Is Middle England stirring?

(39 Posts)
claig Germany Mon 03-Feb-14 20:35:49

'Tory MP Tim Yeo has been ousted by his local party, the second Conservative to be de-selected in less than a week.'

...

'Some Tory MPs were also nervous about the impact on their own prospects if local associations became more confident about ousting their local MP.

One said: 'Associations are becoming increasingly assertive - if they get rid of him, others will do the same.'

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2551013/Tim-Yeo-ousted-Conservative-MP-grassroots-revolt-second-Tory-backbencher-rejected-week.html

Is this a setback for the Bullingdon Club?
Does democracy reign in the shires and heartlands of Middle England?
Are the good people of our green and pleasant land defying their masters?
Will the revolt slow down or will it only get faster?

claig Germany Mon 03-Feb-14 20:38:42

Comments of Daily Mail readers underneath the article show a distinct lack of worry about the trend. grin

Some even seem to be saying "Bring it on!"

Isitmebut Mon 03-Feb-14 22:15:50

Claig…Strange times; if Ukip, led by an ex-City oil speculator, who issued “drivel” in over 400 pages of their 2010 General Election manifesto he has recently owned up to/disowned, but STILL promises that Ukip can deliver the UK from the EU when it 100% cannot do so - AND STILL sanctions it’s fan-atical supporters to tell the UK that they are any kind of alternative to the mainstream parties – then who knows what is happening at grass roots levels.

One thing is clear, it is that Conservative associations look at policies, but Ukip have nothing to offer, and the only other options are pro EU socialist parties, one of which ruined the country – so don’t panic Claig, middle England, as in the U.S. via the Republican Tea Party, want their elected local politicians accountable to them and not the party line.

FACT; the UK will be either governed in 2015 by Labour of the Conservatives, and as a vote for Ukip is a vote for the Labour Party, who due to ‘fixed’ boundaries only need 35% of the vote to get a majority in parliament, based on ideals you have to wonder what Farages Ukips end game is all about.

So by the General Election any current Ukip voter with half a brain will want to back a real party, with a real track record and policies that worked, rather than a flip flopping policy dream machine, only in politics for power - so will gladly enable the pro EU Labour Party regain it and take us ever deeper into a Federal Europe, without giving the people a say.

claig Germany Mon 03-Feb-14 22:28:04

I understand what you are saying, Isitmebut.
And just like the comments of Daily Mail readers, I am glad that the Tory grassroots, away from the metropolitan elite, are standing up and making their voices heard. That shows that no elite leadership is capable of forever riding roughshod over ordinary people. Power to the Tory constituencies and power to the good people in them.

But, read the comments of Daily Mail readers to see how far the disillusionment with the metropolitan elite has gone. It is only the good people in the Middle England constituencies who can stem the tide and maybe win back some of the Tory faithful who have abandoned the metropolitan elite. But, I think it may be too late now.

The metropolitan elite, born to rule and schooled at Eton and Oxford, may be unable to swallow their pride, admit their mistake and listen to ordinary people. Some may think that they can cling on to their £100,000 jobs in quangos etc. But I don't know if they will be able to, because the people are holding a broom and they want to sweep up.

Maybe more Tory MPs will be deselected by Tory grassroots constituencies, but I doubt the metropolitan elite in their ivory towers will understand why or even care why.

DoctorTwo Iran Mon 03-Feb-14 22:34:37

I hope Middle England does rise up from its torpor and overthrow this corporate government and hang them from lampposts, and then do the same to Dacre, the peoples' bigot™. We need a revolution. We need to nationalise all those things your lot sold to foreign governments and we need to nationalise the Bank of England.

MoreBeta Mon 03-Feb-14 22:37:41

Interesting.

I wonder if people in middle England are beginning to feel the pinch and have decided to kick out local MPs who don't reflect that reality and live too much in the Westminster bubble.

claig Germany Mon 03-Feb-14 22:37:59

Dacre is a demi-god to Middle England.
But huge change is coming sooner or later and yes it may even lead to more nationalisation. I am in favour of nationalising our banks, our railways, our power and water companies. UKIP aren't in favour of it, but I think the ordinary people will eventually be.

DoctorTwo Iran Mon 03-Feb-14 23:21:13

I personally know nobody who likes the Heil and its editor. They are from all walks (the people I know) and hate what it stands for. They don't vote the same way, but they all think Dacre should be lobotomised for his own good.

As for parliament, we could do with 650 independent MPs who are not beholden to one corporation or another, unlike the corrupt tossers we have now. Except we should keep Dennis Skinner, at least he can be trusted, unlike that ham faced wanker.

claig Germany Mon 03-Feb-14 23:40:07

'I personally know nobody who likes the Heil and its editor.'

I personally know nobody who doesn't like the Mail and its editor.

You trust Dennis Skinner, the pet of Bolsover?

"Skinner became a Blairite! A "left" pet of the Blairites and of Blair himself, who reportedly used to "consult" Skinner, that is, test the political temperature by the responses of this extinct little one-time would-be socialist.

It was a degrading and shameful role for Skinner to play. Seemingly, he relished it.

Now Skinner backs the candidate for Labour leader who is most clearly identified as Blair's heir - who is to Blair what Blair was to Thatcher, whose essentials he accepted.

Skinner's advice should be treated with contempt and derision. Yap on, little poodle!"

www.workersliberty.org/story/2010/09/17/dennis-skinner-blairs-poodle-yaps

Spinflight Tue 04-Feb-14 00:35:36

Whilst it is nice to see the 'Turnip Taliban' baring it's teeth I suspect it will be a somewhat isolated incident...

As all the old, failed, parties pledged to allow the recall of rogue MPs, and then promptly reneged, Yeo will still sit until the General Election. It is likely that his chums will find him a safe seat elsewhere so this is hardly progress...

" but STILL promises that Ukip can deliver the UK from the EU when it 100% cannot do so - AND STILL sanctions it’s fan-atical supporters to tell the UK that they are any kind of alternative to the mainstream parties – then who knows what is happening at grass roots levels."

I'll assume these statements of yours have been debunked countless times, the road out of the EU is a clear one....

longfingernails Tue 04-Feb-14 00:52:36

Good riddance.

If the Tories got a few more Priti Patels, and Douglas Carswells, and got rid of a few more Tim Yeos, Anne McKintoshs and Crispin Blunts, then they wouldn't have to worry so much about UKIP.

Isitmebut Tue 04-Feb-14 00:58:15

Spinflight....no they have not been debunked, far from it, on the other 'News' board it was admitted by a Ukip poster that Ukip CAN NOT bring the UK out of the EU - as it would need a majority in parliament of 326 to even begin getting legislation through that house, to then hit the majority pro EU Labour and Lib Dem Lords, who have just stopped Cameron's attempt for a 2017 referendum - but he has a Plan B on that.

So who is lying to Ukip supporters, Farage or me?

Isitmebut Tue 04-Feb-14 01:02:29

Claig…ha ha ha do you have a bet with someone how many times you write “Metropolitan elite” and do you SERIOUSLY believe those writing comments on Daily Mail articles are Tories, rather than gaggle of Ukip supporters who usually can’t use capital letters and finish their comments with stuff like ‘vote ukip coz thyr the best’, which kinda gives it away?

Tell me, did the Metropolitan Elite with Eaton educations take a growing economy in 1997 and turn it into a basket case by 2010?

Which Conservative thought it was a great idea in 2004, with over 500,000 under 25-year olds unemployed, to have a secret immigration policy, that diluted the UK domestic worker pool and brought down pay rates, especially for the lower paid – without building homes for the net 1.5 to 2.0 million that came over?

Which Conservative by conducting that immigration policy on their people then put more pressure on all public services, from midwives to schools?

Oh no it wasn’t, it was the in touch ‘party of the people’ that did that, and have they ever said why? Nothing to do with poorer European nations tend to vote for socialist parties and New Labour saw it as an attempt to increase their vote in the South, NOTHING corrupt about that, to Labour supporters that is.

In a complex world, where our parliament (lawmakers) need to put aside base ideology proven not to work and gain an education to make the right decisions for the country, didn’t we pass the ex postmen, ship stewards and dinosaur MP’s (who can hardly put together a sentence at PMQT) an excellent legacy in 1997 and see it turned into an unbalanced economic disaster?

Is it so bad having people with brains who understand how to run a balanced economy, cut back £170 bil on Labour’s fat government quangos, understand how benefits shouldn’t rise during a boom, understand private sector jobs PAY for the State rather than debts, control immigration and want to give the people a vote on the EU, took a few million lower paid out of tax with the £10k allowance Brown never did, gave the pensioners a rise that brown never etc etc etc?

You can call Conservatives ‘metropolitan elite’, I’d call the only other party that might government in 2015, that caused the economic disaster, something far worse than ‘incompetent socialists’ – and so will my grandchildren’s children, still picking up the bill of that debt, one way or another.

As for Ukip, the Moonies have more policies and use to the British people.

exexpat Tue 04-Feb-14 01:09:50

I just knew before clicking on this thread that it would have been started by Claig...

Isitmebut Tue 04-Feb-14 01:10:20

longfingernails....please list the Ukip talent out of all their politicians, with UK parliamentary experience - as this country ain't got time for novices, whether of questionable far right wing politics, or not.

Seriously, whether policies, record in power, or quality of candidates, Ukip is in no position to criticise ANY Tory, especially as their leader is a failed Tory on steroids.

Spinflight Tue 04-Feb-14 01:44:10

Easy, you just invoke article 50 or revoke the 1972 act.

Cameron could do it tomorrow without consulting parliament. Heath took us in without a referendum, which aren't binding in the UK anyway.

You are correct that we need a majority in parliament to realistically do this, however this is the only way we will ever have control of our borders, the right to trade freely with our cousins and determine our own destiny.

I do hope you'll forgive an observation Isitmebut... You claim that UKIP supporters are obsessed with the EU, irrational, shouty and delusional... Golf club bore types....

Have you perchance checked in the mirror recently?

Just asking....

Isitmebut Tue 04-Feb-14 01:56:03

Spinflight...in summary, unless Ukip go from zero seats to 326 in the 2015 election and THEN try to get it passed a socialist majority Lords, Ukip cannot keep their promise - so there is no point whatsoever giving Ukip a protest vote in the EU elections May, as it will not make an iota of difference to Labour or the Lib Dems pro EU policy. Correct?

Heath took us in a Common Market, not a Federal Europe the project morphed intoto.

Why is a UK referendum not binding?

Isitmebut Tue 04-Feb-14 02:00:19

Oh and re your observation, after what they inherited each time I can be proud of the Conservatives record in power, clearly all Ukip have is obsessed with lies about other parties and what they can offer, when they get around to rewriting it.

Spinflight Tue 04-Feb-14 03:54:42

Referenda are not binding on parliament, even if Cameron's referendum bill hadn't been shot down in flames he could simply ignore an unfavourable result. Not that any sane person believed it would happen in the first place....

Indeed whilst it is neither appealing, nor practical to determine what goes on behind those bright dead alien eyes we do have to take what comes out of his mouth as most likely, at least...

He was asked the very question on Spanish TV and responded that he would simply ignore an Out vote. Subreptile to the core.

Not necessarily 326, we wouldn't need an outright majority, merely a Prime Minister ( who is technically chosen by the Queen rather than absolutely being the leader with most MPs ) and enough MPs to survive a no confidence vote. The Lords isn't a problem, Labour introduced legislation that can effectively bypass it. Cameron, of course, could have used this for his referendum bill......

The only complication is that from November of this year even invoking article 50 would then require a vote in the European parliament. If such a vote went against us ( which it would ) then you simply rip the treaties up and declare UDI, repeal the 1972 act ( which was probably illegal anyway ) stick two fingers up, drop your trousers and fart in the general direction of Brussels. blush

What gives you the impression that UKIP have to win 2015 outright? It took the Labour party 24 years before they formed a weak government, UKIP are on a similar trajectory.

Given that there is the square root of diddly squat that the liblabcons can possibly to do curb mass, uncontrolled, immigration or for that matter any of the aspects of EU law which people are only just starting to notice I suspect 2020 would be rather a fertile hunting ground for us Kippers. wink

I do feel rather sorry for you Isitmebut. I recognise that you have a great deal of energy and emotion tied up in the tories prospects, though I fear that you will not enjoy the next few years.

By 2020 the tories will likely be a South East pressure group campaigning for the rights of Merchant Bankers.

claig Germany Tue 04-Feb-14 07:28:47

"Tell me, did the Metropolitan Elite with Eaton educations take a growing economy in 1997 and turn it into a basket case by 2010?"

I don't know about this place called Eaton, but from what I can gather they were drunkoff their heads in places like Fettes and Kirkcaldy.

Some of them have been knighted for what seems like services to Tony Blair or to "banking".

Good on Prince Charles for going to Somerset to see the people suffering these terrible floods. Where are the great and the good, why aren't they there too? Why aren't they making apologies for spending millions of the people's money on "bird sanctuaries" instead of dredging rivers and protecting people's homes and businesses?

claig Germany Tue 04-Feb-14 11:14:56

From reading today's Daily Mail, as far as I can make out, Newsnight tonight will have a feature on the rise in popularity of UKIP. I think there will be a Heffer report and UKIP's Head of Policy, Tim Akers, the candidate for Thurrock will be on.

Heffer has written an interesting article in the Daily Mail about the dire situation of some Tory grassroots areas where membership has halved etc.

Should be worth watching.

Again read the comments of Daily Mail readers underneath the article. I can find hardly any that support the Tories, the Bullingdon Club or the modernisers.

"A few months ago, a former big donor to the Conservative Party in the north of England told me something rather shocking.

He said that in parts of his region where the party held seats for decades until 1997, and where it must win to form a government after the 2015 election, it barely has any organisation at all."

...

"No wonder a new poll suggests that two fifths of Conservative activists are in favour of forging a pact with Ukip before the next election.

They’re used to fighting Labour and the Lib Dems, but not an energetic new political force which – crucially – seems more organised than the Tories in many areas.

It’s bad enough for the Tories that they lack local associations in vital areas where they need to win.

But it’s also becoming a problem that in safe areas where associations survive, the remaining members are so fed up with the direction of the party that they won’t toe the Cameron line.

Only last week the Thirsk and Malton party deselected the loyalist Anne McIntosh. And yesterday, despite – or perhaps because of – pleas from David Cameron to spare him, South Suffolk booted out Tim Yeo."

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2551333/Nurture-grassroots-pay-heavy-price-polls-Tory-party-barely-presence-seats-hopes-win-says-SIMON-HEFFER.html

Spinflight Tue 04-Feb-14 11:40:57

I rather feel sorry for the tories who want a pact.

Certainly won't happen in my neck of the woods....

claig Germany Tue 04-Feb-14 11:52:19

That's very interesting, Spinflight.

Apparently, according to the Guardian, it is now approx 50% of Tory activists who want a pact.

Ukip pact backed by nearly half of Conservative activists

I think the results of the EU elections in May, I think it is, will be earth-shattering and Tories will start panicking.

Apparently Prince Charles called us good climate change sceptics ""the headless chicken brigade", but I think that might be a better term for the worried elite Bullingdonians when they open their Guardian newspaper after EU election day.

ironman Tue 04-Feb-14 12:26:56

Claig. Why did they get rid of Yeo, what did he do wrong, haven't read much about him? smile

ironman Tue 04-Feb-14 12:36:38

As far as I'm aware Farage will never have a pact with Cameron, he can't stand him. Most members of UKIP I've spoken to do not want anything to do with the Tories. Dave or Ed? most UKIP voters do not like either 'Oxford educated gents'grin Taken from UKIP watch on the Telegraph.

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