Believers VS Non-belivers

(490 Posts)

Why is it that if someone believes in something, they will talk about it as exactly that - something they believe in - and not portray it as absolute fact; yet if someone doesn't believe in something, they will say this as an absolute fact and ridicule those who believe?

It's almost as if those who don't believe (in whatever the subject: angels, God, reincarnation) consider themselves superior to those who do, and view those who do as stupid for doing so.

Surely everyone's beliefs are their own belief and opinion - nothing "woo" can be either proven or disproven, so therefore nobody is right or wrong.

It just seems that every thread that starts "Do you believe" on this board ends up in a bun fight with believes defending themselves against non-believers who tell them they're being ridiculous. The clue is in the title of the board - if you don't believe in anything that's likely to be discussed under that heading, just avoid the board!

DioneTheDiabolist Sun 15-Jun-14 00:03:50

Thank you for answering Head.

headinhands Sat 14-Jun-14 20:23:05

Dragging it back to the theist/atheist topic we covered earlier check out this screen grab from a christian teaching video. Spot the mistake? grin

headinhands Sat 14-Jun-14 18:03:49

Dione it's partly why, yes.

headinhands Sat 14-Jun-14 18:02:30

i would never be rude to someone

Me neither. What I would do though was point out glaring fallacies and contradictions if we were in a debating type conversation. In RL I don't though. My boss is very woo and I'll sit and nod along for hours. If you asked her she'd probably think I was into it too as I've done that good a job of being noncommittal. But here I don't need to nod along politely because then the discussion would merely be one person after another saying what woo they believed in with no discussion.

Hakluyt Sat 14-Jun-14 17:18:50

I would be grateful if somebody would explain the wisdom the man in the video found in God allowing the DV to continue. I did try to watch the video but fell asleep both times. blush I will try again.

AmazingMorning Sat 14-Jun-14 17:16:52

Although I don't believe in anything I would never be rude to someone who had different religious views to me. I expect it both ways though. Tolerance and all that...

CorusKate Sat 14-Jun-14 17:08:15

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DioneTheDiabolist Sat 14-Jun-14 17:07:57

Head, are you saying that you do not believe in god because you consider the Abrahamic god to be less moral than you?

headinhands Sat 14-Jun-14 17:03:26

should we be blamed as well

It seems like you agree that we should always stop DV where we can. But that man in the video said god didn't stop if for some wise reason. He said he now realised there was wisdom in god having not stopped it. If someone does stop DV that they could they have made a poor moral choice. Whereas it's actually okay and wise for god to not act sometimes? Have I explained the contradiction clearly?

headinhands Sat 14-Jun-14 16:13:28

*I was too young to see the wisdom in [god] allowing my mother to suffer the violence and abuse of my father"

Peaceful, can you say what that wisdom might be?

BigDorrit Sat 14-Jun-14 15:58:49

Where was this thread about creating weapons? You asked my opinion on something, I answered it, and you pretended I agreed with America invading places.

So, I asked you a question about your faith, which you haven't answered.

BigDorrit Sat 14-Jun-14 15:53:58

And you accuse us of twisting things?

Hypocrite!

peacefuloptimist Sat 14-Jun-14 15:49:38

I'd rather have the bigger weapons on my side, so there is some justification on those lines

Oh so your saying there is some wisdom behind creating nuclear, chemical and biological weapons like the spanish influenza virus. Oh well as long as they are there for your benefit and used against people who dont have the same weapons to use against you. The Vietnamese sure had it coming didnt they trying to build their big empire. Thank god those scientists made napalm to literally torture them to death hmm?

And a question about apostasy to boot. Was waiting for questions along that line. I wonder if you would have asked some of the earlier christian posters or atheists that question in this thread thats got nothing to do with that topic. Oh was it because of that comment I made a while ago about apos...wait I didnt make a comment about that did I? I think I better hide this thread and stick to my guns about leaving it before I get asked about terrorism next. The video summarises my views on suffering and the existence of God/purpose of life. Watch it if your interested, or dont bother. I dont really care either way, but dont misrepresent what it actually says to others especially if your going to guess at that after watching about 10 minutes of it.

headinhands Sat 14-Jun-14 15:33:32

god would want it to end

But the man said he now realised the wisdom in god letting the abuse continue. What do you suppose the wisdom was?

BigDorrit Sat 14-Jun-14 15:32:16

I don't agree that they should spend their time developing weapons, although obviously some of their discoveries will have destructive uses. However, when a person/country wants to force you to become a part of their empire I'd rather have the bigger weapons on my side, so there is some justification on those lines. No justification for making in order to be the aggressor though.

What do you think should be the punishment for apostasy?

headinhands Sat 14-Jun-14 15:31:32

atheist scientists who make terrible weapons

I would hope that god would be morally superior to me. I'm not maintaining that humans are perfect and wonderful but if I'm going to believe in a god I want him to be incredible. I don't want him to be able to watch children being punched and choose not to act out of some wisdom. That's not a god I'm going to get excited about. I know it's wrong because if a human said he was allowing abuse to occur because he had reason to think it was of benefit somehow I would think, at the very least, that he was a bit odd.

Again I'm not angry. Secondly I'm interested in how you justify and defend what that man said: That at least sometimes god allows children to be abused out of wisdom. What's happening the other times? Is it always wise to let abuse happen?

That man, by saying god was allowing it to happen obviously feels that god could stop it and does sometimes. What about when the abuser goes all the way and kills the partner and kids. What's happened there? Is that still part of the plan? You see, if he'd said ^we live in a fallen world and god can't intervene * then great although we would have gone on to miracles and healing etc but because he stipulated that god could stop it but doesn't and that there was sometimes wisdom in not stopping it, well now you're talking about a god whose watching suffering he can stop but doesn't. And that he deliberately doesn't act.

CorusKate Sat 14-Jun-14 15:26:55

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

peacefuloptimist Sat 14-Jun-14 15:25:19

Let me ask you BigDorrit, do you agree in scientists using their knowledge to build weapons of mass destruction that are used to kill innocent people. Do you think they should be tried for crimes against humanity for the evil they unleash on the earth.

peacefuloptimist Sat 14-Jun-14 15:22:11

I think the same as the guy in the video. Watch it to the end and you will see what he actually has to say not what you think he has to say.

How would god have felt if, while he was busy allowing it to happen for some wise reason that the mum up and left with he kids?

I can say with 100% certainty God would want it to end. God did do something to stop it. He created people like you and me to stop it.

On the authority of Abu Sa’eed al-Khudree (may Allah be pleased with him) who said: I heard the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) say, “Whosoever of you sees an evil, let him change it with his hand; and if he is not able to do so, then [let him change it] with his tongue; and if he is not able to do so, then with his heart — and that is the weakest of faith.” [Muslim]

We have the power to stop it too so should we be blamed as well for not stepping in and stopping it.

BigDorrit Sat 14-Jun-14 15:08:18

You've got it back to front. Humans created gods, and we have a problem with what they do whilst claiming it to be "in his name" or "according to his plan".

peacefuloptimist Sat 14-Jun-14 15:07:17

sorry meant hmm

peacefuloptimist Sat 14-Jun-14 15:06:59

Essentially it seems to me the biggest problem atheists have with God is that He created humans in the first place and that He gave them free will and intellect in the first place. I wonder if you get as angry at atheist scientists who make terrible weapons for example recently read somewhere that some scientists recently recreated the deadly spanish flu virus. How do you justify the use of science for that? Science and scientists must be completely evil then right because they use it to make weapons of mass destruction and sit by a watch whilst their creations are used to kill innocent people. grin

BigDorrit Sat 14-Jun-14 15:06:16

"you are angry at a god"

No, but I'm angry at what some people do, or, indeed, let happen, in the name of one...

headinhands Sat 14-Jun-14 15:05:45

encouraged people to go

That would make sense if he saw no wisdom in DV. He felt god allowed it to continue for some wise reason. How is he to know that god isn't allowing some of the people in the congregation to be abused for some wise reason? How would god have felt if, while he was busy allowing it to happen for some wise reason that the mum up and left with he kids?

headinhands Sat 14-Jun-14 15:01:12

you are angry at a god

I'm not angry. I'm curious in what you think and how you justify it.

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