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Brooking no argument for babies who sleep, eat, smile and behave perfectly at all times. Yeah right!

(1000 Posts)

New thread, here we go...

Hmmm I've now figured how to link. Sorry about that.

Ninja I've got everything crossed for you. Worry about the work once you're in. There's still loads that needs doing in our house. It would've been finished years ago but small children kind of hinder that and priorities have changed. As long as you can make it clean and liveable you can do bits over time.

Jaggy you're halfway through your first week already! Have you been ok back at work?

hawthers Wed 14-Nov-12 14:10:22

Marking place. DS2 has decided cool kids only have one nap a day hmm

I was up half the night being ill so have achieved precisely nothing today.

jaggythistle Wed 14-Nov-12 14:17:06

thanks scarlet!

i did a big post and it disappeared because there was no room. d'oh.

that decorating sounds like chaos too, you're brave!

work is actually ok. I'm not quite like I've never been away yet, but doing fine. It's going to take ages to catch up on the gossip though. the way our shifts work, i won't see some folk for weeks. grin

DS2 seems to have drunk his milk ok this morning, maybe he's getting the hang of it. or maybe he prefers the variflow teats, I've only got a couple so he probably got different ones yesterday. hmm.

expressing is just a means to keep bfing with minimal disruption for baby or my boobs i guess. bottle washing is the most annoying bit!

<passes initiative test to find new thread>

<heads off to make a cup of tea as a reward for using brain>


How's DS2 doing today Biscuits?

Boo to being ill hawthers, how are you now?

Biscuits have you got the form to compete your school choices? I've made an appointment to go and look at the nearest school to us but I think I'd better check out a couple more just in case. Does your DS automatically get a place at his with him already going to pre-school there?

DS2 doing ok thanks for asking smile. He slept fine overnight please don't hate me everyone so that's helping. I think he's a little less wheezy than before.

I got a leaflet about applying for schools today (but no form? Did it come in the post?). We have just this morning been to see one of the schools in the village and have an open afternoon at the other one tomorrow. Both are probably fine though - the one today is fairly well disciplined I think but a very small plot with no field. The other one (where ds1 goes to pre school) is loads bigger, noisier and has a massive massive field (so big the secondary school borrow it!). He doesn't automatically get in to one though by going to the pre school. But I should think we would get into the bigger one no problem as we live so close to it. Although we are well within the catchment for the other one too so I think we just need to pick our favourite. It would be a shame to take him away from his little pals though if we did like the other quiet one better......

Biscuits hopefully your DS2 is over the worst then.
The council sent the forms out to all the playgroups/nurseries/pre-schools etc and you collect it from one of them. You can do it online anyway which I think is what they prefer you to do. It tells you in the leaflet how to do it. I bet that's why they've not given you a form. We only have one school in walking distance, but there's another 4 or so within a 5 minute drive. I really only like the look of the walking distance one though so fingers crossed we get in there. DS can't wait! I took him yesterday to make an appointment to look round and he was really excited. I'm going to be a wreck, good job I've got DD at home for a few years or I'd be bereft plus I'd have to find some work

BartletForTeamGB Wed 14-Nov-12 16:05:34

Thanks for the link for the new post. Marking my place so I can keep track of where you are, ready for my arrival in a few months!

Ah I bet that's it. We'll do it online anyway.

You must have the best chance of getting in to the closest one you'd think? I suppose it can't hurt to visit a few of he other close ones though to get a feeling for the differences?

Yes - I'm glad I still will have ds2 here for a few more years. And then I'll be joining you looking for the term-time-school-hours-job-that-no-one-else-wants-but-is-ridiculously-well-paid-for-little-or-no-effort hmm

musicalmrs Wed 14-Nov-12 16:24:42

<scoots in and marks place, bringing marshmallows>

Sorry for the radio silence! Disappeared off to Cumbria to visit family for a few days. Got back late last night. DD angelic throughout, except for long car journeys - can't blame her for that. Have read through everything but I'm sure I won't remember everyone..

Ninja Hurrah for exchanging! Fingers crossed packing etc goes well, and that the move goes smoothly.

Scream, hurrah for A's tooth! Hope the sleeping improves soon. Glad to hear things are getting there re organising counciling etc with DH - hope things improve soon on that front too smile

Scarlet, the wine thing made me smile. Similar things happen in my house. Especially moaning over broken glasses (especially when part of a set!). I think my DH has broken the last couple grin.

Hope all poorly and sleepless brookers are improving sad

All ok here. A baby at one of DD's groups is in hospital with meningitis sad Gt Ormond St too, with a prognosis that's not good. So horrible and worrying. Naturally, having told DH, he's now ultra worried about DD (he's the panicky one, and I'm the laid back one!).

Having a lovely relaxing day today (including getting my hair cut!) as DH is still off of work. We have a plumber coming tomorrow to try and fix the leak in the kitchen (which is a result of their work). He was supposed to come today while DH is in, and has rearranged for tomorrow. Grr. I hate being the only one here when work people are here I don't know...

<waves at Bartlet> How long is it until you'll be joining us? smile

Just marking place. Off to pack some more boxes before dd needs another feed.

<marks place>

<watches M destroy living room. She is actually doing a pretty job impression of the tyrannosaurus in Jurassic Park atm, little arms waving, picking up things and ripping them apart>

Have instructed DH to bring home wine.

Can I ask those with DS's proficient in standing up weeing, what do they do with their trousers? DS has just this week mastered the art of the stand up wee, but at the moment still takes his pants and trousers down. What do others do?

As you were......

Pants and trousers down for ds biscuits anything else would be too messy.

So that's not unusual at school?

<hic> Half a bottle, half a bottle, half a bottle onward...don't fancy riding into the valley of death, though. <makes no sense> I am such a lightweight these days! I hope M stays asleep for a bit. Last night she did 7.30-11.30pm, longest sleep in weeks! Sadly I couldn't sleep, but it's a step in the right direction. Then she was up at 2.40 and 6.10, but not for long and slept until 8.40am! That was pretty good.

grin at too I am also a lightweight but have really enjoyed a few cold beers recently.
I don't think it's unusual at school at all biscuits but can't say i've ever asked. I don't see how he could wee out of such a small willy without covering his trousers otherwise?

<creeps in late, pretending the intelligence test of finding her way here was a doddle...>

He he too

Btw too, I would never have attempted decorating with a baby in tow. I'd have just said I could wait in and play while looking after DD. Hmm. I am a bit rubbish at doing jobs while looking after any number of Lo's unless they're napping, when i would squeeze vast amounts of sloppily done jobs in...

<looks on in awe and wonderment at people achieving normal things while looking after a baby>

Oh my god sleep through alert! I've been awake since five thirty though as I woke up in shock! My alarm goes off in 15 mins anyway...

Hmm. Is it the formula?! Or just that she was finally knackered?

Brooking everyone got some sleep!

Hope ds2 carries on getting better biscuits

<waves at barlet> can't wait to see you and your lo over here!

Yay for sleeping through Pomme! Well done A smile

How long is it now Bartlet until you're joining us? smile

Wow, Pomme, hurray for A! Well done the two of you!

I have some pretty good sleep news myself - M did 7.30-10pm and then <drumroll> slept until 3.45! shock Do you think it was the wine? 5 hours 45 minutes counts as sleeping through to Elizabeth Pantley [unconvinced hmm]. M then slept from 4.15 through to 7.30. <considers drinking wine every night, just in case>

Me too, me too, B scoffed 3 whole fishfingers, minging soya mash, broccoli, soya yoghurt then woke at 10:15, (but hadn't managed to fit much milk before bed in unsurprisingly &/or woke himself coughing), then slept til nearly 8!!!! Now S of course....

Well done M and A!

Well done B! That's brilliant!

Oh, and M went down 'sleepy but awake' at 4.15 and dropped off on her own! I could hear her mumbling and coughing for a little while, but then she fell asleep.

Im knackered though, as got b down, then s awoke 11:30 before I'd got to sleep, then 3 ish, then it got blurry...

BartletForTeamGB Thu 15-Nov-12 13:50:05

Oh, I have such rose-tinted memories of how good DS was at sleeping through - what will it be like this time?!

I'll join up properly with you all in February, I hope, but will keep lurking until then!

DD1 was good at sleeping and properly stoically about her teeth <hollow laugh>

HOWEVER sibling interaction is the most awesome thing in the whole entire world. Yesterday in the ball pit at soft play my two little monsters made me heart melt. So it kinda makes up for it.

I reckon even sharing half chewed food sounds adorable dream!

You might get lucky twice anyway barlet!

BartletForTeamGB Thu 15-Nov-12 14:37:21

But he wasn't any good until he was about a year old - it has just all been forgotten about in the mist of time!

I am so looking forward to DS being a big brother to someone he can cuddle and play with!

Bartlet I'm so excited for you. DS is delightful with DD, he just loves her so much. I was worried about how it would affect him when she arrived but my concerns were totally unnecessary.

<whispers> I've been extremely lucky and had 2 very good sleepers. Both have slept through from about 10 weeks. <ducks out of the way of flying objects aimed at me by sleep deprived brokers> But I'm sure I'll pay for it in other ways in years to come smile

Yes, totally agree on the sibling thing smile. It is adorable. One of the hardest things (for me) about struggling ttc was that I really wanted a sibling for ds1, and then I would worry 'what if they don't get on' but ds1 has exceeded my wildest expectations with how much he cares for ds2 and just how much he loves him. They are so so cute together.

On the topic of sleep, just yesterday DH was saying 'oh ds2 is a much worse sleeper than ds1' and I felt obliged to point out that, given he is sleeping through the night, he's really not doing too bad! It's just if ds1 was a 9 or 10 for sleeping, ds2 would maybe get a 7? I think DH has selective memory about these things though as he seems to have forgotten that there were times that ds1 struggled too hmm

Yes, the sharing is so sweet. She does give them better offerings than that sometimes too smile & poke whichever baby is next to her in the car, usually while trying to stroke/ kiss them but still really irritating when she wakes them as they don't go back to sleep I feel bad as DD loves her brothers so much I'm often telling her off or to stop at least for making them cry with too much kissing and cuddling...

I'm on tenterhooks. My job is being advertised for temporary cover right now, if they can recruit cover my career break application will be approved and I'll be off til Jan 4th 2014. Eeeeek, I've got everything crossed . We will make a huge loss on childcare otherwise and i don't want to go back in Feb/March. We will still make a loss in Jan 2014 but more do-able, maybe only lose £200 a month then shock

Keeping everything crossed for you dream - I suppose paying for childcare for 3 would be hideous wouldn't it until dd gets her funding?

When will you find out?

I'll hear if anyone suitable applied in the next 3-4 weeks, (there's no set closing date, they just wait til enough applications are in), then they've got to interview, if someone seems ok, then they'll offer the job, if its accepted then my request goes back to vacancy panel for approval. The joy of very long winded nhs processes. I put the application in in August, I'll probably hear in Dec/Jan, giving me 1-2 months to decide what to do/ sort childcare fully before I'm due back...

Nice - gotta love a bit of NHS bureaucracy! smile

cakes82 Thu 15-Nov-12 20:13:08

On the topic of sleep, how do I try and persuade my little one to feed for longer and then sleep for longer cause they currently appear to be linked. She has a lovely long spell of sleep (well up to 5 hrs) and then it all varies from then on. Annoyingly the long patch can begin from 7pm onwards depending on when she decides she is hungry and what we've been doing during day. I like the idea of her sleeping through at 10weeks so she has 4 weeks to perfect that lol. She also still has her cold which seems to start annoying her in the early hours sad

Hope it works out for you Dream

jaggythistle Thu 15-Nov-12 20:23:12

good luck dream!

waves excitedly to Bartlet! look forward to you joining us. smile

coincidentally the boys have been super cute together this week. we put DS1 into the bath after DS2 had already had a wash and wee DS2 just giggled his head off with delight at everything his big brother did. even when he poured lots of water over his head. grin they had another bath tonight and were similarly giggly.

i just had a lovely bedtime where DS2 started to fall asleep feeding while i did the bedtime story. DS1 was stroking his wee fluffy hair and asking if he was still awake. "i like him awake mummy" hmm

then DS1 and i had a wee chat while DS2 finished feeding.

so they were both in bed at 8 o'clock, with DS2 asleep. shock <faints> We did a trial run of putting DS2 in his cot with DS1 still awake last night and it was fine. i always thought he'd get overexcited and wake the baby.

DS2 was of course awake within 2 hours and up every 2 after that, but at least we're not having to wait till DS1 is asleep!

jaggythistle Thu 15-Nov-12 20:27:37

i am also impressed that i got DS2 into his sleeping bag while feeding him and doing the story.

the day didn't start so well, DS2 hadn't pooped for nearly 3 days and chose to have a Poonami at 6.45 am while i changed a leaky wee nappy. i was a bit late for work...

tomorrow is Friday, yay! i get to finish 2 hours early and then it's the weekend.

off to wash my expressing dishes, boo!

Why, oh why, did I let M have an afternoon nap? She slept from 3.30 to 5 and thus is still wide awake and chirpy. I am not. I want to go to bed. But she had only had an hour's nap in the morning instead of her usual 2, and she was up earlier as well. <wails>

Dream, hope you get some great applicants so you can have your career break with no hitches.

Jaggy, week one nearly over! Yay for Fridays!

jaggythistle Thu 15-Nov-12 21:30:30

DS2's early night lasted till 9.15 so he's back feeding again...

at least my dishes are done.

cakes i can't believe your dd is 6 weeks already, that has flown by. Can't help on the feeding I'm afraid, I gave up bf after a month as I got mastitis recurrently. Hopefully someone else will have some ideas though.
<waves at Bartlet>
dream hope the job thing goes ok and you get your leave approved. I dream of coming into lots of money and giving up my job, having a couple more babies and building my dream studio. One day....
Hoping all the babies go back to sleep.

cakes the sleep thing for DD only happened here when I introduced a bedtime formula feed. Not a decision I made lightly, it was just so I could feel more human in the day for older DS's sake. I don't cope well on interrupted sleep and I was tetchy, impatient and too tired to play with him. DS was fully FF from 4 weeks and I found it easy to get into a routine with him but regret not persevering BFing for longer. But I wasn't on MN back then and was clueless about building supply etc. I was the first person in my family to attempt BF and all of my friends with DC already had all FF so no one told me it was supposed to be relentless at first. My HV was recommending to FF as he was slow gaining weight so I did sad

jaggythistle Fri 16-Nov-12 08:34:31

I am such a fuckwit!!!!

I was catching up on emails from when I was on leave and I thought I'd sent a question about one to my boss. Noooo, I replied to the sender and it was the boss of the whole flippin site. blush blush It was a totally trivial thing as well. He replied very nicely and sent it on to get sorted for me. Hopefully a) I won't see him for a while and b) he won't remember who I am anyway. Do you think it would be gimpy to send a reply saying thanks and explaining I meant to ask my boss? I have written it but not pressed send....

Must pay more attention....

Thank crunchie it's Friday.

cakes If you're getting several hours in a row at 6 weeks, I reckon you're doing pretty good! better than my 7 MONTH old is currently doing

I'm also a bad person to ask as my entire plan is to wait till DS2 fiures out sleeping by himself, because that worked for DS! blush It's frustrating when they have a big sleep early on then pop up and down all night though, eh! I've just let both sleep/feed on my knee till I went to bed out of complete laziness. DS2 does now go to bed in his cot in DS1's room though.

cakes82 Fri 16-Nov-12 09:49:22

Jaggy I guess as you replied to the person that sent the message in first place its not so bad even if you did mean to ask your boss.

Ninja I can't believe its 6 weeks already, time this year has gone so quickly and its nice she is starting to smile, even her windy smiles look more like big obvious smiles I guess as muscles are strengthening. She holds her head up well when being a chest frog but not so well when on floor on her tummy.

Last night she slept 9.45 till 1 then woke every two hours had a 10 min feed and went back to sleep confused I tried everything I could think of to get her to feed for longer in hope she would sleep longer but once asleep that was it sad

<wibble> I have just been organising my return to work - have got work all sorted out and phoned the nursery to check M's settling-in sessions are all booked. She's now doing an hour on Tues 11, an hour on Thurs 13, then the full morning Tues 18, full afternoon Thurs 20, then the Christmas break, and then she has her first full day on Thurs 3 Jan. I start back to work on Mon 7 Jan and she goes for her first full (well, 3 day) week starting on Tues 8th. sad How did it get to be mid-November already? I only have 7 more weeks at home - only 2 more on official mat leave, then the rest are annual leave.

Oh feck, must take baking out of oven. Laters!

FairiesWearPoppies Fri 16-Nov-12 11:54:58

Ooo just found this thread. Can I join? Ds is 25 wks tomorrow.

hello fairies! <hands over some cakes>

of course you can join and we'd love to know a bit about you and your ds too? is he your first? Does he sleep?!

On the subject of sleep - A did 13 hours last night (brief sleepy cries at 8.30 and 4am). I think its the formula.

Actually maybe in honour of fairies we should do a roll call thing?

Pommdechocolat - Abbie 8.5 months, dd1 2.8

RubberBullets - Natasha 24 weeks

hello fairies and welcome. Congrats on your ds, is he your first? Our thread is all about positivity and brooking no argument that things will go our way. We have a conception thread (the rat smackers), an ante natal thread (sneeze births) and the post natal one here but we are always happy to welcome newbies at any point in the process.Get stuck in!
Wow too that's come around quickly. I'm sure she'll be fine and settle in quickly. Are you baking something tasty?
I am putting off the packing and have decided to look at white goods on the net whilst dd is asleep in my lap. I also need to tackle the cavernous cupboard in ds's room while he's at school so he doesn't start demanding to get it all out to play with.

FairiesWearPoppies Fri 16-Nov-12 12:15:41

Ds ( George ) is 2nd so stupidly knew exactly what I was letting myself in for! Dd ( Caitlin ) is 5.

Ds sleeps through night and has done since bout 8 wks. I can't be smug tho as dd still does not reliably sleep through!!!

Pommdechocolat - Abbie 8.5 months, dd1 2.8
RubberBullets - Natasha 24 weeks
NinjaChipmunk - Mia 19 weeks and ds 5yrs

hawthers Fri 16-Nov-12 12:17:10

Hawthers - farley 40 something weeks? Nearly 11 months

F's sleeping got much better when I stopped bf but this could just be because I didn't feed him automatically when he woke in the night and was actually consistent in shushing and just cuddling. Also I got his naps sorted but <look away cakes> this took until he was 8 months old...

hawthers Fri 16-Nov-12 12:17:16

Hawthers - farley 40 something weeks? Nearly 11 months

F's sleeping got much better when I stopped bf but this could just be because I didn't feed him automatically when he woke in the night and was actually consistent in shushing and just cuddling. Also I got his naps sorted but <look away cakes> this took until he was 8 months old...

RubberBullets - Natasha 24 weeks
Pommdechocolat - Abbie 8.5 months, dd1 2.8
Biscuitsandtea - DS2 8 months, DS1 4.1 years

Hello Fairies - lovely to meet you. How many months is 25 weeks? <baby brain>

Ergh - just had to pay £70 to get a new battery for my watch sad

Just about to watch Skyfall - catch you all later. DH is nagging me to switch my phone off grin

FairiesWearPoppies Fri 16-Nov-12 12:19:24

Bout 6 months (I think) I only know cause get annoying emails from bounty every week blush

ooh enjoy biscuits i've heard good things about it.

jaggythistle Fri 16-Nov-12 13:11:05

Hello fairies smile
better add myself.

RubberBullets - Natasha 24 weeks
Pommdechocolat - Abbie 8.5 months, dd1 2.8
Biscuitsandtea - DS2 8 months, DS1 4.1 years
Hawthers - farley 40 something weeks? Nearly 11 months
jaggythistle - DS2 7 months, DS1 3.2 years

RubberBullets - Natasha 24 weeks
Pommdechocolat - Abbie 8.5 months, dd1 2.8
Biscuitsandtea - DS2 8 months, DS1 4.1 years
Hawthers - farley 40 something weeks? Nearly 11 months
NinjaChipmunk - Mia 19 weeks and ds 5yrs
TooImmature - Maia 8 months, DD1 stillborn March 2011. (I'm putting that in because I refer to both pgs and it can be a bit confusing if I'm talking about having had both a VB and a CS. Or perhaps I'm overthinking this.)

RubberBullets - Natasha 24 weeks
Pommdechocolat - Abbie 8.5 months, dd1 2.8
Biscuitsandtea - DS2 8 months, DS1 4.1 years
Hawthers - farley 40 something weeks? Nearly 11 months
NinjaChipmunk - Mia 19 weeks and ds 5yrs
TooImmature - Maia 8 months, DD1 stillborn March 2011
jaggythistle - DS2 7 months, DS1 3.2 years

Isn't it frustrating when you buy something to give your baby and they just go bleurgh, not eating that? I knew I would be in a hurry today, went to Tesco at 8am and bought an Ella's Kitchen breakfast pouch and a lunch type one of lemon chicken with sweetcorn. M ate the breakfast one, mainly because she could suck it straight out of the pouch, but then threw up mango baby brekkie all over herself repeatedly. hmm Now she is turning up her nose at the lemon chicken and just wants bits of chicken out of my Tesco soup. I've run out of chicken and she's clearly hungry, but will she touch the puree? Not a chance. Banana being attempted now instead.

Ninja, am making lemon, blueberry and coconut traybake. It is yummy, if I do say so myself. It's partly for my small siblings tonight and partly for my friend who just had a baby tomorrow.

cakes82 Fri 16-Nov-12 14:00:46

RubberBullets - Natasha 24 weeks
Pommdechocolat - Abbie 8.5 months, dd1 2.8
Biscuitsandtea - DS2 8 months, DS1 4.1 years
Hawthers - farley 40 something weeks? Nearly 11 months
NinjaChipmunk - Mia 19 weeks and ds 5yrs
TooImmature - Maia 8 months, DD1 stillborn March 2011
Jaggythistle - DS2 7 months, DS1 3.2 years
Cakes82 - DD1 Isla 6 weeks

cakes82 Fri 16-Nov-12 14:03:03

Traybake sounds yummy smile

Hi Fairies

Bet M would prefer the tray bake grin

musicalmrs Fri 16-Nov-12 15:16:13

RubberBullets - Natasha 24 weeks
Pommdechocolat - Abbie 8.5 months, dd1 2.8
Biscuitsandtea - DS2 8 months, DS1 4.1 years
Hawthers - farley 40 something weeks? Nearly 11 months
NinjaChipmunk - Mia 19 weeks and ds 5yrs
TooImmature - Maia 8 months, DD1 stillborn March 2011
Jaggythistle - DS2 7 months, DS1 3.2 years
Cakes82 - DD1 Isla 6 weeks
Musicalmrs - Isabelle, 6 months

Hi Fairies! Pull up a brownie and make yourself at home smile

Cakes, DD started sleeping through at about 10 wks. Sadly, unlike scarlet's DCs, she then stopped at about 13. Ah well..

I think M is clearly after the tray bake.... grin

Hope Skyfall is wonderful Biscuits! Haven't yet had an opportunity to watch it...

RubberBullets - Natasha 24 weeks
Pommdechocolat - Abbie 8.5 months, dd1 2.8
Biscuitsandtea - DS2 8 months, DS1 4.1 years
Hawthers - farley 40 something weeks? Nearly 11 months
NinjaChipmunk - Mia 19 weeks and ds 5yrs
TooImmature - Maia 8 months, DD1 stillborn March 2011
Jaggythistle - DS2 7 months, DS1 3.2 years
Cakes82 - DD1 Isla 6 weeks
Musicalmrs - Isabelle, 6 months
DreamingOfPeace- DTs, 7 months, DD 2.2

too S puked and puked on that mango baby brekkie. I'd give her the traybake <terrible standards emoticon>

Hi Fairies! Mine don't sleep well, but now, DD sleeps through 6 out of 7 nights on average I reckon smile

Today I have DD, unexplained bad limp continuing from yesterday. Dh thinks viral, prob transient synovitis but not sure and S, temperature and grizzly, and B, no temperature and the only one with no identifiable problem, grizzliest!! Marvellous.

Oh, and too, thanks and sympathy, I hated going back to work after dd

hawthers Fri 16-Nov-12 15:54:11

RubberBullets - Natasha 24 weeks
Pommdechocolat - Abbie 8.5 months, dd1 2.8
Biscuitsandtea - DS2 8 months, DS1 4.1 years
Hawthers - DS2 10.5 months DS2 3.3 years
NinjaChipmunk - Mia 19 weeks and ds 5yrs
TooImmature - Maia 8 months, DD1 stillborn March 2011
Jaggythistle - DS2 7 months, DS1 3.2 years
Cakes82 - DD1 Isla 6 weeks
Musicalmrs - Isabelle, 6 months

Well too - I am loving my bits of works if it's any consolation? Im looking forward to upping it to 2.5 days when we're in Italy.

Oh god, we're moving to Italy in six weeks time...

I just had to google that virus Dream. Gah now I have another one to worry about. I hope your poorly 2 get better ASAP and the non-poorly one stops grizzling.

Only 6 weeks pomme? shock I'm soooo jealous <daydreams about escaping to live miles away from PIL>

Biscuits I can't wait to see Daniel Craig Skyfall, we're going next week.

Welcome Fairies

I still can't figure out how to copy from someone else's post on the IPad so please can someone add the below details to the list. Thanks muchly.

scarletfingernail - DD 28 weeks, DS 3.10

cakes82 Fri 16-Nov-12 18:29:11

RubberBullets - Natasha 24 weeks
Pommdechocolat - Abbie 8.5 months, dd1 2.8
Biscuitsandtea - DS2 8 months, DS1 4.1 years
Hawthers - farley 40 something weeks? Nearly 11 months
NinjaChipmunk - Mia 19 weeks and ds 5yrs
TooImmature - Maia 8 months, DD1 stillborn March 2011
Jaggythistle - DS2 7 months, DS1 3.2 years
Cakes82 - DD1 Isla 6 weeks
Musicalmrs - Isabelle, 6 months
DreamingOfPeace- DTs, 7 months, DD 2.2
scarletfingernail - DD 28 weeks, DS 3.10

Skyfall was bloody ace! I loved Daniel Craig it smile

In laws looked after ds2 who cried for 20 mins when we went sad but seemed ok after that. And now we're going to have a take away with them (and wine!!)

Ooh I'm really excited about it now then Biscuits. Oh btw I had a Duh moment earlier when I realised that I bet you come under a different council to us. We're city, I bet you're county?

Thanks for that cakes

Yes we are - I didn't twig that either grin

The application window is open here too though until mid Jan

PetWoman Fri 16-Nov-12 21:59:13

Hi Fairies !

Can't copy the list to add myself as I'm on my phone, but I have DS, 7.5 months.

Cakes I have to say that sleep / waking / feeding sounds relatively normal to me for a 6 week old. Sorry. But I'm sure it'll keep improving until she hits 6 months .

PetWoman Fri 16-Nov-12 22:47:23

Two stories for y'all (am feeding DS to sleep for the third time tonight).

1: the other day I had DS on his change mat and bent to kiss his face just as he spat out some vomit. I narrowly escaped ingesting it. The cat then walked into the room with a cheery meow, to be greeted by a jet of wee which DS produced as I was wiping up the vomit. Luckily the cat dodged the unfortunate fountain, but I could see him mentally computing this new hazard and adding it to his list of grievances against DS (chief amongst which is him crying too loudly when the cat is trying to sleep hmm ).

2: the night before last I had just resettled DS after his first wake-up when the cat intercepted me on the way back to bed and asked me to turn the bathroom tap on for him so he could have a drink. I waited politely until he'd finished, then stumbled back to bed. The cat also curled up companiably on the end of our bed. Then, just as I was falling asleep, the cat leapt to his feet and vomited copiously on the bed - with such force that it had clearly taken him by surprise, and splashed all over the floor. Now DH was in the middle of Ofsted so I nobly let him rest and got out of bed again and cleared it all up, gagging quietly to myself as I did so. Just as I was falling asleep, the cat returned to do apologetic purry padding and nuzzle my face affectionately. Knowing what had just passed his lips made me a little less than warm in my welcome, but nonetheless, the cat curled up by my shoulder and went to sleep. And then DS woke up again. Just as he was dropping back to sleep on my lap, the cat stomped into the room and meowed loudly to be let out. He then tried to jump onto the chair beside DS and knocked a teddy over. As he began noisily sharpening his claws on the chair, I texted DH in despair to open the cat flap before the furry beast woke DS yet again. All this happened before midnight.

Anyone want a cat? grin

According to ds we should have a cat. His reasoning? We have a cat flap therefore we need a cat for it. Unfortunately we are moving next week so no longer have the need for a cat grin

He he pet, you've cheered me up smile

Temporarily anyway. I'm brooking no argument that i will get some sleep tonight. Why, why, is this illness situation so badly designed so its all worse at night?? Mild temp all day, 38.6 now. Gah... Not sleeping for more than 10 min at a time. And i am a terrible mother, losing patience already.... sad

just to amuse myself before bed and as I am about a month too early for a christmas namechange thread, I am going to ask what you think of my seasonal suggestions


I'm bored, can you tell?

You are not a terrible mother dream far from it, you've had basically a year of being sleep deprived from what I can recall. Probably a bit of a daft question but would opening a window a crack help them with their stuffiness? <I know you are up north somewhere so appreciate its probably a lot colder than down here> I hope they settle for you soon.

Holy sh*t, night from hell. S inconsolable from 10pm to 3am. Hot too, so dh took him out in the buggy in the cold. He just screamed sad . Even dh worried as no obvious reason why he was so distraught but as the night went on it was clearer he's got a cough and is really hinged up. He finally crashed at 4am and dozed til 5:30, then slept on me with some jiggling til 6:30. We are knackered sad sad

And having not been out without children, ever, or seen any non-mummy friends since they were born, my best friends are meant to be coming today, from Reading way and Manchester. Argh!!!!! I'd been so looking forward to it, but now I'm just exhausted with ill children...

Erm, he's bunged up of course.

And, clearly, B is coughing now too...

Oh no dream sad

Poor you. I hope you manage to enjoy your day with your friends anyway. The kids might be all distracted by new people/entertainment and be less demanding?

brew brew brew

Poor you dream and poor poorly dream family sad

Also hope you can have a lovely day anyway and that the littlies are distracted by the different faces. Hopefully they're better in the daytime like they have been the last few days? And then forget to get worse at night again <hopeful>

Well blow me down with a feather, DS2 only went to sleep on his own tonight! As in I put him down awake and he settled himself off to sleep shock

<fans self and pours wine>

Good for you E!!

My friends have gone early, it was lovely to see them but the demands of an ill baby, a well baby and a toddler after 2 hours sleep were too much... Toddler limp improving, I hope- she's less unhappy about it today anyway, though its still pronounced. But just noticed before, she's got threadworm. I'm mortified and horrified, even though I insist on proper handwashing in the sink before every meal. Fucking threadworm. Dh says it'll be because she's a thumb sucker/ finger sucker, so as soon as she touches something she transfers it to her mouth. Either way, sad

I'm just out of the shower and off to bed now. Quick. In case It's like last night, s not a happy bunny today, cried and cried and cried...

pomme seriously considering formula now based on your verdict of A's sleep. Going to push the beaker, still only on sips...

How do you know she has threadworm? What are the symptoms / implications? Ds1 is a thumb sucker so nothing would surprise me with him! Hope it's not too bad?

Oh no, poor DD * Dream*. My DSIS used to get it loads when we were kids. Used to make me so cross because I was also forced to drink the repulsive drink even though I was unaffected. Biscuits I think the most common sign is them scratching their bums. If you notice them doing it a lot you need to check out their poo. But you can't always see them in the poo. Apparently the best way is to wait until they're asleep and then shine a torch and check out the exit area and you can seem them crawling out <boak>

Then it's a nasty drink for the whole family and everything washed on a hot wash daily for a few days. That was the advice in the 80s anyway. I'm sure Dream can correct me if it's changed.

Fuck. DH and I have spent all evening blowing up balloons, it's took ages to get them all up on the walls and they keep bursting randomly. It's like fireworks going off in the house. One of the kids are bound to wake up screaming any minute. Don't buy cheapo balloons from Asda. I suspect I may spend the whole night leaping out of my skin every time I get back to sleep.

Oh it's got to be NinjaChipmunksGotBigBaubles grin

Ergh. Another joyful parenting task then! Thanks for the info though Scarlet smile

Hope today goes well for you too and that the balloons add an extra air of excitement grin

jaggythistle Sun 18-Nov-12 07:32:10

hope some balloons last scarlet!

eew to threadworms dream. sad I'm a bit paranoid about this as i have a thumb sucker too, I'm sure we'll get them sometime.

DS2 is more of a random hand chewer unless he's v sleepy. unlike DS1 he doesn't seem to find his thumb at night though. unless he does and would somehow sleep worse without it? i think he's up every 1-2 hours at the moment so maybe with no thumb he'd just stay awake all night...

I'm ending up with him in bed beside me more and more, even when i have good intentions to put him back, i fall asleep sitting up which is v uncomfortable. I'd rather snuggle him in and get some sleep, especially now I'm back at work!

managed to sneak DS2 back to the cot at 7am. just waiting for the boys to wake each other up now...

Yes, spotted one exiting biscuits . Eeew, and scarlet is right,except dh says you'd usually re-treat after 2 weeks as the eggs can survive in dust, on towels, surfaces, bedding, swooshed round in the air and resettleg etc for 2 weeks. I'm so totally grossed out... Think I can't take the stuff, just hygiene measures like handwashing, not sharing towels, vacuuming mattresses. I'm a bit worried though as I do wash my hands constantly so they look like old lady hands and always chapped we have a cleaner so bedrooms always dusted and vacuumed once a week at least- I didn't think we were that minging. Dh reckons she's picking them up from a playgroup.

Slightly better night here though still managed a good argument about ridiculous things (like who's most tired, who leaves who to struggle most at night etc etc) when both were up. B seems to be getting s's bug.

I agree, ninjachipmunksgotbigbaubles grin grin

Hope today is lovely scarlet and you didn't get woken by 'fireworks' in the night smile

Have a lovely day scarlet and dream I hope the worms go soon. Maybe a nail brush might help? You don't sound minging by the way, you're probably a damn sight cleaner than we are!
I think I may go for big shiny/ glittery baubles unless I can think of something sillier.
I am surrounded by boxes and bubble wrap. I have 4 days to pack my worldly possessions. Me no likey.

FairiesWearPoppies Sun 18-Nov-12 10:22:35

Spent lovely morning at the park however I'm now knackered and dd shows no sign of needing a rest! Oh to be young again!

Hope you ladies are having a good weekend

Sounds like you had an early morning fairies. Still firmly attached to my pjs here! Weather looks lovely though.

FairiesWearPoppies Sun 18-Nov-12 11:42:18

Been up since 4! Dp has man flu sad

Ninja, the BigBaubles one made me giggle aloud - gotta be that!

Fairies, being up since 4 sounds rough - sympathies!

Dream, don't fret about the worms. I think most kids get them at some stage, boak! I certainly did, anyway. Hope the other ailments clear up quickly too and B stops grizzling!

Jaggy, I did a bit more co-sleeping over the weekend because we were at my dad's and M kept on waking up in the travel cot on Friday night. I let her sleep with us for a bit and then sneaked her back into the cot twice, but she didn't stay there for very long. Last night I was stricter and she was less unsettled - and I think less cold. It was pretty chilly in the bedroom on Friday and I think that wasn't helping with the wake-ups.

Yay for E going to sleep on his own, Biscuits! envy

ooo dream now I feel all responsible! Dont make me responsible for formula vs bm! However, I really do think it's helped. 38 weeks of bf = 1 sleep through and soul destroying sleep deprivation. 6 days of formula feeding = 3 sleep throughs....

I'm not sleeping well though, takes ages to get off and my sleep is really light. grr.

Also don't worry about the worms, but I know how you feel. When dd1 got nits I felt like we must be really dirty. She was only 22 months - it seemed so young!

God, Monday again tomorrow!

<waves to everyone>

jaggythistle Sun 18-Nov-12 21:15:35

too I keep trying so hard to be strict, but falling asleep feeding! seems to happen whether i lie down or sit up and even if i get up and sit in a chair. useless.

It's been even worse since i have to set my alarm and get up early for work.

DS1 always seemed to sleep better if he was warm, i dressed him in long sleeved vests under his pjs all through winter. i can't tell if it makes much difference to DS2 yet...

I'm quite happy to co sleep a bit if it gets me more rest, DH is a bit nervous that DS2 will never sleep in his cot all night. i pointed out that although i didn't have DS1 in our bed, he spent hours sleeping on my knee in the chair i used to have in his bedroom. Ikea Poang can take a lot of sleeping...

jaggythistle Mon 19-Nov-12 06:08:28

pants night. sad

i didn't get to bed till just after 11 despite good intentions about an early night. DS2 woke as i got ready for bed, couldn't get him settled, eventually transferred him to cot at 2am.

DS1 up ill from 3am to 4am, not sure what's up but he was really hot.

DS2 up at 4.15am...

ended up keeping him beside me just so i didn't disturb DS1 by taking him back through.

I'm going to be even less useful that a chocolate teapot today.

Oh Jaggy how awful sad. You poor thing and poor poorly ds1 - hope he's better this morning thanks

Hope today whizzes by and you can get back to your bed nice and early. I prescribe an early night for you m'dear thanks

jaggythistle Mon 19-Nov-12 06:39:23

thanks biscuits. smile have had my shower so almost awake.

well i sneaked DS2 back through so i could get up and had a feel of DS1's head, he definitely seems less hot. i was flapping as i thought he was going to be sick last night, DH was hmm as i went about with a bowl. blush

really need an early night!

luckily I'm working with some of my best work buddies today, so that will keep me going...

Hi ladies! Sorry to hear about the lack of sleep and poorly mini No Brookers sad Big hugs to the Dream household in particular! Threadworms are definitely one of the things I'm dreading the most! Wow for E settling himself to sleep though Biscuits! Fancy swapping babies for, say, a year or so? grin

I'm just back from a long boozy weekend in France, it was the hen weekend for one of my best friends. DD seems to have had a good time with DH while I was gone, although I'm sooooo annoyed that he ignored all my weeks of strict bedtimes / enforced sleeping in the cot not co-sleeping. So DD will be especially unsettled at night for at least the next week, sigh. angry I've missed her so much though! She seems bigger! [ridiculously illogical emoticon]

Welcome Fairies! I'm on my phone so can't update the full list. However my entry is:

Scream - Autumn, 6.75 months

Yay! Welcome back Scream - seems like long time no write - hope you're well smile.

Your weekend away sounds fab - hope you thoroughly enjoyed it. DH often says that either or both of the DSs seen bigger when he's not seen them all week smile

Hope that A settles back into your routine ASAP smile. Yet to determine if ds2 can repeat this self settling miracle as he fell asleep feeding last night. Who knows.....

Morning! A new dawn, a new diet...going back to work is looming and I want to be a bit thinner by the time I go back. I did eat 3 blueberry muffins yesterday just so they wouldn't be in the house to derail me today, though. blush

Jaggy, so sorry you had a terrible night. sad Hope DS1 is much better today.

Scream, welcome back! Your weekend away sounds fab. Especially the boozy part!

Last night M was so good and only woke up twice - once at 9.45 and once at 2ish! She was up for quite a long time - I didn't get back to bed until 2.40, but then she slept right through until 8! We had a power cut and the baby monitor started to beep loudly hmm, which I think disturbed her (this was before she woke up at 2), and then it got pretty chilly because the heating doesn't work without the electricity. The power went back on at 2.20 while I was feeding M, the room started to warm up and she conked out within 20 minutes.

morning all, scream your weekend away sounds lovely, hope A settles for you this week.
jaggy brew for you m'dear, prop those eyelids open and listen to DrBiscuits early night advice.
Got a poorly baby here, she coughed and sneezed all night, even in her sleep. We've all had v chesty coughs here so off to docs this afternoon to make sure her chest is ok. She's currently asleep on my lap. Which is a shame as I want to get some breakfast!
Ok, i'm off to make a massive to do list, probably be back here very soon grin

jaggythistle Mon 19-Nov-12 11:38:41

thanks guys. thanks

DS1 was a lot brighter when he got up at 7 and woke up his baby brother, but didn't want any breakfast which is not like him. DH says he was a bit brighter so they went out a walk. he's still v hot though and not hungry.

hopefully he'll have a nap and sleep off the unspecified lurgy a bit.

on my expressing break, i always feel guilty ditching my workmates even though i don't take a tea break instead.

think i need a coffee at lunch time though, might make me hyper as i don't drink tea or coffee or any caffeinated stuff often!

jaggythistle Mon 19-Nov-12 11:40:05

hope DD better soon ninja, just what you need with a million things to do! sad

Not sure if those of you who have had sections have seen this

Could it be a urinary infection, Jaggy? I suppose it could be a virus or something too.

Ninja, Brooking for DD to get well soon! Poor little thing.

Grr, bloody baby food. M has been spoon-refusing, or perhaps more accurately, refusing to eat anything from a spoon that isn't sweet. She'll still pick up and gnaw bread, breadsticks, cheese, meat, cherry tomatoes, apple slices etc. She had a few spoonfuls of spicy tomato soup for dinner last night and then again at lunchtime today, but then howled at me when I tried to give her a bit more. I'm not sure if it was too spicy for her, although the bright pinkness of her bum suggests it may have been. blush I thought Indian babies would eat spicy food, so why not M, but she seems to have different ideas. So for lunch today she has had maybe 5 teaspoonfuls of soup, a fair bit of cheese and a tiny bit of sliced apple. hmm I don't think this is enough. She wolfed down Greek yoghurt for breakfast, plus quite a lot of sliced apple, but she can't eat yoghurt for breakfast, lunch and dinner. <rethinks dinner menu of chicken curry. Perhaps if I stirred a lot of yoghurt into M's bit?>

I've been watching M's attempts at crawling this morning. She can move herself a fair distance across the room, but it's not a crawl. She rolls in the direction of the toy/coffee table/hearth/Playstation/BT Vision box, then rotates on the spot until she can grab it. She can rotate 360 degrees on her tummy or back. She can also wriggle backwards, but not really forwards. I'm wondering whether this strange form of locomotion is going to be it until she walks. confused

too - is she teething? Mine HATE the spoon when teething. I have not got enough patience for blw so it drives me crackers.

Jen thanks for the link!

Too M sounds exactly like little A with all the random gyrating to get around the room! confused She does voluntarily spend more time on her hands and knees now though, so we now think she might crawl at some point rather than skipping it. It's all a bit nerve-wracking though, considering I haven't even began baby-proofing and I don't really believe it's possible to baby proof our house

Little A has been offered a place at nursery! Eeeek!! From January 18th she'll be going one day week at our preferred nursery. I'm still not going back to work until the end of April, but it's really hard to get the days you want at this nursery because it's so popular, so by accepting one day a week as early as January, we get onto the shorter internal waiting list for the other days we want. Fingers crossed we'll get the other days we need by the time I go back to work. I'm so nervous at the idea of someone unrelated to DD looking after her! I'm also giddy with excitement at the idea of a whole day to myself each week!

Jaggy I hope work is going well for you! Also, I'm still No Brooking for the poorly babies in the Jaggy, Ninja and Dream households (plus any others I've missed - sorry!)

Today I woke DD up earlier than usual, I'm getting her to stay awake longer between naps, and I'm limiting the length of each nap. We're also implementing a water-only rule between the hours of 11pm and 6am (for the last week she's been having heavily diluted formula between 11 and 6, but now it's time to completely eliminate the night milk). So I think the next couple of nights will be hard, with an overtired hungry baby, but I'm desperately hoping this will lead to better nights by next week! Wish me luck!

<scoffs pretzels. DH is a bad influence>

Pomme, not sure if she's teething. She's been drooling a lot more for the last week, but she hasn't had any teeth yet so I don't know if this is it or not. Maybe! I suppose babies could be having tooth pain for weeks and months before any break through, just as the teeth grow in the gums, though.

Scream, good luck! How long does A usually last between naps atm? M usually lasts exactly 3 hours between getting up and her first (and often only) nap. She'd normally then nap for 1.5 - 2 hrs. Today, however, she slept much better last night and was grizzly and ready for a snooze after only 2 hours - up at 8, napping by 10.15. She only napped for an hour, but went down for a second nap at 2.10, getting up at 3.30. We'll see how she goes to bed!

And yay for getting the place at the nursery you like! Brooking that you'll get the other days you want very soon. Little A will love it - she sounds v sociable.

M went to bed at 7, with the greatest of ease. I feel bad even writing that, like I'm jinxing things. For some reason as I was putting her to bed, I was overtaken with the feeling that she was going to sleep through the night. I was positive. Scarily positive. I'm now trying to talk myself down - it's not going to happen, don't get your hopes up! I'm setting myself up for failure here. But there's just the tiniest tiniest chance that actually I'm psychic and tonight's going to be the night for the first time in about 3 months. <crosses fingers and prays> Btw, it still counts in my head as sleeping through the night even if she wakes up during the evening. So long as she doesn't actually wake me up it counts.

I literally just pressed post and she woke up. sad

Awesome going to bed M. Remember Too it could (no, will) still be tonight for sleeping through.

DS2 just pushed himself up to sitting from lying on his front. Sadly I missed this feat as ds1 and I were engrossed in a conversation about how much he likes smelling things (hmm), but ds2 was merrily going backwards across the floor (the descriptions of M and A and their rotating and going backwards match him to a T). Then I turned round and he was sat up checking himself out in ds1's mirrored wardrobe door!

Oh yes good luck Scream with boot camp tonight grin. Hope it goes well.

Just think we'll all look back and laugh at these days when we have teenagers that we can't get out of bed for love nor money! hmm

jaggythistle Mon 19-Nov-12 20:47:05

I'm such an idiot. i put DS2 on DS1's bed (he loves it) and somehow looked away for a few seconds before i sat down beside him. he managed to fall off face first sad sad sad i was standing a few inches away FFS. his wee nose is skinned and he's got a bruise on his forehead.

I've just got that shaky feeling when you worry about what could have happened. <shudder>

the bed is very low but still plenty of distance, even for a big baby. grr. i feel so stupid and angry with myself. I think being tired has not helped my concentration.

thinking it might be a virus or something DS1 has. he did have a nap and wake up hungry, but didn't eat any tea and still feels warm.

I'm just sitting looking at DS2 sleeping on my knee and feeling a bit sorry for myself. hope he hasn't really hurt his poor wee nose.

right, need to try and get him in the cot without disturbing DS1 too much.

hope M is back to sleeping too

Oh Jaggy I know exactly how you feel (if not more so after I let ds2 fall off a frigging change unit on to a tiled floor!). I'm sure ds2 will be absolutely fine but there is nothing that can take away that horrible shakey-tummy feeling is there thanks

Take it easy my lovely xx

Hope ds1 is better soon too xx

Second wake up. Grr! Why did I tempt fate by writing down my stupid feelings?

Oh Jaggy, you poor thing. It's the tiredness, I think. I'm sure he'll be fine. I know what you mean about spending ages feeling shaky, though. Was it a hard floor?

Biscuits, great news! Well done E!

jaggythistle Mon 19-Nov-12 21:13:59

it is a hard floor, but luckily with a big fuzzy Ikea rug! he did such a big cry.

Ouch - a tiled floor biscuits! sad

I'm so sleepy i can barely string together a sentence. I've still got to do my expressing dishes though. Poo. i should really express as well, i ended up with two meetings and not enough time for 2 breaks.

musicalmrs Mon 19-Nov-12 21:20:17

I'm sure he'll be fine Jaggy, but poor you!

Hurrah to E Biscuits!

The backwards thing that M, A and E all seem to have down is one Iz has mastered too. I can leave her on the mat, put the kettle on, and come back to find she's travelled backwards to under the coffee table. I think it's only a matter of time before crawling though - she's up on her hands and knees, can bunny hop, and today kept getting up on hands and feet. I think she knows she could move forward somehow, but hasn't figured out the moving one leg/hand forward then the other bit yet. It's only a matter of time. It'll either be a laptop, a phone or a cat that helps her learn, too grin.

Good luck with boot camp Scream! Hurrah for the nursery place too - I bet she'll love it. What will you do with a day to yourself?!

I know what you mean about sleeping through Too. When Iz went through her phase of good sleeping ,she'd either sleep through or wake once at 4am. I'd be more than happy to go back to that one! At the moment it tends to be three wakeups (and normally chucked into our bed at the last one, as I can't take anymore!).

Having lots of fun with food here. Iz's current favourites are mashed potato, fromage frais (only half of one, but think she may be ok with dairy at the moment, hurrah!), cucumber, apple, banana and houmous. An interesting collection...

Hoping for some sleep tonight. Finished a big project on Friday night/Sat morn, so I'm enjoying a few nights off before getting back to work! Just designed our Christmas card for this year, now about to finish Iz's Christmas presents...

Musical E does up on hands and feet, rocking etc, all those things. In fact he has been doing all those things for about 2 months I think! However I suspect he is in the minority for being so close without figuring it all out. A friend's DD was doing all those things and crawling within a couple of weeks. I think ds2 might just be a little on the slow side grin.

He did today make marginally more progress and sort of managed to get a teeny tiny bit forward then went backwards as per usual.

Third wake-up. <sobs>

M isn't up on her hands and knees yet - she can either get her knees or her hands under her, but not both at once. She can get her feet under her but because she's not up on her hands at the same time it looks very uncomfortable, with her nose pressed to the carpet! Then she gets frustrated, sticks her arms out to the side as though she's flying, rocks from side to side and howls. grin She's constantly trying to push with her feet, though, so it really does look like only a matter of time until she starts pushing herself forwards. She can't cruise with her feet yet, just her hands - stands holding onto sofa/cot etc, starts moving her hands to one side, crosses her feet, always, always, moves one foot so she's standing on her babygro/tights/whatever on the other foot so it can't move, and then falls over. I don't think she's going to be dramatically early at anything. So far she's been either average or slightly on the late side for everything. I suppose she could still take off walking early, but seeing as she's not standing alone yet, at 8 and a bit months, I doubt she'll be walking by 10 or 11 months which she would have to be to be even with my brother.

Too she's getting all the wake ups out of the way now so she can get a proper night's rest. Fact.

Will post properly tomorrow, but just a quick one to say Christening all went well. I'll try and get a pic up of DD in her super cute dress (and maybe me) soon.

Back to normality with a thud though as DS is ill, don't know if it's a bug or constipation but he's moaned about tummy ache for 2 days and is quite bloated and I'm freaking out as per usual. On the plus side I had a phone call and was called in for my first CBT session today as someone else cancelled. I was dreaming of being cured in an hour but apparently my loonyness is going to take a bit more than that so will be weekly for the next few weeks at least.

Sorry to hear our DS1 is also ill Jaggy I hope he's better tomorrow. How's your 3 now Dream?

Yay for the nursery place Scream and a day a week to yourself. Bliss.

A tough day for the No Brookers it seems!! Sending lots of hugs to Jaggy and DS2, that sick feeling in your tummy after they fall is truly awful. sad Biscuits falling onto a tiled floor sounds especially scary - poor you and DS2! In the spirit of solidarity I just want to say I felt exactly the same when DD somersaulted off my arm while I was standing. I may be short but she was still over 4ft off the ground sad

Too you poor thing! I'm No Brooking that M heard your comment about wake ups before you go to bed not counting, so she's getting all the restlessness out of her system now before you turn in!

Little A has recently got into the habit of waking for the day between 9 and 10, napping for around 3 or 4 hours during the day. This is obviously contributing to her refusal to go down before 11pm at night, so I'm trying to get her up earlier and shorten her naps in a bid to bring bedtime forward to 7pm.

Today has been interesting. The new rules were going well until she got so tired she conked out for a third nap at 6.45pm (before I'd started the bedtime routine), thereby ruining my brilliant plans! hmm So I tried a 9pm bedtime instead, and got her down by ten, which is an improvement over 11/12 at least. We'll see how long she stays down, and how she reacts to the water instead of milk when she wakes in the night... [somewhat petrified emoticon]

Trying to get my christmas shopping all done online this week, which didn't get off to a great start when I utterly failed to find anyone to look after little A for a few hours this week. Not sure I'm going to get anything done while I'm looking after her. <sigh> I've tried the November online shopping for the last two christmases, and it's sooooooooo much easier than high street shopping in December! I don't trust posting times in December though, so it's online in Nov or battle it out in the shops!

By the way, is anyone getting an advent calendar for your baby? (Not counting toddlers). I was thinking of getting Little A one of those cloth calendars with the pockets which you put your own surprises in, but anything small enough to fit into the pocket would be a choking hazard. I might just leave it this year I think - what are you all doing?

jaggythistle Mon 19-Nov-12 22:46:37

aw, poor DS scarlet. hope it doesn't come to anything.

i have had an early night fail, but got my 4oz extra milk expressed, equipment washed, clothes out etc so sortedish for tomorrow.

R is still asleep since 9, I'm of course feeling guilty that it's because he's fallen on his poor head. DS1 seems to have settled ok, hope they don't decide to do tag team wake ups again tonight!

better try to get some sleep...

I didn't think things could be more stressful than they were but I was wrong. I hate money I hate houses I hate solicitors and estate agents and builders and roofers. I have just been in tears to dp and my folks. I want this week over. I feeling like I'm not sure it was a good idea to buy this house. What have we got ourselves into?

Oh no Ninja, what's happened? wine sad

Hope ds1 is better soon Scarlet - is it worth trying raisins or syrup of figs or something to try and clear him out? Glad the christening went well though. Yes please to pics smile. Hope the CBT works soon enough. Did you like the person? Nice to have a cancellation - did you find someone to look after dd or did you have to take her with you?

Scream - eeek for falling from standing. I have nearly nearly dropped ds2 in just the same way when he does an unexpected lurch. Bleurgh - these babies do test us don't they! Hope the bedtime thing works and she sleeps well for you tonight. You sound v organised with the Christmas shopping. We've done the boys and our niece, but not really anyone else's. we won't be doing an advent calendar for ds2. Ds1 had an advent calendar for the first time the year he was 2.3. Ds2 might get one next year if he's lucky (he'll be 1.9)

Cross post Ninja - what's happened? FWIW I hate moving house. No one seems to have any bloody morals and everyone seems to want to screw you over or rip you off sad. Is there anyone I can come round and sort out for you? thankswine

musicalmrs Mon 19-Nov-12 23:06:09

Two wake ups already here. Doesn't bode well.

Scarlet, glad the christening went well! Hope DS is better in the morning.

Scream, hope your boot camp works for the rest of the evening. Won't be getting Iz an advent calendar this year - will be getting a fabric-y thing (or rather, making one, I hope!) for next year. Not sure whether to do this myself, or whether to look for a kit in the after Christmas sales!

Biscuits, one of my friends' children was up on hands and feet for a couple of months before he got it. I'm not counting my chickens that Iz will get it soon, but judging by how desperate she is to get things - like catch the cats! - I'm thinking she might. If not, surely a Christmas tree will do it? That counts for all non-crawling brooking babies at that point...

Too, Iz does the rocking, side to side, sky driving thing too! Or at least used to - she's been doing it less over the last week, and been on her feet more. She also used to do either legs or arms (usually arms), but has just recently got the whole combining them thing - I think she keeps managing to make jumps forward somehow, and so is now persevering!

Didn't get round to finishing Christmas presents, but did get round to making marshmallows! They're in the fridge setting. Haven't attempted them before... desperate to see how they turned out!

Right, to bed...

It's just all a bit shit really. House needs structural work, we have quotes but v worried it'll be a money pit. Dp also miscalculated and left off vat on some stuff by mistake cue us realising we were 5k short for completion. My wonderful parents stepped in with a loan. It's a fucking nightmare, but hopefully I'll feel better once we are in. We just won't be able to afford to go anywhere ever again. Houses and childcare are stupidly expensive round here and I need to win the lottery. I think that about sums it up.

Right, I will gladly take all one of these waking up babies in exchange for a very very snorey husband.

Any takers?

Well Biscuits I ended up seeing out GP again today (who must be sick of the sight of us) as DS hasn't eaten since Saturday and has been doubled over in pain. He's never been constipated before but as he's not been sick or had the trots but feels bloated we think he must just need to do a poo but hasn't or won't for reasons unknown. I came out with 3 prescriptions, 2 for eczema cream and 1 for his still scabby head and nowt for his tummy confused. I asked the pharmacist about syrup of figs but he said it causes bad griping pains so I didn't bother. If he doesn't poo tomorrow I'll ring the GP and ask if it's ok for him to have lactulose.

Councillor lady seemed pleasant enough. She was very professional so it wasn't like talking to a friend, but she seemed confident she can help me. I'm so desperate for it to work I was in tears before we'd even started blush. Mum had DD for me. DS went to playgroup where apparently he was fine, although he didn't even any of his packed lunch so I'm not sure how they came to that conclusion.

Marshmallows sound yummy musical

Oh Ninja it is so stressful isn't it. I am sure though that you will feel better once you're in. You'll remember all the good things that made you want to buy the house in the first place rather than all the more troublesome points that seem to absorb all of your focus while you're completing the purchase.

<excuse me one moment>


<where were we?>

It probably doesn't help if you're all snuffly and coldy too sadI really do hope that you can get through the week without it being any more horrible and stressful thanks xx

Poor DS Scarlet sad. we were recommended SoF by a GP but he never mentioned the griping thing. If he is already doubled over in pain you don't want to add to it do you! Do you know when he last did a poo?

Glad the CBT is confident she can help. I am sure that you'll be feeling the benefits soon smile

Biscuits mine is snoring too, but unlike you I don't want to swap him. I need him here in case DS barfs. The last poo I know of was a small one Saturday morning. He shouts for me to come and wipe his bum grin.

That sounds shit * Ninja*, but your parents sound fab. Hopefully you'll feel better once you're in. Moving house is supposed to be one of the most stressful things you'll ever do.

Joining the multiple wake ups club, sigh. DD woke after a measley 45 mins (but fortunately just before the 11pm milk cutoff). Just as the milk was lulling her back to sleep there was a horrendous smell and I realised I would have to change her nappy. Wrestled her onto the changer only to discover that she has bad wind and a clean nappy blush It has taken a further half hour to get my now v pissed off baby back to sleep... sigh.

Hooray for Scarlet's DD's christening going well! Yes please to pics!! grin I hope DS feels better soon. Sending lots of hugs your way, I really hope the CBT works for you, and soon!

More hugs going out to Ninja. House buying SUCKS! Having work done to your house also sucks. sad However having a big gorgeous new house with space for your family and kitted out just the way you like it must be AMAZING! Hang in there!

Musical any chance a few of those marshmallows will find their way in here? grin Yum yum yum! Iz sounds like she's doing really well! Well done to her!

Biscuits miraculously when DD fell off my arm while I was standing she somersaulted 360 degrees and landed sitting upright in the chair I happened to be next to! shock It was like a bizarre circus trick! So she was amazingly unharmed <thank you thank you thank you universe> but I still went upstairs and sobbed on my Mum's shoulder for a bit at the mere thought of how different it could have been!

jaggythistle Tue 20-Nov-12 02:06:06

oh ninja that's rubbish. sad hope things get less stressful soon.

DS2 didn't even sleep till midnight. meh. then i feel asleep sitting up feeding him. again. now away to attempt transfer...

DH is actually not snoring right now shock


Mine are 7.5 months. Not up on knees, just roll off tummies, but can only roll that way, not scooting round anyhow... I'm worrying they'll never crawl like DD sad and that I'm not helping as not on tummies enough and as they just howl I just give them toys... Maybe they need to cry a bit for incentive to move, but they just get hysterical if i leave them. Hmm.

I'm worrying now, can't get S to sleep in his own cot again. he's been in with me since 1, walked round the house by dh when I tried to put him down to get B at 2ish. He's ill, so I'm letting it go but panicking I'm undoing all the work it took to get here.... All got coughs and colds, babies miserable, I'm knackered.

I definitely find when I'm more tired I worry over the children more but still can't see sense sad

ninja, there must have been a good reason you went for the house, just trust you'll love it once any horrible disruptive work is done . My dad would say never buy a house money can't fix ie wrong area, too small etc, doesn't sound like you've done that smile

I'm in with the millions of wake-ups, but hope everyone else's Brooking babies did better than mine!

Glad cbt has started scarlet

Oh, n I'm rubbish, chocolate advent calendar for dd

Ds1 had a choccie advent calendar when he was your dd's age (so either I'm rubbish too or neither of us are rubbish - I'm going with the latter). Ds1 has a wooden one with drawers that my MIL bought and then we put little chocolate Santa balls in each drawer and then each day I have to pick tiny shreds of Santa Claus foil out of the living room rug

Bf is Doing. My. Head. In. Ds2 is so easily distracted so if ds1 comes in / speaks / makes a noise / breathes / blinks / exists, ds2 just turns round to look at him either pulling on my boob as he turns round or just not bothering to let go at all confused. So then I end up having to send poor DS1 away so as to not distract ds2. sad poor ds1 - he's not being naughty or anything and I hate asking him to go to a different room - it's awful and sends him a horrible message sad. I think I'm nearing the end of my bf patience sad

Oh and when ds2 is feeding without looking round he is grabbing handfuls of boob or pulling the boob out of his mouth with his hand or scratching my chest confused

My iPhone autocorrect has decided today that instead of boob I must mean noob. hmm It is quite insistent on the matter. Wtf sort of word is noob - I've never ever used it (apart from twice now which will no doubt just further convince the phone that that's what I mean confused)

heehee noob.

How did M do in the end too? Brooking you got some sleep!

I didnt give dd1 an advent calendar when she was this age but last year did a fabric pocket one for her so will be doing one for the both of them this year. dd2's is more for dd1 seeing she has one really I guess!

So far for non choke-ables I have come up with:

Light up balloons

Punch ball balloons


Friendship bracelets in fabric

Chocolate (it's one of the major food groups don't ya know)

And Im trying to find cheap little mini cuddle animals things.

Everyone loves a balloon!!


12 midnight: Fourth wake up
1.15am: Fifth wake up
3ish: 6th wake up
6am: 7th wake up. Brought her into bed with me, where she fed a bit, howled for 3 seconds and then conked out, then repeated at intervals for 45 mins, at which point I had to get up to take DH to work and she fell asleep on DH's chest. Had I not had to get up I think she would have slept until 8.

<stumbles towards kettle, wondering how she managed to drive home in sleep-deprived state>

Oh yes, and the reason I needed to take DH to work so I could have the car was not for some wonderful fun thing, it was because I've got a smear test this afternoon. hmm I hear the universe laughing...

Ninja, brew, I don't know anything about house-buying in England, but am Brooking v hard that everything will be sorted out quickly and painlessly. It'll be okay - as everyone has said, think of the lovely new house and all the new space!

<ignores M pressing buttons on the BT Vision box with her feet. Will feign ignorance this evening when DH has to retune the telly>

Scarlet, so pleased you got the CBT early! Hoping that it helps, and that DS gets better v soon.

Scream, how did you get on with the no-milk bootcamp?

Biscuits, I would gladly have swapped you a wakeful baby for a snoring DH - at least you can poke DH in the ribs to make him stop, or failing that, one of you can move to the spare bed. Can I just say, I want to smack Elizabeth Pantley and her sleep-begetting-sleep theory?

oh and stickers and maybe wooden slide whistles too?

pomme I got a little fabric moose thing (kind of reindeerish) from ikea that was only 40p I think and suitable from birth. Small enough to fit in your hand am quite cute.

I had prodded and prodded DH to get him to stop - eventually I told him he'd have to go in the spare bed but would have to put the sheet and duvet cover on first as I'd just washed it. He magically stopped snoring at that point hmm

jaggythistle Tue 20-Nov-12 09:24:39

Tag team babies again last night sad More calpokl fell asleep instead of getting up and was nearly half an hour late for work. oops. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Thank you all for making me feel better. It does have more room, it is in quite a nice area (not as lovely as my current road, which is full of ugly flats and houses but lovely people, shame we couldn't afford a house here without needing well over half a million quid) and we will have several friends in nearby roads. The money thing is horribly stressful, we'd have been well and truly fucked without my folks i think. I know dp is stressed too as he's not sleeping well atm. We'll get there (we have too!). The building work is a bit stressful too as roofer is trying to get out of his guarantee as work needs doing as he cocked it up previously.
Boo to bad sleeping babies but yay to cbt for scarlet. Forgot all else, need to pack and make a million phone calls. My mum is coming up to help today though and dp's folks arrive tomorrow so at least i can get on while they look after the kids.

Aaaaaaaargh! Aaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrgggggggghhhhhhh! <and breathe> That feels better. M won't sleep, despite red eyes of tiredness. She is so grumpy and cross, but every time I try feeding her to sleep she twists and wriggles like a snake. She nearly fell off my knee, and when I sat her up she headbutted me in the jaw and cried, but still won't sleep. I took her temperature because she's so unhappy but it was normal. Oh, more howls. Back in a bit!

cakes82 Tue 20-Nov-12 12:12:50

The advent calenders sound good, I looked at chocolate advent calenders for me and dh because of course DD is too little I want to buy a nice decorative stocking for DD to go on our fireplace, we used to have an openfire but now we have a wood burning stove, just not sure how I would hang it,, I'd make one but don't think it would look as nice as ones sewing shop has sold previously plus I haven't managed to finish DD's cardi which is size 0-3 months lol

Ninja the house/ building work sounds difficult but like the others have said it will all be lovely when its finished

Biscuits Didn't have a snoring DH but did have one that wanted at least 2/3 of the bed. Perhaps if you get chance make bed up ready for tonight or get him to so its there ready and then perhaps hell respond to prods better. When I snored before being pg dh would kick me! Pg so far seems to have cured issue or i'm not asleep enough for either of us to notice lol

I think I have blocked ducts but not in an easy place to massage whilst feeding, its side that arm comes nearest to sad also when can af show its ugly head? Stomach feels like af considering appearance, never used to have pre symptoms but i'm trying a diff method of contraception.

We still chocolate advent calendars. MIL buys us one each grin I don't feel bad though I'm just making up for the years my mum would never buy me one grin. My mum would always say 'they're so expensive for the amount of chocolate. It would be better to just but a big bar and have a lump every day hmm. Oddly though that never materialised either!

Oh no - boo to blocked ducts cakes sad. It's really hard to massage there while they're feeding isn't it. Things I did for blocked ducts: hot water bottle on the sore bit when I went to bed; massage it before and after a feed; massage in the shower and / or use a wide toothed comb to massage it. Erm, maybe other things but I'm forgetting confused. Oh yes, the single best thing for blockages there was to feed rugby ball / under arm. That could clear it in one feed. If you can get their bottom lip working the same side as the blockage it really helps. Dream is also one of the worlds foremost experts on blocked ducts (sadly for her!).

This too shall pass Ninja - and soon - I shall brook no argument about it!

Too sounds like teething I think? Just random wild crying often = teething. Could try calpol? Or have you already?

cakes82 Tue 20-Nov-12 13:48:16

Oh my Cadburys chocolate Phily light delish!! Although apart from spreadable consistency you wouldn't know it was phily cheese

Love it! but only seem to be able to eat it by the tubfull blush

PetWoman Tue 20-Nov-12 14:52:41

Ooh, Advent calendars! We always had ones with pictures behind the doors when I was little - Advent is a time of fasting and preparation and boozy parties don't ya know? grin And we used to close the doors carefully before putting them away to reuse the next year. My mum sends me one every year. I'm 32. grin DS can share mine this year. But I'm going to put at least one chocolate penny in his stocking for Christmas day.

PetWoman Tue 20-Nov-12 15:07:44

Also mega boo for all the sleepless / poorly LOs. DS not sleeping well here either. Not crawling, either - he can shuffle backwards on his tummy, crying all the time because he wants to go forwards! He's not getting up on all fours or rocking yet so I think it'll be a while.

Scream earlier mornings to facilitate earlier bedtime sounds sensible. Hope it pays dividends soon.

Ninja that all sounds like a nightmare. sad When do you actually move in? I'm sure, as the others have said, it will be worth it in the end and you'll never have to do it again .

Dream my little sister got worms a few times - I think my mum checked her pants cos she kept scratching her bum. I just remember cos we all had to drink that foul purple liquid. <boak> But my DSis was a thumb-sucker and I can see that that would make her more likely to catch them. Anyway, hope you get rid of them without stress or foul purple drinks .

Cakes massaging the area in the shower with a wide-toothed comb rubbed in soap, and expressing a bit at the same time, unblocked a couple of ducts for me. Good luck.

Oh, for an Advent calendar with pockets, what about tiny nativity scene figures? So each day they can add to the tableau? I guess lots of sheep would be required to fill 24 pockets though!

I kind of thought she had to have a temp for Calpol to be advised. She does seem happier post-nap, though. Just nipping out to collect DH (and give Biscuits' sister a lift home!) - back soon.

Calpol is paracetamol for babies. If I had a headache I would take some without worrying if I have a temperature so kind of apply the same theory to DD IYSWIM Too

Not that we have a thermometer so wouldn't know if any of us had a temperature anyway...

Agree with rubber although also it took me a long time to be brave enough to give it to ds1 without him actually having a temperature to 'prove' my solution iyswim. It's not like they can tell you they're in pain, which was my problem. But now if there is no temp I just go on how he seems in himself - you know if he seems particularly distressed or seems to have an area that hurts.

Hope my sis has behaved herself too smile

We do have a thermometer but I can pretty much tell their temperature by touch these days smile

She was very well behaved, Biscuits! wink I made DH buy a £40 ear thermometer the day M had her first jabs. blush Mind you, it took a lot of wrestling to get it into her ear this morning. I tried letting her suck it but it wouldn't register a temperature that way. M does seem better now - perhaps it was just tiredness. confused

Cakes, Brooking No Argument that the symptoms of blocked ducts vanish sharpish!

I got bollocked for a GP for having no thermometer when DD was 1 ish and I took her... blush I used to rely on dh getting home and using his work one! Worth it too

Day 5 of illness here. DD 39.3 overnight. S only sleeping in my bed, up on the pillows, and only if hid head is touching mine. How have we got so bad in 5 nights with the sleep habits?!,<despair emoticon>

So, dh has had a crap night with me helping with multiple ill children, but he's got a £400 exam today, a viva so hard anyway...

jaggythistle Wed 21-Nov-12 11:17:47

i use my now redundant charting bbt thermometer in armpits! it's quite accurate. smile

DS1 slept all night and DS1 only up twice between 11 and 6 so a lot better sleep for me. DS1 still not right and not eating much though. i haven't bothered measuring his temp, he feels hot though. sad

oh dream, I'm sure once they're better the sleep will get back to as normal as possible. sad

Good luck to your DH, Dream - Brooking that he sails through his exam with flying colours.

God sleep deprivation is so yucky. Poor dh dream (and you of course!!)

I am trying the mumsnet gammon in coke thing today. I have quite a big slow cooker and the gammon joint is just sitting there with a few cm of coke and bbq sauce splashing around its bottom. Is that right??? There's two cans of coke and half a bottle of the bbq sauce in there. I am so not a natural cook. In fact Im a terrible cook.

cakes82 Wed 21-Nov-12 13:11:59

Hope dh gets on ok dream and your three feel better soon so they start sleeping again.

Pomme I'm not much of a cook either so can't help i'm afraid it sounds good tho

cakes82 Wed 21-Nov-12 13:20:28

Peculiar one, not sure if it was blocked ducts yesterday, did the shower water on it massage and rugby ball feed and after the feed it already felt better and by bedtime could barely tell so am wondering if it is linked to fact some of DDs feeds have been further apart and body hadn't caught up confused.

Yay for better boobs cakes smile. Could be the boobs catching up or could be that you cleared the blockage - it can happen in one feed and you'll feel better almost immediately smile. Whatever it was, glad it's better! smile If I felt the signs of a blockage starting I could sometimes stop it with a massage and hot water bottle at bedtime.

Good luck to MrDream today smile

No idea on the gammon Pomme but It sounds yum - you'll have to let us know how it turns out. I've tried a sausage casserole in my slow cooker today but my slow cooker is a bit shite and has hot spots so you have to stir it really regularly to stop it sticking. Which rather rules out the idea of sticking it on before you go out and coming back to something gorgeous and warming for tea!

On that topic I'd like a new SC - any recommendations? And what size do I need to feed 4?

Oh and Dream hope your three are better soon and the sleeping improves thanks. Don't worry too much about taking backward steps with it - you just have to do what you can while they're poorly and sort it out when they're better really don't you. Easier said than done - I always worried I was letting our good habits slide when Ds1 was poorly.

How bad is it that in having to cuddle ds2 to sleep for naps (unless we're in the car or pushchair)? What should I be doing instead? I'm trying to bring in a comforter but it is taking a long time. Mostly I have to cuddle him until he's calm and then hold his hand once he's laid in the cot until he's properly dropped off. confused How bad is that? (Be gentle.....)

God, ds1 is like a bloody elephant today just jumping around the house making a frigging racket while I'm trying to get ds2 to nap - gah!

Mine is from john Lewis biscuits - my mum got me it for Xmas a few years ago. It's massive. I fill it half way up and that would be 5 ish adult size portions.

Its a good one, think it would be even better in the hands of someone more competent! The problem I have is that dd1 is not very keen on the normal meat and veg stews I do in it.

I dont think cuddling to sleep is that bad if you have no plans like work that mean you won't be around in the day. He'll stop napping at some point smile

Cuddling/ handholding to sleep in a cot sounds bloody marvellous to me biscuits . I just dunk B in with white noise on and that's it, but S has to be put into outdoor clothing, then into buggy, can sometimes be rocked to sleep in hall but will always need fairly constant buggy rocking/jiggling to stay asleep. So basically its easier to go out and walk both and exercise DD so B gets minimal sleeping in cot practice!!

Dh has survived the exam but says they were asking about health surveillance stats, and specific ones, like what % of people return to work within a year of being signed off with back pain... He said his poor tired brain struggled, especially as its face to face, going round the stations meeting different examiners plus he got less than optimal revision done so he's a bit hmm about how it went...

Ill children are no fun. Fact.

pomme sounds yummy, I'm never sure if its meant to be covered/ pretty well covered in the liquid, so let us know! I'm a rubbish cook too, and I think I'm actually getting worse confused

Ill children are no fun. Fact.

I hear you Dream. FFS DS is still not well. He's barely eaten since Saturday, still saying he's got tummy ache, is as white as a sheet and is absolutely knackered with horrible dark shadows under his eyes. My panic system has gone into overdrive and I'm just exhausted with worrying about him. I've had enough of it! The GP is now referring him for a Celiac blood test. I'd hate for him to be Celiac, but at least if he was it would explain why he's so tired, pasty and off it all the time and we could then manage it.

Fingers crossed for good results for your DH Dream. I hope your 3 give you a better night tonight.

Let us know about the gammon pomme. It sounds so weird as a recipe but I know people rave about it on here.

How are your boys today Jaggy?

I went to have a look at a school for DS this morning. T'was horrible, I hated it! It's the second nearest one to us so I just have to hope the nearer one is nicer. We're having a look there next week. I felt like crying when I saw 60 reception kids in one classroom tearing round, it was chaos! I can't send my PFB into that madness.

Poor DS scarlet sad. Really hope they find what it is ASAP and fix it. Also sorry the school was dreadful sad. Brooking no argument that the one next week scores an A+.

I broke the microwave door this morning, which means it no longer works. What I did not really want to hear at this point was ds1 saying 'well I think we know the lesson there Mummy. When closing microwave doors you should Be. More. Careful' hmm.

I realise now how obnoxious and annoying I must seem to him sad.

I am feeling quite virtuous after an afternoon where I taught ds1 to zip his coat up, spent a bit of time looking at how to tell the time with him, and played a game of balloon tennis (throughout which ds1 was making the kind of noises that the professional tennis makers play when they hit the ball grin).

Argh, just bathed the boys and then I always read ds1 a story and put him to bed before I give DS2 his last feed. So ds2 decided this was completely unacceptable tonight and just cried all the way through trying to read ds1's story and could not be settled (because he wanted feeding). So not exactly ds2's fault as he was only hungry but not poor old ds1's fault either. Once again he got the short end of the stick sad. Poor wee fella sad

musicalmrs Wed 21-Nov-12 19:46:41

Popping in while putting Iz to bed..

Pomme, I haven't tried the Mumsnet recipe, but I've been cooking gammon in coke on the hob for years. I got it from my mother, who I think may have gotten it from a Nigella recipe? For any that are interested, I think the recipe was simply to put gammon in a large saucepan (after soaking if you so wish), cover with full fat coke (cheap will do, it's the sugar you're after), and add an onion chopped in half. Cook for as long as you would normally boil it for - think it says on the packet. You can then take it out and do fancy things like add glaze and breadcrumbs- I'm usually too lazy..

Dream, when will your DH find out the results? Sounds very tough, even without sleep deprivation.

Biscuits, hurrah for virtuous-ness - sounds like a highly successful day. I wouldn't worry about the cuddling personally.. as long as you get the naps in, have a happy DS2 and a happy you then that's what matters!

Marshmallows were very successful. Next attempt will be a fancy flavour- though not sure what..

I have a crawling DD! It takes her a while to get anywhere at the moment because it's as if she has to think really hard to remember what she did last time - but I'm sure she'll speed up soon. Think it's time to baby proof and clear the alcoves in the coffee table then...

biscuits, where do you feed ds2? can you all sit on your bed so you can feed and read and ds1 have a kiss and get into his own bed? He sounds like he had lots of quality mummy time this afternoon though, but arf at the microwave door smile

scarlet if it helps, when my boys had that severe diarrhoea my paediatrician friend said viruses in children can last much longer than in adults, so if you'd expect to be better in 2-3 days with diarrhoea as an adult, a child can be 2 weeks. I hope its not coeliacs but at least he's being tested.

Can't settle my poor coughing S. DD hot again. Ffs.

Remembered why i stopped much tummy time again as I've done some more- they just vomit everywhere. When does everyone else do it?! I always tell parents little and often, but with weaning and milk feeds they've always just eaten and then are reliably sick if put on their tummies, so I feel bad for feeding them then making them sick!! If I avoid tummies, and they've not got colds like now (S vomiting after every feed/;meal, profusely) they're hardly sick. Hmm.

Yay for your crawling DD musical!

& now back to S's 4th wake up of the evening...

Well done Iz, Musical! Gosh, how old is she now?

Scarlet, Brooking that it's not coeliac, whatever that is. Is that being intolerant to gluten?

M gets a fair bit of rolling-around-on-the-floor time, Dream - since she started rolling properly she moves around a lot and usually ends up lying on her tummy struggling to move forward and howling.

M has learned to clap today! It's not as impressive as crawling, but it looks very cute.

Oh, and M still voms a lot. Weirdly, she voms most after a milk feed now, even when she's upright.

jaggythistle Wed 21-Nov-12 21:26:59

DS1 actually ate some dinner and asked for some more babybel scarlet. he slept all night last night after the 2 restless ones as well. just hoping DS2 doesn't get it too.

fx that they work out what's up with your poor DS. DS1 is also pale with the dark circles, i hate when he gets like that. sad

your poor wee bairns as well dream.

brooking for fast recovery all round!

Clever clapping M too! Sounds really cute- determined til her patience runs out then wails smile . What does the dog make of her mobility?!

The boys get some floor time but high risk of getting trounced by DD so not enough imo. Plus we are out every morning for my sanity so they're in the buggy smile They both posset a bit after feeds, but not always, but if i put them down sitting up after meals they're often fine, lie them on their tummies = guaranteed vom. Gah. I think they'll just have to vom some more! I also think in view of DD and dhs family, they're just not going to be early. They're not late at anything yet, both can roll side to side and tummy to back happily, sit very well, reach out for toys, manipulate them well. They're just not mobile. I should be very grateful for this, and I'm trying to be! I'll keep my babies as little babies longer smile . DD was the same and still walked at 10.5 months- if you put her on her feet. Her lack of crawling meant she was stuck otherwise though!

X post jaggy awful when they're ill, I'm glad he ate some tea. And that you got some sleep, I've no.idea how you managed at work after your terrible night...

How was your slow cooker masterpiece pomme? Formula sleeping cure still working? When b is better going to re-challenge him with dairy. to move forward with formula-to-sleep plan as I hear the cmp free ones taste grim n hard to introduce over 6m

jaggythistle Wed 21-Nov-12 21:51:40

quite badly! i was a bit late on Monday and v late yesterday! i also drank coffee in the afternoon and my friend was shock and said "you must be tired" because i never really drink tea and coffee.

right. DS2 in bed, must do the expressing dishes. if anyone is interested, expressing going well and DS2 has figured out drinking from bottles, yay! i think the variable flow teats must be closer to my fast milk flow as he seems to like them.

Argh ds2 has been up for an hour and a half now sad. Tried calpol about 30 mins ago but he's still crying. I felt irrationally cross with DH for (a) not knowing where the calpol was (it is always in the same place) and then (b) when I asked him to put the cot blocks in (DS sounds snotty) he just put them in and went back to bed without even asking if we were ok (we weren't because DS was crying!). So then when I finally went in with DS still crying and said 'I just don't know what's wrong with him' he said 'oh I imagine its just teething'. Right. Fine. I'll just stand with him crying all night then as long as that's all it is hmm. And then to add insult to injury he finally did get up after I flounced out following the 'only teething' comment and took DS off me who then stopped crying! confused Obviously this is good really but talk about making me feel rubbish! sadconfusedhmmblush

Pah! What a useless lump I am sad

Oh dear I'm a terrible waste of space! Now DH has got him calmed down but is sat with DS dozing on him in the chair so I can't even take over for him as DS is finally calm. So now I'm going back to bed while DH sits up and it's a work night and everything sad This is all wrong! I'm not doing a very good job of this parenting malarky sad

jaggythistle Thu 22-Nov-12 01:08:37

you're not rubbish or useless. <stamps foot for emphasis>

it's just One of Those Nights ®. I'm sure DH will be ok. i am rendered useless after about 1 minute of crying. normally at this point DH asks if I've tried feeding DS2 and i threaten violence. blush

hope you all get a rest. just up feeding DS2 for the first time since before 10. <faints> DH is starting to snore and i can't reach him as I'm being good and sitting in my chair instead of bed. <mutters>

off to attempt transfer...

^ exactly what jaggy says biscuits, I was in tears when b was inconsolable and dh was up about 4 times before an exam the night before last. One Of Those Nights. Babies know if we're worried. Your dh was clearly feeling calmer, so therefore e stopped crying. End of.

Dh has has DD in bed with him as i had DT1 in bed with me all night last night. He is grumpy now, describes it as like sharing a bed with a ferret on acid.

How does he know Dream hmmwink

grin at the ferret on acid.

Biscuits may I remind you that it was not that long ago that you said DS2 would not settle for your DH at all, ever?! Therefore you have had a successful night. DS2 doesn't know it's a work night and sometimes these things just happen like that. I was so tired last night I ignored DD's monitor alarm thing when she'd rolled off her mat. I heard DH starting to get up so I just pretended to still be asleep. Just because you don't have work it doesn't mean you need less sleep. Anyway, it won't hurt DH if it's only now and again.

Wow and yay for DD crawling Musical that's very advanced! Yes, it's time to baby proof, she'll have fun with your Christmas tree this year.

DS still not well. He refused his breakfast for the 4th day running, is cold, tired and tearful. A day in for us today sad

Thank you for being so kind. Dream I think you might have hit the nail on head with me not being relaxed maybe DS picked up on me wailing 'pleeeeease just go to sleep' hmm. I think it would be fair to say I was feeling tired and emotional last night blush.

I've forgotten what else I read... Hold on....

Scarlet sorry ds1 is still poorly. Poor thing! Have the doctors got any more advice / ideas?

A couple of times our monitor sensor may has gone off and I've been totally bewildered because it sounds a lot like my alarm but both times DH has leapt out of bed and been in there before I've figured out where I am blush. Odd though that it seems to wake him up so thoroughly when normally he's pretty much unconscious hmm.

Mat not may

PetWoman Thu 22-Nov-12 08:46:46

grin at the ferret on acid comment, Dream .

Also grin at your DS's timely moralistic microwave comment, Biscuits .

I think Jaggy's example of doing night feeds and working puts our DHs to shame, really. If she can get up in the night and still go to work the next day, so can they, surely? Not that mine does.

Sorry that people are still struggling with poorly LOs. No brooking that they wake up feeling miraculously better today.

I was up between 2.30-3.30am with DS, who was happy to sleep on me but not in the cot. Finally got him settled, then he woke again at 4. Ffs. At that point he joined us in bed.

Musical well done to Iz! Exciting!

Oh yes I keep forgetting to say huge well done to Iz smile. Can she come and teach E? Although actually I quite like him staying where I put him confused

Yyy, Pet has it right. If Jaggy can get up in the night and go and do what sounds like a v difficult job during the day, then our DHs should stop moaning at having to do it every once in a while. Particularly mine, as a council worker. I know perfectly well what his day is like and it's a piece of piss not exactly strenuous, most of the time.

Scarlet, sad poor DS. I hope he feels better soon.

Biscuits, don't fret at DH having to do one night! As Scarlet says, it's great that DS2 will settle on him, and they both need to practice that or DS2 will forget and go back to only settling on you.

Speaking of which, last night was a bit of a shambles bedtime-wise. M was ready for bed by 8.30ish (later than usual due to a late nap in the car), and DH took her from me and said he would try to put her down. This following a long discussion about how tired I was and how badly M had slept on Monday night. She hadn't had her last feed, but he went off before I could say anything. After a few minutes I could hear M roaring with rage at this new innovation, so I went and stuck my head round the door and suggested that I feed her. M spotted me and went 'oh good, here's the food'. DH handed her to me and flounced out, saying 'well, you've ruined that one'. I fed M and calmed her down, but she was far too wound up to go to sleep, so I took her back to the living room and let her play for a bit. Second attempt at bed failed. And third attempt. By this time we were in our bedroom reading to her in the bed, and she was biting her fingers and had scarlet cheeks, which I always associate with teething (my little siblings always went really rosy when they were teething), so I decided she must be and gave her some Calpol. This was at about 10pm. DH said he'd look after her while I had a bath, so he sang to her quietly and when I came out of the bath half an hour later they were both asleep on the bed. I managed to get her into her cot without waking her and she slept for 4 and a half hours! So partial success in that DH got her to sleep eventually, but it also could have been the Calpol. No teeth have appeared, but she's got a bit of a nasty cough today, so it could have been that. She was up at 3, then 5 and I spent the best part of an hour putting her back down then. Then she was up again at 7, so I brought her into bed with me and we both slept until 8.40, which felt great!

Also grin at ferret on acid.

Poor poorly M Too - all these illnesses going round / it's awful isn't it. DS2 is really snotty today so I suspect that was part of the problem last night sad. He's currently have a full on argument with a firefly toy on his car seat hmm

Lucky ds1 has gone to pre school today - lucky for him because I'm a horrible shouty tired person today blush.

jaggythistle Thu 22-Nov-12 11:02:25

I'm a bit blush too at the idea of my job being super difficult. grin

it's the nicest lab job I've had, i think getting up and out for any job would be effort!

I'm trying to think if i can tell you what i do without outing myself if anyone searched my username. <yeah, I'm paranoid>.

the biggest problem will be not falling asleep in meetings or the million safety training course things I've to catch up on. the lab is usually busy enough to keep me awake!

ah bugger it. i do quality control of alcoholic beverages. so the hardest thing is like any production environment, somebody always wants something analysed quickly!

jaggythistle Thu 22-Nov-12 11:04:07

i know that sounds a bit like a made up occupation for alcoholics. grin

hawthers Thu 22-Nov-12 11:29:18

Yo yo brookers

Sorry I've been AWOL. Have been reading and lurking but not found the time to post without whining a lot!

Quick catch up from over here - ds1 started preschool and he is there every morning and two afternoons so by the time I've dropped him off and put some washing on or gone to the store I've got to go back and pick him up so been rather rushed recently. Ds2 has started crawling and has an obsession with the stairs which is a total pain in the arse as we've got about a bajillion stairs in our house and we can't put stair gates on every single little set of stairs.

Other big news is that our nanny starts on Monday and I go back to work on 3 dec. I'm terrified about going back. My job is heavily brain orientated and stuff changes every year so even if I could remember everything it has all shifted anyway (think George Osborne related).

too well done m on clapping - f still isn't doing this but is quite happy to bash two bricks together

dream f still yacks everywhere frequently am not sure what will help now walking perhaps.

biscuits you are not rubbish and we all have our screechy days especially me this morning when ds1 spilled his milk everywhere this morning again

jaggy you are doing amazingly being at work and dealing with the wake ups

pet dh gets up with ds1 whenever he wakes but only because he is very particular and if I go in he kicks off massively and musts wants his daddy ha ha ha!

scarlet hope your ds gets better soon

Right f awake and I need to leg it to school to get ds1

Massive brooking to all the ill and non sleeping babies out there, poor them and poor mummies. Brooking for immediate improvements all round.

Hope you get some answers from the tests scarlet.

biscuits - you always sound like such a patient mummy, dh helping one night and you getting stressed is really normal! You're always very understanding about his work, pretty sure one night won't hurt him!

Yay for crawling muscial now the trouble starts

dream - gammon was really good! Unfortunately I managed to undercook the rice so the whole meal wasn't brilliant but hey ho! Very yummy and so easy!!

I hate to say it but yes, formula still working here and we have sleep throughs - occasional moany whinging at 4am but only lasts 2-3 mins so I dont bother going in and she goes off again. Sure it will all change now I've said/written that! If you do go onto to specialised formula I have a tin of neocate unopened in my cupboard I could send you if you wanted??? Smells grim, A was never anti it but was anti bottles so could only ever manage two sips out of a beaker rendering it pointless so I stopped it.

How's DS1 getting on at pre-school Hawthers? Are you going back full time or part time? Have you had a nanny before? It hardly seems possible your DS2 is coming up for his first birthday.

Jaggy now I know the real reason you spend your breaks at work expressing. It's because of all that alcohol you must get to taste. Doesn't sound like work to me! Of course I know it's much more scientific than that really.

I'm procrastinating big time. I've so much tidying and ironing etc to do but I just cannot be arsed. DS is all snuggly on the sofa watching CBeebies, DD is asleep and I'm online trying to write their Christmas lists.

Hawthers I was wondering where you were! Your job sounds like mine - quite taxing? wink

More later but have to pay for my shopping in Sainsburys......

hawthers Thu 22-Nov-12 12:24:19

DS1 getting on ok but doesn't seem to have made friends but he is only 3 so hopefully he will in time?

I'm going back part time but not feeling inspired except the thought if going to the loo with the door closed sounds like heaven

Indeed biscuits very taxing indeed cta hnwi type taxing (is that too cryptic?) for the biggest of the firms.

Ah I worked for the smallest of big firms but did training in my latter days. Can't say I miss it much though blush

Arf at going to the loo with the door closed grin

Don't panic about making friends yet hawthers he's still young and there's plenty of time smile. At about 3 and a half to 4 (I think) they start to think about playing with others rather than just near them iyswim and I think they mix more then.

How are you getting on with your school year deferral?

Yes don't worry about the making friends part of it yet Hawthers. I'm told it's completely normal that they just play alongside each other rather than with each other until nearer 4. DS is only just starting to come home and tell me about his friends and what they've been playing and he's 4 next month. He's been there for 2 years already.

Yep, ds1 has only really started talking about his friends since he went back in September and that's when he turned 4. Loads of the children were there last year too so it's like he's only noticing them this year?

I know it's worrying though especially when you are already worried about him starting school etc but I can honestly say in August, when ds1 was about 3.11 I thought 'thank goodness he's not off to school next month, he's not ready'. But he was like a different boy since he went back in September and I actually think if he were at school now, it might be a little challenging but he'd probably be fine. His writing, reading etc all just seems to be coming together since he turned 4 (not that he can read or write yet but you know what I mean, there is some vague progress). Also he has suddenly started to draw actual 'things' rather than just scribbles iyswim. Things that I can (sometimes) tell what they are too, and have a vague stab at colouring a picture in rather than scribbling over the whole page. I know some of his friends (mainly girls) could do some of these things already but apparently boys wrists develop later so they are naturally later starting to write and draw etc.

I'm ruling. I'm going to sit down with a cuppa instead and try to find some patience and inner zen before I go to fetch my pfb smile

biscuits - dd1 often tells me her scribbles are specific things (normally me, her sister or a rabbit) but they really are just scribbles! However if I was a certain type of mum I might omit the last bit if relating it to others...

angry I just want to make a f*cking doctor's appointment! I tried to make an appt for M (to get her scabby nipples looked at) after my smear test on Tues and was told that they had no free appointments, but if I called on Thurs morning between 8.30 and 9.30 I could make one then. Naturally, I forgot. So I tried calling just now on the off-chance, and was told to call on Monday or Thursday to make appts for the following week. So the earliest I can get an appointment is not next week but the week after, and I have to phone within an hour's window on Monday. Alternatively I can phone up every morning to see if they have a cancellation, but given that I don't have transport unless I specifically take DH to work, that's no fucking good. DH is leaving at 7ish and the earliest I can call the surgery is 8.30, so I can't call before he leaves for work. angry angry

That's bad Too. So there's basically only 2 windows per week where you are allowed to ring and make an appointment shock. Have you got a walk in centre you could go to? I try and avoid them as they're usually full of people with horrible germs, but at least you know you'll get seen when it's convenient to you. Last time I was there someone sat down next to me wearing pyjamas and absolutely stank of shit. Needless to say I moved very quickly. Sorry that's not helpful I know...

Have you tried posting in children's health on here?

That's awful Too! Surely they must have appointments for more urgent things that are available more quickly? Our doctors can make routine appts in advance but then has appointments available every day and you can ring up each morning at 8 to get an appt that day. And they will always try to see a baby / under 5 on the same day. I've never had a problem getting an appt for either of the boys. That sounds really poor sadangry

And yes, 2 x 1 hour windows for making appts is awful! What if you had a job where you can't make calls and you worked at those times?

If the doctors really can't make you an appt I would complain and go to a walk in centre (being careful not to sit by smelly people - that sounds hideous scarlet sad)

I was too annoyed at the time, and M was howling very loudly so I could hardly hear a word the woman was saying, but I think the only option is to say that yes, a minor rash is an emergency and I want an appt NOW. It really irks me, this stuff, because it isn't an emergency and I don't want to use up emergency appt times, but at the same time I don't want to wait 2 weeks. I'm not sure about walk-in centres near us - probably the nearest is Edinburgh. I've asked DH to phone and say it's an emergency. M has a highly irritating habit of seeming quite happy until I'm halfway through a phone call and then starting to howl like a banshee. I am going to complain.

too - Say emergency. I had to basically say a teething baby was an emergency the other week as I couldn't be sure it was only teething. I normally say 'Well she's x months old so very little and very distressed'. I would have thought the howling would have helped.

<pretending to not have read scarlet's walk in nightmare story>

May I ask your collective opinion on something?

Fibbing. By ds1. Very minor things but how hard should I crack down on it? Two examples:

1. A few weekends ago we were trying to get him to do stand up wees and he wasn't too keen. Anyway, he caught on that if he was doing a poo he could do a sit down wee so every time we tried a stand up wee he'd say 'oh I need a poo', then sit down, do a wee and then say 'oh I don't think I do need a poo....' Now, the first time I pulled him up on it and said that he shouldn't tell me a fib, he should tell me the truth if he really doesn't want to so a stand up wee. So I wasn't that bothered in the grand scheme of things whether he stood up or not. What I objected to was him deliberately setting out to try and 'trick' me.

2. This evening I asked him to take toy back to the playroom, which he did. I thought I heard him chick it into the room (but could have been chucking it in the box of cars) and I thought well I didn't actually tell him to put it away, so I asked him whether he put it away or just on the floor. Nb I wasn't cross at all, it was genuinely just an enquiry. He said he'd put it away. Then a few minutes later said 'don't go and check though'. When I turned round I could see it in the doorway, not in the box. So again a pointless fib over something stupid. And again I wasn't bothered if he'd not put it in the box I just wanted to know whether I should go and do it, but he opted for a fib rather than the truth.

So as I said they are really minor things, but I have an absolute hatred of dishonesty of any sort (as does DH). Ridiculously so. (We have a family member who just lies for the sake of it and I hate it. And I have this ridiculous worry that I wouldn't want my children to be like that). For example, if I was ever undercharged in a shop I would go back and rectify it, but my mum (who is not the family member mentioned above) will tell me how she's realised she's been undercharged or given too much change and just left quickly.
This horrifies me. I can't abide dishonesty.

So, I know he's only 4, and I am not naive enough to think that he will always tell me the 100% honest truth. However, I really don't want him to tell me a fib when I just ask a bloody question.

So how tough should I be or am I massively over reacting. I have no idea how much fibbing you'd expect from a 4 year old?

I am aware that I have a major hang up over it all and in struggling to see what would be a reasonable expectation of him.

Please help me. I don't know whether I should be setting my store out as in 'its completely unacceptable, never ever fib' or to just let it slide?

Honestly? For the most part I'd let it slide. I think that as long as you know he's fibbing you can choose your battles. The wee one is understandable. He doesn't for whatever reason want to wee standing up. That's ok, he's only 4. He won't want to do it when he realises his friends don't but that's ages away.

The toy one would maybe bother me, because it was laziness and he could have then gone and put it away rather than fib . So I probably would pull him up on that.

So in short, choose your battles wisely. He will fib at times, they all do I'm sure. If you make a major issue every time he will just learn to become better at it. I'd rather him think he's got away with something small so he doesn't get too good at fibbing for me to realise.

But that's only my opinion. You obviously feel very strongly about it so I understand why you want to pull him up on it.

Mmm. I don't think either of those examples are too terrible. The 'don't go and check, though' bit made me giggle. V cute! Um, how about trying to make your point very lightly? How about maybe making a bit of a joke of it and perhaps saying something like you're going to have to tickle him for telling fibs and chase him around growling and tickling? So it's a big game, but he knows you're not fooled? NB: have just realised that you can't tickle a boy who is sitting on the toilet. Maybe not with that particular example. grin

Or perhaps read some books with a strong moral?

Hmmm yes, I think maybe I like the light touch idea. You're both right - of course they're not big issues, but I don't want him to think it is ok to try to pull the wool over my eyes. It's the fact that they're such silly little thing that foxes me. DH agrees that we shouldn't let it slide but I don't want to be having to tell him off over tiny things when really the issue is lot whether he put the toy away it's that he didn't tell the truth.

And of course I do understand that he was reluctant to do the wee thing. But again I would far rather he just told me the truth. But I can see that it might look different to him. It was obviously An Issue for him so presumably seemed much more important whereas I'm thinking 'its fine if he doesn't want to do it, he'll get it eventually'. Incidentally, he did get it that weekend in the end and has been fine with them ever since smile.

We did have a tall quite recently about telling the truth and how he should always tell the truth to us, and the teachers etc. and he said 'but you shouldn't tell the truth about if you've hurt yourself?' hmm Errrr, no, it's kinda essential that you tell the truth if you're hurt. He will get it won't he?

I'm sure he'll get it! He's not doing the attention-seeking sort of fibs that would make me go hmm. I have a friend (v close friend, went to school together, were each other's bridesmaids etc) who tells silly little fibs, and they are always aimed at making herself seem smarter/stronger/richer/more dramatic etc. Like, for example, when the 7th Harry Potter book came out she said she read it in 3 hours while watching America's Next Top Model on TV at the same time. Now, that's a very big book, I know I read faster than she does, and it took me a day and a half of almost constant reading. <outs self as total HP geek> It was such a silly fib, very obvious. There were more when we were younger - telling people she had a pony, that sort of thing. I'd be a bit more worried about that sort of fib, because it's born of insecurity. The examples you gave are more about laziness. grin So I think he'll grow out of it!

musicalmrs Thu 22-Nov-12 21:03:47

Biscuits, I'd agree with the light touch. Things that suggest to him it's not a good idea, but without making it too big a deal? I especially like Too's moral book idea - there must be some books on the topic? (If not, let's write one!).

Too, did you get an emergency appointment? I know I'd have to do that if I wanted an appt for Iz as our surgery's shocking. Reminds me, I need to make an appointment for next wk - must phone them...

A bit TMI, and I know I mentioned this before, but does anyone still have any issues with SFF? Still not the most comfortable thing here- hence why I think I need to make a doctors appointment. The smear a couple of months back was incredibly painful...

Back to things less TMI-y. Today Iz managed to pull herself up to standing for the first time. First the crawling now this... blimey! Must babyproof, and quickly... that's my day tomorrow sorted!

Brooking for better nights all round. One of the other mums at baby group said their DC slept better as soon as their first tooth broke through. Sooooo hoping that's the case here, as Iz's sleeping started getting worse as her teething symptoms got worse. Surely this tooth should be here soon...

I'm sure Enid Blyton featured fibbing children being despised by their peers...can't think of an example right now, though. Dh says The Boy Who Cried Wolf!

DH phoned and got the same rigmarole. He was offered an emergency appt for 4.30, but he couldn't have got home quickly enough to pick M up and get back to the surgery in time. So I'm to phone tomorrow and get her booked into the emergency clinic at 4.30. DH finishes earlier on a Friday and will be home by 4.

Musical, blimey, Iz is off! Well done! On the SFF front, it's been so long since we did it I've forgotten...blush But no, my smear didn't hurt at all, and SFF only hurts when DH gets a bit overenthusiastic, shall we say. M was born by CS, though, and I haven't had a tear, so perhaps Biscuits or Dream can advise you better.

cakes82 Thu 22-Nov-12 21:59:06

Musical TMI too- I had a fail at the attempt at SFF because it hurt before we got very far but your child is older than mine so I guess you should be feeling better by now,,,

Brilliant with Iz standing although babyproofing sounds a fun job.

The last two nights DD has slept extremely well bed by 8 both nights 2 wake ups tue and one last night, have probably just jinxed it now.

Hope all the ill brookers are feeling much better and sleeping well.

Those of you on the Brooking FB group may have already seen my photo of DD in her Christening dress. Jaggy and Pet I've just put one on here especially for you.

SFF only happened once here, months ago so I can't advise Musical. I've had recurrent thrush ever since hence me stopping BFing so I can have some more effective treatment. Canesten is just not up to it. I was due a smear while pg which I'm still putting off because of it. Deffo see your doc, you should really be ok down there by now I'd have thought.

musical - I can't remember if you had a bad tear or not? I had an episiotomy with dd1 and a second degree tear no stitches with dd2 and sff and smear test with dd1 all fine by the 8 week mark. I'd go and get checked just in case if I were you.

biscuits - I agree with too that they are both lies about being a bit lazy so I probably wouldn't worry too much as I'd feel i understood the reason why. No harm in talking about lying being bad though!

musical, I had a lot of pain after my third degree tear. I remember being in tears at about 5 months post birth after another aborted attempt as it was still too painful. We first managed to dtd, not pleasant either, when DD was 6 months, and it slowly improved, and I was pg again by the time she was 10 months and able to do a ttc Shagathon so mine did get better, but definitely only really comfortable the last few weeks of ttc the dts. I was going to have it checked if it carried on any longer, in case the stitches were too tight or something. Luckily for me it was fine, but tmi, I still find if its sore, its sore at the back where I tore and I get some stinging still, but not all the time and DD is 2.2!!! Mostly its absolutely fine though.

Sorry blush

scarlet I doubt this is any help but DD has refused breakfast for about a week, mostly refuses everything actually. I may be able to persuade her to eat a bit of fruit (fairly useless I think calorie wise) a mouthful of yoghurt, maybe a petit filious size yoghurt, and maybe a mini roll or something for weeks now. Dh isn't concerned st all. I mean, he's concerned in a dad way as our daughter is barely eating, but he's not in the slightest bit worried medically. She takes ages getting over things. Really hope your ds improves soon for you.

Wow cakes just envy . I would kill for only one or two wake ups!!

Speaking of which, thanks for the lovely offer pomme . I'd best try him with a bottle again and see if we get anywhere first, as we are still only at sips from a beaker stage. thanks and wine for you my lovely.

God I'm tired. Bed it is. Tonight I am trying to not let S sleep with me.... He is not going to like it.

Oh yes, biscuits, I'd talk to him to say its ok to not always want to do what mummy wants you to do, and you can tell me why, blah blah blah, and ditto say I won't be cross if you haven't always put a toy away if you were feeling a bit tired, lazy, whatever, we all feel a bit like that sometimes but its really important to tell the truth. Or just something so he knows you're not cross with what he did, just the fibbing. But i think all children fib a bit. I did very occasionally, my sister all the time, literally. We both turned out alright and are honest now.

jaggythistle Thu 22-Nov-12 22:47:21

oh anyone interested i got a book called 'my child won't eat' which is recommended a lot on mn for 1.99 for my kindle the other day. it's quite interesting about baby and toddler appetites and eating habits.

night night zzz

Thank you all smile

So DH and I talked about it last night and over analysed the examples we could think of and we came to the conclusion that it is mostly things where he had been a bit lazy or says what he thinks we want to hear (ie he must have thought I would want the toy to be away, although actually it had occurred to be that my instruction wasn't very specific so I just wondered what he'd done. But he wouldn't get that chain of thought I don't think!). Then we googled it too and apparently it seems quite normal.

We found an article that said it was perfectly normal, but you still shouldn't let them think they've got away with it iyswim. But just pass comment on it (so kind of like too said I think) and explain why you should tell the truth. We also found quite an interesting article in the independent (although possibly quite old) about how it is around age 4 that they realise your mind is separate to theirs. So a 3 year old might pour you an imaginary cup of tea. They would then expect you to imaginary drink the imaginary tea. That is them realising that you have a mind but they wouldn't realise it was independent to theirs. A 4yo would know that your mind had different ideas etc and thus comes the thought of planting an idea on someone else's mind. They did an experiment where they had 2 dolls, Sally and Annie. Sally puts a marble in a drawer, then leaves the room. Annie comes in and takes the marble out of the drawer and puts it on a shelf. When Sally comes back in they ask the children where they think Sally will look for the marble. The 4yos said in the drawer because they can see that Sally doesn't know that Annie moved it. The 3yos said on the shelf because they know where it is so expect Sally to know too iyswim.

So I think it is fine I just need to pick him up on it and not make a big deal. And a few talks at appropriate times about telling the truth is important. I think I'm overanalysing (no, really?) worrying about him growing up - after all he will learn from our example.

Now then, musical we were ages before we did SFF after ds1 (like a year blush) and it felt fine by then, but apparently, when they came to repair my second degree tear after ds2 the doctor said what a good job they'd done the first time round hmm (which was a third degree tear and episiotomy). It has been fine this time too but I think I am very lucky maybe. How old is Iz? If it is uncomfortable sort of 6 months in then it might be completely normal but might be worth just getting it checked?

Hope everyone else is ok. How did it go putting S back in his own bed Dream? How is DS Scarlet - any improvement? When do you have your next CBT?

Where has Scream gone again?

hawthers Fri 23-Nov-12 07:57:13

Thanks jaggy for the book recommendation, I'll definitely download it

biscuits do you think its a development thing as in he is learning to lie and trying it out. It is an important skill to learn sort of so maybe the best thing is to chat about when its absolutely not ok to lie and that he can just day if he wants to do x rather than y... Hmm not being much help.

musical ahem Tmi but I found when I was bfing it was all rather drier than usual something to do with the bf hormones I gather and its all got much better since I stopped.bf.

dream on the sleep thing I found if we had a lapse it was quicker than the training to get them back to the sleep routine if that is any help.

No I think that is helpful Hawthers - that is exactly what I tried to say with the stand up weeing thing. That it was ok to say he wanted to sit down, and that there wa Jo need to fib. I suspect you're right that they're just learning it and see what they can get away with. So then he will learn that it is something he could do but it generally isn't acceptable to do so.

cakes82 Fri 23-Nov-12 09:29:41

I jinxed DD's sleep last night was not as good as previous two. Dream did you manage to keep S out of your bed? hope your nite was reasonable.

Tired tired tired. Tag team babies. But bar an accidental falling asleep with s in bed (thanks b for waking me up for your turn hmm ) I put him back. He woke hourly or every 90 minutes though, was up loads all evening, then he went to sleep and i spent an hour, alternating with dh, trying to settle unhappy coughing b. Urgh.

That is very encouraging news hawthers

musicalmrs Fri 23-Nov-12 11:09:51

Thank you all for the TMI discussion smile It was a second degree tear. I thought I'd replied last night, but clearly my computer ate it!

Dream, sore and stinging describes it perfectly. No aborted attempts, but lots painful (starting painful especially!). I read somewhere it might take time to feel normal again and be painless, and it's getting better (I think - it's not as if we have SFF that often..), but it's still an issue. Biscuits, I do wonder if trying to have SFF earlier has made the problem worse, iyswim? blush. As in, if I left it for longer to heal, it might be better, rather than agitating it! I'm not sure. Maybe the doctor will know smile

Hawthers, I don't think the dryness helps either sad But even with assistance on that front, it's still not right..!

I'll book an appointment sometime next week. I need to go anyway to get more pills..

Urgh, tag team babies sounds tough Dream. We had a rubbish night here too - I gave up and chucked her in bed with me in the end (DH was away), which was probably for the best as I now feel semi human!

Madly expressing milk today as my parents are looking after Iz tomorrow night while DH and I go to my brother's production - which is a black tie event! DH is chuffed he can fit into one of his old suits, after losing lots of weight. Whereas I'm a tad worried as to whether I can squeeze into a dress and whether I'll be able to sit down once I have.

Does crawling help with sleep? It is supposed to...<wishes M would learn to crawl. Or failing that, just learn to sleep through!>

Not the best night here either - M up every 2 hours again. Sigh. I don't know what to do, and I'm scared that anything I try will actually make her worse. I'm starting to get really horrible and I just wish she would learn to do something. She can't do anything that people ask me about - she can't crawl, she can't sleep through, she won't let me spoon feed her savoury food, she isn't pulling herself to standing or cruising...I feel like a failure. She's been asleep for 2 hours now and I wish I'd just gone to bed when she did, but instead I made a cup of tea, ate 3 mini cream cakes and MNed for 2 hours.

Too! The whole bay comparison, people asking thing is such a headfuck. Ignore anything anyone says to you about your baby. She will crawl, stand up etc and it is a bit annoying really quite frankly. Much better when they sit still smile

So she feeds herself then if you dont spoon fed her? Well that's a skill she's learnt!

hawthers Fri 23-Nov-12 12:12:50

And she can clap and f can't at 11 months. It will come in time and until then lie

musicalmrs Fri 23-Nov-12 12:29:02

Too, if Iz is any indication.. then crawling definitely doesn't help with sleep! The only thing I've heard from some people is that the first tooth sometimes does. Fellow brookers, any responses!?

Oh, Too, meant to say - how sweet with regard to the clapping!

Also, definitely ignore all the baby comparison bits. Iz can crawl (still requires a bit of thought before she does it each time!), but can't reliably sit on her own - she does for a bit, then thinks she'd prefer to stand and so straightens out, making her fly backwards. All a bit risky.

Also.. when Iz slept last night... I should have gone to bed, but instead devoured huge amounts of ice cream (feeling sorry for myself as DH wasn't around), tried to fix some stupid IT issue a client had that just annoyed me, and ended up googing stuff for ages. Ridiculously big to do list to tackle today. Iz is sleeping now - and of course I'm MN-ing rather than tackling anything from it...

BartletForTeamGB Fri 23-Nov-12 12:29:38

I had an episiotomy and, although it wasn't painful as much, I definitely noticed my scar for at least 6 months, if not longer. Hope the doctor can help.

Too, it is all a phase and it will all get better, I promise. I hope you can enjoy your cream cakes with a clear conscience. You deserve them!

SFF has happened twice so far and no pain or uncomfortableness. I tore but wasn't told to what degree.

N goes to sleep fine in the evening, she has started waking around midnight and then regularly during the night. DH is sleeping in the spare room and I end up cosleeping I'm too lazy to keep getting up in the night, it's easier to just roll over and flop the boob out She has 2 teeth.

No attempts to crawl yet, if I lie her on her front then she lifts her head up for a bit before screeching. She has stopped travelling around on her back, she just rolls over or spins on the spot. Only rolls one way, back to front via her left side. Can sit for quite a while but I have cushions all around as she does still fall back at some point. Likes standing when held but no attempt to pull herself to standing.

I'm still ebf as N simply isn't ready for food. We tried her with some mash last night and she just choked on it.

Too M is the same age as E and they can do (and not do) all the same things, except E can't clap. And I'm perfect wink so you must be doing fine grin

Agree though - it is so annoying all the things people ask you about. The sensible bit of your brain knows that they all get there eventually but it is only since I've had ds1 actually GET there (despite being late sitting / walking etc) and be ifentical to his early walking early talking friends that I can confidently just sit back and watch ds2 do things in his own time.

I actually think it's a bit incredible how he STILL hasn't figured out crawling when he is so close (as in he is in the perfect crawling position, knees under him, one hand off the floor and all he needs to do is put that hand down forward, so he puts it down further back and flaps his legs out backwards and so still manages to go backwards! hmm But he'll get there. Crawling is irrelevant anyway as they all learn to walk.

You're doing a grand job too. I say so and I'm ALWAYS right. Fact.


What biscuits says too. Your M does more than my boys and I couldn't be more PSB/PTB about them, they're such gorgeous smiley interactive little creatures . Even I can relax (when I'm being sane) and know they'll get there eventually as DD is. She fooled me by walking early but then progressing very slowly. I hate worrying about them, I know I'll look back and wonder why I was being ridiculous. If i feel ok in myself, have had some sleep etc. I can happily just admire and enjoy them being my little babies, but very tired makes me a lot bit mental. M sounds perfect to me smile

dream - some sleep has utterly transformed my life. Sleep deprivation totally changes everything IMHO.

hawthers Fri 23-Nov-12 19:55:00

dream I'm afraid I agree with pomme and some sleep has made a world of difference to my parenting abilities and my relationship with DH. I also think that giving up bf was contributory to making f sleep better. BUT you have to be happy with the idea of giving up bf and it having no impact on sleeping I think. Otherwise you might regret the one way decision if it doesn't work.

Thank you, people. I need a bit of a kick to get my head on straight sometimes. I just had FIL last night saying that M needed grandpa to walk her around and help her get going hmm, DM this morning asking if M could wave yet and telling me that my stepdad was asking when she was going to grow some hair and DSis saying that she saw a baby M's age today who could crawl already and had two teeth. Not that I care about teeth - our families are all late with teeth; or hair, but it would be nice to be able to say 'yes, M is crawling, walking, hopping on one leg and reciting Shakespeare, thank you very much'! grin at Hawthers and the advice to lie! I think you're right, Pomme and Dream, and a bit of sleep would help me feel less despairing. wine is helping too, as advised by Biscuits last week. In fact, the wine is finished (why did I waste it on yesterday's stew when I could have drunk more today?) so I might have a rummage through the drinks cabinet and see what else is lurking in there. quashes urge to get smashed on whisky or vodka

Loopyhasanotherbean Fri 23-Nov-12 20:07:32

i don't in any way intend to rub this in, just offering another side to things. I EBF my DS1 and he slept through from 7 weeks exactly and still does now and he is 2. DS2 is also EBF, was 11 weeks old on Weds, and is also now sleeping through, with last night being his best night so far - he went into his crib at 10.06pm and didn't wake until 7.15am. So it isn't the case that you have to give up BF to get them to sleep well. Not that i'm saying that everyone should BF, as aware it's not for everyone, but just saying that BF doesn't mean you should have a non-sleeping baby, nor that FF will solve it either...IYSWIM?

I get ya loopy smile

Ds1 slept through from about 13 weeks and he was ebf until 6 months and then bf morning and night until 9 mths. So he went to bed on a bf until 9 mths.

Ds2 sometimes sleeps through and sometimes doesn't and he's had the same bf service as ds1 (for now....)

Yep, my DD was ebf, first slept 7-7 (or 6,30) at 10weeks 5 days, and slept through mostly from then.til 13 months and our Sleep Hell period but i.genuinely think that was uneasiness from her about my pregnancy- she knew something was happening /changing but not what. Boys officially only sip from beakers and wave them round and bash things with them, so realistically i can't see how I'd give them formula smile

And too, comments like that are currently making me come out with nasty, sniping remarks which only make me look like a cow, just smile beautifically and swear at them in your head. I do wish my boys would crawl one day rather than go straight to walking, but they are nowhere near getting on hands and knees so I'll not hold my breath, and i keep telling myself its ridiculous to want them to crawl just to say yes when everyone asks rather than no, still no clapping/rolling round/crawling/ sleeping through/ doing anything else you'd care to ask me about <seethes>

Hmmm yes, i can see how that would make it tricky! Will neither of the boys take a bottle?

Thanks Loopy. I don't want to give up bf just yet, but I also don't want to believe that things will never get better unless I do! I've been re-reading the No-Cry Sleep Solution again - those of you who bf to sleep, do you put the baby down 'awake but sleepy', or are they dead to the world before you move them?

We have a new plan for tonight - next time M wakes up DH is going to try to put her back down. Not sure how successful this will be, but we'll see! She's already been up once, only half an hour after going down. hmm DH is primed to try really hard and not give up at the first hurdle.

Varies on the putting ds2 down thing Too. If he is dropping off to sleep I let him go (to sleep, not literally let him fall off my lap hmm) so then he'd be asleep before he goes down, but then other days he doesn't fall asleep so I guess it's more that I accidentally feed him to sleep sometimes rather than it being my stated strategy smile

Mine never feed to sleep in the evening too, I put them down wide awake, but dead to the world fed to sleep in the night.

We went out for the day today as dh was off work. So the boys day went- up, milk feed, wriggle on my bed while I got dressed, highchairs, 30 min sitting on floor giggling at each other playing, car, pushchair for a walk, highchairs, car, pushchair round huge garden centre looking at twinkly lights, car home, 15 min on floor, highchairs for tea, sat in front of tv, bath, bed. This is typical of a day out. 45 min to wriggle/play shock So, why aren't they moving do you think?! <bloody awful mother emoticon>

B wasn't for entertaining anything today really but no, don't think either will. S definitely won't take a bottle.

Oh, unless they won't feed to sleep, so then down awake with cd back on. That's usually B. S complains too loudly so gets picked up again and re-soothed.

jaggythistle Fri 23-Nov-12 22:47:14

mostly DS2 bfs to sleep too. if not he's probably overtired and needs a wee rock or shoogle.

he's fallen asleep on my knee by himself before and once or twice in his high chair, but because he's sharing with DS1 we've not really tried putting him down awake.

DS1 stopped falling asleep while bf temporarily at about 8 mo, i think we had to change things then with story after bf then bed with mobile playing tune. he started feeding to sleep again a few months later though!

have had a couple of glasses of wine and can hardly keep my eyes open. I'd really like to have a nice evening and chill with DH but I'm away to bed. i think he was a bit bored watching me dozing on the couch anyway. rubbish.

Sorry for the intermittant posting ladies, I've been spending every moment of DD sleep time xmas shopping for the last couple of days. Plus I had a dental emergency this week culminating in a painful morning today <sigh> Still at this point my teeth have been sorted (for now) and my xmas shopping is almost complete. Just DD & DH left, which should be much easier than the rest of my family because I don't have tight budgets for their gifts.

I've skim-read the last few days and I picked up a few things. Firstly, Dream I LOVE the "ferret on acid" comment, that made me laugh out loud! grin

Musical yay for Iz crawling! Very exciting! My DM swears little A also crawled forward for the first time today, just a couple of knee shuffles. Unfortunately I was out at my scary dentist appointment and DD wasn't willing to even attempt crawling in the afternoon when I got back. So I have yet to see it! However she I did see her first proper wave! She waved at her GD as he headed out this evening! It was so cute!

Hats off to all those working and getting up at night with non-sleeping babies, that includes DHs (especially with exams!). DD has been a bit of a nightmare with sleeping for weeks now. I've been getting her up for the day before 8 every morning, and she's been surprisingly willing to accept water-only bottles between 11pm and 6am, but neither change has made her sleep for longer stretches of time at night. She's now napping for about an hour when I put her down at 7, and then up from 8ish through to midnight-ish! Sob sob. She's like a duracell bunny!

To be fair though, she is teething, her second tooth just broke the surface. Plus she's been really getting into her food this week! Maybe it'll all come together next week? Maybe the teething will take a break, and the early mornings/no night feeding will eventually convince her to sleep more than 2 hours in a row?! I desperately hope so because I'm going slightly loopy!

Hawthers I was v excited with what you wrote about your job! I also have a taxing job (code: cta ias) and I also work for the biggest firm! I'm now wondering if we work in the same building?!?! On the riverfront?

I'm very sorry, because I know this is a stupidly long post, but I just wanted to mention one last thing. We had the sign up meeting at DD's new nursery today, and even though the staff were lovely and the kids were lovely and the settling in plan was lovely, as I left the nursery I just burst into tears! I cried all the way home. I just can't imagine leaving DD in a house full of people she doesn't know, people who are responsible for SO MANY kids all at once. I'm all confused now, it's a great nursery but I feel like maybe I'm being selfish sending her to nursery early just so I can get the days that are convenient for me work-wise. Maybe I should be prioritising DD's needs over mine, I shouldn't let her start nursery until she's 1 and I can go back to work gradually - my firm is generally really flexible with returning Mums. I just can't imagine leaving her there! <somebody please slap me with a wet fish for being so irritatingly PFB>

Apologies for the mammoth post!

hawthers Sat 24-Nov-12 07:10:35

scream have sent you a pm!

Re nursery I cried dropping DS1 off every time for quite a while but they do settle in so much more quickly than we get used to leaving them iyswim. It sounds like you know she will be fine and I don't think you are being selfish and prioritising your needs over hers its just tricky heading back to work. DS1b loved the social side of nursery. But you have to do what you are comfortablep with

Oooo I've responded to Hawthers pm and Biscuits' FB msg! Very exciting ladies! [saddo who likes talking about work emoticon]

Thanks for the nursery support Hawthers, I really appreciate it. I didn't imagine it would be this hard! Also, I know it's AAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGEEEEEEESSSSSSSS ago now, but I've been meaning to thank Dream for her kind comments about guilt at the end of bfing. She mentioned feeling guilty when her DD got a cold after she stopped bfing at 15 months, when she was already pg with the gorgeous BBBBs, and it really helped me to realise even the most super of super mums feels guilty whenever bfing ends!!

Oh yes I meant to say about nursery - it is way harder than you'd think. I cried every time I dropped ds1 off for several weeks sad. You have to be really quick and just hand them over to the nursery staff. You'll still cry but they just get more upset if you draw it out or cuddle then more etc iyswim because you still have to part with them eventually, even though your instinct is that you would love to make them happy and smiley and hand then over that way. The nursery staff are really good at that sort of thing and should know to take them off you and let you make a quick exit. I used to have to dive around the corner from the door so ds1 didn't see me crying blush. I know it sounds mean but a quick handover is honestly easier for the dc. And the nursery staff will look after them.

And anyway, some kids just love nursery from day 1 - maybe A will be like that xx

And yyy to guilt giving up bf. I am feeling guilty now for wanting to stop sad. I feel like the reasons are mine (and kind of for ds1 - I hate having to send him away so as to not distract ds2) but I wish ds2 would have just conveniently started refusing the boob iyswim sad

scream - I honestly think the slow and steady easing in approach is the best, so fwiw I think you're doing the right thing. Both mine have started at 7 months 1 day a week as I needed to start doing bits of work quite early on and it's been a good way for everyone to get used to it both times.

Maybe on the bf/sleep thing it's the night feeding? I think maybe two nights in A realised she was only getting the bottle at night not boob (and was obv feeding for comfort not hunger in the night then I guess) so gave up and started sleeping??? <touching wood manically that it doesnt all go tits up now>

So (too if you want to stay bf but get some sleep I think your dh plan might be a good one. Good luck.

Dh is at the Nelgand rugby today on a coorporate do with my dad and brother. Lucky git! I braved an xmas fair with pottery painting at a local NT house place with a friend. manic does not even describe it. Lunch in a ridiculously busy cafe with two toddlers and a baby was [shocked]!

Scream, our nursery forms arrived in the post this morning - eek! M's first settling-in session is 11 Dec. I have had a long form to fill out with questions about her personality, likes and dislikes, toilet habits, food, milk/bottles, naps etc. I'm scared! But reassured that they take the whole thing very seriously and want lots of information about her. Is it wrong that next to 'what are my favourite toys?' I wrote 'the phone, the remote control, the dog, mummy's hair...' It's true! I forgot to put 'packets of baby wipes' - she loves the noise they make and if I forget to shut them, then she loves pulling all the wipes out and making a giant mess.

They also sent a form for ChildSmile, a toothbrushing programme. At what point am I supposed to register her with a dentist? It says in the form that I'm supposed to, but she hasn't got any teeth yet. I'd feel stupid. When do I make a first dentist appt for her? When she has all her teeth, or just some?

So, the DH-settling-M plan lasted precisely 15 minutes. She was calm but awake when he held her, but howled as soon as he laid her down. New plan required...

PetWoman Sat 24-Nov-12 15:26:34

Mmmm. Baileys.

JenFrankincenseAndMyrrh Sat 24-Nov-12 15:34:40

Too N is registered with my dentist, they just did it automatically at my last check up as I had her with me. Why not phone your dentist and ask? I assume you would want her at yours to make life easier.

N rolled from front to back for the first time today. I was giving her belly time and went into the kitchen, when I came back in she was on her back so I missed it sad

grin at Pet

wine for Too. The forms are terrifyingly detailed aren't they?!?! I'll be No Brooking extra hard for M (and you!) on the 11th! I'm sure she'll love it! I have no idea about the dentist I'm afraid. Little A's first tooth broke through over a week ago now, and it still isn't even half as tall as I expect it'll end up. So I have no idea when there will be enough of it above the gumline to start brushing?! Hoping the more experienced No Brookers will be along to answer your q shortly!

<heads off to find a drink to keep Pet company grin>

If I recall correctly DS1 was registered at my dentist but didn't have his own appointment until he was 2. Before that they said just bring him along to my appointments and they'd see if he'd let them look in but really no pressure if he didn't want to open up. It is good for them to see you doing the whole appointment shizzle though.

I can't remember if we registered ds2 when we went to the dentist or not. i should think we did? We have been once since he was born but perhaps I'll check next time we go. They might even want to have a look - he's got so many teeth grin

Best thing I think would be to ask your dentist what they'd recommend? It might be different for Scottish teeth grin

Well, my dentist is my uncle, but since we moved (2 years ago) I think we fell off their list and neither of us have had occasion to need a dentist appt since. Will phone up and ask. Uncle used to give me free dental care but charge DH at NHS rates - wonder if that arrangement will have changed by now?


Ds1 came in at 3:23 to ask if it was time to get up hmm Put him back to bed but am now STILL AWAKE! angrysad


hawthers Sun 25-Nov-12 07:11:12

biscuits Get him a groclock. We got one for DS1 a couple of weeks ago and its worked really well. He stayed in bed until after 7 all week.

Pah. S will not sleep longer,than 2.5 hours. I'm knackered. Went to bed at 9 to try and get some sleep but the little tike was up by 9:30 and has tormented me since.

I second your Grrrrr biscuits

After over a week of this I'm feeling weepy. I'm just desperate for some sleep but its not looking likely.

I'm so grumpy I can't even be bothered to pretend to write a nice post

<stomps out>

<parcels up some brew, biscuit and thanks for *Dream^>

<opens parcel and adds some wine for later>

<sends DS2 off crawling backwards to deliver it>

bold fail


I feel slightly more human now I'm up and dressed.

<begrudging emoticon>

DD has a groclock but we're currently too inconsistent with it but I hear wonderful things about it biscuits

So ds2 goes backwards? Well done E!

I am mning from my bed in the new house. dp has taken both kids downstairs. I still feel slightly anxious but the massive stress levels are reducing daily. No internet till 3rd Dec so on phone and will be sporadic. Dd has gone from being super quiet baby to resembling some form of dinosaur bird and now squawks and babbles constantly. Oh and learnt to roll b to f a couple of weeks ago.
Boo to all badly sleeping babies. Back soon x

PetWoman Sun 25-Nov-12 10:16:19

Right. Sorry about yesterday's random alcohol-inspired comment. I'm going to scroll back and try to catch up now.

I'm aware there are still sleep-deprived Brookers and those with poorly LOs (I'm in both groups, I fear, though DS is only under the weather and does manage a chunk of sleep in between the wake-ups, so I know I'm better off than some). Sending big mugs of brew your way, anyway.

Musical I know you mentioned fanjo pain a while ago. One girl in my NCT group had a similar problem and apparently some of her stitches were inflamed. The doctor gave her a steroid cream, I think, which solved the problem. So it's probably worth getting checked out just in case.

Scarlet when is DS's appointment? Really hope you get some answers about his health, or your concerns allayed. I loved the picture of DD in her gorgeous dress - thanks for sharing it.

Too I've registered DS with a dentist just so I know he's got one when he needs one! He doesn't have any teeth yet. smile

Scream FWIW I think your nursery plans sound really wise. DD will be familiar with the place and people, and happy to spend more time there when the time comes. Has she started to be clingy yet? If not, even better - hopefully she'll be happy there from the start. Oh, and I think you can start brushing A's little tooth now, just to get her used to it. Wonder how she'll respond?!

Speaking of clingy, DS (nearly 8 months) definitely is - mainly just to me. Which is flattering, but a little awkward when distant aunts want to cuddle him. sad

Ooh, how exciting about those of you with taxing jobs! Do you have any rl contact, then? Got to say I didn't understand tour code at all - but then, I'm a teacher, so wouldn't expect to, right?

Dream when does DH get his exam result? Sounded bloomin' hard, especially when tired. Really hope you all have a better night tonight.

PetWoman Sun 25-Nov-12 10:18:17

your code. blush

Gotta run - off to church in the rain.

musicalmrs Sun 25-Nov-12 12:23:40

Pet, thanks for the fanjo advice! I think someone else (Too possibly?) said something similar about one of their friends. I'll be booking an appointment tomorrow!

Scream, I think your nursery plans sound wise. If I were going back soon - and could use nurseries (won't work out for us sadly, shame as we found one we loved!), I'd do the same. DH would rather I look after her though, which is a fair point... and it might give me a chance to work on my composition career, so we'll see how it works out. I have a couple more months to decide...

At my parents' for my brother's birthday. We went out to his school production last night, and left Iz for only the second time - the first time she was asleep the whole time! Last night she played on her own for an hour after we left (she didn't want to play with anyone else, just decided crawling around the living room was fun - and trying to grab all the cables!). She was then very sad when she got tired and realised DH and I weren't there to comfort her before bed... but then went down at about 9pm and slept until we got home! Hurrah!

Linking to the Facebook group, but someone was talking about the Kenwood Prospero? I might buy one with our Clubcard vouchers. Can't justify a Kenwood Chef (or Magimix or Kichenaid or anything that costs quite that much!), but I do do a lot of baking, and I was paid by one of my private students yesterday meaning I have enough to cover the bit the vouchers won't stretch too! Hmm... tempting!

Yay for Iz sleeping, Musical! Love her crawling around grabbing cables, too - M rolls around and grabs cables.

Pet, the clingy thing is interesting. M isn't clingy atm but I do wonder if that will change when she gets used to being without me 4 days a week. sad

Ninja, was that your first night in the new house? Yay for new houses and noisy babies and rolling!

Joining the sleep-deprived group...M slept in 90 minute intervals for most of the night, grr! I gave her a dummy because she woke up all chirpy at 1am and wanted to play hmm. That actually worked - she lay in her cot sucking and playing with the dummy and actually fell asleep on her own, but only for 2 hours 40 mins (longest sleep interval!). DH took her out shopping this morning so I could sleep.

PetWoman Sun 25-Nov-12 16:19:31

Too re the babies' achievements / milestones - when I talk to people about their babies I usually ask what new things they're doing, rather than 'are they crawling' etc, because when you think about it, your baby is constantly developing and learning - not just the milestones, but personality stuff. For example, a couple of days ago DS was sitting with DH and dropped a toy. DH caught it and handed it straight back. DS started to giggle and did it again. After a few goes he was properly belly laughing. DH and I weren't quite sure what was so funny, but DS had obviously invented a game and was enjoying it. So, if it helps, maybe you could think of an anecdote you can bore people with relate about M when people ask, rather than worrying about what she isn't doing.

Feeling a bit miffed at breastfeeding today (as people on fb may have seen!). I feel sooo differently now...approx 6 weeks before I go back to work 2.5 days in the office and what is likely to be constant email/phone communication out of the office (weekdays and weekends).

I have wasted my maternity leave through being so sleep deprived and all I had to do was get her on a bottle! Now it's over, dd1 has square eyes from so much telly and we haven't had anywhere near the fun i thought we'd have.



I've only taken dd1 to the dentist once and only then to check out what to do with her weird extra tooth. I think when she had two teeth I started giving one of those chewable toothbrush things in the bath with a smear of toothpaste on. Need to get dd2 one given that she's got 4 teeth...Whoops. Poor little second born.

cakes82 Sun 25-Nov-12 16:38:44

I asked at dentist when DD needed registering they said once she had a couple of teeth but more so she could get used to going rather than anything else.

Stacks Sun 25-Nov-12 17:09:41

Hi everyone. I've been lurking on the thread for a couple of days, but thought I'd post to make it easier grin

I'm 38w today, and feeling a little worried at all the sleep deprivation posts... My little boy will be a perfect angel right? Very much looking forward to him coming though, and hoping he comes sooner rather than later. Would like the wee'un have a bit of time between his bday and Christmas, though also would like to have had recovery time post birth to enjoy my Christmas Day too.

Quite glad he's due over Christmas so I'll have DH home for a few weeks. It's a perk you forget about when you realise you're going to have a Christmas baby.

Hope people start sleeping better soon, and that nursery and school settling in and choosing go well. Also that the poorly ones get better soon.

<goes back to lurking>

Hey Stacks great to see you over here. Wow 38 weeks already shock how exciting! I also have a Christmas born little boy, he was due Boxing Day. After TTC for 18 months I didn't feel I could complain about the timing but I really did stress about it. As it happened he arrived bang splat in the middle between Christmas and New Year so wasn't as bad as it could've been. You're right about having DH around more. Mine had DS's first 3 weeks off as he was on holiday when he arrived and then it went straight into paternity leave at the start of Jan. It was great!

Yay for being in the house at last Ninja wine

No time to name check everyone, busy busy busy. No doubt I'll be back on later though and will catch up with the rest of you then.

I hardly dare say it in case I jinx it, but DS has been back to his usual self since Friday. I'm still going to take him for the coeliac test though just to put my mind at rest. Luckily he doesn't mind needles.

JenFrankincenseAndMyrrh Sun 25-Nov-12 19:40:56

<sneaks up on Stacks, shouts boo and shakes pepper all over>

Don't worry about the sleep deprivation, it is only temporary they should move out eventually

PetWoman Sun 25-Nov-12 20:03:41

Too good luck with tonight. Since DS rejected the dummy I've fed him to sleep for all naps (except in the car or buggy) and at night. Sometimes he goes from about 8pm to 5am with only one wake / feed. Usually he wakes 3 or 4 times though. confused

Dream I meant to add that I loved your description of the twins sitting and giggling at each other. So cute. DS doesn't get much tummy time (especially now he can sit) because of the marauding hound, but I'm sure he'll crawl in his own good time, just like all the brooking babies will. ATM he just sits! smile

Rubber how old is N? She sounds gorgeous!

Think I've just about caught up with the fred now...

PetWoman Sun 25-Nov-12 20:11:32

Hello Stacks ! Hope you find these last few weeks / days restful and not too uncomfortable. Looking forward to you joining us with a LO very soon...

Scarlet glad DS is better. smile

Love the festive name Jen.

PetWoman Sun 25-Nov-12 20:14:39

So Pomme, does A take the bottle now? Well, your bfing is over, so I hope you can make the most of your last 6 weeks of mat leave. Don't look back - enjoy the time (and sleep) now!

<waves at Stacks>

Looking forward to you joining us properly - good luck with it all my lovely xx

So glad DS is on the mend Scarlet - hope the blood test shows all is well and it was just One Of Those Things

<shuffles off to the sofa to drink wine>

JenFrankincenseAndMyrrh Sun 25-Nov-12 20:30:57

N is 25 weeks now Pet

So glad DS is better, Scarlet.

Have been reading the Discussion of the Day thread about expressing - think I'm going to have to express at work to stop my boobs exploding, and to have EBM to give to the nursery for M. Anyone got a recommendation for a decent pump? I'd quite like an electric one [lazy] - my Tommee Tippee one is a bit shit and makes my hands ache, but it depends on price, really. I'm probably going to be expressing for a maximum of 2 months, just until M can have cow's milk during the day, but I suppose it would be an investment for future babies too.

musicalmrs Sun 25-Nov-12 22:15:58

Future babies, Too? How many are you thinking of having? smile I have a Medela single mini, which I really like. I actually bought it from Ebay and super-sterilised it. Didn't cost much at all. When I had my KIT day I had to express - I did so once properly during the day, once into tissues (just a bit, to try and ease the super-saturatednes!)... got home and was in pretty immense pain, and was massaging blocked ducts for ages. One of the thoughts about me not going back to work straight away was because it'll be nigh on impossible to find time to express during at least one day of the week..

Stacks, don't worry, it'll be fine! Odd as it sounds, you get used to the sleeplessness. Then again, I had pregnancy insomnia for most of my pregnancy, so sleepless nights felt pretty normal. It's just now that Iz has slept through and has now stopped that I'm feeling worse :P

Pomme, glad things are feeling better for you now - sorry you feel a bit unhappy over it all.

So glad DS is better Scarlet!

I think I'm going to have to do a teeth dance. Like rain, but for teeth. Because this lack of teeth is getting a bit ridiculous now. Teething for almost four months. She may be doing the same as Dream's DD of course... I'm sure it's teething waking her up at night though, as I often go in to her shouting, but thrashing from side to side, trying to get back to sleep but failing... sad I think it wakes her up and stops her from self settling? It doesn't do it every time, as sshe was good as gold at my parents' last night (when finally asleep), but every time they checked on her she'd moved slightly, or grabbed the comforter toy we're using (YAY, must be working!).

On the napping front, it appears I still have a little girl who doesn't like napping in her cot - but will nap on the sofa if I put her down beside me. Most bizarre. Even if I try to get her to sleep in her cot, she then won't necessarily stay asleep there. Wonder if that links to the night sleeping at all.. hmm.

Urgh. S up lots, then was feeding him at 5:30 and he vomited profusely in my bed. Changed him, me, the bed and that was it for sleep. He'll be so cranky imminently.

I confess I'd like one more baby. Dh is still saying he'd like a vasectomy but then twice recently he's said 'if we have another in a few years' . So maybe?!

too I've got a medela electric pump too. Also second hand. But mine is hospital grade so i paid £125 second hand, but tis £250 new!

Mine's a double pump top though.

Too, not top. Doh. I'm expressing each evening for milk for b's porridge, I get 5 oz in 10 min when my boobs feel pretty empty to me, it is great.

I've got an Avent electric single pump which was ok ish but I never really had much success with it. But then I don't know whether I just wasn't cut out for pumping or if it was because the pump wasn't very good iyswim?

I am just about to get rid of my pump - it's only been used a handful of times - you'd be welcome to it if you wanted to try it? (Apologies if that's a rank sort of thing to offer away? I'm not sure confused)

I had the little medala one (until I dropped it...). I liked it. It works on batteries too and being little i found with dd2 I could express on the go which would be useful for when you have your second too?

I bet jaggy and hawthers know a thing about pumps too as hey have both done quite a lot haven't they?

JenFrankincenseAndMyrrh Mon 26-Nov-12 09:58:51

Should I think about expressing? I'm unemployed so don't have a job to go back to although my MA runs out in a couple of weeks so will then only have my CB as income. If I go back on the dole then I would need to take any job offered so may need to find childcare quickly. The only time I have expressed is ages ago when my boobs were rock solid and N was too small to be able to feed from them so I just expressed off a little to soften them up for her.

Oooh, Biscuits, that would be great! How much do you want for it? Have had a look on Amazon and the reviews seem pretty positive, and I just don't have the cash to spend £100 on a Medela right now.

Musical, at least one more, and then we'll see! But neither of us want M to be an only child, and DH keeps saying he wants about 7...hmm So the current plan is to have another and see how stressful the pregnancy is. I keep worrying about M's Down's syndrome score (which was 1:10 and I had an amnio at 16 weeks and luckily everything was fine) and whether that's just a quirk of my babies and I'd have to go through the whole worry about whether the next one had Down's and whether to have the amnio again and what if this time I miscarried...Maybe it was just M, but the nuchal test hadn't come to my trust when I was pg with DD1, so I don't know if she would have had a similar result or not. Plus there was the whole SPD thing, although it wasn't as bad as Scream's.

No money required too - it's yours smile. Just pm me your address smile

Sending big hugs to Dream and anyone else up all night with a LO. Little A and I did battle all last night, and as with most battles there were no real winners.

Every night I try to get her to sleep in her cot, and every night I give up (due to exhaustion) around 2 or 3ish, at which point she comes into my bed to sleep on me. This means I have to sleep on my back which completely aggravates my sciatica. Finally yesterday evening I was just in sooooo much pain from the sciatica, even after taking nurofen, that I had to face the fact I CANNOT physically let her sleep on me anymore. Cue the epic battle last night, where she screamed from 3 til 4, then from 5 to 5.30 and again from 6 to 6.30 when I finally brought her into my bed to sleep next to me rather than on me. I'm a terrible mother for letting her sleep next to me though, because I have a memory foam mattress and I know babies shouldn't sleep on those. Argh it's such a nightmare! Dreading tonight already... Last night was basically the "camping out" version of cry-it-out. It was awful. She's never cried so hard for so long in her whole life sad She didn't go to sleep until midnight anyway, despite an 8pm bedtime, and she was up twice between midnight and The Screaming at 3. Sob sob.

Apologies for the selfish whinge. Back onto the topic of the day - next DC! How ridiculous is it that I STILL really want another baby asap?!?! Too I share all your concerns! I think the next time round I'll be even more worried about scan results etc, because I have too much so much more info now. Plus I'm terrified of the SPD & toddler combo. Still whenever I see a tiny baby less than a month old I get super broody!

Anyways, it's a pipe dream for me. It'll take months for DH and I to get back on track, and then it still wouldn't be sensible to jump immediately into another stressful pg followed by sleepless newborn stage. So I think I'll end up with at least a 2.5 year age gap, if not more. Unless I just jump in again anyway and we'd just have to figure it out as we go along but of course I wouldn't do that because I'm not a crazy woman oh no I'm perfectly sane me grin

As for the expressing talk, I loved my medela swing - single electric pump. I used it everyday for months and it was fantastic.

Good luck to all those going back to work in the next few weeks! Esp Pomme off to Italy! When do you leave exactly? How long will it take you to get internet access at the other end?!?!

How are all the previously poorly mini No Brookers? I don't think much has been mentioned recently so I hope everyone is better?

scream - your post brings back some bad memories! God, poor you, horibble night. Have you tried a different cot? Do you have a travel one? A was much better in her travel cot (maybe could see out) which we discovered by 'accident' on holiday. She's still in one now. She'll be sleeping in one in Italy too! She likes a nightlight too.

We're off to Italy for good on the 28th but on Thursday we're going for 4 days to try and sort things out. i am excited and nervous! We dont have enough suitcases!

Oh and I was so so so sure 2 was my lot but I saw dd1's nativity at school today (the two preschool class plus reception) and it was very hard not to cry and now I want a whole football team.

What is it about little ones singing away in a manger?! God thats a tearjerker.

Thank you, thank you, thank you Biscuits! I have PMed you. You are a star. I can do some expressing practice now and try freezing some and so on. Thank you so much!

grin at Pomme wanting a football team! Yy to Away In A Manger being a tearjerker. Gosh, Pomme, it's all getting close now - have a lovely time this weekend and I hope everything looks much more sorted by this time next week.

Scream, your comment about battles having no real winners made me smile because it sounded so philosophical, but then I read on and it sounds like the night from hell, poor you. Btw, I have a memory foam mattress too and I let M into my bed at 6ish this morning and she basically slept on her side facing me, with my arm under her head and my nipple in her mouth which is Very Bad according to the No Cry Sleep Solution. I started off on my side facing her and then rolled slightly onto my back which was comfier for me, although you might be better staying on your side. I think now they're older than 6 months their risk of SIDS is much reduced anyway, but having my arm underneath her meant that M couldn't roll face-first into the mattress without me noticing. Not that that helps with getting little A to sleep in the cot, which is the ultimate aim. The No Cry Sleep Solution suggests letting them play in their cots during the day, so they associate it with calm fun.

Jen, not sure about expressing - I suppose if you were offered a job quickly then you would have to sort out so many things in a very short space of time, so it might make sense to have tried expressing in advance? Do you need to go on the dole/get a job immediately, or can you stay off it for a bit longer?

grin at Pomme wanting a football team! Good luck for this weekend! Are you taking the girls or will they be staying with family?

Thanks for the travel cot suggestion. Unfortunately now that little A can cruise around her proper cot she gets very frustrated at the stretchy material sides of the travel cot, which mean she can't pull herself up. So she'll sleep in the travel cot fine if you transfer her when already fully under, but she won't fall asleep in the travel cot.

Too thanks for the arm suggestion! I always worry that little A's neck is at an uncomfortable angle when I start off with my arm underneath her head, but you're right it's a safe way of making sure she doesn't roll face down on the memory foam. She normally sleeps face down in her cot now, so I know she'll roll over on the bed as well.

I shouldn't complain so much about A though. In the last couple of weeks she's learnt to wave bye-bye and to give me a kiss if I ask for one! Such a sweetie! She's also still almost crawling. She can now move forwards on hands and knees, but she's only willing to move a few inches forward before she goes back to trying to stand. So I can't really call it proper crawling yet.

I wonder who will be the first No Brooker to rejoin the Rat Smackers?!?! Any predictions? Self-nominations?!?!

Well, AF still hasn't returned, so I'm out until that happens. DH wants to try again in the New Year, but I want to wait a bit longer and try to get fit first in the hopes of staving off the SPD. But no later than October. So who knows?

JenFrankincenseAndMyrrh Mon 26-Nov-12 13:52:05

I want another but DH says no due to money. Yes I'm unemployed but if we have another then childcare fees will make working pretty much a waste of time anyway, right?

If AAT wasn't so expensive then I would put myself through that but we just can't justify it at the moment with so few jobs out there. It's frustrating that so many places want AAT and don't acknowledge my IAB Diploma. Ideally I want to be self employed and do the books for local small businesses but not sure how to get started with that.

I can tell you who'll be last to rejoin scream <self nominates for that position> grin

I can wait to watch a nativity grin. But I know I'll be weeping all the way through it. The Christmas concert in Love Actually always makes me cry confused. Just the idea of children being able to do anything like that brings a tear to my eye blush.

can't wait I mean!

Girls coming as well, we're visiting nursery for A and pre school for dd1 on Friday. Fingers crossed the house is ok (vetted only by dh and my dad but rented via a friend of a friend). I meant we move officially 28th Dec earlier which dh has pointed out means major decoration down carnage on the 27th!!

scream - sounds like Autumn is learning tons and tons of new things very quickly and even one new thing tends to mess up sleep ime.

I reckon 2 will still be my lot. DH is VERY emphatic on two only. No more rat smacking for me I fear.

God scream your night sounds worse than mine and I feel rough. S still coughing and so mucousy, refusing any and all solids, vomiting a lot. B almost as bad but more stoical and less vomity! So after s started the wake ups at 9:30 pm, we finished with me trying to feed him to sleep st 5:30am, him turning his head from the boob to do a massive puked, all over me, him, the bed, then s trail to the bathroom as i legged it there with him.... Nice. So bed changing, new pajamas all round and a generally fun start to the day.

I'm being really horrible and moody and emotional atm. Hoping its the sleep deprivation as I've just started the progesterone only pill, knowing the combined one makes me a complete loon. I'm worried its the pill.... (Making me crackers now I mean) . Any.thoughts/ experience Brookers?

Scream, mine sleep on my memory foam mattress, I'm not worried now they're older <lax emoticon>

Oh, and pomme, I still think breast is best but always thought the 'formula induces sleep' saying must have had a grain of truth, but you've given her lifetime health benefits by bf!

I was on the progesterone one pre dd1. It was fine, although I was a bit worried when we started tic as I'd heard so many people have issues when they come off it. wasn't a problem though.

When I tried to go back on it post dd1 it didnt agree with me at all - spots, moody, constant bleeding. I've now been told no hormonal contraception at all for me - just condoms or copper coil.

I'm a bit in the dark about the pull - I've never been on it but I can't say I'm looking forward to a lifetime of condoms or similar now. I wonder if I should investigate it but I really don't know my arse from my elbow with all the different options etc. I don't want to be any more moody than I am already am hmm

Pill not pull

Oh too just a thought with the breast pump. I imagine you'll need an Avent bottle to screw onto the bottom of it and I'm afraid I don't have any spare to send with it. Is that ok?

musicalmrs Mon 26-Nov-12 14:57:25

Scream I also get super broody! DH knows I'd love another one, and also wants one - hurrah! However, we would like the age gap to be around two yrs, so I have at least a while to wait until starting to ttc again - maybe next summer? Obviously we know it might not happen straight away, but we'd like to enjoy DD a bit first smile

Too, we don't want Iz to be an only child either smile

We don't want to leave it too long, purely from a selfish point of view - the closer they are, the less time I'll be doing 'less' work for, and the sooner I can get back on the career path. I'm still doing bits and bobs, which is helping smile

Jen, I know what you mean about childcare fees. They hardly make working in London for me worthwhile at the moment when you take into account childcare too, which is why we're considering me not going back... but local work will be more worthwhile financially, so will do some at some point. I think sending a child to nursery is a Good Thing from a social point of view, so would like to do it a little bit - hmm..

Sorry to hear about your rubbish night last night Scream. Brooking for a better one tonight. A seems to be developing so quickly though- waving sounds SO sweet! I'm sure she'll be crawling in no time!

Dream, I've experienced fewer problems on the progesterone only pill - was on Microgynon for years (and another one briefly, though can't remember which). I'm not moody, though I do have 'down' swings- but I think that's more because of life in general (mainly concerns about work!) rather than the pill? Not sure. Not down enough to worry about, anyway smile

Had an odd night here last night. Went to bed early (for a change!), but Iz needed resettling quite a few times, and kept waking up between 10.30 and 12.30 - argh! However, she then slept for four and a half hours - she hasn't done that for AGES! grin. She then woke up again an hour later after that, but still - impressed. Hoping this may be a slow bit of improvement..? She also stayed in her own room all night rather than coming into bed with us - but that's mainly because I didn't give in and bring her in, which always settles her down!

On the TMI fanjo front (ha!).. had some odd unexplained bleeding yestersday, and a little bit today - back to stinging when I go to the loo. Worrying sad Phoned the doctors, fully booked until Sat (!), couldn't get an emergency appointment, but they offered a phone one, which I said would be pointless as someone actually needed to see me. Doctor phoned, agreed, and managed to fit me in on Wednesday, hurrah! Hopefully all fanjo issues will be sorted then confused.

Iz has been napping on and off for an hour and a half! Most odd for her... willl have to wake her up soon to ensure she sleeps tonight! Then again, she only cat napped this morning, so maybe she needs it..

Oh FUCK, I forgot to phone the doctor in their one-hour-only appt booking slot. Grr. Right, that does it, I'm pretending M is an emergency...except that DH won't get home until 4.30. Hmm.

Fuck!!! Just washed a disposable nappy. Bloody gel all over everything. I've done this before and ran machine through on a hot wash empty plus loads of shaking of clothes but no time, need my bedding in case he's sick again- its happened before. Argh. So quick shake, quick wipe of the washing machine and its back on... Please let it be ok . Blimey I'm thick.

Biscuitsandtinsel Mon 26-Nov-12 18:16:40

<twirls Christmas outfit>

Biscuitsandtinsel Mon 26-Nov-12 18:17:11

<hopes nobody recognises it from last year>

JenFrankincenseAndMyrrh Mon 26-Nov-12 18:27:57

Looking lovely Biscuits nice recycling, very green

hohohohawthers Mon 26-Nov-12 18:48:15

<slopes in with a star in head>

Had our first day with the new nanny today and she seems all good which is a relief but it was surprisingly hard work making small talk and making sure DS1 didn't kick off too much

Oh shit it dream hope the washing machine is ok

hohohohawthers Mon 26-Nov-12 18:49:22

Bugger on head not in head.

You are not thick, Dream - that's the sort of thing I would do! Was it a used nappy? My dog eats used nappies <boak> if I forget to pick them up.

grin at Hawthers' typo and Jen. <tries to think up clever and witty Christmas name>

TooImmatureMincePies Mon 26-Nov-12 19:15:20


I wanted to be TooImmatureStiltonWithCranberries, but it was too long. I couldn't think of anything else playing on the mature Stilton thing. Just Stilton on its own didn't seem Christmassy enough.

M is in bed already! <thud> She just flaked out after her bath and started howling as I dressed her, so she went straight to bed and was asleep in minutes. Not sure if that's a good or a bad thing.

Forgot to plug the baby monitor in, back in a mo.

TooImmatureMincePies Mon 26-Nov-12 19:31:51

Biscuits, don't worry about the bottles - I think I have some Avent ones kicking around, and if not, I can easily get some.

Dream, I got the mini-Pill after M was born but totally failed to take it within the 3 hour window every day. I gave up in the end - I think the best I managed was about 4 days of taking it and then I would forget. So I can't tell you if it gave me mood swings or not. I'm relying on the contraceptive effects of a) bf and b) chronic tiredness, plus coitus interruptus when required.

Oh, and the puking morning sounds v grim. Come on universe, cut Dream and family some slack and take your sick bugs, colds and general illnesses away for a bit!

Musical, so sorry to hear that you've had some strange bleeding. Hope the doc can set your mind at rest! And grr to bloody doctors and appts.

Biscuitsandtinsel Mon 26-Nov-12 20:12:22

Too and anyone else interested in expressing - look on active threads - there is a thread where they are looking for MNers to test a new Avent pump....

Biscuitsandtinsel Mon 26-Nov-12 20:39:57

Too - I'm just sorting out the breast pump and stuff. I can't find the instructions or box or anything but basically it all fits in a tupperware sandwich box type thing. Now, I'm thinking I might just wrap it in bubble wrap and brown paper - do you think that will be OK?

Also, I've found the instruction manual online but it is 30 pages long. It doesn't seem very economical for me to pay to send 30 pages to you since I can only print one sided here, so I thought maybe you could print them? The manual is here. At least I think those are the instructions for mine - I can't find a model number on mine!

If that's all OK I'll pop it in the post tomorrow smile x

TooImmatureMincePies Mon 26-Nov-12 20:59:02

That's fine, Biscuits - I won't bother printing the instructions, I'll just read them off the screen! I'm sure bubble wrap and brown paper will be perfect. Thank you again - you are v generous and I really do appreciate it!

TooImmatureMincePies Mon 26-Nov-12 21:09:58

Have signed up for that trial - really hope I get picked!

I've signed up as well Too! Should be interesting!

Dream I really hope all 3 of your LOs have a good night's sleep with no puking allowed! <gives a stern look to the gorgeous Dreamy Trio> Sounds like there might be hope for no. 4 (in due course!) with MrD making Freudian slips...! wink

Well today I've cut both little A's naps short, and deliberately postponed dinner to 8pm and bedtime to 9pm in a bid to at least avoid the 4 hours of "settling" we went through last night. DD is currently prowling around her cot and occasionally leaning dangerously far over the side when she thinks she might be able to reach and therefore destroy something!

She did manage to crawl forward nearly a foot today, but unfortunately just as we were all getting excited she misplaced her hand and face-planted right on the hard wooden floor sad Now she won't even attempt it for a while.

Oooooo I take it back! Whilst typing she's just had a little crawl in her cot! Smart girl, it's definitely better to practice on the mattress! grin

Do you think the rat smacking philosophy can be applied to sleep? I've decided that by the end of this week little A will be sleeping through (counted as 11pm to 6am) and I will Brook Absolutely No Argument on this! 7 months of no sleep is enough. The time has come!!! <looks wild-eyed and determined!>

<joins scream with wild-eyed determination>

Nearly 8 months of no sleep is enough.

You will sleep you little tikes, dammit!!

Biscuitsandtinsel Mon 26-Nov-12 22:06:02

Right. Enough. I am expecting every single mini no brooker to go to sleep immediately if they are not there already and stay asleep until getting up time (as defined by the relevant parent)*

* A relaxation of this rule may be available for newborn no brookers who will be permitted a limited number of wake-ups for food only. After these, sleep will be resumed immediately and with no fuss.

What do we want?

When do we want it?

scream A sounds cute practising her crawling in her cot and love the description of her cruising round looking for things to destroy! grin

Am also impressed with all these waving babies smile How cute. Am v much looking forward to ds2 learning anything these cute things

Biscuitsandtinsel Mon 26-Nov-12 22:14:26

Hmmmmm, foiled by my own mini no brooker confused.

I think maybe my cheerleading was a little too enthusiastic and perhaps woke him hmm

hohohohawthers Mon 26-Nov-12 22:18:15

Minih was up hourly last night shouting about teeth. Better night tonight please?

musicalmrs Mon 26-Nov-12 22:42:02

Quiet cheerleading from here onwards Biscuits!

Thank you for the pump trial link. Also signed up! smile Too, Scream, hope we all get in!

Hurrah for A's cot crawling Scream!

Too, grr indeed for doctors. Did you get your appointment sorted in the end? In my case it was more grrr at the receptionist. What part of unexplained bleeding, potentially something to do with sore place-where-stitches-are did she think could be diagnosed over the phone?! Daft woman! Still, at least chatting to the doctor got me an earlier appointment smile

We just put the baby gate up at the top of the stairs. There's quite a gap underneath the gate in order to ensure it fit against the bannister right. It's only a matter of time before I trip over it...

<dons pom poms and cheering gear>

...I'd be happy for Iz to go back to sleeping until 4am. I don't mind a 4am feed. She's already woken up once, about 40 mins ago...

DH had an appraisal at work today, which went well. Might result in a slight job change.. but heard they are looking to bring their salaries up in line with county/London standards for their role - in his case, that means a significant pay increase! grin which may mean I can make do with private teaching (if I get a few more students), and won't have to go back to London! I can look for a local role, and not stress about the distance between me and Iz (DH will be travelling a lot - so not really happy with her nearest parent being an hour and a half away!).

Need to think of a Christmassy name...

Anyway- to bed. Crossing fingers and brooking no argument for much better nights all round.

D'oh! Sorry I thought you meant the c-section gel trial! I haven't signed up for a pump trial I'm afraid. Good luck though!

Hooray for MrMusical's likely payrise! Woohoo!

I need to think of a Christmas name too! I'm so hopeless at this kind of thing!

Little A fell asleep after 90 minutes of settling (which is still an improvement on yesterday's nightmare!) so I need to get off this comp and lights out before tonight's fun and games begin! I will be fair and loving but firm and immovable tonight! No co-sleeping! Just kisses, songs and patting! <polishes battle armour, girds loins!> Once more unto the breach dear friends!

Biscuitsandtinsel Tue 27-Nov-12 06:46:09

Can I ask a question of you ladies? Would any of you ever consider donating eggs? It's something I've been thinking about (before I'm too old - I think maybe I could do if next year at the latest) but just wondered if anyone else had ever thought about it? I know a lot of you are still thinking of using your eggs because you want more children but I was kinda thinking now that I don't want any more maybe I could help someone else?

In particular I'd be glad to hear any reservations you would have?

My BBBB's did not heed the cheerleading. They were horrible. S keeps waking up wide awake wanting to play, like yours scream. Except I am losing it . Shouted at dh at midnight for not helping when hr only got home from work exhausted at 9:45pm. Nice.

Oh, and i let s sleep with me after I did his pooey nappy at 5am as he was so awake and putting him back meant b had been woken 2 or 3 times by him already. Ffs.

biscuits I heard with egg donation it was harder to find donors now as its not anonymous any more so your grown biological child could trace you in the future. Or am I totally confused here and mixed up with something fictional I watched?!

Yes, once they're 18 the child born using your egg can.contact you if they wish biscuits


I'm not saying it'd definitely stop me, but i find the thought a bit strange and would have to think hard over how I'd feel.

Biscuitsandtinsel Tue 27-Nov-12 08:11:10

Yes I knew they could trace you but I rather like / liked the idea of helping someone who was struggling. Just raised the idea with DH though and he wasn't too keen. He thinks I should just let myself get back to normal after the DSs and was thinking about what if they did track you down and had a problem? You have no moral, financial or legal obligation to them but if they turned up penniless what would you do? I suppose he makes a decent point there?

I'm nearly too old anyway, and I'm not sure they'd want my dodgy eyes in any event. Hey ho......

TooImmatureMincePies Tue 27-Nov-12 08:40:01

Gosh, that's an interesting idea, Biscuits. I hadn't considered it, no. I suppose I feel a bit ambiguous about the idea of DH donating sperm - same thing, really. Someone turns up aged 18 who is either your child or your DH's but not both, and you have had no input whatsoever into their upbringing...I don't know, I guess I'd feel responsible for them all the same, because they would be my biological child, but it would all be confusing and weird. On the other hand, what if you donated eggs but the child never visited you? How would you feel in 18 years as the time passed and no one contacted you saying 'I'm your biological son'? My aunt gave a baby up for adoption in the early 80s. His name was Adam, and that's all she knows about him. When he would have turned 18 she thought he would find her, but he never did. He must be 28 or 29 now and he's never contacted her. She was devastated - does he not want to find her? Does he hate her for giving him up? Does it just mean that he's very happy with his life and doesn't feel the need? Is he even still alive?

I think I wouldn't be able to stop myself wondering about the baby or babies - and I would want to have them. Selfishly, I would want them to be mine...little cuddly babies of mine, out there somewhere with some other woman mothering them? No. I don't think I could do it. I've lost one baby and it would feel too similar, only this time, I would have volunteered to give them away.

Biscuitsandtinsel Tue 27-Nov-12 09:01:33

Yes, I think maybe I hadn't thought enough about there actually being a future baby, and you're right, you would feel responsible, even if you weren't legally / financially. I'd really been thinking about helping a couple who couldn't conceive (rather like donating blood, you don't think too much about where it goes) but of course there is then potentially a baby (if it even worked). And as you say, there is a baby out there that you've had no input into the upbringing. Most people who have a baby adopted (I imagine) are finding the best solution to a less than ideal situation iyswim. As in people don't set out to have a baby to give up for adoption (does that make sense?). So this would be halfway between the two. And what if they did turn up and hadn't had the same advantages as my two boys (not meaning that to sound smug) I'd feel guilty I think confused. Even if they'd been loved and cared for, I think maybe I would just feel responsible.

And of course it makes total sense you wanting to keep all snuggly too babies to cuddle up with - you've been through something no one should ever have to suffer <squeezes too in an enormous bear hug>. I hope you don't think I was being insensitive raising the idea of giving away eggs, it certainly wasn't my intention to offend.

Interesting what you say about your aunty. How distressing for her. I'd never considered that people who 'give up' (I don't really like that term - it's not like giving up chocolate for lent!) for adoption would be expecting contact down the line. I wonder what the proportion is of children who were adopted that actually make contact? It's entirely possible I suppose that his adopted parents never told him he was adopted?

jaggythistle Tue 27-Nov-12 09:15:55

hello, I'm a bit behind so need to go back and catch up.

DS1 much better, but poor DS2 croaky and coughing now. got practically no sleep and started work at 6am. <opens irn bru for sugar and caffeine boost>

DH was adopted as baby and hasn't ever tried to find his birth parents. (bil also adopted separately) i think DH's birth mother was quite young. MIL sometimes talks about it after a few wine. the wee story about how they picked baby DH up from a home sad think MIL had wee tears in her eyes talking about it. she wasn't able to have babies, had a lot of mcs.

expressing break over, must go back to work.

later dudes...

cakes82 Tue 27-Nov-12 10:56:15

Can someone teach my baby to sleep again please,, after nearly a week of quite good sleeping she has now forgotten how to do it and today wants to feed every 1.5hrs added to which i'm getting a cold I think and af appears to have arrived. Its not fair! <stomps feet>

Anyhow on a seperate note I told dh we were adopting our next child, I was in labour at time. We always said no more than 2 children, didn't want an only child like we both are. I actually asked him what he wanted and he said after stress I put him through with emcs he doesn't want any more children not even adopted ones,,, he said we turned out ok even as only child.

Hope everone else's LO remember how to sleep allowing their parents to actually get some sleep themselves

MIL was adopted and has never tried to find her birth parents. Whilst it's obviously really hard for me to imagine I can't imagine not wanting some kind of medical history for my children more than anything else. I have a blood condition though so am probably a bit paranoid about things like that more than normal!

From what I can gather MILs adoptive parents were ok but not great - they left the PILs homeless with a baby and one on the way when they sold the shop the PILs were managing out from under them. They had a bio son too. Im real nosy and would love to know more but seems wrong to ask somehow.

Think it explains her issues with dd1 a bit. Her interactions with her are about her needing something emotional from dd1 rather than dd1's needs.

<brooking for sleep for everyone>

TooImmatureMincePies Tue 27-Nov-12 11:29:23

Oh, how sad, Jaggy! I mean, how lovely that your MIL adopted him, but how sad to go to a home and see all the babies and children, just like dogs in a rescue home. sad What does your DH think about his birth parents? It's a tricky one - I think sheer curiosity would make me want to try to find mine, if I were adopted, but then I would be worried about the effect on my adoptive mum, and what if the birth mum didn't want to see me? It's a minefield!

Biscuits, you aren't being insensitive at all, don't be silly! I didn't even know how I felt until I started to think about it, so how could you? Thank you for the hug! <basks in big warm bear-hug cuddles>

I don't know much about my aunt's situation - this is stuff that she told my mum, not stuff that she told me directly. But I think when Adam was adopted, she did think she would never see him again, but then later the law changed and she was able to register with some sort of company/database so that if he ever wanted to find her, her details would be available. But he never did.

Biscuitsandtinsel Tue 27-Nov-12 12:21:21

Too pump is on it's way - apologies for the wrapping - I'm terrible at it. It might look like one of the DSs are trapped inside but I've checked and they are both still here grin

JenFrankincenseAndMyrrh Tue 27-Nov-12 12:23:20

Biscuits you are a very generous person thanks

jaggythistle Tue 27-Nov-12 13:01:24

too it is strange not to have any baby pictures of DH before about 6 months when he was eventually adopted. it sounded like the adoption was planned before he was born, but the process seemed to take ages, hence him being in the home for a while. i guess they didn't take pictures there. he doesn't seem that interested about birth parents, i think he'd feel bad for his parents if they knew he was looking into it anyway. some of his baby pics are very like DS2. smile

too much grumbling bitching at work today. we have a work colleague who just rips the piss out of the rest of the team and is lazy and lies to our faces. it is somewhat infuriating. angry

For Sale: 7 month old baby, currently growing a ginger afro mohawk grin and two teeth. Skilled in the art of tugging heartstrings with big well-timed grins. Added bonus: night-time waking mode deters burglars and ensures you don't have to worry about falling asleep and missing out on any of the small hours! Delivery included.

Biscuits you are a kind and selfless person to be considering a step like egg donation. There are so many issues and difficulties with it, but ultimately you'd be giving the gift of a family to people who wouldn't otherwise be able to have one. I personally don't think I could do it, but I'm glad there are women out there who are more generous than me. I think it's a shame that men are so free and easy with sperm donation, but egg donation (understandably) is so scarce. Anyways, I'm not saying you should do it, only you know if it's right for you and your family, but whatever you decide you're still a wonderful person for giving it such serious thought.

Of course we all knew you were wonderful anyway!

Dream sending hugs your way for your difficult night with S. Clearly he's been conspiring with little A and they've decided not to give in without a fight. Last night little A cried from 3 until 6. No breaks. I've never seen anything like it. She literally cried for the entire time she would usually be in my bed, before having her morning milk. I stayed firm (although I had joined in with the crying by the end) and we both pretty much passed out at 6. She then woke at 8 for breakfast, and I'm strictly curtailing her naps again today in the vain hope she'll be too tired tonight for a repeat performance. This is has been the most depressing part of motherhood so far, even worse than the first 8 weeks of bfing. It doesn't help that AF turned up again last night, just to improve my mood even further!

Jaggy boo to irritating co-workers! That's another thing I'm not looking forward to going back to!

Too tired and fed up to think of a Christmas name. At this rate it'll just be "BahHumbug"!

Biscuitsandtinsel Tue 27-Nov-12 14:07:13

scream you poor thing - it sounds so hard sad

This is just a thought and I know CC gets really bad press, but you know if A is crying anyway, do you think part of it is her seeing you there? Although tbf, 3 hours is a pretty impressive effort - can't knock her stamina! But I just wondered whether maybe it would be worth giving it a go?totally understand if that's not what you want to do though. What do you do in her room? Any physical contact? Picking up? Cuddling? I'm stabbing in the dark here though, I just wish I could help! sad Or maybe one of those no cry solutions or whatever the one was that Dream was doing with her dd when pg with the twins - gradual withdrawal from the room type thing?

musicalmrs Tue 27-Nov-12 14:39:59

Biscuits, what a kind, generous person you are considering egg donation. It's something I'm wondering if I'll consider further down the line. If you donate them, do you get told if they're used? I think the whole 18 year old coming to you years down the line may be a bit distressing - or, as Too says, it could easily go the other way, being distressed at not hearing anything from them. Very difficult.

It must have been so sad for your MIL Jaggy. I went to a baby home in India when I was there - loads and loads of tiny babies crawling around - they loved seeing me and my travelling companions, and just wanted to be played with for ages. It was lovely but so, so sad. The travelling was part of a school trip - one of my teachers later went back and adopted a baby from a similar home!

Sorry to hear about the rubbish nights sad Iz didn't have a brilliant night, though not as bad as Dream's BBBBs, or Scream's A. Three hours must have been horrendoussad

What with Biscuits talking about CC, I'm thinking of a new sleep solution - CS - Controlled Shouting. I've noticed Iz shouts a lot at night to get my attention. Last night she shouted for a few minutes, and I eventually got up - but knowing it might take a while to get her down, I popped to the loo - during which she fell back to sleep! I've realised she'll do her trying-to-sleep noises after shouting for a few minutes... so I'm guessing I should be leaving her to shout for a couple of minutes now when she wakes at night?

Biscuits I just pat and sing to little A, make sure she doesn't get tangled up in the cot bars while prowling around, and generally try to soothe her. If she gets particularly hysterical I give her a hug while she's standing up in the cot and I'm the other side of the bars. She's so tired poor thing she always tries to sleep on me in this position. When she's calm again though I try lying her back down and the crying invariably resumes.

I stay with her because my theory is at least I know she's not afraid. I have an absolute abhorrence of the idea that she might be alone and afraid and calling out for me but I'm not coming. At least when I'm in the room, and right by her, although she's crying because she wants to be held, at least I don't think she's afraid of her surroundings or scared I'll never return. I'm probably all wrong with this though, I'm probably making it worse by being in the room but not picking her up. I'm trying to be consistent, by not picking her up. I want her to discover that if she lies down and goes to sleep I will always still be there when she wakes, so there's no reason not to feel comfortable in the cot. If I pick her up I think I'm sending the message that if she just cries hard enough and long enough eventually I'll pick her up - I don't think that helps either of us.

I'm hoping to try Dream's gradual withdrawal thing, but first I have to get DD to sleep in the cot with me in the room, before I can start withdrawing.

It's so upsetting for us both though. I'm pretty sure I'm doing it all wrong. Little A is so unhappy each night, and I just want to pick her up and comfort her. However she always wants to spend the whole night with me, and I just can't do it anymore. I desperately wish she would just sleep through, although that seems so impossible right now.

Argh, let's not think about the gradual retreat aka Landing Vigil. Too depressing. S woke B up 3 times when I was trying to put S back down before I cried gave up. Stubborn, irritating little tikes eh scream. I'm so stuck because its so unfair poor b gets so disturbed, debating travel cot downstairs for s. B had a bad night anyway though. And is a bit constipated again. I've upped the dairy in my diet. Hmm.

Yawn. I'm tired and fed up.

Biscuitsandtinsel Tue 27-Nov-12 15:30:30

Your logic makes total sense Scream and of course you've thought this all through. As for 'doing it wrong' there is no right way to deal with this sort of thing (or indeed most of the things we deal with as parents). Ultimately though you are thinking of the best way to do it for A so if she is at the centre of what you're planning, you can't be going far wrong smile. I'm sure if you're consistent she'll get the hang of it. She will get it, she will!

Now I fear I'm getting too much credit for being a Good Person blush. I don't even know if I would donate eggs or even if they'd want me. I'd not really considered the 'future child' aspect and was really coming at it from the idea of helping a couple who were struggling, like some of the lovely people we see on here etc. obviously it is important to think it all through. It's not really ideal to have to so it so soon either as it is bound to take a long time / lot of effort / lot of appts etc and of have to do it before I'm 36 I think.

I might ring and ask if they would even consider me with my defective eyes as that could put a halt to it all before I waste any brain power on it!

Argh, I x posted before scream and just seen now that the reply I wrote isn't here. Gah.

Briefly it said I'm struggling with consistency now as D woke B up 3 times last night, which is horrible for B and hard for me. Considering travel cot downstairs for S so he doesn't disturb B... Who's also not doing so well, bit constipated, I've upped my chocolate dairy intake, hmm.

But DD would never go to sleep with me in her room, or if she could see me, she just watched me and was too aware of my every movement- I'd think she was nearly asleep, itch my arm or something and she'd be checking out what i was up to. that's why I had to be on the landing. S is also best just left, with me not in sight though I can 'shush shush shush' from behind their solid cot ends. might be worth a try. I've never left them crying though for the reasons you've said.

Right, on with bath time for me. Dreading tonight. I hate it when they wake up perky and wanting to play every two hours, such a palavar. Bring back just feeding to sleep!!!!

Oh, and negligent mother that I am,I just realised B is now significantly taller and heavier feeling than S, who was always my bigger baby. Seeing as B eats well and S doesn't, wondering what i can/ should do... Guess I better get them weighed. They've not been weighed since they were 18 weeks, 3 months ago!!!

jaggythistle Tue 27-Nov-12 20:24:20

that's not negligent, i only just got R weighed last week after missing the clinic day loads of times. he was a 'wee' 20lb lump at 7 months. grin

he's still quite rubbish at food. a new added complication is that he sleeps through 1 or 2 meal times every day and frankly i don't always have the time or energy to get him something when he wakes up. he looked quite interested in dinner then burst into tears as he was so tired. he had a feed instead and was
asleep in 2 minutes.

still croaking away the poor wee guy.

away to attempt an early transfer to cot, here goes nothing...

I didn't mean the not weighing being negligent, I meant only just noticing how titchy he's looking compared to his little brother- who's not so little now!! I offer food if they sleep through a meal, just to make my days even more annoying. S is refusing spoon feeding but its just baby led vomiting if he does it himself. So frustrating.

biscuits, you're a lovely person. Most people would realize what's involved in egg harvesting and give up on the idea! It's a lovely thought. Someone at work carried twins for her brother and his wife and I was just so impressed and when i had my boys the section after mine was twin boys who were also with a surrogate mother. I got freaked out when i saw the twins with their mum about how bad I looked compared to her after having them but then realised she'd not actually been pregnant!!

Oh, and your poor boy jaggy, hope he's better soon, & mine too . Hope he's asleep in his cot now and you get some rest. I'm in awe of you working after no sleep thanks and brew

cakes82 Tue 27-Nov-12 21:29:19

Hope all mum's and LO's have a good night.

Yo Brookers, things have been a bit hectic here. I've been reading but not had time to post.

Scream I'm brooking that you get some night time respite ASAP. Your problem has stumped me, I've not idea what to suggest but as with most things I suspect that in a year's time you will look back on this and barely remember how awful it feels right now. This too shall pass and all that.

Also brooking for Jaggy and Dream and their poorly babies.

Good luck for your appointment tomorrow Musical

How spooky re the egg donation Biscuits in that it's something I'd also been pondering recently. I guess it's because we both feel our families are complete. I go round and round in circles thinking that I'd love to give that gift to someone and how it would change someone's life and how shitty and unfair Mother Nature can be, to thinking that the reality of it would probably be I would always be wondering about 'my child/children'. Are they happy? Are they loved? Are they healthy? Are they being brought up in a stable environment? What if my known DC by some stroke of minuscule chance end up meeting them without realising and have a sexual/romantic relationship. My current thoughts on it are that I would do it for a close relative or friend where I would be known to the child, I don't think I could do it for a stranger. I admire anyone that has done it.

DS had his coeliac blood test today. I did feel awful for making him go through with it when they couldn't get any from his arm and went into his hand instead. He's got a bit of a nasty bruise on his hand but he seems quite proud of it now bless him.

DD is a snotbag. She and I are both absolutely full of cold but she's smiling though it. I'm being a wimp because it all seems to be behind my eyes and in my head and I'm feeling dreadful with it.

I finally had my date with Daniel Craig. I absolutely loved it and can't wait for it to come out on DVD now.

Ooh yes have a fab time Pomme

Those of you planning your next DC envy. Although I'm happy that we're done, I know i'm still always have pangs for newborn snuggles with my own DC.

Ooooo yes, good luck with last minute packing/prep for your weekend away Pomme!

Sending hugs to Scarlet, I hope you feel better soon my lovely, head colds are quite awful. No brooking hard for all the poorly mini No Brookers (Scarlet's DD, Dream's S and Jaggy's DS2, plus any others I've missed!) to feel better asap!

Poor little A has a horrible temperature tonight, still over 37 degrees after both paracetamol and ibuprofen. She doesn't seem ill in any other way, and she bit me hmm with her two new teeth for the first time today (ow!) so I can only assume there are more teeth on their way. Sigh. She's so hot and clingy that I don't have the heart to be as consistent at keeping her in her cot as I was last night, but I also don't want to confuse her by going back to co-sleeping. So I foresee a night of pick-up-put-down ahead, and that went down like a lead balloon when I tried it a few weeks ago. Sigh.

In other news she's officially a crawler now! Crawling all around the front room! Sooooo cute! Hopefully this will placate my Nan who had a 'Big Talk' with me the other day about how if I was living at home with DH little A would spend less time in the car driving between my house and my parents' house, hence she would have more time to cruise around her cot, hence she'd be walking by now hmm Somehow we got from me failing as a wife to me failing as a mother in only 2 moves! Sigh. She means well, and normally she's absolutely wonderful, but short of physical violence she cannot understand why I've moved out.

Hmmm, xmas pressies... Does anyone here have a Nexus 7? I can't justify the cost of an ipad mini given I already have a pretty shiny laptop that's less than a year old and a pretty shiny iphone that's about 6 months old. So I'm considering alternatives. Any recommendations?

I hope all the babies are kind to us tonight! Especially Dream's BBBBs!

DD was up and very vocal from 1.30 to 3. I think she's finally down again now. Is there any chance, any hope whatsoever, that this stint could be in lieu of the usual 3am-onwards screaming fest?! Or was this just an added bonus before the rest of the night's standard fun?! Place your bets now...!

Instead of scream

5 wake ups from S (who still has the runs) 2 from B. I've got a headache and am feeling meh about it all.

What a brave boy scarlet . Hope it's negative. And head colds are so horrible, thank goodness your DD isn't super whingey yet for you to deal with too.

Best go, B woken up, (s up. Fed, nappied and playing of course) DD still quiet?!?!?

Biscuitsandtinsel Wed 28-Nov-12 09:28:16

I'm hoping it was instead of Scream

Sorry for another bad night Dream - am brooking no argument that S is better soon and back on solids (and of course suddenly finding a liking for sleeping through!

Now I've just had a thought - I haven't thought through the logistics of this at all so apologies if it is a silly idea but did B and S sleep better when they shared a travel cot? I just wondered whether they might sleep or self settle a bit better in the night if they shared a cot? Would they even both fit in one cot?

The only thing that made me think of it was I remember going to view a house when we were buying and one house we went to had a little girl and then twin boys and when we saw the twins room the beds were pushed together and the lady said (not that we commented on it or anything, she brought it up) 'Oh they always sleep together. When they were babies I used to find if I put them in separate cots that one would climb into the other cot by the morning'. Now they were older obviously than your two but only sort of primary school age.

Biscuitsandtinsel Wed 28-Nov-12 09:28:59

And hope you're feeling better in the Scarlet household. Hope DS's test results come back OK - when should you find out?

musicalmrs Wed 28-Nov-12 11:09:25

Scarlet, you have a brave DS. Hope the results come back quickly.

Dream, sorry you've had yet another bad night sad I wonder if Biscuit's idea would help? Didn't they used to share?

Also hoping it was instead Scream!

Not a good night here. After several nights of not co-sleeping I ended up chucking her in bed with us, just so I could get some sleep. I have lunch with some composery friends in London later, and wanted to be semi with it! Will try and be slightly more strict tonight - though I'm well aware that it's probably (still!) her teeth bugging her. I also have a concert tomorrow, so will have to ensure I get at least some sleep.. hmm.

Doctors went well. Apparently I have fanjo eczema as a result of the tear?! Anyway, I have cream and bath stuff (or at least, will when I hvae a chance to go to the pharmacy), and all will be well. Hopefully.

Supposed to be at baby group, but Iz has suddenly zonked out on me (after avoiding her morning nap, hmm!) so will have to skip it..

Sorry to hear about Musical's Iz and Dream's DTs having a bad night sad Hope you have fun at lunch Musical! Sending a big bear hug to Dream to chase away meh-ness!

Little A slept from 3 til 6, which is a vast improvement on screaming from 3 to 6! She was then up until 7, before zonking out until 10 hmm Why exactly can't she manage 4 hours at night if she can do it in the morning?! I've been so good about getting her up before 8 this week, but today I was just so tired that I also slept until ten. Cue the midnight bedtime again tonight. Sigh.

Feeling a bit fed up with the whole sleep thing. I do feel sorry for DD though, her temp is still really high today, although I'm trying to give her a few hours break from the meds. I want to see how high it goes, in case I've been masking a more serious problem with repeat doses of calpol/nurofen.

Scarlet how is your DS's hand today? I hope the bruise has pretty much gone. No Brooking for good results!

how are her naps scream? how long can see normally go between them? I'd be thinking one nap and early bedtime on a 10am wake up but then I'm all about 7pm bedtimes! I NEED an evening!

She usually starts slowing down / thumb sucking about 2 1/2 hours after waking. I've been keeping her up for a minimum of 3 hours between naps. Previously she used to have two naps during the day and be ready to go to bed around 8. Now with her late rising I find that if I stick to the three hour gap between naps, she'll still go down around 8 but she'll treat that as a third nap, and she'll be up dancing around from 9 til midnight.

I'm just not sure that I could get her to have only one nap in the day. She'd be so grumpy and fretful/clingy all day, and then it'd be a nightmare getting her down at 6 or 7 when she's so overtired. Plus she'd just end up treating bedtime like her missing nap, and get up at 8 or 9 again.

Thanks for the suggestion though Pomme. Apologies if I've been negative in response to all the help you lovely ladies have offered me. I'm just exhausted and feeling a bit hopeless about it all. My sister didn't sleep through until about 4yo (seriously, she'd get up every night and cry outside my parents' bedroom door keeping the whole family up). Little A's oldest cousin started school in Sept and he's the same, still getting up every night. I just feel like this problem is never going to end and I'm going to be getting up all night every night for YEARS to come!

Sorry, it's probably just AF making me such a grump. I'll go take my iron supplement and a medicinal bar of chocolate and try to find my No Brooking spirit!

Sounds like wine is in order Scream. I'm the queen of negative thinking and always fear the worst, so I know I'm giving out advice that I wouldn't give to myself BUT, please try not to get yourself down by coming to the conclusion that A will be like your sister and other relative. She probably won't be. She's still so tiny and it's probably her teeth making her like this. I'm sure you'll find a way to break the habit over the next few weeks.

Musical so pleased you have a diagnosis! There is a name for it, but it escapes me now. I had the exact same thing weirdly caused by be going on a horrifically long bike ride a couple of years ago confused. I'd never had it before or since! The cream cleared it up within a fortnight IIRC. Probably the most embarrassing thing I've ever seen my GP for.

I spoke too soon about DD smiling through the snot. I had a horrendous night with her and she's also spent this morning crying and sicking up snot poor thing. I'm also feeling rubbish so am going to join Scream in eating some chocolate. DS has proudly been showing his friends at playgroup his poor hand and is absolutely fine today. I think it takes about a week to get the results.

Sounds like you've definitely earned some wine Scarlet! Poor you, and poor DD. I hope it goes quickly!

It just so happens that I picked up some M&S mulled wine the other day... but if I crack it open now my parents will think I'm an alcoholic. Only if they find out of course! wink <tries to ignore the fact that hiding alcohol consumption is a sign of alcoholism>

hohohohawthers Wed 28-Nov-12 14:16:30

Hey scream I don't know whether this would be possible but I saw a sleep consultant a little while ago for a seminar and she does one on one advice where she has a 99% success rate for sleeping through. She uses a variety of techniques depending on the parents attitude. I highly recommend her but it costs 175 or 199 I think. So not cheap but I'd totally pay her triple that for a full nights sleep can pm her details if you ate interested

Oooo Hawthers, that's a fantastic idea! Thanks! Please can you send me her details? What did you think of her?

Dh and I had set Dec 1st as our deadline for getting a sleep specialist in hawthers and scream. I'd definitely sacrifice other things for sleep!

hohohohawthers Wed 28-Nov-12 14:26:20

[[ http://childsleepsolutions.co.uk/?load=iphone#_contactpage nicola]] hope that works. She.did a seminar at my house and she just seemed down to earth and sympathetic and if f hadnt sorted it out himself I would have been booking the premium package asap. Life is just so much more managable in sleep as pomme will testify! It def helped my relationship with DH which alone would be worth it

That website looks good! Thanks Hawthers! I'll be talking DH into that later today... I like the idea of starting the 4 week period while I'm at my parents' house, covering the xmas madness, and finishing up when we're back home. Then I'll feel like I can implement the plan in any situation, rather than only when everything else is perfectly stable (which is about two weeks a year!)

musicalmrs Wed 28-Nov-12 17:56:50

Scarlet - a bike ride?! How bizarre confused Glad it cleared up for you so quickly though - hope it does the same for me. Haven't had a chance to fill the prescription yet, but maybe tomorrow. Yes - rather embarassing seeing the GP, but it wasn't my GP persay - plus I'd already had the conversation with the nurse when I had my smear test, so I think I'm all embarassed out!

Had a nice lunch in London, but it was Very Academic. It was lovely seeing other composers, but I'm so unused to talking contemporary art type talk that my brain has turned to mush. I think it's partly because I'm so shattered. I feel that bone-aching tiredness I last felt when Iz was a newborn. Ick!

While we were there, a policeman friend happened to be on duty (random!), and gave Iz a cuddle - photos of cuddling a policeman in uniform are very cute grin.

Tonight all I have to do after she's gone to bed is run through six pieces of piano accompaniment for a concert tomorrow and plan a rehearsal, then I think I'll go hide in bed...

Scream, Hawthers's consultant sounds good. She won't end up like your relative or sister though - this too will pass. For all of us who are stuck with it! Also very very glad DH has a long weekend this weekend - hoping he can help out a bit and let me get a little more sleep...

Biscuitsandtinsel Wed 28-Nov-12 18:00:21

Oooh musical can you fb the pics? Or is that against the law somehow? confused

Musical sorry it wasn't vaginal eczema that I had. It was a condition called Lichen Sclerosus. My GP likened it to eczema which Is where I've got confused. I've just Googled it again as it was a while ago that I had it. It was bloody horrible anyway and I was sooo relieved when it cleared up. I don't know for definite that it was the bike ride but it was the only unusual thing that I had done that I could think of. I'd not been on a bike for about 10 years before then! blush I really do share too much information I fear.

Biscuitsandtinsel Wed 28-Nov-12 18:58:52

I knew bikes were Bad For You grin

grin biscuits

scream I got up at least twice a night every night til I went to school, then it very rapidly stopped. I've always had difficulty falling asleep, from babyhood. My dad is an insomniac. My grandmother was an insomniac. My mum has problems with early waking. Sleep problems are rife in my family. DD sleeps through. A will sleep much better, soon. But I feel your despair. I've got the bone aching tiredness as musical describes. It bloody well must will pass.

Oooo you've terrified me now Dream! Sounds like insomnia could run in families, and I've been an insomniac since school! Argh!

However I agree, this MUST pass! Just for tonight though I'm afraid I've thrown in the towel. I've just been really down about the whole mess all day and my Mum very sweetly insisted on taking DD tonight. I know that means she'll have a night of inconsistent indulgent Nana cuddles, instead of strict Mummy, but she's still got a temp so she deserves a few extra cuddles and it's hardly like my techniques have been working!

2nd grin being sent Biscuits' way! I couldn't agree more!

2nd request for posting on FB of the police uniform pics Musical!

<Heads back to sofa to finish off medicinal pizza with medicinal garlic bread and medicinal ice cream (extra bad!) to be followed by medicinal mulled wine. Ahem>

no scream, its encouraging- all my bad sleep genes, and I was expecting a baby who wouldn't sleep through for years and I got DD, nightmare at first but slept through at nearly 11 weeks grin . And I do think the Sleep Hell with her for those 6 months later was my pregnancy freaking her out. How's your dh's sleep?! And envy envy envy at your night off. Enjoy it guilt free. It's all different when they're ill.

3rd request for pics musical smile

Dream it's just that your Gran had a sleepless DC - your Dad. Then your Dad had a sleepless DC - you. Now you have the DTs... However they are mini No Brookers so the family trait stops here! We will Brook No Argument that the insomnia won't last in your house or mine! My DH could sleep through the Second Coming grin, unfortunately it seems to be the only area in which DD takes after me! The ginger afro mohawk is totally her father's fault grin

Why do I always forget how mean MN is outside of our little No Brooker bubble?! I posted an idle silly question about 'Come Dine With Me' in Chat (not AIBU) and a bunch of people have come back saying "it's not real life you know". Well duh! I'd kinda guessed it's a bit staged, I don't think it's exactly a somber documentary of modern day dining habits. Do people need to be so sarky/patronising?!

Biscuitsandtinsel Wed 28-Nov-12 22:32:34

I'm far to scared to post anywhere else on MN apart from sometimes in recipes / baking (to ask for help of course rather than offer any help!). You ladies are so lovely that you've spoilt me too much - I couldn't deal with the meanies elsewhere grin

And I've read your thread and I think you make an excellent point smile

TooImmatureMincePies Wed 28-Nov-12 23:10:07

I tried to purchase medicinal wine this morning, only to be told off by the checkout lady in Tesco - it was only 9.40 am. Oops. Stupid licencing laws. Then I never got around to going back for it.

Total bedtime fail here - we got home v late, by which time M had been asleep in the car for 2 hours. Had leisurely dinner/painted kitchen walls (Farrow and Ball Plummet, anyone?)/supper/bath and then first attempt at bed. All was going well until M suddenly gagged at the boob and started choking. After a few minutes of coughing and spluttering she coughed up a piece of apple peel from her supper. By this time she was wide awake and sitting up on my knee with me thumping her on the back. Went back to living room, 20 minutes quiet rolling followed by second attempt at bed. Went and bf M, started smelling really awful stench. Thought it was the dog at first, but it gradually dawned on me that it was tiny stinker instead. She hasn't pooed at night for months and months! By the time I'd taken her out of the sleeping bag and changed her she was, you've guessed it, wide awake again. hmm She's now rolling around on the floor at my feet quite happily.

Brooking that no mini-Brookers are insomniacs, no matter what their family history! It's not on. Fact. Also, both DH and I could sleep for Britain and M keeps waking up every couple of hours, so where does she fit in?

Off to read Scream's other thread now!

Mmmmmmm... Mulled wine


hohohohawthers Thu 29-Nov-12 07:43:01

We had 30 mins yowling at bedtime which never happens so we went straight to calpol as he's been clearly bothered by his teeth for a few days now.

All fine until 3 apart from a get up at 1.30 by ds1. But at 3 all hell broke loose. F was up shouting and would only be quiet if I was cuddling him, more calpol, bonjela and teething granules and DS1 woke up... Finally I gave him some milk at 4 ish as he had refused one if his bottles in the day and he wolfed it down. It still took 30 mins to get him to settle properly after that but DS1 was buggering about so not surprising. And of course he is still asleep now.

The question is could it be separation anxiety instead of teeth? I'm back at work next week and the nanny started this week and had f most of the day yesterday and Tuesday which match with the worst nights sleep in ages.

And my mil is coming to stay tonight and thinks children should be able to sleep through anything so generally isn't very quiet. And DH is out at a work thing he can't miss so I've got it all on my own <sobs> hats off to those that do it on their own. Way better mums than me

musicalmrs Thu 29-Nov-12 09:33:09

Scream did you enjoy your night off? Did A behave well for Nana? smile

Hawthers, good call on the calpol. Sorry F's being trouble at night -separation anxiety sounds likely, but a bit worrying if so sad Maybe he's just adjusting to the nanny? God luck with the MIL sad

Better night here last night - though by no means wonderful. I'm going to judge nights on how human I feel in the morning though.. and I'm feeling a lot better today! Whether I'll be at all with it by choir rehearsal and performance this evening is another matter altogether!

Too, very sad about the medicinal wine!

I must have written a post last night, and not posted it. Not sure about police officer pictures being against the law :P Have remembered he's a PCSO not a fully fledged police officer at the moment! I didn't have the pictures, but text the PCSO's other half, who has sent the picture on to me! When I have a minute I'll post it on the brooking page :D

TooImmatureMincePies Thu 29-Nov-12 09:37:10

Gaah. Longest sleep stretch 1.5 hours. And she didn't go to sleep until 11.50pm. <weeps> I wondered if M was too hot, so I turned the heating down a notch. She woke up a lot, plus she had icy paws at 6, so I don't think it's that. Still, I had had the heating turned up to 22 degrees blush and have now put it to 18 and the temperature in the nursery stayed between 18 and 20 all night, so I am persevering with a cooler house in the interests of our heating bill.

Poor Hawthers, that sounds grim. Hope tonight is much better and MIL doesn't wake anybody up.

NinjaChipmunksGotShinyBaubles Thu 29-Nov-12 09:56:11

just trying a chrimbo name change out, what do you think?
only a v quick one from me to say hi as M is moaning for milk and the washing machine is being delivered this morning so got to clear space (I have soooooo much washing to do as have done none since beginning of last week for all 4 of us)
Anyway hi to all and hope all is well, will try to get back on later if at all possible. Mwah mwah.

NinjaChipmunksShinyRedBaubles Thu 29-Nov-12 10:10:32

i think i prefer this name.....

TooImmatureMincePies Thu 29-Nov-12 10:33:40

I thought it was going to be BigBaubles, Ninja? I like RedBaubles better out of those two.

angry I phoned the doctor's surgery at 9.07am. Readers of my earlier rant will know that you have to call between 8.30 and 9.30 on a Thursday in the hope of getting an appointment. I used Ringback because it was engaged. It is now 10.31 and it still hasn't rung me back. I keep getting pissed off and calling to check that the Ringback is working and sure enough, the number is still engaged. F*cking useless system. Oh, and I got a reply from the practice manager to my complaint basically saying they are working on it and I should see improvements in the spring. Yeah, because that helps. I've emailed him back to say that I'm trying to phone and they're continually engaged.

Biscuitsandtinsel Thu 29-Nov-12 11:11:41

Oh grrrrrr Too!

How frustrating! It really is ridiculous z if it were me if take M as an emergency appt and it would be their own fault for having such a ridiculous unworkable system! Can you make a non emergency appt in person rather than phoning in the ridiculous windows they give you?

Ninja shock at a week's worth of washing! You poor thing! It nearly broke me catching up about 4 days worth when our washing machine broke! How's the new place? All fab I hope although I can't abide the mess of moving - hope it's not too bad xx Have some low maintenance new home thanks that don't need watering gringrin

NinjaChipmunksShinyRedBaubles Thu 29-Nov-12 11:21:53

its good thaks biscuits and it has some lovely things like original part-stained glass front door, victorian tiles on the porch floor, stripped wooden doors and high ceilings upstairs. I'm soo looking forward to having a washing machine, we are drowning in washing here, it is in every room and breeding constantly.

Right so answers on a postcard please - which do you prefer

NinjaChipmunksShinyRedBaubles Thu 29-Nov-12 11:22:31


Biscuitsandtinsel Thu 29-Nov-12 11:30:19

I like shiny red for my money.

The house sound awesome! Are you having work done to it? When does it start / has it started yet?

TooImmatureMincePies Thu 29-Nov-12 11:32:17

NinjaChipmunksGotBigBaubles! grin

I painted my kitchen grey yesterday and this morning I hate it. sad Will do the second coat anyway and see if I like it better then.

Hurray, DH has taken the afternoon off! He left his wallet here and I have been bombarding him with complaints about the doctor and the kitchen and sending him links to expensive wall stickers.

NinjaChipmunksGotBigBaubles Thu 29-Nov-12 11:37:32

ooh too our old kitchen was a lovely colour called potters clay, a kind of lilacy grey. Twas lovely with the wooden worktop and table and white cupboards. Kitchen here is crap and falling apart a bit. I miss my lovely old (but brand new) kitchen <sniff>
No work going on here yet. Not sure when...

Biscuitsandtinsel Thu 29-Nov-12 13:41:17

Argh! Just updated the MN iPhone app on my phone and now it doesn't seem to mind me going on to this thread but if I go on to either the brooking ttc thread or the ante natal brooking thread it just crashes! How frustrating!

They do have some new icons on here though - there are now buttons for thanksbrewwinebiscuit(what is that? A biscuit?)envy. Also not sure what these ones are: shockhmmconfusedsad

Lets try this:

shock shock?
sad sad?
confused confused?
hmm hmm?

Biscuitsandtinsel Thu 29-Nov-12 13:42:12

Hmmmm, I don't think confused or hmm look anything like the normal ones.

Not a great job MNHQ!

NinjaChipmunksGotBigBaubles Thu 29-Nov-12 14:12:07

how do you not know the biscuit biscuit biscuit? You'll be saying you've never seen the bear soon!

Biscuitsandtinsel Thu 29-Nov-12 14:17:28

I've seen the biscuit before but it used to look more like a jammy dodger - now it's a weird burnt digestive looking thing (on this new 'improved' app at least) hmm Darn I need a raised eyebrow on that hmm!

What were you saying I wouldn't have seen - it just came up as a space on here....

NinjaChipmunksGotBigBaubles Thu 29-Nov-12 14:25:21

the bear.

Biscuitsandtinsel Thu 29-Nov-12 14:45:42

Ah yes - I'd forgotten all about him!

Biscuitsandtinsel Thu 29-Nov-12 14:46:30

I feel terribly cut off particularly as smegs is going to pop any day and I can't get the ante natal brooking thread to load! What if I'm missing a sneeze birth!?!?!?! shock

hohohohawthers Thu 29-Nov-12 16:17:08

oh blimey I've just added the mn app and its confusing me - just get out more. both boys have had good naps here so hope they might sleep tonight but of course their naps totally didn't overlap so no nap for hawthers sad angry

This new MN app is strange! I read Biscuits' message with all the icons in it on the old app first, and it made no sense to me (sorry! blush). Then I updated my app and suddenly it made perfect sense! grin I agree, some of the new icons are odd looking.

DD was a little angel for her Nana last night. Stayed in her cot from 11.30pm to 7am with no crying, no milk, just a little bit of patting/soothing on two occasions. Unbelievable!

It's official, DD only can't sleep when I'm around sad (is that the new sad face? Or is it this hmm?!) I'm gutted though. She still likes to check there's someone with her, but if its not me she just goes back to sleep, when it is me she cries herself sick for 3 hours trying to get me to pick her up. Sob sob. I still don't know how to resolve this! I can only think that I'm going to have to do proper CC, and actually leave the room (or at least pretend to leave by hiding) even if she's crying. I guess I should check back every 5 mins? Ugh, I feel sick even considering it! What if she falls and bangs her head?! Or gets tangled up in the cot bars (as she often does).

I just need to stop stressing I guess, it doesn't help. Mum's going to have her again tonight anyway, in a bid to get her used to spending the whole night in the cot. We'll just take it one day at a time.

How are all the mini No Brookers this eve? We bought DD's stocking today grin

JenFrankincenseAndMyrrh Thu 29-Nov-12 17:21:36

They look the same as usual here on my laptop.

JenFrankincenseAndMyrrh Thu 29-Nov-12 18:53:03

Is anyone else here doing the MN Secret Santa? My pressie arrived today so I need to get it all packaged up ready to send out now.

TooImmatureMincePies Thu 29-Nov-12 20:43:28

Hello everyone!

Biscuits, the breastpump arrived, thank you very much! That was really quick. I haven't tried it yet because we spent all afternoon in Ikea buying far too much stuff and I need the milk to stay in my boobs in the evenings and nights because M wakes up so often. I'll have a go with it tomorrow and let you know how it does.

Oh Scream. sad Maybe if your mum has A at night she'll get into the habit of sleeping through. Is it bad that I was just considering driving M around for 7 hours to get her in the habit of sleeping?

So, am trying the No-Cry Sleep Solution thing where you feed the baby, take the nipple out and put them straight into the cot. M cried and struggled the first 3 times and the 4th time she fell asleep so fast she was asleep before I could stand up. hmm So no 'awake but sleepy', despite my best efforts.

Ninja, is potter's clay a Fired Earth colour? My mum is obsessed with shades of grey (fnar fnar - not in that way!) and can name all the Farrow and Ball colours at a glance. I have done the second coat and I like it now!

scream two wake ups by S, including a ginormous poo at 3am (so wide awake changed baby) and went back to sleep (on the boob) fine both times. Hoorah!!!! However, B up once, and DD up 3 times. I;m never getting any sleep, am I? sad . So, no, neither of us will have insomniac babies. Fact. I think maybe you could try a pick up/ put down then retreat technique. My DD would never go to sleep with me there, unless she's ill. I go in now, pick her up, cuddle her, put her down and tell her we all love her, and leave again, and go in and repeat each time she calls/ gets upset. Sometimes she doesn't call at all (if she's had no nap!), tonight I went back in 3 time and dh once . But no tears for sleep, so I'm happy. I think if your mum helps get her in good sleep habits its no bad thing, and its horrible when they won't do it for you though.... dd used to only settle for dh, and scream if I left the room (as she couldn't bear me to go). I found it upsetting and worrying, as I literally couldn't get her to bed if dh wasn't here (which at least one evening a month he isnt when he works til 10pm). It passed, it was a phase. Keep the faith!!!

Incidentally too, I couldn't give a monkeys if my babies don't look tired and will happily play, white noise on, into the cots, giggling and singing or not. More often than not they'll go to sleep anyway. Maybe have to go in and soothe a couple of times, but I've been amazed when I've thought they'd howl, but as bedtime time is so rigid I think they're programmed for it now?! I do it regardless of naps too, so when I let S sleep 90 minutes up to 5 pm the other night I thought I'd be stuffed, but no, I stuck him awake gurgling in his cot as per usual, waited for the howls.... and nothing. Sometimes he complains for a couple of minutes, but even I can ignore that!

Scream I still haven't figured out how to copy and paste links using my iPad, but if you Google "Airwrap" you will find this amazing mesh type thing that goes round the cot to stop the baby getting limbs stuck between bars. It's not a bumper as there's no ties, no padding and it's vented. It's like travel cot mesh that velcros on. We got it for DD about 6 weeks ago and it's been fab, I only wish we'd got it for DS when he was tiny. Anyway, enjoy another good night's sleep. At least you know now that there's not anything wrong as such, she's just knows how to get what she wants from you. Clever thing! What do you think you might do about it?

Love the Christmas name changes. I need to come up with something but I'm very unimaginitive.

Jen what's this secret Santa thing?

I now have 2 poorly DC. I dream of having month go by where I don't have to take DS to our GP. I suspect my GP feels the same! So today he gets up and his face and ears are absolutely covered in a red spotty rash. Non specific apparently which means they don't know but probably viral. We're supposed to have friends coming to stay this weekend but as they have 2 small DC I suppose we better cancel just in case he's contagious sad DD is still full of snot, as am I. I'm just totally fed up with bloody illnesses.

musicalmrs Thu 29-Nov-12 23:07:30

Dream, I think your very rigid bedtimes are a good idea. We try to do the same, although I often feed to sleep - mainly because at that time she often falls asleep eating! If she doesn't sleep straight away then I can put her down awake and she'll chatter herself off to sleep. Yet to try white noise, but maybe it would help us through the night...

Scream, have you tried leaving the room when A is crying? I don't mean leaving her to do it for ages and ages, but have you given it a go at all? Maybe if you weren't in there she would just sleep? I know that if Iz isn't starving she'll shout, then quieten down, then make her trying-to-get-to-sleep noise... and then will start shouting (and maybe crying) if she's still unhappy. Either way, her spending another night with your Mum may help her get into the habit, like you say!

Too, we're off to Ikea tomorrow - probably also to spend too much. I hear they have glasses, plates etc with musical notes on, which I fear may tempt me...

Was out at bedtime tonight (oo get me), but apparently Iz behaved impeccably smile Although she didn't want DH to give her milk - so he got out the bottle with handles and she did it herself. Woke up just as I got home, so have fed her.. will see how long she lasts.

Haven't forgotten the photo (it's not that good-when I get round to it, probably during a night feed, it'll be rather disappointing!).

...having just written that, she's woken up. Argh! But she's making her sleepy noise... fingers crossed...

Dream rigid bedtimes sound like an excellent plan, I must follow suit! I tend to flex bedtime depending on morning wake time / naps / illness / good tv programme (blush) etc etc. So no real bedtime at all. I must do better.

Thanks for the airwrap recommendation Scarlet! I remember you ladies talking about it a while ago actually, so I've ordered it today! At least that's hopefully one less thing to worry about!

No brooking hard for Dream's poorly S, and Scarlet's DC. So unfair the amount of illness in your households! Universe - sort it out!!! My little A's temperature is back to normal, which is a relief. She looks so cute with her two teeny teeth! <PFB moment>

Ooooo Musical was out late! grin Up to anything fun?

DH cooked a yummy meal tonight with some of my favourite things including mulled wine, yay! Sadly he didn't think of date night himself, but having taken my suggestion on board he pulled it off well grin

Thanks for all the encouragement on the sleep issue, I'll be using all of your advice! Dream has perfectly described how I feel about the whole thing, it's actually a bit upsetting that I seem to be so disruptive to DD! Thanks for saying it's a phase though!

I'm off to maximise my night off! Sleep well one and all (especially all mini people!)

Biscuitsandtinsel Fri 30-Nov-12 06:28:56

Sorry to hear about all the poorly DCs! Glad A's temp is back down Scream but hope all other littlies recover soon!

Scarlet I have to disagree with you not being imaginative. Your namechange that you did recently (you know, where it all went a bit sideways! wink) was Ge-Ni-Us! smile

I still don't like the new smileys on the iPhone app. In particular I struggle to tell the difference between sad and hmm. And confused looks like it should be <no sleep>. Apologies as that will make no sense to laptopers!

We have rigid (ish) bedtimes here but always go up at the latest at 7 no matter what nap times have occurred or not occurred. I think it was pomme said 'I NEED an evening'! grin. I was just saying to DH last night it will be weird but one day they'll be grown up enough to stay up in the evening - we'll never get any peace! grin.

I am a little envy (is that envy? envy?) of how good you all are at putting them down awake and getting them to go to sleep. I still struggle with that (although ds2 does then sleep through the whole night once he is asleep so I'm not complaining too much! I don't know how to teach ds2 to do it though?

Scream glad A was good for your mum, hopefully this will get her into good habits? Ds1 would never sleep if I was in the room but ds2 likes me to hold his hands and will then go to sleep.

I've forgotten wheat else I've read....... blush

Biscuitsandtinsel Fri 30-Nov-12 06:31:02

Oh, weird, I said that confused looks like it should be 'no sleep' but put it in pointy brackets < no sleep > and it took that bit out of my post FFS. Stupid app.

<Why can't I do this?>

TooImmatureMincePies Fri 30-Nov-12 08:41:18

Biscuits, I am hopeless at putting M down awake! The instant she touches the cot she starts to howl. Reading all your advice, though, I'm wondering whether it's that she's overtired before bed, so she falls asleep at the boob every time. Maybe I should put her to bed when she's awake enough to come off chirpily. However, I have tried that in the past and she won't lie on her own chirping for long - she starts to howl for me to come back. Last night's attempt at putting her down awake but sleepy foundered because I was too scared I'd just wake her up entirely. At her second wake-up at 10.30 I had been asleep for an hour and was too sleepy myself to have the stamina to try anything new. Right, will attempt a strict bedtime of 7 o'clock whether she looks sleepy or not!

Scarlet and Dream, Brooking for rapid improvement in healths!

So, yesterday I called the doctor's at 9.07, it was engaged and after a few attempts I put them on Ringback. I left at HALF PAST ONE to go to Ikea and it still hadn't rung back. confused angry Am off to call them again and see what they say.

Stacks Fri 30-Nov-12 09:23:25

Just a quick post from me.

Too our doctor has the same appointment system (it used to be worse, 100% of appointments had to be made that way, not even appointments where the GP told you to come back could be booked in advance!) anyway, you have to be ready to call exactly when the line opens, and the callback system doesn't work, as it gets engaged again too quickly. I just sit and press redial for ages... Usually takes about 40m of redials to get through. It only takes a minute to make an appointment when someone gets through, so the redialling kinda has to be instant each time (don't wait a couple of minutes).

I've spent years fighting that bloody system, it's awful. Was put in place so they met a target for "patients seen on the day" but completely misses the target of seeing patients when they need to be seen! Also cuts down on missed appointments/no shows.

Don't get me started on the physio system.. The only way to see them is to be one of the first 4 people to turn up before 8:30am on a tues or thurs. No referrals/appointments possible angryangry

Saw MW yesterday. Baby still not engaged. They'll book an induction for 40+13 which will put me awfully close to Christmas with the 22nd. Another app in 2 weeks when I'll be 40+3 when she'll offer a sweep. Really hope baby comes sooner than that, I'd love a 12/12/12 baby.

I've managed to catch a cold sad I've not seen anyone in ages, so where did the pesky germ come from??

Hope poorly babies start to feel better soon, and they all miraculously sleep through tonight.

Should I update my app? Are there any good things about the new one?

Biscuitsandtinsel Fri 30-Nov-12 09:48:34

Hi Stacks

I've not found anything good about the new app! And apologies to anyone reading my posts not on the new app as they'll just seem like a load of nonsense moaning about stuff that isn't a problem on the mobile site, normal website or the old app.

Brooking No argument that mini stack will be here on 12 Dec - that would be a wicked DOB and easy to remember. I used to be fine with ds1''s DOB but now there are two i get kinda confused when I have to remember one of them!

We have a cleaner here this morning and I feel a bit of a spare part! Very awkward to be sitting around while she's working! I feel like I should be Doing Something Useful! But my job today is ironing (can't do with ds2 until he's asleep) and attempting to make a stollen. But I imagine that cake making is not going to be helpful for the cleaner! Once she's been a few times we're allowed to go out smile

Scarlet how is your school choosing going? We're still totally stuck between the two here confused