Who's coming on the anti-austerity march on 20 October? Sign in here

(58 Posts)
ninjasquirrel Tue 09-Oct-12 20:18:26

Given the anger on many other threads, I can't be the only one...

afuturethatworks.org/why-we-are-marching/

ttosca Tue 09-Oct-12 22:46:08

Hells yeah!

grovel Wed 10-Oct-12 00:25:41

That poster is drivel. I'm a sympathiser but I don't want crap like that promoting opposition. It says zilch.

niceguy2 Wed 10-Oct-12 06:10:33

Wow. Ttosca. You are really going to come back to the UK just to march against austerity? I'm impressed.

flatpackhamster Wed 10-Oct-12 07:38:10

I think that 'the anger' is the same fourteen posters. Luckily the marchers are laying on a whole coach, but you should be OK with three cars.

ttosca Wed 10-Oct-12 11:10:29

Facts: All figures are in the public domain and many of them are sourced under the Freedom Of Information (FOI) Act.

1) The Government “Deficit” was £83 Billion in 2010. Despite 2 years of cuts ... the “Deficit” has increased.

2) The major companies and corporations in the UK are sitting on reserves/profits in excess of £750 Billion.
...
3) They refuse to invest because they cannot make “a big enough profit”.

4) There is $21/£13 Trillion stashed away in Tax Havens, paying little or no tax.

5) £13 Trillion is equal to 10 times the total wealth produced in the UK annually.

6) Up to £120 billion is avoided/evaded in taxes by the corporations and the super-rich here in the UK each year ... where is the Deficit?

7) Less than 20% of the “Austerity programme” has been implemented ... 80% more to come. NHS sell-off etc, etc.

8) It is now confirmed that 73 people die each week after they had been passed “Fit for work” and lost their ESA (Sickness) benefit.

From January to November of 2011 ... 10,600 people who had been removed or transferred from Benefits died during that period of 11 months.

Tough choices? Fuck your choices.

ttosca Wed 10-Oct-12 11:11:37

Wow. Ttosca. You are really going to come back to the UK just to march against austerity? I'm impressed.

Haven't left the UK yet. Lived here for over a decade and half.

dreamingofsun Wed 10-Oct-12 11:28:35

ttosca - some of the facts you state are misleading. lots of people die who are working - i imagine ex ESA applicants are just the same. My father came home from work, went to bed and died.

So many people complain about these measures, but can't seem to come up with a better solution. Countries such as Greece are broke because they've spent more than they can afford and they are having to make really bad cuts now. The labour gov caused many of these problems - spending too much when the world economic climate was good, allowing lax banking rules.

lets have some solutions please rather than just moaning.

claig Wed 10-Oct-12 11:34:07

ttosca, are you moving country? Where are you going?

claig Wed 10-Oct-12 11:36:14

'lets have some solutions please rather than just moaning.'

I think Cameron's speech, just about to start, will be full of solutions and devoid of moaning!

ttosca Wed 10-Oct-12 13:03:46

dreaming-

That statistic, if I am not mistaken, is the based on the number of people who die within a month of having their support removed and deemed 'fit for work'. Sure, you could argue about the exact number. The assertion that many people are being deemed 'fit for work' when they clearly are not is not controversial. 40% of appeals are successful.

These 'fit for work' tests are having a devastating effect on disabled people:

Fear of fitness to work tests driving disabled patients to suicide, say 6% of GPs

[http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/fear-of-fitness-to-work-tests-driving-disabled-patients-to-suicide-say-6-of-gps-8197432.html]]

So many people complain about these measures, but can't seem to come up with a better solution. Countries such as Greece are broke because they've spent more than they can afford and they are having to make really bad cuts now. The labour gov caused many of these problems - spending too much when the world economic climate was good, allowing lax banking rules.

Actually, many people have suggested solutions. If you're not open to any solutions which don't involve severe austerity measures, then you won't hear them.

Here is an article you could read if you're genuinely interested:

www.pcs.org.uk/en/campaigns/campaign-resources/there-is-an-alternative-the-case-against-cuts-in-public-spending.cfm

And no, the Labour govt. didn't cause the deficit crisis. That was caused by the financial crisis which caused a recession. This govt. made the situation worse with its austerity measures, putting the UK in to the worst double-dip recession in 50 years.

www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/jul/25/gdp-figures-recession-50-years

ttosca Wed 10-Oct-12 13:04:20

claig-

Have you changed teams yet again, then? Are the Daily Heil supporting the Tories this week?

claig Wed 10-Oct-12 13:39:40

'Are the Daily Heil supporting the Tories this week?'

I don't know who the Daily Heil supports. I read Britain's most influential newspaper - the Daily Mail.

niceguy2 Wed 10-Oct-12 14:53:20

Sorry Ttosca. Must have got you confused with another regular ultra lefty poster then.

WRT the £13billion squirreled away in tax havens figure. I'm not sure where you got that figure but let's go with that at the moment.

What do you propose would be the solution? I'm assuming here that the vast majority of this figure has been legally earned, taxes paid and then later moved (again entirely legally) to an offshore haven. Plus I'd wager that much of this £13 trillion is probably earned globally and have sweet FA to do with the UK.

ttosca Wed 10-Oct-12 15:19:32

I read Britain's most influential newspaper - the Daily Mail.

No, that's Britain's most mocked newspaper. It's also supports fascists.

ttosca Wed 10-Oct-12 15:25:37

What do you propose would be the solution? I'm assuming here that the vast majority of this figure has been legally earned, taxes paid and then later moved (again entirely legally) to an offshore haven.

Then clamp down on offshore tax havens. It's really not rocket science. You can also help reclaim tax which they wealthy try to avoid by taxing in ways which are not avoidable - such as the mansion tax.

The problem, yet again, is not that it can't be done, but that there is no political will on the part of the Tory scum, most of whom are multi-millionaires and own mansions themselves.

Plus I'd wager that much of this £13 trillion is probably earned globally and have sweet FA to do with the UK.

Why would assume that?

niceguy2 Wed 10-Oct-12 15:39:27

But 'they' already are clamping down on tax avoidance/evasion and part of that has been to put pressure on havens like Switzerland Ft.com

The rich pay the most in tax and have seen the biggest tax increases. Combine that with the loss in allowances and you have to be careful you don't drive people away. Look at what's happening in France? [[http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/334520 Socialist gov't policies in France lead to mass exodus]

All your 'tax the rich until the pips squeek' policies result in, is the poor having to pay more taxes. The exact opposite of what you actually want.

ttosca Wed 10-Oct-12 15:48:17

Globalisation is a problem for the state collecting taxes, which is why we need to come up with a global solution to tax avoidance. We could create laws whereby companies who want access to european markets must pay a certain amount in corporation tax, for example. It is not likely that they would avoid this, given that the EU is the second largest trading market in the world.

Secondly, I think a better approach would to let the poorest keep more of their money. This can be done in numerous ways: no just by increasing the bottom rate of income tax, but by decreasing taxes which the poorest pay most such as VAT. You could also make day to day living cheaper by enabling rent controls and nationalising the railways.

The cost of living in the UK is completely out of control, and with wages stagnating for the past three decades, thanks for attacks on unions and workers rights, along with outsourcing, most people had to take on debt to survive. It is only the wealthiest who benefited from these political and economic changes. The vast majority of the new wealth for the past few decades has gone to the richest.

The Tory scum, though, are ideologically committed to immiserating the poor and vulnerable. They want to fix the economy through supply-side measures like making it easier to fire people. The problem with the economy is not supply-side, as much as the small-state ideologues would have you believe. The problem is demand-side. I.e. there is a lack of demand because nobody has any money and nobody can afford the cost of living.

If they genuinely want to help the average person and help the economy, they would institute demand-side measure to stoke demand - but they can't and they won't. They see this, instead, as an opportunity to permanently wreck the state and public services.

Opentooffers Wed 10-Oct-12 15:55:27

Lol Claig, yes lots mock the Mail readers. Brave or otherwise of you to own up to that.

amicissimma Wed 10-Oct-12 16:34:21

"Brave or otherwise of you to own up to that. "

It seems that 1,730,699 other people agree with claig enough to buy The Mail.

CelticPromise Wed 10-Oct-12 17:00:17

I'm going... I see thread has moved on a bit though!

ninjasquirrel Wed 10-Oct-12 20:08:25

Hello CelticPromise! Yes, it seems to have been, ahem, diverted...

domesticgodless Wed 10-Oct-12 20:14:21

Claig is a fair minded and interesting poster despite his/her to my mind bizarre daily mail fetish. His/her comments on the Cameron speech are balanced and refreshing.

I will be going on the march Ttosca and hopefully bringing ds1 but
We may stay on the sidelines as he's only 9 and police herding tactics worry me. Pm me if you know where you'll be starting off.

claig Wed 10-Oct-12 20:24:55

Thank you domestic. I try to be as fair minded as I can, which is why I stick up for the Daily Mail and the Daily Mail reader when they are scurrilously abused and mocked by the ignorant.

I'm thinking about it.

Ttosca are you a pcs member?

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