Hi ponymum! Really need some ideas re; family friendly places to eat out and fun things for ds1 (6 years) and ds2 (10 months) to do.....? We are also going with my PIL so nothing too strenuous....You are lucky to live in such a beautiful place!

Have given no thought to T's present perhaps some fisher price little people stuff?...and clothes from everyone else!!!

Took T to be weighed today as other plans were cancelled and I havent taken him for 9 weeks and he was 25lbs 4oz!!! It is costing me a fortune to clothe this child!!!

digi we're getting a small wheelybug. I always wanted one for ds1 but couldn't bring myself to spend £50 on one. But as ds2 will have lots of hand me down toys and clothes I thought it might be nice for him to have something a bit special for himself. There's no way ds1 will let him have his sit and ride as he still plays with it so a new one will be useful anyway.

potxola I lived in Edinburgh for 4 years, why were you asking?

Been ttc for a few months, but given no periods yet not expecting much. On the other hand, that's why I didn't notice for 4 months last time... No flu-like tiredness or other symptoms, anyway.

[gets out test stick and plastic cup, wusses out until MrNC is home...] Plan to stop bf just after the MMR, to help periods - but so far I can't bring myself to stop his afternoon feed. I've turned into a right sentimental sausage. I've found a baggie to put his locks of hair in when we cut his fringe in the next day or two.

Had great news on Sat at friend's wedding blessing (they had marriage overseas at New Year) - she's expecting in Jan. She's worried about getting over her aversion to body functions - in particular she has an actual phobia of the word 'placenta'... she said so far that's paling to insignifccance compared to everyone going 'Congratulations, but aren't you worried about swine flu?'

My friend at the HPA who has racked up 100s of hours of overtime on swine flu recently is ttc, for what it's worth. In her limited spare time.

Just realised that we're getting dangerously close to the end. New thread here:

The end of an amazing year

OMG, ladies, I have not given a first birthday party a single thought! Or a present for that matter. Do they really get it when they're that little, or is it more for us parents and grandparents?

I was going to TTC right away, but then I found myself minus a job, and with DP's wages reduced by the recession, so we're not going to yet. Like DG and hopefully, I am looking for freelance work at the mo, albeit rather halfheartedly, and kind of think to myself that perhaps this would be a good time to have DD2 if I'm ever going to have one at all. On the other hand, the reduced income makes it seem madness.

I'm kind of telling myself that I'll do the job hunting in earnest come September...

Hi becaroo. I am near Helmsley, not far from Pickering. What would you like to do? I can recommend country inns, gastro pubs, and fabulous places to go walking or pony riding!

Wow! TTC!!! Wishing those of you who are lots of luck xx

I cant now, but would have loved to...I am really NOT sensible at all!!!!

Re: parties...on T's actual birthday I am having a family tea party at home and then on the following monday I am having the ladies and babies from baby massage class round for a little party at lunchtime.....where has the last year gone???? This time last year I was boring you all rigid with my tales of woe...irritable uterus, weeing myself on a regular basis (although, to be fair, I still do that!!) and the horrors of no sleep....

hopefully WRT your feelings after your friends birth....dont be so hard on yourself...you had a bad time and its natural to feel envious of those who dont...I still get pangs when I see bf mothers and babies and still feel envious for those who bf with no trouble at all...

Ds1 last week of school this week, so hte mayhem will REALLY start next week!

DO any of you live near scarborough/whitby/pickering way??? We are going up there in the 1st week of august and dh wnats me to suss out stuff to do with little ones...any ideas?

Have a good day ladies x

Hopefully I love T's photos. Is that a baguette?

I was a bit shocked reading the recent posts when the realisation dawned on me that my little baby girl is going to turn 1 in a few weeks. How did that happen? And as for birthday presents, party, .... oh now you have really confused me.

digigirl I think we sort of have the same vague approach. It is not really the right time to conceive now, but it took so long last time that if it happens, fine - we'll run with that! I am working on the theory that part of the reason it took so long first time round is we were getting stressed that our carefully planned timetable was not happening, and was outside our control. So if we are consciously trying NOT to control it... oh hang on, that sounds like double reverse psychology or something... Anyway, let's just say that we are not taking any precautions, but we are NOT officially TTC either. I am not taking folic acid, still drinking lots of coffee and alcohol, etc. I am also freelancing, or more correctly in my case, out of work (I kid myself I am looking for freelancing work, but so far, nada) so I may as well have another pregnancy since there's no income to lose.

Anyhoo, I was really upset about the article in the Observer yesterday where the NCT is advising women to delay TTC until swine flu has passed. What, 2014? I'll practically be menopausal by then! I am ignoring this edict, la la la. <fingers in ears emoticon> But great if lots of other people take this advice - the maternity wards will be nice and quiet, there will be loads of places at the best schools, etc, etc! Hell, let's ALL go for it!

DG DP and I have a very vague plan that we discussed a few weeks ago, and TBH haven't really thought about since, to try for a couple of months from August, then stop until after xmas - don't particularly want an August baby, due to high incidence of problems like dyslexia in DP's family (don't want any issues like dyslexia being ignored for years by people saying 'oh, s/he's young for the year, they'll catch up). It's a really silly paranoia, and if it takes a long time to fall pregnant I won't bother stopping next year, but while we're in the position to be able to take such decisions with no downside, we are.
Financially it wouldn't be sensible to have another one any time soon, but with me freelancing rather than having a proper job, that's not going to change any time soon, and TBH, apart from food bills, a second one won't be nearly as expensive as the first!

Potxola (and anyone else who's interested!) new pics of T on profile page.

debi what are you getting your ds for his birthday? I can't believe I haven't even thought about his present! We're having a big party (more for us parents than for him) but totally forgot about presents! Not that he would know. What do you get a 1 year old? I mean he's always gets new toys and books when I think he needs them.

Who on this thread is ttc? It seems that DH and I are sort of, but we're being very casual about it. I'm still drinking gallons of coffee (getting more sleep does not make me less tired) and not taking any folic acid. And part of me doesn't actually want it to happen for a few months because I quite like being slimmer than I've been for quite a while (bf induced weight loss has finally kicked in). Also, with my completely unreliable freelance income I have no idea how we'd save for another chunk of maternity leave. Clearly with an attitude like mine I musnt go anywhere near the ttc threads. I was desperate so obsessively desperate to get pg first time round. But now I'm more 'well it would be lovely if it happened but I'm not going to worry if it takes a while'.

Star Yes. she will be there.
I will keep you posted. Send me positive thoughts.
Any of you live in Edimburgh?
Hopefully post a recent photo of T. We all want to see how handsome he is almost a year later.

carrie it's the 13th Sept, was thinking of making it a combined birthday party too. Can't believe it's taken me so long to get it organised. Mind you ds1 was 18 months when he was done.

Yes, only about 6 weeks till his birthday, how did that happen???? Better start looking for presents (actually what am I talking about, I know what we're getting him )

hopefully my friend who recently had a horrid birth talked to her health visitor who arranged for her to meet with the consultant who'd looked after her in hospital, and I believe there's also a midwife who is in charge of talking peopel through their notes. I'd try through HV rather than GP first, that seems to be more effective round here anyway!

This saturday I'm having my first ever night away from ds I'm not looking forward to it! I don't feel the need for a break, and if he wakes in the night it seems right that it should be me who sees to him. It'll only be the 5th night I've been away from dd. They'll both be with dh and he's perfectly capable, I'm at a hen party <should be excited but quite dreading it emoticon>

debi when is your ds's dedication? Mine is 20th Sept - combined with 1st birthday party!

I can't believe our babies will turn 1 on the next thread. gulp. In fact Johnworf and Jenbot's babies will already be 1!!

hopefully don't feel bad about what you are feeling. It does sound quite normal. I think there's a coupld of mums on this thread who had counselling isn't there? Sounds like a good idea to me.

I wish my mil or mum lived close enough to be able to take the boys overnight DS1 stayed with my mum and dad once for 2 nights while we went way with some friends in Scotland but that's the only time we've been able to do it. There's a really posh hotel opened near here which isn't actually all that expensive at the weekends (its for posh business people who use Farnborough airport) so I half jokingly suggested to dh that when his parents are down in Sept for ds2's dediction that they stay here and we stay in the hotel up the road.

DH now has 2 flights out to Lisbon next week. After trying to decide if he should cancel his flight so he could go to the interview and then fly out 2 days after us we discovered that it was actully cheaper to book a new flight than it was to cancel one and change it to a different day! So now we can wait until he hears from the 1st job before decided what to do.
So if anyone fancies a 1 way trip to Lisbon let me know!

Hopefully - I don't know exactly how to go about it but if you contact the head of midwifery at your local, she should be able to point you in the right direction. Have a look on your local's website, they may list her name and further contact details.

I believe whoever holds the appt with you will go through your birth notes prior to the appt, and will talk you through the birth and answer any questions you may have.

Having a healthy and happy baby goes some way to help the healing (mental not physical!) but it doesn't heal you totally.

Yes, my MIL keeps on making similar suggestions. I know I should be grateful, but it gets my back up.

ILTMIMI I never had any kind of debrief on T's birth, and TBH it never really occurred to me, but the feelings I have haven't really reduced over time as I thought they would, and have been brought right back to the forefront of my mind with this reminder. I think it could possibly be a very useful thing to do, how do I go about arranging it? Talk to GP? Anyone know?

Potxola that helps - the thought that it was my unique experience to get my unique baby. It's a really nice way of looking at the less-than-perfect times.

Pacita I know what you mean - I was always able to ignore 'good' birth stories when it was people I didn't know, but somehow the idea that someone I know and care for (and who is similar to me in many ways, physical and mental) had it go right when it went so wrong for me brought it home much more.

Starlight I expect I am projecting this 'perfect' birth on her when it wasn't as perfect as all that, and I must make sure I'm understanding and a good friend when it inevitably gets tougher at some point - I have one friend who had the 'baby pinks' where she was ridiculously happy for about 8 weeks, then came down with a thud, so I should make sure I'm a good friend in case something similar happens to this friend.

Carriebo I think I was sort of thinking I could gloss over the drama of T's birth because I'll get a CS next time, so won't have to go through labour again, but I think now that perhaps, as you say, a 'good' birth won't erase the memory of T's awful one.

He is a brilliant baby, and is healthy, hardly ever whinges and sleeps really well now and eats and all the rest, and I should thank my lucky stars for what I have.

MIL was asking again when she'll get to have him over night/for a weekend. She is obsessed with this, and I told her in no uncertain terms that I'm not in any kind of rush to leave him overnight, as I'm not remotely stressed by it, and, crazy as it sounds, DP and I actually like spending time with him and don't need a break in any way. I think because her daughter (SIL) really enjoyed having breaks from her son and didn't cope so well, and she very much enjoyed being the rescue party <<bad thoughts about MIL emoticon>>

Thank you so much for all the kind words. I will have a proper read through them in a bit - MIL is here and it would be a shame to burst into tears or something equally embarrassing in front of her!

Had a lovely lovely day at a local country show today, which I was completely against going to as I thought it would be crap, then had to eat my words

<waves to foul Ponymum> Its been dh's birthday, a friends 30th and some bad internet access that's stopped me being here for a few days!

hopefully I really feel your pain. Whenever one of my friends has a baby and says the birth was 'fine' or is now a distant memory, I feel more and more disappointed at what a disaster dd's birth was. I had a wonderful birth with ds, but instead of 'healing' the memory of dd's, it further emphasised how bad was. I think about it often, in fact yesterday I burst into tears in the shower coz I was running through in my head what I wished I'd screamed at the midwives on the postnatal ward at the time...except of course I didn't know what sort of help to ask for, and I'm not the screaming type! If we do ever have no3 then I think I'll ask for trauma counselling over no1 before the birth.

I'm trying to be very philosophical about swine fle, I'm generally quite a pragmatic person, but we're all going away to London next weekend and although I feel confident in my own ability to fight it, what about my dcs...?

Brief house update: we showed round the lovliest couple on wed, and we would love them to live here! I could tell they liked the house - the woman was talking about where all her stuff would go. But they're viewing other properties over the weekend so we'll have to see this week. Friday's viewing was cancelled...about 10mins after i'd finished cleaning the house. Grr!

Potxola Where will your mum be then? Will she see your children at all?

Hopefully You aren't envious of your friends birth, you are envious of all births that were better than yours and why shouldn't you be? Your friends is just a close to home example. And I can tell you something else too, she isn't coping half as well as she seems to be. Motherhood takes such a huge adjustment and she's probably about to enter the baby blues too. It's a cultural thing in our society to go through all of this pretending that everything is fine and we don't need support

She may also have some birth deamons too. I don't know anyone who doesn't actually.

Pacita I think your post is a summary of an average birth in the uk. Shocking!

Hopefully, I feel envy too. You hear those stories of yoga breathing mothers who sigh their baby out. Or the pool births where the baby swims up to the surface in complete silence and latches on. It could have been choreographed by Michel Odent, no?

But from my envy I conjure up this rebellious need to reappropriate Diego's birth, all 22 hours of it: the makeshift labour ward, the pain, the breathing for nothing, the failed epidural that followed, the double episiotomy, the three consecutive midwives (heartless, clueless and cold respectively), and the fact that I had to demand being given back my baby the moment he was born.

And here we are despite it all, and more importantly, here are our babies. And we love them fiercely no matter what.

I have not spoken about the birth much either, but if that's what you need, tell us, thell your DP, tell a friend, write it in your diary. And be proud of yourself above all.

Hopefully It is normal that you feel like that.
It was not an easy birth and you could not do the things your friend is doing now,but(this may help you) that was the birth of your own special and unique baby, the one is still with you and will bring you many happiness.You are a great mum and did what you could at the time. Maybe the experience at the time was more intense because of pain, but it was your sand unique.
I had to return to hospital after coming home from the c section ans stayed for a week in the ward after that. I felt like "Why me? Why can't I be at home like other mums?
I then, started thinking of that as "my experience" however painful it was and it did help me. I stopped comparing myself with the tipical mother who has a troublefree birth, a baby who does not cry or complain,sleeps through the night and eats everything.
Lots of hugs.
Keep on telling us how you feel. It is normal to feel envious. I would, it is ok.

That's not a me me me post at all Hopefully, infact it's a very normal post from someone who has suffered a degree of birth trauma.

It is very important that you talk about what you went through, and very normal (and ok) that you are envious of your friends birth.

I would suggest you sit down with your dp and talk about what happened and how it makes you feel. Do not hold back, say exactly how it is. I believe facing it head-on is a way to start exorcising the demons that lurk about T's birth. Your dp also needs to talk about as it has obviously affected him too.

Did a MW or any other health professional ever de-brief you about T's birth? Is it something you would be interested in? It's never too late. It will be upsetting at the time, but ultimately there may be some answers for you.

Hugs to you both xxx

Anyone fancy giving me a virtual slap? I feel so awful for feeling this way, but I'm incredibly envious of my friend for having a trouble free labour. The awful aftermath of mine (3rd degree tear, in absolute agony for weeks/months, various minor complications) completely ruined the newborn stage for me, and all I remember from the first weeks is a constant round of crying/being in pain/T crying/exhaustion beyond all imagination/not being able to take T for walks in the pram. You know.

My friend is clearly loving the first few days, back home already, BFing going well, no tear, all happy. I'm thrilled for her - I would never wish what I had on anyone else - but just cannot shake this enormous envy of what she's gone through. I tried to talk to DP, and he informed me I was selfish to think that way, so have given up. Don't think he can understand that to me the whole birth experience isn't just something that happened to me, it's inextricably linked up with who I am and how I feel about many things now. He also hates talking about it because he found it so hard to see me suffer, so basically was desperate to end the conversation.

Sorry for me me me post.

Where is jearound?
And mamamuffin?

Ponymum Ohhhhhh. Please believe it is going to happen. We are not old, only older that most of the other mums . Believe you can do it. Visualize yourself with both of them, it does not matter the sex of the next one. Just picture yourself as a mum of 2. That is what I did and it was not the right time to get pregnant, but it was then or never.

Pacita Just like in a scene of one of those Spanish films (espan-oladas). In a convent with a potato and alcohol! That is funny. I just told my dh and he loved the story
Don't worry, Lorea has had a cold for about a week and still has runny nose and sometimes gets really hot. On tuesday we had an appointment with the pediatra in the hospital about what I thought was a lump near her ribs (it is nothing serious,it is not the bone)and I asked her about the cough and runny nose. She sais it was just a cold and I should just give her Calpol to make her more comfortable.

Starlight Always asking the right things. You are a wise woman. I would have to meet you one day.
"Is she keen to have a relationship?" No, she won't be there . She is on her 70s. At the moment she is worried about the fact that she has to move her exercise bike and everything else from the room where my son will be staying into hers. They live in flats, normal in Spain, they have 3 bedrooms, but obviously things will need to be move for us to stay there!! Those comments are said in a funny way, but I know she sort of dislikes the fact that her life is going to be disturbed for 8 days.
They are generous to my kids in other ways, they just don't know how to deal with being grandparents.
The fact they have not met Lorea yet will give me I guess the first 3 days free of criticism. Because of heath problems they won't come here,so it is up to us to go and spend with them our holiday time.

potxola Your LOs are beautiful! I can sympathise on the parent problems. (I could have a whole thread about the problems with my mother.) Also I should say that you are my inspiration for trying to have 2 LOs. You once posted that you achieved your goal of having had 2 LOs by the age of 41. Since then that has been MY goal too! DD was born 6 days before my 40th birthday. If I want a second by 41 I have to conceive by Christmas. I don't know if it can be done, as I am not fully recovered from the SPD yet, and it took us well over a year to conceive DD... but I can hope!

ILTMIMI There is no need to cringe about the foal/foul thing! It was a clever (if accidental) joke on DD's activities.

pacita I was also taken by my aunt to have my ears pierced! But I was 15 so probably OK.

Aaaargh! Still obsessing over the moving house question. We looked at another house yesterday with a huge walled garden. After much debate DH and I decided last night that we have made a decision to stay here, despite not having a garden, just a large courtyard. So I spent today digging 12 sq m of gravel with a snow shovel and a hoe, to see whether it is possible to put down some lawn. Very satisfying, but strange nesting instinct reaction!

Where is carriebo? How is your house selling going?

Potxola, ah, the ear piercing debate. I have not had any of that because Diego is a boy, but I think I'd just laugh it off. If she wants her ears pierced she can have it done when she's older.

I remember that my parents (who were the hippies in the family) did not pierce my ears, so my aunt took me to have then pierced when I was nine. Looking back it was a bizarre experience. The procedure was carried out by the nuns in a convent, who put a piece of raw potato behind my ear, and pierced me with a huge needle. You could tell they did not do it very often, and the old nun doing it had shaky hands. I can remember it to this day. Then they applied alcohol to disinfect - it stung so much! At the end of the procedure my aunt produced a box with tiny gold and pearl earrings which had to go in (and stay in) until my earlobes healed, so that the piercing wouldn't close. The funny thing is, I never even remember to put on earrings these days, although I was dead proud of my pearls back then. I guess it's a cultural thing. It just feels so remote now.

So yes, I think you are right to let Lorea make her mind up when she grows older.

Everyone in Spain will adore her, she's such a cutie.

Diego still has a cough. I can't help fretting although he's eating well and has no temperature... How are the rest of the coughing LOs doing?

pacita don't feel bad, sounds quite cute! There's nothing wrong with sleeping sitting up, dh does it all the time

potxola your children are beautiful and look so happy.

I saw a girl in the park the other week who was about 2 and had those huge gold hoop earrings in, she was also being 'looked after' by a teenage girl who was drinking alchopops in the park! Made me cringe.

We went to a family open day at dh's work today. DS2 went on the bouncy castle and loved it. He also loved the farm animals they had there. He growls at any animal or picture of animal that he sees, very cute.
The other thing he laughed a lot at was going on dh's shoulders, he found that hilarious.

Potxola It is not usual here to have babies ears pierced, but I guess you know that. It does happen, but it is usually (but not always) the lower classes, - not sure why.

Is your mum keen to have a relationship with your children?

Remember that, to some extent, your children are benefiting from your experiences as a child.

*Pacita & Digital girl* Thaks. I am visiting family in August (8 days is more than enough)and expect lots of compliments from friends Nobody there has met Lorea yet.
I never thought I was going to enjoy so much buying dresses for her.
Pacita, what do you think about having a baby girl in this country and having her wearing small earings? For the others, that is a custom in Spain.
Well I am not doing it. Some stupid friends of my mum have seen photos of Lorea and said she looks like a boy because she does not have earings!!!!!!!!!!!! By the way my mum wants me to go to a pharmacy in Spain and have her ears pierced.
IN HER DREAMS!!!!!!!!
My son used to fall asleep like that too , it did not matter he was in a Grobag. It is only a phase pacita
I did not take my son to the last 2 weeks of nursery because of some cases of swine flue

digi - I have to check myself and keep the whole swine flu thing in perspective, however if I didn't have to put ds into childcare then I wouldn't. It's a risk wherever you go, but if I can avoid it then I will.

With the Autumn and Winter seasons coming up it has also reinforced my thoughts about carrying on bf'ing M. If I can help him through the cough and cold season, then that's a good thing.

I am still having a bit of a cringe over the whole foul/foal thing

potxola they are gorgeous!! They're very lucky to have a mum like you.

pacita Diego sounds very determined to sit up! DS insists on standing in his cot when he wakes, he has never ever sat back down or lay down on his own.

Am also concerned about Swine Flu. DS was due to start going to nursery two days a week in September, but they still don't have a spare place for him and I can't say I'm particularly eager to get him in there. Doesn't seem to make sense seeing as I don't have a job. He was put on the waiting list when I thought I'd be going back to my old job. But I don't even have any freelance work lined up for September so it seems a bit pointless to put him at risk right now.

Rereading this, it sounds like I left him up after I went in. Can i reassure you that I didn't - he HAD been falling asleep sitting for 5 mins when I walked in. Doh.

I feel terrible!!! You know how yesterday I was saying that Diego sits up in his cot at nap times and screams until I go and lie him down? Well, today we started the same routine, only after the second time the screaming stopped really quickly. I waited a bit and then went to check and the poor little mite was falling asleep sitting up. I left him for at least 5 minutes with his head bobbing up and down, wanting to fall asleep.

Will he learn to lie back down as proficiently as he sits up?

Potxola they are such beautiful, smily kids! Of course you are super proud. How could you not be?

they are funny things, families, aren't they? That's why sometimes it suits one to be in a different country...

I have just put more photos on

Hi meglet Its very odd...I know it would be mad for me to have any more dc...my poor old body couldnt take it and dh would be on the first plane to Rio when the little blue line showed up but its so....final isnt it?

My mum had the op you are having some years ago and it literally changed her life.....and she has had no problems with HRT either. Best of luck, I will be thinking of you x

I know what you mean re: swine flu. The BBC GP was on this morning and she said at risk groups included those with asthma and babies...well, guess what? My dh and ds1 have asthma and T is a baby....am now really worried

Off to take ds1 to karate now....have a good weekend ladies x

Hi *Meglet and Star* It is the first time I talk about it.
She was always an amazing mum when I was younger. My father was always the bully,always telling us children we were not good enough and they NEVER praised us.
So much that I always keet a low profily in school. I studied just what I needed for an average qualification. I worked out that if my qualification was very low I would be verbally punished and if it was the best in the class, they will ignore it, saying that was expected of me (that felt really bad). Great, isn't it?
It was only as I got older and went to Uni I stopped expecting praise and started to study and achieve excellent results. (It was good for my confidence)
Now my father is fragile and old my mum has become the hard one, saying things to me you wouldn't believe. It is only when I tell someone and get a reaction I realised it is not on to say things like that.

Yes Star I am everything you picture and I don't mind saying it. I don't have lots of things to be proud of, but my kids(you have seen them in photos) are my threasure , especially because I have had to protect them from all that psicological abuse . ( You probably don't remember but we are not in touch with my mother and father in law. they havenever met my 5 yr old son)
Gosh, I have really opened something here!
I am 42 and still hurts when my mum says something awful to me, sad isn't it.
Lorea will not have that problem, I will put now a new photo in my profile.

Starlight perhaps they ask really difficult questions to distract you from the pain

Potxola I hope I don't cause offence here, and I know nothing really about you and your mum, but it sounds to me that there is an element of emotional abuse there.

Don't appologise to us, but do consider why your mum would want you to feel the awful feelings that those images conjure up and why she would want you to think that she doesn't think you are a very good mother.

Sorry if I've misunderstood!

BTW, I've always pictured you as a lovely earthmothery type who cares very much for her children and who is absolutely in love with them.

poxtola Sorry your mum isn't supportive. Why does she feel the need to tell you all the scare stories?

Yeah. What can I say about my mum? Always critizicing me, comparing me with other mums and of course ignoring what a great job I have done bringing up my 2 kids without her help.
I swear I will be there for my kids ALWAYS
I am sorry again. I suppose I didn't think it could upset you girls

Becaroo We will be thinking of you.It is normal you feel sad, allow yourself to go through those feelings.Like Pacita said, you will feel better after.

at clever DD Meglet!

How does Q&A help you get through a birth?

digital <<gives a round of applause for your new sleeping DS>>

becaroo I understand how you feel having your op . Its such an abrupt end to the possiblity of more children, especially when you're not old. I have the odd moment of moping about not having any more dc's (even though I decided it would be impractical / risky / financial suicide to have any more) but my sensible side keeps giving me a slap and reminding me I have 2 adorable dc's and to stop stressing. I have to confess to having phantom pregnancy feelings since I knew I would be going to hospital, my round tummy isn't due to not going to the gym since April, it's a freakily small 7 month pregnancy bump , that I have had periods all the way through and no sickness . The nurse told me I have to take a urine sample with me next Tuesday morning so they can do a pregnancy test before they operate, it will be the last one I'll have.

My fun news of the day is that DD climbed the stairs for the first time. Me and DS were at the top calling her up and my mum was right behind her in case she slipped. Poor little mite looked shattered by the time she got to the top.

Little boy, 8lb 4-ish, apparently the birth went really well (she was going to try to get through it on tens, hypnobirthing techniques and Q&A, but haven't spoken to her yet to know if she did or not). She gave birth at about 6pm, so was in labour for a good 14 hours, which doesn't sound much fun!
Although she has taken the name I would have probably used if we have another boy!! I'll forgive her though, since we never even told anyone we were 'saving' it

I really want to go and visit asap, but I know how much DP and I valued our space after the birth, so I suppose I'd better wait a little while at least...

Lol at Diego doing sit ups! DS can only do crunches - but the face he pulls when he does it is hilarious!

hopefully, is it a boy or a girl? birthweight? in-a-nutshell birth story?

Oh, the memories, sigh.

Ooh ooh ooh new baby for my friend! So excited. I want to know everything and go and see her and cuddle the new baby. <deep breaths>

Becaroo , I can see why this option feels drastic and makes you sad. Luckily you have a lovely family, and you will feel better after. Like star said, the end of choice is a symbolic milestone, but for what it's worth, I have several friends who have gone through it and they've not looked back.

Potxola, I've heard such horror stories too. It makes me feel so unbelievably sad - I can't even contemplate such horror.

Pony, I've got a bit of swine flu paranoia too. London is swine flu capital, and I think the media are not particularly good at keeping people calm. Diego has been snotty and has a bit of a chesty cough. No temperature and he's in good spirits, but I kind of wonder, should I take him to the doctors, or am I just worrying too much?

Digi HURRAH!!! for the start of more restful nights. If you are anything like me, you probably feel like cotton wool has been removed from inside your brain, because you are at least getting at least 5 hours uninterrupted sleep. I am a big fan of sleep and found it very hard. It's amazing I am now up and ready to go after six hours, and feel lucky if I get them.

Diego sits up from lying down position using his ab muscles like a grown up. He's not exactly on the move just yet, but is trying to pull himself up in the bath, and has mastered the roll, sit up, roll moving routine. Changing his nappy feels like wrestling with an octopus, which means there has been a few leaks on the pant department lately. Luckily today while shopping in central london I had a FULL change of clothes, or I would have had to contend with a pissy wet baby.

I like option a) on the name front.

Definitely Ponymum. Something like swine flu would not even have entered my consciousness normally, and I actually caught myself wondering whether to stock up on tins in case of countrywide shut down the other day...

Still no word from my friend - wonder if she's having a hideously long labour or has had baby and they're too excited to let everyone know yet. I'm on tenterhooks!

Hello, just had a good laugh over the Baby Foal mix up! Baby Ponygirl is honoured to be called a foal! I like the image of a gangly foal on her unsteady legs trying to stand up for the first time! (I thought at first it was a reference to the foul thing she did in the bath!)

I have been worried about swine flu. I have a very strange sore throat and constant low level nausea. But I looked up the symptoms and I'm sure I am fine, as I have no temperature at all. I am only paranoid because the newspaper this morning said infants are at risk so I am worried about DD. I used to never allow myself to think I was sick, in the belief that I would most likely battle my way through it with positive thinking. Am I destined to worry about things like this for the rest of my life, just because I am now a mum?

Poxtola that is awful why would she tell you such things

DH is home but still very weak and tired. I have never seen asthma this bad. I've had it since I was 7 and I have never been hospitalised.
On the downside now he's home Robyn will have to sleep in her cot (he needs to sleep raised up) and she has slept through most of the nights he has been away.
We are almost on the move. Robyn can lean forward and lift her bum up, she has also worked out that one leg goes under her bum and she leans on the other foot. She is just a bit too scared to get moving.

I like (a) and (c)

potxola that is horrible, just horrible why would your mum tell you that story? That poor poor woman.

becaroo sorry to hear about your op. Do you know when it will be?

debs glad to hear your dh is home now.

ninja enjoy your hols.

Well [drum roll] DS slept 8pm till 5am without a peep!!!! Then after a feed and a false start to the day went back to sleep (in our bed) till 9am . He's just now gone down after saying 'teddy' to his little teddy headed blankie. This is night 7 of the cc led bedtime routine, but there's really no real cc'ing to speak of. I know we've probably got a few more hiccups ahead of us but it looks like we've got through the worst of it.....and relaaaaaaaaaax.

Bloody hell Poxtola, that's awful. What an awful awful situation.

FOAL - yes, that's it. I had a complete brain fart over how to spell it.
Please come back Ponymum I didn't mean to be offensive

starlight - I like option a.

I guess it feels like an end of an era and and like Starlight said an end of a choice.

Sorry. I did not mean to make you feel illStar.
It just makes me realise how hard and rewarding is being a good mum.

becaroo Sorry I missed that. I suppose it is sad because it takes away choice.

ILTMITI Not really, but it was a shock at 36 being told that IYSWIM? Its only heavy periods - I really think they should have come up with less drastic alternatives to surgery!! My mum had a hysterectomy at 34 for the same reason and my sis is having a hysterectomy in october due to fibroids - they told her she needed one when she was only 30 so in that sense I am lucky, but I still feel quite sad about it...dont know why....

Don't potxola You're making me feel ill

Have a good trip ninja*

*ILTMIMI How about:

a) Approaching the end of an amazing year
b) 1yr on - Yes we've become baby bores after all but we like it
c) Round and round the garden, with your teddy bear, one sleep, two sleep, are you nearly there?
d) Been a long time, little monkey, walking is in sight!

that is so awful, made my stomach turn reading that. I just can't believe it.

ILTMIMI foal

Hi
Debs75 Have you tried the cereals with water before going to bed? Lorea will have to stay in our bedroom for the time being too.
Did you any of you knew about the mamanatura forum. Those mums are wraps/slings experts. You should see the photos. They have millions. I am getting ideas........

Every month my mum in Spain tells me something awful about a mum.
About a month ago someone I know was having a bath with her 11 months old baby , left her to go and get something and...... You guess
Yesterday a woman who was supposed to leave her baby in the nursery before going to work herself. When she finished work went into her car to go back home and guess what she found in the car..........(don't read if you can imagine what it is.It is awful)



She had left her baby in the carseat for 5 hrs in full heat wave. He/she was dead, the poor thing.
The blame is in the stress working mothers have.
Would you have forgotten you baby like that?
I believe I wouldn't.

I am now having a 'oh shit' moment. I wrote 'Baby Foul' wrt to Ponymum's dd.

I have spelt it correctly haven't I? I mean a baby horse, not something that is horrible [blus]

Oh, and someone has to think of a new title soon. I have done the past 3 so it's time to pass the baton. If no one volunteers, I'll have to shame someone into it

Hope it's not too itchy when it all starts to grow back meglet!

DH's job situation is getting complicated. He's still not heard from the interview last Friday and now has been asked to go for another interview for a different job (well actually it's the same job in another place). But it's the day after we go on holiday. So got to decide if he looks into changing his flight and joining us on hol 2 days late (going with the in-laws so I wouldn't be on my own) or if he hopes they don't appoint and gets an interview after holiday. AAARRRRGGGGHHHHHH Life is so complicated.

thank you ponymum . I know it should be ok (i've had 2 brief GA's before) but I'm more spooked as I'm a mum now. I do like the bit where you feel the GA going up your arm though, very odd!

Yes, I did my own Hollywood. It's fine but doesn't look very lady like, I like Brazillians as they make you look normal from the front, but the bald look is not one I will be continuing with.

Hope you have a lovely break ninja.

Were you planning more babies Becaroo? I guess even if you weren't it's hard having the option taken away from you.

Hurrah for Baby Foul

meglet I have had six GAs for various ops - all went OK! You'll be fine. In fact, I think it's an experience everyone should go through at leat once, just for the novelty factor. The loss of time is the weirdest thing. One moment you are drifting off and the next moment the nurse is saying, 'ok you're just waking up dear, everything went fine'. We will all be thinking of you - and really want to see a post while you are on morphine!

Quick update on us:
- DD is pulling herself up on things to standing... then falling over.
- Last night she said MUMMY!! Now she has been saying Mumumumum all day long.
- DD pooed in the bath. Yes, it was as calamitous as it sounds. DH called out 'DD has pooed in the bath!' I responded (hopefully? idiotically?) with 'Do you want a sieve?'. DH said 'That's really not going to help.' It was a brown soup disaster.
- I did my first piece of mummy-art yesterday! [proud emoticon] A thank you card from DD to some friends who looked after her when I was in hospital. I haven't really got the hang of it though. DD wouldn't put her hand on the paint brush so I pretty much did some pretend baby-style art myself!

Debi thanks! It has happened exactly as you describe. I've been in several times, then let him cry for 5 minutes a couple of times, then gone in and lied him down again, by now totally exhausted, put my hand in his tummy and he was asleep within a minute. I hope he gets it as quickly as your LOs!

the lake district, red squirrels and all!

Off now

dp is allowed home today so just off to get him

pacita ds1 was like that and the only thing that worked was going in, lying him down and leaving again over and over again until the novelty wore off. I seem to remember he cried when he sat/stood up and I think I'd leave him for 5 mins before going back in every time. He did it when he learned to sit and when he learned to stand but both times he only did it for 2 or 3 days before getting the hint.
DS2 does it too but he's quicker on the uptake and only usually stands up once before going to sleep.

Meglet, I'd be way more worried about the hollywood than the op. OUCH!. Did you do it yourself? I mean, I could just about contemplate having one done, but a DIY job is bravery beyond the call of duty.

Ok, I need some tips, please: Diego was the perfect napping boy. He was sleepy, I put him down, he was off. Now he sits up in his cot like a jack in the box even though he is exhausted. I then come, lie him back down again, he closes his eyes, and the moment I disappear from view he sits up again. This cycle is repeated again and again, with him getting more tired and fractious every time.

Does anybody have a similar problem, and what do you do?

Hello all...still not too well but not coughing up phlegm with blood in it anymore so that got to be good, right???

Havent read all the posts as I really should be going to Tesco and cleaning. so very brief post!

Toby now growls in a most amusing way when we do something he doesnt like/dont do something he wants!!! Really hilarious! He is very fast at crawling and pulls up on most things now, inc people!!

Our nights are disturbed too, but we co sleep for part of the night, so its usually brief.

Good luck for next week meglet x

Doc has told me I may need an op (ablation?) which will mean no more babies....bit sad

Hope you and your LO are all well x

Have a lovely hoiliday Ninja. Which CP are you going to?

Meglet did you wax yourself? <gulp>

Good luck for your friend Hopefully.

M is loving crawling. I think he likes the sense of freedom it gives him. He is able to amuse himself a lot more now, he just crawls off into the hallway and chews my shoes. Because it's all on his own terms he doesn't mind if he can't see me. He's getting very red knees from the carpet though!

Good luck for Tuesday Meglet I can't imagine waxing everything (or anything there for that matter). Luckily DH likes me with a full lady garden

Sorry for the poor sleep - it doesn't have to be like that a second time. M is MUCH better thatn dd1, just wakes once (or sometimes not at all) in the night now.

Feeling v. bad mummy though as she woke in the night and I fed her, she was then restless a few mins later so I jsut resettled her and when she woke this morning she was dirty . The thing is she'd already got a bit of nappy rash and we were using disposibles yesterday as we're goign away today so that didn't help, and now she's really red and sore

I'm away for a week today - yipeee! At Center Parcs - yipee I think . Let's hope for good weather.

My best friend is in labour! I am so excited I can't sit still. Really hope it all goes well for her, can't wait to hear news! Labour is so much more fun when it's happening to other people

I would like to announce that I have done my Hollywood wax in preparation for my op next week. It hurt. A lot. And I look like an alien freak now . It's odd they need it for a hysterectomy but not a c-section.

Mind you, I ran out of wax strips near the end, so I have a bit more to take off underneath once I've been to the fabric shop tomorrow .

hopefully + debi of your exercise.

I did literally about 10 minutes of yoga the other day (probably not even that), and the ache in my abs has only just gone . Think I need to crack on with it a bit more! Really want to lose a bit more weight before we think about TTC again.

and no I'm not bothered about not doing the triathlon- mainly because it was the same weekend as the rugby league in Edinburgh so I couldn't have done it anyway.
I have started running again tho in a far too late attempt to lose some belly fat before going on holiday. Been 3 times this week

I like that Starlight but haven't copied anything since putting this comp on. If I was on laptop my letter to my head teacher would have been on it.
And I like that I'm mentioned in the 1st post!

hopefully of your veg growing. I can't even pull a few weeds out ds will not let me put him down.

leonie and splish you have my sympathies

debs hope your dh gets better soon

I had a smug moment the other day - when I was pregnant I proudly announced to my mother and her friend that I would grow veg when I had more time on maternity leave. They all laughed cynically and made rude comments, which really annoyed me at the time. I took enormous delight in reminding my mother of that the other day when she was expressing envy over my tomato plants (and I've grown other stuff too!)

Sorry to those with rubbish nights atm. Hope things improve quickly.

Debi I don't spend a lof of time reading the antenatal threads but I do find it interesting to see how far we have all come. How our hopes have panned out and how we have changed in our outlook. Like your triathalon comment. It's very funny but sweet at the same time. I'm sure you're not a bit bothered that you didn't do it, and yet it was an enthusiastic plan once.

i rely on a lot of caffeine, and live every day for bedtime. its a shit way to live, really, in a haze, but there you go. DD1 was like this until she was 3, even though she was forcibly night weaned at 18mo because i had glandular fever and just couldnt do it any more, but she still woke up anyway. We had a second child knowing it would probably be the same, and it is, and that's okay. We won't be having any more though!! xx thanks guys

I'm actually going to die when T (inevitably) wakes in the night again - we haven't been disturbed at all between about 10pm and 5am for about a month, so it'll come as a horrible shock when he's next teething or something.

pidge and mustsleep, they're 2 other people we haven't heard from postnatally.

And hahahahaha hahahaha hahahaha at "I said the other day that I want to do the Fleet triathlon (only a small one) in May next year as I thought that would be a good time scale to aim for something."
Yeah right! I forgot I'd said that. Clearly I didn't do it.

I was going to moan about being up since 6 but I won't now. Feel so sorry for you leonie and splish (and the others whith no sleep), you deserve medals for just staying alive and getting to the end of each day in 1 piece. I am not good at all with no sleep.

debs hope your dh improves quickly now that he's on the right drugs, I'd never really thought about how serious asthma can be in adults- seen children bad with it but not adults.

meglet I think you should post when you're on morphine- could make very entertaining reading!

starlight do you spend a lot of time readin the antenatal threads? I was a tad confused by your post to start with! And yes I did remember it, it's the same day as my parents so that helps. Brings back memories of missing our flight, stuffing our faces in the BA lounge at terminal 5 when they felt sorry for me and my big bump and ceilidh dancing with lots of people looking concerned that they might have to hlp deliver a baby any minute.

so sorry Leonie and Splish. I had a marginally better night last night, only one waking, but insomnia kicked in and was awake tossing and turning most of the night. It's true, it makes it difficult to enjoy things when you are shattered and can't think. I sometimes feel someone has put mashed potato where my brain used to be.

What can one do?

Splisah - sounds like my life most nights.... last night: DD2 in bed at 8, up for a slurp at 10.45 when i went to bed. Up at 1, 2.30, 4, 5.30, 6.30 and then up for the day at 7.45. That is a typical night for us, 9.5 months running. Add to it DD1 having nightmares and being wound up about the end of school, and up once or twice a night, and I'm permanently shattered... i can't think enough or have enough memory to do or enjoy anything i used to, and it sucks.

Sooooo tired.
dd2 went to sleep at 7pm. Woke at 9, 11, 1.
dd2 woke at 2.30 wanting a wee. dd2 then woke at 4, 4.25, 6, and all up for the day at 7

Debs hiding your coat and shoes is so sweet! I do hope you are all reunited this weekend. Healing vibes to dp.

Meglet, you are super brave. Loads of luck for next week. What day is the op?

Starlight He was fine the first night but by the 2nd he was looking around for him and being unsettled. I've told him that dad is working nights and will be home soon. It has been easier then i thought it would as my mum has been there to help get him to bed and make tea. That is unusual for us so I think he knows something is up but as he can't talk to us about it he is acting up a bit for attention.
When dp comes home he will probably dive on him so he can't get away again. When I brought Robyn home he took my coat and shoes off and hid them so I couldn't go away again.

Debs - sorry to hear about your dh, I hope he feels better soon.

Good luck for next week Meglet. I'll be thinking of you and sending lots of healing vibes your way.

Hopefully - I really don't think you need to worry. M didn't put weight through his feet for ages. Then all of a sudden he's crawling, sitting himself up and pulling himself up. It really did happen in a short space of time and it's not unusual for some children to start walking until they are 18 months. Infact my bil didn't walk until he was 2.

starlight much more nervous . I think its the GA that makes it more scary. Once I'm awake again I'll be happy.

debs75 your poor dp. I hope the asthma settles down and he is home soon.

Debs75 Hope your DP begins to feel better now you all know what you are dealing with. How is DS taking it?

Meglet Are you more nervous about this than childbirth?

starlight It might not be such a bad thing if i can't get on-line for a couple of days. I'm going to be wasted on morphine for some time, heaven knows what I'd start chuntering on about .

Thought I'd update you DP is still in hospital and has been diagnosed with Asthma. He is on a nebuliser, steroids and an inhaler. If he can go tomorrow without the nebuliser then he can come home on Friday
Unfortunately he has to use it if he takes a short walk so will prob stay in for the whole weekend.
I've had asthma for over 20 years and have never got as bad as him so is a bit scary. Robyn sees him every afternoon but DS can't go into the hospital as no under 12's are allowed on the wards and I think he would get too upset anyway.
On the plus side I have the bed to myself I can go on MN allnight and can watch what I want on telly

Debi Did you remember your brother's wedding anniversery?

digital at your ds's cigarette butt obsession! I've had to cut back on dd's time in the garden as she eats everything. Last week I found pebbles and bits of grass in her mouth.

Thanks for all your good wishes for my op next week. I have to admit that I'm not at all calm and collected about it in real life, I'm not sleeping until gone midnight as I'm too on edge. The GP did give me 4 diazepan (valium?) tablets to calm me down a bit. I've had the odd half a tablet on the evenings when I'm stressed. Mind you now they've all been used I won't have any more, I can assure you my life isn't turning into Valley of the Dolls .

welcome back splish and sunflower!

Sunflower Lovely to see you again

Carrie Good luck with the house. Very exciting.

Leonie I understand your concerns. I hope it all evens out.

Meglet Tis bollox that you can't use your mobile phone. I have friend who is an intensive care nurse and she says the doctors all use their mobile phones on the ward. Tis just a way of supplementing their dire funding, by charging for THEIR phones.

Kagey Hope you had a lovely birthday

Hopefully Nothing wrong with T. Do you have a 9/10 month HV appointment for reassurance. When meeting any mums who have 'advanced' children just say 'he he, - your dd is so advanced, she'll probably be having sex when she is 8!' That will remove them from your friendship circle quick sharp!

Hi Sunflower! Glad everything's going well.

T had a mini-meltdown at baby group today, for no apparent reason , but is otherwise being very easy at the moment. the napping is still crap, but it's nice that he seems to either sleep well at night or well in the day - I couldn't cope if all sleep was rubbish!

Someone at baby group was making me paranoid that T (a) isn't remotely interested in crawling and (b) won't weight bear if held with his feet to the floor (he will very occasionally, but only for a second or two, and not very well). Anyone else in similar situation and want to make me feel better? Apparently DP did bugger all till he was 18 months, so I've probably got a long wait for any reassurance from T...

ooooo sounds hopefully carriebo*

*iom how did work go? Was C ok?

pacita yesterday when dh got home from work he spotted that ds2 had something in his mouth- turned out to be a bit of stone he must have got from a friends plantpot about an hour earlier!
He puts everything he picks up in his mouth.

I've just spent ages catching up again, and my memory is shocking, so sorry if I leave anyone out

Meglet - , the only waxing I've ever had was eyebrows, and that was bad enough, cannot imagine what you're contemplating - my eyes are watering at the very thought. Good luck with the op as well - I hope you manage to savour the nappy free days and some sleep-ins

Debs - hope your dp is recovering well, sounds scary

Sunshine - if Effy's breathing isn't great and the GP thinks it's possible she could be heading towards another bout of croup, can't he refer her to respiratory consultant? Doesn't sound like a very helpful GP

Potxola - I had the fleecy Calin Bleu which I really liked, til it got so hot - I thought about the gauze one, it lokos pretty, but I was trying to save money so in the end I just bought a length of cotton and got it hemmed and voila, my own wrap - cooler and just as supportive, though slightly harder to judge putting it on without the stretch factor.

Sleep - C was waking once or twice, but the last few nights it feels like she wakes on the hour. She's had a cold for about 12 days, and had a really high temperature a week ago - the dr didn't see her as they won't let anyone with flu symptoms in - he would have given tamiflu, but as she'd been unwell for a few days before her temp was high, he didn't as he said it should be given within the first 48hrs to be effective.
Anyway - I dodn't know if that's what is waking her, but I'm feeling shattered. She's sleeping in ed with me - when she wakes, she's rolling & getting stuck, or sad, or trying to crawl, and blundering about, waking herself more, then I either have to get up, take her in another room to wail, thrash about for a few minutes before falling asleep again, or feed her back to sleep for fear of waking dd1.... just hope it's a phase / the cold whatever.

Leonie - congratulations on the walking, though sorry you've got other concerns

Carrie - good luck with the viewing - are you still looking at houses as well?
Keep meaning to take dds to church, as i went when i was young, but haven't for years - keep remembering half way through Sunday that I've missed it again. But the other day went to something called Messy Church, where the kids play, sing, dance, listen to a short story, then go and do craft things losely connected with the theme, then all have tea together - it seems like a great idea, and dd1 really enjoyed it

Wow, what a long post.......

Oh, and sorry to hear about starting nursery woes - C wails tragically if anyone holds her at the moment, and I feel guilty having a quick cup of tea at playgroups, so it must be tough. I'm sure they will settle in the end, but if not, a childminder culd be an option. It's hard at any age - my 3 year old still sometimes grips my leg, and often cries when she goes to pre school, and I feel guilty for sending her even for a few hours twice a week.

Hi there sunflower, happy birthday kagey for yesterday, and bucket loads of encouragement for meglet!

We also had a terrible night's sleep out of both dcs last night, I'm sure its the high air pressure or something! Or the fact that dd is cutting molars and ds is cutting his second front top tooth, its blistered today so hopefull will be through tomorrow. Also he rolls onto his front in bed then cries coz he doesn't like being there and can't roll back! I've done the patented GF trick of tucking him in very tightly with a sheet, which is held in place with rolled up blankets shoved between the matress and the cot bars. I defy that boy to roll tonight!

Well on the house front...tonight's viewers were a lovely family where the mum is a housewife (like me), the dad is a computer programmer (like dh) and even has the same name as dh, they have a son who is between my two dcs in age, and they're Christians and know some of the same people we know. They were soooo lovely, we'd be thrilled if they bought our house. Trying not to get my hopes up though <clearly getting my hopes up emoticon>

I've finally got an evening to myself, dh is at footy and will go for a drink after coz its his birthdya, and I have nothing I need to get done (except the washing up) so I'm having a glass of wine and spending some quality time wtih myself. And you guys of course

LOL, so glad to know I'm not the only mum to a dustbin-man wannabe.

Digi, I just came back from Clissold park, where I had to wrestle with DS to remove a fag end from his clenched fist! He thought it was the best find ever. Bleurgh.

Lol pacita ds seems irresistably drawn to cigarette butts on the pavement. One of these days he'll get to one before I have a chance to grab him and then I'll be posting 'help my child has just swallowed a dirty fag end, should I take him to A&E to get his stomach pumped?'

Pacita - DD2 has eaten dirt, fluff, tree bark, grass, god knows what else... i'm always finding grass in her nappy... it'll be ok.

DG glad the comfort toy is working. If only the could be comforted by said toy at ungodly hours such as 5:30 AM. Yawn.

somebody please tell me it's ok: I just caught diego intently chewing something with his toothless gums. It turned out to be a FILTHY pastic cap from a door stopper. It took some manoeuvring to extract it from his mouth. And it was filthy, i tell you.

hi sunflower! glad to hear all is well with your dd.

meglet good luck with the op. And best of luck with the Hollywood wax (take some paracetemol before you go in!).

But pacita the comfort toy does work! Only used it for the second time last night but apparently (dh does bedtime) he smiles and gives it a little snuggle before falling asleep.

Ds self settled at 11 last night and then needed 30mins of cc at 2:30. Then woke refreshed and ready to start the day at 5:30!!

Hi everyone!! haven't been around for months!!! I spent 3 hours catching up on these last 35 pages last night! so apologies of I don't mention everyone (my fluey head can only take so much!) - had such a laugh when I got to starlight's link to the Hopefully's list, DP though I was delirious (it was nearly 1am!!)

anyway, sorry to hear about poorly LOs and mummies! Meglet all the best for next week! hope all feel better soon

Here all is ok, a part from having come down with flu (don't know if it is swine flu, but given the meds just in case - I think it was more of a case of being run down after finishing anti-b course of the 4th bout of tonsillitis this year). Anyway, DD's pure joy. We should have called her Dusty (as in dustbin) as she eats EVERYTHING! sometimes she even eats more than her big brother! and she's only cut her first tooth, only felt it earlier!! she's very chatty and noisy, can be quite a handful and goes "a-ah" when she knows she's doing s.thing she's not supposed too, was very interested in walking but less so now that she's mastered crawling, little speedy. she's still not a great day sleeper, a part from this sort of time in the morning, but some days are better than others. some nights she's up til 10, but I think that was because of the heat as it's when it started.

I'm still bfing 2-3 times a day, we've had a bit of struggle recently but it seems to be recovering. still feel cheated though that AF came back a couple of months ago and very heavy (sorry TMI ) so really thinking of having coil now... boh. I'll be back to work on 1 sept, but first I'm off to italy for a month.

anyway, will try and pop in more often!! Nice to see you're still here!

Bad night here too. Serves me right for extolling the virtues of comfort toys. Bah. Up since 5:30.

I'm hoping to read a whole book on holiday this year (going with the inlaws who are very good at entertaining the boys). I sometimes read on the loo but only about 2 pages at a time (yes tmi I know)

Half asleep today even after tea and coffee. Don't know why but maybe something to do with being woken before 6 by ds2 who stood up in his cot then fell over with an almighty crash and then screamed the house down waking everyone inc ds1 and half the street.

Oh I watched the credit crunch thing - what a let down. Banker with no emotions or feelings, nothing apart from his job, terrible relationship with his daughter. I was just waiting for the coke to come out.

And you just knew the other guy was going to lose his job and not be able to get another one.

Effy isn't too bad. Not sleeping too well and having lots of Calpol.

DD2 was hellbent on independent mobility - she rolled at 10 weeks ffs, and has been pushing the envelope since then.

On the other side, we have very little communicationm from her apart from screaming. She does clap her hands but not in response to you. No syllables, just random shouts, and no waving bye bye, an apparent complete non-understanding of what is going on around her apart from 'nummies' and 'daddy' and 'rachel' - other than that, she isnt interested in the world at all in that way, just in biting, hitting, and tearing up things.

So, whilst it may seem cool, it is actually evidence of uneven development, just like DD1, and she was diagnosed aged 3.5 with autism...

Poor EFFY I hope she feels better soon and the docs start being a bit more helpful. Give her lots of hugs from us all.

Meglet you sound very calm and ready for the op, enjoy the rest and nappy free time.
I hear books are great too at least you can't delete a full page by accident

oh, what channel?

hopefully OMG, I am watching that too! Really frightening.

meglet I'm glad the pre-op went well, you sound very well prepared. Of all that you have described (the operation, no MN, etc) the thing that I find most frightening is the full wax!

Meglet you're so calm in the face of the operation - am so impressed!

Sunshine poor little Effy. hope there's no scary attacks.

Happy birthday Kagey!

T has been pretty easy the past few days - not waking and going into the pram until after 6am, once he even got through to 7am and time to get up for the day!

Watching the enormously depressing drama about the credit crunch at the moment - it is a complete cliche and very depressing. Makes me feel lucky about my nice and easy life though!

oh, and, this is the worst part. They are quite strict about not allowing mobile phones on the ward so I won't be able to use my crackberry and mn + fb for a few days [hyperventilates].

I have heard there are things called books and newspapers that have words on them like the internet does, I might have to track some down .

Ok, I've caught up now!

lolly sorry to hear your ds has been so poorly. Tonsilitis is horrible. I won't be able to meet up before my op as I have lots to organise before next week, pah!

debs hope your dp is much better soon.

leonie round of applause for your walking dd!

dg glad you're hanging in there with cc and you've got bedtimes sorted.

I agree with the boys clothes problem debi. I wanted garden / messing around sandals for ds and thought Primark would do some, but no, they only do girls shoes ! And only girls sunglasses. And only a couple of boys hats, but loads for girls.

I had my pre-op today. I have to say that the gynae ward is a million times nicer than maternity. Op will be tues morning and they won't even bother to take the catheter out or get me out of bed until thursday . The sad thing is that the dc's can't visit until the thursday as they don't have children on the ward and I will be attached to lots of tubes on the weds and still very groggy. One good thing though is that I won't have to change a nappy for weeks - I'm trying to look on the bright side!

And I have to remove all my hair down there, well at the front . I have a leg wax booked this week, I might be brave and get them to whip everything off!

Aw thanks chaps for the birthday wishes. I got a nice bag and top and oddly, the bumper book of useless information, which I suspect DH got for me as he would like to read it

I have a belly full of choccy cake and I am going to bed for some zzzzz's (two years ago it was all about partying now it's all about catching up on sleep) - nighty night! x

Happy birthday kagey hope you get a good pressie!

sunshine poor little Effy, I do hope it is just teething. Must be awful watching her get so ill all the time.

leonie that is very impressive! DS wants to walk everwhere but still doesn't have the confidence to let go of my hands. He won't even use the push along walker.

I think my last post was misleading - my job for the enemy is only a freelance project finishes next week but am pleased to get a bit of extra money in before my other contract starts. Also means I didn't make a complete pigs ear of the first project if they've asked me to do this second one.

Ds went down without a peep tonight as he did last night. Still prepared for him to wake again later (as he did last night), but at least we've got bedtimes cracked!

lol Debi it makes me smile when I see that advert too!

Happy Birthday Kagey

Happy birthday kagey

Poor Effy, must be so frustrating and horrible seeing her so ill.

imo it should get better, hopefully C will get used to nursery and the people there soon.

ninja I saw your name plastered across a bus stop on a Tango advery today!

Happy birthday Kagey.

And Sunshine, what a bad run for you and Effy. I do hope she's on the mend very very soon.

Happy birthday Kagey!

Imo no words of wisdom here either, suffice to say I'll probably go through the same thing next month - so not looking forward to it. Just see how it goes and I'll keep my fingers crossed.

Sunshine sorry you are so down and how frustrating for you and Effy - big hugs to you both.

Meglet best of luck for your op and a speedy recovery!

Debs sorry to hear about your DH too - again hope for a speedy recovery and be home real soon.

Congrats Leonie! E cruises but still very wobbly when not clutching onto furniture.

Finally happy birthday to me!!!! I'm desperate for DH to come home so I can open my present and card <big kid emoticon>.

DD wants to walk but isn't quite there yet. She's cruising everywhere though.

Those struggling with nursery you just need to stick it out - it will get better. We moved house when DS was 14m, so he moved to a new nursery. The first 6 weeks were hellish. He'd cry his eyes out when we dropped him off, and when I called later on to check how he was I'd be able to hear him crying still in the background. He then made friends with a little boy called Charlie and hasn't looked back since.

I'm a bit down today about Effy. After the last bout of croup I really thought she was over the worst but she's started to get ill again this week. We took her to the GP yesterday but was told she's just teething and we have to get through it but it's the same symtoms as she's had for the last six weeks - runny nose, bad nappy rash, in pain pulling her ear, temp, not sleeping and voice/breathing starting to go funny again. She's been awake every two hours for the last couple of nights so we're shattered but we haven't been given anything to help her through, just told to give her Calpol. The GP did say only the hospital can deal with any further croup attacks as they're the only people allowed to prescribe Dexamethasone (sp!) but if she does have another attack it will be quite a lot for a child her age so we should request a referral to a respiratory consultant at the hospital. So we're left watching our little girl be unwell and miserable, waiting for her to have another frightening attack

ds2 has started walking across the room or garden holding onto his toddle truck. Doesn't like you holding his hands though and doesn't generally show much interest in walking.

Can't believe how fast he can spot the living door is open, get to it and get up the stairs though. Scary!

potxola that's interesting what the nursery teacher said to you as I was told by the doc that most people with swine flu have a cough and as ds1 had all the flu symptoms except the cough it probably wasn't swine flu but he couldn't be sure. I'm beginning to wonder if docs are just telling people it probably isn't to try and calm everyone down about it.

Got annoyed today, shops have hardly any summer stuff in already and I've been penalised by having boys- there's loads of girls clothes everywhere but hard;y any boys.

leonie well done on having the first independent walker!

Ds is still gloriously stationary he's clearly had a growth spurt though, he's suddenly at the top of his baby carseat! Explains what all the 5-6am wakings last week were about...!

Debs, really scary about your DP. Hope he's ok and gets back home soon.

Diego was up at 6:15 today (as was I) and has as a result been a grumpy guy all morning. He then had a 2 hour sleep (I didn't ) and woke up hungry and refreshed. If only I could say the same!

Still no crawling here, although he has mastered the art of going from lying down to sitting, which makes changing his nappy a bit of a wrestling match.

Its madness - she still prefers crawling to get from A to B, but she is lightning quick...

DD1 is learning to like her, getting more familiar, and willingly touching her - which is all good news!

(new photo in profile)

Leopnie that is brilliant well done DD2
I'm sure that there are a few not far behind. Robyn on the other hand is too lazy to try walking. How is DD1 coping with being a big sis?

Robyn loves peek-a-boo, she likes to pop her head around my shoulder to look at people or under her pram hood to smile at us.

Am coping with kids on my own this week as DP has been admitted to hospital with asthma and a suspected blood clot. They put him on a nebuliser but he still didn't get no sleep last night. Told us he will be in till Thursday. So not too long to be on my own

Good luck Meglet.

Sorry I don't have any words of wisdom IMO.

M has started to properly crawl and I found him standing against the sofa this morning

Hi imo sorry to hear that the sessions have been so difficult.

Does Charlotte have a comfort toy, something that you can leave with her? M has one of those glow seahorse things (which I would never have chosen for her, however .....)

I don't know what to suggest. I'm sure the staff are right, it is quite normal. Some friends of mine went through the same thing and decided to send their liyyle boy to a hildminder instead - but I'm not sure if that's what you should be considering.

I hope tomorrow goes well for you, I'll be thinking of you x

imo, I know exactly how you feel, and that the worst part is feeling like a bad mum. For what it's worth, Diego also cried when he first started, but a few weeks later, he would smile when he saw the nursery door. The most important thing is that you feel comfortable that it's a good nursery, and that you trust the staff, which seems to be the case.

<<hugs>>

Just popping in cos not had chance to catch up. Back to work tomorrow (will be able to catch up properly at work!).
Am so upset, feels like I'll never see C again. Settling in sessions at nursery have been awful as she sobbed her heart out when I left her and then she's cried on and off for the whole session. they say it's normal (classic time of 10months) but I feel like a terrible mum.
The nursery is good but I didn;t expect to feel this bad at leaving her!
I have posted in returning to work but anyone here got words of wisdom for me?

just bookmarking... will catch up and be back later. Got pre-op at the hospital this afternoon so I'll find out what will happen next week .

Lollyheart
What is going on?. I spoke to the nursery teacher and told me that around here as well as the swine flue there are lots of kids getting really sick with terrible coughs.
We have been with it for the last week

Hi everybody.
Well. What can I say. I am back dowstairs with her. She refuses to sleep and I can't leave crying with her cough There is always an excuse
Kisses to all your babies.
Girls are sooooooo different from boys.
Lorea is such a little lady, learning and copying whatever I do.
Her brother, still 4, can already read and write in 2 languages (I am to blame, but extremely proud), but when he was Lorea's age was just a boy, interested in boyish things, while Lorea, I just can't believe she is only 10 months old.
She combes, or try to comb her her, brush her teeth (tries), helps me when I amn dressing her up. Women, we are sooooo much........advanced
Hi Starlight Yes she hides under the baby wraps and then tries to scare me saying NAAAAAAAAAA.
In have not had time to read all the posts. Is anyone pregnant?

carrie LOL LOL that you thought I would think it was THAT kind of wipe.

Hopefully, go for it!

ILTMIMI, Diego has not a single tooth, but I guess this is a phase they all go through!

Ponymum T has learned the muslin over the face game. It's hilarious, he does it in the pram all the time (he has a muslin as a comfort blanket to go to sleep, so usually has at least one or two in the vicinity).

Am planning on investing in a mooncup before next period, how exciting! Although someone once told me you couldn't use them after a bad tear - anyone heard anything like this/using one after a tear? Mine was 3rd degree...

ponymum how sweet

carriebo I was in Boots today and the Mooncup actually caught my eye! I thought of you of course. Didn't buy one though...

starlight DD is brilliant at playing peekaboo. She puts the muslin over her face and sits very still, then pulls it off and giggles like crazy. Now even nursery have started commenting on her latest version of the game: if there is a muslin on the ground she will press her face down on it, then spring back up and giggle. I guess she thinks that we can't see her if there is a muslin in front of her face. So cute!!

carrie lol

lol Carriebo

I can't believe you're working for the enemy Digi

This afternoon was a bit fraught in our household, M has started to bite. Not just nip, but a real bite. It really hurts and he managed to make me bleed 3 times

Each time I picked him up, sat him down away from me and sternly told him no. He would wail and throw himself about, but I'm hoping he'll learn eventually.

It makes me really angry as it really does hurt, plus it makes me wary of him when he comes towards me.

This too will pass, this too will pass ...

DD2 took first steps at the weekend... thought i'd pop on and brag about it. born 26 Sept.

Just realised you might think that was TMI, I'm talking baby wipes to go with washable nappies, had moved on from talking about periods!

No problem pacita! I've only used mine for 2 months, first month lots of leaks but 2nd month better. I'm releasing the inner hippy!
Actually a friend has almost pursuaded me to use washable wipes...!

Mooncup update: yes, have figured out the breaking the seal bit. Thanks Ninja and Carrie. I have to say, I approve of this contraption. It appeals to my meanness (no tampax bill) and to my eco-friendly side. And it's remarkably easier than I first thought. And now that I think of it, it's more comfortable than a tampax, incredibly enough.

Menstrual rant over - sorry ladies.

DG glad things are looking up, hope you manage to explain the nap times to your mum and get her to work with you! And well done on the new job!!

A friend had a baby today and I found out two people are pregnant, one of whom is a very close friend. I'm now VERY broody!!! But first we must move house!
Got another viewing booked for Wednesday. I'm going to be out so the agent can do it, I'm sure I talk too much and put people off!

Re: Mooncup extraction, the first time I tried to take it out I couldn't reach it and totally freaked. Turns out if you relax your pelvic floor (even bear down slightly) the end comes shooting out and you can give it a squeeze to break the seal. That's how I've done it anyway!

yes - peekaboo and handing me things and climbing up my legs (and terrorising the cats and guinea pigs) are all favourite activities here

Diego likes hiding under my duvet when I take him in in the morning and plays peekaboo with his dad. He also likes being inside the duvet with me scratching the sheets to make noises. Go figure.

This thread is so much quieter. Are a lot of people back in work?

DG Congratulations on your new job

Potxola and Pacita Welcome back.

Anyone else have a lo that plays peekaboo? Baby Starlight hides behind my laptop and peeps our around the edge grinning. It is very cute!

and welcome back potxola I was trying to think just this morning who all the people were who we'd not heard from for ages on here and I wondered how you were getting on. Good to hear you're all doing well.

lolly he was ill for almost a week. Started over night last Sunday night and was only after sleeping most of Saturday that he then seemed almost normal on Sunday. Is still tired though. Hope F is better soon. Its horrible when they're sick.

Another rough night, but not on the scale of the last week thank god. DS is napping now. Spoke to the PN for reassurance, she said to keep doing what we're doing. Which is good as I was beginning to think we should be stopping with all the head stroking, but she said to carry on with it.

My biggest challenge is to get my mum to be consistent with his naps and mealtimes when i'm not around. She seems to think he should sleep for hours in the morning and then attempts to keep him up from lunchtime, so he inevitably falls asleep at 4pm and she can't wake him up till 5:30. Anyway, rant over. I am actually very lucky to have her around to help with childcare - I just need to get through this.

Have been meaning to mention this for a while now. I've had a last minute job come up which I started on last week. Guess who it's for? Only the opposition (NM)!! They're actually a great client, so much easier to work with than the previous lot (who I won't mention again in case it bites me on the bottom ).

Poxtola I think they are twins. Our routine is pretty similar except her last feed is at 5-6, haven't tried giving her a meal later. She is also in our room as we have no room for her so will probably be in our room until dd1 moves out.

We had a better night last night, it has been a PITA trying to get the bedding right with this weather, have gone back to the grobag with a vest and she has woken less.

DP is laid out on the settee feeling rubbish. His vertigo is back and he is wheezing and keeps shaking. Taking him to the Drs later. Hope he doesn't pass it on to me vertigo was bad enough when pregnant, never mind carrying Robyn around

Welcome back pacita and potxola*

*debi i'm not sure if the tonsillitis is viral or not, he has got antibs but he was sick all last night, bright yellow stuff so i have just spoke to the doctor and she is going to change the antibs.

How long was your ds1 ill for? F does'nt seem any better and now is not eating

My ds1 now has a cough, a house full of sick children not fun.

Hola Potxola! Lorea sounds like a lovely baby. I am enjoying breast feeding too. I never thought I would last this long. If you had asked me a year ago, I would have told you I'd breast feed until six months! Comes to show, doesn't it, that you just don't know what it is like until you're living it.

Ninja, no, I was not folding it into a C to take it off, will try this out. Also, for complicated logistic reasons I ended up with two little arc travel cots. One of them is still in its packaging and completely brand new but I can't find the receipt, which means I will get a voucher but not a refund. Would you be interested?

Hi Debs75, sorry you are in my situation too.
She eats what her 5 yr old brother eats, but mashed.
I have a rutine:
At 6 she has her supper, ay 8 I give her cereals with Frutapura and I take her upstairs. I get her into her Grobag, I bf her and into the cot.
At 11:30 I go upstair (she is still in my room, we don't have a room for her in this house) I think she smells me or something because 5 min later she starts calling me. I then BF in bed and we sleep together. I guess I Bf twice during the night.
It is lovely, she is really happy and one day I will miss all this closeness

She is very tall and big (not fat).I am not worried about BF, because her brother was the same. I stopped Bf when he was 2.
She does eat pieces of clementine, toast etc.

SHe does not crawl, he moves with her bottom, really fast and loves her brother. She is an attachment baby.

Which reminds me. I am still a sling/ wrap fan.
Do any of you has a Gauze Calin Bleu. I need to buy one for the hot weather. Is it supportive? Reviews please

Hi Poxtola Sounds like Lorea and Robyn are the same. I am more tired now then when she was a month old.
How is she doing with solids?
Robyn loves eating but she is bf just as much as she did several months ago.

pacita we're going camping this summer and this could be just what I need. Thanks (the cot not the mooncup)

re Mooncup you fold it into a C shape to break the seal, is that what you're doing?

Hi girls.
I am back. These last months have been crazy.
I am still Bf lorea to sleep, still sleeping with her and as a result of that, I am very tired.
I have thought many times about coming back to our group here, but I never can assure you I am back for good. I usually collaps on my 2 hrs before the little one demands more milk.
(She still feeds during the night).

Bah, I cocked up my post. Point one up there should say "Diego thinks that going in is a hoot. Here is the link

DG, I think this is the key "...I have to remind myself that we are ALL getting a lot more sleep...". I really hope that it gets better for all of you very soon.

Regarding bringing forward his bed time, I found that when you are doing any kind of sleep training, maintaining the routine exactly the same is quite important, as it provides recognisable boundaries within which they feel secure. This extends to mealtimes throughout the day, apparently, as the sleep and eating cycles are related. Although I am back to my usual chaos now, I remember I was trying to do an 8,12,4,8 timetable.

Have you tried the transitional toy thing? You know, putting some sort of teddy in the cot with him and actually verbalising "this is teddy the teddy and he's going to sleep with you". I know it sounds silly, but when I put Diego down in his cot, he looks to one side to find his dummies, and then he looks to the other to see that Luna (the fluffy thing) is there too.

Aaaanyway, I'm sure you're pretty fed up of people telling you what to do - so just huge sleep vibes to the little A.

Now, two things I need to run pass you, ladies:

1. travel cots: if you need one, I can totally recommend the little life arc two. It is 2.3 kg. It' super easy to put up. It's got plenty of ventilation and anti-mosquito netting. It's considerably cheaper than other makes, and for waht it's worth, Diego things that going is is a hoot. here

2. the moooncup! Having been exposed to the mumsnet way for some time now, i went and purchased said implement. I am having freakish post pregnancy heavy periods, and so far, I think it's a great invention. But... does anybody have any advice about how to remove it without it feeling like you're giving yourself a self inflicted hysterectomy?

ponymum twice!

lolly sorry to hear about your lo's tonsilitis.

ninja no cats here, but DS has got into the habit of eating anything he comes across on the floor (pincer grip has now been perfected) - today it was a single bark chip he found on the playground in the park.

pacita welcome back!! Last night was a little bit tricky, he woke twice and his cry was so sad and forlorn I thought he was ill. DH gave him Calpol, checked his temp etc. He was fine, a little snuffly, but no temp. Your spanish CC method sounds very interesting, very similar to my own (unpatented) version - except we started at 5 mins (feeling even more cruel now).

Bedtime tonight seems to have gone backwards also, took 45 mins. I thought it would get easier rather than harder, but we're learning things every night i.e. tonight we tried to put DS to bed earlier than usual as he'd skipped his afternoon nap. But in the end he fell asleep at the usual time. Listening to him cry really doesn't get any easier. I just hope that by next weekend he's learnt to go to sleep quickly. I have to remind myself that we are ALL getting a lot more sleep now, even with the crying.

Looking forward to going on a date with DH once this has all settled. At the moment any evening plans have been put on hold till we can be sure DS is settled and able to sleep through for a good few hours.

I agree about the comfort toy too. DS1 has a fleece taggie that I made and Waddle the penguin and he's always slept fine wherever he is if he has those. Good for napping at childminder too when he first started there.

At bedtime he asked why the Gruffalo has spines on his back, I said I didn't know so he said that maybe God made him that way and that maybe God has spines on his back too! Very cute.

ninja - Oooh yes, catfood is threatening to become a regular part of DS's diet!

Welcome back Pacita, I was thinking only the other day that I haven't seen you about

I hadn't thought about a comfort toy, food for thought.

M hasn't eaten cat food ............ yet.

pacita agree about the 'comfort' toy, I'm sure it helps M. DD1 never had one and was a terrible sleeper

oh and feet- 10.5cm

and ninja if we had a cat I'm sure he'd eat the food.

pacita yes I'drecommend a mclaren for small and light and sturdy. Only thing to check is how you like the handles. They angle in slightly and I really like that. But my best friend got a really sore back from them and has to have straight handles.

lolly poor F, is it bacterial tonsillitus? Has he got antibiotics? That's what ds1 has had and he had penicillin but it didn't help soI think his was viral. He's better today than he has een all week. A couple of friends have had it too so it's obviously going round this area- although touch wood so far none of the rest of us have had it.

Hello ladies, I've missed you all!

I got back ridiculously late on Friday night (actually, 2 am on Saturday) after a week holiday in spain. Sorry I did not even have time to do a "see you later" post. It was all a bit hectic.

I've spent a fair bit of time catching up on the thread, and I tell you, it had the drama, pathos and suspense of a novel: Will Ponymum's nanny live up to expectations? And will CC work to give DG and her DP some much needed respite? Will the poorly LOs quickly recover now that we have a good diagnosis? And which oh which car seat should one get? Or buggy?

So having got up to date, Digital, I really feel for you, and can imagine what tough times you and your DP are going through. I know the kind of angry zombie I become after a few days of sleep deprivation, so the fact that you are still a caring mother (and can even manage to have friends over) is entirely to your credit.

For what it's worth, I have actually resorted to CC in the past. I know a child's character has a lot to do with sleep and therefore you cannot give cc all the credit, but I have to say that it worked really well for us, and that since, Diego on the whole is a good sleeper and an incredibly contented child. However I have to say that not all CC methods are fine by me, and that I could have never ever done the "let them cry themselves to sleep" method, which I find cruel, both for the parents and for the baby. I followed The Estivil Method, which is by a Spanish paediatric neurologist. It is based on instilling a sense of security in the child that allows them to self settle. I like it for two reasons:

1) It is based on the child never feeling abandoned, and therefore the table of timings requires one to re-enter often, starting with 3 minutes. Also, although you should not pick the baby up, you can touch them, and are encouraged to talk to them and explain why they are in bed, why sleep is good, and that you are nearby.
2) It is explicit enough that you do not have to think and fret, as the instructions are clear and strict.

Actually, there is a third reason. I think it fosters intelligent use of transitional objects such as a cuddly toy, that act as a switch or a symbol for the child to make good sleep associations.

For example, this past week in Spain, we were in a rented house near the beach. I took a travel cot for Diego (more of which later, as I thoroughly recommend the little life arc two, not just cos it cheap, but also because it's practical and kids love it). I took with me his dummies and his sleeping cuddly toy, and followed the same sleep routine as I do at home. and he slept very well every night. Ok, this may also have to do with the fact that he was knackered, but on the whole, I think that he has learned how to fall asleep, and that it is ok to be on his cot and in darkness when he's tired and it's time to sleep.

Anyway, sorry for the whole essay. I hope it is of help - at least for those who do not abhor of CC!

DG, how was last night for you?

And with regard to prams, all i want is something really light and that folds really small. Is that a mclaren?

I have the infinity, the shopping basket is a bit small but otherwise i really like.

Anyone else's lo's eaten catfood yet??

I'm not a happy bunny as my car went into the garage on Friday for a very simple job and they couldn't get the bolts off and so had to heat them and broke the heat shield and another one won't be in for 5 TO 10 WORKING DAYS. I meant to be in work next week and we're meant to be going on holiday in it on Friday aaaaah.

Then to add to that on Friday afternoon M was sick 4 times on the way home from school and several more times at home. All over the buggy, me and the guinea cage! She seems fine now but she's been up a couple of times the last couple of nights and still up for good at 6.30 grrr

Sorry rant over.

lollyheart tonsillitus is horrible, sorry to hear that. I prescribe lots of icecream.

I've become one of those pushchair people. I don't like the Mutsy I bought (no shopping basket to speak of and I do my grocery shopping locally, use cloth nappies and have to cart around stuff for 2 kids. So I'm search for the perfect buggy - anyone use an infinity? Any good?

Oh lollyheart, my sympathy for your DS. DD had tonsilitis about a month ago along with several other related things. If it's any comfort, she is totally well now and it is bliss in comparison. Babies are remarkably resilient. Sending some healing vibes to your house, and hope he will be better soon.

We've just got back from hantsdoc, f has got tonsillitis he is really poorly.

My ds1 napped nearly every day for about an hour til he started school....was really worried when he started reception, but hes been fine.

Just measuered Tobys feet...they are just over 11cms long and 6cms wide - he is like me. I am only a size 4 foot, but they are nearly as wide as they are long!

Still feel awful...head hurts now when I bend over When is it ok to go the the GP with a virus????

DG Glad things are getting better x

Don't get paranoid Hopefully, although that can be easier said than done.

M has only really started to do 'things' in the past few weeks, and tbh the moving thing is a pita as I have to pay more attention

My sister had to stop my niece from napping in the day just before she started school. I'm hoping M keeps his naps for a loooooong time. He has between 3-4 hours in the day and 12 hours at night. He's sleeping well at the moment, I think because of all of the moving around he's doing.

I shouldn't have said that should I? He's going to become a wailing banshee next week isn't he?!

DG it sounds like the CC is working really well for you - so glad you've (probably) found a solution that works for you!

Still no crawling (or even attempts to crawl, really) - someone actually managed to make me paranoid about it the other day by commenting how all babies are at least trying to crawl by now. A fair bit of babbling, but no attempts to link babbles to words or actions that we do.

T has cut right back on his daytime naps over the past 4 days. Not made any difference to his mood or night sleep, but does mean he tends to fall asleep more easily as he's more knackered. I do not anticipate him keeping his daytime napping for a long time - he sleeps 10-12 hours at night (5:30-7:30am in the pram), and only naps for a maximum of 90 mins or so in the day time already. In a way it'll be a relief when he eventually drops it, as it's one less hassle having to spend 20 mins jiggling the pram to settle him! SIL's son was having 2 hours a day and 12 hours at night until he was well over 3!

Well done Digi, glad to hear you're making progress.

In the past couple of days M has perfected sitting up from laying down, pulling himself onto his feet on the edge of the sofa, waving and saying 'ba-ba' for bye bye <proud mummy>

dg when we did a similar thing with ds1 I would always lie him down and give him a kiss too. I think if you don't speak to him or make eye contact that's the important bit. Sounds like you're making progress, well done.

DS1 still not better but is getting there I think. His main problem was that he couldn't breath so couldn't sleep but he slept from 7.30pm- 10am last night and is back in bed now so hopefully that'll help.

Glad you had fun ponymum! Will you be starting the April '10 thread then...?
We're off out for a meal in town tonight for a friend's birthday, quite looking forward to it! No idea what to wear though...

11cm. But that was through a sleepsuit with his toes bunched up (ds's default position).

Bedtime last night was only 5 mins of crying - but we've never had much of a problem at bedtime. But at least we can now settle him in his cot stroking his back rather than carrying him / rocking him till he drops off then attempting to maneouvre him into he cot without waking him.

He woke at 2 and I went in instead of dh, bad move. Cc for 45mins till I started to doubt myself then dh took over and ds was asleep on the next visit.

We're not following the exact method of cc at the moment. We're not supposed to touch him when we check in on him. But I always give him a kiss stroke his head and lay him back down. Probably delaying the whole process but as I said stroking him to sleep is infinitely better than rocking him to sleep. I never thought we'd be able to do that.

Lollyheart - do not doubt what you have done for your lo. You get big and small ff and bf babies, it is no reflection on your milk.

Thanks for measuring your lo's feet everyone, keep the measurements coming

Glad you enjoyed your evening away

dg fingers crossed for you tonight

ponymumGlad you had a good night, i could do with one of those.

Maybe we could arrange a child free evening before meglet has her op?

becaroo i hope you get well soon.

Well i checked dd and ds1 weight at 10 months,dd was also 16lb and ds1 was 18lb they were ff, so i guess i just have small dcs

Robyn's feet are 10cm which seems huge but not compared to some of yours.

DD is at nursery so I can't measure her feet just now... but you have made me so curious.

London was great. Thanks so much everyone for all your help with the babysitting thing. It was fine! The babysitter had a very reassuring manner and it was obvious from the start that she really loved children. I think the biggest problem was the noise from the pub opposite keeping DD awake until closing (we were in an apartment just opposite Great Ormond street hospital). I tried hard not to worry while out, and we texted a couple of times during the evening. I can't beleive I am writing this - I used to laugh at mothers who fretted over one night out using a babysitter. I promise I'll be a lot more chilled next time, now that I have got through the first time!!

We had such a lovely night! I wore a slinky black dress which looked great (as long as you didn't dwell on the rear view for too long!). We did the theatre and then a bloody amazing late dinner at Joel Robuchon. I felt like a sophisticated grown up again!

carriebo I am afraid I ignored your advice about not enjoying myself too much. I enjoyed myself very much. Twice actually.

lolly your bm is good enough!!

Am posting quickly while I'm at work. Cc worked well last night. 15 mins crying at bedtime then a whopping 5.5 hours sleep till he woke at 3. Then another 15 mins crying and he slept till just after 5. Huge improvement. But could be a fluke so am remaining open minded about how tonight will be.

Will measure ds's feet when I get home. But I think they are big. He has big hands too. Brick laying hands as my mum calls them.

lolly F is a good size and looks very healthy so your milk is obviously good stuff. As ninja says, they're all different. And he's on the move so much that he'll be burning off more calories than some babies.

lollyheart My ds was massive and bf, my dd is teeny and bf. She does feed less than he did and it would be the same with ff and is certainly the same with solids.

lollyheart your milk HAS been good enough, it's just that babies are different.

I'm worried that maybe I bf too much as M is climbing up the chart. She's on the 75th but is short and dumpy (takes after her dad ) - well maybe her mum too

Just measured F feet and they are 10cm.

I'm very of these big babies, I'm starting to feel selfish for still bf iykwim? i feel like my milk has not been good enough for all this time

11.5cm and not even 15lb yet

Glad you had a good time Ponymum.

I would like everyone to do a very unscientific study for me. DS has got HUGE feet, everyone comments on them , so I was wondering if you could tell me how big your lo's feet are.

I measured from the back of the heel to the end of the big toe, and M was 12cm

Is my darling boy going to be in the Guiness Book of Records?!

Glad you are home safe and sound ponymum

T slept soooo heavily last night - not even a murmur from him once he was down. He only had about 45 mins nap yesterday, with one thing and another, and was pooped! Still woke for bottle and pram transition at 5:45am though

Hello! We are now back home 'oop North' in Yorkshire after our night out in London last night. Yes, all three of us survived! I am trying to catch up on the thread but so tired... must go to sleep now. Will have a proper catch up tomorrow. Hope everyone is well, and wishing good sleeps for all mummies and babies tonight.

debi its been a week now since dd had any day time sleep (apart from the 10 mins in the car yesterday) and she's definitely getting better every day. Having been a baby who slept 23 hours a day (no joke) she dropped to one nap a day at 11m (the books say 15-18m) and has regularly had days without a nap since 20m. She was taking 1.5 hours to fall asleep at night and was up with the lark, but now she's not having a nap she sleeps 7-7 again. Tbh I wouldn't mind putting her to bed later, I would LOVE to have they daytime nap back again where both dcs slept and i could sleep/watch tv/MN/have friends over, but she simply stopped falling asleep, there was nothing I could do about it.
The afternoons that we've had friends round, or we've gone out, have been much much happier for all concerned than the ones where I've tried to entertain a tired dd on my own at home!

starlight this evening was fine . Although we had had a day out in London today so my mum hung around to help for a bit and I got the dc's into their pj's downstairs in front of Night Garden. Bad mummy! Neither of them napped all day in London! DD was over tired but so excited that she kept her eyes open all day.

We had a look at the Fourth Plinth to see who was up there and we saw (in passing) a women who seemed to be doing a womens rights speech, a man reading from the bible and a woman stacking bagels onto sticks . I dragged the dc's into the National Gallery and ds seemed to like it.

dg good luck! You will get there in the end.

Meglet Was tonight better?

Good luck DG - what ninja said, if he was crying no matter what else you did, cc isn't going to make him any more unhappy.

Good Luck DG I think we were all a bit when we heard about your nights and there was probably this amount of crying without CC.

DG We all know you haven't decided on cc lightly. If you've researched/tried/thought about other options and decided that cc is the best thing for your family then it most likely is.

I hope you get to where you need to be quickly and without too much stress. Good luck!

digi we did CC with DS when he was younger and it did work. Don't worry about what other people think - if it works go for it.

Ok....I know I said I'd give it a week but for various reasons I ended up starting cc about 11:30 last night.

He cried for 90 minutes then slept for two hours then cried for 30 minutes and slept for another two hours, then he woke at 6ish so I fed him and let him sleep in our bed till 8. This is actually the most sleep any of us have had all week. He woke up in a really happy mood and was really playful at breakfast.

We're doing the same again tonight - but starting at bedtime. I know this is very unMN to be doing CC, but I really think it's for the best. My mum is going to be staying over for a few nights and surprisingly she is being very supportive, so at least I don't feel like a complete monster knowing she's backing me up.

Will keep you all posted on whether it works or not.

Our carseat max weight is 13kg. I think DS is 10kg, so might have another couple of months before we need to upgrade.

DG - sorry you're still having such a tough time re sleeping... you said you were envious about my 1 week cold turkey with dd1 - but remember I didn't even try that til she was about 13months - until then, she woke about every hour for snacks, and the week or so of the pram method still involved me eing away 1-2 hours a night rocking & singing exhaustedly.

I got to a point when I had to do something, but didn't want to do cc or things like that - tbh I think dd1 was too determined - 1 time I tried just having her on the bed beside me, but not picking up or feeding, just patting - she sobbed for about 45 minutes til she threw up.

DD2 co-sleeps, yet is (touch wood, so far) not so desperate - she doesn't treat me as such a dummy, but does feed to sleep - I'm a believer in doing what is easiest to get the most sleep, and not thinking about the future too much - most kids will sleep better at some point, but they are all different and I agree with others that it's more about them, and less about your parenting skills choices etc.

Hi all...still got dreaded lurgy...feel awful.

I have no idea what Toby weighs...I last took him about 8 weeks ago and he was 23.5lbs then Goodness knows what he is now!!! He is in 12-18 month clothes...

PIL and my parents are both away from tomorrow on hols so I REALLY need to get better..was so ill on monday dh had the day off work to look after me! Toby has got the sniffles but he is teething again and ds1 says his throat hurts, but no temps......hope they dont get what I've had

Havent had time to read all the posts...got to go and get ready for app at hospital re: endoscopy...should cancel it really but have done twice already and am worried they will bounce me back to the GP.

Hope all are well xx

Debi I know every child is different, but SIL recently forced her DS to drop his afternoon nap (he was 3 in April), and he goes to bed a bit earlier, but she said he's actually better than he was before - it was like he was dozing and getting groggy and being grumpy all evening rather than being properly awake and going to bed earlier, she reckoned.

I have no idea how much ds2 weighs as all the baby clinics round here are in the afternoon (exceot one which is on a day I work) and getting an hour or 2 of peace while they both sleep is far more important to me than getting him weighed.
I was noticing the other day though that his trousers all seem to be falling down and I'm sure they weren't before so hope he's not fading away. Would be surprised though- apart from milk he eats like a horse.

I was thinking the other day that ds1 really should drop his afternoon nap (he's 3.2!) but I dread him being a horror at teatime and bedtime. Let me know carrie how long it takes your dd's bodyclock to adjust to the new routine (unless it's months, I don't want to know if it is!)

C is about 1lb - Of course, that's 19 lb!!

C is about 1lb and is 10 months next week!! She's about 3 inches off the top of her car seat and it goes to about 28lb I think, so we'll keep her in it until she really outgrows it, then go for a forward facing car seat.

I've looked at the rear facing ones online and they are monsters! Common in Sweden but that's cos they all drive great -- big-- tanks volvos. My sister also said their legs are supposed to bend like frogs legs (her car seat was from Finland and can go rear or forward facing. Her 2yr old DD is forward facing). For the extra safety, I'm not convinced. I think we'll go for an isofix forward facing with leg stand for added protection, plus get one which reclines and put C in recline position until she's older.

Thing is, if the car gets hit head on then being rear facing won't stop whiplash completely.

DG hope you had a better night. As someone else said, look for cranial osteopath who works at a fully fledged osteopath's - ie a medical type centre rather than holistic. Ours cost £28 per half hour.

DD is 18lb but really really short!

DS is being a total pain at the moment. Won't go to bed and once in there gets out lots of times in the night with various excuses. I'm shattered and beyond knowing how to fix it. I've tried incentivising, talking, sanctioning and shouting. Nothing seems to work.

Baby Starlight is 17lb. Toddler Starlight was 21lb at her age!

Howdit go Ponymum?

lol at the petite 16lbs babies. My little porker is probably more like 26lbs

Yesterday a friend came round with her daughter who is about 14 mo and is a little dot, quite small and a very slight frame. She picked up M (v tall and a chubster) and had a real shock at how heavy he was

When M is older I can see that people will expect him to be older than he really is.

at 16lb babies. I reckon T has to be a good 22lb, if not more - I last weighed him about 6 weeks ago and he was 20lb then, and he's grown a lot. He has loads of milk and eats well, and doesn't move, but as long as he's not alarmingly obese, I'm happy.

Glad you like the blog Carriebo and sorry for your crappo night.

We are still rear facing Robyn is only 16lbs and she has another 3-4in before her head reaches the top of the seat. Hoping she won't suddenly grow before mid August as that is the earliest we will get our new car and don't want to get a seat to fit this cat that doesn't fit the new car.

Robyn managed to stand up today. She was bouncing on my knee holdingmy hands whenshe just put all her weight on her feet. She had the biggest smile and knew she was being clever. After a min or so she flopped back down then did it again 3 more times.

Digi We are having pretty bad nights still but as long as i get some sleep i don't worry how she gets to sleep or if we co-sleep. Saying that I am tireder now then I was when she was a newborn

yes I hope that nasty sorry nannynick hasn't spoilt it for her

I can't wait to hear back from ponymum about her night out and how sitters went!

It's going to be a while before f is in his forward facing carseat, i had him weighed today, he is only 16lb 2oz, he was on the 25th line now on the 2nd.

Starlight (and DG). I remember when DD1 was doing her Mum and Baby taster sessions at Nursery a little boy crawled up to me, sat on my knee and fell asleep (it used to take 90mins driving round to get DD1 to sleep for 10 mins in the day).

At that point I almost wanted to take that child home instead of mine

And I love the blog hopefully!

<hugs> for DG and second the craniel osteopathy idea (although the one we had was a bit of a nutter with some dodgy spiritual side, but the ones that are pure osteopathy are great!!)

<hugs> for meglet too. We're having a horrid time with dd at the moment, she's dropped her daytime nap and is absolutly beside herself by bedtime. Dh put the dcs to bed on monday and was ashen faced when I got in from the trauma of it all, she's just so overtired. Today I also elbowed GF out and took the dcs for a drive on the ringroad so that dd fell asleep for 10 mins, it worked an absolute treat. She was tired enough to go to bed, but not overtired, and ate her dinner nicer than she has in ages.

We had a weird night last night, dd screamed in her sleep for an hour (dh ended up sleeping on her floor) then ds woke every 20-30mins from midnight to 2:30am. After lots of teething gel and calpol, each of which only worked for half an hour, I gave him a bottle of milk and then he was sorted. Poor love the amount of dribble he's got going on right now is not nice, those teeth are giving him lots of grief! We're the un-dead today though.

Ds is still rear facing. His head isn't at the top of the baby seat yet, and I have no idea if he's 9kg and ready for the brittax seat yet. Paul Stride in York do two rear facing toddler seats I believe.

Elsewhere in the news there is no house news

lol at 'the answer to both of these is no btw'

Ponymum I hope you're having a lovely night out.

DG <Starlight elbows GF out of the nursery and muscles in> Pull yourself together! Look around at all your friends with babies and answer me these questions:

1) Would you like your ds to have any of these people as his mother?

2) Would you prefer to be the mother of any of these people's babies?

(the answer to both of these is no btw)

You and your ds are a perfect match and you'll get there between you. The tough times aren't caused by something you have or haven't done and your lo is not doing it on purpose.

hth

I have just had the most awful bedtime with my dc's. DS tantrumed for 45 minutes and screamed so hard my ears were hurting, "I WANT TO GET IN MY COT", "I WANT TO GO IN THE GARDEN", "I DON'T WANT A BATH" "I DON'T LIKE NIGHT GARDEN" "I DON'T WANT ANY MILK" shortly followed by "I WANT MY MILK" , "I WANT TO WATCH NIGHT GARDEN" and so on. He calmed down the moment I put his pyjama top on, he was tired but had really needed a quick bath as he was sticky and grubby, then dd started crying for a few minutes. It was awful . I half expected the neighbours to call the police as ds was so loud, although I thought that if they did turn up I'd rope them in to help . What a nightmare. I'm wearing ear plugs next time, ds has been a PITA the last few evenings.

right, deep breathes............. shower, pasta for dinner (with home grown runners on the side) and GU choc pud for afters.

digi we got a good one from Kiddicare website for ds1 that was downfrom £100 to £50.
Yay, that you've got your car back

digi I'm not sure when the next one is but it's worth a visit to The Baby Show. We've got great deals on all our car seats from there.

thanks all.

imo will definitely try booking a session for DS. Have googled the osteopathy for children charity that do free sessions. But they're in central london and not suer when I'll get a chance to take him. Otherwise it looks like it's around £50 for a session closer to home.

We're still rear-facing even though DS is now well over 20lbs. After forking out for all the replacements for our stolen stuff I need to earn a bit more money before upgrading to the next stage seat. Must look up max weight on our seat though.

On a positive note I am on my new laptop which got delivered today and DH is driving the car home from work this evening!!! Normality can resume!!! (sort of...)

my goodness, that looks so uncomfy. It looks just like the Britax one that goes from birth- 9 months then 9 months- 4yrs (1st class?). I can't see where the child's legs go, they'd be kneeing themselves in the chin everytime you went over a bump.

update......apparently they can sometimes fit in cars with under floor storage. You need one with a long leg.

We're also moving DS up when we move DD into his seat. We're waiting until she reaches the weight and size but then she's going into his Maxicosi Priorifix and he's going into the Maxicosi Rhodi booster seat.

She's travelled in the Priori in friends car a couple of times and is nice and tight in there and she does love the fact that she can see us.

ok, just read up on the rear facing car seat info and I can't fit one in my car anyway as it has underfloor storage (citroen picasso) and most of the seats have a leg that needs to rest on the floor, but its not safe to have the leg on a hollow floor space. That solves that then!

DD will go forward facing in a few weeks time, she's just squeezing into the baby car seat for now. My friend has a rear facing toddler seat and I'm seeing her next week so I might check it out. But TBH I can't see myself trying to track down a supplier, think there's one in milton keynes. If they stocked them in the local mothercare / halfords I'd see I could get one. Here they are www.incarsafetycentre.co.uk/shop/special_br_04.html. They look huge!! I drive with my seat quite far back too, I'd be interested to see how one would fit.

imo I don't think you can really get rear facing seats here for toddlers. I don't know but I suspect that advice is american- they're cars are often a lot bigger than ours and so can fit a rear facing toddler seat in.

DS2 is very very close to the top of his rear facing seat and has to have his legs curled up. We're hopefully going to keep him in it until we get back from holiday in mid Aug- basically because we're taking car seats with us and I'm a bit wary of what might happen to them on the plane so I don't want to take new ones (DS1 is also going to go up to next stage when ds2 does) and also wary of Portugese drivers so may as well take the safest seats for them if they can be squeezed into them still.

If it was winter he'd be forward facing as the straps are almost at full length and wouldn't go round him with a coat on.

Imo we're keeping T rear facing in our car, but he goes out for the odd (round town, so slow) trip with the CM, and will forward face in her car in a few weeks when he is too big for her newborn seat. I wouldn't be especially worried about him forward facing, but he's not very strong in the neck for his age, and his head is still massive for his size, so i figure he's a perfect candidate for neck injuries if I crashed at any speed.

imo we're going to move DD into a forward facing one.

Just skim read - DG if you haven't, please try cranial osteopathy. Worst case, it'll be a lovely soothing 30mins for you and DS but it may work and help him sleep - it certainly helped us with C's colic when she was tiny.

Hi all - been so busy preparing to go back to work FT (this time next week - arrgghhh!!! Someone reassure me she won't just sit crying for me all day as I have in my head!), plus prepare for christening on Sunday, so not read posts yet (aiming too though).

Hope all OK and weather is meaning better sleeps for babies.

My question today is, we are still in our newborn car seat as C has not yet reached the top but probably will do by September. Those with cars, what are you all doing about forward facing car seats and the new advice to put them rear facing until 4? I just can't picture it myself - won't she end up with squashed legs? And I can't find rear facing ones for 4 year olds anywhere.

Digi agree with the others. It's no reflection on you at all but it is horrendous when you're so tired and you're awake with no immediate hope of going back to bed.

Effy was going through a bit of a patch while she was ill but going back to nursery has sorted her out. Because she's a nosey little thing, and the nursery cots are in the same room, she won't sleep there for very long during the day, so she's been having a max of about 45m. We're still giving her the banana at 18:30 and offering her 9oz of milk at bedtime but she's then sleeping right through and we're having to wake her up in the morning. She's naturally dropped the dream feed.

Her favourite game at the moment is the 'ta' game, which she especially likes to play in the bath. She picks up a bath toy and drops it over the side. She then stands there and looks at it until I pick it up. She then says 'ta' and holds her hand out to take it from me. Then drops it over the side again ad nauseum

Digi, ds's sleep is no reflection on how you are as a mum.

If you can summon the energy to start a thread I'm sure you will get lots of help, plus you'll find you're not the only one who has to go through/has gone through this.

Oh digital. You're really having a rough time aren't you . I'm so crap I don't know what to suggest. Although if your ds is eating more in the day that's a good sign.

I love all the talk about food processors. I'm trying to be ruthless and clear all the clutter out of my kitchen this week, if I do really well then I might get a food processor. Mind you, I'll only get one that is dishwashable, my rule in this house is that if it ain't dishwashable its not coming in . We now have the whole set of the kids plastic coloured Ikea plates, tumblers, bowls and cutlery, whenever I open the cupboard door I have to hold back an avalanche of plastic .

DD is doing some seriously cute baby talk now, all day long I can hear "hawawa babababa, eeee.....".

DS is awake, better go. Can't wait to see what he's going to get up to today. Yesterday he climbed onto the toilet and I found him standing in the sink playing with the toothbrushes on the window sill. I'm going to get a lock on the outside of the bathroom door so he can't mess about in there unsupervised, I don't want the sink coming off the wall or him trying to get out the window.

Xposted hopefully. Thanks, we sort of do shifts except DH does more than his fair share as I can't carry ds for as long as he can. I wish we could just jiggle his cot.

You're right about good sleeper vs crap sleeper. Doesn't matter what we do, ds wakes up regardless.

DG really you're not a bad parent. Well if you are I am as dd1 was a dreadful sleeper and dd2 is soooooooo much better.

will write more later

God my outlook at 3am was rather bleak wasn't it! Ds has now just fallen asleep in my lap after a feed. DH is asleep on a mattress on the floor in ds's room. We're all over the place. I think I need GF to come and slap me round the chops, tell me to pull myself together and make myself some toast - it's nearly 7:30 fgs.

So are we forever doomed to nights of screaming tantrums now that dh has co-slept with ds?

I nearly started a thread in sleep, but to be honest I'm so bored of this problem I can't be bothered to type out the background.

Oh, DG, you poor thing. Hope you're feeling a bit less terrible this morning. Does he want to feed when he wakes? Can you start going for some kind of minimum standard? e.g. you feed him 4 hourly, but not shorter than that. The other thing that worked for me and DP when T was absolutely horrendous was doing 1 hour shifts, and then 2 hours when he got a bit better. Eventually we had the night split into 2 (I did the first half, he did the second). It meant that no matter how awful it was, we could count down the minutes till we were back in bed and resting again. Even though our house is so tiny that you can hear everything - a loud ipod was a godsend!

The more I speak to (and read about) other babies, the more convinced I am that how you parent has very little to do with how your baby sleeps. I think if you have a good sleeper, all the co-sleeping/feeding to sleep in the world isn't going to give it bad sleep associations - I have a friend who has the perfect sleeping baby and she does all of this, but if she isn't there, the baby will close his eyes and nod off on the playmat, highchair, anywhere. Conversely, you can obsessively do all the right things - put them down awake, not feed to sleep, not co-sleep, blackout blinds - and still have a crap sleeper. We were obsessive about doing all of that, and T slept no better (worse, if anything) than he does now, taking all his naps in the pram and quite often having his cot jiggled to get him to sleep.

Having another shit night. I think we can say that DS has successfully broken my spirit. I hate being a mum. I'm no good at it. Can't think why I thought having another was a good idea.

DG Baby Starlight is always trying to climb up my leg too.

Sometimes I think I'm in a horror movie with zombies, because Baby Starlight is always coming at me, slowly and determined with a toothy grin!

Sunshine Poor effy hope the meds sort her out and she feels better soon.

Am counting down the days until the summer holidays. DD has until next thurs and DS on the fri then it is 7 long weeks of torture fun in the sun I don't think so. We find out next week how many playdays DS gets so we can have some respite. Dp is doing on and off agency work so we can't rely on him to tire ds out everyday so will probably be lots of blues clues again.

Robyn can now clap, she flaps her arms about and then they get closer together until she claps. Very clever. Still waking in the night but getting easier to get to sleep and can now mover her without her screaming herself awake.
Think its time for bed she is wailing a bit

lol digi and tethering ds in the garden. i think that's a great idea. In the time it took dh to walk from living room to kitchen and back (and our house is tiny) ds2 got half way up the stairs earlier!

digi have you tried cranial osteopathy? Maybe there's an underlying reason that he doesn't sleep well.

I don't use my food processor very often- mainly becasue the kitchen's too small to have it out so I forget about it. But I used it to make butternut squash muffins yesterday and it was great- throw everything in, blitz, pour, cook, eat. Easy and really tasty.

Took ds1 to doctor this aft as his temp was still up. He thinks he has tonsillitis and not swine flu but said you just don't know. So got antibiotics and if they don't work we can assume it is swine flu!

hopefully you are not tragic. I covet a food processor. I really really want one so I can do things like make pastry really quickly, and chop stuff quickly to make burgers/meatballs/koftes. And Nigella's Victoria Sponge is processor batter too.

I miss baking. But I can just about make dinner between balancing DS on my hip and sticking him in the high chair so he doesn't keep trying to climb up my leg. Once our garden is turfed I can tether him to a stake in the ground and let him play in a big circle.

DG I feel for you, I really do. I try to be quite zen about T's (still quite rubbish) sleeping, but it's bloody hard at stupid o'clock in the morning! We had a horrendous morning as I took the covers off the pram to wash them (covered in suncream on holiday), so had nowhere to put him at 5:30am. So he screamed. A lot.

Is it tragic that I am sad about missing out on some kenwood chef parts on ebay? And even more tragic that I am excited about a boot fair on saturday in case I can pick up a big saucepan for making jam? Just call me Nigella...

Incidentally, I seem to remember one or two of you being interested in the smallholding/chicken/veg patch/pretending to be self sufficient thing, so I thought you might want to see my blog - www.efficientsufficient.blogspot.com. Sorry for minor self promotion. As you were.

Welcome back old faces!

splish jealous of your easy week of going cold turkey on the night feeds with dd1.

I wonder if that's what we're doing wrong. We've basically gone cold turkey on all sleep props apart from cuddling, rocking and humming lullabies. He's still waking loads and spending a good portion of the night crying (in our arms and then for 5 minutes at a time in his cot when we get too knackered to hold him). But he still will not stay asleep when we put him back in the cot. Or if he does he's up and crying within 1/2 an hour.

Gearing for a fifth night of torture tonight. I'm obviously not expecting him to be sleeping through but there really hasn't been any improvement, he's not waking less and he's not going back to sleep any quicker. It just feels like we're all suffering for nothing.

Oh, I tell a lie. Ds is eating lots more solid food since I withheld the night feeds. And is doing lots
more pooey nappies. Great.

hello mama and foxy!

I'm trying to get myself assigned a project for when I return to work in August. Allegedly all work has to be marked as suitable for parttimers unless there's a really pressing reason (Ministers' Private offices, mainly).

Back in the real world, at the sixth attempt, finally found a manager who hasn't refused to look at my details just because of working 3 days. Not got the post yet but it's a start...

splish A loves sitting in the front hall waving at the furniture, and pulling himself up on everything. He likes the hall and landing more than any rooms. Fine by me - they're the most babyproof parts of the house! Starting to work on the concept of NO! as in 'NO climbing on the TV recorder and pulling the cables out of the telly [remove baby for 5th time that hour]'

A slept through twice last week, and woke every couple hours the other 2 nights. For the first time he wasn't hungry a couple times but is waking soggy...most annoying!

lol carrie ds2 makes a funny woof type noise when he sees a picture of a dog. Like you, to anyone else it would just sound like a noise but I know it's a woof!

(whispering very quietly so i don't jinx anything)- dh has got a job interview on friday . For a job at the uni we went to in Edinburgh.

Ds has done his first sign! (not including waving and clapping) He can sign dog! Now admittedly to the untrained eye this may look a lot like a two handed wave, but I'm his mother and I know better!

Hi foxy and splish haven't seen you for a while!

Thanks hopefully. I feel like my oldself now .

18/07 yup, an orphanage in Goma, Congo

Hi Foxy! When are you losing your beautiful hair? I heard a rumour... for charity isn't it?

drops in to show off new off temp new name.

v busy as back at work, dh working away.

roll on 17 july.

dd2 is fab. chilled. can go from sitting to standing without aid. wants to enter the 100m crawl and a bottle and cup refusnik but now getting interested in cups.

drops in to show off new if temp new name.

v busy as back at work, dh working away.

roll on 17 july.

dd2 is fab. chilled. can go from sitting to standing without aid. wants to enter the 100m crawl and a bottle and cup refusnik but now getting interested in cups.

It's just taken me about 45 minutes to read through the posts since I last got a chance to use the computer.

Carrie - must be frustrating trying to sell your house when you've already seen a house you really like

Sunshine (perfect name at the mo) - glad you've got a diagnosis at last, hopefully it'll clear up soon

DG - sorry you're having such a tough time at night. Baby splish gets fed to sleep, and wakes once or twice at night to feed, but is not usually even properly awake, so just feeds and drifts off again, but I co sleep with her which makes it easier. Dd1 was a total boobaholic, and got to a stage of waking almost every hour to snack.. I spent a mad week when she was about 13months odl going cold turkey on night time feeding. When she woke, I put her into her pram & read while pushing it to and fro with my feet, & sung twinkle twinkle little star for about 1-2hours then she'd sleep til morning. Avoided crying, and after the week, I put her into a cot for the first time, she rolled over & slept 12 hours straight, and has been a good sleeper since - anyway - there's no 1 right answer, you just have to do what feels OK to you / dp / baby

Baby splish is on the move. After a couple of weeks of intensive bottom bouncing practice, she figured it out. Well, sort of. I went for a shower leaving her playing in the bedroom with dd1 & found she'd followed me. She has developed a very awkward and fairly slow manoeuvre using 1 foot and 1 knee - not very efficient. She is trying to stand unaided as well. She also has 1 stumpy tooth, and seems to have learned to wave - however, she doesn't seem entirely au fait with the proper reason for waving, as this morning i caught her sitting looking into the wardrobe, waving at the contents

Oh, and she loves loves loves papaer and cardboard too. And phone charger wires.

I think you go into 'My mumsnet', log in (with your email address), then go to something like 'my details' or personal info, or something, then you'll see your talk nickname, with the option to change it.

Ooh, listing some more stuff on Ebay - made over £100 with the last lot, hoping that my old cameras will make me a few quid this time. Mostly I want the money so I can buy some accessories for my kenwood chef (geeeeeeeek emoticon)

Im still too festive. How do I change my name back to muffins? arghhhh

Just caught up. Gosh sunshine hope e is on the mend now.

Hi carriebo what happenned to the on? Where are you moving too? Not too far I hope. By the way, I think that dividing up your living room works well as people can imagine living there. Very functional. Seperate areas to play, eat work etc.

carrie I Cant believe its been a whole year since I saw you. I have officailly finished maternity leave today!
Ive got a months paid holiday now then a months unpaid parental leave then back to the grind the 7th September.

Dhoh I meant computer not comuter. I dont know how well I ll be at work lol xx

sorry x threads the other night pony. Then my comuter lost power. Gosh yove been thru it. You deserve the easiest pregnancy ever next time. I think there is defo something in letting nature take its course .

Thanks all.

Of course because she's been sleeping loads during the day, she's not sleeping as well at night now so am absolutely exhausted!

Hopefully I'll be able to come on here and chat about something other than her being ill.

T seems to have cut down to 2 naps a day (finally!), and it's making his night time sleep better - he's having anything from 20-60 mins in the morning about 2 hours after waking, then another 1-2 hours in the afternoon. He still does the bottle-pram manoeuvre at 6am, but is generally more settled.

Carriebo it must be so frustrating waiting for house to sell. DP and go round in circles occasionally about buying, but the long and the short of it is that we just can't raise a decent deposit yet, and we're not prepared to saddle ourselves with a high interest rate. Hoping that prices will fall a bit more, or at least stay static for a couple of years, we'll probably be in a position to buy in a year or two.

Sunshine how horrible, but glad you've finally got the right diagnosis and effy can start improving.

Focussing? i mean relxaing. Doh, was writing half of one sentence and half of another at the same time!

Still no feedback or offers from the two people who viewed the house over the weekend
My friend reckons it could be coz we have a massive lounge but its divided into small living area and small play area. She reckons people need to 'see' it as a large lounge that they could imagine focussing in. Also it doesn't have a focal point like a fire, just a tv tucked in the corner.
I just want to move
Someone at church yesterday advised me to get dd's name on the waiting list for the playgroup that I want, she won't start til sept next year, but we're not in the catchment yet, need to move!

Happy monday everyone. sunshine what a horrible experience for you, I'm so glad you've finally got a proper diagnosis and appropriate medicine, and such a good babysitter!

ponymum ENJOY your night out! But not too much or you'll be the first on the april 10 thread

Welcome back mamamufin I've been wondering how you've been doing, glad to hear you're loving it all I remember meeting you the day you stopped work for maternity leave, I can't believe that was a year ago!

I decided over the weekend to do something about the dcs early waking, so with great sadness I've dropped dd's daytime nap. She now falls straight to sleep at 7 rather than playing for over an hour, and this morning slept through til 7 instead of playing singing loudly from 6. I'm sure 12 hours sleep is much better for her than 2 at lunch at 9 at night.
Similarly I've got strict with ds, and don't give him more than 2 hours at lunchtime, and wake him at 2:30 even if he only went to bed at 1, and this morning he also slept til 7 instead of waking for a bottle at 6 then being put back to bed.
Hoping the improvement lasts, coz I've now lost my lunchtime break so it'd better be worth it!

Sounds very scary sunshine ridiculous that it took so long for a doc to properly diagnose her but at least they have now.

I'm passing on the due April thread too thanks.

Carrie booo that you might lose that house that you love. If it's meant to be you'll get it and if not you might find an even better one.

DS1 had a high temp last night and then was sick. His temp has been high today but goes back down with calpol. He's got a runny nose too. Sounds like a normal bug but of course I can't help thinking it could be swine flu!

Sunshine I'm glad that you have the right diagnosis now.

I had a quick flick through the pushchair conversation with interest as I have pushchairitis by proxy. My SIL is due in September and I have been looking at suitable buggies for her and have been trying to persuade her to get the Silvercross freeway (I would have loved that one but it did not fit into my fiesta!).

April 2010 - I think I will pass on that one

It was scary but am so thankful we now know what's been wrong for the last 5 weeks. It's been obvious she;'s not been right but every time we took her to the drs came away thinking we were overreacting.

sunshine that sounds really scary. I'm glad she's feeling better now

Ponymum both me and my friend have used Sitters in the past and have been really happy with the service. The only reason I don't use them now is that I use one of DS's favourite nursery nurses.

Anyway I am really glad I use her because she has proved to be so calm in a crisis.

On Weds me, DP and some good friends were going to see Lenny Kravitz and Rachel (nursery nurse) was babysitting. I had a call from nursery earlier on to say DD was a bit chesty again so I spoke to Rachel and she said she was fine with still looking after her.

I was intending to go straight from work to the concert but I ended up popping home to get changed and meet up with the others. When I got home DD was upset and was having a croup attack. Rachel had taken her into the shower which had helped a little. I gave her a cuddle and some Calpol and she seemed a little better. I ummed and ahhed about going but DP persuaded me I should.

Just after Lenny came on stage I got a text message saying that Effy was having some problems again and was a little blue. I called Rachel and I could hear Effy breathing really heavily in the background. I asked her if she could called NHS Direct to see what they said. She did and they listened to Effy's breathing and sent an ambulance. DP and I left the concert (only saw half an hour of it) and met them at the hospital.

Anyway, hospital was horrible. DP took Rachel and DS home (he was very excited about his ride in the ambulance) and I stayed with DD. We were left for 2 hours and she was struggling and blueish - not a nice experience. We finally saw a really lovely German dr and we finally have a proper diagnosis!

It turns out that she is one of the 5% of babies who develop croup from a bacterial infection. He saw her tugging her ear and asked me if she'd been drooling, vomitting and had loose, smelly stools. I said yes to all of them. He then looked in her ears and told me that her left one is bad but her right one is terrible - she has Otitis Media, an infection of the middle ear.

She's obviously had it for about 5 weeks and has seen four doctors in that time, including one last Tuesday who told us that her ear was a little red but nothing to worry about. DP is furious!

Anyway, she's on Erythromicin and had Thur and Fri at home with me (she was so miserable) but is so much happier and more herself now. Am worried as apparently untreated OM can lead to glue ear and grommits. Also feeling bad that we left her when she was poorly

starlight !! Don't spoil my opinion of you as a paragon of perfect parenting!

well much better qualified than me then. Mother of two preschoolers, one who fell down the stairs at 10 months and one who I left with a stranger whilst I looked round a preschool and then left the building and got into the car without remembering her.

Welcome back hopefully!

I now feel a bit better about the babysitting service. I phoned them first thing this morning and found out that the babysitter has been on their books since Feb 2005, has had 66 recent bookings including babies, and has a nursery nurse NVQ. OK, I think I am satisfied now! Apologies for airing my major panic in the thread!

Morning! Back from holiday in France for a week. Was really lovely, despite repeated early nights due to having T with us. We did have one really nice meal out with him in the pram next to us, and he slept perfectly.

Sleeping here is OK - he usually needs one or two quick resettlings, then does his usual trick of getting up at 5-6:30, having a bottle and then sleeping for another hour or two in the pram. Not perfect, but close enough for me not to be bother to change things at the moment. I'm sort of figuring that his sleep will probably improve in the winter when the nights get longer again, and if it doesn't then, and I'm bored of getting up at 6am (I quite like it at the moment), we'll think about doing something about it.

T is doing lots of leaning forwards and patting his hands and lifting his bottom up, but if he attempts anything more he just falls on his nose. Think he'll probably get onto his hands and knees in the next month or so, but he doesn't seem to have a particular desire to go anywhere yet (phew).

lol @ Granny Murray!

Sorry things are so tough at the mo digi. As Meglet said, you and dh have to be a team to give one another the strength and emotional backup to get through this tough time.

Remember that no solution is going to work straight away.

meglet If we were here at home that would be a good option, but it's for a night far away in big scary London town. I think the Sitters thing will be fine; I just need reassure myself by making sure the one they are sending definitely has experience with a 9 mo and has been on their books for at least a year.

Guess what? I went swimming this afternoon! DH, DD and I all went together to the local pool. DH and I took turns playing with DD and doing lengths. It was great!

ponymum do you know any local mums that use a good nursery? A lot of nursery staff earn extra ££ by babysitting, I know ds's nursery staff do. There may be a lovely trained nursery nurse who would babysit overnight.

DS has just had me in stitches. I turned the tennis on and he started chatting about Granny Murray (cbeebies) playing tennis. It took me ages to realise he was talking about Andy Murray . He kept cheering "yay, granny murray" regardless of whether it was federer or roddick .

ponymum wish I could help you, but I'm a rubbish childminder, can barely look after my own let alone anyone else's.

Our goal is to get him to wake less, and when he does wake to not have to feed him back to sleep or co-sleep. He does get offered water though so I hope we're not dehydrating him in this heat. It's a shame as I do like having him in our bed in the morning - it's just the time he expected to come in was getting earlier and earlier and I think it was encouraging him to wake up in the middle of the night so that he could join us - so not really that helpful in the long run.

meglet and starlight thanks also for your support! I'm hoping it does get better in the next few days.

Plasterer!

Aww! That's so nice! That would have been lovely, and it's really kind of you to think of that.

Of course, you are actually a complete stranger too - your real name is Dave the Plumber, innit?

Oh, I was gonna offer to do it for you (if you could cope with a different type of random stranger from inside your computer looking after your lo), but I have a driving lesson that evening.

You're not worrying over nothing btw, but I truly truly believe it will be okay with this teacher person.

Wednesday night

Oh DigitalGirl That sounds rough. Not helped by the hot weather I should imagine.

Ponymum When is your night out?

digitalgirl that sounds like it was tough last night. I think you have a good attitude and I agree with meglet that you might find your DS changes his pattern quite quickly. Just a question though - what is your goal at the moment? Is it to get him to go to sleep properly when you first put him down, or to get through the night without feeds? I think those are two different things. We have cracked the first but not the second. DD still wants a middle of the night feed about half the time, maybe more since it has been so hot (thirsty?). But... having cracked the first, the night feed is not so much hassle now as it's over and done with and she is back down straight away. HTH.

I was really worried about the babysitting thing last night. I have decided to phone Sitters on Monday morning and quizz them about this person's experience. If I am not 100% happy I will ask for another babysitter. If they get snotty I will cancel and find another agency. Does anyone know of another night time babysitting agency in London?

digital sorry you had a tough night last night. But you might find that ds's sleepit gets better very fast after a few tough nights. Hope your dh's mood improves, you need to work as a team to sort it out.

I love the way this thread has turned into a mini pushchair shed! I'm going to clean my rl shed out and see if I have much space in there, I really want the mothercare urban detour double to see me over the winter. The phil + teds sport is good but gives me a back ache as the handle bar is too low. We're walking distance from the town centre, but too far to attempt getting ds to go without a buggy to sit in. And the urban detour has a bigger shopping basket which will make life easier.

Better go...... Ds is making noise from his cot! "Mummeeeeeeeeee!"

I took over and got to bed at 3:20 after rocking him to sleep. He woke at 6 and DH brought him to our bed for a feed then went back to sleep. I managed to get him back in his cot for an hour and now he's awake for the day.

So that was 7 till 6 between feeds. But bloody hell that was hardwork. Probably go through same again tonight. DH is in a foul mood and has completely lost his patience with DS.

I don't know if cc is more difficult than this, because we are physically and mentally exhausted having just attempted a night of getting him back to sleep without feeding or co-sleeping. Or perhaps cc is easier because it's quicker.

Ds has been awake and crying since midnight.

very tempted to tell dh to just leave him in the cot and shut the door.

That does sound lovely ponymum

well last night was loads better. He didn't wake till about 1 and then DH resettled him. Then he woke at 3. DH woke me at 4 to feed him, he didn't go back to sleep till 5:30 as I refused to bring him in with us. He woke at 6 and dh brought him into our bed at 6:30. Then he slept till 8.

We're definitely working on losing the night feeds first. Get him used to that. That will take a few days of DH resettling then a week of me resettling without feeding which will be very difficult I think. Then depending on whether he's still waking loads we'll have to stop all the other props like taking him downstairs to play his CDs. But I really don't know how we'll ever get him to self settle without some form of crying. Gradual retreat sounds great but the moment he's placed in the cot awake, no matter how drowsy, he immediately pulls himself up and if I don't pick him up he cries. Holding his hand or stroking his face just annoy him when he wants to be picked up. How do you get a baby like that to fall asleep on their own?

This evening we had friends round. We'd exhausted him for bedtime so he went down easily after dh rocked him. But he woke up hourly to be resettled by DH. Potentially disturbed by the fact there were strange people in the house. Or maybe we're back to the newborn pattern of good night / bad night.

I want to follow my instincts on this and not read anymore books at the moment. I'm not ruling cc out. During the times where he's crying and getting angry with me I can see the benefit of putting him down and leaving the room for a few minutes. It's just doing that at the start of the night seems quite harsh at this stage. Although if none of the above improves our nights then it may be the next step.

thansk debs - I don't think I've ever seen one. I quite excited about collecting it.

I have a M&P that was given to me, but it's not good to push and I didn't think I'd want to use it for the toddler stage.

I reckon something like the Mutsy might be possible to sell on as well.

LOL

Are you suggesting we start the thread and then do something about making it happen?

Hi star [GRIN]
Gosh I hope I wasnt too needy
Anyone else up for starting a new thread due April 10 ?????
However, tbh i want to cherish every day of the stage Euans at. Im not quite ready to go there again.

Hi mamamincepies. Nice to see you pop in again! So sad you've been unwell. I know how that feels! The SPD is mostly under control but I get symptoms now and again when I have "done too much", i.e. a lot of lifting etc. I was doing really well with the recovery for quite a while - I have lost 18 kg since I have been out of the wheelchair and pilates has been AMAZING for me. But then a couple of months ago I had crippling abdomical pains and had to have an emergency appendectomy! It wasn't straight forward and the recoevery has been difficult, but I really hope things are now coming right. Tummy now has scars all over it - big one from the c section and 3 little ones from the appendectomy. It was like two huge steps backwards when that happened. I am still really scared and unsure about whether or not to risk another PG. Wondering whether I should just be a little bit 'careless' and let the decision make itself!! Then I'll be too freaked / excited to worry about what the hell I am doing!

Starlight love the Mia Moda buggy, we have the car seat and it is pretty good.
Ninja the Mutsy is good as well loads of people near us have one. The second one we were going to get until sis gave us her old mamas and papas.

We are really struggling with the heat. Robyn is finding it really tiring but still doesn't want to sleep. DS is up till all hours and wee cabn't open his window so it is like an oven in there.

Hey mamamincepies Don't tell me you haven't posted since Christmas

Have thought about you lots and wondered what you are up to. As is inevitable, we've lost some from the thread. Some have disappeared completely, but some are still around on MN in general. I think perhaps the level of support we once needed isn't quite so high now.

Your comment 'I never want this period of my life to end. I love babies.' has a fairly easy solution

ooopps Its mamamuffin not mincepies. Ill try to change it back.

Hi guys
I feel as though I am popping into see some old friends. Its so lovely to see most of you still together here. I feel quite bad for going off the radar for so long. But I am sure you understand. As I was so poorly with ms I was almost housband last year, you guys where so good to me. Now I always seem to be busy busy busy.
Euan is growing fast now as I am sure your little bundles are. I cant believe its nearly a year. I ve had the most amazing year of my entire life and have loved every single moment of it. I would do it all over again in a instant. I will soon be returning to the work place . I never want this period of my life to end. I love babies.
Ponymum has your spd completely gone now?
I ofen think of you all. gosh I wish I had time to read all the threads. Is there any major news Ive missed? xx

the funseat is something you can attach to the chassis for a toddler with a steering wheel etc. I'd be like pushing them in one of those car things I imagine. I don't know if this pictre's easier to understand.

You can also get a duo seat for the same chassis starlight

What do you have at the mo Starlight?

Ponymum I'm with Ninja I'm afraid. Don't cancel, just phone for reassurance.

And fwiw (perhaps because it is my second), I HAVE left baby Starlight with all kinds of people, some strangers, when I've had to deal with DS in an emergency of some kind and it has been fine.

ninja I can't make out the fun seat. Is it some kind of bungy-seat? BTW, I prefer the one you've bought to the other.

ponymum another pen friend would be great. Do let her know my email (on my website).

ninja a nanny isn't better than a babysitter/childminder/nursery nurse... but is better than a teacher in my view. It depends on the persons experience level with the relevant age group. This particular teacher may have such experience... or they may not - they certainly don't work with a babies/toddlers on a day-to-day basis.

I agree with you... ponymum should ask the agency about the person's experience with under 1's, about references, about relevant training. The agency in my view should be doing it's best to make sure the parent (their client) is as happy as possible.

pony it's nannynick's job to persuade people that a nanny is better than a childminder/nursery/babysitter/....

Why not phone the agency and 1) ask about her experience with 9 month olds 2) ask about references. You won't be the first mum who's asked

Ninja I'm just hoping it's not too heavy to push.

Like the musty. I've always wished I had a rear-facing one, especially as DS has language delay. I'm hoping my new one will help because buggy-board seat thing is rear-facing. It does seem like a bargain, - let;s hope it is!

Look at this fun seat you can get to fit on the chassis. I might have to look for one of these for when M is older

I had been thinking about this as it seemed a really good price for a new buggy

or a Britax vigour

well I've decided now so I can go to bed earlier - just have to stop myself worrying I made the wrong choice

starlight we will be at the theatre, and of course the whole point is to get immersed in the performance, isn't it? (esp with Ian McKellan, Patrick Stewart, etc) That's from 7:30 to 10:10 pm with an interval, then we are going to a chi chi restaurant and back home by 1am. It sounds so selfish when I put it like that... . I really thought it was possible to have a normal night out in a nice dress and everything. Now I am not so sure.

DH doesn't know why I am "suddenly worrying".

Starlight that looks handy for 2 - good price too

it's this

I wanted something that faced both ways and was good to push.

I read some really good reviews a couple of days ago, and now that I've paid for it all I can see are really mixed ones.

I think it's bigger than I thought, but it doesn't have to go in the car as I have a cheap Maclaren for that.

Yeah, - what's a musty?

Ponymum How far away from the hotel are you going? Is it possible to 'nip back' for reassurance now and then?

Oh god... the agency phoned back within minutes of us making the request this morning, and said, this is the name of the babysitter we have assigned to you. Apparently they send a text msg to everyone on their books within a half mile radius in central London. Is this just the first person who responded? I am nervous now. I think what I will do is phone the agency on Monday and ask for the best possible most suitable person, e.g. nursery nurse etc. nannynick you are right, it needs to be someone with current experience of a 9 month old baby! They assured me it was.

No my friend in NZ doesn't run a childcare company. Account manager for an interiors design company. Do you want another pen friend?

ninja what is a mutsy?

Ponymum I would try to be is all I can say. Otherwise what is the point?

this is the pram I'm after

Starlight I thought you were suggesting films for pony to watch for a while

I've bought a mutsy - hope I like it otherwise I'll have to become a permanent member of that pushchair thread.

Well as you are asking...

While a teacher may sound good... I don't think they would have enough experience of caring for a baby. I do not feel that the agency has matched you with someone who has recent experience of caring for a similar aged child.

The teacher may not have: First Aid Training, especially Infant Resuscitation. Now they may well have that training... as a nanny I have that training updated every 3 years... are all teachers first aid trained?

When in strange places, children can sleep differently. Keeping your DD to your usual evening routine should help. How your DD reacts to someone else putting her to bed though will be an unknown... with luck the teacher will have the patience of a saint and be happy to sit with DD for as long as it takes (if that is what is needed to keep DD calm).

With first timers, I use TXT messaging to keep in touch with the parents (well usually it's the mother who wants the updates). I prefer to send the occasional txt to keep mum informed, rather than having mum phone ever 30 mins.

Many parents will use a babysitter they have never met. Many parents say it goes fine.
I'm not a parent so I don't know what it is like to leave a child with someone I've never met... but my gut feeling about it is that I would want to meet the person first. While the agency are sending the person an hour early, what happens if you don't feel the person is suitable - I guess you still pay and don't go out.

For a relaxed evening out you need to have as much confidence in the person who is caring for your DD as possible. With luck the teacher will bring with her a portfolio of childcare references, training certificates, Criminal Record Check, that kind of thing... so you can have a look through it and give yourself the confidence to leave your DD in their capable hands. As they are coming an hour early... your DD will also have some time to get to know them.

At the moment, I think option C.
Why the agency could not have assigned you a Nanny, Maternity Nurse, Nursery Nurse or Childminder I don't know... surely any one of those would be a better match than a teacher (who may have lots of experience with 5-10 year olds, but not babies).

Yep, still "single and looking"
I occasionally chat with a lady my-age-ish in New Zealand... wonder if your friend is the same person - doesn't run a childcare company does she?

starlight ... not working so far is it?

Your mum babysitting is completely different, IMHO. This is a stranger. Would you really be that relaxed about it?

Ponymum Don't take your phone. Seriously. Let your DP take his, or give the number of the restaurant. The best nights out I've had is when I've forgotten my phone and it is too late to get it. Having said that, it has been my mum that has been babysitting, so I suppose I know that she knows how I would want things handled iyswim.

I expect this sitter has had all kinds of children and all kinds of parents. I can't see there being any problems.

By the way:

SEX TRAIN SPOTTING BOOBS ORAL STAMP COLLECTING

(just seeing if we can attract any other interesting new friends)

Hmmm... OK, I don't know whether to be freaked out or reassured.

Here's the situation: we are only in London for one night. This is the first time we are using Sitters. We haven't had a night out for a year. The babysitter they have assigned to us is apparently a teacher for her day job. She is arriving an hour before we have to leave. DD usually sleeps well in the evening, but the sitter will have to get her down shortly after we leave, and it is obviously a strange situation for DD.

Should I:
(a) chill, relax, and enjoy the night out?
(b) freak out, and either cancel or worry all night, and phone every 30 mins?
(c) something in between?

And nanynick, if you are still there, seriously, what is your professional opinion?
Also, I checked out your profile. Are you still "single and looking"? I have a friend who might like you. But she lives in New Zealand.

ponymum we used sitters when we were in the UK for DS1. The lady we had was amazing - we're still in touch with her 7 years on! She worked on the SCBU during the day, and had been a nanny. If your lady is anything like mine was you'll have no worries from the minute you meet her...

Quite right Starlight
I'll leave you to it now

pmsl at Nick turning up out of nowhere!

I'm guessing he does a search on all of his favourite topics.

ponymum I'm considering doing something similar.

ponymum if they're through an agency I'm sure they're fine. I would book one like this if I was somewhere like Center Parcs and lots of others do.

why psml Starlight? and how come Nannynick saw this thread???

pmsl - just pmsl

Ponymum - Would you hire a babysitter you had never met face to face? <- a recent Mumsnet discussion which may be of interest to you.
It will probably be ok... if your DD doesn't like the babysitter, oh well - you won't see the babysitter again.

Thanks starlight!

starlight I have just bought a new buggy. I also had a look at the pushachair shed last week - scary! Are these people made of money? Some of them have like six buggies, like a hobby. I felt very fish out of water. Do they actually use the buggies for LOs, or do they just collect them and obsess?

Anyhoo, we bought the petite star zia. It is so tiny and light! Now instead of having half the back seat down for the big buggy, this fits in a tiny corner. Folded up it is like the size of carry on luggage! You can tell I am happy with this.

We have just booked a babysitter through Sitters for our trip to London next week. Someone named Charlene who we have never met will come to the hotel at 6pm and then we will go out and leave our DD all alone with a stranger. This sounds like MADNESS!!! Surely this is not something a responsible parent would do. Help me get my head around this please.

AW Ponymum your routine sounds lovely!

digigirl We are frightened by CC, but have recently started a gentle sort of routine and DD has responded to it quite well. Here's what we do:
- No sleep after 4pm
- Dinner at 5pm - 6pm
- Bath 6pm with lovely lavender organic stuff
- Straight into darkened bedroom for gentle quiet story together on the bed
- Big bottle, lots of claming cues like shushing and I find gently stroking her cheek works amzingly to calm her down
- Pop dummy in a soon as she has finished her feed
By this time she is either asleep or very calm. Either way, we pop her into the cot. She is now so used to this that even if we put her down awake, she WANTS to go to sleep and will roll over and drift off!

We haven't used any techniques except consistency and common sense, i.e. quiet dark room, calming cues like stroking and quiet monotone soothing voices.

The only time we tried CC, DD was just being silly and refusing to go to sleep. After the five minutes I went to settle her and found she was crying because she had wriggled her leg through the bar of the cot and was stuck! Don't want to do that again. But... I am trying to learn what is a distressed cry, and what is a 'I am really tired and will soon shut up and go to sleep' cry. I aim to err on the side of being soft!

Hey DG Hoping your night was better and you've figured out a working plan.

Hope you had a better night DG x

How did you get on DG??
I'm a big fan of routine too, I honestly find if DS2 does not nap at the "correct" times (for him)/sleeps too little/too long his night time sleep is disturbed. I also agree with ILTMIMI that you must stick to a plan for at least a week, whatever you decide to do...

I think I'm going to take on board some of the tips she gave that I've also read on here before embarking on cc. Today I made sure he didnt nap after 4. I also made sure he had a really big dinner, takes some persevering but we got there in the end. Then I breastfed him downstairs after his bath so that he didn't immediately drop off. Then DH rocked him to sleep upstairs by which time he was knackered.

We'll see how often he wakes tonight. Am going to try and only feed him once.

I've been offered some more freelance work starting nxt week so all routines are going to be upset again. I'm going to give my mum strict instructions not to let him sleep for hours and hours during the day. Problem is she looks after him after doing a night shift so it's easier for her if he sleeps all day. Bloody hell I've got to sort out some proper childcare.

Right think I'll go to bed now as starlight suggested.

Digital - forget what everyone (and I mean everyone) has said to you, and take some time (alone)to think about these questions:

Why do you think ds is waking up? eg is he hungry, does he need human contact/assurance, habit? etc etc

If you think you know what is getting in the way of ds's sleep, how would you like to tackle it?

If you don't know what is getting in the way of ds's sleep, how would you like to tackle it?

Also, has your ds slept ok previously? If yes, has anything changed? Illness? Teething? Has there been a disruption in your lives (have you started work again etc)? The hot weather?

My advice would be, however you choose to tackle it, you need to make a plan and stick to it for at least a week. Don't jump from one 'solution' to another (I've been guilty of this and it doesn't work.)

When you are in the situation you are in it is hard to see the wood through the tree's, which is why I suggest you take some time and thought over what you do.

If we can be of any help, just shout. Sleep training can be very draining.

You will get there

DG I'm afraid I agree with the others.

I know q few people who've used CC and they've often said that any slight change (a holiday, hot weather, illness, teeth, ....) and they've had to do it again and that it broke their heart every time.

Is there any way you can both find a way of getting more sleep? One of you cosleeping with him at a time? For DD1 I had a mattress in her room next to the cot, so I could lie and comfort her. In fact we moved her onto a double mattess at 18 months and it was the best thing we did - she never liked the cot.

DG I'm a fan of CC but know that you're not so will offer my half-way-house advice.

A common theory is that if babies have a sleep prop, then when they come into a light sleep during the night, they might wake up fully if that sleep prop is not there. For my dd this was her dummy and she couldn't find it and put it back in again, so we did CC. For ds he grabs a muslin and sucks his thumb, then he's straight back to sleep. Although I don't go to him overnight, I know he wakes up and plays and settles back to sleep again during the night. Therefore as your ds is fed to sleep, he needs to be fed again when he's come into a light sleep. I would therefore try to crack the problem at the start of the night, and not feed him to sleep. If you don't want to do CC at that time, you could do the shush-pat, or pick-up-put-down, or gradual withdrawl (where over the course of several nights you gradually sit further from the cot until you're out of the room), or any other method which means he goes to sleep in his cot having been put there awake. Could you feed your ds, then your dh do the dim light/cuddles thing? Once he's reliably settling at bedtime, there's a chance he'll self-settle better in the night, or at the very least need fewer feeds and only feed for hunger rather than re-settling. HTH.

We found out today that they house we like is under offer, but as we haven't had an offer yet, we might have to watch it slip away

DG I have re-read my last post and I hope you dont think I am being overly critical of you or your dh...its just that I know how hard it is when you are sleep deprived to make decisions and how much soul searching goes on prior to these decisions, but the PN nurse was talking complete drivel - her view was prevalent in the 1950's and remember - it is only her view.

There are lots of things to try before CC.

I never thought my ds1 would EVER sleep through - I can remember sitting on the sofa whilst my mum was here and I was sobbing and almost hallucinating with fatigue and wondering what I was doing wrong as everyone elses baby seemed to sleep....He is 6 and does now sleep pretty well and happily goes up to bed and falls asleep with no fuss...I would never have believed it but these stages do pass xx