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November 2012 - sleeping through yet?

(1000 Posts)
StuntNun Wed 09-Jan-13 23:03:10
StuntNun Wed 09-Jan-13 23:04:28

Nope mine definitely isn't sleeping through yet, in fact I'm waiting for him to wake up around now for the first feed of the night sad

kirrinIsland Thu 10-Jan-13 00:24:54

Not yet here either! I'm just doing the first feed of the night.

No sleeps here either. Been feeding fr the last hour and a half. Gah.

katkit1 Thu 10-Jan-13 01:23:30

Feed no1 just finished. Hot water bottle warming cot ready for transfer.

Lane81 Thu 10-Jan-13 02:50:27

No sleeping through here, just finished a feed.

We've just discovered mild in our room, where the baby sleeps, and I'm terrified this will harm her in some way. I'm going to wash it tmrw, but any ideas what else I should do? We've literally just had a damp proof coursing injected into the wall! Will it hurt her?

Lane81 Thu 10-Jan-13 02:50:55

Mold not mild-stupid phone!

nillynoon Thu 10-Jan-13 04:44:09

No sleeping through really but just slept 5 hours which is technically sleeping through!

Lane81 Thu 10-Jan-13 07:09:49

My LO seems to be regressing, now waking every 3hrs (each feed still lasts an hour) hmm we were managing 4 hrs at one point. Argh!

TooManyDicksOnTheDancefloor Thu 10-Jan-13 07:21:25

Not sleeping through but a much better night, we also managed 5 hours 2-7am, yeah! gringrin

ValiumQueen Thu 10-Jan-13 07:39:00

<<laughs hysterically>>

BigPigLittlePig Thu 10-Jan-13 08:44:59


What vq said

Sophiathesnowfairy Thu 10-Jan-13 09:46:23

Nope. Not sleeping through in the literal sense but going from the late evening feed to somewhere between 6 and 7. Am happy with that. Feel a little bit more human.

ChunkyTurkeywiththetrimmings Thu 10-Jan-13 09:52:57

Almost almost slept through last night. One off no doubt, but events conspired to get him in bed after a long feed from half 8ish to just gone 9, he was asleep, so put him in his basket.10mins later heard noise on the monitor, wind. So after winding & putting the dummy in and it coming out again a minute later for a while, he was asleep. At 11 I gave him a dream feed force feed because I was leaking & wouldn't be able to sleep like that, which he took really well & slept through until 5.30ish!!!

So technically he was sleeping from just before 10 I guess until 5.30, and I managed to get a good 5+hr block of sleep for a change!!! I would say I felt like a new woman but I've just dozed off on the sofa cuddling both DC...blush

KissysUnderTheMisteltoe Thu 10-Jan-13 10:19:24

Closest we've had to sleeping through last night, 6 hours! First time I've had that much sleep in one go in a long time!

Lane I would wash the mould off with a mild detergent, but I'd speak to the company who did the damp proof course for you if it's happened since that's been done. It won't hurt the baby if you clean it away regularly IMO

KissysUnderTheMisteltoe Thu 10-Jan-13 10:23:51

Sorry meant to add we get a bit of mould in the corner of our bedroom from condensation. We had 2 air bricks put in to try and stop it but it came back. Now we just clean it away each week and try and keep the room well ventilated

pikz Thu 10-Jan-13 10:34:46

no sleeping through here either though we did get 10.30 til 3 which is a new record. Though he then played about from 4.30 ish til 6.30 at which point he had more food and then more again at 8.30. Obviously now he is sparko and I am doing dishes. Tired.com.

BigPigLittlePig Thu 10-Jan-13 10:38:16

LO has been awake for 5 hours straight - although have finally managed to wrestle her into the sling and her eyes are rolling, so FC...haven't even been able to express this morning as she's been feeding non-stop and haven't been able to put her down for any length of time (5 mins earlier when cat did massive poo in his litter tray and for sake of our health that needed dealing with before crying baby).

Health visitor coming later so hopefully she'll be able to help hmm

Congrats all of you who are getting some sleep - I seem to have forgotten that we had a sleep marathon only a few nights ago shame the effects haven't lasted

blonderthanred Thu 10-Jan-13 10:44:48

Hello new thread.

I don't really want DS to sleep through yet - he needs to feed up and that's far more important.

He has been <whispers> fairly reliable for the last few weeks in having 4 hrs sleep from when we go to bed, then an hrs feed, then 2 more hrs and another feed. DH then takes him for an hr so I can usually get 6-7 hrs myself overall which I am very happy with.

We have been very lucky with no illness so far and his early colic passed at 6 wks so I feel for those struggling with reflux, bronch etc.

HBeeBubba Thu 10-Jan-13 10:52:30

Hi - i'm just new to mumsnet, my little one is 11 days old and seems to think that night time is really day time... Has a feed about 11/12ish and is then awake right through to about 6/7am with a feed in between about 3am. Can't seem to settle him down for a sleep like I can during the day - any advice?

Sophiathesnowfairy Thu 10-Jan-13 11:09:23

chunky thanks for the reassurance. DS is 2.5. I kept going through Tuesday to find out if nursery thought it was worth perusing. He had a nasty poo accident and was crying for mummy. Which he has never done. Tis really upset me so we have gone back to nappies.

But the benefit of giving him a taster of it is he now hold himself when he has a wee and asks to go for a we. We never make it in time but he wasn't doing that before so I think we will do it slowly like that and give the cold turkey as miss till the summer.

Catbag Thu 10-Jan-13 11:16:24

Ha! Found you all! I guess reading posts while horrifically sleep deprived in the early hours means I did not notice Stunt posting the link to the new thread :s

KissysUnderTheMisteltoe Thu 10-Jan-13 11:19:48

LO is definitely making up for the 6 hours between feeds over night - feed and screamathon going on in the kissy household

BigPigLittlePig Thu 10-Jan-13 11:33:12

Have just eaten zillions half a packet of biscuits for breakfast blush

Dixiebell Thu 10-Jan-13 11:34:04

Not sleeping through here! 6 weeks tomorrow. 5 hours maximum so far...

Okay, I need help! Teddy and DS1 have been invited to their cousin's birthday party, the theme is polka dots. Loads of girl polka dot clothes, but for the life of me I can't find anything for either boy to wear. Want a spotty sleepsuit or some such, and a t-shirt or shirt for DS1 who is 2.3. Found a couple of sleepsuits online, but all £15+, and isn't that a bit pricey? I normally buy a pack of three from Sainsbury's for under a tenner! And I can't find a spotty boy's t-shirt or shirt anywhere. Ideas anyone? Or if I can't find anything, how else can we go along with the theme? I might have to do stripes instead..!!

Lane81 Thu 10-Jan-13 11:38:49

Thanks Kissy I think I was getting really worried in the middle of the night! I'll just start cleaning it regularly, but will def get company back.

Am v envious of everyone getting good sleeps! Though my LO is still very small so hoping it comes with weight gain!

Sophiathesnowfairy Thu 10-Jan-13 11:41:53

Have you a spotty tea towel that you could fashion a little piratesk hat out of? Or chop a hole in the top and wear it smock like?

StuntNun Thu 10-Jan-13 11:49:02

How about this bib Dixie?

BigPigLittlePig Thu 10-Jan-13 11:49:20

Dixiebell - Sainsburys have some spotty sleepsuits but in the girls range, and the polkadot one is not especially girly. For DS1, get a plain top and some felt tips/paint if all else fails?

No where near sleeping through, I sleep, he spends the night on his belly, bum in the air latching on and off as he's pleases all night then this can't continue I know but at the moment tiredness is winning the battle hands down blush

YellowWellies Thu 10-Jan-13 12:04:24

Dixie could you not paint some spots on a tshirt using fabric pens?

BigPig I forget are you BFing or FFing? Could the reflux be being made worse by dairy in your diet or formula - if it is CMPI all the meds in the world won't fix it without eliminating dairy in LO's diet. You could also up the ante in terms of meds maybe - there are plenty out there and there will be a combination just perfect for little pig. Gaviscon is cheapest so GPs try it first - if its not working as for ranitidine, domperidone or - the real bad boy and the only thing that worked for us - omeperazole. Oh and I'm sure your doing this but make sure LO's cot, play mat and change mat are propped up at a 30 degree angle to stop the acid being regurgitated.

YellowWellies Thu 10-Jan-13 12:06:34

Ok grammar and spelling appear to be packed away in our house move - apologies!!! Chat to you next week when we get internet - wish us luck! Sending sleepy 'Jedi mind trick'ery out to all the babies!

PetiteRaleuse Thu 10-Jan-13 12:09:08

12 weeks tomorrow and I can say that five of the last seven nights she has slept through. Approx. From11 or 12 to 7 or 8. The other nights she woke up at 5 to have a quick feed. Fingers crossed we keep this going.

I have good news. My girls both went to the paediatrician this morning, and their lungs are clear. Whooop! And DD1 can go to the nursery again next weeks which means I will have my mornings back to get the house straight sleep

And LO doesn't need any more physio.

Life can get back to normal. And I can start planning weekends away.

Dixiebell Thu 10-Jan-13 12:11:09

Good spotty ideas, thanks guys!

Sophiathesnowfairy Thu 10-Jan-13 12:16:31

Hope the flight and move go well yw

Catbag Thu 10-Jan-13 12:23:12

Good luck with the move YW!

blonderthanred Thu 10-Jan-13 12:28:14

That is fantastic PR I am delighted for you.

Sophiathesnowfairy Thu 10-Jan-13 12:30:59

Hi beebubba lots of us have been/are going through the topsey turvey day and night times, if you visit us in the early hours of the morning there's loads of people here.

You might find if you look for a Dec/Jan thread (do you have a new year baby?) you will find lots of people at exactly the same stage as you. I have to say it is invaluable to get this support and know what ever is going on you are not alone.

pikz Thu 10-Jan-13 12:31:38

Good luck YW. Will be thinking of you!

Fab news PR.

I love that spotty bib!

Not sleeping through here either, and epically failing at Moses basket transfers, so we bedshare all the time. blush
During the day she naps on me, in sling, or bouncy chair, never in her basket... She could be fast asleep when I put her in it and just wakes up...

DonnaDoon Thu 10-Jan-13 13:11:16

Hello my lovelys marking place..dd had 2nd lot of jabs/jags lol last night..she very sleepy but ok...getting her weighed this afternoon...oh and she usually sleeps 10 pm til 4-5 am IN MY ARMS...IN MY BED.

BigPigLittlePig Thu 10-Jan-13 13:12:18

Thanks yw - plan to speak to HV today and GP tomorrow, as the gaviscon is making little pig really bunged up which I'm sure isn't helping. Crib is propped up not that it matters as she won't sleep in it and she won't be put down for long enough to enjoy her play mat. The cat on the other hand loves how soft and snuggly it is hmm. Good luck with your move. We moved 6 days before LO was born which in no way contributed to her being 5 weeks early

Bluetinkerbell - ditto. It's like they've got a 6th sense.

KissysUnderTheMisteltoe Thu 10-Jan-13 13:12:44

Good luck for the move YW and great news PR! smile

ShellyBobbs Thu 10-Jan-13 13:26:03

HBeeBubba We've all been through the topsey turvey nights, this is quite normal and will eventually rectify itself. Some mums keep the bedroom very dark at night and keep baby in the light through the day (near a window, plenty of walks etc.). My baby is 8 weeks and sleeps well at night, well apart from the frequent feeds lol smile I didn't follow the advise I just gave, he adjusted himself.

For anyone else fretting about babies not sleeping well, my first child was a horrible sleeper. She still didn't sleep through even when she was 1, I was still feeding her twice a night and then up early with her. Once she did start sleeping through (about 20 months) and went into a bed, she wouldn't go to sleep unless one of us lay in her bed with her until she fell asleep. A nightmare! Her brothers arrival when she was 22 months completely cured her strangely enough. She is now 12 and one day in the Christmas holidays got up at 15.45. She was not ill. The next 2 children have always been fantastic sleepers. We'll see with Tommy but at the moment he feeds 4 times between midnight and 6.30; he is in my bed though so temptation is literally right near his face grin

ShellyBobbs Thu 10-Jan-13 13:27:58

Petite that's fantastic news, my hubby keeps asking after your DC.

CandyPop Thu 10-Jan-13 13:32:52

Hi beebaba 11days is still early days and your LO would not know the difference yet. You can start helping him to distinguish night and day. During the day keep doing your normal activities . As in keep baby in brightly lit room even when he's napping, no need to keep noise down, have tv on, chat normal etc. when he's awake interact with him . Then at night , dim the nights , background noise down. U may find that he doesn't like complete silence (the womb is a noisy place!) ... White noise helps.... And from this November thread, I think a lot of us will vouch that Ewan the sheep (look up on amazon or John Lewis ) is a must have and a godsend !!! Like sophia mentioned maybe worth seeing if there is a January thread going.... You are always welcome on here but you may find it comforting to talk to peeps with similar aged bubbas!! At this stage a month makes a huge difference !

yW good luck with move!

TooManyDicksOnTheDancefloor Thu 10-Jan-13 13:35:30

dixie- I've just been a to Asda and they had lots of Pudsey sleep suits and t-shirts in the sale, which are covered in polka dots.

A question for breast feeders- how often does your LO do a poo? B only goes about every other day but does a proper nappy filler. On the day she doesn't poo we have a horrible night where she cries at the breast and is sick after every feed. She poo'd before bed last night and fed and slept really well. It's driving me a bit mad.

PetiteRaleuse Thu 10-Jan-13 13:37:24

Thank you. I can't stop smiling smile

Sleep really varies from child to child. My mum said that neither me nor my siblings slept through before aged one. DD1 was really easy from ten weeks until 18 months, and has been waking up quite often since then (we moved and LO arrived). And is now a complete nightmare to get to sleep in the evenings.

One thing I will do with LO that I didn't with DD1 until yesterday is a routine.

Sophiathesnowfairy Thu 10-Jan-13 13:41:42

What a relief pr now go and enjoy your family, the mountains they are a calling! Xxgrin

ShellyBobbs Thu 10-Jan-13 13:45:08

Toomany Tommy does a complete nappy filler every other day aswell, although I don't have any problems on the none poo day. My youngest daughter sometimes went 2 weeks! I took her to the doctors but he said not to worry, there is hardly any wastage. I knew that but 2 weeks........8 years later she's still fine but thankfully more regular smile

ShellyBobbs Thu 10-Jan-13 13:51:43

Regarding the talk about nappies a few days ago, I was telling my sisters at Christmas that Asda nappies were crap for Tommy as they leaked straight away when he poo'd. They both seemed surprised and said how good they were, so good that one of my nephews is now in Asda pull ups. One of my sisters didn't bring enough nappies with her so borrowed a pull up, my youngest nephew was leaking within 15 minutes and the sister who was saying how good they were was cursing not long after as my other nephew was wet through soon after changing his pull up aswell.

I didn't say anything as I changed Tommy and put another non-leaking Aldi nappy on.

detective how did it go? I would hope your dad would help in any way for you to spend more time at home while Oscar is sooo tiny x

lane with mould/mildew you need to scrub it clean an then paint over the area with special stuff from b&q that's similar to pva glue, that then stops it coming back - we've used it in our long and it works a treat

pixies how adorable - having a twin would be so special!!

<hides behind a cushion and says in a very quiet voice> Dottie sleeps through from 12-7am �� all three of mine have have mothers lazy gene
Have googled vasospasm and think that answers why our latch is still toe curling at 8 weeks, other than the smurf look and occasional blanching I think it's quite a mild case!!

Dottie is rocking her 13yr old brothers first next baby gro today - its navy and has done all 3 and isn't at all bobbled but is so soft from the washes!

In the morning cos Dottie sleeps for 7 hours I have boobs like canon balls - she feeds so well and quickly for the first feed because of this and usually has a nap after - I assume because she is full and happy but because they're never that full for the rest of the days feeds so then she never seems full again and feeds for most of the day and only has little naps either when we go out in the car/pram or at the boob - I would much prefer to have canon ball boobs 6 x daily which resulted in 20 minute feeds leaving a sated happy baby lol who then sleeps or plays while I manage to do a little housework have a shower or catch up on here lol

StuntNun Thu 10-Jan-13 14:00:34

I'm glad to hear someone is getting some sleep Glenda, it was looking a bit stark there for a while.

ValiumQueen Thu 10-Jan-13 14:21:04

glenda J is similar. Good feed first thing, sleeps to lunch, then seems to be eating all the time. I do not have the benefit of good sleep at night either. He is 11 weeks old. I tend to offer boob before we go out, which is often due to school and nursery runs at different times. He feeds on waking too. He does sleep thankfully when in pram or car.

I have 5 oz expressed for DH to give him this evening. I am hoping it will knock him out. I so need abetter night and would consider introducing formula for one feed, but I am scared it will affect my supply.

TheDetective Thu 10-Jan-13 14:38:06

Fucking twat. Said no. Laughed at me and said it would do me good to go back to work. My mum warned me he'd be like that. He made her go back when I was 8 weeks old because he insisted that they couldn't afford her not to. My mum insisted they could. He won because she didn't want the fall out. He did not want to compromise on lifestyle - hence why he thought they couldn't afford it.

I literally can not afford to take any more than 6 months. My pay is full for 8 weeks, then half plus smp for 18 weeks. For me, this means a £700 drop in pay (averaged) each month for 4 months. (I have saved up to cover most of the drop, but the rate shit is going wrong, it won't bloody last!) After that it is SMP only for 3, which is a massive £1650 drop. And I am the main wage earner. I earn 4 times what DP does. We would be fucked if I was only on SMP.

Well, he did leave behind £100. Told me to have my boiler serviced. So thanks Dad. That is all I am worth clearly! Oh, and to add insult to injury, as soon as he said no and how I should get back to work hmm he then started going on about how fucking well off he is again. Wittering on about how he and his wife have made their fucking fortune. I sat there open mouthed. Insensitive or what?!!!

So glad he has pissed off and I can go back to normal!! Well, as normal as normal is when everyone around you is ill!

Thanks for the good luck anyway!! 28th April is return date I guess sad

TheDetective Thu 10-Jan-13 14:44:05

Dixie I have a lovely little white babygrow with little multicoloured polka dots on it. It is from Next. There are lots of them on eBay at the moment. I know this because I am trying to get him the next size up as I loved it so much! Do you want me to link some?

PR Fab news! About time!

YW Sending sleepy vibes your way... enter sandman!! Good luck with the move!

Lane We have lots of trouble with mold, but its just around the windows. I clean it off as much as I can, and use either white vinegar or bleach. Bloody hate the stuff. It doesn't seem to have affected us. Worst rooms are the bedrooms. I need a dehumidifier, as leaving the windows constantly open isn't enough. I have a condenser dryer, and any clothes which need hanging to dry are in the stairs under the cupboard where the boiler is. No clothes are dried upstairs. And I don't use the radiators for drying. So not sure why it is so bad, but it is! GRRR!

Well, best get off here and go get DS from school...

MissMummy1 Thu 10-Jan-13 14:45:15

We are going backwards on the sleeping front... She will only sleep on me.confused

Had a massive argument with not-so-darling partner this morning. I won't go into details (and I know myself I am totally overreacting and being selfish) but I'm furious with him and his attitude to everything angry . The fact he's wonderful with M is the only thing saving him just now. I'm beginning to question what I actually like about him... stupid hormones sad

Baby yoga was fun though smile . Matilda took exception to relaxation time though and decided to let everyone in scotland the room here her squaks blush

MissMummy1 Thu 10-Jan-13 14:48:51

*hear blush

TheDetective Thu 10-Jan-13 14:49:45

Oh, and the £100, I am so tempted to blow it on 100 lottery tickets. Or if I knew how to gamble, I'd gamble it. But I don't.


blonderthanred Thu 10-Jan-13 14:50:51

Glenda that's exactly how L is during the day. I am hoping his feeding may improve and be more efficient soon.

VQ I was going to ask how you were getting on with expressing. Did you get 5oz in one go? I can only get 2oz per session but am hoping it will improve with time and perhaps now DS is (hopefully) feeding more efficiently. I hope J starts sleeping a bit longer soon for you.

ValiumQueen Thu 10-Jan-13 15:03:18

Thank you blonder I started by getting 2oz on sunday I think it was. Now up to 4oz. I only got 1oz yesterday as I was so upset and stressed. I saved yesterdays for today. He has only had one bottle so far. I have two in freezer for emergencies. I only use one boob as the other one is crap. It gave up completely at 8 months with DD2 and I fed her with just the one for another 10 months.

detective do not take any money coming from him as a given. My parents are comfortably off but appear to be planning to live for ever, and they could need to spend the money on care or something. I do not bank on it. My parents are totally reliable, but your dad is clearly a twat. Have a pension fund and pay off mortgage as you would anyway, and anything that comes your way is a bonus. I would also not want to be indebted to a twat like him either.

GTbaby Thu 10-Jan-13 15:11:34

Oh detective. That sucks. Very mean hmm sending bad vibes to him now.

Right flame me if u wish. But we did 11 to 7.30. Seems he was waking last few days because of his cold.
I'm trying to work towards a 9-9 routine. Me n DH are sleepy lazy gits. Lo obviously has got this from us.

PetiteRaleuse Thu 10-Jan-13 15:18:16

Detective it's possibly for the best. People who are stingy, when they do lend you money never let you forget it. It's horrible.

MissMummy1 Thu 10-Jan-13 15:19:57

Detective do we have the same dad?! Tight bastard.

Sophiathesnowfairy Thu 10-Jan-13 15:30:15

detective no fear I go back on 1st April or 3rd will actually be my first day back in the office. sad

Sophiathesnowfairy Thu 10-Jan-13 15:33:20

What pr said as well. detective thanks wine

I'm going back 18 February due to rubbish maternity pay. Work had offered me an extra 5 weeks at 90% otherwise I would have been back to work already...
I'm lucky though I will be keeping L with me while working, mostly working from home, although not sure yet how it will work.

My breastfed baby has gone from several poos a day to none for 2 days and when she does they leak everywhere!

pikz Thu 10-Jan-13 16:18:19

Detective what a twat. Sorry no other words for him. I am so sorry.

VQ I am considering a formula feed to knock this LO out and just waking up and pumping when needed to keep supply as that only takes 15mins unlike feed and settle and then pump. Not sure if it would work though hmm

BigPigLittlePig Thu 10-Jan-13 16:26:34

Maternity pay is rubbish isn't it, we're in the same position as you detective - only problem is that due to husbands super sperm poor planning good fertility, LO was conceived well before I thought she would be, so haven't been able to save anything (still paying off wedding/honeymoon debt sad)

Little pig currently looking like butter wouldn't melt, asleep flat on her back, right in time for the HV. Fell asleep watching fantastic mr fox so haven't iced DHs (shop bought) birthday cake

Clarella Thu 10-Jan-13 16:45:24

ooo youre on to page 3 already! will try n catch up ( I do lurk a lot) - in response to thread title, we're getting a definite pattern at night - random stuff till about 10- 11 then feed at 12, 4 then roughly 7 or 8.... not bad for 4 and half wks???? (I've jinxed it now!) ( and 6 wks growth spurt will mess it up!!)

sorry to hear about maternity pay stuff. ours isn't that great either - was surprised actually. ( teacher's). I'm massively keeping my fingers crossed over being allowed part time. considering I used to practically run the place I really hope so.

Elizadoesdolittle Thu 10-Jan-13 16:49:51

yw good luck with the move.

pr glad that everything is going back to normal for you.

chunky. it's a new thing for me as DD1 had no issues with taking a bottle at all. She didn't care if she was fed by boob or bottle or who was giving her the bottle as long as she was being fed. I never even thought it would be an issue. So it's quite annoying really. Aside from making it difficult to leave her, she has poor weight gain and I really need to top her up. I hope you find a bottle that suits him.

horseylady Thu 10-Jan-13 17:12:16

Omg you talk soooo much!!!

Detective - what vq says. I've worked my maths out wrong!! That's my back to work loss!! Similar situation. My fil similar we could inherit a fair whack. He will probably leave it to the cats protection league. Which would be ironic as he hates cats!! Anyway, make your own way as vq says, see extras as a bonus!! And mend the boiler. Or put it away for another emergency.

Dixie - I have a spotty baby grow from cin. I can post it if you want?!

Gt - I think 12 hours comes about 12 months!!! You will need to feed at some point!! Ds still waking for feeding. He's still recovering. Dh called me earlier and said how you feeling?! You looked like death this morning. He still won't be home till 8, which means I'll have been alone for 13 hours. I told him I felt ill too!!! Oh well he won't his three games a week which I've limited him too

GTbaby Thu 10-Jan-13 17:19:15

Iol horsey. I'm referring to GF

MissMummy1 Thu 10-Jan-13 17:27:09

HMRC totally fecked up my maternity allowance. £27 a week - utter bollocks. Due to their cock up I'm losing about 6k iver my maternity leave. Financially we are in no hurry for me to go back to work (although there is nowt left at the end of the month to plough into our mortgage saving account sad ) but I plan to pick up a few freelance tutoring hours from feb onwards...

Sophiathesnowfairy Thu 10-Jan-13 17:34:42

Can you not sort it outwith HMRC mm?

KissysUnderTheMisteltoe Thu 10-Jan-13 17:35:23

Sorry to hear that detective, but like others have said best not to be indebted to someone like that thanks

GTbaby Thu 10-Jan-13 17:37:32


I'm referring to GF 7-7 routine. Which includes a 11pm dream feed. Which in my ideal 9-9 routine I would give at 12 as LO feeds every three hours. ATM he has final feed at 9. Then sleep to 7.30. Feeds then bk to sleep till 10ish. I KNOW IM VERY VERY LUCKY grin

My issue is I still sleep quite late (when i can sleep that is!) as DH works shifts. So I end up staying up to have some normal grown up time. Or when he is on nights or early, i stay up late to have some alone time as pil are around all day.

horseylady Thu 10-Jan-13 17:40:10

Oh ok. Thatll make the dream feed 1-2am lol!! smile

Im always amazed with colds how much you can blow your nose. It's unreal the body can produce so much snot!!!! And that your voice can totally disappear!!

I've started using the bumbo seat. It's great!! Ds hates lying down but in this he sits happily and watches me do things!! We can chatter to each other too!!

Mm - £27 is just laughable!! Assume your getting child benefit? It's just a stupid situation! How can you work and not get a penny (which relatively speaking you aren't!!) and yet some people get a house??!!

Dixiebell Thu 10-Jan-13 17:57:54

toomany , thanks for the Pudsey suggestion. No Asda nearby unfortunately. But I've ordered the spotty bib, and found some iron-on spots on eBay so will put those on a plain t-shirt.

On BFing and poos, Teddy goes at least 6 times a day. But he does seem to struggle with it if he hasn't been for a while so I understand your LO being uncomfortable if it's been 2 days without.

pikz Thu 10-Jan-13 18:05:19

Dixie I was too scared to say Luc also goes that many times still!

J is a bf baby and he does 3-4 explosive poos per day still :/ I'm now wondering if that is normal? He's 9 weeks and still has bright yellow runny poo with pips in. confused

I'm struggling big time today, both older DCs are being shits and I don't have time to do everything all the time !!!!!

BigPigLittlePig Thu 10-Jan-13 19:04:12

Pikz and toomany, little pig was going that often until the gaviscon wreaked chaos on her poor little tummy helped her reflux. Have an appt with GP to get some ranitidine for tomorrow, as can't face the weekend with reflux/constipated baby.

On a positive note, little pig has put on 1lb 5oz in 12 days shock

TheDetective Thu 10-Jan-13 19:04:13

Oh yes, I know. I'll still save for a pension one day soon as I won't ever rely on anyone else. I've always been too independent to rely on anyone, not even DP. I've got my plan, and who knows. Perhaps when I get to retire, I will be able to live the wild life with my pension, and his dosh... grin. I'll be one crazy old lady! But on the plus side, my children will have money to help them through life. Not soon enough to help DS1 on to property ladder etc, but at some point, he will. Oscar will benefit more as he is so much younger.

On a similar subject, both my parents have insisted that they won't be living once their quality of life deteriorates in their old age. I know what they mean by this. Has anyone elses parents said similar to them? Or are both mine strange!

My mum is furious at my dad. She hates him more knowing that he has all this money because he screwed her over when they divorced. He got the family home, and me and my mum lived in my nans granny flat, which was as big as a shoe box, there was no bedroom, just a living room with a kitchen and bathroom attached. We lived in that for almost a year, 2 adults and a child!

He never paid her a penny in child maintenance because he moved to Switzerland not long after they separated, and the CSA couldn't chase him. He was supposed to be paying £600 a month, and that was 19 years ago. And not on his even bigger salary that he got from moving to Switzerland.

Whatever. He is the one who has lost out - he lost out on my childhood, and he has lost out on his grandchildren - which most parents can't wait to have. He isn't arsed. He called himself uncle c**** to DS1 a couple of years ago. Then realised what he had said and corrected himself to grandad c******. Idiot. I'm sure he forgets he has a daughter and grandchildren, and that instance just served to demonstrate that!

BigPigLittlePig Thu 10-Jan-13 19:05:57

Sounds like a right prik idiot detective

Lane81 Thu 10-Jan-13 19:09:29

VQ I've introduced 1 formula feed as last feed of day (4-6oz, 6 offered) and it does knock LO out for 4, sometimes 5 hrs. She's not had it the last few days and has returned to waking every 2 hrs. Hasn't affected supply in slightest, think because I still do the 4am plus feeds...

PetiteRaleuse Thu 10-Jan-13 19:09:53

Detective that is a sad story. My dad was a shite as well but fortunately he's pushing up the daisies now (in French they have the same expression except for dandelions) so I don't have to deal with him now.

PetiteRaleuse Thu 10-Jan-13 19:11:01

Anyone else got a LO who laughs when feeding? It's so cute !

<warning rant>

AIBU to have the rage and take myself off for a lovely bath with lush smellies?

At 6pm got home from my mums with M, she's fallen asleep in her car seat so is finally quiet after spending the day crying.
Put her down and went to sort out the pile of junk letters on the coffee table. There's all the Xmas cards that DH took down when he took the decs down while M and I had a lie in on Sunday so I put them to recycle.
Then I realise there's none of Ms cards. Last week I'd made a pile on the fireplace of all the 1st Christmas cards for M from us, grandparents etc and the Mummy and Daddy card from M to us. We've got a memory box for her so I was going to put them in there. Ask DH where they are, no idea. It's looks like they've gone in the bin angry but the pile of big standard cards from neighbours and acquaintances etc he's piled up. Why? Did he not think that I might have piled them neatly on the fireplace for a reason? angry

I know it's something or nothing but I wante to keep them. An I know I'm being irrationally annoyed but I took myself off upstairs as I could feel I was going to cry sad probably the effects of M being wingey all day.

While I'm upstairs I think I might as well do something to busy myself while I sulk so I sort out and put away about 3 loads of washing, tidy the bedroom and bathroom which are both bombsites. Come downstairs 30 mins later and he's still sat on the sofa playing on his phone and Ms still sat in her car seat on the floor. Hasn't bothered to get her out, hasn't thought oooh ill cook some tea or clean the kitchen. angry

He's just asked what shall we have for te, why he can't think on his own. So I've seized te opportunity of M being asleep in her car seat with her coat still on and gone for a bath leaving him to cook.

I know it's everything bubbling up and me being annoyed at not getting chance to do anything and M being v cranky but I'm fed up tonight so stuff it, I can't be arsed

Sorry for the epic moan

PR DT2 smiles away when feeding and gets covered in milk. I can't help but smile back at her, it is adorable!

BigPigLittlePig Thu 10-Jan-13 19:17:27

Fatima rant away.

DH is currently snoring on the sofa after a "hard" day at work not as hard as having mangled boobs and a screaming baby and not a wink of sleep for over 24 hrs

horseylady Thu 10-Jan-13 19:25:34

Petite it rains cats and dogs in the uk but I can't think of a term the French say? I knew the daffs one but I remember hearing something and thinking mmm odd ! Then raining cats and dogs is odd.

Detective. Different people go through life in different ways. I try to think that whenever people are doing something erm, different!! Their loss!!

I'm obviously a very comfy pillow today!!

pikz Thu 10-Jan-13 19:33:12

Lane what time do you give it? I could just do with 4/5 hours sleep and then I'm happy to go back to every 2/3 hours to keep supply up.

KissysUnderTheMisteltoe Thu 10-Jan-13 19:59:27

Gah! I've got a blocked duct in my boob confused this is what I get for 6 hours between feeds last night. I'm already taking one if the antibiotics they prescribe for mastitis for my c section scar hole so hopefully it won't get too much worse!

Will catch up properly later, but yes PR my LO laughs when feeding - too cute

ValiumQueen Thu 10-Jan-13 20:00:01

Interesting lane I am very keen to keep his gut virgin, but I also want to sleep.

I am lying in bed on my own having put the girls to bed, fed Jacob, done a few chores, and left him downstairs with DH and a bottle of EBM. 5oz. J is asleep. DH will bring him up when he comes to bed, and if he wakes hungry he will feed him.

I had a bit of a meltdown last night and again today. Last night my nips were so sore. One is bruised today on the areola, a proper blood blister type bruise from being mangled by the ferocious parasite. J has slept and fed today with minimum interaction. Typical growth spurt focus. This evening however he was smiling and laughing on my boobie. Melted my heart. He is just doing what his instinct tells him.

Feel a bit bad as he was in footless gro and I tickled his foot mid feed. Poor little bugger nearly choked.

Why can I not sleep? Even with the wee bit of fake baileys in my tummy?

Gonna shut my eyes and try to at least chill.

Sleepy dust to all mummies and babies x

PetiteRaleuse Thu 10-Jan-13 20:27:45

Horsey try 'il pleut comme une vache qui pisse'

It's raining like a pissing cow..

TooManyDicksOnTheDancefloor Thu 10-Jan-13 20:29:24

I've got a polka dot sleep suit in size 0-3 months if you want me to send it to you dixie. It's a unisex one from next, white with small spots which are red, blue, green etc. it was dd1's, just found it when sorting through clothes.

Bronwen took a bottle today, yeah! It was a nuk, she was able to latch on to it properly. I expressed 3.5oz, it took her 30 mins to drink it and then she fed from me for another 5 mins, so god knows how much she takes in total. I think she needs fast flow teats, my boobs are defo fast flow.

kirrinIsland Thu 10-Jan-13 20:39:20

detective that sucks, but like everyone says - best not to be in debt to someone like that. And best not to rely on the inheritance either. Both my parents should have had a pretty good inheritance but both had a parent with dementia - by the time they died everything had gone in care fees.

I'm hopeful N will sleep a little more tonight as she's been awake more today. Last night was ridiculous. She slept till 00.30-02.30 and then refused to go back down until about half 6 - she'd sleep on me but wake as soon as I put her down. I'm reluctant to try formula but a bottle of ebm before bed made no difference to how long she slept. I'll try it again tonight though <<lives in hope>>

MissMummy1 Thu 10-Jan-13 20:49:21

Fatima rant away. I am super pissed off with dp for very similar reasons. (although not binning things, I would kill him for that!)

Tonight was meant to be his first day on nights. I told him to take the car just incase he got away early or needed to come home for whatever reason in the middle of the night, I'm not needing it anyway! They have a minibus liftshare thingy at work which they've been using, which is great during the day when I need the car. Stubborn bastard thought he knew best getting it tonight and is now going to get away at midnight. I'm so angry with his lack of forward thinking as he now expects me and M (okay, we will probably be awake but it's freezing tonight) to go and get him angry. We're a 45 min walk from the site - should I make him walk it? If he was organised the muppet can't organise a piss up in a brewery he could get a lift home in one of the boats. But no, I have to go and get him because he "did me a favour leaving me the car" - which I neither needed or wanted angry angry

As for revenue and customs? When I registered self employed at the start of the year I was told to take out a NI exemption certificate and cancel it when my earnings went above the threshold. I queried this a few times and was told each time that as long as I made voluntary contributions it wouldn't effect any benefits (ie MA). This is in fact utter bollocks and because I had the cert for most of my pregnancy before cancelling it I am treated as having not paid enough NI - despite paying the whole damn lot through voluntary contributions. Don't know if that makes sense but basically they screwed me over and won't do a thing about it. sad Horsey you're right, if I hadn't worked the past year I would be a lot better off. Luckily DP has permanent work this winter and not seasonal otherwise we really would be screwed!!!

MissMummy1 Thu 10-Jan-13 20:53:52

Detective my dad is an absolute prick as well. He is unbelievably selfish and couldn't give a damn about his kids. And now he's doing the same with his granddaughter which I will never forgive him for. He also screwed my mum over in their divorce and left us struggling for years. I'm secretly proud of the fact I have never had to depend on him for help, and even if he came crawling now I still wouldn't.

horseylady Thu 10-Jan-13 20:55:02

Anyone watching stargazing live?! They are ultra close to my house!!! Very exciting I look forward to using the telescope!!

Yes petite possibly the pissing cow. Thought there was something odd to do with handbags. Or something like that.

BigPigLittlePig Thu 10-Jan-13 21:03:24

Kissys you have my sympathies - have had excruciating sore boob for a few days, usually can get rid of blocked ducts but this ones getting worse and now have big red patch sad - trip to doctors tomorrow if no better.

LO will only fall asleep lately with my boob in her mouth. Am too tired to fight this.

Good luck everyone for lots of sleep tonight.

PetiteRaleuse Thu 10-Jan-13 21:11:15

Hmm can't think of anything to do with handbags. Shall ask DH when he's finished getting DD1 to sleep. Have her nap routine down pat but she's so challenging naughty in the evenings.

StuntNun Thu 10-Jan-13 21:42:15

Tits yy to the explosive poos one in the bath yesterday but you don't need to know that and also yy to the two annoying older kids but it was DS1's birthday today so they had an excuse for being so excitable and disobedient.

Detective your DF sounds like a right a-hole, it's awful when you can't even count on your parents.

ValiumQueen Thu 10-Jan-13 21:44:03

One poxy hour. I would have thought 5oz would have bought me more than a poxy hour! He is feeding with the same voraciousness. Plus there is poo all over babybjorn and his clothes as DH did not notice a poo. Better than nowt I guess!

Belgrano Thu 10-Jan-13 21:45:39

Hi ladies. No sleep routine to speak of here. Fat baby though so something's working ok! She's had four colds now, poor possum, and I've had three blocked ducts (god bless cabbage leaves and hot baths) and one bout of mastitis. Apart from that we are doing ok. Christmas saw far too much illness from other DCs and generally I'm looking forward to summer for that reason. Feeling out of the loop-sorry for radio silence. Hope you're all ok.

Dixiebell Thu 10-Jan-13 21:49:07

detective , ooh yes, could u link to the Next suits? I've tried looking on eBay, but maybe not searching the right words?

Dixiebell Thu 10-Jan-13 21:54:50

Ah, just caught up with thread, and seen offers to send me spotty outfits from toomany and horsey . Thanks both, you are kind! I'll end up with a whole collection of spotty clothes won't I?! Anyway, I've ordered the bandana bib now, so don't worry but thanks muchly for the offers.

TheDetective Thu 10-Jan-13 22:00:45


What size do you need? Am presuming this size but I have some in my watch list up to 1 month (10lb)

Evilwater Thu 10-Jan-13 22:17:34

Can't believe it. P is being a dick, I'm at my mums house as I'm going to kill him.
N was crying and he came down and told me, I was cooking dinner at the time and he refused to cook or look after n. p solution to the problem is he will get the MIL to look after N, while I cook. no biggie as I thought he was still working but no, he went upstairs to play on his computer as his mum and I work.
I was not happy about this, so finished the meal quickly and took over from his mum. An hour passed and he didn't even pop his head around to let me have my meal. I poped N in the car to calm him, and as I'm doing so p said " I don't care if you crash and kill both of you"

So not happy,
In my I phone.

Evilwater Thu 10-Jan-13 22:20:46

Also he's not txted or rang me. Jerk

StuntNun Thu 10-Jan-13 22:22:27

What's his problem Evil? Why would he be so nasty to you?

pikz Thu 10-Jan-13 22:22:40

Evil are you ok? Think you and P need serious words. That is very unpleasant hmm

LO is a terror. I had him all day and then at 10.15 DP says I'll take him you get into bed and LO promptly goes into a deep sleep. Did the same yesterday. Clearly it's just me!

Evilwater Thu 10-Jan-13 22:27:42

His whole life it has been his mum and him.
Now there is me and his son. Sometimes I feel second rate to her, it's ok for me and his son to leave but not her. He also has OCD which doesn't help.
Here's hoping things are better in the morning.

pikz Thu 10-Jan-13 22:29:07

VQ hope you are doing alright after your meltdowns. If it makes you feel any better L has drained 11oz in 2.5 hours, 5 of which were mixed as I was trying to see if it helped him feel fuller for longer. No such luck!

Growth spurts r us over here at the moment. He is already 91st percentile for length and head so god knows how big he will end up. No wonder I'm knackered and finding it hard to keep up with his food demands!

TheDetective Thu 10-Jan-13 22:50:25

Oh my word Evil what an absolutely awful thing to say. I suspect he is feeling the strain as you are, the evenings are clearly hard on you at the moment. Not that it is any excuse for saying something so disgusting. But maybe he needs to tell you how he is feeling, not bottling it up and then coming out with something like that.

He probably doesn't even realise how awful he has been.

I have another man who prioritises his computer over his son. I am hoping he learns that the computer comes when he has time, not when he makes that time above everything else. His mum has told him the same, so he knows it is his issue, not me being unreasonable.

I hope you are okay. Twatting men eh?

TheDetective Thu 10-Jan-13 22:53:16

Just had a proud mummy moment! Oscar was on my lap, playing with his mirror (christmas present off DS1!). It has a little ball on it that you have to knock quite strongly to get a tune from it. Well he knew that you needed to hit it. He just had to get his hand to the damn thing! Well he bloody well did it! Over and over! Filmed him doing it 3 times! It kept him occupied for ages too!

Our babies are growing up!! <Sob>

Sophiathesnowfairy Thu 10-Jan-13 22:54:43

That's a terrible terrible thing to say * evil* I can't imagine how you must feel.

vq hope you are snoozing

mm hope mr mummy is walking home!

Evilwater Thu 10-Jan-13 22:59:15

He still hasn't txted. Should I txt him we are ok?
Thanks for all your Kind words.

PetiteRaleuse Thu 10-Jan-13 23:03:24

Sorry to hear your P is being a twat. No, I wouldn't text him. And if he doesn't apologise of his own accord I would wait til at least tomorrow and demand an apology. He has to realise that saying shit like that is not only unacceptablebut a terrible example of disrespect to his son and his mother. I'm sure he didn't mean it but that is not the point.

kirrinIsland Thu 10-Jan-13 23:07:48

That's awful evil I wouldn't be texting him, no.

mm I'd like to think I'd make him walk, but I probably wouldn't. I'd be really pissed off though.

VQ hope you get some sleep soon.

GTbaby Thu 10-Jan-13 23:15:56

Aww evil that's such a horrible thing to hear. hmm Big hugs n hope he comes grovelling soon x

Sophiathesnowfairy Thu 10-Jan-13 23:22:08

I wouldn't text till. Tomorrow evil he needs to realise he said a terrible thing. Xx

TheDetective Thu 10-Jan-13 23:34:26

No, don't text him Evil. Make him do the running. Trust me on this one..... smile

KissysUnderTheMisteltoe Thu 10-Jan-13 23:43:15

Blimey evil that's a terrible thing for him to have said, I hope he makes a grovelling apology. Definitely don't text him, let him sweat

TheDetective Thu 10-Jan-13 23:45:27

I just mentioned about the Tommee Tippee sterilising wipes on fb, I thought I would mention them on here to see if anyone else had used them?

They are for wiping dummies when out. We were going to get a cheap wide neck bottle and take some sterilising fluid out with us for those dummy emergencies where they throw the last one in the mud or the floor of the car yes, I'm looking at you Oscar resorting in you taking a bottle teat and a muslin cloth, and shoving said cloth in the teat, and shoving said invention in to their mouth. Not that we had to do that. Errrr, nope...! grin

We always take 3/4 out with us, but usually by the time we are home, we are on our last one! He always drops the buggers, but he uses them the most away from home. He only has them to settle to sleep at home (and not every sleep!) but when out they keep him soothed.

So I wanted a solution, and while looking for a cheap bottle, found the wipes.

I found this review of them. But does anyone else know much before we try them out?

GTbaby Fri 11-Jan-13 00:07:42

Det. RE dummy steriliser. There are these little cups u can get. That allow u to sterilise dummy when out n About. Actually looks like a ball not a cup. Not sure how they work.

GTbaby Fri 11-Jan-13 00:19:05

I do t know how to put links in I. Phone. So search this on amazon instead - Milton Mini Soother Steriliser (Blue)

MissMummy1 Fri 11-Jan-13 00:24:18

Oh heck evil - lots of hugs lovely xxx I agree with the others, make him sweat and do the running. Chill out at your mums tonight, hot bath and gin a hot choccie smile Has he got form for nasty comments? Sleep deprivation makes people say and do stupid things (I am guilty of this myself - we have had some ferocious rows recently..blush )

Like a mug I went and got himblush Worked in my favour though as the car sent M to sleep (thus saving me taking her out in an hour's time...) and dp is going to stay up with her tonight, just waking me up for feeds. Time will tell if that actually happenshmm

GTbaby Fri 11-Jan-13 00:33:01

Det. Further info for u. The Milton thing needs tablets. So cud just get tables n use in a cheaper container. Or. Pipila Ultra Violet Portable Pacifier Steriliser uses batteries.
Not seen the toppee wipes. Just use the Milton ones on my bag but don't think u can clean a dummy with them.

TheDetective Fri 11-Jan-13 01:07:30

I saw the mini dummy steriliser things in Asda GT but thought at £7, it was expensive for the amount of times I'd probably need it! I thought the cheapo bottle with some milton in would be a cheap solution, but the wipes were £2 and there are 39 I think, which would last me an age!

TheDetective Fri 11-Jan-13 01:08:12

30 not 39!

Evilwater Fri 11-Jan-13 01:15:05

Here is his txt. I've replied that "we are ok. See you tomorrow.

Not coming home tonight? well it's OK, sorry anyway for having tooth pain for the last 3 days and sorry for getting a cold today, sorry for being to have to work despite my pain and sorry for asking for a bit of help of my mum, but I guess that you staying with your mum now is sort of same help but ok, sorry anyway, next time I won't rest during my briefly time of the day that I have to rest I will then cook for you, even thou everyday I look after nicholas while you cook, but not even when I'm sick I can have a break, ok sorry for that too.

StuntNun Fri 11-Jan-13 02:11:06

That's not a proper apology Evil, he doesn't say 'sorry I was a twat' just 'sorry bad stuff has been happening to me'. It's a start but he needs to take responsibility for what he has done wrong as well.

What about using a dummy clip Detective and GT?

Dixiebell Fri 11-Jan-13 02:30:36

evil, that is no apology, just a load of excuses. I think Words are needed tomorrow!

Thanks for the link detective .

Teddy just woke himself up screaming and farting. He does seem to suffer with trapped wind. Maybe I need to give him something, is in facial the best thing? Ds1 never had this prob. I never even used to need to burp him after feeds.

Dixiebell Fri 11-Jan-13 02:31:28

Infacol not in facial!

nillynoon Fri 11-Jan-13 02:42:39

Just up to feed after putting Toby down at 9.30.....hurrah!

Braving our first mum and baby group on Monday - hopefully they won't eat me alive. We have baby massage starting in a few weeks, and baby yoga too. Now that he can go longer between feeds, I can start getting out more

nillynoon Fri 11-Jan-13 02:45:09

I agree evil, that's a v weak apology!

StuntNun Fri 11-Jan-13 03:04:36

If a good night is three feeds (12, 2. 5) then this is not a good night since we are already on the third at 3 a.m. Why does he need so many? I got nearly three hours between two feeds last night but sometimes it is less than an hour. It is very stressful and made worse by DH and now DM keeping saying 'Shall I give him a bottle?' That makes me want to pour them all down the sink as it undermines me. What's the point of giving a bottle if I'm awake with him? It would be different if someone would give him a bottle in the night once in a while but DH needs his sleep for work and not falling asleep at the wheel. How do pilots and surgeons etc. cope with the lack of sleep when there's a baby in the house?

nillynoon Fri 11-Jan-13 03:19:20

How old is he stuntmum?

CandyPop Fri 11-Jan-13 04:08:18

Ah stunt I will join u tonight sad. LO just wouldn't settle tonight. She slept from 9pm to 12am but then had to be fed 12.30am, 1.30am in between waking up everytime we try put her in her cot . Finally asleep by 2.30am then woke at 3.15am , another feed, sleeps on me, even snores but as soon as down in cot she's wide awake sad ..... Now back on me.

Wondering if its my milk... I'm on antibiotics cause of mastitis and its really affected her. She finds it hard to poo and has diarrhoea after feeds.

I completely broke down earlier as I'm thinking this isn't good, she's making me ill (fusses in my breast that is already sore and I'm making her ill with crappy milk ). Feels like I have no choice and should go to formula. I really don't want to but this is my 2nd bout of infection and I can't do it again sad

Feel like such a failure... I couldn't give birth and ended up with a ecs and now I can't even fed. I feel so useless

rowingdowntheriver Fri 11-Jan-13 04:35:25

Sleeping through the night? Not in this house! Even on those nights where the 11 week old does manage a decent stretch (rare), then the 22 month old wakes. Infact, since DS2 was born DS1 has been sleeping terribly, he always used to be good.

To lane and the others talking about mouldy rooms, we bought ourselves a dehumidifier recently as we get a lot of condensation in our house. I'd recommend getting one as ours is sucking 5 litres of water out of the air every two days. Admittedly it is in the room where we dry the laundry.

Will try catching up on rest of thread, but it moves so fast that I can't keep up (plus I have discovered a right move addiction and can't stop searching for my dream house in the middle of the night)

StuntNun Fri 11-Jan-13 04:41:50

Now on the fifth feed. He's eight weeks Nilly. I was on antibiotics when my CS scar got infected Candy and J had 'loose bowels' as my mum would say. I took probiotics to help his gut flora (and mine) recover. Don't get disheartened now Candy, you're getting to the easy bit. Yes J is feeding frequently tonight, possibly he's under the weather as he's very blocked up, but he latches on so easily now. A few more weeks and my breasts won't be getting engorged any more. Then it's plain sailing until he's weaned. I can smell the Karvol plugin is working which should clear his nose. Maybe I will get a bit more sleep before morning.

StuntNun Fri 11-Jan-13 04:51:49

Don't feel like a failure for having a section Candy. I had one with DS1 and with DS3, both emergencies. DS1 would have died without it (and came pretty close). DS3 was transverse and wouldn't come out. My babies would not have been liveborn without the sections, it isn't a matter of success or failure, it's about getting baby delivered safely. I'm sure your situation was similar but the trauma can mess with your head afterwards. Now I don't know how DS2 managed to get out the normal way. If when I have a fourth child it will have to be an ELCS as there's too much damage for a normal delivery now but you wouldn't call me a failure so don't go blaming yourself about it hun. It was a medical necessity no more, no less.

rowingdowntheriver Fri 11-Jan-13 04:55:55

Oh candy, please don't feel useless. You are doing amazingly.

Needing an EMC is both normal and common and in no way should you feel like you have failed by needing one.

Breastfeeding is so hard and fraught with trials. It is also different for each mother and baby. You have done fantastically in getting so far. There is absolutely nothing to feel bad about if you move to formula.

katkit1 Fri 11-Jan-13 05:11:46

Candy - an emcs is not a failure, making sure your baby arrived safely and you are well is the only importance. Breastfeeding is a bloody tough business - I think we all need to congratulate ourselves more and be a bit kinder. Never feel guilty about your choices.

blonderthanred Fri 11-Jan-13 05:14:28

Candy I have felt like that about the CS, and L's failure to gain weight. I know rationally it doesn't matter how he came out but I have said exactly those words when I've been feeling down. A friend who's had both CS and VB said she really didn't consider one of her births more successful than the other. But I know it is hard when you are feeling vulnerable and exhausted.

I can't quite believe I am sitting up at 5.15am hooked up to a breast pump.

katkit1 Fri 11-Jan-13 05:18:54

I had an emcs - just very, very glad Alex arrived safe and well.

katkit1 Fri 11-Jan-13 05:26:36

I can't say I find breastfeeding easy yet - milk seems only to be coming in which may be due to constant demands for food and a possible growth spurt. Breastfeeding has never been like those daft pictures with a calm baby and a smiling mother.

ValiumQueen Fri 11-Jan-13 05:28:29

Oh candy I too have felt like that. You are so not a failure! Nothing you describe is anything other than normal. Now, look at your beautiful little girl. Look at her little hands and feet, chubby little legs, her ears, her nose etc. You made her. You gave her life. She got stuck coming out but thankfully we have the skilled medics to save mums and babies in that situation. Breast feeding is bloody hard. It is suck a selfless thing to do. Especially with soreness. Your milk is not bad. It is magic wonderfulness that your body makes for your baby! Hugs x

evil that is not an apology. What he said is wicked even if he was tired. If my husband said that he would be shown the door. I would encourage you to make him sweat and stay with your mum for a while. You and n deserve better than that. That is not a loving thing to say at all x

Better night with j but his nose gets so blocked!

MissMummy1 Fri 11-Jan-13 06:41:29

Bollocks. DP has been called out to an emergency. He shouldnt really have come home last night but him and the other crew split the shift because theres just one boat in just now and we are a 5 min drive from docks . Now that boat has failed. confused When his phone went though I was in that half asleep stage where id just fed m and had put hrr back down. I was dreaming I was still feeding her and got so confused when his pager woke me up (bliddy loud thing!) and she was in her basket!!!blush

evil I think i would be even more angry with that text than his initial behaviour! What a twunt. sad angry

Sophiathesnowfairy Fri 11-Jan-13 07:05:01

candy I know how you feel but you are not useless. You are wonderful. You are a mum, and all those lovely things vqsays are true. Yu have your family and you do your very best for them. Also, everything really does come together in the end, chains of events take place and later you can look back and see why they were for the best.

evil he needs to say sorry for those words

Brrrr mm he will be cold.

pikz Fri 11-Jan-13 07:41:34

Oh candy massive cuddles. You are in no way a failure. I promise.

I am emcs too and I can't breast feed so express everything. I have frequent meltdowns about the whole thing. In fact I had one about 10 mins ago! Give yourself a break and a big hug.

Bad night here, 2,5,7 and the 7 ended in pee everywhere and then vomit everywhere and me in tears with leaking boobs. Am so close to giving up its not even funny, but then I will feel like I failed at the birth and at feeding hmm

PetiteRaleuse Fri 11-Jan-13 07:46:30

Candy you haven't failed at anything. Again I am angry on behalf of all of you for the cultural pressure making you feel somehow bad for not sneezing out your babies and having trouble with breastfeeding. It's shocking. We all do our best for our children, and giving them the best we can, whether that be a surgical birth to save their or our lives / sanity, or breast milk, or formula milk for whatever reason, is all we can do.

Evil your P needs to strap on a pair and get over his poor little me mentality. You need a genuine apology from him and today. There are no excuses for the vile things he said yesterday.

ValiumQueen Fri 11-Jan-13 08:07:58

pikz you are breastfeeding! You have probably put more effort into breastfeeding than any of us so do not feel like you have failed at that! Don't you dare! Having to express every feed! I am not sure I could have done that. As for the birth.... NOT failing to have assistance.

ValiumQueen Fri 11-Jan-13 08:15:05

And pikz swap to FF if you want to. Nobody would blame you at all. You do not have the knowledge that most breastfeeders have that things will get easier, and it is extremely inconvenient for you. You have the worst of both worlds. All you have is the knowledge that you are giving your baby the best food on the planet. It must be so very tiring and upsetting for you. Incredibly brave, strong and selfless IMO!

Sophiathesnowfairy Fri 11-Jan-13 08:21:20

candy I can't breast feed, I have tried with 3 out of 4 of mine. I have no medical excuses and this time had a perfect birth ( not so with the others) I just can't do it. I have come through the failure feeling, has taken till number four, as I have realised there is stuff I can do well, I do the routine stuff pretty good and I'm ok at weaning and what I am best at is giving them stacks and stacks of love. There is a book I think called " what mother do" I haven't read it. Ut have heard it is good. Might have a look.

PetiteRaleuse Fri 11-Jan-13 08:22:46

Hang on, pikz you have been expressing all your milk all this time? You are not a failure you are awesome, there is no way I could have been dedicated enough to do that. As vq says no-one would judge you if you switched, or mixed, or whatever you choose to give yourself a well deserved break.

Sophiathesnowfairy Fri 11-Jan-13 08:23:22


Actually having read the overview just now think it is a must read.

Lane81 Fri 11-Jan-13 08:29:49

Gosh, evil, I'm speechless. DH would be out for that, and TBH my MIL would probably have chucked him out on my behalf before I did it. In no way acceptable.

To those who had EMCS, it's the first act of care for your baby-doing what's necessary to make sure your baby is ok, without regard to your own body/danger. It's major surgery. You are not a failure.

WRT to mixed feeding, we don't do it every day, but it really was the best decision for me. Less pain, can share the load, baby still getting some benefits but most importantly started to put on weight. I don't consider myself a failure, though the pressure is there to make me feel that way. Instead I think that I have put so much thought and love into my decision that, ultimately, it shows I'm not a failure as a parent. Many many children, including ones in 'normal' households don't get that.

Lane81 Fri 11-Jan-13 08:34:19

Ps thanks for humidifier tip! Which one do you use? 5 litres!

rowingdowntheriver Fri 11-Jan-13 08:34:33

Moan warning!!

Just had big argument with DP, ended up with me throwing the breakfast and tea I had just made for him in the bin, him using the 'I'm at work all day, all you have to do is look after the children' and then telling me there is no way we are going to be buying a new house together now. There were quite a few f***'s thrown in there by each of us sad angry

There is pretty much nothing that is guaranteed to wind me up more than the 'I work all day' line. I had a really good career before DS1, I have the same qualifications as him, worked in the same industry as him and in the past have even done the same job as him. If I wanted to be really nasty I'd point out that I was better at it than him hence why I got paid a fair whack more than him too. I know what he does and how hard it is and I also know how bloody hard it is being home with 2 kids and doing all the household shit too. Gah

ValiumQueen Fri 11-Jan-13 08:39:43

I have not had a meltdown for a bit thankfully. I slept better last night and J only fed twice between 10.15 and 8. He woke a few times but self settled mostly. Had a comfort suck a couple of times.

I may try just one bottle of formula over the weekend if I have any more bad nights. I will continue to express when I can to limit the amount of possible formula intake, but I am tired. Not today though. Feel quite bouncy in fact!

KissysUnderTheMisteltoe Fri 11-Jan-13 08:48:47

Candy you are so not a failure. I had an EMCS last time and ELCS this time. What matters is that our beautiful babies arrived into this world safely. The exit they took isn't important smile

Pikz you are doing an amazing job, I don't think I could do what you are doing, be kind to yourself x

Evil hugs, words fail me about your P! Hope he sees the error of his ways and makes a proper apology

Catbag Fri 11-Jan-13 08:50:05

Evil That was not an apology, it was more sniping. Frankly, I echo the others- my DH would be frikkin homeless after sending me a text like that and he would know it too.

CandyPop Fri 11-Jan-13 08:51:20

Thank you everyone smile reading your posts just made me cry again smile (in a glad to have your support way).

When I'm rational I know the emcs was needed but when I'm down the trama of it all always manages to worm it's way back. I think I gave myself unnecessary pressure thinking cause I couldnt give birth naturally breath the baby out nct yoga bollocks that i would make up for it by breastfeeding.... And now things haven't been straight forward it sometimes get me down especially when im having a bad night and sleep deprived!

CandyPop Fri 11-Jan-13 08:57:17

evil that is opposite of an a

Hello all! Trying to catch up, didn't even realise there was another thread, found it and theres 7 pages!

evil your P sounds like a right dick, I think Id leave for a while if dh said that to me. V nasty.

BigPigLittlePig Fri 11-Jan-13 09:01:16

Morning all, gosh it's been a busy night for you all on here!

Evil that sounds awful you poor thing, hope you can manage to drag out get an apology from him today and get everything sorted.

Was also guilty of a meltdown last night. Have been ebf little pig, and can only assume she's going through the dreaded growth spurt atm, as she fed non-stop from 8.30-10.30 last night. Part way through when I'd stopped for a minute to allow boobs to temporarily recover, she started screaming for more, so ran naked downstairs with baby in tow, deposited her on dp who was asleep (again) on the sofa, and warbled "I just can't, don't know, I, oh, take her please".

2 mins later felt bad she was crying for feed so went back downstairs and got her. DP not sure what to make of these antics I'm sure. He keeps suggesting switching to ff or mixed, but despite my moans I feel quite emotional about doing it, so am going to try to keep going.

Pikx - I am in awe to you!
Rowing that could be a heated debate conversation straight from our house!

CandyPop Fri 11-Jan-13 09:02:07

Oops posted to quickly,

evil that is opposite to an apology! I would say *sorry that a common cold renders you pathetic and useless, sorry to think you have share responsibility for your own children, sorry that as an grown man you still think its ok to pass on responsibility to your mother even though you can do it yourself, sorry to think that you were capable to make your own dinner once in awhile' I guess that wouldn't help the situation but wouldn't it be great if you could!

Catbag Fri 11-Jan-13 09:02:36

candy Be a little kinder to yourself. I have the same feelings about my emcs but I have noticed that it is me judging myself in a way I would never do to a friend who had one.

pikz You express EVERY feed?! Legend.

rowing There has been a tiny bit of career tension in our house too, but mostly because DH can walk straight into a job in his chosen career and regardless of the twins, I would still need to do a postgraduate level training course. Of course, with the twins, I have put myself back several years anyway. Luckily he has a job to to once he has finished uni and in fact he has been more sensitive to how I migt feel about this all than maybe even I am. If he EVER threw that at me in the way that your DH just has, I would be distraught. There really is no need for it.

BigPigLittlePig Fri 11-Jan-13 09:04:35

Candy - breath the baby out - I nearly slapped the midwife who kept saying this to me. Ditto "breath the pain away" if that was possible there's be no need for epidurals now would there

horseylady Fri 11-Jan-13 09:12:28

Candy - hopefully the trauma will pass. Three Saturday's ago I didn't spend the whole day Going over the labour. What will happen at a year is anyone's guess. It also took me a while to get round not bf. I read a book called bottled up which I could have actually written!! And fearless formula feeder is a good website too.

Evil - no words!! My temper would have got the better of me I think.

Vq - yay for bounciness

Pikz - hugs again!!

Ds had a screaming fit last night. dh said what's wrong with him? I had no idea!! He was fed, clean happy then he just screamed. So after 20 minutes we decided to start his bedtime routine and he calmed down?! Then started laughing?! Babies.....complete mystery!!

NotSoNervous Fri 11-Jan-13 09:18:51

Marking place. My internets broke confused stupid virgin won't come and fix it for 2 fecking weeks so I won't be able to catch up an no doubt they'll be a couple more threads competed in 2 weeks grin

rowingdowntheriver Fri 11-Jan-13 09:35:53

lane, the dehumidifier is a delonghi aria dry slim or something like that!

pikz Fri 11-Jan-13 09:53:53

Thank you everyone for your kindness, it keeps making me cry! Stinking cold and tiredness not a good combo.

Outfit 5, sleeping bag 2, sheet changes 2, bibs 2, muslins 5.

Baby 1- mummy 0

Lane81 Fri 11-Jan-13 10:19:08

Thanks rowing!!! smile

Lane81 Fri 11-Jan-13 10:26:17

Thanks horsey for that fearless formula website, it's really needed. I'll pass that to friends.

We give about 4 bottles per week, and it's amazing the difference it makes sleep wise.

Evilwater Fri 11-Jan-13 10:33:28

Thanks for all your support. I'm sat here not knowing what to do. My wad says leave him, but the rest says stay and give another chance. I'm so confused.
I don't know what to do.

Evilwater Fri 11-Jan-13 10:33:59

Wad, should say head.

evil your dp doesn't car if you and LO die in the car??? OMFG there is absolutely no excuse in the world for that - no apology could make me forgive that!! Hope your ok x

pikz, candy & vq I bf but have given one ff each night at 10pm which started when Dottie was 1 week old - I really did not want to give formula so tried to express 8ozs per day to give her but was getting so strung out - for me it really helps as I cannot function without sleep and Dottie is still getting the best from me - do what you've got to do to keep your sanity and forget about what anyone else thinks/says xx

Although I moan about dh and his lack of help around the house which he does if directed I just have to accept he honestly doesn't see the pile of washing or dog hair all over the floor lol he would never say all I do is sit at home with the kids - in fact we joke that he sits on his arse at work all day at a pc. And he's very supportive of me going to uni even though we'll be skint for the next 3 years!! I do love him most of the time

I'm feeling really fed up today - I am sooooo hacked off with my boy (13) he does not do his chores, even though I nag him to iron uniform and pack lunch at night so in the morning he's not in the way of everyone else he still doesn't and will come down in yesterday's uniform and I have to tell him to change underwear �� and to shower and to brush teeth and to generally breath!!! All he's interested in is his phone and Xbox where as dd1 is a little star always nags for a bath every night, brushes her teeth all the time and generally smells lovely!!! Anyone else got older kids?? He's as much work as

And another reason I'm soooo fed up is yesterday and today I had arrangements with a couple of girls from work to meet for lunch which I was looking forward to and both cancelled hmm I know it happens but I was sooo looking forward to seeing other people and having a catch up and now I'm all woe is me ��

Sorry for the self pitying post - I'm off to bed to sleep through the fed up ness!!!

BigPigLittlePig Fri 11-Jan-13 10:53:17

Little pig is currently being instructed in the sounds of my youth - am dancing around the room and singing to her - it is the only thing stopping her crying. Strange as usually my singing is what makes people cry hmm

Catbag Fri 11-Jan-13 10:54:01

evil I don't say this lightly, but I would go or at least make him go. My DH has said some thoughtless things over the years, like a couple of days ago when he was complaining about not getting much sleep. I haven't had a good night's sleep since the week before Ifound out I was pregnant, as I reminded him. However, that was just thoughtless. What your DH said, and then texted, was just nasty and is no way my DH would EVER say anything lie that, no matter how tired he was. It was horrible and it would take a damn sight more than even a genuine apology to fix that. I am sure that you will do what's right for you, and the decision must be yours- we can just tell you what we would do in similar situations. I really feel for you. Please do talk to your RL friends, but we are here too. thanks

Catbag Fri 11-Jan-13 11:01:35

Glenda I have a 13 yo DS too- I share your pain! Funnily enough, my 10 yo DD is just like your younger one, with the teethbrushing, bathing etc. She also cleans the kitchen like a boss. DS has some redeeming features though, which is probably why he still has a roof over his head! He is very paternal and, as the eldest, marshalls his four younger sib.ings around very well. He is brilliant with the twins and he is pretty handsome too cannot tidy hisbedroom or clean his teeth though apparently grin

Dixie why dont you but a cheap white sleepsuit/tshirt and use fabric pens or marker pens (sharpies are good) to draw polka dots on? then you can bin them afterwards if you want and you havent spent alot of money?

TooManyDicksOnTheDancefloor Fri 11-Jan-13 11:04:59

Hugs to all who are upset.

evil, you need to sit down and calmly explain things to him, he obviously doesn't see that he is doing anything wrong. The comment he made was disgusting.

candy, I had a natural birth with dd1 and EMC with dd2. She was stuck and wouldn't have come out without it. Having done it both ways I know that having a section is not failing, some babies just don't come out the right way. Don't stress it, at least your fanjo is still in tact unlike mine.
As for breastfeeding, I had problems last time at around 8 weeks, dd1 kept arching her back, screaming at the breast. Everyone told me to put her on formula as I obviously wasn't producing enough milk. I cried solidly for a week until I went to a baby cafe for advice. Turns out she was a highly efficient feeder and I was trying to over feed her. She only fed for 5 mins every four hours from then on. Are there any baby cafe groups/ breastfeeding groups near you? They are great for advice and support.

pikz , I bow to your greatness, that is all.

Sorry, that was epic.

buy not but!

StuntNun Fri 11-Jan-13 11:08:36

For the exclusively breastfeeding mums, I started giving one bottle of formula a day to DS1 when he started solids (which was at four months back then, ten years ago shock). I will do the same when J starts weaning at six months. If you are feeling like bfing is getting you down why not make a plan to introduce a bottle of formula at x months. That way you have a goal to aim for.

Sophiathesnowfairy Fri 11-Jan-13 11:12:53

glenda has happened to me too! I was meant to go onto work next week and was really looking fwd to it as I don't speak to many adults in the week and today my boss as cancelled. I was near to tears. confused

I was also a bit cross as he didn't say till I dropped a note to check which day and he did oh I'm in Stockholm all next week I will have to cancel. Was he going to say anything or not? Grr

blonderthanred Fri 11-Jan-13 11:33:49

Well the end of our ebf journey has come despite the tongue tie fix. He has only put on 45g in 9 days and has dipped below the 0.4 centile.

GP & HV obviously very concerned and want me to offer a 3oz formula top up after every bf to try and get his weight up. As I'm up to expressing 5oz a day I asked if a couple of the top ups could be ebm but they said no. Which was odd I thought. Not as odd as the GP saying I shouldn't express at all as 'the baby would miss out on the colostrum'. Wtf?! I assume he means hind milk.

Anyway I agree that he needs some extra calories and I'm going to give the formula but also express to keep my supply up and hopefully return to ebf or ebmf in the future. I really hope I'm doing the right thing.

GTbaby Fri 11-Jan-13 11:57:03

Asda have some good deals on nappies. Including 104 pampers nappies for £12. Size 3 upwards. So could stock up! Right off to catch up on this mornings chat.

pikz Fri 11-Jan-13 11:59:40

Oh blonder I am sorry. Big hugs.

I don't see why it can't be EBM though. Means they still know how much he is getting. But they must know better.

That's sounds like a good plan blonder Although I don't see why you can't use the EBM for top up although try may be concerned that its only foremilk? WtF with your GP and colostrum confused

Evil I echo everyone else. DH would have to do some serious grovelling if that was him. The text he sent doesn't even sound like an apology, just passive aggressive excuses that's putting the blame on you. Just because it contains that word sorry a few times doesn't mean it's an apology. You have to do what's best for you but I'd be laying down the law if I was to go back

M fed quite a lot during the night and slept in with me. So far today she's been chirpy so I'm hoping the growth spurt has passed. We're going away for the night tomorrow for a party so I don't want a grumpy baby. That reminds me, I need to pack.

Detective I keep meaning to say, that pram you posted on FB, a girl on my FB has a similar one but the leopard is normal coloured. Her boyfriend has a matching leopard print dressing gown too hmm
But even better I went on FB yesterday and a man I went to school with has that exact pram and matching car seat I the pink leopard for sale!! That'd solve your annoying pram issues grin it's brand new never used! shock

MissMummy1 Fri 11-Jan-13 12:21:30

Evil I would be doing some serious thinking right now. Can you stay with your mum for a few days to get your head straight? Does your mum know whats going on? Hugs xxx

I've also had the "you just sit around doing nothing all day" comments. Or more recently since M and me started doing a few baby groups and getting into a routine "you have the life of riley while I go to work to pay for it all". This really pisses me off as this has been the first winter where the roles have been reversed - in the past his work has always dried up over winter and we've been entirely dependant on my student loan and small business income. Prat. I think hope he's joking when he says it, I:m getting close to having a full on meltdown with him next time...

Passmethecrisps Fri 11-Jan-13 12:35:54

Blimey! We've all had a busy few days!

pikz I expressed for a fortnight and it nearly made me lose it. As VQ says it is the worst of both worlds with no respite. You are a champion. Mind you, we are all champions as I have come to the conclusion that there is no job harder than this one.

VQ I am so pleased you are bouncing

evil that was in no way an apology. It was pure bile and he needs to acknowledge that. With a newborn in the house there is no 'free time' - not for either parent.

Belated happy birthday horsey

ValiumQueen Fri 11-Jan-13 12:41:43

blonder I think that is a good plan. For some reason he is not gaining weight. At the moment they are blaming the breast milk. With top ups of formula he will either gain weight, so problem solved, or he will not and they will start looking for reasons why. He is 11 weeks old. You have done remarkably well. Keep expressing, but not if it makes you feel worse or tired. Do not blame yourself at all whatever happens. I saw my friends child who is a day older than my 2yo who will be three in april, and the little girl is still in 9-12 clothes. She was tiny. Never had a drop of bm, was premature, but not hugely so. Big hugs and share how you are feeling. It is a sad day but try to embrace it as progress. At this stage it is in your sons best interest x x x

ValiumQueen Fri 11-Jan-13 12:48:52

Alas I have lost my bounce. I have been defeated by a 2yo whose bounce simply cannot be competed with.

I deffo plan to give a bit of formula when solids are introduced. I am trying thawed ebm on boy tonight, or at least daddy is. I left baby with DH when I did school run and he pooed and vommed over him. It was really hard not smiling.

evil I keep thinking about what your P said last night. Do talk to RL friends and family. That is really a shocking thing to say and calls doubt on your safety with him. He should be protective and loving of you and your son. Even if he was pissed up or had not slept for a week, there would never be a valid excuse to say that. He needs to crawl over broken glass to prove his love IMO x

pikz Fri 11-Jan-13 12:55:24

8 hours since the vomming, peeing, pooing and crying party started we have an asleep baby.


GTbaby Fri 11-Jan-13 13:06:30

Evil ur txt reply should read - in no way does being sick, being asked to help, not having time to rest justify wanting me n LO dead in a car crash.

DH says some awful things sometimes. But the only way he understands what he has said is to hear what he said. It's almost like he forgets what he has said the second he has said it. So IF u txt him today u need to make clear, no matter the situation "wishing u and LO dead is unacceptable". N no matter how he justifies it. What he says. Keep repeating that's line until he genuinely apologises.

I hope I haven't over stepped the line, I know it's always easy to complain about my DH, but when other ppl join in I get defensive of him. Im stupid I know. wink just concentrate on LO n let ur mum look after u x

Evilwater Fri 11-Jan-13 13:07:33

This is how your txt reads to me.
sorry that a common cold renders you pathetic and useless, sorry to think you have share responsibility for your own child, sorry that as an grown man you still think its ok to pass on responsibility to your mother even though you can do it yourself, sorry to think that you were capable to make your own dinner once in awhile' I guess that wouldn't help the situation but wouldn't it be great if you could

This is only part of why I'm mad at you still. You need to give a reason for us to come home, and that nick and I matter.

I'm still waiting for a txt back, I'm in tears. I just want to go home, an be loved.

blonderthanred Fri 11-Jan-13 13:22:26

Thanks for the supportive messages. Just reading through the thread, we have got back up to antenatal speed it seems.

Evil that is just awful. I agree with the others and what Horsey has said. I hope you get a grovelling apology but most importantly a change in attitude.

There are so many inspirational women on this thread. I think you should all be proud of yourselves, you've often kept me going through difficult times. Pikz your feats of expressing are Herculean. Stunt you are the voice of reason. Det you are a fount of knowledge. VQ you do an amazing job with your three and still find time to care for others.

Anyway despite it being Oscar season I shall stop the speech but all of you have reason to congratulate yourselves, not just for making beautiful babies but for going through difficult times and getting others through theirs.

<wipes tear>

ps Dixie I love the idea of you giving your LO a facial.

StuntNun Fri 11-Jan-13 13:23:18

Sorry to hear that Blonder, what percentile was he born on? Have you considered phoning a breastfeeding support group. If you don't agree with giving formula then you don't have to. Are they saying there's something wrong with your milk, that it isn't nutritious enough? If you're managing to express several ounces from one breast at a time then it would contain plenty of hindmilk. It is entirely your decision on what to do so make sure you are happy with whatever you decide. If you welcome the idea of a formula top up for taking the pressure off you then do so. The 0.4 percentile is still within the normal range and my older boys both spent time on it which was concerning but both recovered slightly over time. When I was in a similar position with DS1 I felt so unsupported by the midwife that I stopped going to any appointments and carried on breastfeeding. I am a great believer in mothers' instinct. If it goes against your instinct to offer formula then don't do it. If you feel that this is the right time to introduce formula top ups then do so and don't fret about it.

I have just asked my mum (who's a HV) about it and she says she can't really comment as she hasn't seen you but they need to tell you why they want you to give a formula top up. Her reaction was that you should just breastfeed your baby and not bother with any expressing, let the baby take how much he wants. I hope you're receiving specialist advice rather than a GP who may not be an expert in your situation.

PetiteRaleuse Fri 11-Jan-13 13:35:37

Evil I'm not surprised you are feeling this way. Has he ever acted in this way before? Do you have any reason at all to doubt your or N's safety around him? And thirdly if this was usual behaviour for how long will you be able to handle having your self esteem trampled on like that? And for how long do you think you should. No need to answer that by the way.

You've just given birth to his son, and N hasn't been easy for you to manage with the colic etc. Anyone who is anything less than supportive really doesn't need to be around you right now.

Hope you're ok, and that this really is a blip. If not then please surround yourself with people who are on your side, in rl or online.

Blonder I'm sorry they have asked you to supplement. It must be very disappointing.

Lane81 Fri 11-Jan-13 13:39:23

Blonder I had the exact same issues and started giving 4oz and LO has gone from 1st to 9th percentile, and I haven't done it after every feed like they said, just once a day. Like VQ says if your LO doesn't gain weight they can rule it out and start looking for the real cause.

However you don't have to so anything you don't want to do, thinking of you, it's so tough when they don't gain weight.

PetiteRaleuse Fri 11-Jan-13 13:49:15

Ooh I've popped my MN cherry: one of my posts was deleted on another thread.

ValiumQueen Fri 11-Jan-13 13:55:57

What did you say PR ?

Asda baby event 21st Jan. 17 th online

StuntNun Fri 11-Jan-13 13:56:21

Naughty PR, whatever did you say? If it was the one on crisps then PM me cos I'll happily post some pickled onion Monster Munch to you!

Dixiebell Fri 11-Jan-13 14:01:48

Haha blonder, he is quite spotty, maybe a facial would help?!

Have just discovered Amazon subscribe and save. You sign up to regular deliveries of products (I've done nappies and wipes), and get 10% off usual price. Can cancel anytime. Also Sainsbury's have 1/3 off all baby products at mo.

blonderthanred Fri 11-Jan-13 14:06:56

Thanks Stunt & PR.

He was born at 50th but had a big drop straight after (GD & CS) so think he prob should have been 25th. He's dropped every week, always gaining but never enough (80-100g/wk). I've resisted formula from the start as I felt there was no need & been to bf groups and spoken to LLL who agreed. I've tried everything I can think of to feed him more but it sounds like the TT was stopping him taking in enough milk.

As we've finally got the TT fixed I hoped that would see us turning a corner. But he had only gained 45g in 9 days and has dropped well below the 0.4 line (he was just below it last time).

Even the TT consultant (who is an IBCLC) said yesterday that she thinks he does need a boost at this stage and thought giving him formula as a temporary measure would be a good idea but to keep up with expressing.

If he had put on a bit more this week I'd have held out but it could take a couple of weeks for my supply to increase and I don't want him to become ill. I think it is the right time and for the right reasons. And if I can get my supply up then in a few weeks perhaps we can phase the formula out again.

Sorry very long me me me post.

Oooh VQ that reminds me, Tesco baby event is on now

StuntNun Fri 11-Jan-13 14:18:09

That sounds really tough Blonder but you have given it a good amount of time to resolve. I don't see that formula milk is any more nutritious than breastmilk but I'm sure by this stage you'll do anything to get some improvement in his weight. Hopefully you can make this work for you as well as baby, by giving you a bit of respite from his feeding. Expressing is hard work so you can get a break from that.

horseylady Fri 11-Jan-13 14:20:36

Wow blonder. Big hugs. Sounds like you are making the right decision and I'm sure you can go back to ebf if needed. You've done everything possible but do what you feel comfortable with.

Do you think he needs the formula top ups or are you happy that he is a generally happy, healthy baby?

We went to a baby sensory room!!! Lots of lights and free!! Ds thought he's died and gone to heaven. We had a similar result in the light section of b&q smile

Awwwww blonder that sucks - has your local hospital/area got a lactation consultant/infant feeding specialist midwife - they could help you formulate a plan and can provide back up against HV/GP if you really don't want to introduce formula - if you haven't got one in area ours in south Essex is on twitter and maybe able to offer support?? She's @feedingtogether

ValiumQueen Fri 11-Jan-13 14:33:21

blonder one thing you can never be accused of is being 'me me me' thanks

PetiteRaleuse Fri 11-Jan-13 14:36:00

Aw that's sweet Stunt but I didn't get deleted for drooling over monster munch. Ooh I've started craving again.

No it was on the boots/ formula advertising thread. Someone came on and started berating women who didn't bf, and was particularly vile to a poster who said she felt bf was linked to her pnd. So I called a spade a spade. Except I used a different word.

I rarely lose my temper on here, but those threads can get quite nasty.

grin at idea of baby sensory room vs DIY store. <Plans weekend trip to light fittings shop>

DD1 currently listening to /watching Gangnam Style on youtube on a loop. She's getting quite good at the moves. Makes it all worth it when theu are hilarious like that.

KissysUnderTheMisteltoe Fri 11-Jan-13 14:50:45

Hugs blonder - no harm in topping him up for a bit to give him a boost if you keep expressing too. You're doing an amazing job thanks

blonderthanred Fri 11-Jan-13 15:24:42

I think until this week I would have said he was ok apart from the weight. And every hcp until now has said he looks happy and healthy. This week though he does look a bit thin. Still smiley and alert, but maybe a tiny bit pinched.

I would love to give him ebm as the top up but at the moment I can't produce enough. So that's why I think this is the right time for formula. I will work hard on increasing my supply and review in a week or two. Will go to bf group to look at his latch post TT snip.

So many fantastic mothers on here ff or mix feed and just like with vb or CS there are lots of different reasons but we all want the best for our babies and in my case I think this is it.

PetiteRaleuse Fri 11-Jan-13 15:33:45

We can all only do our best. There is no reason why you can't keep up your supply if he keeps on bf'ing and you top up with formula. It may not be how you envisaged it but we have another 18+ years of making tough decisions for our children. The formula certainly won't do any harm to his weight (or to him).

horseylady Fri 11-Jan-13 15:46:42

Blonder you've done brilliantly well!! Must be so worrying!! I only had the worry for two weeks!! Here's to him putting on more weight!!

GTbaby Fri 11-Jan-13 16:20:42

Horsey Thanks for the formula feeder site.
At baby massage other day 2 of the ladies start breast feeding n I admit I was willing LO all way thro not to be hungry. Was ok Until last 5 mins n I had to get bottle out. I did feel so self conscious. The ladies did nothing to mk me feel bad n I know it was in my head. One asked about what formulas I tried as she wanted to introduce a feed. I have a feeling I will always carry this ff guilt.

On a slightly related note. Anyone done/ thinking about doing a weaning course. I got an email from nct other day. Am considering it.

Right my turn for eye brow threading

ValiumQueen Fri 11-Jan-13 17:15:25

horsey that formula site makes for interesting reading. I am also having a fight in my head about B&M and formula, with formula being 'white poison' which I KNOW is bollocks! My concern at the moment is that I am being cruel to him by NOT giving him formula. I am thinking his poor sleep is because I am starving him. But he is a cuddly baby. No idea how much he weighs, but he is growing in fatness daily. He pees and poos for Scotland. I have no concerns about his being adequately nourished.

I think at 3 months I will start with 1 bottle of formula a day, in the evening when he gets most distressed feeding, and I am most in need of a break. I will stop expressing then, as I really find it hard. I have got 1oz today as DD2 was playing up. I have enough to do already without that. I feel like I should ask you guys if that is ok...but I need to say to myself what I would say to any of you, don't I? I guess I am thinking aloud.

ValiumQueen Fri 11-Jan-13 17:16:36

B&M? Bm obviously!

PetiteRaleuse Fri 11-Jan-13 17:31:43

Valium my mum says that with each child she bf less and less. Eldest sister was ebf until toddlerhood. My younger brother only a few weeks. She says it didn't make any difference as far as sleep is concerned.

The Fearless Formula Feeder site is very good. I came across it last year as being pretty much the only site which supports formula feeders (and there isn't any bashing of breast feeders, which is more than can be said for certain bf sites). There some really interesting, sometimes sad, stories on there. Those of you struggling with guilt about ff might even find it cathartic to submit something of your own.

horseylady Fri 11-Jan-13 17:33:29

gt my guilt has gone. Randomly the evil coffee shop woman was what I needed lol!! I just get the bottle out now. I think that website and certainly her book really really helped me.

I honestly honestly think breast is best. But to coin chunkys phrase 'formula is more like silver'. It's come on so much now days. Its missing antibodies and friendly bacteria for the gut. By eight weeks babies can make their own antibodies. You're just protecting the lining of the gut. Not that long ago babies were being weaned under medical guidance at 15 weeks if not before. Suddenly we can't to prevent allergies.

My eyes have recently been opened very widely to mums who sleep their babies on their bellies with an angel monitor and who started weaning early as the baby was ready. They mix feed formula and breast and have done from 8-12 weeks (some earlier). They don't worry about getting the baby weighed so frequently and you know what. They're fine!! Mums are happy as they're getting some sleep - thus making them safer mums with happier non sleepy babies. When you look at the stats they are so so small.

If you can and want to breast feed please do. You are honestly amazing. I never knew how hard it was to establish and the emotions involved. I still wish I'd had the choice to make. I might have stopped though. I can't say. Just don't feel guilty. You made that decision at the time.

TheDetective Fri 11-Jan-13 17:40:54

Afternoon ladies! I'm a new woman today! DP has sufficiently recovered to allow me to sleep. Til 2pm. blush. Feel slightly guilty, but then I did all the night feeds last night, and he did the school run this morning, then took Oscar downstairs at 9.30. And I only got to sleep at 2am, so I feel less bad. However I am quite sure I will struggle to sleep tonight, so have dispatched him for some Nytol (he is doing the afternoon school run, as he is quite keen to get out the house grin ).

Am on the laptop yippeeee, so will try and get catching up and replying properly!!

Evil Your DP has not yet apologised. Yes he is tired, and not well, and tooth pain is particularly awful, I've had it enough, and been hospitalised with it. But life with children does not stop. It does not excuse in any way what he said. He has got a hell of a lot of making up to do, and apologising. I hope he has text you by now. I know that feeling of sending an ultimatum type text and then getting no response with in an acceptable time frame (ie. 2 minutes!!). I am sure I have thought many horrible things in moments of sleep deprivation, and probably said some nasty things along the way, but not to the point of wishing my partner and child dead!!!! I do remember telling DP I didn't love him, which is a horrible thing to say, but I was at the end of my tether, and I did apologise for it, and did not mean it. He knew I did not. He knew I was just being a hormonal irrational cow. So people do say horrible things in the heat of the moment, but that seems so unforgivable - but of course, we do forgive (if not forget) don't we. Because we want to keep our family together. I think some men (and women, not to be sexist!) play on that... Remember, keep chatting on here, get your feelings out. There is a lot of good advice and sympathy to be had. I wish I had this when I had my first DS.

Ok, so Oscar is now awake. Will keep going. He is watching top gear, hiding behind the sheet he is wrapped in, as if it is frightening him. If it keeps him quiet for a minute....!

It didn't, now feeding. One hand typing is so slow. Just put him up to size 2 teats. He is 7 weeks today, started going back to 3 hr feeds and taking 2-3 oz, then maybe 1-2 full bottles out of 8. Figured might be slow teats. This is first attempt with them. He accidently had one at 3 weeks old as Dp didn't know there were different sizes. He struggled that whole feed, then vommed the entire thing back! Seems okay this time! He always fussed a bit with some feeds, latching on and off the teat (same as he did when breastfeeding) so it was hard to tell when to switch up, as I really didn't want a repeat of the vom incident!

Candy I am opening myself up a little here. I spent 10 years going over and over DS1's birth. It was an emergency c/s for failed ventouse. I had so many questions. Doing my midwifery training obviously helped my understanding. I did 'get over it' to a large extent, but it took about 6/7 years. I did however feel that I would never fully accept it until I had been through labour again. This is my irrational brain at work.

Now, in retrospect, I can honestly say, I feel like it doesn't matter how I have given birth. I have suffered complications through both ways. Neither was better than the other. I now think 'whatever' when I think about future births. Did you think I would ever say that, considering how adamant I was for a home birth? I'm over it all now. I've no aspirations to go through a vaginal birth again. Same as I have no aspirations to have a c/s either. I will chose the best way at the time, if it ever happens again. Birth is the culmination of pregnancy, to get the end result. It should be as safe as possible, and should be what the woman wants - whatever it is she does want.

What I am trying, unsuccessfully (!) to say here is, please don't do what I did - and spend years and years wondering, going over it, and all the 'what ifs'. When it comes down to it, as long as you have been safe, you and baby are well, and have recovered, then that is the best birth experience, however that happened. I hope this makes sense, in my clumsy way. It is hard to put things in words, as I don't wish to say the wrong thing.

Pikz You are bloody wonder woman! I can't find time to wash my hair, or take a dump, let alone express 8-10 times a frigging day! grin I stopped breastfeeding when I realised that it was affecting my bond with Oscar. I was dreading feeding him. Dreading every whimper in case he needed feeding. At first I loved it, felt it helped us bond. But it quickly changed during the second week, when I felt breastfeeding was affecting our family, and most of all, DS1. I did not breastfeed him - so having bottlefed before, I felt far less 'guilt' at stopping. I did cry for 2 days over the decision though. I felt guilt because I could breastfeed, but I did not want to spend over an hour breastfeeding each time, when I had already tried a bottle (both EBM and formula) and he was so much quicker with it. I gave it 3 weeks, but he did not get any more efficient at breastfeeding, and the 6 week 'marker' seemed to be a lifetime away. Now he is 7 weeks, I feel like I made the right decision for me. He could not have been exclusively breastfed longer than 5 months, I would of had to and start introudcing formula before that point anyway. I would not of had the time to express, and work full time when he was 5 months. Some people probably could do it, but for me, I would have struggled so much. Expressing at work would have been pretty impossible for me (how ironic huh!). I decided that I can't do it all, so should make the best of what I can do, and that works for me.

For me, if he was my first child, and I had 12 months off work, I would have carried on, with a bottle of ebm, or formula as the last feed at night (by DP) to allow me to get some rest.

If I have another baby, I would breastfeed again. If it fits in with us all, then perfect. If it does not, I would stop. We are all different. Different things suit different families. Yes, breastmilk is the 'gold standard', but no one is perfect, and no one can predict what hurdles will be thrown in their way. We all have to make 'compromises' in every area of life, and this is one of them. I wish my DS1 was not from a 'broken home', but he is. I spent an extra 3 years of my life with a man who eventually made me extremely unhappy, just to try and make things work, so my son would have a happy home. It wasn't worth it. I should have left sooner.

Do you see where I am coming from? Sometimes we just have to do what is right for us, even if it seems the wrong thing, it is not wrong if it is right for you!

Rowing Sorry DH is being a prick. It seems many of our other halves have caught the Twatitis that is going around. Very infectious it seems....

You made his breakfast??! My DS1 doesn't even get his breakfast made for him!! Let alone DP! He doesn't know how lucky he is!

BigPig (I love your name!) I suspect your DP is trying to support you in a cack handed way. Mine did the same, but I felt he was undermining me at the time. I asked screamed at him not to, as I knew what I was doing, and he listened and stopped. Tell your DP you will tell him if you wish to change your current feeding method, as currently you are the one doing all the work, so it is your decision to make. I don't think they realise what an emotive thing it is.

Also, my baby is the only person in the world who loves my singing! He is enthralled by it! It won't last. DS1 hates my singing grin 'IT'S SO EMBARRASSING MUM'!!! Singing and dancing around with Oscar is one of his favourite things to do!

Glenda 10 year old boy who is exactly the same - my sympathies! I don't know what I need to do to kick him up the arse....! However he is fantastic with his little brother when I am here, but the complete opposite when he is with DP! so I try to look at his good point--s--?!!!

Blonder I might have missed, but has he been referred to a specialist regarding his weight? He is gaining, so this is extremely positive. There could be many reasons why his weight is not following the centiles, but that should be looked in to by paediatrics surely? For what it is worth, as a mum, I think I would do what you are, and try formula, if only to show that it does not make a difference to his weight gain. If it does make a difference, then great, just carry on with both. If not, drop it and continue bf. It is a tricky thing to balance, isn't it?!

Just saw your subsequent post... <sobs> I know nothing said in fake italian/american mafia accent! Or at least now I have a baby draining my brain, I don't! These little things really do suck every last ounce out of you -literally in some cases--. grin

PR I got up to page 7 of that thread, before giving up, as it was 35 pages long!!! I did see one of your first posts on there though! I would have posted, but it would have been a waste of my fingers and time! For what it is worth, my view is that formula companies should not advertise, but that the information should be freely available to all on request. My decision on which formula to feed Oscar was purely on cost. Because they are all the same. If it did not suit him, I would have tried the next one up so to speak. Some formulas suit different babies, but they are all the same thing due to regulation of ingredients. No one formula is better than another. Both my babies have had different formula, because they are different babies and they don't make Farleys any more!! My gip with the companies advertisements are that they claim to be better than another brand, they are not!

But I can easily see how BF can contribute to PND. Very easily see... some people are just just self centered twats who can not see that we are all individual and going through individual experiences, and you can not say that someone elses experience is wrong! It is their experience, their feelings! That is why I am so glad we have this thread! It is just so supportive! We should rename ourselves November 12 mummies: No twats present!

Fuck a duck. That was a long post that took me over 2 hours to do. Sorry blush.

PetiteRaleuse Fri 11-Jan-13 17:41:56

I'm absolutely pro breastfeeding as long as I don't have to do it myself. There are lots of reasons why I didn't enjoy it but one of them is that I am literally phobic of milk. I won't even cook with it (though love cheese). I really do cry over spilt milk if I have to clean it up, and I won't do that thing where you test formula temperature by putting some on your hand. I didn't expect to feel so uptight about my own milk but getting in the shower and watching it drip meant I couldn' feel clean. And then waking up with it on my sheets. And seeping through clothes. It made me feel nauseous.

Add to that the general physical pain that is bf'ing and that explains why I chose to mix feed with expressed milk until it dried up of its own accord at which point I suddenly enjoyed parenting much more.

PetiteRaleuse Fri 11-Jan-13 17:43:30

Wow Detective that is a positively EPIC post smile

TheDetective Fri 11-Jan-13 17:49:11

VQ I don't think I noticed much change in the gaps between feeds when I switched to FF. The difference for me was that he was faster, therefore I got more sleep because he was more efficient at feeding. I have no idea if he would have started going longer between feeds, as he has now, if I was still breastfeeding. Possibly he would have done. It is impossible to know!

The 2 differences for me have been that DP can do some feeds, and that he is faster. That is about it.

You have to decide on what point your sanity is questioned! For me, this was very quickly. You have done amazingly well. I am in awe to be honest! To breastfeed a baby exclusively throughout all the shit that has been thrown at you, a DH who has tested your patience, 2 older children who need you, endless vomit, a sick baby... need I say more?! You should be proud! But you should do whatever it is you need to do, if and when you need to do it. Does that make sense!!!! He has been the hardest to feed - you have said that yourself. Remember all babies are different, and each bf experience thus is different. smile

TheDetective Fri 11-Jan-13 17:50:42

That is what happens when you can't get on the laptop for a few days! I hate taking all your advice on here, and support, and not be able to return it!


Bryzoan Fri 11-Jan-13 18:11:07

Blonder - just wanted to say I think you are doing brilliantly. I also think topping up with formula while you build your supply by expressing sounds like a good intermediary step. A wise lactation consultant once said to me "as long as the baby is fed, you keep your supply up, and you keep giving the baby opportunities at the breast, it will all work itself out". In my case (with dd1) it took 3 months - but we got there and bf for another year so although it was he'll at the time it was worth it for us. Be proud if what you are achieving, keep pumping and try to keep smiling.

ValiumQueen Fri 11-Jan-13 18:23:29

Thank you detective what you say makes sense.

It is reassuring to hear of others successfully mix-feeding. I do not want my milk to dry up. I want to continue feeding, just not every bloody hour! I also want DH to share the work too. It seems whenever DS squeaks, he is left to me as he must be hungry. Could be many things, but it is always down to me.

blonderthanred Fri 11-Jan-13 18:38:19

Thank you Bry that is just what I needed to hear.

Well he has had 2 x 3oz bottles of Aptamil following the last 2 bfs and disappointingly he did not say but Mummy this is not your delicious milk, just drank it. There's gratitude for you. VQ he has been more sleepy in between but it could just be his system getting used to it, or the sheer volume of breast+ff.

What I obviously do not want is to be feeding less often as that would be counterproductive so I am going to keep an eye on this. I may not top up the night feeds for this reason and the hassle.

I am using ready made cartons btw. I think I need to make this as easy as possible!

Love the epic post Det and very interesting to hear your perspective on the CS/VB issue.

PetiteRaleuse Fri 11-Jan-13 18:41:56

I think mix feeding can be ideal as long as you watch your supply (unless like me that isn't the priority). Being able to share the workload genuinely does help maintain sanity and ensuresactive participation from both parents. For those that do worry if baby is getting enough they can see for themselves that baby is feeding.

PetiteRaleuse Fri 11-Jan-13 18:44:28

Ooh ready made cartons rock. I was given loads at the hospital and kept them for outings. Impossible to buy them here though - seems only maternity clinics get them. First time round I didn't take enough so persuaded a mw this time to give a few 20 or so extra.

detective that was an epic post lol ds is fab with dots and I appreciate him when he can rock her or amuse her for 10 mins while I go for a wee - I just hate having to nag 20 times a day!!

Anyone concerned with supply issues - try fenugreek capsules - they really work, when we have days when Dottie is feeding constantly and my boobs feel utterly empty I start taking them and the next day I notice an increase though that might also be in response to Dottie sucking me dry but either way I think they work --even though they smell funky!!!

I do love this postnatal club - although we all have our own opinions on childbirth/parenting/feeding etc... And we are all trying to do what we think is right - the support is amazing, no one judges, everyone gives such good advice which is great and often gives a whole new perspective to look at the issue from. And for most of us who haven't got friends who are going through the exact same problems it is such a life line and has certainly made me feel less lonely!!! So big un mumsnet like hugs to you all - we're fab!!!!!

MissMummy1 Fri 11-Jan-13 18:57:30

I agree glenda - you ladies have saved my sanity many times <sob>.

Had a lovely afternoon with an old uni chum and her fiance. Think M has made her very broody and she left nagging her dp to agree to having one confused . Oops!

Oh and I'm getting a cuddle from Jonas on Monday!!!grin Was meant to see him and yw this afternoon but time ran away from me envy

Tonight is mine and M's first whole night on our own. Wish us luck!

TheDetective Fri 11-Jan-13 19:15:29

Sorry blush.


Ok, so I was going to post asking advice about moving up a teat etc, but seems just doing it was the right thing. He took 6oz (offered 7 just incase) in just under 20 minutes. He took it without fuss. He then played for 90 minutes peacefully shock. Then when I saw his sleepy cues, I settled him with in about 3 minutes (as in completely asleep) and able to put down. Popped him in swinging chair, and he has stayed there. For an hour and a half. Fucking. Hell.

Wish I'd done that a week ago. Gah! I must have been starving him, and pissing him off in the same go!!

In his nap, me and DS have made cakes, and a spag bol together while DP played his stupid game. grin

MissMummy1 Fri 11-Jan-13 19:18:10

Going to buy M a swinging chair. Probs just off ebay in case she hates it my child is difficult to amuse . Any advice on a decent one? One of the yoga mums reckon they helped with her sons colic.

PetiteRaleuse Fri 11-Jan-13 19:22:29

I agree glenda. This group rocks.

BigPigLittlePig Fri 11-Jan-13 19:26:50

Goodness detective no wonder that took 2 hours! Glad you like the name - not sure who's the big pig any more given LO's weight gain/capacity to feed. Left LO with DP (all alone) for an hour today after she'd been fed, as needed to pick dsd up from school - they lasted 30 mins before the screaming began (I did warn him, but as it was his birthday he wanted a "quiet" afternoon so sent me on the school run fool). When I returned LO was wailing with a wobbly bottom lip, he was a bit sweaty, and MIL was frantically rocking her with no success..mummy sorted it all though with her mobile milk bar boobs.

Blonder - am secretly hoping LO will sniff disdainfully at ff, and make gestures which mean "no nothing will do other than your milk mummy" but suspect she will unwittitngly guzzle anything down (cue more hormonal tears).

Have to agree with what everyone else has said above, this thread has saved my bacon in the past few days, it's really nice to know other people are suffering going through the same thing and the advice has been really helpful, so thanks everyone smile

DH and dsd currently having heated debate about what exactly dh is doing in the toilet (is it a poo daddy? what are you doing? just TELL me). Help!

mm I'm looking at a couple of swingers on eBay - when dots goes nuts the only thing that calms her other than boob is swinging her in the car seat but I'd like to be able to make a brew or get dressed and not have ape arms from weight of carseat

I'm looking at mamas n papas starlite ones - which don't get v good reviews on here but new are about £130 where as on eBay there's 2 with just over a day to go sitting on £8 & £15 so even if they go to £30/40 as long as it swings will do me

Any swing recommendations???

Have also seen been sucked in by another gimmick tummy with mummy seats which look kinda cool - have always thought babies would prefer tummy time if they were higher up and had more to look at lol

Have stonking headache and I feel exhausted today. Going to have a very early night.

Off to the Cotswolds for our 2 night break on Monday. My parents are going to look after the twins. I can't wait for The Big Sleep! Both girls are full of cold, snotty and coughy but both smiling and as happy as anything. Poor little things.

Had hair cut and eyebrows threaded today so I feel part human, not wiped out and knackered like I usually do.

Hope everyone has a nice weekend smile

blonderthanred Fri 11-Jan-13 19:50:05

garden that is so well deserved. Enjoy your break (and your eyebrows).

BPLP I am also a fan of your name and your LO being LP. Brilliant.

November group, it is agreed: we are ace.

pikz Fri 11-Jan-13 19:59:44

LO and I have just had an epic 4 hour sleep on the sofa. I feel like a different person.

I woke up and read all the amazing stuff on here. I seriously don't know what I would do on days like this without this group. You Re are truly amazing and I feel guilty that as a first timer I have no advice and just take from you all.

VQ do not feel guilty you are a Wonder Woman. Horsey, you, dectective, chunky, yw and loads of others that i m having a mind blank sorry have kept me going at rock bottom on here and all told me I can't feel guilty for wanting to feed my son. We have all given up extraordinary amounts and put our bodies on the line for these babies in their few short weeks of life. We have to look after ourselves too.

Cat bag enjoy your break...you deserve it.

i love the mobile milk bar!!! Brilliant!

mm we bought the graco baby delight swing which came today!

Babylaughalot seems to really like it! It has 2 swing settings and number 2 is quite fast, it got us lots of smiles!

PetiteRaleuse Fri 11-Jan-13 20:33:23

Garden that sounds brilliant. Do enjoy your break smile

ChunkyTurkeywiththetrimmings Fri 11-Jan-13 20:37:05

evil your P needs to realise you/one is a parent from conception to the day you die, no "breaks". Its hard, tiring & difficult, particularly when you are ill, and you can get the occassional time away from the child(ren), BUT THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR WHAT HE SAID. Sorry if that's over-stepping but he was a complete c*$% to say that and needs to grow up & realise you never, ever, EVER, wish anyone dead, let alone someone you claim to love. Poor "baby" hmm Hope things work out well for you lovely.

PetiteRaleuse Fri 11-Jan-13 20:40:00

I hope evil is ok she hasn't posted since lunchtime.

BigPigLittlePig Fri 11-Jan-13 20:46:48

Have just had an ENORMOUS smile, not accompanied by trumps, burps or tummy gurgles. I cried for the 4th time today
All is forgiven!

ChunkyTurkeywiththetrimmings Fri 11-Jan-13 20:56:51

Still catching up...

blonder sucks that you've got to make that decision. I think I would find it v difficult to ignore their advice despite the knowledge I have about bm/supply etc etc. With DD, I felt they were somehow judging the quality of my milk & wanted a "quick fix" but that was a long way shy of your situation - they were being stupid bastards over cautious. You can always go back I'm sure, as I think hcp often say there's no way back because they don't know enough (& admittedly its a bit harder than not offering any f in the 1st place iyswim).

pikz don't envy your situation. Have always felt expressing is a bit "worst of both worlds" like VQ said. I would go to ff in your shoes.

VQ I haven't had a terrible time of bfing frankly, but even still, I feel like its much, much harder work this time around. However, today he has been going 3hrly & overnight it was back to a 3am ish feed (with the added excitement of vom issues) so it took longer, but at 2mths today, I finally feel like I'm getting to grips with it & can tell hunger from tiredness & don't have my boob out constantly. If ff one bottle or whatever helps, go for it.

ChunkyTurkeywiththetrimmings Fri 11-Jan-13 21:12:48

Have been feeding for an hr. He keeps coming off himself, then crying. Have tried both boobs, back & forth between them & dummy, which gets spat out. He goes back on, fusses about a bit, headbutts boob, cries. Wtf??!!!!

TheDetective Fri 11-Jan-13 21:17:20

MM I got the Bright Starts swinging chair, in the Asda baby event over the summer. The same one is in the event coming up, was £38. I looked for some time, and was going to get 2nd hand. All his other toy type things are 2nd hand, but I could not find anything I wanted.

Anyway, he did not like the swing at first, or rather it seemed he just wasn't arsed. Once he started getting pissed off at naps in the moses basket, we experimented again with the swinging chair. He now alternates where he naps, between the car seat, swinging chair and vibrating char and on me hmm.

This one might not last him when he is sitting, it is supposed to have 2 seat positions, but the one that is more upright does not fix for some stupid reason, so it is quite flat. Also the toy bar quite high so he can't reach. But for £38, if we get another 2nd hand one later down the line, I'm not bothered! It does the job now, he likes it, sleeps well in it, and stays in it now when awake, where as he did not at first.

It also has loads of speed settings. The main reason I picked it was because I wanted one that did not have a plastic back - to me, these seem so hard and uncomfy for a newborn. This one is just fabric they are hammocked in to.

Horses for courses, DS1 had a fisher price one that was a plastic chair with fabric covering. His kept him entertained for ages, and I kept it in my bedroom so he could swing while I got ready. It kept him happy for long enough that I showered, did hair and make up! I only got his when he was 4 months though! Wish I had got one much sooner!

I will probably get one like that for Oscar when he is a bit bigger, but will get one off eBay. In the meanwhile, this one is perfect for what I wanted.

This is it, it will be 38 in a few days.

Jesus, who would have thought you could write so much about bloody baby swings hmm shock.

BigPigLittlePig Fri 11-Jan-13 21:17:40

Chunky that happened to me yesterday so much for an early night
Caused me to have a mini meltdown and everything. You have my sympathies you poor thing! Blummin' babies eh???

TheDetective Fri 11-Jan-13 21:22:17

Chunky, sounds stupid, but try a nappy change? Sometimes Oscar is like this with feeding, and a nappy change sorts him out, even when its not been that long since changing! And we will ignore the time he was wet through to his clothes and I didn't realise and kept trying to get him to feed and wondered why he was fussing so much!!

Sometimes it is hard to know if to feed them, or if it it something else. It's always bloody trial and error around here!

TheDetective Fri 11-Jan-13 21:25:20


Just found these on eBay I love the polka dot one! I was tempted to bid, but if it is what you are after, I will refrain! If not, let me know and i'll go for them grin.

ChunkyTurkeywiththetrimmings Fri 11-Jan-13 21:26:32

He's sort of taken the dummy, seemed happier when I put him in his basket & his comforter (a velvety soft flannel) on next to his face. I'm not sure whether to be pleased he doesn't need/want to be fed to sleep or strangely redundant confused...

Now, if he would only take a bottle, I could go out on the piss alone and relax or just sleep!!

PetiteRaleuse Fri 11-Jan-13 21:29:03

Detective that doesn't sound stupid. If I don't change LO right before each feed, even if she has just been changed an hour or so before she just won't feed.

Anyone watching 16kids and counting? Inspiration to keep going or, in my case, a reminder to sort out DH's snip operation? grin

Have to admit though, they look happy and are coping incredibly well.

TheDetective Fri 11-Jan-13 21:29:21

Can you tell Oscar is sleeping, again?! WTF! I don't know what to do with myself! I should do some cleaning or something, but fuck it. I want to chill out and spend some time on the computer online shopping. grin

Am debating whether to wake him, and have a bath with him, then do the bedtime feed in our room. It's tricky. Maybe he is just tired today. Or growth spurting. Or has fucked up his body clock and his bed time is now 5.40pm grin.

BigPigLittlePig Fri 11-Jan-13 21:30:41

relax or just sleep!! I have forgotten what these things are sad

ChunkyTurkeywiththetrimmings Fri 11-Jan-13 21:30:41

Thanks for the suggestion detective he does get grumpy with a wet/dirty nappy. Think hope he's just over-tired and he'll sort himself out shortly.

I got cocky. That was the problem. Thought I had him sussed - he was on a 3hrly feed, wake, sleep cycle all by himself and I made the mistake of thinking "this is getting easier". Hah!!! Won't do that again...hmm

horseylady Fri 11-Jan-13 21:31:23

Well ds has not slept today. He has spent all day watching lights and kicking. He is still going strong. Laughing away, eating his fist, trying to grab his toes. This moment, right here is just brilliant. I want to box it up and show it you all because its just so cute!!

ChunkyTurkeywiththetrimmings Fri 11-Jan-13 21:33:53

BPLP sleep is for wimp and relaxing is over-rated wink

TheDetective Fri 11-Jan-13 21:34:20

ROFL Chunky grin. Be pleased. Very pleased!

My colleague from work was talking to me earlier. She breastfed for 6 weeks, then decided to mix feed. Baby would not take a bottle. She tried all the different brands, spent a fortune.

The baby did take a bottle after exahausting Avent/Tommee Tippee/Nuk/Mam etc.... It was £1.01 from Boots. Their cheapest crappiest bottle.

How I laughed! Fucking babies huh?!

TheDetective Fri 11-Jan-13 21:37:04

Film and pop on facebook Horsey! I put a clip of Oscar playing on earlier excuse my stupid voice, why do you always sound like a dick when recorded?!.

BigPigLittlePig Fri 11-Jan-13 21:40:14

pr have sky plussed 16 kids as am still catching up on christmas tv blush. Am intrigued how the heck you get anywhere, ever, on time with your hair washed & looking presentable with that many. Have been late for most things since little pig arrived...

Passmethecrisps Fri 11-Jan-13 21:48:19

I should have recorded what was happening 5 minutes ago. DH was down on the floor with his face right in P's face who is sleeping in the Moses basket. He then jumped up and put his face right in mine to demonstrate how she was breathing.

She was just breathing. He thought it was awesome

MissMummy1 Fri 11-Jan-13 21:50:21

16 kids and counting? <faints> 1 has totally taken over my life!

Anyone find they now have a very very busy diary since having a kid? My social life has never been so full, between baby clinics and playdates! DP's workmates were sniggering at us going to baby yoga. They think we're middle class because DP takes espresso to work hmm. Baby yoga tipped them over the edge!

Thanks all (esp detective ) for swing advice. I too like the look of the M&P starlight one. Bidding on a few on eBay but failing that will get the one from ASDAs in baby event. If it helps her sleep it will be worth every penny! I like the look of the M&P ones because you can plug an iPod into it for her to listen to. This sad very un-middleclass mummy wants to play her DD some Royal Orchestra classics blush

Haha I sound like a total snob. I'm just so amused by his workmates thinking we're posh!! Couldn't be further from the truth grin

Izzybuzzybuzzybees Fri 11-Jan-13 22:01:04

I've just caught up on the thread. It's taken me all blooming day!

pikz I am amazed you express all feeds, well done you, that is an achievement!

We are not sleeping through but usually a very sensible 5am feed. This follows what is normally a massive feed around 10.30 or 11. That is if he chooses to leave the breast at all from around 9pm! He is feeding just now and has been mostly since then.

I have a chunky monkey for a baby, he was born on 50th centile but had massive gains each week, 20oz at a time. No idea what he weighs just now as HV not coming til 21st but last time he was on 91st. He's only 10 weeks but in 3-6 month clothes now!

Feeding is much better for us. Can't remember who said they had blue nipples, I have this and it is raynauds of the nipple. As if mastitis and thrush weren't enough to get through!!

TheDetective Fri 11-Jan-13 22:02:31

MM I wanted that one initially, but when I saw it in the mamas and papas shop both me and dp thought it was quite hard and not comfy, certainly not at the RRP. 2nd hand price more acceptable!!

PetiteRaleuse Fri 11-Jan-13 22:03:55

My social diary has never been so empty other than Dr appointments this last few weeks. W don't have baby groups over he sad

Excitement will start as of Monday though. DD1 goes back to nursery in the mornings so at 12 every day I will leave the house to pick her up. Then I'll be back home after40 minutes. Life on the edge grin

Elizadoesdolittle Fri 11-Jan-13 22:24:53

blonder You are absolutley doing the right thing. Youve done brilliantly and will continue to be able to beastfeed as well as top up with formula. As you know we are having huge issues with poor weight gain too. At the start of it all I was very against topping up with formula. Now I would do anything to be able too. She refuses to take a bottle so I have to continue feeding and it's obviously not enough for her.

I've just bought a playtex bottle from amazon, she no longer takes the nuk. Lol at the poster who mentioned about their friends lo settling for the boots cheapy bottle. E will probably do that to me after I've exhausted every other bottle on the market!

glenda I have the M&P starbrite swing. E seems contented when in it and will nap quite happily there as well as watch the world go by till she gets bored. I paid at a nearly new sale and looks brand new. I like it but no way would I pay over £100 for it. If you can get it at a bargain price then go for it.

PetiteRaleuse Fri 11-Jan-13 22:29:56

Those of you who have trouble getting LOs to feed from a bottle I have read, while lurking on feeding threads, that feeding from a cup is possible from very early on. I have no experience of that but might be worth looking into.

PetiteRaleuse Fri 11-Jan-13 22:32:44

A quick google brought this up www.mother-2-mother.com/refusingbottle.htm

It would work for expressed milk too of course

ChunkyTurkeywiththetrimmings Fri 11-Jan-13 22:40:09

Someone on the bf FB support group I'm on said they had success with the Asda little angels cheap bottles. I will try ALL before trying to teach DH DS how to cup feed but its an option.... I will try expressing & different bottles again nxt wk now I'm off the antibiotics etc.

PetiteRaleuse Fri 11-Jan-13 22:43:36

grin at DH DS

Evilwater Fri 11-Jan-13 22:48:11

Thanks for all your messages of support. I'm saddened that other ladies here are dealing with P that are difficult.

I'm still at my mums, got some stuff for me and N. P didn't talk to me or N. lots of texts during the day, and we are at stalemate.

Needing sleep

PetiteRaleuse Fri 11-Jan-13 22:50:10

Glad you're OK Evil

Sleep well smile

Lane81 Fri 11-Jan-13 22:58:43

VQ and Blonder, mixed feeding hasn't affected my supply, I think because I'm still doing all the night feeds.

Hope things start to look up for you blonder soon!

blonderthanred Fri 11-Jan-13 23:20:54

Thank you Eliza, I am sorry the bottles are proving such a challenge for you. We use TT CTN because we got them free at the Baby Show. I really hope your LO starts to pile on the weight as well.

Lane that is really good to know. I am definitely going to keep the middle-of-the-night feed as breast only.

Evil I am sorry things have not been resolved. Your DH really needs a wake up call. Hope you are ok and able to focus on N.

Hope everyone gets a good night with sleepy babies. Feels like it's been quite a day for a lot of us.

Elizadoesdolittle Fri 11-Jan-13 23:20:59

pr thanks for that link. Ive skim read it. Am off to bed now but have added it to my favourites to read through properly later.

Night all, wishing you all lots of sleep!

kirrinIsland Fri 11-Jan-13 23:32:02

Blimey - this thread is moving fast.

Glad you are ok evil - hope you get a good sleep.

Hope things are better with your DP too rowing

chunky N does that too. I've not really worked what it's about - wind maybe? She seems really agitated but will eventually calm down a bit and latch on.

Wishing you all a good night and hopefully I won't see you all on here at 4am - and I mean that in the nicest possible way!

Thechick Sat 12-Jan-13 00:44:41

Blonder I've been skim reading. Not sure if you've come to a decision about the feeding. Have you spoken to the LLL, they have been really helpful in the past or fenugreek. It's really helped my supply, but recently has stopped working so well, but did give me a boost in the early weeks. You can get it from holland and Barrett and starts working in about 36 hrs. Or can your dr prescribe domperidome?

GTbaby Sat 12-Jan-13 01:07:13

Imagin my panic when Ewan's battery died! Lol. LO managed to settle himself with a dummy tho. He is getting better at falling asleep unaided at bed time. No more rocking or shushing I hope. This also means that u can't fail transfer by accidentally hitting side of the cot.

So going to start to decorate LO room nxt week. Think I'm going with a space theme. So if anyone has any ideas that would be lovely.
Not done it so far as mil was meant to empty out cupboard for us to use for LO. But STILL waiting. So decided we will just buy a chest of draws to put his stuff in. Decorate and move him in there. Otherwise we will b waiting forever.

Also I want my cupboard space back. Now I have lost the bump more of my clothes will fit. Prob is that I dont have cupboard space so everything is stored in the bed compartment which I need DH to open every time. hmm

DH is snoring so loud hmm. I can't sleep. Hence the slightly random post.

Oh yeah. Anyone thought about weaning? Maybe it's on my mind as H is a bit of a chunky monkey. Lol n I think he might want to eat earlier. Might do the NCT course. As its an expensive excuse to get out of the house.

Right I'm off to read the active thread. Which I could sleep hmm
Will bbl to maybe write random chat n keep u all amused with my middle of the night nonsense.

I remember when doing my teaching course we had a social thread. N I used to write such nonsense about my teaching n general school life observations. Noone ever replied. So one day I thought I ain't writing anymore noone reads it anyway. A week later I saw my classmates. N ALL of them commented on my lack of posts, how it cheered them up n made them laugh. Y has I stopped. Totally random story... More to come. I'm in a random mood.

TheDetective Sat 12-Jan-13 01:12:39

GT you can do a weaning course through the children's centre for free!

And your posts make me giggle! Think we suffer the same stupid sleep pattern problems! Am hoping I can sleep now... Off to try it!

GTbaby Sat 12-Jan-13 01:34:10

I've not seen any free courses. But will ask the sure start when I go for baby massage on wed.

So on to my weekend plans. I know ur all Keen to hear!

So this weekend brings the punjabi festival of Lori. It's a festival that celebrates the end of winter ( even tho it's set to snow nxt week) n also fertility. So newly married couples n those who have recently had children! US! Celebrate more so.
Now here's the catch. Only the birth of a boy is celebrated. Im sure I mentioned many many many threads ago the whole cultural pressure of a first born boy.
So based on this sexist attitude ive always said I did not want to celebrate Lori. That I would rather have a party for 1st bday. But no DH has a strop. So tomorrow we have our siblings n parents all joining us for the ritual fire. U throw stuff in fire n chant some sentence that I'm yet learn. All very witch crafty lol. Then on Sunday we have a party. What started as 90 ppl has turn to 160!
Hence eye brow threading and pedicure today. ( also the realisation I haven't shaved my legs in 3 months , not great when u have ur legs out on full view). Will b great having all these ppl there celebrating the birth of our child ignoring the sexist element n have a good dance Bollywood style grin

6 mile walk earlier? Yeah paying for it now, my hips/pelvis is in flipping agony!!!! J is just waking for his '11' o clock feed! grin

Catbag Sat 12-Jan-13 02:01:50

Aw, GT, I love your random posts smile

rowingdowntheriver Sat 12-Jan-13 02:23:27

A party for 160 people gt?! That is huge but, ignoring the sexist element, sounds like great fun.

As for weaning courses, I went on a 2 hour one run by our health visitors for DS1 and found it really useful. They told me some things that I doubt I would ever have known otherwise, such as not to give honey to a child under one as it could be deadly! It might be worth asking your health visitor next time you see them to see if they run them near you.

I'm awake at this hour but only because of the dratted DS1 who has taken to crying for cuddles through the night. No idea why as he has slept through problem free since 6 months. Guess it may be something to do with the arrival of DS2? DS2, on the other hand, is sleeping soundly in his mosesbasket for now

rowingdowntheriver Sat 12-Jan-13 02:38:49

evil, sorry to hear you DP is still being twatty. Afraid mine is too unfortunately but won't bore you all with the details for now.

Had a blinder of a day today (not) as car broke down and it took all day and a load of cash to sort it. Hopefully tomorrow will be better.

For those of you, like me, with crying night time babies, this may make you laugh. It certainly did for me. Lullaby

Thechick Sat 12-Jan-13 02:58:06

gt I'm curious to what a course will say. I thought we gave baby rice to start with, then root vegs mashed and mash less as he starts getting used to it. Then, as they get older, small portions of what's on your plate. I found that ice cube trays were good for freezing a batch of food. I'm not sure if I'm supposed to start weaning later as LO was early.

CandyPop Sat 12-Jan-13 03:39:23

detective that was an epic post! Thanks for sharing . Spoke to a friend and she was very supportive. I told her about my guilt and how I didn't give birth. She reminded me that I did give birth that's why we have a beautiful bubba. She banned me from saying I didn't give birth blush .

evil <hugs> you have the support of your family. Your oh needs to grow up and maybe a little time apart will give him time to reflect . Hope he 'wakes' up to reality soon . Don't have to say as its personal - but is he quite young? He sounds a little immature

I feel a lot better now. Doc has given me a different antibiotics. As u know I was ready to pack in breastfeeding and fed her 2 bottles of formula during the day. However after being to the docs and having a rest from feeding I'm perseverinrg and she's back on the boob!

Anyways dh is telling me off for not resting now . Hope all is ok x

MissMummy1 Sat 12-Jan-13 03:44:16

Bar a 10min power nap on me, Matilda has been awake since 11pm. DH gets home at 7am. I need sleep now!envy

Glad things are looking more positive candy x

nillynoon Sat 12-Jan-13 04:47:20

Chunky, Toby does the same - a bum change usually helps!

Just feeding after a 5 hour stretch, my boobs are getting more used to the longer stretches and I don't need to express them in to the bath for fear of blowing wee man's head off with the let down!

My nipple thrush is improving, but his latch is rubbish on that side which doesn't help!

Party for 160? I feel faint at the thought!

nillynoon Sat 12-Jan-13 04:49:03

MissMummy - that sounds awful, whats worst with her?

TheDetective Sat 12-Jan-13 05:26:34

Your friend is right Candy! Wise words!

Farking he'll GT! That sounds like hard work! 160?! I don't think I know 160 people! Well, ignoring the stupid sexist bits, it's lovely to celebrate the birth of your baby! I always feel like I am missing out. We do not have any celebrations, as we are not religious. So no christening/baptism for us. So we have never had any kind of party to celebrate him!

Chick I am hoping to try baby led weaning, instead of purées. If he will try it. I don't think there is a correct way to do it as such. I think with DS I started with purée veg. I think the courses will teach you which foods are okay, which to avoid, and some simple recipes.

TheDetective Sat 12-Jan-13 05:31:07

Well considering the epic evening sleep, he fed just after 11 and slept til 5. Just hope he sleeps til 9 after this!! grin

Just looking at him now. Oh how I love the little sleep stealer. Stupid hormones!

Right. Let's get this feed finished, and back to bloody sleep! Yay for it being Saturday!

KissysUnderTheMisteltoe Sat 12-Jan-13 05:52:47

Argh! Still got the blocked duct in my boob. It just won't shift confused any tips on getting it out!? Set my alarm to wake me up at 3am to feed LO so I didn't get too full up and completely slept thru it. It's great that she's sleeping for longer but it's not helping me with the blockage, I'm going to get mastitis if I don't clear it soon aren't I?!

katkit1 Sat 12-Jan-13 05:57:50

Gt - Party for 160 sounds fun how nice for your baby boy that he already has 160 people in his life - I think that's pretty awesome.

katkit1 Sat 12-Jan-13 06:03:47

Fed every 2 hrs as per normal but feel more tired today for some reason, typing with one finger and half an eye open - changed nappy and now feeding again with half an eye open - really hoping Alex goes back to sleep for a bit sometimes he likes to start his morning. Lights off and I haven't spoken so fingers crossed.

katkit1 Sat 12-Jan-13 06:07:55

Ouch kissy - what does it feel like? hope it clears soon.

katkit1 Sat 12-Jan-13 06:12:03

I've never had a blocked duct but wonder what the feeling is like just in case it happens - would want to nip it in the bud

KissysUnderTheMisteltoe Sat 12-Jan-13 06:14:42

Hey katkit, It's not too sore yet, just lumpy hmm blummin annoying, have tried everything to get it out but nothing's working

KissysUnderTheMisteltoe Sat 12-Jan-13 06:17:00

It's a hard area in the boob, think u got it from carrying LO round a shop and squashing my boob for too long hmm

KissysUnderTheMisteltoe Sat 12-Jan-13 06:17:41

I got it! Not u obv wink

Sophiathesnowfairy Sat 12-Jan-13 07:22:24

detective love your epic post. More please. You have got me thinking about getting a swing now, but not sure if we have anyspace for it I was actually wondering when to get the DH booth back out, DS1 loved it and O loves to be up looking around.

I don't think I know 160 people gt hope you have lots of fun.

Hope you are ok * evil* I think we are all thinking about you.

Just gone down to the kitchen and DH has opened the slider food cupboard and loads of tins have fallen off the back shelf (the knobbers who fitted the kitchen/landlords have put the racks in back to front so there is no backs on them and if you open too quick stuff falls off back, like I have time to take all the food out of two ceiling to floor cupboards and turn them all round. Hollow laugh) and he hasn't picked them up. Grr. He has taken my delicious shake mixer to Costa with him, presumably to put DS1s smoothie in. So I can't have my breakfast. Ad there is a big fuck off foot print on the hall tiles.

I felt cross and then remembered I have been asleep since before 9 pm last night he did do the 10:30 feed, and get up with O at 06:00, fed him, sorted out the poo, got DS1 up, sorted out a poo, gave him cereal and took them out to Costa. So I am lucky right? He is a good boy really.

Except for the tins. And the beaker. And the footprint.

Sophiathesnowfairy Sat 12-Jan-13 07:22:52

Not the DH booth the DJ booth.

Sophiathesnowfairy Sat 12-Jan-13 07:27:11
Sophiathesnowfairy Sat 12-Jan-13 07:36:19

My other Saturday morning whingy is the TMI one.

After bleeding since Christmas on Femodene I gave it up in the week after being persuaded about the mirena coil, some of you have said it is ok so I am going to give it a go. So now I have my period because I stopped the pill.

Is like a massacre.

I think this is why I have been so tired in the last 24 hours. Is like the tiredness that you get when you are first pregnant not the never sleep tiredness you get with a new baby grin

I have really really really had enough with bleeding and if I bleed with the coil I will just have a strop and get them to take it out.

Sophiathesnowfairy Sat 12-Jan-13 07:44:59

Sorry to be a thread hog!

Some of you were chatting about weaning.i would be interested in hearing what you think. I have been invited to a talk at the Children's Centre. Not sure whether to go or not.

I know that they will push baby lead weaning as it is the current fashion. But I have a loyalty to the old fashioned start a bit earlier and take it slower. Start with baby rice add in pear, root veg and so on an then as someone said start giving them the same sort of stuff you have minus salt. I have done three like this and it worked well.

My problem with baby led weaning is are you setting a precedent that they can have whatever they fancy? They don't know what they need and that is our job as parents sure.y to bring them up and guide them. They could end up having a really limited diet if they are allowed to have what they like.

I also found using standard weaning and some relevant baby toddler cook books, they enjoyed stuff I would never have thought of or had myself.

If I go to the talk I may end up getting in a row.

What do the rest of you think?

GTbaby Sat 12-Jan-13 08:08:44

Soph I think I prefer what seems to be the old fashioned way of doing it.
DH is a very fussy eater. So really want to mk sure LO doesn't pick this up.
I just want to know when to start. What to start with. N when to introduce new foods. May buy a recipe book?

Shall we do the guess how many ppl at my wedding game? shock
Keep in mind 160. Are close family n pil close friends. Also what I consider to be close family u may not lol. Ie dads cousins. Hehe.

Thechick Sat 12-Jan-13 08:13:00

Sophia I thought baby led weaning was more to do with the pace of when you give food, looking out for signs they are ready rather than them liking or not liking food. I could be completely wrong though. I think when they are 6 months they would eat anything. It's when they get older the trouble starts. My LO is only 14 weeks so I have a bit of time.

Thechick Sat 12-Jan-13 08:17:13

I am excited for the weaning to start but it also means that he's half a year old and that its the start of a new chapter and its all happening too fast already. That I'm not excited about.

PetiteRaleuse Sat 12-Jan-13 08:23:50

Over here we follow different rules and guidelines about weaning.from about five months we start giving very basic purees. With DD1 I did carrot, courgette, pear and apple. After a month so at 6 months we started adding stuff. We didn't follow BLW (don't get me started on that). I basically pureed what we were having, but keeping her vegetarian for a couple of weeks, then introducing ham, chicken, salmon and beef. Pork came last. By 8 months she was eating lumps of soft stuff like bananas and omelette and sliced ham. By a year she was eating everything except of course for choking hazards. I never used baby rice or anything like that. Found it much easier to batch prepare and freeze portions for her. She has never touched ready made baby food, even though I have offered it on occasion.

I used an older version of this book for ideas www.amazon.co.uk/Annabel-Karmels-Complete-Toddler-Planner/dp/0091924855/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1357978863&sr=1-1

I know Annabel is considered the devil on here but I liked her.

I have nothing against some of the ideas behind BLW but can write an essay on my full opinions on it.

CandyPop Sat 12-Jan-13 08:29:55

Hehe gt I've been to a couple of Asian weddings so I'm guessing if you are having 160 at baby event ur wedding would have been 500?! 250 each side grin ... That's not considered that large either ? now r you the type to have a 'large' wedding... Ok in revising my guess to 650!!!
Oh also gt do you have a local sure start centre? The one in my area has a free weaning session .

In regards to weaning, I was told by nct ppl to only start at 6 months ?! But a friend made a good point, she started weaning at 4 months when her little one showed interest in her food. Sounds quite sensible right? I mean every baby is different and develop at different rates so who the baby does not need food until 6 months?! Ok so it's not essential but if thee can and start to show interest then why not?

kissy must try unblock ASAP as mastitis is not great. As u may have seen from my yesterday post I had a complete meltdown from it.
Try putting a hot compress (warm water flannel or hot water bottle) in the area before feeding . Then massage it. then whilst feeding massage it pushing it towards to nipple. Also maybe changing latch position of baby may help. If it starts getting tender and you get a temperature the. Go to the docs immediately as it will be mastitis and you may need antibiotics to clear it.

The new antibiotics makes me feel sick. Doctor warned me about it. U was actually sick 3am in the morning .... Ah the memories of morning sickness!!

GTbaby Sat 12-Jan-13 08:44:53

PR thanks for book suggestion. Was just about to ask if anyone had used any books!

That game didn't last long Candy ur a mind reader. Spot on 650 ppl. DH has a big family. So 250 from my side n rest was his family.

Im being very naughty DH is at work n I LO in bed shock. DH is very against this. At first it was a safety issue as he is a VERY deep sleeper (think pushing shoving slapping NOT waking him) n then a few of his friends were very envious of our crib sleeper as their LO won't leave the bed. So now he is paranoid LO will get into a habit if even put in our bed once. But shush. In enjoying watching him sleep. smile

CandyPop Sat 12-Jan-13 08:55:34

Although i live in Essex I grew up in greenford! My parents still live there wink

CandyPop Sat 12-Jan-13 08:56:53

Oh damn it- should betted money !!!

CandyPop Sat 12-Jan-13 08:57:23

Or few packets of baby wipes :D

PetiteRaleuse Sat 12-Jan-13 09:10:41

The book was good for ideas for us too actually. I don't know what the new version is like though.

Going to cinema and lunch with a good friend today. Grandparents on double duty. Really looking forward to my day out, going to see Les Miserables. Looking forward to it. Don't want parents to go back to Greece, wish they lived nearby.

Sophiathesnowfairy Sat 12-Jan-13 09:15:35

I didn't know Anabel Karmel was the devil, I used GF ( also a friend of Satan) and Anabel Karmel mixed together and went really slowly from about 16 -20 weeks.

Sophiathesnowfairy Sat 12-Jan-13 09:16:52

gt I would second that book suggestion mine is well thumbed. Her pasta book is very good as you move on as well.

horseylady Sat 12-Jan-13 09:19:16

I was going to use annabel Carmel book.

I understand the principles of blw but I don't understand when they start using cutlery. I also understand the idea that up to a year old they should be playing and discovering food then at 1 magically start eat three meals a day. I know it's all a gradual process but I think that while playing and discovering foods is all well and good, learning table manners etc. Is also needed.

I need to look more into it

Gill Rapley has good books on BLW. Haven't fully caught up with the thread so apologies if this is not what you are talking about.

Sophiathesnowfairy Sat 12-Jan-13 09:29:50

One slidey cupboard sorted. brew

StuntNun Sat 12-Jan-13 09:33:56

Periods suck. Can I get pregnant again just to stop the periods? wink

A bit of comfort for those that aren't breastfeeding... Remember when my boobs didn't reach my waist? Nope, me neither. hmm I'm sure they were pert ten years ago.

So another baby and then a boob job for me then.

PetiteRaleuse Sat 12-Jan-13 09:48:26

There's plenty of scope for playing with food and exploring without following the BLW guides. BLW is a name given to what is largely common sense (re the food) mixed with some vague pseudo pop psychology which basically puts the 'power' into baby's hands. With clever marketing it has been built up into a fashionable but ironically closed minded parenting method. Some, but of course not all, BLWers go all evangelical about it and refer to puree as mush, with a disgusted expression, conveniently forgetting that many animals chew their food for their young and that puree is really just an artificial way of doing that.

I'm going to stop now before I offend anyone. But a combination of solids and exploring and puree is how babies have been weaned for generations. And the gag reflex theory is all well and good, but the way it is reinterpreted and repeated by so many people on here is actually quite scary.

I really will stop here. It works for some people and that's great and has encouraged some mums to be brave. But rather than glorifying it with a great name it's as well to think of it as introducing bigger bits of food.

And breathe.

ChunkyChicken Sat 12-Jan-13 09:50:12

kissy I 2nd what Candy says. I wrote loads on how to clear one on a previous thread, but I'm on my phone and CBA to find it. Basically, feed that boob only & pump other, plus use a wide tooth comb to massage/clear. Try ibuprofen if it gets sore, but go to GP if you feel flu-like as candy said. Have a look on Kellymom too.

I did BLW with DD. Brilliant. It was so easy compared to purees. She just had everything we had, but with less salt. I think there's a list of the 'avoid' foods on the NHS website. I didn't do a course - just got a leaflet from the sure start centre & read about BLW on the website.


Ah well search baby language on YouTube smile

ChunkyChicken Sat 12-Jan-13 10:08:20

Sorry if I'm offending anyone but I really really don't get the anti-BLW thing. My nephew was weaned traditionally, eats bugger all. My DD eats everything. You give them a plate of healthy food & they choose how & what to eat. It probably does, in theory, work best with bfing because you continue to bf on demand & provide their main nutrition that way as they develop their food intake, as "food is fun until one". But DD only had 3-4 max bf a day at 9mths & 3 bottles a day at 1yr as she ate so much food.

She started taking a loaded spoon from my hand at 6.5mths & used a spoon independently from maybe a yr old. Not sure all traditionally weaned babies would be able to do this because they have only ever been fed. DD now uses a fork & spoon confidently & is starting to use a knife at 2.8yo. The anti-BLW argument re cutlery and table manners is rubbish; no baby has table manners. You teach them.

Frankly anyone that gets evangelical about anything is a twat. I don't think there are any rules or weaning police to tell you're doing it wrong. Do what's workable for you!!!

Re 6mths. It's a gluten thing. You can wean at any time you like, except there are guidelines about what foods to avoid before 6mths. The guidelines are based around food allergies/tolerances & as I understand it, weaning before 6mths is linked to an increase in these.

Passmethecrisps Sat 12-Jan-13 10:17:34

Isn't it amazing that the chat is already abou weaning? How time flies!

I know nothing about either method and as with everything thus far I will be a firm fence-sitter.

Wee P got her injections on Tuesday. She seemed absolutely fine Tuesday night but pretty out of sorts on Wednesday and horrendous on Thursday. Poor baby cried an awful shrieky scream cry as long as she was awake. Thankfully Friday was better. I have no idea if it was coincidence but she also had awful rabbit pellet poo on those days as well. I suspect she has a sensitive wee system and anything different or upsetting will impact on her bowels. I am sure the HV/GP think we are poo obsessed.

I ended up giving her dilute prune juice and . . . Sticking a vaselined finger up her bottom. Strangely, this was the more relaxed she was the whole day on Wednesday. She stared at the telly with her hands clasped on her chest while I grease up her bum!

If my past self could see me now!

MissMummy1 Sat 12-Jan-13 10:24:40

I like the idea of BLW but dont know enough about it. M is only 6 weeks though so plenty of time to read up on it. Interesting reading all of your different viewpoints.

We survived our first night on our own!! grin One 4 hour sleep until 3.30am smile ... and then she was wide awake until dp came and took over just after 7amconfused .

I've just won a m&p made with love dream swing on ebay for £16 - happy days!!! grin

PetiteRaleuse Sat 12-Jan-13 10:25:47

Not offending anyone smile I weaned DD1 as I described and it worked for me, mixing puree and chunkier stuff. It's the evangelism and marketing hype round it which gets me.

Table manners and cutlery I agree are down to parents educating the baby. Weaning is easier I think if approached without putting pressure on either mum or baby, so that mealtimes don't become a chore or battle. And a lot of pbs with children not using cutlery are due to a reluctance to let them try. My mum admits we were all late because she spoon fed us for ages as she didn't want to have to clean up. But kids can learn cutlery with mush and chunks. I'm not sure there is a huge difference.

PetiteRaleuse Sat 12-Jan-13 10:27:33

pass glycerine suppositories are safe and effective for constipation, but you'd need to check weight and age restrictions of course.

Passmethecrisps Sat 12-Jan-13 10:36:32

Thanks petite. I will speak to my GP about it next time I see him

blonderthanred Sat 12-Jan-13 10:48:56

Glenda and chick I have started taking fenugreek. No noticeable difference on 2x3 caps per day so might up it to 3x3, Kellymom seems to think that amount works for many. Apparently if your sweat smells like maple syrup or curry then it's having an effect so I've told DH to tell me if he notices anything!

VQ sleep here followed usual pattern despite formula. Which pleased me but might not please anyone wanting more sleep! But every baby will respond differently I expect.

GT I like your posts too. I love it when people have a distinctive posting style. Enjoy the party ignoring sexist element.

Det I also have the Asda event Bright Starts vibrating chair and playmat (not the swing). We must have the same taste. And crap dads, mine hasn't been in touch even though I know my mum told him about the baby. We don't speak much but a card would have been nice.

I was wondering about BLW. My mum will be doing our childcare so she would need to be on board but she is already talking about purées etc. I will read up a bit more but also don't want time to move too fast.

PetiteRaleuse Sat 12-Jan-13 10:51:38

Constipation was a major problem for DD1 from about three months until 18 months. It's hard to find a solution sometimes, we ended up on medication daily from 12 months then every couple of days til a couple of months ago. It's really distressing when it gets bad, and DD1 got to the point where she was scared of pooing, which of course made it work.

I completely sympathise with the greasing the bum moment. I had flashes of this is not how I envisaged motherhood grin

PetiteRaleuse Sat 12-Jan-13 10:54:18

Plenty of time to decide on weaning, and if you remain flexible when it happens you'll find a way to work for you blonder

Gt as someone upthread said, it's lovely that your LO already has so many people in his life. Enjoy the party

PetiteRaleuse Sat 12-Jan-13 10:56:29

Meant to say, then I'll shut up, glycerine was effective in short term but couldn't use it long term as they kind of get dependent on it and gives them lazy bowels.

horseylady Sat 12-Jan-13 11:01:12

Pr/chunky - I agree with both of you. I think I've seen an extremist of blw though smile

Food should always be fun!! That's why I get so much pleasure from cooking!!

blonderthanred Sat 12-Jan-13 11:06:57

Pass I also found myself putting a vaselined fingertip up L's bum when he hadn't been for 5 days. He was also strangely calm. I think I won't be sharing this when he is older.

Sophiathesnowfairy Sat 12-Jan-13 11:12:20

I think like chunky says you do what suits you best. All my three were traditionally weaned and could use their spoons by the time they were one, DS is 2.5 and has been using a knife for a couple of months now. As someone else said it is how you teach them.

My humph is mainly about HVs trying to ram the latest idea down our throats instead of treating us like intellegent women with our own minds. Whatever that may be.

Sophiathesnowfairy Sat 12-Jan-13 11:13:53

In your team horsey food should be fun.

TooManyDicksOnTheDancefloor Sat 12-Jan-13 11:17:01

sophia- we had the dj booth for dd1. She loved it, we called it the 'sing it baby'.

We weaned using purées, started at 6 months and had her on three meals a day by 6 1/2 months. Had to do it quickly as I had to go back to work and was still breastfeeding. She dropped to three milk feeds a day and was sleeping 7-7 by then so I could feed around my work hours. Used guns ford and Annabel karmel.

I'm going to do the same again as it worked well for us. Don't think either method makes good/poor eaters. The child will be one or the other regardless of the weaning method. I have a good eater, but me and DH are good eaters, too good!

TooManyDicksOnTheDancefloor Sat 12-Jan-13 11:17:46

Guns? - Gina!

Sophiathesnowfairy Sat 12-Jan-13 11:18:56

dicks you a brought it all flooding back. I used to go round going "sing it baby" grin

Oh I so hope it still works after being in the garage.

Sophiathesnowfairy Sat 12-Jan-13 11:20:49

grin how appropriate. I did the same as you and agree people are what they are.

Also I think kids go through good and fussy stages a part of growing up.

TooManyDicksOnTheDancefloor Sat 12-Jan-13 11:21:00

Bap-a-doo-wop! Yep, constantly sang it too sophia

TooManyDicksOnTheDancefloor Sat 12-Jan-13 11:22:45

Totally agree Sophia grin

PetiteRaleuse Sat 12-Jan-13 11:27:52

I love cooking too horsey. It's a particular pleasure cooking for DD1 as she is so appreciative. I was fussy as a child but she loves everything. I can't wait to start cooking with her (though she comes and watches me cook now and I have to keep lufting her up so she can see what's going on in the pans).

When weaning time comes we'll be able to share recipes.

Elizadoesdolittle Sat 12-Jan-13 11:28:37

I did BLW mainly as I couldn't be arsed to do puréed. It worked really well for us but i can see why it wouldn't work for everyone. At the start its very messy and can sometimes look like they aren't eating anything, although the nappies will prove otherwise. DD1 who is 3 on Tuesday is a fabulous eater and eats most foods and has a hearty appetite. But she also could have been that way if I'd gone down the purée route. I think it's different horses for different courses. It will work for some babies and parents but not others. I'd like to think I could wean DD2 the same way but if it doesn't work for her i will do purées. These no reason why you can't do a mixture of both although I know that goes against the BLW ethos. I was never that strict about it.

ChunkyChicken Sat 12-Jan-13 11:28:43

I think my aversion to "mush" weaning is when people seem to use it to almost force feed a really young baby. They just seem to shovel the food into the mouth of a reclined baby. I think BLW is encouraged more as a means to persuade people to wait until 6mths, as baby has to sit up.

FWIW I used Annabel Karmel recipes for stock & the like, before I found baby stock cubes, to use in our cooking so we had as little salt as possible. Now I use normal stock occassionally, or reduced salt oxo, in cooking & DD eats exactly what we have.

Agree toomany. My Dsis & I weaned pretty much the same (me early as I didn't sleep, it didn't work...) but she's dead fussy, & I love food. She once ate weetabix for breakfast, lunch & dinner for a week as a child, as she refused to eat anything else!!

ChunkyChicken Sat 12-Jan-13 11:33:54

Same here Eliza.

I used to look at babies eating purees & feel a bit sad and think they were missing out on the fun stuff. Now however, when I feel myself hoicking up my judgey pants, I think about my friend who's tried BLW with her DD2 but as she's had all sorts of issues since stopping bfing, and her DD now failing to thrive, she had to try purees to just get some calories into her whilst giving prescription formula.

One size doesn't fit all and sn

ChunkyChicken Sat 12-Jan-13 11:34:23


And sometimes things aren't the way they seem.

PetiteRaleuse Sat 12-Jan-13 11:41:28

I agree chunky forcing food down a baby won't help anyone. I didn't know people did that! I would imagine though that would be encouraged by using ready made puree as I would guess parents would assume the baby has to finish it as being a 'correct' amount. Which is wrong. Like with milk I think a baby just knows when they have had enough. I used to think of DD as being like a baby bird. If she was opening her mouth and loiking expectant she wanted more. If not we stopped. At the beginning they don't need more than a couple of mouthfuls as they still have milk.

I'm hoping DD2 will be equally unfussy and will love food too. But judging how her milk has to be served at such a precise temperature I'm not sure...

KissysUnderTheMisteltoe Sat 12-Jan-13 12:01:58

Thanks candy and chunky, I've tried everything, hot compress, massage, wide tooth comb, pumping, feeding dangling over the baby so her tongue is over where the lump is (not my best look!) nothing is working. I had them before with DD1 but managed to clear them within 24 hours. This one is firmly stuck! Off to holland and Barrett for some lectithin and selenium now as I read that can help

Regarding weaning I did puréed food from 6 months. Was way too scared of baby choking to do BLW

GTbaby Sat 12-Jan-13 12:04:33

Wow didn't know starting the weaning conv would bring on so many views. I have no idea what blw involves. Or what trad involves. Will research today. But now I have to sort out party favours!

KissysUnderTheMisteltoe Sat 12-Jan-13 12:13:12

Oh and I used that annabel karmel book too, didn't realise she was disliked on here!? I wonder why?

BigPigLittlePig Sat 12-Jan-13 12:20:40

Morning all.
It's taken me ages to catch up with only 12 hours of posts, pages and pages!
All this talk of weaning is a little bit scary - does anyone know whether you're supposed to start weaning them later if LO was prem? I get so confused trying to work out what needs correcting for age and what doesn't confused

Candy - you sound like me 2 days ago, my poor boob took a right hammering in my attempts to clear a blocked duct. Didn't work so am now on antibiotics. At least they've fixed little pigs constipation every cloud eh

Am feeling quite proud as LO managed 3 hours IN HER OWN BED last night. I realise for some this is nothing, but that's the first time she's slept anywhere other than our bed for weeks grin

Hope you're all having lovely weekends so far even if it's pissing down like here

BigPigLittlePig Sat 12-Jan-13 12:21:26

Oops I meant kissy not candy re boobies! Too many posts have addled my tiny brain

MadamGazelleIsMyMum Sat 12-Jan-13 12:33:29

bigPig I would love it if DD (nearly 2) would go in her own bed. Not for months here, and no end in sight. She sleeps with DH in the spare room, and I have DS in with me.

Is it odd to have different parenting styles for each child? When DD was a baby of DS's age, I was a massive fan of SWMNBN and it was all routine, structure, I made her wait for feeds until the alloted time (happily mind, I didnt refuse to feed her if she was really hungry) own room by 5 weeks, etc. Now with DS, he sleeps with me, and there's no attempt at a routine just yet, its totally different. However, it isnt a philosophy change, am lazy and slack now. DD also still has a dummy pretty much all day and I refuse to get worked up. Am enjoying DS being a baby so much. Makes me sad I didnt chill out when DD was tiny.

Weaning was fun with DD. We did a combination of purees and finger foods. DD happily took food in whatever form it came in. I loved making fruit puree, smelt delicious!

PetiteRaleuse Sat 12-Jan-13 12:34:23

kissy I'm not sure why Annabel Karmel is so disliked on here. If I was feeling brave I'd start an aibu to like Annabel Karmel but I'd get flamed and called a troll. I've rarely seen her mentioned in a positive light but have never been interested enough to really read what is so bad about her. I think her setting up a ready meal line of business went down badly, and the fact she isn't a qualified nutritionist but tbh I can't really remember. I know that she is divisive re food like Gina Ford is divisive re sleep.

PetiteRaleuse Sat 12-Jan-13 12:52:12

I just did a quick search and apparently some of her advice is outdated and contrary to official guidelines. I didn't read the advice parts of the book so can't comment. The recipes were good though. Interesting ideas as I said even for our main meals.

GTbaby Sat 12-Jan-13 12:54:48

We talk to much and i cant keep up. I know last night i posted alot and added to the reading work load.
Do u think we should ration ourselves to two posts a day to slow the thread down? We can then sell each other our rations. Or exchange them for baby related goods. wink

LO has just woken up from his nap. And he is still tiered so im waiting for him to settle back to sleep himself hmm he can do it but only if there is no distraction. He has that half eye smiley dopy look about him. Luckily I'm home alone , am waiting to switch tv on. Come on baby, fall asleep already I wana watch tv n eat my breakfast smile

MissMummy1 Sat 12-Jan-13 13:04:13

So cute: my dog's trying to get Tilly to play with his tennis ball with him!

katkit1 Sat 12-Jan-13 13:06:09

Kissy - Thanks for the description, I'll watch out dot it, Alex is a starfish and spends most of the day on me. Either in sling or huge, I get very hot and squashed.

katkit1 Sat 12-Jan-13 13:06:31

For not dot

katkit1 Sat 12-Jan-13 13:07:22

Hugs not huge always typing badly with one finger

Sophiathesnowfairy Sat 12-Jan-13 13:14:34

No gt. Please NO!!!grin sometimes you guys are the only adults I speak to all day!! That is v sad I know, but true.

Well, I like AK and GF, I just like recipe books it's gives me new ideas so I try different stuff all the time. I was quite Samuel with the DDs but for DS I would rarely do a batch of stuff twice unless he super loved it, like AKs courgette and tomato pasta sauce, helped by the fact that I was growing toms and courgettes at the time and we were over run with them! grin

Very happy weekend here. A small amount of snow is falling!

katkit1 Sat 12-Jan-13 13:15:25

I was able to feed Alex in bed this morning in the lying down position without altering my boob or baby - droopy boobs situ only been at this for 8 weeks oh well.

ChunkyChicken Sat 12-Jan-13 13:23:54

LOL GT Like the bartering for posts idea. I'm way over my allocation today.

Kissy I don't think DD ever got close to choking. She gagged a few times maybe, but I was always there next to her, so if she looked at all uncomfortable, I was ready with back-slapping & dragging from seat on to my lap if nec. They noisily gag, but if they go silent, then they're choking...

Madam I think its only natural that you do it differently 2nd time - you have 2 to care about. I'm still baby-led re; routine etc with DS but I have to be a bit more prepared to let him cry it out a bit - if I'm trying to get DD to toddler group or whatever, sometimes he has to be grumpy/ignored for a couple of minutes. I'm going the other way a bit with DD now - I'm thinking a routine would be useful, having a fixed time for bed etc. Just trying to get DH organised & on board with it, and hopefully we'll start getting our evenings back!!!

I lurve my close carrier today. DS has been a bit more tricky to work out what he wants, so when he got grumpy & I had to make lunch for DD & I, I just chucked him on me, and went on with lunch making. He fell asleep sucking my t-shirt. smile

ValiumQueen Sat 12-Jan-13 13:27:31

I like puréed food for baby. I love making it and freezing it and introducing a new food every three days and choosing different combinations of foods. I love it! I combine finger foods as well. I especially like sweet potato purée! Nom Nom! Both my girls started on baby rice at 5 1/2 months as they were big and ready. I invisage the same with boy.

Crap night again. DH did not want to give a bottle as he was about to have his supper. Twat. How many meals have I missed, or eaten cold or one handed because of feeding? He is having the sodding bottle tonight though. I need to know if it helps his sleep and I have a bit to use up. I have pretty much decided to stop expressing, and if he needs a bottle if I am out or whatever, it can be formula.

So, what is the cheapest formula? I know the tins work out cheaper, but what brand should I go for? I have some HIPP organic in a little carton. Is it ok to gove this but then give a different brand or should I just stick to one brand?

Lane81 Sat 12-Jan-13 13:39:37

I love your posts too GT! I had lunch with a friend yesterday who is also organising a Lori for this weekend, sounds amazing! Am quite envious!

In not religious too Det, so I feel like I'm missing out. I did consider a naming ceremony, but not sure. Is anyone else doing this or organising Christenings etc already? Part of me thinks it would be exhausting, another part thinks it would be really amazing to bring everyone together. (Kind of my feelings about our wedding too!)

Thanks for all the info on weaning. I'm quite excited by this phase (though not the nappies) I'm intending to go the BLW way, but my sort of relaxed interpretation of it, which means i'll prob give purée too. The children I know who aren't fussy about food were weaned this way, and I think I'm pretty normal in just going with what I know, which is different for everyone. Gosh, it seems this debate is as big as bottle vs. breast. I had no idea! GT if you do go to the class, share with us what they say!!

ChunkyChicken Sat 12-Jan-13 13:42:10

Not an expert VQ but they're legally all the same nutritionally, so I've seen it recommended that you get whichever one is easiest to buy locally to you (I.e. the corner shop or 24hr supermarket iyswim). I'm also led to believe that you shouldn't keep chopping & changing. Give 1 formula for at least 2wks to make sure it isn't the switching itself unsettling baby's tum. I found, however, that buying a big tub for DD's formula at 9mths meant I couldn't actually use it all within the "use by" 6wk period. If you buy a tub, and only give 1 bottle a day, then you'll potentially have a lot hanging around for longer than it should iyswim. As for not expressing, I did that with DD. I made the occassional bottle up using the leakage I collected in the shells & if she needed more, I had a stand-by carton. I figure she was still ebf even if she had an 'emergency' non-Mummy milk bottle. I'm going back to expressing & shell use next week & intend to get ds to take a bottle, come hell or high water! smile

Lane81 Sat 12-Jan-13 13:43:32

VQ-I like the idea of a menu of purée!

I tried Hipp and it made my LO constipated. We changed to Aptamil as recommended by HV and its really good so far. think its also the cheapest and def the most readily available. We gave a bottle the last two nights in a row and she slept 11-6, feel like a new woman!

ChunkyChicken Sat 12-Jan-13 13:46:05

Lane we had a "welcome to the world" party for DD when she was about 8wo. At PIL house and all v low key, but it was lovely to have all the family & friends there. Was June though, so a LOT easier than this time of year.

Oh GT just had a thought. Is there a word limit on our 2 posts allocation? Otherwise we'll all end up posting super epic posts yes detective I'm talking about you for our 2 a day wink

BigPigLittlePig Sat 12-Jan-13 14:07:48

Forgive me but I need a teeny tiny mini RANT angry

Now, I love dsd (5) very much, and up until last week she has been no trouble at all since LO arrived, but today she has driven me to distraction. It will sound petty but need to let off steam.
She won't play alone (never has)
She won't play with us
She sulks at EVERYTHING
She won't eat normal food
She will however talk back and give dh lots of attitude.

At the risk of being the evil stepmother, have sent her to her room to play for an hour, sent dh out for a drive and am currently cleaning up ranting.

Sorry - feels better to type like a maniac and get the ranting out the system.

Oh, and don't make us limit posts, we'd end up doing IOU's for the next days posts anyway, particularly on ranty days.

StuntNun Sat 12-Jan-13 14:10:34

They didn't have blw when I weaned DS2 and he LOVED pureed sweet potato and continued to ask for 'orange mush' long after he was well on to solids. Both DS1 and DS2 loved the baby spaghetti bolognese that comes dried and you make up with hot water. I imagined myself making everything from scratch but when DS1 wouldn't eat it became easier to use packets and jars because there wasn't the emotional response when he refused to eat the food I had lovingly prepared. At 18 months the only thing he would reliably eat was peas! Neither DS1 or DS2 ever opened their mouth to be fed puree, you either had to prise their teeth open shock or trick them with the choo choo train into the tunnel which never worked very well. After all the stress of weaning them I'm going to try blw this time. As with all things though I'll take my cues from the baby and see what suits him best. There's no point being dogmatic about it. I'll try everything and see how he responds.

I think it's useful to have discussion on here, both for the FTMs and for those of us trying something different this time. Until I had DS1 I had no clue how to feed a baby. I got into a real mess until I saw DMIL feed him. I hadn't realised you were supposed to scoop up the stuff they push out with their tongue and feed it to them again!

PetiteRaleuse Sat 12-Jan-13 14:11:53

Lane Hipp made DD1 even more constipated than usual switched to Aptamil which is slightly better.

KissysUnderTheMisteltoe Sat 12-Jan-13 14:37:49

It does make me laugh how some people, such as AK or GF are treated as villains on here! I thought the book was good for inspiration anyway smile

I'm sure BLW is very safe really but I have a complete paranoia about choking after something happened to a friend of a friends toddler. It's just not for me but I do think it helps them feed themselves better

Passmethecrisps Sat 12-Jan-13 14:49:43

Hipp also made Penelope even more consipated. We moved to aptimal before the CMPI discovery. Make a decision VQ and stick to one. Mind you, only one carton a day is unlikely to make an enormous difference. Aptimal is the most expensive but very easy to get a hold of. Actually, VQ we have some cartons of both Hipp and Aptimal which we can't use as well as some sealed powder - would you like them?

horseylady Sat 12-Jan-13 14:51:24

I use sma. Being the paranoid person that I am I lined the four brands up and read the ingredients. They are all essentially the same. Just different quantities of whatever.

I use sma because that's what we were given in hospital and I saw no reason to change. People say aptimal is most like breast milk but see my previous paragraph.

PetiteRaleuse Sat 12-Jan-13 14:54:59

Aptamil say that Aptamil is the most like breastmilk. I think they got done for misleading advertising on that one according to a (anti ff) thread I read last year.

Passmethecrisps Sat 12-Jan-13 15:13:26

I think Hipp now make some claim about praebiotics and similarly to breast milk. We were given aptimal by the hospital - i was asked if i had a preferance and when i said no they offered that. Cow and Gate and Aptimal are made by Milupa in the same factory. Interestingly, the only brand that the hospital didn't stock was Hipp. No idea why. The SMA mini-bottled look lovely irrelevant I know but they are very cute

I am another one who had no idea that weaning was such a heated topic. I also think noone on this group should apologise for airing their opinions. Just as we no longer apologise for 'too much information' I think we all know each other well enough now to know that we are all awesome grown up enough to share and take on board other opinions.

I was given an AK book for Christmas by a pal. I am flicking through it right now. It shall take pride of place next to my Gina Ford contented baby book! At the end of the day I think it all comes down to individual families and what works for them. I also think that babies lead most of it anyway whether they are knowingly 'baby-led' or not. For example, penny has become a Gina Ford baby - I didn't try to make her that but took wee ideas about bath time. Turns out P likes sleeping and likes routine. I don't think for a minute that we could make her follow that structure if she wasn't hard-wired that way. Or rather she would eventually follow a routine but it would be a long, hard journey.

On that note, I have learned this week that Penny is over dozing off in swings, car seats or bouncers. Baskets are for sleeping. Sometimes people but mostly baskets. This is fine with me but I have had to be much more aware of her sleepy cues which I haven't been up until now. Previously I just assumed she would doze off wherever she was. Now I have to watch her and put her down properely.

I have also noticed that she doesn't give hungry cues anymore. Certainly not ones I recognise anymore.

Everyday is different!

ShellyBobbs Sat 12-Jan-13 15:28:17

Evil Thinking of you, hope things settle down and a BIG apology reaches you very soon x

This is the first time I've heard of 'baby let weaning', I had to look it up to see what it was all about. It's pretty much how I've weaned my 3 anyway but they always eat what we eat blended then I put some of the veg that's in the food near them (chopped up) so they can munch on it if they wish. All 3 are now totally different with their eating and they were all weaned the same, one turned into a fuss pot at about 6 after eating anything, one turned into a fuss pot about 2 then at 10 decided that it was babyish to be refusing foods and now eats anything and the other has always eaten anything put in front of her, so I really do think as long as they get a varied diet when weaning it's pot luck how they eat further along the line. Just make sure you keep trying them with different foods and keep offering it even if it disgusts them smile

I'm very tired today. Night feeds are still midnight, 3am, 4.30am, 6am and 7am, it isn't easing at all. Oh well, at least it means that I can carry on eating the Christmas puddings and brandy sauce - there's an upside to everything! grin

Passmethecrisps Sat 12-Jan-13 15:41:30

I'm with you shelly. I am the middle child of 3 - we were traditionally weened as I imagine most people born in the 70s were. My big brother is rake thin and has a very peculiar attitude to food - won't eat meat that looks like meat, everything needs to be massively over cooked, nothing too strong tasting, huge portions but tiny appitite. My sister is overweight and eats through boredom and comfort. She eats pretty much anything but has a real weakness for high fat foods. I used to suck the marrow out of chicken bones. I also though being fussy was babyish. My mum says we all had very distinct attitudes towards food as small babies which continued into adulthood.

ValiumQueen Sat 12-Jan-13 15:51:00

pass yes please grin I would love to give them a home grin

I think I used SMA for DD 1 from 8 months, although cannot be sure as it was such a long time ago.

I agree, with just one bottle a day, there is waste with a tub, but I used to use it to mix with porridge etc when I used it occasionally for DD2. I hated throwing the remainder away after 4 weeks. It is still cheaper doing that than buying the cartons if you use it regularly.

Passmethecrisps Sat 12-Jan-13 15:53:54

Awesome VQ. They are just going to get chucked out otherwise.

Thechick Sat 12-Jan-13 16:17:26

I think I'm being the same kind of parent with ds1 and ds2. I'm a bit more relaxed this time but I was quite relaxed the first time too. I haven't had time to read all the posts and I hope im not repeating what some one else has said, but my experience in regard to weaning is that they would eat most anything when they are 6 months. My ds1 was a bit of a fussy eater but in a kind of healthy way. He would eat fish, most veg, chicken, rice and fruit, but didn't like pasta or onions in his gravy. It was all stuff I could work with. He now eats or will try most things. I didn't make a big deal out of it. His fussiness started at about 2 and I think it was because he wasn't having all foods regularly. If there was a food he hadn't had recently, he was more likely to refuse it.

Thechick Sat 12-Jan-13 16:20:10

I'm umming and arring about getting ewan the sheep, does it really work? Has anyone found that it didn't work??

Thechick Sat 12-Jan-13 16:22:22

Also I'm scared that if it does work, am I just pushing sleep issues backward as he's not learning to self soothe and is relying on a sheep.

StuntNun Sat 12-Jan-13 16:24:46

Chick my DS2 wouldn't go to sleep unless he was hugging his Piglet toy until he was just over 6 at which point he abruptly stopped caring. He still has Piglet in his bed but he doesn't look for him when he goes to bed now. So I think the same will happen with the sheep - they'll only need it up to a point.

Thechick Sat 12-Jan-13 16:24:56

Oh, I went to a parent and baby showing of les mis yesterday. Complete chaos. Not sure if I'm going to go to one again. It was packed and all the babies seemed unhappy.

Thechick Sat 12-Jan-13 16:26:58

I don't remember ds1 having anything to begin with. Had a Micky mouse when he was about 4

ChunkyChicken Sat 12-Jan-13 16:58:46

My DD developed a need for cuddling & poking it in her eye!!! shock a muslin, perhaps because she was always on one as a sicky baby, when she was over 6mths definitely, possibly over a year. DS seems to want something to bury his face in to.--Why are my kids freaks? Eye poking & self-asphyxiation??!!!! blush-- I think if baby settles well when sung to or shushed, Ewan is a good bet. DS, for example, doesn't seem bothered by the quiet or need a nightlight to sleep, as long as he can squish his face!!

PetiteRaleuse Sat 12-Jan-13 17:19:06

For the moment LO doesn't have anything to help her settle. DD1 was the same until she was about 15 months, then she suddenly got attached to a soft dog toy that she won't sleep or eat or go anywhere without now.

vq when we had our infant training at work they told us about the differences between the formulas - they all contain exactly the same minerals etc the differences were the percentages of casein and something else my baby brain has forgot and it's pros and cons which of course I can't remember must dig out my book of notes anyway aptamil was said to be slightly better than the others hth

I have no idea what blw is???? With ds(13) I started on baby rice, then introduced purees gradually increasing lumps/strong flavours and offering finger foods. I also gave him a spoon then fork as soon as he could hold it.

Although I'm wanting to go into midwifery where I will have to promote a lot of governmental advice - ie feet to foot, sleeping on the back, co-sleeping etc.... But I am a bigggg believer in mothers instinct - mothers have been winging it before cavemen were around and as a species we've survived.

The only way Dottie will have a nap during the day is on her tummy - I'm in the room and after Isaac slept on his front from birth and Tallulah on her back - guess which one we had problems with mild plagiocephaly??? Even though she had loads of tummy time.

I'm just gonna follow my instincts and go with whatever fits in with me and my family - so far so good lol

horseylady Sat 12-Jan-13 17:48:26

Pass - our babies have obviously been talking to one another!! Ds is a routine baby. Works well for me and my daily rituals routines.

He's 11weeks old today!!! This time 11weeks ago I was exhausted and being prepped for theatre!! Today he's spent most of the day giggling and eating his fist!!

I also think this thread is superb!!

StuntNun Sat 12-Jan-13 17:52:21

I believe Aptamil is thought to be the best because they were the first to introduce probiotics. All the brands have them in now though so there isn't much difference between them. Just use whichever is cheapest/easiest to get/agrees with your baby.

I'm off out for dinner, DM is babysitting all three of them the brave soul. She is armed with the Amazing Spider-Man DVD and two bottles of EBM.

Bryzoan Sat 12-Jan-13 18:17:15

Bplp - from memory BLISS recommend weaning prem's earlier rather than later. Counterintuitive - but they have more need for it earlier apparently. I think the rec is 4 months - though I waited till 5 with dd1. Double check though.

horseylady Sat 12-Jan-13 18:44:22

Right. My pelvic floor feels bruised. Just near where I wee. It has done a few times but I was expecting it to wear off. it's an odd feeling. high impact stuff and I'm still leaking bug can ride/walk etc and can control myself. I don't know what it is? Because if the leaking I've not been doing much high impact exercise as I don't want extra damage but wondering if 11 weeks post birth is too soon to speak to the gp?!

I'm doing pelvic floor exercises. Its now starting to bother me!!

Sophiathesnowfairy Sat 12-Jan-13 19:32:54

horsey I still get tiny little leaks when I run or do jumping jacks and I am really good about my pelvic floors. I have decided to be super good about them from now on in the hope I can stop the leakage.

There're always Tena wink

PetiteRaleuse Sat 12-Jan-13 19:33:16

It it's bothering you horsey have a word with your doctor. Could be an infection, or ould just be bruising, but worth getting checked out

Evilwater Sat 12-Jan-13 19:48:07

An update,
We had a talk and he is sorry for saying what he did. It was the heat of the moment thing. There are some ground rules, he is still a dick.

I'm going back tomorrow.

PetiteRaleuse Sat 12-Jan-13 19:56:55

Evil so glad you have posted. I'm glad things are sorting themselves out. Good luck for tomorrow, and we are here if you need to rant

ValiumQueen Sat 12-Jan-13 20:10:26

evil hopefully he has learned his lesson.

horsey could it be a UTI?

Well, J refused a bottle of expressed milk that had been frozen. I didn't actually care that 8oz of bm was poured down the sink. The fact I did not care, shows how I feel. I have a decided no more expressing unless to relieve discomfort from engorgement, if I miss a feed for some reason. If he needs a bottle when I am having my hair cut, for example, then he shall have formula. We will try him with a bottle of formula tomorrow evening so I can have an early night. I have done well. It is harder this time, and I have my other children, and my own sanity and health to consider. I am happy with my decision smile

PetiteRaleuse Sat 12-Jan-13 20:13:34

You have done very well VQ xx I imagine ebf must be even harder witholderchildren demanding attention

Lane81 Sat 12-Jan-13 20:37:40

That sounds like a good decision VQ, and exactly what you would have told one of us to do. Well done, it's tough, and I know how much thought you've put into it, it sounds best for you and your family xx

nillynoon Sat 12-Jan-13 21:23:07

You have done brilliantly VQ and your decision sounds well thought out and sensible x

blonderthanred Sat 12-Jan-13 21:27:35

VQ I found expressing so difficult and I don't have 2 other children to look after! Like everyone else says you can only do what's best for you and your family. I've only been able to do it since I've had the hospital pump and even then only when someone else holds the baby!

I didn't find any difference in sleeping pattern last night but L has always been more regular so hopefully it will help you achieve that or at least relieve you of a feed. We are nearly at 12 weeks now which is the magic point when it all gets better right?!

Evil I am glad you are sorting things out. Sorry you have had to go through this.

I definitely am not able to fit in as many feeds as I was (6/7 rather than 8-10) but I am hopeful that he is taking in more per feed and my supply is slowly increasing, it feels that way. He looks chubbier already and loads of wet nappies. No poo yet so we will see how the formula comes out the other end...

TheDetective Sat 12-Jan-13 21:37:24

Evening smile Promise no epic post from me today!

VQ You know what is the best thing for your family! It is a hard decision to make, but the relief once it has been made is immense. I use Cow & Gate as it is the cheapest out of the formulas. There is a £3 difference between that and Aptamil. That is approx £150 extra over a year (obv. if bottlefeeding alone). Didn't see what was worth an extra £150. They are made by the same company, in the same factory.

Aptamil just has better marketing/advertisers/bullshitters grin. (Maybe that is why the price is higher!)

I'd of tried SMA next if Oscar hadn't been fine with it. Then Aptamil if that didn't work... you catch how I'm working this don't you!

Oscar has slept most of the day again. Or played happily when awake. He has self settled in the swing. I have felt redundant. shock

Maybe things will start getting easier - as in getting stuff done! Today I have done shit loads of washing and ironing. I feel all in order now! I have also sorted all Oscars up to 1 month clothes out to sell on eBay, including ironing and photographing all the bastard things!

katkit1 Sat 12-Jan-13 21:42:24

Good decision Vq- I have never been able to express ever.

it feels like Alex takes the lot each time, when the time comes for a break i will ff.

Going to start introducing 1 bottle per day at 5 months - ready to fill the porker up with lovely solids at 6 months

Sophiathesnowfairy Sat 12-Jan-13 21:43:17

vq wise decision,I don't know how you kept going bfing and expressing with the other kiddos. Xx

evil am so glad you are on the road to recovery with your DP.

Good luck with your formula nappies blonder grin

DH has offered to do the 10:30 feed so am making the most of it and have come to bed early. Is weird as we have put up the cot so Olly is no longer right by my side but at the bottom of the bed. I feel a bit exposed!

horseylady Sat 12-Jan-13 21:45:51

Vq - you're amazing xx

Was wondering uti. Never had one. I did have a catheter. It's just odd.

TheDetective Sat 12-Jan-13 21:56:23

Horsey - I have a similar pain too. I am at clinic next week to discuss the shite that is my perineum. I will be discussing this also. Will let you know what is said.

I have a feeling it is trauma from the catheter though sad But we shall see...

TheDetective Sat 12-Jan-13 21:57:08

I don't leak btw, and the pain is every time I wee. sad

nillynoon Sat 12-Jan-13 22:19:51

It does sound like a uti, combined with catheter trauma.....did you have an instrumental delivery?

horseylady Sat 12-Jan-13 22:28:14

You see there's no pain when I wee. It feels like I've been kicked there. The pain goes outside in. Like someone has shoved something up there. It just feels very bruised. And now it's started to annoy me because the rest of down there feels ok.

Yes forcep delivery. Episiotomy, 3rd degree but my understanding was I was cut backwards. I had four days off riding to see if it eased. It has not.

I might call the dr Monday. May as well make Monday's a regular outing smile

horseylady Sat 12-Jan-13 22:29:40

Detective I only leak with high impact so jumping jacks and I did leak running but that has eased. The leaking I can put down to a weakness. This feeling I can't?!

Passmethecrisps Sat 12-Jan-13 22:33:49

Bloody effing jeffing Nora trapped wind is a bitch! At least I think that is what it was. P had a nice day - we all just hung around the house together keeping things low key. Bath was nice, didn't cry when being dryed and moisturised. Came down the stairs chattering away to her about dinner and bed time when all of a sudden she started to wail then let rip with the screaming. DH was on the phone, dropped it and came running through thinking she was hurt or something. She screamed this ear piercing scream completely inconsolable. She did this on Thursday - all day. I put her on my knee and we did some leg cycling. Then she just stopped. Whimpered a bit for a minute but was better. DH couldn't believe it. I honestly think he was a heartbeat away from calling an ambulance! When he came home on Thursday (p had recovered by the time he came home but was a bit grumpy) I had a wee cry - now he sees why!

Anyway, all better now. Thank heavens.

Good decision VQ - you have given everything to your children. You deserve to keep your sanity at least!

Poor bits horsey and detective. My bits still seem a bit achey nearly 9 weeks on. Odd

Happy 11 week birthday horseyfoal! I always think it's amazing that at the moment 2 weeks difference in babies seems massive. Developmentally they seems poles apart sometimes. When they are just a few years old they will be the same. Does that sound stupid? It seemed sensible in my head but seems odd written down.

PetiteRaleuse Sat 12-Jan-13 22:34:54

Has E's bronchiolitis sorted itself horsey ?

Passmethecrisps Sat 12-Jan-13 22:38:17

That's a good question petite! I keep forgetting things I mean to ask!

Also, who was it who posted the Tim Minchin link? I love Tim Minchin - that song makes me laugh a lot. White Wine in the Sun is also my favourite Christmas song ever ever ever. I couldn't listen to it this year though as I was too blubby

horseylady Sat 12-Jan-13 22:49:56

Yes he's still coughing but eating is pretty much back to normal!!

Two weeks makes a hell of a difference pass. I can't believe how interactive he is. He laughs so much and smiles. He hardly cries and when he does within minutes you can make him laugh again. He's still got little interest in toys though!

evil that's progress - stand your ground and make sure dp understands why he can't say those things!!

vq hope life gets a little easier now x

How do you get your lo's to self settle?? Dottie will only fall asleep in my arms or in car seat. It seems she has 5 minute power naps and is then wide awake again, I've ordered GF book and am awaiting for the happiest baby on the block as well as halfway through baby love - I'm on my 3 rd baby and I'm ordering every book available lol - just trying to find a routine before march - with my other two I was a sahm so things just fell into place eventually.

Have just booked our sun £9.50 holiday to Cornwall wooooo - 11/3 can't wait!!!!

PetiteRaleuse Sat 12-Jan-13 23:57:02

Great news horsey . Apparently the cough can linger for a while. LO still coughs when she wakes up.

TooManyDicksOnTheDancefloor Sun 13-Jan-13 01:54:30

I use the baby whisperer glenda. All I do is wait for sleepy cues, usually a yawn, then I Swaddle, put a dummy in and put her in her basket, in her room, in the dark. She has a blanket rolled up next to her to nuzzle her face into and that's it. She usually has her eyes open when I walk away but goes to sleep on her own. If she cries out it's usually because she lost her dummy so I might have to go back in once or twice. I use the monitor to listen out. B naps four times a day 1-1.5 hours a time. Then bed at 7.30.

GTbaby Sun 13-Jan-13 02:05:12

Let's have a lurkers amnesty ! Come on ladies. Just say hi. ( in just curious how many of us are still about grin)

Today was fun. Not a big thing (that's tomorrow!) but had to cook clean look after LO so busy.
Tomorrow is going to be hecktik. Need to pick up cakes to put on cake stands which are acting as our centre pieces on each table. Need to drop everything off at venue. Need to go get hair n make up done. Need to go n set up before 6. You will see me hear tomorrow same time, exhausted!

On post rations. i think a word limit is needed. The time saved from reading fewer posts can b directed towards word counting. On post bartering there needs to be some system. Ie a poster who basically lurks can't give to det a long poster. As I feel lurkers will be hounded for their allocation. Also I feel like the bartering should be done on the thread, so there is an open and honest market. U dont want to give up a ration for a baby grow n then find out someone else is selling their posts for 3 nights of baby sitting. I do understand this adds to the posts, but will think up a system. Also a post on a weekend may be worth more then week days?

Ok I'm loosing the plot!

However this randomness has distracted me from my shoulder blade pain which I think is linked to the boob pain I'm getting. I think it muscular caused by picking LO.

Right need to SLEEP now as need to get up at 7 n shower before lo wakes.

Night night wine

waves grin

Well everyone here is asleep, me not so much, my stupid brain has decided this will be an excellent opportunity to analyse everything I've ever said/done and how things may have been different and how I feel about it all...... Gee thanks brain, just what I needed!

StuntNun Sun 13-Jan-13 02:21:09

I'm awake too Tits. The feckin' loft hatch fell open with a big crash and woke me up an hour ago. Now I'm wideawake while J is fast asleep. I'm so pissed off as this could have been my best night's sleep since he was born.

Catbag Sun 13-Jan-13 02:30:19

You need to have a word with your brain tits and go to sleep!

I am sat here wondering why no one ever offers to look after the babies while I go and have a bath. I smell quite ripe and I am a bit sick of it. I will wash tomorrow. Somehow :-|

Well done vq for taking your own advice.

GTbaby Sun 13-Jan-13 02:31:23

Omg tits. I hate it when that happens. On no stunt shock

Right I'm putting my phone away now.

Catbag Sun 13-Jan-13 02:38:54

Or least the sort of advice that you would have given to others. I know that it wasn't what you wanted x

Catbag Sun 13-Jan-13 02:39:36

Lol, night GT!

StuntNun Sun 13-Jan-13 02:46:59

Catbag with DS1 I used to put him in the stroller in the bathroom while I had a quick bath. That way I could talk to him and keep him occupied for a bit longer. Would that work with your two?

I got fed up so I've gone for a stroll around the village, DP was somewhat alarmed by this but didn't budge so I assume he's fine with J tucked under his arm. Got a sodding cat harassing me though :/

StuntNun Sun 13-Jan-13 03:30:41

Hope you're okay Tits.

rowingdowntheriver Sun 13-Jan-13 03:39:20

Ha ha gt, I love that you have devised a way to trade word limits! A bit like emissions trading but for mumsnet usage.

Following on from that thinking, maybe we ought to have a ticker tape flashing along the bottom of our screen to show the current price that words are trading at. We would also need 'Buy' and 'Sell' buttons for words.

Maybe at the end of each day there could be a summary on the mumsnet home page showing daily movement on word prices. Eg, 'at close o business today words trading up 114 points on yesterday'

Come to think of it, should it be letters rather than words that we trade or else long words would cost the same price as short ones? Or would that just encourage us to use txt spk?

rowingdowntheriver Sun 13-Jan-13 03:44:32

Oh, think I'm getting carried away with your idea gt as am trying to work out how you could charge interest on lending out words. I could lend you 10 words to use today but I'd want 11 words back tomorrow.

There may be also the possibility to donate words to posters that we want to hear more from.

rowingdowntheriver Sun 13-Jan-13 03:46:51

If prices became too expensive some people may end up moving over to netmums.

Have I got a bit carried away with this?

rowingdowntheriver Sun 13-Jan-13 03:49:04

Ps, if anyone wants a game of scrabble on words with friends, pm me your user name!

StuntNun Sun 13-Jan-13 03:55:41

Can't sleep either Rowing?

StuntNun Sun 13-Jan-13 03:56:00

Wait a minute were we doing a post allowance or a word allowance?

StuntNun Sun 13-Jan-13 03:56:48

Am I seriously eating into my post allowance right now? Am I going to have to limit my number of posts next week? Am I going to have to <gulp> go MN cold turkey?

StuntNun Sun 13-Jan-13 03:58:00

Quick get Catbag, Tits and GT back on here. We could finish the thread tonight between us. That would be a surprise for everyone else in the morning wouldn't it?

ValiumQueen Sun 13-Jan-13 04:32:54

I seriously worry about the sanity of some of you!

Thank you all for your positive feedback.

Now go the fuck to sleep!

TooManyDicksOnTheDancefloor Sun 13-Jan-13 04:56:44

Rowing, I can't PM on my phone but my username is Hayl79.

Lane81 Sun 13-Jan-13 05:08:56

I'm liking the post bartering system if it includes babysitting, a chance for a bath catbag?!

I also do the pushchair in the bathroom thing.

My LO has never self settled, is always fed to sleep. Perhaps this is why she doesn't go to sleep till 11pm?! Though she doesn't get sleepy till then either . I'm hoping it works out naturally!

Thechick Sun 13-Jan-13 05:10:13

Any thoughts on Ewan the sheep??

kirrinIsland Sun 13-Jan-13 05:12:36

I would be seriously impressed if you manahed to finish the thread tonight - but not thar surprised, the rate some of you can talk!

I think a word count is better than a letter count, txt spk would drive me mental - not least because I'm old and I don't understand it.

Hope your brain has calmed down a bit tits and it let you go to sleep.

About to attempt transfer - it has not been going well lately so I expect I'll be back in a minute......

rowingdowntheriver Sun 13-Jan-13 05:19:53

toomanydicks, I've just started a game with you (my name is iwanttobenigella)

Yes stunt, not much sleep going on over here tonight. I'd love to but LO has a blocked nose so is only managing 2 second feeds before giving up but that means he wakes v v v regularly. sad

Lane81 Sun 13-Jan-13 05:37:55

I like the idea of a welcome to the world party!

Lane81 Sun 13-Jan-13 05:40:07

Sorry Chick, I'm also interested in any Ewan failures, but presume everyone has had positive experiences?!

pikz Sun 13-Jan-13 05:49:21

VQ god decision. Save your own sanity.

I had a big breakdown after DP got drunk at a party we were at. My first time out without baby. Told him I feel lost and unsupported. His life hasn't changed an ounce. I'm currently ill with a bad cold and still doing everything. LO didn't go to sleep til 1.20 and woke at 5. Feel a little on my knees. I just need a rest and I don't know when I'm going to get it.

Sorry I probably exceeded my word and post count! smile Just feeling a bit sorry for myself and hoping the feeling to quickly pass through.

pikz Sun 13-Jan-13 05:53:15

Chick Ewan is a god on this household!

nillynoon Sun 13-Jan-13 06:09:11

Toby is immune to white noise, tried the app on him to no effect, so haven't bothered with a Ewan

Catbag Sun 13-Jan-13 06:47:43

pikz It is hard, isn't it? On the one hand, I am glad that having the babies doesn't impact as him qute as hard as me because I kniw he would not cope as well with it as I do. He almost had a nervous breakdown in those three days that I was in hospital after the twins were born as he was looking after the elder three kids. On the other hand, when feeling sorry for myself, I could punch him on the nose for being able to attend his lectures at uni/ play on his games/ go for a bath whenever he wants not that he bothers that often . I have found myself mentally repeating the mantra 'this too shall pass' to myself. Often. To be fair, the babies are twelve weeks old now and I am finding it easier. Just have to write 2000 words on the intestacy rules before next Thursday and 12000 words on state accountability for breaches of jus cogens with regard to torture before mid April and all will be shiny how the fuck did I think that I could finish my final year of uni with twins in tow

Catbag Sun 13-Jan-13 06:49:49

And whoever suggested a defection to netmums in the event of exceeding their post count should take themselves outside and give themselves a beating!

Sophiathesnowfairy Sun 13-Jan-13 07:00:34

I think we might be 9week growth spurt. We have been sleeping through from11-6/6:30 and last night up at 4 then grumbled on ad of till 5:30. Then ds1 up at 6 with an exploding nappy.

Thanks boys.

MadamGazelleIsMyMum Sun 13-Jan-13 07:52:36

pikz IMHO that is one of the hardest things - DH's life continues pretty much as normal while I recover from being hit my a truck emotionally and physically, plus take care of everyone else and be in charge at home and don't get to escape to work anymore. And I say this to him and he claims to understand and then swans out to his expensive hobby while I haven't had 2 mins to myself

VQ very sensible. Of course it is. I am giving S increasing bottles now ready for my return to work (I do not intend to express). A sure you know this, but be prepared for how it feels hormonally to give formula. S also smells different since I have started the switchover in earnest. Not sure if anyone else found that ignores the little voice that reminds me my sense of smell is acute when preg, along with those vivid dreams which haven't gone away

GTbaby Sun 13-Jan-13 07:58:43

I am really re thinking the word count issue. As like a letter count it will encourage txt speak n poor sentence structure. Haha.

Pikz. With our party tonight I KNOW DH will be trashed by the end of it. Oh well. Actually don't wana think about it.
Ewan is good. But LO still slept fine since battery died. So not sure he is a life saver. However LO is quite a good sleeper...

Gona try sleep for another hour then gota get up n get sorted by 1pm for my hair n make up session.

Thechick Sun 13-Jan-13 08:18:31

I would not be able to be a good parent if dh didn't support the family in the way that he does. He does at least 50% of the housework, probably more and looks after the LO a lot during the weekends and when he gets home in the evening. We are both his parents and we both live in this house, he knows his responsibilities and does what needs to be done, in the same way that I do. He's an adult, and that's what adults are supposed to do. It really saddens me that so many of you guys have dp issues. It's really not fair if childcare and house work aren't shared equally.

I think we aren't going to go for ewan, I need a miracle and I don't think I'm going to get that in a sheep. H still sleeps so badly. He's so congested at night though, so that is part of it.

GTbaby Sun 13-Jan-13 08:28:50

Can't sleep hmm having the to many thoughts in my head issue.

Chick having a sometimes crappy husband sucks. But I guess he is good in lots of ways too. Argh not sure what point I was trying to mk lol something about it would b nice if he was perfect all the time. But then he would b a very different person.

KissysUnderTheMisteltoe Sun 13-Jan-13 08:31:17

My poor baby LO has chicken pox! confused this probably explains last nights screaming session, poor little thing

Bryzoan Sun 13-Jan-13 08:51:28

Sophia, that sounds familliar. G was sleeping really well - but has had a rubbish cold so I've seen nearly every hour the last few nights. Then had to get up with dd1 at 6.30 or 7... If he does not start sleeping through again my boobs will explode.

I swing between feeling like supermum, and then not managing at all. Dd1 is starting a nursery/preschool 2 mornings a week at the moment but because of her extra needs I need to go with her this month. Which would be really fun if it wasn't for having to take G too and being so knackered. At one point last week I had him crying in his sling, and her standing on my leg and absielling from my hair, screaming. While all the other toddlers were off happily washing hands for snack time in a perfect crocodile. It is hard seeing the differences sometimes. Then to top it off I had to go straight from there to G's weekly hip check an hour away. Was out the house with him from 7.45am to 4.30pm in total. On next to no sleep. I hate Thursdays.... Still, at least his hips are improving. And dh is mostly great - but when I got home to "how would you feel about me going out this evening?" when he had also been out leaving me to juggle bedtime alone the night before that was nearly the last straw. Both evenings were work related though so hard to say no to (though he ended up staying in Thursday so I can't complain too much).

Sorry for the whinge.

Evil - glad things are looking better, but please don't settle for any crap and do look out for your and Nick's best interests. You both deserve to be loved and cherished. I can't quite get over what your dp said - it really is mind blowing. The text after was a bit crap too. Though all these men seem to think "time off" can be magicked from nowhere and is their basic birth right. I hope to train G a little better!

And good luck to all with feeding issues and other problems.

Hope your party goes well gt - looking forward to reading about it. I somehow think there might be a story or two!

Happy morning everyone!

Bryzoan Sun 13-Jan-13 08:59:06

I meant if he starts sleeping again my boobs will explode.

Kissy - oh no - chicken pox! Hope he doesn't get it too badly :-(

Gt and tits "toomanythoughtsitis" is also rubbish. I write them down sometimes to kid myself I'll come back to them later. Seems to help.

Thechick - your dp sounds awesome. Fancy starting a training camp? though actually mine has been pretty great the last few months too.

blonderthanred Sun 13-Jan-13 09:14:46

Wow that was some good night time chatting!

I've got a bit behind on my feeding schedule. I'm still on my 6am feed. But it only started at 8.45. Oops.

Re. Ewan: I love him, he is not a miracle but will help L drop off and set a night time feeling. Also if L wakes up in the night then I can put on Ewan and he'll drop off again. But L did not respond at all to white noise apps. I think it's the heartbeat. I've just bought one for a friend who is waiting to drop.

For anyone who does have a Ewan already, in case you hadn't realised he only comes with 'demo batteries' so they don't last long. Have some spares ready.

PetiteRaleuse Sun 13-Jan-13 09:18:33

kissy sad sorry about the pox. I suppose at least now he will have had it and you won't need to worry later on when everyone in his glass gets it <straws being clutched> good luck with it.

I didn't sleep last night either but didn't check the thread. Looks like you had lots of, erm, imaginative ideas grin

PetiteRaleuse Sun 13-Jan-13 09:20:37

In his class

Bryzoan Sun 13-Jan-13 09:34:24

Catbag - shock twins and your final year?!? Yowsers. Am in awe of you for trying. Twins would kill me even if I had nothing else on my plate!

Bryzoan Sun 13-Jan-13 09:37:23

Sorry for the sudden rush of posts contrary to gt's rations. Dh is at home this morning so I have the luxury of posting while feeding without dd1 trying to steal my phone!

Thechick Sun 13-Jan-13 09:42:06

My dh is by no means perfect and still gets on my nerves sometimes but he definitely does his share.
Evil * I'm also still amazed at what your DP said. I don't understand how that was even in his head for it to be said. That's awful.

<pops head round the door> I do often read the thread but don't get round to posting.

Sorry to hear lots of you have had poorly babies and OHs being twats. DS has had a heavy cold the last few days and that combined with his first immunisations mean he hasn't been his usual cheerful self. Seems to be on the mend now though.

We bought him a bumbo seat a couple of days ago and he loves it. Anyone else got one? When DP is here he puts him in it and pushes it around the room making car noises while DS giggles away smile

ValiumQueen Sun 13-Jan-13 10:29:03

kissy hopefully it will only be a mild dose. Trouble is if they just get it mildly in infancy, they can get it again. Not sure if little ones can have it, but I found ViralSoothe pretty good, but different stuff worked better later - once spots were sores, sudocream helped a lot. There are some good threads in children's health. I was on one that turned into a support thread, and it was most helpful. Rotten luck x

bry it will be worth it once she is used to it and they are acquainted with her needs. Glad the hips are getting better.

madame he has yet to have a drop of formula, and I am already a bit of a mess, but DH is fully supportive of my decision. I will not be giving any bottles. DH or my mum will.

J had 3 two hour sleeps, then was awake from 4am. Not funny. I said to DH that if things did not get better soon I would swap to full time formula so DH could split the night feeds with me. He is very supportive today [ grin]

I'm fine thanks stunt I like the peacefulness of night time outside. smile I never did get to sleep though, came back in at 3 to feed J then he slept until 8! These 5 hour stretches of sleep are alarming! grin

Got sod all to do today, it's a cold but beautiful day (I'm going to ignore the £400 we've just had to fork out on tyres for the car this morning unexpectedly shock) I'm wanting to go for a walk or something when DP is finished at the garage, maybe a nice duck pond or something.

J is wearing his Gruffalo outfit today, it's fricking adorable! smile

ValiumQueen Sun 13-Jan-13 10:43:53

tits link needed for Gruffalo outfit. Sounds fab!

applepie I have a bumbo. Neither of the girls liked it, but I will try boy in it soon. Not quite sure he is strong enough for it yet. I think horsey has one.

horseylady Sun 13-Jan-13 10:52:50

My dh is ok. He doesn't do any much housework but does play and help out with ds so I can ride. He plays squash so I think were about equal. He works in the day, I look after ds. In the evenings we share it. When we were both working full time plus helping with the family business and me the pub we had a cleaner!! When I go back to work I think I'll get another one.

I can't really advise about self settling. One day I decided to pop him into his basket and just hold him in there. He fell asleep. So that's what we do. Some nights ge doesn't need holding. He's thankfully like us in that routine suits him. Both dh and I also liked routine and still do.

Oh and on fb there was a very beautiful front room. The only time my houses look like that are if they going back onto the rental Market or up for sale!!! It's neat and clean but lived in!!!

Catbag Sun 13-Jan-13 10:54:19

Don't LOs need to be sitting unaided before they can go in a bumbo? <<confused>>

horseylady Sun 13-Jan-13 10:55:10

Bumbo fab!!! Ds likes sitting up. So he can sit up and watch us.

horseylady Sun 13-Jan-13 10:56:20

Cat no they are very well supported. They nee head control but I think you buy a restrained. Will post pics in fb now!

Catbag Sun 13-Jan-13 10:56:39

Ok, scratch my last... I have consulted Professor Google smile

TheDetective Sun 13-Jan-13 10:56:48

Can I post?!!

ValiumQueen Sun 13-Jan-13 10:57:01

3 months up apparently cat but when I put DD1 in at 3 months, she was kinda slumped down and did not look happy.

No catbag it says on the box as long as they can hold their head up on their own, the bumbo helps them sit up. DS is fine in it.

ValiumQueen Sun 13-Jan-13 10:57:59

detective of course!

Catbag Sun 13-Jan-13 10:57:59

Ooo, speedy replying ladies! Am just looking at their website and imagining DH's face when yet more baby equipment appears in the house grin

DS is only 8.5 weeks but he is really strong and has excellent head control.

Catbag Sun 13-Jan-13 10:59:06

detective You are hereby ORDERED to post!

ValiumQueen Sun 13-Jan-13 10:59:12

They come with trays too.

horseylady Sun 13-Jan-13 11:04:23

They do come with trays!! Pics on fb smile

Detective you may!! I'm all for epic posts and many of them smile

Lane81 Sun 13-Jan-13 11:05:45

Another one with a great DH here, he does his share in evenings/weekends and does all nappy changes when here (I'm on inputs, him outputs). He also takes her in the mornings at weekends for a walk so they spend time together and I can sleep. Plus he's averaging 60hr weeks at work (will log on for 4/5 hrs after LO and I go to bed at 11). I feel truly lucky, but he's also just being her other parent and sharing responsibility. I don't know what I'd do without him though and feel really annoyed with the other DH's who aren't pulling their weight.

Yep I've added another pic to fb with the tray on.

GTbaby Sun 13-Jan-13 11:08:37

Detective the post rationing is not being enforced yet. We need a few more night time can't sleep refinement discussions.

TheDetective Sun 13-Jan-13 11:13:38

Bloody men! After a shitty week I was looking forward to DP giving me the night off last night.

It ended up me waking him at 330 (after he had spent from 12-2 trying to get his leg over with no joy grin and me telling him to go the fuck to sleep or he won't manage the feed) and he did manage to get up after a few pokes punches. Then I wake to crying again at 730. Look in basket. No baby. Look at DP. Baby propped up on his knees (?!?!) while he shores the fuck away. Seriously, the baby is crying on him, and this still fails to wake him? Poke punch him again and ask why Oscar is sitting up between his knees. He doesn't know. He asks for his dummy to put him back to slee