Is telling children that they believe in God the same as telling them about Santa?

[Pruners]

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[nooka]

I think it depends on your viewpoint. I am an aetheist and I am happy to tell my children "about" many things. But I'm not in the line of making up stories and then persuading my children that they are true. Whether that is about God or Father Christmas. I guess for me the difference is that Father Christmas is just a tradition, and doesn't mean that much to most adults, whereas God is fairly fundamental to many people's lives. So I'm happy to say that Father Christmas is as "real" as Cinderella to my dd, but I would be a little more diplomatic about God (especially as my parents and sister are committed Christians). Christmas can be a special and enjoyable time of the year without either a belief in God or Father Christmas!

[Pruners]

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[ChasingSquirrels]

I had a real issue with FC and promoting it to ds, however I have kind of gone along with it - but letting others promote it and being rather non committal about it myself. Someone made asked whether I had even been tramatised by my parents having the FC story with me - and no of course I wasn't, I thought it was magical - which is what made me go with it.
I have already told ds the tooth fairy doesn't exist - although he doesn't believe me
In my opinion it is nothing like on a par with the faith situation, the reason I am uneasy about it is because I don't like lying to people.

[Rhubarb]

I believe in God and Jesus and I don't tell my kids about Father Christmas.

The thing I don't get is that people complain about religion being pushed down kids throats and Christians peddling crap to kids. Yet we are ok with telling them about Father Christmas and encouraging them to make lists and think of Christmas as a time of want want want.

This society has double standards.

People think it's ok to tell my children that God does not exist, yet I would never dream of telling another child that FC does not exist. It's not my business.

[Pruners]

Message withdrawn

[ChasingSquirrels]

I am also a bit [not quite sure of the emoticon] that people would tell your child that god doesn't exist - unless it was in religious studies classes where different gods were being explained, or I guess another child whose parents don't believe.
I tell my child that I don't believe in god and that he can make his own mind up when he is older (I do appreciate that I am influencing him).
I also don't really understand the use of fc as a comparison with god, unless people are continuing to tell their children that fc is true when they reach adulthood.

[ExplosiveScienceT]

I don't think they are the same - certainly not the same in importance.

I don't object to my children knowing about the life and work of St Nicholas, and about how he worked out his Christian faith at Christmastime - that of giving. We have always taught our children that Christmas is about giving, not getting.

The problem with the secular Christmas is that is all about getting things, especially for children, and the giving is a matter of great dread and drudgery. What I really, really loathe about what parents tell their children about Santa is that they have to be good if they are going to get their presents. This is the complete opposite of the true Christmas message.

[Rhubarb]

Well yes people have told my kids that God does not exist. So have other children at their school.

You see, the difference is that for us, being a Christian is a way of life, it's following a set of guidelines set out in the Bible, such as never to judge, never lie or steal, always forgive, never seek out revenge, etc etc. Some of our guidelines are in conflict with this dog eat dog society, especially the one that says rich people have as much chance of getting to heaven as a camel getting through the eye of a needle.

FC also supports a way of life. One that says you must ask for lots of presents and then thank some imaginary man for it.

I don't tell my kids something I don't believe in. We tell them not to lie, yet when you tell them about FC that is a lie. Mixed messages.

Even if you don't believe in God, you can still appreciate the Bible and read your child the stories in there as each one has a moral. I can't see anything good about telling kids about FC.

[nooka]

Actually Pruners I really dislike the whole Father Christmas thing, the difference is that I don't feel the need to be careful of my views to the children. I would (and have)said Father Christmas is a totally made up story and there is not a word of truth to it, but I would not say the same about Jesus/God because children can repeat what you say to others, and making offensive remarks to someone about something fundamental to the basis of their life is different to saying "well my mums says FC is made up". However I don't think it is my business to say to anyone else's child that either God/Jesus or FC does not exist. Or does for that matter.

[Rhubarb]

Exactly nooka, my feelings to a tee, just on the opposite side re God there!

[nooka]

But I really don't think that FC supports a way of life because most families only talk about FC for about a month before Christmas don't they? and surely God is for life not just Christmas (sorry couldn't resist!). Agree that Christmas should be focused on giving not receiving.

[serin]

If Christmas symbolises the birth of baby Jesus then I think its fitting that its the happiest day of the year for my children.

Father Christmas brings them gifts but the gifts are nothing compared to the gifts their heavenly Father can give to them.

And I'm not talking about tons of toys on Christmas morning, (although they do get a few), last year their favourite presents were the baby blankets and magic milk from Unicef, which are still on display on their bedside tables.

Pruners; my kids believe/believed in Tooth Fairies, Father Christmas, Leprechauns (once spent a whole week looking for them), Easter Bunny, Mermaids and a little tiny man who lives in the piano and hits the notes with a hammer!!!!

I'm with Billy Connolly on this one, If you can't have magic when you're a child when can you??

Our eldest child has just stopped believing in FC this year, it hasn't affected her belief in God.

[clandestine]

Well you know the whole thing about giving is that someone has to be comfortable about receiving!

It never ceases to amaze me that people witter on about all the present people give other people at Christmas. as if giving was something to be ashamed of!

My not very well off DD has been sitting for the last few days juggling her entire wealth around and looking at the argos catalog trying to work out what she will buy for everyone for Christmas. I would batter them over the head with a blunt instrument if they dare to suggest that her gifts are not welcome or are part of an over commercialisation of Christmas. My 9 yo DD is displaying all that is good about the world and if anyone pisses on her I will be furious!

[GooseyLoosey]

I view relgion as a belief system that pervades many aspects of your life and do not therefore want people telling my DCs that there is a God.

I view Santa as a benign fantasy which I collaborate in to add to the magic of childhood. They will grow out of it as they grow up. Until such point as they do, I will also continue to take them dragon hunting and will not be informing dd that Cinderella is not literal truth.

If Santa became pervasive and was presented as a fact to the DCs which should affect the way they live their lives, I would have a problem with it. Unless or until this happens, it is harmless fun. If they still believe at 20, then I may review this point of view.

[UnquietDad]

Let's be honest, there is a big difference here - everyone has realised about FC by the age of 10, but not everyone who believes in god as a child stops believing in it as an adult. FC is a harmless childhood fantasy like the Tooth Fairy (and I think DD, who is 7, has twigged about that one!)... and FC doesn't require people to give up anything, lead their life in a certain way, worship anything, etc.

With god, there's more than the simple question of belief or non-belief. There's all the baggage that goes with it about the Christian way of life, worship, etc.

I personally can't "prove" god doesn't exist. Contrary to the views of some theists, that's not a weakness in my argument - it's simply a philosophical impossibility. You can't prove the non-ness of something. And, to return the favour, I don't usually challenge Christians to "prove" their god - I appreciate it isn't possible to do so in terms I would necessarily accept. But neither they, nor I, can prove or disprove Thor, Apollo, Ra, Father Christmas or the Tooth Fairy... doesn't mean we should necessarily believe in these things. You have to look at how likely these things are.

If I admit to the 0.001% possibility that god might exist, that's nothing like enough for me to live my life as if it does. I'd need 50% at least before I'd take a punt. There is no way anyone could ever demonstrate 50% to me. And even if I were to believe - a huge leap, and one which would involve me deliberately choosing to leave behind my faculties of critical reasoning - that only takes me to the point where I'd accept this thing exists. It would then be another huge leap across the logic chasm to establish that this thing is somehow worthy of my "worship". I don't do "worship" - I find it a very unhealthy mental attitude.

[SueBaroo]

UQD, I'm sensing a theme recently

[Tinker]

I think telling kids about Santa is good practice for them then realising god doesn't exist. A gentle clue and nudge in the right direction.

[UnquietDad]

Haunted by teenage memories of having to mutter that I was a "miserable offender", probably!!

[UnquietDad]

Suebaroo, what do you think about the idea that if there's a god who's perfect in every way, he's perfectly modest? And so he wouldn't seek "praise" or "worship" at all and would actually quite like it if people stopped going on about how wonderful he was?

[SueBahHumbug]

I suppose it all comes down to what 'worship' means.

I understand 'worship' to be 'ascribing worth'. So, I learn more and more about a being who creates amazing things, and shows great love, I consider that being to be 'worth' praising.
If you were an astonishingly clever man who designed a brilliant piece of architecture, it would be false modesty and rather silly to say "Oh, no, really, don't give me that award, I'm rubbish, really".

So your 'leap' problem, from the unreachable accepting that God exists to the worship of that God, is essentially about the identity of an Almighty, perfect deity.

It's a bit like the way you would treat a cheque for 20p, and a cheque for £100,000,000. If you were to accept that the cheque existed, that's one thing. The next step would be to find out how much the cheque was worth.

[Tortington]

my children bellieved in FC. and we are catholic and i dont think that the two are mutually exclusive - not do i believe that it perpetuates capitalism - rahter the style pf parenting does that.

i think its a loverly imaginary wonderland full of excitement and joy for all involved.

[UnquietDad]

"i think its a loverly imaginary wonderland full of excitement and joy for all involved."

But enough about heaven, what about Christmas?

[serin]

UQD!!!!

Very funny!!! LOL!!!!

Would have said exactly the same thing myself and indeed spent most of my adult life vigorously ridiculing the faith that I was brought up in.

...and then two years ago when I was at an absolute low and there was no one to help, thats when God entered my life and put everything right again.

I think you are right in that you can't prove one way or the other if God exsists, you have to take it on Faith don't you.

I know that my life is infinitely better and I am so much stronger for having Faith.

[UnquietDad]

A lot of people seem to have "found" god when they they were at a low and looking for something to fill a hole in their lives. That alone is interesting.

[serin]

UQD

Yes totally agree