Mr Moderniser is back

(44 Posts)
claig Mon 18-May-15 23:48:28

Steve Hilton is back in town. He's got a new book outcalled "More Human". It's radical, it's blue-sky thinking, it's progressive, it's modernising, it's positively Cameroonian.

He does make some good points and does tap into an understanding of our elites. It is good that he does think outside of the box. He has analysed our elite ruling class well and its effect on our democracy, but does he have the correct solutions? Will it be modernising nanny state where PPEs control the minimum price of our alcohol or will it be freedom?

The article below doesn't mention that the cosy elite who rule us are Oxbridge and often PPE, but maybe the book does that. He is of course Oxford PPE himself.

"We're ruled by a cosy elite who all go to the same dinner parties, says former No10 policy guru chief Steve Hilton
...
'It is a democracy in name only, operating on behalf of a tiny elite no matter the electoral outcome. I know because I was part of it.’

Mr Hilton has now called for reform. He added: ‘While there is no conspiracy ... the assumptions, the structures, the rules that govern our lives are not subject to anything as unpredictable as the will of the people. No wonder voters feel that others’ voices are being heard more than their own. It’s because it’s true.’

He added: ‘From the rise of the Tea Party and Occupy movements to the protest parties in Europe, Ukip and the nearly successful vote for Scottish independence, it’s clear that our political systems – in the UK, America and continental Europe – are not translating people’s wishes into action.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3085342/Stop-listening-insular-ruling-elite-help-poor-Cameron-s-ex-guru-Steve-Hilton-warns-Tory-PM.html

He wants a living wage and like all progressive, he wants a mayor in every city. If his ideas are adopted, then Labour will have nothing left, because he is more progressive than them.

Te Tories may adopt modernisation-a-go-go and progressive policies like never seen before - nanny state, charidees, rooftop wind turbine grants for every home, third sector, fourth sector, fifth sector, it may never end.

No wonder the Tories want Farage to stop telling the truth and want to tame him down, they know that UKIP is the only common sense, non-modernising party left. We are in for 5 years of fun where UKIP has the modernisers on the run.

Isitmebut Tue 19-May-15 00:18:39

Congrats on so many of your lame labels on one OP.

As to "No wonder the Tories want Farage to stop telling the truth and want to tame him down,"

NEWSFLASH; its UKIPs only MP Carswell that wants Farage to tone it down - and as pointed out elsewhere, only UKIP can have a back bench rebellion with ONE MP.

As to all those in Europe that drifted to far left and far right parties promising their citizens magic pain free solutions they have not been able to deliver, how did that work out so far - as NONE of them there (or here) actually have any better solutions than competently working through the problems.

claig Tue 19-May-15 09:06:44

Ian Birrell, the progressive who writes for the Daily Mail and is one of Cameron's friends, was on Radio 4 just now. He says the Tories now have the chance to be a real modern progressive liberal force.

UKIP votes will skyrocket, UKIP will be the only real opposition to the W1A Oxbridge pubic school progressrives. They will hope that the tiny band of ex-Tory progressives within UKIP will topple and gag Farage, because Farage is their nemesis and if he is allowed to speak the truth, if he takes the gloves off, then they know their whole progressive game is up.

Isitmebut Tue 19-May-15 09:46:59

Claig ..... again with the labels that mean sod all to a jam tart to anyone here, never mind enlighten us on any representative in the Westminster parliaments prerequisite abilities to do the job of any MP, never mind Minister, within a very complex 21st century and so many different needs.

I know you think that some sort of 'selection' is necessary, and in UKIPs case, it was find the meanest village idiots and Tory rejects they could find - but just like those within Labour, some within UKIP believe that they have to move more to the centre ground to gain more electoral support - but clearly from a different direction.

Having a PPE should no more exclude an MP from doing what is right in a nations interest, than being an ex ships bar steward or ex postman - as every organization needs different skills/opinions to grow - but they need something extra to analyse (and battle if necessary) the 'Yes Minister' civil service journeymen not wanting change. IMO

claig Tue 19-May-15 09:47:49

Here is The Guardian's Michael White's criticism of Steve Hilton's blue-sky revolutionary progressive modernising thinking

“Rethink everything,” says Hilton. This is hard when everything we do can be monitored by the very interests we may want to challenge.

So it will take bigger, tougher government than Hilton envisages to keep the tech giants in their place on our behalf. Not so much big society as Big Brother. Standing for the local council is a fine thing, but it’s not quite up to the task.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/18/steve-hilton-localism-big-society-government

It may take a nanny state, a W1A state that sets the minimum price of alcohol, that bans 2-for-1s in supermarkets, that bans smoking in parks, a clique of public school Oxbridge graduates that increasingly controls the proles. The brightest teenage spin doctors from Oxbridge will tell the proles that "war is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength". The Big Brother state will have a Big Society for its charidee softer caring side because Big Brother loves you, Big Brother "cares".

Who will counter it, who will tell the truth, who will stand for freedom, who will stand for the proles, who will say the emperor has no clothes?

It will be a man with a fag and pint and they will plot to topple him, plot to gag him, call him toxic for telling the truth, tell him to take a break, take a holiday because he needs it and they need it more. Will he win? Are you kidding, he'll wipe the floor.

claig Tue 19-May-15 09:56:20

They'll say to the man with a fag and a pint, you've had your Referendum and now you've lost so why don't you just bugger off and let us Oxbridge types continue with the game.

But they don't understand that the man with a fag and a pint is about more than just being against the EU. He is for the people, for the people's revolution, for the many not the few.

Isitmebut Tue 19-May-15 10:12:44

Claig ... forgive me from deflating this whole line of thought, but is Steve Hilton in the Conservative government now or just (another, albeit one man) 'think tank'?

Furthermore, having 'a fag and a pint' only gets a politician so far when the government of the day is failing to come up with answers, so when they are, it is only the opposition parties that seriously need to worry in between elections.

An example would be women, many of whom have bad memories of self opinionated men with fags and pints spending too much time down the pub, and also happen to think Farage looks like 'the wide mouthed frog' from the frog and lion joke - the difference between coming 2nd in over 120 seats, rather than first. IMO.

Isitmebut Tue 19-May-15 10:16:50

P.S. That paragraph starting "It may take a nanny State...." in electoral man-on-the-street terms, is micro policy bollocks, try that in the 'Dog and Duck' and they'll tell you to F.R.O.

claig Tue 19-May-15 10:28:09

We don't know whether Steve Hilton, Mr Moderniser, still has Cameron's ear.

Steve Hilton does a valuable role in thinking, challenging and asking questions. But does he come up with the correct answers? Is modernisation and progressive liberalism with a mayor in every city the answer to our problems or may it be too revolutioanry, may it destroy conservatism and eventually lead to a curb on freedom as Michael White suggests? Will it lead to the rise of a common sense revolution led by a man with a fag and a pint?

The answer to our problems is proportional representation where the people can decide instead of a W1A clique of Oxbridge graduates who think they know what is best for the people in a nanny state world where they don't ask the people what they want.

They tried to topple the man with a fag and a pint, they told him to take a hike, take a break they called it. They wanted him to give them a break. But he wasn't going anywhere, he was right in the thick of it again yesterday, at the front, taking it to them, calling for electoral reform for the people.

"Ukip, Lib Dems, Greens, SNP and Plaid Cymru sign 478,000-strong petition for voting reform"

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/generalelection/ukip-lib-dems-greens-snp-and-plaid-cymru-sign-478000strong-petition-for-voting-reform-10259079.html

claig Tue 19-May-15 10:31:36

'try that in the 'Dog and Duck' and they'll tell you to F.R.O.'

I heard it in the Dog and Duck and I agreed with it. In the Dg and Duck, they said "we need a common sense revolution, a people's revolution and by the way who's getting the next round of drinks in?"

Cheers to that I said, but I'm skint, they banned my 2-for-1s in Sainsburys, so money is getting tight, it just ain't right what that Oxbridge lot do.

Isitmebut Tue 19-May-15 10:51:34

What the people in the street want, is answers/solutions, and in the main have clearly rejected unspecified 'change' as a solution offered by those parties with no clue how to run an economy.

Why should the electoral system change if that is the other alternative bordering on chaos; the Lib Dems suffered from FPTP for years, then with credibility gained Westminster seats, so do not confuse the worst recession in over 80-years 'protest votes' with unspecified 'change' credibility.

Citizens basically want for them and theirs more homes, more jobs, sustainable and very good public services, less taxes and a chance to grow/improve on their current situation - but they will always be impatient and blame those in power for the incompetence of previous administrations.

If no coalition of numb-nut factions by definitions can ever be competent as pulling in too many directions e.g. a balance budget vs shed loads of national debt, how can it end well for the citizens?

Maybe when most of the small parties have a 'Labour moment' and finally understand an economy cannot borrow and tax its way to sustainable growth, and somehow sit a in government competence test other countries have gained from coalition experience - it might be worth the 'change' so many smaller parties offer, but usually never specify, on purpose.

Pantone363 Tue 19-May-15 10:53:45

Why don't you two just Whatsapp each other?

Isitmebut Tue 19-May-15 10:58:06

Claig ..... "A common sense revolution", how the feck does that provide for them and theirs???

Where is your Dog Duck, in Tooting, next to the offices of the Tooting Popular Front offices, run by the citizen ‘Wolfie’ Smith?

claig Tue 19-May-15 11:32:08

'Why don't you two just Whatsapp each other?'

What's that? That's something the Westminster bubble use on their Blueberries in order to keep on message isn't it? That new fangled stuff hasn't reached the Dog and Duck yet, we're still trying to get our head around emails and why there was talk abut bannng our 2-for-1s.

"Ukip voters feel disconnected because they can't send emails, Chuka Umunna says

Labour's shadow business secretary says 'a lot' of people who voted for Ukip 'can't do things like' sending and receiving emails and browsing the internet"

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/10918012/Ukip-voters-feel-disconnected-because-they-cant-send-emails-Chuka-Umunna-says.html

claig Tue 19-May-15 11:53:48

This is a conversation I overheard at the grocery store

"Packet of Rothmans and a 2-for-1 please"

"2-for-1?, I'm not sure if that's allowed anymore, they may have banned them, let me check the regulations. It will take a while, it's about 500 pages thick. I hope you're not going to the park to smoke the Rothmans, I'm not sure that is allowed. The regulations keep getting updated, I can't keep up with what we're not allowed to do"

"Who's they? Do you mean the EU?"

"No, Oxbridge types"

"Not them again!"

"Have you 'erd the news? Steve Hilton's back"

"Gawd help us, Mr Moderniser, you mean?"

"That's him."

"No wonder everyone at the og and Duck said they voted common sense, they voted Farage"

"Me too, but what good did it do us? Nearly 4 million votes and just 1 seat and the ex-Tory in that seat is telling Farage to go and have a break and he is being called toxic for telling the truth. Some thin-skinned, snarling, aggressive Cambridge bloke even called Farage names."

"Sacrilege! No respect, no common sense, that's the problem"

claig Tue 19-May-15 12:10:31

The conversaton continued and became more political

"Here, have you seen this, listen to what Steve Hilton said
"We're ruled by a cosy elite who all go to the same dinner parties"

"Yeah, well tell us something we don't already know. That's why we voted Farage."

"He goes on.
'It is a democracy in name only, operating on behalf of a tiny elite no matter the electoral outcome. I know because I was part of it.’

"Of course it is. 4 million votes and 1 poxy seat and they tell Farage he needs a break."

"And this is the best bit.
‘While there is no conspiracy...."

"Yeah, next they'll tell us that Farage is toxic"

"Aye, I expect they will, I expect they will."

Isitmebut Tue 19-May-15 12:14:07

Claig ... making up Conservative scenarios based on nothing, it the first sign of political madness.

Conversations with yourself ON made up scenarios, just makes you appear a sandwich short of a picnic.

Get a grip.

ouryve Tue 19-May-15 12:15:25

Whatsapp, Pantone? They need to get a room.

Isitmebut Tue 19-May-15 12:27:05

..or find a POLITICS board somewhere......wait, this IS a politics board, maybe just not yours - so suck it up.

grimbletart Tue 19-May-15 18:32:46

Interview with Steve Hilton on Newsnight last night.
www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b05w96jz/newsnight-18052015

About 14 minutes into the programme

Linguini Tue 19-May-15 20:23:32

"The Establishment"
Owen Jones.

claig Tue 19-May-15 21:02:29

Hilton sounds like a nice guy who is trying to fix things. But I think he is progressive pie-in-the-sky, not grounded common sense.

Here is an interview with Anne McElvoy in the Standard. I think he probably won't be the mainstream of Tory thought anymore because Cameron has UKIP on his tail and much as he would like to hug huskies, that doesn't win votes.

Hilton is against PISA school testing and seems to not be fully onboard with Gove's educational testing and standards etc. He is against most forms of centralisation and believes in competing decentralised forces. This ties in with the whole Tory mayor type progressive policy.

www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/london-life/steve-hilton-on-the-lessons-hes-learnt-in-silicon-valley-10260652.html

If all this stuff was implemented, it would lead to problems, I think. comepeting decentralsed forces would slow down progress and disrupt plans. The emphasis on solving poverty etc is a progressive Labour type policy and would be expensive and divert resources and focus from growing the economy and helping the squeezed middle and would end up losing votes just as Labour lost votes by its over-emphasis on welfare rather than aspiration.

But Cameron has learned from this election, he understands that the "fruitcakes" took 13% of the vote and could easily take more now that Farage has defeated the attempted coup against him.

Cameron has changed strategy. He is going to transform the Tory Party into the Workers' Party.

"David Cameron should think about formally renaming the Tories ‘The Workers’ Party’ – and adopt the ladder as its new logo, his new deputy chairman insisted.
....
That means turning the Conservatives into “the modern trade union movement for working people”.
...
“The Prime Minister wants me to spread the message up and down the country that we are the party of working people now.
...
With deadly seriousness, Mr Halfon addded: “If he really wants to help the workers, Len McCluskey should join the Tories”.

The prize, he hints, is locking Labour out of power forever.

“When we knock on people’s doors, I want people to know we are on their side – on the side of the workers, that we are the workers,” Mr Halfon insisted.

www.sunnation.co.uk/tory-deputy-chairman-we-are-the-workers-party/

It's bad news for Labour, because the progressive Oxbridge PPEs in Labour will have nowhere to go. The progressive Oxbridge PPEs in the Conservative Party are as progressive as Labour, want as much if not more decentralisation and mayors as Labour and now want to steal their worker clothes.

The one weakness in the Tory strategy is that they may concentrate on the poor and ignore the squeezed middle and core Tory voters and their continuing political correctness may drive Tories to UKIP. As all the established parties become progressive and move to the left, they leave room for a common sense party on the right.

They'll call Farage thin-skinned, they'll call him snarling, they'll call him aggressive because they know he is up for the fight. They wanted him out, they thought he had resigned but he's back and the game is on.

claig Tue 19-May-15 21:34:11

What sums up both Labour and Conservative is a lack of confidence, even disintegration and inability to win over mass popular support anymore.

Our Oxbridge political class seems to have lost confidence, it doesn't know what to do, it is giving away power, decentralising it because it has run out of ideas. The SNP has got power and they said they would try to end austerity on what represents a small percentage vote. Power has gone from the centre and has been diffused to forces that can challenge the centre. More decentralisation, more mayors will only lead to further battles against the centre.

Our governing Oxbridge political class have lost touch, they no longer have big plans, even their misguided Big Society went down the pan. They are left to tinker with our PMQs which they all agree is beastly, they are subject to Brussels and so they are left with trying to ban our 2-for-1s, trying to ban smoking in parks etc.

Steve Hilton's book is called "More Human". Some reports say that it was initially going to be called "Rethink Everything". That repesents what is happening, nothing is as it was, everything is up for grabs. Rethink everyting, even tried and tested common sense that has worked for years.

All they can do now is to try to change their spots. The Tories rebranded as modernisers, but that was a disaster and they had to stop that for the election. Now they want to rebrand as a workers' party. Labour don't know what to do or whom to elect as leader and they want non Labour Party members to tell them whom the public would like as leader, rather than decding on what they themselves would like.

The result of their collective collapse in confidence and their divorce fom the people is that a party that just 5 years ago was a fringe of so-called "fruitcakes" has taken the wind out of their collective sails.

They call Farage "snarling", but it's just them howling, knowing that the game is up.

claig Wed 20-May-15 10:00:22

Owen Jones on Steve Hilton in the Guardian

The left should embrace all allies – even architects of austerity – in the fight to expose our cliquey elites
..
He refers to both Occupy Wall Street and the Tea Party movement as symptoms of popular disapproval with an elite that is – to coin a phrase – all in it together.
...
“The corporate bosses, the MPs, the journalists … all go to the same dinner parties and social events; all live near one another; all send their children to the same schools,” cries comrade Hilton. He has a point. The talented former Telegraph deputy editor Benedict Brogan – sadly now purged – told me of journalists (whose theoretical job is to challenge those with political power) dinner-partying, drinking and going on holiday with MPs – or even becoming godparents to their children.
...
David Cameron, Boris Johnson, George Osborne: all recruited their spinners from that supposed hotbed of pinko leftiness the BBC
...
The likes of Alan Milburn can become health secretary, guardian of Labour’s most treasured institution, the NHS, but upon stepping down rake in lucrative sums as a consultant for private healthcare firms. He then savages Labour’s policies on the NHS. It is a reminder that the real threat to democracy comes from above.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/20/steve-hilton-privilege-chumocracy-left-elite

claig Wed 20-May-15 10:08:51

Iain Dale on Steve Hilton's book

"Were I a Labour leadership candidate, I’d put this book on my summer reading list and fillet it for good ideas, of which there are many. Actually, anyone interested in democracy, in reform, and in challenging conventional thought and how individuals can make a difference ought to read this book."

www.conservativehome.com/platform/2015/05/iain-dale-hiltons-new-book-a-talking-point-for-the-elites-i-hope-not-its-better-than-that.html

I think it shows that our elite are all progressives now.

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