Christian wiccian

[Mosseywossey]

Sorry in advance I am typing in my phone.
I have always been drawn to wiccian/pagan and Druid belief and rituals, however I am quite a strong believer in God and Christian.
I am thinking about mixing the two together.
Prayers are like spells when we come down to basics, they are also another form of worship to God, aren't they? I would be worshiping God and as God is in all things, eg natural, it does support some of the Wiccan belief system.
So in essence I would be merging aspect of both faiths. I know some people think they are polar oppersites but I actual think they have big similaries, (which I won't go into as I don't want to turn this into a full brown religious debate, but feel free to pm if you want to discuss it)
Am I just being silly? Or this is possible? And are their people out their who identify as Christian pagan, wiccian or Druid ? Or interested in it. Please be kind

[niminypiminy]

I'm sorry to have to tell you that Paganism/Wicca and Christianity just aren't compatible. For Christians the three-in-one God - God the Father, Jesus Christ his Son, and the Holy Spirit - is the only God. Wiccans and Pagans believe in a range of nature spirits, gods and goddesses.

Prayers are a form of worship, but they're not like spells. They're not trying to make God do something - Christians ask God, not tell him what to do!

You might find something of what you are looking for in Forest Church which brings together some of the old traditions about sacred places in nature with Christian worship.

[niminypiminy]

I'm sorry to have to tell you that Paganism/Wicca and Christianity just aren't compatible. For Christians the three-in-one God - God the Father, Jesus Christ his Son, and the Holy Spirit - is the only God. Wiccans and Pagans believe in a range of nature spirits, gods and goddesses.

Prayers are a form of worship, but they're not like spells. They're not trying to make God do something - Christians ask God, not tell him what to do!

You might find something of what you are looking for in Forest Church which brings together some of the old traditions about sacred places in nature with Christian worship.

[Rockpebblestone]

I agree with niminy in that the essential difference between Wicca and Christianity is belief in one 'three in one God', Father, Son and Holy Spirit - as the only God. Christians do not worship any other spirits, gods or goddesses. As a Christian I believe Christ shows us God, what is good. I don't believe Wicca has quite the same view in determining what is good/Godly.

However you may see similarities in the expression of Christian worship. Festivals fall into a rhythm with the seasons. In the Catholic Church, especially, although in some Anglican churches too, many Saints are remembered and prayers often involve seeking their 'intercession'. Some people have said some Saints bear a striking resemblance to some Pagan gods. There are accounts of miracles, rites, rituals and Holy relics.

Although in saying this, for me at least, all the outward expression is an outward expression of faith in God or an outward demonstration of His power rather than a belief in the power of a ritual or relic itself. It is God that has the power not a particular ritualistic action or the person in performing it.

So, being Christian involves believing in God, as said earlier. You could explore this. If you find yourself believing in God, you could then probably find a church to suit the kind of spiritual expression / understanding you feel you are drawn to in Wicca. Essentially though, it depends on what your most predominate belief involves - God as the power working through you knowing Christ (Christian) or yourself through performing rituals and engaging with spirits (Wicca/Pagan).

[Rockpebblestone]

So I think your 'merging the two' can sort of be done a little in outward appearance - the structural and practical elements. However this cannot be done in terms of Faith or belief because whilst both acknowledge the supernatural only one, that is Christianity, acknowledges the Christian Triune God as the one true God. This really affects the reasoning and meaning behind any religious/spiritual expression.

[Mosseywossey]

Thanks for the reply guys.
I have been keen on this idea for quite a while, and your view points are really really helpful.
As you said Rockpebblestone Christianity worships the 'three in one god'
Traditionally in Wicca, the Goddess is seen as the Triple Goddess, meaning that she is the maiden, the mother and the crone. While i do think they are different i think they have similarities. I found what you said about the Saint and the pagan gods being similar really interesting
I definitely believe in God but i do like the Pagan system of worship and attitude.
I only want to worship god, and i do think there of lower beings like saints being patrons over certain things. I haven't really looked at other churches as where i live there is only a methodist or baptist church. There is also a Catholic church but i don't agree that any mere man can absolve you of sins that only God can.
I am interesting in the old Christian form of worship as i think that actually correlates more with my needs. It's just really hard to find a way.
Thanks for the link the the Forsest Chruch

[Mosseywossey]

I am also interested in the more spiritual slide of religion.

[Rockpebblestone]

It's just really hard to find a way

Just keep looking, Mossey,

"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:" (Matthew 7:7 KJV).

[Rockpebblestone]

Oh and the other thing is, that Wicca, is relatively new in that it is a 'reconstructed' religion. As far as I understand, it is based on what are believed to be Pagan practises but the exact nature of these practises are very difficult to establish. Regarding the validity of Neo-Pagan practises we only have a little bit of archeology, very little contemporary writing from those practising, a few folk songs / stories and some people who claim to have either communed with 'spirits' or claim to have been reincarnated, to establish what the original practises actually were. The reconstructionalist nature of any Neo-Paganist religion means that the expressive language used is likely to fit more within contemporary society, simply because it is reconstructed. Older traditions, without the freedom of being able to reconstruct, always have to find their way more in this, constantly reviewing what is essential to the faith versus what is merely cultural.

[user1471552005]

Christian churches take a dim view of witchcraft -Exodus 22:18

[Rockpebblestone]

Yes, user, simply because Witchcraft denies the Christian God as being the one true God. If individuals, purely through their own power and learning, without any reference to what is Godly or right, perform supernatural acts, this leads to the raising up of self / an individual. Added to this, as Occult practises are secret by definition, there is no sharing of power for the common good. Christianity is the opposite of Occult, as believers are encouraged to be open and honest about their beliefs.

[Mosseywossey]

Thanks Rockpebblestone!
I read many articles that, i found a few Professors that suggest this was a primitive form of Christianity, one god but many aspects of them in different forms, ect.
I don't think what i want to do would be considered witchcraft as i will be believing in God but having another form of worship. Matthew 18:20,
and
Acts 17:24, "God...dwelleth not in temples made with hands;"
That is why i feel nature is the best place to worship as God is with all things.

[weegiemum]

While its not exactly what you're talking about, I wonder if you might find something in the New monastic communities? One I am connected to and know best is the Northumbria Community. Not Wiccan but very much interested in times and seasons, patterns and connection to the natural world.

[Rockpebblestone]

Mossey , apt quote - further on in that passage it says this,

"27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:"

I think, though, if you wish to explore further how Christianity (as opposed to Pagan belief) relates/resounds, do no better than some deeper reflection and Bible study regarding what Jesus taught. As I said, there are similarities, perhaps reflecting upon some common spiritual yearnings and experiences, but some distinct differences in belief.

[GipsyDanger]

Go for it. What is the #1 rule of Wicca? Essentially, do what you want so long as you aren't hurting anyone.

[Mosseywossey]

Thank you!
I have been doing some studies into it and will continue it more and perhaps trying to find other people with similar beliefs and values to mine. Hopefully there will be other people out there who are interested in it.

[thegreenheartofmanyroundabouts]

As mentioned up thread Forest Church would be a good place to look. Their website lists a number of meetings around the country and there are new ones starting up all the time. The host website for Forest Chu ch is Mystic Christ and you might find some resources to help you there. Www.mysticchrist.co.uk. Another strand to look at is Celtic Christianity or perhaps the Christian contemplative tradition.

[OutwiththeOutCrowd]

Mossey, in the broadest sense Christianity and Paganism are systems of thought that give form to the ineffable and I do see elements of similarity in them. Like you, I see a link between prayer and spells, these being ways of reaching out and connecting through words and ritual to a greater power.

But drawing such comparisons is anathema to mainstream Christians. And therein lies the problem for you. In most conventional churches, you will receive a frosty reception if you admit to being drawn towards Pagan ideas. As others have written, the Bible is condemnatory of witchcraft and most Christians will take their cue from that.

Personally, I suspect that the picture painted in the Bible is a distorted one. I imagine that witches were, for the most part, benign, trying, in what was a very uncertain and precarious world, to help and heal in primitive ways using herbs/natural products and rituals.

Given the view of orthodox Christianity, one possible way forward would be to investigate Unitarianism. While Christianity insists on there being one path to God, the path illuminated by Jesus, Unitarianism embraces religious pluralism. Unitarianism has its roots in Christianity but encourages an exploration of the ideas offered by other belief systems. There is actually a subgroup of Unitarians called the Unitarian Earth Spirit Network that describes itself as being

For those spiritual beings who find divinity in nature

unitarianearthspiritnetworkandfile.wordpress.com/the-unitarians/

Unfortunately, the group appears to be quite a small one so may only offer an opportunity for connecting if you live in a particular part of the country.

Nevertheless, Unitarianism in general does seem like a possibility if you have a Christian background but your beliefs don’t fit neatly into a particular religious package.

If you do go in that direction though, orthodox Christians will regard you as dodgy because they regard trinitarianism as absolutely central.

[MysteriesOfTheOrganism]

It really depends on what you believe religion to be and what it means for you. You are perfectly free to have whatever relationship with the divine that you wish. It need not make sense to anyone else but you.

But that is, of course, a Wiccan attitude, and doesn't go down too well in the mainstream religions, who are generally very keen on dogma (all the things that you are allowed to believe and to do, and all the things you're not).

Strictly speaking, Wicca isn't a religion. It's an umbrella term for a whole range of spiritual practices that perhaps only share a core belief in the importance of honouring both the feminine and the masculine, in respecting the natural world and in embracing free will, choice and responsibility. .

You could certainly borrow aspects of Wicca and paganism - but merging them with Christianity? That does not make sense.

For example: Do you believe in original sin? Do you believe that human beings are fundamentally flawed and need to be redeemed through acceptance of Christ? Do you believe that we "should" follow God's rules (as interpreted by the Church) and that after death we will be judged?

These are all core tenets of christianity that I doubt any Wiccans share.

Are you seriously looking to redefine your spiritual belief system - or are you seeking alternative forms of worship? There's a big difference!

[Rockpebblestone]

MysteriesOfTheOrganism
For example: Do you believe in original sin? Do you believe that human beings are fundamentally flawed and need to be redeemed through acceptance of Christ? Do you believe that we "should" follow God's rules (as interpreted by the Church) and that after death we will be judged?

I think the Christian Church is actually broader than you suggest here. For example just on the topic of original sin, there are Christians, very seriously, discussing the theology of it, here:

forum.ship-of-fools.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=019764

The way we are judged and can judge is debated, 'rules' over God's Grace is debated.

There is much mystery within Christianity and more esoteric branches of Christianity.

Again, as I have said, when there are ancient and well established Church traditions, more work might have to be done, in order to establish what is vital to the faith and it's spirituality, versus what is merely cultural. However this is entirely what would be expected from a way of life which has not been re-constructed, as Neo-Paganistic beliefs are. If you re-construct, with little in the way of a sure, concrete, reference, to what beliefs and practises have gone before - especially when what was gone before was often Occult (hidden), there is a certain freedom to construct something that appeals to whatever is most predominant in the popularist culture's Zeitgeist .

[Mosseywossey]

I'm not sure what i want.
I think I want to redefine my way of worship.
I have looked through a read a vast majority of the bible and found a lot of evidence that supports my ideas and beliefs. I feel that a lot of the 'mainstream' religion have lost touch with a lot of the bible in certain areas.
I don't think there is a particular form of worship that is the 'correct' way, it's just that mainstream religions have told us how to worship and anything other than that is wrong. ( at least my experience)
I want to have more freedom and the more acceptance that Wiccans offer.
I want to celebrate some of the Wiccans holidays as i think they are quite important. I would do spells and prays but i would say God instead of Goddess. I would follow a lot of the Christian teachings but combined them with Wiccan teaching as well.
The MysteriesOfTheOrganism I do believe we should follow Gods rule but not interpreted by me as the church as i think they are a bit corrupt.
At the minute im trying to learn more but im struggling to find out more information

[Rockpebblestone]

Mossey

The thing to remember here, is that you have your own personal spiritual journey. Posters on here can only reflect on what you gave said in terms of their own knowledge and experiences. However I for one, and I am Christian, can most certainly understand and empathise with what you have said. I see similarities within Christianity and Oaganism too, although I have rejected what would be considered Pagan belief I can appreciate some common observances.

As a side note to this, I looked at the website thegreenheart mentioned, Mystic Christ, which overtly links Christian celebration and prayer with Pagan festivals - I second that this might be a good place for you to investigate. The passage Romans 14, I find, is also a good one to contemplate as it validates the diversity in religious expression and devotion Christians can have.

[Rockpebblestone]

Paganism. Typo.

[user1471552005]

Also remember that a lot of the "good" bits of the bible are simply observations of human society.
Things like being good and kind,helping one another, having hope etc are themes that run throughout the whole of human civilisation.
"Goodness" is not a christian invention- altruism runs through all cultures. The bible is merely a description of the harmonious features that are common to peaceful society.
Altrusitic behaviour is observed in all higher primates, not just homo sapien.

Gods ( or godesses) can mean many things. In ancient greek culture they were archetypal, for me ( an atheist witch) my gods and godesses are immanent, they reside with in me and others as metaphors and common ideas- but very much an invention on mankind.

[Rockpebblestone]

user Christians believe God is in Christ, who is in them and also that we were made in the image of God, which essentially means we each have an aspect of the Divine (which is good), immanently in us. Except that we can grown in our knowledge and acceptance of Christ, so becoming more Christlike, more good, more like God - there is no immanent finite capacity for this. This is what I find difficult with overly secular beliefs, that is the suggestion of a limitation of potential, according to the particular current scientific understanding of an individual's genetic limitations.

[user1471552005]

"secular beliefs"

Luckily secularism is not a belief system.