labours stance on selective education?

(26 Posts)
3asAbird Sat 15-Oct-16 06:50:59

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3831566/amp/The-hypocrisy-Labour-s-high-priestess-principle-Shami-Chakrabarti-fights-selective-education-sends-son-18-000-year-public-school-did-sell-out.html?client=ms-android-hms-vf-gb

Genuinely puzzled are they hypocrites .

Dossier so far

Diane Abbott old one now sent het son private

Tony Blair chose a selective faith based education at top school in London when many parents don't get any of their 6 preferences.

Emily thornbury sent hers private.

Jeremy corbyn not only attended a grammar school but also sent his own kids something he said he regret and part of his marriage breakdown.
Anyone know how his kids actually did in later life so they regret their education?

Think shania is an odd one.
Never actually been elected
Always lots to say yet can't stand up to her husband over their son's schooling.
Was bit embarrassing watching her on peston when asked

I think David Cameron kids went state not sure they still do.

I think parents should have choice.
But to reject state selection but afford to send child private selection does seem hypocritical.

So what exactly is labours stance on education

As many mps went grammar or private themselves
The few who went comprehensive seem got into more prestigious ones.

I have to think grammar and ability is fairer than expensive postcode or ability to pay.

Right now education in England is postcode lottery
It's already selective even in non grammar areas.
Private/ faith and couple exclusive comps tiny expensive catchment areas.
Each local authority gets different amounts per pupil.
Education is not a level playing feild as it is.

Maybe we need greater variety

Grammars with 11 13 and 16 entry
Technical schools or studio schools as seem to be called here
Improved comprehensives
Private schools working more with state.

What's labours alternative policies?

Sixisthemagicnumber Sat 15-Oct-16 07:09:36

David Cameron chose state schools when he was PM but the state schools that he could access were not your average state schools and most parents who favour selective education would have been happy with David Cameron's state school options.
He was reported to be considering £18000 a year Colet court for his son now that he is no longer PM. Colet court is a very prestigious prep, known to be a feeder for Eton.

I have children of various abilities and have used a mix of state and private (via 100% bursary) and one of my children had offers for grammar. I think it is good that I have some choice despite not being able to live in an area with fantastic state schools (like the prime minister). I have zero choice for my child who has severe learning disabilities but scrapping grammars and private schools wouldn't change that.
In order for poorer schools to do better we need to change the attitude and involvement levels of some parents as that is key to education.
For example: if Trafford had no grammar schools the schools it has would still achieve very high results (like Wellington secondary in Trafford) because the catchments would be very middle class and the majority of children in the area would have very involved parents (that is why they spend £££££ on houses in that area). Nearby Wythenshawe would still have poor schools because sadly too many of the parents there don't show enough interest in their children's education. You might have an extra few very bright children in the Wythenshawe schools that would have previously would have got a place at a Trafford grammar but I don't think a very tiny number of children is going to do much to improve the Wythenshawe schools. It might however have a negative impact on the education of that Wythenshawe child who might previously have gained a place at a Trafford grammar.

I couldn't really care how many labour or Tory or other party MPs use selective education but I do think they need to be a bit more honest and be prepared to stand up for their decisions instead of pretending that they don't like selection.

lljkk Sat 15-Oct-16 09:15:08

OP misrepresented Corbyn's experience (I am not a JC fan, btw).
I don't think Corbyn should be held responsible for decisions his parents made... Corbyn has always been on record as opposing grammar schools & he broke up his marriage partly b/c of disagreement with ex about what school.

I don't know about all the others, but given the OP's misrepresentation of Corbyn's situation, I don't have much faith in what else OP wrote.

Given the "Sign petition against grammars" is first link on the Labour party website, I think it's safe to say they are against.

claig Sat 15-Oct-16 09:15:32

Here is the link

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3831566/The-hypocrisy-Labour-s-high-priestess-principle-Shami-Chakrabarti-fights-selective-education-sends-son-18-000-year-public-school-did-sell-out.html

Yes, I think it is typical metropolitan elite hypocrisy, it is what we are all used to with these elites.

claig Sat 15-Oct-16 09:21:58

Here is something about Stephen Kinnock and private schools

'Angry' Kinnock slams private schools and then sends daughter to £29k-a-year one

www.express.co.uk/news/politics/523144/Kinnock-slams-private-schools-then-sends-daughter-to-29k-a-year-one

3asAbird Sat 15-Oct-16 09:54:02

Obviously the mps have no choice over where they went corbyn parebts picked his school.

But he and his ex wife chose grammar for their kids.

It's just seems odd so many are against selection but choose selective state schools or private schools.

Obviously despite their job roles they have make best decision for their children totally get that.

But I feel those in all parties against selection but chosen selection for their kids should maybe just say less on the matter.

I am interested in labours vision for future as it's not clear.
I like jc I just don't like all his policies

lljkk Sat 15-Oct-16 10:42:09

This story says that Corbyn's marriage failed b/c he did not want his son to go the grammar. "Without the consent of my husband."

Are we back to paranoid statements that insist everyone is lying?

Sixisthemagicnumber Sat 15-Oct-16 13:33:21

Would Corbyn be In The position that he is without his grammar school education? Maybe he would and maybe he wouldn't. But seeing as he is in that position and has had a grammar school education and when you consider the vast number of MPs who have had a private or grammar education I think Corbyn is a fool for not wanting his son to take up his grammar school place. It's all very well wanting equality in education but why use your own child as an example? I think getting a divorce over such an issue is a drastic measure unless the child himself didn't want to go to the grammar school and Corbyn rescued him from such a terrible fate by gaining full custody and sending his child to the desired local comp. do I believe that the marriage collapsed solely due to their differing educational choices?

PigletWasPoohsFriend Sat 15-Oct-16 13:38:33

I don't know about all the others, but given the OP's misrepresentation of Corbyn's situation, I don't have much faith in what else OP wrote.

Other than the bit said about Corbyn, the rest is correct.

Dapplegrey1 Sat 15-Oct-16 13:42:45

lljkk - I agree with you that people can't be blamed for the educational choices made by their parents, though accusing people of being public school educated is regularly used as an insult.
However, Shami Shakrabarti and Diane Abbott chose independent schools for their children.

CauliflowerSqueeze Sat 15-Oct-16 15:18:28

It's just seems odd so many are against selection but choose selective state schools or private schools.

Everyone wants the best for their child.
Politicians are no different. They may feel state comprehensive education is the best for everyone else's child, but it takes quite a strong politician to stick to their party's policy no matter what.

MoggyP Sat 15-Oct-16 15:25:11

Shami Chakrabati is not however an elected MP and made her decisions about her DS's schooling before her ennoble meant and acceptance of a political role in the shadow cabinet.

Corbyn chose her - do you think he either knew or cared about her (and her DH's) choices for his schools when he did that? (genuine question)

lljkk Sat 15-Oct-16 15:50:46

I think Dianne Abbot is on record having talked about the bullying her son had, and special needs, and struggles they had in state sector until they found a good fit school for her son (which school happened to be private). People seem to love to hate DA no matter what she does, anyway (the British HClinton?).

Given Corbyn didn't get a tertiary level qualification, I'm not sure what good his grammar school back ground did him.

Why not moan about where Yvette Cooper/ Dan Jarvis / Andy Burnham / Ed Milliband / Gordon Brown sent their kids to school?

Sixisthemagicnumber Sat 15-Oct-16 16:51:19

I can't stand Diane Abbott but my dislike of her has nothing to do with her school choices. I just think she is a bumbling idiot and a hopeless politician. I question corny a decision to appoint Abbott to a senior shadow cabinet position much more than I question either his or Abbotts school choices for their children. Am I allowed to be cynical about whether corbyns decision making when it comes to Abbott has more to do with their romantic history than it does her political abilities?

Sixisthemagicnumber Sat 15-Oct-16 16:52:13

Corny a decision should read Corbyns decision but I think I quite like the autocorrect version.

riceuten Sat 15-Oct-16 16:58:07

Corbyn actually split up with his wife over this issue.

fourmummy Sun 16-Oct-16 08:38:33

Oh dear, of dear, oh dear...

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3839975/Shami-Chakrabarti-embroiled-new-education-row-emerges-sent-son-18-000-prep-school.html

fourmummy Sun 16-Oct-16 08:56:19

Note to UK trougher (WW wink) Shami - if you send your kid to selective schools from the age of four, don't tell the papers that you are against selection...

3asAbird Sun 16-Oct-16 09:22:19

I remember watching a episode of the thick of it where malcolm was telling female mp her chikd had to go state.

I have no idea where ed balls/yvette Cooper send their children or other mps.

It would be interesting if was a list to see how state% is for each party.

It's not just labour it's socialist journalists from guardian which also choose to send their kids private then moan about equality and improving state education.

I very much doubt corbyn marriage was over just because of school issues think other factors duanne Abbot maybe.
I had a row when my eldest was in year 2 over moving our child from a failing state primary to a better one .
We did not break up over it and are currently looking at senior schools together and deciding as Co parent's where we thinks best.

The irony that shami used to work for liberty human rights to yet she claims her son's education was the sole choice of her ex and she couldent stand up to him!

I think corbyn made a mistake picking Abbot and shami as it's now makes it very hard for labour to be an effective opposition when it comes to discussing selective education .

I anticipate be much more debate and news stories about this issue when the commons vote to pass the grammar bill through.

Like I say of course each parent has a choice well the wealthy have more choice.
Always wondered witu mps kids do they choose schools in London or their own constituency?

If I choose to send my kids private and few freinds were debating local state schools I think I keep myself out of it.

Conservative mps of course do send their kids private too but least they bit more upfront about it.
I know not every tory agrees too just like labour I'm sure some if them genuinely support state education and send theirs state.
But even then it can be selection of good school by postcode .

I would like to hear some credible ideas on education from labour.

So many top jobs mps /media/journalism /law are dominated by people who attended private school or state grammar .
Only 7%of kids in uk go privates.

I am not against private I have many freinds who go private

We possibly would but can't afford send 3 kids to private school.

I just think if you pick a selective education for your child maybe they should keep their opinion to themselves or not be placed in high profile roles that are at odd with main party message on the issue.

lifeissweet Sun 16-Oct-16 09:33:24

I think the problem is that we have the system we have and MPs - just like everyone else - have to make the best choice for their children. It would be pretty appalling to use your children's education to score political points.

You can be against selective education as a system and want it gone, but you will also then have to navigate the situation that exists - which is that in some areas, the selective school that already exist cream off the top and turn the remaining comprehensives into sink schools.

Until that playing field is levelled, MPs have to choose the best school for their children.

My (lefty - comprehensive supporting) father says this about my education. Prior to starting secondary school, we lived in an area where the middle class parents invariably sent their children to selective schools. The comprehensives were not good at all (this was prior to ofsted and the NC and standards were not so rigorously monitored).

As it happens, we moved up North before I was secondary age and we ended up somewhere with fewer selective schools and very good comprehensives, so we were comprehensively educated.

I asked DF what would have happened if we had not moved and his answer was that 'despite your principles, you have to back your children'

3asAbird Sun 16-Oct-16 09:33:47

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/09/jeremy-corbyns-crusade-against-grammar-schools-sets-himself-agai/

fourmummy Sun 16-Oct-16 09:56:46

Corbyn says his wife made him do it.
Charkrabarti says that her husband made her do it.
Abbott says that hers needed an extra leg-up to everyone else's.

We are in the territory of excuses and justifications.

fourmummy Sun 16-Oct-16 11:31:32

I think the problem is that we have the system we have and MPs - just like everyone else - have to make the best choice for their children

It's not about this. It's about:

If Charkrabarti is for selective education, then why is she against selective education?

cdtaylornats Tue 18-Oct-16 18:53:17

Like most socialists they are against privileges for you not them.

zen1 Tue 18-Oct-16 19:02:01

IIRC, Harriet Harman sent her son to a super selective grammar in the 90s. If they (Labour) are anti private/selective schooling, then they should abide by their own principles.

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