So I had this child from the local Catholic church for a playdate...

(134 Posts)
SweetSkull Sat 02-Nov-13 11:52:24

We were playing school and they decided it was assembly time.

So Catholic Child (7) stood up and started speaking about catholic faith and Jesus, and how Catholics are wonderful people who help whoever is in need and the elderly, and how Jesus will bless all the Christians when they die and they will all go to heaven, and how it is important to be a Christian and go to Catholic Church and say prayers regularly.

Than Muslin Child (6) followed saying that she is a Muslin and so is her family and lots of her friends and they are also good people who help the ones in need and the elderly too, and it doesn't matter your religion or which church you go to as long and we respect each other and don't do bad things.

Than Catholic child was embarrassed and said that she meant to say everything Muslin child said....

Than my own child (6) stands up and do a comedy piece that got nothing to do with religion.

I was just astounded that these children shows so much religion awareness at this age and the Catholic child would feel the urge to bring religion in the playing, although I understand this is probably what happens all the time at her school.
I am so glad my daughter doesn't go to that school.
I am very proud of the Muslin girl and she just goes to a mixed community school, which seems that is doing a better job about teaching R.E

Oh and I have had the catholic child for a sleep over once and she had trouble falling asleep since I couldn't pray and sing christian songs exactly like her parents do every night. I did my best.

I can't help feeling a bit sorry for this kid.

And I am Christian by the way.

Oh and forgot to say: Catholic girl spent most of half term in her house in order not to be exposed to Halloween stuff going on and in fact on Halloween day they never left the house because apparently this a bad and heavy day when lots of evil things happens.

I am not mad at halloween either and I don't go trick or treating mainly because I am on the shy side but I am solo glad there are Halloween activities going on during the half term.

whitefeathers Sat 02-Nov-13 11:57:49

Muslin?

Shellywelly1973 Sat 02-Nov-13 11:59:27

Really??

headinhands Sat 02-Nov-13 11:59:59

Im guessing the Catholic kid (not entirely happy saying that because I don't think a child of that age has the full cognitive ability to make that sort of decision) but anyway, yeah, she learnt something she won't forget in a hurry. Sad to hear she found it difficult to drop off without the prayers but then again that age is typical for anxieties coming out at bedtime.

DioneTheDiabolist Sat 02-Nov-13 12:01:04

None of the Catholics I know behave in such a way. And I know loads of Catholics.hmm

ixqic Sat 02-Nov-13 12:01:46

"Although I understand this is probably what happens all the time in her school."

Not at any Catholic school I have ever come across. They follow the NC like other state schools do. A small percentage of RE (compulsory for state and VA schools) will be particular to Catholicism.

The scenario you describe sounds very staged or precocious to me.

Tee2072 Sat 02-Nov-13 12:02:58

This reads like a bad racist joke. Muslin?

Isildur Sat 02-Nov-13 12:03:50

Meh, it all sounds a bit odd to me, not least your take on the whole thing.

We're Catholic, not fanatical about it though, and the Catholic school my youngest goes to celebrated Halloween with the best of them. They're doing fireworks on the 5th too. grin

Catholic or not, I'd happily put up with religious spiel of any school with high academic standards and a good general ethos. That means a faith school out here.

MrsBungleScare Sat 02-Nov-13 12:04:56

That sounds one heavy play date!

TheFallenMadonna Sat 02-Nov-13 12:05:51

A catholic, a Muslim and another child walked into a bar had a playdate...

SweetSkull Sat 02-Nov-13 12:06:22

Sorry, should have said as I say in every thread I open. I do not have English as mother language and my English is CRAP.
Muslim
Sorry if I offended anyone. The thread is not racist or a joke.

ixqic Sat 02-Nov-13 12:07:11

Aye yeah lots of screaming and hollering at the Halloween parties at my girls' school every year. I know loads of Catholics but don't know any you describe.

SweetSkull Sat 02-Nov-13 12:07:42

I know lots of catholics too who don't behave that way that is why I am talking about this particular child not the catholic faith.

buss Sat 02-Nov-13 12:08:47

not participating Halloween isn't typical of Catholics IME

I know of Christians who don't participate and won't let their kids watch Harry Potter etc

ixqic Sat 02-Nov-13 12:10:13

So the heaviness with Catholicism / Islam comes from the parent, not the school. That is all I get out of it.

SweetSkull Sat 02-Nov-13 12:11:19

I don't know exactly how this Catholic school operates but I just assumed their assembly is a opportunity to talk about catholic religion since this is what this girl did.

LisaHy Sat 02-Nov-13 12:11:34

This is more to do with the child and her family - the "catholic" bit is irrelevant. Strange post.....

SweetSkull Sat 02-Nov-13 12:14:12

I mentioned their schools because they were playing schools.
So probably imitating what goes on on their schools.
But this is my guess.
I don't mean to cause offence to anyone.

Floggingmolly Sat 02-Nov-13 12:15:11

I've never met a Catholic who behaved this way, and my kids are at Catholic schools hmm. We also have Muslim neighbours; their kids don't mention any aspect of their faith when they're playing either, they're just normal kids.
Are you shit stirring, by any chance?

WhatsHisChops Sat 02-Nov-13 12:15:34

Agree, very strange post. Where are you going with this Catholic Child/Muslim Child business OP? Looks suspiciously like a clumsy goad on community v faith schooling to me...

SweetSkull Sat 02-Nov-13 12:16:32

Why is it a strange post?
Why is it potentially racist or a joke?
Because it is littered with English mistakes, I guess. Well that is my way of trying to integrate in the country I am living.
I better go back to just lurking because TBH any attempt of participating in this site just brings me down TBH

ixqic Sat 02-Nov-13 12:16:33

So assembly in a catholic school may be a place to tell kids it is important to go to church? Hardly surprising.

Isildur Sat 02-Nov-13 12:18:00

What country are you in OP?

Because if I rocked up to my parish priest and announced I wouldn't be venturing outdoors on Halloween because it was a 'heavy day when bad things might happen', he'd probably start wondering about my state of mind.

SweetSkull Sat 02-Nov-13 12:19:35

READ THE OP.
I SAID I WAS SURPRISED TO SEE SO MUCH RELIGION AWARENESS IN SUCH YOUNG CHILDREN AT A FUCK PLAYDATE.
THAT IS WHY I OPENED THE FUCKING THREAD AS THIS IS NIT LEAVING MY FUCKING MIND
JUST REPORT THE THREAD IF YOU THINK IT IS A JOKE, OR I AM RACIST, OR GOADING OR WHATEVER.

Sorry for shouting but I get frustrated now a days with people who does not read the OP and try to make it out to be something sinister.

ixqic Sat 02-Nov-13 12:19:42

No your posts are not limited with mistakes or awkwardness. Your English is fine. But the post does seem like it will become another state vs faith school discussion.

Jakebullet Sat 02-Nov-13 12:19:52

My son attends the local Catholic school, we are Catholic. Do invite him for a play date, he will bore the pants off you about .............Minecraft!

I doubt "religion" would cross his mind once.

ixqic Sat 02-Nov-13 12:20:13

Littered not 'limited'

SweetSkull Sat 02-Nov-13 12:20:35

I am in London for 8 years.
Originally from South America.

SweetSkull Sat 02-Nov-13 12:23:17

READ THE OP.
I SAID I WAS SURPRISED TO SEE SO MUCH RELIGION AWARENESS IN SUCH YOUNG CHILDREN AT A PLAYDATE.
THAT IS WHY I OPENED THE THREAD AS THIS IS NOT LEAVING MY MIND
JUST REPORT THE THREAD IF YOU THINK IT IS A JOKE, OR I AM RACIST, OR GOADING OR WHATEVER.

Sorry for shouting but I get frustrated now a days with people who does not read the OP and try to make it out to be something sinister.

* I have just reported the inappropriate post myself*

ixqic Sat 02-Nov-13 12:24:01

Yeah well, Feliz día de Los Muertos. A centroamericana here.

No need to shout. And I read the OP more than once.

Tee2072 Sat 02-Nov-13 12:24:11

It has nothing to do with your English, although Muslin and Muslim are not at all the same thing, of course, but with your differentiating between the children's religions for what reason?

You could have told the same story without mentioning what kind of school the children attend.

And now you're yelling? Nice.

Isildur Sat 02-Nov-13 12:24:26

Ah London - sorry, thought you might be abroad.

The hysteria about Halloween tends to be confined to more evangelical' churches. Catholics tend not to get so het up about it, as it is really just the eve of All Saints/Souls.

Perhaps the girl's family have a different take on it, but it's probably a cultural influence as opposed to a Catholic one.

Jakebullet Sat 02-Nov-13 12:25:20

I surprised that such young children spontaneously came up with all this. DS attends church ....he moans but attends. I doubt he would think he was superior to anyone else or even associate being kind with being "what Catholics do".
He is kind because I have taught him to be kind and help others. Being Catholic has nothing to do with it at all.

Am shocked that such young children would say such stuff.
Perhaps you could have reminded them that people can be kind without religion.

Honestly my DS has only one religion at the moment and that is Minecraft grin. As I said previously he would honestly bore the pants off you about it.

SweetSkull Sat 02-Nov-13 12:27:12

*It has nothing to do with your English, although Muslin and Muslim are not at all the same thing, of course, but with your differentiating between the children's religions for what reason?

You could have told the same story without mentioning what kind of school the children attend.

And now you're yelling? Nice.*

I am differentiating about children's religion because they started doing it themselves. Did you read the OP ?

Gobbolinothewitchscat Sat 02-Nov-13 12:27:47

Oh God, I'm howling at the FUCK PLAYDATE shouts capitals OP's own and the muslin

Sorry - I know it's very bad form to point out spelling errors OP and I'm certainly very impressed with your written English when it's your second language. It's just, I don't think your post had quite the response you were looking for do thought it might cheer you up to know I think it was very funny grin

SantanaLopez Sat 02-Nov-13 12:28:56

Isn't South America something like 85% Catholic? Surely you've come across children recreating school before?

My SIL (she's 5) doesn't like going to sleep without her prayers, it's just part of her routine.

SweetSkull Sat 02-Nov-13 12:29:18

Thanks Jakebullet, that is how I feel and you get it.
It is good to know I am not going mad. Or am racist to to be surprised about this.

Yes if was totally spontaneous.

ThisIsBULLSHIT Sat 02-Nov-13 12:29:20

FUCK PLAYDATE grin confused

Gobbolinothewitchscat Sat 02-Nov-13 12:29:28

Can everyone please stop earnestly saying muslin I don't think my pelvic floor can cope!

I went to a convent prep school in the seventies and even then we made halloween gubbins.

<,thinks fondly of her dishmop, zif lemon head witch>>

Gobbolinothewitchscat Sat 02-Nov-13 12:30:38

<clutches Bullshit>

SweetSkull Sat 02-Nov-13 12:31:06

The only responde I didn't want to hear is that I am racist, or making a joke since I am genuine.
And I could have written better I know.

LOLisNOTaPunctuationMark Sat 02-Nov-13 12:31:09

I'm Roman Catholic. So is my 5yo daughter. She attends a Catholic school.

They attend mass once a month with the school. They have a 10 minute story from the Children's Bible twice a week at school. They will say a Hail Mary each morning for the sick, and a Grace before Meals before lunch. That's it.

Oh, they also do a Nativity each year (as do lots of schools).

And they love Halloween! They had a Halloween show last week where all the infants sang spooky songs for the parents. And last night was the Halloween disco.

And they have a huge art display for Fireworks night hanging proudly at reception.

There is nothing forced on them. There is nothing 'heavy' taught to them. They are taught about all different religions once they get to about P.3. They are taught to show love and respect to people - not because they are Catholics, but because they are humans.
They are not taught that they are in some way superior because of their religion.

And this was the same when I was at school. All throughout primary and high school. Although in High School, we had RE twice a week. But those classes were spent learning about other religions, going to visit other places of worship, fund raising for charities, learning to respect people's beliefs and faith whatever they may be.

In my opinion, the Catholic child in the OP learnt that speech from her parents/family. That kind of thing would not be taught at school.

SweetSkull Sat 02-Nov-13 12:31:18

response

ixqic Sat 02-Nov-13 12:33:52

Op the reason people wonder if this is a state v faith school post is because MN is full of dead threads on this topic from its inception. And those venal Catholics always get dragged into it.

LOLisNOTaPunctuationMark Sat 02-Nov-13 12:34:35

I don't know exactly how this Catholic school operates but I just assumed their assembly is a opportunity to talk about catholic religion since this is what this girl did.

My daughter's assemblies are used to give awards out to pupils, to discuss upcoming events, and for some children to get up and show off their class work. Not to discuss Catholicism or any other religion.

SweetSkull Sat 02-Nov-13 12:34:35

I just mentioned their school because all the children go to different schools and they were playing school.
I mentioned religion because 2 kids from very different religions came uo spontaneously with this subject.

So a part from spelling mistakes, shouting and swearing, what else Am I doing wrong in opening this thread?

ixqic Sat 02-Nov-13 12:37:27

See my post at 12:33 to see what you are doing 'wrong'.

Tee2072 Sat 02-Nov-13 12:38:21

So the children stood up and said 'I'm 7 and I'm Catholic'?

Because that's not what your OP says.

edam Sat 02-Nov-13 12:40:49

That does sound like a very strange experience. Not surprised you posted about it. Sorry people are being mean to you.

Feel a little sorry the girl who couldn't go to sleep without prayers done the way her parents do them. Bedtimes are when fears come out and children like routine - but of course you would have no idea and it's very kind of you to make the attempt.

When ds has friends for sleep-overs, we have to make an excuse to sneak off and say his bed-time prayers and songs because he's a little embarrassed about anyone overhearing. But still needs the ritual. (For him, it's a way of warding off nightmares, rather than a particularly religious experience - I'm sure God, if He exists, will understand...)

Abra1d Sat 02-Nov-13 12:43:35

This sounds weird and unusual to me, as someone who went to a Catholic primary school and has friends now with children at Catholic primary schools.

We went to Hallowe'en parties. So does my Catholic child.

Just more anti-Catholic fanning on MN.

unlucky83 Sat 02-Nov-13 12:45:27

Our local Church of Scotland held a Halloween party - but none of the children were allowed to dress as anything 'scary' in case it frightened the younger ones ...and were surprised that they only got about 3 children turning up (but of course also most of them were out guising)
And a local preschool group use one of the church halls and wanted to use for a fundraising halloween party in the evening - but it was deemed inappropriate...
So Christians can definitely be a bit hmm about Halloween
But I would suggest the catholic child in question is more indoctrinated by their parents than the school ...and fingers crossed for a teenage rebellion of biblical proportions!

DioneTheDiabolist Sat 02-Nov-13 12:46:06

OP, how does your child know these children?

SaskiaRembrandtVampireHunter Sat 02-Nov-13 12:48:15

"A catholic, a Muslim and another child walked into a bar had a playdate..."

grin

LOLisNOTaPunctuationMark Sat 02-Nov-13 12:49:31

The reason people are getting angry about your OP is because it's blatant Catholic-bashing.

I am so glad my daughter doesn't go to that school.
Why? Have you visited the school? Or are you basing your opinion on it because you witnessed a little girl talk about religion?

I am very proud of the Muslin girl and she just goes to a mixed community school, which seems that is doing a better job about teaching R.E Quite patronising, but also quite anti-Catholic.

Oh and I have had the catholic child for a sleep over once and she had trouble falling asleep since I couldn't pray and sing christian songs exactly like her parents do every night. hmm Quite clearly this heavy religion rubbish is coming from the parents, not the school. I've never sang hymns or prayed with my 5yo at night (except when she saw a dead worm and asked if we could say a Hail Mary for him). We read a bit of Roald Dahl, sing nursery rhymes, read poems - none of which have religion as a theme.

Catholic girl spent most of half term in her house in order not to be exposed to Halloween stuff going on and in fact on Halloween day they never left the house because apparently this a bad and heavy day when lots of evil things happens. As said before, there are about 10 Catholic schools that i know of, all of which celebrate Halloween with gusto as well as Fireworks night.

You should be directing your sympathy and annoyance at the girl's parents. Not at her school, not at Catholic schools, and not at all Catholics.

ixqic Sat 02-Nov-13 12:50:04

Some Christians are hmm about Halloween. Many evangelicals seem to be. I know nothing re the Church of Scotland so I can't comment. Regarding Catholicism in England however it would be a sourpuss v old fashioned priest who would behave that way about Halloween and burdened his parishioners with it.

edam Sat 02-Nov-13 12:52:57

<sigh> It's not 'Catholic-bashing' whatever that is, it's the OP's account of stuff that actually happened.

LOLisNOTaPunctuationMark Sat 02-Nov-13 12:57:21

Well my daughter's school went to mass yesterday (first Fri of each month) and the priest came to the school afterwards with a huge box of sweets for the teachers to hand out. grin

He is very young though and gorgeous grin

Species8472 Sat 02-Nov-13 13:00:53

My DH's family are Irish Catholics and seem to bloody love Hallow'een. There is a lot of dressing up and trick or treating. On the other hand my dad and step-mum are born-again Christians and view Hallow'een as pretty sinister and 'wrong'. They have been known to give out leaflets on the Alpha course to trick-or-treaters.

edam Sat 02-Nov-13 13:01:02

Aw, that sounds lovely, Lol.

ILoveAFullFridge Sat 02-Nov-13 13:02:54

I went to a religious primary school - and I don't mean faith, I mean religious. We weren't taught much about other religions (this was pre-NC). There were plenty of occasions when I found myself on company with children of other religions and we compared notes.

The OP sounds perfectly feasible. Not something I would expect in today's pluralist society and at a state school, though.

ILoveAFullFridge Sat 02-Nov-13 13:08:30

I am very proud of the Muslin girl and she just goes to a mixed community school, which seems that is doing a better job about teaching R.E Quite patronising, but also quite anti-Catholic.

No, neither patronising not anti-Catholic. In fact, the precise reason why my dc go to a non-affiliated school, and I make myself available when they teach Judaism.

SweetSkull Sat 02-Nov-13 13:09:09

I know other kids from the catholic school in question and they celebrate halloween every year. I said the parents were not happy about Halloween, not the catholic school or catholic church.

I know the muslim child because she went to nursery with my child and I became friends with her mum. They are at different schools now since my daughter was given a place in another school but the friendship between us all didn't die.

I know the catholic child because 2,5 years ago, my daughter and the child started playing together at my local playground. So me and the other mother realised we are from the same country and also she had just moved from the area and we became friends.

*I am so glad my daughter doesn't go to that school.
Why? Have you visited the school? Or are you basing your opinion on it because you witnessed a little girl talk about religion?*
I just stupidly assumed that the girls was having a very strict catholic upbringing because of her school but now I see how much of a big role the parents are playing on it. Also some people that I know from their school turns their nose up to every other school in the area - and I am not bashing catholic schools and parents who send their children there now - Even my friend wants to convince me to change my daughter's school to the catholic one, and I am not sure why since I love my daughter school and always did.

I am very proud of the Muslin girl and she just goes to a mixed community school, which seems that is doing a better job about teaching R.E Quite patronising, but also quite anti-Catholic.
I don't see as patronising or anti catholic and I am talking about these particular children and their relationship with their religions/schools. i have never generalised here..or at least wasn't my inattention. But you only have my word for this.

Oh and I have had the catholic child for a sleep over once and she had trouble falling asleep since I couldn't pray and sing christian songs exactly like her parents do every night. Quite clearly this heavy religion rubbish is coming from the parents, not the school. I've never sang hymns or prayed with my 5yo at night (except when she saw a dead worm and asked if we could say a Hail Mary for him). We read a bit of Roald Dahl, sing nursery rhymes, read poems - none of which have religion as a theme.
Agree. But as I never bashed catholic religion.....

Catholic girl spent most of half term in her house in order not to be exposed to Halloween stuff going on and in fact on Halloween day they never left the house because apparently this a bad and heavy day when lots of evil things happens. As said before, there are about 10 Catholic schools that i know of, all of which celebrate Halloween with gusto as well as Fireworks night
Same as above

You should be directing your sympathy and annoyance at the girl's parents. Not at her school, not at Catholic schools, and not at all Catholics
So when did I direct my annoyance at the catholic community in general???? I am not even annoyed but surprised.

SweetSkull Sat 02-Nov-13 13:13:21

I should have posted exactly the same OP but saying religion A and religion B .
Sadly I just had this idea now.

SweetSkull Sat 02-Nov-13 13:26:48

Thread reported by myself

LOLisNOTaPunctuationMark Sat 02-Nov-13 13:36:12

No, neither patronising not anti-Catholic. In fact, the precise reason why my dc go to a non-affiliated school, and I make myself available when they teach Judaism.

What is the your exact reason?

Do you also think that the OP's Catholic girl's speech is a result of her schooling and not her parents doing? There have been several people on this thread who have said they are either Catholics themselves or know Catholics, and don't act in this way.

Catholic pupils are also taught about various religions. The P.7s at my daughter's school are doing a 2-month project about Judaism just now.

I think that there are still far too many people who believe that all Catholics devote their lives to hymns and prayers, refuse to acknowledge others faiths, shield their children from anything not to do with their religion etc. Catholics aren't some sub-species of human. They are normal people with a right to believe in whatever they want, just like Buddhists, Jewish people, Pagans etc.

I have friends at university from all sorts of backgrounds. My opinions of them are based on their personalities, not on their religion, their financial positions, their accents, their race, their sexual orientation, their family situations, the clothes they were. i consider people as individuals. I don't lump them into a category and stereotype them. yet there are so many people who do this quite readily when it comes to Catholics (or Christianity in general). confused

SweetSkull Sat 02-Nov-13 13:42:09

Ok I realised I made the mistake of assuming that her school was only teaching Catholic religion and yadayada, but remember we were playing schools and this child stood up to speak in her 'school assembly' about this.
The thread is reported and sorry if I upset the Catholics. This was not my intention.

ILoveAFullFridge Sat 02-Nov-13 14:20:36

I want my dc to learn about the world we live in, not some bizarre world where other ways of living are ignored. That's why they go to an ordinary school, weekdays, and learn in detail about their specific religion at Sunday school and at home.

I made no assumption about the Catholic school. As I said: "Not something I would expect in today's pluralist society and at a state school, though".

I, too, think the Catholic girl's behaviour relates more to her home environment, reinforced by the Catholic practices of her school. Not all schools are alike in their attitudes and their interpretations of rules and guidelines.

SweetSkull Sat 02-Nov-13 14:30:36

Well
Don't the Catholic schools reinforce the catholic faith at some extent?
Otherwise, what is the point?

InkleWinkle Sat 02-Nov-13 14:41:16

You know that the Catholic faith is Christianity don't you?

SweetSkull Sat 02-Nov-13 14:42:32

Are you talking to me ?
Of course I do!
Did you know Christianity is much wider than Catholicism?

InkleWinkle Sat 02-Nov-13 14:47:08

Yes I do.

But you said in your OP that you are Christian and then said you couldn't pray or sing the Catholic child any songs.

SweetSkull Sat 02-Nov-13 14:50:59

I said I couldn't do it the exactly way her parents DO, whatever she means by that.

Anyway, I was doing the parents a big favour, as I am not keen on sleeping overs however I understand it is needed sometimes and I a guilty to ask friends to accept my child overnight too. But I think that if she has such a strict bed time routine, she shouldn't be sleeping over anyway.

QuintesKabooom Sat 02-Nov-13 14:50:59

"The thread is not racist or a joke."

Well, I get it is not a joke, what I dont get is the point.

You are slagging off a little girl and the way she is brought up. Does her parents know that you pity her? They trust you with their child for sleep overs and play dates, and you, despite being Christian cant find it within you to say a little prayer with her and sing a song?

Surely, being from a South American country, this is not your first encounter with Catholics?

I am also quite amazed that your child has found three children, in different schools to be friends with. That is actually quite awesome.

SweetSkull Sat 02-Nov-13 15:02:22

Oh she knows lots of other children from other schools but in this OP I am talking about only 2. And I am happy I have friends outside the school gate, that is awesome.

Also the point of the thread is:
Again:
I was really surprised that such young children are so aware of religion but maybe it is because my daughter is not as much aware as them, hence she did a comedy piece instead of a religious piece.
My daughter attends my religious group with me and also goes to a Christian after school club by the way.
I was mesmerised by the difference between those children and my child.

I am not slagging off anyone, but yes I pity the girl a little bit, specially when she felt embarrassed listening what the MusliM girl had to say.

Her parents are my friends (both of them) and they don't obviously know that I am pitting her. I respect them and their way of life, I don't even agree or disagree, it is none of my business.

But I am not going to have this child over to sleep again (last time was last year) if she feels so uncomfortable not following her own routine and TBH I would't like religious matters on playdates in my house anyway.

I am glad the MusliM girl responded appropriately and stood up for herself otherwise she would have felt inferior and left out being the only non christian in the house.

I haven't talked about it to any of the parents and I am sure none of them are here on MN.

SweetSkull Sat 02-Nov-13 15:04:07

hahahaha
I did my best to say the prayers and the songs she required, but I am not her parents and I didn't do they way they DO. And I am not sure what it means...
Could be I don't have the same voice or my singing is horrible?
Honestly...

Catchhimatwhat Sat 02-Nov-13 15:51:27

OP you have been rather rudely treated I think!

Sometimes threads go that way, I don't know why! Just go start another one and forget this one!
Some schools are really religious, I don't know why all of a sudden everyone is pretending otherwise.

SweetSkull Sat 02-Nov-13 16:03:52

Hi Catch I am pretty sure it is because the way I speak write.
After so many years in this country it is still a struggle to communicate and put my ideas across in a way that sounds good in English Language.

Pretty much all of my threads are like this.
It is either this reason or I am bad and clearly stupid or don't belong.

I shall keep trying but perhaps MN is not the best place to it.

Anyone knows a dynamic forum full of immigrants learning English and leaving in Britain?

Gingerdodger Sat 02-Nov-13 18:51:52

I am sorry that you feel excluded. I think one of the reasons people have struggled to know how to respond to this thread is that you posted a story, told in isolation, that appeared to make generalisations about groups of people based on one experience. I think the fact that you named the different religions is neither here nor there but I do think your post would have been received better had you opened it up to questions such as 'are these generally held Catholic views?' 'do other posters have similar experiences of children at Catholic or faith schools?'.

I am assuming that you were using the post to explore these issues so have responded as such.

Firstly, although I accept that the Catholic child may have not expressed herself so articulately, the fact that she quickly became embarrassed by what the Muslim child said suggests that perhaps her praise for Catholics didn't mean that she was trying to say only Catholics were good people. Also when she said it was important to be Christian and say prayers if she was repeating what was said to Catholic children in a Catholic school assembly then yes it would be important to them to behave in a Christian way. Unless she said otherwise I cannot see how this means everybody HAS to be Catholic or even Christian but perhaps I am missing something.

I also don't see why it would be strange that children playing school would choose to react an assembly and for children at faith schools in particular that is
likely to include religious aspects.

Most Catholics (including me) have no problem with Halloween. Some Catholics and Christians see it otherwise but most don't in my experience.

Again I am assuming that your comments about the faith school are to explore if faith schools are giving their pupils very narrow definitions of faith, morality and humanity. My own personal experience is not so. I have found Catholic schools to be warm and welcoming and that there is coverage of other faiths in RE. I have to say that my experience of my children's RC school is that it is the most inclusive place I know welcoming children of all faiths and none and many children who other schools have failed to manage who have thrived there.

Finally the issue of bedtime routine. I would question whether any child who cannot function without a particular bedtime routine is old enough to sleep out but can't see anything particularly controversial about a child saying prayers or even singing a hymn at bedtime if being raised in a given faith. Obviously others will not like this as they may see as indoctrination but no more so that the initial choice to raise a child in a faith.

Sorry this is so long but I hope these comments were helpful.

Abra1d Sat 02-Nov-13 20:14:41

I didn't notice anything particularly different about your way of writing. I simply noticed that you made generalisations about a group based on one encounter with one child, saying 'it probably happens all the time' at her school. Based on what evidence?

lonnika Sat 02-Nov-13 20:20:04

Why do you feel sorry for her exactly ????? It sounds like you have a problem not her tbh

SweetSkull Sun 03-Nov-13 08:50:58

Ginger, your comments were very helpful , thanks. But I was there and I guarantee that the catholic girl were articulated enough in saying that only catholic people are worthy. I guess she got embarassed because she probably saw my positive reaction to the other girl speech. And yes I feel sorry for her since she has been brainwashed this way and it will cause her problems in the future. And I suspect this is parents doing but the school is just reinforcing it, I bet that is exactly what is going on in the assemblies. They played house too and no religion were involved. Regarding prayers at bedtime, I have never criticized this practice but I do think if a child needs such particular ritual , than they should sleep at home. Now twist the OP and pretend the Muslim girl is preaching about Islam and how only Muslim people are good and will go to heaven. I bet the response here would be very different. Now just to leave this thread let me say yet again that I am Christian myself and Catholic faith has played a big part in my upbringing and life. My intention was definitely not to generalise or criticize the Catholic community as a whole. I dont even want to crticize the girls parents since they are my friends snd even though they are narrow minded ("against" homosexuals, father's job to earn money and mother's job to stay at home, girls like pink and boys like blue) they are still lovely people and I dont think they reflect much about their faith in the modern world, they seemed brainwashed themselves. My friend wouldn't come with me to visit St Pauls Cathedral in London because it is an anglican church.

lonnika Sun 03-Nov-13 08:55:04

Sounds like parents gave problems - why relate it to religion - you say yourself they are not reflective of catholic faith !

SweetSkull Sun 03-Nov-13 09:12:53

I said I don't think they reflect how to carry on their faith in the modern world. I think. But I usually don't discuss religion with them or anybody else, but from their views they seem not very reflective of christian values since not accepting gay people TO ME is against christian values for example. I THINK they swallow what they are told and that is it, but this is just MY understanding of them. Now you asked me why relate it to religion, did you read the OP? Religion is a crucial part of my OP and besides, I can relate it to whatever I want.

lonnika Sun 03-Nov-13 09:48:38

MMMMMM - OK OP - mot sure of the point you are trying to make really - you feel sorry for a girl being brought up by a strong catholic teachings because she couldn't sleep at a sleepover at your house ? Is that your point?

Mitzyme Sun 03-Nov-13 09:57:23

So which thread are we using?

MinionDave Sun 03-Nov-13 10:00:37

My dc go to a catholic school and don't learn anything like this. The school even had a halloween disco

SweetSkull Sun 03-Nov-13 10:00:55

The point of the thread is what you make of it

lonnika Sun 03-Nov-13 10:07:07

Utter rubbish with no point then smile

SweetSkull Sun 03-Nov-13 10:18:09

And I dont feel sorry for the girl because she cant sleep whitout her parents rituals. Feel sorry that at the age of 7 and beyond she will feel more and more embarassed and unconfortable when her narrow views about how superior she is for being catholic are challenged.

lonnika Sun 03-Nov-13 10:21:32

Aha so it is about 'her' catholic beliefs. Don't worry OP I am sure she will be fine - I have met many people in my life who believe they are superior, whether it be due to class, wealth, education or religion. Put your energies into worrying about other causes, like starving children etc.

headinhands Sun 03-Nov-13 11:06:32

I think you can feel sad about a young child parroting religious doctrine during a play date and still feel upset about world famine. They're not mutually exclusive.

lonnika Sun 03-Nov-13 11:08:10

I never said they were smile

gorionine Sun 03-Nov-13 11:18:50

Wow, when I played school and when my Dcs did, we never bothered having an assembly, we were just quite content to take it in turn to be the bossy one!

SweetSkull Sun 03-Nov-13 11:21:12

Ionn

SweetSkull Sun 03-Nov-13 11:27:22

Ionnika, I am not sure what is your problem, I suspect you don't understand what I am trying to say and you don't accept or believe that I have absolutely not against Catholic faith or catholics in general. You are trying to twist my words and looking for a fight or you just have narrow views yourself, either way I don't care about anything you say.

headinhands Sun 03-Nov-13 11:36:04

I know the kids have been playing schools when I find wads of A4, and each and every sheet being rendered useless for 'growned up' purposes by way of a solo felt tip mark. Argh.

lonnika Sun 03-Nov-13 11:37:14

Sweet skull - a fight about what? Not looking for a fight. You are sending mixed messages - you say you are not anti catholic - but then say you feel sorry for the girl because of how embarassed she wil be when catholic beliefs are challenged as you gets older - what? Don't understand what your thread is about and would suggest you are being controversial.
I am glad you don't care about what I say - if only you could afford that same non judgemental luxury to your child's 'friend' !!!

headinhands Sun 03-Nov-13 11:44:32

I understand the op's concerns, but then again I would, being a full blown baby-eating atheist. I think it was the setting that was the main cause for the op's 'hmm'. It wasn't as if the kids were being asked about their beliefs, from what the op describes it was almost like listening to a tape recording being played. But am aware I'm bringing my own bias into this.

ILoveAFullFridge Sun 03-Nov-13 11:55:28

Feel sorry that at the age of 7 and beyond she will feel more and more embarassed and unconfortable when her narrow views about how superior she is for being catholic are challenged.

This makes complete sense to me. Again, coming from my own background and my own experience of a religious school. Although I grew up in a practicing Jewish home, my parents were far less religious than the school we attended. At school we weren't taught that Jews were superior, or had exclusive access to heaven or god (these are categorically not Jewish beliefs) but we were taught in an atmosphere that ignored the concept of other ways of life or belief. Thanks to my parents I met and soicialised with people of other faiths outside school. I was probably a little older than the child mentioned when I first felt embarrassment at my assumption that other children felt or believed the same as me. About Y4, IIRC. But because of my parents' open-mindedness I was able to explore this realisation and widen my knowledge of other faiths. Kids talk about things that matter to them, and if their religion is central to their lives, it comes into their play, role-playing, and conversation.

SweetSkull Sun 03-Nov-13 12:14:02

Ionnika. I believe that the " catholic" views if this particuar chid are wrong because simply catholic people aren't superior and better than anybody else just by attending a church. Not all if them are good, not all of them help the poor and the elderly, not all if them say their prayers and there is a hell lot of non catholic people out there that are amazing. Also a huge percentage of parents in her catholic school attend the church just to get a place there and dont give a F about Jesus and are hypocrates. I know my area well and know lots of people from the schools in my area since when my daughter was a newborn so I know what I am talking about. So yes, I believe this girl's "catholic" views are screwd up and it is sad.

holycowwhatnow Sun 03-Nov-13 12:17:40

Halloween started in Ireland (or at least we claim it). It marks the Celtic festival of Samhain. Then when the Christians came, they tried to make it christian by tying it in with all souls day on nov1st. I grew up in Ireland when it was VERY catholic and Halloween was one of the biggest day in every child's year. I'm now a very lapsed Catholic but threads like this get my goat.

lonnika Sun 03-Nov-13 12:20:58

As I said before - don't worry OP many people think they are superior to others due to a variety of things., class, education, wealth, race etc a from the sounds of it she will do just fine - she agreed with the Muslim child so she can'see' things from others point of view - I would suggest she will alter her views as she grows older and will turn out great smile.

SweetSkull Sun 03-Nov-13 12:36:16

Well I dont think that teaching children they are superior for whatever reason is just fine. But I agree to disagree with you. Also I think I have the right to be sad that a narrow religious view brought up by a guest child at a playdate in my own house could potentially cause distress to another child from a different religion. Same way I have the right to feel proud when instead of feeling inferior the other child stood up for herself and her beliefs. I am also entitled to my own feelings and have the right to discuss this here even if you think it is pointless.

ninah Sun 03-Nov-13 12:40:09

I think it sounds like a great discussion among the dc, tbh. They sorted it out themselves. No issue.

the catholic halloween thing is a myth. it is the eve of all saints day and so celebrated - anyone who doesn't know this - as a catholic is a misinformed twat

in fact it could be argued that trick and treating originated from soul cakes - which used to be baked and then kids would go door to door for them - this is in the middle ages.

ninah Sun 03-Nov-13 12:44:49

I teach at a Catholic school where Hallowe'en isn't allowed a mention. Was similar at my last school (C of E) too. Am not a big fan of Hallowe'en myself, but I never really got why.

SweetSkull Sun 03-Nov-13 13:06:13

I mentioned the halloween to show how this child is living a 'sheltered' life because of religion. Not participate in halloween festivities is fine. Not leaving the house to avoid exposure to halloween merchandising not so fine.

lonnika Sun 03-Nov-13 15:25:35

The Halloween thing sounds dodgy but not a catholic teaching as far as I am aware. In fact my bf is a practising catholic with strict catholic views and she took her dc trick or treating. NB her dc go to a catholic school and she went out with another 'school' mum and her children.

As for the sheltered life - I don't think so - really sheltered would not being able to 'mix' with children from different religions

sashh Sun 03-Nov-13 17:55:20

OP

Love the idea of your child doing the comedy sketch.

Oblomov Sun 03-Nov-13 18:04:21

Ds's at catholic school. They discuss all religions lovingly. And know that many people do not believe in any god or have any following.
Ds1 visited a Sikh temple last week.
So I don't think your findings are across the board.

SweetSkull Sun 03-Nov-13 18:31:18

sassh I was so shocked by the other girls ability to discuss religion that at that time and even now I don't know what to make of my daughter's reaction.

SweetSkull Sun 03-Nov-13 18:39:47

Ionnika, I said 'sheltered' life more for lack of better word. Did you notice the " ".?

And to be honest the only time this child have contact with non Christian people is when she is with me because her mum doesn't mix. In fact if I wasn't Christian myself she wouldn't be such a close friend, I don't think.

ixqic Sun 03-Nov-13 22:28:11

"Not leaving the house to avoid exposure to halloween merchandising not so fine."
For this reason alone I don't want to leave the house. grin

"the only time this child have contact with non Christian people is when she is with me because her mum doesn't mix"
Then I should think that her mum will fall out with you when she finds out you are exposing her to muslins. hmm

SweetSkull Sun 03-Nov-13 22:41:27

nope. she knew this muslim friend is always around and she knew muslim friend was already with me when she asked for the play date. funny how her religious priorities change when she is in need, hence the sleep over.

did also not leave the house on Halloween day fearing something evil and sinister would happen?

DioneTheDiabolist Mon 04-Nov-13 19:16:13

Well her mum obviously does mix. She mixed sufficiently with you in the park to trust you enough to look after her DD overnight. I have never met anyone in the park that I have swapped numbers with, nevermind develop such a strong friendship.

lonnika Mon 04-Nov-13 20:01:34

MMM lots of inconsistencies

If her family were religious zealots then they would not compromise this for 'childcare' smile

SweetSkull Mon 04-Nov-13 20:20:12

Dione that is your experience. It does not mean everyone's is the same.
Pretend you are at a playground in a area/country you have just moved in, you are a foreigner and does not speak the language and have no many friends leaving near by. Now you meet someone who is from your country, speak your language and also has similar religious belief (at least the main part which is Christianism). On top of that your children are similar age and get on well together. See how it was easy to exchange numbers and develop a friendship? She didn't send her daughter for a sleep over straight away, but after a year or so.

Ionnika yep inconsistencies. You want to believe I am a liar. Fine.

MeMySonAndI Mon 04-Nov-13 20:24:10

I'm surrounded by Catholics, some are very religious, some are moderate and most, like me, are non practicing Catholics. My son attends a catholic school and I have not encountered a child like the one you mention... But once.

I was putting them to bed during a sleepover, and she (5 yr old) fell quite dramatically on her knees by the side of a bed for her prayers then looked back at DS and recoiled in horror before saying WHAT?!?!? doesn't he pray at night??? there was such intensity in her words I still cringe at the memory. Her mum was very verbal about her belief that Catholics hold the absolute truth. Admittedly she belonged to the Opus but... I suppose every religion has its share of fanatical/extremist people...

ethelb Tue 05-Nov-13 09:56:46

It's odd that you had a catholic round who behaved like a particuarly 'heavy going' christian from an evangelical church about halloween. hmm

SweetSkull Tue 05-Nov-13 11:11:59

I'm not sure about what you are trying to say nor what you are implying by saying "it's odd"

Honestly I can't comprehend why some people here are having hard time in believing in my OP.

Also bare in mind that these child's parents are Catholics from other country so their way to practicise their faith might be not similar to the way people are used to do overhere. They also travel to the city centre every weekend to worship with people from their country is this special group created from and to immigrants from this particular country, when there are plenty of Catholic churches near where they live...even the church in front of the school their child go to....but I can not comment further on Catholic practices differing between countries since I'm not Catholic. However I visited their group once after their baby baptism and during a prayer after the ceremony, some people spoke in languages, whatever it means.....there were also some singing and dancing involved and the priest wasn't participating, so I guess this isn't very traditional.

Also, in the country where they (we) come from, Halloween is not celebrated at all. It's not part of our culture and nobody cares, most people don't even know what it is.

ethelb Tue 05-Nov-13 20:20:37

So now she is a child who goes ot the local catholic church who doesn't actually go to the local catholic church.

Are you sure they are catholic? That church sounds like an evangelical church.

msmiggins Tue 05-Nov-13 20:27:21

Halloeen can be traced back much further than the beginnings of christianity.
silver-fish.hubpages.com/hub/halloween-turnips

SweetSkull Tue 05-Nov-13 21:02:14

Of course I am sure they are Catholic, my English isn't amazing but I am not dumb.

This family attends a catholic church that is at least 1 hour away from their home. It is a Catholic church with a Catholic priest. The reason why they are willing to travel there every week is because after the traditional mass, the immigrants congregate in a room and do their thing in their language.

They do go to the Catholic church situated in front of the Catholic school only when there is school function or they are invited for a Christening, 1st Communion, etc...

Oakmaiden Tue 05-Nov-13 21:09:28

I think there are catholic schools and catholic schools, to be honest. I taught for one day (supply teacher) in a RC school, and it was VERY religious. An awful lot of praying and crossing themselves, and most of the lessons had a religious "slant" to them - in a fairly primary school way that is. As a confirmed atheist it was a true test of my professionalism...

SO I quite easily believe that this child's school might have things that the OP has mentioned going on in their assembly...

Oakmaiden Tue 05-Nov-13 21:12:00

Though actually looking at the 2nd to last post from the OP - speaking in tongues and the priest not being the focus does NOT sound at all Roman Catholic... If I remember my history correctly, one of the main reasons for the protestant churches splitting off from the catholic was to do with the place of the priest a a conduit to God... or something to that effect...

SweetSkull Tue 05-Nov-13 21:18:08

Thanks Oakmaiden for your input as a teacher.

The priest IS the focus during the mass, however these immigrants have permission to use one of the church rooms to congregate, pray, discuss and speak in tongues, sing/dance in their foreign language. Of course they appreciate and respect the priest and the mass but they also want to praise in their language. Lots of them don't even speak proper English.

Oakmaiden Tue 05-Nov-13 21:29:42

That is interesting, actually. I have just gone away and done a bit of digging, and apparently there is a sect of the Roman Catholic Church called the Catholic Charismatic renewal who worship "outside mass" and do faith healing, speaking in tongues and stuff. I didn't know that.

SweetSkull Tue 05-Nov-13 21:51:40

Ah, thanks Oak for finding and posting this information here.

I could post various links here, the girl's school/the church by the school/the church her family attends/the name of the charismatic group I am talking about...

But that would be too much RL info...

ethelb Tue 05-Nov-13 22:53:57

Well why didnt you at any stage differentiate? They sound pretty niche, and arguably any sect isnt truely catholic. Quite literally.

willyoulistentome Tue 05-Nov-13 23:01:27

Sounds very odd and not typical at all.
Yesterday I actually had SIX Catholic children over for a playdate/party. NOBODY said grace when we ate, mentioned Jesus or prayed. (They played on Minecraft!). SOME Catholics are against Halloween. They don't really talk about it either way, at our school like they do in some, but I know for a fact that several of the kids we had over yesterday went trick or treating, as have we, in the past. (Managed to dodge having to do it it this year as we were away - phew)

MeMySonAndI Wed 06-Nov-13 19:49:39

Oak, that is not a sect but a way of worship, you see this "sect" workshiping happily in bog standard catholic churches during the week.

As someone mentioned, there are different stukes if worshiping and despite all being catholic, the differences between country to country, and region to region can be huge, without them making them less catholics.

And yes, speaking in tongues can happen, even during catholic praying...

MeMySonAndI Wed 06-Nov-13 19:50:19

Stukes? Styles! Even

Oakmaiden Thu 07-Nov-13 22:26:34

MeMy - that is what you get when your only source of info is internet based - thank you for correcting me. It isn't something I know anything about personally - just was interested by the thread so did some poking around smile

Join the discussion

Join the discussion

Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Register now