Santa is the Devil in disguise- Poor little 4 year old

(51 Posts)
msmiggins Tue 10-Dec-13 08:08:19

Don't you just love it- my poor 4 year old great nephew has been taught by nursery to reject Santa as he is the devil.
They have even given a lesson to show that the word Santa is an anagram of Satan- which proves it- obviously.
Now the poor mite hides when he sees anyone dressed up as santa selling christmas trees or in the store.
Don't ya just love what the church can do to young minds!

DevonFolk Tue 10-Dec-13 08:12:23

I'm speechless. In the UK? Did his parents know how imposing the nursery is of it's views before this?

DustyBaubles Tue 10-Dec-13 08:12:30

I don't think it the church per se, unless its some odd anti santa denomination!?

I'd say its more likely to be a random grinch, with issues.

Santa is paying multiple visits to most of the churches/church schools/preschools round here.

Kudos though, on having a four year old who gets anagrams fgrin

You you and his parents/Disney/The Coca-Cola Company not have any influence at all over the child at all?

msmiggins Tue 10-Dec-13 08:21:08

He goes to a church school deliberately chosen by his parents' I'm afraid. His parents agree with the teachings of the school ( Baptist) and they went to the same school themselves. They have two other children and pass on the same message about santa at home. This idea of Santa being the devil is not unusual in the baptist faith I'm afraid. My sister ( the boys grandmother) also goes to the same church run by the school, and even works a the school.
This is a large ( 500 pupil) private faith school.
The poor little boy is very nervous about christmas- and I made the mistake of sending them christmas card with a picture of Santa on it, before I found out that they were so anti- santa.

DustyBaubles Tue 10-Dec-13 08:25:04

Oh dear! Are they in the U.S?

Seems a bit odd, if they believe the devil/satan is real, to drag a properly commercial made up figure into it at all.

thankfull the UK baptists I've met seem to take a softer line. Either that, or the people who run the Boys Brigade my sons attend are proper renegades!

DevonFolk Tue 10-Dec-13 08:25:42

Ok so your OP was misleading. The boy's parents are teaching him this both at home and have chosen the nursery specifically to support their beliefs.

If that's the way they want to bring their children up then that's their choice.

DevonFolk Tue 10-Dec-13 08:26:24


flipchart Tue 10-Dec-13 08:29:01

Blindly, is it West Boro Baptist your sister goes to. They are a bunch of extremists to say the least and would love this sort of stuff!

The idea of Santa being the devil is so unusual in the baptist faith I've never heard of it! (I go to a baptist church)

Are you in America?

msmiggins Tue 10-Dec-13 08:30:56

Devonfolk- I didn't intend to mislead- i just find it very sad and manipulative to put such frightning thoughts into a small child's mind- whether it's at school or at home.
Doubly difficult when it's part of your own family.

The boy lives in Australia btw.

MarianneEnjolras Tue 10-Dec-13 08:47:25

Is "Father Christmas" an anagram of Satan too?

bellsringingoutforMadHairDay Tue 10-Dec-13 09:15:46


Never mind that Santa Claus is a variation of Saint Nicholas and that Santa means Saint? fhmm

I am shocked by this. I've never heard of such a thing being said. All I can say is that it is NOT representative of most churches. Most Christians I know do Santa quite happily alongside celebrating Jesus' birth. Santa has always been part of Christmas for us. This kind of teaching is not only mean but wrong. But if his parents want that for him that's up to them, and the school haven't gone against their wishes I suppose.

stressedHEmum Tue 10-Dec-13 10:14:04

JWs do the whole Santa is an anagram of Satan thing as well - but they also think that the whole "saint" thing is the work of the Devil. Christmas is definitely Satan worship, too.

NoComet Tue 10-Dec-13 10:22:19

Santa Barbara , Santa Monica are all full of devils too, I presume.

Honestly, words fail me.

I come from an atheist house hold that didn't do Santa, but no one ever told me those who did were wrong.

My parents said they didn't like lying (and my DM, lovely though she is, is not a romantic soul, play acting Santa would make her feel silly) also we had no spare money for stocking tat.

When I read that I thought it was just one overzealous group, but I just googled it to see lots of people saying Santa is the devil.

I could understand it if they said it was all too commercial and detracting from the 'real meaning of christmas' but that's just ridiculous isn't it.

So they are frightening children with an image they will see everywhere.

nicename Tue 10-Dec-13 11:20:04

That's a bit sad. Poor kids will be terrified every time they walk down the street at this time of year!

NoComet Tue 10-Dec-13 11:30:54

I've seen a little JW girl (Y3) in tears as school Christmas fun went on around her.

It's just wrong.

Families of other faiths manage to balance their beliefs with Christmas, so it seems ridiculous that some fundamentalist Christians can't.

ok looking more it may not be that common. The trouble with the internet is that one sad person's site looks like a whole christian denomination.

Couldn't find JWs saying outright that santa is the devil as it goes though they don't seem to like christmas.

Poor lad. Australia is very conservative in some area as they are influenced by American fundamentalism. Sydney is very conservative theologically.

I've never heard of Baptists doing the Santa = Satan thing but there are certainly conservative bits of that denomination.

My children were scared about the idea of Santa coming into the house when they were small as we didn't have a chimney so they couldn't quite work out how he was going to get in. So I used to tell them that I would wait up for Santa and let him in. One year the oldest ones tried to tell the little one that there was no such thing as Santa so I used the NORAD Santa-tracking to keep the legend alive for one more year.

crunchypower Tue 10-Dec-13 12:19:35

It's sad that they are forced to believe in satan. Santa I can take or leave as a concept but twisting it like this is cruel.

Greensleeves Tue 10-Dec-13 12:21:46

Stupid abusive bastards

they shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a school angry

zipzap Tue 10-Dec-13 12:55:42

I'd be very tempted if I was there with him in person to say that the people teaching him have got it all mixed up - santa is just an abbreviated way of saying Saint Nicholas and tell him the story of saint nicholas so he can see that he is on the side of good not bad. At least it would help him to see that maybe what he is being taught at nursery isn't always quite as correct or as black and white fixed truth as they try to tell him. And would help him to be not so scared when he sees anyone dressed as Santa. So sad. Mind you, I guess his parents wouldn't be too pleased but I would be prepared to take the risk. There are so many horrible and evil nasty things in the world that it seems bonkers to demonise something that for most people is there to bring joy commercialisation and fun into the dreariness of winter.

complete side track: marianne no - but Father Christmas is an anagram of Mr rich Fat Ass grin

This is a very funny brand treatment of Santa if you're used to seeing these sort of books for the brand of the company you work for etc etc

msmiggins Tue 10-Dec-13 12:59:35

Although I am athiest and very against what this young lad has been told I do appreciate that the rppts of Santa can be traced back to Pagan times- Odin with his reindeers, Diobysis, and the old man of the forest- the celtic hunting god, Cernunnous, who had cloven hooves and antlers and was bastardized into the christian satan. This is waht upsets the poeople in the church that my family attends.
My sister thinks that we even leave out pagan offerings to Santa- mince pies and biscuits on the alter of the hearth.

I can't imagine how a 4 year old must feel at this time of year with santa images everywhere- in shops, on tv, posters etc. How can the poor thing sleep at night counting down the days till satan pays a visit.


DevonFolk Tue 10-Dec-13 17:36:58

How and when did you and your sister end up with such vastly different beliefs? What were you taught as children?

msmiggins Tue 10-Dec-13 17:51:55

Interesting question Devon. We were not brought up in a faith, I would hesitate to say athiest- religion wasn't really discussed or thought about as a family. My sister left home and married at 16 when I was 10 years old- then emigrated to Australia within a year or two. She then became a born again christian at the age of 20, perhaps lonely, no family support- I can't say.
She threw herself into her faith, and became heavily involved with the church, eventually sending her own two children to a Baptist school. My Athiest views have only deepened over the years.
My sister's children have now grown, one remains committed to the church and is bringing up her own children ( including the 4 year old in the same faith) the other has rebelled and has rejected the church although finds her life an uphill struggle because of early influence.
My sister remains very religious, takes the bible literally, believes Satan is on every street corner and is a creationist.
Religion has caused a great divide and much bad feeling within our family- perhaps why I hold it in such disregard.

SconeRhymesWithGone Tue 10-Dec-13 18:08:53

I live in the US Bible Belt which means I know a lot of Baptists. Some are my relatives. They all have Santa.

This notion may be a feature of some fundamentalist sects, but I am pretty sure that mainstream Baptists in the US do not generally promote this notion of Santa as Satan.

msmiggins Tue 10-Dec-13 18:29:34

I believe its fairly common amongst Baptists in Australia to reject Santa.

specialsubject Tue 10-Dec-13 18:34:25

child abuse. But if it is religion, it seems that it is allowed.

shame on all the parents, may they get what they deserve. And may their children survive this.

msmiggins Tue 10-Dec-13 18:43:13

I agree specialsubject.
My dear niece has accused my sister of abusing her for bringing her up in this way. - Over christmas lunch!! Glad I wasn't there- although I fully support my niece's view.

SconeRhymesWithGone Tue 10-Dec-13 19:02:20

I am aware of people not teaching their children that Santa is real due to religious reasons, but they don't say he is Satan; they say he is make believe. There is a big difference.

Mumrose Tue 10-Dec-13 19:05:16

Poor kidshmm

DevonFolk Tue 10-Dec-13 23:04:24

It's such a sad story msmiggins. I'm a Christian and so I obviously know many Christians, but none with such hardline beliefs. I can see very easily how and why this has caused such a rift in your family and why you've become even more determined in your belief, or lack of.

headinhands Tue 10-Dec-13 23:05:12

Arffing at Christians telling their kids that Santa isn't real and is make believe.

misswishy Wed 11-Dec-13 11:25:21

I must need saving...the house is decked out, windows open, Christmas songs going.

The doorbell rings and four children shout 'daddy'
I said...' no its none of your'll be the postman'

I open the door to two mc jw peddling their brand of religion .

I'm a cm so it's not unusual to me,
But heaven knows what went through their small minds if the look they gave each other is anything to go by!!!!!

Greensleeves Wed 11-Dec-13 17:44:25

there's about as much evidence for Santa as there is for God... possibly more grin

msmiggins Wed 11-Dec-13 18:27:26

Exactly Greensleeves.

TheSporkforeatingkyriarchy Wed 11-Dec-13 18:49:58

Heartbreaking, so wrong to terrify a child like that.

I heard of this when I was young (not from my parents, my mother was obsessed with all things Santa, but from American evangelical ministers - the big TV kind were on a lot in our household). The one that messed with me the most was one (John Hagee) who went on about how Disney and such movies were all filled with Satanic messages and supporting them was supporting the Devil. I ended up black bagging and hiding all my Disney stuff in my closet, I got so upset about it, and I was still very young at this point. I think they're all still in a black bag somewhere in my mother's house. I can still hear him at times, his loud booming voice about how fire burns whether ones believes it or not...

It kinda conditions one to be terrified of everything outside of ones own little nest, it's systematic breaking and indoctrinating to fear everything outside of the fold. It took me a while to get out of it, even though I started questioning in my early teens and even then it was made clear it was very unsafe to be questioning things until I was out of my parents' house.

While we don't do Christmas, I certainly don't terrify my kids with aspects of it - they're welcome to join in with others when invited and we can invite to ours. I try very hard to keep that culture of fear away for my family not, it's very damaging, I think.

msmiggins Wed 11-Dec-13 19:01:15

Are you religious at all Spork? I see you don't celebrate christmas- is that because of your religion?

ZombiePenguin Wed 11-Dec-13 20:24:15

That poor child. He must be terrified. I was brought up Baptist (with very liberal Baptist parents, I am an agnostic btw and chose not to go since I was 11). Why would anyone do this? I can't imagine being surrounded by the thing you are most scared of, presumably, for the child, with everyone seeming all excited and happy about it...

msmiggins Wed 11-Dec-13 20:31:54

Zombie, thing is, it'' his whole nursery class 20 kids who are being fed this rubbish and scared out of their wits.
His mother's view is that he needs to learn of Satan's devious ways so he can safeguard himself. She thinks she is protecting him.

ZombiePenguin Wed 11-Dec-13 21:26:11

I guess the parents want the best for him.

But surely walking down the high street, there will be Christmas decs in the street or shop windows? Or going to Tesco, or another supermarket? M DC haven't ever believed in Santa Claus (cultural/childhood reasons) but it would be like making kids scared of the Tooth Fairy or Thomas the Tank Engine.

msmiggins Wed 11-Dec-13 21:31:00

Zombie, his parents, grandparents and church all think that Satan is everywhere anyway, in music, most kids TV, newspapers and magazines. Part of raising their children is to make them aware of the dangers.
I agree though - it must be a terrifying time of year= there are santa images everywhere.

TheSporkforeatingkyriarchy Thu 12-Dec-13 18:18:44

I used to be, but not now. I was raised in a very religious home (my father's side almost everyone is a minister or a works in religious charity/missionary work), and even when I got out of that and left home I still felt that pull for 'something that has all answers' for a while. I took years to get out of that and only because of philosophies I was already building outside of the faith became in such conflict that I hit crisis point. Now, I have very important traditions and philosophies, but no longer feel a need for a faith nor any desire to believe in those gods or what those faiths say.

Really, I don't celebrate Christmas because I have no fond memories of it and never enjoyed it. It was an incredibly stressful time for me as a child, it was more of a performance for the community than a holiday (because I was the Pastor's granddaughter, I was the children's pastor's niece, we were [father's family] surname and have to be just so in the eyes of others even when behind closed doors my family was a mess) and even my mother's obsession with Santa/Christmas/the belief in it all was in someways now that I look back on it a way to try to counteract that, it was just more stress to me. I just have no desire to connect to that, and find that we've created far more enjoyable traditions outside of it for ourselves that I don't think I could have done within those traditions. Others can, but I really needed to break away from all that and build something on our own and I enjoy this far better.

msmiggins Thu 12-Dec-13 20:57:52

That's a shame Spork. There is so much fun to be found in a secular christmas- I grew up with that and now create a magical christmas for my family with all the fun of santa, trees, stockings, gifts, yule logs- but no mention of the church or jesus.
Just the way we like it.

TheSporkforeatingkyriarchy Thu 12-Dec-13 23:58:46

I don't see it as a shame, and actually find that attitude quite patronizing and annoying. We have our own holidays, spread throughout the year, spreading out the joy, magic, gifts, connection, togetherness, and philosophies - and that's just the way we like it. They are important and valuable to us, we have over a dozen celebrations plus birthdays and anniversaries, to have together as a family throughout the year.

Just because you find it fun, doesn't mean it's for everyone else or that everyone else wants to take part or would enjoy taking part. I have absolutely no desire to add another occasion to the calendar nor do I feel any loss of not having a decorated tree or yule log in my life at this time of year. Why would I want to when I already have so many wonderful events throughout the year, why would I want to add one more, just before one of our favourite traditions, that has no meaning for us and was part of a tradition and belief system that I have no desire to be connected to again in any way, shape, or form - to me, it's a tradition of stress (just look at these message boards and the relief of not being part of that is amazing) and a belief system that colonized my ancestors to the point some died for their traditions and some are far too scared to consider life outside of a colonized lifestyle because the messages past down and still going around about what happens when you stepped outside of the lines are so brutal and life inside of it still so unequal.

We've built something we get a lot of fun out of, something that is part of who we are that connects to our past and to our hopes for the future. And I wish more people could respect and recognise that we have just as much joy and magic in our lives even when the 25th is no more than a day to countdown to New Year's for us. For billions of people, the 25th is just another day, and most of us are quite happy and can have just as much fun with our own traditions. Its not a shame, it's just different from what you know.

I mean seriously, I say that I've never enjoyed Christmas, have no desire to celebrate it and enjoy our own holidays far more, and people so often go 'oh, but our Christmas is fun' as if you enjoying a holiday affects whether or not I will enjoy it aor that it will make me want to take part. Tons of people say that don't bother with New Year's because they find the adult stuff boring, I think people would pull me up on people being different if I went on about how it's such a fun family day with the countdown, and the camp out, and the games, and the eating to the clock, and such, and they would be right to do so, I think.

TwistedRib Fri 13-Dec-13 00:10:41

Baptist here. Ds's both believed in Santa till about the age of 10. Please don't tar us all with the same brush.
The actions of a minority suddenly get assumed to be the majority viewpoint.
Most of us are actually quite normal smile

msmiggins Fri 13-Dec-13 06:50:18

Spork you have displayed some of the bitterness and hostility you feel with your last post- a nice illustration btw.

You celebrate festivals but you are not religious? I don't understand- unless you are wiccan perhaps?

There is such a thing as shared community and society. Schools, village celebrations etc all pay heed to the fact that chistmas is happening in the UK-children especially feel good when they are part of a greater community.
I lived in a Bhuddist country for a while and was happy to take part in many of the fun activities that were organised at special times.

I am interested in your philosophies and keen to understand despite your antagonistic post.

sashh Fri 13-Dec-13 08:24:28

You celebrate festivals but you are not religious? I don't understand- unless you are wiccan perhaps?

That is such an ignorant thing to say. Only slightly less ignorant than

Are you religious at all Spork? I see you don't celebrate christmas- is that because of your religion?

Don't you see how ....... well just wrong.......... that is? The assumption that someone doesn't celebrate a religious festival because they are..... well.....religious?

There are many many festivals that don't have links to religion, many things you can celebrate if you want. Just because one person enjoys one festival it does not mean someone else will.

msmiggins Fri 13-Dec-13 08:28:43

Not at all an ignorant question. Muslims are religious and don't celebrate christmas- I was simply asking if some other religion prevents the PP from celebrating christmas. No need to get on your high horse.

I struggle to think of the many many festivals that don't have links to religion- care to name a few?

revivingshower Fri 13-Dec-13 12:33:39

This just goes to show what happens when you seperate religious beliefs from any form of common sense. I think the two can co-exist, I know some people don't.
If you take the spiritual side (doesn't have to be christian but the loving gratefulness) out of Christmas, that is where the materialistic, over commercialism comes in, but if you go too far and get too puritan about it you suck out all the fun and joy. You have to have that balance and it is the same in a lot of religious things.

Riprap63 Fri 03-Jan-14 21:53:43

Both my kids hate Father Xmas. They found him way too creepy. Tbh it's parents that get the most offended when my dc say he is not real.

Join the discussion

Join the discussion

Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Register now