hideous hymns, vocal vicars and theatrical thuribles. Religious Chat Thread Number 6!

(1000 Posts)
nickelbabe Sun 17-Feb-13 19:24:28

Welcome to the Religion Chat thread.
We're mostly Christians, but all are welcome.
a lovely soace to talk about church life, spiritual journeys and stuff in general.
It's not about debate, it's about chat.
Come oldies and newbies!

this is the previous thread

<gets comfy on the sofa with a brew and biscuit>

SESthebrave Sun 17-Feb-13 20:10:45

Thanks for the new thread Nickel smile

niminypiminy Sun 17-Feb-13 20:29:13

Fab title nickel. <settles down with cup of tea and biscuit oh no it's Lent

nickelbabe Sun 17-Feb-13 20:44:32

I only changed one word.

biscuit are not real so you can have as many as you like grin

MaryBS Mon 18-Feb-13 07:57:19

I missed that we had a new thread - copied from old:

I wish my church had a sense of belonging for the older kids. Why do the adults (without kids) say "its their age, they're going to drift away". Mine is drifting away because what they do at church for youth is absolutely ZILCH! Had a long chat with my vicar last week where I suggested I drop all other work and become youth minister, I feel that strongly about it! (So, I would be Reader only to youth, no more leading/preaching at normal services, I would stop producing the newsletter, I would stop being assistant treasurer and I would stop running the house group). I don't think she wants that, but if no-one comes forward, and we HAVE asked, radical problems require radical solutions! Anyway, rant over!

As an RC, I stopped going to confession when I went one time and all the priest said was "very good". Actually it wasn't very good, which was why I was confessing. It made me want to confess something like murder just to see whether he said very good! blush. At Reader selection I was asked my views on confession, and I said that I confessed before God, but if there was something I needed to discuss with a priest, I would do so - got told "that is a very protestant answer" blush grin - don't think it was what they were expecting, I think that was supposed to be my "hard and challenging question"! LOL

MadHairDay Mon 18-Feb-13 10:04:40

Oooh lovely nickel <grabs biscuits off niminy>

Good idea to change lovely to vocal so they all alliterate in themselves! Alliteration is important to me, doncha know grin

Mary, yes, yes, yes. So many churches seem to be this way sad We're lucky with the church we're in at the moment, the pathfinders group is quite good and they have a well attended youth group. DD seems fairly happy with it all. Trying to persuade them to take the young people to Soul Survivor - it can do wonders for this age group and their commitment to God. Your suggestion about being youth minister will hopefully get the leadership thinking and realising something does need to be done. When we have dc approaching this age we see the importance of it all.

Confession: I'd never really given it a lot of thought, not being RC, but since we formed our core team here we have a kind of thing where we are accountable to each other spiritually, and there's a sort of way we're confessing, it's very cathartic and definitely makes you think about what you are doing and especially about how much time you are giving to God etc. There is something in it I think - not sure how I'd feel about the traditional RC confession with a priest behind a grille though....but I can see how it does work for some.

SES, happy birthday for yesterday and lovely dh to sort you out a party smile

nickelbabe Mon 18-Feb-13 10:09:40

oh, mary, that would be fabulous if you could be youth minister.
some of the things you do would still be doable - the newsletter for example.

but how exciting would that be! I'm imagining visits to schools and cplloges and youth evenings and evening services just for them etc.

nickelbabe Mon 18-Feb-13 10:15:09

hmm.
I wonder if the origins of confession had more to do with the priest keeping tabs on everyone than it did naming sins.

I can see it being useful for makingsure you see and recognize what you've done, but how much would youactually name when it came to it?

Oh new thread - lovely. Shouldn't be here as should be sorting out funeral but a virtual biscuit and cuppa would be great. Thank you!

I really like the idea of a breakfast club style junior church - cafe church for the under 12s perhaps? Feeding bodies as well as minds and building community at the same time.

SES - happy Birthday and Mary the Youth Minister idea sounds fab.

niminypiminy Mon 18-Feb-13 10:36:34

Mary the youth minister thing does sound great -- what age group are you thinking of -- once they are old enough to go to Soul Survivor there are more things out there for them, but I think the 11-14 age group is normally pretty poorly catered for.

Also I just don't know enough about this, but istm that things like Soul Survivor are great if that's the kind of thing you like -- it definitely wouldn't have been for me as a teenager. And they're also skewed towards a kind of charismatic-evangelical style of being a Christian which also won't be right for some teenagers. If you're all gothy and into painting your bedroom black and writing tortured poetry for example. I don't think this is going any more but it's an interesting, different model of how you might do church for teenagers/young adults.

nickelbabe Mon 18-Feb-13 10:54:18

I think the goths would suit my church style better! grin

maybe encourage them to learn instruments and set up a band.
you could incorporate history of church music too.
would be wonderful to get some young organists....

MaryBS Mon 18-Feb-13 11:15:16

I am thinking of the 11-16 age group. Which includes my 2. We used to have a youth minister, but he had to give up, and its not proving to be a priority it seems. The point I was trying to make to the church though is that someone should be doing these things, I really am not the ideal person to do it because of my children, it should be someone else. But if I see its not getting done, then I will quit all my other jobs to do it (so newsletter not possible grin )

MaryBS Mon 18-Feb-13 11:16:01

And mine are DEFINITELY not goths! grin

nickelbabe Mon 18-Feb-13 11:16:30

I know what put me off church when I was a teenager.
I was too old for Sunday school so did the whole service.
I always wanted to be in the choir but my mum wouldn't let me.

everyone I knew my age didn't go to church and I was bullied for going. it would have helped me for some of the persecuted christians in history to have been taught to me. I would have liked a church youth group rather than uniformed groups like guides. but one thing I hated was the born again attitude. the whole gushing jesus loves you speech and melty lovely christians.
a youth church in midweek that had proper grownup music and maybe even peer preachers would have been great.
so, not adults preaching to me about god's love and flower skipping but proper, gritty church that everyone played a part in.
so I didn't feel like the only normal teenage christian in the world.

all the youth groups in my area were rough and you couldn't even go if you were unpopular. but church things were happyclappy progressive and modern

a teenager knows everything so things that are supposed to appeal to the youth are normallypretty condescending.

nickelbabe Mon 18-Feb-13 11:21:15

I think your children are the ideal reason why you're perfect for the job actually.

they can help you see what's good and what's proper embarrassing. and they can help by being the first peer preachers or helpers. you do all the youth ministry work - the background, the publicity, the working with schools etc and most of the stuff, and they can be tje face of your 11-16s. they can lead it, help in it and ultimately let the youth see that it belongs to them, not some grownup who obviously knows nothing because how could they possibly know what it's like to be a teenager? they're so old

nickelbabe Mon 18-Feb-13 11:25:25

and let the kids guide you.

wgen you visit secondary schools, ask them what they want from church. why don't they go? what would bring them in?
play them music and ask what type they prefer forchurch. do they want pop/rock music for church or do they want organs and choirs?
if you get a split of opinion, you can do both in each "service"
try one over the other.
ask them what kind of language they want - read them the lord's prayer in different translations, quote different bibles, read them christian poetry etc.

nickelbabe Mon 18-Feb-13 11:28:11

I am probably willing to accept that today's youth don't necessarily want thees and thous, but I also think that what is seen as catering to today's teens is a step too far - it's trying too hard to be "in with the kids" and missing the mark by miles.

they think they're grownups, they want tobe treated to (a very watered down version of) grownupness

niminypiminy Mon 18-Feb-13 11:28:14

nickel you are so right about the gushing jesus loves you speech and melty lovely christians. I spent most of my teenage years in dire depression and running away from melty loveliness and gushing. It's not the goth thing in my link that I thought was particularly good, it was the willingness to speak to the dark side of yp's lives, not in a gushy, flower skipping kind of way, but in a proper, gritty way.

nickelbabe Mon 18-Feb-13 11:44:43

ooh tgis is interesting

I just found it looking for the fast show's christian lady

niminypiminy Mon 18-Feb-13 12:02:13

Nickel this one is for you smile

newlark Mon 18-Feb-13 12:26:24

Marking my place on the new thread smile am trying to cut down on MN for lent but am waiting in for phone call about emergency hosp appt for dd so having my first peek at threads for over a week as a diversion while I wait...

jaynebxl Mon 18-Feb-13 12:33:12

Just read that goth link ... Is anyone here from Cambridge? I thought that was still going on but it doesn't look like it from the calendar.

niminypiminy Mon 18-Feb-13 13:00:32

I'm in Cambridge -- actually I checked and 'on the edge' is still going on -- the web site has moved. <curious> are you in the Cambridge area too?

jaynebxl Mon 18-Feb-13 13:14:05

Yes!

jaynebxl Mon 18-Feb-13 13:14:58

Ah I was pretty sure it was still going on.

thanksamillion Mon 18-Feb-13 14:46:09

Hello, just checking in to the new thread.

nickelbabe Mon 18-Feb-13 15:26:29

I got an email in reply to my crazy homework from NV.
He had obviously read it Saturday night (according to the email reply)
"Not crazy!
Thank you so much for taking the time to write this - very helpful. "

ahem.
blush

Yay nickel I think NV is going to be a real blessing for your parish! smile

I want to start up a group for youngsters aged 13+ in the parish, as youth club finishes when they turn 14. Haven't figured out content/activities yet though or when to hold it.

niminypiminy Mon 18-Feb-13 15:59:22

nickel that's excellent! I agree he is clearly A Good Thing.

nickelbabe Mon 18-Feb-13 16:02:35

a real blessing until something goes horribly wrong.

It just seems too-good-to-be-true at the moment.

Oh niminy you were too quick, was going to write <clap clap> wink

nickelbabe Mon 18-Feb-13 16:40:31

Mary
It might be helpful to contact other churches and ask them what they do and how it works and whether it is successful

ooh, I'm really excited now, I do hope you do it!

nickelbabe Mon 18-Feb-13 17:33:45

you filled my thread with Graham Kendrick lyrics

i don't love any of you anymore.
<sulks>

niminypiminy Mon 18-Feb-13 18:15:45

Aww, it was only in fun. We still love you.

(Sorry, blue I got carried away blush)

nickelbabe Mon 18-Feb-13 18:35:13

ah now the <clap clap> thing makes sense!

it should be <clap-cl-clap> though.

SESthebrave Mon 18-Feb-13 21:12:39

Mary - how exciting! I agree, it could be a brilliant vocation. FWIW, my personal experience as a teenager was positive when we were allowed to discuss things in an open environment where we would be respected, challlenged and affirmed. For example topics such as abortion, Jesus' divinity & humanity, Justice & Peace issues.

Re confession, it was something I thought a lot about when becoming RC and I can really see the benefits and the riches it brings. It is often done face to face now and not behind a grille. You normally have the option. Every priest I've ever spoken to has spoken very humbly about it. It is amazing to hear the words of absolution and I find the preparation and examination of conscience part of the sacrament extremely helpful. What I find hard is purely a personal thing as I worry that it can become a bit of a counselling session. That in itself is not necessarily a bad thing but I had a bad experience when at uni. My ex BF threatened me with a knife and I was beating myself up because I couldn't forgive him. A friend recommended a Christian counsellor. At the 2nd session, on finding out my Dad was an alcoholic, she suggested that he had abused me as a child. When I told her that I really didn't think he had, she suggested that I had blocked the memory.
I've never really told anyone that so excuse me for offloading but that's why I have an issue with Confession.

MaryBS Mon 18-Feb-13 21:20:54

No seriously, its only what I said I'll do if I have to!

MadHairDay Mon 18-Feb-13 21:54:20

I love that blog you posted, niminy smile

I've possibly done the melty nicey phase and the dark depressive phase. There's room for both, I think, as long as done from a genuine spirit. The problem with the gushy Jesus one is that it's been overdone as a hypocritical stereotype. People can actaully be gushy in a meaningful way, if their lives reflect it, and if it listens to other people, iyswim.

I don't agree that some of the stuff is missing the mark to try and be in with the kids nickel, I think a lot of it now is authentic and just where they are at. My dd responds so well to stuff like Soul Survivor and loves that type of worship, I can see that not all would, and there needs to be stuff for them too. But by and large I think the culture now is more for that kind of thing and that is what draws them in. smile

Hahaha at the Graham lyrics filling up the thread grin

SES that's a horrible memory for you sad I can see why you are not sure about confession. Unfortunately, one person can mess things up. Not at all what you needed at the time sad

nickelbabe Mon 18-Feb-13 22:05:43

mhd. if a lot of it is authentic and just where they are at then it follows that some of it isn't wink

sorry mary, you've signed up now! winkgrin

niminypiminy Mon 18-Feb-13 22:20:01

I'm all a-flutter! I've just written to ask if I can go to the regional ministerial training course open day next month! That was such a difficult thing to do -- like Indiana Jones putting his foot out over the chasm -- all my cautiousness is telling me that I'll never get selected, and that I'm just setting myself up for an almighty (sorry, didn't think of the pun there, the word just came out) disappointment -- it's taken me ages to pluck up the courage and send the email, and to say in it that I hope to start training in the autumn.

How exciting! Go for it.

nickelbabe Tue 19-Feb-13 08:43:55

yeay! you've got to go for it smile
well done and good luck

MadHairDay Tue 19-Feb-13 10:04:50

Yay! That's brilliant niminy. Go for it, you'll be brilliant smile

OK nickel, yes that follows. Was just feeling fairly down last night and felt a bit stroppy. Ignore me.... grin

hiddenhome Tue 19-Feb-13 22:38:34

SESthebrave that was so unprofessional of that counsellor sad I find that, in confession, the priest will answer any questions you have about improving your faith and avoiding sin in the future, but wouldn't foist stuff like that onto you.

niminypiminy Tue 19-Feb-13 22:49:37

MHD hope you have been feeling better today.

hiddenhome Tue 19-Feb-13 22:56:39

I am failing in my Lent promises sad I promised not to want to choke the living crap out of people have bad thoughts about people, but did a long shift yesterday and everything just came flooding in and I failed. Work is my achilles heel.

niminypiminy Tue 19-Feb-13 23:05:48

hiddenhome don't be sad: we all fail, all the time. I've managed precisely no days doing my 'no sugar' promise -- dh has even given up teasing me.

I came across this on another (nautically themed Christian) forum -- it was about why we always get annoyed by people in church, but it could apply to anywhere, really. I find it very comforting:

"Sure the Church lets me down. It's full of bastards, and has 2000 years of bastardry in its history. But I'm a bastard too. That's why I need Jesus. He isn't."

hiddenhome Tue 19-Feb-13 23:18:35

ha, ha I like that niminypiminy smile

jaynebxl Wed 20-Feb-13 07:29:06

SES I'm appalled at that counsellor.

Niminy what is that day? Is it with a view to vicar training or something?

jaynebxl Wed 20-Feb-13 07:30:34

Hidden home I think that was a tough lent promise. I reckon no chocolate is infinitely easier than not wanting to choke people!

Love that quote niminy!

MaryBS Wed 20-Feb-13 08:06:41

I gave up alcohol. After a day yesterday which involved a long meeting at the school re: provision for DS, then a couple of hours at church doing the banking, then a PCC meeting lasting 2 1/2 hours, I think I did pretty well to abstain. Although it was probably because I was too tired to do anything other than go to bed!

Agree that not wanting to kill people is difficult, if not impossible. You can always promise to pray for them immediately after wanting to kill them?

niminypiminy Wed 20-Feb-13 08:52:26

Mary after that day abstaining was blimmin' saintly!

niminypiminy Wed 20-Feb-13 08:56:52

I've got to go into the dc's school this morning to meet the Ofsted inspectors, in my role as Vice-Chair of Governors. Am feeling very trepidatious about it (I know that isn't a word, but it should be). Our school is so fantastic, but because of the catchment, and too many disengaged parents, and children coming into school so far below where they should be for their age, and high pupil mobility (on average one child joins or leaves the school every week) we are unlikely to get the 'good' we deserve. It'll be disastrous if we don't. It's so, so, so unfair.

Hmm. I need to put into practice Mary's idea of praying for people after wanting to kill them wink.

MadHairDay Wed 20-Feb-13 09:41:45

ooh niminy - hope it goes well. I had to do exactly this when I was vice chair, couple of years back now, and school sounded similar too - disempowered, disengaged parents. I think Ofsted are better than they used to be at accurately reflecting how well the school is doing in the situation it's in - they look at baseline levels and value added. Hope you get a good, or even better, an outstanding smile

Talking of governing, there's a parent governor place come up at ds' school. we're wondering whether dh or I should go for it. Good for dh as community minister, but part of me would like to do it again, but am afraid of letting them down when ill. I enjoyed my role as vice chair before and was able to go into school during the days to do link governor work etc. What do you reckon?

Went to see my consultant yesterday, had an xray to check all the pneumonia gone. It looks far, far clearer - she showed me the before and after grin and there was a big difference, she said there is still some fluid there which is causing pleurisy which she could hear, explains why I am still in pain, but it's good news really. She suggested I build up fitness - I wil try, it's just dispiriting when I do and then get ill and lose it...but better to have some level than none. I'm referred to a pulmonary rehab course starting this week so that should help.

Sorry - wibbling on here.

niminypiminy Wed 20-Feb-13 10:02:30

About to go but MHD that is very good news that the pneumonia is gone smile smile

nickelbabe Wed 20-Feb-13 13:45:08

hiddenhome - you don't "pass" or "fail" at lent - the whole point is that you put the effort in!

of course you're going to slip most people are bloody morons but it's the fact that you are making the effort not to be so judgmental and bad-thought-thinking that matters.

nickelbabe Wed 20-Feb-13 13:50:08

I could take on everyone's daemons for them for Lent (I never "do" Lent because a) i can never think what would make the biggest difference in my life and be plausible to do, and b) because I want to try my best at stuff all year round, not just at Lent)
grin

I will eat all your chocolate, and sugar, and drink all your alcohol (wine and beer okay, Mary?) and I can even try to kill a few annoying people, too, if that helps?
grin

nickelbabe Wed 20-Feb-13 13:55:00
nickelbabe Wed 20-Feb-13 13:56:53

sounds promising MHD.
smile

WoollyEyedandWittering Wed 20-Feb-13 18:25:57

Ooh, ooh! I have a question for you...

Have you heard of/bought from a company called autosave.co.uk?

They sell cars, apparently to vast swathes of the clergy. Have any of you heard of them? I haven't (so am being a bit scaredy pants) but they seem to offer a very good service and I need to buy a car! They say they advertise in Christian magazines and on christian radio. None of which I read/listen to.
I will start a separate thread to see if any vicars out there are familiar with them but thought I'd try here too.

Thanks everyone and sorry for the slightly off topic, random question!

MadHairDay Wed 20-Feb-13 19:08:27

We bought a car from them yonks ago Woolly, talking 15 years or so now. It was all fine and was a good little car that served us well for a good while, we then sold it to a friend and it lasted her years. My parents also bought from them and they rated them - I don't know if they are still as good now but would have thought so. hth!

nickelbabe Wed 20-Feb-13 20:00:07

nothing's off topic or random here!

SESthebrave Wed 20-Feb-13 21:41:53

Sorry been AWOL today. Was with Mum most of the day taking her to GP and then hospital with suspected pneumonia. She's still in and we're awaiting a proper diagnosis tomorrow. Prayers for her would be appreciated but also for family relationships with her. For various reasons, she has a bit of a reputation as the boy that cried wolf when it comes to illnesses and so we're all a bit cynical and sceptical.

nickelbabe Wed 20-Feb-13 21:52:24

sad
[prayers]

niminypiminy Wed 20-Feb-13 21:56:06

Praying for you, SES, and for your mum

WoollyEyedandWittering Wed 20-Feb-13 21:58:55

Thanks mad hair, that is good to know thanks

I hope things are better with your mum in the morning SES.

MaryBS Wed 20-Feb-13 22:53:47

Thanks for your kind offer of taking my wine and beer (GF, the other stuff is DH's) Nickel, thankfully it will keep till after Easter!

MaryBS Thu 21-Feb-13 08:13:34

I needed a drink last night! (but didn't). Heaven save us from organising family get-togethers!

niminypiminy Thu 21-Feb-13 10:53:38

Mary, you are good. I had an absolutely horrible day yesterday (won't go into details, too raw yet), and last night had wine, Jaffa cakes a takeaway and bed, which was all I could face. But I managed to do my other Lent resolution, which is to get up an hour early to pray. It's a good thing God doesn't mind having his ear bent about our troubles smile

MaryBS Thu 21-Feb-13 14:29:28

Hope today has been better for you, Niminy. If only I were good, then there wouldn't be all these family fallings out sad

niminypiminy Thu 21-Feb-13 16:06:56

<pats Mary gently on the arm, wipes tears from own eyes, blows nose>

nickelbabe Thu 21-Feb-13 16:36:17
MadHairDay Thu 21-Feb-13 18:57:30

What have they done to it, nickel? Couldn't quite make out.

SES, hope your mum is OK.

niminy, thinking of you, hope today's been better.

Off for the weekend so won't be on much, looking forward to catching up with some old friends. smile

SESthebrave Thu 21-Feb-13 19:38:05

Hope Niminy and Mary that you've both had better days.

MHD - enjoy your weekend smile

Mum is doing ok. I don't think it's a cry wolf thing this time - she says the chest x-ray shows pneumonia. She's on oxygen and a rehydration drip with oral ABs. She was in good spirits so thank you for your prayers, visiting her wasn't as hard as I was dreading. Tomorrow DH and DS are headed off to Ireland as DH's dad has been in hospital for 5 weeks following a stroke so once I've dropped them off at the hospital, I'll go visit mum again with Dad and DD.

nickelbabe Thu 21-Feb-13 20:28:27

they've put together common praise and sing praise, basically. mens are intact where they should be but there are modern ones, loads by Stuart townend
it.s a good hymn book, but it's not lent without Christian dost thou see them.

nickelbabe Thu 21-Feb-13 20:29:32

have a lpvely long weekend mhd.
glad mum seems to beon the mend ses.

Dutchoma Fri 22-Feb-13 07:44:08

There are so many hyn=mns that I haven't sung for years and I really miss them St Patricks breastplate is another one of them.

nickelbabe Fri 22-Feb-13 08:58:40

ooh yes.
we do that sometimes as an anthem smile

Dutchoma Fri 22-Feb-13 10:01:23

We could do, but it is just not on the horizon. We are doing this "Way of the Cross" thing, are supposed to be led and taught by our minister who is a brilliant musician, but it seems we come fairly low on his list of priorities. He has taken about two hours of practice out of a possible 18 and our regular choir mistress is tearing her hair out. We are supposed to be doing it on Saturday 2nd March, so only one more regular practice and then the afternoon practice and 'performance' at 7pm
I don't even like it much, there are thing by Philip Wilby, have you heard of him?

jaynebxl Fri 22-Feb-13 10:02:05

I wouldn't mind if we just sang the odd hymn from time to time, without it having to have the tune changed to some modern little ditty!

nickelbabe Fri 22-Feb-13 11:50:28

oh dear, that sounds bad, Oma. sad
I'm firmly of the opinion that music should be put in the charge of the choirmaster, not the priest.
I've not heard of him.
we do the Rutter version

jayne my idea of hell <shudder>

nickelbabe Fri 22-Feb-13 11:52:39

oh, do you mean I Bind unto Myself Today? that hymn?
I never knew it (we did it for our readers' wedding anniversary a couple of years ago and I hadn't heard it before)

version

nickelbabe Fri 22-Feb-13 11:53:58
nickelbabe Fri 22-Feb-13 11:57:39

oh, first link worked anyway!

Dutchoma Fri 22-Feb-13 12:14:01

Yes, but do remember that this is a Baptist Church, so not really a 'priest'. Also he got us into doing this particular set of works on the understanding that he would take charge of it. We love working with him, that includes the choir mistress and that was how it was sold to us. Now all sorts of other things are taking precedence and we have hardly seen him. I have not been as fully involved as I could have been, but then, I don't think that would have made a lot of difference anyway. It's all a bit sad, really.

nickelbabe Fri 22-Feb-13 12:17:30

it is sad. I wish people wouldn't promise to take on things that they might not have time to do. Ministers and clergy should know that they can't commit their time in such a way!

Dutchoma Fri 22-Feb-13 12:32:02

Yes, I think that is probably very true, he spreads himself too thin. (which isa bit funny as he is a 'traditionally built' person.

SESthebrave Fri 22-Feb-13 21:54:37

I agree, one of the strengths of a good minister needs to be knowing what level to be involved with across the various things going on.
Our current priest is very good at this. Our previous priest who I'm very fond of and presided at our wedding was not and as a result ended up having to take a year out of priesthood due to a breakdown.

Went to see Mum again today and she's progressing well. Hopefully home next Mon or Tues. DH and DS have gone off to Ireland. I'm hoping DS will be ok as he had an awful night with what seems to have been a night terror. Please pray that this was a one off and there'll be no problems for him and DH whilst away.

nickelbabe Sat 23-Feb-13 11:46:35

it's yet to be seen what our NV is going to be like.

At the moment, he's quite happy to let us get on with our jobs - he's keen for DH to carry on with the music - a lovely touch was that he actually talked to DH about it and asked him if he would be okay to carry on doing it. (rather than never talking about it and assuming it'll carry on or that things might change)

I also assume he won't really want to take on more than he feels he can handle because new babies are very hard work - DH is constantly complaining that he has no spare time any more! grin

jaynebxl Sun 24-Feb-13 13:30:25

Hi everyone. Hope you're having a good Sunday. We have church in the afternoon but my son is ill so we are just weighing uo who is staying home with him. Mind you Calpol the medicinal compound has kicked in and right now he is bouncing around the lounge!

Preached twice this morning, got my papers for PCC tomorrow sorted and off to a service run by the new vineyard group in my town very shortly. This sounds very organised but there are loads of colds around at the moment and the chap at the supermarket yesterday at the next checkout had a major sneezing session so if I haven't had that virus I'm sure I've picked it up. I'm trying to get slightly ahead of the week in case I get ill.

Dutchoma Sun 24-Feb-13 19:26:42

That's the most organised I've ever known anyone to be. Preaching twice on one Sunday just in case you get ill in the week grin

nickelbabe Sun 24-Feb-13 22:12:47

grin oma.

well, I decidedto take NV a cup of coffee again today. then felt guilty because NV's Dw was there and I didn't take her one - in my defence I didn't know what she drinks. I did ask her then if she wanteda drink and she said no.

I don't know why I'm so worried. I want to be a friend but I'm concerned that I'll do my usual pushing myself on someone and she won't want to be friends. yes, I know I constantly overthink things but I can't help it.

jaynebxl Sun 24-Feb-13 22:32:38

How new are they nickel? Have they moved from far? I'd invite her over for coffee.

nickelbabe Sun 24-Feb-13 22:40:14

very very new - he was installed at the end of january.
I'm not good with people I don't kniw - I find it very hard to talk to people and often feel like they're only talking to me because I've spoken tk them. I would love to invite her for a coffee, but I don't like to give people the worry of how to refuse me without causing offence.
plus, she's working fulltime - she's curate for the parish as well as vicar's wife.

nickelbabe Sun 24-Feb-13 22:41:31

they'vemoved frkm thenext town along.
I think that there are more peole involved in the church that might have more in common with her than me.

jaynebxl Sun 24-Feb-13 23:01:35

Wow she has her work cut out then. Do they have children too?

I reckon most people when they are new would appreciate a friendly invite but she does sound like she must be quite busy.

SESthebrave Mon 25-Feb-13 06:54:55

Nickel, when you next see her why don't you say something like:"It'd be great to have a chat over a coffee sometime. I know you've got a lot on your plate but just say when is a good time for you."
Then she can either agree and say she has got a lot on at the moment and she'll sort something out with you in a week or so or she'll suggest a time.

Dutchoma Mon 25-Feb-13 09:45:55

Could you invite her to a guided tour of the shop? She'll want to stock up for the new arrival? When she is passing? Any time? Then you have an additional string to your bow as you will know how to deal with a potential new customer.

MadHairDay Mon 25-Feb-13 11:32:10

Nickel I think she'd be delighted to be asked for a coffee, I would be smile DOs idea is a good one.

I have to have this minor op on Wednesday, bit scared about the GA, tell me it'll all be fine and easy

Dutchoma Mon 25-Feb-13 11:37:09

You would be quite right not to believe me if I said that MHD. What I can say is that God will be there to see you through whether it is hard or whether it is easy. He will be in it.

thanksamillion Mon 25-Feb-13 12:08:27

Amen DO! We'll be praying for you MHD smile

Nickel I think you should invite her for something easy - a tour of the shop, a coffee within a defined time so she knows you're not going to take over her whole day. The thing is that often with clergy family everyone thinks that someone else will ask, or that they'll be too busy and they often don't get asked at all.

nickelbabe Mon 25-Feb-13 13:35:20

she's pregnant with their first.
I think she's got other medical issues, so she must be very tired too - she looked ever so pale yesterday, and said she'd had to have a test, so it can't help.

Yes, I like the idea of telling her I'd like to chat over a drink (maybe not coffee- she is pg! wink ), and give her the option of choosing the date. It would have to be a short event anyway because the shop doesn't give me much time.
I suppose, being in the shop means that she doesn't have to worry that I'll never let her go. But it does give the problem that I won't be able to devote my complete attention. (i can for the most part, it's not like i've got many customers!)
I think in my parish, though, I can think of at least 5 or 6 people who will definitely make proper friends with her almost immediately - there are quite a few proper godly people who just gel with clergy (especially those who are parents) Those same people don't make any effort to get to know me , but then I'm the kind of person that no one wants to be friends with.

Dutchoma Mon 25-Feb-13 13:45:41

Oh Nickel don't be silly. You are very sensitive to the needs of others and try to understand their difficulties. I'm sure your nvw will be glad of that sensitivity.

nickelbabe Mon 25-Feb-13 13:46:22

oh, and I completely glossed over your worry for your OP mhd - see, that's probably why no one ever wants to be my friend! I'm all me, me, me! blush

I can't say it'll be alright, but I'm sure it'll all go smoothly.

I've had GA before, and I hate losing control, so it really freaked me out. I was told to count backwards from 10, and I remember saying some daft thing and then not remembering anything at all until I woke up. smile
prayers for you. thanks

nickelbabe Mon 25-Feb-13 13:50:42

DO - i try to, but I always end up saying the wrong thing in the real world.
If I have in my head "whatever you do, don't say .....", you can guarantee that I'll avoid it, then think "yeay! I didn't say ...." then I'll say it.
It always happens - as soon as I relax, my brain just stops filtering out the stupid stuff.

niminypiminy Mon 25-Feb-13 16:22:55

nickel I think most of us have an inbuilt stupid remark generator -- I know I do. The great thing is that most people are too busy being worried about their own stupid remarks to worry about yours smile. Also if I were her I'd want to know someone in my parish who wasn't proper godly.

MHD I will be praying for you especially on Wednesday. GAs are scary at the best of times but with respiratory problems on top, yikes. DO is right though, God will be there with you. (Actually I want to compile a book of DO's wisdom.)

Things more on an even keel here, which is a huge relief. Now all I want is spring to come and the sun to appear <stamps foot>

Dutchoma Mon 25-Feb-13 20:05:15

Niminy grin

MaryBS Tue 26-Feb-13 08:22:20

<I thought Nickel WAS proper Godly grin >

MadHairDay Tue 26-Feb-13 11:35:27

I think so too Mary smile And I like being friends with her, so ner wink

I just think the new vicar's wife will be appreciative of any offer of friendship - for us clergy spice types it can be difficult to get to know people, because people have certain expectations of what we 'should' be like, and also often people don't like to get too close in case we go all erm holy on them or tell on them to our Super Godly OH or something bollox daft like that. So to have someone being genuinely friendly like you nickel would be a real joy. Have confidence in yourself - you're lovely.

Off for my pre-op in a minute....nervous. Have to be at the hosp for 7.30 am tomorrow, stupid time, so have to get a taxi as dh doing school run etc, and it's not our nearest hosp so will be expensive. Pah.

niminy - I want an Oma Wisdom book too! We should totally compile one. Never mind the Mumsnet Rules, we should have the Oma Rules grin

Thinking of you MHD.

nickelbabe Tue 26-Feb-13 13:43:18

I'm not really lovely. IT would be a lot easier to make friends if I weren't so blimmin' worried about what to say. Do you realise that I had a longish conversation with her on Sunday, and I haven't asked her what kinds of things she enjoys doing in her spare time? I can never think of the questions to ask people and my conversation is always stilted. They say that the best method of conversation is to ask the other person about themselves, but I always forget to do that - they ask me, and I think when they do, I'm so relieved that I haven't had to think of a question that I forget that actually, I'm supposed to do the same back. I must look as if I love talking constantly about myself!

I hope it's all going well, mhd with your pre-op.
and that the whole thing goes swimmingly tomorrow.

Dutchoma Tue 26-Feb-13 14:57:30

Sometimes, dear Nickel, you have to believe what other people tell you. And if we say that you are lovely, then you ARE lovely. End of.

niminypiminy Tue 26-Feb-13 15:02:06

DO is right Nickel. We all think you're lovely, and are glad we're you're friends.

Dutchoma Tue 26-Feb-13 15:09:06

Go on, do a bit of basking in the sunshine of what other people tell you. (I nearly wrote 'baking' grin)

nickelbabe Tue 26-Feb-13 15:35:18

grin

thanks.
the reason I'm like this is because I did believe what someone told me when I was a teenager.

niminypiminy Tue 26-Feb-13 15:55:04

It's funny, isn't it, how we instantly believe anything negative we hear about ourselves and remember it forever, and manage not to listen to any good things? I do this myself all the time.

MHD hope the pre-op appt went smoothly, and that you got there and back ok.

newlark Tue 26-Feb-13 21:49:04

Nickel - your post of 13:43 sounds exactly like me - I've always found it hard to get to know people and have conversations and often end up talking about myself and fail to ask the other person anything. I do always try to have a planned question or two if I can "Have you had a good week/weekend?" and try to make an effort to remember things they have told me so that I can ask about that e.g. if they have mentioned a holiday/meal out etc

<not supposed to be here as cutting down on MN but am on track with my target of reading the New Testament in Lent so giving myself a break grin>

jaynebxl Tue 26-Feb-13 23:36:16

MHD I hope all goes well for you with your OP.

Nickel, the secret is to answer the person's question then ask them the same one back! Then you don't even have to think of one. Of course this doesn't work if they are asking you how you juggle 3 kids when they don't have any, or something like that, but on the whole it works!

nickelbabe Wed 27-Feb-13 12:20:10

good idea!

nickelbabe Fri 01-Mar-13 12:58:43

our female alto's husband had a heart attack this week.
he's really poorly.

apparently, he was sedated since it happened, then they woke him yesterday and are seeing how it goes.

really worried for him. he's such a lovely bloke, and since they started coming to church (only just over a year!), he's got really involved with all sorts of stuff.
she's asking for prayers at the moment.

Dutchoma Fri 01-Mar-13 13:41:01

Will do Nickel.

MadHairDay Sat 02-Mar-13 12:13:48

Oh nickel, hope he is ok, praying for them all.

<and you are lovely> pokes tongue out I emphasise with what you are saying, though. When I was around 11/12/13 some people at school said a lot of fairly vile stuff to me. I was ugly, fat <I wasn't>, worthless etc - I believed it all, for many years. I actually wore baggy clothes to hide my shape for years because I believed what they said and my self esteem was so low I wanted to hide myself. It wasn't until I went to uni that I began to see that I'd been bullied and it was all a load of bollocks and that I didn't need to believe it anymore. I asekd some people to pray with me about it, and I felt really set free from it - like these words had defined me for years and no longer needed to - I saw myself the way God saw me. It changed the way I viewed myself and changed everything, from the way I dressed to the way I talked to people.

I still get occasional times where I'll sink back into it, but dh always tells me to stop being so daft and I soon come back out, but it is easy to - these are lies, and you don't need to live by them any more.

I read a good book that helped, I think it was called 'His image, my image' -don't know if it's still in print, but there must be other similar books which help look at the way you see yourself. You don't need to live under the burden of words said about you sad

MadHairDay Sat 02-Mar-13 12:15:08

btw the op went fine - he did it under a spinal in the end as I was too high risk for a general, and it was fine - just weird. I was very zonked out by it and tired/in pain but coming out of that now - for a couple of days I was worried as I couldn't bend at all and my back was in agony, but it seems a lot better today, so hopefully all is wlel;.

nickelbabe Sat 02-Mar-13 12:28:33

aw, lovely you, reassuring me before updating on your op! shock

nickelbabe Sat 02-Mar-13 12:32:10

well, a lot of how i am stems from being bullied as a child. it really didn't help that my parents used to make it out like it was all my fault hmm

I also have times where everything goes swimmingly for ages, and i feel confident and not-awkward, then something will happen, or someone will say something (usually accidental) and i'll crash and it'll feel like the end of the world and that i'm completely worthless and unloveable.
sad

how freaky being awake while they did it! hope you recover (back to normal at least) in optimum time (quickly is not what i want to say, because quickly isnt always the best)

nickelbabe Sat 02-Mar-13 12:33:38

alto friend has posted on fb today: is off the ventilator and holding his own, but very weak.
had to tell choir last night and they are understanably very upset. altohusband is such a lovely bloke, we all wish him a speedy recovery.

jaynebxl Sun 03-Mar-13 14:03:51

I remember reading His Image My Image a long time ago too. I can commend it, Nickel.
Glad alto husband is better.
I'm feeling a bit frustrated today. We had an offer accepted on a bigger house in our village 8 weeks ago, accepted an offer on our house a week later and since then nothing has happened. The people we are buying from are waiting for things to move forward with the house they are buying and so we are all just hanging around. People keep telling me moving house takes a long time but we haven't even got to the point where it all starts taking lots of time yet! In the meantime I just keep falling over stuff here and don't feel like making any big organisational changes cos we are supposed to be moving house!

niminypiminy Sun 03-Mar-13 21:55:43

Jayne hope things start to move on the house soon -- it's so frustrating, isn't it? We're hoping to move this year but we have to wait for an ominous crack to be mended before we can even start getting the house tarted up, and we can't get it mended until a man from the insurance comes and says that it can be mended... We may be here forever.

MHD I am so glad to hear the op went ok. I've been worrying praying for you.

nickel angry at your parents!

I led the all age service today, and it was completely chaotic. But there was a brilliant moment in the middle when some of the older children read out the intercessions they'd written, and the younger ones led the responses with a signed response they'd learned. It was really moving!

jaynebxl Sun 03-Mar-13 22:20:06

Thanks niminy. Love the signed response! Do you do a lot of that at your church?

nickelbabe Sun 03-Mar-13 22:39:56

yes, he really seems tobe on the mend now.
still praying.

NVW took the service today. she was wonderful - so clearly spoken and calm too. she just seemed to know exactly what she was doing the whole way through. lovely.

thank you niminy- thankfully I know it's not, but it just sticks in my head. well, ookay, I probably do believe that too, otherwise why would it stick so much? like, could I have done this or said it like this etc. no wonder I say nothing then blurt it all out!

niminypiminy Mon 04-Mar-13 12:49:30

nickel NVW sounds great. Have you invited her to the shop for coffee?

jayne I'm trying to introduce more stuff with signs/actions as it's a great way of helping young children (especially if like ours their language is often not very well developed) to learn liturgy. So we do the Lord's Prayer with actions, and I'm gradually adding more things. It's fun -- actually the adults like doing the Lord's Prayer actions too.

nickelbabe Mon 04-Mar-13 12:59:33

not yet - I will get the courage eventually.
maybe when they're not so new, as i'm sure everyone else is grabbing their attention. I think it'll be nice to give them a bit of space.

NV was at Busy Bees this morning chatting to people.

nickelbabe Mon 04-Mar-13 13:03:39

niminy best Lord's prayer ever is the caribbean one.
there's a bit missing on this video, but it's the hideous book and other hymn books

we used to do it at school.

jaynebxl Mon 04-Mar-13 13:05:20

Woo hoo just heard this morning that the people we are buying from have decided to go into rented housing because nothing was moving forward very fast! So ... The process begins in earnest!

nickelbabe Mon 04-Mar-13 13:48:05

grin

relief!

MadHairDay Tue 05-Mar-13 11:09:46

Good news Jayne!

nickel, have been thinking of you a lot after what you said. Words can be so damaging can't they sad I hate seeing dd go through similar now with kids at school saying stuff that goes in. Why are people so vile sometimes??? Don't believe the words, nickel...

nickelbabe Tue 05-Mar-13 12:26:46

people can be vile.
i never realised it would stick with me through my whole life, though.

MadHairDay Fri 08-Mar-13 11:14:54

Where is everyone? You're all being quiet.

Hope you are ok nickel. read your fb status. Thinking of you.

Not too well again here. it sucks sometimes this thing

nickelbabe Fri 08-Mar-13 11:42:19

thanks smile
yeah, it's tough.
even worse that I had to fiddle with numbers in the week of World Book Day! what was I thinking ?!
I could have left it till next week, or even until I had finished the tax year, but no! I wanted to know now what my deficit was: i wanted to work out how much extra I had to take every day.
didn't realise that I had to make up £6000 in a month

And I've had school classes in every day this week (well, since Wednesday), and they've spent loads of money, but it's nowhere near enough to make a difference.
So, I go "yeay grin, lots of takings, lots of books sold" then "oh no sad sad not £6000"

MadHairDay Fri 08-Mar-13 12:11:07

sad

nickelbabe Fri 08-Mar-13 13:15:15

i also replied to an email from the pcc secretary, in which reply I swore (i only said bloody), but someone pointed out it might put me in a bad light, so i've got to apologise for it.
sad

niminypiminy Fri 08-Mar-13 13:18:15

Nickel would you do mail order? We spend loads of money on children's books (in fact on books in general) and I'd rather buy them from you than from an evil non-taxpaying Internet conglomerate. At the moment I am buying picture books for my church. I'd love to buy some from you. Would that be possible? (Not £6000 worth, though, sadly)

nickelbabe Fri 08-Mar-13 13:25:15

I do mail order smile
and i'd do anything for you grin

If you pop me an email of what you want, I'll price it up and order at your request (i do charge cover price, but not postage)
I don't know if I'm allowed to put my email on here, so I'll put it in a PM. thanks

nickel do you accept the world book day vouchers ? Do you get advantage from them? If yes, I'll get at book from you! I'll pay postage! smile

hiddenhome Fri 08-Mar-13 16:32:29

Hi everyone smile

ds2 has his first confession tomorrow. We then go for breakfast at the parish centre. I plucked up courage and went to confession yesterday and feel loads better grin

niminypiminy Fri 08-Mar-13 17:23:54

hiddenhome that's great (about your ds's first confession and about yours)

nickel will pm you later!

Jaynebxl Fri 08-Mar-13 17:31:15

Nickel I'm sorry to hear about your business. Times are really hard for small businesses, aren't they?

nickelbabe Fri 08-Mar-13 18:24:45

bluetinkerbell yes, I do accept the vouchers. the only benefit for me is repeatcustomxand awareness (which is why I get annoyed with people in my town using them at smiths and then going "oh I didn't know you took them!confused] what, you mean you didn't see the massive window with a world bookday display yelling *spend your token here" hmm
daft sods grin

I can do you an order, just email me smile

still hoping for that miracle. grin

niminypiminy Sat 09-Mar-13 19:17:05

Just back from the ministry course open day. I sat at lunch with an extremely confident woman who told me all about how quickly she's been through the discernment process and looking forward to her BAP next month, how wonderful the DDO is. Then the DDO appeared out of nowhere and started talking to her in a really friendly and affirming way, and ignored me completely, walking away before I got a chance to say hello. I felt utterly crushed, and went home on the train shivering with misery.

niminypiminy Sat 09-Mar-13 19:18:56

Btw Nickel I am nearly finished making my list of books. I haven't forgotten, I promise! Hope you had a better day -- have been praying for you.

MadHairDay Sat 09-Mar-13 20:22:02

niminy sad That's downright rude of the DDO if nothing else, and confidence isn't always the best thing - pride before a fall and all that. I'm so sorry you feel so crushed. sending love and prayers. thanks

Ooh niminy i know the feeling! Wish we could both have a BAP soon! Would make things a bit more straightforward.
Not on from DDO, I've heard good things about her before!

niminypiminy Sat 09-Mar-13 22:00:22

Thank you, both. I'm feeling a bit better - had a bath, and ds1 made some brownies, and I've had a glass of wine. It's entirely likely that something happened completely not to do with me - like having to rush to the loo (I'm always having to do that as my pelvic floor is so pathetic blush).

Blue, I did bump into someone I know though who is in her first year of training, and she said, about discernment that it totally messes up your head but once you're through it you realise it's in a good way. (Or something like that, something may have got a tiny bit garbled, blame the brownie and wine!)

MadHairDay Sat 09-Mar-13 22:23:09

That's very true niminy. When dh didn't get through his first BAP it was absolutely devastating, a really dark time for us, not knowing what was going on, feeling we'd discerned wrongly and heard no call, it was utterly horrible. But we look back and see God's hand in it - the timing, the life experience, all sorts of things, but at the time we were a wreck! Going through the whole process can be a very difficult thing indeed.

Keep on keeping on, you two, wonderful women of God. smile

Jaynebxl Sat 09-Mar-13 23:40:36

What's a BAP? Blue, are you planning to train for the ministry too? Not at the same place as Niminy? Don't despair, I'm sure you will have more opportunities to win them over!

Yes would like to train too! I'm planning on applying for a assistant chaplain job at King's College London and if I get it, we'll hopefully be moving in with MIL in Cambridge, so will be in same diocese as niminy and will transfer to same DDO hopefully!

Please think of me, preaching this morning for the archdeacon and also need to tackle difficult work problem with church wardens! Not exactly a good combination!

niminypiminy Sun 10-Mar-13 14:20:12

Blue hope it went well this morning. Church wardens - one of those 'can't live with them, can't live without them' categoriesgrin

Very exciting to think of you being in Cambridge! The DDO's good, I think, and incredibly smart. Everyone has some people they're more on the same wavelength with than others, and that goes for clergy as much as anyone else.

niminypiminy Sun 10-Mar-13 14:22:32

Hi Jayne a BAP is short for Bishops' Advisory Panel -- it's like a two day, residential interview where they make a final decision about whether you can train for ordination.

nickelbabe Sun 10-Mar-13 14:25:11

I've had a really good week, thank you for asking - if it weren't for those calculations, I would have been feeling really positive about the future.
it's just when.you take this week out of all the weeks, it's exceptional and not enough. next week will be back to normal, me sitting waiting for people to come through the door.
lotsof people have been lovely, giving me ideas of what I could do to help - most are ones that either I already do or that I've tried and have failed.
some are downright stupid/thoughtless, like "have you tried diversifying and sticking otger things?" (what you mean more stuff I have to pay for and find sonewhere to put in the already overcrowded shop when I'm 6grand down?) and a brilliantly absurd suggestion from the lady who rents a room.upstairs on a Wednesday: get a new carpet in a brighter colour! yes, because schools and customers can obviously smell new carpet frommiles away and will want to visit because it (and I can obviously also afford the money to pay for a new carpet that will be dirty in a couple of weeks anyway) She meant it would brighten the place up, but most people who cone in the shop comment on how lovely it is, and surely the problem is not whether the carpet is dark blue? those who come in say it's lovely, I've got nearly 75%conversion (proportion of people coming in vs people who spend) and my average spend is just under £10 per transaction. that's not the problem, it's getting people into the shop that's the problem!
and everyone says they're praying for me. which makes me think we're all supposed to be working towards God's great plan, that he's going to answer our prayers in the besg way for us. but I've spent my whole life getting shitted upon, my nental health has taken a proper beating and everything always goes wrong for me. so if the one thing that has been constant my entire life (reading and love of books) is not part of God's great plan for me, then I just can't believe he's got my best interests at heart.
nothing else matters to me.
so he'd better have something amazing in line for me, or i'mgoing to be furious on judgement day.
it's ridiculous: I'm not cut out to be an employee, I'm obviously no good at being my own boss. I don't know how i'll
cope being in the town with my failure plastered all over the building, taunting me. I won't be able to face that part of town, I won't be able to think of books as my friends any more and I think i might just have to crawl into a corner and die.
it's not just a shop going under, it's everything that life holds for me. without my little bookshop nothing else will feel worth having. it was going to dd's legacy - she's complicit in my dream.

MadHairDay Sun 10-Mar-13 15:29:07

nickel sad

I have no words, advice is not what you need right now anyway.

Just prayers, and much love

niminypiminy Sun 10-Mar-13 15:51:06

Yes - prayers and love coming your way, Nickel

SESthebrave Sun 10-Mar-13 20:51:12

Just checking in. Sorry I've left it a while again.

Nickel - Praying for a long term solution for you.

All ok here. Interested to hear of you going to confession HiddenHome. As I mentioned before, it's something I struggle with but I am starting to feel like I want to go before Lent is over. I wonder whether it would be ok to take 9mo DD in with me?

....

sorry, ignore me

hiddenhome Mon 11-Mar-13 10:35:09

sad nickel I didn't realise things were that bad.

hiddenhome Mon 11-Mar-13 10:40:07

SESthebrave Yes, I made it to confession after a false start. I first visited a new place with dh and ds2, but felt too nervous and just went home blush

I then visited the retreat centre and I know the priest there, so I had confession and felt great afterwards and am still feeling that way. I can't rationalise why I'm feeling like this, but it is just a wonderful feeling getting it all off your chest then being absolved.

ds2 had his first confession last week in a lovely church service with the rest of his class. It was just amazing and everyone was so happy. The looks on the children's faces after they returned to their parents after their confession was just wonderful. Our priest sat at the back near the alter and each child went up one by one, then some adults went up too smile

neither did i! sad
I was holding on to moving in the summer, but that's scuppered those plans.

Anyway, I've hoovered now, so I'm just waiting for all the customers to arrive - i might even dust later (when dd has woken up), because the smell of furniture polish attracts customers too, i've been told hmm

(it's me, nickelbabe btw wink)

hiddenhome i've never understood the desire for confession, but I can see it's one of those things (especially in children) where it's so good to get things off your chest, when you're feeling guilty about something smile

hiddenhome Mon 11-Mar-13 13:10:09

<waves at nickelbabe that was before she changed to UniqueAndAmazing> grin

Is your shop somewhere busy so people just wandering by stop in? Is it due to the recession? Lots of shops are struggling up our high street.

MadHairDay Mon 11-Mar-13 13:13:57

nickel, you are indeed Unique and Amazing smile Any reason for the namechange?
Been thinking of you.

grin hey, i'm always nickelbabe!
I ncd because i was doing an AIBU based on the Prodigal Son

SESthebrave Mon 11-Mar-13 13:36:14

UniqueandAmazing - (love the name!) for me an important part of the sacrament of reconciliation is also the preparation and examination of conscience. I realise things about my behaviour and what I do or don't do so much more and already since I've been contemplating going again, I've found myself adjusting my behaviour in small ways that make me feel so much better and more positive in my relationship with God. I know also though that to gain full benefit, I need to see the priest for absolution. It's not that I feel I need to tell a priest my sins but I need to verbalise them before God and the priest is His representative. Actually saying stuff out loud and then hearing the words "I absolve you..." with no feeling of judgement is very powerful. I just need to get over my counselling fear and go and do it!

MHD - hello! How's things? Are you recovered from your op?

hidden - sorry, got sidetracked blush

unfortunately, my shop is in totally the wrong place ?(because of shops closing down at this end of the street), so not enough passing trade.
this town is laid out in such a way that our main shopping street is one long line, which stretched about a mile! so people tend to stay up where the banks and Post Office is, then go home. I'm right down the bottom end sad

SES that's a beautiful way of looking at it smile

hiddenhome Mon 11-Mar-13 15:25:27

Are you having much luck selling the books online?

I never have.
too much competition.

I have a few orders here and there, but not enough to keep it going, really.
it's just important to have that online presence.

hiddenhome Mon 11-Mar-13 17:26:39

Oh, dear, I dunno what to say apart from I'm sorry and I'll pray that you find a way through this.

thank you smile xx

MadHairDay Mon 11-Mar-13 17:54:04

sad nickel. sending some very unMNetty hugs your way.

Think I may have just lost a fb 'friend'. She posted a vile message about how other countries treat illegal immigrants - imprisonment, shooting etc and how we do - all the usual Daily Fail crap - give them big houses, healthcare, take all our jobs etc etc. I asked her if she'd prefer we shoot them. Hmm, do you think she will stay a 'friend'? She's an internet friend, someone from my disease internet board - usually I find people from this particualar place to be much more compassionate...

MadHairDay Mon 11-Mar-13 17:54:43

...and I can't spell today.

Jaynebxl Mon 11-Mar-13 18:29:13

MHD those things drive me mad. No loss if she unfriends you.

Nickel I just can't imagine how dispiriting it must be to sit and wait for customers. Really hope you get a miracle soon.

thanksamillion Mon 11-Mar-13 19:35:09

Hello all. I've been lurking if not posting recently - I'm here and you're in my prayers grin

Nickel praying for a more positive week for you. Not sure what more can be said as I don't think there are any easy answers. You're not alone though.

cloutiedumpling Mon 11-Mar-13 21:49:18

Nickel - thinking of you.

MHD - these things happen. At least you stood up for what you believe in.

sad mhd - it amazes me what people think is okay to post in a public forum. but those thoughts do exist (and i notice it's getting worse the harder the recession hits), it's horrible, but i can't see how it's possible to educate further sad

thanks all smile
I had a reporter on the phone this morning - it's sooooo hard to "tell the truth" in this way - normally for the press, we put on a brave face, "it's all going well, we've got a great shop and we're moving forward, positive positive", but this is supposed to kick people into action, so I had to be frank and say, "basically i'm failing."
problem is, though, are people going to look at the 6grand figure and go "oh, that's not a huge amount, is it, businesses lose more than that" when it's on £48k turnover, it's a lot, and when it's on top of never having made a profit and makinga 3k loss last year , it suddenly makes me go "not really a very successful business plan was it..."

SESthebrave Tue 12-Mar-13 14:26:26

So tough but I think you need to just do what is right for you and let other people think what they like.

SESthebrave Fri 15-Mar-13 18:14:46

Oops! I seem to have killed the thread!
Hope everyone's ok and you've got lovely plans for the weekend smile

niminypiminy Fri 15-Mar-13 18:37:37

<waves to everyone> smile

I was planning to get to my poor neglected allotment, but as it's tipping down with rain now, I'm not sure what state it'll be in tomorrow, and then DH is recording a band on Sunday and won't be around (and DS1 hates the allotment with a passion). Maybe there is a message here that I need to be hearing sad.

MadHairDay Fri 15-Mar-13 18:57:28

<waves back>

I've been v busy this week. Off to the NW women's day tomorrow, v v excited! Hope everyone is ok. smile

niminypiminy Fri 15-Mar-13 19:03:52

Have a great time!

cloutiedumpling Fri 15-Mar-13 19:37:14

Unique - how are things today?

MHD - have a great time

<waves back>

you didn't kill the thread! grin

I wish i had an allotment. i used to live on a farm, and had a rather large piece of wasteland garden that i made into a lovely garden by the time i left there.
Ex made a good job of completely neglecting it once i left, so it's back to looking like a wasteland again. sad
my back garden is tiny, and it's now mostly chicken run! we put a couple of veg in here and there, but not enough (and mostly runner beans last year)
we might do courgettes this year. we did peppers in the front (sun trap), under the heating/boiler outlet and they did really well there.

things are okay, thanks, cloutie, bit quiet, but it's been raining non-stop all day! but yesterday was busy, and I had a Brownie pack here last night smile

cloutiedumpling Sat 16-Mar-13 14:05:27

Rain? I'm jealous. Nothing but snow here and I want to go out. Wish it would stop. I'd love a garden too. We have a small garden but it is tiny. When I'm grown up I want an allotment. Not enough time for one just now.

The front garden in our house was turned into an allotment by the last curate. I've cleared the weeds but the soil is really thin. I'm going to try growing beans as I chucked loads of compost in a bean trench in the autumn. I'd love a real allotment but we are only here for a few years then we move on and the waiting list for allotments is about as long as my contract. So we are making the best of what we have.

Today is a marathon. Two services and I'm preaching at one, back to home church for meeting, then lent course lunch followed by tree planing with local eco group. Then lie down with cup of tea and look at rain slashing down I think...

thanksamillion Sun 17-Mar-13 07:51:47

I'm taking the plunge with growing stuff this year. The houses we've lived in here before have never had land or someone else was using it, but this time I've got a plot ready.

I dug over a very small percentage of it, then wussed out and paid a 16yo boy to do it for me blush. He did it very well in about 1/10 of the time it would have taken me.

My plan is to grow things that you can't easily buy here, so far I have parsnips, broccoli, lettuce, green beans, cherry tomatoes honey dew melons and water melons (you can buy these easily but the DCs wanted to grow them). I also want to do sweet potatoes but I need to find one to buy to make slips (I read instructions on the internet!). Most people here are almost entirely self sufficient so my little plot will be of great amusement to them!

The rest of our plot has vines on it but I'm told that the owner of the house is going to come and take care of them.

Family church at home today. What are your plans?

Jaynebxl Sun 17-Mar-13 09:17:18

Can I ask where you are, thanks? I'm guessing not UK!

Rough weekend here... I spent most of yesterday at home with my poorly daughter. She seems fine this morning but my son came down with it last night and I ended up at the emergency Dr.s with him at half 4 this morning just to check it wasn't meningitis. Thankfully he seems a bit better this morning and not quite so hot.

thanksamillion Sun 17-Mar-13 09:44:45

Oh dear Jayne, hope you all get some rest and restored to health soon smile

I live in Moldova. I'm a missionary here. This is our website which is due to be updated in the next few days with details of our new projects!

niminypiminy Sun 17-Mar-13 18:52:46

I feel ashamed to say this, now having read everyone saying how much they'd like an allotment ... But I screwed up my courage on Saturday and went and handed my key back. I've just got too many commitments at the weekends, and too much going on in the week, to get it done properly. Last year I did it started to go downhill and the weather this winter has meant I'm really behind with the digging, and I just realised I don't have time to do it properly. I feel sad about it, but it's a relief too. It's awful seeing the weeds take over.

Greenheart, I wish I could give you a load of my compost. I have about 10 sacks full of rich chicken-manure based compost that was destined for the allotment, and another big compost bin on the go. If you're ever in the Cambridge area and have room in the car for some sacks, you're very welcome to it. I hope your Sunday is going/has gone as well as it might.

Jayne, that sounds scary! I had a meningitis scare with ds2 when he was a baby -- he had a non-blanching rash, and I took him to a&e thinking 'they'll just say it's nothing', but actually they hauled him off for a lumbar puncture and had him on intravenous antibiotics before you could say 'hypochondriac'. I guess they just can't take any chances.

Millie, your garden sounds lovely. Maybe I should have borrowed your 16 year old boy for the allotment! Lovely to see your pictures too on the web site.

Cloutie, here's hoping for better weather soon! I'm getting spring-sick!

MadHairDay Sun 17-Mar-13 19:28:22

Evening all! Jayne, poor you, hope all are recovered soon. Milly, lovely to see your website and read more about what you are doing - it's brilliant, love what you're up to smile Hope your day went well greenheart, and hoping all is good for everyone else - nickel, been thinking of you lots.

Enjoyed the new wine women's day - found it more exhausting than usual, it was very airless in the auditorium and my lungs wouldn't play nicely sad So found it hard going, but still lovely, 2,000 women together to worship pretty special, and the teaching v v good - some excellent stuff from Ele Mumford on women in the bible and how women have been fed lies about their role over the centuries - she didn't make any bones about what she thought about women in leadership grin - good stuff. V tired now.

Jaynebxl Sun 17-Mar-13 21:45:37

Great to read about the stuff in Moldova, looking forward to the future projects.

Niminy, how scary! He is still really poorly so he will stay home again tomorrow. He has had three viruses on the trot, had three days off last week then well enough to go back to school for the last two, and the same the week before, poor lad. He was absolutely fine til just before bedtime yesterday.

NW day sounds great. Feel like I could do with a day like that right now!

NW sounds fab.

Cambridge is a bit far to go for good compost although with all the rain most of my soil appears to have been washed away so I was tempted for just a moment!

Hope everyone has survivied the weekend and Monday morning...?

just about survived! grin

We went to a friend's DD's birthday party on Sunday afternoon, straight after church. It was lovely - the DD is 1, so it was more for the adults (there were other children, but they were sent to play upstairs!), and we all sat around drinking tea and playing with the littlies. smile
it was lovely, so relaxing smile

MaryBS Tue 19-Mar-13 14:02:04

<cant help but wonder if I need compost....>

niminypiminy Tue 19-Mar-13 14:05:45

pm me if you do Mary!

MadHairDay Tue 19-Mar-13 16:08:48

Afternoon smile

<can't think of much to say, but procrastinating on MN as usual >

All ok?

Jaynebxl Tue 19-Mar-13 16:14:57

We have a mountain of chicken poo too if anyone wants more than Niminy can supply!

Bit rough here... My son is still ill off school and now has an ear infection on top of it all. And he just had blood coming out of his ear so I'm waiting for the dr to call me back now.

And we still don't seem to be any nearer to moving house ... The estate agent yesterday said to look at 8 weeks :-(

But ... The sun has been out today and I'm going out for curry tonight so life's not all bad!

grin
us too - we've got 3 hens in the garden and they make a lot of poo!

niminypiminy Tue 19-Mar-13 16:27:13

Jayne hope the dr has called and the ear is nothing serious.

I'm fuming because some vile person has stolen £900 from my bank account. Bank say they will investigate and then I may get it back.

angry for you.
sad too.

<hugs>

Dutchoma Tue 19-Mar-13 17:23:31

Oh Niminy how could they do that?

niminypiminy Tue 19-Mar-13 17:38:44

Tis the curse of Internet shopping. Real shops with real money - it's the only safe way. sad

Jaynebxl Tue 19-Mar-13 18:59:46

Blimey how did they get the money from your bank Niminy? Was it some site you've bought from who've misused your card or something?

Turns out my son has a burst ear drum. He was in agony earlier but is much calmer now. Ugh.

MadHairDay Tue 19-Mar-13 19:01:07

Oh niminy, how awful, hope the bank sort it out soon. sad

Jayne, sounds tough for you, hope ds is better soon and the house move goes through quicker than 8 wks! These things do seem to take forever. sad

nickel, how's it going? <can't seem to call you anything but nickel!!>

MaryBS Wed 20-Mar-13 09:02:49

Thats awful Niminy, was your card cloned from a cashpoint do you think? Its happened round here recently

niminypiminy Wed 20-Mar-13 10:28:49

I've no idea what happened. It's more than likely some site I've bought from has been hacked into. I bet it happens all the time. I've just spent half an hour on the phone to the bank, they've refunded some of the money, and apparently I have to wait for the rest to go out of my account and then they will refund it. (Seems odd, but they were adamant that's what their procedure is.) They didn't seem at all surprised -- I wonder how many of these calls they have every day? Anyway, it's a complete pain. And the worst thing is I have to memorise a new PIN number!

mhd please do call me nickel - it's really confusing when people call me Unique, like they're talking to someone else! grin

MaryBS Wed 20-Mar-13 22:23:29

<I hadn't even noticed the new name blush>

Had a really really really really really bad evening at Scouts.

niminypiminy Thu 21-Mar-13 06:02:17

Oh, Mary. What happened? Praying for you.

MaryBS Thu 21-Mar-13 07:38:43

Some of the kids causing problems with DS, with sexual innuendos and gestures angry. I've complained to the leaders. Still upset about it this morning.

MadHairDay Thu 21-Mar-13 09:22:16

sad Mary. What did the leaders say? This should come under CP rules I think - I'm a Scout committee member so if you need me to find anything out then please do ask. Hope they were helpful and sort it out. Poor ds sad sending love to you and prayers.

Not feeling well this am. PLeurisy.Too cold.

niminypiminy Thu 21-Mar-13 09:37:52

That's horrible Mary. I hope the leaders take it seriously and act quickly and decisively.

MHD: praying for you that spring will come, and sunshine and warmth, and give you some rest from constantly being ill.

SESthebrave Thu 21-Mar-13 09:41:25

MHD - praying for you x

Mary - that sounds awful. Hope it's dealt with appropriately.

Niminy - Hope the bank resolve it fully and you remember your new PIN ok!

Nickel - hello! How's your week going?

Dutchoma Thu 21-Mar-13 10:36:02

Maybe you should make it into Uniquel and Amazing.
Such sad events on here and on the prayer thread. Such a need to feel that God is indeed with us. Feel it deep down.

Mary sad
that sounds awful.
hope the leaders can do something about it.

I might change to unickelandamazing.
(it looks weird, though, doesn't it!)

yy, really, really need to feel God deep down!

If only he didn't give Man free control.....

Dutchoma Thu 21-Mar-13 11:23:20

Or woman for that matter, but that's the whole point, isn't it?

my week's been up and down.
For the first time in ages, i felt happy when i left Busy Bees, not lonely.
i had a visit from my BA (booksellers' Association) rep, and we chatted about stuff. nice not to feel so alone in my failure
the music group upstairs is moving venue next week, which is good and bad - good because it means i don't have to worry so much about being neat clean and tidy every week before she gets here; bad because it means that i won't get mentions in her business anymore. It didn't bring in an awful lot of trade, but nice to know that it was there iyswim
today, i've had a couple of customers (thought i would say only 1, but a lovely lady from twitter has just orderd 6 books grin )
it's been quiet all week really.

that's why i put Man with a capital - mankind (human beans) grin
although, having said that, i think that if women had been in charge of society, it might have been a better story.

Dutchoma Thu 21-Mar-13 11:32:27

Sort of "Hey God, You boobed, creating Adam before Eve?" grin

MadHairDay Thu 21-Mar-13 13:02:16

It's obvious, isn't it? God created man, realised he hadn't got it quite right, so made woman. The crowning glory, and all that grin

niminypiminy Thu 21-Mar-13 13:22:05

MHD grin

MaryBS Thu 21-Mar-13 14:55:53

The leader said they'd talk to the boys. Am still trying to get to the bottom of it, I know DS has done something, just not entirely sure what, or how it started. But he is the one with the different ability, and he will copy bad behaviour. I don't want him repeating the stuff to younger children, which is why I've had to come down hard, even though its not his fault.

Feeling really rubbish today. Hope you're feeling better MHD.

MadHairDay Thu 21-Mar-13 16:02:00

<<<<<<Mary>>>>>>

<covers in unMNetty hugs>

Hi, it's take a while to find you, I'm not up to speed with who everone is so sorry not to be more speaky, I am normally a real chatterbox.

Mary hope you get the behaviour things sorted out.

Jayne hope your son is OK.

Niminy hope you get the money back.

Can I just ask if anyone is off to Spring Harvest this year, please?

Jaynebxl Fri 22-Mar-13 07:12:32

Thanks, for the first time in ages this morning he has come into our room and said he feels ok! Still keeping him off school today to give him longer to build his strength up. Couldn't bear it if he went back today and picked up another bug!
Would love to go to Spring Harvest but it is so expensive for a family of 4 isn't it?

Jayne glas to hear your son is better.

Spring Harvest is very, very expensive. We are a family of three but not sure if we pay similar to a family of four because we have a two room chalet. we are in the process of adopting so maybe one day we will be a family of 4. smile

cloutiedumpling Fri 22-Mar-13 16:56:06

A friend was explaining the parable of the good shepherd last Sunday to some kids from a farming background. These are some of the kids responses:


“My granddad doesn’t love his sheep. He calls them xxxx”


“That’s a stupid story. No farmer only has 100 sheep. They have at least 5000 sheep.”


“My Dad says you shouldn’t look for stray sheep. He says if the buggers are stupid enough to wander off they deserve what’s coming to them.”


“Of course you can’t look after every sheep. If a sheep has [long list of technical problems from a farmer’s son] then you shoot it. Even Jesus wouldn’t want sheep like that.”


“Why did he spend days searching for the missing sheep? Why didn’t he just send the dogs?”

I'd love to go to Spring Harvest too. Too much money though and too far to travel. Maybe some day.

Hope you are feeling better today Mary.

Dutchoma Fri 22-Mar-13 16:58:52

Wonderful Cloutie

cloutiedumpling Fri 22-Mar-13 17:02:39

It made me laugh. Some things just don't translate so well into modern culture.

janeyjampot Fri 22-Mar-13 17:05:07

Hello, just wondered if I could join you? I came across this thread looking to see if anyone else had been to New Wine Women's Day.

hi janey yes, please do come in and sit down! grin

newbie questions:

happy clappy or traditional?
choir or singing group?
organ or keyboards/bands?
hymn books or screens?
and the important one: do you like Graham Kendrick?
grin

Dutchoma Fri 22-Mar-13 17:09:33

Welcome Janey. Make yourself at home.

niminypiminy Fri 22-Mar-13 17:37:06

Hello Janey smile

janeyjampot Fri 22-Mar-13 17:39:19

Thank you for the welcome smile

Definitely yes to Graham Kendrick grin

The rest is more complicated. I was brought up going to very traditional C of E churches, but the church I attend now it much more happy clappy/singing group/keyboards/screens. I can do both but I choose keyboards and screens, I suppose!

thanksamillion Fri 22-Mar-13 18:33:13

Welcome janey smile

Fantastic Cloutie. It works pretty well here because they still have shepherds who do pretty much what NT Shepherds did (in the summer at least - in the winter the sheep stay in).

I know at college though there was some discussion about the imagery of the shepherd and what it means to different cultures - in some cultures shepherds lead the sheep (ie from in front) and in some they go behind with a big stick which obviously colours your interpretation of Jesus as the good Shepherd. I probably haven't explained that very well grin

I'm pretty sure it's less to do with leading yoyr sheep and more to do with keeping them safe and making sure they stay in the right direction.
whether you do that by being at the front pulling along, or by keeping a close eye on everyone from the back-always in charge but never interfering, is irrelevant I think.

Jaynebxl Sat 23-Mar-13 06:49:43

Welcome Janey :-)

Very interesting about the shepherds!

MadHairDay Sat 23-Mar-13 10:20:05

Welcome Janey <yay, another New Winer!> - I was at the women's day last week in Harrogate.

Re SH - it is far too expensive for us too sad Such a shame, it prices so many people out of it, and ends up being rather middle class and unrepresentative I find. (I used to work there as a student, absolutely loved it) - we go to New Wine which is more affordable but is camping - I do think there are advantages to that though, it's a lot more sociable of an evening grouped round the tents with boxes of wine hot chocolate. smile

V interesting about the shepherd thing!

Can you believe this snow. ds has gone to Manchester today on a cubs sixers camp - hoping the journey is all ok worrying mummy - he was v v excited, they're off to the science museum, and having a sleepover/treasure hunt back in Bridgnorth. Sounds like incredibly hard work fun! grin

MadHairDay Sat 23-Mar-13 10:21:57

Hello italiangreyhound smile What stage are you in the adopting process? How lovely and exciting smile

hiddenhome Sun 24-Mar-13 13:26:22

Hello everyone smile

Hope we all have a beautiful and fulfilling Holy Week.

Tuo Sun 24-Mar-13 17:40:12

Hello all... I just felt the need to come here and tell you all - but especially greenheart, who I know has also suffered from freezing church syndrome this winter - that the underfloor heating is up and running. My toes were toasty today. Toasty, I tell you! Can you tell how excited I am? grin

janeyjampot Sun 24-Mar-13 17:49:22

Very envious of the toasty toes. Mine were only kept from freezing because my junior church group took to our Palm Sunday drama with enthusiasm and I found myself running around trying to look as if I was vaguely in control. smile

MadHairDay do you go to New Wine in the summer?

toasty toes.
<sigh>

we were talking with CWs yesterday about using our lottery win for the church's underfloor heating.
grin

had a lovely day yesterday, if exhausting!
Curate took the morning service. she has such a lovely voice and way of conducting the service.
and we had the APCM before other-church's afternoon service. with tea/food afterwards. yummy.
We voted off the pompous secretary and voted in someone else. (JC's dad actually)
don't know if PS will be voted as a co-opted member for impartial secretarial role or what will happen for that.

then we watched a little bit of the afternoon service.
was the first time I'd seen Curate preaching from the front! (normally just see the back of her head)
her history is Youth Work, and other-church has a tendency towards young people, and her way of talking to the congregation is just lovely.

Tuo Mon 25-Mar-13 15:15:20

Curate = NVW, no? Or am I losing the plot? (This is more than possible...) Have you invited her for coffee and to buy lots of books yet?

I can soooooooooooooo (not enough 'o's in the whole world to sum up how much) recommend underfloor heating. The joy! The whole building looks amazing, actually... I absolutely love it. But the heating is the best bit!

yes, NVW grin
she's so lovely, I am totally in love with her grin

I haven't invited her for coffee yet, no, but I am working up to it!
I did invite her to Busy Bees, and she came a couple of times. (possibly not just on my request)

It is very wrong to covert another church's underfloor heating but I'm feeling that coming over me. Yesterday was so cold I had furry boots on under the cassock and cassock alb.

Hoping that everyone has a stress free and blessed holy week - I'll feel alot better when the Easter Day sermon is in the bag.

thegreatestMadHairDayinhistory Mon 25-Mar-13 16:02:39

Another one coveting underfloor heating here! I was freezing yesterday, despite sitting next to the sodding useless heater.

Janey, yes I go to NW summer, I go to the North one, what about you?

nickel - service sounded lovely and NVW sounds lovely smile

sooooo cold.
cassocks are gooood, but so very cold hands. JC had his jumper pulled over his hands! he looked like he had no hands grin

other church was freeeeeeezing yesterday evening. you couldn't feel the heat 2 ft away from the radiators, but they were baking hot.

NVW is very lovely indeed. smile

Tuo Mon 25-Mar-13 18:02:35

I would like to just point out that we have spent some of the time since Christmas with no heating at all, and before that it was worse than useless, so I am not just indulging in random boasting much here! wink

I don't want to out myself really, but would so love to share how beautiful our church is now, all golden (that is, light and with clean stonework) and open and welcoming. It's just beautiful. I think I've said that before. I'm so pleased with it. Have I mentioned? grin

I am serving for the Chrism Mass on Thursday morning and have no idea what's going to happen. I've only served once before and this will be my first time with the new layout. The procession bit will be fine (rule of thumb = follow crucifer...) but I can't remember the order in which things have to be passed up to the altar or at which point the president's hands need to be washed, and because this isn't my regular service I'm serving with someone I don't know at all and I'm worried I'll look like an idiot. And what happens with the oil is anyone's guess... confused.

Dutchoma Mon 25-Mar-13 19:42:54

Oh TUO rather you than me. You will look lovely in whatever outfit you are wearing, I'm sure. Maybe Mary can tell you?

janeyjampot Mon 25-Mar-13 20:00:17

MadHairDay I go to NW North as well. The first time we went we were very apprehensive but now it's the highlight of the year for us. My DDs are both on teams this year for the first time, so it will be a different experience this time I think, but we are all looking forward to it smile

tuo, get there early, explain that yoy're new to serving and ask for help. they'll be so chuffed to be asked and assumed to know everything smile

MaryBS Tue 26-Mar-13 13:25:03

Not been to a Chrism mass myself, but what happens when serving is as follows (and remembering I'm not a server):

(I presume you won't be preparing the altar, just serving?)
Give the chalice/paten/corporal/purificator to the Celebrant, and he/she will prepare the altar (or deacon may do this). The ciborium/flagons will either be on a credence table, or will be presented as part of the Offertory. Give the ciborium to the priest/deacon.
Bow
The wine flagon hold in your right, the water in your left, handles out.
Give the wine flagon the the Celebrant, transfer the water flagon to your right, receive the wine flagon back in the left, hand over the water flagon.
Receive water flagon back, bow.
Return to credence table
There may be a money offertory too - will you be receiving this? In which case sidespeople will present you with this, you bow to them, and hold the collection up to the celebrant to bless, before placing it wherever it goes.
Lavabo bowl in left hand, lavabo towel over left wrist, pour water over celebrants fingers, he will then use the lavabo towel to dry fingers
Bow, return to credence table

Thats pretty much it as I recall. Bowing might vary from tradition to tradition, if anyone bows, you bow back is the rule of thumb grin

Dutchoma Tue 26-Mar-13 16:06:14

See, I knew Mary would know what to do. grin

niminypiminy Tue 26-Mar-13 17:03:57

Just heard from the DDO that all the BAP places up till the end of June are full. This means I'd have to wait a whole year more before starting training.

Gutted, gutted, gutted, gutted.

This has been such a terrible week so far -- I'm beginning to wonder what else can go wrong.

Oh, Lord, how long will you hide your face from me.

Dutchoma Tue 26-Mar-13 17:06:09

Oh Niminy how very disappointing for you. It's not as if you didn't apply early enough. Gutted for you.

niminy sad
<<hugs>>
I know how you feel - I seem to be surrounded by disappointment too sad

There's stuff you can do in the meantime, though, there must be.
throw yourself into as much stuff that will look good on your next application as you can.

Badvoc Tue 26-Mar-13 17:25:39

Niminy...I know just how you feel ATM sad
Gosh, haven't been on for ages!
Mums op went ok, dad is having tests now which is a worry.
March has been a bit disastrous due to ill health (we have all had this awful virus) and part of the house feel down.
Oh, and a job offer that I had for sept has fallen through...
But other than that, things are ok! smile
Have a blessed Easter everyone x

niminypiminy Tue 26-Mar-13 17:51:43

Thanks ladies. I know I'll manage the extra year somehow. It's just that it feels crushingly disappointing at the moment. I just keep on crying, and I don't know how I'll cope. Too much has been going wrong lately.

thegreatestMadHairDayinhistory Tue 26-Mar-13 19:09:08

Oh. Niminy. :-(

In bed on phone so can't type much, but just wanted to send love. That's just cap.

So much is hard for so many of US right now. :-( keep holding on...

thegreatestMadHairDayinhistory Tue 26-Mar-13 19:11:15

crap , us

Stupid phone

Tuo Tue 26-Mar-13 20:57:13

(((niminy))) - more anon...

Mary - I love you! Mwah!

[repeats to self] kit (=shorthand for all that stuff you said) - flagons - lavabo; kit - flagons - lavabo; kit - flagons - lavabo... Got it! Offertory is covered by crucifer, so that's one less thing to worry about. I will report back on Thursday p.m. and let you know how it goes.

On Sunday, our new altar was consecrated and the Bishop was very generous with the oil of chrism and incense and the smell was amazing...! I was thinking 'Mary should be here; she'd love this!'.

Love and prayers to everyone having a tough time atm. thanks

Nimmy - I'm really sorry to hear this. It is really hard not to take it personally but it isn't about your calling, just the process which just seems to grind far too slowly.

(((((((()))))))))

hey! I would have loved it too.

dh is asthmatic and incense sets him off, so I'm not even allowed to wish for incense at church sad
it's almost enough to make me want to LTB.

Ninny sorry to hear about the bap. Has it been a long journey for you?

niminypiminy Tue 26-Mar-13 22:36:22

<teary eyes> you're all lovely <sniff>

Am beginning to feel a bit better. One more year won't make that much difference out of my entire life. And I'm sure when I look back on it I'll see God's fingerprints all over it.

Praying for you MHD, and feeling blessed to have you lot as friends.

MaryBS Wed 27-Mar-13 07:36:52

Thats horrible niminy sad

grin re: incense, I may light some at home later grin

niminypiminy Wed 27-Mar-13 10:14:48

Re incense: thought I might go to Little St Mary's in Cambridge one day this week. It's incense central there (but freezing) smile

thegreatestMadHairDayinhistory Wed 27-Mar-13 11:07:01

Wish I could cope with incense, I like the thought of it this time of year. Was going to go to a stripping the altar thing tomorrow but too bloody ill again.

niminy, keeping sending hugs and prayers. God has the right timing for you - when dh didn't get through his first bap we were so bewildered and upset, questioning our calling etc...but looking back it was totally right in several ways.

Have the most hideous pleurisy. not coping with it, pain is too much, had enough

niminy so sorry! Hopefully we'll bump into each other at our BAPs next year!

niminypiminy Wed 27-Mar-13 14:25:58

MHD (((((((())))))))) (except that you're probably in too much pain for hugs with pleurisy) and love and prayers

thanksamillion Wed 27-Mar-13 17:32:14

Hugs and prayers all round! I am lurking if not posting and you are all in my prayers. Sorry everyone seems to be having a tough time of it. Hopefully celebrating Easter will be like a salve to at least some of the hurts.

It isn't Easter here yet sad. For presumably cultural reasons the protestant church here celebrates Easter according to the Orthodox calendar hmm so this year we have to wait until May!

We're gearing up for our first team to come next week and I'm trying to work out the logistics of 6 adult visitors plus us 5 in our two bed house. Plus what I'm going to feed them all. It will be cosy grin

Tuo Thu 28-Mar-13 13:00:49

Hello all... That was a lovely service. And luckily there wasn't a lot for us servers to do as the Eucharist part was very simple and everything was already on the altar at the start of the service, so the job consisted mostly of a little light processing and a bit of tidying up afterwards. The clergy (I mean, the cathedral clergy, plus the Bishop's chaplain, not those who were just visiting) had all the practicalities (topping up of supplies etc.) covered anyway and there was nothing to be done with the oil, which was just brought up by three deacons and blessed by the Bishop. I was a bit panicky beforehand, but it was a doddle in the end. Phew!

MHD - how are you feeling? Praying that you feel better very soon.

Hope it all goes well for you next week, Millie... it'll be a squash, but should be fun.

I'm back from a lovely Chrism Mass - superb singing from the cathedral choir and a short sermon from the bishop. I couldn't stay for the sandwiches and soup that were laid on for afterwards as I had to get back for a funeral but it all looked very good. Now for the holy week marathon of services....

niminypiminy Thu 28-Mar-13 17:48:37

Nickel the books have arrived! Thank you thank you!

thegreatestMadHairDayinhistory Thu 28-Mar-13 19:43:29

Thankyou for the hugs and prayers everyone. Still in pain and grotty, but feel better in myself, decided this morning that instead of letting myself get weighed down by my sadness about not being able to join in Easter again I would blog about it to help others who are unable to get out for whatever reason. If this would help anyone feel free to pm me for a link smile Although most of you are on my fb I think.

milly, can't believe you have to wait until May!

niminypiminy Thu 28-Mar-13 20:54:41

Just back from our church Passover meal, which was mostly lovely -- except that we had to sing Servant King, my least favourite GK . Yeuch!

We sang Servant King too!
Exciting prospects here... My contract finishes here in October, and they have started way too late to apply for funding to keep the post on, so no certainty for me, hence I started applying for jobs. And first one I applied for I have been invited for interview it's a 1 year contract so would be ideal if I was to start college next year! smile

plaingirly Fri 29-Mar-13 10:16:50

Just started reading In His Steps and the film is on over the weekend! Perfect timing. Really enjoying the book so far!

Dutchoma Fri 29-Mar-13 10:17:45

That's very exciting Blue. We had Servant King as well as Meekness and Majesty.

niminy so glad smile
I was panicking that Easter one wouldn't be here in time!

yeah, i was at dance last night, but DH took DD to the communion service at St Mary's and he said it was nice. oh, that's why i was mentioning it - modern music "plenty of GK" he said.

Dutchoma Fri 29-Mar-13 12:52:30

Does he like it Nickel?

thegreatestMadHairDayinhistory Fri 29-Mar-13 12:55:27

That's exciting, Blue! Praying for it to happen if it is right for you smile

The Servant King - meh. It's far too overdone and has been so for the past 28 years or thereabouts <showing age> Good words still though.

curryeater Fri 29-Mar-13 21:40:27

Hello

sorry to crash in like this, just wondered if it would be ok to chat here about holy week and some strange feelings.
I think I might be doing it wrong because it just feels awful.
I was very tired last night at the Maundy Thursday service and basically sobbed through the psalm (I am in the choir)
Was destroyed after the service today.
I know it is supposed to be sad but I am drained, snapping at everyone, dp did not go out on a rare night out tonight because he thought I was not fit to be left with dcs, too distraught

it is not supposed to be like this surely? During the services it felt important and cathartic but is is surely selfish and wrong to get so wrapped up and drained by it all that you are bad for your family

there is a part of me that thinks I should avoid it all, commit less to the church, maybe leave choir which also takes up a lot of time away from my family, and lead a lighter and more superficial life that would leave me more functional

what do you think?
does anyone else get this?

thankyou for reading, sorry to barge in

hiddenhome Fri 29-Mar-13 22:00:14

Do you normally feel like this curryeater, or has it just been this week? I do think that Easter can be a very emotional time and there's nothing wrong with that, it helps you to focus and deepen your faith.

Alternatively, could you be starting with a virus or have pms? Try to get plenty of rest and recharge your batteries next week perhaps.

Jaynebxl Sat 30-Mar-13 04:42:33

Curryeater are you maybe run down or like hidden said perhaps coming down with something? Keep your eyes fixed on Easter Sunday and the wonderful hope of the resurrection of Jesus if you can ... And make sure you get enough sleep! I think a lot of people are pretty exhausted at the end of term and need a break.

MaryBS Sat 30-Mar-13 06:50:03

curryeater, you sound low and worn out, and in need of rest. If you generally enjoy choir and being part of that, then I suspect quitting it for good would just make you feel worse in the end. Is there any way you can take some time out, perhaps a retreat or short break, to relax, to not try to force a decision but to rebuild yourself?

Am impressed you have made it to services, I've not been to any this week at all (although I did lead a Good Friday service on FB yesterday). I went to the Drs because I was feeling so low. My vicar has been very understanding, and I guess it helps that these feelings are now out in the open, although I still feel very low.

Ignatian spirituality teaches us not to make any important decisions when we are "in desolation", and it sounds to me thats where you are. It may well be that the joy of Easter will inspire you, but if it doesn't then don't feel a failure and don't beat yourself up. Take it as a sign that you need to rest in God's presence. Ask others to pray with you and for you. Let other people look after you for a change.

Prayers...

thanksamillion Sat 30-Mar-13 08:04:16

Mary and the others speak a lot of sense curryeater.

I just wanted to add that you're welcome to come here and chat things through anytime. smile

curryeater Sat 30-Mar-13 09:13:37

thanks everyone
so much going on here at the moment, we have to move house but can only get into temporary accommodation so there is a lot to do without the hope of being properly settled at the end of it - still, we are lucky, this is a nice problem to have, we are not homeless, we are just trying to buy a house but have been given notice on our current rented place - it all could be so much worse.
poor dcs have had viruses for months on end now and today dd2 is beyond tired, she is a wreck.

MaryBS sorry you have been feeling so low. I hope the dr was able to help. Wondering what a facebook service is...?

Went a bit mental online shopping the other day and it arrived last night... now have 4 bags of shopping for the foodbank, this is because I was feeling super emotional about people being foodless, it is bulky because I put things like nappies and pasta in, now I am feeling a big stupid dork, it is cluttering up space we don't have while we try to pack and I don't think dp is exactly in sympathy with this, also I don't want to draw attention to myself lugging it into church on easter sunday so I have to see how I can somehow drop it off before then, I always get things wrong, why couldn't I just put in a tin of beans like everyone else

MaryBS Sat 30-Mar-13 09:52:15

The Dr helped, sort of. What is really causing me grief is the pain I've been experiencing from trying to get DS to fit in at Scouts.

A Facebook service is whatever you want it to be, but its an act of worship with "stuff" posted, including bible readings, pictures, prayers, music. I essentially took a Taize service which I'd used in my local church and adapted it for FB, cutting and pasting texts in and finding the music on Youtube. Other people added stuff in as they felt inspired, but there was no obligation to post at all. We started at 2:30 and finished at about 3:30pm

Jaynebxl Sat 30-Mar-13 10:01:18

Curryeater that shopping doesn't sound like you got it wrong at all! What a lovely idea.
Mary, who was the fb service for? Was it a church group or something? Never heard of those before.

Dutchoma Sat 30-Mar-13 10:08:47

It was a most wonderful experience, although I sobbed my way through it.
Curryeater as the others have said , you are exhausted and it looks as if there is not going to be a lot of opportunity to rest.
Could I suggest that you take a: 'do-what-comes-to-hand' approach. Concentrate on one thing, do that, finish it and then do the next thing. If you feel embarrassed about your big contribution to the food bank (and I can see why you would, but do not think there is any need for it) then just see if you can get it into the church without any one noticing. Pretend that it is perfectly ordinary, an act of kindness, no embarrassment, no soul searching. Potter about at home, do what you can, it will all be allright in the end. And rest. Do something nice for yourself. Sit in the sunshine of God's love and feel it.

thegreatestMadHairDayinhistory Sat 30-Mar-13 12:25:59

I sobbed through the FB service too, it was so exactly what I needed, I didn't know it was happening but stumbled on it 10 mins in and it was like this amazing answer to prayer - felt so desolated and lonely yesterday and not part of things and the service brought me right in. Lovely you, Mary smile

MaryBS Sat 30-Mar-13 17:08:52

Jaynebxl, it came about through the fact that neither a friend nor I felt up to attending a Good Friday service, but still wanted to worship. So friend asked me if I'd be interested, then she posted it on FB that it was happening, together with a time. At the said time, people just turned up, and we worshipped smile. A real gift from God, and a blessing to me.

Thank you for your kind words, MHD and DO.

oma no, his tone was hmm

and on good Friday we had the most hideous gk "song" I've ever heard.
it was awful

curry
you sound ryn down with what's going on in your life.
sonetimes you need a rest. decide what wouldn't upset you too much to have a break and do it.
I've missed choir once and Sunday morning once this year just because I felt too exhausted and sad.
I'm not saying pack in altogether because all you'll end up doing is kicking yourself for letting others down and also stopping something that'ds your thing

you didn't just do a tin of beans because you wanted to do it properly and make a difference to people.
bit like when I mentioned that I knew somewhere to give harvest festival donations and ended up receiving about 10 boxes of stuff! (and had to go through them all for dates before passing them on)

thegreatestMadHairDayinhistory Sun 31-Mar-13 13:02:39

Happy Easter everyone! The greatest day in history - Christ is Risen! smile smile

Enjoy your chocolate!

which awful gk song was it nickel? We did some lovely ones this morning - See, what a morning, Thine Be The Glory (of course - we belted it out at the end, there were around 300 people at church), How marvellous, How wonderful, Happy Day. smile

it was "come and see"
which as far as I can remember sounded like something a teenager wrote in winter when mum was being annoying

tgis morning we sang
this joyful eastertide as an introit
jesus christ is risen today
the Gloria! grin
ye choirs of new jerusalem
thine be the glory (in D which felt very deep but dh says is normal. and with "bring us safe through Jordan" because triymph is just wrong
and our anthem wad stainer's they have taken away my lord. beautiful and triumphal grin

300 eh?
we got about 60 (which is a lot for us)

Happy Easter!

The church looked wonderful today as our flower ladies had really gone to town with the arrangements. There were lillies everywhere! We had around 150 ish at the main service which is up a bit on last year. The early morning service was a good number as well. We had 'Thine be the Glory' 'Jesus Christ is Risen Today' and 'In Christ Alone' as well as some stuff the choir did that was composed by our music director. Luvverly. Now I need to sleep for a couple of days to get rid of the cold I picked up last week.

thegreatestMadHairDayinhistory Sun 31-Mar-13 17:47:20

Oh lovely.

dh sand 'Jordan' v loud instead of 'triumph' too, made me lol

I quite like come and see

Sounds beautiful Green. My IL's church had loads of lilies the other year, they always do at Easter too but I had to leave fairly quickly due to chest closing up, another thing like incense I can't cope with sad Hummppphh

thegreatestMadHairDayinhistory Sun 31-Mar-13 17:47:34

sang

Jaynebxl Sun 31-Mar-13 17:58:08

We haven't been to church today cos we are at my MiLs but we are making up for it by watching Songs of Praise while I eat the chocolates from my Baileys chocolate egg grin

Happy Easter everyone!

Tuo Sun 31-Mar-13 18:18:31

Happy Easter everyone. Alleluia!

Lovely service here today. DD2 was serving. Crucifer had a rather ornate (and rather - how can I put this nicely? - synthetic looking) dalmatic on, which DD2 kept getting rather close to with her candle, which was a bit nerve-wracking to watch. Setting fire to a crucifer not a recommended way of getting Easter to go with a bang!

We had: Thine be the glory, See what a morning, Jesus Christ is risen today, and something else that no-one knew. Plus a rather magnificent Te Deum to end with.

Not sure how many were there... over 300 at a guess. They had to bring in extra chairs, which is always a good sign! Lots of people are still coming in out of curiosity about the building, so let's hope that some of them stay.

Have been packing all afternoon, as we're off on holiday tomorrow (yay!) and DD1 and I have a band concert tonight. See you all in a couple of weeks, in case I don't manage to get on here while I'm away.

Housemum Sun 31-Mar-13 18:38:16

Hello, I'm just dipping back into this thread again - ages since I last posted. (Oops beginning to sound like a confession there!). Easter vigil last night was lovely, but strange for it to be so dark as clocks not gone forward, and so cold! Went this morning as well - must have been 300 or so at 9, apparently packed at 11 too (though possibly busier at both as no 6.30 this evening)

niminypiminy Sun 31-Mar-13 19:44:27

Happy Easter! Alleluia!! smilesmilesmile

We went to a different church today, which felt a bit odd, and slightly naughty, but was mostly lovely. (Actually I went to the Easter Vigil there last night which was beautiful and got to sing a hymn I really love, 'Sing of the Lord's goodness', which we'd never do at my usual church because it's in 5/4. And there was a baptism which was very moving.) There were loads of people there and lots for the children to do, and the joy that Christ is risen was so palpable and authentic.

Anyway, after a really dark Holy Week, it was good to be able to be joyful, and to hear and sing some music I like, and to be in a church where beauty is valued.

curryeater Sun 31-Mar-13 20:08:08

Happy Easter everyone.
Thank you for your support over the past couple of days.
A very joyful easter service for us this morning and lots of very welcome sunshine.

thegreatestMadHairDayinhistory Sun 31-Mar-13 20:49:08

So glad you've all had good days and experienced the joy of the resurrection.

smile niminy, sounds a nice church.

Tuo, what on the wide earth is a dalmatic??? Had visions of a Cruella DeVil stylee dalmation cloak round the Crucifer's neck grin

Have a good Easter week everyone.

SESthebrave Mon 01-Apr-13 08:55:23

Happy Easter to you all!

Curryeater - hope you are starting to feel better? Don't be hard on yourself and please do join our chat and share.

Mary - the FB service sounded very special.

I had a lovely and very blessed Easter. The liturgies of the Triduum were beautiful and enhanced by 6 adults from our RCIA group who were received into the Church. 2 of them had the full works - baptism, confirmation and first holy communion. I had the privilege of being Godmother to one. Their faces exuded the joy of Easter and it was beautiful. The Church was packed and the service didn't finish until 11pm (having started at 8.30pm) but it didn't feel like it had been too long. We then moved into our newly built parish centre for a party!

Lots of my church friends have gone to Celebrate this week in Ilfracombe. I really want to go one year but think I'll have to wait a few years until the DC are older.

Hope you all have a calm, strengthening BH Mon. We're on the road - off to visit the ILs in Ireland until Friday.

curryeater Mon 01-Apr-13 10:47:40

Thanks SESThebrave.
Uniqueandamazing, Dutchoma and the others thank you for your thoughts

Rowing with dp. I think I have to give up choir. couldn't take my kids to church on Christmas day or Easter day because of choir. dp thinks I go out every week (rehearsal) and he never goes out. I just don't think it is the right thing for us. I am feeling furious with him for having two lie-ins this weekend and me none but as far as he is concerned he is a hero because, among other things, I have a hobby but he doesn't. I have long work hours and commute and he thinks this is all great fun for me too, relative to getting the kids up and out (I am gone by the time they wake up). It is not, and I am exhausted. Giving up choir isn't going to solve all my problems but it might make dp resent me less because the rehearsal night happens to coincide with my work at home day so he is more likely to be able to get out on those nights (doesn't have to wait for me to finally get home before he can go out for the evening)

Sorry to go on and on about this, have trouble puzzling it all out because the thing is, without wanting to boast, it would cause a real problem for the very small choir to lose me because I sight read well and can sing sop or alto and swap parts with no notice. there are never enough people and I am a very multifunctional person. I will feel guilty about leaving but I feel guilty about doing it and I feel guilty about not being with my kids enough in general and not taking them to church on Christmas day or Easter Sunday. I am drinking too much again and I have a horrible feeling that I can only look after myself properly when I am being selfish and quite horrible to live with and the peace and quiet that I need to be myself and not have to drink is never going to happen without depriving my family of something. I want to be a stronger person and a nicer person

Dutchoma Mon 01-Apr-13 11:00:35

Curryeater Didn't want your post to go unanswered, but there is so much in it that needs answering. Even if you have to give up choir for a few weeks, don't give it up for good to please your partner.
It sounds to me as if he is difficult to please, whatever you do and it would be incredibly sad if you give up the one thing that you really enjoy and that is GOOD for you (singing releases all sorts of hormones that are good for you) to try and pacify someone who only thinks of his own pleasures.
How old are the children?
I need to go and make some bread now and then I am expecting a visit from dd, so may not be able to get back on here.
Just be assured that God loves you, whoever else doesn't.

curryeater Mon 01-Apr-13 11:17:48

Thanks Dutchoma. He didn't ask me to leave choir, actually he says he doesn't want me to.
I feel like he is so resentful of me often these days but he says he isn't. I don't quite believe him but I could be wrong. There is often, imo, an atmosphere. I might be imagining it, or not. he gets so tired with a hectic week where he takes the brunt of childcare because of my commute. (The thing is I don't even work enough! I should be there longer, I am permanently stressed about stuff I haven't done) I feel like he is resenting me for his stress and exhaustion but because he is not admitting to this we can't discuss it and I can't put my side across. But perhaps he is not admitting to it because it isn't even true?! I feel so tense at home all the time these days. he can be so quiet and withdrawn and I feel as if everything I say is pathetic and stupid.

curryeater Mon 01-Apr-13 11:18:28

sorry forgot to say the children are nearly 2 and nearly 4. they go to a cm locally and dp works locally

SESthebrave Mon 01-Apr-13 11:28:10

Curryeater - DO is certainly right about singing helping to release happy hormones. It seems a shame that your DH can't be happy for you to have something you enjoy doing and are good at. I pray that God wil guide you and improve the overall situation.

DO - hope visit from DD goes well.

cloutiedumpling Mon 01-Apr-13 12:40:09

Curry - some of what you have said rings a chord with me. It is difficult when you have young kids. I have 3. DH and I both work and it is hard to juggle everything and sometimes we do get a bit snappy. I think it is important for you each to have something that you like doing so that you each have a bit of downtime. Is there anything that your partner likes to do that he could do once you are home in the evenings, but not on your choir night? If he also had something to do he might not resent you having your time off too IYSWIM.

curryeater I go out to choir every week.as does dh. we also take dd with us,both to rehearsal and church services.
is there any way youcan take them with yiu? in my old choir, one of the ladies was a single mum of 2 boys and brought them with her. every week. there was also a creche in services, but in choir pactice, they would either sit with us or play with toys at the altar.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Dutchoma Mon 01-Apr-13 13:33:08

DD is too poorly to come today sad

curry, please talk to your choirmaster about letting your dcs come with you to practice. my friend's dcs were about the same ages. your dp could then go out the same evening without worrying about them.
also, please take the dcs with you to services, even when you're in the choir. there are always people in my church willjng to take dd for me when i'm singing

Dutchoma Mon 01-Apr-13 14:39:28

Just one more thing Curryeater: don't fall into the trap of thinking that it is right that 'a mother's place is in the wrong'.
You will feel 'guilty' whatever you do, so you might as well do something that benefits you and your small choir.

cloutiedumpling Mon 01-Apr-13 15:56:07

I gave up hobbies when the kids came along and now I regret it. I can pick things up again but wish I didn't have to. Don't make the same mistake as me!

curryeater Tue 02-Apr-13 09:34:04

Hi all
Feeling a lot better today. thanks for letting me talk it all through here.
DP is a very good father, has taken time off work to be SAHD for 9 months after my last mat leave ended and has now taken a local job in order to be there for the girls in the mornings and evenings. He is not trying to get out of parenting in any way and we are all very lucky to have him.

The issue is that my commute basically traps him in the house. I think we need to solve that rather than me give up choir. We just need to find a way to get some cover between say 6.30 and 7.30 on a regular basis so that he can do something for himself - because by the time I get home it is too late for him to get anywhere (play football, be in a reading / writing group - these are things he would like to do and because he can't go out he basically has no local friends, we have lived here over a year and he needs to meet some people). So we need to talk this through and work something out. It really feels like we have no slack at all - in time or money - but we can't carry on like this. It must be possible to find a tame teenager or someone who could give us an hour a week in return for a modicum of cash / fags / booze / drugs / whatever teenagers like.*

I can't take the girls with me to church when there is choir because we are robed and process. If there is sunday school I could conceivably get someone to take dd1 after sunday school but no one has offered and I feel stupid asking. dd2 is a menace and a non-starter, at nearly 2 she is a mischeivous little climber and I would not inflict her on anyone, but I don't mind leaving her at home so much because is dd1 who really gets something out of it.

*joke

curryeater Tue 02-Apr-13 09:40:14

Anyway to tenuously relate that last ramble back to Christianity, maybe I could find such a teenager at church? ;)

Sorry to be so me, me, me

I hope you are enjoying a beautiful Eastertide and have the pretty sunshine that we have here.

It is worth asking at church if someone can help out with looking after your DD. All our babysitters when my boys were young were girls from the youth group and some of the mums/grannies helped out when we were stumped for cover.

Church communities are families, bonkers and dynsfunctional at times but still pulling together but they need to know that there is a need they can help with.

Lovely and sunny here as well. Today is my official day off and the first day I've felt well for ages as a cold during one of the main Christian festivals is no fun. I may actually get out into my garden to see what is going on out there. As this is the first spring we have been here I've no idea what is going to be growing.

MaryBS Tue 02-Apr-13 11:07:55

Whereabouts in the country do you live, curryeater?

Am in desperate need of inspiration. I need to write my Churchwarden's annual report, can't think of a single thing to say. The other CW is saying all the usual stuff. Any ideas? Anyone got one they've prepared earlier? Please?

you've got to ask at church for help with them.
even if it's asking the sunday school leaders to keep them afterwards.

but we also wear robes and process. (DD has taken to walking up the church in front of us)
one option is to put them into the choir stalls with busy bags before you start the service, then join them.
the 4-yo is old enough to know how to sit quietly, but the 2yo is harder.

does dh not want to go to church?

curryeater Tue 02-Apr-13 11:28:43

ok, uniqueandamazing. I think I might be inhibited by the sneering faces the choirmaster always makes when the children come in from sunday school. He doesn't like them. dd1 is very good and if it wasn't for that I could easily imagine stashing her in the choir stalls after sunday school. I'll work on it.

Mary BS, we are in Herts.
What sort of things go in a churchwarden's report? can you just be nice about everyone who has done anything ever? who reads them?

we had a sneery choirmaster too (he didn't dislike children, he just disliked noise!).

but the problem with not liking children is not the choir problem, it's the choirmaster. a sure fire way to stop the next generation coming to church sad

SESthebrave Tue 02-Apr-13 13:39:28

Curryeater - that all sounds more positive. I also go to church with two DC and DH stays home. It is a struggle but DS (3.10yrs) is old enough for children's liturgy now and there is a girl who will look after 9mo DD for me whilst I take him the first few weeks to help him settle. Not sure that helps your specific situation other than, yes, there will be others in the congregation who will help out. The girl that helps me has occasionally done baby sitting for us too.

Mary - sorry, no good at CW reports. Maybe think about if you we're a member of the congregation reading it, what would make you think it a good report, worth reading.

Hello everyone else. We're now with ILs in Ireland. DS and DD being thoroughly entertained by the relatives, hence I have time for MN!

cloutiedumpling Tue 02-Apr-13 19:38:14

Curryeater - is there anyone at the church who has older kids who may be happy to look after boisterous young kids? Just thinking that someone who has been through it may have the confidence and ability to help.

Dutchoma Tue 02-Apr-13 19:40:55

Tame teenager is a great idea, but also think about a surrogate granny. Someone who is suffering from a bit of an empty nest syndrome and would quite like to look after your two littlies for an hour.

madhairday Tue 09-Apr-13 17:13:45

Hello all - this has gone a bit quiet, everyone busy in the holidays? We're enjoying a holiday from home this week - we were going to stay with my DBro and his family but they all have D&V sad So we're doing some family time here and catching up with friends which is nice. How is everyone?

ooh, it has been quiet!
it dropped off my TIO.

And I had all sorts of things to say this week, too.
Sorry to hear your DB's family is all ill and you had to change your plans sad

DH had to play at St Mary's on Sunday evening, not communion service, but it was nice.
I was talking to NVW after the service and some random woman came up and started chatting to her over me and so I went off for a bit (and nearly didn't have the courage to go back, but luckily we were all last to leave so we got chatting again.) Mid-sentence too, I was. hmm

madhairday Tue 09-Apr-13 17:31:47

oooh how rude! hmm

Sounds like NV and NVW are being really good for the place though so far smile

I know! shock

yes, they really are. NV did the same sermon as in the morning, and I whispered to NVW (we were the only ones sitting on the front row - I'm a keeno girly swot) "is it the same sermon!?" grin
Then as soon as I said that, he started choking on himself (he said he'd cut the grass and it was tickling him) - I called out "you didn't do that this morning!"
anyway, you know how I said before that he does a good sermon? well, I have to say, it was even good enough to sit through twice. grin
I heard the morning's one, and sometimes my mind wanders, and the evening one might have been slightly different, but I still enjoyed it - meant I was able to concentrate on the bits I'd missed in the morning.

Tuo Sat 13-Apr-13 19:32:43

Just back from filming for Songs of Praise. Taking dd2 with jet-lag was a baaaaaaaad idea. Her tolerance levels for eleventy-squillion takes of everything, plus rehearsals, plus 'let's just do it once more for the visuals' was very low indeed. I am 90% certain there will no shots of us, due to her variously pulling faces, leaning against the wall, refusing to sing, and whining. Ah well... you live and learn! We'll be broadcast in October...

Nice to be back. You've all been quiet while I've been away...

Tuo Sat 13-Apr-13 19:33:49

*tolerance levels ... were [must preview]

niminypiminy Sat 13-Apr-13 21:37:08

Hey Tuo! How was your holiday? Will definitely watch Songs of Praise when you're on. Sounds heroic that you got there with jet lag.

I've been on a bit of a break because the dcs' school is being threatened with being turned into an academy and I'm leading the governor working party fighting the bastards from the DfE researching the options. It's grim and depressing. Our lovely school, that has been so supportive of ds1 and where he's settled so well ... I hate to think what will happen if it has to be taken over by some snotty school in a leafy village, and when all the good teachers and the head leave. Yuck.

More positively I have a new pair of pink suede shoes that are very cheering, and ds2 and I went on an epic train trip around Sussex from Chichester to Rye. We stayed in a delightful b&b in Bognor (which was pretty nasty) and brought the average age of the occupants down by several decades. It's nice to feel young once in a while ! smile

oh, you can guarantee there will be a shot of her pulling faces! grin

I'm so glad you're trying to fight academy status. one of the best ways of privatizing schools from the inside hmm

okay, I asked NV the questions.
I told him about the thread and that the questions were very important indeed, he wouldn't be judged on them, and that I promised that no one in either church would ever see them. I told him he had to do gut feeling and not to try to answer how he thought he was expected to. grin
happy clappy or traditional?
he ummed and ahhed on that because he was tryibg to work out what it meant (I said modern instead of happy clappy but when I reworded it he started to interpret it himself) conclusion, traditional.
choir or singing group?
organ or keyboards/bands? organ
(both music qiestions were answered without hesitation)
hymn books or screens? hymnbooks. (then he blathered on a bit about freeing gands and concentrating and etc etc but hymnbooks was his gut answer)
and the important one: do you like Graham Kendrick? no. byt then he backtracked, ummed and ahhed, made lots of comments trying to work out "what I meant", trying to devide whether it was all bad or some of itwas good, some of it's awful and some quite nice etc. his gut instinct and immediate answer was no, so that's what I'm taking
grin
so NV is on my team grin
soooo desperate to get NVW's answers, but too nervous in case she's on the other team
grin

sorry, I somehow deleted an answer.
choir or singing group? - choir

Tuo Sun 14-Apr-13 15:13:55

Go NV! grin

You're probably right, Nickel - err... I mean Unique&Amazing - about them filming DD pulling faces. Great ... so we're going to be plastered all over the BBC with her gurning and me looking fed up at her fed-upness. blush

They actually filmed two programmes yesterday. The first will be shown on 28th April, but the second (which we went to) won't be on till October. I thought of you, Nickel, as the person behind me was moaning loudly that they had chosen all 'old' hymns... even though one of ours was the Stuart Townsend version of 'The Lord's My Shepherd'. We also had 'O Worship the King', 'O For a Thousand Tongues to Sing', 'For the Beauty of the Earth', and 'The Day Thou Gavest Lord is Ended', so pretty trad, admittedly!

niminy... The holiday was fab. We were delayed by a day on the way out due to technical problems, but once we were there it was wonderful. We saw some nice new (and old) places, and got to catch up with some very special friends. DD2 wanted to stay. Again. (She didn't really want to come back the last time...) I wish it wasn't so expensive to get over there... and that there was no such thing as 'time zones'... the lack of sleep coming back is a killer!

New pink shoes sound just the ticket, and the trip with DS2 sounds great too. Good luck with fighting off the bastards from the DfE.

I'm stillnickel smile

that Stuart Townend is old grin

Tuo Sun 14-Apr-13 15:29:00

Depends where your definition of 'modern' begins! (e.g. I think that I am quite 'modern'; my children would define me as 'ancient'!)

exactly. nv said somewhere people were defining modern as 1980s, when the "traditional" service was put together in 2000, so modern was older than traditional.

thanksamillion Sun 14-Apr-13 18:01:26

I love that you asked NV the questions nickel grin

Am envy at new pink suede shoes. I'm wearing wellies mostly at the moment and never get to wear nice shoes anymore <sob>

We had our team of six here and it all worked out ok. I cooked for between 11 and 15 each evening but they washed/cleared up and helped out generally so it wasn't too bad. They also made lots of progress in renovating the building and fencing in the park. They also raised lots of money so we've been able to buy the park equipment etc that we wanted smile The house feels really empty now. In fact I feel like the old lady in A Squash and a Squeeze.

madhairday Sun 14-Apr-13 19:48:36

That sounds great milly, you must be worn out!

well nickel, it would seem that NV is on teamnickel, holding out for NVW answers...

niminy, sounds a lovely break, and jealous at the shoes also.

Tuo, so glad you had a good time, and I also will watch SOP, those songs are all good except The Day Thou Gavest which depresses me a little.

Yes, modern can be defined as 70s/80s and postmodern as noughties plus I think.

Had a nice holiday, but looking back to getting back to normal. Not well again, another infection which is being told to leave the building before I take dd to see 1d on weds...

Dutchoma Sun 14-Apr-13 20:28:58

It's so funny because I had never seen A Squash and a Squeeze and then my ddil mentioned it yesterday and recited almost the whole book from memory. Apparently it is one of dgdaughter's favourites.