Can Corbyn supporters help me understand re: media bias?(18 Posts)
I'm not a Corbyn supporter but I'm genuinely interested in an argument that has come up again and again.
The argument is that Jeremy Corbyn has been a good leader and has been trying to get his point across but the media have basically been unfair to him, biased and nitpicking and haven't given him (or allowed the GBP to give him) a fair shot.
I think it's pretty obvious that the media have been pretty biased against him. They really, REALLY have. But... what exactly is going to change between now and 2020 to mean that he will be able to get his point across?
In other words, if the media is able to hobble him now, won't they be able to hobble him in 2020? And in pretty much all debates? Even if he is the best possible leader Britain has ever had in theory since the media are going nowhere, isn't it better to get someone else who can "beat" the media or is more acceptable to them?
Basically, most people say they want honesty and complexity and trustworthiness and nuance but do they? Most people fell for the "immigrants are taking your jobs!!!" line on Brexit. The media will always be able to tell people want they want to hear and find someone to blame. Pedophiles, immigrants, whoever. Isn't it better to find someone who accepts this and can lie to people for their own good and beat the media at their own game?
'Isn't it better to find someone who accepts this and can lie to people for their own good and beat the media at their own game?'
Are you saying you want Blair back?
The media that counts is BBC and Channel 4 because everybody watches those, whereas not everybody reads the Daily Mail or the Guradian.
BBC and Channel 4 sell the Establishment line. The only people that are "acceptable" to the media are the ones that do what the Establishment wishes, so Farage and Corbyn fall short.
It is not better to have someone "acceptable to the media" because that will mean they will have to have policies that the Establishment wants and those may not be in the best interests of the people. For example, the Establishment and its media wanted us to stay in the EU, but the people rebelled and said no.
You have to have politicians who reflect the wishes of the people or we might as well give up on democracy and let the Establishment do what they want and have ther media cheerlead for them.
It is not going to be easy for Corbyn against the media, but there is no alternative because the peope are not like the "career politicians" who will do what they Establishment want in order to gain power, the people want their voice and views heard and that is why Corbyn has to continue with his principles.
Couple of things:
1. I think the Daily Mail IS hugely important tbh. Isn't Murdoch mostly working through red top tabloid papers? I think they are more important than the BBC.
2. I don't think that Blair is the only strategic politician in British history. Tories seem pretty good at combining ideology with winning.
3. In terms of media, I don't really agree. Nigel Farage is a great example of someone who is disliked massively by the "Establishment" media but is still hugely successful at manipulating them, even from a small electoral base. He's played them like a fiddle and the public have been on his side against any media attacks. He's won over and over again and the fact that most people incl. the BBC and Channel 4 have done everything to sink him hasn't hurt him.
So why has it hurt Jeremy Corbyn so badly?
I think reflecting the wishes of the people and achieving the wishes of the people are two different things.
'I think the Daily Mail IS hugely important tbh. Isn't Murdoch mostly working through red top tabloid papers? I think they are more important than the BBC.'
Good point. I think the BBC is something that everybody watches almost every day and there is a drip-drip Establishment line fed to them that way. But you are right that Murdoch in particular may have more influence because of his papers ability to challenge the Establishment viewpoint, in the way that the BBC usually wouldn't, if they want to. I think the BBC probably has more influence on the people while Murdoch has more influence on the politicians because of what his papers might say.
' I don't think that Blair is the only strategic politician in British history'
I was concentrating more on the lying rather than strategy.
'He's played them like a fiddle and the public have been on his side against any media attacks. He's won over and over again and the fact that most people incl. the BBC and Channel 4 have done everything to sink him hasn't hurt him.'
He is a brilliant politician and communicator which is why he survived for so long under the most brutal attacks the Establishment whizzkids could dream up, but it has done him immeasurable harm. He is finished, he is "toxic" because of how the Establishment portrayed him.
"Self-styled sophisticates may sneer at Nigel Farage, but in another lifetime he’d have been a Spitfire pilot fighting the Luftwaffe in the Battle of Britain. Most of his critics would have been desk-jockeys in Whitehall or conscientious objectors, if not outright collaborators.
He is a brave man, not only politically, but personally, who has stuck to his convictions in the face of disgusting verbal and physical abuse. Without him, we would never have been in a position to cast off the shackles of Brussels. He deserves a statue in Parliament Square — or a blue plaque outside the Red Lion in Whitehall, at the very least."
He was an exceptional politician, but not good enough to beat them. Trump is an example of someone who could easily beat them, but that is due to the fact that he is a billionaire and doesn't give a flying duck what they try to do to him. That is exceedingly rare.
'So why has it hurt Jeremy Corbyn so badly?'
It hasn't. He is still leader, he will be around long after Farage has gone. He has the largest mandate of any politician in UK history, he has got record Labour membership figures, he beat every stooge that was thrown at him, and he won by-elections and held on in the biggest anti-establishment populist revolution led by UKIP and Brexit etc that this country has ever seen. He is still in the running and if he takes control of his party, the mainstream media and Establishment will not be able to counteract social media and the party activists if Corbyn manages to come up with policies that appeal to the people on the doorstep.
The media doesn't always win. Cameron had most of the media, the entire Establishment and every fat cat and bigwig from Washington to Brussels on his side (apart from Trump, of course), and Cameron and the media still lost to the people in Brexit.
If Corbyn comes up with good policies, there is no way the media can stop him.
Most of the 'new' labour supporters support 'old' labour - the working mans party - as represented by JC. All the politicians who are undermining JC are 'new' labour - metropolitan lefty luvvies. Instead of splitting the party can they not split into two parties. With the swing to the right in TMs government, the demise of the lib dems there is surely space for a third party. UKIP will go with JC, all the retainers will go with New Labour and the tory vote will be reduced - which should please SNP. Why can't something like this happen?
'Why can't something like this happen?'
It may do. Huge changes are likely in the future because the people have rebelled against the Establishment and they have lost control of the people and can't fool them any more with their media.
"From Brexit to Trump, the elites have lost control over politics – and anything could happen now
Mallory Factor KCN is a visiting senior fellow at the University of Oxford and the John C West professor of politics and international relations at The Citadel, South Carolina.
where one sees an abyss, another sees the future stretching out for miles and miles........
Claig is quoting from a Fox news commentator.
Who attended a lower level Ivy league university,
runs his own merchant bank,
is a New York socialite,
tirades against "unions... infiltrating our government and corrupting our political process."
But he's not biased. Nooooooo....
Article, opinion piece, in the Irish Times
Stresses the decline in power of the mainstream corporate media and their ability to influence the people any more
"Jeremy Corbyn will win Labour leadership contest and be prime minister
Social media has undermined power of corporate media to determine election results
It is absolutely obvious that the British corporate media hate Corbyn and everything he stands for and will continue to back the Blairites to the hilt. But the new kid on the block, social media, has undermined their power to determine not just this election, but the general election to come.
All the Tory sabre-rattling brings to mind Christopher Clark’s excellent book The Sleepwalkers, except that in the case of a world war III, there would be no world war IV. Therefore, given the choice between war and the Tories or peace with a Corbyn-led Labour, the British people could give the Labour Party a landslide victory on a par with 1945.
But the Blairite culture is not just restricted to the UK. The Irish Labour Party has also been dominated by it, as witnessed by their total support for water charges, at a time when it was widely believed that it was just a mechanism to ensure its privatisation. "
I agree with the author that Corbyn could win a landslide, but it won't be as certain as the author suggests. The author has left out two factors that have changed the world entirely and which will inevitably change the Tory Party too - Brexit and Trump.
With Brexit, the chances of the EU launching war against Russia have decreased and the sabre-ratlling will abate. With Trump, there will be no chance of any war with Russia. So while Corbyn is on the right side of history, the Tory Party itself will have to change to adapt to the new realities too.
Theresa May may surprise everyone. She is off to a good start getting rid of the Bullingdon Boys and the coterie of Etonians and Cameronians. If May brings in common sense populist UKIP style policies then she will win back the 20% of Tory voters who backed UKIP, so Corbyn is likely to face a tougher opponent than Cameron and his Blairites.
A really thought-provoking OP.
I'm interested in what you say about Farage, the public have been on his side against any media attacks. He's won over and over again and the fact that most people incl. the BBC and Channel 4 have done everything to sink him hasn't hurt him.
I have always thought that establishment/mainstream media attacks on UKIP have had the opposite effect to that which was intended, by reinforcing alienated voters sense that, 'people aren't allowed to say what they think anymore', 'Westminster believes that they're better than us', 'our country is no longer one we recognise', etc. Whenever the media tried to knock him down, Farage could turn to his supporters and say, 'See, I told you they were bullying, snooty, out-of-touch thought-police'...
Whether attacks on Corbyn will have a similar effect remains to be seen. I think that they will. Every attempt the Establishment makes to silence him just reinforces the sense of anger and injustice in the country. And new media means that people can talk about this amongst themselves, we don't need to wait to be drip-fed by the television and tabloids.
Corbyns biggest problem is his own MPs. I think it unlikely that they are affected by the media to a huge extent.
Corbyn can blame the media for not reporting him as much as he likes, if he doesn't actually do something to sort this out he's less than useless. But he comes across as someone who thinks his own integrity is the only thing that matters, and that he is more important than the party. He's wrong on both counts. What's the point of having an apparently great message if it's not reaching people? And I do think he himself is partly to blame, though I agree there is bias against him.
OP, just Google Seamus Milne. He is a Stalin sympathiser who Corbyn hired to be his chief spin doctor. Milne is officially on secondment from the Guardian, but even his colleagues there don't have a good word about him. He has done a terrible job of spin doctoring by any standards. However Corbyn's inner circle don't actually care what the mainstream media says about him as they are more interested in being an extreme left wing protest group than getting elected.
I think there was bias against him from the off. I remember throughout the leadership campaign the Guardian of all organs unleashed a barrage of anti-Corbyn articles to the tune of one a day - from staffers and various Labour grandees. There was very much a foregone conclusion that a left-wing Labour leader would be a disaster and had to be brought down at all costs. Predominantly the media class loathed Corbyn.
However, just because there was bias and some of it was hysterical nonsense, it does not mean some of the criticism us valid. He is politically inept; he has associated with some very dubious people (albeit I should think out of naivety), and he seems incapble of conveying his message beyond a select group of acolytes.
He does talk some sense, but his ideological puritanism and inability to do Realpolitik means he is leading a personality cult rather than an electable political party.
So if it's the media who are to blame then the shadow cabinet and MPs who have stated their complete lack of faith in his leadership have nothing to do with it!
H😅😅😅😅😅😅😅you Lefties sound exactly like the UKIP
People the medja are out to get me what the whole media the whole of radio the guardian 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
It's so funny you literally can't see these momentum and UKIP are two side of the same coin i rember James o Brian from lbc who,also thinks jc is a twat says the only trolling he gets is from UKIP supports and momentum types
Somthing to think about
I am a Tory supporter I say long live jc as labour leader but tbh it's just embrassing it's like watching a boxing match between David haye and my 70 year old dad he's just not strong or effective enough
Also I rember the loon abott moaning about the media not allowing jc to have a platform after the Brexit vote
Peirs Morgan then pointed out the had tried 6 Diffrent times to get him on
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