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October babies. Don't get lost

(1000 Posts)
lisbethsopposite Sat 08-Dec-12 01:11:25

Come in come in.

lisbethsopposite Sat 08-Dec-12 01:21:07

Whew. Had a panic there and that was the best i could do.

lisbethsopposite Sat 08-Dec-12 01:38:51

BTW I can't log on to the new MN app. I did download it but it does not recognise my username and/or password. Any advice?

Londonmrss Sat 08-Dec-12 01:50:53

marking place.
re self settling, I've just stated it at 6 weeks. I find that it works if she's been up a couple of hours so I know she must be tired. I make sue she's calm and then just pop her gently down. if she's a bit grizzly a dummy seems to do the trick. if she cries, I pick her up and give her a cuddle for 5 mins and then pop her back down. if she cross again I assume it's not time for a nap! sometimes works sometimes doesn't but I suppose it's all good practice.

not a bad night here so far. baby slept for 4 hours on the trot which is best we've ever had. feed her and had her settled back to sleep just 30 mins later. a sign of things to come? (fingers crossed emoticon)

Elpis Sat 08-Dec-12 01:55:56

Can't help you there. Haven't downloaded a new app yet.

beccus My view is that newborns are too young to develop 'bad habits' in the sense we understand the word. They've just emerged from a place where they never had to worry about food or drink or comfort. Now they have to persuade us to give them both and are still utterly dependent on the goodwill of the humans around them. A cuddled baby who's fed to sleep isn't being spoilt - she's just learning to trust her parents to look after her and meet her needs. Sometimes it feels as though they are being wilfully difficult and you have to work so hard to overcome that impatience. I've generally found that giving a baby what she needs reduces the moments of frustration. But I would say that, wouldn't I? smile

Twobuttonsaway Sat 08-Dec-12 02:37:21

Evening all, hope you are well and getting some sleep. Totally agree with elpis comments that you can't spoil a new baby and starting a bedtime routine helped both my DSs to self settle. It doesn't work immediately but do persevere!

Baby buttons is going well, but a bit grumpy after yesterday's 8 week jabs. Last feed of the evening finished at 8pm so am totally chuffed he went through til 2. Here's hoping the next one is morning!

mrsn hope your eyes feel better soon. For those of you who have had a tough day, remember to be kind to yourselves, babies are hard work - you need treats! Take each day as a new day was good advice given to me once! Prescribing cupcakes and hot choc with marshmallows. smile

OctoberOctober Sat 08-Dec-12 02:51:46

Marking place.

I keep attempting to put down DS still awake but keep caving in. hmm

Dp much better, she knows we got into bad routine with ds1 where he had to be lulled to sleep every time and it is exhausting when they get older and are awake longer.

...she says, feeding DS to sleep..

cheesy im so sorry i didnt mean that to be a really nosy qiestion, i was just more concerned that they'd put you on ADs without any kind of long term solution; medicines great for the short term but in the long run, the problem needs to be solved, not just treating the symptoms which is why half my family are addicted to ADshmm

hufflepuffle Sat 08-Dec-12 04:15:03

Just marking spot.........

Woolybob Sat 08-Dec-12 05:49:08

Thanks lisbeth. I'm using app but working fine for me so sorry no advice! Bad connection maybe?

Beccus Sat 08-Dec-12 05:56:30

Thx londonmrs, elpis, october and twobuttons, for your thoughts on settling. i like yours, londonmrs- abandon nap time if bean wont settle-makes sense! May your bean's 4 hr sleep extend. i was told to b/f or express every 2-3 hrs until 6 weeks, so this week have been increasing her long sleep by half an hr per nite so she and my boobs can gradually learn to go longer. she just dud 5 hrs, am delighted! :-)
elpis & two, be gr8 to know more about how your dc1's made the transition to self settling, if u have time to post. oct, if u have time too, what did 'lulling' involve? Thx so much ladies.

Right, catch up time. This may take a while...

Bella, so sorry to hear about your DH's redundancy. It couldn't have happened at a worse time really, could it? But I'm sure that if your DH is anywhere near as great as you, he'll find something very soon! smile One door closes, another one opens - I'm sure bigger and better things are on the horizon.

Squid, please don't be too hard on yourself about post pregnancy figure, it really hasn't been that long. How do you feel when you look in the mirror? Nevermind weights and sizes, I bet you look fab after all your exercise! My size is not much different except everything's a bit soft and wobbly. I don't actually mind being a bit curvier now, but I have lots of expensive jeans I can't fit into! hmm

Huffle, YEY for perky boobs! grin I would definitely recommend laid back feeding, much more comfortable. I hardly ever do cradle hold, except when we're out -kills my back already, hate to think what it'll be like when DS gets bigger.

How are things going, Yomping? I, too have been feeling the rage a bit and have to take a step back.sad I'm fine if things are logical ie. baby cries, gets fed, stops crying. But when he cries for no reason or won't settle it's so frustrating and the lack of sleep makes it so much worse.
Your honesty on here is always refreshing, it sounds like you're doing great. Even though I don't really know you, I can safely say - you're nothing like your dad.
Hope the breast feeding probs are easing now. Up til last week I thought I was getting to the comfortable stage and enjoying it more and more. This week my nips are killing again...angryconfused

Beeble your settling tips are great! I'd been doing the head stroke and holding down his arms, but hadn't tried hand on cheek. Can I also suggest stroking the bridge of the nose? I read it somewhere and it really seems to work. Before I could only put DS down if he was already sound asleep.

London, Kyrria and Meeps, totally with you on the lack of sleep. DS has never ever slept for more than 3 hours. Mostly it's 2, and in the evenings and early mornings he averages about 1hour. By the time I'm sure he's asleep, then manage to fall asleep myself, it's time to wake up! I'm not sure how much longer I can cope. Today I had a new plan to sort everything out so I could sleep during his morning, after bath nap as its generally the longest but...^I couldn't sleep!!^ angry so I cried instead.

DS has woken and has this great new habit of going from sleeping like an angel to full on paddy in 1 second. Better go! More later.

cheesymonster Sat 08-Dec-12 06:41:15

Mickey that's ok I didn't think you were being nosey! - I do intend to have the counselling also smile

WantAnOrange Sat 08-Dec-12 06:50:09

Beccus Elpis is right about babies and 'bad habits'. If you just go with your babies cues you will find you have a 'securely attatched' (sorry to use jargon) baby. Which basically means that they trust you 100% therefore dont feel the need to cling and will be confident enough to move away from you and sleep on there own when they are developmentally ready. As for feeding, our babies know when they are hungry, we have to show them trust too.

Also, evidence shows that children who are sleep trained need to be re-trained after every big change in their life (staying in hospital, moving house, new sibling etc), whereas children who are encouraged to follow their own developmental route may take longer to sleep on their own in the first place but once they do, it's pretty much permanent.

Agree that London has good ideas because she is taking her cues from the baby.

DD has just filled her nappy quite spectacularly and then had a good laugh about it! Lovely.....

Squid I have gained weight since the birth! Quite a lot of weight I think, although I dont own any scales, but my waist appears to have vanished. Does anyone else just feel hungry all the time when BF?

Crazy, hope you're getting some rest now DS1's back at the CM. don't know how you cope with 2! Any news on DS's health issues? Must be very worrying, but a good sign that the doc doesn't seem too concerned. Hope it all works out.
No idea how to feed in a Moby, can barely manage to get DS in it properly. Seriously considering getting an Ergo.

Zara, well done on the flight! I shall be asking for tips before I go home in March. Your breast feeding post made me cry, and definitely made me appreciate things more. I really have nothing more to add as everyone, especially Bella, have said all so perfectly already. Thinking of you thanks
Oh, and no waxing so far. Am planning a bit of a tidy up this evening, but will probably end up falling asleep in the bath.

London, your smart phone antics are keeping me very amused. I love a good autocorrect fail! I second the BBC news app, Facebook and Mumsnet Talk. Got the Baby Connect one after October recommended it and am loving it so far.
Love Relax Melodies for white noise, too.
I'm also relieved to hear you still have a clitoris grin, gives me hope I might rediscover mine soon hopefully tonight
In answer to your Q, DS feeds for about 10 mins at a time, with an ocasional long one and does hundreds of about 5 poos a day, at least.

October, you really did get the short straw, doing this with a toddler too! Would love to hear your perspective as the observing partner last time when you get a chance - bet you feel differently now! grin Hope baby's ok after the sofa incident.

grin @ Botox baby Beccus!

Wooly, at this stage I'd take 4hrs as sleeping through...
Hope baby Wooly is ok, despite "failure to thrive" label. Really is a horrible term.

Livvy, I definitely find this baby lark a bit boring, and very repetitive. I was ok the last couple of weeks when I had visitors, but now I'm back to thinking up reasons to get out the house. DH is working this weekend, sad so don't even have that to break up the monotony.
Been treating poo stains with Oxy Clean Max Force spray. Works wonders. Not sure if it has the same name in the UK.

Congrats on the presentation Wantan! Sounds like you have a very supportive DH. (As he should be, of course wink)

Sorry about mastitis Midget, hope you feel better soon. Anyone know what measures we can take to avoid it? Or is it just one of those things? I live in fear...

Great to see you again Elpis! smile Really hope it wasn't anything I said that put you off - I think I did once say something like "someone more knowledgable, like Elpis, will be along soon to advise". I'm really sorry. Of course you don't need the extra pressure and responsibility, you certainly have enough to think about at home.
For what it's worth, I don't think you we're being at all neurotic about the abscess, I would have freaked!
Hope things work out with your DH's job.

Mickey, what a shit situation. Don't have any advice but I think making yourself and the situation known to the police is an excellent idea (sorry, can't remember who suggested). It's my understanding that people like your dad target people who are at vulnerable stages in their lives and not at their strongest. It sounds like both you and your mum have well and truly moved on, and are in strong, happy, confident places. He will not know how to deal with that at all, I should think. I'm really sorry you have to deal with all this when things were going so well for you.

So sorry about your job Plankton sad

All fine here, thanks Smorgs. I'm quite a bit further south. Some people did feel it here, but not me. I'm a bit earthquake immune. I think any mention of tsunami here now and people panic, understandably. (Is that a word? Looks weird.)

Big hugs Cheesy thanks

Really can't write any more, sorry to anyone I missed. Must actually get on and do something today. Was thinking about putting the Christmas tree up...

Thechick Sat 08-Dec-12 07:48:02

Hello, can I join? My little one was born 6 weeks early on the 7th October. He spent 16 days in the Scbu but that all feels like a lifetime ago. He started off ff and then emb was added to all feeds but since we've been at home we've sorted out bf and he's now ebf. I have low milk and am taking fenugreek and am weening off domperidone. LO is now 9wks tomorrow. Isn't smiling responsively just yet and isn't close to sleeping through the night. We had our jabs a couple of days ago and he seems fine, but was very sleepy for about 24 hrs. Well that's us. Looking forward to getting to know you all.

Londonmrss Sat 08-Dec-12 08:00:08

congrats on the giant catch up cherry!

welcome thechick! well done on bf. we had a difficult start too and are still settling into it.

Thanks London! Haven't even started on my news though...wink

Welcome Chick, sounds like you've had a stressful time so far, glad things are settling down now.

Woolybob Sat 08-Dec-12 09:00:13

Welcome chick sounds like you had a rocky road but glad thinks are better now, do you think the fenugreek helps? Am considering that myself.

Beccus sorry forgot to say earlier sorry about your centile loss, please don't worry - from speaking to ppl it is incredibly common and is most likely catch down growth. We are now down nearly 3 but bean still seems smiley, happy & healthy to me...

We have no such thing as nap time in our house, DD will sleep in arms, sling or pram but wakes instantly if put down. Having said that did sleep 15 min in crib yesterday so maybe there's hope. Keep thinking should be stricter and put her down more but on the other hand she looks so cute asleep against me in the sling plus I read somewhere babes that are carryed round for at least 3 hours cry less.

Settling at night is feeding to sleep or DH has a small rocking jiggling dance he's perfected. Keep trying to put bean down just before completely asleep but only managed this twice, otherwise she has to be totally gone. Having said that she now sleeps 5-6 hours her first nightime stretch so must be 'self settling' as part of sleep cycles?

Woolybob Sat 08-Dec-12 09:02:56

Oh and beccus I posted on here in the breast and bottle feeding section about the failure to thrive and got some good advice so worth doing that if you're worried

welcome chick!!
that was the most epic catch up ive ever seen cherry!!
three cheers for pippa :-) only woke us up twice again last night- hopefully the night before was just a blip wink

Honeycantthinkofanxmasnickname Sat 08-Dec-12 10:40:14

Hi chick. I had DS1 on 25th October and he was 7 weeks early so understand a bit of what you're experiencing. Just turned 6 weeks and still waiting for smiles and eye contact.

Smorgs Sat 08-Dec-12 10:45:52

Well after horrendous day yesterday I was on my knees and handed him over to dh for the night with instructions to bring him to me when he needed feeding. What does he do? Sleeps for 5 hours straight. Now why won't he do that for me?!

cheesy I read back my post to you yesterday and realised how unbelievably patronising I sounded. Im so sorry. You sound like you're doing all the right things - getting out and seeing people, help from docs etc hopefully things will start looking up soon.

Beccus Sat 08-Dec-12 11:45:16

thx woolybob, will check it out. thx, too, wantan- it's good to know there is evidenced based research out there- sometimes i do wonder whether i am just reading ppl's opinions. cherry, sorry to hear u r having a rough time with sleep - we have so much less patience when tired. hope.u get some more sleep soon x

cheesymonster Sat 08-Dec-12 11:48:49

Not patronising at all smorgs, good advice! My MIL is taking baby cheesy tomorrow morning for 3 hours so I'll have a break then. DH is on nights tonight but home at 8pm sunday for two days.

I hope you slept for 5 hours last night as well!

Beccus Sat 08-Dec-12 11:49:18

woolybob, my bean can sleep 5 hrs as well, so was also hoping there is some self settling happening during sleep. it is certainly not happening before sleep. smorgs, glad u finally got a rest

OctoberOctober Sat 08-Dec-12 12:57:32

Had mega lie in till 10.45 with dp looking after the kids this morning. Feel so much better for getting sleep catch up, I never seem to be able to do that during day when DS sleeps. Does anyone, or is it a myth thAt it is possible to sleep when baby does? Might be easier if there weren't a million other chores to do I suppose.

It is our 5yr wedding anniversary today (well civil partnership) and found out dp has lovely evening planned. Going for dinner and then comedy night and enlisted both sets of grandparents for divide and conquer babysitting. Ds1 going to my parents OVERNIGHT yay! Thankfully he is v robust and doesn't sit still for a moment do I don't think my dad will be able to sit on him winkDs2 staying here with mil coming over.
Here's to a lovely couples time, long overdue wine

elpis I don't think you overreacted about lo going to hospital at all. We've taken DS twice now in 7 weeks blush and both times I was a gibbering wreck, couldn't speak to the docs as I was crying too much. Would have lamped anyone who suggested I was too concerned about my baby angry

Angelico Sat 08-Dec-12 13:50:03

Quick wave and run smile Great 24 hours - got out last night for meal with friends and a few drinks, bean took her expressed bottle and DH took her so I slept from 01:30-09:00, then expressed another bottle this morning so I could go to writing workshop. So far all is peaceful...

Angelico Sat 08-Dec-12 13:50:37

October congrats on anniversary smile thanks

crazypaving Sat 08-Dec-12 14:01:18

marking place

congrats on your anniversary october! im off out tonight too grin now i have a question for you expressing ladies... pips is 3 weeks old tomorrow, have expressed 11oz of milk in total for DP to give her if she gets hungry- now i know all babies are different, but do you think that will be enough for 3/4 hours? how much were your babes eating then?

Zara1984 Sat 08-Dec-12 15:09:50

Hi chick! Congrats october! Thank you cherry smile

Marking place.

It's 4am here, just fed. Has anyone else here had baby flail around on bottle/boob during feeding? DS definitely wants the bottle and won't release his suction on it, but he grunts and wriggles like mad at times when he's sleepy.

Started bath-massage-bottle-cuddle-bed routine last night (much to DMIL's whingeing, she wants DS to be kept up so she can cuddle him while she watches TV... Even if he's overtired!). Knew it was going to take ages (esp as DS was tired as couldn't get him to nap after 3.30). Bath at 6pm, bottle at 6.30, took an hour to settle after he was in bed at 6.45. He eventually fell asleep on my shoulder and I transferred him to bed - he couldn't quite drop off in his basket. He then slept until 12.30!!!! And has done feeds then and at 3.30. Imagine he will wake up around 6.30.

He has not taken full bottles at 12.30 and 3.30 (even with me waking him to try encourage him to take more). Do you ladies find they do shorter boob feeds/smaller bottle feeds at night?

Ok back to sleep...

Am I had mum for using saline spray regularly in DS at night to try silence his snuffles?!

Will persevere with bedtime routine and see if it works (and gets faster to settle DS!)....

Zara1984 Sat 08-Dec-12 15:11:23

mickey when I was expressing would've found that just enough at that age.... Maybe express a wee bit more just in case??

Midgetm Sat 08-Dec-12 15:27:42

Marking my Place. Won't wee in the corner as yomping won't have time to clean it up now she has baby yomping to look after.grin

squidkid Sat 08-Dec-12 16:32:28

oh my - pages and pages to catch up on - yay for those of you going out tonight though - I am too - going to see PULP !!


Hope the baby behaves! Have had a marvellous saturday, managed my longest run yet, took boyfriend out for breakfast in town while parents watched jess, bought a christmas tree and carried it home through the city like the coolest kids in town, have been wrapping tidying and mooching and getting excited about the gig. Need to find something cute to wear... this will be my first proper night out!! I hope I don't cry, fall asleep or leak milk!

Smorgs Sat 08-Dec-12 17:08:29

Ahhh my cousin in Paris just had her twins 6 weeks early. Theyre all soing great apparently. She spent 15 years ttc grin

hufflepuffle Sat 08-Dec-12 17:13:25

I could actually cry at so many of you going out tonight...... sad envy blush

Silly Huffle

God, you all so much more together and chilled than me!!!!

Enjoy yourselves! That is brilliant!!!!!


Twobuttonsaway Sat 08-Dec-12 18:21:51

Hi all, I went out with school mums on thurs which was lovely and baby buttons slept through til I got home, even had a glass of wine with DH and a dance in our living room!!

DH is now in my less good books as he's buggered off to the pub leaving me to juggle bath and bed for 4 year old (who will want multiple stories) and overtired babe (who will want multiple boobs!).

zara bf at night def shorter, I assume because of good hormones and supply at night.

Must run now meltdown occurring. Hope everyone has a good night

smileyhappymummy Sat 08-Dec-12 19:32:21

october happy anniversary, it's our wedding anniversary too today, 11 years! We have a less exciting evening planned but still lovely - been to m+ s to buy yummy food that will be quick and easy to cook in between settling offspring! Hope you have a lovely evening and squid enjoy pulp, listened to them so much during university and sixth form,I am v jealous!

Honeycantthinkofanxmasnickname Sat 08-Dec-12 20:27:38

Help. LO is 6 weeks and had spent the past 4 hours screaming blue murder. Normally he calms when I pick him up but he keeps screaming tonight. The only thing that helps is sticking a boob in his mouth but he's eaten plenty so I don't think he's hungry. He had wind earlier but think we sorted that before the screamathon started. Maybe I'm being naive and have been lucky up till now but is it normal for the intense screaming to just keep going? Or should I be really worried.

smileyhappymummy Sat 08-Dec-12 20:49:23

honey good sign I think that boob in mouth is working to calm him, would worry more if he didn't want to feed, could it be 6 week growth spurt maybe? Hugs for you anyway, it's exhausting when they start on a mega screamathon.

Honeycantthinkofanxmasnickname Sat 08-Dec-12 21:18:48

DH just home from work, have him DS and DS is now dozing peacefully in daddy's arms. My child hates me.

LoopyLa Sat 08-Dec-12 21:24:21

Holy moly, I've been so busy with visitors that a whole new thread has been created...

Marking my spot just in case I actually get 5 minutes to catch up with everyone!!

Oooooh, new emoticons!! Love 'em! grin

smile wink grin

(Where's the childish emoticon???)

Londonmrss Sat 08-Dec-12 22:12:10

honey I have the same thing. the fact is that often mummy is not the best person to settle baby because of the milky smell and association with feeding. mine often gets really frustrated with me and I think it's because she's feeling like she should feed but she doesn't really want to, she actually wants to sleep or whatever. try not to take it personally. it feels like it, but it's not rejection.

Elpis Sat 08-Dec-12 22:59:45

MickeyTheShortOne 11oz should be ample. Even if he wants more you know he's not going to starve while you're away. smile

How did DD self-settle? It was very different first time round. She was sleeping on her own in a cot and I would feed her to sleep, put her down, go to bed and then get up to feed her when she cried, feed her to sleep, then put her back in the cot. Sometimes I resented her so much for dragging me out of bed. sad When I went back to work I couldn't hack the broken nights any more and started taking her into the spare bed to feed when she woke me up. Sometimes I'd wake up and return to the marital bed, sometimes I didn't. She gradually woke less often until she was sleeping through, though I can't remember exactly when that was - around 9 months?

Now DS and I are co-sleeping, I put him in the cot next to the bed while DD has her bedtime story and a bit of milk. He generally falls asleep. She goes off to bed, I tuck her in, and when DS wakes and starts looking hungry I feed him to sleep. He's going for longer between night feeds now. As he gets older and more active I'll start putting him in the cot more often. But I do love snuggling up with him. smile

Honeycantthinkofanxmasnickname Sat 08-Dec-12 23:24:33

Oh, hasn't thought of that london thanks for the tip!

bella2012 Sat 08-Dec-12 23:32:33

ah huffle don't feel like that. I am still a million miles away from a night out too. Having said that, I am going to a party tomorrow but it starts at 2pm and the birthday girl is 3! It will happen for you though, you just wait! Soon you will have much more freedom. I keep reminding myself of how much I used to do and enjoy when I just had DS1. You are doing a bloody brilliant job, especially with all the bf crap you have to cope with so don't be hard on yourself.

I am a little jealous of all of you having nights out you lucky things! But not as jealous as I am of my husband though who is at our friends wedding in oxford with all our friends. Free bar all day...6 course meal...swing band...dancing... Jealous? Moi? Noooooo! Ha ha! To be honest, I feel aghast that he is able to exist outside of our home and family as it has been so long since i have done anything other than survive, feed and entertain my boys that I can not imagine having an hour out to socialise let alone a whole weekend. And if I was away, I would miss them horribly! I feel so frustrated that I am longing for something that I wouldn't want if I had it! I guess that ugly as it is, I feel resentful that he is able to enjoy parenthood and have a life too, whereas my life is totally and utterly consumed with it all to the point where I class having done a pile of ironing in a day as an achievement. I know it won't be like this forever and there is soooooo much about this period that I love, but sometimes it is hard to enjoy it when you feel you are the only one. I wish I had more generosity of spirit not to feel envious of him, because God knows he deserves a happy weekend after all the job stress. Must try harder!

Thank you for such lovely words cherry and well done on epic catch up! Looking forward to hearing your news!

Happy anniversary smiley and october!

Nothing from yomping for a while-hope you are OK hun??

Lisbeth thanks for the new thread!

Beeblebear Sun 09-Dec-12 04:13:46

Marking place.

May be mia for a while. Missed about 3 days of posts already.

Sil is in from australia, and my other sil just had a baby girl on friday so i hope to go visit her too soon.

Hope you all are well and managing some sleep.

Dh and i went out for a date night last week while grandparents babysat. Monday i am taking a card making class while sil babysits. Nice to be able to pump for some feeds.

Catch up again in a few weeks. Will try and read when i can and post anything urgent, sorry of i dont reply to you all.


Zara1984 Sun 09-Dec-12 06:46:45

Sigh. DS just had another 3 hour long screamathon. Late afternoon. Third time this week. Fuck. Absolutely nothing would console him. It's colic, isn't it?? Arrrgh. Fuck fuck fuck. Thank god I brought lots of Infacol with me as a precaution, will start it with every feed now.

Baby collapsed asleep in FIL's arms in the end. Amusingly FIL was convinced we had to take DS to the doctor because apparently there must be something seriously wrong with the baby for him to cry like this. "But it's so hard on us!!" he exclaimed. Oh, how MIL and I laughed...

Beccus Sun 09-Dec-12 07:01:10

thx elpis, am v. impressed ds will stay in cot while dd has story and milk. my dd would have a melt down! hope u guys enjoyed your nights out- i can do daytime socoalising but am too tired come the evening

Twobuttonsaway Sun 09-Dec-12 08:03:28

Morning all, Beccus you wanted to know about self settling experience so here goes.

Start with feeding to sleep or walking snd rocking post feed and putting down in Moses basket asleep, I tried hard not to get into the habit of him sleeping on me a lot but did this as necessary! As he got a bit older, around 6 weeks or so, he would stop feeding and have his eyes open, if he looked contented and not windy I would quickly put him down, swaddle, kiss goodnight, leave the room and switch off the light (which was already dim in preparation). If he cried I would go back, try to shush to sleep, then cuddle, then feed as necessary and repeat the process - didn't try any of these steps for ages, just read his cues, no point trying if agitated! He gradually got better and then expected this process which followed bath time every night religiously. Some days were better than others obviously.

Now following same process with DS2, once light is off he often mutters a bit and cries out occasionally but I wait (behind the door) and often he settles down.

Should add I have never found the daytime settling as easy as there is too much distraction - seems to work in the morning when no over tired but afternoon naps tend to be in pram or carrier!

Sorry this is long, but hope its helpful.

Hope you all have a nice Sunday - village Christmas fair and roast chicken for us - .yum smile

WantAnOrange Sun 09-Dec-12 08:50:05

Mickey when DD would breifly accept her bottle she was taking around 2-3oz each feed.

thanks everyone. i really enjoyed my evening i was only out for 3 and a half hours grin but had a really nice time just having normal adult conversation, that didnt involve the tales of breastfeeding, sleep patterns, nappies.. etc. i had two (yes, TWO!!) very large glasses of wine -- (which DP thanked the lord for as he got a good blow job when he came to bed ha ha ha)--
i didn't realise how much i am missing sex... i originally said DP wasnt coming anywhere near me for a year... now i can't wait to have him!!

sorry everyone TMI. i think i have a hangover lightweight and god, my boobs are fecking uncomfortable!

Lizzietow Sun 09-Dec-12 10:26:17

Just marking spot!! I do read posts every day but not posted in a while. Had some difficulty with colic here, and getting totally confused with which remedies to try or whether its reflux- argh!!

WantAnOrange Sun 09-Dec-12 11:22:22

Arty is driving me insane today. She is un-put-down-able, wont stop crying. I'm waiting for DS to get home so we can go out.

Beccus Sun 09-Dec-12 12:43:03

thx twobuttons, for taking the time to share that. i managed to get her in her cot without a meltdown this morning, which is progress, but she wont drop off in it. will.keep trying :-) wantan, feel your pain, that was us yesterday. horrible! go mickey, u boozy hornbag!! jealous of your normal life activities....i think i am ready for sex, too :-)

Londonmrss Sun 09-Dec-12 12:47:59

isanyone doing tummy time? what are you meant to do?

Beccus Sun 09-Dec-12 15:49:08

when i remember, london. i just pop her on her tummy on her playgym so she is encouraged to look up at her toys. i closely supervise in case of breathing probs and only do it when she is well rested and in a good mood as it is hard work. hv said any firmish surface will do, eg.firm mattress, but padded change mat too soft.

bella2012 Sun 09-Dec-12 17:10:14

massive rant needed then I promise to cheer up and start cheering on other people instead of being a winer.

So...dh has been away since 1pm Friday and was expected back to come with me to a kids bday party at 2pm. Clearly three days away was not enough and he is still not back. So I took them both on my own, he has the car so I walked with ds2 is the sling for the first time. V. Proud of myself. Would have been fine but this party was MASSIVe, like 30+ kids with an entertainer lady who led the kids through all kinds of storytelling activities which all required adult assistance, pulling them on bits of cloth, lifting them over stuff etc. How the hell was I supposed to do that AND breastfeed ds2? As if poor little ds1 wasn't let down enough, he was one of the only ones without a teddy bear because we hadn't been told we had to bring one. Then, to top it all off, ds1 had a huge nose bleed in the middle of the dance floor, just as I was getting a screaming ds2 in the sling. Stop the world and let me off!

Thank God for total strangers helping me out. That is one of the great things about being a Mum-we are all part of this huge team who all know the craic.

So quite frankly I feel like screaming at my nobber of a dh when he finally gets home!

And breathe!

YompingJo Sun 09-Dec-12 17:16:53

I put her on her tummy, she looks puzzled, lifts her head for a bit then gets cross so I pick her up. It's not very advanced here!

Still not feeling great. Good nights, bad nights. On the bad nights (like last night, 2.5 hrs from start of 2am feed until she was finally asleep again), I feel my temper rising and it makes me cry because I feel a need to throw things or slam my hand into things to get rid of the pent up aggression, and it scares me so much. Seeing doctor on Tuesday to talk about this.

Feeding also not great still. I latch her on but she loses the good latch very quickly. She wants to suck when she needs to poo, a dummy or finger just gets her more agitated, but it's painful if she sucks on my boob as she's not caring about her latch, just about wriggling around to poo, which she seems to be finding hard and some days (like today), most of her waking hours seem to be spent trying to pass wind or poo (and failing). She's not constipated, there are plenty of wet nappies. The non-nutritive sucking at the end of a feed is painful too as she doesn't keep her mouth open wide enough so she ends up licking my nipple for ages and it gets sore, but I have the choice of keep trying to correct, which is almost impossible when she is sleepy, or put up with it, or take her off, but then she won't settle. So feeding also makes me cross or teary.

Not having great day. Was meant to be meeting up with nct group for lunch but DH working and I would be the only one there on my own without my DH. Would feel awkward and sad so gave it a miss but feel like that was rubbish of me.

Also seen to be plagued with doubts about whether I am doing things right. Should I wake her up to change her, I read to change every 2.5 hrs but what if she's asleep? She needs to sleep otherwise she gets overtired and is very cross in the evenings, but if I don't wake her will she get nappy rash and be in pain? Is it bad that I put her in bouncy chair today so I could have breakfast in peace? Is it bad that I am swaddling her and putting her in bedside cot at the moment instead of in bed with me, because I need sleep and co-sleeping with her means she and I both wake up more often? I'm putting my needs before hers there, I shouldn't be doing that, plus I've read that ebf newborns need to wake up more frequently, so what if swaddling her means she won't wake up when she needs to? She's been asleep in the sling for 4 hrs, should I wake her up and interact with her? She won't settle to sleep in anything other than a sling in the daytime, have I worn her too much and now she hates sleeping in her carrycot? What if I can't wear her in the sling one day and she won't sleep at all? The doubt and guilt I'm starting to feel about almost everything is making me feel pretty wobbly sad.

I'm glad people are going out of an evening, happy anniversaries to you guys. I feel a long way off that yet. Don't want to introduce bottles of expressed until bf sorted, and feels like that will never happen and that the latch issue will always be there. Maybe she would be fine with a bottle sometimes and it wouldn't make her latch any worse but I feel like I have let her develop a bad latch habit and giving her a bottle may only confuse the issue further. Also, over supply is such an issue for us that I'm frightened to express extra for a bottle in case body thinks it needs to make even more milk can't imagine that is actually possible

Really sorry, I always drag the mood down. Just feel like I could sit and cry for days. It is ask so hard. I will do anything to make all this easier but it is all out of my control and that is so hard to accept and deal with.

bella2012 Sun 09-Dec-12 17:47:24

oh yomping you poor thing. I know it is hard when you desperately want to do the 'right thing'. With ds1 I can remember trying to keep a note of the slightly differing ways of doing things advised by the different midwives so that I could do it the right way when each of them came in. It is my view that within reason there is no right way. Everyone finds their own path and some things work and some things don't. Sometimes we get it wrong, but it isn't the end of the world. As you say, you can't control it and that is the hardest thing to deal with. My advice would be to stop trying to adhere to' the rules'. Certainly don't change nappies by a schedule or things like that. My little ds gets his done as and when I have time, he often has to wait for things and while i love him just as fiercely, he often doesn't get the sort of attentive care I gave ds1, I simply do not have time to analyse what we do and when and I know he isn't suffering for it. I know it impossible to relax in the same way with your first, I used to do all kinds of things like waking baby up to feed after a certain time on the advice of some professional or another which I certainly wouldn't do now. Dont beat yourslef up about considering your own needs sometimes too-t is totally fine not to co-sleep and if it gives you a better night then by all means do it. If I were you I would think about what advice you would give a friend if they were in your shoes. I bet you would tell her that she is doing an amazing job and that she doesn't need to worry.

squidkid Sun 09-Dec-12 17:53:35


Should I wake her up to change her, I read to change every 2.5 hrs but what if she's asleep? She needs to sleep otherwise she gets overtired and is very cross in the evenings, but if I don't wake her will she get nappy rash and be in pain?

I try and change Jess just before bed, and then she sleeps 10+ hours! Modern nappies are super-absorbent and she shouldn't get nappy rash. Obviously if you are having issues with nappy rash you'd have to consider changing more often, but otherwise... take the sleep, dude!

Is it bad that I put her in bouncy chair today so I could have breakfast in peace?

Bouncy chair has fun dangly toys to look at and learn to reach for, and you get to eat! Brilliant plan, I do the same thing to eat lunch most days.

Is it bad that I am swaddling her and putting her in bedside cot at the moment instead of in bed with me, because I need sleep and co-sleeping with her means she and I both wake up more often? I'm putting my needs before hers there, I shouldn't be doing that, plus I've read that ebf newborns need to wake up more frequently, so what if swaddling her means she won't wake up when she needs to?

I liked the idea of co-sleeping but we only do it from 5am onwards now because baby is in the basket before then. Works well for us, I sleep better too. Many people would say it is BETTER to sleep a baby in the bedside cot, so not sure how you are putting your needs first there? Also not sure how well you're serving her needs when utterly sleepdeprived, you are probably a happier more attentive mum if you've slept, so I think whatever works at this stage! I'm still ebf baby squid and the sleep monster goes 8pm-5am! She catches up in the day. She will wake when she needs to.

She's been asleep in the sling for 4 hrs, should I wake her up and interact with her?

I would take the rest.

She won't settle to sleep in anything other than a sling in the daytime, have I worn her too much and now she hates sleeping in her carrycot?

My baby wouldn't sleep except in my arms/sling initially and then she just changed her mind one day and now sleeps in a basket. I personally think this teaching bad habits thing is a load of rubbish and babies just develop at different stages. In some cultures, they keep babies in slings till they're about 4 years old! No harm done.

What if I can't wear her in the sling one day and she won't sleep at all?

She will.

The doubt and guilt I'm starting to feel about almost everything is making me feel pretty wobbly.

Yeah, you sound like you're about to crumble. Maybe more sleep/rest would help with that some, so it seems like you are doing all the RIGHT things to try and get some of that, despite your doubts. You are obviously a super over-achiever who does ace at everything, and reading your recent posts (not downers, understandable things most of us new mums feel) makes me think you are just... overthinking everything and maybe have read too much about it all? (bet you hear that a lot, right!) I'm no expert and brand new at this, but babies are not textbooks... all babies are different and all mums are too and the things that will work for both of you will vary enormously. It sounds like you are discovering things that work, but then undermining yourself by being unsure if they're "right". But if they're not abusive or stupid, there is no "right" way. I think modern mums are more isolated from extended family than previously and we do doubt ourselves more and try and learn from things like books written by nobbers for cash. Maybe we need to put the books down and trust our instincts more - I mean people brought up babies since the beginning of time without instruction. I know you recently spoke about how shit your dad was and it's pretty understandable you would feel a bit direction-less...

I think the line about your needs vs her needs is a bit unhelpful - do you think you could try and think about things in terms of BOTH of your needs? You're a team, not opponents, right?

I think you are doing brilliantly and Alice is going to love her mum very much.

Forgive the length of this.

squidkid Sun 09-Dec-12 17:56:41

Huge hugs bella - by the way who said we are not allowed hugs here? BEAR HUG. Sounds like you did masterfully at that party!!

squidkid Sun 09-Dec-12 18:02:40

I had a strange old time at the Pulp gig - got a text from my mum when just getting on the tram at 7.30pm to say Jess was sound asleep already and had settled herself no problem, so that was awesome - she didn't even have any of the expressed milk, I gave her a big feed before we left. Pulp were incredible and the atmosphere at the gig was amazing and I totally enjoyed the first half of the (long) set. Then I started getting a bit anxious about jess (for no reason at all) and we skipped the encore to make sure we got home for midnight.

She was asleep, of course. No harm done.

Everyone on the tram was slaughtered and I felt very alien and old. I meant to drink at the gig but the queues were enormous and it was only shit overpriced lager so I thought why bother. I felt a bit like an institutionalised prisoner staring wide-eyed at normal life!

So I had a good time but it's obviously going to take a little while to adjust back to "normal" life - not sure it's ever going to be like before obviously, but baby steps!

Londonmrss Sun 09-Dec-12 18:02:46

Christ I don't change to a schedule. sometimes I hear her do a loud poo but for change it till she gets grumpy... sometimes she seems happy to sit in a bag of poo for a while (bad mummy emoticon)
she doesn't have a speck of nappy rash though, in my defense.

squidkid Sun 09-Dec-12 18:10:39

Two questions for everyone:

1. people who felt traumatised or bad about their births - are you feeling any better now?
I have felt a lot better the last month. I think anyone who gives birth in any way at all is an absolute hero and I sometimes watch old episodes of One Born Every MInute and cry at every birth and I bought jess a personalised sleepsuit saying "Born in ---"[area I live in] to try and be proud of myself!

2. What are people doing for Christmas?
We have decided to have it just the three of us and then my whole family (8 adults, 6 kids aged 8, 5, 2 and 2 babies) are coming on the 28th and apparently I have offered to cook for everyone - I am such a mentalist.
On xmas day I'm just going to cook something simple and drink champagne with boyfriend and try and make jess sleep so we can have drunken sex. Would it be bad to express enough milk so I can get proper drunk and drunkenly feed her expressed milk? bad mum


cheesymonster Sun 09-Dec-12 18:10:54

yomping I'm sorry you're feeling so bad. Don't be too hard on yourself. Good luck at the doctors.

hufflepuffle Sun 09-Dec-12 18:16:27

Och Yomping you are having a hard time. I agree with Bella. Try not to think too much about rules. Certainly as far as nappies go I change when needed or if he has had big sleep, whenever up. And no rash yet. Even on the long 7 hr+ sleeps, if not wakened I do not wake him to either eat or change. And he is showing no signs of detriment.

Regarding latch. Lady I saw two weeks ago on hospital when I was at end of tether (again) said they will learn a way to do it and get in to bad habit if you do not teach them again. DS had mouth too small and I could not get him to open. She showed me how to and said even if you hav to take off and relatch 10 times in row, do it. Took me probably a week to re teach him and it has made a significant difference to both how I feel but also how he feeds, he is much more efficient as he can get more per suck!

Perhaps that might help you to encourage her? Is her mouth open wide enough? On utube look up 'asymmetrical latch' if this is a problem.

You are doing great, hopefully somewhere inside you can tell yourself that. I am having a good week, powered however by a more content baby and better sleep. This is hard work, even more so when feeling crap. Very glad you are seeing GP on Tuesday.

Please please take care. Try and slow down, forget about the rules and what everyone else doing. Follow DDs lead and I am sure things will look brighter soon.

Sorry if I sound annoying. As I say, few good days, but they do help and you will have more of them.

X x x

bella2012 Sun 09-Dec-12 18:26:40

cracking reply there squid, well done. I hope that has helped you a bit yomping.

Glad you enjoyed pulp squid and I so so understand the strange anxious feeling you get when you are away from them sometimes. V. Jealous of your christmas plans! Sounds awesome-def get on the champers!!

hufflepuffle Sun 09-Dec-12 19:00:20

Well said Squid . Glad you got out and had a great time! Bella sorry you had such a shite time! As ever, toddler plus baby...... How????? Bloody wonderful mummy xx

Elpis thanks for feeding cue tips the other day. Hav def been more aware since but often I hav just not the total attention to know before the wailing starts! But getting better!

Beccus Sun 09-Dec-12 19:14:02

oh yomping :-( hugs, hugs and more illegal hugs for u. i'm so pleased u r seeing gp- please mention the guilt and self doubt as well as the anxiety and anger u feel. it's just not like u to be saying things like your posts r always negative. u r very supportive of others and post things like hospital bag lists that u kindly share with us and start new threads off.

changing- i do before any activity that i am hopeful will make her sleep, ie. feeding, sling or pram...or if i hear/smell something offensive.

waking to interact- would not wake her to change/interact- as u say, they need their sleep. i would only wake to feed.

swaddling- would be less concerned about needing to be able to wake up easily- important for newborns who need regular feeding, but alice must be at least 7 weeks, so more robust and bigger tummy than new born.

doing what u can so u can get some sleep is fine. none of us can do the best by our babies if we r sleep deprived.

latching- same here- goes to pot the longer she is feeding and the more tired she gets...no point taking her off as she is too drowsy to relatch...i dont find it that uncomfortable so i put up with it in an effort to try and tank her up so she will sleep longer.

squid, yes, far less traumatised by birth...have told (bored) anyone and everyone who will listen about it.
bella, that party sounds awful. i hope your dh comes home with a bunch of flowers or does something special for u....i knew what u meant in your other post about wanting to go.but at the same time knowing u.couldnt hack it.

is anyone else struggling to concentrate? i really struggle to pay attention to what ppl r saying/movies...

hufflepuffle Sun 09-Dec-12 20:03:44


This link is v helpful for anyone losing latch. Obviously if this is not a discomfort for you, no worries, but as the owner of cracked nipples it is a worry for me!!

The part 3. of first answer to the posters question is the instruction I was given at hospital recently. Instead of 'sandwich' though, keep boob firm, use thumb in line with nose, outside areola to make nipple push up higher. Baby then has to stretch to get nipple and this makes mouth much wider. Quickly attach baby to boob when widest and chin and lower lip touching lower side.

This made big difference to me. Am sure u are all totally way better at 6-10 weeks anyhow!!!!!!!!!!!

Orenishii Sun 09-Dec-12 20:06:52

Hi all smile

Dipping in and out while I can...so very, very impressed with all of you going out of an evening. Ummm...how??

I remain singularly unable to decide about little Squincy with regards to sleep. I tend towards a feed on demand approach and find it psychologically easier to stay up until his 12/12.30/1am feed than be woken up. So he tends to stay downstairs with us, snoozing in my arms, on the seat next to me or in the basket and I feed/change/wind as needed. Then I take him up to bed with at 12am for the "last" feed of the night....sometimes he sleeps through to 5.30/6am, sometimes even 8.30! Other times he wakes up at 3 or 4 and then again at 8 ish so TBH, I can totally cope with this sleeping and we have a sort of routine in terms of bath/massage/feed/story.

It's bfing I find hard - it's relentless. Sometimes, in my worst moments, when DH has him and Squincy is shouting and angry and DH hands him to me saying "He's hungry, he wants to eat" - I confess I think it's just because it's easier for DH to default to that, that it's easier to hand him to me to stick on my breast than go through the array of other things it might be. I also CANNOT get comfortable and just hunch over him - not good!

Post baby body - too depressing for words. I went shopping for jeans yesterday because pre-Squincy jeans don't fit and maternity jeans fall down. God jeans shopping was traumatic enough before! Luckily DH is a personal trainer and specialises in rehabilitation of form, and my body is a complete wreck now...I used to do fucking parkour before, for god's sake! Now I struggle to stand up from a sitting position sad

I have vague hopes this baby led approach will work out eventually because I just panic when I read some of the posts from you lovely ladies, you sound so accomplished with long sleeps and routines and things!

OctoberOctober Sun 09-Dec-12 20:20:35

yomping as someone else said, try not to worry too much and go with your instinct on some things. I found that I was taking so much conflicting advice that I dodn't know what I was doing or even trying to achieve by over researching everything and I was driving myself mad.

smiley hope you had a good anniversary too! It was lovely just having some time with me and dp out of the house. And even better to get some time in the bedroom grin

DS actually had his first night in his cot in his room rather than Moses basket in our room. Not planned, mil put him to sleep in there and then it seemed pointless to wake him when we got back - and he slept the longest ever til 5.30! We also had more restful time without him thrashing about and snuffling. Now not sure whether to put him in there from now on, not really mentally prepared for him 'leaving us' but it worked well for all of us last night. Anyone else moved them into own rooms?

Orenishii Sun 09-Dec-12 20:30:09

Yomping if it helps...an analogy with regards to putting your needs before baby yomping: there's a reason on planes the instructions for the oxygen masks are for parents to put them on themselves first and then tend to their children. How are they supposed to care for their children and ensure their survival if they have just passed out from lack of oxygen?

Believe me - I am very baby led. Very, very "babies know all sorts of stuff", very attachment theory in my approach. Squincy and I are symbiotic at the moment, and I would never ever judge another parent but the CIO/controlled crying etc etc approach is something I would never do...but even I believe and understand that Squincy needs me to be healthy to care for him, to continue to produce milk for him, to make the right decisions for him. And all of those things - all the things that ensure his needs are met - require me to my needs first: eat well, sleep as well as I can, get my stress levels down my relaxing when I can.

It's just logic - it's not said just to make you feel better smile I have my doubts about my parenting, many moments of a drop in confidence, many tears shed but this I do not doubt smile So please, believe and know your baby needs you to be healthy too so it's not a case of you not meeting her needs - you are doing so as part of a whole when you look after yourself first.

Orenishii Sun 09-Dec-12 20:40:21

people who felt traumatised or bad about their births - are you feeling any better now?

Not, not really sad The tears have stopped but the disappointment still bites. People look at me like I am nuts when I say I am jealous of women who got to experience pushing their baby out but I spent nine months thinking about that moment and to not get it...hurts. I hypnobirthed for 12 hours through contractions that started at 2 mins apart, and only begged for an epidural when he turned back to back and I wasn't allowed in the pool because I'd been induced. But despite all that I still have a complete lack of confidence in myself for next time - I still didn't push him out. It ended in a spinal and forceps and I might have got him as far as the birth canal but it's not enough, not to me sad

So no, not really over it. It surprises me how much it hurts me. I was only thinking this evening I didn't get to hold him in all his just-born gooey loveliness and it made me so sad.

Twobuttonsaway Sun 09-Dec-12 20:53:03

yomping there is lots of good advice in here for you, I would just like to pass on a comment a midwife made to me, she said follow your instincts as from the first hour after birth, no-one else we know your baby better than you. Trust yourself, as others have said you are doing a great job and babies are hard work even without sleep deprivation.smile

october while I wouldn't admit it on other threads for fear of bring lambasted by MNetters, we moved DS1 and DS2 out into the nursery at 7 weeks. They definitely sleep better and so do we. Moses basket is in cot bed to help familiarisation given he will soon grow out of the basket. It's also warmer and cosier than our bedroom which I think helps. Downside is I have to get out of bed to feed, but I find sitting feeding in a chair better on my back anyway.

All that said, suspect I am in the minority because of SIDS recommendations, but we are a non smoking home and he goes down on his back swaddled in cellular blankets to avoid over heating.

Hopefully no one will shout at me wink

Twobuttonsaway Sun 09-Dec-12 21:06:11

squid I think the second time birth is much less emotionally traumatic because you are an "intelligent client"! With DS1 I had no drugs 2 hours of pushing and still ended up with an emergency section. With DS2 was 10cm in 2 hrs and ready to push in car! My instincts made me insist on an epidural even though Midwife said on point, I was right placenta issues meant I would have had to have one anyway.

Ultimately, I think you gradually accept your experience. The most important thing is healthy baby!

Christmas despite us having brand new babe, my dad and his wife, and brother and wife and child have all invited themselves to us shock. At least they are not staying over! Can't turn them away as it will be first family Xmas since my mum passed away 13 years ago! Am sure it will be fun, but a bit of me wishes it was just the 4 of us. Hey ho .

OctoberOctober Sun 09-Dec-12 21:40:05

oreniishi had to google parkour, wow, looks pretty hardcore! I am also unimpressed with my post pregnancy body, saggy tummy particularly unappealing.

Orenishii Sun 09-Dec-12 21:57:15

I wouldn't have said I was any good - not exactly graceful, like - but I did it!

willowtreee Sun 09-Dec-12 23:17:40

yomping excellent advice there from squid i'm sure it's no coincidence that all your worries are all borne from wanting to be the best mum you can possibly be to Alice, surely thats the sign of an already fantastic mum. Sometimes you just need to take a step back to realise that, that's why this thread's such an amazing place to be, others can give you that objective view that's so hard to see when you are so emotionally inv

willowtreee Sun 09-Dec-12 23:19:02

Darned phone
Involved. Fwiw even though i don't post often i have learnt so much more from you guys than i ever have in a book

Bella, that sounds like hard work but seems like you handled it really well. Did your DH let you know he wasn't going to be back? Either way, still not fair.
Oh, and don't get excited about my news- I don't really have any, just teasing. wink

Yomping, I wish I knew what to say to make you feel better. sad Others have said some really great things, especially that you're a team, not opponents. (*Squid*) and forget the rules/books . The couple of hours I spent, a few weeks ago, trying to follow the Baby Whisperer made me feel more inadequate than I ever have as a parent so far. confused
And , in my very inexperienced view, don't wake baby for interaction/playtime etc. - it'll end in tears. DS hates being wakened, and "activity" time only works when he's awake, calm, fed, in a good mood. so not very often
Hope all goes well at the docs, it's great that you're getting help.

Gotta go, our activity time is apparently over...hmm

Arrgh! DS doing marathon feed, can't get off the sofa! I've not even had a shower yet, and there's tea stewing in the pot.

But I can't really complain because last night he did 2 stretches of about 3.5hrs sleep, with minimum settling in between!!! And I was in bed, asleep for most of it because DH did the evening duties and I forced myself into an early night (I'm usually a night owl). It's a miracle! I feel like a new woman. grin

It was about time really as I had a bit of a meltdown yesterday due to severe lack of sleep, no life, feeling like a crap mum and wife, loneliness etc etc.

I too actually nearly shed a envy tear over everyone's nights out Huffle. My main problem is I have no where really to go - 3 of my closest friends left Japan this year, a couple of other friends are always working (the Japanese way) and live miles away. Absolutely no mummy friends whatsoever. sad I was supposed to go to a foreign mothers group on Saturday but its really far away and starts at 10am so involves an early start. We had a very bad night the night before, so I just couldn't get up and out on time and had to give a miss. It's the second time that's happened. They only meet once a month. I might get there before he starts school!

Had a great time with my friends, was really nice to have someone to hold the bags some company when out and about. These are really close friends, known for years, lived together, maid of honour etc. so can relax and don't have to clean up or make polite conversation and stuff. We went out for several meals and DS was great, slept through all. I think it's made me all the more homesick though.

Then parents came, which was nice. Mum was less hard work than I expected (long story) and both helped out with baby and house work. Didn't get out as much with them as mum doesn't walk well.
Still, was very relieved when everyone left. Bit quiet and lonely now though. Can't win...

Ooh he's finally stopped feeding, off to grab a tea.

OctoberOctober Mon 10-Dec-12 03:21:40

cherry I hope you do make it to the group, it is really helpful meeting other people who are going through similar. My second time round NCT group have been bit rubbish at meeting up bit I always find it good when we do manage esp to hear how everyone is dealing with 2.

OctoberOctober Mon 10-Dec-12 03:24:05

bella well done getting through the party, I hope you gave dp what for about not letting you know he would miss the party.

Londonmrss Mon 10-Dec-12 05:57:01

I'm quite jealous of all your socialising. I don't know any new mums, not a single one in real life. I haven't managed to get out to any of those baby yoga type things yet as I wanted to feel like I knew a bit more what I was doing first. Plus none of my friends are doing this yet. I haven't had time to feel lonely but I suppose I should start making an effort after Xmas. just feels a bit like schedule is already full with looking after a baby.

hufflepuffle Mon 10-Dec-12 06:41:59

I too hav not had any interaction with other mums. I get quite teary when out as so often mums with prams come in twos..... I am rubbish at making friends and feel v intimidated by new social environments. Sure the bloody yoga class made me cry on first 2 weeks cos I thought no one liked me!! Blamed that on preg hormones......

Must must must make effort after Christmas. My yoga class has a baby massage one and there are def mother and toddler groups I should go to- feel ill at thought of those. Silly silly huffle. Should be glad to hav the opportunity.

Zara1984 Mon 10-Dec-12 06:59:12

Yes yes to not knowing many mum friends. Am really going to make the effort here in NZ (for temporary mum pals) and when I get back to Ireland. Lesson to all of us for the future - be extra inclusive and reach out when we see teary lonely new mums.

Ok so after colicky screamathon last night I have given Tom some Infacol before every feed. Violent burps and farts but they are over with faster.

No screaming tonight.... Got him down half an hour ago after bath-massage-quiet cuddles-bottle (and Twinkle Twinkle x infinity at drone pitch). Remembered what one of you ladies said about leaving the room before baby fell asleep and he seemed to settle better with me not there. Took about an hour in total from bath to me leaving the room.

Fingers, toes and fanny crossed he stays asleep!!! Have got the baby monitor stuck to my ear for every squeak and am trying to enjoy a glass of sparkling sav blanc (Kim Crawford, think you can buy in the UK, it's lovely!!)... Hopefully he carats asleep till his midnight-ish feed (ie 4 hours).

Bought some swaddling muslins as its hot here - 26 degrees in his bedroom!! Not sure what to do except put him in a vest only and light cotton blanket or muslin?!

DMIL's friend is coming over tomorrow with her toddler granddaughter to see Tom. Bracing myself for polite grimaces because she's told DMIL I'm "spoiling" babba with night feeds because he's not sleeping through the night yet. She let her twins cry it out at 10 DAYS OLD so she could get 8 hours sleep. She proudly said they gave up after 2 nights... shock Hard not to hoik my judgey pants.... She's quite stroppy so I know I'm in for a barrage of "advice".

hufflepuffle Mon 10-Dec-12 07:13:43

Good going on the sleeping Zara and try not to bite your tongue off tomorrow!!! Enjoy your lovely vino!! X

Thechick Mon 10-Dec-12 07:25:21

Thanks for all the welcomes, really appreciate it.

I'm sorry about not name checking, I will do better next time.

My LO has tummy time. I try and put him on his tummy a couple of times a day and he seems to like it. Some days he'll just lie there and stare other days he brings his legs up like he's trying to crawl. He can lift his head for a bit, but its mostly looking from one side to another. Not sure how normal this is. As he was 6 weeks early, he's kind of in the middle of his actual and adjusted age. I don't like the whole adjusted thing anyway, he was 9 weeks yesterday, 3 weeks adjusted.

Im very jealous of you guys getting long stretches of sleep. Every night I hope this will be the night he sleeps longer than one or two hours, and i cant sleep during the day. I know it will happen one day, hopefully.

I felt very traumatised just after the birth, he was 6 weeks early and 36 hours before he was born I was told my cervix was shut and I was definitely not having a baby (but they did give me steroid injections 'just in case'). I was in denial until I was in established labour. I hadn't finished my handover at work. Had hardly bought anything, hadn't even packed a hospital bag. I got to 9 cm without any pain relief (not intentionally) and then had gas and air. He was with us for the first day but then was in the Scbu for 16 days. I think writing it down helped. But I'm fine with it all now. The birth itself I look at positively. I had my vbac and I don't remember the pain at all. This is my second child, ds1 is 13. I think I had more realistic expectations this time about the unpredictability of childbirth and I really do think I would have been fine with an emcs too.

Christmas, I'm not sure what we are doing. My dsis works in a bar and she's working there Christmas day and they do food so might go there. My parents live not too far but I would rather have it at my house but I don't want to cook or do the clearing up after.

We haven't really done the mother and baby groups. I was waiting for his jabs, which happened last week. Will find some after Christmas. I have my name down for an nct tea group but that's starting in the new year.

I made a pear crumble yesterday. Is it wrong to have for breakfast?

Sorry about the epic post, they all won't be like this, off to iron ds1's school shirts. Fun fun fun.

grin @ "fanny crossed" Zara, good luck! And that woman sounds awful, hope you've practiced your nod-and-smile.

Sounds like we're a right bunch of billy-no-mummy-mates! It'd be great if we could meet in real life. Wish I could go to baby yoga or massage Huffle, I can't find anything like that here.

Anyway, i started expressing this week and its going well so far (thanks to some great advice from Huffle grin). So I'm well and truly prepared for when my social life takes off hmm
I seem to be getting about 100ml from one side in 10 mins every morning, is this ok? I'm only doing it so DH can give the odd bottle, or I can go out for a few hours. DS has taken 2 bottles fine so far. I'm hoping next weekend DH and I can go to the cinema and maybe for dinner with MIL babysitting.

We've noticed loads of development in DS in the past couple of weeks. He just seems much more aware, interested, stronger, awake more, more coordinated etc. We've had smiles for a couple of weeks (genius child wink) but they're much easier to get now. It all seems to have happened really quickly. The downside is he gets overtired really easily because cant switch off, and often fights his sleep. He's also found his voice and will often go from sleeping to fever pitch in seconds. He sounds like I'm killing him, when actually there's nothing wrong. He can't keep it up for long though, so we're lucky really.

Squid, I'm one of the lucky ones who wasn't traumatized by the birth, but I'm definitely looking back with rose tinted glasses now - actually quite looking forward to doing it again shock

I'm staying in Japan for Christmas, for the 1st time in 6 years sad. I usually go home for 3 weeks and spend Xmas with family and New Year with the same group of great friends. I'm really going to miss it this year. Christmas Day isn't even a holiday here.
But Xmas eve is a hol (emperor's bday?) so I've ordered a turkey and the trimmings from import meat place AND am splashing out to have someone else cook it, so I don't have to do anything except pick it up. MIL and aunt coming over. Hope to eat, drink mulled wine, play cards, watch a movie and go for a walk. It won't be same but still looking forward to it smile

I'm going Christmas shopping with MIL tomorrow, have to get EVERYTHING and wrap and send it ASAP, otherwise it'll never get there in time. Has anyone else just not really thought about Christmas til now?! I forget, who were the organized ones who sorted everything pre-baby? I envy you.

Sorry for the waffle - another feedathon. I think he's catching up after sleeping so long I'm easily pleased last night.

Pear crumble for breakfast sounds ideal, Thechick, at least it's got fruit in it!

Zara1984 Mon 10-Dec-12 08:45:46

thechick there ain't nothing wrong with dessert in the morning! Breakfast of champions I say! Before pregnancy and when I was fit I occasionally had banoffee pie before my morning run grin the sugar made me run faster!!

cherry do we have the same child?! Eager to see the world, but gets overtired and fights sleep...! Arrrgh.

Ok so DS woke up an hour after going down but it's because he was hot. Took him out of cellular blanket and swaddled him in muslin instead, plus gave him a few sips of cold formula out the fridge (had no cool boiled water prepared). Back to sleep almost immediately and still asleep now!!

Have been meaning to say, I found great black and white stimulation videos for babies on YouTube, search for "newborn visual stimulation". Best played on a phone held exhaustedly over baby's head at 6am.... grin

hufflepuffle Mon 10-Dec-12 11:18:43

Small steps ladies, small steps. Yesterday was first day in shower where did not hurt to wash my nipples!! Well, the good one anyhow.

Nor did it hurt to put dressing gown on!!

And I hav just finished a cup of warm coffee whilst DS playing on floor!

Onwards and upwards!!

Will read and post later.......... X

WantAnOrange Mon 10-Dec-12 11:42:46

TheChick Hello! DD is 9 weeks as well and does the same when lying on her tummy, so for his adjusted age that's really good!

Can't resist poting this link www.heimoose.co.uk/collections/babies-bodies-playsuits. Saw it and thought of Squid.

DD is having a nap shock. An actual nap in her moses basket!!!!!

Cherry I'm 'doing' christmas this at home for the first time, having PILs over for lunch. We usually go to other people but I dont fancy it with Arty being so little and it will be nice for DS to get to actually play with his new toys.

crazypaving Mon 10-Dec-12 12:17:36

Orange DS is also having a nap! But in his carseat blush at least it's not still in the car, I get points for that, right?!

We seem to be in the middle of a 9-week growth spurt. Apparently DS2 is on his own "special" timetable. Grumble grumble. And DS1 is full of snot and coughing like a chainsmoker all over the baby, gah. Means I'm up and down in the night like a yoyo to both of them. I am fucking knackered. And I'm starting to find it difficult to sleep when I have the opportunity, which was a big component of my PND last time, so I'm trying not to panic.

Beccus concentrate? Eh? What were you saying?

Yomping you write so eloquently so many things I felt with DS1. And look, I've got DS2! I echo what someone else said about the fact you worry makes you a good mother, but seriously, what squid said x100. You're on the same team, and what's good for you is also good for her.

Bella I would've actually done physical harm to my DH if he'd done that to me angry Hope he had a bloody good excuse! And well done you for surviving it all, sounds a bit traumatic sad Big glass of wine for you I think!

Zara that woman sounds unbelievable shock Good luck with that one... I think I'd actually have to stitch my trap shut in preparation.

chick mmmm crumble. Healthy breakfast.

I am now officially trying to lose weight, having actually GAINED weight since giving birth sad sad sad I sense this plan may be doomed to fail though, with Christmas so close on the horizon and mince pies sitting in the cupboard calling my name grin

Our Christmas tree is up and DS1 keeps pulling all the baubles off it angry and then fetching me to show me, saying with a terribly sad face "broken!" Grrrrr

WantAnOrange Mon 10-Dec-12 12:24:03

Crazy I have gained so much weight since giving birth that I now cannot do up my coat blush. BF makes me hungry all the time! How are we supposed to find time to excercise? And I have zero will power wrt food. And it's christmas!

Can't help but smile at your DS though. Sorry but it's cute!

crazypaving Mon 10-Dec-12 12:26:48

orange I also have no willpower. Chocolate is no longer a treat, it's a necessity. Need to get out of that headspace! And yes, starving all the time...

I'll send DS round to yours after Christmas to strip your tree for you grin

Elpis Mon 10-Dec-12 13:49:15

Everyone's given yomping so much good advice that I can't think of anything to add - except that it REALLY helps to get out each day, especially in nature or to see other mums. londonmrss - I didn't do NCT so was also short of opportunities. But if you're in London there are generally a lot of drop-in groups for babies. They're cheaper and more informal than baby yoga and often based near baby weigh-in clinics. Did your HV give you a list, or can you find out online? Sorry if this is bleeding obvious, but it wasn't to me first time round.

Had DS' follow-up appointment at the hospital today. It was on the children's ward. Fortunately DD didn't ask what was wrong with the children there sad because in many cases it was all too terribly obvious. Happily, DS' abscess is healing, though it occasionally disgorges pus. Off for the second of his three daily baths. He quite enjoys the perineal massage and has to get naked more often to help it dry out. Hmm. That will be messy.

Good afternoon everyone smile
Yomping I really can't offer any advice as I don't pretend to be an expert. I can only say that you know your baby best, and so the books won't really help- I defy anyone that says they have a textbook baby. Do what feels right for you, and seconding what Squid says about you both being on the same team.
Bella That sounds unbelievably shit, I hope you gave DP what for!! It's nice to see you rant occasionally, usually you are doing your best to cheer everyone else up!!
Elpis I hope DS abscess continues to heal up nicely. Children's wards are so awful sometimes aren't they? I remember having to stay on the long-term illness one when I was a bit younger, because there were no beds on the ward I was supposed to be on, and it was just awful sad I felt so terrible for all of them.

For christmas this year we are going to my mums for breakfast, and FIL's for lunch. No cooking for me although I will do the washing up I've kind of done some christmas shopping.. got DP's presents sorted and DD's sorted.. What's everyone bought their LO's for their first christmas? I found it so difficult!!
I feel really guilty, I haven't done any tummy time yet- will have some today when DD wakes up.
I'm also in the haven't-made-any-mum-friends yet- although fortunate enough to have a couple of friends/cousins that have children already. I find it quite difficult to inject myself into social situations.. I haven't even ventured out yet with DD by myself. I don't know why, its perfectly easy to put the sling on and walk, I just can't seem to work up the courage or energy to do it! Really must start to make the effort this week.
I seem to have become a bit of a hermit! I forget DD is only 3 weeks old though..

Crazy Chocolate is also a neccesity here as well. I've eaten a large bar of fruit and nut nearly every day grin It'll make my milk good right? i love my mum's excuses

Squid I've been given an appointment for a debrief in March.. and I'm debating wether to go or not.
The birth itself wasn't traumatising it was the bit after really. I think I'm over it but I'm not sure I want to go to this appointment and talk to someone else about it; it was hard enough talking to DP about it.
I feel better about it now, I know why it happened and I've got over the immediate fear of losing DD and DP (or them losing me), I don't know if its a good idea to go to this appointment and dig it all up again. Especially because I will cry, and then feel like a tit!

Angelico Mon 10-Dec-12 16:54:51

Another quick wave and run but a hug for Yomping - you've had great advice from all and it just sounds like you are being very hard on yourself. Definitely do not wake baby to feed / change / play - let them sleep and enjoy the down time smile We use Huggies Newborn and they are brilliant, she can go 10-12 hours ON in them with only the odd leak.

And yes yes yes to getting out of the house. Definitely recommend baby groups, especially the BFing groups and baby yoga which seem to be smaller where I live and therefore easier to get talking to people (some of the big mum and baby groups seem more cliquey). HVs tend to know more about what's on, especially if you're lucky and have a HV with young kids of their own who has been through them recently.

Oops bean awake after epic 3 hour nap. Baby yoga is awesome!!! She loves doing it, then conks out so I can have a peaceful lunch / coffee with friends grin

Beccus Mon 10-Dec-12 17:17:29

baby beccus slept so well last nite, but will not nap today. Have got her off 5 times today but she will only sleep for 10-20 min. seems hungry, too...we do struggle with day time naps and r lucky to get her down for 1 or 2 at the most sad :-(

hufflepuffle Mon 10-Dec-12 17:36:59

Quite distressed. DS has been coming off boob quickly and angrily for few days, arches, screams and v v hard to settle. Earlier took 45 mins. Next feed fine, this one similar but not as dramatic. I am concerned about silent reflux. He cried so much and so horribly earlier that I cried too.

Has anyone had this where it is so variable? Is it possible that some feeds fine but some cause it?? Have apt on Thursday for review and injections so can discuss then. I assumed if had it every feed would be affected. He is also v content often playing on mat or just changing mat. If he had silent reflux I'd assume he would not be comfy on back?

Both times today have been in the dodgy boob, perhaps repeated thrush and mastitis hav done something weird? Oh I don't know. I was frantic earlier. Now, 15 mins on he is quite content. Would he settle that quickly?

Mickey DH and I were just talking about what to get baby for Xmas. No idea really, maybe a cot mobile? What did you get?
So glad chocolate makes my milk good! wink

Beccus find that really interesting because DS does several 1.5-2hr naps everyday, but then he doesn't sleep for long spells at night. Sorry I can't offer any tips, he just does it. Maybe we only get one or the other?

squidkid Mon 10-Dec-12 18:20:05

I have bought this book for jess for xmas

blueberry girl

She's too young to understand, but I can read it to her until she does

Elpis Mon 10-Dec-12 18:20:50

hufflepuffle It sounds as though he might have colic, or some sort of tummy issue. I doubt your milk is to blame.

Have you tried putting him on your chest while you're lying down and striking his back with both hands? Until very recently this has reliably soothed DS. (He's now too big and falls off.)

Elpis Mon 10-Dec-12 18:23:39

DS is getting That's Not My Snowman from his sister for Christmas. It was 50p from the secondhand bookshop. Scrooge-like, I've concluded that his sister's cast-off entertainments can keep him happy till ... Well, ideally 2030.

Cherry I bought her a bright purple pair of dungarees.. they were so cute I couldn't resist wink

squidkid Mon 10-Dec-12 18:26:49

grin Elpis
I worried I was being a bit tight with £5 for my firstborn child's first xmas... and other times i wonder why i bought her anything at all!

Lizzietow Mon 10-Dec-12 18:33:40

Has anyone got a good daytime nap routine going? I'm struggling to put mine down in the house. Wakes up immediately!

Orenishii Mon 10-Dec-12 18:53:56

huffle DS has been doing that too - thrashing around the nipple, coming off, crying, arching, really unsettled. I've been giving him gripe water before feeds - only up to six times a day - and getting extra vigilant about winding. Friday night was the worst - I finally resorted to a bath at midnight since water seems to relax him and I figured it would relax him enough to fart/burp/sleep.

Having a bad day - feel very tearful and keep thinking horrible things like something awful might happen to me, leaving DS to cry and cry and cry and cry until my DH comes home and discovers me. I know this is a bit hormonal but I have no one else to talk to - my mum will freak out and immediately say I have PND. Maybe I am a bit down - I cried all the way back from Waitrose today while pushing DS in the pram - but I can recognise what I am: exhausted, lonely, overwhelmed, scared. But I can also recognise it won't be like this forever...just right now, and DH is overwhelmed in his own ways, with being self-employed and the bread winner. Things are hard right now, for both of us, and we're bickering. It's no wonder I feel down - but I don't need someone fearing for my sanity, I just need a good cry sad

Orenishii Mon 10-Dec-12 18:59:00

squid Anything by Neil Gaiman is awesome - excellent start to little Jess' education in amazing writing grin

crazypaving Mon 10-Dec-12 20:47:16

huffle my DS went through a phase of refusing the right boob - I posted about it here and on the feeding board. It was just a really weird phase and he went back to normal after a few days. Babies, eh. It's not you, it's the baby!! wink

orenishii I remember having feelings like that! I remember asking my DH once if there was a system we could put in place, just in case something like that happened to me. Glad you can recognise your feelings for what they are - you sound very on the ball! Hope you get some more sleep soon.

Just wondering what to get DS2 for Christmas! He officially needs nothing, and any toys/books will be immediately appropriated by DS1.

We're doing Christmas with DH's brother, sister-in-law and 3 kids. DS1 will have a ball with his cousins, which is the main thing! And we'll be catered for grin which is win-win, even if I find the SIL rather hard work....we'll be plied with champagne and put in a tiny double, where I will get absolutely no sleep for 2 nights. Ah well...champagne and no sleep, where can this go wrong?!

Londonmrss Mon 10-Dec-12 22:14:39

I'm tired. That's all. Hugs.

hufflepuffle Mon 10-Dec-12 22:31:52

Whatever it is, it is very inconsistent. Suspect it is wind rather than acid but he does not pull legs up at all. Ah well, asleep now but not expecting a settled night.

Thanks ladies for your feedback, helpful and insightful as ever.

Hugs to all having shitty day, wine to all having a good one!

Off to sleep while I can

Angelico Mon 10-Dec-12 23:46:45

Huffle sounds like wind - our bean gets it too some evenings and when she does it's awful, she stretches out and goes rigid, then screams and screams until I sit her up which seems to help. Also lying her on changing mat and just letting her kick and chirrup seems to help as sometimes the wind escapes. Is hateful though, poor bean is so contented apart from when the wicked wind strikes sad

lisbethsopposite Tue 11-Dec-12 00:11:01

Orenishii, sadness is not an illness. In Traditional Chinese Medicine they believe
our moods are meant to flow from happy to sad, worry relief etc. Try something to lift your mood, like sleep grin if you can get it. Everyone here has had sad moments... No waist no sex (except squid), no poos bickering with dh /dm/toddler nothing fits except a tracksuit no time for makeup and 4-5 hrs sleep.

Twobuttonsaway Tue 11-Dec-12 02:24:04

huffle I have thrashing, fussing and pulling off issues on occasional feeds too. It always happens for me in late afternoon or early evening and I thinks it's a combination of (over) tiredness and slower letdown/less good supply at that time of day. Basically he's grumpy about having to work to get milk! I find gentle fast giggle as he feeds distracts him a bit until his tummy is fuller when he calms down. Another possible for you?

Zara1984 Tue 11-Dec-12 03:46:28

DS had his 6-in-1 and PCV jabs today and now has a bit of a fever (on top of his snuffly nose/cold). Is there anything sadder than the "what's wrong with me??" cry of a newborn with a temperature? He has tears too sad

londonlivvy Tue 11-Dec-12 04:40:18

DD has just slept for four hours. Yay.

Zara its horrible when they are in pain,isn't it? So heart rending.

Huffle we always had worst arching of back etc at six pm feed, proper inconsoleable crying four ten or twenty mins, with tears. Now I am dairy free it is much improved, though she grizxles through the feed and arches her back, if I sing to her non stop, she keeps feeding. Could just be tiredness at that feed? twobutton has a good theory. Though she is generally more sicky, she doesn't seem distressed by being sick.. anyway, I hope you find a solution.

For Christmas I will be mostly delegating the work to DF and MIL who is coming to stay. Hats off to anyone who is juggling children and being domestic goddess. Impressive stuff. Not sure we will get a pressie for her. Perhaps a cute Xmas babygro or something?

Huge hugs orenishii . I have been there.

Big thank you to cherry.DD had started to object to her bath, I gave her a muslin and now she is much happier.

Hugs to yomping too. It is all so hard, but you are doing well.

Bella I hope DH had a good explanation. I would have been very unimpressed.

Sorry to anyone I've missed.

hufflepuffle Tue 11-Dec-12 05:28:24

Firstly Livvy I am so pleased for you that dairy free is helping bean. That is fantastic, I could cry with relief for you. Don't know if you interested in dairy alternatives but the Alpro soya chocolate milk is gorgeous!!

Thank you all so much for feedback. I do think it is wind as is so variable. As DH said too, after our initial hesitancy our cooking has now totally returned to normal with copious amounts of onions and garlic. This wknd we have had fajitas, a casserole and home made pasta sauce and cabbage. Perhaps the passing over wind theory relevant.

He has just also sneezed out a bogey the size of half a peanut! Hav kept to show DH! Maybe this was forcing him to swallow air?

Was mostly freaking yesterday as usually only wind issues later in day. But given that he has infacol later in day that makes sense. I will give but more infacol today and see how we go. DH gets cross at my hesitancy but I hate giving him chemicals!

Oh and we up now due to fartathon lkeading to poopy nappy, so I think u all correct...... Isn't it well I can listen to all your instincts when mine don't always work? Sigh

Thanks again

smileyhappymummy Tue 11-Dec-12 06:12:58

huffle we are also up following all night fartathon and failure to settle.
The poo finally came.
We have just finished bathing dd......

londonlivvy Tue 11-Dec-12 07:17:14

Huffle, such a relief here too. The feed for five, scream for twenty, feed for five, etc, regime was hideous and so horrid seeing her in pain. Sadly no soya. Doc said too much oestrogen. If it does properly work over the two week test period then she's going to refer me to a dietician to ensure I get enough calcium. Re wind, I think infacol is supposed to be at each feed to be max effectiveness.

Smiley, chuckling at poomageddon.

Tonight we have our NCT reunion dinner. Six couples and babes. Holy cow. I am not looking forward to it. We are semi guaranteed to have at least one baby screaming at any given point. I think the other people in the pub will hate us. DD does normally sleep from 7 or 8 but if in the midst f a screamathon, I can't see her settling. I cannot think why our NCT teacher organised it this way. Anyway, we will see.

Off to a mum ad baby group in the village hall ths morning. Hope some are nice

Beccus Tue 11-Dec-12 07:38:50

oh orenshii, i'n sorry your dh is feeling overwhelmed as well - if he is unable to support u and u guys r bickering that makes all this newborn malarky even harder :-( u r right in the exhaustion playing a big part. everything is 10 times worse with no sleep. lizzie, we have exact same problem here. had a lovely happy smiley bean yesterday morning who became a cranky nightmare. felt quite teary as she'd had a horrid day as i couldnt get her to sleep. i wanted my smiley happy baby back. i know those feelings r irrational- there was nothing more i could have tried to get her to sleep, but still the mummy guilt is there. lizzie, if u figure out the secret to daytime naps, please let me know! congrats livvy, on your bean's 4 hr sleep, and cherry, hope your bean starts sleeping longer at nite

Zara1984 Tue 11-Dec-12 08:42:39

So DS has got a fever from the jabs (nearly 39 degrees), Baby Panadol hasn't helped at all so getting admitted to hospital tonight sad

hufflepuffle Tue 11-Dec-12 09:16:37

Livvy shock at soya!!! I did not know...... Ffs! This is a minefield!!! I'll stop that then! Wouldn't want DS to get oestrogen .....

Bewildered at your dinner date. We hae not left house after 6pm as afraid of unsettling him or making him sleep til bedtime! But lovely nevertheless , hope you enjoy the company

And I thought infacol only used when needed. God, I'm getting more useless as days go on.....

Enjoy baby group! Yay!!

hufflepuffle Tue 11-Dec-12 09:17:29

Zara that is horrible! Hugs to you and DS.

squidkid Tue 11-Dec-12 09:47:00

Zara poor little thing and poor you. Will be thinking of you tonight and hoping all is well.

londonlivvy new parents meeting for an evening dinner... that is an interesting idea. I spend that time settling baby and frankly wouldn't go! Hope it's all ok, and good luck with the mum and baby group.
I'm glad the dairy-free is working a bit, you are a hero for doing that...

On the subject of baby/mum groups, I have been to a couple but I can't really seem to find enough in common with people whilst simultaneously trying to perform yoga and make jess not cry, so I haven't made any mates out of it.
I feel I am not very good at being a mum/ talking about being a mum and I also feel guilty that I find people a bit boring when they are just talking about their babies. This is a bit hard to explain without sounding like a nobber, but I find some groups (on one side of the city) extremely "yummy-mummy" and all the mums are kind of loud and pleased with themselves and seem to be constantly trying to compete for who has the best kit (it's probably insecurity but I find it a bit tiring sometimes, the girls who won't let you speak), and the ones round where I live the mums are very poor and much younger than me and mostly their english isn't that good and I am just a bit shy, about, being a doctor I guess, having a safe secure flat to live in, isn't that stupid? I must sound like a right cow, I don't mean to...
I miss male company, as well. Have always had lots of male friends and worked in jobs with lots of blokes. I wonder how it will be, for my boyfriend - we are both going part time in August and I've not yet seen a bloke at any of these groups.
Some days I feel like I just am not interested in speaking to people just because they have babies, but then I find you guys really interesting and fun so maybe I just should stick at it.
I am also lazy/lucky because I know three or four people on mat leave right now and I'd rather hang out with them because they're actually mates! Though i don't see them as much as I'd like.
I have been using maternity leave more to catch up with old friends who got neglected with the whole doctor thing than making new ones, really. Have quite a few mates who work shifts so they are sometimes around in the day as well.

Jeez, what a waffle squid.

Sorry you're feeling so sad Oreniishi sad. I often don't want to burden DH when I feel crap because he has so much else to deal with, but then he's the only person I have to talk to confused. Please accept my bony, hunched shoulder to cry on.

Zara, that's very worrying. I hope the fever comes down quickly and you get out the hospital soon.

Well done on going dairy free Livvy, sounds like it was worth it. glad the muslin worked.
We often go out for dinner, usually DS sleeps through it. Doesn't really affect his routine, because, well, we don't have one grin. But yes, six babies at one table will be interesting!

Went Christmas shopping today with MIL. She's so protective of DS, like he's a china doll. It does drive me a bit crazy. Anyway, managed get most presents so it was quite a successful day. I bought 2 boxes of chocolates from Godiva to send to family in the UK, but I don't know if they're going to make it - I'm salivating just thinking about them.

I think DS's Christmas present might be an Ergo baby carrier wink. I'm giving up with the Moby. Some days I put him in and think he's ok, so we go out but as time goes on he gets lower or I think his chin's too close to his chest or something. Also he always fights being put in so it's really horrible doing it when out and about. I'll need one for flying home in March anyway. That's my excuse...

And finally...had sex last night! 'twas very nice. Bit painful at first and thought I couldn't continue, but shifted round a bit and was fine.

Oh actually, quick question for those that are having sex...
What are you doing with regards to boobs?
Milk was leaking everywhere and nipples really sensitive, so had to leave them out the equation entirely sad and keep bra on.
Is that how it's going to be from now on?

BoraBora Tue 11-Dec-12 13:29:11

Room for a little one? My DD arrived on the 29th, so is six weeks now.

I've only read the beginning if this thread but am a bit freaked out now. Mine doesn't smile, doesn't have "naps" and the idea if self setting is foreign to us... She cries, I feed her, then she goes to sleep on me, she wakes, she cries, we change her nappy, she cries, I feed her and repeat every two hours. She wakes twice in the night.

That's it. We have no bed time routines confused she just comes into out bed when I go.

How do you know to do all of the stuff you're doing?,hmmhmm

BoraBora Tue 11-Dec-12 13:30:43

Plus I feel we don't do shy interacting when she's awake because she's nnot all crying. Won't go on a play mat, in a bouncy chair it swing. God, I'm worried she's really abnormal now.

FirstTimeForEverything Tue 11-Dec-12 13:43:44

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Welcome! smile

Don't be worried BoraBora! All babies are different, and yours would be one of the youngest on this thread. I call any sleep that doesn't happen at night a nap. grin

I had an episiotomy FirstTime, didn't get any advice and have been feeling fine for a while now, so just went for it.

Elpis Tue 11-Dec-12 14:19:33

Zara oh dear - how long has he had the post-jabs fever? DS developed one after his and I gave him children's ibuprofen. (I know he's less than three months but he was over 6kg and it's licensed for 2mo+ in the US. Plus it was all I had and DH was away so I couldn't send him out ... Do I sound as though I'm making excuses? I am.) He had the jabs at 2pm and was fine by the following morning. Let me know how it goes.

Elpis Tue 11-Dec-12 14:27:31

londonlivvy Is dairy-free just cows' milk, or all animal milk? Sheep's and goats' milk is closer to breastmilk in composition and you can get the yoghurt, cream, milk and butter from Ocado. I have sheep's milk yoghurt for breakfast as my acupuncturist says it's more easily digested. You can tell I live in north London, can't you? Sorry. blush

FirstTimeForEverything Tue 11-Dec-12 14:39:21

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FirstTimeForEverything Tue 11-Dec-12 14:40:22

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

londonlivvy Tue 11-Dec-12 14:41:58

Elpis I think it is just cows milk but it wasn't a v long appointment and I'm not sure I took it all in. You certainly can't get sheep milk in our village shop but I feel sure sainsburys will deliver! Am going back to doc on thurs so will have to double check.

Welcome first time and bora

Hope temp is down, Zara

Ouch FirstTime shock Not surprised you're not looking forward to it!

BoraBora Tue 11-Dec-12 14:53:57

Hmm, I'm just concerned as she doesn't seem to like anything...

lisbethsopposite Tue 11-Dec-12 15:08:07

hello all. I have come to terms with the new app but sometimes i am reading backward before I realise it.
Huffle I have showed Dh some of the mighty boogers toowink grin .
yomping your feelings are why i dumped those books. Head wrecking stuff .
re tummy time. i think it is to encourage head control which BF does. My excuse as i haven't done it.

Yes Lisbeth, I was thinking that (about BF and head control). Also I think when they're on your chest, or even shoulder, could be considered tummy time.

Londonmrss Tue 11-Dec-12 15:19:42

I saw a woman breastfeeding today and I'm so jealous. it was just such lively calm feeding for about half an hour. I just can't do that. my baby feeds furiously and noisily for 5-10 mins at a time and that's it. she was weighed at 6 week check yesterday and is comfortably gaining a good amount and is going straight along the 50th line on the graph so she is getting enough. it's just not lovely and relaxed like that. I'm terribly envious of those of you who feed like that.
hey bora and welcome firsttime!
right will settle down with a brew in a bit and catch up on all your posts.

lisbethsopposite Tue 11-Dec-12 15:26:41

London think... are you sad baby feeds too fast? think 2am, 4am...
I have a gobbler too.
Funny story. we are co sleeping (hate that termhmm ) and feed half asleep/awake . Anyway realised I was offering boob through fabric . Poor baby .

hufflepuffle Tue 11-Dec-12 16:19:48

I have a furious feeder too! Was one of reasons that BF group was so upsetting for me! Never mind that I flash my entire boob. Being brave for me is feeding in kitchen rAther than living room.........

So want to post, so not being given opportunity by DS......

hufflepuffle Tue 11-Dec-12 16:25:12

Lady in Marks n Spencer says to me 'oh he's a lovely big boy, what is he about 4 months? My grandson is the same age' She went v red when I said 8 weeks tmrw......!!

YompingJo Tue 11-Dec-12 17:03:16

Feeling better today, thanks for support. Realise I am too hard on my self but no idea how not to be! Squid, what you said about undermining myself was very perceptive, you made me realize that's exactly what I was doing. It's so easy to doubt yourself though. I also realised I'm an authority at work and used to knowing how to do everything, so the feeling of not knowing the right thing to do totally throws me! Saw doctor today, he gave me tel. no. for local counselling service and also prescribed me a book!! kind of a self help thing. Will keep an open mind... trying to have me time every day and making myself relax. I always feel loads better when DH is home as well.

Zara, thinking of you, hope temp comes down quickly.

Bora, mini yomping was EXACTLY like that until about 6 and a half weeks. she seemed to hate being alive. Then over a couple of days she just... cheered up. Now she smiles and chats and has started to play with stuff like being at this on play mat. hang in there, it will get better!

BoraBora Tue 11-Dec-12 17:38:48

Fingers crossed, yomping! That's almost exactly it - the more alert she becomes, the more disappointed with the world she seems to be hmm. I'm praying for her to smile, just to make her challenging-ness a bit easier.

zara thinking of you, that's horrid.

Orenishii Tue 11-Dec-12 17:44:07

Thanks for all the hugs and shoulders to cry on - it's so appreciated just to share the these things, this is such a caring group smile Feelimg better today and managed to get to baby yoga!

Watched this video this morning, about the connection between the brain and heart, and how the heart rhythms can be felt outside the body and so mother-child bonding comes from our hearts becoming synchronistic. ttfuture.org/jcp/videos/mother-infant-bonding

My check up isn't until 3 Jan, making it 10 weeks and not 6! Not impressed. I had a full episiostomy - should I wait for the check up sign off on sex? shock TMI but sometimes my vajayjay feels alright, other times it feels weird like there's a tampon not quite in right...maybe I should ring the docs to bring the appointment forward confused

Bora don't worry - our DC are two days apart. I have no routine, just days of vague ideas! DS used to pass out on the boob...now he headbutts me when I try to win him hmm

BoraBora Tue 11-Dec-12 17:52:49

Hi Oren - I've name changed since --so the world doesn't see how truly neurotic I am--but I remember you from the overdue thread. Christ, if its not one thing it's another.

She made it clear she didn't want to come out and now she's here it seems the universe has confirmed her suspicions.

Don't get me wrong, I love DD with all my heart but I'm emotionally drained. I had 9 months of hyperemerisis followed by a traumatic birth and now this. I keep thinking if wont last forever, and it doesn't last for ever; it just swaps for some fresh hell hmm

BoraBora Tue 11-Dec-12 17:54:16

And yy to the head butting - she chins me and then screams at me like its my fault grin

welcome bora and firsttime.
bora we dont have any kind of routine either- i suppose this is what they call baby led! LO is only 3 weeks old though, but i have no.plans to try and set a routine really.
firsttime i had a third degree tear too- i was only told to wait 4 weeks for sex and the HV actually advised me to have sex before my 6wk review at the tear clinic.. funny how advice differs!! I will admit i am actually terrified of having sex again.. as much as i want to!! im sure that wont make the experience any easier grin

Londonmrss Tue 11-Dec-12 18:03:10

bora, someone said to me a few months ago that for the first few weeks of their lives, babies are just tubes- they just take stuff in one end and it goes straight out of the other. they all develop at different rates. plenty of people on this thread have babies that sleep perfectly and fed amazingly from day 1. I have a baby who is starting to love smiling and interacting, but still won't sleep longer than 2 hours and really struggled with feeding. they're all little people; individuals. sometimes it would be nice if we could programme them to act and react as the books say, but really they fall within a bell curve. that's what I tell myself anyway! every baby is different and every day with the same baby is different.

BoraBora Tue 11-Dec-12 18:07:46

I guess I know that on one level London. I think I should perhaps focus on the stuff she does well; she does eat and sleep well.

yomping and oren so glad you guys are feeling better today. My mum read a great book about depression and it really helped her understand it... i will ask her what it was called.
i actually ventured out today, by myself!! DD in a sling and doggy on a lead and we went for a walk. Was a little stressful trying to control the dog (a gordon setter very used to beibg off the lead but we live in an urban area so she has to be on a lead round here) and was terrified she would pull us both over but it worked fairly well. Im not sure ive got the carrier on properly though- its a babybjorn but it was quite uncomfortable- think it needs adjusting.
i feel like i have achieved something today. and i managed to have TWO cups of tea with a friend while Pippa finally slept. Twas a very bad night last night.. she has got a cold and hasnt let me put her down. And she finally had a poo- THE most minging nappy ive ever seen. nearly a weeks worth of baby poo in one nappy... lovely grin

Woolybob Tue 11-Dec-12 18:24:38

Greetings bora & firsttime

I feel a bit of a lurker as have been reading and not posting for ages it feels. Saw paeds yesterday, very nice man who was able to reassure that he thinks dd healthy but as much use as a chocolate teapot regarding the weight gain/bf issues. Said can't advise us to supplement more as bf best but also can't advise to carry on as we are as needs to gain more weight...
Me: So what do we do?
Paed: <shrugs>
Not sure we've given the bf lady's advice long enough so for now plan is to carry on switchfeeding with breast compressions. Try and express after feeds and in morning if opportunity and use to top up plus one bottle of formula as well. Could do with an extra pair of hands confused. Have appt on 20th back at hospital but can cancel this if "we don't want it". Not sure what they'll do if we go - mentioned blood tests but seems mean to inflict that on her...

On the plus side have managed to get her to have a couple of brief naps in her crib over the last couple of days! Also getting a 6 hour stretch at night (which I feel slightly guilty about - should I be waking her to feed her? On the other hand rest is good for milk production...)

Fed up of the mummy guilt and differing advice from health professionals.

Glad everyone enjoyed their nights out, I enjoyed mine last week but it was also weird - like when you've left your handbag somewhere...

grin at all the bogey saving, might start collecting DD's various secretions for show and tell when dh returns....

FirstTimeForEverything Tue 11-Dec-12 18:27:53

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

zara sorry i forgot to say, hope DS gets much better soon- thinking of you xx

Londonmrss Tue 11-Dec-12 18:49:28

wooly does your baby tell you when she's hungry? does she cry etc? if so I certainly wouldn't ruin a 6 hour chunk of sleep by waking her to feed (although I am speaking through a haze of 6 weeks of intense sleep deprivation). if you usually fed to a schedule and she doesn't ask for a feed then maybe you would prefer sticking to some sort of ' every 4 hours' schedule.
is anyone traveling for Xmas? we're going to my family in Yorkshire which is about a 3-4 hour drive. I'm a bit nervous about the journey not to mention the fact that she's having jet fiat jabs 2 days before that...

Londonmrss Tue 11-Dec-12 18:50:09

hugs to you Zara. let us know when you can- hope all is ok.

Londonmrss Tue 11-Dec-12 18:51:49

'jet fiat jabs'? fucking predictive text. think I meant 'her first jabs'...

Angelico Tue 11-Dec-12 20:02:29

Yay Yomping grin It will get easier now, I promise. Obviously there will still be tough moments (like last night at 02:00 when bean was whining and fistling and I felt like going to another room and just sleeeeeeeeeeping grin) but when they start to smile and play and sing a bit the cuteness kindof makes up for everything else smile

Zara if you can get Calpol in NZ that's what we got recommended for post-jabs. We gave bean some last week for sore throat (she was coughing, then screaming because the coughing hurt) and just one dose seemed to help a lot, she was able to go to sleep.

Waves at Bora and FirstTime

Bean met Santa today!!! It was so funny, event organised by Surestart for all mums in the area and was actually quite nice, we made a bauble and got a photo with Santa. She even got a present - nice little Gruffalo book - pretty cool when it was free grin Was a bit mad getting out of the house in time for it but just about made it...

Zara1984 Tue 11-Dec-12 22:05:15

Hey all - DS had a fitful night. He was given another dose of Pamol (same as Calpol) and it settled him for a few hours but temp back over 38 this morning. Consultant and all staff very watchful of his blotchy rashy skin (they are certain it's a reaction to his jabs, but very careful to rule out meningitis at every hourly check - a few of his symptoms are the same as those for meningitis). We are staying another night as fever has not come down really. Has had more paracetemol and is sleeping now.

The fever came on 3 hours after jabs. Consultant said he may need to have a different vaccination schedule to other babies.

I was wondering whether to just give him paracetemol or ibuprofen myself at home but as soon as his temp went past 38 and then 39 I wasted no time and went straight to GP who then referred us to the hospital.

Like any good paranoid mother I brought my Braun Thermoscan thermometer to hospital so I can check DS' temp whenever I like!

My trusty travel steriliser will be getting another outing here! Another annoyance at not bfing - while waiting to go up to paeds ward from ER he was hungry and I had no more formula for him sad

Poor DH is still in Ireland and wishes he were here with us sad

Lizzietow Tue 11-Dec-12 22:13:49

yomping yay the good old books on prescription service! I once helped set one of those schemes up in my librarian days! (Yup boring librarian here- though no longer [even more boring NHS]).
Anyway, I'm glad you're feeling more positive. It's not easy having a baby as I think we're all finding out. It can be terrifying in fact!
I thought it would be easy the second time round. It's not. Not only had it been really hard having a toddler too, but I feel just as anxious as I did the first time. Find myself googling random things like "daytime naps baby advice"!! at various points in the day!!

hufflepuffle Tue 11-Dec-12 22:28:31

Och Zara that sounds tough, especially as no DH. Bless you all. Sounds like he being well cared for. Hugs to you both xx

Angelico Tue 11-Dec-12 22:55:37

Hope your bean is okay Zara x

londonlivvy Tue 11-Dec-12 23:04:31

Zara, hoping your little one improves soon. Sounds like he is being closely watched over which is great.

Our NCT meal was mixed. One little lad screamed non stop, for two hours. Apparently this is normal evening behaviour at their house . My heart went out to his mum. I only get about 40mins to an hour and that feels like an eternity. Nothing we can say can help, though, and I can't be of practical help as have my hands full already. Other than the screaming, it was ok, though I haven't really bonded with anyone yet. They're all so much younger than me (I'm 37 and next oldest is 30) and different interests etc.

OctoberOctober Tue 11-Dec-12 23:11:31

zara just wanted to let you know I'm thinking about you and hope all is well with DS.

Know what you mean about running out of formula, same thing happened to us in emergency trip to hospital last week. We asked them to get some from maternity but 2 mums overheard us and offered us spare cartons - I could have cried at their kindness in adversity.

Zara1984 Tue 11-Dec-12 23:37:53

Sigh october it's a situation where it's easy to feel guilty again about not bf, huh?

It must be harder for NZ mums in that situation as ready-to-drink formula is only available in hospitals here. People always look inquisitively at my Aptamil cartons like they're some newfangled contraption! They only have a soy-based one available at the hospital too so I am getting DMIL to bring his usual powder in for me to make up on the ward. Not that DS seems to care what flavour the formula is.. But the soy-based one makes him smell like peanuts!!

Orenishii Tue 11-Dec-12 23:46:25

zara thinking of you, it must be rotten spending all those hours in the hospital but it is hopefully of some comfort that he is being watched over and cared for. And massive props to you for acting so swiftly and taking the initiative! Sounds like you did so well in a situation where I think I would have dithered!

Londonmrss Wed 12-Dec-12 06:21:32

hugs Zara. that sounds horrible. hope you're ok.
we skipped off to the docs last week when she looked a bit red and her temp was 37.5. the six said anything up to 37.5 is normal and anything above is abnormal. anything above 38 and you should go straight to a and e.
well we've had the longest sleep yet- 11pm til 3.30am so I'm quite impressed. she is such a noisy squeaky squawky sleeper though that I didn't sleep that much.
this was also the first night that ok have exclusively breast feed her rather than given a bottle of expressed. she did seem to eat less because of this but it's really hard to tell. I'm constantly paranoid that she isn't getting enough because I can't see how much she gets.

lisbethsopposite Wed 12-Dec-12 06:40:52

awake an hour. baby asleephmm hmm Thinking of you Zara

smileyhappymummy Wed 12-Dec-12 07:23:37

Thinking of you zara, it's horrible being in hospitwl with baby.
Terrible night here again, waking every hour and only settling with feeding. Getting worse at sleeping not better, she's 10 weeks tomorrow and surely this should be improving. No idea what to do.

lisbethsopposite Wed 12-Dec-12 07:30:19

mummy Afraid no wisdom here. Try to get rest- growth spurt?

Toddler alert here.

Love love love my children - love starting day to 2 yr old calling ' mummy mummy '

londonlivvy Wed 12-Dec-12 08:29:33

Quick question for you ladies. .. I have very sore - tender to touch - boobs. What is this? Not red (therefore not mastitis?). Could it be a forerunner of first period? Or what?

squidkid Wed 12-Dec-12 09:13:51

That's rough zara, really hope all is ok and is resolving post-jabs rash.

livvy how long postnatal are you now? I had a period 8 weeks postnatal (stopped bleeding about 3-4 weeks). It was very light, didn't even need a pad.Didn't have any other symptoms tho.

smileymummy that's really hard sad Thinking of you... try and get as much rest as possible.

Sis in law had a bit of a meltdown yesterday, she is doing so well but has a 3 wk old and a toddler and had a difficult birth and still has a catheter in... she called me and i went over. Was a bit worried she was unwell initially but she seemed better with some painkillers, tlc, and food. I took toddler out to runaround for an hour i think that helped. She has an appt with uro-gynae today so really hopiung she gets the catheter out.

I got home at about 7pm and went straight to bed. I have a rotten cold/sore throat / cough which just came on all of a sudden yesterday afternoon. Boyfriend has the same. Jess is coughing a bit but otherwise happy, feeding and sleeping as usual.... fingers crossed

ugh think i'm just going to stay in bed today! i feel like shit. hope i get better for my birthday (friday)

Angelico Wed 12-Dec-12 09:45:41

How are things this morning Zara?

And Smiley as Lisbeth said it does sound like a growth spurt - exhausting. <sends hug>

Livvy could well be period by sounds of things. I seemed to get mine last week, a week after D&C - it probably 're-set' everything hormonally.

Squid sympathy on the cold sad I've escaped so far this year with being off work and away from snot-laden kids but it's only a matter of time... confused Bean still coughing poor chick although she doesn't seem bothered in between coughs but does make these hilarious world weary sighs after a coughing fit - the kind of noise you hear adults make when they've just had a big coughing fit smile Just hoping it doesn't affect her 2nd jabs next week.

So I have finally stopped bleeding! Only took 11 weeks... confused Am revelling in my freedom here too as DH took Bean to see Santa at his workplace for an hour - nice as he missed the thing yesterday. Nice for me too as I was able to wash my hair and take my time about it too. Going to go and have a coffee and croissant and savour the peace grin

squidkid Wed 12-Dec-12 09:48:06

Yomping glad you are feeling better. Hope the doctor was nice and understanding. It's a tough time and periods of relaxation when you can get them are very important. (I feel so much for people with twins!! or without partners!!)

Any chance of handing baby to DH for an hour and booking yourself a postnatal massage....? I did that the other week it was INCREDIBLE.

squidkid Wed 12-Dec-12 09:52:29

Angelico thanks I am normally immune to colds following a ridiculous respiratory job where I had some version of flu for four months... since then have had about one cold in two years! Blah, I just hope jess doesn't catch it, I believe breastfeeding is some protection for her.

Were you mardy about getting a period!? grin I was, I was like, hang on, I thought no periods were part of the breastfeeding job description!!
Massive sympathies on the 11 weeks bleeding, that is shit!

hufflepuffle Wed 12-Dec-12 09:53:19

Flip me. Been up since 6 and Internet only working now. How to push a new mummy over the edge! I felt lost!! Phew......

OctoberOctober Wed 12-Dec-12 09:59:11

Ooh, thought of postnatal massage is lovely... Must be even nicer if you are bf, I found that my shoulders felt like they were going to fall off then.

Didn't manage to get all of us out of house in time for DS to have breakfast at nursery, had to do at home. Defrosting the car is the final nail in terms of getting us out on time.,, bloody weather, also wrapping us all up so we can barely move takes timeconfused

Elpis Wed 12-Dec-12 10:31:16

squid Years since I heard anyone say 'mardy'! Takes me back...

Londonmrss Wed 12-Dec-12 10:35:30

it's it bad that I'm not constantly entertaining my baby? we have the stokke high chair- expensive, bit the most useful piece of baby kit we've bought so far. anyway, there are times during the day when she's quite independent and will happily just sit in it just gazing around the room for half an hour at a time... so sometimes I just pop off and watch telly for a bit. it's that bad? I feel like I should be chatting to her and stimulating her every second she's awake...

Londonmrss Wed 12-Dec-12 10:36:08

we're still in the same room though...

Hope DS is ok Zara. Have they figured out the problem?

Livvy, preggers?! wink I never knew I'd be getting a period soon, that's all I need.

Hope you feel better soon Squid. Your SIL is lucky to have you, sounds like you're a great help.

grin Huffle, no Internet definitely counts as a major crisis.

DS did a 4 hour sleep last night. Bliss. I could get used to this! smile

He's been a bit grouchy today though. We went Christmas shopping in the city, and he had a major meltdown in one building. I didn't think he was hungry as had fed not long before, but just wanted somewhere to sit to sort ourselves out and maybe feed if nothing else worked. But there was nothing in the whole building, no seats, no baby room, not even a decent size toilet. I was pushing the pram, with loads of shopping and carrying DS, sweating hot and stressing out big time. Ended up feeding him sitting on the stairs. angrySo pissed off.

On the other hand, all the department stores have great baby rooms, with BF cubicles, bottle heaters and sinks for FF, loads of changing tables, toys etc. They even have baby weighing scales. DS weighs 4.8kg grin

londonlivvy Wed 12-Dec-12 11:32:36

Oh GOD cherry, the same fleeting thought did occur to me. The horror.

DF says he doesn't want any more kids as I wasn't coping with one. He told me at night he was wondering at one point whether he'd have to give up work to look after DD as I wasn't coping. I was stunned that he'd even think about that. I was coping (in that DD was being looked after) but filled with misery and unhappiness. I'm so much better now, even after nights like last night when I had four hours sleep. I think it's because I don't feel so overwhelmed and clueless, and I'm also gradually getting my head round the fact that this is my new life. I still have times when I feel sad that my life, as I previously knew it, is over (like when I heard someone clip into his cycling pedals last night...made e so sad I won't be competitively cycling again for years) but mostly I'm getting on with it, meeting more people and DD is getting more engaging too.

Anyway, sorry for self centred post. Ow my boobs. Tis like little needles in there.

hufflepuffle Wed 12-Dec-12 11:43:11

Och Livvy that is big. We do not know how we will cope, the ideal is certainly not reality. I have been shocked by how clueless I feel too. I hav said from day 1 I cannot do this again. We hav told ourselves to stop thinking about it. For now DS is our son and only child and no point thinking about another. I am 35 and usually so organised and in control. I do think this is relevant. You hav had such a majorly hard start, perhaps 2nd time it would not be so alien. I don't know. I think if we were younger and could leave a bigger gap, but the thought of toddler & baby are hideous. I admire anyone on here who does it.

Watch those sore boobs. Don't assume period! Any other symptoms seek advice. Keep check on your own temp. Sorry to be a pessimist!! Just fed up with infections myself!!!

Again, intended to catch up, single reply!!! So much I wanted to respond to...... Laters! X

hufflepuffle Wed 12-Dec-12 11:56:48

I blabber too much Livvy. What I was trying to say is I hav had harder start than most. Glad u feeling better and decision to say no more kids seems reasonable. But it is early days.

Hopefully DP sees that too.

Keep up the good work.

londonlivvy Wed 12-Dec-12 12:13:38

I am 37, huffle, so even less time available. But actually am quite keen on the idea of two. Perhaps because I have such a bond with my sisters, I wouldn't want to deprive her of that. And to not have more cos I can't cope? I'd feel like such a failure. But you are right, toddler plus baby is terrifying. And lots of twins in my family so we could end up with three... Eek.

Really glad things are looking up for you Livvy. I suppose it must have been hard for DH to see you so unlike your usual self, too. Totally agree I things seem brighter now there's more interaction and "reward".
Sorry for the inappropriate joke! grin

squidkid Wed 12-Dec-12 12:29:39

livvy I took a pregnancy test a few weeks ago blush

I'm sorry you were rattled by what DF said... it is such early days, in the whole life of a child, though. It is pretty hard to be cheery when sleep deprived.
Far too early to think about whether you'd have a second, even if you feel due to age that you couldn't leave it years and years - right now, far too early!

huffle interesting what you say about control, I feel I have managed ok which is maybe because I am naturally quite chaotic grin Well not to the extent of some people, but certainly tendencies in the opposite direction of OCD. I still found weeks 3-5 REALLY hard though. And I had an easier birth than most.

Cherry that feeling when they are screaming in public is the absolute pits, isn't it!? Even though logically you've heard a baby scream in public loads of times and never cared or noticed.

hufflepuffle Wed 12-Dec-12 13:01:33

R there any front facing baby carriers that are praised? We have baby bjorn air. He hates looking at my chest.....! Boring! Not quite old enough bit feel he would prefer looking out. But I've read too much negative press on Bbjorn now. :-(

cheesymonster Wed 12-Dec-12 13:24:18

londonmrss I don't do much entertaining either! That's why I like having visitors who can distract her for a while! I'm never sure what I'm supposed to do when she's awake during the day. I always worry that if she naps too much during the day (going out in the car or in the pram will send her off to sleep) then she won't sleep at night. She has a vibrating bouncy chair and a baby gym mat thing and luckily loves both so I just sort of alternate between the two. Never remember to do tummy time. In between feeds and nappy changes it's pretty much the blind leading the blind... What is everyone else doing?

FirstTimeForEverything Wed 12-Dec-12 13:27:15

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FirstTimeForEverything Wed 12-Dec-12 13:47:04

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FirstTimeForEverything Wed 12-Dec-12 13:49:56

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OctoberOctober Wed 12-Dec-12 13:50:38

firsttime I'm ff DS, generally 6-7 bottles of 180ml although not all finished. He is 8 weeks. I'm getting him weighed this afternoon but he was 10-1 a fortnight ago. I was v concerned about over feeding but the hvs have all assured me that this isn't too much. I think the recommended amt is 150-200ml per kg.

FirstTimeForEverything Wed 12-Dec-12 13:54:08

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Honeycantthinkofanxmasnickname Wed 12-Dec-12 15:40:22

Agghhhh. Just accidentally knocked the side of Dash's head with my hand while I was trying to stop him pushing himself of my knee. It wasn't hard but he cried really hard for about 10-15 seconds. Bad mummy. Should I be worried? He's fed fine since.

hufflepuffle Wed 12-Dec-12 16:57:38

Had visitor with 4 yr old this afternoon. What will ours all be like by then?!

Christmas .... I could bypass it this year tbh. I am not a grinch and not 'down' but DS is going to be 10 weeks old and I'd rather stay in house and continue trying to be calm and relaxed and routine. We are going to MILs for dinner (which is actually 12-4) then my parents for another 4 hrs. This means lots of BF not on my sofa and sleeping in strange environments. Not that he sleeps well in day anyhow. Sigh. Well as long as we get home for bath at 9 ish.

Present wise we got him a lovely tummy time soft roll thing from Mothercare. Everyone gushing over baby's first Christmas. As I say, 10 weeks......!

Contemplating no Christmas tree. House full of baby stuff. Maybe I am a grinch..........!

Squid- feelings now about birth Well there is no doubt I had a traumatic one and it took me weeks to discuss it. However, BF has been such a feckin trial and honestly the hardest thing I hav ever done. I look back on my birth as a bit disappointing as it was well, just, well, bloody crap. And so not what I hoped. Recovery was difficult and emotional. But it was over and is done and I will never go through natural labour again, on medical advice.

But it no longer makes me cry. And I can discuss it with anyone. So I think I am officially over it! BF however had been so much harder than expected and wracked with disappointment and exhaustion. However I know it too will pass! And the delight of this monster growing baby on my milk is making up for it. Until the next complication!

Lizzietow struggling to see any day time pattern emerging. From 9pm to 6am, know what happens. From then, anyone's guess!! Disliked sleeping much in day and I ufuslly take him out in car around 2 as he bloody needs some sleep!! This may be a folly but if not he just gets crosser and crosser and night sleep dodgy too. Hopefully he gets more predictable with time!

In saying that, currently been sleeping since 3, is now nearly 5!

WantAnOrange Wed 12-Dec-12 17:30:22

Feelings about birth are mixed. In my head I know it was a good outcome. I had a healthy, happy baby and a healthy me but I feel angry about it. I feel traumatized by the speed and intensity and afraid of having to go through that again one day. It's the one thing stopping me from saying "I definately want more children". I felt completely let down by the midwife on maternity ward (where I was induced) and that all the negative aspects were down to her and her unbelievable lack of interest. I feel embarassed that other people's DP's were stood outside the bathroom door having a converstation about me because the bathroom has no privacy and is literally off the corridor, outside one of the maternity ward rooms, where people can visit. I am hurt and angry that I had to plead for gas and air and they tried to bully me into an examination I was in to much pain to cope with. I am very grateful for DH who put his foot down and was my voice when I couldn't speak for myself, who got me back to my room (I still hadnt been allowed up to delivery ward at this point!) when I was so far into my labour that I couldn't walk, and I feel eternally gratefull to the midwife who delivered Arty, who finally made me feel safe again. I have never been so happy to see anyone in my life!

Apparently I still have some issues blush.

hufflepuffle Wed 12-Dec-12 17:38:57

That is hard Wantan. I was so lucky and privileged to hav fantastic MW care once in delivery suite. The admissions was not great tbh and I've sort of forgotten about that....... But I had a v v long journey, yours was fast and frightening. I suppose the knowledge that IF I do it again will hav to be planned ECS and thus I will be on more control.

I hope sincerely that you learn to put it behind you and if you ever do this again you have good support in advance from medical staff. X x

Mickey just remembering u said u have a 'debrief' apt. Is this par for the course? Never heard of before!

WantAnOrange Wed 12-Dec-12 17:50:00

If I ever do it again it will be at home!!!! I know, the best laid plans and all that.....

hufflepuffle Wed 12-Dec-12 17:59:39

In this area know how many home births in 2010 out of 5000??? 1!!!!

But we are so so much better provided for with MW care in NI. 1-1 guaranteed in main hospitals. I know some areas on England hav major issues with MW provision.

Considering my experience I'm glad I didn't try and insist on home birth to increase those stats!!!

Huffle I don't know if it is routinely offered everywhere in the UK.. although it is routinely offered in our NHS trust. Which is really good I think. Having said that, I still haven't made up my mind if I want to talk about it anymore. It doesn't make me cry anymore, like yours Huffle, but now I've cried about it and got it over with I don't really need to dig it all up again. Or do I?! Who knows...

In good news today- I took the buggy out and we walked into town and back today (back with lots of shopping grin ) I feel so much better for it. Definately yes to the advice about going out every day- it feels great!

Huffle Also with you on being glad that I was actually refused a home birth. I would have died, without a doubt.

Beeblebear Wed 12-Dec-12 18:20:30


This is how our mornings usually go. Wake, eat, "face time" which is basically us making faces,.singing songs,.making noises for 10 -30 minutes. Then a bit of tummy time. At first about 2 min was all he could stand now up to almost 10. Then feed again and then into the swing for a nap. This is tv time for us on a home day, or getting ready time if we are going out for the day.

Elpis Wed 12-Dec-12 18:37:59

londonlivvy Sympathy over your DF's remark. That's exactly the sort of thing DH used to say first time around. I think men can feel very powerless during this time and it's a way of reasserting control for them. First few months really bear no relationship to the rest of childhood.

To those ebm who suspect their periods are returning - it's because your babies are sleeping through! Leaving several hours between feeds cuts the level of prolactin. But it varies between women. DD slept through at 9 months and if took 22 for mine to return.

Beccus Wed 12-Dec-12 20:24:39

londonmrs, we get up, change nappy, 'chat', play gym, story, re-feed and hope she feeds herself to sleep. this rarely happens, so i might put her in the sling to get her off. i pop her in her cot asleep and then she will wake after 10 mins. i will cuddle and then faff with my grizzley overtired baby until it's time to feed again and will hope she feeds herself to sleep....by this stage all routine has gone - i think playtime is banned now she is overtired. she's better when we go out as we have more time in sling so sleeps in there and enjoys socialising

Zara1984 Wed 12-Dec-12 20:26:22

Hi all! DS much better, should go home today. Need to quiz consultant though about what exactly caused all this.

feelings about birth in my head I ramble on and on about this. Best for me to keep it short and sweet. In practical terms, all the essentials were provided. Delivery midwives and paeds were excellent, when Tom's heart stopped on the resuss table the emergency team were in like a flash and did what needed to be done. The SHO did a very good job of stitching me up (but I haven't had sex yet, eek). BUT beyond the basic medical essentials I was left to my own devices. And as a first time mum (and DH first time dad) the emotional essentials and bf support are nearly as important as the medical essentials. Staff need to be aware of that.

Do I want another baby? Yes. But right now I think I could only do this all one more time, tops. If I have any complications with my next pregnancy, and particularly if induction is on the cards, I am going to consider requesting an elective c-section.

On the TMI front to do with menstrual cycles, b/c I'm FF my cycles are getting back to normal. And I had egg white cervical mucus yesterday. The thought of being able to get pregnant right now if I had sex makes me want to stand 10 feet away from all men and brandishing a weapon of some kind.

DS has been having some soy-based formula here at the hospital (equivalent of SMA) and my god it makes his poos awful! Very dark green, sticky like the transition meconium/regular poos and it STINKS. Aptamil poos are way closer to bf poos (still thicker, but less stinky, yellow mustard colour, seedy and yeasty smell like bf poos). Just an observation if anyone wondered about the differences between brands!

Zara1984 Wed 12-Dec-12 20:34:09

honey I accidentally whacked DS' head with the seatbelt on the plane a few times (I blame turbulence!!). And the other day he was bobbing his head so much in on my shoulder he bumped it into my teeth and howled!!! Felt awful but just cuddled and kissed him and apologized to him (but it was his own doing, in fairness!!)!

firsttime DS takes 6-8 bottles a day. Mostly takes 120-180ml but for a couple (eg the night feeds) he often just takes 80-100ml. I make his bottles up to 200ml (that's the next stage up from 150ml bottles with the NZ equivalent of Aptamil I'm using here) so there's always enough for him, even if for some bottles I end up chucking out half. As its warm here I offer 20ml cool boiled water between feeds but will give him his next bottle if he's still hungry after that. He is going about 3-5 hours between feeds.

Zara1984 Wed 12-Dec-12 20:45:01

Just chatted to consultant. If snot swab shows viral infection then that was probably (in addition to jab) what caused temperature. Same with urine sample, if that shows a UTI. If either of those show nothing then it was jab that caused it, but benefit of vaccinations means should probably just have normal jabs at 4 months etc but monitor carefully.

Going home later this morning! smile

crazypaving Wed 12-Dec-12 20:46:04

honey I faff about when latching DS2 on to make sure his bottom arm is in the right place and quite regularly I brain him against one of DS1's toys that have been "helpfully" placed on the sofa next to me blush I'm either killing off all his brain cells or he'll just be extremely robust... Oh and he regularly headbutts me when I'm trying to burp him. It seems to hurt me more than him!

elpis does that mean your DH has come round to your DS a bit more?

Zara1984 Wed 12-Dec-12 20:58:49

firsttime just re-read your post - yeah I reckon increase the amount in her bottles to 180ml (or whatever the next stage is) - she might want just a touch more than 150ml. My midwives/health nurses and Aptamil helpline (no surprises there) said not to worry, it's all within a normal range. If she's hungry, feed her!! smile I think my DS has always been determined to eat lots - he was 7 lb 4 oz at birth and was just over 12 lb at 6 weeks 2 days...!

Londonmrss Wed 12-Dec-12 21:13:25

just wanted to add my feelings about birth: it was bloody awful. if I was thinking about another baby I would want to discuss birth options with my doc first. although I know all births are different, I can't go through that prolonged agony again, and I can't put my husband through the trauma of seeing me thinking I was dying and wishing I was dead.
that said, I hope we do have another baby in the future- just not for at least 2 or 3 years!
maybe I can get them to give me an epidural at 36 weeks and just keep it topped up till birth.
Zara, so happy to hear your little one is getting better! you must be exhausted.

littleLondon has been ravenous all day. I think she's doing that growth spurt supply increase thing. my tits are broken. if I wasn't already using a nipple shield I think my nips would have fallen off.
hope everyone has a restful night.

Zara1984 Wed 12-Dec-12 21:46:09

Thanks londonmrs! Actually got about 6 hours sleep last night (in two 3 hour stretches) so not too bad. Definitely helps having our own room and a bed & bathroom for me!

grin at epidural at 36 weeks. I know many women get by without one but my god it was essential for me. I don't care if I may have a lower pain threshold than others (as DMIL and DH "helpfully" commented) I have never felt such horrific pain in my life.

If I don't have a ECS with my next baby I am going to write a birth plan. This is what it will say: "EPIDURAL. Fucking ASAP. Collar the fucking anaethestist when I call ahead to say I'm coming in. And a proper high-dose one too, not any of this still-feel-enough-to-push-and-tear bollocks. And if any well-meaning midwife fucks around with me and tries to stall me from getting one I will bludgeon him or her with a pair of forceps."

DMIL's sister had her kids in the late 50s/early 60s where they put you in "twilight sleep" for labour and delivery so you don't remember anything (a la Betty Draper in Mad Men). Sounds fucking MARVELLOUS if you ask me...

OctoberOctober Wed 12-Dec-12 21:47:02

zara glad to hear Tom is doing much better, you must be exhausted but so relieved.

Good to hear the poo report on Aptamil, have switched to that today funnily enough. Will be third brand we've used so I'm not expecting anything massively different but hoping it might help him poo a bit more frequently. I'm sure I've asked this before but how regular is Tom? Once every 2-3 days here, poor thing, although hv assures me this is normal. blush

Londonmrss Wed 12-Dec-12 22:40:17

Zara, I would have punched anyone who commented on my pain threshold. I later discovered that a midwife had said something similar to my OH. no one has the right to make a judgement about someone else's pain.
thinking about it, I remember thinking how awful and agonising and excruciating the laboring was- but I can't actually remember what the pain felt like if you see what I mean. I remember where it was and what it was in an academic way, but not actually how it felt. an evolutionary way of making me think it wasn't as bad as it was maybe?
Zara, just noticed the weight of your little one- that's brilliant! he's obviously thriving!
I wonder where / how cwest, shellwedance, fjord and the others who don't seem to post here are. if you're lurking, hope all its well with you.

Twobuttonsaway Wed 12-Dec-12 22:42:03

Quick post from me (must go to sleep!). Just to reassure the fellow "control freaks" that it is MUCH less stressful/difficult/worrying second time around!! wink

I have a friend who is a midwife who says the mums who find it toughest are career girls - project managers, accountants and lawyers because of the strong need for order and control!

Hang in there, it definitely gets easier! Don't write off no 2 yet! smile

hufflepuffle Wed 12-Dec-12 22:49:43

Thanks Two! Had I been able to take a course , make some notes, follow a schedule and write it all up, this motherhood lark would be easier!!! Glad in not alone. Career-easy peasy!!!

Twobuttonsaway Wed 12-Dec-12 22:58:20

huffle - thought you might like my recollection of work post mat leave last time..... Hot cups of tea, not having to share/miss meals, clean, non-mumsy clothing, smelling of perfume not regurgitated milk, colleagues were well behaved enough not to get overtired and have tantrums! That said, was always lovely to get back to DS1, and now I'm back for a year - tea is cold again, sick on shoulder, but worth it wink

Hilarious birth plan, Zara! grin I saw that episode of Mad Men, I wonder what drug they used?
So glad Tom's feeling better and you can go home, you must be so relieved. Sounds like you had great care though.

London, my DS usually sleeps quite a lot during the day, so when he's awake and happy I try to interact. Like Beebele we have face time - chatting, singing, smiling. But I have no qualms shoving him on the baby gym if I need to watch do something.

My news...
DS slept for over 7 hours straight last night! shock Had a quick sleepy feed, then went back to sleep for another 2 hours.
I didn't sleep for all of it because I went to bed later, and then I woke up in the early hours realised he'd slept through and proceeded to worry about him for an hour or so!confused
Think he's fine though - temp's normal and making up for lost time feeding well this morning.
I wonder how it'll affect his naps today?

lisbethsopposite Wed 12-Dec-12 23:22:18

Llivvy don't be afraid to go again . It sounds like you have a demanding baby. I've heard mum's comment that no.3 was their hardest. Would you be likely to have 2 toughies? hmm Paul was easy. Feed and sleep, very little crying.
Also i would recommend you continue whatever childcare arrangements you have for then toddler or at least a few hrs with playgroup .

squidkid Thu 13-Dec-12 05:14:07

First night without baby... felt so crap with cold that boyfriend sent me to bed and is sleeping with her in spare room
I know lots of you do this but I haven't slept apart from boyfriend at all, in pregnancy or newborn stage!
So did i enjoy uninterrupted sleep?... no, been waking up to cough and spluter all night, boo. Glad I'm not disturbing them though
My awesome baby sleeps through to 5am, so here i am, expressing off my massive boob! oh the glamour. she'll prob wake shortly.
Got mates over for birthday dinner tonight, just want to inhale steam and sleep! normally not that bothered by colds...
missing my running, didn;t realise how much that helped my mood. yesterday i was all, " i'm a crap mum ", "baby hates me because she's crying", "i'm doing all this exercise and still fat", etc

squidkid Thu 13-Dec-12 05:24:06

-3 outside this morning... brrr.... don't want to leave the flat!

squidkid Thu 13-Dec-12 06:03:59

Still awaiting baby... now what? Mum-panic going into overdrive! I haven't seen her since 8pm! What has he done with her? Why hasn't she woken up? Is she crying and is he ignoring her and sleeping through it? Wouldn't I be able to hear that from here? Should I go and wake her up? What sort of idiot wakes up a sleeping baby?

Is it possible she doesn't actually need feeding at 5am every day it's just I'm awake at that time and she's thrashing around so I just feed her because I'm anxious about how long it's been? side point: why am I the sort of loser who goes to bed at 9 and wakes up at 4 or 5, no wonder I have no life if she doesn't actually need feeding at 5 but her thrashing around makes me fret should I put her to sleep in another room? Won't she die of SIDS if I do that?



hufflepuffle Thu 13-Dec-12 07:26:59

I'm thinking other room Squid when we move as I'll be going back to work. But DH says not til he at least 6mths....... He is more a rule followers than me!! Might hav mummy in other room then..... I too used to lift too early due to thrashing. Said thrashing can last 1.5 hrs!!!

DS has his injections at 9.00. He has v v v uncharacteristically woken bloody twice in the bloody night to feed. Not had that since about 4 weeks. I am feckin exhausted. Grrr... Wonder if he knows what is coming?! He is full of bloody wind and it wakes him. Then he thinks he needs fed and wint settle til he is.

Anyone else's baby think waking automatically means feeding?? Will he grow out of this? Particularly annoying for mini daytime naps where might feed, sleep half hr then wake.

Must go get dressed and put face on. No slummy mummy look allowed today!

Londonmrss Thu 13-Dec-12 08:31:18

haha huffle it's difficult to sympathize when we're still up at least twice and usually more every night! hope jabs are ok.
so... we had sex for the first time last night. it was ok... I guess. it felt different down there. I was a bit paranoid about it maybe hurting so I didn't really let go enough to really enjoy it. I know it still all works because I've had orgasms during other stuff we've done, but I was nowhere near this time. I was really left with the feeling that my body still feels like it's not my own, it's unfamiliar. anyone else feel like this? I hope it passes soon. I want to enjoy my body again. bit depressed about it really.

Zara1984 Thu 13-Dec-12 08:43:12

october he usually goes twice daily but can easily be one giant one a day. I too was told that as long as they're soft, every 2-3 days is fine!

Poor DS is still all clogged up sad but it's good to be home. Glad they didn't tell me until this morning he got to 39.3... That sounds really high for a little baby? So grateful to amazing doctors.

Midgetm Thu 13-Dec-12 08:45:12

Running on to all those doubting their ability/desire to have number 2. First al all you are crazy to even think these thoughts so soon. grin.

I honestly thought having another baby would kill me after my experience with DD. I was in hospital for 2 weeks. So weak I couldn't lift my baby and had a pretty massive blood transfusion after literally making a room look like a scene from Carrie. Anyway. I had number 2 and it was fucking awful too but in a different way--and then said to DH 'never again'. Just a couple of days ago I said to DH ' wouldn't be the end of the world to have 3 (I am in my forties FFS- I'd be like an over bred Staffordshire bull terrier)). Anyway what I am trying I say is we have some kind of Jedi mind tricks played on us about labour. To not repeat the pain, Means also not repeating the wonderful joy the little fuckers bring and joy always triumphs over pain --just doesn't feel like it when sleep deprived. oh and cherry taking lecithin daily prevents blocked ducts allegedly - I am taking it now as don't want repeated bastard mastitis and blocked ducts again. Huge waves to all and will catch up properly soon - Christmas has taken me over already and master midge doing an explosive pooh grin

Midgetm Thu 13-Dec-12 08:46:03

I got a bit carries away with the strike through there - sleep deprivation and dumbness

Elpis Thu 13-Dec-12 09:04:37

Please unstrike through those parts of midgetm's message. They are the words of a sane and astute woman.

Honeycantthinkofanxmasnickname Thu 13-Dec-12 09:09:27

Thank you for reassurance - he doesn't seem to have been affected so will stop worrying and find something new to worry about by the end of the day

london it does get better and feel more like it used to. We've been having sex since 3 weeks and has started getting better the past week or so. Still sometimes feels different- not painful but tighter, but generally feels back to pre-baby!

Does anyone else have wonky boobs?

Honeycantthinkofanxmasnickname Thu 13-Dec-12 09:09:54

I mean from a feedin perspective,
Not just in general!

FirstTimeForEverything Thu 13-Dec-12 09:57:23

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

YompingJo Thu 13-Dec-12 10:15:50

Mine are a bit wonky anyway but as I am block feeding I regularly have one comedy massive boob.grin

First evening away from baby tonight. Gulp. Got tickets to see Alan Davies and throw my knickers at him. Have been undecided about going but am being firm with myself. It will do me good and baby will be fine. Can't bear the thought of her needing me for comfort and me not being there, but being rational about it, it's only 3hrs max, I am leaving DH expressed milk to feed her with a syringe or from a cup (bottle feeding not an option as bf still problematic for her) and he can put her in sling or take her for a drive. Even if she does cry for a bit it's not going to do her any long term damage and it's only a one off. Right?

Londonmrss Thu 13-Dec-12 10:36:09

of course yomping! it's healthy to have the odd few hours apart!
have you tried finger feeding? you tape a tiny tube to your little finger and then they suckle on that- it's the same jaw action as breastfeeding so shouldn't cause any problems. you can get the tubes from a midwife or bf counsellor.

squidkid Thu 13-Dec-12 11:06:43

I have spent the morning having a meltdown about stupid trivial shit like the fact I feel rough as fuck and have cancelled my best mates (inc jess's godfather) coming over for my birthday tonight. Then I whinged so much about my size/nothing to wear for meal out on saturday boyfriend got fed up and demanded to weigh me, which i hadn't done since 40 weeks, I guess he thought I would be surprised and pleased, but i weighed loads more than either of us thought, still more than 1.5 st over pre-preg weight and only a st less than 40 weeks, which coupled with the daily running i've been doing for 6 weeks now and being super careful what i eat and exclusively breastfeeding, made me cry loads. like a stupid girl.

I know i have no right to be upset about any of this, but can't stpo crying and hate myself. I feel like I have tried so hard and totally failed and will be like this forever. And i hate myself for even caring.

Jess is ill too and is dealing with it much better than me.

hufflepuffle Thu 13-Dec-12 11:19:41

Right Yomping! Perfectly right! Enjoy yourself, you deserve it!

Jabs fine. 2 big screeches, totally new sound but settled on mummy's shoulder. Then we went out for breakfast!!! Yay!!!! First meal out!!!! Mummy grinning ear to ear over her sausages. I'm sure I looked a bit demented.......

Hope little man has ok day. So far so good post- jabs.

WantAnOrange Thu 13-Dec-12 11:40:12

Arty slept through the night! shock

That is all. grin

hufflepuffle Thu 13-Dec-12 11:53:45

Yay for night sleepers Cherry & Wantan!!!!! Have I swapped my baby with yours???!!! No seriously, that is great!! May it continue!! And sorry Londonm, I always feel bad commenting on poor sleep when I know it is par for the course for so many. blush

We have just had 2 minutes of constant stinky farts follows by explosive poos!!! Honestly, the farts were like a sketch show, they would hav made us a fortune on You've been framed...... But a much much much happier baby!!! Fart away my precious little dude!!!

Must be something in the air Wantan, DS did too! Congratulations, hope it's a sign of things to come.

Of course it won't Yomping. Have great time, I'm v jealous.

Oh Squid, please don't do this to yourself. I'm sure you look amazing. Treat yourself to some new clothes, even if you don't plan to stay this size. It made me feel so much better. You really don't have to be thinner to look and feel great.
Are you feverish? On the rare occasions I've had a fever, I've also gone a bit...loopy. (Not saying you're loopy of course grin)

hufflepuffle Thu 13-Dec-12 12:00:07

Midget thank you for your wise words. Know we are being nobbers talking about DC2 when DC1 barely focussing his eyes........! Lol at over bred staffy.......shock

First cannot believe you home from hospital so soon!! You are amazing!! Birth similar to mine and I was bed bound with transfusions for 2 days, hospital 5 days total and was completely and utterly weak and pathetic!!!! Do blame a lot on 2 days pre labour without sleep and hours of fruitless pushing, but still........ You make me feel like a woos!! Much praise to you!!!

If you have Huffle, I'm keeping him! grin
Hope you enjoyed your breakfast, sounds lovely.

hufflepuffle Thu 13-Dec-12 12:04:06

Squid don't panic. I'm quite sure you look great. I too am gaining weight again, tho for me I bloody need to. Perhaps we go up in weight again to help us with BF energy stores? Go out and get some new lovely clothes for the interim, you will feel better. My torso is most difference. Old bras were 32. I need 36 for comfort. Find this odd.

Not being flippant but please try not to be too hard on yourself. X

hufflepuffle Thu 13-Dec-12 12:11:55

Actually DC1 focusses rather well! Follows me round room. Wish I could remember more from vision development at uni, but am intrigued by how well he does seem to see, it is changing so quickly!

londonlivvy Thu 13-Dec-12 12:47:04

Oh squid. Hugs. Hugs. Hugs. Sounds like your evil cold has really taken your mojo away. You've been such a cheerleader for everyone else and I for one have really needed that, and appreciated it.

On the weight thing, for starters, I wouldn't mind betting that your boobs are bigger, so that accounts for some of it. And I'm told that breastfeeding needs you to have some fat, so folk often can't lose the last amount until they stop breastfeeding. Also, most importantly, your body is doing a terrific job of feeding jess and helping her grow. You are exercising and doing all the right things, so it will come good. This too shall pass.

Perhaps a good film and a snuggle and snooze on the sofa would help? And hopefully you can make like the queen and have an official birthday later.

londonlivvy Thu 13-Dec-12 12:50:35

Omg cherry and wantan. So jealous. We had two waking in the night, she's barely slept all morning and is a screamy bundle of overtiredness. I don't know what to do with her. Sleep goddammit, you will feel better, I promise. Sigh.

Huffle, the week before last something seemed to click into place with DS and he seemingly developed over night, interacting more etc. I'm sure it was his vision. I think I read somewhere that at around 5 weeks their eyes start focussing together or something...

Livvy, when DS is overtired it's almost like I have to "break" him (sounds horrible when I put it like that) - I shush and rock through all his crying and struggling, on and on even when it looks like its not going to work, not changing the position or the method, then suddenly he gives up and falls asleep. But you've probably tried that...
Anyway we'll see what tonight brings. He's been down for about 2 hours, but I'm only just getting into bed now.

huffle lots of farts here too but no pooo!! this morning she did one and swear to god, it sounded like a grown man's fart. i had my hearing aid off and everything but i still heard it!! was tempted to blame DP for it but it vibrated all over my stomach- it was definately her!!!
squid i hope you feel better soon. being ill is shit- as soon as you feel better organise yourself a nice day and have that as your birthday instead smile dont feel crap about not being back to pre-pregs weight!! its only been 10/11 weeks hasnt it? you have done so amazingly well to be out and about running god im so lazy already- i think you are a superhero!! bear hugs for you xxxx

crazypaving Thu 13-Dec-12 15:01:40

squid big hug and lots of sympathy. I'm in sort of the same boat. minus your willpower and exercise. how old is Jess? about 10 weeks? jeez girl give yourself a break, seriously! these things take time and your body is doing what it needs to primarily for your baby. listen to your boy, forget the stupid scales and be kind to yourself. you're run down, don't stress.

Yomping have a wonderful guilt free night out.

sorry on brand new phone here and struggling a bit. you should see some of the predictive typos that are being painstakingly deleted! this is hard work.

we are officially Maison snot and it officially sucks. ds2 is so loud at night, snoring. and coughing and snuffling about it's sodd ing impossible to sleep. yawn. is it the weekend yet? sad

got our doctor check tomorrow to see if his weight is still dropping and to have an update on his chest. fingers crossed.

on the debate about more children, yeah maybe put that on the back burner for a few months??! I am somehow managing despite an absolutely horrific time with pnd with ds1. I'd always wanted 3 but I think I'm going to have to admit defeat at 2, and the relief that thought gives me is very telling. I know my limits, I guess.

guess who's awake again, poor snotty thing. sigh.

Angelico Thu 13-Dec-12 16:07:26

Hey peeps! Proper catch up later but lesson of the day: never go into the cheap card shop with a buggy 2 weeks before Christmas. It was like robot wars in there, only with buggies... confused

YompingJo Thu 13-Dec-12 16:09:28

Squid, I am officially slapping you round the face with a wet muslin nappy kipper. Behave yourself woman! It took 9 months for your body to build the supplies you needed to nourish and feed a baby. You cannot expect most of it to simply melt away in 10 weeks. You are (as usual) being too hard on yourself (I should know!). Give it time and give your boyfriend a prod somewhere tender from me idiot man. And maybe go back and read almost any of the things you have told me in response to my own meltdowns, they are exactly the sort of things you need to hear right now but you write them much more eloquently than I could

Or, if you would prefer the gently gently response: have a hug and some thanks, poor girl, I bet you are feeling rotten with the cold and then the weight thing has hit you harder than it otherwise would. You are brave for weighing yourself at all, I haven't dared.

We took Alice swimming for the first time today, in her hot pink (and massive) wetsuit. She liked it some of the time, wasn't sure some of the time and grizzled a bit, but overall it wasn't too traumatic! We are a bit skanky and don't bath her much so she hasn't had that much time in water yet, so she did really well. Going to make it a weekly thing. She has been zonked out, apart from feeding, ever since (4 hrs and counting). Hmm... <Yomping wonders how late the gym stays open whether Alice could be taken there for a swim in the evenings when she is all grizzly>

feelings about birth - similar to Orenishii, still feel that I let myself down (I know, I know, too hard on myself right?) but overall having heard lots of far more traumatic birth stories, feel a bit crap for making such a fuss about mine. I wrote a long birth story out intending to stick it on here for catharsis but never did as I felt like I was being pathetic compared to some of you hardcore nutters who went through much more trauma and took it all in your stride! I want another child, definitely, maybe 2 more but think I'm too old to have 2 more unless it's twins. I think second time round is highly likely to be... if not easier, certainly shorter and for me that will be easier because the length of time everything took, and the corresponding strain on my back, was one of the things that contributed to my birth being so hard. I'd still go for a homebirth with a birthing pool next time and I'd request G&A from the start.

Christmas - heading to deepest darkest suburb of London on Xmas day for a few hours with my folks and family, many of whom have not yet met Alice. Simultaneously looking forward to it and dreading it. Want to show her off, as obviously she is amazing pfb syndrome but equally think it will be very full on and possibly a bit much for her me! DH and I , who are not very sentimental, are seriously debating whether to bother buying Alice a present, partly because she will get loads from others but mainly because, well, she won't have a clue what is going on! So who would we actually be doing it for? Are we cool, convention-bucking, sensible people, or are we just total humbugs?

hufflepuffle Thu 13-Dec-12 17:38:03

I hav a toothache. Months of nausea and now slovenliness means teeth neglected. V bad girl . Apt on Tuesday. Likely need a filling sad

Anyone kno of I'll be able to hav local anaesthetic injection with BF???

Elpis Thu 13-Dec-12 17:45:48

hufflepuffle Local anaesthetic no problem.

Btw, there's a free app called LactMed that lets you search for medications to see if they're safe for bf. Most things are!

Elpis Thu 13-Dec-12 18:09:53


Like Yomping said. But also: I too didn't lose much weight until DD was 6mo, and it seems to be the same this time. The milk you make changes as they get older and I suspect that has a lot to do with it. Don't be hard on yourself. I ended up thinner than I ever was pre-baby (and that was before I was ill last year).

hufflepuffle Thu 13-Dec-12 18:17:04

Thank you Elpis. You are lovely and helpful as ever!!

Elpis Thu 13-Dec-12 21:08:18

Whenever I wonder if I'm eating too much, I remind myself that DS put on 170g in six days despite his revolting abscess. That's nearly 30g a day. And he still needs to produce several sodden nappies and shoot crap across the bathroom with the sheer force of his explosive farts. On top of that he needs energy to breathe, grunt, flail, swipe toys, mither and generate huge amounts of sulphurous gases. No wonder I need a lot of toast and pudding.

Londonmrss Thu 13-Dec-12 22:17:51

I like your thinking Elpis

That's perfect Elpis! grin
You should get that ^^ exact quote made into fridge magnets so we can all stick one on our fridge to remind ourselves.
How is DS and his abscess? Hope it's healing well.

hufflepuffle Thu 13-Dec-12 22:44:13

Hear, hear Elpis!

hufflepuffle Thu 13-Dec-12 23:15:51

Quick question for all you 2nd timers on BF. In time do breasts stop so obviously filling? Coming up to feeding time they can be v full and swollen. Does that keep happening? Will I go up and down 4 cup sizes continually??! Just wondering!

Just expressed 5oz as DS did not feed as greedily as normal earlier. Actually think he is settling a bit and not being as greedy this past few days. Hoping me starting to express again doesn't cause over supply! Apparently with thrush you can actually express but only use now whilst still treating, no freezing. Will be good to get him familiar with bottle again.

I shall leave that question in the ether. DS asleep so I should be too!

I forgot to say thanks for the info, Midget.
I've never heard of that and I doubt very much I'd be able to get hold of any here. Hope it works for you!

Angelico Fri 14-Dec-12 00:55:27

Urgh. Planned to catch up but have just spent hours writing the last baby gift thank you cards AND all the bloody Xmas cards AND wrapped presents AND tidied up AND packed Bean's bag for going away ON on Sat.

Also experimentally put Bean down to sleep at 10 rather than her usual midnight. This could all backfire horribly with her waking at 03:00 and not sleeping the rest of the night...

hufflepuffle Fri 14-Dec-12 05:35:57

Can anyone suggest a lighter weight moisturiser for nipples which is not like lansinoh? So bloody sick of lansinoh. Wear pads so as does not stain bras. Still using thrush cream but hopefully nearly there. So hav had break from the sticky stuff and really can't be arsed with it! Can't go with nothing tho as nips v dry.

I'm all questions and no help at the mo!!


YompingJo Fri 14-Dec-12 06:16:00

huffle try paw paw (papaya) cream.smells lovely too.

hufflepuffle Fri 14-Dec-12 07:52:43

Hey Yomping How did little swimmer sleep?! I did buy that last time you mentioned. It is nice! But I cannot find a definitive answer anywhere as to whether it is ok for baby to ingest. At this stage I am sick sore and tired of washing off thrush cream before every feed and I look forward to just whipping them out on demand again!! Given his new issues with wind I want to be totally happy he can feed on whatever I use.

Have been using papaya stuff on my dry lips! Tis lovely!

I am so susceptible to suggestions. Wonder how many things we hav bought on reccommendations here?? Biggest case on point being the bodysilk bras?!

hufflepuffle Fri 14-Dec-12 08:04:15

Angelico to date I hav a list of 70 thank you cards to do and I am not even contemplating Christmas cards outside of immediate family! Want to order lovely picture cards from photobox for thank yous but keep missing promos! Hav not even bought all pressies, never mind wrap!!! Good on you girl!!!

Was about to ask where u going on Sat but think you said u going to visit home? Where do family live? South of Ireland? If so you will drive right past my house as we live off main road!

Wondering how your early night went? We did gradually move bedtime from 1,30 to 10.30 when we started a bedtime routine. Further movement has only resulted in random wakenings!! I am in awe of babies already in bed for 8ish!

Londonmrss Fri 14-Dec-12 08:52:10

is it good though to get a baby on beef easily? assuming that the first sleep is the longest of the might? isn't it better for them to sleep say midnight to 5am rather than 8pm- 3pm? we tend to dobig feed at 9pm, then midnight, then 3 then 5 or 6. Whether she's in bed by 8pm our not- doesn't make much difference to the schedule!

Londonmrss Fri 14-Dec-12 08:53:26

grin on beef easily! I meant in bed early. sleep deprivation plus predictive text is not working for me

Angelico Fri 14-Dec-12 08:57:49

<Exhausted wave> And I was right to worry... She woke at 03:00 bang on target after her 5 hours, then woke at 7, then 08:30. Would have been fine if I hadn't gone to bed at 01:00... Bedtime returns to midnight tonight! DH and I are night owls and the midnight bedtime was working fine so moral is if it ain't broke don't fix it!

Huffle we got cards from Snapfish smile They are lovely but were quite dear and I ordered 60 but then we ran out. So generic ones for the last few people. And we are visiting friends ON as as sort of trial run for the family visits at Xmas...

FirstTimeForEverything Fri 14-Dec-12 09:02:20

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

hufflepuffle Fri 14-Dec-12 09:06:15

I love predictive slips London!! Was really studying that to work it out!!!!

I know what u mean, despite me trying I do agree!! We hav bath at 9 or 9.30 and take it from there. That sleep is then the long sleep and my earlier attempts got me up at 2am so I forgot about trying that more!!

My own get up time now is anywhere from 5-7 and I am getting used to it. If only his day sleep had some kind of pattern I'd happily sleep during day!

I am trying very hard to go with baby led schedule and gently try to encourage him to follow a pattern cos I'm acutely aware that my return to work will come very soon and we will all find it very hard.

Toothache toothache toothache!! Lah lah lah, try to distract self! Apt not until Tuesday!! May have had a hideous labour and 8 weeks of painful BF but my tooth hurts and I want to cry!!!!!!

OctoberOctober Fri 14-Dec-12 09:50:14

huffle in my short lived attempt at bf I found Asda nipple cream surprisingly good and a counter to the axle grease that is Lansinoh. Dp now using it as hand cream and almost took in to work but thought better of whipping it out at desk!

Nearly 7 hours again last night! I could get used to this grin but trying not to get too excited yet.

I know what you mean London, although the length of sleep was great, it was from 8pm - 3am confused and like Angelico I'm a night owl.
To be fair though, he's just having a quick feed then going back for another couple of hours. I'm getting used to the early mornings too, Huffle.
The problem is, evenings are his whingiest time - won't go in the chair or on the mat, doesn't want be cuddled etc. and this is when I've had enough of him I want to get dinner ready and have quiet time with DH.
So I don't know what to do. I think at the moment I'm not going to mess with it as this seems to be when he naturally goes down without much settling.
Listen to me, we've only been in this routine for 3 days!

She sounds lovely FirstTime, DS is just 7weeks, so not quite there yet.
I'd like to get some toys for him, what do people recommend?

crazypaving Fri 14-Dec-12 10:23:26

ds2 just sneezed and fired a long stream of snot down the full length of his arm.

life is good hmm hmm hmm

hufflepuffle Fri 14-Dec-12 10:27:42

Cherry our most stressful time was evening. The introduction of nightly bath in tummy tub changed that considerably. I know you bath early in the day but for us it worked really well to calm him. Seemed to give him that big long stretch of sleep shortly after too. Delighted you got another big sleep for you. It really is a turning point in how you feel in yourself I think.

FirstTimeForEverything Fri 14-Dec-12 10:27:48

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

hufflepuffle Fri 14-Dec-12 10:30:03

Thank you October. I've no Asda close by. Grrrr. Might just try Boots own brand cream or something. Yes, axle grease indeed!!!!!! And it is great for cracked nose caused by colds!!

WantAnOrange Fri 14-Dec-12 10:56:37

Firsttimeforeverything DD was born 1st Oct and making lovely little sounds and laughing. She'll practice conversation too, so I'll speak then stop a minute, then she speaks then waits for my turn. It's great!

squidkid Fri 14-Dec-12 11:24:38

It's my birthday today, and I've been sat up all night coughing and blowing my nose and trying to clear my blocked ears, and I'm still really really low about my weight, and I'm even low that I'm low about my weight because I know it's superficial and pathetic, and I think I'm going to have to cancel the spa tomorrow that I've been carefully expressing milk and arranging babysitter for sad

Boyfriend is so so so so fed up with me and I can't stop crying, am a terrible mum right now
I've been doing so well recently and trying so hard and I have no idea why I've crashed, well mad at myself. rubbish.

Lizzietow Fri 14-Dec-12 11:33:38

Jealous of you lot getting 7 hours stretches of sleep! Most we've done at 8 weeks is still 4 1/2 hours. Still- she feeds then goes back to sleep.

Lizzietow Fri 14-Dec-12 11:35:14

squid I had a total meltdown last week, and ended up taking both kids and going to the MILs for the night. But this week I feel much better. It's hard work and the sleep deprivation gets to you. A cold also is horrid! I can feel one coming on too so on the vit C and Vicks first defence!

Really think you should go for your spa thing!

Lizzietow Fri 14-Dec-12 11:37:32

Ps for those formula feeding, how many ounces and how often does your little one take?

DD2 is still on 4 oz bottles and tends to be every 3 hours (apart from at night- see earlier post about 4 1/2 hr stretches)

crazypaving Fri 14-Dec-12 11:53:49

squid remember this too shall pass. you'll be happier when you're feeling less ill. poor you on your birthday sad Happy Birthday and wine thanks thanks thanks thanks wine

don't cancel the spa yet. see how you feel. can your mum come back to help you while you're feeling low like this? it's times like this family is for. big hug again, you poor thing x

hufflepuffle Fri 14-Dec-12 11:55:39

The phrase Happy Birthday may seem unlikely Squid but it is what I wish you anyhow!!!! Sincerely hope u cheer up a bit and really hope u get to your spa tomorrow cos that would certainly make u feel better. Go and wiggle some smiles from Jess, some unconditional love can only help!!

Chin up

Londonmrss Fri 14-Dec-12 12:23:10

birthday hugs squid. you will feel better. as usual, you are being really hard on yourself.
I have similar body hang ups at the mo- I just don't feel good about myself but I don't really have time to exercise because when I do, I do it obsessively.

I think out bodies will only become ours again one we stop breastfeeding. so if you can, try and see it like you did when you were pregnant- your body is amazing because it is sustaining a little life.
by the way, I remember you posting photos of yourself heavily pregnant and you were so slim! all bump! so I'm betting you're still really slim but the tiredness and illness is distorting your view of yourself.
me though? I'm still in maternity trousers at 7 weeks and I daren't go near the scales.

Londonmrss Fri 14-Dec-12 12:28:18

auburn to be really pissed off? it was my office xmas party last night where they invite all current staff plus anyone who's worked there this year. I know because last year I organised it.
this year they didn't invite me. even though I officially still work there and am on maternity leave till next Oct. I found out when people stated posting photos on facebook today. didn't think they liked me. guess now I know. bastards.

Londonmrss Fri 14-Dec-12 12:28:45

cock. I meant aibu?

FirstTimeForEverything Fri 14-Dec-12 12:32:49

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FirstTimeForEverything Fri 14-Dec-12 12:38:01

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

crazypaving Fri 14-Dec-12 12:44:26

LondonMrs boo how unnecessarily unpleasant sad

squid meant to say that after my disastrous birthday a couple of weeks ago I decided I'll be doing a half birthday in may. you should do the same! things will be really different by then!

Happy Birthday Squid!winethanks
Sorry you're feeling so shit, I know you we're really looking forward to it. A joint half birthday with Crazy is a great idea!
I'm sure your boyfriend is not fed up with you as such, probably more with not being able to fix you.
Definitely like what London said about seeing breast feeding as an extension of pregnancy and not worrying about our bodies til we've finished.

I've been thinking about moving the bath Huffle, but he takes a nice long nap after his morning one which I don't want to lose. Will see how we get on over the next few days. He's just gone down an hour later than last night, which is good. Probably makes more sense for me to just go to bed earlier!

FirstTime, we have loads of comforters but no actual toys. I wonder if the Lamaze one is the one everyone else said they had?

YANBU London, that's just rude. Even if you think someone can't come, they should still be invited. I'm sure it wasn't deliberate though - some idiot probably just forgot.

Elpis Fri 14-Dec-12 14:55:17


Yes, boobs don't fill up so much after a little while. Babies take in more at each feed after a while, and need to feed less frequently. When they start solids your milk becomes richer because it doesn't have to supply all their fluid any longer. You find you're not bothering with breast pads any more. Hope that helps. x

Elpis Fri 14-Dec-12 14:57:15


That was rude. But people do tend to assume you can't go out in the evening with a small baby. I try to confound them.

FirstTimeForEverything Fri 14-Dec-12 15:08:04

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

crazypaving Fri 14-Dec-12 16:18:57

cherry [[ http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B0000A1Z3X/ref=mp_s_a_1?qid=1355501368&sr=8-1&pi=SL75 these]] are popular round where I live and my ds1 loved his

crazypaving Fri 14-Dec-12 16:20:01

oh bugger can't do links from phone these

hufflepuffle Fri 14-Dec-12 16:32:09

Elpis thank you for reply! That is very helpful. Really should google these things but sometimes hard to know what to google!!! I hav other queries about how things change but I am def not going to plague you all with questions! I shall keep googling!!

Yes folks, that Lamaze Freddy Firefly is the one we all seem to have. I got in Tesco. It has a lot going on!!! It is really lovely. Cool price on Amazon there.

I ordered a Taggie blanket today for Christmas.

Just bought a 4ft fibre optic type Christmas tree and blue decorations.......I refuse to be a grinch!!!!! My usual lovely red and purple decorations and big full tree are all in attic and the thought of it makes me flake so I hav just wasted spent £50 I can ill afford!! And I'd normally run a mile from blue decorations but seeing as is my little boy's first Christmas..! what a waste of money that would half buy his bloody cot

Was at parents for few hours. Dad v good at making DS smile and nearly laugh!! Followed however by a mega high pitch screeching fit!!!! Over stimulation methinks. And they wonder why no babysitting yet, they will stop asking for a while now!!!!

hufflepuffle Fri 14-Dec-12 16:35:19

Londonmrs yes, just bloody rude. I'd be raging. Even tho not a mission of me going anywhere!! But I'm sure we are all over reacting as I always do and someone misguidedly thought you would not want to be going out due to being blissfully at home with your little bundle of joy...... confused

crazypaving Fri 14-Dec-12 16:45:16

huffle grin at blissfully at home with bundle of joy grin

crazypaving Fri 14-Dec-12 16:59:19

back from doctor where nothing quite went as I'd hoped.

pectus excavatum: he needs to be monitored regularly to assess what impact it's having on him and whether he'll need treatment.

we've also got a referral for his tongue tie as he's dropped further down the centiles in just 2 weeks.

overall feeling a bit sad about the whole thing. have read up a bit on pectus excavatum and am worried about the impact it'll have both on his physical and psychological wellbeing. bit of a surprise after super robust ds1. I know it's not massive in the grand scheme of things but still sad

squidkid Fri 14-Dec-12 18:15:23

So sorry guys and thanks for being lovely. I normally avoid internet when this bloody useless. (Probably why I seem irritatingly chipper a lot, I mostly go quiet when struggling!!!)

Have forced myself to cheer up, had glass of prosecco with my brother and cold a bit better - weight a non-problem shut up squid you can keep exercising and getting fit and your health is what matters, the numbers are stupid and irrelevant - going to go to spa tomorrow after all and best possible news - my friend Jess (the midwife, who was at my birth) can come too! She has had a bad few months so we need to look after each other. And me and brother and boyfriend and Jess are going out for a meal. Yes we are. Even though I can't taste anything.

Everything ok, really really sorry for first world problems...

BoraBora Fri 14-Dec-12 18:27:46

I'm sorry to hear you didn't get the outcome you'd hoped for crazypaving. Still, it's very early days.

That really sucks London I'd be gutted.
I posted this earlier in chat but it'd be helpful to hear from people with DCs of a similar age. We are co-sleeping. DD is with me at all times - doesn't ever sleep alone and will scream the house down if left. Due to the fact that we've always had a difficult sex life I'm really keen to start trying sex again (no sex at all during pregnancy). Is anyone in a similar co-sleeping clingy baby situation that could advise, or any suggestions??

BoraBora Fri 14-Dec-12 18:29:11

Glad you've got a good support networks squid, and don't apologise. Feeling low is not a first world problem.

BoraBora Fri 14-Dec-12 18:31:10

It's really interesting reading about people's adventures (wink) with sleep. DD feeds at midnight, 3ish and 5 ish and then probably again at 7 ish. I actually considered her to be quite a good sleeper as because she sleeps with me and goes back to sleep, I don't feel too tired.

crazypaving Fri 14-Dec-12 19:13:08

at what point do you take a 10 week old baby to hospital? ds2 hasn't fed properly since about 9.30am, although he had tiny feeds at 1.30pm and 3.30p.m. but they were seriously tiny. pooing frequently but that's really unusual for him, nappies quite dry otherwise. feels a bit warm but not hot. just wants to sleep. dh out on Christmas do and I'm home alone with both boys. what do I do? he just won't feed sad sad sad sad

Londonmrss Fri 14-Dec-12 19:14:51

ok I've learnt something about my baby. if she's crying and its not because she's hungry or needs changing, its often because she wants to be left alone! as soon as I put her down in her basket she relaxes add looks happy again! does it mean she's super independent or just that she wants to get away from me because she hates me?

Londonmrss Fri 14-Dec-12 19:32:47

crazy, usually I'd say to relax because in constantly worried that mine isn't getting enough and then she makes up for it the next day. my doctor reminded me that babies are little people and sometimes they're just not hungry- like all of us.
but I do think you should follow your instincts- better to get some reassuranceif you're worried.
my doc also said if lack of feeding is a problem; you know. does his skin look a good colour? if you press his skin, does it bounce back? of not, he could be a bit dehydrated. is he sleepy in a normal way, or does he not really respond even when you strip him or whatever?
hope everything's ok- I'm sue it will be, but if you're concerned, I would go to hospital. never feel ashamed of being a cautious parent. hugs.

smileyhappymummy Fri 14-Dec-12 19:52:01

crazy if you're worried take him, even if you have to drag ds1 along as well. Much better then sitting at home worried and infinitely better than him being poorly.... He is probably absolutely fine but they are still so tiny that I would have a very low threshold for seeing them.... If I were doing telephone triage as an out of hours GP I'd want to have a look at him.
Sleep here is a mess. Feeding frequently during the night, when put down starts to grunt, strain and thrash until builds up to howling. Up every hour last night at least. Feel a bit of a failure reading about everyone else's babies sleeping better, she's 10 weeks and it's just getting worse, feel I must be doing something wrong. On the up side she grins, babbles, coos and has just started grabbing st things. Love her to bits but would also love to sleep.
Have got her some bits for Christmas, mostly because otherwise dd1 would want to know why not! Dd1 wrote a letter to Santa for her asking for rattles and baby books so she is getting those, also some sleepsuits etc wrapped up for stocking, a Lamaze chime garden and one of those light. / sound projectors thats meant to be good for helping them get to sleep (hopeful look....)
squid hope cold improves and happy birthday!

Londonmrss Fri 14-Dec-12 21:00:58

smiley it sounds like we have the same baby...

Angelico Fri 14-Dec-12 21:01:32

God I am so tired today sad We will be a family of night owls, no more cocking up sleep for all of us by trying to be clever and put bean down earlier! Poor bean was well grouchy today, bit short on sleep until a good nap at teatime. Firsttime our bean is 11 weeks 3 days and also very vocal smile Her favourite thing is lying on her changing mat kicking and 'singing' as we call it whilst staring mesmerised at Xmas tree lights smile

Squid a big hug. Having a cold is shit at the best of times - you always forget between colds how truly fucking awful you can feel. On the weight thing my sister's friend BF for 9 months and lost piles of weight between 6-9 months but v little for the first 6 months. Try and go easy on yourself and hurray for your spa day, enjoy a lovely chilled out break! And Happy Birthday! smile x

And London sympathy on the work do sad Suspect people just assumed you'd be too busy with new bean but it's annoying when you could have made some preps.

Crazy try not to worry about your DS too much - know it's easier said than done but it might all come to nothing thanks On the not feeding front I would listen to Smiley as she knows her stuff! (And sympathy Smiley not sure how you are functioning on that amount of sleep!)

Mad day - dentist (sympathy Huffle), bank, post office, BFing group, lunch with friend, baby group party. Home and felt like collapsing. Also a bit pissed off with HV (who is lovely btw, couldn't be nicer) but when I weighed bean today she had 'only' gained another 2.5lbs in last 5 weeks when apparently they would like her to gain 3lbs by next week hmm FFS! She'll only be a few ounces under when she hits 12 weeks but left me feeling a bit shit, like I was starving her. And lady at BFing group yesterday (also lovely I might add) was concerned about her latch, that she was popping on and off. Thing is she is the DD of two people-watching parents, she's genetically programmed to be a nosey parker. Why would she care about feeding when she can feed any old time and there's a room full of exciting things going on that she wants to see?! grin

HV was also a bit hmm that I wasn't in a frenzy to get rid of her cradle cap - I didn't think it did any harm, just one of those things they presumably grow out of. Other than slapping on the odd bit of olive oil and using that cradle cap shampoo I've just been letting it fall off as it wants to. Is this neglectful? confused

I hate the fact that in spite of having happy, healthy, thriving bean I started doubting myself - then got cross about it. They can all fuck off to the far side of fuck, to use a MNism!

Another massive essay. Going to watch Peter Kay on Ch4 and cuddle my windy, nosey, scaley-headed bean grin Have a nice evening ladies! xo

OctoberOctober Fri 14-Dec-12 22:23:54

squid happy birthday and enjoy the spa tomorrow!

lizzie I'm ff 6-7 bottles a day of 180ml usually every 3-4hrs. Sometimes leaves a bit but easier to have more in the bottle if required. Have you increased size of feed? We started with 90ml then 120ml and 150ml and it has
Generally Increaswd the length if time between feeds.

Elpis Fri 14-Dec-12 22:24:51

You may remember that I slagged off Ewan the Sheep when DS was a newborn. Said he could bleat off, or words to that effect. All is forgiven. Ewan is a fine animal. I still find his tune rather melancholy but his white noise is magnificent.

Woolybob Fri 14-Dec-12 23:05:23

From the NHS choices website re cradle cap:

"Does it need treatment?

There is no specific treatment for cradle cap and it usually clears up on its own in time"

So you hv can jog on... wink

crazy sure bean is fine but I'd def call ooh gp to get advice, a+e likely full of sick ppl to cough on bean... hope all goes well.

Highlight of my day - digging a pooey nappy out of the bin and taking it to the gps so he can send a sample off to check for lactulose intolerance. Will this glamour never end? grin

Must dash - dh on Christmas do so on settling duty solo tonight sad

Angelico Fri 14-Dec-12 23:34:45

Elpis I believe your phrase was 'Ewan can flock off' heh heh grin I knew you'd come round! We love Ewan but actually haven't been using him much recently as I never got round to changing the batteries confused

Thank you Wooly! Bean just had her weekly bath and hair scrub so looks all flake free but it will all have dried out and reappeared by tomorrow.

Bean going mental in other room for no obvious reason. Must go rescue DH...

Angelico Fri 14-Dec-12 23:36:03

Oh and Elpis Ewan's white noise was good but simply can't compete with the majestic volume of radio static grin

Londonmrss Sat 15-Dec-12 02:39:03

babyLondon just slept for 4.5 hours! it's a miracle!

Zara1984 Sat 15-Dec-12 03:05:53

highfive londonmrs!

angelico my DS has a wee bit of cradle cap and I've never been told to do anything about it. Tell your health visitor to jog on!!

Right ok I have a post-partum bleeding query. 7 weeks tomorrow since birth and I'm still bleeding a bit. For the past 2 weeks I was spotting (light brown/apricoty colour, enough for just a panty liner) but the past two days I've had slightly, just slightly heavier bleeding with fresh blood. I check internally just now and there is definitely bright red blood. Just a wee bit mixed with clear discharge, if that makes sense. Had some slight aches/uterine cramps.

Is this anything to be worried about or is it my period given that I'm FF???

I'm going to the GP on Monday to get DS checked since hospital - can I leave it till then or should I get it checked more urgently?

hufflepuffle Sat 15-Dec-12 05:26:05

Yay Londinmrs!!!!! Great stuff!! Long may it continue!!!

Zara if was me I'd leave til Monday but that is incorrect answer as I've been guilty of assuming the best when it comes to my own health post birth and ended up worse off!! Can you call an out if hours service there or call the lovely new hospital?

Ewan the sheep is indeed a hero and a valued member of our family. We too flung him across room as waste of money found him ineffective at first, but now he is a wonder!!! Thank you Angelico I think, for first introductions!!!

Well grey may be the new black but in this house 5am is the new 6.30. For so long DS woke at 6.30, regardless of how many night wakes. Now is 5.That is about 4 nights in a row. FFS!!!!!

hufflepuffle Sat 15-Dec-12 05:27:26

Tho Zara it really does sound like period......

Orenishii Sat 15-Dec-12 07:32:39

Yay baby London on that great stretch of sleep!

Angelico after several crying sessions over my tactless and heartless community MW's and the HV's visits, I've decided to just smile and nod and go through the motions with them but not pay them any mind. I don't think they are known for their sensitivity!

Bora we co-sleep and also have a bedside cot from Ikea as an extension. We just sorta get frisky when DS is asleep - we've not managed actual sex yet but the intention is there grin Basically when he's asleep and I'm not dashing around like a mad person! Your daughter has very similar sleep patterns to my son, it sounds like!

Orenishii Sat 15-Dec-12 07:40:53

Oh and in an effort to make myself feel pretty - since my body looks crap and i have about two tops and one pair of (uncomfortable) jeans that fit - I decided to do my roots! I got the best natural stuff - no ammonia, no peroxide, no other nasty chemicals to possibly pass through to DS. I thought it would be pretty weak and they only had Golden Honey colour when I'm more a light ash blonde...so I left it on longer...

I'm now mostly orange sad Did a mad dash to the private high street chemist for gripe water - national shortage seems to mainly pertain to Superdrug hmm - and their many quantities of Violet Silver toning shampoo mostly used by old ladies for a purple rinse. Pray for my poor orange hair!

WantAnOrange Sat 15-Dec-12 08:17:01

Angelico DS had cradle cap until he was 3 years old! It's not harmful in any way, it's just not that pretty.

Orenishii I like orange wink.

It's my birthday today and we have christmas party tonight. DD is full of cold and very cross because her blocked nose is making it hard to feed. Sleeping through was a one off but she does seem to have dropped one feed. She slept 8pm-3.15am, then woke at 6.30am.

Zara I wouldn't worry. I've had similar and asked dr who said as long as it isn't foul smelling (nice) and very painful then it's nothing to worth about. Could be period (though I'm bf) or could just be the last bits clearing out. I think you'll be fine and double check on Monday. (Although I am no medical pro so this is all my opinion)

Am I missing a trick with Ewan the sheep? Haven't ever seen one on- what does he do? Is he really magic? can he also feed and change baby too please?

crazypaving Sat 15-Dec-12 12:08:02

waiting for out of hours GP to ring back. ds2 now has d&v (thanks to a friend who visited with it without telling me until too late, who the Fuck does that to a tiny baby?) and on top of horrible cold and rarely feeding he's projectile vomiting anything he does have as well as green diarrhoea. sad sad sad sad sad

Angelico Sat 15-Dec-12 12:36:35

Oh Crazy your poor DS and your friend is a nobber. It's rotten timing but so rife - my sis's whole family have been struck down with it including baby sad Hopefully OOH doc can give you something to help. And a brew and a biscuit for you x

Zara does sound like your period - mine came back after D&C. Sorry for TMI but is so weird having all the normal discharges again, including EWCM confused Will beat DH off with a stick if he tries to come near me while it's around grin

Ewan is awesome Honey - I read about him on one of the sleep threads here. Our bean loved him when she was tiny while others only seem to find him useful now. Ewan bought us many hours of happy nighttime sleep / peaceful meals out with bean in carseat etc etc! He's on Amazon - Ewan the Dreamsheep. Best twenty quid you'll ever spend! White noise is good for sleeping, harp music good for when they are awake but chilling.

Thanks for cradle cap feedback smile In fairness to my HV she is lovely and very helpful and gave a good suggestion for the cradle cap which worked wonders. Basically rub oil on, let it soak, then with a soft baby brush (I bought a Tommy Tippee one) - brush over the oil and cradle cap till it starts coming off. Then shampoo and brush again, then rinse. I did this last night before and during bean's bath and she does look a hell of a lot better this morning. So will add the brushing to her weekly bath. Sad side effect: her hair is all neat, like an American presidential candidate, instead of her being a spiky punk-haired baby sad

On baths is anyone else still only bathing once a week? I think we'll probably start doing 2 a week soon but really can't be arsed with every night just yet. She loves her Tummy Tub (sitting, splashing, punching the duck thermometer, trying to latch on duck's beak as if it's a giant orange nipple grin)) and can now be lifted out without going mad. Secret we've found is: lift out, wrap up tight in towels, feed her, then sit on mat in front of fire to dry and dress her so she is toasty and she can spy at the flames if she wants.

Right must go and pack everything up... have a nice Sat ladies x

Londonmrss Sat 15-Dec-12 14:24:46

any news crazy? if they keep you waiting it might just be better to go to a and e. hope everything is ok. hugs.

well we had that impressive 4.5 hour sleep where she woke up at 2.30am and then she awoke again at 5 then 7. still it's a step in the right direction and we'd never had anything over 3 hours till last night.

crazypaving Sat 15-Dec-12 17:44:09

thanks for asking London

got called in to see out of hours GP. she said he's looking really well considering, no significant signs of dehydration. prescribed diarolyte (sp?!) and told to come back if no improvement. well she obviously had a magic NHS wand grin cos he hasn't thrown up since and has been feeding (and pooing sad ) all afternoon. he's fed more in the last 2.5 hours than he has in the last 2.5 days, I'm so relieved!! he's still snotty as hell and coughing pitifully sad but seems more robust now he's feeding - know that's all in my head but there you are!!

we could be in for a long night if this afternoon's anything to go by!

will catch up properly when I've recovered a bit! hugs to all.

Glad he's doing well crazy

Londonmrss Sat 15-Dec-12 18:32:14

phew crazy. that's great that he's feeding well-written that will help flush any nasties out of his system.

londonlivvy Sat 15-Dec-12 18:36:42

Glad he's doing ok crazy and will keep fingers crossed that you have an ok night.

We had my sister to stay last night and it was fab. She lives abroad so I don't see her that much. Lovely to see her bonding with DD and lots of cuddles. She and DF went out this morning and got a Christmas tree. So excited. I've never had one before (as a grown up in my own home) as I'm never at home for Xmas. Normally DF and I go skiing. Anyway, it looks ace and am v excited. MIL comes on Wednesday for a month. Yay, for help and for company.