Can we discuss the Green Party?

(53 Posts)
sheisaba Wed 03-Apr-13 18:51:38

I pretty much have lost my faith in all the major parties. I cannot vote lib dem again after this coalition debacle. Labour are a lost cause and I can't see myself voting for them again.

Their inability to meaningfully oppose the coalition at this time is terribly disappointing. TBH, I think they are too in the pockets of big corps to be an effective opposition party.

So who is left? I like the Green party's official line, especially about creating a fairer society. So any one who knows more about politics able to tell me if they are really worth a shot? Will they be another lib dems that would sell their souls at the first sniff of power?

I want to be able to vote for a party that won't disappoint that would at least make a credible opposition to the mainstream.

Why dreamers Startail?

The current government in a long line of governments blue and red have not done enough to make sure the less well off are in a position not to need benefits (and I'm talking about shitty wages requiring state top up) and we continue to waste resources. Being "green" is actually about being more efficient and effective in a sustainable way - a message which I think the greens could do more to promote.

Startail Wed 10-Apr-13 23:22:35

In practical dreamers, who need to grow up.

superstarheartbreaker Wed 10-Apr-13 23:15:39

Thank goodness we have one party that is interested in sustainability , that's all I can say. Unfortunately most people won't vote for them
which means we are all screwed! as many are very short sighted and cannot see how sustainable energy and sustainable living equals sutainable economic growth. Most people are only interested in what is on their plates NOW and how much they have on their plates. I feel taht Green policies address the bigger picture.

ouryve Mon 08-Apr-13 15:55:46

You're not alone in your disillusionment, btw. Check this out.
leftunity.org/

ouryve Mon 08-Apr-13 15:54:20

I have voted green in the past. I think a lot of their policies are sound, if a little on the idealistic side. I have a sticking point with their transport policies, though, as, unless they throw a lot of money at subsidising public transport, they would be punitive for those of us who live in rural areas or commute across counties, or even travel a lot to get to work. They would also have to heavily subsidise local shops if they really want us to be less reliant on the roads they want to neglect (and our roads in the Northeast are already over capacity and neglected without their lack of help). I can't see them finding anything in the coffers for that.

flatpackhamster

Please provide evidence for this statement: Hundreds of thousands of Londoners are leaving for the suburbs. That puts pressure on surrounding areas, on their schools, on their roads, on their house prices

flatpackhamster Mon 08-Apr-13 07:13:28

sheisaba

London isn't really full, there are other cities with much higher population densities doing quite well.

Those two points aren't mutually exclusive. You do know that there's a huge 'white flight' taking place at the moment, don't you? Hundreds of thousands of Londoners are leaving for the suburbs. That puts pressure on surrounding areas, on their schools, on their roads, on their house prices.

For anyone who thinks voting for anyone other than the "main parties" is futile, just vote for whoever you want anyway. Better than not voting because noone takes notice of a no show. Look at UKIP.

Same goes for those who don't vote because they live in a "Tory heartland" etc. noone notices or cares about the no votes. They do care about those who vote for other parties because they have something to worry about those who feel strongly enough to vote at all, even more so who vote for those who are not a mainstream party.

Thats why I vote in every election and will be voting Green next time around. I've read their manifesto.

Solopower1 Mon 08-Apr-13 06:41:09

Good idea!

sheisaba Sun 07-Apr-13 23:03:48

Am going to message MNHQ to see if we can get Natalie Bennett on MN live Q&A Solo. See if we can get some more details on their manifesto.

sheisaba Sun 07-Apr-13 22:59:27

London isn't really full, there are other cities with much higher population densities doing quite well. I would say that living spaces can be designed better, not talking tower blocks and we have a lot to learn about better designed living spaces.

The crux of the issue of the issue is ratio. The ratio is 4-5x higher in uncollected tax to welfare fraud. The fact that the parties don't seem to be bothered tells me that the agenda has noting to do with scarcity of resources.

flatpackhamster Sun 07-Apr-13 21:33:46

sheisaba

As a daughter of immigrants flatcaphamster a party that uses humanizing language when talking about immigrants will always have my vote.

The stats are available for anyone that is interested that immigrants as a group give in taxes a whole lot more than they take out.

There are also stats which show they compete with unskilled and semi-skilled 'natives' (can't think of a better word but represents those people already living here and whose parents lived here, from whatever background) for scarce jobs, and for scarce public sector resources such as social housing and good schools.

Immigrants and people of the commonwealth are very much a fabric of the UK's historical genes and vice versa.

I don't think anyone, least of all the first and second generation black and Asian UKIP voters and candidates, disagree. It is disingenuous to suggest UKIP is against all immigration. But UKIP rightly raises [essentially] unlimited immigration as an issue because it affects a swathe of voters who are ignored by the other parties.

There are several arguments here - do we need more migrants, have we got room to house more migrants and at what point do we consider the UK 'full'? Remember that 90% of migrants remain in London and the SE. 70% of migrants who arrived since 1997 have remained in London.

Solopower1 Sun 07-Apr-13 20:51:58

If you like Green policies it's a good idea to vote Green because then the parties that do get in will have to take note, and might skew their policies a little more towards the Green ones.

That's what happened with Cameron and UKip. As soon as he realised how popular they were becoming, he started to try to look as if he was taking on board some of their issues.

Another way of getting Green policies put on the agenda is to join one of the more popular parties and fight from within.

But much more information needs to be out there - they need a far higher profile. I also had problems finding an up-to-date Green manifesto in the last elections.

sheisaba Sun 07-Apr-13 11:37:19

Another thing that I am sick of is 'fear politics' and divisiveness. I become so turned off when I feel I am being manipulated. I want to be treated like a grown up that can handle the facts even god forbid have an opinion on macro economics policy.

There was an interesting article about the London Whale that the reason he nearly brought down JP Morgan was because his many managers actually did not understand what he was doing. He apparently peppered the terms of presentations with such jargon that none of his managers wanted to look stupid and question him on it.

This is what I feel is happening with the economics decisions currently, they are so peppered with jargon that Journos and the public actually aren't asking the basic questions. Most reasonably educated adults would understand fiscal policy at a decent enough level.

THIS is the article if anyone is interested.

Politicians are no smarter than the general public so it makes me nervous when they enter into overly complex monetary policies as I am pretty sure they don't know what the hell they are doing.

sheisaba Sun 07-Apr-13 11:04:05

Well the conservatives are a no go for many reasons.

As a daughter of immigrants flatcaphamster a party that uses humanizing language when talking about immigrants will always have my vote. The stats are available for anyone that is interested that immigrants as a group give in taxes a whole lot more than they take out. Immigrants and people of the commonwealth are very much a fabric of the UK's historical genes and vice versa.

Economically, quantative easing and bail outs are hugely interfering and unsustainable in the long term. As far as I am concerned I can't see one party that's not economically authoritarian at this time. If they need to interfere so much in the markets I would like the focus to be on the whole of society, i.e. a living wage, etc

Interesting discussion so far though. I do realise that my vote will not bring them to power but at least I will have done my bit. I might contact them about helping out in London and get involved.

Branleuse Sun 07-Apr-13 08:29:27

ive given up voting after whhat happened last time.

Pointless exercise in futility, and the only reason is to make people think they have some sort of democracy, when in actual fact they just do exactly what they want and fuck the people.

flatpackhamster Sun 07-Apr-13 08:14:44

AnnieLobeseder

Anyway, like I said, no point in joining the Green party, for all extents and purposes they don't exist where I live. I might as well join the American Democratic party.

If everyone had felt that way about UKIP it wouldn't now be coming third in polls ahead of the Lib Dems. If there isn't a group in your area you need to start one and find other like-minded people, and stand for the local council. That's how it works.

I hope they do push their profile forward in the future though.

Well I'd be surprised if they pick up much more of the vote. I can see them climbing to about 6% or 7%, and holding on the far-left areas like Brighton, but their policies don't appeal to mainstream Britain.

showtunesgirl Sun 07-Apr-13 01:21:29

Erm, you do know that Caroline Lucas is no longer the leader of The Green Party? It's now Natalie Bennett

I'm amused by the assumption that I just randomly decided to like the Green party one day without actually reading their manifesto first.

Anyway, like I said, no point in joining the Green party, for all extents and purposes they don't exist where I live. I might as well join the American Democratic party. I hope they do push their profile forward in the future though.

Viviennemary Sat 06-Apr-13 15:20:37

I've voted Green a few times in the past. I do approve of most of their policies and the other parties are all a waste of time at the moment. But I'm not sure I'd vote green again because they never seem to get anywhere. I think if they had more power more people would vote for them. I know that's not very logical.

ttosca Sat 06-Apr-13 15:12:34

Annie-

Why don't you email Caroline Lucas and ask her why she thinks you should join the Green Party.

Alternatively:

https://www.facebook.com/TheNoPartyUK?ref=stream

Right. The way this thread has gone doesn't bode well for the Greens then. Oh well, UKIP it is. I'll warn my forrin DH to pack his bags.

flatpackhamster Sat 06-Apr-13 06:50:22

Read their 2010 manifesto. They wouldn't deport illegal immigrants, they'd allow them to work and to naturalise. They wouldn't limit entrants from other EU nations. That's an open door policy. It says "Come on in, and bring your family, your mates and your pet dog Gerald."

The 'rise to a living wage' won't cut people's standards of living. Energy rationing will. Read their 2010 manifesto on energy. They explicitly say they will 'reduce' demand. They'll scrap all our gas, coal, oil and nuclear power generation and rely entirely on renewables and, presumably, fairy dust and unicorn smiles to make up the shortfall.

LittleTyga Fri 05-Apr-13 23:49:57

Flatpack - I've read their Policy on Immigration and they do not support unlimited immigration and how does a rise to a living wage cut people's standards of living? My standards of living have got worse in the last few years. I'm earning the same as I was 20 years ago. Except now I have two extra mouths to feed!

As far as I can read on their website their policies sound fair, well thought out and ethical.

I really like the sound of them and wish they would take this opportunity to really up their profile.

claig Fri 05-Apr-13 21:26:40

Annie, don't skim it read it carefully word for word and think about every word. Then go to their website and read their manifesto.

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