Debate - Corbyn vs Labour's David Brent 9pm BBC1 Question Time

[claig]

Penultimate chance for the 172 to rescue their bid to topple Corbyn.

Be warned, it is highly likely that the debate will contain examples of outrageous "banter", likely to be described as "it's just banter", from Owen Brent. There usually is everytime he is let loose on the public and makes a public appearance in aid of the 172.

[EnthusiasmDisturbed]

Neither were that convincing

The heckling was embarrassing but that is expected now if anyone disagrees with Corbyn

Smith messed up the Brexit question and could have held Corbyn to account

Corbyn looked flustered when questioned about Hamas and didn't answer questions directly (so much for a different type of politics)

Corbyn just managed to stay calm when questioned by Dimbleby over so many Labour Supporters not knowing if Laboit supported Remain or Leave but his answer was pathetic

Smith could have thrown back to Corbyn that he has never served as a shadow minister and never would have as he constantly rebelled against the party

no one will will against Corbyn at this point of time next time there will be a stronger candidate with a much better chance

I think Corbyn looked less rehearsed Smith could have given shorter answers but I'm glad he raised the issue of the far left and their influence

It was depressing viewing

[EnthusiasmDisturbed]

No one will win ....

[claig]

'Smith could have thrown back to Corbyn that he has never served as a shadow minister and never would have as he constantly rebelled against the party'

But that would only have increased Corbyn's popularity because it would have emphasised how different he is to the 172 based on principles.

'next time there will be a stronger candidate with a much better chance '

I doubt it. Most members now want a principled left wing party rather than a Blairite/Brownite/Establishment one.

' I'm glad he raised the issue of the far left and their influence '

I don't think it worked because most people don't believe a word Smith says (or Blair etc, or even the 172 say).

[claig]

When Smith was challenged brilliantly by an audience member about why Smith would not work with Corbyn if Corbyn is chosen by Labour mmbers above Smith and the 172 and was asked how he could justify that position and call himself Labour and when it was put to him gently that Smith may be in the wrong party, Smith was stunned and silenced for a moment and then fell back to a 172 trick and cried "abuse" to even dare suggest such a thing. But that didn't work either because it made Smith look weak.

[claig]

Smith's campaign is comedy gold. He is the David Brent/Frank Spencer/Norman Wisdom of politics who puts his foot in his mouth and falls flat on his face at every possible opportunity while crying "I blame Jeremy", "I am a Tory" at every hustings and press conference.

On top of that, he likes a bit of "banter" and when called out on it by shocked loyal Labour Party members, he cries "ooh you are awful", "It's just banter" and have you heard the one about my inside leg measurement.

Even the 172, desperate to topple a left wing leader, seem to have declined to hold any more media interviews to support the hapless Smith in case their future career climbing prospects are harmed by associating themselves with this Dick (and his inside leg) Emery candidate.

No one has any sympathy for the po-faced 172, they wanted to topple a left wing leader with the largest mandate in UK political history and who has increased membership to make Labour the largest political party in Europe, and they chose a David Brent wannabe former PR man to do it.

The campaign is comedy gold, Smith is the gift that keeps giving. He hasn't got the gift of the gab, he has got the gift of the gob. Smith is like a character in a cheesy Ben Elton sitcom.

The pompous Labour conferences with Smith at the podium have a sign saying "Owen Smith. Labour's Future". No wonder members want the past back with Old Labour and Corbyn. Smith's sign should really say

"Owen Smith. It's just banter"

and he should go all out for it and play his comic character to the full and deliver stories like

"Have you heard the one about Jeremy. He didn't want to have meetings with me. He only met me once and when I asked him for another, he told me once was enough".

"I blame Jeremy"

Everyone else blames the 172.

[EnthusiasmDisturbed]

well different reports in the news who came out better

most agree it is not good for the Labour party neither looked like a party leader who could lead the party to win an election, this we all know

and as once again it was proved by votes yesterday and that is what matters Corbyn is winning a relatively small number people over and more worrying he is losing labour support

Imagine support going up by 30% well done LibDems not sure what they are doing right I think its more what other parties are not doing wrong and that was a safe seat for labour yet the votes didn't go labours way

[claig]

'well different reports in the news who came out better'

Blairites, mates of the "magic circle", metropolitans, the usual lot.

[claig]

The UKIP voting audience member nearly sank Owen Smith's and even Corbyn's entire campaign. One ordinary person, not involved in politics, just a voter, in the audience with more common sense than the 172's hope, Smith. It was laughable and sad, but is representative of the metropolitan plonkers the country is run by.

Theresa May will clean up against these chumps. She is common sense and brave and is tearing up the entire metropolitan consensus while Smith weakly cries "I blame Jeremy".

[EnthusiasmDisturbed]

There is Twitter too not just mainstream media

Smith had a point Corbyn could hold May to account what does Brexit mean he doesn't bother why

And voting is the true show of how popular a party is and labour lost a safe seat yesterday that is with momentum doing all they can to make sure labour won

[claig]

'Smith had a point Corbyn could hold May to account what does Brexit mean he doesn't bother why'

No, Smith is flogging a dead horse, the train has left the station and he is on the paltform shouting "I blame Jeremy, bring the train back, I want to go back to Brussels". Brexit means we are leaving the EU and Corbyn has the nous and respect for the British people and for democracy to understand that. What deal we arrive at will take years, but Brexit means we are leaving. Corbyn is not crying over spilt milk, while Owen Smith hopes to put it all back in the bottle and turn the clock back wile Northern Labour heartlands voted out. It almost looks like Smith is trying to win the votes of the "magic circle" rather than the Labour heartlands. It's almost as if he is metropolitan and has learnt nothing from Corbyn's rise aand from Brexit.

[gemmawinegum]

I watched it and just thought are these two men seriously the best opposition this country can muster?

[EnthusiasmDisturbed]

sheffield

Local elections

Voters have gone out and supported Corbyn

That is what counts

[claig]

You are right, gemma. It is sad, but most of our entire political class is not much better than these metropolitans. The one bright hope is Theresa May. She is transforming everything with courage and purpose. Finally the people are being led by someone worthy of the role.

[EnthusiasmDisturbed]

It's depressing Gemma

And one has proved to be useless as leader of the opposition

Neither will ever be PM we could give the other a chance to lead a better opposition until Labour is in a position to vote for a credible leader

[gemmawinegum]

I blame Ed Miliband. If it wasn't for him we would probably have David Miliband as our current PM.

[claig]

David Miliband was a Blairite, the usual stuff. He had no chance, the people have turned against all that stuff. Ed was better than David, but that isn't saying much.

[claig]

Brexit showed us how much the people have changed. the Establishment called upon every Blairite from across the planet to come back and help. From their positions in charidees, they answered the Establishment's call, but the people ignored the lot of them. Their time is over, the people are free. That is why Corbyn is so strongly placed despite all of the BBC, the media and the "magic circle's" tricks.

[gemmawinegum]

David was more centre left than either of these two and also Ed. Labour need to return to the centre left to have any hope of re-election.

[claig]

'Labour need to return to the centre left to have any hope of re-election.'

Centre left is Tory-lite and the members realise that those days are over. Brexit is not centre-left, the rug has been pulled out from under the metropolitans. Centre left accepts the same philosophy as the Tories only it is lighter, Tory-lite. They can't convince the people like that. The only way to win is to change the paradigm, to transform the offer, to create a positive vision and that is what Corbyn will have to try and do. At the moment the 172 refuse to play ball, just as they do over Brexit too, where they want to overturn that too. They think we are still back in the old days, where the metropolitans and the "magic circle" could get them out of evry hole and fool the people, but none of that works any more.

Many of the 172 will probably leave and join and lead charidees, their political career climbing over, and a new set of people who understand the new reality will have to take their place.

[claig]

Andy Burnham was probably the best of them, but he has smelt the coffee and is getting out while the going is good and going for local politics instead. It's over for many of the old lot, the Establishment lot, the people have changed far too much to be fooled by the old lines and spin any more which is why Owen Smith is failing to create a splash despite the help and advice of all the Lords, the Ladies and the luvvies.

[gemmawinegum]

I think its more likely Labour will split. I can't see how Corbyn can form a meaningful shadow cabinet when the majority of his mp's raised a no confidence motion in him. Theres only so many new people Corbyn can bring in before there is no left.

[claig]

That is possible but I doubt it will happen because I don't think the 172 have got the courage to go it alone, because some of the wiser heads among them (very few of them) probably realise that it is over for their type of politics, that the people have changed and can't be conned any longer. They would probably be wipled out if they split, so they will probably stay and sulk and snipe and refuse to work with Corbyn, hoping that at some time in the future, they can find a better candidate to try and topple Corbyn. But after a while, even they will realise that it is over and there will be a flood of CVs to charidees as they rush to get out while they still have some clout.

[gemmawinegum]

Are there any polls since the last election to indicate where labour are currently against the tories? I can't seem to find any on the internet.

[claig]

John Mann would be a good leader but he is not in with the "magic circle" and the Oxbridge teams plus the new membership don't like his style of politics because it is not the usual Labour dogma. The people wouldvote for Mann, but the Establishment as well as the new members wouldn't. So it is Corbyn or bust.