Lib Dem manifesto

[anastaisia]

And to make sure we don't leave them out here's the Lib Dems Manifesto

First thoughts - far less waffle and on to policy quite quickly. Overuse of the work 'fair' though and I'm only on page 15!

[anastaisia]

They actually give figures!!!

At the end they have tables of figures with predicted tax gains and spending.

[TottWriter]

There's an awful lot in there which I agree with. Particularly on education and the environment.

I was completely failed by a curriculum which tried to push me down the 'core' subjects route because it looked good for the school. Any system which offers children an education and options for the future which suit them is good in my eyes.

Yes, there are some hard decisions laid out there, but it's certainly less patronising than the "roll up your sleeves and give us your free time" attitude of the conservatives. It was also nice to read something which didn't consist mostly of nice pictures and carefully chosen 'shocking' pie charts.

Though to be fair, I have somehow missed out on reading the full Labour manifesto as yet, so I am mainly comparing with the tories.

[anastaisia]

I like the green economy ideas a lot. They're quite simple, and easy to implement, and things like the loans to schools to become more eco friendly shows longer term planning rather than just throwing money at a problem as though it will make it disappear

[spilttheteaagain]

I'm really impressed by it so far.

Hurrah for a party that wants to give the winter fuel payment to the disabled!

It makes so much sense to increase the personal allowance to 10k, think how much admin they will save on part time workers etc.

I v.much approve of CGT being set at the same level as Income tax and NI combined, and that should be a nice little earner for them.

Seems like some sensible ideas about pensions too (tax relief capped at basic rate, not forcing the annuity purchase by 75, ability to cash in bits of it early, the annual raise being the greater of inflation, growth in earnings or 2.5% etc)

I'm only on page 12...

[spilttheteaagain]

Getting rid of the 50% to university target and phasing out tuition fees completely

[spilttheteaagain]

Giving fathers entitlement to time off for antenatal appointments, and allowing maternity & paternity leave to be shared between a couple, and ultimately aim to increase this shared parental leave to 18 months.

[spilttheteaagain]

ooh this is a good one about energy bills:

Legislate so that the first part of the energy you use is on the cheaper tariff and the next bit on the expensive one... rather than The Other Way Round like it is at the moment, which always seemed so stupid when we're supposed to be being encouraged to use as little as possible!

[growell]

This was all I needed to show they are are prone to crazy, naive, irresponsible ideas:-

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/let-16yearolds-visit-sex-shops-and-see-explicit-porn-say-lib- dems-567128.html

Not for me I'm afraid.

[spilttheteaagain]

Growell that's a bit odd and !

[anastaisia]

Its also from 2004, I rather suspect that all the parties have changed their policies over 6 years and it might be a little unfair to judge them only on that.

[HLaurens]

Why isn't the Lib Dem manifesto also on the discussions of the day? Surely they deserve to be seriously considered alongside the Labour and Conservative?

[TottWriter]

I was wondering that. Particularly as it is actually far more through and well thought-out than the conservative one.

I just laughed and laughed when I heard DC on the radio today claiming that if you wanted to get liberal policies, you should vote Conservative as they were the ones that would get into power. Part of it was the irony, and part of it was honest despair that there are probably thousands who will actually belive them, and throw their vote on a party who are near enough the polar opposites in many respects.

[vesela]

In 2006 the Lib Dems had a clearout of old policies and got rid of ones like Growell links to from 2004. If I remember rightly (it was debated at the only conference I went to) the way they did it was to put an automatic "expiry date" on all policies unless the conference voted to renew them - something along those lines. So the other parties could no longer go round saying "look, the Lib Dems have these whacko policies on this and that" and drag out policies from 1983 or whenever.

[jollydiane]

I'm not sure I understand the bank bonus policy so if there are any Lib Dems out there who can explain it to me I am willing to be convinced.

Here are my issues with it:

Was it a joke or did they mean to put £25,000 as the limit?

If you work for a foreign bank do you get paid in shares in the state that they are registered in or in sterling?

What happens if you leave the bank before the 5 years is up?

How much will it cost to administer?

Are banks supposed to find the funds to administer or do you think that most banks will just not bother to pay the fairly modest bonus of £2500.01.

Is it all bank employees or only certain ones? For example if you work in the staff restaurant e.g. head chef, are you caught by the limit? If not, where are the lines drawn. If you are a self employed contractor is that caught by the rules?

Are back to work maternity bonuses captured?

When you say it out loud if you have to agree the idea is a little ill thought out.

I am happy to debate it.
JD

[jollydiane]

So can nobody disagree with me? No?

[jackstarbright]

Jd - sorry can't disagree it with you, but am scatching my head with you. It just shows that they really don't believe they will need to implement it.

[growell]

Sorry, but for such a thing to even be discussed, let alone approved, by a so called viable party, in the last few years just does not add up. Most of their party voted for that legislation, how many faces have changed since 2004, whether or not it is now scarpped?? The term 'not fit' sits very nicely, whatever you think of the other two parties none would even debate such thing. The last thing I would want is my 15 year old being furnished with information about the sex industry, because thats what the schools career advisers would be obligated to do? I know folk who say 'I'm voting for x.y & z' because they save a few quid here and there (it's all rubbish, it all levels out eventually over 4 years). Look a little deeper at the core principles and you will find far greater implications/consequences for voting someone in.

[vesela]

jollydiane - I agree, £2,500 seems low.

[vesela]

jollydiane again - if you post here on Lib Dem Voice you might get some more debate/answers, although I'm not sure that anyone will necessarily know more than the press release.

If this were policy that had already been voted on by conference (it hasn't yet been) then the details would be more widely known because they would have been hashed over and debated, possibly changed.

[Roastchicken]

Have to say, I'm very dissapointed by the manifesto. Although raising the personal allowance is in principle a good thing, it is crazy to make a £17bn tax-cut when the deficit is so high. All other taxes will just go up by more to pay for it and the deficit.

Also, the removal of pensions tax-relief is awful. The whole point of pensions is that one does not pay tax on contributions, but once you start drawing on the pension, the pension income is taxed. Withdrawing tax relief means that one is then taxed twice. This would have a much more disastrous consequence on pensions than Brown's tax-grab. Without tax relief there is no point to a pension.

The £2,500 banker's bonus cap is ridiculous. I agree that banker's bonuses are out of hand but that is not the way to solve it.

Its a shame as our local MP is LibDem and does a good job, but I cannot vote for these policies.

[vesela]

Tax relief on pensions would still exist at the basic rate, though.

[Roastchicken]

For a higher rate taxpayer, it reduces the benefit from pensions by at least 20% and it means that there is double taxation (on the way in and on the way out). This is in comparison with an ISA where you pay income tax, but no tax on any gains.

In the SE its hard to make much savings with 40k income.

[MissWooWoo]

yes MNHQ why isn't the LibDem manifesto in discussions of the day? Let's get it up there ... please

[TottWriter]

growell - You do have apoint about looking further than the surface when it comes to parties manifestoes and messages. But frankly, I have looked beneath the surface of the Lib Dem policies, and I see a party striving to level the playing field a little, so people are no longer handicapped by the happenstance of their birth parents or the neighbourhood in which they grow up, and where disabled people are not penalised for having additional needs.

When I look under the surface of the other parties I do not see such a reassuring message. In fact, what I see are pure capitalist policies which will do exactly the opposite.

[vesela]

Roastchicken, you're talking about a pretty big pension for it to be taxed at the 40% rate, though.

Institute of Fiscal Studies' evaluation of Lib Dem tax plans here.

"So what is the overall picture? We can be pretty confident that the Liberal Democrats' headline giveaway would cost roughly what they claim. Whether the revenue raising measures would yield what they expect is much more uncertain - and we cannot even say with confidence whether they are more likely to raise too much revenue or too little. On the one hand, their estimates of the revenue to be raised from tackling avoidance and evasion seem optimistic; on the other hand, the estimates of the revenue to be raised from the rest of the package if anything look pessimistic."