Making a Secondary School Choice - Community or Statistics

[ILovedThe90s]

So confused and looking for some faith related advice. Lots of good secondary schools round this way, except the one we are in the catchment area for. It's currently in special measures and doesn't do very well compared to the others in terms of GCSE results. However, at this local school my DC will know lots of kids who are from the same religion as them, they've met through faith lessons (lessons that stop once they go to secondary school) and from primary school. With the other schools, our religion is not well represented (ie 2 out of 1500 students). It's mainly for peer support during religious festivals and friendship groups of similar values and beliefs that we are thinking of.

DH and I are torn between potentially isolating our DC from their local faith community, which might affect their religious future, or going to an underperforming school that also might affect their future!

I hope that makes sense, and not too rambly. What would you do?

[steppemum]

If you had 2 more equal schools to choose from I would say no question go for the school with more kids form their community. But given that it is in special measures I would be very uncertain.
Even with support it takes a while to turn a school around, and there is no guarantee that it is getting good intervention to turn it round.

I understand your reluctance to use a school where there are only 2/1500 form your faith group, as I always think it is not in the best interests of a child to be in a very small minority.

I am wondering though, what about this year's year 6. How many are going for the other school because the local school is in special measures? How many of her friends from this year will apply to the other school? Do you think that they may end up as a bigger group in her year group?

I think that their religion is much, much more likely to be influenced by home than by school, but being a very small minority group isn't great.

[ILovedThe90s]

Thanks so much for your reply Steppemum. My DS only knows a couple of kids that will be going into year 7 but knows the children currently at the secondary school as he's very sociable. My DD is the opposite, she's very shy and although she doesn't start for a couple of years, her best friends are from the same religion and will be going to that school, as their siblings/cousins are there. I know kids fall out and make new friends all the time, and that's not a reason to choose the school, but I like that the community is there for them, I didn't have that growing up.

The school has been In special measures for a couple of years, and has had a lot of government support. It will be turned into an academy next year. I don't know if that will make a difference. Also, all the parents I've spoken to (from all walks of life) speak highly of the school.

This is such a hard decision!

[capsium]

Do you know why the school is in special measures and how they are addressing the problem areas? Knowing this might help you decision.

Also you could ask the other school how they would support your DC for religious festivals, if there is less peer support.

[capsium]

Are there youth groups outside of school they could go for support and friendship?

[ILovedThe90s]

We live in a town, surrounded by lots of little villages, so there isn't a youth group. But I might mention to DH about trying to start one, that's a good idea.

The school is having termly ofsted inspections and it's heading in the right direction, but not enough yet to come out of special measures. It's been taken under by the nearest university for support and is getting extra funding. The GCSE results are just above national average, the other schools are way above the national average.

The other schools would be supportive of religious requirements, of course, as they would have to respect religious and cultural needs, but that's not what we were worrying about, it's more about peer support and friendships.

I keep thinking that I went to a crap school (and got bullied for my religious beliefs as I was the only one), but still managed to get good GCSEs, A levels and went to uni, because I had my parents help and support.

Arghh I've no idea what to do

[steppemum]

I had assumed from your OP that at least one of your kids was in year 6??

If that is the case, visit the schools and ask them directly

school 1 - Why was it in special measures? What were the issues identified by Ofsted, what are you doing to address it?
How will you ensure my kids get good results?
Schools can go into special measures for lots of reasons, it would help your decision to know why and to hear what they are doing.
Remember that the results will take 3-4 years to show significant change if the issue is teaching, because the kids need 2-3 years of good teaching to improve enough right across the board.

school 2 - how does your school support our faith and our kids as a minority?

Don't forget that the intake does influence results much as we like to think it doesn't. Does school 1 have a large intake from a difficult area/rough estate? If so, however good the teaching, the school will struggle to pull those kids' results up, but that doesn't mean that other kids (like yours) wouldn't get good results. But the overall may look poor.

[ILovedThe90s]

Sorry for the confusion Steppemum, I'm trying to be cryptic so I don't out myself! My DS is in year 6 and we want his sister to be going to the same school in a couple of years, so we are trying to consider both of them.

DH went to the open evening for the local school and I went on a tour during school time. We didn't ask the questions above, but have looked at the Ofsted reports and the GCSE results. I have spoken to a few parents whose children go there and they feel their children are doing well and speak highly of the school. Whether they would speak so highly of it if they had experience of another school, I don't know. On paper the school is awful, in person its not so bad and it should be much better when DS is in year 10 (according to the few years turnaround time!).

I spoke to the deputy headteacher from one of the other schools and asked him about religious support, and he said all the right things about respecting other people's faiths, etc etc.

Yes the local school does take children from a large traveller community and there are also some large council areas. The other schools take from more rural and perhaps wealthier areas.

[steppemum]

Gut feeling and atmosphere go a long way. We rejected a school with excellent results because we just didn't like it. If you liked it in person, that is probably a reflection of the new initiatives going on.

If the school is getting the right help, it may be a great place to be. I know one teacher who was head hunted into a failing school and after a few weeks she said it was actually lovely and she would be happy to send her dd there, despite the on paper results.

The Ofsted inspection should be available online and it should state where the areas of need are.

[knickernicker]

Go for a school with better final exam results. In my experience, the only children who fulfil their academic potential in lower achieving schools are those with an exceptional work ethic and self motivation.

[ILovedThe90s]

Steppemum and knickernicker, are you both teachers?

I keep thinking of the lengths some people go to, to send their kids to the best school in their area. And I'm thinking about community, I probably need my head examined.

[steppemum]

I am an ex teacher but at primary. I am also a governor. My eldest is at secondary and dd1 is year 6, so very current topic for me.

In the end for us, we really went for the school which we thought was the best fit for our dc.
ds is very clever, but very peer influenced. We knew that he had to be in a school where it was cool to be clever and there was some competition as to who would get the highest marks etc. Other wise he would go with the flow of what the other kids did.
On that basis we spent a lot of time and effort getting him into a grammar school, he has to travel to get there.
It was the best decision for him.

dd is very different, she is also very bright, but she would work hard even if no-one else around her does, but she is very quiet at school and can easily get overlooked. We knew she needed a school which was high on pastoral care/supporting their kids, where she wouldn't get lost in a crowd, and where she would make friends. We had a choice of traveling to the girl's grammar next door to ds school, or to another school which was a comp. We would have been happy with either in the end, as she would have been happy in either school, and if she is happy then I think she will do well.
She has just passed for the grammar so she will go there.

I am very concerned about results, I want my kids at a school where they will do well, but if they aren't happy there they then not only will they not do as well academically, but it will have a knock on effect on their confidence and life schools for after they leave school.

So in your situation, ds would have gone to school 2, and dd to school 1, based on their different personalities and needs.

Not much help I guess!

[knickernicker]

Yes I've taught for a long time in comprehensives, tough comprehensives and in the independent sector.
My DD is in year 5 and I'm thinking about Secondary. Several of her friends' parents felt a lovely vibe at the local school and have persuaded themselves that 'if your child is bright they'll do well anywhere.' I hear this a lot from people unfamiliar with schools.
This is not true, you can't get 10 A stars in a school where A's are not being aimed for unless you're an exceptional child. If your child is moderately bright, you send them to a school where A grades are expected and worked towards.

[steppemum]

that is very interesting knicker.
Our local school is crap, lots of parents from our lovely primary chose it because it is close, their friends are going there, and it was very nice on the open evening.

i wouldn't touch it with a barge pole, because its results are consistently crap.

I think the op has a very real concern over community though. My SIL was only black girl in her class and said she would never put her kids through that.

Add to possibility that the school is being turned round, then it is a hard choice.

I think I would have to be pretty confident that the school had been turned round, and that the results would begin to show that in the next year or two. If I was in any doubt that the school had changed, I don't think I would use it.