Could Sajid Javid unite the Conservative Party and Ukip.

(18 Posts)
motown3000 Mon 31-Mar-14 22:29:52

I am interested in Javid, and believe he could Unite Ukip And the Conservative party.

Claig . Will be aware he was anti ERM in 1992, so obviously is not the biggest supporter of Europe.

Isit . Javid would be perfect as leader, as his background is very modest. Went to Rubbish Comprehensive school in Bristol , School wanted him to study CSEs . father came to the UK, from Pakistan with nothing. "Bullied" at school made good "City" boy from Modest Background, anti Multi Culture.

his Children go to Private Schools, so is pro selection ( possible Grammar schools).

Sajid Javid Could be the right man to take this country forward.

It would be brilliant to be able say to Milliband "Your Comp was better than mine"

claig Mon 31-Mar-14 23:30:24

He is good. He is clever, speaks well etc.
I have seen him several times on the Daily Politics etc
But I don't think UKIP and the Tories can be united.

I don't think the Conservatives will ever leave Europe. I don't think they will be allowed to.

But there is one fundamental difference between UKIP and the Tories and that is this intangible issue of "political correctness".

The Tories can never be "politically incorrect" because there are too many spinners in the party trying to drive the message, and to get on in the party, leading figures have to follow the spiel.

Even their whole slogan is pure spin
"vote blue, go green"

That is the total opposite of UKIP.
Nothing can bridge this divide, because it is the divide between spin and truth.

Isitmebut Tue 01-Apr-14 11:17:46

motown….please tell me that you got the time release on your post wrong, by around 1 ½ hours.

Straight off I get the feeling that forget the difference in ideologies, you appear to be saying that being dumber than Miliband is more important than the policies.

May I just point out that in the Blair/Brown mainly private school administration, they had in very senior positions an ex ships steward (Prescott) and an ex postman (Johnson), apart from the latter appearing to be a very nice bloke, can we honestly say their modest backgrounds/education ‘enriched’ this nation?

Alan Johnson in a Shadow position post crash, with a £150 billion annual budget deficit, was seen to be a potential Labour Chancellor, reading ‘Economics for Dummies’ on the way to work every morning, Did you sleep easier thinking that in 5-years an ex postman, however nice, had the complex answers to a complex country economic/debt problem?

Now re Mr Javid, I’m not sure that HE was brought up in a council home, but this white C.O.E. cookie had a similar background to him, but does THIS opinionated prairie-hat think that I had/have the qualities and education to lead this nation in complex times, no I don’t.

And by the way, to make it clear, I am not anti multi cultural, far from it as I spent my working life in a multi culture environment, with foreign clients, visiting many countries. MY objection to UK immigration in the 2000’s was it was both political and without preparation, there was no time to absorb that sheer level, without negative ONGOING consequences to the indigenous population.

So let me cut to the chase re the point of this thread, personally after a long line of post Thatcher ‘competent’ leaders, that usually did not overly impress me as a leader and/or future P.M.(and clearly I was not alone), I believe Cameron is a very good leader and P.M.

Personally I don’t care if he, or others making complex decisions went to Eaton. The rebalancing of an economy that was heading for a disaster, while trying to reduce the annual deficit AND try and put money back in peoples pockets to cope with the negative affect of earnings, in EVERY recession, takes bright people.

Do you ever hear the media go on in America because their President went to Princeton, Harvard, or M.I.T. and is therefore not equipped in life to make to right decisions for the whole country?

No you don’t, and that is because they want the brightest people running the country and intellectually equipped to come up with huge important solutions in an emergency, to sometimes override career civil servants who don’t think outside the box i.e. Fed Chairman Bernanke who dramatically increased the size and options of the Fed ‘tool box’ and Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson who rescued the financial system _WITHOUT nationalising U.S. banks.

Those in the Conservative Party need to just suck it up and accept that whether a woman or old Etonian, those senior politicians have to work twice as hard to be accepted by the public as being competent. Especially when taking over an economic basket case, and making the unpopular decisions other politicians who knew they had to be done, but didn’t have the political guts to address, BECAUSE they knew they’d be unpopular.

Non Eatonian Osbourne’s chancellorship will be judged by history to have been very good and although he would not have got every decision right, no one ever does whether under pressure or not, maybe one day we’ll see how many of those came from career civil servants at the Treasury.

If anyone thinks the lesser educated ‘post-man of the people’ Alan Johnson could have been a better chancellor, there is still time to prise him off the This Week couch for 2015, as I understand that Mr Miliband has a vacancy.

motown3000 Tue 01-Apr-14 12:09:39

Isit. You know as well as I do that " Image"and perception is vital in politics. However, Sajid Javid is also an exceptional person , rejected by the City because of his "Background". He went off to New York, by the age of 25 was the Youngest Vice President at in the history of Chase Manhattan Bank . He predicted the mess that ERM would as a young man of 22 in 1992. He is obviously not a Europhile that is a bonus.

I know as we all do that to achieve what he has from a poor Bristol Comprehensive and FE College in Stroud,before Exeter University that he has to be an extremely gifted man.

If UKIP and The Conservatives continue this bickering, the "Equivalent" of Militant Tendency to Labour in the 1980s. It will not matter that Milliband is looking less serious each day, we will still have a Labour Majority Government.

I did not watch the show on "Nigel Farage" , so can't comment on how he came across.

claig Tue 01-Apr-14 12:28:47

motown3000, the UKIP TV show will probably already be on youtube.

'Do you ever hear the media go on in America because their President went to Princeton, Harvard, or M.I.T. and is therefore not equipped in life to make to right decisions for the whole country?

Yes, it is exactly the same as here. There is great public distrust of the Harvard liberal elite and they often don't go down well with ordinary voters and are seen as "out of touch".

"Republican voters are unwilling to accept Mitt Romney as their nominee. While Romney has considerable political experience and remains the strongest threat to President Obama this fall, he has failed to charm the base. Romney’s image is at the core of this problem: Harvard and Massachusetts, long associated with liberal elites, are not popular attributes , particularly in the eyes of Tea Party members. Yet, Romney graduated from Harvard’s Law and Business Schools and served as Governor of Massachusetts.

These connections have reinforced the perception that Romney is out of touch with ordinary Americans . Romney has attempted to distance himself from Harvard and cast himself as the conservative standard-bearer during the campaign with mixed results. The right’s perception of Romney as disconnected will continue to haunt him throughout the nominating process, but it is unlikely that this would harm him significantly among Republican voters in the general election"

harvardpolitics.com/united-states/mitt-romneys-harvard-problem/

"Mitt Romney is the archetypal Harvard alum. He went there for law school and business school. After graduating he joined the Boston Consulting Group, which heavily recruits Harvard MBAs. He went on to amass a fortune through consulting and private equity work in the Boston area.

As Benjy Sarlin notes in TPM, “Three of his sons attended Harvard and he has donated over $50,000 to the university. His campaign lists over a dozen advisers with Harvard ties.” Romney has also publicly sung Harvard’s praises. With his stiffly coiffed hair and habit of using awkward jargon, Romney is the epitome of America’s academically credentialed business elite.

And that’s the problem. Romey is an uncomfortable fit for a political party deeply suspicious of intellectualism and cosmopolitanism. So he has made bashing President Obama’s ties to Harvard--Obama also attended Harvard Law School--a feature of his stump speeches."

www.thenation.com/blog/167246/why-romney-bashes-obamas-harvard-education

It is exactly the same as here. The elite will only allow fellow elitists into positions of power because they do not trust the people.

claig Tue 01-Apr-14 12:46:20

And if our elite want to be accepted by the global elite, then they have to go to the States after Oxbridge in order that they can be seen to be "safe pairs of hands" before they became climate change advocates or write Climate Change Acts. Otherwise, the elite will end up with a certain Nigel Farage who openly dares say that the Green Emperor Has No Clothes and of course that will gain him tremendous popularity among the people and threaten the elite's house of cards and smoke and mirrors operation.

"On 25 July 2002, it was announced that [Ed] Miliband would take a 12-month unpaid sabbatical from the Treasury to be a visiting scholar at the Centre for European Studies of Harvard University for two semesters.[24] He spent his time at Harvard teaching economics,[25] and stayed there after September 2003 for an additional semester teaching a course titled "What's Left? The Politics of Social Justice".[26] During this time, he was granted "access" to Senator John Kerry and reported to Brown on the Presidential hopeful's progress.[27]"

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Miliband

" [David] Miliband studied Politics, Philosophy and Economics at Corpus Christi College, Oxford. In 1988 he won a Kennedy Scholarship to study for a Masters' Degree at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT). Upon returning to the UK, Miliband worked in a variety of policy positions for several organizations.

From 1994-97, Miliband served as Head of Policy for Tony Blair, working on the policies that would help propel the Labour Party into government. He served as head of the Prime Minister's Policy Unit on Downing Street during Labour's first term in office from 1997-01.

Under Prime Minister Tony Blair, Miliband served as Environment Secretary, focusing on making climate change a priority for UK policy makers

belfercenter.hks.harvard.edu/experts/2829/david_miliband.html?back_url=%2Fproject%2F61%2Ffuture_of_diplomacy_project.html%3Fpage_id%3D258%26page%3D2&back_text=Back+to+The+Future+of+Diplomacy+Project

Isitmebut Tue 01-Apr-14 14:03:03

Claig…Mit Romney’s problem was NOT his education, it was because after a financial crash, he was campaigning having owned a Private Equity company, that by definition, takes failing companies and turns them around, sometimes making workers redundant, sometimes due to the failure of turning that failing company around.

The fact that Romney’s company CREATED many more jobs as they turned around companies that would have failed, than lost jobs, was here nor there to the blue collar workers of America,

And how as Obama done, a huge disappointment to the American public, other than bringing in ‘Obamacare’ that is not that effective to most Americans, costing $tbillions, when the U.S. had a $16 trillion national debt. As I say, any fool of a politician can throw money at a problem.

Isitmebut Tue 01-Apr-14 14:09:12

Motown….FYI ‘Vice Presidents’ in American Banks are two a dollar, it just means he was a highly paid individual, I’d suspect a Trader at that age.

Farage was a commodity trader in the City for years, that used to speculate on oil and metals, which is apparently OK to the Ukip 'rose tinted specs' class warriors faithful. Guffaw.

claig Tue 01-Apr-14 14:18:24

I am arguing that it was Romney's elitist image and his Harvard background that harmed him and that is why he tried to attack Obama's Harvard background.

Romney was desperate and that is why he attacked Obama's Harvard background, when he himself had the same background. Usually they do not attack each other for that because they are "all in it together". It would be like a Labour Oxford PPE and climate change alarmist attacking a Tory for having an Oxford PPE and being a climate change alarmist or vice versa, or Yale Skull and Bones, Bush, attacking John Kerry for being Yale, Skull and Bones.

Usually all of this is kept quiet by the media, so that the public think that they are just like us at the George and Dragon and the Bull and the Bush.

But now we have a politician, Farage, setting the cat amongst the pigeons, the fox amongst the hens and the sceptic amongst the climate change fanatics, by saying to Cleggy and the rest of the Oxbridge team that they have never had a real job in their lives. The public didn't know that and they are wondering whether they like it. The chums have told the media to stop Farage before he brings down their whole house of cards.

Isitmebut Tue 01-Apr-14 14:36:32

Claig...I got as far as a Harvard man attacking anothers Harvard education, and switched off.

FYI I follow U.S. election campaigns very closely and would have had CNBC market and political news feeds on all day, so trust me, Obama's Democrates (U.S. Labour Party) attacked Romney's Private Equity background, and that with tax return lies, stuck.

The Republican's never reached out to various ethnic groups and Romney's old day job, brought up day after day, meant Obama was given another chance despite a disappointing administration, it happens, ask Mr Blair.

claig Tue 01-Apr-14 14:42:24

'I got as far as a Harvard man attacking anothers Harvard education, and switched off.'

I'm not surprised. You seem to have switched off over Tory policies too.

I wasn't talking about Obama attacking Romney, I was talking about why Romney attacked Obama (one Harvard man attacking another Harvard man).

'The Republican's never reached out to various ethnic groups'

But he lost his own base, just like Cameron has done with half of Tory Party members tearing up their membership cards and many defecting to UKIP. Cameron has a similar problem to Romney, he can't even convince his own base.

Isitmebut Tue 01-Apr-14 15:33:28

The Republicans might have peed off a few in ‘the bible belt’, but they did not see their support decline to an attack on education, Romney’s Republican, similar to the Conservatives, were standing against throwing good money after bad, and projections on U.S. debt going north of $20 trillion confirmed that.

Obama refused to speak about policies and wanted to spend his way out of a recession, and funny old world most people in a recession liked that. Furthermore Obama’s brains behind the election campaign, ran a far better system of identifying and appealing to voters, especially the poorer ethnic groups. If memory serves, one of those Democrat election campaigners came over to work for Labour, which explains a lot.

FYI it was this deficit/spending battle that spilled over later to affect the markets/Royal Mail sell of, as the Republican’s were still trying to curtail reckless spending, and Obama making the Republicans out to be the bad guys, dug his heels in and government was closing down, government workers unpaid.

Re The Conservative support that you say went to Ukip, and Farage says they didn’t; apparently many of the core Members that left were in the Shires and miffed in a coalition Fox Hunting wasn’t brought back - I’m sure they’d be well happy at Ukip. Lol

Anyway, UKip has zero seats, the Conservatives may have lost some friends who may ‘cut nose, to spite face’, but they have found new ones, so don’t worry yourself about that. Worry that when Ukip DOES publish their policies, how many voter you’ll use, clearly Farage does.

Isitmebut Tue 01-Apr-14 23:41:43

Motown ….I have an admission to make, I had not realised who Savid Javid was, when I answered.

In fact I had seen him several times on the likes of The Daily Politics and I was impressed with how he coolly explained government policies under a Beeb third degree and handled the fellow Labour Shadow guest.

So maybe a future leader, I’d like to know more about him, but I’d have no objections from what I’ve seen - but you’d do him no favours in his government career path alerting the grey suits with knives, to that ambition.

As to uniting the Conservatives with Ukip………..nuff said elsewhere from me.

Spinflight Thu 03-Apr-14 00:45:53

There is no uniting tories and Kippers isitmebut... Oil and water...

Isitmebut Thu 03-Apr-14 01:09:12

Agreed, the key issue in common is an EU referendum and the Conservative, as the only main party for one, will do so in 2015, for 2017.

Ukip need 'the people' to be fooled that they can offer one NOW and stop immigration - so they'll even be attacking each other on the same policy.

KL07 Sat 12-Apr-14 09:01:04

Isitme - it's Eton, not Eaton....

KL07 Sat 12-Apr-14 09:02:58

And the plural of Republican is Republicans not Republican's....

Isitmebut Sun 13-Apr-14 14:04:06

KL07...a spelling error from a numbnuts with an inner city comprehensive school, I wish I was dead.

Thank you for your thought provoking contribution poster.

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