Help - tempted to vote Tory, against my long held values! Convince me otherwise!

(136 Posts)
Mamushka Wed 18-Mar-15 16:15:15

Right, excuse my poor understanding of politics, I'm just after some friendly advice.

I'm from a working class family who would rather die than vote Tory. I've done well in life and now have a much better career than my parents ever had, but still I've always been a bit of a Guardian reading lefty who also hated the Tories. I sort of used to be a Lib Dem, but since the big tuition fees betrayal I've been flitting between Greens and Labour.

However I am getting this horrible niggling feeling that perhaps the Tories have done a half decent job... Unemployment down, taxes down, hopefully reducing inheritance tax, "bedroom tax", extended help to buy, all good stuff IMHO.

But theres a lot of stuff I don't agree with:
- Not impressed at the way the NHS is going
- Not happy about sale of Royal Mail
- Corporate tax dodgers not dealt with
- David Cameron is a slimy twat
Er, thought there was more but can't think of any other points.

Anyway, please convince me to vote for a different party. I'm rather fond of the Greens but isnt it a wasted vote? Miliband seems a bit limp. Lib Dems not to be trusted anymore after Cleggs big fat porky pies last time. UKIP is a massive no no for me and I'd happily punch Farage in the face if I were allowed to... So who do I vote for?

TywysogesGymraeg Wed 18-Mar-15 16:17:17

Hi for it! You won't regret it and you know it's the right thing to do

richthegreatcornholio Wed 18-Mar-15 16:17:29

Do it, they've been doing a great job!

Iggly Wed 18-Mar-15 16:19:55

Well it depends on whether you give a shit about those who are less fortunate.

Read up on DWP atos assessments.

Do you want an NHS in the next five years?

That's enough not to vote Tory. You can choose to spoil your paper if you don't like any option.

Samcro Wed 18-Mar-15 16:21:28

vote for them and then just hope you don;t become disabled at some point.

BackCrackAndNappySack Wed 18-Mar-15 16:25:22

Why do you need convincing otherwise? I assume you are of reasonable intelligence. If your gut tells you that you should vote a certain way then perhaps you should listen to your gut.

There's nothing more ridiculous than someone who blindly votes exactly the same way in every single election without ever questioning whether it makes sense to them in that election, at that time.

Honeypot1 Wed 18-Mar-15 16:52:15

Along with NHS consider policing cuts too. But I'm in the same boat as you.

Imagine what they would have done without Clegg to keep Iggle Piggle Cameron restrained?!!!

Unemployment down - this is mainly due to the economy coming out from recession, a process that might have happened quicker had it not been for Osborne's cuts. Also, zero-hours contracts... not sure if you are familiar with these but they are an absolute scandal.

Taxes down - you mean the Lib Dem policy, raising the income tax threshold?

Reducing inheritance tax - TBH, of any time in my life the government wants to take my money, after I'm dead is probably the best.

Presumably at some point, you hated the Tories because you felt they ran the country for the benefit of the rich, and screwed over the poor/disabled/elderly? Not sure what has changed, even from your list. The 'triple lock' on pensions is working out well for pensioners, but again that was a Lib Dem policy.

Mamushka Wed 18-Mar-15 17:30:25

Presumably at some point, you hated the Tories because you felt they ran the country for the benefit of the rich, and screwed over the poor/disabled/elderly?

Yes, you've hit the nail on the head there. Agree about the coming out of recession thing too, same way I don't believe you can blame a single party or leader for an entire nation going into recession. Out of curiosity may I ask who will you be voting for BoulevardOfBrokenSleep?

lightgreenglass Wed 18-Mar-15 17:38:04

If you believe in the privatisation of the NHS and education, vote Tory.

If you believe in penalising the poor and disabled and giving wealthy people tax breaks, vote Tory.

I for one don't so will not be voting for them.

Unemployment might be down but wages are still low as shown by poor tax revenues and most of those jobs are part time jobs.

crappyday Wed 18-Mar-15 18:40:31

Why don't you see if there are any hustings happening in your area, then go along and listen to the candidates?
It might help you to make up your mind.

blacksunday Wed 18-Mar-15 19:07:02

>However I am getting this horrible niggling feeling that perhaps the Tories have done a half decent job... Unemployment down, taxes down, hopefully reducing inheritance tax, "bedroom tax", extended help to buy, all good stuff IMHO.

* Unemployment is nominally down because, although job opportunities haven't improved much, people are taking on low-paid, part-time jobs, or classifying themselves as 'self-employed'. There are many people now on 'zero-hour' contracts - meaning they have no security and no steady income, but are officially counted as unemployed.

* The raise in income tax threshold is derisory, to be honest. Raising the threshold slightly is not a very good way of putting money in to the pockets of the working poor.

www.independent.co.uk/money/tax/autumn-statement-income-tax-changes-wont-help-working-poor-9901680.html

* I'm not sure reducing inheritance tax is a good thing. The Tories like to talk a lot of Capitalism being a meritocracy, but when social mobility is so low (like it is in the UK) and parents can pass on most of their wealth to their children, you end up with family dynasties.

* The "Bedroom Tax" has been an utter failure. It has failed to get most of the people it was intended to to move out of their homes, and many of those who have moved haven't found suitable accommodation in which to live.

www.theguardian.com/society/2014/mar/28/bedroom-tax-failed-overcrowding-savings

* 'Extended help to buy' may appear attractive, unfortunately, it doesn't address the society wide problem of there not being enough houses. Getting help to buy will only further push up house prices. The Tories have failed to build enough houses for the current population, let alone the growing population because doing so would stabilize house prices, which is not popular with Daily Mail readers.

blacksunday Wed 18-Mar-15 19:12:40

But really, if you want to vote for the party of sociopaths, then go ahead.

Since 2010, we have seen a massive increase in the number of families using food banks. A further increase in wealth inequality. Attacks on civil rights and liberties, including access to legal counsel.

Britain is leading the charge against basic human rights, Amnesty claims

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/britain-is-leading-the-charge-against-basic-human-rights-amnesty-claims-10067989.html

Access to education is being attacked, via the abolishment of the Education Maintenance Allowance (EMA).

Privitisation of the NHS. Sure Start centres closed.

Here are a few more:

The pre-election pledges that the Tories are trying to wipe from the internet

"No frontline cuts", "no top-down NHS reorganisations", "no VAT rise" - why the Conservatives are trying to erase all pre-May 2010 speeches and press releases from the internet.

www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/11/pre-election-pledges-tories-are-trying-wipe-internet

blacksunday Wed 18-Mar-15 19:16:16

Mamushka-

Please think strongly about what kind of society you want to be in.

If you vote Tory, then I hope you never end up poor, destitute, disabled, ill, unable to work, or require legal counsel which you can't pay for privately, because the Tories don't care about who isn't rich and can afford to pay for everything themselves.

peggyundercrackers Wed 18-Mar-15 19:18:06

nHS privatisation has slowed down under Tories, labour brought in something like 400billion pounds of private money into the nhs and it all needs paid back with lots and lots of interest which will take years and years to pay back.

I'm voting Lib Dem. The student fee thing was bad... But do you remember the last few days before the 2010 election; the right-wing papers were howling about how a hung parliament would DOOM US ALL and we'd lose our AAA credit rating? The coalition negotiations had to be pretty swift and brutal.

I mean, I'm pretty sure that if an LD government had been elected (ahem grin), Clegg wouldn't have turned round and said, 'Oh yeah, we were just joking about the fees, soz!'
...not like Cameron did with his 'no more top-down reorganization of the NHS', and then managing to do exactly that with hardly anybody noticing/remembering/caring hmm Funny old world.

(We lost the AAA credit rating in 2013 IIRC)

MissMuffetisin Wed 18-Mar-15 19:28:06

Social care has been decimated, the Nhs is being cut through not replacing staff on top of cut backs, there is a massive shortage of affordable homes or rented accommodation ( they weren't allowed to replace the council houses Thatcher sold. Where we live unemployment is still bad - I'm the only member of my family of five adults who hasn't had an extended period out of work in the past 4 years, and the job centres haven't helped one of them find work - just interested in collecting stats and finding an excuse to stop benefits that week - once because someone tried to change sign on day for an interview.
I am ashamed of the society we live in. I used to vote lib dem - never again, they sold out and allowed the Tories to create the uncaring society.

Justgetthruthegoddamday Wed 18-Mar-15 19:46:25

I'm voting for the Liberal Democrats and I want another coalition with either the Tories or Labour. I like coalition government and I've been glad to see the back of left-right-left-right pendulum politics. It seems a grown up way of doing things-groups of ministers coming from different ideological backgrounds debating policies and coming to a compromise in the interests of the country.I think the LDs have kept a check on on the right wing excesses of the Tory backbenchers. Yes-the LDs reneged on tuition fees but I understand that this has not impacted on the number of those entering higher education and it really is a graduate tax on those who research show will have the greater earning potential a degree confers.
AND if none of this were true-the money and focus the Lib Dems have got for mental health services for children is reason enough to vote for them.

P.S. If anyone reading is as nerdy about politics as me, there's an interesting* examination of how of the Health And Social Care Act came to be written, amended and finally passed here: www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/sites/default/files/publications/Never%20again_0.pdf

*Your definition of 'interesting' may vary.

TheHouseofMirth Wed 18-Mar-15 19:55:19

They have just produced a very clever and quite nasty budget. Basically, they could have used the extra and unexpected governmental income to reduce some of the swingeing cuts which are are already having a negative impact on the NHS and social services and which will only be getting worse over the next few years but instead they have used it for fairly meaningless tax cuts which any subsequent party in government will have hard time reversing because they will be seen to be taking money away from "hard-working familes".

OhMrGove Wed 18-Mar-15 20:00:58

"swingeing cuts" my arse.

Vote Tory OP.

ToffeeLatteplease Wed 18-Mar-15 20:03:08

I am in the opposite situation.

I have witnessed the hell of zero or low hour contracts. No job security, never being able to ask for a day off because you won't be paid for it and you'll be "punished" with no hours the next week. earning significantly less than on benefits but refusing to claim any top up benefits because you don't want to go through the shaming at the Job centre

That is how unemployment has "gone down". Oh yes the benefit bill has gone down, but at what cost?

People with disabilities, mental health issues and caring for those in need sanctioned and losing their benefits.

I have lost friends because I care for DS who has complex needs and so am on benefits. Nowadays my middle class friends feel free to judge me because they "work" and I "don't". The horrendous us and them culture has become so widespread and oozed out of every word David Cameron says.

Yes I am impressed with what the Conservatives have done for the economy but at what cost

TheHouseofMirth Wed 18-Mar-15 21:14:55

OhMrGove I am assuming you have very little current personal experience of the NHS or Social Services?

OhMrGove Wed 18-Mar-15 22:03:18

HouseofMirth - I work for the NHS and deal with social services via work.

TheHouseofMirth Wed 18-Mar-15 22:22:21

I also work within the NHS and have several friends who are Social Workers and friends who have children with physical disabilities and children with mental health issues and the lack of investment is clearly evident to all of us both personally and professionally.

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