Ed Miliband's conference speech live stream

(142 Posts)
FrancesMumsnet (MNHQ) Tue 02-Oct-12 14:35:48

Live stream of Ed Miliband's speech here if you're interested: Get Adobe Flash player

I can't use flash player because I'm on my phone, but I was listening to it. I thought the wee bit I heard sounded stilted and stale. We KNOW about his family background - he tells us every year. Look forward, Ed - not back. I also don't like his voice, which I know is unreasonable. He can't help it. I turned it off because it sounded like it was going to be same old, same old.

TheBlackShiksa Tue 02-Oct-12 15:11:15

Gah just a longer version of thought for the day...

Pagwatch Tue 02-Oct-12 15:31:14

He kept saying One Nation
I kept hearing 'under a groove'...

I wish he wouldn't try and pretend he is an ordinary kid who just rocked up to the local comp. and talking about himself at school makes it hard to ignore the fact that he sounds about 15.

Where did my Labour party go? [sigh]

LittleFrieda Tue 02-Oct-12 15:39:55

Who is Ed Miliband?

claig Tue 02-Oct-12 15:48:06

I like Ed Miliband but I thought it was not very good. It is not his fault, it was obviously scripted for him by a teenage progressive scribbler who has cut his teeth on Guardian editorials. The teenage scribbler came up with one notion, "one nation", and they were determined to crowbar it in at every opportunity. Ed did his best to deliver it, as the brains of the Shadow Cabinet would have wanted, but it is just hot air, a plastic balloon. It won't cut it, the public are not as stupid as the teenage scribbler, his henchmen and hoodies think, they won't fall for this slap on the back, self-satisfied divide and rule.

Ed is very good in one-to-one interviews where he comes up with his own answers. They should put the teenage scribbler back in his box and let Ed draft his own speeches. One nation smacks of teenage desperation.

claig Tue 02-Oct-12 15:55:12

The public is suffering under the greatest authority since the 1930s and all the teenage scribbler can offer is platitudes about "one nation". If teh progressives can't up their game, it's over and the Coalition will be voted in again even though they are becoming more and more unpopular.

I can't wait for Gove's speech at the Tory conference. I'd bet my back teeth that that will be a cracker and no teenager will have been asked for advice.

claig Tue 02-Oct-12 15:57:44

austerity not authority

Mono1 Tue 02-Oct-12 16:17:41

I missed the speech but when my 2.2yr old saw Ed Miliband on tv on Sunday morning he turned to me and said "man open his mouth and shut his mouth Mummy". I thought he was dead right.

Adversecamber Tue 02-Oct-12 16:20:57

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Adversecamber Tue 02-Oct-12 16:23:20

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Adversecamber Tue 02-Oct-12 16:24:24

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claig Tue 02-Oct-12 16:36:02

What is worrying about this is that it obviously took months of planning, the finest minds toiled late into the night on this, philosophers and teenage scribblers were asked for their views and it must have been rehearsed for hours on end, and there was nobody who spotted that the emperor had no clothes, that the scribbler who penned 'one nation', has no notion.

No wonder they haven't come up with any firmer policies yet, or maybe this is al there is. One nation doesn't deserve an ovation. Now "one planet" and a polar bear with a melting glacier mint, that would get the public moving.

somebloke123 Tue 02-Oct-12 16:48:14

According to the Guido Fawkes Site sections of the speech were lifted verbatim from former speeches so maybe not all that amount of work did go into it.

None of us has any control over the parents to whom we were born and we shouldn't hold it against hime that his dad was an eminent professor of Advanced Bollocks Studies at the LSE but he shouldn't make himself out to be just a regular comprehensive pupil.

breadandbutterfly Tue 02-Oct-12 16:53:55

Have only read summaries of speech, but couldn't care less if it's delivered in Serbo Coat or a whisper - more interested in the content and liked the commitment to restore the NHS - if that's definite, then that gets my vote.

Not sure about ref to new qual for non-academic teens - might be good, depends on details.

Rest sounded bit short on detail but then you can't expect much at this stage.

Doing it all with no notes is impressive. Newspaper 'reviews' I've read sound like it went well.

breadandbutterfly Tue 02-Oct-12 16:55:28

I think it is relevant he went to a comp, actually - he is often tarred with same brush as Cameron and Clegg as toff who's out of touch. The fact he went to a comp means he does know how ordinary people live - Cameron clearly has just no idea.

claig Tue 02-Oct-12 17:01:08

Yes, I like the fact that he went to a comp, but his spinners musn't overdo it, they have to drop it in subtly, not ruin it by driving it in with a sledgehammer. I also like the fact that he comes from a real leftwing family, he is not just a public school parvenu who dons a Labour mantle. And the fact that he comes from an immigrant background and now leads Labour shows that there is social mobility, but that was also true of Major and Thatcher.

TalkinPeace2 Tue 02-Oct-12 17:10:24

But then again he has Ed "Who said that about me?" Balls on his team. FAIL.

TakingBackMonday Tue 02-Oct-12 17:13:25

Oxford, Harvard, millionaire. Yeah, one of the people.

There is no opposition.

DevaDiva Tue 02-Oct-12 17:13:50

I listened to it all hmm found it pretty dull tbh.

Didn't learn anything new or find out about new inspiring policies.

Found it either bland a bit patronising, don't think Red Ed is going to do it for Labour.

Pagwatch Tue 02-Oct-12 17:21:38

I suspect that my experience of a local comp and Ed millibands experience are pretty far apart.

I would weigh his education far more heavily if it wasn't presented as proof that he is just a regular guy.
That is the most awful guff and I am staggered if there is anyone other than those who desperately wish to, that see it as meaning anything other than that his parents were lefty academics.

He should step off the 'awful posho people are the problem'

Pretending that you should dislike Cameron for his schooling rather than his policies is patronising and infantile.

Seriously. A Labour opposition. please

HoneyMum21 Tue 02-Oct-12 17:25:43

well, the bits i've seen suggest to me he didn't come across as badly as usual. It's not saying much, but hey, it's something! Still wouldn't vote for any of them.

UnrequitedSkink Tue 02-Oct-12 17:26:50

I quite like him and still came away feeling uninspired. He's not a bad orator (now) and it's very impressive that he managed to do the whole thing without notes or fluffing it, but the content was mostly just rehashed same old same old. Shame really, it could have been brilliant.

CogitoErgoSometimes Tue 02-Oct-12 17:28:55

I hate the inverse snobbery being invoked. All this 'my dad was poorer than your dad' crap is utterly fake. Why would anyone strive for success in a Milliband-led society if all it will get them is open resentment & accusations of being out of touch? Lowest common denominator... no thanks.

Mirage Tue 02-Oct-12 17:34:52

I'll bet my bottom dollar that Ed Milliband didn't go to the same kind of sink comp that I and my contemporaries attended.He grew up amongst the left wing academic intelligensia and no amount of 'I'm just like you,really I am' is going to cut it with me.His upbringing and the upbringing of the vast majority of people in this country have nothing in common. I'm the last person to hold someone's background against them and snobbery,reverse or otherwise is my bugbear,but do not pretend to be something you aren't to try and win votes.We aren't stupid.hmm

homebythesea Tue 02-Oct-12 17:43:33

The vast majority of what he said could have been said by any other politico without amendment- no one is going to say we don't want a good NHS or we want crap schools....the constant repetition was tedious after a while but he did look like he might have a sense of humour in there somewhere.

But overall it looks like he needs to go back to the Sixth firm debating Soc with Nick Clegg grin

Justine looked nice <went to Uni with her emoticon>

birdofthenorth Tue 02-Oct-12 18:14:42

I was pleasantly surprised. He is not famed for being an engaging communicator but I was really glued to tday's speech, so much so I made myself let for the nursery run! I think we needed to know more about him and we got that; we needed to feel he was on our side and we got that too. Yes, maybe we needed more concrete policy -although I'd rather they get it right form2015 than get some cheap quick wins in for every party conference, local elections, etc.

birdofthenorth Tue 02-Oct-12 18:16:18

PS don't buy that it was ad libbed in places, but blinking heck he's got a good memory. Must have taken aaaaaages to learn all that -he should enjoy having that much time on his hands before he's running the government!!

mumzy Tue 02-Oct-12 18:20:18

The problem with Ed Milliband is he is so disingenious. I don't buy his "I went to a comp and as a result are with the people" speech. His school was in Hampstead and his dad was a socialist millionaire. Also the fact that he and his brother tried to avoid inheritance tax through some dodgy loophole and went to Oxford with less than impressive A level grades shows he is one of the elite and his family had enough links with people in high places.
Both my parents are immigrants Both dh and I went to bog standard comps and through hard work went to university and are now both professionals. We have chosen to send ds1 to public school for secondary because of the mess labour left the state education system. Ed Milliband and Labour will not be getting my vote.

ElBurroSinNombre Tue 02-Oct-12 18:42:24

Really lacked content - just repeating the mantra 'one nation' is no substitute for policies. In addition, the opening of the speech was full of sickening sentimentality - the bit about his son was particularly cringeworthy.
As if he should be elected just because he went to a comp - is that really any different to Cameron thinking he was 'born to rule'?

LittleBearPad Tue 02-Oct-12 18:44:35

Ed Milliband lives in a massive house near Hampstead Heath as well - it would definitely have cost seven figures. I'm not that sure he does know how real people live and the fact that he has spent all his life in politics or academia doesn't help.

Alurkatsoftplay Tue 02-Oct-12 18:47:24

Agree with mumzy- why on earth he is pulling the "I went to a comp" card?
1. It's irrelevant
2. He's the son of a professor - hardly " one of us"
3. He's like all those new labour twats who will spend a million on a house in a good catchment area just so they can say " oh we would never send our child to private school"
I actually liked the fella before all this.

chipstick10 Tue 02-Oct-12 18:56:46

Obviously i would never be writing a speech but i can tell you now, if i was i cannot imagine my then three year old son saying "you cant do this on your own mummy" confused. Dont get me wrong my son is very bright, but really!!!!!! Really?. Those words dont sound like the words of a three year old. I was cringing.

PuffPants Tue 02-Oct-12 19:02:33

He reminds me of Will from The Inbetweeners. I can just imagine him turning up with a briefcase on his first day at Ridge Park Comp.

I find flogging the comp education very disingenuous. Lots of people are state educated and still turn out to be heartless capitalists - I don't see it automatically makes you a socialist hero.

mumzy Tue 02-Oct-12 19:16:13

Now if any of these politicians eg. Clegg, Cameron, Osbourne, Gove, Balls, Milliband sent their dc to my local tough inner city comp with 48% fsm then I would feel they are with the people and admire them for it. But sending them to highly selective state schools such as The Oratory, the grammars or where the catchment houses cost at least £1M, which most people have no hope of getting heir dc into is totally disingenuous IMO

LittleFrieda Tue 02-Oct-12 19:17:15

Ed Miliband is just another one of the elites. He's just a different sort of elite to David Cameron. They are all elites, standing for much the same thing. Its all so confusing now. One Nation Tories. One Nation Labour. Red Tory. Blue Labour.

MerylStrop Tue 02-Oct-12 19:20:39

Ever so bloody long wasn't it

I got a bit bored

I hated the dinosaurs bit

MerylStrop Tue 02-Oct-12 19:22:13

I'm going with the theory that labour don't want to win the next election

I think he's quite refreshing in his own way

At least he isn't son of Blair (and ergo grandson of Thatcher)

breadandbutterfly Tue 02-Oct-12 19:25:07

Oh come on, some people on here woudn't be happy no matter where he went to school. As for the poster who thought him getting into Oxford implied some sort of 'friends in high places', that's nonsense - he's about my age, and when I went to Oxford, 2Es was the standard offer - so anyone could get in ith less than stellar A Levels - no string-pulling required. hmm

I don#t see why it is regarded as OK to blame for the guy for having a dad who was an academic - his dad didn't get that by connections, he arrived as an immigrant and presumably got it on merit - not Ed's 'fault' his dad was bright and hard-working and I cannot see why this is supposed to put voters off him?

Alurkatsoftplay Tue 02-Oct-12 19:35:32

No one is blaming the guy for having a brilliant internationally renowned father. It just makes his claim to be mr regular a bit hard to swallow.

mumzy Tue 02-Oct-12 19:43:29

He is using his comp education, immigrant background to make out he has had to overcome obstacles whereas in fact his upbringing was pretty priviledged. He has little in common with people like me whose parents having arrived in the UK with 3 dc lived in grotty housing, worked in unskilled poorly paid jobs surviving hand to mouth and had no choice of which schools their kids went to. I would respect him more if he just said " I had a normal comfortable upbringing went to a decent school and this is what I wish for the people of the UK who currently don't have that" but this of course does not make headlines.

breadandbutterfly Tue 02-Oct-12 19:45:10

He's not claiming to be 'Mr Regular' whatever that means just claiming - truthfully - to have gone to a comp and mixed with ordinary kids not just super-rich kids. He does actually know how ordinary people live even if yes, his childhood was not ordinary

Far from claiming to be 'Mr Regular' he talks in the speech about having famous political figures round the kitchen table as a kid. Hard;y ordinary - he acknowledges this.

mumzy Tue 02-Oct-12 19:53:17

He does trott out the "comp school/ immigrant background tale" on an annual basis and it is wearing thin. He should concentrate on telling us what he is going to do for the out try instead

mumzy Tue 02-Oct-12 19:53:35

Country

EdgarAllanPond Tue 02-Oct-12 20:06:50

Labour chose the wrong Milliband.

Now they pay the price.

I don't know why they have chose the 'one nation' thing - an appeal to nationalism? Inclusion of the kingdoms (as if left to English constituencies alone, no labour government!)?

great way to remind the public that the Conservatives have given us Jewish, as well as female leaders by referencing Benjamin Disraeli.

this year The Big Society (a very woolly idea when it first arrived) seems to have gained some momentum and to be rather more zeitgeisty than it was two years ago. This 'One nation' thing seems to be Red Eds counter attack, yet as was the problem with 'Big society' at the offing-point - i really don't get what he means by it in concrete policy terms.

in actual fact he seemed to not be offering anything different to the Condems on key policy issues.

the one bit of the speech i thought hit home was the negative bit about the 'envelope back' nature of policy making by the incumbents - however it looks somewhat like Red Ed could apply the same criticism to his own presentation this time out.

diabolo Tue 02-Oct-12 20:08:47

He is as atypical of a "normal" person as any of the Conservatives. Don't be fooled by his "I'm one of you" bollocks - he's sat at home sneering at your average Asda Shopper along with the rest of them, probably more so given that lefty intellectual perch he sits on.

diabolo Tue 02-Oct-12 20:10:11

MNHQ - I didn't put a link in my post above, so I don't know why one is there confused

Davros Tue 02-Oct-12 20:10:19

Yeah, he went to the comp nearest to Primrose Hill. Mind you, it is quite a diverse place, N-Dubz and Oona King when there too I believe.

GeorginaWorsley Tue 02-Oct-12 20:11:26

Hate this school rubbish.
We should not discriminate against anyone because of race,religion etc but somehow which school someone went to is fair game.
Whatever you think of their policies Cameron,Osborne etc can't help their education.
Nor can Harriet Harman,Tony Blair,Ed Balls etc.[privately educated all)

FannyFifer Tue 02-Oct-12 20:12:17

One nation? Eh no, there are four separate nations which make up the UK.

claig Tue 02-Oct-12 20:16:26

I think teh 'one nation' thing is an attempt to appeal to Tory voters and get Daily Mail readers onside. He is saying that Labour is patriotic, there are Union Jacks everywhere, he is courting teh 'squeezed middle' and saying they have been treated unfairly. He is saying that employers should not undercut workers by paying immigrants below minimum wage. This is all good stuff as Labour hs been considered weak on some of these areas and some Tory voters have felt that Labour is not on the side of hardworking 'Middle England'.

He is saying that Labour and himself are not like Thrasher and those lot, and he has a point there.

But, crucially, this is not enough, to swing over Tory voters and teh 'squeezed middle'. He has to do much more and come up with more substantial policies to help teh 'squeezed middle'. The public knows that he is probably a nicer chap than Thrasher, but that is not enough to get its vote.

breadandbutterfly Tue 02-Oct-12 20:19:27

Funnily enough the Tory papers seemed to quite rate his speech - the Telegraph is quite complimentary.

claig Tue 02-Oct-12 20:23:52

Let's wait and see what the Mail says - that is the people's paper. I'm not sure which paper Thrasher prefers to read, but my guess is it is probably the Telegraph.

EdgarAllanPond Tue 02-Oct-12 20:25:37

for Pag

i should probably say that i would be unlikely to vote labour anyway, and it really wouldn't matter in the constituency i live in if i did.

Ed isn't courting me. But he's got a hard sell with that voice if he wants to bring back disgruntled Labour grass roots by trying to tell them he's just like them. He's got a harder sell still if he's actually going to support what the ConDems are doing whilst making noises against them at every point -

Where's the credibility?

What's his USP - why should people vote for him ?

claig Tue 02-Oct-12 20:30:22

A few faux pas by the Tories a few weeks before the election, leaked condescension towards the public and they will lose the election. The public does not like being insulted openly. Ed is a good man and Labour do have a greater affinity with the majority of the public, so if they court the 'squeezed middle' and if the Tories drop some clangers, then Labour could easily sweep back in.

claig Tue 02-Oct-12 20:34:29

Brown lost the election when he called a member of the public a bigoted woman. If teh Tories commit a similar faux pas and call the public plebs or anything similar, the public will turf them out on their ear and welcome Miliband in.

EdgarAllanPond Tue 02-Oct-12 20:36:53

i think there has been some sabotage - from within perhaps - certainly the Education department hasn't been watertight and you have to wonder why.

the amount of leakage and going-off-half-cocked has been really damaging to govt credibility. They need their house in order.

And they just can't afford to have the chief Whip not behaving himself.

Gordon Brown might have been a known bully, but that seemed to have been kept under wraps for a long time....it looks like all mistakes are getting air time.

claig Tue 02-Oct-12 20:44:50

Yes, I agree that Gove has had a tough time, but he is so good that he has risen way above it. There has been a downward slide ever since the threatened fuel strikes, with one mistake after another handing open goals to Labour.

Now Labour think that they only have to attract the 'squeezed middle', to sell the 'one nation' concept and claim that the Tories are for two nations, in order to roll back into power.

EdgarAllanPond Tue 02-Oct-12 20:50:48

claig i see the leakage from education as a weakness on the part of the minister - Gove needs to find out who's doing that and give them the boot.

He could also use coming up with some better ideas, rather than recycling old ones.

breadandbutterfly Tue 02-Oct-12 20:52:26

No, the Tories are the ones who are really from another planet.

I was at Oxford with George Osborne. Didn't know him or of him, even though he did my subject, in my year - he was a nothing - not a big fish at all.) While I was there, the student newspaper, Cherwell, always had a gossip column - written obviously by different student journos each term. Usually, it featured well-known figures likes student politicos or well-known thesps - but one term the journo writing it was (in retrospect, i wondered what the hell was going on at the time) a member of the Bullingdon Club. There was a whole term where the gossip column read like something out of Jeeves and Wooster - it was all Lord So-And_so and the Hon Such-and-Such have been very naughty boys and pulled their trousers down at Restaurant X, ha ha ha, oh it was such a scream and Biffy Throgmorton hit a porter! bla bla bla... shock

It made no sense at the time as - contrary to stereotype - Oxford is nothing like that at all and I never met a single Bullingdon type nor were their activities of the slightest interest to anyone outside their very small social circle.

Now wish i'd kept copies of the papers as the miscreants were all named and doubtless included one Hon George Osborne and several Tory Party donors - would make interesting reading now.

So no, they are nothing like normal people...

claig Tue 02-Oct-12 20:57:39

Edgar, Gove was new in the job, and it looks like he was leaked against early on. But, he is made of stern stuff. He is one of the Tory stars.

claig Tue 02-Oct-12 21:15:11

Not leaked against. I can't remember it exactly, but I think he may have been given information that turned out to be wrong early on.

breadandbutterfly Tue 02-Oct-12 21:31:16
aufaniae Tue 02-Oct-12 21:59:07

"I'll bet my bottom dollar that Ed Milliband didn't go to the same kind of sink comp that I and my contemporaries attended."

I went to Haverstock school, a few years later than the Milibands (I'm 37). And it was a pretty rubbish school IMO when I was there. I have fond memories of continually bunking off, smoking spliffs, mucking around. I was considered one of the good pupils as I was polite and bright. Very few of the teachers reported non-attendance (you knew which ones did!) It was a school in crisis with demoralised teachers IIRC.

It did have a good reputation, a few years before (which is how I ended up there) and I imagine it was much better when Miliband was there, before it went downhill. However, I don't imagine the make-up of the school changed much - when I started there it was still coasting on its previous reputation.

There was a genuines mix of races and classes. Sure there were middle class kids there, but equally the school is flanked by estates and there were loads of working class kids there too, it was a proper comprehensive.

I'm sad I missed the speech as I saw a clip of my old school playground on the advert for it, and I was looking forward to reminiscing smile

claig Tue 02-Oct-12 22:03:27

bread, you are right, the Mail gives the speech a good writeup, and teh best rated comments of readers all support Miliband, which is a bit surprising and does make you wonder if Labour conference attendees have been hitting the Mail's green arrows.

It shows how unpopular the Coalition is becoming.

TalkinPeace2 Tue 02-Oct-12 22:08:45

Or the speech was such a no hope that Daily Fail readers felt reassured

UdderlyBanal Tue 02-Oct-12 22:36:16

I really hate all this class war stuff. It's not OK to judge people on who their parents were and what school they went to. It's fine to say "my parents had their struggles and I learned ..." but to suggest that you are a better or worse person or politician because you went to a certain sort of school or university is bollocks. Milliband is absolutely not a man of the people. It's pathetic that he tries to be. Yes, he went to a state secondary but the state secondary my kids will go to is a hell of a lot better than the private school I had a scholarship to as a teenager. Mind you, it was streets ahead of my local comp so I am not complaining.

I mean, looking at other current and recent leaders:
Nick Clegg is from an immigrant family and married to a (brilliant and beautiful) foreigner
Michael Howard's family were immigrants
John Major had a crap education
Neil Kinnock was a bit thick but a lovely boyo (oops ;) )

Alibabaandthe40nappies Tue 02-Oct-12 22:53:41

Talkin I think you are spot on with that.

It is utterly ridiculous that we now have a situation where the political classes are arguing amongst themselves about who is the least privileged.

garlicbutty Tue 02-Oct-12 22:58:09

Oh, I'm too irate to read & reply properly.

Miliband sounded exactly like Cameron. I'm fairly certain he used some of the same phrases; the ones about having purpose, being true to himself & so on.
Clegg appears to be positioning his party as a handy leaning-post for whichever other party gets 1 more vote.
I noticed a throwaway line in the commentary: "80% of the cuts are still to come."
I don't think any of these lookalike numpties have enough balls to deal with the problems for their electorate's benefit.
I have lost the will to live.
sad

claig Tue 02-Oct-12 23:02:00

'I have lost the will to live.'

garlic, wait for next week. Gove has yet to speak, that might well be a game changer.

garlicbutty Tue 02-Oct-12 23:03:56

Gove???!!! Oh, claig, you do make me larf.

Still, he'd probably give us all a bible. We can burn them for warmth wink

whistlestopcafe Tue 02-Oct-12 23:06:55

I think I love Ed.

CommunistMoon Wed 03-Oct-12 00:33:02

I think I do, too.

Judder Wed 03-Oct-12 00:41:01

It was an amazing speech, which is good for everyone: strong opposition is healthy for the country.

The class stuff was a response, I guess, to that minister who called a policeman a 'pleb' and got away with it from Cameron. Outrageous!

Why shouldn't Mr Miliband be proud to go to his local inner London comp? It sends a message to children at state schools around the country that you do not have to go to a private school or a selective school to become a political leader, which they could be forgiven for thinking if Milliband had not stood up and said that.

jynier Wed 03-Oct-12 01:40:55

I watched Ed. Pathetic.

herhonesty Wed 03-Oct-12 07:11:06

For ed, a good speech. But as Cameron shows very well, a good speech does not make a good prime minister. Think support is symbolic of people getting rather fed up of Tory rhetoric and under performance. Whether that translates to support for labour is to early to say.

As for give, another politician the politicos love, but the gen public distrust him, so will be interesting to see how they play him next week.

mumzy Wed 03-Oct-12 07:22:51

Watched the whole thing through last night on the daily politics. He looked far too over rehearsed as if he was in a school play all the body language, relaxed jokey ennui seemed put on. Contrast this with Boris Johnson who really is a natural at this sort of thing and can instinctively connect with the general public.

Alibabaandthe40nappies Wed 03-Oct-12 07:39:59

Judder I think well off middle-class kids do ok in a comp, because they have other resources.
Teenagers from deprived backgrounds not so much, although there are obviously many exceptions.

And one good speech does not make strong opposition...

Pagwatch Wed 03-Oct-12 08:11:19

I think that if there are indeed children at state schools who imagine that you have to go to private school to make it as a politician then they probably have bigger issues to worry about. Possibly being a bit thick would be one.

The son of a fabulously wealthy man who was smoothed into Oxford and never intended to be anything other than a career politician trying to pretend he is just like me makes me want to weep.

The ridiculous emphasis on the schooling of forty something men in politics is such a waste of time.

At my comp we knew the posh kids, the rich kids were nothing like us. They were in a completely different world with their extra homework,piano lessons, weekend trips to France and skiing holidays.

Really. Stop it.

Not least because 'look, I am just like you. I am not one of Lord Snooty's pals' seemed to be the thrust of it. Look at Britain. Look at the holy fuck of a thing we are at the moment and 'ooo-er but just look at where they went to school' is all he has got.

The instinct to have a image to rail against is fine. I can understand the urge. But it is just sneering at something that to be honest neither he nor Cameron nor anyone else actually chose.
Is he actually saying, when you really drill it down, that if his parents with all their millions had chosen instead to send him to Eton then his moral compass, his compassion and empathy would never have existed?
Would he have been destined to be a cunt had he just gone into a different school.
Does he really want to tell kids in a slightly crappy school that they will never leave that behind. It always must define you.

I went to a comp. I'm lovely. My dh went to a very expensive private school. He is lovely too. Yet Dullard is trying to make us slice the nation into plucky state school kids nd selfish private school cunts.

It pisses me off massively. Lazy and thick.

Pagwatch Wed 03-Oct-12 08:23:52

If instead he had promised to indeed get down just for the funk of it, I would have been right there.

LittleFrieda Wed 03-Oct-12 09:01:09

Ed's speech wasn't so much about whether he's got what it takes to lead the country, but whether he can lead Labour. And I don't think he can. He's not appealing to anyone.

Shame as I thought he would be the more appealing Miliband and therefore more appealing, but he seems to have diminished not grown. Perhaps you get the wrong person when you allow the trades unions to choose.

mumzy Wed 03-Oct-12 09:41:11

I went to a bog standard comp in the inner cities and one of my classmates went on to become a major journalist on a news programme at the BBC. But her father was an emeritius professor at the university and her lifestyle and expectations were totally different from mine. I remember being coached for the Oxbridge entrance exam with her and she would quote the distinguish and often well known visitors who would frequent her parents soirees. I suspect Ed Millibrand's upbringing was like that of my famous classmate and bears little resemblance to the experience of the vast majority of people educated in comps.

mumzy Wed 03-Oct-12 09:46:01

And I bet Ed Millbrand never had to work grotty summer jobs in kitchens, factories, hotels as a student getting to know how the vast majority of the country survives, he probably spent all his time at Labour HQ. God I hate all politicians smug b*****ds

Fishwife1949 Wed 03-Oct-12 09:58:52

He is a pratt cannot lead a dog let alone one nation

And all this i just a poor boy from a poor family shit

He harldy grew up in a estate in brixton did he

Its like saying oh yes i went to a comp and then being asked were you live oh primrose hill
The type of comps were the homes near cost 500k you might as well be at a private school

Is father had all the connections je was never gonna end up working in greggs now was he

Fishwife1949 Wed 03-Oct-12 10:00:09

mumzy there is no bog standard comp in primrose hill

aufaniae Wed 03-Oct-12 10:17:40

Fishwife that's absolute nonsense.

If you read my post above you'd see I went to the same school as the Millibands, only a few years later, so I speak from first hand experience when I say Haverstock school is absolutely what I'd call a bog-standard comp. Can't say I particularly rated the education there tbh.

There were some middle class kids there, sure, but the school is flanked by estates, and there were plenty of working class kids. (Can't believe we're arguing about this hmm)

Primrose Hill is down the road. But Chalk Farm (where the school actually is) and Camden traditionally have a large working class population. It's certainly not not all posh houses.

You're talking out of your arse, as my school mates would have said!

Fishwife1949 Wed 03-Oct-12 10:27:55

Yes your right hes stright out of the chalk arm massive

He didnt live in a big house

Have nice hoildays
Or have connections many could only dream of

Fishwife1949 Wed 03-Oct-12 10:28:22

Farm not arm hehehe

aufaniae Wed 03-Oct-12 10:37:18

Fishwife you're moving the goalposts.

You didn't mention his homelife before, you were talking about his school, and you were making it up as you went along.

Are you not big enough to say "sorry, my mistake"?

Judder Wed 03-Oct-12 10:42:41

Apart from Ed Milliband I cannot think of one political leader who went to their local state comprehensive school. Because of this I do happen to think it is a massive deal, because it is so bloody rare. According to Pagwatch's "if kids in comps don't think they can be political leaders they must be a bit thick" theory this means that nearly all kids in comps are 'a bit thick', otherwise we would see more of them as political leaders. I do not subscribe to your theory, Pagwatch. Instead I think that there are social and cultural bars to children becoming political leaders if they don't go to private or selective schools, and one important step to breaking down these barriers is to have a political leader role model who went to a comp.

By the way, I do not accept the "it might have been a comp but it was in a nice area, and his parents were intellectuals so it doesn't count" argument. Of course it counts. He did not stand up and say "I was poor and deprived and I went to a sink school". He just said "I went to my local comprehensive school", which is a true statement that one that few political leaders can say, regardless.

Judder Wed 03-Oct-12 10:55:49

Slightly off-topic, but I have introduced my kids to this fantastic game on the UK parliament web site that opens up the world of political leadership to all — you get to make decisions as an MP for a week:

http://www.parliament.uk/education/online-resources/games/mp-for-a-week/

Recommended for KS2 and KS3!

I really think that to get the best leaders, we need to open up the opportunities wider.

Vagaceratops Wed 03-Oct-12 11:00:10

I cringed when he bought his old teacher out - like he needed proof or something, just in case we didnt believe him.

claig Wed 03-Oct-12 11:13:32

The Mail has some info on the school.

Miliband did get very good A level results, so we can't say that he had an easy way into Oxford

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2211962/Hardly-bog-standard--Ed-Milibands-days-Eton-lefties.html

His family wasn't wealthy and they were a political family. That is a sign that they really believed what they said. They were not ordinary Joes, but they are also not toffs.

It is important that politicians represent the people and understand how they live. They represent us, and should understand our lives and be in contact with ordinary people rather than living in ivory towers.

I think it was Clegg who thought that the old age pension was something like £30. That is not a good sign and shows how out of touch he was with the people he represents.

Some of these politicians are millionaires and have had all the privileges. They have chauffeur driven cars and some had expenses for duck houses and they get trips to Rio to discusss global warming. Some even introduced policies that fined struggling old-age pensioners £100 for not closing their bin lids (thankfully now scrapped by man of the people, the Tory Eric Pickles). That is why it is so important that politcians understand the lives of teh people they seek to represent.

We have seen on TV programmes, how good MPs have changed their views about the hardships of people living on benefits, when they have had to spend a week living on those council estates.

Miliband is not an ordinary Joe, but he is closer to all of us, has more empathy for us and understands us more than some of the toffs.

losingtrust Wed 03-Oct-12 11:46:46

I went to a comp and am of immigrant stock although second generation from my father but would not vote for somebody simply because they did the same. It is all about the person. The politics for me is irrelevant. They all end up doing the same when they get into power or meddle for meddling's sake. Labour are just glad they can blaim Tories for the cuts and the tories are happy they can blaim labour for the financial problems. As long as they all give into their votes for their own personal political careers like Cameron and the single State Pension and Ed Milliband and the unions, they will all be utterly useless. The only two politicians I rate are Duncan Smith and Steve Webb. Funnily enough DS did go to my school when it was a secondary modern but that is not the reason. Both of them seem to be following their ideals although unpopular with some rather than their political careers. Also much preferred David to Ed.

Viviennemary Wed 03-Oct-12 12:15:52

I've never liked Ed Miliband and thought his speech was nothing but waffle. He doesn't have any answers to the problems this country faces. All this one of the people nonsense is fooling nobody. The Labour Party has no chance unless they get somebody else to lead it. That's my opinion.

Davros Wed 03-Oct-12 12:40:53

I know Haverstock School and agree with what aufaniae says about it. DM did grow up in Primrose Hill which used to be a bit of a dump in the 70s tbh, although dump is relative, it wasn't anything like it is now. The Millibands did live just round the corner from where Boris grew up. Same area, different outcome!
I had to turn off the Daily Politics last night to take advantage of a sick bag.
I am sick of hearing "blame the bankers", OK they did their bit but the Labour Govt spent ALL the money. I know, I got plenty of it thrown at me as the parent of a disabled child. I don't mean the money to pay for my DS to have a decent school and home life, but all the shite like "making mosaics" courses to make me feel better. And then there was the Child Trust Fund which DD got FFS.

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 03-Oct-12 12:41:28

"Miliband is not an ordinary Joe, but he is closer to all of us, has more empathy for us and understands us more than some of the toffs"

Right now, when the global economy is going to hell in a handcart & none of the options on the table are exactly pretty I suspect a lot of the electorate are not looking for hand-wringing empathy and understanding and couldn't give a shit whether it's from 'toffs' or 'Joes'. I think the reason Milliband is failing to score is that he's not nasty enough. Not saying the Tories have the monopoly on Machiavellian techniques <waves at Peter Mandelson> but he doesn't come across as someone who could kick ass at the G7, put nuts in vices, threaten to show where the bodies are buried and whatever else it takes to get UK Plc back on the road. Maybe when things are a little rosier we can go back to touchy-feely, let's all worry about where we sat our O-levels politics.... I don't think it strikes the right chord at the moment.

ElBurroSinNombre Wed 03-Oct-12 12:50:27

I think that the speech as a whole lacked substance - I only detected one firm policy commitment in the whole thing - to seperate venture capital banking from high street banking. For me, that is much more of a problem than Miliband's school posturing - although it is rather cynical to use the fact that you went to a comp. to gather votes. It is true that there are not that many state educated politicians - particularly near the top of their parties. To me, the major reason for this, is that Labour government's in the 70's abolished grammar schools in most of the country - one of the few ways in which some bright working class kids could get a good education. It is particularly ironic that the architects of this policy, Hattersley, Healy, Jenkins et al., were all highly educated, working class ex grammar school boys.

Faxthatpam Wed 03-Oct-12 12:52:23

I think people feel disconnected from politicians and the political process - look at the stupendously low election turnouts ffs - and what Ed was trying to do was get people to reconnect. This is a worthy ambition imo and should be applauded, though a little ham fisted it was better than attempts by the absurd Boris Johnson - does anyone REALLY believe he would make a good PM??? I am open mouthed at his antics whenever he appears in public confused.
The life experience of a politician must count for something, and whatever the circumstances, a comp experience of any kind will be very different to the Eton experience of most of the cabinet.

Fishwife1949 Wed 03-Oct-12 12:52:32

The long and short is they choose the worng brother the unions bavked the worng horse or wallce as is the case

claig Wed 03-Oct-12 12:53:04

'he doesn't come across as someone who could kick ass at the G7, put nuts in vices, threaten to show where the bodies are buried and whatever else it takes to get UK Plc back on the road'

Do you mean someone like Thrasher?

aufaniae Wed 03-Oct-12 12:58:00

Slightly off topic, but did anyone see Gordon Brown's address the Levinson Enquiry, a while back, by the way?

It was the first time I'd really heard him speak and I was really surprised and impressed. He handled the questions honestly, sensitively, with humour and gravitas, and steered the discussions towards big ideas. He came across so well, proper leadership material IMO.

Shame we never saw that side of him publicly when he was in power!

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 03-Oct-12 13:09:12

"Do you mean someone like Thrasher?"

Not especially. Brown's just been mentioned and he certainly had 'Scary Bastard' DNA. But I think if either him or Mrs T or similar political figures had said 'we can do this the easy way or the hard way' there would have been sphincters flapping all the way across the Square Mile. grin Despite his rough upbringing, Ed's threat didn't quite come off.

Davros Wed 03-Oct-12 13:44:20

I think Ed Milliband should return to his home planet

SunWukong Wed 03-Oct-12 13:59:46

So the labour party finally had a whip round and bought some extra ram for the millibot 3000, to increase his capacity to store pre written speech data, how nice for them. Now what does that mean to me?.

mumzy Wed 03-Oct-12 14:05:54

Everytime I see Ed Millband I can't get this image out of my mind. gromit is Peter Mandelson or Ed Balls www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/cracking-lookalike-gromit--i-do-resemble-wallace-admits-ed-miliband-7827151.html

TheCraicDealer Wed 03-Oct-12 14:06:25

The "one of us" thing is beginning to wear a little thin. I already know more about the Milibands' family history than if they'd been on Who Do You Think You Are and frankly, I don't give a shit. Also don't care where he went to school, hardly like he had a massive say in it when his parents were such die-hard socialists. It's also incredibly hypocritical- how many of the Labour government were privately educated? Did they care so much in 1997 when they won?

What I do care about is having a leader representing this country who can lead from the front and not look like a work experience student out of his depth most of the time, which Ed fails to do.

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 03-Oct-12 15:06:45

Maybe the 'one of us' isn't 'I'm not a toff' but 'I'm not an alien'. hmm Exclusive club consisting of ED, Michael Gove and John Redwood

TheCrackFox Wed 03-Oct-12 15:42:05

TBH I just cringed and had to stop watching.

Why did he have to announce he didn't have a script? Big deal, he memorised his speach, or just doing the job he is paid to do.

Also I couldn't give a shiney shit what school he went to or what his parents did. He needs to lay off the man of the people spiel as it is improbable that he buys his lunch from Greggs, watches the X Factor on a Saturday night or buys a lottery ticket.

What everyone wants to know is can he fix the economy. Probably not.

kdiddy Wed 03-Oct-12 16:39:42

TheCrackFox I know - the continual focus on him not having a script just sounds patronising - "bless little Ed, he did really well didn't he, didn't even have any notes!". It's the kind of damning with faint praise you do when there's not much else to recommend someone. Of COURSE someone in his position should be able to speak, without a script, from the heart. He doesn't get any bonus points from me for being able to do it.

I hate these speeches. Full of vacuous soundbites and stating the obvious, punctuated by sycophantic applause.

TheCraicDealer Wed 03-Oct-12 16:47:06

Peter Kay, Dara O'Briain and Michael McIntyre regularly talk on stage for an hour or more without notes, and they're usually slightly more amusing than Ed was. Does this mean they'll be fab PM's?

OwlLady Wed 03-Oct-12 17:03:33

It doesn't matter what anyone's background is, it's more to do with principles. I couldn't care less if he came from one of the best private schools or whether he went to a state school in a former mining town, what is important is that the party works for what it always has and that is providing a good society for the vast majority of the people in this country and supporting those who cannot support themselves, which I believe they did when they were in power. People forget all the good that they did, putting down seeds to create support networks for those struggling, like suretstart centres and the like and all of that good work is being undone. I think this should be concentrated on, not who ate the most pork scratchings

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 03-Oct-12 17:44:57

If people forget all the good they did, isn't that Ed's fault for doing a bad PR job? Or do we all know that any good they was rather overshadowed by little things like waging war on false pretences and leaving the country potless?

Davros Wed 03-Oct-12 17:55:47

But they went too far and it cost too much

MadBusLady Wed 03-Oct-12 17:57:00

I find the constant courting of the "squeezed middle" (from all parties) so depressing. What about the squeezed bottom? The squeeze is on everyone except the very top.

Also, Cogito wrote this, but it is such a good point it is worth mentioning twice!:

Right now, when the global economy is going to hell in a handcart & none of the options on the table are exactly pretty I suspect a lot of the electorate are not looking for hand-wringing empathy and understanding and couldn't give a shit whether it's from 'toffs' or 'Joes'.

Snog Wed 03-Oct-12 18:29:51

Didn't see the speech but thought his interview on BBC Breakfast today was shabby. He said Cameron was being evasive about revealing his income and then when asked about his own income got all giggly and evasive himself.

I also think that his refusal to be clear about any policies on the grounds thay an election is still 2 years away means his party lacks all credibility as an alternative to the tories/liberals. Which is frankly pathetic.

Alurkatsoftplay Wed 03-Oct-12 18:30:30

Agree absolutely with pagwatch "the ridiculous emphasis on the schooling of the 40 something men in politics is a complete waste of time"

Of course I dont like that some of them (both parties) are multi millionaires - but i probably like even less that a lot of them are raging hypocrites - like labour govt who gave us all the crap about state schools and higher taxes being wonderful and then individually moved heaven and earth to avoid both.

OwlLady Wed 03-Oct-12 18:42:33

davros, some would say the conservatives are going too far the other way as well. I can only speak from my own perspective but I have unfortunately had to move area with a severely disabled child and my already small care package was reduced as they insisted on re assessing my child. I got 12 hours respite per week prior to moving and I now get 7 hours a month, most of which happens whilst i am at work. We are at absolute breaking point but my MP (also tory) doesn't seem to care either. i think it will take for either me or my daughter to drop dead tbh and it makes me laugh because the risk assessments for this respite state without 2 to 1 support in the community it would end in my daughters or someone elses death

there are not enough ffs

Davros Wed 03-Oct-12 20:24:55

So they shouldn't have wasted it on all that crap and blown the lot.
The biggest multi-millionaire of them all is Tony Blair

garderner Wed 03-Oct-12 22:06:45

I met him once, quite attractive, I was suprised.... I must say he is more convincing then creapy Cameron.

breadandbutterfly Wed 03-Oct-12 22:39:26

Sounds dreadful, OwlLady - hope we get a govt in that will support those who need it most and that you get more support before that..

OwlLady Wed 03-Oct-12 23:16:24

my mom met tb too, said he had nice skin hmm hmm not bothered about his skin!

MrJudgeyPants Thu 04-Oct-12 00:14:58

Continued from another thread...

Ed is crap.

chipstick10 Thu 04-Oct-12 08:21:56

I have to say i am highly confused as to how his speech has gone down so well and propelled him in the polls.!!!!!!! How has this happened? What were people watching and are the public that easily p;eased or conned or won over!!!! I must have been watching a different speech (before i turned over due to the cringe factor). Is this just media hype or are we missing something?

MadBusLady Thu 04-Oct-12 08:38:39

chipstick Generally opposition parties get a poll boost at conference time, because it gives them more media coverage than they normally get. More coverage = more support, not so much because everybody believes/loves them, more that anyone looking for an alternative to the government subliminally thinks "Oh, there's these guys, they can walk upright and say words, I'll support them!"

minderjinx Thu 04-Oct-12 09:29:40

DS's thought for the day "Mum, what's the difference between a Miliband and a Taliband?"

CogitoErgoSometimes Thu 04-Oct-12 09:42:05

<bates breath waiting for punchline>

SpringierSpaniel Thu 04-Oct-12 10:17:25

I thought his speech held promise........ promise that is of "Jam tomorrow".

We all know that Labour's last long period of sole custody of the foodstore cupboard, despite being a period when there was real jam and virtual jam aplenty, has left the UK with no chance of even "Lidl value jam" to put on our collective bread for the forseeable future.

somebloke123 Thu 04-Oct-12 10:21:38

Yes when the cupboard is bare it's hard to see what the point of Labour is.

LilyBolero Thu 04-Oct-12 12:10:21

The 'one nation' line was not just 'penned for him by some scriptwriter'.

It was a direct reference to Benjamin Disraeli, who famously used it, and who was a Tory. It is intended to show that the party that is interested in governing for the WHOLE country and not just for the 'elite' is now the Labour party.

And coming a week before the Tory party conference, it is a very potent line to take. They somehow have to prove they are not just on the side of millionaires (who they are giving £££ of tax cuts to) but also on the side of those on housing benefit, the disabled, the vulnerable and the poor. But to those people they cut their benefits and say 'get back to work'. Never mind the lack of jobs, or the sheer impossibility of going back to work.

I thought Ed did well. The proof of the pudding is in the eating, and what will be the decider for Ed is what their manifesto at the next election is. The questions to ask will be 'what is their plan', 'what does it cost' and 'will it work'.

It is not possible for them to do that yet, because who knows what a dog's breakfast Gideon can make of the UK economy between now and then? But the promises made for the next election from all parties are the things to judge them on.

CogitoErgoSometimes Thu 04-Oct-12 13:51:16

Disraeli never used the phrase 'one nation'. He used the phrase 'two nations' in his book of the same name.

LilyBolero Thu 04-Oct-12 14:13:21

That's splitting hairs, no idea if that is correct or not, but his philosophy was that of one nation.

One Nation Conservatism under Disraeli

notenoughsocks Thu 04-Oct-12 14:33:32

I was going to make a similar point, Lily.

I think the point there was that he was quite obviously - and it was supposed to be obvious- happy to be seen stealing the Conservative's clothes - the attractive ones at least. FWIW, I probably associate one-nation conservatism more closely with the post-war consensus era. Apparent shared prosperity, no crazy radicalism, that sort of thing.

I enjoyed Ed's speech (the bits I saw). But then, I would: I am a Labour supporter. I started watching it with a slightly pained yet hopeful look on my face. I usually adopt this expression when I watch him speak. Normally it just slides into mild disapointment. I quite liked the contents of the speech but, in truth, I think I just felt relieved for him when he managed to pull off a half decent performance and even managed to get some people laughing.

notenoughsocks Thu 04-Oct-12 14:53:34

Just read that back and thought I'd better be clear. I don't normally get disapointed by what Ed Milliband is saying. I think a lot of it, although it sounds like a work in progress, sounds quite thoughtful and construtive and I tend to agree with much of it.
What disappoints me is his delivery. Probably not up there anyhhow usually. Wen thinking of him in terms of leading the Opposition in to a General Election it seems appalling since image and playable soundbites seem to be so so so important these days.

LilyBolero Thu 04-Oct-12 15:03:18

The interesting thing about Ed Miliband is that a lot of what he says is decent stuff. And looking back over his time as the leader of the Labour party, there are a significant number of times that he has been ridiculed by the Tories for what he's said, but it's rung true with the electorate, and then the Tories have HAD to think about it, and sometimes even acted. He is setting the agenda a lot of the time.

His delivery isn't as polished as Dave's. But then Dave had a background in PR. And tbh, Dave REALLY is the epitome of an empty vessel - there is nothing to back up the polish. Give it a rub and the edifice collapses.

As a bit of an aside; before the 2010 election, Dave was asked why he wanted to be PM - he said "Well, I think I'd be quite good at it"....! And he also said "How hard can it be???"

Say no more.

LilyBolero Thu 04-Oct-12 15:05:07

One Nation = No Etonian
grin

Brycie Thu 04-Oct-12 16:04:08

He is so annoying. Looks like such a tool.

Brycie Thu 04-Oct-12 16:06:11

The reason so many young people can't get jobs now is entirely his party's fault, or its ideology anyway - ie it's a generation of under-educated people! You only got a decent grounding if you had decent parents to help and teach you. Pure elitism in my opinion.

Brycie Thu 04-Oct-12 16:07:57

Annoying little tick. Have I made myself ABSOLUTELY CLEAR grin

CogitoErgoSometimes Thu 04-Oct-12 18:10:31

"His delivery isn't as polished as Dave's"

And, like it or not, politicians sink or swim by their persona. Michael Foot also had interesting things to say but got tagged as a scarecrow and never recovered. Cameron may have more style than substance but at least that's getting it the right way round for the X Factor generation.

Davros Thu 04-Oct-12 19:58:55

If you want to see a dog's breakfast of the economy you only have to go back to the last Labour Govt, Gordon Brown and his henchmen David Milliband and Ed Ballsup

MadBusLady Thu 04-Oct-12 20:02:43

I don't think I'd put Miliband in the same camp as Michael Foot, to be honest. Disagree with him or not, the man had principles and you were in no doubt as to what they were.

Quite a rare commodity now, that.

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