"The EDL is not a racist group"

(64 Posts)
IrrelevantElephant Sat 22-Dec-12 23:50:42

Please please don't flame me. DPs best friend is a fairly senior member of the EDL. Every time we get into a discussion about race/racism, DP defends his mate. Says there are senior people in the EDL who are black etc.

I'm not smart. I'm not well educated. But I know EDL is wrong. I would appreciate help to defend my views.

Tortington Mon 07-Jan-13 18:47:08

can i be racist and have a black friend op? Yes i can. If i was, i'd be a racist twat and my black friend would be stupid for being my friend.

having a black/muslim membership does not preclude racism in itself.

chipstick10 Mon 07-Jan-13 18:37:02

I know someone who belongs to the edl, as a person he's really nice. He doesn't strike me as particularly racist. He,s black though I know that doesn't mean anything because racists come in all shapes and colours.

mercibucket Sun 23-Dec-12 19:32:58

Well, yes, you do have a point on that too! I thought it was more about what to say to her dp? Not much point arguing with someone high up in the EDL although I always think it worthwhile speaking to those who for example leaflet. Sometimes it's just about feeling confident in your own views and knowing a bit more about what's going on politically.

BeataNoxPotter Sun 23-Dec-12 19:20:54

That's fair enough, mercibucket. But if OP's DH's friend is fairly senior in the EDL I'm sure he knows that their stance is based on misinformation and half-truths.

She asked what to say to to him. She hasn't a hope of changing his mind, I fear as he's found a gang to hang out with to bolster his innate racism and give it a gloss of semi-respectability.
All I would say to someone like that is "You're a racist thicko, mate".

mercibucket Sun 23-Dec-12 19:14:56

Arf at the idea BeataNoxPotter
No, I'm just trying to inform the op about some issues the EDL might mention so she knows more about them. The issue of Sharia Courts is currently being discussed by the mainstream political parties and so there is no need for the EDL to get its knickers in a twist about it.
There are reasons why people are drawn to the arguments of the EDL. Some of them are dubious and racist. Some of them are because legitimate concerns have been overlooked by mainstream parties imo. A lot of their arguments do have a grain of truth wrapped up in layers of lies and misinformation. Because there is an element of truth, they are both more convincing and also misleading. It is important imo to know more about the issues, not wave them away with a 'racist thugs' wave of the hand.

nailak Sun 23-Dec-12 19:10:13

you cannot use uk law to get an islamic divorce, so how will they be better of using uk law? they can get divorced legally, that doesnt mean they can get another muslim marriage or religiously in the faith they adhere to they are divorced! The shariah courts require the civil divorce if you were legally married before they give islamic divorce!

I disagree that communities would prefer women to go to shariah courts, communities would prefer they didnt get divorced and stayed in their marriages, and that is what not having the shariah courts would mean, that in the eyes of the community they were still married!

and why blame mis information, I am not misinformed, yet I do not have a civil marriage, that is nothing to do with the shariah courts, I have been no where near a shariah court!

domestic violence issues? It is the shariah courts that allow women to escape abusive husbands,as like I said without them they would still be considered islamically married!

As for the witness of men vs women etc, there are situations where the womens witness is worth more then mens as well!

BeataNoxPotter Sun 23-Dec-12 19:03:36

The EDL isn't motivated by a desire to improve the rights of women, though, is it?

mercibucket Sun 23-Dec-12 18:57:48

www.huffingtonpost.com/blackberry/p.html?id=2100461

Some of the issues around sharia courts are covered here, and in the telegraph article

It is partly about those courts that use mis-information - so women are not informed that they would do better if they used UK law, or that they are not protected under religious marriages in the way they are under civil marriages. And let's not look too deeply at domestic violence issues under sharia

nailak Sun 23-Dec-12 18:50:07
ironman Sun 23-Dec-12 18:49:17

Who said you have to live in the UAE to be Muslim?

nailak Sun 23-Dec-12 18:48:45

I don't see how shariah courts are a step backwards for Muslim women's rights. 99% of the shariah courts work is granting divorces to women who want to leave their husbands, so surely this is a good thing? without shariah courts there wouldnt be a way for Muslim women to get an Islamic divorce? The courts make it easier for them to do so. Although they are not perfect and there are issues with them. Jewish courts have existed for ages I believe?

Also lets talk about the protests at the returning soldiers, Muslims against the Crusades, or whatever Anjem Choudary is calling his group now is nowhere near mainstream, it is a group of about 300 misguided individuals, that no other Muslim organisation wants anything to do with.

BeataNoxPotter Sun 23-Dec-12 18:48:35

Aah, so their upset was founded in racism. Who knew? hmm

Who says you have to live in the UAE to be Muslim?

ironman Sun 23-Dec-12 18:41:33

Beatanoxpotter. No I suppose they would not have opposed Churches being built as this is a Christian country, and is not the United Arab Emirates!

ironman Sun 23-Dec-12 18:39:02

mercibucket. The Anti Nazi League are intimidating as well.

mercibucket Sun 23-Dec-12 18:37:46

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/9621319/Sharia-courts-as-consensual-as-rape-House-of-Lords-told.html

This is an article about sharia courts in the UK. It was debated in the House of Lords. It is not an 'exclusive to the EDL' argument.

mercibucket Sun 23-Dec-12 18:37:46

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/9621319/Sharia-courts-as-consensual-as-rape-House-of-Lords-told.html

This is an article about sharia courts in the UK. It was debated in the House of Lords. It is not an 'exclusive to the EDL' argument.

BeataNoxPotter Sun 23-Dec-12 18:37:38

Why did they get upset about 35 mosques being built? Would they have been upset about 35 Christian Churches being built?

ironman Sun 23-Dec-12 18:33:46

So what if your hubby has a friend in the EDL. Surely the poor mans entitled to have whatever friends he likes. The EDL was set up originally because of insults thrown at a group of returning soldiers by a bunch of fanatics. It's not surprise that the EDL was set up in Luton, as some of the people of this town got upset with the 35 mosques that were built.

It's no surprise here on MN most things are taken as racist, it goes with MN territory. That and self-righteous hectoring. grin

mercibucket Sun 23-Dec-12 18:32:03

It's really unhelpful to fall back on the 'thick racists' card.
Op, I don't know much about the organisation itself but their supporters can be very intimidating at rallies - if you look at newspaper reports of places they've held marches, there are lots of examples.
Interestingly, often it is the anti-EDL supporters who end up getting arrested. Often on police evidence that is later contradicted by video evidence. Make of that what you will.
I spoke to the EDL people who were leafleting our area a while ago. They were making a big thing of the Asian grooming trial that was happening at that time. Their argument was along the lines of 'white girls/muslim paedophiles'. Imo that was one reason why it wasn't tackled for so long - fear of being politically incorrect. But this is one of many many cases of young girls being exploited - and in the vast majority of cases by white men. Prisons are not full of muslim paedophiles/sex offenders.
Another EDL argument is about sharia courts. Again, there is a grain of truth to this and imo it is not a welcome development for women's rights. However, we are not in any danger of having sharia law.
I'm sorry that's not very helpful. I hope some other posters will try to engage with your topic rather than shouting it down.

suburbophobe Sun 23-Dec-12 18:28:55

I wouldn't even give these type of people the time of day, frankly.

The 'they're not racist, some of them are black' defence is utter bollocks. Your DP needs to do a lot better than that! Has he explained why he agrees with the EDL? Ask him which of their ideas he agrees with- he either knows fuck all about them or he's a racist. Let's hope it's the former.

I can't think of the EDL now without thinking of the muslamic rayguns bloke. He pretty much sums up the EDL for me- thuggish and stupid.

CogitOCrapNotMoreSprouts Sun 23-Dec-12 18:06:42

This is pretty typical of EDL racism.... link

Supporters, masked-up behind the cross of St George for cowardly anonymity, making a very big deal about the 'domination of Isam' and protesting against something that is not going to be in the statute books any time soon i.e. Sharia Law. This kind of stereotyping, prejudice and incitement is racism .

nailak Sun 23-Dec-12 01:32:09
nailak Sun 23-Dec-12 01:29:52

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Oppose-Extreme-Thickness-Oppose-The-EDL/160659503979060?fref=ts

here is a nice fb page, the admin searches out all their bile and posts it.

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