Autumn Statement 2013 - your thoughts(91 Posts)
The Autumn Statement is currently live on the BBC
Thought to be included are a potential faster rise in pension age, married couples tax allowance, growth forecasts to be revised up and a fuel duty freeze
Share your thoughts below.
Great news that there is to be capital gains tax on residential UK properties owned by foreigners - the current situation is bizarre and creates expensive empty properties in London as we have become a tax haven for rich foreigners with their choice of tax free asset being prime London property.
If retirement age is genuinely tracked by life expectancy, surely it needs to vary region by region.
Also, where have they got 94 from if they are arguing that a third of ones adult life is to be spent in retirement? In 2011 our life expectancy in the UK was 80.75. If we retire at 69 are they arguing we don't come into adulthood until we are 47?
Tell us how much the deficit still is not how much we will be borrowing over the next few years. I want to know what the figures are, not spin on how much we'll have to borrow to make the payments.
Good about capital gains tax but why wait til 2015?
Great that fuel duty is to be frozen.
I don't have a problem with raising retirement age given most of us will probably end up working still in the erstwhile 'twilight' years as cost of living too high and pensions down the swanny.
I know the FSM for KS1 children wasn't overly popular on MN, but if its done right I think it is a good think.
Transferable tax rate will be good for us.
I think that most people my age (30's) and younger are probably of the mindset that by the time we come to retire there will not be a state pension.
Ed Balls always comes off as blustering and a tad incompetent, however he tries to respond.
I've been watching and there's not much that's caught my eye. What would affect our family most is better (rather than worse) funding of early years provision and then I might be able to get a job - or not have lost the last one due to funding cuts.
Think free school meals for children in KS1 is a positive initiative, though won't affect our family. But my DC have always had school dinners and I think that's been beneficial and worth it for us.
I've been watching and there's not much that's caught my eye
My eyes keep getting drawn to the guy sitting above GO who is texting
omuwalamulungi - I thought the same, many areas of the country will never be able to retire just on age, let alone cost of living, and there are many jobs that won't be able to be done by most at that age. Quite a few problems with that that they aren't acknowledging.
I'm guessing the delay is allow their friends time to sell their homes first before it comes in .
I'm confused about his inclusion of income support in his cap - hasn't that been replaced by Employment Support Allowance? And other than housing benefit, it seems most will be affecting those with disabilities. We can't exactly cap how many disabled people there are, guess he plans to just leave more people in limbo since they've already cut out more support for people with disabilities getting into work.
Good point Spork, should have allowed for nepotism!
A kick in the teeth for single mothers and feminists.
Issues over separate taxation of husband and wife which people fought for for so long. Encouragement of the wife to stay home and not work because of this new payment etc etc.
Yes Spork regarding "there are many jobs that won't be able to be done by most at that age (68)"
For the last 25 yrs I've worked with young children and their families and I doubt I am going to find someone to employ me in this role well into my 60s. I don't see other 60+ ers doing this work.
It's probably all very well if you can spend your days dozing on the benches of the Commons (and texting your mates ) and then eventually end your working days pontificating from the even more comfy posh red seats of the Lords.
Think I might have to semi-retire to Norfolk and run a B&B with DH
(not just joking)
Yes indeed - due to further cuts to work and pensions dept, there is definitely no hope for me or my profession ever being properly funded. It's been cut so hard already
Some things make sense (tax discs) but I still maintain that cuts create more expense for the public in the future - especially to early years and vulnerable families etc.
Nothing for middle income one wage families- again!
KS 2 kids so no free dinners.
Not married so no married tax allowance.
If we were married we wouldn't be eligible for the £1k tax transfer as we're just in the HTR.
Think we've got the Tory message loud and clear re one income,middle income families.Roll on the general election.
The job I do is physically demanding and emotionally draining. I cannot see myself doing it for another ten years let alone til I'm in my seventies! My NHS pension will also be very poor due to working very part time for the past 13 years while my kids were small and working abroad for a while. I too don't think there will be a state pension by the time I retire.
The married couples tax thingumy bob is a nonsense. It's social engineering. Most married couples I know are better off than single people. It discriminates against unmarried people and it's clearly just a measure to try and win votes before the election.
Will it be difficult to organise I'm wondering (the 1k tax transfer)?
Not impressed with the money they're wasting on giving well off families free dinners which we all know are generally shite quality and they could easily fund themselves.
Seems to be money available to fritter when they want it- generally when it's to push Tory idealism eg marriage.
All the good married families get a pat on the head, the rest of us are just not worthy.
Oh ffs, my pension age has gone up by another year. Given family history of keeling over in their sixties, maybe it's time for me to just stop thinking about that.
Pleased about dd monthly thing for road fund licence as mine and dhs are due in the same month.
MY DH has a manual job there is no was that he could continue with this job until 70. Not all people work in offices pushing pens all day, some people come home each day aching and dirty.
Employment Support Allowance replaced Incapacity Benefit not income support
Osborne Announces Cuts That Take the UK Economy Back to 1948
Under Coalition plans, “day to day spending on public services… (will be at) It’s smallest share of national income since 1948”. George Osborne’s 2013 Autumn Statement on spending plans for the UK government consisted of 7,025 words and took 50 minutes to read – but could have been summed up by that one line in the report of the government’s fiscal watchdog, the Office for Budget Responsibility.
On arrival in government, the Conservative section of the Coalition government were keen to present austerity as temporary, necessary and purely practical. Back in 2010, Cameron claimed that he “didn’t come into politics to make cuts”, and that austerity was simply temporary spending restraint based on a necessary effort to cut the deficit, not “some ideological zeal”.
In 2013, ‘Austerity’ is delivering the half century long ambition of the Conservative party: to revoke the post-war social contract of the United Kingdom.
The modern welfare state: decent pensions, affordable and decent social housing, a publicly funded and managed healthcare system, a reliable and low cost transport system, the guarantee of a decent education regardless of circumstances of birth. This was the social contract the UK public signed up to in the post war period. Why? Because these generations had lived through the horrific consequences of unrestrained capitalism; enormous inequality, widespread poverty and destitution, starving and malnourished children, an entrenched class system, the benefits of the hard work of the many enjoyed by a privileged and undeserving few.
Amusing that I regard them as wet wet wet, tinkering whilst the debt grows and grows and the left think the Government is cutting too much.
It replaced both Darkesteyes, back in 2008. The transfer from those to the new version was a bit mashed up with a lot of reassessments and likely not complete nationwide at the governments rate, but it's not something one can claim now, it's only available to those who were already on it. No point in including it in a cap when it has mostly been replaced and can't go up anyways.
> Amusing that I regard them as wet wet wet, tinkering whilst the debt grows and grows and the left think the Government is cutting too much.
Is your MP a Tory? Have you asked him or her to go after the > £100 Billion / year in tax evasion?
Its very difficult to get a job in your 50s already, raising the retirement age will mean those people who lose their jobs in their fifties may have to support themselves for a very long time until they get the state pension.
That is a very good point zebra they will also be forced to attend the job centre regularly to prove how they are trying to find work.
This happened to my Mum. In those days she was able to retire at 60, however when she lost her job at 56-ish it was hell trying to get another one because of her age.
I'm thinking that unless employers take on board that staff will be around a lot longer, things will be very tough for that age group.
And this government isn't exactly strong on employment rights - seems like the employers have all the cards these days.
Raising pension age also very inequitable for those living in parts of the country where average life expectancy isn't much past 70. a pretty sick example of a harsh and over-the-top deficit reduction strategy.
Not heard much else of the detail yet tho..
looks like we are heading as a country in the right direction
All very depressing. On a personal note, free school meals quite cheering as DD goes into reception in September 2014 but other than that nothing to feel positive about. And I feel the same about pensions - by the time we actually get to pension age (in our late 80s by that stage no doubt) there will be nothing left to claim.
I retired as a full-time teacher two years ago, aged sixty- five; both my parents worked as long as they were allowed- sixty-five and seventy, and would have worked longer if they could; stop whingeing and be thankful you have got a job. Please don't start about the quality of the work of older people; from what I observe we have produced a generation of lazy, under performing children who don't want to work when they have the opportunity.
MY DH has a manual job there is no was that he could continue with this job until 70. Not all people work in offices pushing pens all day, some people come home each day aching and dirty
You don't have to do a manual job and be aching and dirty to do a physically and emotionally demanding day's work.
Under Coalition plans, “day to day spending on public services… (will be at) It’s smallest share of national income since 1948”. George Osborne’s 2013 Autumn Statement on spending plans for the UK government consisted of 7,025 words and took 50 minutes to read – but could have been summed up by that one line in the report of the government’s fiscal watchdog, the Office for Budget Responsibility
Sums it up really.
It was complete rubbish.
The capital gains tax thing will only apply to gains from 2015 for foreign owners of properties, no easing of the cost of living for ordinary folk. The government are basically hoping that the whole of the UK economy can survive on forever rising house prices as all other industries are either dying or broke. Basically a sop to the older generation who tend to have large homes they bought cheaply, good pensions etc and a "screw you" to the younger generations who are going to be forced to work until they die in order to pay for a hovel to a slum landlord (and because the young don't tend to vote, they can do this with ease).
It's short-termism in the hope that they get re-elected (not a hope in hell).
I am feeling very bleak about the future, we can't save because my earnings are eaten by childcare and DHs just cover our (very frugal) living costs. The cost of living is going up but our salaries aren't and neither of us have secure jobs.
We work so hard and I feel like we will be working until we die to finance an increasingly mean existence.
Very positive and the OBRs projections going into the future also look good particularly in comparison to our competitors.
More people working longer surely isn't good news for young people and the million or so NEET that cannot find a job?
ophelia - you have summed it up perfectly there..
Why does the number of older people working affect the number of younger people, the labour market is not a zero sum game.
> We work so hard and I feel like we will be working until we die to finance an increasingly mean existence.
That's exactly what is going on, and it will continue to get worse until we fight back.
> Why does the number of older people working affect the number of younger people, the labour market is not a zero sum game.
That's misleading. At any one point, it is a zero sum game, as there are only so many jobs available. Having people work for longer means that jobs are occupied which would otherwise be taking up by the staggering numbers of unemployed young people who can't find work.
Well put ttosca - exactly my thoughts.
Maybe not in the longer term utreas, but in the short to medium term the lack of turnover must have an impact on the younger workforce.
A small example - my MIL works full time in a traditionally 'young persons industry' but at the age of 64 still feels she needs to continue working in order to be secure financially before retirement.
Somebody reassure me they won't get back in.
What is the actual likelihood?
The Tory scum? There's no way they'll get a majority in 2015. It'll be another hung Parliament.
So what Condems all over again?
Unlikely, Lib Dem share predicted to plummet. UKIP are a worry in some areas so could be interesting.
I'm prepared to emigrate if UKIP manage to do anything significant.
Agree with everything Orphelia said. It was rubbish and why wait till 2015 to bring in this capital gains tax on foreign property owners? Perhaps Osborne's worried about crashing the London property market before he finally gets booted out (can't wait and counting down the days).
It will probably be a Lab/Lib coalition.
So what would a lib/lab gov be like?
I have no idea. Labour will be too chicken shit to reverse many of the Tories' policies, and too beholden to corporate interests in any case. We don't really have a functioning democracy.
It might not be quite as nasty as the Tories... maybe a bit less racism and hatred of the poor, disabled, and unemployed, but it will most likely be a continuation of the same neo-liberal policies we'd have for the past 30+ years which has given us such gross wealth inequality, suppressed wages, huge personal debt, privitization, etc.
Who knows what the Lib Dems stand for - treacherous bastards.
It's a giant ponzi scheme. The young are being sacrificed in every way possible so that the older generation can "have it all" because they are the ones that vote.
So the younger generation can look forward to;
No pension until they reach 70 (if they live that long),
Never owning their own home and having to pay perpetually to rent a hovel from a slum landlord, taking up most of their pay (if they have a job),
Huge university debts (if they bother to educate themselves),
No jobs and low pay for the jobs there are
Competition from foreign workers who will work for a pittance and live in squalid conditions, courtesy of slum landlord,
High cost of food, energy, travel whilst the older generation get multiple subsidies (free bus passes, winter allowance, warm home grants etc).
Basically a return to Dickensian times for the young or renter scum.
Basically the Tories hate the young (and they are all multimillionaires so have no need to worry how their own young will cope).
Why do you thnk I'm voting UKIP?
ophelia27, that's not far off the truth, some good points there.
But it's not about old vs young, that is what they want us to believe with their think tank inspired "intergenerational divide" and "intergenerational injustice" that they talk about on our TVs.
Just to explain further why it is not a good ride for the old.
Cost of living is going up, prices are going up and their savings of a lifetime are declining because interests rates have been held down in order to try and get some recovery and growth. Old people getting worse care in care homes and in hospitals, some even dying of dehydration on wards.
How many 70 year olds do you ever see on TV or as politicians?
The Tory party is full of trendy "modernisers", young progressive A-listers straight out of Oxbridge, never done a job except for in a think tank, PR, spin or aa a speech writer. And Tory party membership has declined by half as older members who have believed in them for years and worked for them for years have abandoned them because the "modernisers" with their "hug a hoodie" policies don't represent their views.
And Labour are not much different. Everybody is being screwed - young and old - on the big, global, macro scale.
However, on the micro scale, which is the only scale the politicians have any power over, I thought the budget was not so bad.
Rate freezes and cuts for business and new businesses, free school meals and an attempt to let hardworking people keep more of their money. All good and all attempts to reward enterprise and growth. Better than what New Labour would offer - more irresponsible spending and waste which would only create a bigger mess in years to come.
This budget was an attempt to climb out of the pit that Labour hurled us down. It's going to be a struggle, there is no easy ride, but at least Osborne has given us a ladder to start our climb.
Osborne said something like council tax had doubled over New Labour's rule, but that he had capped the rise over the Tory five years.
That's good. Keep it up Gideon. Let people keep what little money they earn instead of siphoning it off to be wasted by bureaucrats and government fat cats.
Shame Osborne was defeated in his attempts to get more tax from this proliferation of what are called "charities" all over the land. Maybe if they get in next time, they'll be able to stop all these "expenses" claimed by the progressives who seem to be all over those "charities".
Anyone who thinks Gideon is doing good job at economic recovery needs to read the IFS response to the growth forecast today..
This will be overshadowed (understandably) by the news of Mandelas death to Gideon's relief.
Labour didn't hurl us down any pit, public spending was not the cause of the financial crisis.
Sorry, go back to home and start again.
I think Osbourne made Ed Balls look very foolish.
Autumn Statement -
Green deal still a bad deal. Chucking extra cash at councils for their buildings, and landlords for theirs is not helping the millions that need this deal. The interest rate for a Green Deal loan is at 7% when a home improvement mortgage can be got for 3%. In Europe green deal rates were BELOW mortgage rates. I'm sitting here shivering while the Germans have free umweltfreundliches underfloor heating and pleasing town centres with buildings that aren't damp and dilapidated.
Pension age - so what? The poor won't live that long or will be disabled by the age of 70 and the wealthy work as consultants as long as they can anyway - as a result of a healthy lifestyle due to only working part time from their middle age due to their high incomes. It just means higher childcare costs for the government as grandparents are too busy.
Wages have hardly gone up for 25 years. This needs to change and the government should NOT be subsidising tightwad tescos with working tax credits while TTs invest their enormous profits in taking over the universe and all its convenience stores.
Small businesses - there aren't any able to survive once the creditors and contractors get the scent of blood. The bigger businesses bring them down because they can - and this budget hasn't made them any more capable of surviving against this ruthless pack.
This is the start of the reception campaign it will be only "good" news from now on in, take all of these 2015 policy proposals with a massive pinch of salt. They've already deleted their pre election promises from the website from the last election so that doesn't install much confidence in any of this Autumn Statment...
Opps " election " not reception!!
I thought the one significant thing that came out of the exchange was that the Labour party are in no fit shape to take over in 2015. Balls' performance was woeful and his repetitive messages about flatlining and how the austerity measures aren't working ring very hollow in the face of the stats. Now better growth is predicted and tax receipts are going to rise it makes it a lot easier to cut public spending, ironically. Trump card will be if the Coalition can turn a surplus.
The fact that the whole of our economy is based on hoping and doing everything possible to make house prices
completely unaffordable for anyone who isn't a millionaire higher (in order to win the votes of the older "my home is my pension" generation) and get tax receipts from stamp duty/inheritance tax is such a dreadful economic policy it basically shows how inept and clueless these politicians are. The fact that they all come from one elite group of rich Oxbridge graduates (Major was right) who have no real work experience but get jobs based on their wealth and connections just shows how out of touch they are with ordinary people.
I don't think people vote based on whether Treasury decides there is a surplus or not.
People vote based on what they see around them, their friends losing jobs, their friends children being forced to work at tescos for tuppence or do free internships, their requests to councils, hospitals, services for support which are turned down or not possible because of the cuts.
Labour is making the same mistake of assuming that general bleatings in the House will make people support them. It might work inside that room, but it doesn't work in the real world where millions are unable to heat their homes and feed their families but wages aren't going up.
And tweaking these things doesn't help either - a few pounds here and a few percent there makes no difference if year on year the economy only benefits the big businesses, the landed gentry (homeowners) and the overpaid professionals. I do wish they would stop treating people like idiots and get on and mke some real changes.
Raising the pension age is a classic example of 'oh shit money's really running out now, let's do something quick that looks good to the IMF and covers me and my friends backs.'
There are alternatives to this - like increasing tax on high pensions.
well done to the landlord-haters, you've got it into this thread.
to save effort next time, copy and paste this: 'all rented properties are slums and all landlords are crooks.'
why not start a petition to make owning property a crime?
BTW, those who can't sell properties and are renting them; the CGT exemption period has been halved, from the last three years of ownership to 18 months. But of course as you make a fortune from your shivering tenants who always pay the rent and never trash the place, and you don't have to pay big insurances and all the other maintenance costs, you don't care.
of course if savers weren't dirt you might not have gone into the whole process in the first place, because your diligence and lack of extravagance would be rewarded. But no, you are stupid for saving, you should have spent on things with someone else's name on and energy guzzling gadgets. You can get good rates on loans for those.
(end of rant)
I don't think the main is thinking that all rented properties are slums or that all landlords are crooks, but there is a lot of frustration that unlike many other places, the government has refused to give tenants much protection from slum landlords or estate agents that encourage them and rising prices. They're doing nothing on that front because so much of property is in the wealthiest hands, those that back political parties as well as their political ideology that home ownership is the be-all of responsible adults and mostly ignore tenants unless its to help us to buy. It's the government and politicians that are the aim of the frustration, not hardworking landlords.
Indeed. Labour will be much worse.
I also agree that it was a pity the abolition of charity tax relief did not get through when they last tried. I want simple low flat taxes (and a much smaller state) and no distortions from the complex tax reliefs the state keeps introducing from the patent box to relief for film makers. They just distort the market and are state sanctioned avoidance.
Most landlords rent out one property. Many rent it out because they have had to move for work and they rent themselves in the town of their new job. Until we removed frozen rents and tenancies for life there was no private rented sector - only those as old as I am remember those days and they were not the good old days; they were the very bad old days of renting. Most landlords are lucky to make 4% before tax on their rented property (I know that is the case with my daughter who cannot afford to live in her own flat and in fact in her case the expenses are not covered entirely by the rent so owing it is simply an expensive hope/risk that at some point she can afford to live in it).
When I was a little girl, the father of one of my friends committed suicide: he rented out a house but the controlled rent he got in did not cover his outgoings and he had no right to give notice to the tenants, and no way he could sell the house with them in situ. He spent all his money (earnings from a job) subsidising the tenants before he finally could see no other way out without leaving his family destitute - he was relying on his life insurance to see them get through.
Rent control was finally abolished because, surprise surprise, no new properties were coming onto the rental market and owners would rather leave properties empty than risk getting into the kind of situation that befell my friend's father.
If you want landlords to let out houses (we do) then you have to let them charge enough rent to make a return, and you have to give them the security of knowing that they can get their asset back within a reasonable time frame if they ever need to. Competition will keep the prices down if there is sufficient supply. The current rising prices are due to the lack of supply which itself is down to an increase in the number of households together with insufficient house building. These factors are not the landlords' fault.
Profplum your example is sad but extinct.
Juliet if you want 'low, flat taxes' try living in Afghanistan, Algeria or Albania. Choose from this list. There is an interesting trend you will find that the most developed healthy countries have higher taxes and the most dysfunctional hostile ones have low taxes. Think it through.
something what exactly is your complaint - are you a saver or a landlord? Highly iikely to be both. If landlord life is so hard, sell your property and invest it in something more profitable.
Bah humbug. And if you think charities are ripping you off, don't ever go to the foodbank when times are tough.
Not something wrong name, specialsubject
I lost faith in lots of charities ages ago, and I'm not the only one. But you keep giving them your hard-earned money.
"Charity Commission 'not fit for purpose', says Margaret Hodge
Highly critical report warns commission's failure to investigate fraud and abuse was undermining public faith in good causes"
"Commenting on the report, Hodge, the chair of the public accounts committee, said the commission "risks undermining public trust" in charities."
The inquiry was prompted by MPs' concerns over a complex tax avoidance scheme operated by the Cup Trust, a registered charity. The charity gave £152,292 to good causes while attempting to claim £46m back from the tax authorities in Gift Aid on £177m income. In 2010 it attracted more donations than the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds, the British Heart Foundation or the Salvation Army.
George Osborne introduced a cap of £50,000 on charitable tax relief last year after identifying widespread abuse. But an outcry from philanthropists persuaded the government to change its mind."
Shame Osborne did not succeed with his plans, but lots of well-heeled "philanthropists" came out of the woodwork and howled him down.
"Gordon Brown’s secret army could defeat the Coalition’s welfare and education reforms
Britain’s charities and quangos are now stuffed to the gunwales with Labour placemen "
"Only now, long after the election, do we begin to realise how clever Gordon Brown really was. After the crash, in his last two years in office, he started preparing for a new kind of Opposition. Labour might be turfed out of government, but it could carry on the fight through charities, quangos and think tanks. At one stage, Brown had a team in Downing Street devoted to appointments in public bodies, carefully building what would become a kind of government-in-exile. And if the Tories tried anything radical – like welfare reform – then Labour’s new fifth columnists would strike."
And if all the landlords sold up there would be a housing crisis, because governments are not prepared to spend the money to build the necessary housing stock. That's why landlords are vital. It's cheaper than them starting from scratch and building lots of new homes.
"IT is a great shame that Ukip, which did spectacularly well in last week’s local elections, has ditched its long-standing commitment to a flat tax. It
But a flat tax, thought through properly and phased in carefully over a number of years, would hugely benefit the British economy."
There is lots of money wasted in charitable tax relief for "philanthropists" etc and in taxpayer money being used to promote and help the Spice Girls of Ethiopia etc. If all of that was cut, then more of the taxpayer's money could remain in people's pockets and that would fuel economic growth as it would be spent in the economy here rather than being wasted by progressives overseas and ending up in progressives' pockets.
"New research, released today, reveals the true extent of government funded lobbying by charities and pressure groups .
This report argues that, when government funds the lobbying of itself, it is subverting democracy and debasing the concept of charity. It is also an unnecessary and wasteful use of taxpayers’ money "
The above report is amazing. I've only skimmed it, but it is fascinating.
It explains how the EU, governments and elites fund some of the "climate change" groups etc that they want the public to believe in using public money. Spin, social engineering and sock puppetry to lead the public where they want them to go.
wondering, no wonder you're wondering. It is all out of newspapers and reports from the Institute of Economic Affairs. I'm not making it up.
'George Osborne introduced a cap of £50,000 on charitable tax relief last year after identifying widespread abuse'
It is a shame Osborne didn't win and the "philanthropists" won, but maybe if the Tories get in again, they may look at it again, which will mean that they can reduce taxation on ordinary people as they take more tax from the "philanthropists".
Read the IEA report and you will see how they fund "climate change" organisations with taxpayer money who lobby for green taxes to tax the public further and how they do not fund climate sceptic organisations which want to "cut the green crap".
Yeah, the IEA report is mental, well worth a read.
claig have you got a link to the IEA report? I would like to have a read of it.
ironman, it is an amazing report. It explains all the politically correct spin at the taxpayer's expense. No wonder they don't want UKIP to win, because lots of this publicly funded spin would be scrapped. An end to the gravy train at the public's expense. Here it is.
Osborne wanted to be rid of the much abused charitable tax relief, but many large donors who often fund political parties too stopped it.
Let people give to the poor because they want to not for the tax breaks.
Simple tax systems mean fewer abuses, less avoidance and people taking decisions based on how they think not how the state is telling them to think for the tax break concerned.
The Autumn Statement was an expected not very exciting and does not affect most people in a material way as there is no money to be had.
I am confused. The IEA says it is a charty but also that it receives no funding from the government.
wondering, not all charities receive government funding.
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