Why do people claim witches do not exist?

[Rockpebblestone]

Watching the One Show last night and heard this. It made me wonder why.

Personally I view witchcraft as a sort of 'belief system' related to the practice of rituals in an attempt to influence events. Whether you believe there is any truth in this (belief system), or power behind the rituals, does not relate to the fact that there are people who regard themselves as practising witchcraft and thus are witches.

So why say there is no such thing as witches?

[thegreenheartofmanyroundabouts]

I used to know a number of wiccans but I can't remember how they felt about the term witch. Someone will rock up soon and tell us.

[specialsubject]

There are witches, same way as there are proponents of other religions.

What none of them have is any special powers.

[HallowedMimic]

Obviously, when people deny the existence of witches, they mean the 'flying around on broomsticks' type.

[user1474627704]

Are there people who call themselves witches? Obviously.
Are there people who can actually influence the world with spells and chants and curses? No, there are not.

I think its pretty obvious that people "believe" in the former but not the latter.

[InvasionOfTheBodyShatners]

They're right to say there's no such thing as women with magic powers. Someone can call themself a witch, in the same way someone can call themself a psychic.

[Rockpebblestone]

Yes but people do not casually deny the existence of, for example, Evangelical Christians, even though they might not share their beliefs. So I think it must be deeper somehow than simply not 'believing in' any power that a witch or witchcraft might be seen as holding.

[PurpleDaisies]

So I think it must be deeper somehow than simply not 'believing in' any power that a witch or witchcraft might be seen as holding.

What do you think the "something deeper" is? I agree with the other posters-thete are people who call themselves witches but they don't have the ability to do magic. The psychic analogy is a good one.

[InvasionOfTheBodyShatners]

No, having a belief is different to claiming that you have supernatural powers. I believe in all sorts of religious people because they exist. They're not claiming to be anything remarkable or magic.

I believe there are people that call themselves witches. I don't believe they are witches.

[Qwerdy1234]

My gf is a witch.

I don't know why people are OK with Christian priests turning water into wine and people praying and getting miracles performed but they don't believe that pagan spell work is real.

It's all about positive belief and putting out energy.

There are a lot of similarities in them (because a lot of the symbolism was stolen from the pagans) Alters, chalice, robes, candle work, incense...

But one is seen as accepted the other is 'woo'.

[user1474627704]

Yes but people do not casually deny the existence of, for example, Evangelical Christians, even though they might not share their beliefs

I think you are missing a very big point. What are you defining the word "witch" as meaning?
Nobody denies the existence of people who call themselves Evangelical Christians: they do deny the existence of a christ.
Nobody denies the existence of people who call themselves witches, they do deny the existence of magic/witchy-woo.

What is so hard to follow here?

[PurpleDaisies]

I don't know why people are OK with Christian priests turning water into wine and people praying and getting miracles performed but they don't believe that pagan spell work is real.

Do people in general believe that Christian priests can do that and miracles happen now?

[Qwerdy1234]

So claiming to take a normal piece of bread and turn it into the ACTUAL body of Christ is not 'supernatural'?

[user1474627704]

I don't know why people are OK with Christian priests turning water into wine and people praying and getting miracles performed but they don't believe that pagan spell work is real

Again, not difficult to get. Most people don't believe that priests turn water into wine (Nobody, in fact, since I think you;re confusing a biblical story with a catholic mass and a catholic priest supposedly turning wine into blood )

People who believe in a particular religion believe in theirs and not in others. MAny people believe in none of it. There is no dichotomy here.

[Qwerdy1234]

Well they are supposed to. It is the basis of their religion.

[user1474627704]

Which religion is that? And what is the basis of it?

[PurpleDaisies]

I would dispute that most people believe that qwerty. Its certainly not a mainstream Christian view.

[InvasionOfTheBodyShatners]

So claiming to take a normal piece of bread and turn it into the ACTUAL body of Christ is not 'supernatural'?

I don't know anything about this or other supernatural claims that some religious people make, but yeah, that's definitely another brand of bollocks. Remember though, one load of bollocks doesn't make another load of bollocks more credible.

[Rockpebblestone]

user I have given my own definition in my opening post.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a witch. However I do think witchcraft can be seen to have a powerful psychological effect on people who do believe in it. Enough not to dismiss the existence of witches and witchcraft entirely. And if people are not doing this, why are they saying, 'There is no such thing as witches?'

[user1474627704]

Yes you did, but you from that it seems that you think that there are people who deny the existence of people who call themselves witches. Do you think people often deny the existence of people they can see and hear?
You arent making sense at all.
No-one at all denies that there are people that believe themselves to be witches. They deny that they actually are witches, using the definition of witches having some kind of magical power.

It's difficult to see why you are struggling with such a simple point.

[Rockpebblestone]

user I think is culturally interesting that a comment regarding witches would be framed in such a way, as in 'do not exist' whereas a comment concerning a proponent of one of the mainstream religions would not be. This does not constitute 'struggling'.

[user1474627704]

It really does. You are not equating like with like.

witches would be framed in such a way, as in 'do not exist' whereas a comment concerning a proponent of one of the mainstream religions would not be

Because the former is commenting on what they can "do" and the latter is commenting on what they "believe".

You've failed to define your question properly.

[IamtheZombie]

I would dispute that most people believe that qwerty. Its certainly not a mainstream Christian view.

When did the Catholic Church cease to be mainstream?

[Elphame]

Society in general is afraid of us so it is easier to deny that we exist.

We stand outside the norm, are not subject to the fear peddled by the church (which still unfortunately has enormous power in Britain) and we think for ourselves.

Samhain blessings to all

[user1474627704]

Society in general is afraid of us so it is easier to deny that we exist

Really? Why do you imagine we are afraid of you? What do you do that is so scary?

I think its easier to deny "witches" exist because they don't, in the accepted sense of the word. Everyone knows that "people who claim to be witches" exist though, no-one denies their existence.

[Rockpebblestone]

user my question is my own. We are allowed to ask open ended questions as well as more closed ones.

It is interesting that you see a witch as being definitive of what someone 'can do', the assumption being you view being a Christian (or any other religion) is somehow viewed as involving less 'doing'. That is not how I, personally, see Christianity, practice should inevitably follow belief, if the belief is real.