Another Angry Voice: UKIP are not an "Alternative"

(98 Posts)
ttosca Sat 29-Mar-14 21:22:36

Hardly a day goes by without some delusional person completely ignoring the subject of the item I've shared to enthuse that UKIP are an "alternative" to the corrupt political establishment.

In this article I'm going to explode the myth that UKIP are an "alternative" and conclude by providing a list of genuinely alternative political parties and organisations.

anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/ukip-alternative-delusion-neoliberal.html

ironmaiden999 Sat 29-Mar-14 22:18:20

Why are you bothered? People are going to vote UKIP whatever you post on here.
ttosca, I don't think you realise that UKIP supporters are fed up to the back teeth with the three other main parties. The majority of people are ignored by the political elite. UKIP is on the up, good luck to them! grin

Ukip thrive on hate and fear, it really worries me that people are falling for their shit.

BoulevardOfBrokenSleep Sat 29-Mar-14 22:42:08

Well, like you say (that's your blog?) a lot of UKIP voters might actually have more in common with the Green or Libertarian parties, but people don't really like to think too hard about stuff unless they absolutely have to.

Not a slur on UKIPpers particularly, psychology studies keep showing that our brains use all sorts of short cuts to reach decisions (and then to congratulate ourselves on having made the right decisions!) so if someone thinks 'bloody human rights - too many immigrants - bloody politicians', UKIP makes them feel like their complaints have been heard, without having to expend too much thought. Or find actual, sensible solutions to said complaints.

Had to laugh at Farage's claim to having had 'a proper job'. As a stockbroker. Yeah, you're really feeling the pain of hoi pollloi there mate.

Isitmebut Sun 30-Mar-14 02:04:07

Ukip ARE an alternative, to those who have no real interest in policies but feel they should vote, and/or believe that a anti-political party is the answer to the current 3 main party system – failing to understand that the vast majority of policies/spending is cast in stone, with little wriggle room even WITHOUT a budget deficit.

Hence with Ukip it is why (to the main party's) it matters more on what they DO NOT stand for, than what they do stand for, via the policies they implement, as more unhappy voters come to a no domestic policy Ukip, that will not leave, no matter what the main parties do or offer.

So despite what Lord Ashcroft (and others) thinks, that similar to 2010 the Conservatives could lose the 2015 General Election due to Ukip votes, so the Tories should try to win their vote - to my mind that is a wasted effort and the Conservatives should concentrate on the bigger picture and have policies that appeal to the huge percentage of voters who did not turn out in 2010 – believing that ‘all parties were the same’, when there are now clear ‘alternatives’ between the direction of travel of the main party’s, and no policies at all from Ukip.

“Blow for Tories as only one in 10 Ukip voters would switch to stop Ed Miliband"
• Tories have been warning that voting Ukip will hand Labour victory
• However poll reveals that just one in 10 would swap their vote
• Showed 41 per cent favour leaving EU, and 41 per cent back staying

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2591965/Blow-Tories-one-10-Ukip-voters-switch-stop-Ed-Miliband.html

And the above article analysing Ukip voters seems to confirm my view, that while they will influence the next election, it is ‘the party of the damned’, so the main parties should move on looking for votes elsewhere.

claig Sun 30-Mar-14 02:15:29

There's only one word for that article - drivel

ironmaiden999 Sun 30-Mar-14 09:28:06

Claig, I'm glad you bothered to read it! I will have to now!smile

ttosca Sun 30-Mar-14 09:36:19

ironmaiden-

> Why are you bothered?

Because everyone should be bothered when people start voting for petite fascists.

> People are going to vote UKIP whatever you post on here.

Then they should at least know what they're voting for.

> ttosca, I don't think you realise that UKIP supporters are fed up to the back teeth with the three other main parties. The majority of people are ignored by the political elite.

Yes, I do realise that very well. I am also one of those people.

The three main parties do not represent the interests of the public, and neither does UKIP. If you want more of the sanem neo-liberal policies, with added racism, xenophobia, and a bit of fascism, vote UKIP. Otherwise, look for another alternative.

HolidayCriminal Sun 30-Mar-14 09:41:37

OP's a leftwing slightly more intellectual version of you, Claig.

ironmaiden999 Sun 30-Mar-14 09:47:00

ttosca. Many have found an alternative to the three main parties, it's called UKIP! grin

claig Sun 30-Mar-14 11:07:35

'OP's a leftwing slightly more intellectual version of you, Claig.'

Do you really think that my intellect is THAAAT LOW?

ironmaiden999 Sun 30-Mar-14 12:02:01

Claig. How very much dare they! Comparing your intellect to ttoscas? Obviously you are far superior intellectually to ttosca. Must go for a
brew…………..Oh and to google UKIP.

claig Sun 30-Mar-14 12:07:46

Thank you ironmaiden999, I have always admired your good sense!

Isitmebut Mon 31-Mar-14 15:11:53

Claig....as you are a keen poster off Daily Mail comments on Ukip (when it suits), from your 'inside' supping seat at the Old Bull & Bullshite, what do you mainly disagree with, when calling the article "drivel"?

Do YOU think that the current Ukip voters, who don't seem to care about Ukip's (lack of) mainstream policies, are indeed flakey and may desert to the main political party on a juicy policy or two elsewhere?

P.S Do you think that scheduling Mr Farage on Ch 4 tonight @ 7.30pm for an hour, clashing with Corrie and 'stenders, is a plot - and that the remaining 721 viewers and potential admirers within the UK not watching soaps or The Gadget Show, will be viewed down the Old B & B with disappointment?

claig Mon 31-Mar-14 15:54:05

'Do YOU think that the current Ukip voters, who don't seem to care about Ukip's (lack of) mainstream policies, are indeed flakey and may desert to the main political party on a juicy policy or two elsewhere?'

Absolutely not. Nothing could be further from the truth. The UKIP following is very loyal because they believe in the truth.

There is a new worrying poll out for Cameron.

"Among people who voted for the Conservatives at the last general election, only 28 per cent said Mr Cameron is in touch , falling to 9 per cent among 2010 Lib Dem voters and 7 per cent with people who voted Labour last time round.

Mr Farage fares much better with his own party. Despite being a privately-educated former stockbroker, 77 per cent of people who plan to back Ukip say he is in touch ."

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2593183/Barely-quarter-Tory-voters-think-David-Cameron-touch-normal-people-think-gets-early-leaders.html

'Do you think that scheduling Mr Farage on Ch 4 tonight @ 7.30pm for an hour, clashing with Corrie and 'stenders, is a plot'

I'm not sure, but the patrons of the Bull and Bush are saying that it is an outright plot. They even think that the programme may attempt to put good people off Farage so that the chumocracy's chap, Cleggy, can increase his poll rating. But the patrons say that all attempts to marginalise Farage will fail as viewers will have already SKY+ed the programme. Mother Brown has certainly done so. She wants to be able to watch it again, as she may not be in a fit state for tonight's viewing if the promised rounds of drinks are purchased by the patrons of teh Old Bull and Bush.

ironmaiden999 Mon 31-Mar-14 17:39:20

I think showing this documentary on Farage, will do him no ill at all.

Martin Durkin, who made the film says in a piece in the Telegraph;

Farage is 'passionate about his political beliefs', and that he is 'no little Englander, I've never met a man with greater love of global free trade'.
Martin Durkin says ' We expect to have control over our won lives, but the EU denies us that. The EEC (as it was) promised free trade, but we got an inward looking protectionist club. Mr. Farage is right on these things'.
Durkin also writes; 'I now like him such a lot'.

I doubt very much if this film will be a character assassination of Nigel Farage, although you never can tell until you've seen the documentary.

Having met Farage on several occasions I can vouch for the above.

As far as Corrie and Eastenders is concerned I can watch it later!

claig Mon 31-Mar-14 17:54:18

Martin Durkin sounds "in touch".

It sounds like it is going to be brilliant. Excellent article. Farage is great. What a difference to the chums' favourite, Cleggy and all the rest of the spinners.

Shame Farage is not PM.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/10731266/My-six-months-with-normal-Nigel-Farage.html

claig Mon 31-Mar-14 18:00:18

' For example, he thinks that the global-warming scare is utter nonsense, and says so to whomever will listen, even though most savvy politicians know to toe the green line.'

Farage is an absolute hero for telling the truth when all the cowards and spinners just go along to get along.

claig Mon 31-Mar-14 18:03:42

You can bet your boots that Cleggy will have all the best brains from Oxbridge in to advise him how to go for Farage over his statements about Putin on Wednesday. I hope Farage has the courage to stick to his convictions and show Cleggy up for the chum he is. If he does, the people will vote for Farage in droves. What people want is backbone, not the spineless sycophancy of the spinners.

claig Mon 31-Mar-14 18:06:39

'And his chums in the City, as far as I can see, are Essex through and through.'

Well it is the best county!

claig Mon 31-Mar-14 18:10:45

It's far better than "Eton through and through"

Isitmebut Mon 31-Mar-14 18:33:45

Hey Claig…..now I can object to a Daily Mail article; did you read all the polled categories with which leader is ‘in touch’, which apart from ‘who would leave the greatest legacy’ (which Cameron won hands down), they were frankly designed for those a tad short of ‘little grey cells’.

Cameron went to Eaton, the media, the opposition parties and you have made such a thing about it, you didn’t think that a label of being ubber upper class would not have stuck in the minds of those polled?

The ONE question of any electoral use, re measurement of a leaders ability to change things for the better, was on their legacy; Cameron 34%, Miliband & Farage 9% and coalition Clegg only 4% - which in my opinion is a far better perception in voters minds than someone’s class.

So while Cameron may not be ‘in touch’, he has the ability to go on from a coalition (that includes Mr Clegg) and change peoples life for the better.

Of course Farage is seen as ‘in touch with the people’, as over 20-years he has spent more time portraying that, than developing domestic policies for Ukip that even last a whole parliament, and having never been in power, neither Ukip or Farage have any record for the electorate NOT to like.

If P.M. Farage, with his upper class upbringing and City job, had brought in the Flat Tax and National Insurance 31p in the pound as per their 2010 manifesto, do you seriously not think that Farage would have been seen as off his mind (with our deficit), never mind ‘out of touch’?

claig Mon 31-Mar-14 18:43:47

Cameron only got a high score about legacy, because he is PM. Farage isn't. So they can't be compared on that.

If Farage had brought in the flat tax, it would have left more money in people's pockets during the worst recesssion in our lifetimes and that would have allowed people to spend more and create more profits for business.

Instead, what the chums did was to bail out the banks with taxpayer money, so that their City chums could carry on enjoying the high life while people were thrown out of work and businesses closed down.

They called it "quantitative easing", a term probably concocted by a chum from Cambridge. If they had instead "eased" taxes like Farage would have done, they could have had a smidgen of his popularity with the people.

claig Mon 31-Mar-14 19:02:47

Isitmebut, watch the 1 hr special documentary on Farage tonight. At the end of it, I think that you will see the light, join with the people, ditch the chums and vote for UKIP.

There'll be some pints waiting for you at the Old Bull and Bush and the quantities will not be easy.

Isitmebut Mon 31-Mar-14 19:52:53

Claig….re your ‘legacy’ point, it must be on expectations of a (final) legacy at the end of their political life, as Clegg in a coalition would have the same points as Cameron, and neither Miliband or Farage have run a cabinet and been responsible for implementing their party’s policies.

As for a Flat Rate repeat Flat Rate of 31p of Income Tax and National insurance, think again who that helps, those paying the 20 odd pence rate of tax, or the 15% of people considered ‘wealthy’ paying 40p and above? At least you explain why this policy wasn’t a socialist Ukip voter deal breaker, no one understood it. Lol.

Re the bailing out of global banks just needing central bank liquidity and Uk banks that had grown too large and the government allowed speculators to take their stock prices down to BELOW book value, unfortunately allowing citizens and businesses to lose everything was never an option – and similar to global QE type central bank operations you clearly know nothing about if you think that is was (and still is) was class related – that all mainly began in 2008 and nothing to do with a 2010 manifesto.

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