonderful. envy Please let us know how it goes.

grin London, much more interesting than the usual shite dreary statuses!
And I'd totally forgotten about the hypnobollocks, been meaning to ask you all how it went?

Feel for you all stuck inside with the snow, I've not had any plans for 2 days and I'm officially bored out my brain and in a foul mood. But the rest of the week is non-stop, trekking all over the place so I'll probably be complaining about that in a few days.

lisbeth tired headaches are the worst sad, hope you get a good nap today. You too, Huffle (and anyone else who had a crap night).

The new school year starts in April here (when I'll go back to work) so preparations/schedules/planning etc starting now. I don't even want to think about it. I do love my job, but am seriously lacking in motivation at the moment.

lisbethsopposite Tue 22-Jan-13 14:20:12

Eek firsttime you are scaring me.
Paul is 17 weeks today and also on 75 centile when measured weeks ago. There the sameness ends. He feeds umpteen times a day and recently every 90 mins at night.
My new swaddle will fix all <hope emoticon>

Londonmrss Tue 22-Jan-13 14:21:09

crazy does lo seem otherwise healthy? how many wet nappies? that's what I'm keeping my eye on through this difficult feeding phase. kellymom has a calculator to work out how much a breastfeed baby needs per feed based on how often they fed and if you can guess how fast your milk flows based on pumping or can give you an idea (obviously not accurate though). really its best to look at the whole picture. it's he alert and happy the rest of the time? enough wet nappies?
I'm struggling emotionally still with the feeding issues. when she feeds nicely is lovely but at least still twice a day she rejects- in a way that suggests I'm abusing her in some way. today she refused a feed by instead puking on me. it's a phase, its a phase.

FirstTimeForEverything Tue 22-Jan-13 14:25:19

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lisbethsopposite Tue 22-Jan-13 14:48:59

I'll be very nice when you are done in and my fella settles (probably). grin

WantAnOrange Tue 22-Jan-13 14:58:47

Squid sorry to hear about your Gran passing but 91, thats amazing! I hope I make it to 91.

DD did not go to sleep last night. I swear I fed her for 12 hours straight. What the bloody hell is going on?! I had to finish an essay today and only managed to get it done by feeding with one arm and typing with the other. I'm so tired.

Am waiting for dishwasher to arrive that was supposed to be delivered on friday, hoping it will make life a little easier.

funchum8am Tue 22-Jan-13 15:22:44

lisbeth woolly huddle and all others in sleep deprivation hell I share your pain. babyfunch has never slept well karma because I used to believe parents were to blame for difficult offspring but am dying on my arse here, trying to instruct a plumber fixing our shower but just gibbering at him. Thankfully babyfunch is asleep for now (just at a time I can't be!)

cherry what do you teach? English? I got my new timetable yesterday - I will be teaching a real mix of things which are new to me! But I haven't got any exam groups so my falling asleep in lessons won't cause anyone to fail their A levels grin

Babyfunch's cot is arriving today too, so more flat pack for us to wrestle with.

Love the idea of a term meaning the opposite of nobber to apply to DHs who are behaving...any suggestions??

Woolybob Tue 22-Jan-13 15:52:46

How about rebbon? A backwards nobber! Yes he's a good 'un, but also owes me for letting him go snowboarding for the week! Actually trying to think.of things I used to do has made me realise that I could actually do a lot of them now with baby in tow and am just being a bit useless. So NY resolution to be more proactive!

squid I remember when my dad's mum died a few years ago - felt the same, it was my dad I felt for, especially when his cousin came up to hom at the funeral and pointed out that they were 'the older generation now'! Also my nan had a massive thing about noone knowing her age and had made my dad swear not to reveal it. However the undertakers put a plaque on her coffin that said died x aged x. As they lowered it into the grave and we all saw it you could just feel all my immediate family thinking 'oh shit, she's coming back to haunt us' and not daring to make eye contact with each other. So far so good though grin .

Olivess Tue 22-Jan-13 15:55:10

lisbeth we too have just purchased a new swaddle/sleeping bag thingy - I'm pinning my hopes on this working and helping DD to sleep 8 straight hours tonight (wishful thinking don't think I will ever get that much sleep ever again).

Had our 12 week jabs today - she cried but it was not so bad - she cried more last night after her bath.

Doctor was very nice - DD has a strawberry birthmark on her forehead which is quite raised. I'm not concerned about it cos I know they go away in time but he said he would refer us if we wanted another opinion.

Just watched great British comic relief bake off with DD asleep in my arms and a cup of tea and a biscuit! Bliss.

BoraBora Tue 22-Jan-13 16:09:56

olivess snap, we have a strawberry birth mark on the lip. I am a bit worried because Dr. Google said its going to grow forever, enveloping her head. Stupid Dr. mummy Google.

Speaking of doctors, Squid what did you do before becoming a medic?!

Olivess Tue 22-Jan-13 16:22:37

bora definitely best not to read google and definitely not google images - I made the mistake of doing that. Our birthmark is quite big now - about the size of 20p and raised up quite high with kind of blue bruising underneath. I'm used to it now and I don't think it's grown for a few weeks ( it grew quite large over Christmas) so hoping that'll be it for now. I'm used to it and hardly notice it anymore but I am quite aware when we meet people for the first time. Are you leaving yours?

squidkid Tue 22-Jan-13 16:48:18

bora as Olivess says the strawberry birthmarks can grow but do disappear on their own in time... never google!

Before being a medic I was mostly drunk or stoned... had a great time in my 20s working pointless office/shop jobs and doing loads of writing and drugs.

BoraBora Tue 22-Jan-13 16:59:09

Olivess well the GP made no mention if having anything done about it. It has grown, but slowly. Its maybe a couple of millimetres in diameter, but is in a conspicuous place; right on the now of her lip.

Squid sounds awesome. I think it's odd that the standard route into medicine requires you to know that's what you want to do essentially at 16. You'd never let someone onto clinical psychology training at 18, and I don't think it's that different!

BoraBora Tue 22-Jan-13 16:59:44

*bow, not now of her lip

funchum8am Tue 22-Jan-13 17:10:02

I like rebbon smile My DH is mostly a rebbon, bless him.

Babyfunch has a port wine stain birthmark on her hip. Doctor said it was nothing to worry about, I have no idea if they disappear or not...think he said it might now I come to think of it.

Squid you sound like a doctor I could relate to! My brother qualified as a doctor after doing a different degree first and is now doing really well! I think the life experience helps you in a job dealing with people in a job like that.

crazypaving Tue 22-Jan-13 17:47:49

thanks first and London. he is fine and happy, just his weight has always been an issue and the doctor is breathing down my neck about it. I'm 5'10" and dh is 6'3" so wasn't expecting a tiddler, especially as he was 8lb 3oz at birth. keep you guessing don't they.

trying not to stress too much about it but easier said than done. it's so hard not to compare - ds1 was absolutely huge and fed non-stop.

squid sorry about your grandmother. hope the family are coping ok.

just had so many lovely smiles and chuckles from babypaving. when he smiles he really goes for it and opens his mouth as wide as he can. it's hilarious! he loves physical humour - tickles, being zoomed around, standing up and bouncing. very different to ds1 again! how can 2 brothers be so different already? it constantly amazes me!

WantAnOrange Tue 22-Jan-13 18:29:43

Does anybody know how to install a dishwasher? blush

Londonmrss Tue 22-Jan-13 18:39:06

just don't let your husband do it... unless he actually knows what he's doing.

smile4me Tue 22-Jan-13 18:43:04

Arghhhhh half way through catch up grin Am frantically trying to finish case report and study for another exam.
We are also firmly in 4 month sleep regression... now waking up at night crying! This never happened even as newborn.... was only ever sort of grumbles and a funny bark like a fawn. So not nice! I'd forgotten how tired even getting up once in the night makes you, so hats of to you ladies doing multiple get ups!
We also have rolling! Back onto front, except can't get shoulder under yet. But she goes round and round in circles rolling if I leave her on the floor. And finally proper thumb sucking.Although this doesn't appear to be helping at night confused. She also seems much less interested in drinking... either that or my boobs have gone into overdrive and ramped up production unasked for? maybe it's just all the food I ate over the weekend!
Londonmrs are you still having feeding issues? We are back to that again... especially if I'm anywhere different. She just can't concentrate and gets grumpy after 2 sucks! Very frustrating, as makes it a total mission to go anywhere for long. Sometimes I can calm her down by rocking her up and down, but doesn't always work hmm

Weigh in last week she was 8.5kg (18lb 10 I think confused ) so on 99th percentile, but also long so no hassles about getting overfed. TBH I couldn't feed her less anyway, well I could but I'd have to give her to someone else to put up with the screaming for 2 hrs! I'm shortie, and DH is average, so I'm sure it all evens out eventually.

Loving the discussion on schools (only a few years to wait) and childcare... we don't have much choice where to send her as only 1 school within 40kms, unless I want to drive 100kms into town twice a day! But firmly with squid in the belief that the most important part is the learning at home.

I was thinking about weaning... if breast milk has the highest density of calories of anything (except maybe avocado), why do we start weaning so early, and why do they recommend weaning really hungry babies earlier? Doesn't make any sense to me confused ?

And hair now totally falling out too! Finally managed to get a chop and thin out cos it was soooooo thick, and now i'm going to be bald shock. Has anyone else's hair gone much darker during pregnancy? I'm not quite dark brown, before was sort of mousy.... eyebrows dark too!

Anyway, back to work.... grrrr

WantAnOrange Tue 22-Jan-13 18:44:35

Neither of us know. Instructions are very simple and we already have all the right plumbing because previous tenants had one. Still, maybe its a dumb question but should it be connected to hot water feed or cold water feed? for some reason we have 2 spare hot water ones and a cold water one. Also, there isnt a connector on the waste pipe, it looks like the last tenants just fed it through without securing it so that cant be good can it? confused

Wantan I dont think it really matters if you have hot water or cold water feed, all the dishwasher does it heat up the water- might save you energy bills connecting it to the hot water feed. Just remember to block off the remaining other feeds.
And er.. I wouldn't know about the waste pipe. Sorry!!

smile4me Tue 22-Jan-13 19:18:10

OK finally there!
Sorry to hear about your gran squid flowers

wantan sorry no idea about dishwashers. Don't own one cos we don't own many plates,so if we had a dishwasher we'd never have anything to eat off.

DH is generally a rebbon (ha had to think heaps about how to spell that grin ) but is still adjusting to the fact that we have to plan things around bubba and can't leave the house in 5 mins any more!

cookie I found wonder weeks pretty accurate in timing for crankiness/sleep upsets, but don't really know if DD did the 'mental leaps' they talk about. I know it helped me to have something to blame the fussiness on though not just crap mothering skills and a bit of reassurance that this too shall pass! We are heading for the 19w wonder week sometime soon (hits early cos she was running late --just like her mother --)

Hi cranky [waving from down under]

Its been a fucking horrendous day here. Jabs at 2pm, and she didn't stop screaming until 5pm. Well, she screamed for about an hour, then had some food and went to sleep for about half hour. So I popped to the shop (thinking she'd stay asleep) and came back to another screamathon- hungry and overtired, big time- She was so so stressed out and screaming so badly that she refused to latch on, because she didn't realise that I was trying to feed her. I finally managed to calm her down enough after 45 mins of full on, tears and everything to get her to latch on. She fell asleep practically instantly. I was in tears by the end of this. It was horrible. I felt like an utterly shit mother. Utterly helpless. Ugh. sad

And I also love the idea of rebbon DP is mostly a rebbon <3

hufflepuffle Tue 22-Jan-13 19:27:31

Wantan. Google it. Bound to be a u tube video.

U know how women living together apparently attune their monthly cycles? I think our babies are all now telepathically linked and all becoming tricky little bastards going through a phase together? Or are they all just so predictable?

So incredibly glad I an nit returning to full time work next week as planned. I have another 4 weeks of exhaustion to wear me out first.

Where did my reasonably predictable, mostly placid baby go?? He is actually currently asleep in swing with a definite scowl on his face. Poor wee sod. sad

Angelico Tue 22-Jan-13 19:30:44

Crazy sorry no help on feeding schedule but reckon if beans are growing well try not to worry - the little buggers soon change their tune anyway, just as you think you have them sussed... <grrrr emoticon>

Hats off to anyone with persistent night time wakers as I would be dead by now. Hoping she settles tonight without maggotry. Lisbeth do let us know how the swaddle thing works out and what type it is. I had a miracle blanket which was brilliant but she has grown out of it so got a new swaddle thing with velcro recommended on sleep board. Unfortunately she can escape Houdini-style (complete with much wrestling / panting / throwing herself around like old escape artist videos) so has to be re-tucked after each feed. Hands have still reached chin by morning...

On strawberry birthmarks - one here too. GP said they tend to get worse for a couple of years, then gradually fade over a number of years - but generally seems to just be leave well alone.

Hip dysplasia - anyone else getting bean's x-rayed? Our bean has uneven skin folds so has been referred for X-rays. She has cousins on both sides of family who have needed X-Ray / hip girdle thing so keeping fingers crossed she'll be alright sad

Sleep deprivation / settling - found this link whilst googling - gives a sort of overview of techniques. Haven't read it all yet but might have something helpful to someone.

FX for sleepy beans all round...

Angelico Tue 22-Jan-13 19:32:25

And a hug for Mickey - everyone feels pure evil after taking beans for jabs. Once 3rd lot are done you're clear for 9 months... x

WantAnOrange Tue 22-Jan-13 19:54:40

DH has figured out what we need and my little bro is coming over tomorrow because he is far more manly and helpful (please note 'little bro' is actually nearly 22 and about the size of a house, muscle not fat).

DD has now been feeding for 27 hours straight, apart from a brief interlude when I ate dinner and shoved a bottle in her mouth. Another HV I spoke to suggested the cheapest bottles I could find and she actually accepted it angry. Well she did today, who knows how madam will behave tomorrow.

Zara1984 Tue 22-Jan-13 20:00:54

Yep got unpredictable behaviour from DS here too! Yes the feckers are all telepathically linked....

He's waking up every night at about 2/3am for a feed again - knew the sleeping through wouldn't last! On the plus side he is going down to sleep at 6.30pm no bother- I just plop him down, swaddle and walk away. Strange!

Ok am officially done with NZ. Want to get back home to normality and my cats - DH and I are even thinking of changing our flights! shock DMIL will freak out if we do, but DH has lots of work to do and it's just not getting done here. Probably feeling grumpy as I got sunburnt yesterday :/ I have horrific tan/burn lines from the short sleeve dress I was wearing.

Had a friend over yesterday with her 2 year old and her 6 month old. Seeing the two of them (and comparing with another friend who's pregnant and has a 2.5 year old) made me realise I think I want to wait until DS is 2 before we TTC for another. I think we only want 2 kids anyway. Yeah we could do 3+ but I think I only have enough tolerance for two <shamelessly selfish emoticon> can't believe I'm thinking about that anyway! But it means I'll be off to get the coil then when I'm back home.

hufflepuffle Tue 22-Jan-13 20:01:29

Angelico thanks for link. Currently reading. V v v interesting. And more than a bit worrying............. shock

hufflepuffle Tue 22-Jan-13 21:42:43

Yep. Very useful reading. I suggest you all follow! Interested in finding new sleep associations to replace rocking!! Just ordered a Cuski. Try anything, me! He was self settling q well but back to feeding to sleep with some rocking.

Thank u Angelico. Good find.

Londonmrss Tue 22-Jan-13 22:45:35

has anyone else's baby had the bcg jab? I know they don't do it everywhere but I'm just wondering when the blister is going to come up.

hugs wantan- that sounds exhausting.

Londonmrss Tue 22-Jan-13 22:48:02

Zara my little one had started trying to roll from back to front too (was it you who mentioned that?). she uses one leg to push her bum up at one side, but can only roll her hips at the mo. she only does it when naked, strangely.

BoraBora Tue 22-Jan-13 23:00:19

London mine does that when naked. I didn't associate it with rolling. I just thought she was nuts.

is it a good idea to start kickboxing? or should i give myself another couple of months to recover?

lisbethsopposite Tue 22-Jan-13 23:18:59

Zara it is forecast 4-10 degrees over next few days here. I hate sunburn but the thought of sun and heat on my bones sounds great. We hardly had the sun this summer. Don't you miss it? Get your vit D fix before you return to this grey land.

What do people here think of Boden? I have discovered it in last yr and undecided on quality for price.

Angelico Tue 22-Jan-13 23:21:09

Oh no Huffle hope it's not going to tell me everything I've done ever is wrong grin I feel like we started really well, then gradually introduced various props like the swaddling (which is okay really), ditto white noise - but the dummy is the one I have a feeling might become an issue. Was fine when she used it to go to sleep once at start of night then slept for 10-12 hrs but now that she's waking more frequently...

I think they roll / move more naked is because they get better grip and thus propulsion with bare feet grin Mini loves her changing mat with bare feet as she can really propel herself - I make sure she is never left there alone with bare feet or God knows where I would find her when I came back...

Already had one wake up to feed, going to bed in fit of optimism <sniggers>

Night ladies x

Angelico Tue 22-Jan-13 23:22:12

Oh and Zara you're fecking bonkers wanting to come back to this rain-lashed freezing island - please let me go and wallow in the lovely sun grin

Anyone seen Planktonette around?

lisbethsopposite Tue 22-Jan-13 23:24:52

Mike probably a little early for you. (aren't you the youngest baby?).
Do it kinda low grade. Listen to your body. Keep kicks smaller. Mind your pubic symphesis so no knees wide apart.

smileyhappymummy Wed 23-Jan-13 01:26:28

Have just discovered that baby smiley can move herself to the other end of her cot and turn through 180 degrees! Impressive....
However, she is rubbish at self settling. Never mind, it will come! Hoping everyone is getting lots of sleep tonight....

OctoberOctober Wed 23-Jan-13 02:33:42

So waking 2-3am looks to be a regular thing...

YompingJo Wed 23-Jan-13 03:43:56

Mini yomping doesn't seem well sad. She kept bringing up milk yesterday and then in the evening her nose seemed blocked - either some of the mucus and milk she brought up had got stuck or she has a cold - either way, the result is a horrible grunty/gurgle/snuffling sound when she breathes through her nose and when she tries to latch on to feed, she finds it hard to breathe/swallow so keeps unlatching. it's affecting her sleeping, last night it took 3 hours to feed and fall asleep because she kept panicking and crying even though she could breathe well enough to cry! Very unsettled for 3 hours and now awake again and feeding very noisily.

It's this normal? Was very close to taking her to walk-in centre last night but feel a bit silly, as she can breathe and feed but it is hard for her. What can I do to help her? Going into town today to get one of the nasal aspirators that you suck as it seems like blockage is in her nose, but can I do anything else? Horrible seeing her struggling and not knowing how to help sad

Olivess Wed 23-Jan-13 05:15:13

Baby olives has had a blocked nose for the past 2 months on and off. We have been using a nasal spray which loosens up everything inside and now she is 3 months I have just bought some olbas oil which I've put on a tissue in the bedroom. Our GP said as long as she can feed not to worry. But if you are concerned then go to the walk-in cos I did read somewhere that you should get young babies with colds checked out. They won't think you are silly.

hufflepuffle Wed 23-Jan-13 06:13:24

Yompingjo are you using saline drops? They help to unblock if you're not. Also, need to use them before you use aspirater to loosen up any snot. Perhaps you are already. We've had partially blocked nose on and off from start, much better past month. But it's never stopped him feeding (no surprise) and never caused him to bring up milk. If you are concerned at all get him checked, as Olivess says, they want to see babies if you worried. Tho waiting room germs aren't that attractive to me either........

hufflepuffle Wed 23-Jan-13 06:14:04

Obviously mini Yomping is her not him......

smileyhappymummy Wed 23-Jan-13 07:21:05

Agree, saline nose drops or spray good but any worries get her checked -,no one minds and it's worth it if only for peace of mind.
Sleep here continues to deteriorate. Now only in 45 minute chunks. No idea what to do except hope it passes soon, she just seems to wake up and want us, wanting lots of snuggles. Lovely but I want sleep too!

Londonmrss Wed 23-Jan-13 07:34:24

hmm. difficult feeding all day yesterday. then she fed 3 times between 6.30 and 9pm. then she slept for 9 hours straight.

I have no idea what to expect today.

lisbethsopposite Wed 23-Jan-13 07:57:30

Yomping I second the advice on drops and sprays. I could get no good out of the nasal aspirator. Also i found in the bath to wipe nose with wet flannel or sponge like a kleenex always brought out some gunk.

The wrap worked!!!
We woke at 7 and there were at least 2 night feeds (brief and straight back to sleep!!), but baby and I slept most of night. Wrap was E10 in Heatons. Brand WISEY . Looks like a cheap scarf. It is slightly stretchy with no velcro but did the job.

hufflepuffle Wed 23-Jan-13 09:13:09

Crap crap Smiley, 45 mins....... Oof

London sounding promising..............

Lisbeth bloody brill....... Don't think there are heatons in uk. U might be going shopping for us all.......

Last 2 days we now on 10 feeds per 24 hrs!!! ??????

Last night I tried to pre empt his waking by being more awake myself and putting Ewan on when he stirred. Slightly more successful. One wake at 3.30 I rocked him and no feeding needed. Thus only 3 feeds through night. He's up now and didn't want fed. First ever on morning wake. Wish I could find instruction booklet for this motherhood lark.

Londonmrss Wed 23-Jan-13 09:31:45

huffle my little one had refused morning feed every day for the last week. she doesn't want it till after her first nap. plus she hates the bath note. she loved it last week. just when I think I know her...!

squidkid Wed 23-Jan-13 09:32:16

So so sorry for all the sleep woes. Jess is taking a lot more effort to put down ( and needed feeding to sleep and sneaky transferring last night) but is still sleeping ok. She is feeding so much! 10-12 times in 24 hours - and she doesn't feed overnight!! In the day I am just a mlking station...

She cries and cries before every nap and i feel like such a mean mama - I am very strict she gets her naps though! she is unbearable in the evenig otherwise

A friend is giving us a cot and a travel cot, so that's great. Her poor wee legs are almost sticking out the basket now...

Er I have no other news I am very boring. Any ideas for things to do today, I have no plans so far...

squidkid Wed 23-Jan-13 09:34:54

I am on my 5th feed so far today... 4.30am, 6am, 7am , 8.30 am and now she wants more!

I'd still take the sleep though!!! grin

hufflepuffle Wed 23-Jan-13 09:42:00

Squid how do you get her to nap in day? Do you just put her in basket now? Or does she feed to sleep? DS no longer feeds to sleep in day at all. Will not settle in own. I feel v bad relying on car or pram and due to crap weather past few days has been the swing.......

London, I know, where did these new babies come from???? It's like being at the start again, bloody clueless. If he takes a notion against the bath I think I might give up!

Londonmrss Wed 23-Jan-13 09:52:11

huffle do you use a dummy? I definitely find it helpful for selling for daytime naps (I thought I was against dummies until I had a baby...) I just pop her down, stick the dummy in and as long as ashes been awake and active for an hour and a half or more she usually settles right down.

hufflepuffle Wed 23-Jan-13 10:03:53

I have nothing against dummies. Especially as DS seems to be sucking thumb. But he will NOT take one. I hav tried every bloomin brand. He will take it if awake, in good form and happy, if I hold it. Just sort of for something to do! But it gives no calming or pacifying qualities. I am so disappointed! And if my mother says once more "if he would take a wee dummy........"


He has now been in swing for 10 mins shouting at me. Not crying now, just shouting. And his eyes keep closing.

Thank you London, well worth a try!

I ordered a Cuski last night after reading that article. I think we need new sleep associations other than movement cos he can sleep at night without it. I was dead set against comforters. But I need to do something. Advice is to put it between you when feeding, teach him to cuddle it and slowly he will gain comfort from that cuddle. ( theoretically........) Ordered the bamboo one for breathability.

Staring at me now, means he nearly there. And HV due any minute.

hufflepuffle Wed 23-Jan-13 10:07:10

Ps. Dead jealous (in nicest possible way) of day napping easily babies. sad. I thought it just happened like that. And wonder if we just keep digging deeper and deeper with swing/car/pram. Hoping as he gets more active and more tired he will just magically sleep!!!

squidkid Wed 23-Jan-13 10:14:23

huffle hah! Daytime naps - I hold her, and rock her till she sleeps with dummy in stroking her head. Then I hold her till she wakes up, we get 30mins-2hrs. I tend to gather computer, book, cup of tea for this!! So very impractical. But I figure she'll onlyy be little enough to hold while she naps for a short while. And she is so good overnight i cannot complain!!

Orenishii Wed 23-Jan-13 10:16:09

I don't know what i am doing re sleep! I rely on DS way too much to know what he's doing sad We have no set nap times, I don't do anything specific to get him to sleep - I just try to make sure he sleeps at some point during the day. I feel like I am doing it all wrong.

squidkid Wed 23-Jan-13 10:18:15

you're in a tribe remember, there is no wrong!

squidkid Wed 23-Jan-13 10:19:03

My wise mum's philosophy on babies/sleep/etc is "go with what works".

hufflepuffle Wed 23-Jan-13 10:20:25

Aha! Sounds lovely! Used to do similar with DS but rocking him to sleep now in day nigh on impossible. He will only do it if standing and takes at least 20 mins. I'm afraid given weight of him and my dodgy back I quite simply cannot do it! He used to let me rock him on sofa.

So now he's back on me feeding and appears to be feeding to sleep.

Don't pay attention to anything I say cos I'm clearly incorrect!

BoraBora Wed 23-Jan-13 10:35:22

Hmm, well she gets very miserable when she's tired, so I hold her until she falls asleep. Some times I rock in in her basket. If I'm holding her and she falls asleep I might try and transfer her. She often wakes though, and even if she doesn't wake up straight away she won't sleep as long as if I'm holding her. So like Squid I tend to just hold her. She is significantly more delightful once she's slept, so its worth it (but yes, a bit restricting). Kindles are good for this! It also lets me read work-related papers, so I don't feel completely like I'm going brain dead.

My baby is loosing her lovely hair! Sob! Its only the cradle cap holding it on in places!

Woolybob Wed 23-Jan-13 10:43:36

Sleep - such a flipping minefield...

I often feed to sleep which depending what you read is either absolutely fine or completely the worst thing you can do. Feel like I could think about it more clearly if only I could get a bit more sleep! Catch 22 or what!

CookieMonster88 Wed 23-Jan-13 10:46:01

All sound familiar to me, dummy with gentle rocking or feeding to sleep for naps here. Also sleeps best on me but slowly trying to get her into her crib, very slow progress!

Really want the snow to go away now! Loads more overnight, can't get the car off the drive so no swimming lessons today and too much snow falling to venture out with the sling or pram hmm like Squid in need of something to do!

Orenishii Wed 23-Jan-13 10:49:14

Haha yes squid but my tribal name should be Worriestoomuch!

Our non routine is:

6/7am - Wake up, feed, go back to sleep - DS, not me, I take this time for myself!

10/11am - wake up, feed, play, go out. Sleep for a few hours here and there usually in the sling, on me or in the pram if he happens to be in it. Or on lambskin on sofa, or in bouncer. Anywhere really.

5/6pm ish onwards - sometimes a bath but generally spends the evening cuddling/feeding/napping with a random chat or play around 10pm.

11/11.30 pm - up to bed with me, in his gro bag, has a feed, lie him next to me and off he goes.

I don' know why it worries me but i might experiment taking him up about 8pm and put him down earlier. stay up there with him, and creep downstairs for a bit. but i don't know why i want to try doing this.

What happens with you guys?

squidkid Wed 23-Jan-13 10:59:10

We sort of have a routine

5am - start feeding marathon- I mostly sleep through this
6.30am - I get up and have an hour to myself, usually exercise
7.30-8.30 am - sort clothes, nappies, brekkie, chat before boyfriend - she is very happy at this time and usually sits in bouncy chair
9-11am - feeds, nap time
then i usually go out
we have another nap (or 2) any time between 12 and 4
5.30pm - dad time
6.30-7.30 pm - dad puts her to bed while I cook tea, I take a break to give her a final feed during this, and we eat when she goes to sleep
8-9pm - sex more often we just collapse with books on opposite sofas
I go to bed at 9pm. Like a loser.

I have an easy baby and a helpful boyfriend. blush

Londonmrss Wed 23-Jan-13 11:02:22

Oren my daytime routine goes in 2-3 hour blocks. wake up about 7am, try to feed, play for about an hour and a half, pop her down in the moses basket with dummy, she doses off for 45 minutes, wakes up, feeds, plays for an hour and a half, pop her down in the basket... and so on until 8pm when I give her a bath, massage, naked time, last feed (which she usually refuses), then pop her in her cot. she has a quick chat with Ewan the sheep and then falls to sleep for god knows how long (anything from 2 to 9 hours this last week).

oh. she's just done a really loud poo. first one in 5 days. I may be some time.

Woolybob Wed 23-Jan-13 11:09:16

Our 'routine':
8am baby awake for day (I've usually got up and showered before this), feed, dress and activity of 'watch mummy eat breakfast/put washing on/load dishwasher etc then mess on play mat
10am either leave for morning group at children's centre or other activity in which case dd naps in car seat on way or if staying in feed/rock/white noise to sleep in crib (usually get about 40mins grace!).
12.30/1pm After both had lunch go out for walk with pram, either to local shops or park during which dd again naps about 40mins.
3pm At some point in afternoon when in good mood do baby massage
4.30/5pm Attempt 3rd nap, not always successful sometimes in crib with curtains drawn and white noise blaring and sometimes in sling/on lap!
6.30/7pm bath/final feed/bed, resettle once or twice then usually asleep around 8pm
8pm to 8am anything between 2 and 8 night wakings/feeds at the moment!

So not great sleepwise but prob better than some and usually liveable with! wink

CookieMonster88 Wed 23-Jan-13 11:26:45

Our days:

8/9am: get up, bath, dress and feed
Mid-morning: leave for activity or play time
(Normally a nap around 11am for an hour)
Afternoon of playing, singing etc, with a nap around 2pm for 45 mins and again about 5pm for anywhere between 15mins and 2hrs.

Evening of Daddy time, watching us cook etc, change into sleeping bag at 9pm, feed to sleep then up into Moses basket at 10pm.

Feeds happen at random times in the day, no routine to those at all!

Londonmrss Wed 23-Jan-13 11:33:01

with regards to routine I do think it's best to be baby led. mine naturally fell into a routine which I was comfortable with, then the feeding crisis changed it and she found a new routine. but if you tried to totally schedule feeds and naps for them, surely you would be completely ignoring their needs?

FirstTimeForEverything Wed 23-Jan-13 11:43:19

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BoraBora Wed 23-Jan-13 12:04:15

Totally baby-led here (God I was pleased to discover that this was a thing, and not me just being lazy), to the point that I'm struggling to compile this. The only things that seem to happen frequently.

8:00 - wake, feed, chatting to daddy.
9:00 - up, change nappy. More chatting whilst on bed or under gym whilst I do a bit of house work and get dressed.
9:30 or 10:00 ish - Nap
10:45 or 11:00 ish - Feed, nappy change
11:30 - we go out/ play. May have another nap if we go out and in the sling/buggy
13:00 - feed, nappy change. Playing and chatting.

This is where it all gets a bit hazy. Can then be asleep all afternoon, or can be awake all afternoon. Depends on what mood she's in, where we are, what we've done in the morning, etc. Either way, she'll eat about every 2 hours. Can still be colicky-nightmare child between 17:00 and 19:30, but is improving every week.

18:00 - Daddy time whilst mummy has bath.
18:30 - Sometimes she gets in the bath with me, about every other day. This is all daddy time. They play, listen to music, generally hang out.
20:00 we eat dinner. She's normally asleep on one of us by now. Sometimes she'll go down in her basket which is next to us. If she's being fussy, one of us will hold her and we take turns to eat.
22:00 Daddy does final nappy change whilst I get ready for bed. Then I take her to bed with me and we feed to sleep. Daddy joins us after he's tidied the kitchen.

We bed share and I couldn't really tell you how often she wakes in the night as she doesn't cry, and we feed half asleep. Works for us!

Orenishii Wed 23-Jan-13 12:25:27

Yes, very pleased baby led is a thing - I often feel quite lazy too, or a bit helpless/anxious/wondering what to do next.

DH can often be working from 7am until 9pm so I'm on my own a lot. Sometimes he has no clients in the middle of the day and so will come back home, other days he won't leave until 11am/12 so it's not so bad.

Feel very sick and head achey since I woke up. Please don't be the start of something.

BoraBora Wed 23-Jan-13 12:38:10

Poor Oren sad. Rubbish you're on your own so much! Seriously, we should meet up for coffee once the snow's gone and introduce our ethnically similar babies!

Orenishii Wed 23-Jan-13 12:43:36

Bora yes definitely!

Hahaha I told my mum, in front of DH, that I would be getting DS an ethnic doll as I didn't want him thinking white is the default, and DH was all: hmm Those dolls are darker than I am, sweet cheeks!

orenishii are you getting enough water? sometimes i feel like that then realise that i havent had a drink for hours.

we're baby led too- couldnt tell you when she feeds cos it changes all the time. generally:
up at 8/9ish. feeds, chat in bed for a while. put clothes on.
downstairs at 10/11ish depending on how lazy we are being how warm it is downstairs (crap heating system here), and wether we are doing something.
feeds generally about 11.30.. naps for a bit.
playtime, feed nappy etc.
1.30/2ish, sleeps for a good 3/4/5 hours depending on how she feels. if she doesnt go to sleep by this time starts getting very crabby.
wakes up, feed/nappy/playtime/chats with whoever is around (we are usually out in aftetnoons/evenings).
bedtime at 10pm. i take her upstairs, put clean babygro, nappy on. feed with dim light and total silence. loosely swaddle and into moses basket with dummy/thumb. (her thumb). at this point i turn the light off and either go downstairs or go to bed myself. generally she goes straight to sleep all night, but if she stirs i put her dummy back in. however shes getting pretty good at finding and sucking her thumb, so doesnt really need my help.

all naps in day are either in gym or chair with some help from our dummy friend! with general noise like tv/hoover/washing machine/conversation in background.

i also have a very easy baby. i usually have a bath after one of her feeds in the evening when dp is home to wind/play. she also has started sleeping through the night... oddly this has coincided with the new skill of sucking her thumb. i am in denial that sleep regression is a real thing grin

Elpis Wed 23-Jan-13 13:53:18

Our routine... Such as it is...

Up 7.45, feed both DCs. Dress DD, prepare her breakfast, change DS into day clothes. Supervise breakfast, brush her teeth. If I'm taking her to preschool I shower and dress while she's eating. Otherwise empty dishwasher.

8.35 DD off to preschool, either with me on bus and DS in BabyBjorn or with DH. Back by 9.20. Feed DS, chat, nap, perhaps read paper on iPad. Nap if I get chance

11.15 Get DS ready to pick up DD. Return with her by 12.30, unless I need to do some shopping or we go to playground on way back. Make DD's lunch. Feed.

1.30 Snakes and ladders, Lego, etc etc. DS on playmat. At some point I cave and let DD have XBox dancing or Jungle Book. Struggle to stay awake. Snack for DD.

5-6.15 start cooking dinner. DD plays in kitchen, DS in bouncer. DH returns from work, sets up office on kitchen table.

7:15 Dinner.

8 When toys put away and table cleared, DD is allowed iPad time (Angelina, Ben and Holly, Nigellissima). Collapse on sofa. Watch Daily Show with Jon Stewart with DH. Play with DS.

9 Bedtime. Bath every other day - every day for DS since ghastly perianal abscess. DD into pyjamas, DS into sleepsuit. Attempt to moisturise, floss etc while DH chats to DD. Up to bed. Quick feed and story of her choice for DD, then goodnight. Feed DS, into cot.

10.15 Read, send emails, Facebook, Twitter, MN. Should try to sleep earlier but usually have burst of energy at this time. When DS wakes around 1am I take him into bed for feed. Generally wakes about three times.

This is without French classes, play dates, medical stuff, lunches with friends etc... Can hardly believe how organised and regimented I am these days.

Elpis Wed 23-Jan-13 14:07:32


I am so effing sadly organised that all the week's dinners are listed on a whiteboard in the kitchen, with expiry dates for stuff that needs eating.

Olivess Wed 23-Jan-13 15:06:31

Ooh this is interesting! Our routine is this:
8.30am wake up, play in bed, feed, change etc
10/10.30 first nap of day usually in pram as I'm on my way out somewhere or in my arms still in bed if I'm having a lazy day.
11am feed and play - at baby group etc...
12.30/1 sleep in pram sometimes for an hour or sometimes 2 hours
2ish feed and play etc...
4-5 sleep on me whilst I watch some tv and have a cup of tea.
5-7ish feed, play and i get dinner sorted then up to bed. She is usually settled after a last feed by 8ish.
Then I go downstairs to wash up, tidy kitchen and do a bit of knitting.
DD wakes anywhere from 3 to 10 times between 8pm and 8 am. She comes into bed with me after her last feed of the night at 5ish.
This is very approximate though as it depends on what we're doing in the day. She generally has 3 naps though with a longer one at lunchtime. She is always rocked/fed/walked to sleep.

Elpis Wed 23-Jan-13 15:29:07

Londonmrss - Both DCs had BCG jab. DS' injection site didn't really blister, though you can see the scar two months later. I wouldn't worry about it!

Orenishii Wed 23-Jan-13 16:01:26

mickey you're probably right about the water! Thanks for the reminder smile

All these "routines" are very interesting and reassuring - I love that we're mostly doing baby led and it's mostly making us secretly feel lazy, hahaha!

London I had the BCG done as a baby and I have an "innie" scar; most people that had it done at the standard later age seem to have an "outie".

squidkid Wed 23-Jan-13 16:22:35

Ahhhh! She just rolled over. From on her front. Laughed about it very happily.

Exciting times smile

hufflepuffle Wed 23-Jan-13 16:40:02

Ooh. Lots to read. Will catch up in while.

Warning. Self obsessed post alert.

I feel vindicated. Well maybe that's the wrong word. Had private lactation consultant visit today. DS has posterior tongue tie and lip tie (who knew latter even existed?) He can clearly suck well due to massive weight but he is chomping down to 'hold on'. I also have 360 degree crack on sore side. This has probably been here all along and never healed. I though it was anatomical.......

I say vindicated is wrong word cos I don't feel pleased that this is the case but I truly had just come to the conclusion that I was crap at BF and how the hell could I still hav pain after 3 months?!

Plan is new feeding position, saline rinse after every feed and try to solve cracks. There are no surgeons in NI who recognise and treat anyhow so would have to travel.


On other news. DS height is now outside any centiles at 69cm. Weight 91st at 16lb13. HV very helpful on weaning info and v supportive of 6 month target. Advice good on needing iron after 6 months which may be issue if BLW. Could not comment on BLW much as their training is soft foods but secretly supportive and suggested I go online to sites like mumsnet for BLW support!

My lovely boy cried whole time lactation consultant here except when she poked about on his mouth when he smiled and laughed!!!!


Olivess Wed 23-Jan-13 16:40:22

It's reassuring that most of us have to rock/wear/feed our babies to sleep in the day - no self settling going on here. angelico the website you linked about sleep last night was really interesting but it did panic me a bit as we are nowhere near being able to put DD down awake yet. Still it gave some good ideas though.

squid we are close to rolls here. Today at Pilates DD lay on a rug and managed to turn herself round 180 degrees. Think she was trying to roll but instead could only wiggle her bottom around. Still it's more movement than we've ever had before. Love how she can do new things nearly everyday.

My favourite part of the day - sleepy cuddles and the great British bake off on demand. And a cup of tea. And a biscuit or three.

Olivess Wed 23-Jan-13 16:50:20

There's a very attractive man on British bake off - the comc relief one. It was the programme from last night, I don't know who he is but I fancy him a lot.

huffle at least you know what the issue has been...and you're not crap at breast feeding!

Smorgs Wed 23-Jan-13 16:58:12

Hello hello! Sorry been staying offline for a bit for various reasons. Last week was tough, DH was working abroad so I was on my own. Wow. Single parent respect. He came back with a huge suitcase of clothes from a lovely friend with two boys. There were about 40 vest tops alone. I don't think I'll have to buy anything for him again until he's 2. I feel so grateful to people for lending us so much, it has saved us heaps of money. All I have bought is a cot and changing table (Ikea Gulliver - can recommend. The mattress is standard size I think? I got all my sheets in the sale at La Redoute) and a few bits of clothes. I have started a baby massage class and Smorglet loved it (after disgracing himself by throwing up on the class leader's sofa blush) and going to a mum and toddlers group - anyone else get the twitchy eye thing when you think of all the germs around with all these other kids? I always thought I would be one of those mums who thinks germs are good for immunity and throws their child in with the rest of them, but I am getting a bit PFB I think. Had second jabs today, he was very brave and hardly cried, but next month's are the same as the first ones and a bit more hurty. He is 61cm and 5 1/2 kg - can anyone tell me what centiles he is on in the UK please?

Only had time for a quick scan of the thread so:
Routine: he runs almost like clockwork on a three hour routine, feeds every three hours (I can almost set my watch by it), then some activity and then naps for 45 mins. He's up around 5am at the moment and then goes back to sleep until about 8am (meanwhile mummy is awake for the day) then usually we go off for massage, playgroup, church mums group (I'm not massively Christian but its a fun group of ladies who do craft activities or something similar). Then I try and cluster some feeds from about 6ish, bath when DH gets home at 7-7.30pm then bed at 8-8.30pm. Getting him to sleep involved sitting bouncing him on the Swiss ball. Our attempts at weaning him off this have failed! It's hell on your back.
School: if we stay in France he will go through the French system. I don't want to pay for him to go to the Lycee International, although I quite like the idea of the international baccalaureate but this is waaay off. However, who knows where we will be. Could be Germany, Spain.... India?! If we are in the UK then it will be state. I was privately educated from 4-18 and one of those schools was a complete disaster, the others were great. Every school is different, as is every child. I'm a firm believer in doing what is right for you and your family and not feeling bad if it's not 'right' by other people. I always felt slightly guilty going to private schools with so much on offer when I'm not particularly gifted or talented whereas DH was at state school and worked his socks off all the way through to get good results and would have loved to have had the opportunities I had (and did not appreciate at the time). But, that said I do understand why my parents sent me to boarding school - they both worked long and unpredictable hours and I was the only child at home when I was growing up so got bored a lot. Anyway I'm rambling....
Montessori - my sisters kids were at a Montessori nursery in Oz but she has put them into mainstream now. This is just one example of course, but she found her son was very behind in maths when he changed school. The Montessori ethos of putting all the children into one room and letting them choose what they want to do meant that he had avoided doing any of the maths stuff for ages. I will say that both her boys are VERY strong minded and know exactly what they want (and do not want) to do! Knowing my sister and her husband though this could well be the genes.....

Got to take Smorglet for an X-ray to have his hips checked, apparently its routine here...

Smorgs Wed 23-Jan-13 17:02:09

Great news huffle at least you know what the problem is. I hope it gets easier from now!

Squid we had rolls from front to back today too! Of course when I tried to film it for Daddy he stopped and started crying.

Elpis Wed 23-Jan-13 17:16:04

Smorgs - how many weeks is he? Then could tell you centile.

So so so tired. Volunteered at DD's preschool this morning. Now I have no energy whatsoever. Don't drink because of migraine meds and caffeine (sometimes even decaf) seems to trigger minor migraines. Or is it just sleep deprivation? Oh for a day off from entertaining DD. I know DH works very hard but I wish he'd offer. Now have to cook for four as friend coming round.

Sorry. I'm not much fun today. Wantwine

hufflepuffle Wed 23-Jan-13 17:30:01

Quick skim read

Smorgs I hav red book in hand but baby too so but tricky to plot. Assuming DS is also 14 weeks that is 25th centile for each.

I'll look better later when not holding sleeping baby.

(delighted to have sleeping baby on me! )

smileyhappymummy Wed 23-Jan-13 17:38:34

elpis sending hugs and painkilling thoughts. You sound like you've achieved loads today. - volunteering at preschool and entertaining so no wonder you're wiped out. I know what you mean about wanting a day off, just one would help wouldn't it? Even an hour off helps me (and my lovely dh is great for this - will take the children and send me off with a nice pot of tea, chocolate and a good book. Right now I would love just one night of proper sleep.
Had a lovely day today despite knackeredness. And a stranger in a coffee shop came up to me and said she thought I was a brilliant mummy with dd - made my day. Also went to a music group - baby loved it and some nice people there for me to chat to as well. Now dd1 has a friend home from school for tea and I've made buns with them - am having a day where I feel like a good mummy as opposed to the night where I felt like a rubbish mummy.
Routine here doesn't really exist. Basically roughly a 3 hour cycle of eat, play, sleep until about 5ish when she feeds on and off for ages. We were giving her a bath every evening but she's started to get really dry sore skin (me and dh both have eczema) so may have to reduce that. But then how will we get all the puke / poo off? Still puking loads every day, wish that would stop.....
My other major achievement today has been going to the toilet without waking dd in her sling. Oh, the glamour....

smileyhappymummy Wed 23-Jan-13 17:40:09

huffle really pleased you have an answer to all the bf problems. You are amazing to have managed so brilliantly!

Smorgs Wed 23-Jan-13 17:51:54

Thanks elpis and huffle he is 13 weeks today.

Elpis Not surprised you are tired, you're superwoman! I often get a headache before I come down with a cold? And yes I would love a whole day off, without having to express boobs either. Sending you an alcohol free wine

smiley How lovely of someone to say that! You sound like a great mummy and you are amazing for coping with being back at work and a wakey baby. Have you tried Oilatum junior? I know people with eczema who swear by the adult version and I noticed the other day they do the junior one. Mine pukes loads still too, sometimes an hour after feeding. Both of us smell perpetually of puke.

Orenishii Wed 23-Jan-13 18:19:08

I love that some babies are moving, rolling, rotating now...I live in fear and hope of Q rolling.

smileyhappymummy Wed 23-Jan-13 18:48:19

She rolled over! Front to back!

hufflepuffle Wed 23-Jan-13 18:53:57

Smorgs for weight that is between 9th and 25th. 25th for height. I don't really know how to translate that! Assuming that as they are both 25 ish then they are equivalent and ok, ie, slightly smaller height but weight in proportion?? Monster baby here is not the best comparison so I cannot tell you what it means! Plenty of normal baby mummies here to tell you!!


hufflepuffle Wed 23-Jan-13 18:58:48

Head melt at all your day shapes (see, not routines!) I will read another day when less exhausted!! Our day usually starts about 8.30 and night begins with bath at 8.30. Everything else in between is now totally baby led as I cannot predict at all!!

Elpis. I yearn to be so organised. That is my Nirvana. Sigh.

Yay for rolling babies!

That is all I can manage.

londonlivvy Wed 23-Jan-13 19:04:16

Smorgs. I make it that your DS is just above 9th percentile for weight and at 50th for height at three months.

Sorry not much time for posting everyone, DD has been super challenging and I'm at my parents too. I unfortunately mistakenly ate some ice cream at a lunch party my parents gave (it was put on my plate and I completely forgot my dairy free regime) and since then she has been in reflux and windy hell. Sigh. I sobbed in exhaustion on my mother this morning and she very kindly took her off my hands for a few hours so I could sleep. Very very decent of her as my mum has cardio myopathy, ME, Bell's palsy and so doesn't have much spare mojo.

Loving all the routines. The thing I notice most (and am very jealous of ) is the dad time. I'm lucky if he chats to her for ten minutes in the morning. He does usually do the 1030 feed but not this week cos he's at home for his exams and we are down here. I am feeling gloomy about parenting and gloomy about our relationship. We barely see each other. He sleeps in another room so that he has mojo for uni and work. So I see him for ten mins in the morning and then about an hour in the evening between him getting home from work at 730ish and me going to bed at 830ish. I know it's just a phase and parenting should get easier but it's cack right now. Cack. And when he finishes his exams (tonight) this means that uni starts again next week so he won't even be home two nights a week. As you say, smorgs, big respect to all the single parents out there. I feel like a single parent much of the time, though at least I don't have to worry about paying the mortgage.

hufflepuffle Wed 23-Jan-13 19:16:04

Scrap that Smorgs, 50th for height. Those little charts are much trickier than they look. Apologies.

hufflepuffle Wed 23-Jan-13 19:17:58

As advised by Londonlivvy who is obviously more awake than me this evening..........

Hello Livvy, nice to see you, cannot believe the rapid effect of ice cream.......

WantAnOrange Wed 23-Jan-13 19:28:38

London that sucks sad. When DS was a baby, DH and I werent living together, we were both studying and he was working all weekend too. Every minute together was precious! It does pass though. Now we see far to much of each other!

I am completely shocked at DS's behaviour today. My brother was here and DS was watching TV. He snapped at us that he couldn't hear it, so I reminded him about attitude which is usually the end of it but he carried on being rude, so I said it was time to get ready for bed anyway, let's go on up. He point blank refused, shouted NO! and wouldnt budge off the sofa. I turned off the TV and he tried to turn it back on! He then growled at me hmm then burst into tears. I'm embarassed to say that I handled it really badly, I was so suprised that I laughed which I think embarrased him in front of my brother and made things worse. I was just so so suprised, he has never (apart from the odd toddler temper tantrum) deliberately said no to me before like that.

I had DD weighed today out of curiousity and its a good thing I did. She has stayed on the 9th centile since birth but in the last 2 weeks has dropped to the 2nd. HV said not to worry but to bring her back next week and keep and eye on it. What will they suggest if she keeps dropping?

squidkid Wed 23-Jan-13 19:33:54

just quickly:
Been to the doctors - made a routine appt a couple of weeks ago re: painful sex. Hadn't met the doctor before but she was very very nice and did an examination (which hurt) and said everything looked absolutely fine - no prolapse, no scarring. So obviously it can take a while for things to get comfortable again - I just wanted to check there was nothing amiss, particularly with all the running I've been doing...

She did do some swabs but I doubt they'll turn anything up.

Very reassuring - I don't mind waiting, I was just fretting a bit - sharing with you guys in case it's helpful/relevant to anyone.

(She was ever so nice and said I was a model mum with bf and exercise and other things - I went a bit red and said I was fortunate enough to have a normal delivery and easygoing baby. Still doctors often aren't particularly nice and I think a lot of them don't realise how much people can take a boost from nice things they say (I know I always try to chuck in helpful and encouraging comments when appropriate.))

Orenishii Wed 23-Jan-13 19:40:27

livvy i can sympathise about how much you see your DH. Mine frequently leaves for 7am clients and sometimes doesn't get back until 9 or 10pm. Like yours he frequently sleeps in the spare bed, and it can be very hard.

But. While it's not the life I would necessarily have chosen, I remind myself that he's happy...he was MISERABLE before. Yes, a DH coming home for 6.30 with a regular salary has many benefits but we're working towards a better life, and life would have been stunted before...with a financial and fulfilment ceiling. Your DH's schedule sounds rough, it can't be easy on either of you...but it won't be like this forever, and you're both contributing and working towards something in the long run.

Londonmrss Wed 23-Jan-13 19:52:00

livvy I can also sympathise. my husband works a lot and so we don't have much time right. it's hard not to become resentful when he complains of being tired (yeah, because I'm not tired at all) so have to keep reminding myself that I get the privilege of looking after our baby and this phase will pass.

squid that is reassuring- my bits are still feeling sore. I think that's part of the reason my sex drive has gone walkabout. well that plus the fact that given a choice between sex and sleep, I would always prefer sleep at the mo.

all you with more than one child- you are all superwomen and you amaze me. truly.

Smorgs Wed 23-Jan-13 19:58:16

Thanks livvy and huffle I thought he was a skinny minny. Out of interest, would they raise concerns about being on 9th percentile for weight in the UK? We saw the paediatrician today and he didn't say anything about his weight and height.
livvy that does sound really tough, but as orenishii says, when it's all over he might well be much happier. Is there one thing he can do with her every day that's just their special time? Like bathtime or massage or a story/song? I'm terrible at going to bed early and usually fall asleep on DH on the sofa then slope off to bed about 10.30pm, but that still kind of feels like our special time.
And yes, single parenting is much more than just looking after the baby by yourself. Can't imagine doing it with all the stress of paying bills/organising life without someone else there.

After saying my baby runs like clockwork he had a mahoosive nap this afternoon after his jabs and I can hear a battle going on between him and DH who is trying to put him to sleep in the bedroom... think I might be in for a long night.

squidkid Wed 23-Jan-13 20:05:15

smorgs It's not concerning babies being any particular weight. It can be concerning if they don't follow a particular trend, ie if they were born on the 75th percentile and drop to the 9th over time. Growth charts can only be interpreted with a few readings - hope that helps xx

(9th centile baby here too! healthy as you like)

smile4me Wed 23-Jan-13 20:06:18

No good news on the sleep front here either, although at least we didn't wake up crying last night, just singing! She sucked her thumb noisily for about half an hour at which point I gave up and fed her. and then still didn't get back to sleep! grrrrrrr And we now start the day at 5am. Still could be worse (is it babyfunch that starts at 4am every day?)

But on a plus note this morning DD has discovered she has knees and feet! And is getting the rolling pretty fine tuned, although still can't get the shoulder under to get right round. It's really weird as she started rolling on her side at about 8 weeks, then stopped and mastered the other side, then stopped and now suddenly going all the way. Babies are weird critters grin

Hmmmm so is feeding 10 times a day not normal then? DD has always done that, just increases further around growth spurts.

squid we have a similar approach to day naps.... arrange computer/books and baby sleeps on me for however long she decides smile

Angelico DD has also got uneven thigh creases... has been checked by paedeatrician at 5 weeks but crappy HV wants me to take her to GP to check cos the paed check's not written in my book! I might just lie and says there's a history of hip dysplasia in my family to get her scanned and that be the end of it. I genuinely do have a dodgy hip so not entirely untrue!

huffle ouch! No wonder you were so sore. Crikey you are one tough bird! grin

smiley what a lovely comment for someone to make! You sound like you are doing a great job and coping with being back at work. My DD still spewing heaps... I can cope with the fresh stuff, but the really nasty acidy stuff makes me want to spew too! I've been coping with lots of towells and bibs, but that's all going to go out the window when she starts crawling i guess (i'm under no illusion it's going to improve magically when she gets upright).

londonlivvy Wed 23-Jan-13 20:58:37

Smorgs. How much did DS weigh when he was born? I can then tell you his original percentile.

Smorgs Wed 23-Jan-13 21:23:45

Ooh ooh would you mind livvy, he was 2.990kg or 6lbs 9oz and 51cms.

Thanks squid, I'm not worried really just interested to hear what would happen if we were back home. The French seem to be much smaller so he is seen as normal whereas back home he would definitely be on the small side.

Smorgs Wed 23-Jan-13 21:25:25

Just noticed the time, you're probably asleep livvy. Anyone else? The suspense is killing me!

Beccus Wed 23-Jan-13 21:31:40

wantan - that sort of thing with your ds makes my mind boggle - i would have no idea how to handle that sort of situation. I love that our babies are currently too young to 'manipulate' us. I have no idea how to discipline them/manage that sort of behaviour.

Smiley, can't believe u r back at work while getting so little sleep.

elpis, your day sounds exhausting, too.

huffle, thank god u finally have a diagnosis for all the probs u have been having. U r such a trooper to have made it this far, well done!

smorgs, nice to c u back.

livvy, hope u can get a cuddle from your dp - mine works constantly (business work/rennovating our flat), so the only time we really spend together is meals and bed. A cuddle is power quality time, i find.

strawberry marks - babybeccus has one on her forehead - not planning to do anythiung about it - understand they fade and she can style her hair so it's covered if she wants to when she is older.

routines - she gets up anywhere between 6 and 930 and then we feed, change, play and try to get her back to sleep after 90 mins throughout the day. She is just a little 'un, so i usually offer her feeds every 2 to 2 and a half hrs or so, or if she's upset and i can't figure out why...or if she is making a fuss when i am out. If we go out, she'll nap in pram/sling, if we r at home, i try to get her to self settle during the day. I feel like a mean mummy, too, squid, as she always cries when i put her down, but she gets so cranky and clingly if she does not get her naps. We try to get her down for the nite anytime from 7, but if she is hungry she will walke up and sometimes doesn't go down until 10pm. She tends to sleep 9-12 hrs. I normally feed her to sleep, but want to try and stop this - totally agree with whoever said feeding to sleep is either fine or the worse thing u can do! So confusing - i guess i wont be feeding her to sleep forever, so would like her to be able to self settle at nite....but can't be arsed with this after 9pm - we just do what works when it gets late.

Self settling - thank u to whoever provided the link to twitter and to angelico for her link. We started trying this a while ago (after reading baby whisperer) and she had such a melt down, i decided i would just try it once a week and continue to bounce her to sleep on my tummy/feed her to sleep/get her to drop off in sling. It became less traumatic over time and when she managed it, i decided to try once a day and now i basically try and get her to self settle all the time, unless we r out and i will use any tactic, eg rock in pram, feed to sleep, etc. She still always cries when i put her down, but calms down with shhing and patting and staying with, and doesn't usually need to be picked up. She stops crying after 5-10 mins and she will be asleep in 10-15. Would never leave her to cry, but did wonder if crying while i am with her was bad - asked hv who said as long as she is not crying so hard she vomits, it's ok.....she has never cried and vomitted, even after 8 week jabs which was the worst crying i have seen. Am trying not to swaddle, but will use in desperate situations, eg if she is overtired. She will nap for 30-45 mins 3-4 times in day usually. I like self settling - often when we bouced/rocked/fed her to sleep and transferred her to bed she would wake up after 10 mins or so. Self settling is a bit of a mission as u have to get through the crying, but at least she usually gets a proper nap.

Today was a crap sleep day - she got up at 815, she got tired around 945, but there was no point putting her down as we had to leave for mummy and baby yoga at 1015. Suprisingly, there was no overtired melt down at mummy and baby yoga, but no sleeping apart from 10 mins in sling. Struggled big time to get her to sleep this arvo when we got home - figured it would be too hard to self settle due to lack of sleep, so tried feeding her off to sleep and she woke after 10 mins, tried self settling, same thing and eventually got her to self settle thx to swaddling. It's so exciting some babies are rolling, but i will be sad to have to stop swaddling in emergencies when we get rolling action.

Goodness, mammoth, rambling post!!

Londonmrss Wed 23-Jan-13 21:36:08

smorgs assuming he was born at 40 week's, I think it puts him on about the 9th to begin with... see here [ http://www.rcpch.ac.uk/child-health/research-projects/uk-who-growth-charts-early-years/uk-who-0-4-years-growth-charts-initi]

Londonmrss Wed 23-Jan-13 21:38:41

why did auto correct put that apostrophe in weeks? annoying.

Smorgs Wed 23-Jan-13 22:23:10

Thanks London!

lisbethsopposite Wed 23-Jan-13 23:15:24

Routine confused.
Will try harder. Aim for 3-4hr blocks.Usually skeways by lunch but will start again.
London my DH who is mostly a rebbon says babies have no personality and do nothing . Looks on babyhood as something to be gotten through. Will take baby in same spirit as doing dishes . Also works for US and is great with 2yr old. It doesn't come easy to men. I think baby has to grow on them. You will get your mojo back, hang in there.

lisbethsopposite Wed 23-Jan-13 23:20:20

FB who is who? I love guessing

Katla Wed 23-Jan-13 23:41:14

9 pages?! How did I get so far behind. I've used all my time catching up so no time to post (Erin asleep since 9pm but who knows when she'll be up again) Will try and post tomorrow. We back on the disturbed nights too - started just awake a 4am, but she's been adding in a 1am last two nights, and an early rise (for me) at 7am too. Sleep, precious sleep.

Zara1984 Thu 24-Jan-13 03:18:12

Did I just start weaning my baby?! I was acting a peach just now and he was staring at it, drooling. When I had finished there was still lots of flesh on it - so I held it to his mouth and he started licking and sucking the flesh! And grinned afterwards. <bad mummy emoticon> it's ok if it's a once off, right......?

Routine - up at 6, feed and play. Sleep at about 8.30. Next feed at about 9.30. Bit more play and an hours nap. Feed at 1230ish, then he goes down for about 2 hours or naps in the pram with blackput cover on if we're out. Feed at 3.30. Play and try to get in another nap/walk. Bath-bottle-bed routine starts at about 5.45, he's usually asleep by 7pm. On good nights he'll sleep through, otherwise he can wake at about 2am for a feed, but quickly goes back to sleep,afterwards.

hufflepuffle Thu 24-Jan-13 03:33:53

Zara you have a perfect routine indeed. Can you come teach my baby when you come home?? Hav you any thoughts on how change in time zone will affect things?

Funny on the peach! That boyo knows the score!! I'd be careful tho, rather acidic foodstuff! Certainly HV said yesterday if are weaning at 17 weeks there are so many things to avoid.

Cautionary tale for you all while I remember. ......
Over years I have probably seen at least 5 people whose tiny baby has poked them in eye with flailing hands. V v v sore watering eye. What had happened is sharp edges on tiny nails has caught cornea and caused a sudden deep wound. As cornea has open nerve endings this is intensely painful and needs mostly lubrication treatment while it heals. Generally not serious but can lead to recurrent corneal erosion in spot. Is also hideously painful at time.

I am so afraid of happening to me or DH!! Now interestingly my memory only thinks of daddies with this problem coming in. Perhaps mummies have faster eye closing reactions! Or perhaps daddies are often nobbers......

I thought it was worth making you all wary!

Zara1984 Thu 24-Jan-13 04:30:03

LOL huffle my routine isn't that perfect! Afternoon nap has failed and he's grizzling in his bouncer while I jiggle with my foot - have been trying to get him to sleep for the past hour as he's very tired. The routine mostly works though. It's 5.30pm here - as soon as DH gets in, it's his turn to do bath and bed <evil laugh>

All bets are off as to what happens when we get back to Ireland... May god have mercy on me....

Zara1984 Thu 24-Jan-13 04:32:21

ARGH about that baby eye-poke injury! That's awful! Reminds me of when I was getting eyelash extensions put in for my wedding. While I was lying there, I overhear one of the staff talking to a woman who had tripped while using and eyelash curler and pulled ALL HER EYELASHES OUT in one go! confused

lisbethsopposite Thu 24-Jan-13 07:53:12

Right. I have to admire his tenacity/Houdini skills. He can now get hands out of swaddle in about 2mins.
I've learnt to sleep with my arm across him holding his hands down !
He keeps trying to scratch dry skin on face.
Predictive text on kindle is the weirdest.

lisbethsopposite Thu 24-Jan-13 07:56:58

thanks for tip huffle. Flailing arms here so I'll be extra careful- sounds awful. My glasses might be a good thing, like baby safety goggles.

crazypaving Thu 24-Jan-13 08:06:33

zara my dh once accidentally slammed a door whilst I was using eyelash curlers. I didn't have many left after I jumped sad that hurt like you would not believe!

hufflepuffle Thu 24-Jan-13 08:28:39

Yes Lisbeth, specs r great protection! Tho DS has already managed to grab mine off multi times! If I had a quid got every pair of glasses I've had brought in damaged by a baby or toddler I could take a much longer maternity leave!!! So that's the other warning for the day peeps, babies can somehow damage glasses. Where do they get the strength??!

hufflepuffle Thu 24-Jan-13 08:32:12

Well that was a but better. Nightmare to get to sleep. Woke for feed at 3. Several other wakes but all quietened by Ewan the sheep. Up at 7.30 for feed and dirty nappy. This really is like a repeat cycle back to about 7 weeks. Hoping that this is the throws of 4 month sleep regression and I'm not going to get a repeat performance in few weeks.

I at least feel slightly more human today. DS still seems to be grumpy.

Plan to go to rhythm and rhyme group in library today. HV brought us free books from book start yesterday! Well chuffed!!

hufflepuffle Thu 24-Jan-13 08:43:40

Had a dawning flashbulb moment last night regarding weaning. I will not really be doing it. DH will. We have talked about BLW before but had a good chat last night and the thought frightens him too much. He is also very excited about preparing various tasty mushy foods! He is the cook in our home anyway. I have to give him the lead on this as he is going to be the primary parent.

DH is a major worrier and I truly don't think he would cope well with all the potential gagging and choking!

This is the start of me relinquishing mummy control! sad

Hoping it will be ok to give DS food to try BLW style at same time? Just a little bit?

WantAnOrange Thu 24-Jan-13 08:55:01

Huffle it will be fine however you choose to do it. It might be wise to explain to DH that babies gag on pureed food at first too though, it's a normal part of learning how to chew and swallow and that gagging is not the same as choking. Gagging means your baby is coping with it and learning how to shift food thats gone the wrong way, which is kind of the opposite of choking. Also chewing food develops the muscles in a babies mouth which is needed for their speech and language development, babies who are not allowed to eat proper solid foods can develop language delays. He could also do a baby aid course, I felt so much more confident after I had done mine.

crazypaving Thu 24-Jan-13 08:59:37

huffle I think general advice is to offer finger foods alongside puree from quite early on anyway. don't fret pet, you're not relinquishing control, just finding your way as parents. never easy but even harder when you're the one out of the home. once weaning starts you'll be pretty pleased dh is taking the brunt of it grin

hufflepuffle Thu 24-Jan-13 09:00:21

Yeah. Baby aid might be good idea. I can see his mind whirring in a 'what have I let myself in for?????' way!! Mentions of DMIL helping out are becoming more frequent. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

DS gags really well! Furious feeder coughs, gags, hiccups and even sneezes while feeding And never loses a drop of milk in process!! I think he'd be a perfect baby for BLW due to this! Well hopefully we can combine a bit of both.


crazypaving Thu 24-Jan-13 09:05:44

and routine??? seriously! no hope here. how can we get routine when

a. some days he feeds 4 times in 24hrs, and other days more like 10?
b. I have a toddler!!

I have no idea what happens in his day. he feeds when he accepts the boob and he sleeps when he's narky and it's the only thing I haven't tried yet to pacify him. all daytime sleeps in Moby. down for the night at 7p.m.ish, up for the day anytime from 3.30am, which is seriously shit.

last night was particularly bad. both boys awake 3.30-5.30. went into ds1's room at 7 to get him up and had a very sleepy 'where's my dummy?' with a big sad tired face sad poor little thing. but seriously last night he was singing loudly, giving himself wild rounds of applause and cheering. for TWO HOURS. meanwhile ds2 was grinning cheekily at me. by 6 when the alarm goes off and we get up for showers both boys were peacefully snoozing angry angry envy envy

thank goodness for chocolate cornflakes grin

squidkid Thu 24-Jan-13 09:14:10

Another first this morning!! STARING at hands as if they are the most fascinating thing in the world...

BoraBora Thu 24-Jan-13 09:15:40

squid well there we go. Crankiness and super hunger precedes developmental link. N = 1.

BoraBora Thu 24-Jan-13 09:15:57

Leap, not link.

squidkid Thu 24-Jan-13 09:17:06

And rolling on demand now,easily!! So exciting!!!!

Woolybob Thu 24-Jan-13 09:21:14

wantan It's important to remember all the centiles are normal healthy babies but the hv will usually get jittery if they drop 2 centiles and use it to indicate baby not getting enough milk or some other problem.

This happened to me and my hv asked the gp to check her over (although in my case dd had not yet had her 6 week check which is all the gp basically did - I think just to check no heart murmur etc) He also ref us to be checked by a paediatrian but I think that's a bit overkill. Anyway hv also told to give formula top up, was reluctant to do this so saw bf support and did switch feeding, breast compressions, pumping after feeds and taking fenugreek! Did also start giving formula after gp and paeds advised.

Anyway in my case weight came back up pretty promptly, I'm still a little bit convinced it was just partly catch down growth and partly her recovering from the norovirus. Luckily the formula top up hasn't interfered with bf the rest of the time!

More than likely your lo will just start following the 2nd centile instead and its a bit of catch down growth so don't worry too much (easier said than done I know!)

Woolybob Thu 24-Jan-13 09:23:00

squid dd has been doing that the last few days as well, also clasping hands and pulling on her fingers, so cute although my bro said it made her look like a mini Mr burns wink....excellent....

DS has not had a nap all day! I've given him lots of opportunities. A couple of times he fell asleep but woke up a few minutes later. He woke at 7:30am (normal), it is now 6:15pm. He's so tired - grumpy and red-eyed, but won't go, not even when we went out in the sling.
He's feeding now, and I think he could fall asleep on me, so the question is do I let him nap now, so close to bedtime? Or should I just put him to bed super early and hope he doesn't wake up super early?
The last couple of nights have been a bit unsettled too, after a few weeks of basically sleeping through. He woke 3 times last night. I think he's having a growth spurt, there's one at 12 weeks right? He's 13 weeks.

Crazy that must be so hard, but I have to admit I had a little giggle at your DS1 giving himself a round of applause in the middle of the night grin Has been watching XFactor?!
Sometimes DS smiles and "talks" to me during a night waking and it's so hard because I try not to talk at night, but then I also try to always respond to his "talking". And so hard to resist those smiles!

Squid Bora, isn't their development fascinating? I remember the 6 week growth spurt - he fed like a monster for a couple of days and was really whingey, then suddenly he was like a proper baby rather than a new born, and could do loads more stuff. Hope I get similar rewards this time!

grin @ mini Mr Burns Wooly, excellent indeed!

WantAnOrange Thu 24-Jan-13 09:52:01

Woolybob my biggest concern was that they would try and push me into giving formula when breastmilk is better for them. There's no evidence that my milk supply has dropped. I'm not sure why she has dropped but she is otherwise fine, apart from coming down with a cold yesturday.

crazypaving Thu 24-Jan-13 09:53:12

wooly ds2 does that too! wrings his hands and looks either terribly anxious or totally scheming grin

YompingJo Thu 24-Jan-13 10:19:04

Beccus, your description of how you get your dd off to sleep inspired me to try. In the day, she sleeps in stroller, sling or car seat and if she drops off on me and I transfer her to cot them like your dd she will wake pretty quickly. I have tried to settle her before with limited success and I am awful at tolerating her crying, I feel a physical need to pick her up whenever she cries. I'm realising that this is not all that practical however so I've decided to try to get her self settling once a day. And it worked today! She needed a feed to get her sleepy but then I swaddled her and put her in her cot with white noise and decided to let myself pick her up after 5 mins if she was not settling. But with a combination of patting, hair stroking and shushing, she was dropping off within 5mins.

Thank you, it was your post that made me try it, I don't feel that I've been mean to her or forced her to sleep (she was clearly tired) and I don't feel like I neglected her because I was there comforting her while she settled. I guess this could be described as "assisted self settling"! I'll let you know how long she sleeps for!

hufflepuffle Thu 24-Jan-13 10:28:08

Well done Yomping!! I too was inspired and tried this morning! Caved after 3 mins and am now feeding again..,,,, this is despite half hour baby came off feed!! So I'm going to try again shortly......

Thank u lovely Beccus!

YompingJo Thu 24-Jan-13 10:29:28

I want to add that the 5minute rule was only if she was grizzling. If she started proper crying that escalated then I would pick her up. I have some massive guilt associated with her crying, I don't think it's normal. I will do anything to stop her crying, to comfort her. DH can just hold her while she cries but I can't and when he does I find it really hard as I want to take her and comfort her myself. I feel that any crying is a bad thing and I need to help her. She has a tired grizzle that I recognize now and can manage not to intervene with because it means she is winding down, but other cries I have to act on. I met a friend the other day with a 6 week old and when the 6 week old cried she (friend) didn't seem to mind or get flustered, and she even laughed a bit (not unkindly) at the baby's purple face. Why do I get so very flustered when mini yomping cries? Do I need to try to calm down about this? Help!

(still asleep... 20 mins and counting!)

Smorgs Thu 24-Jan-13 10:39:03

wooly that is hilarious! Smorglet definitely has a 'plotting world domination' kind of look when his hands come together!
squid that's ace Jess is doing it on demand! Mine did it again this morning, but having watched him again I'm pretty sure it was just him losing balance rather than intentionally rolling, but hey. He looked pretty shocked when it happened and we have a tiled floor under the playmat so he kind of bashed his head too blush Cue lots of tears.
cherry poor you, yes sounds like the good old 12-week growth spurt.

Urgh, I had to wake him from his mahoosive nap to feed at 7pm so bath and bed were later than usual. I tried to do a nice relaxing baby massage but he was really energised and almost backflipping off the changing table. Then DH dressed him for bed too roughly and he had a meltdown and took ages to go down and woke up just as we sat down for dinner. Up again at 2.30am, 4am and 6.45am and has been alternating between really whingey then furiously energetic all morning. Luckily having a nap now. I have a neighbour coming over for coffee who I was email-introduced to and have never actually met before - how do I make my house look clean and normal and become a Stepford Wife in super quick time?!

By the way, someone was asking about dry skin a while back? Was it you livvy? I think Vaseline is more of a barrier cream than a moisturiser, so I wonder if it would work? I was given some heinously expensive Keihls baby products as a gift but they are really good. The Nurturing Baby Cream for Face and Body is great for his little dry cheeks.

Orenishii Thu 24-Jan-13 10:48:29

Loving all the goings on and successes re sleep, self settling, rolling and feeding! It's so interesting to hear about the slightly older babies...think ds is one of the younger ones in this group so to hear you talk about rolling is wonderful - I can literally hear the excitement in your posts and pointedly ignoring talk of four month sleep regression

I'm on a train into work for lunch with colleagues and ds meeting. Feel very nervous which is ridiculous. But what if he cries? It's a big US corporate and very stiff and regimented. Can feel the nervous sweat forming already. Plus I think there's been major goings on and I have a new manager. Joy.

Orenishii Thu 24-Jan-13 10:50:57

Oh tip for dry skin - coconut oil. Its the elixir of the gods! Has to be 100% pure though and cold pressed. We use it on his bottom instead of talc. Or sweet almond oil - both are great for dry skin and can also help prevent thrush in their mouths.

Smorgs Thu 24-Jan-13 10:51:12

yomping please don't feel bad, I think it's inbuilt in mums to feel anxious when their baby cries. It's what helped them survive when we were out in the wild. But life's not like that anymore (luckily) and I do believe that once you can read your baby's cues and can tell when they just need to sleep, and they are clean, dry, warm and fed, then it's OK to leave them for short periods to see if they will drop off by themselves.

I was furiously bouncing on the Swiss ball trying to get Smorglet off to sleep the other day while he was flipping about in my arms like a wet fish. I knew he was just tired but there was nothing I could do to soothe him. I was getting more and more upset feeling like a failure so I had to put him down in his basket and step outside just to calm down. Then it occurred to me that when I'm upset I just want to be alone, so I said to myself I would go and brush my teeth and come back in 5 minutes. He wasn't just wingeing, he was crying. I couldn't even look at myself in the bathroom mirror. But in less than 5 minutes he was silent. I crept in and he was awake but calm so I left him and 5 minutes later he was asleep. I had mixed feelings afterwards, but I've since realised that he is just growing up a bit and becoming so aware of his surroundings and people and stuff that he sometimes gets totally over-stimulated and just needs a few minutes alone. Other times of course he just really, really wants a cuddle.

Thanks for the tips beccus, great it's working out for you!

funchum8am Thu 24-Jan-13 11:33:30

Yup smile4 babyfunch likes to start her day at 4. actually 3.15 today, though DH took her 6-7, lovely rebbon that he is, and I napped when she did from 8-9. She appears to have the ability to stay awake for hours at that time of day which worries me a lot. Last night we tried moving bedtime from 7 to 10 by allowing a longer afternoon nap, then playing while we made and ate dinner. First waking moved from 12:30 to 1:30 which is a start, and I hope for further progress tonight. Only problem is DH falls asleep around 8pm on a good day, earlier if a bad day, so is not much use for bathtime duties. I will be working on this!

huffle my DH is going to be in charge of weaning too. We are looking out for signs that she is ready over the next 2 months but plan to wait to as close to 6 months as we can. I have asked him to research blw vs pureed but he loves cooking so I suspect will be doing at least some pureeing. I hope we end up doing a bit of both, rather than putting a label on what we are doing.

If feeding causes as many issues as sleep then DH may find himself a single parent as I will be carted off by the men in white coats!

Thanks all who have posted about routines and settling, I was inspired to move bedtime later having seen how early we were doing it, and will definitely have plenty of chance to try all the wonderful settling ideas! She often settles for naps after a short cry and settles beautifully at bedtime in her cot but is a nightmare to settle at night wakings. sad

Hope you're all having lovely days smile

YompingJo Thu 24-Jan-13 11:44:53

45 minutes of sleep before she woke up full of smiles and very pleased with herself! shockgrin

She has either had a cold or a bad reaction to jabs, or both, but either way I can heartily recommend these tube snotsuckers nasal aspirators. They are much much better and more fun than the useless bulb shaped ones. A bit of breastmilk up her nose (or saline drops) then a good suck with the tube and she can breathe much more easily. (She does not enjoy this procedure but she agrees that she feels better afterwards!) This helped her to sleep much better last night after she hardly slept the night before because she kept waking herself up by snuffling loudly. I also put a dab of Boots baby Vicks type stuff on my boob at each feed so she would inhale it as she fed. She is a lot better today - she was listless and sad yesterday, lots of red eyes, face rubbing, sniffing, sneezing and high pitched crying and a temperature.

Poor mite, horrible to see her like that, makes me realise how happy she usually is now (apart from bad teething days confused) compared to how she was for the first 10 weeks. The Colief is definitely helping lots too. My medicine cabinet now has more stuff for her than for me!

I have been going to some group CBT workshop sessions to help with negative thinking, control freak tendencies, failure to give myself a break and difficulty managing my temper and frustration, and I'm actually finding them really helpful, despite initial hmm feeling and misgivings.

<whispers> I am dangerously close to feeling like I can cope with this parenting business at the moment... <waits for 14 week feeding difficulties or 4 month sleep regression to hit as retribution for foolish cockiness newfound confidence grin>

YompingJo Thu 24-Jan-13 11:49:28

Smorgs it was me asking about dry skin - thank you for the recommendation. I'll try some baby moisturiser on mini yomping's face. She also has little patches of dry skin on her legs, the nurse had a look when we went for jabs and said it's eczema.

Yomping, I feel the same when DS cries but I've been forcing myself to stay calm by reminding myself that I'm doing everything I can. As in he's clean and dry, just fed and in my arms so I can't be that bad, and he just needs to cry for a bit. Luckily, he cries himself out quite quickly.

Was going to say the same about Vaseline Smorgs, but maybe in this cold weather it could be put on cheeks before going out to protect them, as well as moisturising with something else morning and night.

I'm ignoring sleep regression too, Oren grin
Hope your lunch goes well, don't be nervous - you're doing great!

Centile question - on my iPad app DS's line is above the 25th line, and below the 50th, so do I say he's in the 25th centile? I have no idea.

He's still not sleeping confused

Woolybob Thu 24-Jan-13 11:59:04

wantan if they're anything like my hv they probably will! I'd go prepared with a plan to improve bf/top up with expressed and excuses (like the cold) just in case if I were you! wink Good Luck!

We are trying to improve self settling here too having been terrified inspired by the link angelico posted. Some limited success feeding to almost asleep if she finds her thumb but dh did get her settled once in the evening with the shush pat thing so I live in hope!

Londonmrss Thu 24-Jan-13 12:08:00

so dd slept from 10pm til 7am without waking. for the second night in a row. my painful letdown reflex however awoke at 2am and then 4am. had to get up to pump at 5am because I was in agony. still at least one of us slept!

yay for all the genius babies rolling over! no rolling here. we still haven't had proper laughs although we get lots of big grins and almost-laughs. I have to try really hard not to compare development with all you lot. mine's one of the youngest,.. and they're all individuals, right?

Woolybob Thu 24-Jan-13 12:12:38

The worst is the sudden emotional type crying with the pouty lip, this is the only time dd properly tears up and the crazy thing is she can be really happy and smiley then just suddenly start. Fortunately usually just suddenly switches back, crazy baby.

cherry the centiles are the lines so I guess you describe it just like you did - between the two! grin

WantAnOrange Thu 24-Jan-13 12:16:59

Thanks Wooly, they can suggest FF but considering I have a very stubborn little bottle refuser I dont think I could anyway.

Thanks Wooly.

London, DS did a small chuckle once a couple of weeks ago but nothing since and no sign of rolling. I think they're a similar age?

CookieMonster88 Thu 24-Jan-13 13:21:51

London, Cherry, were the same here. Big grins and happy noises but no laughs. DD was 23rd Oct.

Had a good night last night, sleep at 10pm, woke at 4am but dummy so sorted that, finally awake at 6am, feel like a different women smile

Injections this afternoon hmm

hufflepuffle Thu 24-Jan-13 14:03:22

We have such a major sleep fighter here. Even the dring didn't work this morning. Spell in cot with grizzlies turned to screaming very quickly. In the end we went out in car and still took 10 minutes!!!! Wondering is this a phase or just a new chapter!??!!!

No rolls here Londonmrss. 14 weeks. Plenty bum in air so maybe soon!

hufflepuffle Thu 24-Jan-13 14:03:59

Dring???! Silly phone. Swing!

hufflepuffle Thu 24-Jan-13 14:40:19

Oh god. Bad mummy emoticon. DS so difficult today. Have just had him in front of cbeebies for 20 mins so I can get anything done. This is a first. Frightening how content he is! TV is bad for babies' imagination and attention!!!!! I have been spouting this for years!!!

Right. In to pram for a walk it is!!

Londonmrss Thu 24-Jan-13 14:42:03

I hate people who come over and want baby cuddles, but they wear really strong perfume. I hate perfume anyway, it gives me a headache. but it leaves my baby stinking of stupid chanel or whatever for several days. I like the smell of my baby, I don't want her to smell of nasty sickly perfume!
angry angry
I have some friends coming over tomorrow. is it rude to tell them perfume is banned? I might say it makes her sneeze or something.

lisbethsopposite Thu 24-Jan-13 14:50:55

Crazy i think you & I are in the same place on routines - so second timers are worse.

My wonderful au-pair has left after 3 weeks! She was a bit quiet for a few days and complained about a pain in her stomach. She has exams in june that she studied every free moment for. I came downstairs yesterday morning and she was very morose.I asked her if she'd like to go home and her face lit up. She left this morning to spend a few days with her DS in Dublin and then Spain Sat..
She has lined up 2 of her friends to come work in her place but tbh I'm in shock!

crazypaving Thu 24-Jan-13 15:00:07

oh no lisbeth poor you! that must be hard after taking time to get to know her. fingers crossed maybe one of her friends will slot in perfectly.

I'm tied to the sofa - ds2 has been feeding pretty much solidly since midday confused thank goodness ds1's at the childminder today. just got up to get something to eat and he stayed latched on and fast asleep. now I'm thirsty. ah balls.

Huffle, similar situation here. It is just a phase! Power of positive thought and all that...

Olivess Thu 24-Jan-13 15:18:44

yomping and others - you have given me inspiration to do some self-settling practice - starting tomorrow I think I might try every other day. Is this crazy though - I worry a bit that if she gets very upset (quite likely) then will she have negative associations with the crib. I don't want to ruin the work I've been doing at night to get her to sleep better. Is it better that she associates her crib with night sleeping and has her daytime naps somewhere different?

Londonmrss Thu 24-Jan-13 15:53:36

olives I just make sure she's not upset when self settling. I mean I just pick her up immediately of she's very upset. if she's just a bit grumpy, I stroke her head and give her the dummy and she is then calm so I can walk away and then when I look back, she's looking sleepy.

the last 2 nights have been better and its the first time we haven't used Ewan the sheep. I've never found that that thing makes her sleepy, but since she stated trying to talk to it every night, I thought it was time to get rid.

a bit jealous of those of you whose babies nap in your arms. even though I have a self settling baby, I feel a bit sad that when I try to cuddle her to sleep, she just wiggles and tries to escape and then cries.

another difficult feeding day today. will this ever end? refused until 11am and then had 3 feeds in 2 hours.

squidkid Thu 24-Jan-13 16:12:08

Just back from yoga and long walk and there are zillion posts to catch up on, but first: we have yet another new skill - third in 24 hours!! She just rolled from her back to her front as well!!!

smile4me Thu 24-Jan-13 18:28:29

yay yesterday's discovery was that the knee bone is connected to the leg bone, and even better there are feet at the bottom! These babies are so exciti the moment! grin

And yay for miniyomping settling to sleep! and minilondon for having long sleeps

smorgs I have done the same thing putting DD down when got frustrated trying to get her to sleep and she was asleep by the time I came back. Needless to say it has never worked since grin

But I am in love with Ewan...turned 'i'm not going to sleep you stupid woman' into 'zzzzzzzzzzzz' Magic

smile4me Thu 24-Jan-13 18:31:35

Londonmrs no cuddling to sleep here... will sometimes feed to sleep but more often now is wriggling and thrashing before she's asleep.

Saw this yesterday in an email... explains the 4 month sleep regression (apologies if someone else has already posted it too grin )


Cheesymonster Thu 24-Jan-13 19:53:20

I think this might have been covered before, sorry, but how long do you do tummy time for?

Beccus Thu 24-Jan-13 20:06:08

thanks yomping & huffle. so glad u had self settling success, yomping. love the term 'assisted self settle' - that's def what it is. i also hate it when she cries. she had a melt down in the pram on a crowded bus today & there was nothing i could do to comfort her until a kind lady offered me her seat so i could pick her up & cuddle her. with the self settling i think u get better at differentiating tired grizzle from real crying, and when to keep going as the grizzles die down & u know they will drop off soon & also when they become more distressed & need to be picked up & cuddled. And there r shit times when it doesn't work & u feel like smorgs did. i had literally been trying to get her to sleep for 3 hrs the other day & was getting more & more angry & feeling more & more helpless & burst into tears & left and sent dp in to deal with her. thank god it happened when he was home from work. self settling is much easier now she can find her hands & suck them to self soothe. wooly, laughed at mr burns. babybeccus does this thing where she looks like dr evil's mini me smile

hufflepuffle Thu 24-Jan-13 21:19:24

Anyone just see nursing program on itv?? This woman had home water birth. Room full of people. (?). In water for 20 mins. Baby came out in one push, hardly realised. Hardly broke a sweat. FFS. That's what I wanted. The birth, not the onlookers. ( again, ??????!)

Who would have known it? Cross grumpy baby likes sitting in his pushchair in house. Haven't seen him so contented for days (well not since stint with cbeebies this morning blush

hufflepuffle Thu 24-Jan-13 21:55:52

Smile4me. Thank you, that is very helpful and all makes sense. Kept waiting for the 'how to' section.........! It did however reinforce my worries about not napping enough during day. I read with wonder when some of you talk about sleeping after 90 mins awake. DS has never done that, but I have never encouraged. We also kept later bed time after early was so crap. But he is changing.

Need to try harder. Not because I need a routine but because I feel my little man doesn't know how to deal with sleepiness in day time and it is making him cranky as hell. And this is relevant to age. I have so bloody many appointments and places to be over next few weeks but I am going to make the effort to keep on top of this.

And tmrw I have 2 appointments and a meeting for lunch!!! FFS.

hufflepuffle Thu 24-Jan-13 21:57:38

Cheesy we do tummy for as long as happy. Needs to bd in good form first so none this last few days!! Might be 2 mins, might be 5!

Londonmrss Thu 24-Jan-13 22:10:39

huffle my lo doesn't usually know she is tired after 90 minutes! I just assume she is after reading that most babies are after that length of time so I pop her down and she usually settles. sometimes she isn't tired so I have to try again in a bit. she just can't be awake longer than 2 hours as she becomes impossible! here's what I read: http://www.troublesometots.com/are-you-keeping-baby-awake-too-long/
completely unfounded but it's a guideline that just happens to work for my baby.

London lots of grins and half laughs here too, but no rolling either. My DD doesn't like being cuddled much either.

Yomping DD has really bad dry skin too. Doctor prescribed cetroben for her- its much better than E45 I have found.

Oren and Cherry I am also denying ignoring the 4 month sleep regression!!

Huffle I had a flashback today of my birth... I was panting and walking like John Wayne down the labour ward towards the birthing pool room.. and who was in there? OH yes, a motherfucking group of women and men on a tour of the birth centre. No joke hmm They all looked at me and smiled while I was riding a contraction out and were like.. err good luck. So humiliating.

Another fucking horrendous day here. I have absolutely no idea whats going on. She was dry, fed, settled, but would not, and i mean, would not go to sleep. She'd drop off for 5 mins, and then wake up again. All day. This is the girl that still sleeps for a good few hours in the afternoon- you can imagine the meltdown that nearly occurred. Thankfully wasn't as bad as the other day, but still very distressing. Even a car ride didn't work. Cuddles didnt work. Feeding didn't work. Just arrrrrrrrrrgghhhhhh! She's 9 weeks!! Whats going on!?!?!?!

Oh, and DD is addicted to the TV. I'm hoping that all it is is the flashing colours/lights and the voices. Must try and stop turning the TV on.. She screeams at me if she isn't facing the TV. Ugh.

sorry. feeling very woe is me today. its hard to have days like this when i am so used to her being good. i feel very lucky when i read some of your posts on here... most of you have much more difficult babies than mine!! sorry to be so unsupportive sometimes. i love you all, really i do. x

Elpis Thu 24-Jan-13 23:12:11

Thanks to lovely message from smileyhappymummy and whoever said I was superwoman. smile Had to go to dentist in Cambridge (I know - ridiculous when I live in London, but I trust him absolutely and he's very, very good) which meant a 6-bus, two-train, one-tube day with the preschool pickup too. Both of them were very good. DS lay on the floor of the dental surgery in his snowsuit and chuckled while DD sat next to him:

'WHO is a bee-YOO-tiful little BOY? He is PERFECT!'

[DS grunts and yelps in agreement]

'WHO is a bee-YOO-tiful little BOY? He is ...'

This was repeated at 30-second intervals during the session. Dentist drilled a hole in a filling because he thought there might be decay behind it. There wasn't. grin

DS is totally uninterested in rolling. But he is so fat that it must be a big effort to even lift an arm. He did pick up a cloth book yesterday, though.

hufflepuffle Fri 25-Jan-13 00:49:22

Elpis that is the cutest image!!! I'd like an older DD to entertain DS thank you. Well done you. Such an epic journey......

Progress here is that DS fell asleep at feed and straight in to cot, no unhappiness!! ( aha u cry!! Is feeding to sleep really progress??! See all previous online articles on sleep associations....... shock) WTF is that he woke at 12.30.......... Grrrrrrrrr

Mickey nice flashback. Made me think of me walking round for hours in my nice new purple dressing gown and matching slippers stopping periodically to grip whatever I could and tears streaming down face cos so many people could see me. sad sad. Perhaps your DD is acting the big girl and misbehaving due to telepathic link to all these older babies??

Enough of half exhausted banter, huffle, concentrate on feeding this child back to sleep.........

hufflepuffle Fri 25-Jan-13 00:52:14

And thank you for all the lovely messages of support re bf. I'm not all that at all. I'm shocked at how stubborn I've been and am now telling myself that if I cannot overcome this hurdle enough may be enough.


funchum8am Fri 25-Jan-13 03:41:32

mickey huffle bad birth memories are horrible. I have actually just started to move away from dwelling on my badly managed hugely painful induction cos I sent a letter of complaint which led to a meeting with the head of midwifery on Wednesday. She was really grateful for the feedback and confirmed that there were indeed procedures bit followed (refusal to give me pain relief beyond codrydamol, putting me a woman having a likely stillbirth in with me while I was making labour type noises) and they were great at involving me in ideas for how to improve their service. Two midwives who were responsible, including one who was downright rude (ie me: the shower is running cold, please can you show me how to work it? MW: I don't know, I don't shower here.) are going to be asked to make statements and be verbally reprimanded and given guidance on how to improve try a little basic compassion, you are in a caring profession

The wakeful nights since then have been way better as flashbacks have stopped! I hope you stop remembering the bad bits soon sad

Discovery of tonight - white noise calms babyfunch's crying, though doesn't send her to sleep. Helps a bit though, have been trying to settle a wakeful baby for 40 mins.

Londonmrss Fri 25-Jan-13 05:25:24

No babyLondon, 5am is NOT playtime. No, I don't care how much you smile at me and chat to me, I am going back to sleep.

smile4me Fri 25-Jan-13 07:45:09

huffle I decided I wanted a water birth after an episode of OBEM where a young girl squirted a baby out in 2 small pushes too! I even had the pool filled but MW told me there was no way bubba was going to come out in there so I my dream of water birth fixing everything was smashed grin . She was totally right too.

Did I say I thought DD was drinking less... well she must have overheard cos I've felt like a saggy cow by 10AM for the past couple of days. I've been sucked so dry my nipples are almost raw again! And to make it even worse DD has been extra spewey today... super-hungry baby and empty boobs made for a grumpy afternoon confused

Elpis that is so cute!

beccus I think you're totally right re differentiating crying from protesting... I definitely couldn't tell the difference for ages but now if I think she's just having a grizzle I leave her for a while without feeling guilty.

mickey there's another developmental stage around 10 weeks (if you were overdue)... for us caused total lack of ability to go to sleep without proper screaming so maybe you've hit that? Or hopefully just a bad day grin

Cheesy if LO hates tummy time you don't have to force it, we have done next to none and DD has good neck strength and can do the whole push up thing just fine.

Elpis Fri 25-Jan-13 07:55:24

DS slept for seven hours!

He wasn't even in his cot, because he fell asleep during the 10pm feed and I was too soft-hearted to kick him out of the bed. He didn't wake for a guzzle until 5.15am.

What a PERFECT little BOY! etc

Beccus Fri 25-Jan-13 08:03:06

huffle, funchum & mickey - baby massage is at the hospital so i had nasty flashbacks to labor, too. have been a couple of times now & it is good to associate with something nicer. huffle, babybeccus yawns, rubs her eyes, gets red eyes, generally looks tired, clingy etc etc, but will not go to sleep of her own accord unless she is in pram/sling. i just put her in the cot, ride out the grizzles, shhh & pat, pray she finds her hands to suck quickly & she will usually go off. think i will try & scrounge some baragins at harvey nics today - am figuring out which tube stations i can take the pram to & which buses are less chockers full of prams smile

Elpis Fri 25-Jan-13 09:16:34

Beccus - have fun at Harvey Nicks. Can you take sling? Much easier on tube IME. I stick baby on floor of changing room if I'm trying anything on. Of course pram might be easier if you're planning to buy frying pan...

Orenishii Fri 25-Jan-13 09:17:33

OK I read all of the stuff on the Baby Sleep site and all of the stuff on self-settling and am now freaked out! It all assumes you put your baby down in a room to sleep of an evening, which we don't do. Arrrgghhh! Why is this so difficult, why is it causing so much anxiety!

Pre-11pm, of an evening DS sleeps on me or on his lambskin next to me though sometimes we have a few issues of him waking up when I put him down. But i try to be relaxed about it - is this wrong, should I be more militant about it? I read on the SIDS site that pre-six months, babies should sleep in the same room as you anyway, including naps and although I have monitors and the sensor pad, I just don't want to be in another room.

And to add to all that - the sleep site said naps in buggy or sling don't count because it's not restorative if the baby isn't still. So all those times I'm out and about with DS in the sling with him sleeping (like a baby!) don't count apparently. Arrgggghhhhhhhhh!!!

I'm going to start making more of an effort to settle him for naps in the day but i will not put him down in his cot, upstairs, unless i plan to be up there with him. I never, ever wanted to go down that route - it feels like way too much distance and separation. I hate this constant doubt and confusion. I more than that, I hate the insidious Westernised downstream approach that just creeps into my consciousness - I bet babies in tribes just get slung on their mother's back, or put down in a hut and have wonderful sleep and their mother's don't worry about their babies brains or limbs being stunted from not enough quality napping wink

Katla Fri 25-Jan-13 09:28:52

Caught up now.

Squid sorry to hear about your gran, she reached a good age though. My grandad died last January at age 90 - it was the right time for him as all the people he wanted to speak to had died already.

Elpis grin re image at dentist and so fat to roll. Erin doesn't roll either (she 15 weeks today) but very determined about sitting up.

Interesting to read everyone's routines. Mine is generally up about 7:30-8:30 depending when Erin wakes, she'll be awake about 1.5 hours then nap for an hour or more (as she is now) - then awake another couple of hours, then nap. She won't nap in her cot through day so I put her on a big cushion on sofa or in pram or car seat if we out. I'm trying to bring bed earlier so now she's in bed asleep (practicing self settling - depends on timing to be successful as if she's overtired she fights it). She is waking once in night to feed but she's easy to settle during night and evenings definitely calmer in last week. Thanks Angelico for link to that website.

Yesterday she nearly fell asleep sitting upright on my mums knee - I could see her eyes getting heavy and head dropping, so that's a first as she used to scream when getting sleepy. So could just move to pram for a nap.

It's amazing how Erin is changing everyday - her head held higher, new noises, being quicker at looking around at everything, sitting up, growing hair, being interested in grabbing books and looking at pictures. She loves looking at herself in mirror and going in bath (makes a huge wet bit on fireside rug by kicking wildly so we all get a bit of a bath).

I have no idea what centile she is - I must go to get her weighed next week as haven't seen HV since she was 6 weeks. More for interest really - she's got rolls of fat and chubby wrists. Looks like a wee Buddha when sitting grin

oooh, loving the Rabbie Burns emoticons today!! smile Haggis for dinner, mmm.

Londonmrss Fri 25-Jan-13 09:38:12

Beccus, if you fancied a trip to Stratford Westfield, all DLR stations have step free access and they have a really good parenting room for feeding and changing.

Oren to be honest I don't think you should get bogged down in trying to do naps or whatever on a way which makes you unhappy. you're his mother and you should follow your instincts.

If I'm honest, I have the kind of baby who follows the advice that I've read. BUT that's only because I only remember reading the things which provide me with some confirmation that I'm doing ok. My baby prefers to nap in her basket in the room with me and at bedtime we pop her in her cot in the other room. She sleeps better that way. I try not to bother reading anything that disagrees with this approach because this is what works for me and I have enough self-doubt without anyone else adding to it!
I think maybe that's what we should all do- because I'm sure there are arguments in favour of (and against)every parenting approach and as long as we are following a routine which works for us and our babies as individuals then fuck whichever expert has given you unsolicited advice. You are right in your approach, whatever that may be.

Would you ever follow some standard collection of advice in the rest of your life? Or try and make sure your life was progressing in exactly the same way as everyone else? Just follow your instincts. I feel certain that they will be spot on, no matter how different they are from some advice that someone else is following.

Orenishii Fri 25-Jan-13 09:44:16

Thanks London that's really good advice. TBH i think that's the crux of it - what if I'm not doing the right thing for DS. That's where the doubt creeps in. You're right about reading types of advice though - I know certain types of information go against our particular ethos so why do I read them?

Katla Fri 25-Jan-13 09:50:34

Orenishii I read various things on www.babycalm.co.uk a blog that I found helpful.

I've not been really following any books or doing 'sleep training' of any kind with Erin. I have really just been doing what feels 'right' for me and what works with Erin (that really just means Erin is not crying and seems happy). recently she 'told' me (by getting terribly grumpy in eves) that she needed to go to bed earlier so I brought bedtime forward from 11pm to starting bedtime from 7-8pm (depending on when her last afternoon nap was). On a good day, the pat shush works fine, otherwise I feed her til she's drunk on milk drowsy and put her in cot after. This is a change in last couple weeks as previously we were rocking to sleep in arms as she was crying - but this has now stopped and evenings are much calmer now she's not overtired.

I didn't want to co sleep (though did a bit at the start) and am aiming to get her to sleep in her cot in the early evening. In the longer term (perhaps by 6 months) I want to get her sleeping in cot (or pram) for day naps as once she's more mobile it won't be safe to let her sleep on cushion on sofa. So I take it as a process and try to work to goals but not get too worried if things aren't working now. From reading everyone's stories it shows just how different babies are so I think just do what seems to suit you and your baby, with a view on what you'd ideally want to happen and try to gently manipulate towards that.

squidkid Fri 25-Jan-13 09:52:14

Ooof. Not a great night sleep. Frantic tired crying for hours in the evening, multiple wakenings. Been settled and sleeping on and off since 4am though.

Will not complain, she is easier than many. yawn.

Did a roll for boyfriend this morning so that was nice. He was getting upset that he misses all the good stuff and sees all the tired crying!

Today marks one year since I found out I was pregnant! Getting nostalgic and looking through old photos and emails. Ah, me and boyfriend were so nervous and excited. Can't believe it turned into a real baby who is nearly 4 months old.

Katla Fri 25-Jan-13 09:56:09

On baby calm, it is the blog bit I was reading (various topics) as I seem to have linked to her shop, sorry blush

squidkid Fri 25-Jan-13 10:04:37

Orenishi don't fight what works for you. There are things which are wrong when it comes to kids, like abuse and neglect, and the rest is just opinion.

I think you do better spending time studying your child rather than child theory.. eh, but i am quite baby led I suppose.

Have come across some quite badly neglected kids (not many actually abused ones thank god) and... meh, what difference does timing of naps make when a kid is loved wanted stimulated fed and kept warm? (which reminds me i should buy a rain cover for my pushchair really shouldn't I)

Orenishii Fri 25-Jan-13 10:17:41

I know, I know, DH just said exactly the same thing - DS will tell us. I don't know. His "bedtime" starts around 7pm it's just that he sleeps downstairs with me until I go up. But he tends to wake up around ten and we have an actual play session - at 10pm! I dunno. It's never going to be put him to bed in his own room, until he starts indicating he wants his own room - I guess around 3 or 4 - but I can't shake this feeling that at some point (soon!) I need to start getting him used to not sleeping on me - you know, like in the older months.

The irony is we're completely baby-led, I just have such self-doubt that I am not reading him right. He sleeps through, he has days when I know he should sleep more and days when he does but generally I'd say we really lucked out with him - somehow we fell into this habit of taking him up with me, he feeds, I cuddle then I lay him down next to me and he drifts off. It's pre-all that that worries me.

squid I was just looking at my mac calendar the other day, looking at how i was tracking fertility last year. It is such a lovely haze of nostalgia. We have the scan photos up on the wall in the hallway and it's mental to think that was DS!

katia it is so amazing to watch the development. It really makes me want to study it, just for fun like, not so much career-wise, because it's so amazing to see the neurons firing and the connections being made. DS understand anticipation now, I'm sure. So I'll build up an action - like going to "bite his belly" and his face is all excitement building, then when I get to his belly, it's peals of laughter!

YompingJo Fri 25-Jan-13 10:37:21

Second day on a row that Dr had had morning map in cot with minimal during - today I stopped her taking, put her down with swaddling and white noise, posted her for 4 mins and she was asleep! This is a bit of a revelation as my back is becoming totally buggered from carrying her around all day so I need her to be able to sleep in cot sometime.

Orenishii, I think that's bollocks about sleep in sling or pram not counting - and so do you! Trust your instincts.

Orenishii Fri 25-Jan-13 11:15:51

Yomping I think you're right too, and it's just another example of all this "advice" that doesn't correlate. It also says that babies 3 months and older shouldn't need to eat every two hours. Why? Who says? Is it designed to stop grazing or snacking? So what if your baby does that? It just feels like all these should's and shouldn't's are so arbitrary and all it does is feed anxiety and have us chasing our tails.

Rant over smile

squidkid Fri 25-Jan-13 11:36:56

Is anyone else madly hungry?
Breastfeeding generally has made me thirsty not hungry but this past week I've been ravenous...

Elpis Fri 25-Jan-13 11:49:49

The fuckers at work have abolished the section I edit. They are not sure what job might be available in August.

I knew it was coming.

Smorgs Fri 25-Jan-13 11:56:11

Oh shit elpis that sucks I'm so sorry. Are you due back in August?

It's my birthday today. I turn 33.
Gift from DS was sleeping 8pm - 7am
Gift from DH is a 'surprise' party which he told me about last night with guests arriving at ours at Smorglet's bedtime hmm

Orenishii, I agree with Yomping that that can't be right about napping in the pram or where ever, I mean it's the vehicle that's moving, not the baby's body. Perhaps it's not as restorative, but not completely worthless I'm sure.
I don't really read any theory type stuff. All the sleep info that's been posted lately is interesting, but it's fried my brain, I'm going to continue going with the flow.

Cheesey, I do tummy time with DS a couple of times a day, just for a few minutes, when I remember. He gets grumpy with it quickly. And like Huffle, haven't done it for a couple of days because he hasn't been in the mood for anything.

Mickey, hope things are better today. I know what you mean about it feeling worse when you normally have things easy. DS woke several times last night, which he used to do regularly, but because I've become used to him just waking once or not at all, it killed me! grin

Your DD sounds so sweet Elpis, and I most definitely agree with the Superwoman accolade.

Well, I seem to be getting my smiley, happy baby back (fingers crossed).
Yesterday was crap (no naps whatsoever), last night was super crap (woke to feed 4 times), this morning was a bit crap (grumpy and clingy), but then he randomly put him self to sleep in his cot when I left him there to look at his mobile.
Then we went out to a friend's bridal shower, so he had a couple of good sleeps in the pushchair on the subway. He even fell asleep at the party on the rug for a bit. In between and since we got back he's been all smiles and chat.
Shall wait and see how tonight goes...

Happy birthday Smorgs. What a nice present from DS! thanks

Sorry to here that Elpis, fuckers indeed. Hope they sort something out for you.

Yes Squid! Just this week, I've been starving in the evenings, like I eat my dinner and feel like I could eat the same again straight after. confused Up til now I hadn't noticed much difference in my appetite.

crazypaving Fri 25-Jan-13 13:03:35

oh elpis that's so shit. hope something positive can come of it. your dd sounds gorgeous! can I borrow her for my next dentist appointment? ds2 screamed blue murder the whole way through my last one. luckily the dentist wasn't fazed...

ds2 struggles to sleep after 3am feed every night and is awake properly at 5am. needs a fucking nap by 6am unsurprisingly which is when dh and I get up for the day. feeding at midnight and then waking at 3 isn't cool. I'm so fucking tired I'm struggling to keep my cool with ds1 and think on my feet with him. terrible twos require fast thinking for distraction and the patience of a saint. I'm failing on both counts sad

I suppose the silver lining to this cloud is that ds2 is feeding loads and so hopefully his weight will pick up.

any other over-supply buddies starting to offer both sides yet? ds2 guzzled from both at all his feeds last night. was hoping it'd mean he'd sleep longer - alas not - but his appetite is obviously increasing.

hufflepuffle Fri 25-Jan-13 15:46:18

Hey. So many posts.....,

Elpis that Is pure shite about work. Hopefully you are thinking the worst but will not come to.

Regarding all this sleep and routine talk. My child shows very little routine by himself. He does not settle well to sleep in day and as result becomes so unhappy when tired. The only structure we hav is bedtime and it works. So we need help. I believe if you are going well and baby happy and mummy/daddy reading baby well then keep it up!! Don't let any rule book try to change you.

Perhaps it's me? Am I too uptight? Am I reading him badly? Who knows. But we need to sort this so I must gently try harder. I don't doubt he will settle eventually but don't see any harm in gently helping him. Especially as I won't be around all time soon. I have no intention of causing crying fits or feeding outside of what he seems to need. I've probably read too much but if I can pick some gems of info from each maybe I'll get somewhere!

And if any of your lovely babies who nap during day or sleep well at night want to send him telepathic messages, fire away!!

Happy birthday Smorgs!! Surprise!!

BoraBora Fri 25-Jan-13 16:01:05

Huffle, I've heard that the no cry sleep solution book is meant to be really brilliant. You've already bought a Cluskiboo haven't you? Might be worth giving it a read.

hufflepuffle Fri 25-Jan-13 16:06:04

Just got my Cuski boo today bora!! Not read any of that book yet, will certainly look at. Thank you x

Orenishii Fri 25-Jan-13 16:10:44

huffle, bora is right about the No Cry Sleep Solution book - despite all my anxieties, it is a really good book.

funchum8am Fri 25-Jan-13 16:12:15

crazy I totally sympathise re sleep, we have the same pattern. Last night she managed to sleep 4-4:40 which is usually prime shouty time. We have moved bedtime from 7 to 8.30 which seems to have shifted first waking/feed from 12:30 to 1:30 though. you are amazing to cope with ds1 as well on so little sleep!

Babyfunch rolled front to back for the first time this morning, then promptly did it again for me to video for DH! if I read that a year ago I would have thought what a ridiculous bit of pfb-ism

squid cherry re hunger I think I once read that bfing post 3 months is when the weight really starts to come off, so maybe their calorie needs ate greater now, hence feeling hungry?

orenishii to me you sound like you have a wonderfully clear set of principles to base your parenting on and you should use those...books and experts are for people like me who are less clear about the means they want to employ to achieve the ends we all share - a happy healthy baby in a happy loving home smile

Olivess Fri 25-Jan-13 17:02:41

oreniishi I feel just like you - want to carry on with my instincts but feel so confused by all the sleep advice/rules. I don't want to end up 2 years from now with a toddler waking 3 times a night but maybe I'm panicking too much. Thing is DD's sleep isn't great at night - last night was quite good and she was awake 4 times! I'm sure if she could self settle like the advice says it might improve. Thing is whenever we try she gets so upset. I kind of feel that she's not ready to be pressured to self settle and she'll do it in her own time.

I think we all have to think about how far we have all come. DD wouldn't even be put down in the first few weeks. We had to take it in turns to hold her all night.

OctoberOctober Fri 25-Jan-13 17:19:54

london that is such a good point about the fact that you wouldn't expect any other aspect of your life to follow a particular pattern exactly in line with everyone else, so why do we put this pressure on ourselves with regard to babies?

Londonmrss Fri 25-Jan-13 17:36:50

Exactly. Gina Ford can fuck right off.

hufflepuffle Fri 25-Jan-13 17:39:18

Hunger. I thought mine had finally settled. Past few weeks seemed more normal. This week tho is back again. Really need to eat, my weight loss is not attractive. Skeletor springs to mind......

BoraBora Fri 25-Jan-13 18:04:03

Anyone using a stretchy sling they can recommend?

crazypaving Fri 25-Jan-13 18:25:25

bora ds2 lives in the Moby. love it.

those worried now about night waking and implications for future - ds1 was a complete nightmare at night until 14 months. he finally started doing longer stretches at that point until 16m when he suddenly started sleeping through. he is now usually a champion sleeper. throughout that time we went to him when he was upset and gave him what he needed. now if he wakes at night he generally chats happily to himself until he goes off again, unless something is wrong. I believe that's because we've created positive sleeping associations and he feels secure. it could all be bollocks of course, and I do believe that sleeping through is a developmental milestone that different children get to at different ages, but I think the journey there is important.

rant over!

Londonmrss Fri 25-Jan-13 18:34:04

I like the Moby too. am not keen on using it for long periods as sometimes she seems a bit uncomfortable bit its good for a quick pop tip the ships or a short walk.

Do you particularly want a stretchy one? As someone on here pointed out, you can't use the stretchy ones for a rucksack carry, you need a woven one for that so that's what I'd probably get next time as you can then carry on your front or your back.

Londonmrss Fri 25-Jan-13 18:35:33

ahahaha auto correct genius! I think I meant 'a quick pop to the shops'...!

smile4me Fri 25-Jan-13 19:03:03

arghhhhhh today is terrible already. Awake and singing at 5.30 after crap night, and have just given up trying to get her to sleep after over an hour. Feeding and rocking/shhhing on shoulder, the only things that work have been total failure. So she is in her cot and will just have to self settle. And yesterday we had 3 40 min naps between 5am and 8pm.... and an incredibly grizzly baby. What are you suppossed to do when nothing works, not even all the so called sleep props? And Ewan worked for 1 day precisely.

orenishii if you and DS are happy with what you are doing then keep at it! It's total crap that they can't get sleep in a sling/buggy/car.... if it was true then either most babies would constantly be evil grizzle monkeys or their mothers would go nuts from lack of social interaction (not being able to go anywhere). I think all the books and websites are good for giving you ideas, but just pick and choose the bits that work for you and ignore the rest grin I read somewhere last week that babies will only sleep for 10 mins if being held shock ... DD has been held for most of her naps since birth and most have been over 10 mins so I know that one's twaddle! Oh and totally agree with WTF on babies not needing to feed every 2 hrs??? I've seen that somewhere too. Some people have clearly never met real babies!

squid totally starving again this week. Just about eaten myself out of house and home. And just about outeating DH who has been shearing and working really hard!

another vote for a moby wrap bora up to 10-12kg I think?

Thanks for reassurance crazy I think you're right about good sleeping being developmental and needing to create positive associations. This is such a short period of time in the grand scheme of things (although some days seem to last forever wink ) and we know they WILL get there eventually (are you listening babies smile )

smile4me Fri 25-Jan-13 19:05:28

Yup i'd go for a woven one next time too... for the rucksack carry ability as you can use them for that much longer.

smile4me Fri 25-Jan-13 19:29:57

arghhhhh DD asleep 15 mins and DH decides it's time to start sanding bedroom window with power tool. Nap over! Nobber

BoraBora Fri 25-Jan-13 20:17:54

Interesting RE woven sling. Do you know of any good ones?

smile4me Fri 25-Jan-13 22:50:32

I've heard storchenwiege and hoppediz do good woven wraps but haven't used one myself

Londonmrss Fri 25-Jan-13 23:16:59

I just bought an ellaroo on eBay but haven't worked out how to use it yet! I'll stick with the Moby until she's old enough to sling her up on my back when we go out.

squidkid Sat 26-Jan-13 08:05:15

Do stretchy wraps go over your coat then, when you use them on the back? I had a moby and did use it a bit for a week or two but got my beco (a soft carrier thing with buckles) around 2 weeks because where the fabric went in relation to your clothes just confused me. And my coat didn't fit on top properly (though I guess it was a bit tight anyway from pregnancy weight gain)

I remember asking the girls at the sling library this and they were like - just wear your moby all day, but the idea of that really annoyed me

Anyway I should be able to use my beco on my back once head control is good enough. She has almost outgrown the infant insert bit. (And in the car seat!)

Well, we are just past the "eye of the storm" according to that wonder weeks chart that is doing the rounds, but Jess is so good it appears to just be one good night, one bad night. She needed a long feed (1hr) before bed in the dark, and dad to stroke her for a good 45 mins after that, but then she slept 8pm-6am!!!! shock I am a lucky cow. I view it as karma for being a horrible insomniac for the last 5 years, I am sleeping like a baby now (and how stupid is that phrase!)

Having a cup of tea now and putting together motivation to do a workout. Got mates coming today so hope the evening isn't too stressful.

FirstTimeForEverything Sat 26-Jan-13 08:13:51

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

squidkid Sat 26-Jan-13 08:19:19

Elpis so sorry about work. Is that legal? It probably is. Cunts. So sorry.
I want to hire your DD also! I have a friend who has a 5 month old and is doing some childminding work, which I found extraordinary, but she says it's actually easier than being home alone as the kids (9 & 6) entertain the baby

crazy Yes!! I have only fed off one side since about 4 weeks when the engorgement was unbearable! But she is so hungry right now and I haven't been engorged for ages and ages now (don't even need breast pads any more) so yes, two boobs per feed now! I was a bit nervous but they don't seem to have exploded.

I have also enjoyed reading everyone's routines, and yes, it's reassuring that none of us are following some textbook routine... we all have our various struggles. I do think babies under 6 months can't be forced to do anything, and any sort of routine is a bonus really! I also think it's completely fair enough to try and push babies one way or another (gently) if their sleep/cry/playtimes are difficult to cope with, but if you're happy with the way things are, why mess...

funchum you may be right about the breastfeeding hunger, also, I have visibly lost loads of weight just in the last couple of weeks. Haven't weighed myself or anything but it is definitely coming off. So I just had to patient like everyone said (jess is 4 months in a couple of days...)

Happy Burns night everyone. I am doing one a couple of weeks late with some mates. and I will have at least one whisky after baby is in bed so there

Angelico Sat 26-Jan-13 08:52:10

Hello! Back home after a couple of nights away. Looking forard to a catch up but just did the first feed of day and bean is back asleep. She finally did another night with no feed middle of night. Mon and Wed we had 2 hrs of screamathon so last night was due to be another one but somehow we headed it off after half an hour and she went from 00:15-08:38. Please let this be a sign of things to come...

Haven't even read all that sleep link yet - anyone want to summarise? grin

Going back to bed for an hour...

crazypaving Sat 26-Jan-13 09:00:24

lie in this morning! fed at 11.45 and 3.45 then needed settling at 4.30 cut slept til 6!!! hooray!

squid about the Moby - yeah I just wear it all day and look like a right dick. also have to feed over the top of tops rather than lifting top which I hate, very exposing. can't wait to graduate on to the ergo, hurry up and get head control ds2!! hope he likes the ergo...

londonlivvy Sat 26-Jan-13 09:03:06

Sorry not to have been keeping in contact. I have been reading (ouch re nipple crack huffle and holy cow Angelico re that link - it has scared the crap out of me) but being at my parents has left less time for mumsnet. It's been great to have the company but I will be glad to get home tomorrow, not least because DF can start doing the late feed again and I can get a bit more sleep. DD has taunted me by sleeping from 11pm to 6am twice and has now gone back to 3 or 4 am. I am shattered. And worse, I keep lying awake at night trying to work out what I did wrong or how I can make her sleep longer. Sigh. On the positive side, she does go to sleep at 7ish most days so I do get a bit of respite.

My dad is convinced that formula is the answer. I keep telling him that as she's allergic to dairy it won't necessarily be straightforward to find a formula she can tolerate, when I do give up, and I don't particularly want to add to my troubles right now, with more gastric distress.

On the subject of breastfeeding, how long are people planning to keep it up for? I'd originally said four months but I actually really love feeding her and think now more like six months. I would like to have a bit more freedom to go out and leave her for a few hours without endlessly having to express. And, selfishly, DF and I wanted to have a two night minimoon (this would be in mid may). His mum has offered to look after dd, but storing up two days of breast milk ain't easy and I don't think expressing would add much of a romantic feel to our minimoon.

londonlivvy Sat 26-Jan-13 09:03:36

Oh and squid, sorry to hear about your gran. Tis always hard to lose a loved one. Hugs.

Londonmrss Sat 26-Jan-13 09:25:16

so a couple of mates came over last night. they we asking me about my labour and I told them a bit about it and basically started crying. Should I be worried about my mental health? Thought I was ok with it because I just try not to think about it, but maybe I should...

squidkid Sat 26-Jan-13 09:59:54

Thanks londonlivvy
Funeral is in a couple of weeks, but I'm not dreading it. Sometimes it's nice to have a celebration/cry. I hope I live to 90!! (Both my grans did, in pretty good health...)

I doubt formula is the answer, I think that's one of those myths that go round (like solids help babies sleep) Hugs - it's so tough on the soul, sleep deprivation. Nothing you are doing wrong, babies just being babies!!

On breastfeeding - I was hoping to make it to 4 or maybe 6 months and didn't enjoy it at all - until about 2 weeks ago. Now I'm really really enjoying it (literally I get this dreamy happiness when I feed) and wonder if I'm going to go the Elpis route....

londonmrs sad
I have found the thing that helps the most is talking about it A LOT, with women who have given birth. And you may find it surprising the perspective other people have. I mean, I felt like a failure for labour going on and on and bloody on and being so much more painful than I anticipated - but other people have thought I was incredible... for going on and on and on with such a painful labour!! Not the way I was framing it at all.

You had a much longer labour than me, dealt with unsympathetic shitty hospital staff, had what sounds like a particularly tough latent bit (which is the worst bit to be tough - because NO ONE HELPS YOU!)... had to deal with them cranking up your labour which is incredibly painful, with a failed epidural - and STILL pushed the baby out in epic time! I mean you are basically a goddess.

Have you considered going through your notes with a midwife - I think some people find that helpful. hugs to you too.

squidkid Sat 26-Jan-13 10:05:17

londonlivvy re minimoon - mid may baby will be 7,8 months right? So giving some formula is expressing seems like too much work would really not disrupt milk supply at all. And your supply should be settled by then. I doubt you would have to express that much.

I think you are a month behind me postnatally and my boobs have settled down SO much in the last month. Jess can sleep for 12 hours (she does sometimes, SORRY!) and I just feel a little bit full. Maybe one of the long term bf-ers with older kids can confirm what things are like around 7-8 months...

londonlivvy Sat 26-Jan-13 10:33:23

Squid she'd be 6.5 months old on our wedding day. I guess it would have settled a bit by then, but still, building up two days of supplies won't be straightforward. I may ask the doc what they advise, formula wise. Cos if I can get her started on it, even just one small feed a day, then at least I know she won't reject the taste later. And I'm told the hyper allergenic stuff is foul.

BoraBora Sat 26-Jan-13 11:11:14

Blimey London I was talking about my labour last night with DH and I got upset too. It started as I was telling him about the labours in this group. On the FB group I said I thought my labour was 4 hours from established labour to birth. Turns out that 4 hours before she was born cervix was still closed - meaning that my labour was probably 1 or 2 hours. I got really freaked out as DH said it was actually a lot worse that I remember it being because there almost wasn't a delivery suite available and I was in and out if consciousness with the pain hmm

Elpis Sat 26-Jan-13 11:33:09

Off to Paris. Screw the bosses. Our train was cancelled and we've been upgraded on the next one. smile To a quiet coach. hmm

London, I don't think you need to worry about your mental health as such, but maybe you need to process it all? Squid's suggestion of going through it with the midwife and talking about it loads sounds good. You went through a lot.

Bora that's crazy! I'm not surprised you get upset, but great you're talking about it too.
I used to think the majority of labours were straightforward, different of course but not traumatic in any way, with the bad ones being the exception, but judging by the experiences on this thread it almost seems the other way round.
I feel really lucky to have got off so easily.

Livvy I was originally thinking to BF til 6 months, but as I'm planning to BLW he'll still need a lot of milk for a while, and I really enjoy it, so I'll just carry on til he doesn't need milk anymore. No idea when that'd be, a year maybe?
I've actually been thinking about finding out how to become a BF consultant ( or whatever they're called).

Crap day again here, obviously not quite out the woods yet.
I had a bit of a meltdown blush
When the weekend comes I'm so desperate to make the most of it, but there aren't enough hours in the day - on one hand I need a break from DS and to do something for me, on the other I want to spend time as a family because DH works so much, and on the third hand(!) I just want to sleep.
Factor in expressing enough to leave DS, DH's plans, DS's crappy moody growth spurt and chores etc. and everything just becomes too difficult.
I'm such a bloody optimist, I always end up disappointed!wink

Have a fantastic time Elpis!
grin @ the quiet coach - that's what they think,

squidkid Sat 26-Jan-13 12:38:26

Just been out with the pushchair which was stupid after another 5 or 6 inches fell last night. My arms ache.
Fuck off snow, no one wants you any more.

Londonmrss Sat 26-Jan-13 13:10:33

DH is a nobber today.

BoraBora Sat 26-Jan-13 13:42:49

London, we need more detail.

Have just DTD for the first time. DH said no different - good. It was really uncomfortable - bad. Thank fuck that's out the way though, it was getting silly.

Londonmrss Sat 26-Jan-13 15:03:45

Jesus, there are some aspects of mumsnet which piss me off. I was just reading a thread about a lady who sadly had a stillborn baby and was thinking of trying again.

Someone was giving the advice of being aware of baby's movements (of course), kick counting several times a day from 20 weeks (not advisable) and that a baby shouldn't have hiccups after 30 weeks and if they do it means something is likely to be wrong (citing some American doctor). Surely that's bollocks? I've never been told that, never read it and because my baby had hiccups at least 3 times per day until the day she was born (and still now) I actively sought information on whether it was normal. People on mn often freaked me out during pregnancy (not you lot) with saying things like this and it's not fair.

I just don't see how saying these things is going to help this poor woman get through another pregnancy.

hufflepuffle Sat 26-Jan-13 15:19:30

Have you heard in news about baby in hospital having dummy taped to its head by a member of staff???????? Criminal charges being brought. Sweet Lord, have you ever heard the like of it???????

I've hurt my back again. I am so peeved and pathetic.

Olivess Sat 26-Jan-13 15:30:59

huffle I read about the baby/dummy incident - can't believe it! And it was a baby admitted with breathing problems.

Crap sleep again las night. She took from 7 til 10.30 to settle. Then w

Olivess Sat 26-Jan-13 15:36:07

Oops stupid phone...
Then woke at 11.30, 1.30 then yo yo-ed in and out of her crib between 2 and 4, she just wouldn't settle to sleep. Finally brought her into our bed at 4.30, woke at 6.30 then finally for the day at 8.30. Don't know what was going on - she wasn't upset just couldn't get to sleep or stay asleep! Thing is she is so gorgeous and delightful in the day - feeding well, napping well, talking, playing, trying to roll etc...then becomes a little monkey at bedtime!

Angelico Sat 26-Jan-13 17:23:20

Had a quick skim through there and yay to all the babies rolling / using two hands etc grin No signs of rolling here - which suited me fine when swaddling blush but we've given it up this week as she was escaping or trying to all the time. Still handy during absolute meltdown.

Elpis so sorry to hear about your job sad It's a bollocks but hope you get something else. DH was a journo for years before academia and it's such a strange period, so many papers going under / downsizing. Tough time to be in your line of work sad He got out a few years ago now (although still does some freelance pieces and book chapters) and I'm really glad - so many guys he worked with dropped dead in their early fifties with heart attacks etc - just the constant stress and pressure. V glad you are heading off to Paris though grin wine

Mickey sending a hug - and on the TV front our bean bloody loves it too. If it's on and she's on her play gym mat she will turn herself 90 degrees to see it or tip her head back to watch it upside down. She likes really inexplicable things too - sometimes it's the news or something not exactly colourful and exciting for a baby!

Cherry know what you mean about the weekend balance. We tend to do family stuff on a Sunday (by which I mean go out for lunch and a walk with the bean who is probably largely indifferent). Today I went out for a few hours myself while DH babysat. It was bliss! Did a bit of shopping (including getting new waterproofs for walking after almost drowning / freezing in a hailstorm last week) then went to a cafe and had a sarnie and latte while reading a book. God it was awesome!!! So think you do need to build in some you time too smile

Have just read that book French children don't throw food. (Guardian review here if you're interested). Found it genuinely fascinating - and may use some of it with our bean (author calls their daughter bean too which made it feel eerily close to home). Author does admit it's easier applying principles when you are living in France (specifically Paris) as most parents she observes there are doing the same things.

Angelico Sat 26-Jan-13 17:29:30

PS: is it just me or is it frequently more fun reading the comments after Guardian online articles than it is reading the actual article??? grin There's usually some kind of verbal knife fight going on... grin

hufflepuffle Sat 26-Jan-13 18:45:45

Livvy nice to see u back!

I entered world of BF quite nonchalantly and thought I'd give it a go and see what happened. V v quickly learned how well it suited baby and then educated myself as to benefits to make it bearable when was so difficult for me. I fully assumed I'd get better at it and I would return to work, express and feed and hey presto. Given my recent discovery and my continued discomfort I had a stern argument in my head last night about how much this is taking out of me and that I am soon returning to work. I know expressing will be tricky but until or even if I cure the cracks I cannot express regularly. I am giving myself this week to try to recover. If I do not feel significantly better by end of week I seriously need to consider swapping to ff. This is breaking my heart. I have come this far and he is doing so well and I am concerned about his massive appetite and formula. But I must must look at the bigger picture for me for the first time. A baby needs a healthy pain free mummy, no?

Gosh, you only asked a general question. I'm tumbling out an answer.

If I can get on top of this I intend to feed until 1 year to whatever degree feasible with full time work. If I can't I will begin to slowly change to formula within next fortnight.

FirstTimeForEverything Sat 26-Jan-13 19:34:32

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

smileyhappymummy Sat 26-Jan-13 19:51:00

We had a good night last night, so grateful! Settled at 9pm after an hour or so then slept other than a feed at midnight and then at 4am till 8am! Makes such a difference, really hope it lasts.
I fed dd1 till she was about 18 months and stopped on her own. Was a bit obsessive about it because I felt guilty that she'd had such a rubbish birth, then been in scbu and then needed some formula top ups. After she was 6 weeks or so and had picked up with weight gain she just had breast milk even on porridge etc. This was a real mistake in hindsight - loved feeding her but got too hung up about expressing enough for her to never need anything else and was even expressing when I spent a night away from home in a dismal hotel in Croydon stressed out of my brain because I was sitting the exam for end of GP training (costs £1500 to enter so really couldn't afford to fail!). I want to carry on feeding Melissa for as long as she wants too - am convinced of benefits for her and me but more importantly just love the snuggly happy time, especially as they get bigger and especially once back at work - just feels special. But I am not going to make myself miserable expressing obsessively this time - quite happy to do it but not 3 or 4 times a day on days off because I'm worried sbout her not having enough in the fridge for breakfast porridge!
Another long answer there, sorry!

smile4me Sat 26-Jan-13 20:06:26

grin grin grin firsttime

livvy BF going well for us now so am planning to keep going for a year or so. I'm thinking things will be a bit easier in a few months with not needing to feed quite so often (ie not every 2 hrs) so maybe popping out for the morning and leaving DD at home with DH might work. Not that I don't want to take her with me, but getting town jobs done is much quicker if I don't have to keep lugging her in and out of carseat! I'm heading away to a course in 3 months.... DH and DD will come too but hoping the need to feed so often will have abated a bit by then!

I think it's probably quite normal to still get upset about your rough labour londonmrs it was an incredibly intense time and you always have strong memories of very emotional periods. But I think squid's right, talking about it is probably the best thing you can do, even talking to DH is a start. And reading your notes if you have them. You probably haven't had a chance to really process everything as everything's been too raw and you've had DD filling up all your time! brew

YompingJo Sun 27-Jan-13 02:44:01

14 weeks yesterday and becoming downright difficult. Starting to resist everything, including turning head backwards and forwards and holding her lips firmly closed during night wakings so giving her the colief is a bloody battle. Volume and intensity of crying is often completely out of proportion to the thing she is crying about, and I know it's stupid but this is really pissing me off. It's like she knows how to push my buttons already... Feeding has become fussy and my boobs have started to feel empty, not sure if these two things are linked. End result of all this is that night feeds now feel like a battlefield, and while she ends up asleep, I end up totally worked up angry. Is it just me or is everything shit? <confused>.

hufflepuffle Sun 27-Jan-13 06:20:47

No doubt yomping, this is a pretty shitty patch. The nice bits are hard to find. However I keep telling self that this is Definately a developmental phase and all the babies seem to be having it. It will certainly absolutely pass. We can do it!

But who said the other day about a day off? Yes, 24 hrs would be bliss.........

hufflepuffle Sun 27-Jan-13 06:23:10

And I keep reminding myself of what you said when you started your book. This is nobody's 'fault', certainly not baby's fault or mine. It's just part of his growth and I have to deal with it


crazypaving Sun 27-Jan-13 08:37:52

yomping yeah it's another phase. in my experience, you get to a point where you feel like everything's on an even keel and you know what you're doing - once you're aware of feeling like that, beware because I find babies tend to shift up a gear at that point. each and every bloody time. the rough patches change though - with toddlers, for example, they seem to be behavioural <runs off to wring ds1's neck again>

ds2 has his 5th cold. he is simply a snot production factory. seriously, 5 colds in 16wks? where's the justice?! I am so sick of snuffly snory broken nights and clothes and boobs anointed perpetually with sticky snot angry

BoraBora Sun 27-Jan-13 10:15:20

A friend just announced the birth of her daughter on FB and I felt a fleeting moment of jealously! WTF is that about??

WantAnOrange Sun 27-Jan-13 10:30:19

Can I ask some advice that is non-baby related?

The other day I was talking to MIL about taking DS on holiday and commented that it is very hard to find affordable accomadtion where we want to go. This morning I recieved an e-mail asking if they could take DS on holiday for a long weekend to the exact place I was talking about. Now, I know that her intentions are very kind, and she wants to make sure DS gets his nice holiday, but I wanted a family holiday for DS (as in, just the 4 of us!) They have already paid for all of us to go for a weeks holiday in August and I feel this is already more than generous. Part of me is jealous that they would ge this lovely time with DS while DH, DD and I were sat at home and another part of me feels that I am totally inadequate uf I cant afford to take DS on holiday myself. I also feel uncomfortable having them spend so much money on him based on what was essentially a throw away comment. My family would never spend money on us like this and I feel that it is way OTT and inapropriate.

So, what do I do? Do I say yes and know that DS will have a lovely time but will miss out, or do I say no, that we would like to take him but run the risk that we couldnt afford it?

BoraBora Sun 27-Jan-13 10:37:22

Wantanorange - let me check I've got this right - you've got a son and a daughter and they're only offering to take your son?

WantAnOrange Sun 27-Jan-13 10:39:49

Yep. Although DD is breastfed and they are planning to go in the summer so she would still be very little. It comes accross that there are some favouritism issues from FIL although I give him the benefit of the doubt and think he may just be unsure around such a little one. DS is very close to his GP and has been their only GC for 6 years until DD came along.

crazypaving Sun 27-Jan-13 10:53:04

oh tricky one. in one way it is a kind offer but only really for your ds, and it's obviously not the family holiday you mere hoping for, unless you put it to her that the holiday was for your ds? I'd struggle with this. what does your dh reckon?

squidkid Sun 27-Jan-13 10:56:53

Mates over for the night + stayed up an hour too late (10.30pm! gasp) + new memory foam mattress (hate hate hate, is going back to shop) + boyfriend and mate discussing football in booming voices till 1am + giant poonami at 2am + tears + thrashing jess sleeping my arms as too tired to resettle in basket + leaving stupid memory foam mattress to sleep on the fucking floor = tired squid

Going out for lunch with mates, then my parents are coming. am going to give them jess and cry, fall asleep and have sex. Hopefully. not sure which order.

squidkid Sun 27-Jan-13 10:59:17

Bora no way! I think four friends have had babies since Jess (has been a crazy year for babies) and each time I feel smug that Jess is older, more settled and more interesting grin

squidkid Sun 27-Jan-13 11:01:50

wantanorange I would be sad and not want to do it unless it was a family thing. But explaining that might be a minefield. Not helpful, v braindead, sorry. But you are not being unreasonable, as they like to say on mumsnet...

WantAnOrange Sun 27-Jan-13 11:16:05

Hmm, I suppose I did put it that it was for DS's benefit but I meant that he would benefit from a holiday with his parents and siblings! I've been collecting vouchers from local newspaper that do cheap holidays but we are pretty limited as to where we can go. Oh I am worried that I am being really selfish but I can see things getting even more OTT if I dont nip this in the bud soon. I'm starting to feel like he isnt even mine anymore. sad

crazypaving Sun 27-Jan-13 12:00:16

orange put your foot down gently then. thank them kindly but let them know how much you were hoping to spend some quality time with ds. maybe be honest about how hard things are with new baby for your relationship with ds - I can totally relate. get your dh to back you up.

WantAnOrange Sun 27-Jan-13 12:27:41

I think you're right. I'm trying to write a reply that will convey both gratitude (because I know its a geninuelly kind offer) but makes it clear I dont want this! DH is being a nobber and not interested really.

I've started with:

Hello. Sorry I didnt get back to you yesturday, we were out all day and I didnt get a chance to get online. That's a really kind offer but [DH] and I would like to take [DS] on holiday ourselves, to get some time with him.

Its times like this that I really wish I was a grown up...

Londonmrss Sun 27-Jan-13 12:33:45

Wantan I'd feel a bit undermined I think- like 'you can't afford to, but we can' sort of thing. I'm sure that's not how it's meant, but I sometimes get treated like a poor relation in my family and I do find it a bit insulting.

I think maybe I would stress that as it's the first summer with the little one that you really are wanting to plan something for the whole family to do together but thank you, you're very kind etc etc. If you get on well with your in laws, could you suggest a weekend away for all of you?

my annoying baby wasn't hungry just now but sucked just looking enough for the milk to start flowing. Now my nipple is stuck in the on position and I'm just sitting here holding a towel over it till it stops spraying.

WantAnOrange Sun 27-Jan-13 12:38:14

London Thanks, we are all going away together for a week anyway and I know that if I suggest on a weekend away they'll insist on paying which just makes me cringe but I like the idea of explaining that it is because it's our first summer together.

Had to laugh at milk spraying. DD tends to suck for a minute to get the let down, pull off, wait for it to squirt everywhere then go back on again. hmm

crazypaving Sun 27-Jan-13 13:00:37

orange I regularly wonder when I'm going to feel like a grown-up too!!! good luck with it. hope they understand. sorry your dh isn't helping sad

Londonmrs ds2 does that frequently. drives me mad. thank god for Lansinoh breastpads!

squidkid Sun 27-Jan-13 13:02:36

Londonmrs snap my baby just did the same - in a restaurant. She was like, ooh milk, oooh fuck that far more interesting things going on around me. A large 60th birthday party group adjacent to our table were all cooing at her while this happened. I am beyond embarrassment these days.

WantAnOrange Sun 27-Jan-13 13:03:35

Sent the e-mail. Thanks for your help.

squidkid Sun 27-Jan-13 14:32:49

So. Um. A cuddle got a bit carried away... someone who co-sleeps please tell me you've had sex when the baby is there, they are way too young to understand right confused.... BAD MUMMY!!!

turnwest Sun 27-Jan-13 15:21:03

bora my brother and sister in law had their first baby this week, went round for a cuddle of this teeny tiny beautiful baby boy and felt very jealous, I really don't know why either, I can barely cope with two children never mind two!

hufflepuffle Sun 27-Jan-13 15:45:32

FFS. Do all your boobs let Down and spray like that?? I'm sitting here expressing on a v full boob. Been half an hour, got less tha 3 oz. Drip drip bloody feckin drip. DS has just happily gobbled 6 oz formula for us to be sure he will still take medela teat and won't freak at formula. No bother there greedy little sod So here I am with this feckin full milker......

hufflepuffle Sun 27-Jan-13 15:48:40

This is on my good side, lol! Half hour expressing dodgy side might cause irreversible damage!!!!

Londonmrss Sun 27-Jan-13 16:06:03

huffle some days my tits are just speaking right left and centre and I have to wake up and pump a couple of times in the night. other times they feel fairly normal. doesn't help that some days I have a monster feeder and some days she hardly wants anything. means my supply never gets a chance to settle and frankly it's making me quite miserable.

squid I've had sex in the same room, but not in the same bed... I feel fairly certain they won't be traumatised by it. how was it? all healed now?

Londonmrss Sun 27-Jan-13 16:07:11

think I meant spraying. they rarely speak.

BoraBora Sun 27-Jan-13 16:28:49

Squid - yes, we DTD with DD there yesterday. She was in her side car and wasn't bothered. The sound of the Lamaze toys I'd shoved in to keep her entertained were a little distracting though smileI can assure you she was completely unaware. My child stares at her own hands in amazement. I don't think this is an issue wink

Woolybob Sun 27-Jan-13 16:29:31

grin @ chatty boobs!

Mine have never sprayed anyone, feel a bit left out! Never had to use breast pads thou - on flip side if I pump I'm lucky to get an oz.

Baby wooly turned into ultimate cling monster, usually happy to be held but anyone but at family lunch yesterday just cried and cried (with proper little sticky out bottom lip) if anyone except dh or I picked her up. Swimming today also tearfest...sad

We are right under the big black cloud on my wonder weeks chart....the only way is up right! and then back down again in a few weeks but let's not think about that yet

hufflepuffle Sun 27-Jan-13 16:31:02

Mine rarely speak to each other too, London. Think of they did they might share ideas and work a bit better??!

Why are men so stupid? DH taking DS for a walk to help him sleep. This has been talked about for nearly 45 mins since I said he is starting to get tired. Cup of coffee. Check news on iPad. Phone someone. Meantime I'm putting DS in pram, despite fecked back. DS screaming with tiredness. Mummy unable to lift and cuddle.

"any chance of this walk?"
"give me a smile, I know your back is sore "
"he is getting way beyond tired now, this is not what we are trying to do"
"och mummy, don't be cross, try and smile"

I'll fucking smile for you you fuckwit.

So they're away for a walk, screaming baby. Would hav been better to hav a happy awake baby gently nodding off after a bit of a nosy about, no?

Off to try the expressing again now that I'm so relaxed confused

hufflepuffle Sun 27-Jan-13 17:27:56

Over 6oz formula in this experiment. Wouldn't u think that might fill DS up for while? Not 2 hrs later he is back on boob. How much does he actually bloody take?? I've not a mission expressing for this boy.

OctoberOctober Sun 27-Jan-13 17:29:22

Moan alert...

Been in a bad mood all day with dp. Fed up with clearing up after her all day, as if 2 children weren't enough - if I have to put away one more bloody pair of shoes, never mind the 3 bags of sports kits that seem to be a permanent feature of the living room...

Orenishii Sun 27-Jan-13 17:40:24

Hi everyone! DH has been away this weekend - still is - and I was babysat by MiL. I'm very grouchy, DS is very grouchy and I think on reflection, having had help all weekend now just makes me feel all unsure about what to do with DS next - like I've lost all confidence again. Parenting is so annoying.

Can't say very much as DS is quite grouchy and have been typing this since this morning but

- have had a revelation about sleeping issues that involves hot water bottles and pretending the bedroom is a mud hut. The hot water bottle is mostly about how he'd wake up when i put him in his basket or cot from my arms - the change in temp was waking him up so it's been a revelation to put him down asleep and he stays asleep! I bet y'all worked this out ages ago..i can be quite dense.

- we DTD last week (it hurt) and Friday (it was better) and in the throes of passion, DH suggested another baby shockshockshockshockshockshock

- babies turning the nipple tap on and then wandering off is hilarious!

- want well done on the email

-squid we did plenty of non-deed stuff with ds next to us before we managed to actually DTD - sure it's totally fine!

Londonmrss Sun 27-Jan-13 17:45:41

October I have similar moans- on slightly relieved to learn that women are no better than men!

BoraBora Sun 27-Jan-13 18:54:29

Right. I'm going to seriously start losing some weight. For those that know and care about these things, does 1600 calories seem reasonable?

Orenishii Sun 27-Jan-13 18:57:58

I don't know if it's a good idea to diet while bfing...? Certainly not just eat cake all the time like me but I don't think dieting is a good idea.

Mind you, I've cut out bread again since a mad day where I ate nothing but so maybe that would help?

Orenishii Sun 27-Jan-13 19:13:02

DS has slept from 6.30/7 two evenings running. Is this normal? Am I wrecking my accidentally imposed self-settling routine at 11? Fucking sleep causes me nothing but gip!

Orenishii Sun 27-Jan-13 19:18:34

Sorry, that's not meant to be a stealth boast - I know some of you are having sleep issues on the other side, and I am positive it will all go tits up anyway, it's just right now i am home alone all night, DH has been away since Friday and I am nervous. The evening/night is stretching ahead of me like a great big gaping abyss.

Londonmrss Sun 27-Jan-13 19:25:37

bora that isn't really enough calories... Please try not to get obsessed. I know you've been there before and I have too. Your body is not just yours now and I know it can feel like an all or nothing situation (massive cut in calories, shit load of exercise, feeling guilty when you don't meet your own standards etc... or the opposite- not giving a shit, not looking after yourself, not bothering to think about it) but you have to keep healthy. I'm trying to make my goal being healthy rather than being thin, but it's really hard.

I've just put LO to bed. Tonight is a test. Usually she goes down at 9.30pm (not sure if that's a reasonable time for a baby to go to sleep) and sleeps til 4 or 5am, has a small feed then sleeps til 7-ish. She's been a disaster feeder today refusing most feeds and screaming through the ones she did take. I'm knackered and want some time with my husband. So she's in bed now in the next room and I'm going to try a dream feed around 10pm. Probably won't work, but worth a try. Will report back tomorrow.

Orenishii Sun 27-Jan-13 19:35:28

bora please listen to london, she is right.

london hope this approach with LO works out. I've been thinking of doing something similar but struggled with how to make it jive with our AP style. Turns out even tribal women need evenings with their other halves and put their babies down in the hut, and then go hang out by the fire so will take that approach.

hufflepuffle Sun 27-Jan-13 19:40:22

Worth a try London. We did earlier time on Friday night and was officially worst night ever...... But I think that was coincidence. I agree that it seems a much more realistic bedtime.

On that note Oren, glad to hear he is settling earlier, go with it! And yes, we used hot bottle up to abou 6 weeks. Works well to transfer.

Bora, that is not enough calories for u pet. Change habits by all means but u burn up to 500 calories a day to bf I think. Need to keep yourself healthy.

crazypaving Sun 27-Jan-13 19:43:08

Londonmrs I'm with you on the supply issue. Some days DS2 doesn't want to feed at all, other days he seems pretty hungry. My boobs don't chat either but they are pretty confused.

orenishii since DS2 has finally started going down earlier, he is waking earlier. Apparently now 4am is an acceptable time to wake up. He then needs a nap around 6.30am. This is so completely crap and I have no idea how to fix it, help me someone?!! I can't keep him awake any later, he literally passes out at 7pm.

I'm so tired I am literally existing on chocolate. I so want to lose weight but when I'm this tired all I want is chocolate. Arrrrrrrrgggghhhhh

Orenishii Sun 27-Jan-13 19:50:45

Why can't babies just come with a bloody manual!

DS would sleep a few hours of an evening - a couple hours here, another there, but not like these last few night of sleeping from 6.30/7 until a feed around 11. God, WTF am I even whinging about! DH isn't back until tomorrow and it's unsettling.

Anyway crazy do you think his circadian rhythm is a bit messy, thinking it's much later in the morning than it is?

YompingJo Sun 27-Jan-13 19:53:00

Wow, argument city chez the October Bean Bakers... same here. Think we have a bit of an issue. I have a problem with the way DH can let mini yomping cry (and I mean really cry, not just grizzle. Purple face, tears flowing, panicked high pitched, distraught crying) while he is holding her, feeding her, changing her. He doesn't try to comfort her, just ignores it (sometimes for 5 mins) and just gets on with nappy change or whatever he is doing. I don't think it does her any good to cry like that and I think he is being an utterly unkind, uncompassionate bastard too unfeeling and not responding enough to her needs. I was going to go out tonight for a couple of hours but after watching him take ages over nappy change while she shrieked and he just ignored her, I've changed my mind. I can't bear the right of that going on and me not being there to comfort her. I intervened during the nappy change and took her from him. I know this totally undermined him but I often find myself faced with the choice of comforting her but undermining him, or letting him carry on but feeling desperately upset because she is crying and it is being ignored. I know I'm not very rational about it and a bit of crying won't do her long term harm but it's more that Idon't age with his approach and I'm not sure what to do about it (we have discussed it but not got anywhere). He just doesn't appear to feel the need to comfort her and I feel that this is unkind. He admits he goes into "engineer mode" when she cries, and just tries to get whatever he is doing done quickly. I don't feel that's the right thing to do because she suffers and gets totally worked up, the crying hurts her throat, she feels stressed and panicked... how can someone not respond that? He is fab in loads ways but this is a real difference of opinion. So where do we go from here?

October, that would drive me mad too!

Huffle, why can't men do anything quickly??

Orange, think you are doing the right thing in declining holiday offer. How odd of them to make the offer, did they not consider how it might make you feel?

Londonmrss Sun 27-Jan-13 21:08:17

Great. I just had sex. And then I cried. I mean, immediately. He was still inside me for god's sake. And I don't mean crying in a good way. I am mortified.

It's just that I can't come. Sorry to be so blunt but I used to be able to come at the drop of a hat so to speak. My body still feels totally unfamiliar and sore and I feel really tense and self-aware. I have absolutely no sex drive.
I do fancy my husband- he's so beautiful and he's properly amazing in bed. But it's all just doing nothing for me. I've never felt sexually insecure in my adult life, and certainly not with him, but I feel like a teenager.

Christ, I have cried more in this last few months than I have in my whole life. Am I going to be this emotional forever? can I blame all this on breastfeeding?

Ugh. Sorry if I've shared too much. I miss my mojo. I'm so scared I'll never feel the same again.

BoraBora Sun 27-Jan-13 21:29:13

Good job I asked - i thought that was being generous. Okay. Ill try and recalibrate my thinking.

Orenishii Sun 27-Jan-13 21:48:03

london heavens lovely, that all sounds completely normal! We put so much pressure on ourselves - to be great mothers, to be great partners, to be physically perfect after birth - if we're honest, we do. Some people find it easier, some don't. I for one am completely shocked at the effect giving birth has had on my body and my emotional state. I was completely earth-Motherish before, climbing trees, being paleo, thinking all it needed was to be healthy and employ positive thinking. But fuck me!

Do not - do not - continue to question yourself in this way smile I was like you - could orgasm at the mere thought of it. I haven't since giving birth - I hope to but I can't even fathom it right now. I want to be close to my husband but I feel deeply unsexy, over weight in a way I haven't been since I was a teenager, frail, worried about future DCs, and every day I find new ways to feel like I am letting DS and DH down.

It is a complete uphill struggle in so many ways but I firmly believe you, me, all of us will feel right as rain soon enough. Let your husband be your husband be close to you and look after you smile

Orenishii Sun 27-Jan-13 21:54:08

yomping i would be the same. I try to tell myself it's ok if i am trying to console a screaming ds and i can't but not ok if i can comfort him but don't. but sometimes i do get locked into this way of thinking that if i can just get his baby gro on, I can feed him and he'll stop crying. when really i should just fuck the baby gro and feed him asap. so even though i agree with you, i can't always employ it. it's hard but maybe just tell your dh it's not cool, that he stress levels will go up and up and if he's got her at least cleaned up - could he not give her a cuddle, calm her down and then continue?

bloody caps lock isn't working!

BoraBora Sun 27-Jan-13 21:54:16

Oh, London, my love!! I really think its BF and the rock bottom oestrogen. I think it makes such a huge difference and when DD starts weaning it will improve.

Did you/ have you felt able to talk to your DH about how you're feeling and the concerns you have?

BoraBora Sun 27-Jan-13 21:55:10

And like a teenager is exactly how I describe my emotional state. Again, I'm blaming hormones being out of balance.

Olivess Sun 27-Jan-13 22:04:23

yomping I think this is so hard - I really feel for you. DH and I have had the odd altercation as well. It's really hard living with someone else let alone living together and bringing up a little one together. I don't think there's anything you can do except keep the communication going. DH and I don't function well when we stop communicating and it's even harder at the moment of course. That's not much help sorry - baby brain!

funchum8am Mon 28-Jan-13 04:09:58

crazy we have had to move bedtime from 7 to 8.30 to try and get beyond the 4am start each day. first waking has moved from 12:30 to 1:30 (no dream feed) and she still wakes 2 or 3 times but is now up around 5.15 with nap around 7:30. Still deadly but better than before sad .

To keep her awake I am now stopping her having a huuuuge nap in the afternoon and letting her have a shorter one every 90 mins to 2 hours. Also stripping her to just a body suit helps, and bathing. I used to think she would never stay awake after 6 but she now properly wakes if we give her long enough and make sure she is not too warm.

I realise this all probably sounds really mean but I honestly think it preferable to the risks caused by me being sleep deprived as badly as I was when she began the day at 4!

hufflepuffle Mon 28-Jan-13 05:49:37

London you poor thing. I agree with others. It will return in time. Don't best yourself up. And I know what you mean about tears, isn't it mad? Thu j I've had 4 episodes this weekend. All just so fucking hard.

Yomping I agree. How hard is it to show a bit of emotion when baby obviously upset? I can carry on with grizzling but I cannot ignore proper crying for sake of bloody dressing or similar! But isn't that a mummy thing? Their cries effect us so much more? My DH can tolerate more crying than me but to be fair he wont let it get to the purple face stage. One thing I suppose we have to accept is that as a couple we will all do things slightly differently even tho we will technically agree a shared philosophy. Like most things a calm conversation will probably help (as opposed to my version of communication which is usually an emotional accusatory shout whilst holding said crying baby..... blush )

2 v short night feeds. See, is he really hungry or just needing fed back to sleep????? Damn articles......

hufflepuffle Mon 28-Jan-13 05:57:41

Funchum I don't see problem in gentle persuasion. It's all about doing the best for them. Sometimes I think we need to remind self of this. I have a nephew who was poorly when born with a bowel problem. He had stoma bag fitted. Had to have physical manipulation of bowel opening multiple times a day. This affected how they parented, naturally. Caused lots of discomfort and crying. Baby is now a healthy beloved happy 7 yr old who loves mummy and daddy so much.

Totally off piste there........

But sometimes I think we need to look at bigger picture. Being 'unkind' Is something none of us will ever do to our babies. Everything we do is for their own good.

Rambling. Good night. Or morning, or whatever the hell it is.

hufflepuffle Mon 28-Jan-13 07:50:25

Morning! Now im slightly more awake, those last 2 posts seem contradictory. I can't let baby cry either but just because they have to cry when certain things happen, doesn't mean we are being cruel......

I am sure you all catch my drift.

I used to be more eloquent with the written word. Now I have to bank in you catching my bloody drift....... Where has my Brain gone?

Rhythm and rhyme class at a different library today. Was supposed to go to one on Thursday but discovered that needed to book a place day before and this made me cry.... (tears, anyone?!) Oh I can't wait until I can look back and laugh!

Woolybob Mon 28-Jan-13 08:42:45

Know exactly what you mean huffle, for example I'm taking baby wooly for jabs on thurs, there will ve much upset but it's happening anyway!

Don't think you are being cruel funchum I'd wouldn't want dd sleeping past 2hrs in the day (this has only ever been an issue about twice!) and yes noone wants an overtired stressed out mummy if poss!

Sorry to read about your dh yomping, I'm sure in his head it makes sense to just get the job done but an explaination of how much it upsets you will surely help. We are not big fans of putting on our pramsuit here and it is a dilemma, without some protesting we'd never leave the house but yes purple face a bit far! Sorry rambling!

Anyway dd only woke twice in night hurrah! Second time was awake making lots of squeaks but happy ones so left it a while to see if re-settled, Got up thou, hard as she's keeping me awake anyway and may wake dh who has work so may as well get up and feed her? Might try leaving a bit longer thou at weekend. Think we will all sleep better when she's in own room and I can't hear every squeak!

Beccus Mon 28-Jan-13 08:49:39

oh london - labor is gruelling & it will take time to recover mentally & physically. would some fun alone help, maybe? we have had some sexy fun but have not dtd yet. it almost happened last weekend until we rememebered we had no contraception yet....and what a turn off the thought of getting pregnant was!!
livvy, re b/f, i am in no rush to stop basically because i am lazy...& fat smile whipping my boobs out is far less effort than puree, & hopefully i will experience weight loss like squid has & elpis did. once she is about 6 months or older, can sit up, has the required hand control & shows interest is when i would start introducing food.

Beccus Mon 28-Jan-13 08:53:28

funchum, u r not being cruel, u r doing what u need to do to survive!! agree that u cannot parent properly in the midst of chronic sleep deprivation & u.need to do what u can to function at an acceptable level. yomping, that's tough. agree with huffle that a chat is needed

Olivess Mon 28-Jan-13 10:19:16

I'm literally exhausted. We've had 4 weeks now of shitty sleep - no more than 2/3 hours at a time and many nights of DD waking every hour. Last night she couldn't settle, she was awake about 6 times (I lost count after a while). I probably got about 4/5 hours broken into 1 or 2 hour chunks. I feel like I really can't function today.

We had some friends stay at the weekend who have a 1 year old and they spent their whole time giving us advice (basically making me feel like a shit mum who has made loads of mistakes resulting in crappy sleep) - 'don't you use a dummy?' 'Hasn't she got a comforter?' ' do you wind her properly?' 'Will she not just fall asleep by herself?' 'Make sure she's awake at 7 every morning' Etc etc. This all got too much when my friend left saying 'you've got to sort it out otherwise you'll make a rod for your own back!'

Now feel shattered and completely demoralised. I cannot work out why DD isn't sleeping. She naps really well in the day, we have a loose routine, bedtime routine etc...Just don't know what to do. DH is not particularly sympathetic. He has his own business and is very very busy working. My mum hasn't been over to help in ages - she works part-time and is always out with friends for coffee/looking after my niece and nephew in her spare time.

Just tired and upset and need some sleep. Driving myself crazy trying to work out what the problem is.

Londonmrss Mon 28-Jan-13 11:00:59

oh dear olivess, that feeling of total exhaustion is absolute killer. we had many weeks like that and the thing which kept me going was my mum spending one night a week here. I would leave her with dd and lots of milk and I would get just that one good night's sleep.

I don't know of this will be helpful or not... but my baby just started sleeping better spontaneously. It just happened when she was ready. Sometimes she regresses to waking every 2 hours and I can't work out why because I haven't done anything different. So I can only conclude that they just sleep through when they're ready. When they do, its not because you've done something right. And when they don't, it's not because you've done something wrong. They just do these things stubborn little bastards.

Are you able to nap during the day or is that not an option?

hufflepuffle Mon 28-Jan-13 11:08:37

Gawd Olivess. Nothing like smug friends. Well their baby is only 1. Plenty of time for things to go tits up there. (hope that makes u giggle a little devilishly.....!)

That is crap for you. Our sleep patterns are unpredictable at best. Nights back now to 2 wakings but I'm assuming nothing. Unlike your 'friends' can we assume you have tried dummy, winded etc? I really can offer you NI other advice, especially as she sleeping well in day. Only, is she sleeping too much in day? I know that's not really possible, but worth asking. Is she warm enough? Too warm? Our little DS can't settle if he too warm. Is there a draught? Try night light instead of darkness and visa versa? Is your basket close enough to pat her tummy when she wakes?

I don't know. Think we all realised by now that so much of this is chance.

Slightly better here. Glad to read all your advice on 90-120 min gap between sleeps. I've been watching clock and baby carefully and getting him down after about 90 mins, then he sleeps within about 15. Avoiding the godforsaken swing by putting him in pushchair ( which he delighted with even awake) and pushing up and down til he sleeps. Not perfect solution but is major progress. Have not had the screaming tiredness for few days. Is this maybe helping him at night now?

But as we know, a few days does not a change make.

Good luck Olivess. Hopefully someone has been where u are before and can offer non smug constructive advice.


Orenishii Mon 28-Jan-13 11:13:19

Oh olivess it sounds like you're not getting much support from anyone! I'm sure you've tried all manner of things but for us co sleeping really seems to comfort ds. I could never get him to self settle any time except when I lie him next to me - it's like the physical proximity helps?

Poor you sad It will get better! Don't give your friends a second thought. I'm sure they didn't mean to be so condescending and would be horrified if they knew they'd made you feel like a shot mum - which you're not by the way!!! At this point I would do whatever it takes to get her to sleep and fick this concept of rods and backs. I don't believe that at all and while I do think babies need routines for the structure because maybe their little lives seem chaotic to them right now, whatever that structure is is entirely down to you. The No Cry Sleep Solution is awesome for implementing longer term solutions but in the meantime I would do whatever makes it work. Hot water bottles are a freakin revelation for me - cuddling ds to sleep and recreating my warmth in his basket. I also use lavender in his bath and have a chamomile oil burner that while doesn't help sleep certainly seems to relax him.

And if nothing works and it's just something she grows out of, know that it will pass and that you are a fantastic mum. Don't let others grind you down. My Dh being self employed said virtually the same to me - he needed to concentrate and be fit for work do I had to be the one taking it for the team sleeplessness wise. It sucks, it's isolating but I just began to accept it which made it easier to deal with.

Olivess Mon 28-Jan-13 11:26:26

Thanks everyone. I've tried lots of things - she doesn't like a dummy, white noise not very successful, I tried expressing quite late and can't get much out at the best of times and she won't take a bottle either. I've experimented with naps - waking her up after 2 hours at lunchtime or sometimes letting her go longer/shorter - the length of nap doesn't seem to make a difference.

The thing is she likes being held. The first month she was unputdownable so we started co-sleeping which is fine. She likes being near me like you said -oreniishi and can self-settle in bed with my arm around her. Thing is I like a bit of space and really wanted a bit of my bed back. I do still bring her in with me once it gets to 4/5am.

She's currently sleeping on me in bed, I had a little sleep as well then put her down next to me and she screamed, picked her up and she's fast asleep again! Velcro baby!

Orenishii Mon 28-Jan-13 11:35:06

Honestly the hot water bottle really helped me put down my Velcro baby! The heat keeps him asleep.

hufflepuffle Mon 28-Jan-13 11:38:35

Are u doing baby massage Olivess? I'm making a real effort to have more chilled evenings. After hour dinner DS has massage and story and skin time on mummy and daddy. He really is quite chilled thru all this! Then has bath and then in to our bedroom.

All those articles we've seen over past week hav been controversial among us, but the part about baby needing fed to sleep and then needing that each time they waken has made me think. It's hard cos they are still small and ??? When hungry or just waking?? But I am trying to keep that in mind going forward. I love the last feed when he goes to sleep but ?? if that is too strong a sleep association going forward? That's why I'm slowly introducing a comforter.

hufflepuffle Mon 28-Jan-13 11:40:19

Hour dinner??? If only!! Our dinner!

Londonmrss Mon 28-Jan-13 11:43:06

it sounds like you're doing everything right and for now she just needs to be near you. this too shall pass...

my baby's 'I'm working really hard on pushing out a massive poo' face and collection of grunts has been making me laugh for the last 10 minutes.

thank you for your comfort about my sex meltdown yesterday. I was honest with DH because he thought he'd made me cry so I told him that it was just the fact that I don't feel like myself and my sex drive has gone and things just don't feel the same. I know I just need time after my body went through so much (and I didn't even need stitches or anything).

sex is also giving me a bit of a nightmare because my periods came back at 6 weeks but they've never been regular (even before pregnancy). I'm on the mini pill but have just had to do a just-in-case pregnancy test. negative, thank fuck. I'm just wondering how often I'll have to do this with my stupid cycle...

right, better sort this poo out.

Olivess Mon 28-Jan-13 11:54:44

Doing massage before bed, quiet change into sleepsuit, cuddle with daddy, then final feed in bed before being put in cot. Have made it very calm, have also just started introducing comforter. The problem isn't so much getting to sleep - it's staying asleep. huffle I was also worried about association of feeding to sleep so now only feed at night when it's been over 3 hours since last feed. The rest of the wake ups I'm just comforting her back to sleep.

Does this sound like teething - twice now she has woken up screaming and is pacified only by me putting my finger in her mouth which she chomps down on then falls asleep!

Olivess Mon 28-Jan-13 11:55:46

oreniishi we were doing hot water bottle but for some reason not in the last week. Will start again, thanks for the reminder.

hufflepuffle Mon 28-Jan-13 11:56:59

Sorry Olivess, I'm risking being a pain here......

Have you tried laying her down on your dressing gown?? When DH being particularly clingy and wont let me put him asleep on sofa or bed I put mu dressy down first as a blanket. I also put my vest in basket at start. But not now he can grab things.

Olivess Mon 28-Jan-13 12:08:35

huffle you're not being pain! Was just thinking same thing, I'm wearing my dressing gown which she is very snuggly on. Not sure I can get it off though to put her down on it at the moment! But this might work, although is it not dangerous to do this at night with SIDs etc...

Elpis Mon 28-Jan-13 12:23:17


Looking for a bit of reassurance here. You know about me and my rubbish silent migraines. But I am really struggling now. Can't concentrate, head feels as though it's stuffed with cotton wool, no appetite (though I lose my appetite when stressed about anything), vaguely lightheaded.

Is this sleep deprivation? Last night pretty typical - DD didn't get off to sleep until 11 due to excitement of sparkly Eiffel Tower visible from window, I slept soon afterwards. DS woke for snacks about every hour from 1.30 onwards but we are sharing a bed so I just had to latch him on and drop off again. Woke properly at 7.45. So total amount of sleep not bad but regularly interrupted. No rest during day because of DD. is this what's killing me? Trying to drink more water today in case I'm dehydrated.

Also fretting about job, of course. But small beer compared to feeling of pushing brain through bog.

Elpis Mon 28-Jan-13 12:31:29

Olivess - we must be in the same place! Do you have brain fogbog too? I feel I can manage anything as long as I know it's not the MS. But nothing physical going on there.

Beccus - DS four months now and the weight is coming off again. Now somewhere between sizes 10 and 12. I was a 12 pre-children and a 10 after DD. so hang in there and don't deprive yourself of calories when you need them to make milk. My advice would be to try to snack on vaguely nutritious stuff if you can stock up on it - by which I mean tasty sandwiches, nuts, dried fruit etc rather than my weaknesses of cake, crisps and chocolate. x

Elpis Mon 28-Jan-13 12:46:31

Orenishii - same with my DH. It was a condition of our having a second child that I do all the nights. So I have.

He has to go to Singapore, New York and DC during Feb. and of course the in-laws are off to Florida for some 'much-needed sun'. How am I going to cope? confused

Olivess Mon 28-Jan-13 15:48:55

elpis think we probably are feeling the same. After a particularly bad night I feel very foggy-headed and often have a headache. Feel significantly better after some fresh air (despite the driving wind/rain today). My DH is going to Seattle next week so I'm with you there as well. Except you have 2 children so massive respect to you. Don't know how you have the energy.

crazypaving Mon 28-Jan-13 16:01:39

olive am cross with your friend on your behalf angry by all means try whatever you can to improve things but be aware that some babies are just shit sleepers. it's the luck of the draw imo and it will get better. the struggle through the tiredness is bloody awful though, you have my sympathy.

elpis are you worried you may be ill or having ms symptoms? I never lose my appetite so can't comment there but light-headedness etc all sound like tiredness to me. hope your managing to enjoy your time away. and sympathy on the dh and pil thing. I'm very lucky that dh is making every effort to avoid travel. but ds1's childminder is away for 4 weeks soon and I am officially terrified sad

anyone noticed how enormous m&s babygros are? ds2 is long in most but drowns in these! loads of growing room, fab.

thank you for thoughts on sleep funch and orenishii. the trouble with having a ds1 around is that ds2 doesn't tend to get any sleep after ds1's nap, so is awake from about 2.30pm. by ds1's bedtime he is past it and just has to sleep. I try to get him to nap, but apparently ds1 is just too damn exciting. it's only getting worse is ds2 gets older and nosier.

16wks seems to be a growth spurt chez babypaving. feeding like a right little piggy which makes me very happy! I'm so tired though. I've eaten an obscene amount of chocolate this week. hate myself for it, why do I have no self control? or self respect for that matter sad trying to check abdominal muscles to see if there's much of a gap but I honestly can't find them. bloody hell sad

crazypaving Mon 28-Jan-13 16:06:27

just re-read that post and sounds rather sanctimonious with loads of typos. I give up hmm sorry all

Londonmrss Mon 28-Jan-13 16:11:17

crazy I've noticed that about m and s... mothercare ones too. the 0-3 months are still far too big for my baby and she's 3 months old and on the 75th centile! I washed then a couple of times to shrink them a bit.

Smorgs Mon 28-Jan-13 17:15:24

crazy funch elpis and olivess and anyone else suffering, massive sympathies on the lack of sleep. Last night was epic for us, and not in a good way. Managed to put him down awake and he nodded off. Felt very smug. Ha, that'll learn me. He woke up at midnight and fed, on and off, until almost 3am!!! Would not be put down or comforted. Then woke up every hour, fed for 40 minutes, slept for 20 minutes, then up again for another feed. He was grouchy all morning and wouldn't be put down for more than 5 minutes. Tried to get him to nap but he only had two 15 minute naps (I'm aware this is good for some but not normal for us). Took him out in buggy and he has been sleeping since about 3.30 - almost two and a half hours. This was good as the neighbour who was meant to visit on Friday came round today instead so meant I could chat. It was great actually, despite being sleep deprived, as she is a former Guardian journalist and could offer lots of advice on going freelance. It was nice to know someone else is out here and making it work as a freelance... anyway I'm rambling.

londonmrss Try not to get too worried about things. It's still really early days and our bodies are programmed to not want to reproduce again yet, so I think what you are going through is completely normal. I don't think anyone who has given birth in the last few months has a great sex life yet. It will take a while but it will come back, but I imagine only if you are feeling relaxed and not stressing about it too much.

yomping I am the worst person to give advice, because I can emit pure venom in the heat of the moment towards my poor long-suffering DH, but when you both have a quiet moment maybe you could mention to yours how it makes you feel, and what you are scared of your DD feeling, when he lets her cry? I'm sure no harm will come to her in the long-run but if he knows how much it means to you to not let her cry too hard, then he might change? (I realise how ridiculous a concept 'a quiet moment' is right now)

elpis I actually hallucinated a few weeks back when sleep deprivation was really kicking in. It sounds like what you describe is normal. I definitely think drinking lots of water helps, I was getting really light-headed a while back and now I'm making sure I fill up two 1.5litre bottles of water at the beginning of the day and make sure I finish them by then end. Hope you are enjoying Paris!

My birthday weekend was great. Friends turned up on Friday night bearing enormous chocolate cake (really, really banking on breastfeeding weightloss kicking in soon - my arse is now the size of Alaska) then DH took Smorglet for the day on Saturday so I could meet a friend for lunch and a spot of shopping (I couldn't face trying on anything, I bought a nice body cream instead) and another friend cooked us lunch on Sunday. She was our neighbour when we lived in the centre of town. It was weird being back again, I really loved that apartment. It was a proper old 17th century French building in quite a smart part of town and I felt very glamourous living there, but it was not practical with a baby. Still, it'll be nice to take him back there one day and show him where he was started.

It's a year since I found out I was pregnant too, and almost a year since I joined the ante-natal thread. Does anyone still have a link to the old threads? I'd love to read back and see what insignificant shit I was worrying about back then....

Elpis Mon 28-Jan-13 17:18:53

Ah, smorgs, former Guardian journalist? I think you just described my future... Might as well out myself now my job has gone down the tube.

[wallows like an old hippo]

Elpis Mon 28-Jan-13 17:25:43

Thank you for writing such reassuring things. smile On Eurostar home. DD has iPad and DS sleeping. grin

BoraBora Mon 28-Jan-13 17:28:53

elpis. What cunts. Shan't buy Guardian in protest.

Elpis Mon 28-Jan-13 17:32:45

Thanks BoraBora. But tbh that's been the problem. wink Anyway, one of the Munsnet founders is married to the G's deputy editor so I'm going to have to be tactful from now on. smile

Elpis Mon 28-Jan-13 17:37:07

PS love the line about 'what insignificant shit I was worrying about back then'!

BoraBora Mon 28-Jan-13 17:37:39


Sod 'em. We'll find you a new job. A much better one.

hufflepuffle Mon 28-Jan-13 19:01:26

I second the hilarity to 'what insignificant shit u was worrying about then'!!!!! Ah, so naive we were..........

Bless u all 2nd timers for letting us! X

londonlivvy Mon 28-Jan-13 19:32:17

Hilarious smorgs indeed re insignificant shit.

Terrible terrible night last night here too. Fed only briefly at 10pm, woke at 1, then 330 and wouldn't feed, wouldn't settle, so like a mug I tried her in my bed. Bad idea. She dozed briefly til 5 then fed again then wouldn't sleep. Hideous. I took her up to DF at 6, in floods of tears and told him its his child too and he needs to help. I then dozed for about 20 mins but too overtired and headachy to sleep. Sigh.

My cousin recommended a book (silent nights). She is a child psychologist so reasonably knowledgeable etc. the book basically seems to focus on how to settle babies who won't settle at bedtime (which fortunately isn't our problem) and the advice for babies that wake in the night is (basically) ignore it, they'll give up. And they're learning good sleep skills, etc etc. it should, in theory, only take two weeks of listening to howling for a permanent effect to be achieved. Now in my hideously sleep deprived state with headache, cotton wool brain, endless tears etc, I confess that I really really want dd to sleep through. She is 12 weeks old and gaining weight fast and not in any danger of starvation. She has made it through from 11pm to six am twice. So does not need to eat in the night. But the thought of just ignoring her for up to 30 mins in 10 min bursts seems heart breakingly harsh. But is it good for her, and me, long term, that she learn how to settle herself?

How long do you leave your child before you respond to the cries?

I also bought the no cry sleep solution but haven't read it yet.

Advice please ladies. It's been going on too long now and I just can cope.

BoraBora Mon 28-Jan-13 19:45:01

Liv sorry to put extra pressure on but I'm a psychologist and we would never ever advocate leaving a child to cry. It's true that babies will stop crying if you leave them long enough, but it's not because they've learned good sleep skills it's because they've learned that no one comes when they do. It can have an impact on Attachement and it will make you both feel shit.

I really know how hard it is when you're so tired but read the No Cry solution.

Sending hugs.

BoraBora Mon 28-Jan-13 19:46:07

I should add, leaving them to cry on occasion is totally fine and will save your sanity - but systematically doing it is not helpful long term.

squidkid Mon 28-Jan-13 20:07:49

Oh livvy sad

I wish I had solutions, it's such hard work, and NOTHING you're doing wrong, babies are just really hard work sometimes...
What about the maternity nurse you had for a bit a while back? Could you get her back for a couple of nights? Potentially to help with her experience, but even just to give you a couple night's sleep so you can think straight? I find it impossible to think straight when seriously sleep deprived.

bora said summat about dieting. Don't do it, chick. Not worth it if you've had obsessive problems with food before. What I do - don't know if this is helpful - I make sure I eat three healthy meals a day with loads of veg and protein, and I (mostly) try to swap unhealthy snacks for healthy snacks. Like today was in a cafe with my mum and had banana and coffee rather than cake and coffee.
I have done quite a bit of exercise, but I honestly don't think that really helps you lose weight much, I think it helps massively with health and fitness and mood and shape is all.
Felt like a flump until 3 months despite all the running, 4th month has been much better though. Think I am losing weight but don't dare weigh myself!!
You are a month behind, big hugs, keep the faith (you are probably half my size already and this pep talk is pointless!)

I can't remember who was asking me about sex the other day, but I've stopped having sex sex. I just regularly get naked and we snog and get each other off, but we don't have sex any more. I still call it sex to make myself feel ok about it all. I figure one day I'll just be really up for it and it will be great and natural and just happen and then it will be fine. But I'm not going to force it.
It's kind of like baby led weaning. Postnatalhormonalwreck-led-shagging.

Smorgs Mon 28-Jan-13 20:07:53

Hey elpis you might know her, ill pm you (if I can work out how).

livvy you poor thing, lack of sleep is torture, literally. You must do whatever you feel is right for your family. But don't blame yourself. As crazy said its all just random luck, which unfortunately makes it feel so much more unfair sad would it help to look at her sleeping trends to help you feel better about it? ie if you record each night's longest stretch of sleep or total wakenings you might see the pattern improving even if there might be one or two horrendously shit nights in amongst them?
I personally don't have the energy to battle with him overnight so I wait until his 'coughs' have become cries then try popping the dummy back in but if that doesn't work I feed him. I know it seems to be the answer to everything these days, but she could be going through a growth spurt and needing to feed more often? Big hugs and hair strokes to you x

Londonmrss Mon 28-Jan-13 20:16:09

oh poor you livvy. I don't know about leaving them to cry. If you want a personal view, I think I would find it too unbearable. I would research if it works- ie does it actually teach a baby this age anything? Is there some Pavlovian conditioning involved? ie if no one comes when they cry, do they just learn that no one comes or does it actually teach some good sleep habit? Is it damaging?

Is there any way your partner can be more involved at night? I know he works / studies- but if he could just take the pressure off you a bit, it might help. In the meantime, do whatever you need to do to survive.

It will get better. I promise. This won't last. Then it will get good for a while and that won't last either.

Londonmrss Mon 28-Jan-13 20:16:50

oops cross posted with about eighteen thousand people...

FirstTimeForEverything Mon 28-Jan-13 20:18:27

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

squidkid Mon 28-Jan-13 20:20:15


Me and my mate were discussing painful sex. Her baby is 6 mths now. She got together with her boyfriend 1 mth before accidentally conceiving so it was all a bit of a crazy time - they are living together though. So she says they never really got to have the honeymoon sex, cause she was vomiting for 14 weeks and then stressed until 30 weeks and then he was too weirded out by the baby for the last trimester. So she was keen to get back to sex postnatally, and upset that it hurt. She had a forceps delivery and put it down to that, but comparing experiences I think it is just a giving birth problem. She has also been to a doc who said give it time (she was quoted 6-9 months! for a forceps delivery)

We were discussing how everyone says it is ok in time, but no one warned us it would still hurt at 4 months and 6 months respectively. But then we both admitted to each other than every single person we've asked so far has said "oh my god, how are you having sex. I didn't even try for a YEAR."

We concluded she is in a new relationship and I have always been an oversexed nobber. In conclusion, any of us who are having sex at all are pretty much ahead of the curve here.

Does anyone else wish we gestated for like 2 months?

squidkid Mon 28-Jan-13 20:21:08

londonmrss er cross posted with you sorry - that was supposed to cheer you up about your earlier sex post - cannot guarantee it will do any such thing mind!

BoraBora Mon 28-Jan-13 20:21:51

Bloody hell first I had a 3b tear and I haven't had all this hoo-haa!

crazypaving Mon 28-Jan-13 20:22:45

both DSs asleep!

<runs to bed>

FirstTimeForEverything Mon 28-Jan-13 20:48:37

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Smorgs Mon 28-Jan-13 20:48:47

Woohoo for the crazykids!

Just a last post from me to say PELVIC FLOORS

FirstTimeForEverything Mon 28-Jan-13 20:52:19

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Angelico Mon 28-Jan-13 20:55:36

Livvy sending a massive hug. I'm not sure how you're still functioning tbh - even a few bad nights last week nearly finished me off, although the last few nights have returned to normal. I'm going to swim against the general MN tide and say that I know MANY devoted parents who have used some form of controlled crying with their kids - and their kids are fine. I'm not a psychologist and even if I was I could no doubt find evidence to support both views (and this is no disrespect to Bora or anyone else individually - but livvy's cousin is a child psychologist who seems to advocate it). I know for example there was that study last year that okayed CC when it was done for a week - and they pointed out if it's taking longer than that parents might need help with their technique. I would say that most people I know did it when their babies were a bit older (5-7 months) but most found within a few nights things were transformed. They were undoubtedly a tough few nights but they got results and led to much greater happiness for the whole family.

I worked with very traumatised, abused kids for a while and maybe it gives me a different perspective. I don't believe that a few nights of being allowed to cry with a parent nearby reassuring a baby causes longterm damage or attachment issues. I simply don't believe it. The kids I've known with attachment issues had parents who didn't deserve the name and who were - to be frank - bad fucking bastards. On the flipside I know lots of children who have happy, secure, loving relationships with parents who practised controlled crying over a short period of time. So I guess my point livvy is that this is a very highly charged issue on MN - but in the real world I think you would be surprised at the people who do CC. It's a deeply personal decision but your well-being is important too.

On a practical note I totally agree with Squid that you should look at getting help, be it from a maternity nurse, family member or your DF. I guess since I'm on a roll and have probably already caused offence all round I will just be direct - your DF needs to step up. You are not a single parent. Are you sharing nights? We split nights here 6-1, 5-2 or 4-3 depending on how things are going so I ALWAYS get at least 1 or 2 nights a week where DH sleeps in with the bean. He is working FT AND working on a separate project - he's busy in other words but he wouldn't dream of leaving me to do all the nights. You need some sleep too.

Anyway, this turned into an essay - but sending good sleep vibes all round x

And on BFing / weightloss - anecdotally a few people I know said they lost more weight at 6-9 months when beans were partly weaned than they did when FT BFing - maybe because body doesn't need to hoard as much fat? Living in hope here... grin

Angelico Mon 28-Jan-13 20:59:47

firstTime I found CS recovery tougher than expected BUT having lunch today with friend who ended up having emergency CS AND had massive PPH afterwards (crash team type stuff) she STILL said she would rather have a CS next time - as would I. I had a CS to avoid these complications - because of my medical history (surgery) I was more at risk of having bad tearing and continence issues. I can honestly say that I can't notice any real difference down below and for that reason the CS was worth the pain, even though I hated the few weeks of recovery.

FirstTimeForEverything Mon 28-Jan-13 21:05:43

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FirstTimeForEverything Mon 28-Jan-13 21:08:08

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Smorgs Mon 28-Jan-13 21:11:25

Oops sorry firsttime cross posted, pelvic floor reminder must have seemed a bit insensitive! Just remembered for first time in days is all...

Angelico Mon 28-Jan-13 21:12:54

Yeah I read a lot of stuff on MN where people were like, "Oh yeah I was out on my bike / riding a horse / lifting weights 3 days after CS and just took a couple of paracetamol" etc etc and thought, "Great! This will be a doddle!" To my horror it actually hurt a lot afterwards confused Lovely doc at hospital was v sympathetic but seemed a bit confused that I was surprised at this. His words: 'People throw around the idea of having a CS very easily - but to us, we do actually class it as major abdominal surgery.' As it transpired I had retained placenta and low level infection which probably slowed my healing down and caused pain to come back after it had been going away nicely - so I'm probably not the textbook case grin And I was in awe of one girl at BFing group who was out strolling about and driving within a couple of weeks!

BoraBora Mon 28-Jan-13 21:14:30

Angelico I'm a clinical psychologist and I'm just telling her what we would or wouldn't recommend in the NHS. Crying it out is not recommended for babies this young.

FirstTimeForEverything Mon 28-Jan-13 21:19:34

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hufflepuffle Mon 28-Jan-13 21:21:43

Livvy you poor thing. I have no more advice than anyone else, only that you are her parents and you have the choice of what to do. Angelico talking sense there. I do know lots if loving parents who have done CC too, albeit after 5 months. You need to Do what is best for your little family. Perhaps she will settle soon, Impossible to predict. And u second your DP needs to give some help if things are so bad.

First I too had 3c. My consultant apt other week went.....
Are you leaking?
Are you in pain?
Did you attend physio?
Keep doing your exercises. That's you finished
And wrote asymptomatic in my notes.

Trying to decide if I'd rather have your follow up. Probably.

BoraBora Mon 28-Jan-13 21:24:26

First, I am in the UK. Hmm, I did see the gynae and the physio. Me bum muscle was spared (that's a sentence for "things I never thought I would say before I had a baby") so maybe that's the difference!

FirstTimeForEverything Mon 28-Jan-13 21:26:38

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lisbethsopposite Mon 28-Jan-13 21:35:39

Right I have 146 messages to read to fully catch up but quick post -
Olivess the same here. Sleep crap - I am going to bed shortly. I try to get as much before midnight as I can.
I had a moment today when I just wanted to cry - I was walking with Paul in pram and his face and head are all small scratches. He looks like he will be a teenager with an ASBO. His skin is dry and he tries to scratch all the time. I have seen 2 GPs, a dermatologist and best friend is a pharmacist - loads of good advice which due to sleep and surgery I have failed to implement 100%. I do nail filing, trimming, swaddling, socks on hands, bath daily, cream about 6-10 times a day. SO family advice last night - do this and that, see this dr. / steroid cream AAAGH!!! I say I am trying to follow advice, but DH is the best. Says only supportive things. Can't people understand there is a kind of implied criticism in unsolicited advice? And worse still when they keep banging on about it!
Meanwhile SiL says she is going home to give her DD a suppository as she can see she is constipated - and no one says a word. They would quickly be told where to go if they did, but I have been advised this is a bad habit for bowel - best to encourage it naturally, water fruit etc.
For all you 20 something mums that feel patronised due to age I AM 40 SOMETHING. blush on child no 2!
I feel better writing this, because only DHs opinion counts and he thinks I am great grin

Angelico Mon 28-Jan-13 21:37:07

Bora most people I know did it at 5-7 months, the majority from 6 months on. I do know a couple of people who did it younger and they were at the end of their rope with persistent non-sleepers so felt the benefits outweighed the harm for their own personal situations. I appreciate that you are talking about NHS advice - I'm just talking anecdotally.

FirstTime you didn't sound flippant at all - you echoed what I had expected smile There are people on this thread who were running about shortly after CS (I think it was Elpis or Smiley was on a bus with two kids while I still felt half dead grin) What pissed me off was that the hospital was so mean with painkillers because of BFing - but friends who had CSs at other hospitals were given shitloads of drugs in spite of it. I got quite cross and felt like I was being made to choose between painkillers OR breastfeeding. Next time round I will be smuggling my own stuff in (including lactulose - they acted like it was rationed hmm) and sweetly declining their chocolate teapots paracetamol... wink

Angelico Mon 28-Jan-13 21:38:57

Lisbeth that is in fact what DHs are there for grin Did you get a new au pair sorted? Is there any particular agency you recommend - I think you are in Ireland?

FirstTimeForEverything Mon 28-Jan-13 21:39:46

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FirstTimeForEverything Mon 28-Jan-13 21:44:21

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lisbethsopposite Mon 28-Jan-13 21:51:25

LLivvy I had a general anaesthetic rather suddenly last week. Anyway couldn't feed for 24 hrs after and I didn't have enough time to pump a days worth of milk pre op. So I did half and half formula and milk and I pumped and dumped. Handy enough as you do not have to be sterile/clean.
I saw no change to baby. Mustardy poos as before.

funchum8am Tue 29-Jan-13 03:28:32

olivess exact same sleep situation here, and similarly to livvy I am starting to eye up cc as an option when she reaches 6 months. If it works within a few nights as many say it did for them, I think the benefits to both babyfunch and me and DH (he will be on night duty by then as I will be back at work with him on leave) will outweigh short term distress. I believe the research that showed severe problems with cortisol flooding the brains of babies left to cry it out was done in extreme settings like Romanian orphanages and involved long term systematic neglect. bora will know more but presumably there hasn't been any research on middle class naice families trying this in the UK for ethical reasons, so the only evidence for people in similar situations to us is anecdotal, and much of that is positive as angelico says. I agree entirely with bora that cc is not ideal and should only be considered ad a last resort, but when your baby wakes hourly and is fed, warm, clean and not in pain, something has to give!

I am hoping for a magical transformation before we get desperate enough to try cc though! if the NHS are that keen for me not to do it they can prescribe me a night nanny grin grin

Elpis Tue 29-Jan-13 07:55:19

Angelico - Yeah, it was me on the bus with two kids a week post-section. wink But I remember going out with them both four days afterwards and having to turn around after half a mile because I was about to collapse. I had very uncomplicated recoveries with both the EMCS and ELCS, and my hospital is generous with the drugs (diclofenac/paracetamol combination) but people's experiences vary enormously. It is major abdominal surgery and you certainly need someone to help out at home for at least a week. Also, once you've had two c-sections they monitor you a lot more closely in a third pregnancy in case the scar busts open as you get bigger. I understand that can be very unpleasant. shock

crazypaving Tue 29-Jan-13 08:08:45

oh god last night was a horrific feedathon. am dead on my feet. thank goodness for cbeebies

Olivess Tue 29-Jan-13 08:10:22


Found this thread on sleep. It's a lighter sleep training plan that looks quite good. Personally I wouldn't do this until DD was 6 months or so but it could probably modified to do a bit earlier.