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November 2012 - babies are here at last

(1000 Posts)
StuntNun Thu 04-Oct-12 12:42:24

This is the post-natal club for graduates of the November 2012 intake.

StuntNun Thu 04-Oct-12 12:47:53
TheDetective Thu 04-Oct-12 22:11:40

See you in a month or so ladies ;) Eeeek!

LittleLolly Fri 05-Oct-12 09:55:35

Ohhh please let me sign in here very soon!!

YellowWellies Fri 05-Oct-12 11:02:05

I'd like to be on here in early November please - good luck to the new Mummies xxx

ShellyBobbs Fri 05-Oct-12 12:10:29

I'd like to be here exactly 2 weeks after having my WC jab. If I ever get it smile

ValiumQueen Sun 07-Oct-12 18:40:21

Like shelley says, but I have had my jag. Due for section 25/10, but may be too poorley to update for a day or three.

Catbag Tue 09-Oct-12 21:01:42

Any time now would be good grin

Evilwater Wed 10-Oct-12 23:10:19

Hello all.
Anyone else trying to get the hang of breast feeding?
And trying to get, Used to thier new born?

My son (day5) is still yellow but has but on 66 grams!

Evilwater Wed 10-Oct-12 23:25:26
TheDetective Wed 10-Oct-12 23:35:17

What problems are you having Evil? X

Evilwater Thu 11-Oct-12 00:21:05

He's chewing my nipples to death! and Bit them several times, and drawn blood.

My latch is good but he wriggles around, and then gets in the right place.

Evilwater Thu 11-Oct-12 00:24:06

*wrong place.
My poor nipples have been flattened and turned white on several occasions.

Evilwater Thu 11-Oct-12 04:28:09

DP and I have decided to pump my milk into a bottle.
So far these past five days i have hand expressed, pretty much all the feeds. All this pain, and frustration for me and my son isn't good. It upsets me, when he flings his head around, and his arms are waving. I do get a good latch but because he is so frustrated he wiggles, and pushes me away.


TiAAAAARGHo Thu 11-Oct-12 04:40:51

have you got a local La Leche that your could call?

StuntNun Thu 11-Oct-12 06:52:17

Evil has anyone suggested nipple shields? They would give your nipples a break but you could feed him without having to express. It will get easier, remember it's still early days yet.

Evilwater Thu 11-Oct-12 09:30:47

Stunt- only my DP thought about it. I've pumped four feeds now, and my son is more relaxed.

Does it really matter how the milk is delivered? As long as its the breast milk?

Iheartpasties Thu 11-Oct-12 09:44:03

I know someone who pumped and fed her LO for more than 6 months. I really doesnt matter how you do it Evil, however it can be a more effort to pump and sterilise etc etc. I used nipple shields sometimes but the HV advised against it. I did loads of pumping for about 4 months.

Go with whatever works best for you, it can be hard, so dont beat yourself up!!

YellowWellies Fri 12-Oct-12 10:28:00

Evil it sounds like you're doing amazingly. As you say - it doesn't matter whether it is delivered by bottle or breast - you are giving him the good stuff. Well done xxxx

YellowWellies Fri 12-Oct-12 11:45:53

Just a thought, has the health visitor checked to make sure Nick doesn't have a tongue or lip tie? My wee niece fussed and struggled to hold a good latch and it turned out to be that. The health visitor can get it sorted super quick - it's just a quick snip.

YellowWellies Fri 12-Oct-12 22:03:04

Also was it you who had to have forceps Evil hon? Was chatting to my sis and she suggested that if that was the case, forceps deliveries (and ventouse) can give them a head ache which makes the suckling from the breast very difficult for a week or so (whereas suckling from the bottle is less work and so hurts their sore heads less!). Keep trying xxx

Evilwater Sat 13-Oct-12 14:52:05

Yellow- he had a ventouse, It would explain a lot.


DonnaDoon Sun 14-Oct-12 04:58:03

Hello Evil Im here Congratulations to you on the birth of your son Nick, I had my little daughter on the 7th she was 6lb 9oz and I was 36+3. I am breastfeeding too this is my 4th child and I just wanted to say that it bloody hurts , Im 1 week in and my nipples are cracked and sore where she hasnt latched properly or just chewed whatever....but they do harden and then soften IYSWIM you and your son will be pros in no time....so what Im saying is hang on in there, this is when most probably chuck the towel in, but breast feeding is a hugely rewarding experience and worth the slog at first.....So well done you....God I dont know if that big ramble makes sense Im so tired....tired but blissfully happy smile

DonnaDoon Sun 14-Oct-12 05:01:58

PS Dont feel bad if you do decide to quit I did after 10 days for my first son and stuck it out longer for the 2nd and 3rd children ...do whats right and happy for you and yours.

Evilwater Sun 14-Oct-12 09:45:20

I'm pumping it into a bottle, we are finding it so much better. Nick and I less stressed, and he is taking loads more milk this way. My nipples are still healing after four days pumping.

I'm getting the medula pump on Monday, as I've pretty much knackered the one I have, plus I am going to get RSI.


Evilwater Sun 14-Oct-12 09:45:52

I'm also glad, there are more people here.

StuntNun Sun 14-Oct-12 11:18:02

Evil have you asked your health visitor whether there are any breastfeeding support groups or a breastfeeding specialist in your area? I'm glad things are going better for you, I had a tough time with my DS1 who never learned to latch on but I still managed to feed him (using nipple shields) so it was worthwhile but in hindsight I could have used some support because I was quite stressed about feeding him.

nebbo Sun 14-Oct-12 16:12:33

Hi girls.
I was an on/off visitor to the antenatal thread and just checked up today to see that babies are all being born! Congratulations and I hope you are enjoying your new bundles. We are also the otherwise of pregnancy with the beautiful Abigail and Isla being born on the 4th October. They are lovely and we can't believe they are ours!!

I see the breastfeeding issues that are being mentioned and can totally relate to the sore nipples! I was using a rubbish cream the first few days until a friend bought me lansinoh. I swear it has helped and I'm finding it so much easier now. The midwife today said that you can get it on prescription as it costs £10 otherwise.

I wish you all the best of luck as its certainly a new and scary road we've embarked on!! We can only do our best and not put any pressure on ourselves to do any more xxxxx

kissyfur Sun 14-Oct-12 16:21:26

evil I'd suggest taking little nick to see a cranial osteopath as the ventouse might have given him a bit of a headache. My dd had to be delivered by forceps (despite me having an EMCS! She was thoroughly wedged in!) and we took her to an osteopath at about 10 days old, think it definitely helped with her feeding. Also like others have said ask the HV to check for tongue tie, it's pretty common but easily fixed. Sounds like you are doing a great job so far smile

Hope you and your DD are doing well donna

kissyfur Sun 14-Oct-12 16:22:48

Oh and congratulations nebbo! smile hope you and your little girls are doing well

StuntNun Sun 14-Oct-12 17:47:09

Congratulations Nebbo I hope you're all keeping well. The first few weeks are hard work but I'm sure you'll have a routine in no time.

Cacacaz Mon 15-Oct-12 12:09:47

Congratulations Nebbo grin lovely news!

YellowWellies Mon 15-Oct-12 12:30:53

Aww Nebbo lovely to hear from you! Many congratulations on your lovely wee girls. I love their names and am glad they are bringing you so much joy. Lots of love to your family!

NervousAt20 Mon 15-Oct-12 12:44:14

Sounds like you are doing an amazing job so far evil do what works for you and your son

Congratulations nebbo 2 lovely girls, I'm sure you have your hands full grin

ValiumQueen Mon 15-Oct-12 13:26:09

Congratulations nebbo and welcome back. Good you can now get lanisoh on px. It is good for many other things too and I have spent a lot of money on it over the years.

evil so proud of you! Keep going and you will get there I am sure. You are doing really well to express. I am not looking forward to sore nipples again, and am already preparing them with the cream.

daisychain76 Mon 15-Oct-12 14:18:15

Congrats Nebbo lovely news. evil itt sounds likecyou are doing a fab job. Expressing is a pain but at least it means your Dh can do some feeds. l second what donna said about breast feeding ~ it does get easier and more rewarding. This time round ~3rd~ l am being a lot stricter with latching on ~ if it hurts he gets unlatched and has to root for it again!

How‘s everone doing sleepwise? I am sooo tired! Also a bit stressed, been home from hospital since Friday and no contact from a Mw. with him still being so tiny (4 pound 4 on Friday) l would quite like a visit for reassurance. Not sure if l‘ve slipped through the net or if its cos its not my first.

ShellyBobbs Mon 15-Oct-12 14:36:10

Daisy that is terrible that they've not visited you at home with him being a premmie!

Nebbo Congratulations!

Evil Glad you've found something that works for you, it makes all the difference smile

Donna That's a good weight (think I've already said that before though).

ValiumQueen Mon 15-Oct-12 14:38:28

daisy call them. They should see you daily, regardless what number baby it is for you. They are possibly frantically searching for you as by law they have to see you. 4lb 4 wow! Teeny tiny. I thought mine was small at 8lb 13.

YellowWellies Mon 15-Oct-12 17:42:17

Awww what a wee one. My sister was that weight when she was born and I was 4lb. Am a big fat heifer now so don't worry about his long term prospects weight wise. I second VQ give them a ring Daisy - he should be being checked very regularly. Mindst I seem to remember that when my sister finally got to take her premmie out of the NICU / SCBU - she didn't get visited by health visitors - though her daughter was over 3 months old at this point. But like yours she was a 4lber when allowed to go home and my sister very much wanted a HV. It might vary by PCT?

kirrinIsland Mon 15-Oct-12 18:02:13

Just marking my place and hoping to graduate here very soon!

Congrats to nebbo lovely names!

daisy agree with ^^ Call the hv, they should be seeing you surely?

MissMummy1 Mon 15-Oct-12 18:14:25

Hoping NOT to graduate here for at least another month!! Congrats to the lovely ladies here already. Nebbo fab names, especially Isla! (my name) I approve!! Glad you're all doing well xxx

daisychain76 Mon 15-Oct-12 20:29:27

Right, l will get on to the clinic tomorrow, thanks all, l thought may be l was being paranoid. Saying that, l am now panicking about the fact l didn‘t get the WC jab (tho l did have it as a baby, don‘t know if that gives similar immunity) and he has been breathed over by many small children at the DCs school today, not to mention quite a few adults. Oh dear, l was going to be so laid back this time round, but it just isn‘t happening!.

YellowWellies Mon 15-Oct-12 21:26:50

Daisy you are being laid back you're at home on MN not panicking in the car on the way to out of hours / A&E. That's going to be my definition of relaxed grin. He'll be fine btw xxxx

YellowWellies Mon 15-Oct-12 21:27:32

Sorry Daisy did I miss what your wee boy's name is? Apologies for awful baby brain but feel I can't keep calling him 'him' xxxx

Oh my word...am up early feeding my ladies and have to share...exactly 2 weeks after having my twins I am 3 stone lighter! I feel like a whole new person. I can put on my own socks and shoes and I can reach the floor again!

I am hoping that I can come back and read everyone's news soon.

TheDetective Tue 16-Oct-12 06:30:46



I'm tempted to buy a grabber to help get my socks on!

StuntNun Tue 16-Oct-12 06:37:28

That's brilliant Garden I must say I'm particularly looking forward to seeing my feet again! Is it nice to get out of the giant clown pants maternity clothes?

kirrinIsland Tue 16-Oct-12 09:15:41

Brilliant garden that must feel great smile

ShellyBobbs Tue 16-Oct-12 10:35:07

Ooooh touching the floor, I can if I spread my legs wide enough (like this morning putting out the recycling and dropping it everywhere) and my arse in the air!

YW He's called Huey.

Evilwater Tue 16-Oct-12 10:38:04

I'm sorry I havnt been on here a lot as I've been busy feeding.im looking forward to that two week mark, when its surposed to get easier.

However last night my boobs ran dry, using my new medula swing. I had to use formula (from tesco) at 430, why is it always 0430? He drank loads, I just hope my boobs can keep up.

Anyone got idears on increasing my milk supply?

As for the cranial doctor where would I find one?
Yes there feeding groups, but the closest one is in tesco cafe! Eek. Im sat here with the curtains drawn on my medula.

Hi all new arrivals!

ShellyBobbs Tue 16-Oct-12 10:43:33

Just keep milking, your supply adjusts to the amount you milk; it really is hard work. Also you will be coming up to the 3 week growth spurt where little Nick will seem constantly hungry, don't fret, it's quite normal but where a lot of mums give up (I nearly did with my first, thank goodness for a very nice health visitor). Don't forget to drink plenty of water yourself.

Seems like we are all set to the 4am club then, at least we all have very good membership.

Sorry, can't help with the doctor.

Lovely to read your updates grin

Evilwater Tue 16-Oct-12 10:48:51

Thanks shelly,
Evil .

daisychain76 Tue 16-Oct-12 11:16:36

Evil there are also some tablets you can get on prescription to help with supply ~ several mums on nicu got them cos they found it hard to keep supply up when exprezsing. l am sure your mw/hv will k.ow the name.

garden l am jealous. l am in that horrivle inbetween bit where matsdnity clothes look wrong but normal clothes don‘t fit.

yw l probably would be that mum on the way to a+e a lot but l don‘t drive and Dh (who does) is a lot saner! smile

I am told l‘ll ‘probably‘ get a mw visit today....

ShellyBobbs Tue 16-Oct-12 11:31:55

Phone them up later if not and tell them 'probably' isn't good enough. It's like you've been dumped off their system now you're home, it's disgraceful!

StuntNun Tue 16-Oct-12 12:28:19

Evil are you expressing where you can see Nick? I found my boobs wouldn't let down if I couldn't see my baby, even a photo can do it, and it works even better if they're crying. I would suggest you look at/start a separate thread as a lot of women express all the time and would have good advice on how often to express, technique and natural remedies/medications to try. There's also the Kellymom website and La Leche League where you can get advice.

Definitely get help though, I had problems with supply with DS1 and ended up supplementing with formula for one feed a day but I probably could have built up my supply by expressing if only I had known what to do.

That said, there's nothing wrong with combining breastmilk and formula and that works for a lot of women.

ShellyBobbs Tue 16-Oct-12 12:40:43

The only way I could manage to express with all 3 of mine (and I had TONS of milk, just couldn't get it out) was having baby feed on one boob and using the hand pump on the other at the same time. I used to get 2oz at a time doing that.

ValiumQueen Tue 16-Oct-12 12:45:02

I used to express both before and after baby fed. My boobs would be like shaken coke bottles, so I had to take a bit off otherwise the poor little scrap used to get blown off and choke on the milk. I also used to express after them feeding on both boobs so as to stimulate them more. They would get the days extractions in the evening when most fractious.

ShellyBobbs Tue 16-Oct-12 13:18:29

I once hit my hubby on the other side of the bathroom by squirting milk at him. It was a very long bathroom too grin

YellowWellies Tue 16-Oct-12 13:20:13

All of these expressing tips are so helpful ladies - thanks mucho!

ShellyBobbs Tue 16-Oct-12 13:50:38

The bathroom one is not to be advised unless said hubby is holding out a bottle to aim into.

daisychain76 Tue 16-Oct-12 14:10:04

Lol shelly. Well, finally had a MW visit. We basically were off the system ~ they‘d not been told we were discharged and had no notes on us. MW then proceeded to nearly let him roll off her lap when getting him undressed to weigh, asked me if l watched Downton Abbey as that had someone who‘d died of pre~eclampsia, then wrote his weight down wrong! Main thing is though that he is putting on weight and doing fine.

ShellyBobbs Tue 16-Oct-12 14:25:18

How reassuring for you! What does he weigh now, it's good he's doing well.

DonnaDoon Tue 16-Oct-12 14:32:24

Congratulations Nebbo thanks ... Evil I second what everyone else has said about milk supply...the more you feed the more you make...Darcey is being fed every 2 hours approx I wake her in the night because she was so early I want to keep her topped up and putting on weight.

daisychain76 Tue 16-Oct-12 14:33:03

4 pound 6 and a bit now. Figure l have an excuse to eat chocolate and try and pass the calories on smile

DonnaDoon Tue 16-Oct-12 14:35:27

Hi Daisy glad to hear your little man is putting on weight...do you wake him in the night too? Me thinks Im making a rod for my own back but she went down to 5lb12oz in hospital and was jaundiced so I am just obsessed with feed feed feeding her to build her up big and strong IYSWIM

daisychain76 Tue 16-Oct-12 14:56:03

Thanks Donnawhen he was tube fed in hospital with expressed milk he was fed every 4 hours so l don‘t let him go longer than that. He usually wakes every 2 or 3 hours anyway. l know what you mean ~ l am so tempted to feed him every time he stirs but the fact the nurses thought 4 hours was ok has reassured me a bit.

rowingdowntheriver Tue 16-Oct-12 14:57:09

Just thought I'd pop over to say hi to those of you on the other side! Hope you are all well and coping with the night feeds?

evil, I thought I'd mention fenugreek tablets to you as that is what I was recommended when I was struggling with my milk supply with DS. It did seem to help so might be worth trying. Otherwise very regular feeding and expressing (literally every hour or two) works.

I agree wit stuntnun though that combined feeding is fine if it works for you. It is what I ended up doing with DS and will probably do the same with the next one. Whatever you end up doing, please don't beat yourself up - breast milk is not the be all and end all and I think it is so much more important to have a mother that is as happy as is possible (given the lack of sleep and shock of looking after a new born!)

kissyfur Tue 16-Oct-12 15:43:16

evil for a cranial osteopath I would contact the Osteopathic Centre for Children (OCC) occ.uk.com/ who should be able to recommend someone in your area

ShellyBobbs Tue 16-Oct-12 17:09:22

Not an excuse Daisy, a necessity! I was just telling the others on the other thread that I phoned up this morning about all my homebirth stuff, pool etc. and saying that nothing had been arranged yet. I've just had it delivered, can't believe that this service is from the same hospital you are having trouble from.

TheDetective Tue 16-Oct-12 17:17:11

I found expressing in the bath helped supply.... and definitely having the baby in site, or a blanket or picture of baby if not!

The more relaxed and focused on baby, the more production seems to increase!

I'd also say if you think your supply is decreasing, increase the frequency of pumping for the stimulation alone, even if minimal, or no production.

It is stimulation what will increase supply.

TheDetective Tue 16-Oct-12 17:17:29

*Sight, not site!!

ShellyBobbs Tue 16-Oct-12 17:39:14

Oh yes, the bath - I felt like Cleopatra some nights grin

StuntNun Tue 16-Oct-12 19:01:41

The new ante-natal thread is here http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/antenatal_clubs/1584066-November-2012-babies-arriving-early-and-impatient-mummies-to-be if you're following both threads and want to mark your place.

StuntNun Tue 16-Oct-12 19:01:51
StuntNun Tue 16-Oct-12 19:02:39
Evilwater Tue 16-Oct-12 19:29:26

Thanks ladies for all your advice.

nebbo Tue 16-Oct-12 22:46:43

Thanks for all the congratulations messages.
I hope the feeding issues are starting to resolve. Our girls weighed 4lb11 and 4lb14 at birth then both dropped to 4lb7 and didn't go up by day 10. I was breastfeeding then doing a formula top up then expressing so I could increase my supply and give some breast top ups!! What a load of work I was making for myself! I couldn't do it alone so my husband had to help every feed which was 3 hourly!! I did find however that by feeding then expressing, my milk supply increased dramatically. However I was also put on don peridone by the doctor as I've had terrible nausea and loss of appetite and that drug also increases supply. I'm now trying to breast feed fully with one bottle feed before bed so my husband can do that and I can catch up sleep to do the night feeds. We are still in the trial stages but I don't want to give up the breast yet as the thought of sterilising, making and warning feeds etc for 2 babies sounds like a lot more work than sticking one on each boob and letting them feed. I do feel that the dramas of bringing up babies may have only just begun!! They weren't lying when they said its hard work!!!

StuntNun Tue 16-Oct-12 22:53:00

You're doing brilliantly Nebbo, it's bound to be hard work with twins but I'm sure in a week or two everything will be going smoothly and you won't look back.

NervousAt20 Tue 16-Oct-12 23:27:18

Marking place, I should be a graduate Friday!!

GTbaby Wed 17-Oct-12 01:43:53

Oh gosh. In hospital ward. Looking at little gt unable to sleep.

Birth experience was crazy. Parts of it I hated. Parts of it I thought were ok.

As I was induced on Sunday. I had a pessery put in. First experience of an internal exam. N I didn't react well at all. Sobbing n screaming come to mind.
N am quite surprised at how uncomfortable the Pessary was considering it was a think piece of string.
24 hours later was taken out n another internal, again screaming sobbing asking her to stop. Agony sad.
I was 3cm dilated so moved me to labour ward.
Monday 4pm in labour ward n told just about 3cm wud break waters which gad to be done by a DR as head is to high. Ps another internal with gas n air. Made no difference! Still screaming. blush. Me a wuss? Never!

Anyway asked for epidural before the water breaking! This was crazy. The dr tried putting it in like 10 times! In different spots on my spine n it just didn't work. I was starting to panic thinking about waters being broken n the pain. Not nice at all. In the end he got someone else in to do it. Thank goodness he asked for help!

Which came at 2.30am Tuesday. So a lot of waiting around! 3ish waters broken n given a hormone drip. This internal was so much better! I could feel exactly what was going on. But wasn't painful at all.
I was told contractions started at 8am grin. I was examined at 12 noon. N told dilated to 10cm. They waited untill 1 to get me pushing as babies head was quite high still.
At 2.02 baby gt was born grin. A little help with a suction device. A few stitches. Loads of blood lol. It really does feel like ur doing a poo! I was so worried I might do one. I hope I didn't blush I don't even know if I did! blush.
But was glad I cud feel the contractions but no pain as mw missed a few n I told her I needed to push.

So the labour itself was ok really. Just the examinations n epidural stress which distressed me.

Right. I need to sleep. Well try to. Babies keep crying on the ward!

Iheartpasties Wed 17-Oct-12 02:49:52

gt so happy that your LO is here! Lovely to hear your birth story, everyone has a different one and it takes a while for it to feel real. Talk about it (type about it) as much as you want, or as little as you want! It can help to get it all out, and other times sharing it once or not at all is fine too!!!! congrats to you and your dh.

Iheartpasties Wed 17-Oct-12 03:04:33

nebbo you are doing fantastically!! well done.

Well done all around to everyone!!

donna my dd was jaundice so i used to wake her for feeds! so dont worry about making a rod 4 your back, as she put on weight and shrugged off the jaundice she soon woke for feeds by herself but also we all got more sleep as she could go for longer without feeding.

Thechick Wed 17-Oct-12 08:40:56

Hello all. I'm just saying hi. Had my little on 7th Oct, 6 weeks early. Keep meaning to put my birth story on here. Will try and do it today. Little one still in scbu, hopefully will be out by the weekend. Going to the hospital everyday and pumping every three hours is exhausting. I just want my little one home.

ShellyBobbs Wed 17-Oct-12 09:27:16

GT congratulations! We were all thinking of you yesterday saying 'she must have had him by now' grin Glad everything went well and hope you get home soon x

Chick Think I've already congratulated you, but just in case, congratulations grin. Fingers crossed for weekend.

StuntNun Wed 17-Oct-12 09:32:05

Congratulations Chick I think I missed the BA. What name did you decide on in the end?

YellowWellies Wed 17-Oct-12 10:37:43

Congrats GT I bet you're glad that's over!!!

Keep perservering with the BFing and have a few words with your MW (get your DH to step in) - so much for the NHS being breastapo - all of the stories from south seem to be the opposite i.e. lots of MWs not being bothered to help with BFing as it's more fuss for them. Grrrr.....

PetiteRaleuse Wed 17-Oct-12 11:19:29

Congratulations to all of you already here. I'm marking my place as my elcs has been brought forward to Friday. See you soon smile

YellowWellies Wed 17-Oct-12 11:27:43

good luck petite!!!

daisychain76 Wed 17-Oct-12 12:19:17

Good luck petit and nervous. Congrats Gt l bet you will be glad to be home. thechick l totally sympathise ~ we had 18days of that and it is exhausting. Hope your LO is out soon. nebb it sounds like you are doing great. Shelly it is the only hospital l have any experience of but, ddespite some mix ups and feeling they are probably under staffed, overall l do think they have been good and feel very grateful to them.

DonnaDoon Thu 18-Oct-12 10:36:19

Congratulations GT Good luck Petite and Nervous Bit miffed about dds weight here she was born 6lb9oz and went down to 5lb12oz which is a lot to lose but she was born at 36wks3days and sleepy and it took 4 days for my boobs to fill up I am exclusive breast feeding I did top her up in hospital with formula on the advice of midwives but she sicked it up....anyway despite feeding loads she was only 6lb1oz yesterday on day 10 so midwife cant discharge us...she is coming back next week to weigh her again but I feel pressured now to feed even more or offer formula again when I think she is doing well at her own pace...my dh says not to worry as all babies are different and not all regain their birth weight in 10 days and I agree with him but still...sad

Evilwater Thu 18-Oct-12 10:46:49

Congrats to you all,
Yesterday I was surposed to have a relaxing day with plenty of sleep. Instead nick decided to vomit up most of his feed all night and most of the morning. sad

Phoned the midwife everything ok. It stressed us both out. I'm hoping to have a shower today, as well as plenty of rest.
I also have to fill out the child benift form today as tomorrow were off to registar him.

ShellyBobbs Thu 18-Oct-12 11:51:38

Donna Go with your gut instinct! My first was exactly the same, she took weeks to get back to her birth weight as she was breastfed but also sicked that up every feed, it was a long hard slog, the only thing was that I was at home so didn't feel the pressure much. Another thing to think about is that the charts they (used to, not sure if it's the same now) use for weight are based on formula fed babies who put on weight more quickly and ARE NOT suitable for breastfed babies to be compared to.

The facts are your baby is happy and content and is putting on weight. Listen to your hubby, listen to your instinct and tell anyone who tries to free up the bed quicker push you into formula feeding to take a running jump. Come on here for support if you feel like you need it.

ShellyBobbs Thu 18-Oct-12 11:53:09

Also Donna my first was 6lb 8oz and was 2 weeks OVERDUE! So she's a very good weight as it is.

Iheartpasties Thu 18-Oct-12 11:57:11

evil i think everything seems so hard when it happens in the middle of the night! Babies seem to time it perfectly to wind us up to the max! Stay strong smile

StuntNun Thu 18-Oct-12 11:57:20

It's a shame you're under pressure Donna. Sometimes midwives/health visitors get too bound up by what they think your baby 'should' be doing and don't pay enough attention to the big picture. If you're managing to feed her and she's gaining weight steadily and is healthy that everything else is just numbers. Babies come in all shapes and sizes and grow at different rates, you can't just look at a chart and say what should be although it would be nice if you could. Also in my (admittedly limited) experience babies then to grow in spurts so you'll probably find she puts on an ounce here, an ounce there then suddenly eight ounces in one go. If they try and mess with you again send them to me and I'll put them right!

ValiumQueen Thu 18-Oct-12 12:09:43

You are doing great as you are donna just carry on and she will get there. Besides, she told you she was not impressed with the formula!

daisychain76 Thu 18-Oct-12 12:53:29

Hope you are having a more restful day evil. I am glad you mentioned registering ~ reminded me to make an appointment.

donna l think there has been a lot of wise advice given already. She is puttiing on weight and feeding regularly, its just that she‘s doing it at her own pace.

eldest Ds was sick 5 times last night after spending the evening kissing/holding LO so just keeping fingers crossed now that its not something horribly catching

DonnaDoon Thu 18-Oct-12 13:37:31

Oh Thankyou for all your support...I love you ladies x

YellowWellies Fri 19-Oct-12 14:06:30

Donna it sounds like you've got the BFing cracked - keep going! Also, bear in mind that some health care professionals have their own personal agendas - when my sis was expressing milk for her premmie she got a lot of sniffy 'why don't you just put her on formula' from the nursing staff who had clearly bottlefed their own babies and seemed to feel the right to put her down for wanting to breastfeed. I don't know if they felt insecure in their own choices and threatened by how well she was doing but it really wasn't helpful. even if she did fill up the unit fridge with her expressed milk and produced such a surplus she gave it to a milk bank for other prems She was definitely viewed as being a weird posh bird for not wanting to reach for the Aptimil.

Evilwater Fri 19-Oct-12 17:01:50

Donna- your doing amazing. Well done.

Just back from the midwife, and nick now weighs 6,6. I'm now discharged from the midwife and on to the health vistor. I must registar him with the GP on Monday.

Hearing test done today, all fine. Also I opened his saving account, with his birth certificate. Yay.


daisychain76 Fri 19-Oct-12 18:21:41

Glad to hear it‘s all going well Evil. YW its terrible some staff had that attitude. l actually think expressing makes you feel at least you are doing sonetging for your baby when tbey‘re in NICU (as well as the health benefits, etc).as its a time there are so many “normal“ things you can‘t do for them. l was super proud of my freezer shelf full of expressed bottles despite normally avoiding it and as we bought 2 bags full home it means DH can do a feed a day smile

YellowWellies Fri 19-Oct-12 18:52:32

Yey for another "freezer filler" well done Daisy!!!! smile

ValiumQueen Fri 19-Oct-12 18:58:01

daisy very impressive to have a supply in the freezer already!

Evilwater Fri 19-Oct-12 19:00:44

Daisy- wow. I'd love to build up that much!

ValiumQueen Fri 19-Oct-12 19:09:49

evil do not be in too much of a hurry to put supplies away in freezer. Baby needs every drop in his tum tum at the moment. I am guessing daisy produced most of that while baby was in NICU, and was excess to requirements at the time. I used to express an ounce at the beginning and then as much as I could at the end of a feed, once the first couple of weeks were past, and then gave the days 'takings' in a bottle via daddy early evening when they were fractious. Once the cluster feeding was past, I was able to put a bottle away each day, and it soon mounts up.

daisychain76 Fri 19-Oct-12 20:37:23

VQ is right Evil. It was all from NICU and built up cos for 1st week he was mainly on some sort of glucose (I think) solution. Haven‘t expressed at all since he came home ~ going to try again next week .

Random question, but do others change their baby‘s nappy each time they wake for a feed? I have been doing, but wonder if l should cut it down to times he‘s pooed. He‘s 4 weeks on Monday.

StuntNun Fri 19-Oct-12 20:55:22

Daisy if you're using disposable nappies they can absorb quite a lot before baby will get a wet botty so you may be able to change less often, just see how it goes and keep an eye out for any irritation. I'm not sure about reusables though.

ShellyBobbs Fri 19-Oct-12 21:09:52

Daisy Changing my little ones is close to paranoia with me, I used to do it strictly every 3 hours or sooner if pooey. That was with disposables. A lot of the time I was just swapping one dry nappy for another, but I couldn't go over 3 hours no matter what.

ValiumQueen Fri 19-Oct-12 21:31:37

With reusables, I change each time, as it is a joy with reusables grin. With disposables I would only change when there is a poo, or if nappy is very wet obviously.

ShellyBobbs Fri 19-Oct-12 21:32:30

See I'm just too lazy for reusables grin

Evilwater Sat 20-Oct-12 09:43:21

I'm using disposables, but I have to change them every 3-4 hours as baby evil produces very wet nappies.


ShellyBobbs Sat 20-Oct-12 12:42:49

Which is good grin

GTbaby Sat 20-Oct-12 12:54:33

Hello all.

Really feeling shit about the breast feeding. Sat for 20 mins yesterday. Him sucking n getting very little. I squeez n takes a while to get one drop out. After sucking so long felt very sore. N that's just on one boob. Other nipple sometimes gets moist but no droplets of milk.

MW dropped in yesterday n felt really let down by her to. I was quite teary when she asked about feeding. She checked my breast n confirmed I don't have much milk. Suggested a feeding position. N said keep trying. But I need more help. I need proper advice or tips. When to try. How long for. How can I increase my supply so he finds it easier. I got a pump, just sterilised it now. But now what?

I keep meaning to post a new thread but been so busy sad. Going to aim to do that today.

Sry for the negativity. Other then feeding I'm loving being a mum. Looking at him just makes me so happy! He pulls the cutest faces. N he has a gorgeous little pout. grin. Hardest BUT best 5 days ever so far x

ValiumQueen Sat 20-Oct-12 13:44:38

GT has your milk come in yet? Have you had the whole boobs like melons and sore thing? If not your milk has yet to come in. Baby should be on your boob pretty much all the time in the first few days as it is him sucking that tells your body to produce milk. Make sure he is on the boob at least once every 3 hours. Is he screaming hungry or is he sleeping and happy inbetween? If you have little milk, pumping can help stimulate it, but the best thing is any milk coming out needs to go into him, and a lot can be lost in the pump. I am sorry your MW is not much help. Do you have any friends or family who have bf in the past?

I recommend going on the feeding threads as there are some real experts on there. Also the odd bit of formula may help you get through this if he is obviously distressed and hungry. Remember though, before the milk comes in, the colostrum is mega high calories, even though it is in tiny amounts. Make sure you eat well and drink plenty of water, and get as much sleep as you can.

YellowWellies Sat 20-Oct-12 14:44:09

I don't believe you can miss the feeling of your 'milk coming in' GT so if you've not had the sensation VQ describes yet - don't despair. Just plonk him on your boob and think of his suckling (even if he's not getting much milk) to be him 'writing a note to the milkman'. He needs to be on your boob to stimulate production and to encourage your milk to come in.

Have you been on line and found the La Leche league - they will have local outreach workers who can call you or pop in to visit. They are meant to be amazing - so don't despair if you don't have family who can help.

ValiumQueen Sat 20-Oct-12 15:41:10

Nice way of putting it YW grin. You will not miss that feeling as you will want to pop them to relieve the pressure!

Catbag Sat 20-Oct-12 16:48:58

Hi all- will pop back later on to fill you all in properly but have about 60000 pages to read before I'm up to date sooooooo......

I HAZ BABIES! River and Saul, born on Tuesday afternoon by emergency c-section ( sad ) - River was 6lbs 5oz and Saul 5lbs 6oz. Both babies beautiful but will upload pic to FB so you can see for yourself :D

Back later grin

Passmethecrisps Sat 20-Oct-12 17:09:09

Omg catbag hooray to baybeez!

GT I am sorry things with feeding aren't going so well. I hope you get the support you need.

Hello to all the other graduates!

ValiumQueen Sat 20-Oct-12 17:11:30

Oh cat congratulations!! (about bloody time too)

Awesomely cool names! The coolest of names! <<considers thieving at least one name>>

So chuffed for you!!!

kissyfur Sat 20-Oct-12 17:23:13

Congrats catbag! Love the names, look forward to hearing more when you have time to post thanks

Sorry to hear the breastfeeding isn't going well GT like the others say kept putting baby to the breast and that will build up your supply smile

DonnaDoon Sat 20-Oct-12 17:42:41

Congratulations Catbag thanks again very cool names and Congratulations GT thanks breastfeeding is so hard at first I still have my shall I quit days on day 13 now

MissMummy1 Sat 20-Oct-12 17:46:21

N'awww lovely news cat ! Great names and can't wait to see some pics when you've had a chance to catch up!! (Ignore all my irrelevant rants on the other thread about my male muppet wanting a new car, I fear the next 5 - 7 weeks will drag for me --and anyone who's still left and has to put up with my hormones!--)

GT no advice, sorry. Hope it all gets a little easier. There's lots of lovely, more informed ladies on here who I'm sure will be able to offer lots more help! xx

Evilwater Sat 20-Oct-12 17:57:52

GT-here is a useful website I found about pumping.


Have you tryed breast compressions? Breast massage before feeding?

I have to do both to get a good amount off, and express/pump for ages!! To get a good supply. Sorry about the spelling

YellowWellies Sat 20-Oct-12 17:59:37

Awwwwwwwcat gorgeous gorgeous names. I love the fact that they are mirror weights of each other too! Are their personalities which seemed to be very different in utero (she was a climbing active beasty and he was just chilled out wasn't he?) as pronounced now they are out? I can't wait to see a photo. I love TWINS!!!! Well done you xxx

kirrinIsland Sat 20-Oct-12 18:02:52

Congratulations catbag grin Lovely names.

GT I rang la leech league when DD went on a nursing strike and they were really good. I just dealt with them over the phone but you can meet someone face to face. Also, are there any sure start childrens centres near you, cos they often have breast feeding groups, with peer supporters on hand to give advice. I did that too, and they are good for just meeting people and getting out of the house as well as the support.

Congrats cat smile Awesome names and great weights for twins. Can't wait to see a pic xx

StuntNun Sat 20-Oct-12 18:10:41

Congratulations Catbag, I love the names you have chosen too.

Sorry to hear you're struggling GT. There is loads on info on the Internet and baby websites. All I can say is please perservere as once you get past these early difficulties bfing is soooo convenient. I'm sure I mentioned that I had real problems with DS1 and could never get him to latch, DS2 was tricky at first but got there in the end. But I still wouldn't consider any other method of feeding this new baby, nothing but breast milk (and Calpol!) will pass his lips for the first few months.

SwissArmyWife Sat 20-Oct-12 18:33:32

Just a quick congrats to catbag , little and nervous , hope everything is well for all of you and can't wait to see some pics! thanks

Not long to go now for the rest of us... 20 days until my due date!!

Evilwater Sat 20-Oct-12 18:35:20

Congrats catbag.

GTbaby Sat 20-Oct-12 18:56:18

Woohoo cat! Our babies have same birthday. grin

Managed to expresssmile today. Got just over half a Tommy tippee cup full!
Got him sucking for about 10mins today before hand. Then when he had tried 10mins of sucking gave him his formula n then expressed what I could. Still most of it came from left boob. If I got same from right could get a cup full. So glad there is milk there. As the few drops I saw yesterday made me think I had nothing. Will be doing alot more on the boob time tomorrow. N will look at all links u have suggested. Feel a lil happier about it now.

Ps I don't think my milk has come in yet. No melon feeling blush

My iron is low. Would that effect it?

blonderthanred Sat 20-Oct-12 19:00:00

Congratulations Cat, beautiful names.

Sophiathesnowfairy Sat 20-Oct-12 19:19:16

Wow catbag those names are brill. Many congrats.


Evilwater Sat 20-Oct-12 19:29:55

GT- congrats! [Grin] I've been expressing for two weeks and I've only manged to get 100ml from both breasts. envy

I can't believe it, my sister told me to rest, then she moaned yesterday that I hadn't seen my mom, BTW she has had a really bad cold. I saw her today as she is now well.
My sister phoned me up, and told me how great mum felt when I came over. She told me in her, I'm talking to a child tone. Grr.......

kissyfur Sat 20-Oct-12 19:40:25

Yes GT low iron will affect your milk supply. Have u got iron tablets? If so take those and eat lots of dried apricots to help with the constipation they can cause!

GTbaby Sat 20-Oct-12 20:12:14

Yes I have iron tablets, they didn't have them ready for when I left hospital. DH went and got them now.

We need to start thinking about names now. We have had the letter H given at temple. Crazy how name is not on my mind more! I keep forgetting my baby has no name.

daisychain76 Sat 20-Oct-12 20:50:07

Congratulations Cat. Another fan of those names here!

GT it sounds like you are doing great. Also, your milk may not come in all at once - mine seemed to do so more gradually this time. l also had one side seeming to work better than the other, but l kept alternating feeding and expressing on both and it evened itself out in the end.

daisychain76 Sat 20-Oct-12 21:50:57

Meant to say thanks for the advice re nappy changing. l think l will keep doing it each time l feed for another week or si then cut down at night. l am using disposables at the moment cos the newborn reusables l have would fit about 3 of him in (he is still very skinny)

YellowWellies Sat 20-Oct-12 22:32:56

Haha GT that must be a bit difficult to be given a letter to pick a name from! Good luck. Can't wait to hear the wee man's name xx

Iheartpasties Sat 20-Oct-12 23:55:51

GT the longer you can get your baby to suckle the better, I can remember epic two hour session with my dd, it all helps the stimulation of the boobs and then more milk is preduced. Whap him on the boob as often and for as long as you can manage!

catbag congrats!!!

ShellyBobbs Sun 21-Oct-12 04:48:25

Wooohooooo, congratulations CAT at last! I bet you are so relieved!

Love the names too grin

GTbaby Sun 21-Oct-12 10:38:31

Anyone else tempted to look "down below". blush I am but scared ill b scared for life!

StuntNun Sun 21-Oct-12 11:59:27

Don't look GT! Everything has stretched and it will all go back to normal. I terrified myself by having a quick look at my stitches after DS2. I knew the stitches would look sore but I wasn't prepared for the umm... enlargement of the opening.

NervousAt20 Mon 22-Oct-12 05:08:26

Just to update this thread too, Friday I had a beautiful baby girl by c section, were both doing really well and getting on well with breastfeeding touches wood she is absolutly tiny bless her

Congratulations catbag

gt I hope you can get some good support with breast feeding soon it is such hard work and we need alot of support and direction with it

blonderthanred Mon 22-Oct-12 06:15:05

Congratulations Nervous! Fantastic news.

StuntNun Mon 22-Oct-12 07:34:01

The latest ante-natal thread is here www.mumsnet.com/Talk/antenatal_clubs/1593492-November-2012-babies-arriving-thick-and-fast if you're following both and want to mark your place.

GTbaby Mon 22-Oct-12 10:14:26

nervous congrats!

Ain't it great being a mum! Laying in bed last night I couldn't help but just stare at him, had to fight to stay awake to look ( spesh after reading the climate change conv on the ante thread!) I love kissing him n looking at how he pouts his lips. grin
I'm so in love its disgusting lol.

ShellyBobbs Mon 22-Oct-12 10:57:07

Nervous Congratulations! grin

Catbag Mon 22-Oct-12 11:57:50

Thanks for all the congratulations ladies. I'm so happy I could pop.

GT obviously a good day for the having of perfect babies grin

PetiteRaleuse Mon 22-Oct-12 13:31:02

Just to update DD2 arrived by ELCS on Friday. Got home today. DD1 being a little difficult but all is good.

ValiumQueen Mon 22-Oct-12 14:29:33

petite congratulations. DD1 will get used to it. Make sure you do not try to be everything to everyone. It will not hurt either one to wait a few minutes or cry a bit. I remember that being the hardest thing.

PetiteRaleuse Mon 22-Oct-12 15:51:58

Thanks for that advice. She's ignoring me at the moment, but she'll get there. It must be quite a shock after all.

NervousAt20 Mon 22-Oct-12 16:39:49

Congratulations petite our babies havbthe same birthday grin

It is amazing GT people say you feel this whole new love and they are completely right. I look at her and just melt <soppy>

Oh anyone feeling really really emotional?

GTbaby Mon 22-Oct-12 16:50:39

Congrats petit I'm sure dd1 will come around.

We r a very close family. N pil have 6 grandchildren. The youngest was a little upset a few weeks ago as soon he wouldn't be the baby anymore n was being teased about it , he is 5. But I played up the big brother part with him. N I asked him what he was going to teach his little brother, he said "how to behave" lol.

On another note. I had success with breast feeding today grin the mw who visited today was so good. She spoke to me about what happened in hospital. (Mw basically said its only colostrum, my nipples r to flat, to give formula) she was so supportive. Little one was asleep so she talked technique n position thro with me using a eyore plush toy lol. Then after the heel test he woke up n she helped me latch on. N after much wriggling he stated there. She reassured me when he was resting as I thought he was falling asleep. It didn't feel like he drank alot, but 2 hours on he is still asleep n happy. grin

He has jaundice so need to feed him every 3 hours n keep him in the light.

Funny how a good mw can mk such a massive difference.

MissMummy1 Mon 22-Oct-12 18:23:14

Congrats petite! Does she have a name yet? I'm sure dd1 will come round. I'm dreading not-so-darling niece coming to stay with us for a few days on Saturday. She's 7, been spoilt rotten by PIL her whole life and has already started moaning she doesn't want our baby to be the favourite!! precocious brat. Her and our other niece (5) are treated exactly the same but younger one is much more laid back, niece 1 clearly doesn't see her as a threat.

Glad things are getting easier GT !

NervousAt20 Tue 23-Oct-12 02:00:19

Glad things are getting better for you GT the MW that you get really does make such a difference. Have they given you any website addresses or phone numbers that you can use fm to call for help/info/support ect? I have some I'm sure that I can find for you if you like?

Just got LO settled, she is such a night owl but now I don't want to out her back down because I'm sure shell wake and take she's to settle again

PetiteRaleuse Tue 23-Oct-12 08:43:31

Thanks to all. I'm giving bf'ing a second chance though supplementing a liitle bit on the paediatrician's orders - 'too much' initial weight loss and slight jaundice. I have ti back next week and have her checked. Over here we don't have hv or visits from mw so we just play it by ear.

Anyone else having a bit of the baby blues? I'm ok most of the time, and am much better since being out of hospital, but getting annoyed very easily and in so much pain from the section - for medical reasons can only have a child's dose of paracetamol which is Not Enough...

The section itself was lovely though - so much nicer than last year's emergency section smile

Are we due any more this week?

kissyfur Tue 23-Oct-12 09:34:35

Congrats petit! Sorry to hear you are feeling lots of pain, and only able to have paracetamol! sad a friend of mine told me about these belt things you can get for after a c section that you can put heat or cool packs in, maybe that might help you? here is one..www.lafeenoire.com/caesarian-belt--to-sooth-and-protect-after-c-section-delivery-4376-p.asp

ValiumQueen Tue 23-Oct-12 09:55:47

I recommend a belt too, but did not like heat on my wound. Rotten about PCM dose petite can they not give you another tablet or suppository as it is more effective up yer bum. An elective is so much nicer than an emergency. Glad it was a positive experience for you.

YW has had her baby but no details yet. blonder is being induced today, and I have my section Thursday, so hopefully at least three this week. Reception is awful at the hospital so do not worry if you do not hear from me for a few days.

TheDetective Tue 23-Oct-12 10:06:02

My baby will arrive on sunday. It will. I'm telling you.


ShellyBobbs Tue 23-Oct-12 12:19:34

Congratulations Petite grin

GTbaby Tue 23-Oct-12 13:35:09

Nervous I have some websites. Been googling alot. Just find it hard to feed off rite boob. So for the moment feed off left boob during day n expressing off rite to top up. I won't give up. I keep thinking this is to much. at night use formula as its to much for me. N im also a lil cautious because of jaundice n him not drink enough from me.

Petit pls don't give up on breast feeding i know it's hard I'm finding it very emotionally draining. Very "what's wrong with me" baby blues is deff here. But I'm trying to think of it as "my son needs me to be strong for him"

On a lighter note. How on earth do ppl do other stuff when breast feeding! Reading some stuf online, suggestions include reading, eating, drinking cutting babies nails, cleaning ears n nose . HOW do ppl multitask n breast feed. I'm thinking I could do with extra hands just to cope with the feeding part to hold his hands out of the way n to adjust pillows while I have my one hand on boob n other holding him in the right direction. grin tips needed lol

daisychain76 Tue 23-Oct-12 14:38:39

Congrats petit and nervous. Sorry you are in pain petit. I had anti inflamatories with paracetamol, which seemed to help. . My LO was 4 weeks old yesterday and now weighs 4 pound 10. Still fairly tiny! My friend has just given me 3 incredibly cute reusable nappies that should fit him, they are so lovely, can‘t wait to try them.

gt l used to be pretty good at reading a book and feeding, but this time round l‘m just watching TV (or listening to 5 live on radio at night). Not sure if it is an age thing or running round after eldest 2 but def tireder this time still. want another one though

ValiumQueen Tue 23-Oct-12 15:21:49

I have never been able to multitask whilst feeding, except eating of course! I am blessed with large norks, so have to make sure I hold it so I do not suffocate the poor little scrap! I found laying on my side to feed was easier once they were bigger, but then I was at risk of falling asleep. I am determined to MN whilst feeding this time. I have a clamp for my iPad so hopefully that should help.

Thechick Tue 23-Oct-12 15:27:42

More babies being born, how exciting. Congrats to all the new arrivals. We are still in the scbu but hopefully will be able to go home soon. Just need him feeding more. He still gets very sleepy when he feeds. He's being ff by hospital suggestion. As he was born early, he had low blood sugar and they said that he needed to get it up. So he's been ff from birth having the occasional breastfeed from me. He was 2 weeks last Sunday. They want him taking a certain amount over a 24 hour period and then we can go.

The baby blues was mentioned. I think I definitely had it at about day 5. I was still in a bit of shock that I had my baby at 34 weeks, my stitches still hurt, my milk had just come in and I was expressing every three hours, I was coming to the hospital every day as I was discharged and leaving my little one at night was the hardest thing and I was a bit fed up with all the visitors and really didn't want to put on a smily face when I felt so crap, and the nurses all seemed to say something different. There was no continuity and it all just got on top of me. I'm okay now though. Just want the boy home.

Thechick Tue 23-Oct-12 15:45:04

Ok, the birth story. Thursday I started having braxton hicks. Didn't really think anything of it, have been having braxton hicks since I was about 17 weeks. Friday they were still there coming about every 15, 20 minutes. Again didn't think much of it, just thought it was a uti and had midwife app on Tuesday and drs for flu jab on Monday, so thought ill just get them to check it out when I see them. At about 4 pm on Friday I had some brown spotting. I've had brown spotting before so again didn't think it was a huge deal but called MAU to see what they thought. They told me to come in for a check up so did so and they checked my cervix which was firmly shut. They decided to give me steroids for the little ones lungs just in case it was early labour (which of course it wasnt) which really stung and wanted to keep me over night as I needed 4 in total every 12 hours. I was 33+5 at this point so didn't have my bag packed or anything. Had to get my family to run around and bring me stuff. Stayed at hospital overnight and braxton hicks not painful but still regular. During Saturday they ramped up a lot and measured me at about 8 o clock and I was 2/3cm dilated. Was in shock. Went to labour ward which was a good sized room with a bed and a bean bag and a table thing for checking out the baby and was put on a machine to monitor my contractions and the baby's heartbeat. I had lots of liquid during the day and needed to use the toilet literally every 10-15 mins or so. Might have been a bit of nerves also. I had to call the midwife every time I wanted to use the toilet which I felt bad about but she seemed okay about it. The contractions got more and more intense and started to become painful. I read that you shouldn't try to fight the contractions and tried to breathe through them which did help and the beginning but they just got more and more intense. There were tears it was so painful. I did ask the midwife for pain relief but I'm not sure when and she gave me tablets which did nothing. Most of the night is a blur but they did check me when I told them I was in a lot of pain and needed something and I was 9 cm and got the gas and air which was heaven. And kept getting this overwhelming urge to push that just took over my whole body. It was so strange. Holden was born a couple of hours later by vbac.

PetiteRaleuse Tue 23-Oct-12 16:05:38

I can't take anti inflammatories unfortunately, did so after emcs last year and ended up with my stomach haemorraging, major stomach surgery and a few days in a coma when dd1 was a couple of weeks old. I'm off them for life now.

gt it was always my intention to mix feed ff with expressed milk. I just got my pump today which is great as already blistering even tho was mixing... I'm happy with the paed's advice.

When I do bf though I find a cushion and ipad helpful and willing people to fetch and carry

Congrats to the chick.

ShellyBobbs Tue 23-Oct-12 16:23:28

Chick Sounds very scary for you, glad everything turned out OK in the end.

Thechick Tue 23-Oct-12 16:45:24

It was insane, but I don't actually remember the pain now two weeks on.

ShellyBobbs Tue 23-Oct-12 16:49:27

It's funny isn't it how quickly you forget the pain. I suppose it's so we'll eventually have more grin

PetiteRaleuse Tue 23-Oct-12 17:22:51

I guess if we didn't forget most of us wouldn't do it again.

Evilwater Tue 23-Oct-12 18:53:59

Sorry I have Not been around, baby evil is evil. I'm SO tired.

He only wants to sleep on me! And is drinking LOADS of milk. I can't keep up EBM. All I do all day is pump, and feed him. Plus I have this rash on my boobs, that itchs.

I'll catch up on the posts when I'm up at 0400.

Thechick Tue 23-Oct-12 19:42:37

We are going home from the scbu!! Woohoo!! It's been a long 16 days!!

StuntNun Tue 23-Oct-12 19:59:59

Poor Evil! Little Nick is just trying to build up your supply then it will all settle down. I promise you it's worth it in the end.

ValiumQueen Tue 23-Oct-12 20:28:22

evil are you putting him on the breast and pumping or just pumping? You are doing so well, but hope you soon get some well earned rest!

YellowWellies Tue 23-Oct-12 21:02:35

Just to let you all know that YellowWellies and I (DH) had our son this morning at 4.27 am by ventouse. YellowWellies was awesome having laboured for 22 hours and did so well (she was absolutely amazing to be frank). In the end she was pretty tired and ventouse was seen as the best option. No long later Jonas appeared and despite being a small 6lb 4oz and 4 weeks early he's doing really well.

If this is posting in the wrong place please accept my apologies. Not used to mumsnet or forums! YellowWelliesDH

Dixiebell Tue 23-Oct-12 21:29:05

GT, a big pillow on lap to rest your arm and baby's body on. I used to be able to rest an open book or iPhone on the pillow too. Pillow behind back too. You get more used to it. I remember the annoyance of dropping said phone/book on floor at 3am! I also ended up finding it easier during day to lie back on sofa with my feet up and pillow across lap, and TV on!

rowingdowntheriver Tue 23-Oct-12 23:20:47

Congratulations yw and ywdh!

My baby was born by ELCS at 9.13am on Monday and he is doing well. Seems permanently hungry but I guess that is to be expected?!

I'm going to try to get some sleep now but suppose I'll be back online in a couple of hours!

Thechick Tue 23-Oct-12 23:31:58

We should get a list going of birth dates of our little ones, the same as the due dates we had.

MissMummy1 Tue 23-Oct-12 23:41:39

Congrats rowing ! Name? Weight? Glad he'a doing well and hope you're recovering quickly too!

Congrats MrYW on being able to find the right place from my muddled up message!

rowingdowntheriver Wed 24-Oct-12 02:12:08

Thanks missmummy, his name is Louis Albert Winston and he weighs 7lb 4oz. Seems so tiny after DS1 who was 10lb 3oz.

The little guy literally doesn't want to stop feeding - he'll be on me for an hour then cry the minute I try putting him in his Moses basket. Oh joy!

GTbaby Wed 24-Oct-12 05:10:14

Just did 4am feed. Catching up on ante thread, which is hard work! Very tiered. But can't sleep.

VQ I have same issue of large boobs. So have to hold on. Laying on my side doesn't seem like a solution for me as I think my nipples r in the wrong place lol blush.

I'm using a pillow under baby n another under my elbow so that holding boob is more comfy.

Thechick Wed 24-Oct-12 10:12:58

Had our first night at home. LO does not like the Moses basket. He was such a sound sleeper at the hospital but sleeps really restlessly at home. Any tips??

rowingdowntheriver Wed 24-Oct-12 11:46:36

Hi chick, we had the same problem here! For us I think it is either one of two things - either the little one is more recovered from the birth and ready to start feeding much more regularly than he did in hospital (it is quite common for babies to sleep amazingly for the first night or two after they are born) or, that the Moses basket is too cold for him as it was boiling in the postnatal ward. I'm thinking of bringing a hot water bottle to bed tonight and using it to warm the basket slight,y before putting him in it.

GTbaby Wed 24-Oct-12 15:51:49

Just called LLL help line. Just some general Qs about expressing. N I start crying sad. Breast feeding is so hard. But I know it will b worth it. But emotionally draining.
Must keep trying. N doing more research for tips. She gave me a good tip. If baby is sleepy give a little expressed milk first to wake him up then put him on boob.

daisychain76 Wed 24-Oct-12 20:19:05

Aw congrats Rowing and thechick its lovely to hear your little boy is home. Do you feel you have missed out on the last few weeks of being pregnant?? I sort of feel a bit cheated by missing them, although l am so glad to be cuddling my LO. I use the trick with the hotwater bottle Rowing suggests and find it really helps. I. also have a muslim square under his head with my smell on it

gt l think you are doing so well persevering. and giving your LO an amazing start. lf he is getting sleepy winding him, changing his nappy, washing his face or blowing gently on his face and stroking his cheek can all help. I am changing nappies twice to get him feeding on both sides at the mo!

TheDetective Wed 24-Oct-12 20:47:56

I find that babies sleep better with some noise.

Try some white noise.

I'm not telling you how I know this grin

rowingdowntheriver Thu 25-Oct-12 04:07:43

Ah we'll, very little improvement on sleeping tonight! I can barely never wake DS2 up during the day yet the moment I get the Moses basket upstairs at around 11pm, that is it, he is awake for the night!

Bloody hell though, this breast feeding is really hurting. Especially on the right hand boob. Usually after the first 10 or so sucks the pain eases off but for those sucks I am sat mouthing 'fuck fuck fuck fuck'. It really hurts.

I'm using lanisoh cream and the midwife checked the latch yesterday and thinks it looks ok so maybe I'm just going to have to bear it? God I hope not. I've got some nipple shields so I might have to give them a go for a bit although didn't want to as think using them will affect my milk supply.

Evilwater Thu 25-Oct-12 04:30:38

Well we have been kicked out the bedroom for making to much noise again, as my DS won't sleep!
DP has work soon, his answer to the problem, feed him and keep feeding him, but it's not working.

Cat feed, nowacuppa for me.

NervousAt20 Thu 25-Oct-12 06:16:38

chick wow that sounds like a very stressful labour for you, I'm glad you don't remember the pain now. Wohooo and congratulations on going home I'm sure you can't wait grin

Congratulations yellow glad you and LO are both doing well an you got to birth on the island

Congratulations rowing Louis is a very nice name

There are alot of babies arriving grin

rowing we had that exact same problem the first couple of nights home, babyN would sleep amazing in the day but as soon as night came she would not settle, not happy in her Moses basket, wouldn't sleep she just wanted to be held but then if your too still she would cry to be rocked. I'm not sure what changed but by night 3 at home touchwood we've had success at nighttime sleeping and she has been settling great in her Moses basket. I have the pain with the first 5 sucks or so and my HV said it was my milk being let down, apparently

I haven't been on the thread for a few days its just a madness. I haven't managed to peep into the other one in a few days either so imagine ill find a new thread grin

Well baby is back in bed and im praying for a few more hours sleep

PetiteRaleuse Thu 25-Oct-12 07:07:21

Mine is a day sleeper and a night waker too... Am going to give it a few days and start on trying, little by little, to correct it.

Dixiebell Thu 25-Oct-12 07:26:24

rowing, I remember the searing pain of the first few sucks, people say if you're doing it right it shouldn't hurt but I was exactly like you. But found it stopped after the first few weeks, I suppose nipples harden or whatever, and then bf for 15 months with no probs, keep using the Lansinoh!

Evilwater Thu 25-Oct-12 07:49:31

Petite-how do you correct it?


Thechick Thu 25-Oct-12 09:28:43

I'm in exactly the same boat with the night time. LO sleeps really well during the day but at night he just won't settle.

Daisy I did feel like I'd missed out. I would have liked to have said goodbye to work properly and finish my handover. I would have liked to have finished sorting the house and buying all the stuff before he got here and it would have been nice to have had a little bit of relaxing time before the craziness started but I wouldn't change anything for the world, he's such a precious little boy.

I can't get enough of chocolate. It's crazy!! I was so good during the pregnancy but am being really bad now. Does anyone know if expressing burns as many calories as bf?

rowingdowntheriver Thu 25-Oct-12 09:46:11

Mmm, surprise surprise he is fast asleep now! I'm going to try waking him every 2 or 3 hours during the day to feed so that he isn't as hungry at night and is hopefully a little bit more tired then too. Hopefully it'll be as you say nervous and he corrects himself soon anyway.

dixie, it is good to hear that the breastfeeding pain should go away although a couple of weeks with this pain at about say 15 feeds a day = a lot of pain that I don't want to have to go through!

Evilwater Thu 25-Oct-12 10:27:47

The chick - as I'm aware expressing burns the same calories.

After three weeks, my DS is still up all night.
How much more can this kid eat? Feed at 2,4,6,8 and now 10. I'd love some sleep please, or a shower.

How come they make that, innocent face. Grr..
And the HV is arriving soon, and I'm not dressed!

PetiteRaleuse Thu 25-Oct-12 11:26:23

Evil - with DD1 we were very lucky, and hope to be the same this time round. The theory : We just very gently, taking baby steps, tried to reinforce the difference between day and night. Night time feeds were done with a tiny night lighht, no talking or stimulation. During the day feeds were made into awake times with songs and noise and trips to the window.

When DD1 woke up during the night she would wait for her feed a little longer each time (I'm talking minutes, not hours, and in my arms, not being left to cry) and gradually the night time waking became a regular, short feed every three, four, then five hours, and straight back to sleep afterwards.

It took ten weeks to have her sleeping regularly through six hours at night, and I considered her to be sleeping through when she did six nights out of seven with a six or seven hour stretch of sleep.

I have to say though agan we were lucky, and I can only hope this time round is as trouble free. I'm not going to start trying to get her to adapt though until she is a couple of weeks old and seems to be putting weight on, jaundice gone etc. I'm mix feeding, like I did last time and since Tuesday expressed into bottles for the breastmilk feeds. It worked for me last time (until I had to stop breastfeeding completely for other reasons) and paeds advised it anyway this time round.

I'll let you know if what worked last time works this time over the next few months.... Worth trying making night feeds into a non event anyway as a start smile

PetiteRaleuse Thu 25-Oct-12 11:29:15

Obviously we did more than trips to the window during the day feeds, but as they tend to fall asleep during walks and in the car I'm not counting trips out.

GTbaby Thu 25-Oct-12 14:11:32

petit will b taking those tips on board.

I'm finding little one goes straight to sleep during day. But night will just fight with his blanket kicking n fighting to get it off. Even with same blanket used during day wrapped in same style.

He is feeding ATM. Although I think he is just sucking as I hear no swollowing. Hmmm. He has been on the boob almost an hour now. Think it's time to top with formula. I think if it wasn't for the jaundice I'd prob wouldn't turn to formula top ups.

PetiteRaleuse Thu 25-Oct-12 14:55:33

Maybe get some advice before topping up gt you need to be happy with any choice you make. If you really want to bf exclusively then someone should be able to help you get there. I have no strong opinion euther way which is why I suit myself. I work on the basis that anything I can provide is brilliant but ff is a great alternative.

PetiteRaleuse Thu 25-Oct-12 14:58:05

Both my dds have had tongue tie - didn't affect their latch but I believe it can. They both had it fixed anyway - has your LO been checked for that gt ?

GTbaby Thu 25-Oct-12 18:55:33

Originally I wanted to feed just on breast. But now finding it so hard think ff is just easier. But feel bad for thinking that was sad.

I think I'd b happy with mixing ff n bf. however he is not full after bf. he always wants more. Only time he hasn't wanted more was Monday when mw came for visit n helped me. But doesn't feel like I'm doing anything different. Also haven't managed to express much sad only about 10 ml for two tries on both boobs. Feel like my boobs have dried up n I have no more milk.

Have HV coming tomorrow. It's a guy blush. I'll ask him if there r any local support groups.

StuntNun Thu 25-Oct-12 19:26:31

Sorry to hear you're struggling GT. Whatever you choose to do make the best decision for you and baby's happiness and don't feel guilty. There is too much pressure on new mums from all sides, both for breastfeeding and for formula feeding. I was breastfed for six weeks then put on cow's milk; modern formula milk is a million times better than that. And there's nothing wrong with combining breastfeeding and topping up with formula either. That way your baby gets the initial benefits of your antibodies but you don't have to worry about him being hungry. The problem is your milk may dry up with combined feeding but as long as you're prepared for it, it's a good option as it means you don't need to express if you're leaving the baby with someone for a while.

Cheer up, you're trying to do what's best for your baby and that's the most important thing. As long as he's fed, he won't mind what type of milk it is.

Dixiebell Thu 25-Oct-12 20:17:52

GT, I always struggled to get much milk from expressing, baby might be much better at getting it out, so wouldn't necessarily judge on that.

rowingdowntheriver Thu 25-Oct-12 21:19:51

I had exactly the same problem with DS1 GT and eventually settled on breast feeding and topping up with formula. For a long while I would also express after each feed to increase my supply. Eventually I got to the point where DS had breast milk all the time save for the last 2 feeds of the day where my supply seemed to have dried up.

Having said that, it was not easy and I found that between breastfeeding, topping up and expressing I was literally tied to the sofa and very tired and unhappy. I've already decided that I'm not going to go down that route with DS2 so I'll breast feed and top up if necessary but not express.

Thechick Fri 26-Oct-12 09:19:15

GT I'm completely the opposite, I'm struggling with ff, lol. LO was ff from birth as he was 6 weeks early and that's what the hospital said and I've been expressing 7 times a day to try and match the amount he needs and I give that to him with formula. He's 19 days old and has just started to latch properly. I want him to be exclusively bf as I really can't be bothered with all the steralising and measuring and him not liking different teets and burping and what happens if we go out and heating the milk, it's really not for me.

daisychain76 Fri 26-Oct-12 11:37:53

Hi all and congrats to YW. Really pleased today as have used my moby wrap for the school run. A friend gave it to me and someone from my local sling library was really kind and came out to help me get to grips with it. He settles far better in that than in his pram.

Fingers crossed everyone has a good day feeding wise today. l am planning to spend as much time as possible feeding in front of the TV as both older DCs are off for a week from tonight so there won‘t be much rest to be had.

NervousAt20 Fri 26-Oct-12 14:09:31

I can't believe my little girl is a week old today !!!!!

Evilwater Fri 26-Oct-12 15:58:39

The health visitor came yesterday, and my son is now 7,1, after all the feed he has been having I'm not surprised. He is on the 9th percentile, but I'm not worried as he has grown in length.

The HV went followed a check list, which is stuff I've been told before.
Yes, feeding from the breast is best,
yes I know my milk supply could dry up cause I'm expressing,
yes I've tryed him on the breast and it hasn't worked, we both have had problems from day one. We both got very stressed about it.
yes I'm topping up with formula, but it's not all the time, and no I'm not mixing the two into one bottle. What's with that anyway?
Yes I am using a dummy, and no it's not all the time.

It seems they want me to go to the groups that are held, but being three weeks old and both of us are up all night, I don't think it bring any benefit yet.

Any ideas on when it would be the best time to go? When we both are awake during the day?


StuntNun Fri 26-Oct-12 17:24:39

The latest ante-natal thread is here Slightly ahead of time but the new ante-natal thread is here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/antenatal_clubs/1597357-November-2012-but-that-starts-on-Thursday if you want to mark your place.

NervousAt20 Sat 27-Oct-12 01:23:08

Sorry evil don't have any ideas on when you be the best time to go, my HV hasn't told us what percentile or anything BabyN is on and deffo hasn't told us of any groups, even though eventually I want to go to some when I can drive my beloved car again

I'm wondering of ill have to wait the full 6 weeks to drive again of if my doctor will let me sooner, if its not safe too then of course I wouldn't but I'm feeling quite good after my c-section and 6 weeks seems excessive now

Wow another new thread!! Think I only managed to mark my place on the last one blush

PetiteRaleuse Sat 27-Oct-12 09:52:40

I was told by my doctor Nervous to drive when I felt I could do an emergency stop. I had my elcs last Friday too and don't feel ready yet but I think another 10 days to two weeks is reasonable (for me).

I'm still taking paracetamol to get through the day, but only two grams - I think when there is no need anymore for painkillers I will try driving DH's car (automatic) and then leave my own until I miss it too much smile

DonnaDoon Sat 27-Oct-12 11:51:48

Well done Evil for getting your son up to a super weight Im still bfeeding and dd is putting weight on slowly she is now 6lb4oz so still not back up to birth weight but midwife says she ll get there ...I am very tempted to top up with formula but midwife says not to as it will interfere with my milk supply so Im hanging on.

daisychain76 Sat 27-Oct-12 19:08:47

That‘s great Donna and it must be reassuring if MW is happy. Nervous l think l read something about checking your insurrance policy before driving as some insurers want you to wait 6 weeks. l am 5 weeks in from my c section and feel pretty back to normal tho my scar (if that‘s the right dezcription) still feels a bit sore if l over do it. l was wondering if swimming is a good idea or would hurt?

Evil if you are up to it and it isn‘t a huge trek it might be worth trying a group.lf it is a bfeeding support one it might be good to hear how other mums are doing. l am thinking of starting a baby music group next week. Having said that, with my 1st it was about 4 months til l went to anything.

PetiteRaleuse Sat 27-Oct-12 20:42:51

daisy I had two sets of abdominal surgery last year including emcs and was told not to swim for 6 weeks post op but that after that it was an ideal exercise. Take it slowly and stop any stroke which hurts. Walking is also good exercise.

NervousAt20 Sat 27-Oct-12 21:30:24

Thanks daisy I will check my insurance policy if I do feel I'm able to drive before 6 weeks but I deffo won't if I feel that I'm not 100% capable
petite i was told the same by one MW and another thing by a different one, all the conflicting advice gets very confusing

BabyN has been feeding almost every hour all day today including in the cat in tesco car park I'm hoping for a better night but not counting on it

rowingdowntheriver Sat 27-Oct-12 23:56:32

That's interesting that you were advised swimming would be ok after a C-section. Last time I was told to wait 12 weeks before doing any exercise so I was going to do the same this time though would like to swim earlier than that if possible.

Can I ask when your babies were first weighed? DS is 5 days old and has not been weighed since he was born so I don't know how much, if anything, he lost / put on since then.

NervousAt20 Sun 28-Oct-12 00:26:27

rowing my DD was weighed at birth then at 2 days old when we left the hospital and then again at 5 days old by the health
Visitor at home and now im not ment to see them until next Friday of next week but think im going to phone and see if there's a drop in I can go to this week toget DD weighed

rowingdowntheriver Sun 28-Oct-12 02:46:57

Thanks nervous, think I'll give midwives a call tomorrow (today) to check then. I remember them doing it regularly with DS1 and then telling me I had to wake him to feed every 2 hours as he had lost nearly 10% his body weight. They've not mentioned it at all with DS2 and he'll be 8 days when I see them next.

I've had a miracle on the sleep front tonight, DS slept from about 8 to 11 then DH gave him 50ml I expressed yesterday morning, brought him upstairs at 12 when I fed him and then he went down until now! Compared to the other night when I couldn't get him to settle in his Moses basket until 5am it has been wonderful!

StuntNun Sun 28-Oct-12 07:30:51

Ladies, please bear in mind that babies are supposed to lose weight in the first few days after they're born then gain weight steadily after that. So long as they're having plenty of dirty nappies and they are gaining weight that's good. Also the growth chart that they use is based on formula-fed babies so if you are bfing or combined feeding then the chart is inaccurate. With my DS2 I had the new chart for breastfed babies and he followed his line perfectly on that one whereas on the regular chart his growth didn't appear to be as good. I ended up stopping taking him to be weighted because it was too stressful for no good reason when he was obviously in good health and meeting all his developmental milestones.

PetiteRaleuse Sun 28-Oct-12 09:41:39

Rowing, I don't mean strenuous swims, nothing that would pull too much on your abs for example. But using a float to help, for example, and taking it really slowly should be fine.

My DD lost her 10% weight in the first 72 hours. The hospital discharged us on condition we kept an eye on her, and supplemented. I'm going to get her checked this week, even though the jaundice seems to have gone and we're getting through plenty of nappies. Would be useful to have hv or mw come to the home I must admit.

NervousAt20 Sun 28-Oct-12 10:27:24

petite don't you get a visit at home by a HV?

PetiteRaleuse Sun 28-Oct-12 11:27:38

No I'm in France. Here babies are seen every few weeks and progressively less by paediatricians. Hv's don't exist and midwives only come out privately or on prescription in case of recommendation from paed (ie a problem which needs a close eye kept on it)

NervousAt20 Sun 28-Oct-12 11:53:36

Ooh sorry I didn't realise, is there any clinics or things where you can get LO weighed? Sorry if that's a nosey Q just tell me to mind my own business

Any nice plans for the day?

PetiteRaleuse Sun 28-Oct-12 12:43:36

I'll take her to the GP - he'll be happy as he doesn't see many babies (everyone here just sees paediatricians) and he'll weigh her and do a basic check up.

Today we have friends coming this afternoon for champagne and cake. You?

NervousAt20 Sun 28-Oct-12 13:52:38

It's good you have somewhere you can go too

Today my mum is coming over and doing a roast smile yum and hopfully ill get some sleep

PetiteRaleuse Sun 28-Oct-12 14:30:51

I tend to see the GP for basic stuff and then the paediatrician for the regular check ups and jabs plus anything more complicated than a cold. Over here each child has a paediatrician and it's quite rare for people to take their children to a GP.

Ooh a roast cooked by mum, that sounds good (I hope my dds say that one day). My mum is coming over in about 10 days to help out for a week and bond with her grandchildren.

ValiumQueen Sun 28-Oct-12 15:37:05

Greetings fellow graduates. My beautiful baby boy Jacob Ian John was born on Thursday at around 3.30 via section. He weighed 9lb 1/2 oz and is very long and skinny. He has lots of black curly hair and is very good looking IMO. We came home yesterday. He also sleeps all day then feeds non -stop from 3pm until 5 the next morning. He is a pro at feeding and has put in so much effort my milk has already come in, which is a good 1-2 days earlier than it did with his sisters.

I am tired but happy. Section was a bit tricky, and I lost a lot of blood, but they managed to tie off my tubes so I am looking forward to lots of planning-free shagging. My family fels complete. I went for the staples and they are not bad at all. Bit sore still.

Jacob hates his Moses basket too.

NervousAt20 Sun 28-Oct-12 16:29:32

Congratulations valium that sounds like a great weight! Sorry to hear your section was abit tricky but glad your feeling better. I love name Jacob, what do your DDs think to him?

daisychain76 Sun 28-Oct-12 16:57:06

Many congeatulations VQ. Sounds like you did really. well to be home already. Your post on the ante natal thread about little boys wees made me smile. My LO managed to cover not only his clothes and blanket but also his hair when DH changed him last night! I slept through the whole thing smile.

Been to a garden centre today and it was full of Christmas stuff already.

Think l will try swimming next weekend and see how it goes.

DD asked me today to guess who she loved more ~one of our cats or the baby. Of course, the correct answer was the cat smile

ValiumQueen Sun 28-Oct-12 17:00:16

DDs love him. The eldest is a bit jealous, but DD2 is being so gentle, loving and helpful. DD2 has decided she is now also a boy.

PetiteRaleuse Sun 28-Oct-12 18:36:44

Congratulations Valium !

My family also complete but they wouldn't do my tubes do DH has had to take an appointment...

ValiumQueen Sun 28-Oct-12 18:50:23

Probably your age petit. I am 43. They said if this were my third section, they would have been recommending it to me.

PetiteRaleuse Sun 28-Oct-12 19:36:54

Yes they said I was too young at 32. They also told me that for various health reasons I should think twice before having any more but they didn't want me open or operated on any more than absolutely necessary.

Catbag Sun 28-Oct-12 20:29:05

Massive congrats vq! Jacob is a fabulous name. I may be biased though as that is the name of my firstborn grin

daisychain76 Sun 28-Oct-12 21:04:58

I am jealous of people who have that feeling their family is complete. l feel incredibly lucky with my 3 but l still would have liked no. 4 in a year or so. Howevet, having had preeclampsia quite severely this time there is an increased risk of it happening again and l think it1 would be selfish to put DH and DCs through that. If DH would make an appointment l would get him to do so, to put the idea out of my mind once and for all, but he won‘t so l can‘t help thinkinf (what if.. !) Disclaimer: This may all be down to post~birth hormones anyway!

GTbaby Sun 28-Oct-12 22:48:55

Saw on FB horsey n blonder have popped. Welcome to the gang!

I had a fab day. We celebrated 13 day of our son being here! I didn't even know its something we celebrate in my culture. Lol mil told us about it Friday ( which caused slight issues with DH) but anyway. We had all the women in the family over to see the little one and had some yummy food n caught up with everyone.

rowingdowntheriver Mon 29-Oct-12 01:09:13

Welcome to the thread valium!

gt, a 13 day celebration with all the women in your family sounds lovely. I bet with lots of ladies in the house your little one never saw the Moses basket for a moment!

Evilwater Mon 29-Oct-12 06:55:30

GT- that sounds a wonderful idea, having people around. I hope you don't mind if I steel it.

See you ladies on the night feed thread.

ValiumQueen Mon 29-Oct-12 07:38:28

So GT does your boy have a name yet? All I remember is you being givens he letter H.

I am slightly concerned that Jacob will be one of 12 in his class, but I o not actually know any little Jacobs. His NN is possibly gonna be Coby, but DD2 calls him Eepa as she cannot say his name properly. That may just stick!

DD1 has a very rare name in this country, and DD2s NN was only meant to be a joke, and stuck. It so suits her though.

Well, night 4 has been better. He slept more during the night as my milk is now in. He will not sleep in the basket though, so work needs doing on that. I do not like having him in bed with us, but I was at breaking point with tiredness. I actually thought I was looking after more than one baby at one point -not sure if it was a dream or waking after a dream. I distinctly remember YWs baby being there. Bizarre. I am terrified of him getting squished. Both of us are well padded, and my left boobie alone could squish him. He likes that one best.

Do we have a list yet?

PetiteRaleuse Mon 29-Oct-12 08:32:22

Valium when I was in hospital they were encouraging co-sleeping (not in UK). We're having trouble getting Dd1 to sleep in her own bed, so I cn't risk it with DD2, as her older sister tends to thrash around.

However, when dd1 was a new born at the hospital they took a bf cushion, stretched a sheet over it to stop her falling through and to provide better back support and put that over the duvet with just a light blanket to cover her so she doesn't over heat. We continued that at home, buying a cushion that would support her properly and she slept between us. As she wasn't under the duvet and was higher than us we couldn't squash her, but she still had the comfort of us being there iyswim.

I have no idea if this would be recommended in the UK, but it worked for us. A small cot maress would do the job too I guess. Se didn't sleep with us every night but it helped in those early knackering days. Since Dd2 was born DD1 is insisting on sleeping back with us. Jealousy I guess.. This too shall pass.

ValiumQueen Mon 29-Oct-12 08:48:22

That is very interesting petite I have a bf pillow that is also designed for baby support. Will think about that. He would not sleep in the cot at the hospital either. They are all different as the girls had no trouble settling, although the rose tinted glasses have probably kicked in.

Milk well and truly in and have a hangover from actually sleeping.

Anyone really swollen after IV fluids? My legs and arms and torso are swollen all the way up to ribs. Quite painful.

Evilwater Mon 29-Oct-12 08:54:25

VQ- my feet swell, after the Hartmans IV. They do go down afterwards, took a while as I was shattered after the birth.

ValiumQueen Mon 29-Oct-12 10:09:36

Last night I had to feed him in bed as I could not sit in my chair as my feet were aching so. I struggled lifting him as my arms were so swollen. Breathing was somewhat impaired also. I had this after both the others, and remember the first time I thought I was going into heart failure. The only way to rid yourself is drink gallons. I weigh 3kg less this morning just through peeing. Last time I peed off 10 kg in the first week.

Really chuffed with my staples. So much better than the continuous with beads.

I am so in love with this little man, although in the middle of the night would have happily swapped him for a puppy.

He has not been weighed since birth, which I thought was odd.

blonderthanred Mon 29-Oct-12 10:49:37

Hello, hello everyone. Gosh. This is all very strange isn't it?

First night at home and he followed a similar pattern to yesterday - up all night till 4, then having a good snooze in the morning. Totally entranced by his funny little face and squeaking noises, quietly proud of his slightly louder earblastingsquawking when he wants to communicate dissatisfaction.

So after 1 night I'm thinking about forking out for a bednest - am i crazy? I'm finding it hard to sit up after the c section and there is so much picking up and putting down it seems like it might be worth it. They seem to have a good resale value too.

Like VQ's baby he's also not keen on the Moses basket and I dozed off several times unintentionally with him on my breast which I'm really paranoid about.

I can't get over how amazing all this is. DH and I mostly just stare at him.

ValiumQueen Mon 29-Oct-12 11:28:56

blonder I am also thinking about getting a baby nest. I will try petites idea up thread first though, as I want Jacob in his own space ASAP. I did not know you had a section? I have not read your birth story yet. My sympathies. It is not easy feeding with a big uncut in your tummy, although in some ways that is easier than a ripped undercarriage.

This is my third, and I spend all day looking at him too smile

blonderthanred Mon 29-Oct-12 12:02:51

I haven't really gone through it in detail but had a CS on Friday after failed IOL. Very long, surreal week.

We ended up with Lawrence on the duvet between us last night. I had also used the bf pillow on the hospital bed when I was struggling, similar to pr's description. But I'm alarmed at how easy it has been to doze while feeding without realising it, just a few seconds at a time usually.

On the first night at the hospital they had a cot hooked on to the bed and it was wonderful, could just scooch him over for a feed and he held my finger all night. I was the last section of the day so still completely immobile. 2nd night they moved us to a side room which was lovely in some ways but it had a separate cot that I couldn't reach without standing and ended up being a pretty traumatic night. The first night was such a contrast even though he woke just as much.

My breasts have gone a bit lumpy today so I am guessing my milk might be starting to come in which will hopefully be fab as L sometimes gets frustrated by the colostrum.

I was going to wait until his poo has changed before starting on the cloth but looking forward to it!

ValiumQueen Mon 29-Oct-12 12:23:53

I am sorry you had the failed induction. I was induced with the first, and was shattered by the end of it all. That is promising that your boobies are getting lumpy. Milk is not far away, so you are clearly doing a good job.

I was due to be first on the list Thursday, but there were three emergencies so I was bumped to 3.30. Having been starved since previous evening I became dehydrated and quite unwell with it, so that did not help. I had to stay in recovery for ages too as there were complications. I was back on the ward by 10.30 and the first night was one solid feed. Up and showered first thing, and caring for my boy on my own in a ward full of inconsiderate mums, so slightly envious of your side room. Second night was bad as they messed up my meds again and I got sick of arguing with them. I plan to complain as they were talking shite. Jacob would not sleep anywhere but on me, and the midwives actually put him to sleep next to me which worried me no end. I lost track of the number of times I fell asleep holding him or feeding him. On the second day I woke up to him having a poo, and looked down and there he was feeding away. I made sure at all times he was well bolstered with cushions, but you hear sad tales of mums suffocating babies while feeding. That is why I always intent to feed in the nursery once I can. I too cannot wait to put him in fluff. His bum was bleeding this morning because of those horrid Huggies. Stay dry my arse!!!

Well, success this morning! Boy is asleep in his Phil and Teds Coccoon! I will take this up to bed tonight so if needs be he can sleep in that between me and daddy. I will try the Moses basket first as we have a movement monitor in that, but the cocoon would be a safer option than just between us. This morning when I woke up he had rolled onto his front and nose was against the mattress. It scared the crap out of me. I had fallen asleep feeding, so he had been on his side.

I am tempted to put him in a gro bag as he is heavy enough, and will not be swaddled. That way he will stay snug whilst feeding and can just pop him in the Coccoon.

ValiumQueen Mon 29-Oct-12 12:24:35

His poo is pretty much there colour wise. And he is seeing for Scotland!

PetiteRaleuse Mon 29-Oct-12 13:02:06

Congrats Blonder. DD1 last year was a EMCS following a failed induction. It really takes it out of you doesn't it. Rest up, look after yourself, and don't overdo it.

blonderthanred Mon 29-Oct-12 19:18:00

Thanks pr, I am trying to follow this advice, of course it's impossible not to want to be up and about but realistically I can't bounce out of bed yet - luckily DH is fantastic and very keen to help. Just need to make sure he gets enough sleep himself.

Fireworks seem to have started, what a great time to have a newborn you want to stay sleeping! Otoh maybe it really is as he'll learn to sleep through loud noises pretty quick.

blonderthanred Mon 29-Oct-12 19:29:42

VQ that sounds like a horrible experience, I am glad I was able to have breakfast. Did they give you a glucose drip or anything?

The cocoon sounds like a good sleeping arrangement. It really is scary when you wake up and they are in a funny position. I also have the Huggies (although the smallest size!) and keep finding these orange crystals near his willy which I guess are from their absorbency pads. Gave me a fright at first as I thought it was blood.

Speaking of which I called the mw in on the 2nd night because I found blood on his ankle and thought it was from the hosp tag cutting into him. It was only when she'd removed it and gone I noticed the cap on my cannula had opened and I'd actually been dripping blood everywhere blush

PetiteRaleuse Mon 29-Oct-12 19:29:55

No fireworks here but dd2 slept through dd1 throwing her lego around half the afternoon. We have wooden floors. It was noisy. Newborns seem to be able to sleep through anything I'm very envy

Thechick Mon 29-Oct-12 19:33:04

My little one breastfed from both boobs today, he hasn't done that once in the 22 days he's been here. Im trying to get him off the bottles and I feel a lot more optimistic now. Had an exhausting day today. It was the first day that dh wasn't here and I thought I would be taking naps and watching tv but no, that didn't happen at all.

daisychain76 Mon 29-Oct-12 20:36:51

That‘s great thechick. My little one still very rarekly manages that. He was weighed today and is 4 pound 14, but health visitor is a bit concerned he was on 50th centile when born but now following 2nd (on premmie chart). Even though it looks like the drop was on nicu he needs to keep putting on at least 100g a week or she‘ll have to refer him for extra checks ~ no pressure then!

Hope you are not too sore now vq and blonder.

horseylady Mon 29-Oct-12 20:58:53

Quick post. I'm ok, then I'm not ok. It's so up and down.

Little man can hardly suck, so he on formula and I'm on the pump. Is having second lot of blood tests later for jaundice. He's gorgeous, I love him, I just want to go home desperately, want to be able to feed him properly and sleep properly. Think we might be up again all night after sleeping today.

Think my Milk might be coming in, breast are growing.

One minute I'm rational the next a sobbing mess. I've had fewer labour flashbacks today though!

ValiumQueen Mon 29-Oct-12 20:59:47

I was given a saline drip, so fluid but no goodness. Apparently my back is badly bruised. The anaesthetist was not very kind or gentle.

Overdid it today. Up and down the stairs a few too many times, put washing away, did a couple of lots, tidied a bit. Not much, but I guess still too much. I yanked my wound in the night trying to get up the bed, so that has bled a bit today. Meant to be having my staples out tomorrow. I would rather they stayed in a couple more days as I am still coughing a lot. Boobs very engorged. Will be glad when they settle. DD2 might be coming down with something too, as coughing a lot. No temp though.

I am extremely grateful that all my babies have been term, and not admitted to NICU for any reason. I have such admiration for you ladies who are expressing and trying to get the baby on the breast. You are doing so very well.

ValiumQueen Mon 29-Oct-12 21:00:46

horsey it will get easier. I really feel for you x

PetiteRaleuse Mon 29-Oct-12 21:24:10

horseylady feeling up and down is normal, and not something we get warned about particularly. It's an emotional rollercoaster and not always the happy ever after bliss we are led to believe it will be.

I have moments where I am sad and crying for no apparent reason, but they clear up and are becoming rarer already.

daisychain76 Mon 29-Oct-12 21:40:06

Horsey fingers crossed you will both be home soon. Remember to go easy on yourself. You have been througggh a pretty traumatic experience then been thrown into sleepless nights and issues with feeding/jaundice. Not to mention all the hormones that are sloshing round as your milk comes in. Anyone would be up and down in that situation but it will pass and you will be able to look back with rreal pride at the fact you got through it all.

ValiumQueen Mon 29-Oct-12 22:35:33

Anyones DH complaining of being tired? DH is tired. I could strangle him.

TheDetective Mon 29-Oct-12 23:02:06

Leave the bastard grin

They all say it, but only once. Unless they are really really stupid!

One man dared to say it to his wife who was in labour in my prescence once. The string of expletives that left her mouth following have never been forgotten by me! She ripped him to bits!

ValiumQueen Mon 29-Oct-12 23:46:48

Trouble is I do not say anything as I will get a row. Usually he apologises when he has been a twat.

DS is 4 days old and has been feeding constantly since 7 pm. I am having to feed him in bed which is keeping him awake. He keeps glaring at me when DS yowls. I remember asking for a night nanny to help me as I have had a fucking operation too, and he said he would help. Some fucking help he is! Grr!

blonderthanred Tue 30-Oct-12 02:52:09

Horsey I really feel for you. Hosp threatened to keep me & DS in another night in case he wasn't feeding enough, despite it clearly being a darn sight easier to do that at home than in a hospital room alone when I could hardly get up.

VQ I've hit a bit of a wall tonight, DS has been feeding so well today I thought we might get a few hrs sleep but he seems allergic to night times. I am sure he is latching on correctly and I know I'm still producing colostrum, so why does he still want feeding every 30 mins after all these hrs? Suspect it is comfort but oh I am so tired and worried I will fall asleep on him. I know it's an age old problem and we can never really know what they want. But all I get is the little O mouth with the tongue out no matter how many things I try. As for the Moses basket, forget it. He's fine in it during the day but at night just a whiff of it is enough to set him off.

DH has put him in the V pillow on the bed but I'm now lying here awake and paranoid. Oh dear I am a cliche aren't I?

GTbaby Tue 30-Oct-12 03:04:46

Finally managed to get LO to sleep. He sleeps so well during day! Literally drinks, nappy change sleep for 4 hours and repeat. Intil 12 midnight. Themselves he won't settle sad he is wide awake n wana to drink (formula) every hour.
Think tomorrow might try waking every three hours n keeping him awake a bit. Maybe then he won't be as hungry at night. No ideA really lol. Making this up as I go.

Horsey I'm all over the place. Cry for NO reason at all. I guess it's all apart of it.

VQ still no name confirmed. We are 80% sure of which name it is, it's DH bday on Sunday n he wants to announce it to family then, so we have a few days to decide if our chosen name suits him.

blonderthanred Tue 30-Oct-12 06:05:41

GT I'm sorry you're finding the same problem but on the other hand I'm glad it's not just me. I guess babies are used to being more active at night when in the womb, or they just don't like the lack of activity going on.

Anyway we all woke up about an hr ago so had a couple of hrs sleep, well baby & DH had 3 hrs while muggins here sat awake worrying. He's had another little feed and dropped off. So it seems co sleeping works but I don't think my nerves can take it.

ValiumQueen Tue 30-Oct-12 06:09:45

Oh blonder I so feel your pain. This is my third and establishing feeding is no easier. I thought I would have a better night but he fed more. Constantly from 7 to 3 with explosive poos to wake him the second he slept.

Babies are hard wired to feed most overnight as that is when the hormones for milk production are at their highest. They are not doing it to be difficult. He fed so much I thought he must be at popping point clearly.

We tried the cocoon and moses basket with no luck. I eventually fed him to sleep lying on my side with the moses basket right by the side of the bed and a pillow between him and the side. I felt he was less at risk tonight.

Put him in gro bag which was a resounding success although he fought it initially.

My wound is very sore so I will ask midwife if I can keep clips in another day or two. I hope it is just the coughing, but sitting up in bed all night puts such a strain on it.

Very pissed off today. DD2 slept well but is very croaky. DD1 is grumpy and daddy is still trying to sleep. For fuck sake man!

blonderthanred Tue 30-Oct-12 06:51:58

Oh dear VQ we are all in the same boat!

DH is lying next to me snoring his head off. I would usually elbow him so he turns over but I want him to sleep as much as poss so he is in better shape to make me breakfast later so I am gritting my teeth and trying not to think uncharitable thoughts. DS has had another feed and I've had painkillers so I'm ok at the moment curled up with him watching his beautiful squidgy face. Thank you for the info about milk production, that makes sense and makes it less frustrating.

I know what you mean about the stitches, I am trying hard to make sure I lie flat or stand straight as much as poss but inevitably I'm mostly propped up on a pillow, not ideal. Must be a nightmare to have a proper cough though - I woke up coughing earlier and started growling to try and combat it as it was so painful on the stitches. And you have your two other DCs to care for too.

StuntNun Tue 30-Oct-12 07:29:35

Horsey it's totally normal for your mood to be up and down like that because of the huge hormonal changes and if you're having difficulties. Hopefully your mood should settle quickly.

Daisy if it's any help my DS1 was born on 50th but dropped to between 2nd and 9th very quickly and stayed there. I don't know whether it's the same with your baby but I was advised that sometimes the maternal nutrition baby receives in utero is different from baby's own natural feeding behaviour. So try not to get to bothered by their concerns; there's a huge difference between a baby that isn't meeting the targets and one that actually isn't thriving.

I have been looking into bfing baby in bed and it might be worth looking at the literature online if you have concerns. There is evidence that a mother feeding her baby at night instinctively curls into a protective position around the baby with one arm above and legs curled round below. There is also evidence that mother and baby's sleeping patterns regulate each other so you will respond to your baby even though you are sleeping, you will be in a lighter sleep. Personally I wouldn't co-sleep with my baby but I wouldn't be too concerned about accidentally falling asleep once in a while when doing all those early night feeds so long as you have taken precautions to ensure your bed is as safe as possible.

NervousAt20 Tue 30-Oct-12 08:17:08

Congratulations horsey sounds like you've had a really tough time and i hope you feel better soon. There are so many hormones racing round your body your bound to feel emotional but it will get easier, take care if yourself x

Sorry to hear there's alot you with night owls, ofcourse our babies like to sleep all day and stay awake all night lol

We registered BabyN birth yesturday grin I was very excited to do it. Just up for feeding and hoping to get a few more hours which I know I won't be able too

NervousAt20 Tue 30-Oct-12 08:55:04

Were thinking about getting some casts done of BabyNs hands and feet, any ideas on how I would start looking into this or recommendations or any ideas why we shouldn't do it?

Catbag Tue 30-Oct-12 09:02:08

Oh horsey and vq, I wrote you both a massive message at 5 this morning and then lost the internet as i tried to post sad

Will try and find five minutes later to remember what i wrote, but in the meantime, <<hugs>>

ValiumQueen Tue 30-Oct-12 09:11:21

I could hug you stunt thank you so very much x

Thank you too cat I look forward to hearing your pearls of wisdom.

Feeling a bit better now daytime is here. Kids at school and baby sleeping like a baby. Oh the irony. Like something out of the exorcist last night.

NervousAt20 Tue 30-Oct-12 09:15:20

Them nights are awful aren't they valium when I was in hospital BabyN did that and I could have just cried, hoping you have a batter night tonight and catchup on some sleep today

ShellyBobbs Tue 30-Oct-12 10:17:39

For what it's worth, I ended up with all 3 of mine in bed with me, surely for sanity reasons. They slept on the end though and we slept as Stunt describes above.

ShellyBobbs Tue 30-Oct-12 10:18:56


ValiumQueen Tue 30-Oct-12 10:22:18

I am tucked up in bed and boy is with daddy. Boy asleep. Bet midwife calls as soon as I drop off. Gonna check his head for bony protrusions and numbers later. Would grin, but phone does not allow. All is wonderful in the daytime.

ValiumQueen Tue 30-Oct-12 12:48:08

Off to sodding hospital. Lost 11 % of body weight so need checking. May need to stay in dependent on bloods. Grr!

NervousAt20 Tue 30-Oct-12 12:52:00

Hoping everything goes well for you valium and you and LO are both okay!!

ValiumQueen Tue 30-Oct-12 12:53:01

Thank you nervous

StuntNun Tue 30-Oct-12 12:54:48

I think the SIDS research has maybe gone a bit over the top regarding the risks of sleeping with your baby. Yes they found that 54% of cases had been co-sleeping but that means 46% were in a cot. They also included parents sleeping with a child on the sofa in the co-sleeping group and sofas disproportionately increase the risk because there are cushions and gaps that make it more likely for baby's head to get pressed up against something breathing stale air. There have also been concerns that saying co-sleeping is hazardous has led to mothers leaving the bed to feed on the sofa which is actually more dangerous.

A lot of women like Shelly says do end up co-sleeping and, if take precautions such as no alcohol or drug use (I'm assuming that means things like codeine or antihistamines rather that hard drugs!), ensuring baby can't fall out of bed or wriggle under the pillows and covers.

I hope you all get your babies into a routine soon. I'll be joining you in a couple of weeks and you can laugh at me complaining that my baby won't sleep in the Moses basket and I keep falling asleep feeding him. grin

blonderthanred Tue 30-Oct-12 13:09:47

Oh VQ how stressful for you. Keeping everything crossed all is ok. I thought that they were meant to lose body weight or is that outside the range?

ShellyBobbs Tue 30-Oct-12 14:56:52

VQ Hope everything is OK with little one x

Yes stunt, I have every intention of having this little one in bed for the first few weeks grin

TheDetective Tue 30-Oct-12 15:01:39

I'll probably be co-sleeping too. It remains to be seen if DP will be also co-sleeping grin

Just going to take it as it comes! I co-slept with DS for a couple of months.

daisychain76 Tue 30-Oct-12 15:30:32

Sometimes wish l could co~sleep but know l would be too anxious to do the sleep bit. I keep waking up and panicking over whether l took the hot water bottle out of the moses basket before putting little one down! He seems to be getting worse at night rather than better ~ he was really unsettled last night and never went longer than an hour and a half.

Thanks for the comments re weight stunt. I think it all stems back to them mucking up the nicu discharge as they have no records of how much he lost in there.

Hope everything is ok VQ and that you are both home soon.

horseylady Tue 30-Oct-12 15:54:26

We can come home!! He's lost 12.5% but is an active and well baby. As he's being formula fed and topped up with expressed they've said he can go home!!

Brockle Tue 30-Oct-12 16:01:25

Brill Horsey! There is nothing like sleeping in your own bed smile

TheDetective Tue 30-Oct-12 16:06:44

Have any of you tried White noise? I'd really recommend it. Babies seem to sleep better with noise around...

blonderthanred Tue 30-Oct-12 16:24:02

I downloaded an app with white noise and other sounds last night (about 2am...) - it didn't seem to have any effect but maybe things were too fraught by then? He quite likes some classical music though. Or maybe it just makes us all calmer. Not sure.

DH trying out the sling, DS seems to like it! Fingers xed that might make life easier.

Thinking of VQ and little Jacob, hope you get to bring him back home again this evening.

StuntNun Tue 30-Oct-12 17:05:55

Blonder it won't be long before you're driving round the block over and over to get baby to sleep! That worked great with DS1, up until you tried to put him into his cot at which point he would wake up.

Catbag Tue 30-Oct-12 18:08:12

I found the most effective white noise is the hoover. With all of my kids, i've ended up sticking the hoover on so that i can eat my dinner at some point. Not very useful at three in the morning though.

As goes co-sleeping, I've done it with all of mine until they were sleeping through. I have to echo what someone else said- i curl around the baby (ies) and sleep so lightly that I wake before they do, as they are starting to surface, and have never come close to rolling on to them or otherwise squishing. That's just me though and I wouldn't like to extrapolate that up to all mothers universally. I worry more about falling asleep with them while feeding in a chair.

Had last mw visit today. Both babies are back up to and over their birth weight and Saul is closing the gap between their weights nicely. Makes the 2.5 to 3 hr feeds seem less tortuous. I've also managed to get out of the house and take the bubbas for a walk in their pushchair today. Walked the half mile into the local market town and picked up stuff for dinner from the supermarket, although have to confess to feeling quite shit by the time I'd walked the half mile uphill to get back home.

On an entirely different note, I am feckin starving. Unfortunately, dh is having a practice run at gothing both DDs up for Hallowe'en so it looks like I won't be eating anytime soon. Wouldn't mind, but I am permanently pinned to the sofa feeding babies and I can't go and get my own food sad

NervousAt20 Tue 30-Oct-12 18:10:47

Brilliant news horsey

We constantly have some kind of noise in the house either the TV or radio and my LO doesn't bat an eye lid just sleeps through touches wood

Had the health visitor today and she was lovely and helpful, answered all my questions and made me feel really good with how things are going. Baby has gained 7oz in 6 days so I feel good about bf too

ValiumQueen Tue 30-Oct-12 18:44:32

Back home. All fine. Will catch up later.

Evilwater Tue 30-Oct-12 19:06:28

Great news horsey,

I've co slept when I DS would not stop crying.
As for sleeping through the night, when does that happen? It's been three weeks and I can bearly function.

Catbag Tue 30-Oct-12 19:26:09

Glad to hear it vq

evil 3 of mine slept through from 6 weeks, but that's pretty early so I hear. The four yr old slept through from 12 weeks, and that left me feeling pretty done in, but is closer to average I think. Don't despair though- it's a gradual process andxthey will cut down themselves on feeds in the night so you'll probably only have one night feed for the last weekor two before they sleep through. Hang on in there, this doesn't last forever!

Evilwater Tue 30-Oct-12 19:42:54

Thanks catbag,
I really want one night of sleep so very badly. I just don't feel like my self, I'm just so tired all the time.

VQ I'm glad your home.

horseylady Tue 30-Oct-12 19:47:42

Im still here. I am going soon hopefully. Though the longer I'm here the yellower I think he looks and the more panic stricken I feel! What if he doesn't put the weight on?

StuntNun Tue 30-Oct-12 19:54:55

Evil my DS2 finally started reliably sleeping through the night at six years! Seriously though it will get easier, can someone else do one of the night feeds for you to give you a longer stretch of sleep?

ShellyBobbs Tue 30-Oct-12 20:03:37

Horsey, I absolutely promise you he will put on weight.

GTbaby Tue 30-Oct-12 20:20:16

Hello. I can't count the number of times I've tried to catch up on these threads lol
N I don't even have other kids or house work or cooking to do. I do have a lot of respect for u all who are doing so much.

I've been a proper cry baby today. Feel quite Alone. Despite living in a house with three other ppl sad plus a baby. Made worse by a traditional mil who insists I stay at home for 5 weeks to ensure I fully rest. (I can however go to my mums nxt week for 2 week visit). Now I understand the thought behind this, child birth is hard, woman n child should rest (n I dont have to help with chores! So that is good at least) but I quite fancy a walk around the block now sad. Least at my mums I can have all my friends visit.

Oh no. LO crying brb

Evilwater Tue 30-Oct-12 21:53:11

Horsey my LO was yellow and as long as you feed him, and pop him in some sunlight it will go.

Stunt, not really. My DP has to work, so he needs his sleep. Ill see if my parents could have him for a night.

I'm going to feed my LO so he falls asleep and then some.

blonderthanred Tue 30-Oct-12 22:11:17

Mine is a little yellow too but have just been told to make sure he gets some sunlight (think we had the curtains closed all day Mon in attempt to sleep) and to feed every 2 hrs (which is pretty much what I'm doing).

Just saw footage of newborns being evacuated from a hospital in New York and now in floods of tears. Just realised what all my friends were talking about when they said they can't watch/read anything sad about babies or children any more...

GTbaby Wed 31-Oct-12 00:46:05

LO here was also yellow. As he is on mostly formula, so quite regular feeds told to ensure he drinks every 3 hours ( was on every 4 hours). Which we did n yellow improved. We were told more he feeds more he poops more the yellow will go. grin

Last few days stopped doing the 3 hour feeds. N just feeding when he wants. n his sleep has suffered. Today went bk to 3 hour feeds. Waking him if needed. Also after feeds tried to keep him stimulated so he didn't fall straight asleep. Hoping for better sleep tonight. So far so good. But sounds like he is a little whiney ATM hoping he goes into a deep sleep soon. Fingers crossed no repeat of yesterday's 12 to 3 am wide awake baby who wanted to play n cried whenever put down.

Dh made me lol , my iron is low , taking vitamins. Dh goes out n buys me broccoli n sprouts. N what can I make with that? Rest of the shopping is basics, bread cheese ham chocolate yoghurt blush lol. Most the food cooked in house is Indian. There is no broccoli/ sprout curry lol so today to save them being thrown away I boiled them n ate with gravy. Literally a plate of veg n gravy. I know I could have jazzed it up, few tates n chicken for a mini roast. Or with rice. Or pasta. But I CBA! Lol. Lazy or what!

Can't believe I'm looking forward to my trip out to dr surgery tomorrow! It's first time in 14 days I'm leaving the house (I can leave for medical appointments. Mil is not that unreasonable ) shame I can't take LO with me! Looking forward to his first ride in his pushchair. grin.

GTbaby Wed 31-Oct-12 00:49:21

nervous I picked up a leaflet in mothercare for the castings. The company come in once a month, u book an appointment n they do it for u. Maybe call ur local branch n find out if they offer the service.

TheDetective Wed 31-Oct-12 00:52:11

GT after I had DS my food for 5 days consisted of one thing - sprouts.

It was the only vegetarian thing on the bloody dinner trolley in hospital grin

Good job I like sprouts!

horseylady Wed 31-Oct-12 03:21:34

I just wish he'd breast feed. My milks coming in, my sister went out and bought a pump which I can't seem to use. Though last night I was shattered.

I feel like a failure I really do.

Just want to speak to the community midwife today when she comes over and just go through it all with her. I just feel like I've had no support in hospital. And now I'm out and I think it's too late.

He's on 3 hourly feeds too.

Evilwater Wed 31-Oct-12 03:43:43

Horsey you are doing really well. If you want to BF the don't give up.

I felt the same when I came out of hospital, it all very over whelming and the lack of sleep makes everything x20 worse.

The thing is you are doing GREAT.

Which pump have you got? Can we help you with it?

Thechick Wed 31-Oct-12 03:58:06

I have a pump too horsey. Using it now actually as this little one has a boob preference. It's the ameda which is a bit pricy but a time saver for me as I have to do both breasts. As Evil said, everything is so much worse when you are sleep deprived.

ValiumQueen Wed 31-Oct-12 04:14:35

Hello all. horsey you can feed him. I found with my traumatic first delivery it took two days longer for my milk to come in than with the sections. Good to go over it with midwife, but sometimes they give varying advice. The basics are to keep baby on breast as much as possible and keep yourself well fed, watered and rested. The last point is hard!

I am an experienced feeder and DS is a natural. I ended up in hospital yesterday as he has not regained enough weight, and I felt like a failure. Thankfully with support and advice from a friend I was able to stay calm and give my point of view and avoided being admitted. It has really upset me though but I refuse their advice to give formula and express and measure and give via a bottle. There is no clinical need, and their advice is hardly going to increase my supply.

Breast feeding is challenging, but I still love it and hope to feed him for at least 18 months.

Jacob has had a better night. We are gonna go with the co sleeping for a while, and we slept from 12 to 3 so I feel fab. This is the first time he has slept at night since birth.

ValiumQueen Wed 31-Oct-12 04:16:50

I have a cheap avent hand pump that works fine. I plan to start pumping after he has fed so DH can feed him a bottle each evening. All expressed will go into him that night until feeding properly established.

NervousAt20 Wed 31-Oct-12 04:18:44

horsey my LO was also abit yellow and sounds like there are alot of other babies on here who were too. Don't worry about his weight you can have a MW come out each day to check his weight if your worried and that will keep a close eye on him. Sounds like you've had a very stressful time but try and relax and enjoy your little one and get the MW to keep a check on his weight. Your not a failure at all!! Hopefully the MW will give you some more support and help you feel better, there are also bf support groups that you can phone, I did and a lovey lovely lady come out to the house to talk to us and demonstrate things and it was really helpful, could you ask your MW if there is anything like that available to you?

Thank you GT ill give them a call tomorrow to find out

NervousAt20 Wed 31-Oct-12 04:19:27

In quite excited to out BabyN in her pumpkin baby grow tomorrow blush in a sad mummy I know but love it grin

rowingdowntheriver Wed 31-Oct-12 04:40:34

Not at all nervous! I remember with DS1 spending ages choosing his outfit for the day. Now with DS2 everyday it is just a plain white vest with whatever baby gro is handy over the top!

horsey, you are doing a great job. Every single day you get through at this stage is a massive achievement.

Both my DS's had mild jaundice but regular feeding and sme sunlight cured it within a couple if weeks. In the meantime MIL thought he had a 'lovely colour, not pasty like a lot of newborns' hmm.

DS seems to have settled in to a routine of feeding to about 9pm, one night feed at 1am (which DH has been doing by bottle) and one at 4am. I'm pretty happy with that for now. I think DS1 woke a lot more at this stage but then again maybe I am just remembering it to be harder as back in those days I wasn't used to being permanently sleep deprived!

PetiteRaleuse Wed 31-Oct-12 05:14:50

I think over 60% get jaundice and the most urgent cases are those that get it within 24 hours of birth. LO got it on day four and it lasted about 5 days. Bf babies get it more which is one of the reasons I supplemented. There are a few danger signs to look out for (look on nhs site) , but for the vast majority it's nothing to worry about.

LO settling into waking up twice during the night. Once for a quick feed and back to sleep, and the other time for a feed and long cuddle. So far so good though.

Re breast pumps. Over here we can rent hospital quality pumps from pharmacies. Is there any similar system over there? They make epressing faster and easier.

GTbaby Wed 31-Oct-12 07:06:46

horsey I also got little bf support after birth. N am quite angry as I feel it's the cause of LO not bf now. With one exception he won't latch on and take a full feed. He will suck for ages (30min-1 hour) but still be hungry n will have his usual formula amount. Making me think he is taking nothing from me.

I am now concentrating on pumping. I find its better to give him pumped milk during day as he will need nxt feed quicker n formula at night as he sleeps longer.
I ordered a medela swing pump a few days ago. N am using a tommee manual pump ATM.

I am annoyed about not breast feeding. But last few feeds I did from the boob resulted in both LO n i crying with frustration. So decided to give it a break for a few days. I'm trying to remember that I'm doing my best. Nothing goes to plan n if I can't ebf then it's not the end of the world.

horseylady Wed 31-Oct-12 07:09:55

Phillips advent one? Couldn't get anything off. didn't seem to suction. Any thoughts?

Vq I don't think you realise how rough they were with him after for ESP after forceps. He's like scared of my breasts and my nipples and boob shape are not conducive to breast feeding.

ValiumQueen Wed 31-Oct-12 08:21:02

What is ESP? I do not understand what you mean horsey I had ventouse and that was pretty dreadful. Her head was cone shaped and one big bruise. She was so sore. Forceps would be so much worse for your poor boy and you. I hope I have not offended or upset you at all x x

ValiumQueen Wed 31-Oct-12 08:24:21

My avent one visibly pulls your nipple and could be very sucky, so much it hurt when I first got it I could not get it to do anything and it turned out I had the valve inside out. It is like something from the Krypton Factor assembling it. I need to do that today. Oh joy.

ValiumQueen Wed 31-Oct-12 08:27:44

Do you mean that they were rough with him trying to get him to latch on? I remember one bitch of a midwife grabbing her little bruised head and baby screaming and grabbing my breast and shoving it down her throat. I am crying just thinking about that, and it was over 6 years ago. How that was meant to help I do not know.

StuntNun Wed 31-Oct-12 08:47:05

Horsey the Philips Avent has lots of parts that need to be fitted together with a good seal or you won't get a good suction. Once I sterilised mine I used to put it together while still wet from the steam so that there was a good seal between the parts even after it had dried out. Then to get the milk to flow I would need to look at the baby, relax, sigh out a big breath and imagine the sensation of the letdown reflex. It gets easier to express once you're used to doing it but if you don't letdown then the milk won't flow.

rowingdowntheriver Wed 31-Oct-12 09:44:49

Hi horsey, I was going to pm you this as I realise how emotive the subject is and I didn't want to offend anyone on here if they hold different views to myself. PM failed though (I think) so am posting here anyway.

Just to let you know you are not the only one to go through what you are going through. In fact from speaking to many of my mum friends it is pretty common.

I understand how you feel. Had exactly the same with DS1 - v traumatic delivery (with forceps that fractured his skull then EMCS). He was also a v big baby. Milk took ages to come in and when it did there never seemed to be enough for him and he'd be bobbing his head away from my breast in frustration and screaming. It was devastating and made me feel truly shit - I think I may have had mild postnatal depression from it.

Being told everyone can do it, and I am a) doing it wrong or b) just need to be patient didn't help.

What helped me was being given 'permission' by my dr, DH and midwife to top up with formula and being told that the most important thing was that he was being fed. Yep, we all know that it is the 'best' food for baby, but I really think as parents we should aim for good enough. Good enough is good enough and if giving formula may help preserve some of our mental health that will be better for baby in the end.

It can be very upsetting to not be able to breastfeeding but honestly, as your child grows you realise that there is so much more to parenting than what milk they drink in the first few weeks and months.

I hope what I've written helps in some way, I just wanted to let you know that breastfeeding is bloody hard and doesn't always work - it is not your fault or your babies. If you choose not to do it in the end, you are most definitely not a failure, you are making the right decision for you.

Rowing xx

Brockle Wed 31-Oct-12 09:57:09

You have to give yourself and Etienne time to recover Horsey not just physically but emotionally. You went through something traumatic and I totally agree with rowings post. FFing or just topping up with FF may just give you the space you and Etienne need to recover. Try giving formula and when he is calmerand you feel calmer taking him to the breast and seeing if he wants to give it a go. Also skin to skin cuddling is nice for both of you. But at the end of the day formula feeding may just be best for you and the baby. Please don't beat yourself up, you are doing so amazingly.

StuntNun Wed 31-Oct-12 10:31:21

I'm with Rowing and Brockle as well, Horsey. Please put yourself and your son above any other considerations and do what you feel is best for you both, not what you think is best for you both. You can't go wrong with maternal instinct. We are blessed in this country with so many different ways to feed our children and whichever you pick your baby will thrive. MN is a treasure trove of information and there are others on here who have been through what you're going through. They can advise and you can choose what suits best. Hugs to you and know that we're all thinking of you and are sympathetic ears if you need advice/to let of steam/or just support that you are doing the best for your baby.

ValiumQueen Wed 31-Oct-12 10:40:34

horsey remember you are his mummy. He is your baby. He knew your smell and your voice before he was even born. You are his comfort, the one he wants most. You are as linked now as you were in the womb. There is nobody in the world better able to care for him than you. You are not a failure, and it is not his fault either. I blamed my first baby for the traumatic birth and felt dreadful about it. Bonding was affected and I did get PND. I did not share how I felt with anyone at the time as I was very scared. Please do not make the same mistake I did. Please talk to someone if you need to. I wish you both healing x

rowing fractured skull must have been a dreadful experience. I am so sorry to hear you had to both go through that. Thank you for sharing your story.

DonnaDoon Wed 31-Oct-12 11:10:42

Horsey just to echo what everyone else has said you are not a failure....breastfeeding is bloody hard work I am on dc4 and feel like giving her a bottle but keep hanging on in there because I remember it being a breeze after the first month or so when everything settles down smile

horseylady Wed 31-Oct-12 11:11:38

Vq rough handling him and me trying to get him onto the breast. His jaw was so bruised I just don't understand how they couldn't see that. I wish I had (then and now) the energy to fight but I haven't. I know that I can make it through each day. That's currently all I can offer.

My cousin is coming over now to help with the pumping.

Well be ok. Were both recovering. I didn't know labour would be as it was, I didn't know the after care would be as it was.

It's so true that no one can you prepare for anything to do with children. I question everything.

Rowing I've tried to reply but thank you everyone x

ValiumQueen Wed 31-Oct-12 11:29:30

horsey that is so wrong that you had that rough treatment. I remember taking one feed at a time, and giving myself the choice. I chose to feed each time but feeling I had the choice helped. Even this time I have one bottle of formula in the house just in case. I understand the feeling of wanting to fight but not having the energy. Big hug to you and your beautiful boy x

ShellyBobbs Wed 31-Oct-12 12:04:13

Horsey one day at a time is brilliant, do it one hour at a time if you need to. Babies are bloody hard work and there is NOTHING more emotionally challenging than them. The first child is a shock to the system, you have no frame of reference at all. You will get through this, but it takes time. Sleep deprevation is a fucker and will put it's black mark on every decision too.

Good luck and stay well Horsey, we are all here for you.

GT A few sneaky walks with mother maybe? Mums and tots and all the baby clubs will be a lifeline soon smile

ValiumQueen Wed 31-Oct-12 12:20:25

DH wondered if I wanted to go to the supermarket today to do a big shop. He has not passed his test yet, so I have to go with him. I said no! Reminding him I had major surgery, and a baby 6 days ago! Bless him grin

horseylady Wed 31-Oct-12 13:31:17

Mw been - wonderful.

Cousin been - I can express.

I'm seeing the feeding specialist Monday but have to get him settled near my breast.

So lots of skin to skin etc baths and just keeping him settled. it'll either work or not work. I'm so full of milk though!!! Nearly 40ml off both breasts first attempt

Brockle Wed 31-Oct-12 13:38:04

Brill news horsey grin You do start to feel like a dairy machine when you get expressing smile Enjoy all that skin to skin (really jealous cos that is my favourite bit!)

StuntNun Wed 31-Oct-12 13:49:32

That's such a relief Horsey I'm glad to hear some improvement. The first weeks with any newborn are tough, even if there aren't any problems. Taking one day at a time is ideal. By six weeks in you'll have everything going smoothly, be getting a bit more sleep and be much happier.

GTbaby Wed 31-Oct-12 14:08:14

Fil drove me to my dr appointment so no walk sad. 5 days till I go to my mums!
No opportunity for sneaky walks shelly sad the houses r to close together n mil might see me. Lol am I a teenager? Even teenagers have more freedom then I do! Sucks.

My stitches r still sore. But my pain relief has run out. Any recommendations of what I can take?

GTbaby Wed 31-Oct-12 14:17:37

horsey that is great! Ur lucky u have access to a specialist.
40ml is amazing! I got 10 first go. However depending on time of day u pump the amount will change. So don't be upset if it goes down.
I've had as little as 10ml n as much as 90ml ! Average is about 40ml. But I keep reminding myself something is better then nothing.

PetiteRaleuse Wed 31-Oct-12 14:18:06

Well done Horsey - 40ml is great so early on. Keep postingwhen you feel down.

I've reduced my painkiller dosage today, and the steri strips came off my scar yesterday. The wound isn't completely healed, but it's getting there. Hoping to start driving at the weekend before DH goes back to work.

That will be just over 2 weeks post op, but we live right out in the sticks. DH's car is an automatic so I think I would use that.. Anyone got any pearls of wisdom on driving post sesction? Am I nuts thinking I will be able to drive by then?

GTbaby Wed 31-Oct-12 14:21:44

nervous the casting company is www.memorymakers.co.uk inprints cost £67. I'm sure there are other companies out there. And home kits. Which r cheaper. But for the moment I'm going with easiest option.

PetiteRaleuse Wed 31-Oct-12 14:22:30

GT I hope you are OK , it sounds like you are in an uncomfortable situation with your mil. Are you in the uk? Hang on in there til you get to your mum's. Staying in all the time won't be good for your mood.

blonderthanred Wed 31-Oct-12 15:10:46

It is amazing how emotional the experience of bf is. Whenever DS struggles to latch on (he does that desperate side-to-side head thing) I feel so awful and inadequate and because I can't see how much he takes I'm permanently worried it's not enough. When the mw wanted to see him latch I was so anxious for him to do it 'right' even though I know they are there to help. And that is without the trauma you have been through Horsey so I think you are doing amazingly.

GT I have just realised I only have 2 co-dydramol left so I am a bit concerned too. I guess I will have to move on to paracetamol unless anyone has any suggestions? I can really feel it towards the time I am due the next dose. The mw is due by 5 and will take out my stitches so I'll ask her and report back.

ValiumQueen Wed 31-Oct-12 16:20:29

Codydramol? How come you got that? (Jealous) all I have had is pcm and brufen. That should be more than enough for blonder and GT.

I had clips out yesterday and no wound pain but still get stabs from tubal ligation.

With driving have a practice on the sofa of the moves you would need to do for an emergency stop. If no twinges try in car in quiet place at low speed. Important to check with insurance first.

PetiteRaleuse Wed 31-Oct-12 17:42:36

Jealous of all your lovely pain med cocktails. Just pcm here coz of allergy to antiinflammatories.

I need to call the insurance on Friday -bank holiday here tomorrow.

blonderthanred Wed 31-Oct-12 18:10:05

Stitches out, she said paracetamol should be enough from now. I shall count my blessings I had the codydramol until now! I also have some diclofenac (sp?) which is quite trippy.

Baby has lost weight, in fact about 11% so my heart was in my mouth but she said they would check again on day 10 so I was clearly lucky to have a sensible mw & was very appreciative after what VQ went through.

Just had trick or treaters at the door, I said sorry I don't have any treats but I did have a newborn baby in a cute outfit so that would have to be their treat. They seemed quite happy with this!

rowingdowntheriver Wed 31-Oct-12 18:28:34

We've had the trick or treaters round too, for the first time ever I was organised and have a big bowl full of celebrations. Only problem is that now they are open I can't stop eating them.

I'm on diclofenac and paracetamol. I love the diclofenac but its going to run out tomorrow. Is ibroprofen ok when breastfeeding? If it is, I'll start taking that.

Luckily I had disolvable stitches so don't have to worry about them being removed. My scar does hurt though, it stings quite a bit and feels a little bruised. Looks ok though so don't think it is infected.

rowingdowntheriver Wed 31-Oct-12 18:30:19

Oh, and GT, I think I'd go crazy if I wasn't allowed out of the house! What does your husband think about it?

ValiumQueen Wed 31-Oct-12 18:37:48

Blonder I am glad you did not have that worry. I find that heartening that they are not worried. No harm in having Brufen too. Diclofenac would have been great initially, but I think would be overkill now possibly. My soreness appears to be due to the sterilisation mostly.

DS has been feeding well, but just now his fontanelle seemed sunken, but I think it was just positional as is fine now. Got me panicking and googling. Convinced myself he has CF, but his bloods were fine so clearly there is not a major malabsorption problem. I was really enjoying him, and now I just seem to be a nervous wreck. I know they have our best interest at heart.

I think I do have a chest infection. Will see Dr tomorrow.

ValiumQueen Wed 31-Oct-12 18:38:58

rowing Brufen is safe when feeding.

StuntNun Wed 31-Oct-12 18:46:24

Ibuprofen is not only safe when breastfeeding but only minimal quantities pass into your milk. As soon as I've had the baby I'll be starting it for my slipped disc and bursitis.

rowingdowntheriver Wed 31-Oct-12 18:47:02

Thanks valium, I'll get on that tomorrow. Sorry to hear you've got a chest infection. Difficult to have to deal with that right now.

rowingdowntheriver Wed 31-Oct-12 18:48:08

You've got a slipped disc stunt? That must be agony.

blonderthanred Wed 31-Oct-12 18:51:06

(whispers) Brufen is the same as Ibuprofen right?

Sorry your confidence has been knocked a bit VQ. You are clearly doing a great job and you are so helpful to many of us. If they find fault again I think you need to tell them you are a big deal on MN wink

ValiumQueen Wed 31-Oct-12 18:59:05

Thank you blonder smile. Yes Brufen is the same as ibuprofen and many other expensive brand names too.

Evilwater Wed 31-Oct-12 19:34:48

Quick question ladies,
I have this tingling mixed with pain in one of my boobs bad I can't get any milk out. what is this?

Also my son is 7,8 today.

PetiteRaleuse Wed 31-Oct-12 20:27:05

Google is both our best friend and enemy. I sent myself scared shitless about spina bifida last week thanks to google. LO has a sacral dimple, and they didn't point it out at the hospital.

I was going to get her weighed this week as she lost 10% in her first three days before leaving hospital but the jaundice cleared up and there's a bank holiday tomorrow and getting a non urgent appointment is impossible. I figure she looks healthy, is eating well so I'll leave it til after the weekend.

DD1 is puking however, I hope it's not contagious. I don't want a vomiting bug with my section scar, and of course Gastro stuff is bad for newborns...

PetiteRaleuse Wed 31-Oct-12 20:29:17

Evil, could you have a blocked duct? Is there a hard area which is more painful? If so try massaging it under the shower. It might help.

NervousAt20 Wed 31-Oct-12 20:41:35

Thanks GT that's the company that go into mothercare once a month and do them there so we've booked an appointment and lucky it's this Saturday

horsey glad your getting some support, be easy on yourself and take each feed as it comes and do what's best for you and your son

RE painkillers I take 1 or 2 paracetamol sometimes in the morning but touchwood I haven't really needed anything more

We've had trick or treaters tonight, it's lovely to see all the little kids dressed up on Halloween

Just feeding LO then bedtime for me, the night feeds are so hard to get up out of a warm bed for

NervousAt20 Wed 31-Oct-12 20:44:29

Also what's all your views on drinking alchol whilst bf? I don't want to drink yet but would like to be able to have 1 or 2 over Xmas but when I asked the health visitor she saidthat if I decided to have a drink I would need to express enough milk for LO to feed and then express and throw away all my milk for 24hrs after drinking??

Evilwater Wed 31-Oct-12 20:48:00

My breast is very soft, and not lumpy.

StuntNun Wed 31-Oct-12 20:55:04

You have been misinformed Nervous. If you drink alcohol then it does pass in to your breastmilk, however it leaves your milk at the same rate as it leaves your blood i.e. your liver processes each unit of alcohol in 1-2 hours. This only holds true for low levels of consumption, obviously if you go on a bender then it can take longer for the alcohol to leave your system. So if you have a small glass of wine containing two units of alcohol then by three or four hours later there won't be anything left in your milk. If you are concerned, e.g. you had two glasses of wine then you might have to offer a bottle of previously expressed or formula milk but you don't have to do the 'pump and dump' that used to be recommended. Unless you need to express because your breasts are engorged or you are trying to build up your supply then you may decide to express some milk and dump it because it may contain alcohol. Hope this all makes sense!

NervousAt20 Wed 31-Oct-12 21:06:00

Thanks stunt it does make sense. I really didn't want to have to throw all that milk away and if I did decide to have a drink it would only be 1 as I would still want/need to do night feeds and pick up DD ect

StuntNun Wed 31-Oct-12 21:25:30

The guidance changes all the time. My mum is a HV and she reckons some of her colleagues don't always keep up with the latest advice. I was glad to hear about the new guidance for alcohol and breastfeeding though with this baby being so close to Christmas! When I had my last two babies the advice was to throw the milk away which is an awful thing to do when you've gone to all the effort of making and pumping it! So I'll be able to have my traditional Buck's Fizz on Christmas Day.

GTbaby Wed 31-Oct-12 21:47:08

I live in west London to whoever asked. Very difficult to be at home. DH is a little split in his thoughts about it. He also understands its for my benefit so that I rest. He is super helpful around the house etc. but he kinda gets that I'm going stir crazy. But he doesn't understand my feeling lonely. As there r ppl here n he is here. N my mum comes to visit. Hard for him to understand cos he is a stupid man n they don't get things.

Oh well. I'm gona start blubbing again so let's leave that topic for now. Oh dear to late.

On another note. How can I miss my milk coming in? Is it possible it hasn't come in? LO is now 15days old. I express twice a day. At first it was quite yellow. N now it's whiter. My pre period boob ach can be quite sore. But I've not really felt anything like that hmm. A little confused.

horseylady Wed 31-Oct-12 23:11:29

Can I ask those of you expressing how long do you do it for? Until the breast is empty? In which case how do you know when it's empty?

It's just constantly running out of me? I know it's day one of my milk coming in but I can't stay attached to the pump?!

blonderthanred Wed 31-Oct-12 23:18:28

That's interesting Stunt and good to know!

GT I was wondering the same thing, I thought the milk coming in would be more dramatic with rock hard breasts, despondence and projectile lactating but all I've had is a bit of lumpiness and a few tears during the News. However DS definitely has a milky mouth after feeding and has done a few milky burps so I think mine is more gradual.

GTbaby Thu 01-Nov-12 00:28:36

horsy i am well jel! lol wink how much have you expressed today?
maybe freeze some? i think maybe i express for 20 mins? only managed twice today. hoping with my electric pump will be more efficient n need to build a routine to do it more often. again how i managed to do "not a lot" i have no idea!

had a bit of a spat with DH sad i think me being emotional is getting to him, as he feels he is being really good with helping out. he asks me what is wrong, but i have no answer because i have no idea why i am crying half the time! i have said this to him before n explained sometimes i am just emotional and all i need is a hug. but he just complained saying he couldnt help if he didnt know what was wrong blha blha blha, but i wasnt in a state to explain myself. so have just come down to get away from him. now all i want to do is eat. but there are no nice things in the kitchen sad fancy a McD cheese burger.

on a brighter note weighed myself today, have lost 7 of the 10 kg i put on since my booking in appointment. so to get back to my ideal weight i need to loose a further 10kg blush but thinking i might wait 6 weeks to go on a diet/exercise as its a little to soon to be worried about how i look [who am i kidding! yes i am crazy] . think im going to find something to watch in bed on net flicks now.

horseylady Thu 01-Nov-12 00:46:36

So far about 120 to 140ml? that's expressing at 12, 5 and 10 about to start again at 1 but each time it's a good hour? Then my breasts are still heavy? I think I could just pump none stop!!

Also he sleeps all day long. Then at 10pm he's wide awake, settles, lies down, frets, screams so I cuddle him, he settles etc. Think he just wants to comfort but why doesn't he do this in the day? Maybe it's not proper sleep when he settles but contentment.

horseylady Thu 01-Nov-12 00:47:55

But proper sleep in the day? Who knows? How do alter his night times and day times or will that just come?

ValiumQueen Thu 01-Nov-12 01:03:20

horsey babies wake at night due to milk producing hormones being higher then. Once supply is established and he is more interactive, he will wake more in the day and less at night. He is likely to feed most in the evening thus getting food on board for longer sleeps. Sounds to me as if you are msakimg excellent progress.

horseylady Thu 01-Nov-12 01:28:35

Oh ok so I'm milking myself like a cow for good reason!!!

He's done it from the start just wondered what the reason was. How long does this period take then?

ValiumQueen Thu 01-Nov-12 01:40:23

I don't know exactly but for mine it has been about 7 to 10 days. DS has already changed his pattern. They still feed at night, but not feeding all night.

DS slept 9.30 to 12.30.

rowingdowntheriver Thu 01-Nov-12 03:43:14

The day / night thing does fix itself but I think as to when must depend on the baby. For DS1 it took a bit longer, but DS2 seemed to figure it out by the 4th night.

I have heard that by exposing the baby to daylight as much as possible during the day can help them learn faster also being noisy in the day and quiet at night (with no lights on during the feeds) can help.

GT, I've been thinking of you. I'm not surprised you are emotional - as if having a new baby and a body full of hormones isn't enough, you are having to deal with a very difficult situation with your MIL and her thoughts of what is best for you and now a DH who doesn't understand how best to react to your emotions.

horseylady Thu 01-Nov-12 05:55:50

He just screamed from 10 till about 4 every time he was out down.

Eventually swaddled him as they did in the hospital and he slept/is still sleeping so perhaps we should swaddle him after his night feed. He fed loads last night though? So perhaps it's a growth spurt? I'm now up pumping again as boobs are burning hot.

GTbaby Thu 01-Nov-12 06:09:42

Same as rowing day feeds r interactive, lots of talking and music. Night feeds quiet And dark. I had wide awake time 12 to 3 for quite some time. Cos he is Ff he wasn't constantly feeding but he was wide awake n seeking attention. Since Making an effort to feed regularly during day n stimulation it is slowly getting better.

rowing 4 more days till I'm at my mums! grin. Nxt 2 days will b hard. No one is coming over. But think ill indulge in some me time in bed catching up on tv. Weekend will b busy. DH bday on Sunday. Then off to my mums. Where I will b pampered, can have hour long baths, have all my fav foods cooked for me, my sister n dad also have time off. My best friend can come over. N when DH comes to visit it will b proper together time. Not just say in the same room kinda thing. Really looking forward to it grin.

Right. Sleep time. smile

blonderthanred Thu 01-Nov-12 10:10:04

Mw just called as she has spoken to a colleague and as L has lost more than 10% bodyweight they want me to top up w formula. Said I'd rather wait as milk only just coming in so they are coming back to weigh him again tomorrow.

Looked down and big wet circle on nightie so hoping this bodes well. I'm going to do some expressing today to encourage it and so if they do want me to top up then I can try an extra feed of my own first.

NervousAt20 Thu 01-Nov-12 10:34:58

We had quite a good night here last night prays I haven't jinxed it for tonight LO went between 2and a half to 3 hours between each feed smile

Might try and get some of our photos printed off today but its raining and not ment to be so If it doesn't stop I won't be venturing out

blonder have you got a breast pump? I hope your LO manages to put some weight on soon x

NervousAt20 Thu 01-Nov-12 10:56:02

Does anyone know how much you can express without taking all your milk? I worry if I take to much there won't be enough left for LO to feed

blonderthanred Thu 01-Nov-12 11:14:59

I was going to express after a feed so milk has started to flow and then keep going until I get a reasonable amount.

I thought expressing was meant to encourage more to come so it shouldn't be a problem though.

PetiteRaleuse Thu 01-Nov-12 11:17:35

You will in theory produce more milk the more is needed, so the more the baby suckles and the more you express should have a good effect on the amount you produce.

blonderthanred Thu 01-Nov-12 11:17:46

Oh also I've got a TT manual but will invest in a swing or Avent if it looks like I'm going to be expressing a lot.

Luckily he was 8lbs at birth so he's still a reasonable weight and looks very well (in fact perfect and beautiful!)

daisychain76 Thu 01-Nov-12 11:27:54

I think if you expressed a lot then tried to feed straight after might be an issue, but if you do it after feeding it will stimulate more supply. Hope your Dd1 is ok pr . blonder leaks is a good sign. Don‘t worry if u do have to top up with formula a bit ~ with Ds1 he had bf then expressed then formula fora week or so but was fine on just bf after. Hope you have good days today horsey and gt. Don‘t know if that‘s everyone. So tired today my brain is very fuzzy. Got DN‘s birthdayvparty this afternoon but all l want to do is slump on a sofa and sleep/eat.

Oh and l had 14 lots of trick and treaters last night. Surely that is a record. Went through 2 bags of lollies, 2 bags of haribos and all Dhs stash of chocolate .

horseylady Thu 01-Nov-12 11:35:50

I need to be stricter with myself expressing but it takes an hour a time!!

Hoping a breast feeding person will call me back soon too.

Expressed breast better than all formula though?

ShellyBobbs Thu 01-Nov-12 11:50:58

OMG, what is it with all this top up on formula rubbish! I actually can't believe it. If ANYONE tells me to top up with formula I will physically pick them up and throw them out of my house. A chart and a pen is all very fine, but it's you ladies that change the wet nappies and sit there for hours feeding your babies. I can understand that some have lost quite a bit of weight, but if they are feeding and having wet nappies then in my opinion they are really adding pressure to a huge pressure cooker. I accept that some babies do need a top up, but just read how many have already been advised this, this has got to be WAY over the norm. And they say Britain is shit for breast feeding rates, well I'm not surprised reading this thread.

Trust yourselves, this is the little person you have been growing for nearly a year, you know them better than ANYONE else and they know you better than anyone. If you're unsure of any advise you're given, get a second opinion, it's your right.

Sorry for the rant, but it's getting on my tits!

ValiumQueen Thu 01-Nov-12 12:00:44

horsey expressed breast is better than formula most definately. He is your baby and your body provides the perfect mix for him. It contains all your lovely antibodies and will be thinner if hotter weather, more concentrated if cold weather etc etc.

DS has put on 40g so the Gestapo are happy for the moment. To be weighed again on Saturday. I am refusing to give formula, I am refusing to express to measure to give via bottle. Awaiting bottle brush so I can commence expressing, so I can top up with bf if they insist on it. I will express about 10mls from each breast prior to a feed, and once he has finished, I will get what I can off them.

I am sorry they got back to you blonder I thought you were going to be spared this stress.

I wish they would look at the baby and the mother rather than obsessing on the numbers. Would a dehydrated malnourished baby feed happily for 1hour, with no fretting, then sleep peacefully for three? This is the pattern he seems to be falling into including overnight, just with the cluster feeding late afternoon and evening. I got about 5 hours sleep last night in two stretches so I am happy with that. Also, I had a section, and have two older children including a 2yo. I do not have the luxury of going back to bed. They were up at 5.30 this morning.

Clearly I need more chocolate!

ValiumQueen Thu 01-Nov-12 12:10:35

Completely agree shelly. I am furious. I know some mums feel formula has helped them to continue breast feeding, and that is great, but when you feel as strongly about bf as I do and put every ounce of my energy into doing it, then being told to top up with formula with absolutely no clinical signs it is needed, really upsets me. If my child needed formula then I would happily give it, but there is no need, and he is fine and dandy.

I have been so tearful over this, and it has brought back bad memories of my first child's birth and first weeks.

Today she said 'is he feeding better then?' And I said there has never been any problem with his feeding. She asked me what my plan was, and I said to demand feed. But you must be waking him up every so long? I said no, that would not be demand feeding. He knows what he needs, and if I try to wake him when he is not hungry, he will not feed, but get overtired, which will affect his weight gain negatively.

I hope everyone is well.

Tired, tired, tired! So glad my mum is here helping, we need all the hands we can get. These babies have 3 adults running around after them and it is hard work! Am using resuables on them completely now and their bots look lush in them!

I am going in for surgery soon to have my gall bladder removed. Ended up in A&E last week on a morphine drip because the pain was so bad. Cannot wait to have it removed. Consultant has marked me as urgent because of the babies and I should have the surgery in the next 5 weeks.

On a positive note, the girls are getting into a good routine now. They feed at 10pm, 2am & 6am. Georgie is a great sleeper and I have to wake her at 2:30am for her feed, she will definitely sleep through the night before her sister does.

I am becoming a pro at doing things one handed. Feeding one baby and sticking the dummy in the other ones mouth. I have even mastered how to pick both of them up at the same time!

I just don't have the time to read all the posts (my life will never be the same again!) I hope everyone is well and enjoying their lovely babies smile

Brockle Thu 01-Nov-12 12:24:39

I wonder whether there is some change in policy on the 10% weight loss issue and topping up with formula. Its totally stupid to make a judgement call and then call you back to say "no I was wrong top up". I never remember with DS1 or DS2 somebody telling me the % of weight he had lost and weighing every five minutes.

I totally agree with formula top ups as I think it does help get BFing established and take the pressure off but only if you want to and feel it will help.

Its useful to know I need to be ready for this when I have DS3 but it is just another thingto stress about. Maybe I will put a sign on the door: "if he is happy, has wet nappies and looks healthy then you will be ignored when you talk about %'s". I think I will get it laminated..

Have put some photos of my munchkins up on my profile if anyone wants a peek.

ValiumQueen Thu 01-Nov-12 12:47:47

pixies they are adorable. Well done on the washables.

brockle what would happen if we refused weighing? They do not weigh ff babies apparently.

Brockle Thu 01-Nov-12 12:59:50

Funny that VQ. The strange thing is that when you are signed off by the MWs I don't think there is any requirement for you to have to get your baby weighed at the HV sessions. I did with both of mine but I don't think I will if I am happy with how DS3 is progressing.

It just seems totally incomprehensible to me that you can have a baby that is feeding well, that you are confident feeding, that is producing wet nappies and does not look unwell but a test out of the scales produces a "computer says no" response. DS1 was a slow grower and is and always has been slim and gangly. If I had him now I think I would have encountered problems. DS2 was a 9lber but I don't necessarily think that 9lbers continue at the pace they grew in the womb. DS2 certainly didn't. He was always a bigger boy than DS1 but dropped a percentile.

You should not get me started on this!!

I shall bugger off and allow you lovely ladies to cuddle your newborns in peace but just wanted to say that I think you are all doing a brill job. In 2 to 4 weeks I shall hopefully be on this side (but much more likely to be a blubbering mess)

TheDetective Thu 01-Nov-12 13:00:00

I refer you to my birth plan grin

"I consent to my baby being weighed at day 10-14, and not prior provided there are no feeding concerns."

You are entitled to refuse whatever aspect of the service offered you wish. You do not have to justify yourself.

VQ AFAIK they do still weigh FF babies. Depends on area as usual I guess! Most standard weighing policies now are weigh at birth, day 3 only if feeding issues, premature, low birth weight, or other 'risk factors'. Then weigh day 5/6. And weigh again day 10-14. For all babies.

You can see my feelings grin

horseylady Thu 01-Nov-12 13:04:03

My mw has just said the same thing to me. She said they obsess over numbers, don't look at the baby or mother and she said just try to relax. Thing is your told feed x amount so you want to do that.

I guess second baby onwards you trust yourself more. Mw told me off for looking washed out said take more iron.

Breast support lady coming at 2pm to see what we can do.

ValiumQueen Thu 01-Nov-12 13:07:26

Perhaps I should have written a birth plan after all grin

When she said she was going to weigh him, I said, oh good, I am curious to see how much he weighs now as he is such a good feeder! That just shows how confident I was in our feeding. I need to get back to that way of thinking. It coincided with the 'baby blues' which were a bit late coming on, plus being fecking knackered after 5 nights of constant feeding.

Thank you ladies, it really helps to be able to talk about things smile

ValiumQueen Thu 01-Nov-12 13:10:43

Good you have a sensible one horsey hopefully you can keep seeing her, and if someone else turns up saying different, then refuse to see anyone else. You are sounding more peaceful and hopeful, and I am so pleased.

horseylady Thu 01-Nov-12 13:35:46

I'm shattered I feel out of sorts but the blues are passing. I need to eat. I've not been eating but I'm getting a bit stressed by feeding. Look after self look after baby!!

Saying all that he's fast off in my arms looking gorgeous and every precious second like this is so worth it!!!!

ValiumQueen Thu 01-Nov-12 13:41:57

Yes horsey you have to be eating, and possibly a lot more than you would prefer to as bfing takes a huge amount of calories, and goodness from your quota. And drinking loads too. And resting.

ShellyBobbs Thu 01-Nov-12 13:47:18

Valium It's absolutely disgraceful isn't it? Fancy saying that about his feeding! You see, you and I are experienced feeders, we have already gone through the ups and downs of most things that can be thrown at us breast feeding wise and so we should definitely have the confidence to know exactly what we are doing. Yet your confidence was knocked because your son doesn't fit nicely on the little chart, understandably with just giving birth - but imagine being new to it all! It really makes me furious! I too am passionate about breast feeding.

I just wanted to post before because there will be, and are mums on here doubting themselves when there is absolutely no reason too. We are designed after birth to sit on our arses and do nothing but feed our babies, this is what we have been doing for thousands of years, it helps us to heal and gives the baby everything that they need. It IS NOT unusual to sit on the settee ALL DAY just feeding the baby and for the baby to be suckling the whole time. It's what is supposed to happen.

It should be YOUR choice to top up or use formula if you feel you need it, it's not wrong to do it, but it is wrong to be pressured into doing it for NO GOOD REASON! I did with my second from about 5 months and he settled much better. Again I'm not saying that some babies don't need the top up and some mums do struggle to produce milk, but there is absolutely NO WAY that all the people on this thread that have been told to top up need to, NO WAY at all!

Anyway, thought I'd give you a view from the 'pregnancy hormone' side and not the foggy headed 'oh shit am I doing this right' side.

Brockle Sounds like you've nailed it grin Off to look at your brood now.

ShellyBobbs Thu 01-Nov-12 13:48:01

And my second and third never got weighed at clinic, I never took them grin

ShellyBobbs Thu 01-Nov-12 13:49:57

Can you shove a butty in whilst feeding Horsey? I used to get a little feast next to me and eat when the baba's ate. It used to be all lined up ready on the settee next to me.

ShellyBobbs Thu 01-Nov-12 13:52:24

Garden, not Brockle. See, baby brain.......

TheDetective Thu 01-Nov-12 13:53:13

Amen Shelly!

ShellyBobbs Thu 01-Nov-12 14:03:44

<Get's off soap box to look at Garden's twins>

Thechick Thu 01-Nov-12 14:16:28

Anyone got any advice on stopping the bottles completely. My little one was born at 34 weeks and was initially on a tube through his nose then bottles from birth. He is now 3 and a half weeks and takes the breast and bottles well. I want to exclusively bf but I don't want him to be hungry until my supply is where to should be. He is ff mixed with ebm.

TheDetective Thu 01-Nov-12 14:27:02

I'd just go cold turkey chick and see how it goes - only topping up if you feel it is necessary.

Just put him on the breast first at every feed, and remember that he won't feed to a routine, just offer the breast at every sign he is hungry. That will increase your supply.

If you are worried you can of course continue to express, which will again increase your supply, but do it after a feed.

It is trial and error!

NervousAt20 Thu 01-Nov-12 14:50:15

garden your girls look beautiful

ValiumQueen Thu 01-Nov-12 15:11:43

chick I think it is worth giving the odd bottle of expressed, then it means you can go out for the day if necessary. You do not want baby to completely lose the skill. It is worth having a couple of bottles in the freezer in case you are unwell or called on an emergency.

When I struggle with feeding, which happens even with third babies as it is hard work, I think of my grandma 79 years ago, who fed triplets, all premmies, my dad being the smallest. She was told to let the little one go and concentrate on the other two. She gave him extra feeds. If she can do that, I can feed a healthy term singleton.

I managed a conversation with MIL today who had called asking how the weigh-in had gone. She is very anti bf, but she did not say anything other than kind supportive things. She has finally learned grin

My boy is out for a walk in his pram with a very proud daddy. The school run. What an ordeal for a 7 day old baby. I miss him! (The baby, not the daddy!). He is all registered, child benefit claim put in etc.

My boss wants me to go into work next week for a meeting. He knows I have just had a baby via section. Any suggestions as to how I should word my reply?

TheDetective Thu 01-Nov-12 15:23:27

Rearrange as required.

Off fuck.

HTH grin

Catbag Thu 01-Nov-12 15:57:11

Oh detective, i do enjoy your advice grin

ValiumQueen Thu 01-Nov-12 16:04:57

How would you interpret 'paternal leave'? Is it a holiday for DH to do what the fuck he wants, or is it time off so he can support his wife with caring for the newborn, helping with the housework, looking after the other kids, possibly even looking after his wife as she recovers from a major op? Or playing with ducking computer games while DW does everything else?

No particular reason for asking angry as my husband would never be so bloody selfish. Or so I thought.

ValiumQueen Thu 01-Nov-12 16:05:50

Ducking computer games. Clearly I meant FUCKING! grin

TheDetective Thu 01-Nov-12 16:10:32

I remember once going to the fuse box and turning all the electric in the house off.

I seem to also remember that the 4 hours of 'work' DP had been doing on his 'computer' also died at the same time.


Just a musing really....

Thechick Thu 01-Nov-12 16:18:40

I'm so done with all the washing of the bottles and the sterilising of the bottles and all the extra stuff that comes with bottle feeding. Its all too much especially at night time. He's only started taking the breast properly recently so I kind of want to run with it. And I really haven't got the time to express as much as I would like.

I had such plans for today, was going to put the pram together, do LOADS of washing sort out Holden's room, put up the cot bed, decide on a sling and buy Holden a coat. I've done nothing apart from Holden's clothes and he's wearing the last baby gro that fits him, so had to really. I have others but they will be huge on him.

Thechick Thu 01-Nov-12 16:31:31

Think I was being a bit optimistic.

NervousAt20 Thu 01-Nov-12 16:42:41

Changed baby's nappy and her poo seemed quite liquidy and runny, should I worry?

ValiumQueen Thu 01-Nov-12 16:48:29

chick by saying the odd bottle, I meant a couple of bottles a week. I hate the sterilising, but apparently with bm you do not need to sterilise. I always did though.

DH also took baby out without the raincover for the pushchair. We live in Scotland. It is November. He took his coat off so baby was fine, but he was drenched. Cue man flu. No doubt.

TheDetective Thu 01-Nov-12 16:49:59

I've carefully folded both the car seat raincover and pram raincover in the basket under the pram. I hope to god DP can't forget to take them. But he probably will..... I have low expectations grin

StuntNun Thu 01-Nov-12 16:53:05

Sorry too tired to read all your posts but please don't get pressured into topping up with formula unless you are convinced by the health professional not because of some arbitrary 10% rule. Most women produce enough milk for their baby; if a mother can exclusively bf twins then you can produce enough milk for your singleton. I really hate all this pressure that is applied to vulnerable women in the first few days after birth. You need to look at the health of your baby first and foremost. Please remember it is your decision how you feed your baby and noone else can force you to do different. Also remember that babies are supposed to lose weight in the first days after birth, that's why they are born with fat reserves.

ValiumQueen Thu 01-Nov-12 16:59:08

Nervous is she bf or ff? If bf, then that is fine, if ff I haven't a clue. How is she in herself?

chick possibly a bit optimistic. DS has been in 3-6 clothes as I ran out. It is amazing how much washing they produce. He is getting through the gro bags too. I washed 4 and used all 4 in one night with two leaky nappies (bloody Huggies, now in washables) and two milk dribbles (fussy mummy).

Am loving the washables and gro bags.

NervousAt20 Thu 01-Nov-12 17:26:21

valium she is BF and she seems normal, has slept abit longer then normal past one of her feeds but we were in the car and she tends to sleep constantly when were in that

DonnaDoon Thu 01-Nov-12 17:57:28

Shelly re your comments on pg 16 Thankyou so much for them because considering this is dc4 but she was she was born early I have felt so pressured re her weight because she is putting it on slowly ...the midwife is coming again tomorrow to weigh her because she still wasnt her birth weight last friday and Im cacking that she might still be and pound or two off tomorrow but she is getting there at her own pace and im continueing to bf ....I too was astonished that they wouldnt let us leave hospital until she had 2 bottles which she only had 20ml of formula and chucked it straight up bless her...but the fact that her weight has been slow to put on but she is a very happy baby tells me not to top with formula...so in other words i wish my midwife would just discharge her tomoorow and piss off because she has stressed me out and dd will be 4wks old on sunday. rant over and thanks again shelly.

horseylady Thu 01-Nov-12 18:26:39

So I have a rare baby. He does all the right moves our positioning is correct, he just will no latch on and then screams blue murder.

Gutted doesn't even come close. I have things to try etc but she basically said don't get your hopes up. Keep expressing it's good for him.

Feeling very anxious tonight, but think I'm over tired but can't nap in the day my brain goes into over drive. I know I'm being stupid, I'm just so disappointed but the lady was lovely and basically said you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. Dh then informs me he was exactly the same so his mum had the same issues.

Need to lower my pulse rate and calm down. I can do no more than I'm doing apart from sit and feed my baby and not feel bad for sleeping. It's so hard when I'm used to doing so much.

Right might have another good howl while dh goes out!!

blonderthanred Thu 01-Nov-12 18:38:19

Horsey sorry if I've missed this but he has been checked for tongue tie?

horseylady Thu 01-Nov-12 18:48:34

Tongue is fine. There's no reason other than I think my milk doesn't come out instantly when he's by my breast. Guess that's having a bottle early. Who knows, we may get it established, I need to think that it may not for my own sanity.

Anyway expressing as much as possible to feed him breast milk. Other feeds he'll need formula until I can match his needs. So he may be bottle fed but as much breast milk as possible and continuing skin to skin. How long this will last for I don't know.

ValiumQueen Thu 01-Nov-12 19:08:57

Oh horsey I am so sorry to hear that. That must be very upsetting, and hopefully things will improve, but it seems sensible to prepare yourself for a long and meaningful relationship with a pump. Interesting DH had the same thing. Hopefully this shows you it is not your fault, and it is not his. Take comfort that you can still feed him your goodness, but it is a shame it has to go through a bottle. I know it will be cold comfort, but a friend of mine who fed her first three children had a major motorbike accident and burnt her breast tissue and nipples off. She had another child and the milk came in what was left of her breast, and she was gutted as she could not get it out. She had accepted she could not feed, but had not expected milk. I wish you both all the very best.

horseylady Thu 01-Nov-12 19:17:01

Vq he mews and nuzzels around my breast opens his mouth and screams!!! Were lying here now, he's not hungry as only just fed but were doing skin to skin and he just repeats the cycle. I'm worried he's not as full after breast milk but were giving him slightly more than formula however he could just be repeating last nights performance but earlier!! Which would be ok!!

ValiumQueen Thu 01-Nov-12 19:43:37

So he is crying because he wants your boobie, not because he is scared of it. Have you posted on the bf board? There are some very experienced folk on there who may have some tips. Never worry about him not being full enough on bm compared to formula. It may be true, but it is not an problem. He just needs feeding sooner. Enjoy the skin to skin x

GTbaby Thu 01-Nov-12 20:12:28

horsey sounds like my LO. Shakes his head around nipple mouth open then screams. He has drank once tho (well I think he did because he slept for nxt two hours. N he has latched on twice but not drunk any milk, just sucked for an hour!

But I think I've given up on the feeding from me thing. Just going to express.

horseylady Thu 01-Nov-12 20:53:25

Vq where are the breast feeding boards?

Were currently doing skin to skin, offer breast, calm down, offer breast again, calm down give half feed, wind, offer breasts, he doesn't scream then just lies looking at it mouth open, you put it in his mouth but he doesn't latch on or suck. He just lies. Then he finishes off the bottle after a change and is offered the breast again. Then I pump. I offer the breast when he wakes between feeds too. Every time he does what he should do apart from latch on!!! We've tried and tried,

I think He has colic too, which doesn't help.

TheDetective Thu 01-Nov-12 20:56:59

Horsey - I'm no expert on this - but have a google for Cranial Osteopathy. I wonder if this may help him?

I wonder if he is in pain, or associating pain with feeding, or maybe the action of trying to go on the breast hurts him. After all, the suck at a breast is different from the action of sucking a bottle...

Like I say, I'm no expert on this, but have heard a few things in my time about it.

daisychain76 Thu 01-Nov-12 21:11:43

Sorry so many people are having feeding problems. It strikes me a lot of this is due to hospitals keen to get people home regardless if they are confident on bf. l find that really sad. Thechick my Lo had a tube then bottles of expressed stuff and the odd bf, then l did the cold turkey thing thedetective recommended and just bf on demand and it worked well. He has one exprseessed bottle a day cos he needs vits/iron giving iin it. Dh does it around midnight which is great.

Really excited cos just ordered some teenyfit reusable nappies. He only has 3 that fit him at the moment and on average gets through them in 2 hours! We are on washable wipes tho and l love them so much ~can‘t believe irs taken me til dc3 to realise there is an alternative to cotton wool/ disposable ones!

ShellyBobbs Thu 01-Nov-12 21:22:49

Donna It's no problem at all. I remember what it's like when you've just had a baby and no matter what number it is, there is always room for doubt when a 'professional' is telling you basically that you're shit! You are not, your little one is thriving, just not fast enough for their charts hmm If she mentions formula, ignore, ignore, ignore then shut the door smile

daisychain76 Thu 01-Nov-12 21:30:48

Shelly l give you advance warning that the big topic for hvs in our area is alcohol abuse, so you will be asked about your drinking and given a leaflet about the dangers of drink, even if you‘ve told them you‘re teetotal confused

ValiumQueen Thu 01-Nov-12 21:33:18

daisy I too have just discovered the joys of washable wipes. Jealous of teenyfits. Did you get a bargain?

I think detective may be onto something with the craniowotsit horsey

horseylady Thu 01-Nov-12 21:34:19

Detective that's my next port of call to be honest. ESP after forceps and the forcing onto breast from the jaw. I've got a meeting Monday and going to a group hopefully wed with the same lady. Just trying to be relaxed about the whole experience with him. And not pin all my hopes on him doing it.

ShellyBobbs Thu 01-Nov-12 21:36:51

Daisy Lol at that, I've got a bottle of red wine on my coffee table wrapped up, hubby bought it me for my first glass of red wine that I've been dying for grin, I may offer them a glass when they come. I'm not going to bother with them to be honest, but I'm not surprised at the alcohol abuse thing looking at some of the parents about shock

TheDetective Thu 01-Nov-12 21:48:05

Oh I'm glad you have been thinking the same thing and I'm not talking out my arse.

Anecdotal stories I've heard makes me think it sounds like it is worth a try. And I wish I had known when I had DS, as he was a very traumatic delivery sad Extremely unsettled for a long long long time. It wasn't until he was 10 months old he chilled completely sad

kissyfur Thu 01-Nov-12 22:01:26

Definitely give the cranial osteopath a try horsey they really helped DD. she was born with forceps even tho I had a c section- she was thoroughly wedged in!

Good luck with it x

GTbaby Thu 01-Nov-12 22:25:16

How do u manage to post let alone keep up! Lol.

My ipad watching bed snuggle time turned into sleep time. So managed a 5 hour nap grin DH came home from work in time for the crying n feeding time. Lol. Which was great as LO was feeding every two hours today n I was a tad frustrated.

Got a heat pack pressed on my tit getting ready to express while I catch up on X factor USA. Glamorous!

blonderthanred Thu 01-Nov-12 23:46:10

Just wanted to say thanks to those who have posted about the bf/weight issue. As a first time parent I'm not sure I'd have felt confident enough to question what I was told to do by the mws etc or stand up for what I wanted.

Have fed at least every 2 hrs today, L has been in good appetite since my milk started being more abundant, so am hopeful of a gain tomorrow. Fingers xed.

rowingdowntheriver Fri 02-Nov-12 02:56:04

Boo! This is not good, DS was sleeping from 11.30pm to 4am then last night only managed to 3.15am and tonight to 2.45am. His sleep is going backwards.

Also, both DS's are getting colds. DS1 who normally goes to sleep really well took over an hour to settle tonight and now DS2 has got a snuffley nose which is upsetting him and causing him to not feed very well. I thought my milk was supposed to help his immune system?! I've not got a cold so he should be fine!

Seeing all the upset that has been caused by weight loss I guess I am lucky that DS was not weighed until he was a week old as by then he was back to his birth weight so we'll never know how much he lost and re-gained inbetween being born and then.

NervousAt20 Fri 02-Nov-12 03:12:55

My LO went 4 hours without a feed, I've been told to not let her got over 3 hours, she's 6lb 4oz will it overly matter if sometimes she does go longer? Seeing the MW to be discharged tomrrow but don't want to be told I'm a ba mummy for letting her

rowingdowntheriver Fri 02-Nov-12 05:38:11

Awake again!

I think the odd 4 hour sleep is fine! If baby is back to birth weight then it's definitely fine and is what I would be hoping for (sorry, can't remember if yours is at birth weight again).

NervousAt20 Fri 02-Nov-12 05:59:31

Yeh she is rowing she was only 5lb 14oz born grin now she's getting right chubby little cheeks. She woke this time after just over 2 hours for her third night feed, hope you've managed to get some sleep

Why do babies make you constantly worry and doubt yourself

ValiumQueen Fri 02-Nov-12 10:31:51

Nervous I agree, the odd longer sleeps is fine. It sounds as if she knows what she is doing. She will wake when hungry. You are doing really well smile

Awaiting the MW, to see me today. If they mention the weight or feeding I will show them the door and call the GP.

When I had my clips out I said I wanted them to stay in two more days as it did not feel sufficiently healed (I am a nurse, and am not the best healer) she said the wound was fine and pretty much insisted they came out. They were sore so I agreed. It was that day I had to traipse to the hospital, so felt shattered, and also the next day. DS is now 8 days old and I do not feel right. I have had a headache for 3 days now, and I mentioned this to the MW yesterday, who did not say anything about it or check BP or even document it. All she wanted to talk about was the poor feeding (grr!)

Last night, getting out of bed to put DS in basket, I felt something pop inside, or get stretched, anyway something was pushed too far by the movement. It felt like the tubal ligation region rather than the section scar or internal stitching in womb. I have had little twinges, but nothing like this pain. It is not constant, it is not agony, but I could not manage DS without help last night. Cue one grumpy DH. DS had the best night ever thankfully.

Headache returned this morning, not eased by lying down. I was putting it down to worry about weight and pressure from MW. I asked my mum to bring her BP machine around just to be sure. 160/100. Not good, but may not be accurate. I took a photo of my scar on the iPad as I cannot see it due to rubenesque figure, and it looks as if it is opening up. It is definately raw, and on feeling it does not have a gaping hole, but it needs checking. My instinct was right to leave it alone. I do not have a temp, but do have a rotten cough too.

I called triage, although the only MW I would happily see is detective, and am awaiting their visit.

Maybe DH will be a bit more sympathetic when he gets home. I just pray I do not have to go to hospital.

Hope everyone is ok. I hear we have a few more graduates, but cannot keep up with the chat on the pre-natal thread.

ValiumQueen Fri 02-Nov-12 10:40:34

horsey sorry I cannot link, but if you click on the topics list at the top, it is under 'feed the world' 'breast and bottle feeding' if I recall. I started a thread a couple of days ago and got a lot of support. Tiktok is the breastfeeding queen, so take her advice and sift through the rest.

NervousAt20 Fri 02-Nov-12 10:56:14

Aw valium it sounds awful! I hope you get somethig sorted today without a trip to the hospital and lots of support from your DH. Also hope you don't get the same MW who took your staples out

Just feeding LO at in laws, they completely adore her but I know they will think I'm a complete dragon when I go back downstairs and put her in her carry cot, i feel mean doing it but if she gets held for 4 hours she will be a nightmare for me for the rest of the day and night

StuntNun Fri 02-Nov-12 11:07:50

Horsey I just wanted to let you know that my DS1 wouldn't latch on either. I got him latched on precisely twice, both times as soon as the milk started flowing he spit my nipple out. I had problems with overactive letdown with DS2 but he managed to cope with it so this might have been the problem with DS1 - he couldn't cope with the fast milk flow. Anyway I exclusively fed DS1 using nipple shields for four months then introduced one bottle of formula a day when he started weaning. Do you have nipple shields you could give a try? They are a bit of a hassle but a LOT easier than expressing all the time.

I'd like to make my position clear that I think it is every woman's right to decide how she feeds her baby, whether it be breastmilk from the boob, expressed milk, formula milk, goat's milk, soya milk or any combination thereof. HOWEVER for myself, I will not permit formula milk to pass my baby's lips until their digestive system is mature enough to start weaning. In my opinion baby humans need human milk and nothing else is good enough, formula is a brilliant option for pre-term babies or where the mother cannot feed her baby but I wouldn't consider it as anything but a last resort. Please understand, I am not trying to be critical of anyone's method of feeding their baby. I just want to give the ladies that are struggling some perspective. I will say no to any suggestions of topping up with formula unless there is a medical reason to do so. I want you to make up your own minds on how you feed your baby and not be pushed into something you don't want to do. Some women start topping up with formula and it is a lifesaver, suddenly they find they can cope. But it should be YOUR CHOICE.

DonnaDoon Fri 02-Nov-12 11:30:20

Just wanted to shout HOORAY from the rooftops my dd is back to her birth weight infact slightly over and she will be 4wks old on sunday so now finally discharged from home visits and I can stop stressing...so to all you worried ones it can take this long with breastfeeding but they get there in the end YIPEE !

Evilwater Fri 02-Nov-12 11:42:56

What a bad night we had. LO would not settle, didn't want food or dummy just to be held upright he cried All evening and most of the night. I had to co sleep as it was the ONLY thing that would stop him crying. He didn't even want my nipple to chew on!

The same thing this morning, just would NOT settle, unless being held. He is just made it into his Moses basket. Fingers crossed.

I can't keep holding him for hours, what can I do?

blonderthanred Fri 02-Nov-12 12:21:23

Donna that is great, congratulations. As I said before I have found the experience and perspectives on this board have really helped me feel I can keep going with the bf and hopefully L will have gained some weight so I don't have to fight my corner to do so.

It seems so strange after 9 months of advice from mws not to allow anything other than my breast until 1 month, even a hint of a teat will hinder bf etc etc to be in this situation now. Like Stunt I don't want to introduce anything other than the breast unless it is really necessary, but maybe a more balanced perspective during pg would be more sensible? The all or nothing approach is going to put of ff-ers who might try combining and make those who want to but can't bf feel shit. Why not have best practice info for those who want to and can ebf but also have practical advice for those who don't want to or can't, to help make the most of whatever their choices or needs are? I know this is a really emotive subject so I hope I've phrased that ok.

We had a bad night as well and L was feeding for so long I started to worry he wasn't actually getting much through but he comes away with milky lips so hopefully he's just found his appetite.

ValiumQueen Fri 02-Nov-12 12:37:42

Apparently my wound is ok, just raw skin where the clips overlapped the skin? Internal pains fine. Normal.

BP dangerously high so being admitted. Had a hissy fit initially, refusing to go, but agreed i need to be well to care for my three kids, and said they are admitting me not Jacob, and if anyone mentioned formula they would have it rammed down their throats. I told them it was their fault for stressing me out. The MW was lovely actually.

I will be out of signal unfortunately, so take care, and hope to be back soon.

TheDetective Fri 02-Nov-12 12:47:01

Bugger VQ... Quick message - you'll be fine, hopefully home in a day or 2. It isn't unusual for this to happen postantally. Promise smile

Comments above noted... daft soppy bugger you are grin

They don't need to admit Jacob, don't worry smile

NervousAt20 Fri 02-Nov-12 12:54:55

Hopefully your in and out soon valium your right that you need to be well to care for your DCs. Are you allowed to take your little man with you?

blonderthanred Fri 02-Nov-12 13:02:56

So sorry to hear it VQ. Hope it's quickly resolved and that you are ok.

L has lost 30 bloody grammes. So they want me to give him 90ml formula 3x a day. Apparently I should think of it that I am the main meal and formula is the pudding.

horseylady Fri 02-Nov-12 13:07:28

It's very emotive. I think that's why I've struggled so much. mw been not really put on any weight in two days. They say they're not worried, he's happy and alert but are coming Sunday to weigh him again.

Mw was lovely and said don't panic but it's my baby. How can you say not worry?!! She said it might just be a feeding review.

horseylady Fri 02-Nov-12 13:10:26

Vq hope you're ok

NervousAt20 Fri 02-Nov-12 13:15:15

horsey at least he hasn't LOs any weight that's a positive sign. Hope your okay x

DonnaDoon Fri 02-Nov-12 13:24:14

Blonder That is unbelievable dont listen if you dont want to....love and hugs toVQ

DonnaDoon Fri 02-Nov-12 13:26:43

Blonder I am so shocked they advised that ...sorry Im speechless...wheres Shelly ?

DonnaDoon Fri 02-Nov-12 13:32:41

Or Stunt ?

DonnaDoon Fri 02-Nov-12 13:53:41

Has anyones baby got a spotty face yet? I read on babycentre that its not uncommon between 3 and 6wks because of my hormones apparantly still in her system but they are not bothering her and she is well so thats the main thing.

blonderthanred Fri 02-Nov-12 14:06:22

Ok so I stood my ground, just about. She rang the head cmw and I spoke to her. I am going to start expressing with pump to encourage more milk to come and potentially top up between feeds. They are going to come back on Sun, if he is still losing weight they will refer him to hospital to see paediatrician.

Cmw kept saying how healthy he looked and how she wasn't worried but it was just policy. And how well I was doing. Yeah thanks.

NervousAt20 Fri 02-Nov-12 14:22:24

donna my little one has a couple of white spots/pimples on her face

blonder I'm glad you stood your ground, you'll do what's best for you and your LO

GTbaby Fri 02-Nov-12 14:25:11

I have to admit I'm embarrassed to admit , when asked , that I'm giving formula. On phone to my cousin in Canada, when I said DH helps with night feeds she was very shocked I wasn't breast feeding n was even more shocked when told I didn't get support in hospital to feed. She had issues feeding at first but had access to lactation consultants to sort it out. I'm still very angry at lack of support and will b complaining to the hospital, particularly as they had posters promoting bf everywhere n saying that there is a specialist. But they didn't.

I got my medela swing today. Currently in steriliser. Looking forward to using it. Oh my life gets more n more glamourous. hoping that will up my milk collection so I can feed my son more of my milk.

Evilwater Fri 02-Nov-12 14:38:15

Donna- yes he as spots all over his face. They are called milk spots apparently.
VQ- hope you get better soon.

blonderthanred Fri 02-Nov-12 14:41:28

That's what I mean GT - you shouldn't feel like that. If a more realistic attitude was promoted it might save a lot of stress and actually improve bf rates. It's clearly not your fault you weren't given the support and you are still working hard to do what you can in spite of that.

Evilwater Fri 02-Nov-12 14:56:09

So far my experiance has been not that great. The nurses while brilliant, were few and some were clearly trainned more than the others.
I kept saying to them, he was having loads of propblems latching on and only one nurse listened to me. So I guess that's why I ebf.

Even now I want to chuck it all in and FF, as he is "only on the 9th percentile" I'm now topping up with ff as some days I can't keep up with demand.

It really doesn't help that we have a hormones floating about. Anyone else still feeling very up and down?

StuntNun Fri 02-Nov-12 15:41:31

Blonder it is up to you whether you top up, give it up a few more days first, or decide to continue with breast milk only. I would stick with breast milk and see how things go, there are easier ways to spot a thriving baby than just going on weight.

Evil the 9th percentile is fine, that is normal. A lot of babies are born on one percentile then move to another which they then stay on. My two boys are both between the 2nd and 9th and have been since they were weeks old but DS1 was born on the 50th and DS2 on the 2nd. If you want to FF, then do it because you want to. The best feeding method is what keeps mother and baby happiest, nothing else matters.

Horsey it sounds like there is something wrong. Do you have access to any breastfeeding support or can you contact La Leche League or start a thread on MN? If your baby cries whenever put down it could be reflux. I'm no expert but my two neighbours boys had gastro-esophageal reflux disease and both cried whenever they were put down flat to sleep.

horseylady Fri 02-Nov-12 16:47:42

He doesn't cry when put down, only when put to the breast. Or when he's hungry or colicy. Anyway, yesterday he wanted 4 hourly feeds, today three hourly.

Ive started writing down patterns etc to show the mw. At least then they can see exactly what I'm doing. And I can remember!!

NervousAt20 Fri 02-Nov-12 16:51:14

GT you have nothing to be embarrassed about. There is way to much pressure put on mums to bf, the most important thing is that you and your son are happy. How anyone feeds there child is no one else's business

evil I'm deffinatly still hormonal but its alot better now rather then when LO was born, I could cry at the click of your fingers

Just been to the MW clinic and were all signed off. BabyN decided to wee the second her nappy was off grin that seems to be her party trick. We walked there because I have no car sad and my god there was a hill that killed me, I am ashamed to realise how spoilt I've been since I could drive, in my teens I use to walk everywhere!!! that's why I have a fatter arse now then grin

kissyfur Fri 02-Nov-12 17:14:19

Sorry to hear you are in hospital VQ Hope u feel better soon x

StuntNun Fri 02-Nov-12 17:15:15
ValiumQueen Fri 02-Nov-12 17:17:12

Home from hospital. Strict bed rest. BP was fine when I was resting, so clearly I am overdoing things. Very relieved as is DH. Head ache still there. Initially they said I could have codeine, then remembered I was bfing. Why do they torture me like this? grin

blonder I am sorry you have the ongoing upset about weight. I swear that is what triggered this episode. Dreading tomorrow and sorely tempted to refuse weight, but then I will worry that I am not caring for my son by refusing.

blonderthanred Fri 02-Nov-12 17:55:38

Completely lost my nerve. Tried to express earlier and just felt like it left my nipples no time to recover in between feeds. L doing repeat feeds so it seems like he is not getting enough from me. Plus no dirty nappy since the early hrs (DH thought this was a good thing so hadn't mentioned).

Just been crying a lot, DH sent me to bed for an hour to try and sleep. Just feel like I might as well try the sodding formula if it is what L needs. Not sure what I am fighting for any more.

I am covered in milk and Lanolin and feel like crap.

I am so glad you are back home VQ. I am not surprised your BP was raised.

PetiteRaleuse Fri 02-Nov-12 18:13:50

I think it is so sad that at what should be a happy time for everyone on here that there is so much stress about feeding. Do what feels right for you. There is no such thing as failure as long as baby is fed somehow. I learned with dd1 that there was no point in stressing ourselves out over this issue, and I am sure that this has helped settle down to looking after dd2 more easily.

Please give yourselves a little rest over this. smile

StuntNun Fri 02-Nov-12 18:42:44

Please try and relax Blonder, it doesn't matter what you do so long as baby gets fed. If he keeps bfing your supply will increase health visitors should know this doesn't happen over night, if you top up with formula then the pressure will be off. Either way your baby will be fine.

daisychain76 Fri 02-Nov-12 18:48:03

Blondera baby feeding ondemand might choose to feed every half an hour or even every 5 mins, it doesn‘t mean tthey‘re not getting enough, they are just built to feed and grow (and they do have growth spurts, including one around 2 weeks). You are doing an amazing job..

Vq hope your bp settles soon. Make the most of being. ordered to rest!
Couldn‘t find a nappy bargain, but tthey are a bit cheaper oon Kingdom of Fluff than elsewhere.

Going. to try LO in a. cot tonight as he now only goes abt 40 mins in his moses baskket without whinging. No idea if it‘ll make any difference, but wwe‘re getting to the try anyrhing stage.

ShellyBobbs Fri 02-Nov-12 18:57:33

Blonder My first didn't do a dirty nappy for 2 weeks, plenty of wet ones but no poo. I obviously got this checked out with my GP who phoned a pediatrician whilst we were there, we were told that because I was exclusively breastfeeding, there was obviously no waste at all and not to worry. She was totally fine and 12 years later, shits for England!

Donna Unfortunately just a very busy day and not had a chance to get on before now. Thanks for noticing my absence though grin

VQ Glad you're OK smile

ValiumQueen Fri 02-Nov-12 20:00:24

Little lamb nappy sale starts tonight. Two times given, 8pm and 9pm. You can only see the sale items if you like their FB page.

blonder perhaps a wee bit of formula will help you through this difficult time. I was determined to not give formula, but after feeling so very unwell today, if his weight is down, and he is showing signs of not getting enough, i too will top up, but only for as long as it takes. He however has never fed or looked better!

horsie if you want to give formula and stop expressing then do so, just please be sure it is what you want to do. What you have given him already will stand him in good stead, and you can hand on heart say you gave it a bloody good try!

StuntNun Fri 02-Nov-12 20:17:52

I spoke to my HV mum today about the seemingly widespread advice to top up with formula. Unfortunately she was quite disparaging of her peers (she has been a HV for decades) saying that some are recruited straight from nursing courses without having any experience, particularly community experience, before graduating as Health Visitors. Apparently the WHO guidelines for newborns recommend infrequent weighings of up to four times per year! This is because weight gain is notoriously erratic. She also pointed out that your baby could appear to lose weight in the short term simply because they have just had a dirty nappy or they're wearing different clothes. I can't remember who said their baby had lost 30g but that's probably less than the weight of one wee.

TheDetective Fri 02-Nov-12 20:38:38

Your mum is so right Stunt!

With regards to weight loss, yes, if you weigh a nappy when a baby has wee'd, you will easily get over 30g in them! Weigh a dry one first to compare the weights!

It is how Scbu work out the urine output when required to! They weigh them! 1g is equal to 1ml of wee!

So it is very easy for weight loss to seem 'excessive' as lets face it, the average newborn is 3.5kg, so anything above 350g is classed as 10% weight loss and 'unacceptable'!!

blonderthanred Fri 02-Nov-12 20:40:32

Thank you voices of reason and sanity...

I think Evil is right about the hormones raging, up and down is about right. I had a doze and a friend brought round dinner so I am feeling more rational again. I think I felt I had to tick all these boxes and couldn't keep up.

I worked out that if L had been 60g heavier the other day we wouldn't be going through all of this. I should have surreptitiously taped a dairy milk to him.

TheDetective Fri 02-Nov-12 20:43:07

That made me giggle blonder! You clearly haven't got the size of dairy milks that I have grin

horseylady Fri 02-Nov-12 21:21:59

Expressing is going ok. Im not killing myself over it. He's always less settled after a bottle of breast milk though?

Hoping Monday to discuss nipple shields. He tried feeding off one breast for a minute today!! Proper sucking milk pouring out other boob. Then he started crying. Guess it doesn't come fast enough.

I also think I'm happier currently feeding half breast half formula with the weight thing. At least everything is written down and they can't ask for more than that!!

kissyfur Fri 02-Nov-12 21:22:14

Glad you're feeling better blonder lol at the dairy milk grin

GTbaby Fri 02-Nov-12 21:50:49

Not 100% pleased with expressing today. Might be the new pump? Or that I'm not expressing enough so my milk levels r not increasing. Any tips from those expressing? How often are u doing it?

Evilwater Fri 02-Nov-12 21:52:09

Hello all,
Baby evil, is awful at night, last night he would only stop crying if he was asleep on my chest.
Tonight same pattern happening again,but I had to go for a pee, and by the time I came back baby evil had stopped crying!

I hope his is ok for a 4 week old. I can hear him whimper, but it's a miricale compared to last night. I know he is not hungry as he awoke for a feed and nappy changed.

TheDetective Fri 02-Nov-12 21:57:56

Expressing should be 6-8 times a day minimum GT if not breastfeeding in between. It should also include overnight, as this is when the milk production is at its best.

You need to try and do it 2-3 hourly if you can, to get optimum levels. It is difficult with expressing though, to keep up with babys demands, as their demands change!

daisychain76 Fri 02-Nov-12 22:25:30

Fingers crossed you get a good night Evil. My Lo is nearly 6 weeks but having similar. issues. I am sat here scoffing biscuits to give me energy for the night ahead.

StuntNun Fri 02-Nov-12 23:10:23

Also GT milk levels are at their lowest early evening so if you express then you will get less milk than e.g. first thing in the morning. Also prolactin levels are highest in the night so if you express milk (or breastfeed as the case may be) through the night then you will actually produce more milk in the day.

GTbaby Sat 03-Nov-12 00:39:00

Wow so I gota do it a lot more! Do midnight n 6 am count as night time expressing? Lol I'm very bad at staying awake. Just about manage to feed LO n burp him, alot of respect for u mums who spend hours bf all night.

Tonight is going to b no fun. DH is out with his mates "wetting babies head" which means very drunk DH. His pillows r already in spare room grin. But means I get no help at 5am feed sad. Suppose I should get used to it before he does his nxt lot of night shifts !

NervousAt20 Sat 03-Nov-12 01:26:25

BabyN is having a very bad night sad I'm praying she goes to sleep after this next feed for a few hours

GTbaby Sat 03-Nov-12 02:08:50

Omg LO won't sleep. Fed him hour ago n he won't go bk to sleep. Or let me put him down. Or stop rocking him. confused

GTbaby Sat 03-Nov-12 06:25:54

Argh. Finally got to sleep at 3.30. Just fed him again. So tiered. DH picked perfect night to go out.
He stumbled in at 2 ish n didn't even mk it to spate room, passed out on sofa. Just heard him get up now n move to spare room.

If he thinks he's getting a lay in he better think again!

NervousAt20 Sat 03-Nov-12 07:12:02

GT sorry you've had a bad night. It would be awful for your poor DH if next time yor LO is due for a feed he's woken up by a grizzly baby to do grin I am not an evil person I swear

We've had a bad night here to, don't even want to think how much little sleep I actually got

Sophiathesnowfairy Sat 03-Nov-12 07:36:49

Oh, this is where everyone is.

horsey think detectives cranial osteopath idea s a great one. It sounds really similar to what I went through with my first and I gave up trying to bf, then was at a coffee thing, and I was talking about my problems and this woman who was a cranial osteopath said she wasn't surprised she wouldn't feed as her head was wonky which affected her palette/jaw area(DD1 was breach and properly wedged head wise). This made me feel slightly better but I wondered why other people in the know hadn't spotted it. Latterly the HV did and we had a couple of scans to check if her skull was realigning by itself.

Ps she is not particularly wonky any more grin

GTbaby Sat 03-Nov-12 08:56:04

nervous have thought about it. However DH is such a heavy sleeper he wouldn't wake up! Spesh when hung over.

Any thoughts about pump cleaning? In particular night expressing. Trying to work out if I can express at night n not sterilise pump. Could I just rinse in warm water before nxt use. Don't really wana leave my bed at 2 and 5.

Yes I am extreamly lazy. Maybe my boobs n my baby know this about me which is why I can't bf? blush although one of my reasons to bf was so I didn't have to wash more stuff up confused

horseylady Sat 03-Nov-12 09:08:22

Sophia thanks his head was twisted so I'll look into that and nipple shields.

Gt I don't express overnight. I know hormones are highest etc but unless he's awake and fretful, I just miss that express. Yes it may well affect my supply but I'm doing all I can. I'm not going to feel guilty about it any more.

He's here to be loved, cuddled and looked after. I am doing that to the best of my ability without killing myself. If I expressed as well at that time overnight I'd get even less sleep. I personally would want everything sterile before use.

My main aim is to try to establish breast feeding I'm giving it 4 weeks of all options then leaving it in the pattern were in.

I don't want to look back and regret feeling shit about my sons first few weeks. He's a week old today!!! This time last week I was just being admitted to the labour ward!!!

PetiteRaleuse Sat 03-Nov-12 10:02:04

I don't express overnight either. I get little enough sleep as it is. I don't function well with less than 8 hours sleep a day which is obviously hard to come by at the moment.

ValiumQueen Sat 03-Nov-12 10:09:38

Breast milk is not like formula as it is bug free. I used to (and plan to) express, put lid on milk container and covers on pump, put all in fridge. Next express, usea pump with fresh bottle, and repeat. You do not need to sterilise each time, I used to do it daily. Do not pump warm milk into chilled milk, but when milk is chilled, they can be transferred to the one container.

horsey I am amazed nobody has mentioned nipple shields. I hope it would work for you.

Jacob is getting weighed today. I am loving the bed rest, but still anxious about weigh-in. It is very funny hearing DH manage everything. He was very good overnight, getting up to help me, and actually feels less tired for it. I still feel like shit, but not as bad as yesterday. I was really frightened yesterday thinking I was gonna have a stroke. That would really complicate things!

PetiteRaleuse Sat 03-Nov-12 10:17:23

Horseylady you're right. This is a special time and will go by so quickly. It's such a shame to spend it ferling stressed and guilty.

Thechick Sat 03-Nov-12 10:27:33

gt when my little one was in the scbu I was expressing every 3 hours for a couple of weeks and that did seem to up the amount of milk that I was getting and I find massaging the boob beforehand and during seems to get more milk out and try to empty the boob as well. Now that I'm home I'm doing what I can when I can with expressing but definitely doing the 2am. I'm trying to bf before every bottle feed and he's doing really well sometimes not even needing a bottle feed. When I was initially expressing during he night I was pumping and dumping so I didn't have to steralise the stuff properly but then I got dh involved and he would wash the stuff and steralise it for me. Apparently you don't need to steralise bf bottles and expressing equipment. It just needs a good wash with hot soapy water but I steralise all of mine. I think I'm going to go the drugs route as I had a couple of days this week that we had to be in the hospital overnight, LO keeps having these jerking episodes and I wasn't able to pump and my supply has gone down a bit. I have a prescription for domperidone that increases supply and I used fenugreek with ds1 and that worked well.

horseylady Sat 03-Nov-12 10:34:00

Seriously vq? So I don't need to worry about taking the steriliser to mums? How fast do you need to cool breast milk?

GTbaby Sat 03-Nov-12 10:36:30

Thanks for that tip vq Will get a container for the pump to go in fridge.
Hmm poured pumped milk in to chilled milk last night. blushconfused. I'm sure I read somewhere it was ok. Will chill from now on.
Going to aim to pump every three hours today. N with all the bits going in fridge that will save me time. Will just have to b strict if we have visitors and excuse myself for 15 mins.

LO looks SO cute in his crib. I wana pick him up n cuddle him in bed grin.

horseylady Sat 03-Nov-12 10:50:47

Vq were doing nipple shields Monday with the bf councillor. He will sit at my breast really happily now and play just won't feed. To be honest I'm happy with that progress.

I'm feeling more relaxed about things today. Probably because I have no mw visits and he slept 12 - 2 then 3 till 6 then 7 till 9! Happy with this routine and it was night two of doing it!!! Plus no screaming from 11.45!!! Just mewing!! Swaddling from midnight helps then he's unswaddled after his 6am feed.

blonderthanred Sat 03-Nov-12 11:07:42

An extra hrs sleep last night and I feel so much more human. Drinking loads to try and help the milk as I always forget to have enough fluids.

Fed L the expressed milk from a syringe and he seemed happy enough with it. Lovely SIL arriving from Ireland today for a visit, can't wait.

Glad everyone seems to be feeling more positive too, this thread is such a good support and info exchange. Interested in the fenugreek chick, is that tablets, tea or something else?

ValiumQueen Sat 03-Nov-12 12:29:02

Apparently you do not need to sterilise at all, but I still do, all bottles and teats, and pump daily. Apparently bm can stay in fridge for up to a week, but I freeze it if it is not going to be used in the next 48 hours. I know the kellymom website is pretty good with the latest advice. I am not an expert, so please do not just take my word for it.

I am not pumping yet as I am not well enough to. I need to put all my energy into making milk for the little prince. I am looking forward to pumping though, strangely. I used to get quite a thrill from seeing the lovely milk coming out, knowing that it meant a longer time I could be away and them still have my goodness, at work for example, not that I wanted to be away from them. I remember one day I dropped a bottle of expressed and lost about 100mls. I howled!

ValiumQueen Sat 03-Nov-12 16:46:48

Weight has stayed the same. Apparently babies have a growth spurt days 8-10, and are not routinely weighed on day 10 as a gain is unlikely. To look at Kim he is fine, so we have been discharged. It was also post pee and poo, and pre-feed.

I have rested as best as I can, but DH is tired. All he wants is 10 minutes peace and a couple of hours kip. My mum had both girls for 5 hours this morning and he chose to watch the football. Grr! men!

Madame has graduated it seems!

Catbag Sat 03-Nov-12 18:05:37

Congratulations to Madam!

Sorry to hear you've been having some problems vq, sounds like you've been through the mill these last couple of days. Glad you're back <<hugs>>

Can't believe how anally the midwives have been enforcing the 10% 'rule'. It seems entirely arbitrary and I'm not surprised that so many mothers on this thread have been getting stressed, which won't have helped milk supply at all. I consider myself a bf pro, but I'd have been seriously thrown if I'd have had midwives ordering me to supplement with formula, even at babies 5 & 6. You're all doing really well and it is far more important that you are all calm and happy with your babies, not what milk you are giving them.

daisychain76 Sat 03-Nov-12 18:12:03

Good news Vq. I was also told no nood to sterilise the pump, just rinse with hot water, but steralise bottles/teats. I was a bit sceptical cos when l had DS1 (8 years ago) l remember a big lecture from MW on steralising it each time. Makes it a lot more convenient tho.

Just bought some infacol today as LO seems to be suffering with wind/stomach pains at night (thankfully not full blown colic). Was also eyeing up Ewan the Sheep in Boots, but not sure whether it is worth the money...

rowingdowntheriver Sat 03-Nov-12 18:35:38

Evening all! I've had a lovely day out in town with DH and the boys, mooching about the shops with regular tea and cake breaks in between. A now back on the sofa where I belong feeding DS2 whilst DH puts DS1 to bed.

I just checked the nhs advice re sterilising pumps and the websites say these should be sterilised. Link to the advice is here.