Police commissioner elections: I'm spoiling my paper

(110 Posts)
Cartoonjane Wed 07-Nov-12 20:39:18

What a lot of popycock this is. It seems to me to be a leaflet making competition as I don't know any of the candidates. I have decided to spoil my paper.

Declutterbug Wed 07-Nov-12 20:43:24

I considered doing the same, as I disagree with the whole idea and no absolutely nothing about any of the candidates. However, in the end I decided I had better vote against the BNP and that was quite important.

PiratesKnittingTreasure Wed 07-Nov-12 20:47:29

I'm doing the same Cartoon. I have to go and vote (I just couldn't bring myself not to turn up!) but I'm spoiling my paper.

It's nonsense.

PoppyWearer Wed 07-Nov-12 20:49:57

I was really struggling with the idea of not turning up. I am evangelical about voting.

Spoiling my paper, that I can do.

PoppyWearer Wed 07-Nov-12 20:50:16

I was really struggling with the idea of not turning up. I am evangelical about voting.

Spoiling my paper, that I can do.

PoppyWearer Wed 07-Nov-12 20:50:34

Oops, sorry!

ISpyPlumPie Wed 07-Nov-12 20:51:51

I'm struggling with this too - the thought of not voting in any election just seems completely wrong, but don't really agree with the concept and not one of the candidates has deigned to send a leaflet so no idea what they stand for.

Thankfully no BNP candidate round here, though there is UKIP - not in the same league I know, but still think I should at least try to keep them out.

Chunkamatic Wed 07-Nov-12 20:52:16

Sounds like a reasonable alternative. Getting a bit sick of hearing how they are worried about a low turn out when they haven't even bothered to put one leaflet through my door to tell me who the candidates are.

Cartoonjane Wed 07-Nov-12 20:53:08

That's why I'm spoiling my paper poppywearer and pirates. I just can't bring myself not to vote. I am trying to get my friends to do the same hoping that if enough people spoil some sort of message will get through. My partner has already done his as he has a postal vote.

hellhasnofurylikeahungrywoman Wed 07-Nov-12 20:53:17

We haven't had a single leaflet about all of this. I think I am going to go down the spoilt paper route too.

CogitoErgoSometimes Thu 08-Nov-12 14:50:40

Given that police chiefs have presided over some massive cover-ups and cock-ups in recent years is no-one even slightly suspicious that they might have a vested interest in making sure this initiative fails at the first hurdle? Worried about what the new commissioners will do when they have the mandate of the electorate to start shining lights into skeleton-filled closets....?

If you don't know the candidates, make an effort to find out who they are.

AvengingGerbil Thu 08-Nov-12 14:54:30

Decisions are made by the ones who show up. Spoiling your paper won't stop there being a police commissioner in your area. If you don't use your vote, then the people who do will make the choice without you.

shrimponastick Thu 08-Nov-12 14:54:56

We have only had one flyer through the door. if they were that bothered surely they should promote themselves bettter?

I haven't decided what to do yet.

Bramshott Thu 08-Nov-12 15:13:04

Hmm, I'm unsure - like others, I've considered not voting, and considered spoiling my ballot.

It's actually very easy to find out who your candidates are though - www.policeelections.com - you enter you postcode and it brings them up.

Emandlu Thu 08-Nov-12 15:14:59

I found out who my candidates were and have gone to speak to all of them. I now know who I am voting for.

Welovecouscous Thu 08-Nov-12 15:15:34

I'm spoiling too sad

LtEveDallas Thu 08-Nov-12 15:23:58

I found out who my candidates were, read up on them all, discovered one has being doing work for years with survivors of Domestic Abuse, and has promised to recruit more DA Advisors, so have chosen to vote for him.

This is a good website HERE that is very informative.

I understand it, but don't think that a spoiled vote is agood idea, God knows who might get in then.

My understanding was that there was only going to be online publicity for candidates although I have seen billboard posters for an independant candidate.

I'm going to vote because the BNP / Tory / UKIP supporters will be out like a rash round our way, so it will help to dilute their vote if nothing else. We have a BNP councillor in a village near us, so there is a possibility of us getting some right wing headcase, however limited their powers.

fluffyanimal Thu 08-Nov-12 15:27:02

What I don't understand is why the candidates are political party affiliates. I'm not against the principle of elected police commissioners per se, but why can't we vote for police commissioners who are all independent and who stand on their own agendas for doing the job?

Or have I missed something fundamental?

Cartoonjane Thu 08-Nov-12 15:28:33

I don't want the whole system. I don't want to contribute to it. I am hoping that if enough people spoil their paper it will undermine the whole thing and I suppose what I want is for it to be scrapped.

JuliaScurr Thu 08-Nov-12 15:28:38

Maybe we could get an online campaign going about DV & police commissioners?

JuliaScurr Thu 08-Nov-12 15:31:24
JuliaScurr Thu 08-Nov-12 15:32:49
MrsHoarder Thu 08-Nov-12 15:43:43

I'm tempted to vote for the independent candidate for 2 reasons:

1. To avoid political parties feeling like this is a route their high-fliers can take
2. Because she's the only candidate who has bothered to put a leaflet through my door/put posters up locally.

CogitoErgoSometimes Thu 08-Nov-12 16:58:04

"I don't want the whole system. I don't want to contribute to it."

Do you believe the police are accountable via the current system? I don't.

Narked Thu 08-Nov-12 17:26:53

And you know what always makes things more fair and accountable - introducing party politics!

Plomino Thu 08-Nov-12 17:54:23

I have plenty of thoughts on the whole issue . However , seeing as I have been forbidden to share them , I will have to keep my opinions to myself .

giraffe213 Thu 08-Nov-12 18:09:30

I don't think spoiling your paper will make any difference compared to staying at home, really. I'd be very surprised if there was a majority of spoilt papers anywhere, so it will basically be a wasted opportunity. It shouldn't be too hard to find out some basic information on the internet and then make a decision based on that, if only to keep out those you like the least.

One independent candidate put a leaflet through my door but my understanding is that it's supposed to be internet-only.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

EdgarAllanPond Thu 08-Nov-12 18:17:13

i would vote against having a vote on this.

policing shouldn't be a political football.

AvengingGerbil Thu 08-Nov-12 18:18:02

You can spoil you papers but you will still have an elected police commissioner. Only you will not have helped select her.

If you want to protest the system, write to your MP.

CogitoErgoSometimes Thu 08-Nov-12 18:23:02

Policing is already a political football when it should be serving the community. We're the community...

EdgarAllanPond Thu 08-Nov-12 18:45:29

"
Policing is already a political football when it should be serving the community."

this is true. however the commisioners system doesn't work all that well for the US, does it?

mercibucket Thu 08-Nov-12 18:55:20

I am also spoiling mine. This means I am an active citizen, as noone gives a toss what the non-voters believe/care/think, and I shall be able to write my opinion on the paper, the only time I remember being asked about commissioners.
Only a politician would think adding politics to policing would make it better. Everyone else thinks politicians are liars, thieves and twats

mercibucket Thu 08-Nov-12 18:55:20

I am also spoiling mine. This means I am an active citizen, as noone gives a toss what the non-voters believe/care/think, and I shall be able to write my opinion on the paper, the only time I remember being asked about commissioners.
Only a politician would think adding politics to policing would make it better. Everyone else thinks politicians are liars, thieves and twats

nametakenagain Thu 08-Nov-12 18:59:31

Just cos the current system isn't perfect, doesn't mean that this is the right course of action, cogito

lljkk Thu 08-Nov-12 19:01:30

I have voted but I do think it's a waste of money & time. DC off school for the election, too. hmm

yogabird Thu 08-Nov-12 19:02:20

wasn't sure at all about this but used the link - thanks LtEveDallas and now feel ready to decide and take part. You can't not vote or spoil and then moan about who the others have chosen smile

OddBoots Thu 08-Nov-12 19:03:27

I completely disagree with this election but as we have a 'British Freedom' (AKA EDL) candidate I will be voting as apathy could let him in and he is really not the kind of man I would want heading our police.

RedToothbrush Thu 08-Nov-12 19:32:37

We were unaware there was an election coming up. Ballot papers and publicity were so late, its meant my DH is now disenfranchised as he is out of the country for a month and won't be able to make alternative agreements to vote.

I would probably either vote for an good independent candidate or spoil my ballot.

Some of the none Lab/Lib/Con candidates are truly dreadful. One for Merseyside makes my blood boil by saying:
"Police will be recruited on merit alone and the St George’s Flag will be flown above police stations at all times."
followed the wonderful
"50% of my salary will be given to the Hillsborough Justice Campaign."

I'm not sure if its worse to have candidates of that calibre or the ones where there are just two mainstream candidates with having the wonderfully descriptive manifesto of "I will oppose all the other party's policies".

Total fiasco, and it'll do nothing to achieve the goal of making the police accountable for anything at all. If you want that keep parties out of it completely and actually force them to have some policies rather than relying on football supporter voter mentality.

trice Thu 08-Nov-12 19:33:31

I object to mixing policing and politics. I have spoiled.

Politicians are too keen on the quick fix.

DameFanny Thu 08-Nov-12 19:36:46

I've already voted by post - for the local candidate who's on the record stating they think its a huge waste of time and money - so at least they won't be milking it for expenses

mercibucket Thu 08-Nov-12 19:37:08

The extremist thing is precisely the danger of this kind of stupid policy with zero publicity for candidates. It also reminds me of the time I was given a questionnaire and asked to prioritise about 15 policing targets, ranging from anti-terrorism to vandalism. Why would my uninformed opinion be useful in any way? I would rather an actual trained police officer made an informed decision, thank you. But I'd rather decide than some fourth rate politician

serengetty Thu 08-Nov-12 19:43:31

I worked with our candidate. Rude, entitled, homophobic, disorganised, useless are the words that come to mind. Wont be voting.

PrincessSymbian Thu 08-Nov-12 19:58:17

If everyone thinks that politicians are liars, thieves and twats, then why are we all not doing something about it!
If that is the kind of person our current political system attracts, then surely we should be working to change it, non?

iseenodust Thu 08-Nov-12 20:39:34

The reason you haven't seen many leaflets is because in a general election central money funds a posted leaflet for each candidate. This is an expense too far for these elections so if you get a leaflet either the candidate or their party has put their hand in their pocket - which you could perceive as tough on the independents (especially given the size of the areas covered).

If all politicians are **s then vote for an independent. There are a lot of them standing:

info on candidates in all areas

This is coming and the best way to influence it is to vote - this time it will just take a little more research. If you have a really strong view apply to be an independent member of the police and crime panel in your area - they will scrutinise the comissioner's performance.

NotDrowning Thu 08-Nov-12 20:39:51

Useful thread! I have now read up about local candidates and had a think about who to vote for. Excluding all those who mentioned 'bobbies on the beat' made that a little easier.

Jinsei Thu 08-Nov-12 20:43:35

Oh shit! Forgot to vote! What an idiot! angry

iseenodust Thu 08-Nov-12 20:46:53

Jinsei voting is next Thurs.

ISpyPlumPie Thu 08-Nov-12 21:05:09

Thanks for the link LtEveDallas. Will be voting for the only candidate who mentions DV/child exploitation as a priority. The others seem a bit hang 'em and flog 'em. Am I right in thinking that even though there's an option to choose a second preference, your paper is still counted if you only vote for one candidate?

WynkenBlynkenandNod Thu 08-Nov-12 21:08:37

Very useful thread. I didn't have a clue who our candidates were but have had a read. There is a big thing going on between the local Tory and Independent Candidate over an alleged CCJ and a history of companies liquidated leaving debt.The Independent has just reported him to the police as he believes the Tory guy misled the public, breached election law and apparently Conservative HQ were advised of this 4 months ago.

jollydiane Thu 08-Nov-12 21:18:07

You have a duty to vote, if you have ever lived in a country where politics has failed the community you'd feel differently. Make the effort read through the leaflets. A vote is a preference to the way you want policing to go not an agreement to very policy they have. If you spoil you paper that makes no difference to the outcome.

I will take my DC along with me and explain what I am doing and why.

Jinsei Thu 08-Nov-12 21:21:25

Next Thursday? Phew, not too late then. grin

I

AmberLeaf Thu 08-Nov-12 21:25:03

I heard about this only today, I havent got a poll card though?

How is this meant to work?

I am definitely registered on the electoral roll at this address.

mercibucket Thu 08-Nov-12 21:26:25

If you put yourself forward for anything in politics you now open up your entire family to crappy invasion of privacy by partisan media. Why would any 'normal' person choose to do that? There is no reason at all for party politics to becxome part of policing. It was not asked for by the electorate. We do not have a 'duty' to vote for something so stupid. We have a duty not to vote for it imo, so that is why I shall be spoiling my paper.

AmberLeaf Thu 08-Nov-12 21:26:27

There are no elections here

There are no elections for police and crime commissioners taking place in the area you have specified. The London Mayor is the police and crime commissioner for London. The Mayoral elections that were held earlier this year determined the police and crime commissioner for the London area

Ah, that explains it then.

We did receive a leaflet from the Tory candidate, but no-one else.

mercibucket Thu 08-Nov-12 21:29:47

If there is no money for a leaflet, there is no money for an extra level of crappy snout in trough politicians either. Let's save a few pennies and abolish them after this electoral disaster in the making

jollydiane Thu 08-Nov-12 21:31:12

Mecil - the fact is someone is going to be elected and has influence over your policing. By all means lobby your MP for such a decision to be reversed but the fact of the matter is someone will be elected. I want to be engaged and help to decide who that someone is. If you all spoil you papers and I am the only one that decided your policing and that cannot be right.

annekins Thu 08-Nov-12 21:41:46

I sort of object to it being politicised as many of the things the police are involved with should be beyond politics and outside of a political agenda. Around here, that leaves me with one option so I guess that will be by choice.

If you don't vote, you don't get to complain about the result.

mercibucket Thu 08-Nov-12 21:41:47

What will happen is 90 percent won't vote at all. What kind of democratic process is that? Can democracy operate in an online only environment? I wonder. My vote is for no party politics in policing. Sadly I was never asked that question. Notice we all told the govt to eff off with their elected mayor idea when asked.

ICantFindAFreeNickName Thu 08-Nov-12 21:44:18

How are the people who don't have internet access supposed to decide who to vote for? I know most homes now have internet access but there must still be a large number of people, mainly elderly (I guess) who will not know who to vote for.

jollydiane Thu 08-Nov-12 21:48:12

I agree that we shouldn't be put in the position, but we are. If 90% don't vote then the 10% that did vote (i.e. the jolly family) decide on your behalf. We should ask our MP's why they decided to do this, challenge them etc but for now, do your research and vote. It is in our local paper (which is free).

larks35 Thu 08-Nov-12 22:29:20

What annoys me about this is that my polling card arrived before I knew anything about this new role. Since it came I looked online and have found out about the role and the candidates in my area, I can't imagine that many others have done this, even if they have the tools to do so.

Where have the public adverts been shown? I watch a bit of TV and haven't seen anything about this. Why haven't I had information sent to me from candidates and about the role in general?

Democracy only works if people are given the information they need to make an informed decision on who they believe will be best in that role. This whole PCC thing seems to be ill-conceived and badly pubicised. Why has it come about?

DanFmDorking Thu 08-Nov-12 23:13:39

I’m going to be working at ‘the count’ on Friday.

May I ask, when you spoil your vote, please write it in green ink as it gives us something to laugh about when we pass it round.

mercibucket Fri 09-Nov-12 06:56:35

I like the tip, Dan, I shall try to amuse smile

Bramshott Fri 09-Nov-12 08:56:59

Dan - I was told at school that all candidates have to be shown all the spoiled ballots - is that true?

Acumens100 Fri 09-Nov-12 08:59:45

I've spoiled mine already (postal vote).

The Labour bloke will get in, but I really wish there was a None option.

gloomywinters2 Fri 09-Nov-12 09:52:45

all i know is i get a leaflet shoved through my door and i don,t no anything about it do they think the public are that stupied that were going to vote somthing we don,t no about. from what i understand we have to vote someone to decide about matters of the police the question is should one man get all that power.

I'm not voting and neither is DH. This is in itself a decision. Neither of us thinks their should be elections as it cannot be anything but a politicisation of policing. Therefore we are not going to participate. Even spoiling my paper feels like I'd be agreeing to the process in some way that I'm not comfortable with (and then there's the fact that they tend to interpret this as stupidity or confusion rather than refusal, which infuriates me).

I'm writing an email to my MP (and ccing in the home office) just to make it clear that it's not laziness or fecklessness on my part; I am refusing to vote in an election that I don't agree with. If enough people do that, then it'll be difficult to interpret the low turnout as apathy. It should be clear that people have made a well considered choice not to participate. Therefore the candidate elected by a small minority of the population will have a pretty shoddy mandate.

I don't believe that I have a duty to vote either. I refuse to lend legitimacy to this process. And it isn't just about party politics; I do not believe that we should elect police commissioners.

sparklingwine Fri 09-Nov-12 10:20:59

Im going to vote- not for the independent person though, as apparently they are a mason, and being finacially backed by other masons.
I can't see how being a member of a secret society is a good thing for the person I/c the police.

DanFmDorking Fri 09-Nov-12 10:59:23

Bramshott - Yes, so that they can all see and agree that that particular vote is spoilt.

EscapeInTheCity Fri 09-Nov-12 11:00:04

Here we have received the postal vote but not ONE leaflet for any candidate!

I was shock to see that the 'candidate' were affiliated to political party tbh. No member within the Police should be chosen according to his political views ever.

So we have no idea who the candidates are, no idea what they propose to do, so I am assuming we are suppose to choose them according to their political views .... which have nothing to do what so ever with running the Police in a efficient manner.

Unless... they expect these people to then take decisions according to their beliefs, not to the law and chose to put resources where they think it's better. Let's say to tackle youth crimes because don't you know that all teenagers are awful and not support DV issues because family is our strongest assets, single women with dcs are just benefit grabbing people....

The issue with not voting or spoiling the vote is that it will not change a thing to the result of the vote.
So better imo to vote to try and have 'the least bad' of all. No idea how I am going to do that as we have no information about any of them here.

<<Mind boggles as how this is an appropriate way to run a democraty though>>

Quenelle Fri 09-Nov-12 11:24:14

We've had no leaflets either. I disagree with the involvement of party politics in running the police so I'm afraid I was feeling quite apathetic about the whole thing.

But now I've looked at the candidates I will definitely be voting, if only to keep one particular charmer from the British Freedom Party/English Defence League out.

nortonmumoftwo Fri 09-Nov-12 11:47:08

I agree - what a lot of poppycock.

I'm ex-police and hear that this new commisioner will be paid £50,000, have their own office at hq portished, have a PA paid £22,000 plus expenses like using their own car to travel around the region, to attend meetings.

So, the police have had budget cuts imposed but can still afford £72,000 per annum? All proves the point they can find the money if they really want to!

have listened to the interviews by the candidates and they all want the same thing - i.e more visible policing, cut down asb, repeat offender targetting, etc, - the police do this already - or should be doing it. The only difference between them all is that one of the candidates is a woman.

I've written to David Laws MP to express my concern over wastage of tax payers money. I've yet to recieve a reply.

Splinters Fri 09-Nov-12 12:08:18

I hate the fact that this is party political. The Labour candidate is the only one to have bothered trying to get in touch, and his policies look ok, but along the top of his flyer is some absolute rubbish about this being our opportunity to pass judgement on a crap coalition government. That is emphatically not what this is about, and I can't vote for a candidate who thinks it is. Aside from the party candidates there are two most unconvincing independents, so I shall be sharpening my red pencil and spoiling my ballot.

laughtergoodmedicine Fri 09-Nov-12 12:11:29

We have one retired tv presenter standing and 2 party people. I dont support the Coalition on very much. But I will vote next Thursday because Chief Constables have played God all my life. And it needs shaking up.

Peanutbutterfingers Fri 09-Nov-12 12:22:36

One of the reasons we haven't heard much about it is funding. Normally in e,ections royal mail do 1 free postage to every household from candidates. In my PCC area there are nearly 3m people. How can a candidate with no funding get round to all those? Even if they do 3 public meetings a day with 30 people in attendance (which candidates have been doing here) they're only going to speak to about 1,000 people. Doesn't even make a dent.

Normally activists would be campaigning. But they are not motivated as no-one wants these elections or this post.

In the past I have advocated spoiling papers. I think if you don't vote you don't get a say, but should be able to make the point that you're participating, that you care.

In this case with turnout being so low it does risk far right parties getting in. Remember it's not normal voting system and funny things can start happening when you get to counting 2nd choices

Not an easy choice

Splinters Fri 09-Nov-12 12:34:26

UKIP is the furthest right standing here -- obviously not ideal but I think I'll take the risk on this occasion, and learn my lesson if he does get in. If there was a BNP candidate I might think differently.

matana Fri 09-Nov-12 13:42:42

This was an ill conceived idea that has been rushed through with little thought to the consequences. And that's from someone who, on November 15, will effectively be voting for my new boss.

Policing has its issues, but was never so broken it couldn't be fixed. The candidates here are, all but one, pledging to put more officers on the beat. That simply can't happen and it's a pledge they will not be able to fulfil without raising council tax significantly (which legislation actually protects against). Do they seriously think that chief constables and police authorities have not already been working creatively in the past three years (since the government's spending review) to do just that - cut back office staff to protect the number of officers on our streets?

I'm all for democracy, but the membership of the current police authority includes councillors members (elected by the public) and independents (apolitical, recruited from their communities). You don't get much more democratic than that. It also safeguards against a maverick individual bulldozing through completely inappropriate policies.

I am now faced with the prospect of resigning on the principle that i do not wish to work for a politician. Unless one of the independents in this area are elected of course....

iseenodust Fri 09-Nov-12 14:19:33

There was an item on the lunchtime BBC news about these elections today. Then the local news had Tony Blair spouting support for John Prescott. So maybe expect to see more media coverage from now?

mykidskeepmegoing Fri 09-Nov-12 14:19:46

I don't know who the candidates are and the first i new of these elections is when ballot thing was posted through my letter box.

matana Fri 09-Nov-12 14:38:23

For all those saying they don't know who their candidates are:

www.choosemypcc.org.uk

Erebus Fri 09-Nov-12 14:47:21

Once again, it's a 'be careful what you wish for' situation- except I can't recall wishing for elected police commissioners! What I mean is this odd idea that we all want red, raw 'democracy' in all things. ( Do you call California's foray into this? where The People were given the direct vote about whether public taxes should be raised to pay for increased municipal services? The People voted 'No' then suddenly the bins stopped being emptied. Democracy in action.)

I don't want a publicly elected police commissioner because, although I consider myself to be a reasonably engaged, well-educated and committed public spirited person who always votes and tries to take an interest in such matters, the reality is I have no idea what qualities make a good Police Commissioners! I do not have the skills necessary to make this 'decision' and do not pretend to.

In the same way I don't want parent-lead schools or patient-lead hospitals. Self-interest ahoy! I want these things to be lead by properly trained, as apolitical as possible grown-ups with an accountant's heart and a vicar's sense of public duty. Not the bloke with the most populist sound-bite.

matana Fri 09-Nov-12 15:01:00

My sister made a good point: "this isn't truly democratic anyway because nobody asked me whether i wanted the change in the first place, let alone what that change would look like..." I'm pretty certain the Conservative element of the Coalition weren't elected for their manifesto commitment to police and crime commissioners. And they certainly haven't listened to the numerous opinions telling them quite vocally that this isn't what people want.

avivabeaver Fri 09-Nov-12 15:16:40

i was not going to vote

then i discovered that one of the candidates here is co-founder of EDL, so now i have to go and vote to cancel out at least one of the feckers who will vote for him.

Cartoonjane Fri 09-Nov-12 15:58:14

I think lots of people are going to spoil for this election. I know a few who have done so already with their postal vote. It would be great if there was a significant number of spoilers in my view.

nepkoztarsasag Sat 10-Nov-12 01:50:30

The whole idea is Tory drivel and I am not going to vote - if you oppose the idea, you should abstain rather than spoil because this will be killed by low turnout.

If directly elected local commissioners are a good idea, why stop at policing?

Why not a locally elected tax commissioner to determine the top rate of income tax?

Why not a locally elected schools commissioner to decide how schools should be run?

Because they might come up with the wrong answer....

piprabbit Sat 10-Nov-12 01:58:33

Thanks for posting the links to the website about candidates.
I've had a look and will be voting for one of the independent candidates, who sounds like a very capable and sensible woman.

Tigerbomb Sat 10-Nov-12 02:52:35

I don't wish to vote for any of the candidates in my area.

I would like a "None of the above" option

NadiaWadia Sat 10-Nov-12 04:24:07

We had the polling cards a few weeks ago. But no leaflets from candidates, no information whatsoever. I thought there was a booklet thing you were supposed to get explaining the process?

Bilbobagginstummy Sat 10-Nov-12 05:46:27

I am another who was shocked that the candidates are standing with a party political label. I do not want (even more) politicisation of the system.

The independents here are not credible and there is no way I'm voting for a party politician so I will not be voting.

Solopower1 Sat 10-Nov-12 11:40:29

Another thing that is disturbing about this is that the people most likely to vote, ie older people, often can't access information online, and the helpline doesn't help.

www.pressdisplay.com/pressdisplay/viewer.aspx

Solopower1 Sat 10-Nov-12 11:41:01

And the amount of time and money this is costing someone ...

alreadytaken Sat 10-Nov-12 12:15:51

Have only recently realised that the voting system being adopted means I have to find TWO choices - even less publicity given to that than to the candidates.

OverlyWordyHurdyGurdy Sat 10-Nov-12 12:24:05

The local UKIP candidate's surname is Shatwell.

Says it all, really.

gallicgirl Sat 10-Nov-12 12:32:12

I was going to spoil my ballot until I saw there's an EDL candidate so now I have to vote.

MegTheCat Sat 10-Nov-12 12:42:31

This was a really useful discussion - I was going to spoil my ballot paper or not bother but have now researched the local candidates - Thanks for the link LtEveDallas- I plan to vote for the ones seem like they have appropriate experience and views to do a good job and also think the elections are a rubbish idea and the post shouldn't be political. Even some of the ones affiliated to political parties make that point.
One of the candidates made the following comment about leafleting: The fact is that the cost of leafleting 2.6 million people would cost a minimum of £72,000 just to print them, and the cost of delivery many times that. To raise money to send leaflets would involve me taking money from wealthy business people or vested interests, and I’m not prepared to do that. They are covering much bigger areas then your normal elections so makes sense.

RuleBritannia Sat 10-Nov-12 17:38:57

Yes, thank you, LtEveDallas for the link. At last, I've discovered who all my candidates are (Thames Valley). So far we've had only one single page newspaper from the Conservative candidate and no one else but the write ups on the Internet about each one's past is very useful and I now have a choice of UKIP or Independent.

DanFmDorking Sat 10-Nov-12 18:01:08

Bad officials are elected by good citizens who do not vote.

Donki Sat 10-Nov-12 18:17:28

I am spoiling my ballot.

I cannot for the life of me see how a single elected Police Commissioner for the police force over a wide area (depending on the force) can possibly be more democratic than the police authority.

The Police Authority was made up of a majority (9/17) of elected councillors (so accountable to the electorate) who can represent the different areas for which the police force is responsible. i.e. both rural and urban areas have a voice (for example).

In addtion the remaining 8 members of the authority are independents co-opted by the authority from the communities it serve for their knowledge of both policing and the communities served.

The Police Authority wasn't a perfect system, but looking at the States, I think a single elected political commissioner is a much worse option.

1) I wish to make my opinion known (and yes, I will write to my MP)
2) I do not wish to lend legitimacy to such a deeply flawed process.

Solopower1 Sun 11-Nov-12 18:26:51

Since we have to do this, it makes sense to elect someone who is going to make sure that all meetings and dealings with lobbyists and private contrators will be published. At the moment the successful Labour candidates have promised to do this; imo it's important for all the candidates to do it too.

www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/nov/09/yvette-cooper-labour-police-chiefs

stillsmarting Tue 13-Nov-12 12:57:04

Tempting thought. Our Labour Candidate has been told he can't stand because of a 22 year old conviction, but his name will probably still be on the ballot paper. Might vote for him anyway.

DanFmDorking Wed 14-Nov-12 14:38:36

How to vote in the PCC elections

Polling stations are open from 7am until 10pm on Thurs 15 November.

1. In the three force areas where just two candidates are standing - (Dyfed-Powys, North Yorkshire and Staffordshire) - you will have the familiar "first past the post" ballot paper.
You are expected to vote for just one PCC candidate.

2. In all the other force areas, where there are more than two candidates, the PCC elections are held under a system called the supplementary vote.
You will be given a ballot paper with two columns.

2.1 In the left column, voters choose their first preference for PCC;
in the right, voters choose their second preference.

2.2 Voters can choose to mark just one preference, using the left column only.

Please vote.

Extrospektiv Thu 15-Nov-12 12:50:16

nice to see Labour electoral fraud, anti-UKIP extremism, tory bashing and the usual leftist drivel.

and someone doesn't understand subsidiarity.

laughtergoodmedicine Thu 15-Nov-12 13:42:15

Local BBC radio, local papers and national papers covered these elections. You probably wont get the knock on the door. The areas covered can be enormous. It will be a low poll; but councillors get elected on small turn out consistently. Voting is either like us Voluntary; or like the Aussies compulsory. Thats the big question.

stillsmarting Thu 15-Nov-12 16:56:55

Should be a good turnout round here, because we have a by-election, a town council election and the Police Commissioner election. Can we stand this much excitement in one day?

Welovecouscous Thu 15-Nov-12 18:29:30

Still spoiling mine!

Solopower1 Fri 16-Nov-12 07:18:26

Police Commissioner elected in Wiltshire on 7% of vote (15% turnout, according to the BBC). How democratic is that?

What is the point? The only thing I can think of is that the govt (again) just wants to slough off responsibility for everything and anything that can go wrong. So they massively cut the police force and then when crime starts to rise again, they will try to wash their hands of the consequences by pretending that it's our fault because we have elected the wrong Commissioner.

CogitoErgoSometimes Fri 16-Nov-12 08:29:16

I don't agree with the assessment that it's sloughing off responsibility. The Police Commisioner replaces the largely anonymous and appointed Police Authority.... anyone know who theirs was? Why should someone parachuted in by Westminster be managing matters in Durham or Carlisle? As for the low turn-out, I suspect that once the new commissioners are in place & making themselves visible we will have much stronger views about who is suitable for the job next time around.

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