Cabinet reshuffle

(40 Posts)
radiohelen Tue 04-Sep-12 11:13:44

So place your bets ladies and gentlemen... how many women will be left in the cabinet by the end of the day? Will there be less than he started with? It's looking that way at the moment.

Warsi is yet to accept her job offer as a junior minister after being fired as Tory co-chair. The deadline was 9am apparently.
Caroline Spelman and Cheryl Gillan are both out.

Not sure I'm happy with the lurch to the right. Ken Clark is a sensible chap and all the people who are being promoted are essentially career politicians with no discernible broad view of the world. OK it's not like we have a party like the Republicans in control but it still doesn't sit well for me.

slug Thu 06-Sep-12 12:11:06

^ state = mediocre bordering on poor, private = better^

Ha Ha Ha Ha <<falls over laughing>> I've taught in both state and private. <<giggle>> Simply not the case in my experience. But hey, if you pay for it it's got to be better, right? hmm

ttosca Thu 06-Sep-12 13:21:52

slug-

Flatpack also thinks there shouldn't be a minimum wage or anti-discrimination laws. He's a free-market fundamentalist.

I agree, he is pretty funny.

Extrospektiv Thu 06-Sep-12 13:37:32

ttosca- You're a left-wing extremist - you admit you actually believe in the collapse of capitalism and replacement by socialism; so from my moderate position that's no better.

I support a raise in the minimum wage btw.

pinkteddy Thu 06-Sep-12 13:53:46

brilliant letter in the guardian today which sums up the reshuffle first one in attached link

niceguy2 Thu 06-Sep-12 14:10:03

Elburro, I don't think you can conclude that just because there are not 50-50 in the cabinet that therefore sexual discrimination is therefore proven.

Even assuming for one moment that there is an old boys network active, I can't see how the correct answer is to force a quota of women into the cabinet regardless of whether they are the best person for the job.

ElBurroSinNombre Thu 06-Sep-12 14:24:00

niceguy;

I would be interested in how you would explain the rather low proportion of women who achieve positions of political influence, if it is not through sexual discrimination of some sort or other. In this case and given the number of examples of Cameron's patronising attitude to women that are on the public record, I find it hard not to draw that conclusion.

If you do assume that an old boys network exists then that is another form of active discrimination, in reality little different to the quotaing that you oppose, except that the quotas would be in the public domain and therefore transparent.

slug Thu 06-Sep-12 15:11:33

Apparently, around govt way it's referred to as the DOMs and the non-DOMs i.e. "Dave's Old Mates" (who get jobs) and those who are not.

Given Eton is a boys only school, the pool of 'old mates' contains little if not no women at all.

flatpackhamster Thu 06-Sep-12 15:28:47

ttosca

Feel free to mischaracterise my position - it reinforces the view that you either don't understand it or are trolling.

ttosca Thu 06-Sep-12 16:31:06

ttosca- You're a left-wing extremist - you admit you actually believe in the collapse of capitalism and replacement by socialism; so from my moderate position that's no better.

Oh yes indeed I do. There is a reason you're seeing popular movements and protest happening all around the world with millions of people taking to the streets. Capitalism is failing the majority.

But it doesn't matter what I 'think will happen'. We'll see in 10 or 20 years exactly how long people will tolerate Capitalism when conditions become increasingly extreme.

ttosca Thu 06-Sep-12 16:32:26

flatpack-

I'm not mischaracterising your position. You made the claim that anti-discrimination laws against pregnant women should be abolished and that the minimum wage is harmful to employees.

Feel free to retract or explain your position more clearly.

MrJudgeyPants Thu 06-Sep-12 16:48:03

ttosca I'll bet you a capitalist made bottle of Laurent Perrier champagne against a communist made Romeo y Julieta hand rolled Churchill cigar that your revolution fails to materialise within 20 years. Furthermore, I predict that, dreadful accidents aside, the head of this good capitalist will still be in the general vicinity of my shoulders too!

As I said elsewhere, it will be the parents of the would be revolutionaries who will defeat them.

MrJudgeyPants Thu 06-Sep-12 16:49:18

ttosca "You made the claim that anti-discrimination laws against pregnant women should be abolished and that the minimum wage is harmful to employees."

I think it was me who said that wasn't it?

slug Thu 06-Sep-12 16:50:12

ttosca, I think in this case "extremist" = "Has a better argument than me"

It's a tactic I see more and more used by the Tea Party in the USA

Extrospektiv Thu 06-Sep-12 22:33:30

Both sides use the word extremist.
Tea Party will call Obama-Biden an extremist left wing ticket, which is false.
(Ralph Nader with Denis Kucinich or Barbara Boxer as VP= extreme leftwing.)
But moderate Republicans will call someone like Barbara Ehrenreich, Scott Lemieux or Noam Chomsky extreme left wing, which they are.

Same on the other side. The New Yorker, many European publications, and MSNBC will call Romney-Ryan an extremist right wing ticket, which is false. (Santorum with Pat Buchanan or Herman Cain as VP= extreme rightwing.)
But moderate Democrats will call Ann Coulter, Michael Savage or the Constitution Party extreme right wing, which they are.

It all depends whether you're clouded by being far onto your side so you cannot see the centre. It has nothing to do with what arguments you use.

flatpackhamster Fri 07-Sep-12 07:20:42

slug

ttosca, I think in this case "extremist" = "Has a better argument than me"

It's a tactic I see more and more used by the Tea Party in the USA

No, 'extremist' means 'extremist'. It's clinging to a set of fringe views that normal, rational people reject. My views on the minimum wage aren't extremist - I think that the minimum wage is bad for unskilled workers because it pushes them out of the job market, and that has been seen to be the case in countries such as France. I certainly didn't say what Ttosca is attributing to me about pregnant women, but this isn't about facts, it's about hate - and Ttosca hates it when she's schooled, which is what happens regularly in the threads here now.

I don't consider the Labour party, Lib Dems or Tories to be extremist. Just wrong. The Socialist Workers' Party I consider to be extremist. Communists are extremists. That puts Ttosca squarely in the 'extremist' category.

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