Just been on a course about new benefit system

(541 Posts)
buggyRunner Sun 08-Jul-12 21:33:28

Christ it's a big shake up.

I say this as someone who won't be personally affected- it is harsh.

Basically if you claim any benefits other than child benefit you're probably going to have a loss.

garlicbutter Mon 09-Jul-12 10:19:33

Niceguy, of course she hasn't got DLA for a nut allergy! She may have a nut allergy but, if she's got an allowance, she also has a more serious condition.
Have a look at the DLA Child application form.

Here's the eligibility checklist and the
adult application form
... and for the people who tell me I get "loads of money" for a lower-rate mobility condition, here are the current rates.

The PIP criteria will be narrower, and the DWP has been open from the start that its objective is to reduce the disability budget by 20%.

JuliaScurr Mon 09-Jul-12 10:20:36

unitethresistance

don't agonise - organise!

STOP THE CUTS!

Iggly Mon 09-Jul-12 10:28:00

I'm sure there's a lot of money wasted by having millions of different benefits. In some ways, a more streamlined approach will work.

However cutting people's money in such a drastic fashion just smacks of madness. It really does. It's all very well talking about spongers and the like but if all benefit claimants were spongers, then we wouldn't have "shock" stories in the DM paper because it would be around us all the time.

I dread to think what this country will look like in 2-3 years time.

Minimal outcry for bankers fiddling the system so we pay more mortgage interest and they get bailed out by the state. Maximum outcry when someone in need gets state help.

This country is fucked.

niceguy2 Mon 09-Jul-12 10:43:54

My attitude? What attitude is that then? The one which believes that we cannot go on borrowing money and that as a result we have tough choices to make. It's not about what we 'should' be spending money on but more what we can actually 'afford' to spend money on.

All I'm arguing is that we cannot do everything and so we need to choose. It's simple mathematics but because of this, some people mistakenly think I'm some sort of uncaring, capitalistic bastard.

garlicbutter Mon 09-Jul-12 10:48:08

Your post about the girl with a nut allergy didn't seem focused on the national balance sheet, niceguy.

Scarredbutnotbroken Mon 09-Jul-12 11:12:14

Nice guy - this is the issue though the cuts are disproportionate to how much the benefits cost the country in the first place. Benefit fraud is a tiny bill every yet and yet tax evasion is vast, billions. What the guts are really about is surely pleasing voters.

flatpackhamster Mon 09-Jul-12 12:16:02

Scarredbutnotbroken

Nice guy - this is the issue though the cuts are disproportionate to how much the benefits cost the country in the first place. Benefit fraud is a tiny bill every yet and yet tax evasion is vast, billions. What the guts are really about is surely pleasing voters.

Benefit fraud might (might) be small, but the cost of welfare in the UK is immense. The total cost of the welfare state, including healthcare and education, is something like £400 Billion a year.

SerialKipper Mon 09-Jul-12 12:44:17

hamster, it's likely that for you, as for most people, your biggest single cost is housing. You may even have a mortgage.

You could in all likelihood save a lot of money, and dig yourself out of debt, by taking your entire family and living under a bridge.

Perhaps you might even splash out on the luxury of a single room, with access to shared kitchen and bathroom, for you and your entire family.

You would then not be spending lots of money on housing.

But why the fuck would you do that?

You spend your money - even decide to go into debt - to achieve the things that are important to you. The money is simply a means to this end.

So it is with national spending. We spend on what we think is important as a nation. It all has to be calculated, and just like a mortgage done with a good eye to the future, to investment and also to the costs of not spending.

You may think education isn't important for the nation. Fine. I beg to differ. But the size of the education bill (or health, or housing) shouldn't be the key factor in deciding that this is the thing that must be cut; the importance of education and impact of the contemplated cut should loom rather larger in the decision-making process.

violathing Mon 09-Jul-12 12:55:31

If your child leaves home for Uni at 18 can you still keep HB for a 2 bed property ? For when your child returns home in the hols? I am asking on behalf of my friend who asked yesterday. She is a lone parent on IS and her DS is going to uni in the Autumn

JuliaScurr Mon 09-Jul-12 13:03:29

bank bail out £850 billion
total debt £1 trillion (ish)

and this debt was caused by too many teaching assistants, was it?

hmm

niceguy2 Mon 09-Jul-12 14:14:58

Like I said earlier, I don't believe the current focus on fraud is a good idea. Outright fraud is low, I'm not disputing that. What I am saying is that we cannot afford our welfare system as it is so we must draw the line somewhere. It's where we draw the line which is the hard part because like I was trying to explain, each claimant will genuinely believe that he/she deserves it. But obviously we cannot just hand out money to everyone because we don't have the money.

The fact is that we take in around £400billion in taxes each year and we spend over £300 billion in health/education & welfare. It wouldn't be so bad if the other departments could get by on the remaining £100 billion but we are actually spending > £600 billion each year.

It really isn't about oh the rich are screwing the poor and we're cutting based on some right wing unsympathetic agenda. It really boils down to simple maths. There isn't enough money to go around.......which bits do you want to keep paying for and which bits must we live without.

SundaeGirl Mon 09-Jul-12 14:30:00

I don't want to be paying for someone's spare room when there are families waiting for bigger houses. Why should I pay?

flatpackhamster Mon 09-Jul-12 14:33:10

SerialKipper

hamster, it's likely that for you, as for most people, your biggest single cost is housing. You may even have a mortgage.

You could in all likelihood save a lot of money, and dig yourself out of debt, by taking your entire family and living under a bridge.

Perhaps you might even splash out on the luxury of a single room, with access to shared kitchen and bathroom, for you and your entire family.

You would then not be spending lots of money on housing.

But why the fuck would you do that?

To cut my living costs to match my earnings.

You spend your money - even decide to go into debt - to achieve the things that are important to you. The money is simply a means to this end.

So it is with national spending. We spend on what we think is important as a nation. It all has to be calculated, and just like a mortgage done with a good eye to the future, to investment and also to the costs of not spending.

What happens in reality, though, is that politicians say to us "Hey, you can have all this great stuff and pay for it later", and lefties go "Yay, let's have it all" and then, when it comes to pay for it later, lefties shout "No, it's unfair." And so the debt grows, and grows, and grows until it eats the heart out of the economy. Did you know that we're spending £40Billion a year just paying the interest on our debts? That's half the education budget.

JuliaScurr

bank bail out £850 billion
total debt £1 trillion (ish) £1.6 Trillion

Extra cost from PFI which is hidden off the books - £300Billion.

and this debt was caused by too many teaching assistants, was it?

I fixed your figures for you.

SerialKipper Mon 09-Jul-12 14:36:18

So hamster, do you in fact live under a bridge?

If not, why not?

I mean, you could be spending all that money on something more important to you than housing.

garlicbutter Mon 09-Jul-12 14:42:22

Sundae, when I moved here there was a fixed rate of HB for single people. With that, I could get a nice 1-bed flat with central heating, double glazing, etc or a ramshackle 2-bed house with neither. If I move out so somebody with children can have the 2 bedrooms, the landlords will renovate the house. It's not been touched since the early 70s. After they've repaired & decorated it, they will put the rent up.

Meanwhile, I'll have to pay the deposit for a one-bed flat - which I can't do - and get my stuff moved with no car and no money.

Have you got any good ideas? If my landlords change their minds about reducing my rent (in exchange for renovations) I'm going to need your suggestions.

garlicbutter Mon 09-Jul-12 14:44:06

we're spending £40Billion a year just paying the interest on our debts

which we incurred by collectively paying the banks' debts.

So why are you blaming us (and making us pay)?

garlicbutter Mon 09-Jul-12 14:50:58

Oh, Sundae, and I won't even get HB if I leave this place voluntarily! The landlord will have to evict me. To do that, they'll need a valid reason such as trashing the house or not paying my rent. Therefore, even if I could afford to vacate my home in favour of a smaller property, I still have to shaft them in order to be housed.

SundaeGirl Mon 09-Jul-12 15:00:50

Sorry, garlic, that sounds shit. Lots of people have trouble with their housing. Like a lot of mothers and children living in B&Bs waiting for two bedroom places to come up.

garlicbutter Mon 09-Jul-12 16:05:17

Yep, they do, Sundae. I was trying to demonstrate that arbitrary rules cause more problems than they solve.

I'm one of those who did move to an area with cheaper housing. There was nothing affordable in London, even before these new cuts. I'm too old, and too ill, to live 2 floors away from a shared toilet. Obviously moving's not an option for the majority - and would be utterly stupid if they were hoping to get back to work in the near future. There's a reason why cheap places are cheap.

I just can't believe any of these policies were put together by grown-ups!

FrothyOM Mon 09-Jul-12 16:15:46

People really don't know what's about to hit them... sad

niceguy2 Mon 09-Jul-12 17:23:06

Garlic et al. The interest on debts are not just because of the bankers. Sure of course they share some of the blame but even without the bailouts the recession would have exposed a ruddy great big hole in our finances. The total debt of £1 trillion excludes the financial interventions. It's scarily more if you include them but these are one off events.

I'm much more concerned with our ability to sort out our structural deficit. We're barely scratching the surface with what is needed to be done and listen to everyone moan as though it was the end of the world. I don't think most people even realise we're nowhere close to even breaking even and we're looking at at least another 5-8 years of austerity & more cuts.

garlicbutter Mon 09-Jul-12 17:37:28

I realise it, all right. Even if I weren't among the frightened masses making sure we have our suicide plans in place, I'd be bloody angry. It's extremely clear we're being governed by inexperienced idiots (I include Gordon in that, btw - he knows his money, but not enough of government) and I violently resent being practised on.

MetalliMa Mon 09-Jul-12 17:49:28

tis great isn't it.
my dd who is disabled and has been since birth, will have to go through all the DLA stuff again, even though she has an indefinite award.
of course she will still get it(or what ever the new name for it is)
but what a waste of money and time,
doing this won't cure her and make her not disabled.
you have ot love D scam, could he have more hatred.

buggyRunner Mon 09-Jul-12 18:39:32

Ctc being abolished and replaced with universal credit- you'll need to agree to additional commitments- look for better paid work/ more hours etc

All payments are monthly in arrears

SundaeGirl Mon 09-Jul-12 18:41:05

The thing is it really should not be up to the public purse to pay for people's spare rooms. It should be a matter of public policy to pay for NEED not want.

Of course, there are personal stories of this not being dealt with efficiently. But we live in a time of housing crisis. if you want a spare room you'll need to pay for it. We shouldn't support guest rooms when we can't even house desperate families.

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