Welcome to muslim tea room 2.

(977 Posts)
defuse Mon 30-Dec-13 22:18:47

Peace to you all smile

Ok, well here it is again...we have moved to room 2 now grin

Discuss whatever aspect of islam you like my lovely sisters - this is a place for muslims and non-muslims too, to share experiences, raising kids or just having your say! smile

The kettle is on.... We have loads of herbal teas, coffee and guava juice .... I like guava juice grin so welcome! smile

brew

crescentmoon Sun 24-Aug-14 21:20:25

so if its so bad that you cant speak easily with each other, practical ways would be things like gift giving

based on the hadith “Shake hands with one another and hatred will vanish, exchange gifts and you will love one another and rancor will be known no more.”
(Muwatta’ of Imam Malik 2:908)

or even basic khidmah/ service, around the house you all share. so that they can see islam made you a better person. it might not be the big news topics out there, sometimes what people like the one who argued with you fears is that once their family member becomes muslim they will cut them out of their new lives,or turn into a recluse, only mix with other muslims not family, etc. you need to show the opposite, that you are more keen to maintain and uphold silat ur rahm (ties of kinship) based on that alone whatever their spiritual state. thats what is shown from the stories of the early muslims with their pagan parents and relatives.
obviously your mother has a different status to second cousins twice removed, they cant all be the same level, i dont know who the person you are having trouble with is, but try, even though its scary, to put yourself out there and make the overtures to that person.
do small practical things around the house unobtrusively but making life more pleasant and easier for those you live with even if you cant for whatever reason all sit together and talk. wash up even if its not your turn, cook/bake food for them, take out the rubbish before others have to, small simple quiet things that dont need much talking over just doing. you might find in two years you dont even want to move out, that things might have improved so much between you all!

crescentmoon Sun 24-Aug-14 21:01:14

salams dear sisters, how is the bank holiday weekend going?

fuzzy, the last paragraph in your last post had me pondering and reconsidering assumptions and positions all week.

quietly, those words shook me and really humbled me. everytime i started a reply to you to ask "what if you dont have the time and money to work to all their strengths and choices? what if you only have enough resources to try to pull the academically weakest up to the others?'. everytime i was going to ask you that, i stopped to think if it really was that in my case, or was it just my own way of prioritising. i thought to myself could i not try harder and expend more time and energy? iv been changing plans and things all week fuzzy, some of them alot more costly than id initially set, just on that last sentence you put.

sis tiptop i really feel for you and i cant add much more to what sis elusive and others have said. (i really liked that dua sis elusive had put. iv been quietly reading it to myself all week as well.) theres a book i read years ago you might find useful called Daughters of Another path, about the sometimes fraught relationships between convert women and their mothers about their new faith and religion. full pdf here. it would be a good gift for your family members in helping them understand and find common ground with you from the experiences of other converts and families.

as for you situation right now living with them and they're being so hostile. i really agreed with elusive advice saying to keep being kind to them. its so very hard but theyre your kin/relatives - Islam gives them a high station whether muslim or non muslim. you might wish to keep away in your room or not speak to them or 'why would i help them when they treat me so badly'. but really, responding to unkind words and behaviour with calmness and good manners is what will help that person's heart reconcile to you and your life decisions inshaallah.

just for general advice with enemies, frenemies and the like:

""And not equal are the good deed and the bad. Repel [evil] by that [deed] which is better; and thereupon the one whom between you and him is enmity [will become] as though he was a devoted friend.""
(Quran 41:34).
iv tried this with certain people, it really works. not friends yet, but much better than before.

if that person who said that unkind stuff to you was a parent, then even though they hate your being muslim the Quran says:

""...if they endeavor to make you associate with Me that of which you have no knowledge, do not obey them ^but accompany them in [this] world with kindness...^""
(Quran 31:14-15) even if they try to turn you off from it or make you go another way, still keep company and treat them with kindness.

a couple of hadith too:

A man said to the muhammad (pbuh), “I have relatives with whom I try to keep in touch, but they cut me off. I treat them well, but they abuse me. I am patient and kind towards them, but they insult me.” The Prophet (pbuh) said, “If you are as you say, then it is as if you are putting hot dust in their mouths. Allah will continue to support you as long as you continue to do that.” [Sahih Muslim]

of course the human thing with relatives who are so difficult is to go non contact with them, or stop trying. but the prophet pbuh was saying in this hadith that all the reward goes on the person who perseveres in spite of being constantly pushed back by such kin, and Allah will keep on helping you with that. what they do with your kindness to them is between them and Allah and they will be accounted for that (they put hot dust in their own mouths), but you do your part and leave the rest to Him.

and if you cant manage all that then the minimum is not to retaliate, based on another hadith i read recently that im trying to actively implement properly:

Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "Do not be people without minds of your own, saying that if others treat you well you will treat them well, and that if they do wrong you will do wrong. Instead, accustom yourselves to do good if people do good and not to do wrong if they do evil."
- Al-Tirmidhi, Hadith 1325

life is so hard, but keep posting and let us have each other's company here inshaallah. xx

Tiptops Sat 23-Aug-14 22:09:51

greeneggs No, unfortunately I recently moved to a very rural place, three and a half hours away from where I lived before. I used to have plenty of Muslim friends around me so I should look to build up that support network again. There are other issues making it hard to build friendships here ( I am currently mostly housebound ) but am receiving help for this so hopefully I will be out in the community more in time. My new home isn't at all multicultural or diverse unfortunately, but I'm hopeful there will be good opportunities to meet other Muslims in the nearest city. The trigger for the comment was me saying Alhamdulillah for completing my degree. Apparently the 'Muslim word' was offensive to the person concerned confused

Elusive Thank you for your lovely message flowers . You are of course right about responding with kindness. I do get defensive and frustrated about any criticism of Islam whether in relation to me personally or not. Probably because it is always founded in ignorance or xenophobia, but I do need to take a step back and change my approach. I will continue to make dua and thank you for the words to use in times of distress, I have written them down in my diary and will use them for support Inshallah.

Ipity No, I haven't heard of that group before and will head off to have a google now, thank you. It sounds like a great idea, fingers crossed there will be one I can get in touch with.

Thank you ladies for all your words of support, it's so helpful and encouraging. Mashallah we have such an amazing support network through Allah, even between people we haven't met.

IPityThePontipines Sat 23-Aug-14 02:36:40

Tiptops - have you heard of the New Muslim Project? They are very supportive and may have a group in your area.

It is hard, time will ease things, but definitely finding people you can "be Muslim" with will help.

Make time to do.whatever makes you feel close to Allah, a nice walk, reading Islamic books, going to the mosque, appreciating nature, etc, as that nearness will help make it all feel worthwhile, insha Allah.

Elusive Thu 21-Aug-14 01:26:35

Salaam tiptops just saw your post now. Welcome to the Muslim Tea Room and more importantly, welcome to the muslim community! flowers I think you are amazing! I really am awed by every new muslim mashallah.

It must be very difficult living as a muslim in a house where you don't have everyone's full support. Speaking of support, do you have any support system outside of your home? Muslim friends perhaps? are you in touch with any New Muslim support groups at all?

New muslims are faced with so many challenges. The way you deal with those who challenge you, will prove your sincerity and commitment to Islam and the best way to deal with your relative is through kindness. Don't let the relative get to you, continue on your journey towards Allah.
Allah almighty says 'take one step towards Me and I will take ten steps towards you'.

Remember to make lots of dua for strength and perseverance, dua is your secret weapon.

Here is a dua with translation recommended by our prophet Muhammed (pbuh) to read in times of distress or anxiety:

Allaahumma inni ‘abduka ibn ‘abdika ibn amatija naasyati bi yadika, maada fiyya hukmuka, ‘adlun fiyya qadaa’uka. As’aluka bi kulli ismin huwa laka sammayta bihi nafsaka aw anzaltahu fi kitaabika aw ‘allamtahu ahadan min khalqika aw ista’tharta bihi fi ‘ilm il-ghayb ‘indaka an taj’al al-Qur’aana rabee’ qalbi wa noor sadri wa jalaa’ huzni wa dhihaab hammi

“O Allah, I am Your servant, son of Your servant, son of Your maidservant, my forelock is in Your hand, Your command over me is forever executed and Your decree over me is just. I ask You by every name belonging to You, which You named Yourself with, or revealed in Your Book, or You taught to any of Your creation, or You have preserved in the knowledge of the unseen with You, that You make the Noble Qur’an the life of my heart; the light of my face; a departure for my sorrow and a release for my anxiety.

Please don't feel disheartened by what your relative said. Keep making dua and be kind to the relative. Allah will help you.

Please keep posting if you need any advice or info, this thread is a little slow sometimes but the sisters will help in any way they can Inshallah.

greeneggsandjam Wed 20-Aug-14 08:27:56

Well Tiptops I suppose it is tricky when you are still living with them. The person who said you aren't Muslims is angry that you have chosen a 'different, strange and foreign' way of life. Maybe they will change their mind and maybe they never will. You just have to do your thing and not get into battles with them. You can counteract any argument they throw at you but it probably wont make much difference as they wont be listening properly anyway.

I guess you just have to do things quietly and wait until you can move somewhere else or until they change their opinions. Do you have many Muslims friends around that you can spent time with? What was it that made them say you aren't Muslim?

Tiptops Tue 19-Aug-14 14:35:57

Salaam all,

Greeneggs I converted officially about 18 months ago, but it was and still is a process, I would say I had been making changes towards an Islamic lifestyle for about another 18 months before that. I live in the family home, two relatives who live here are open minded and becoming more understanding with time, the one I mentioned in my first post is very against my conversion. I'm hoping to be able to move in to my own home within the next couple of years, it's just so difficult in the meantime.

Fuzzy Thank you so much for your kind words. I will definitely try the silence approach, my instinct is to always correct ignorant/ untrue claims but the conflict only ends up upsetting me. Leaving it in Allah's hands is most definitely a better approach. Thank you again flowers

fuzzywuzzy Tue 19-Aug-14 10:23:27

Assalamualaikum,

Sis Tiptop, my only suggestion with regards your family is to maintain a dignified silence, let them say what they want, but don't let them drag you down. They can say what they want doesn't make it true. I'd withdraw form the person who said that about your faith, your Iman is between you and your creator.

The only thing you can do is reply to their anger with kindness, and leave it in Allah's hands, you're not doing this for anyone sake but for the love of Allah.

Update on the friend, I leant the guy my copy of the complete idiots guide to understanding Islam by Yahya Emerick, it's strange I even had the book, I bought it years ago and never read it, altho I read everything, he seems serious and has been reading thro the book.
Friends parents are not an issue, she's not worried about that Alhumdulillah.

Jazakallah Khayr for the advice, I think if this man is serious and decides for himself he does accept the creed of Islam then really that's all they both need, he has a lifetime to learn how to practice and they can both make it their joint journey to learn more. At least they will have common ground in the most important part of their lives.

Sis Crescent, with regards children, I aim to school my children according to their own abilities, so far my girls are both very academic altho one is by far more creative and the other very bookish. We shall see. They both have my support and I will try and help them work to their strengths and support their choices inshallah.

Remember the ummah in your duas.

greeneggsandjam Tue 19-Aug-14 09:14:50

Salam all. Crescent, I didn't quite understand what you are asking when you say equal time and resources or ability to live independently. It was the first part about equal time and resources... what do you mean?

Tiptops how long have you been Muslim? Do you live near your family?

Tiptops Tue 19-Aug-14 00:32:53

Salaam ladies,

I hope it is alright for me to post asking for some advice here, this is my first post in the thread. I would really appreciate some advice and guidance in relation to non-Muslim family disapproval. I converted to Islam some time ago, but am still facing quite a backlash about my choice to become Muslim. I had a particularly upsetting incident today where a family member declared I was not Muslim. No matter how untrue I know that to be, I can't help feeling so upset that my 'new identity' is being rejected. I'm normally able to deal with this quite well but feel particularly affected today and have been tearful ever since blush

Any experience or just wise words would be very helpful thanks

Elusive Mon 18-Aug-14 21:37:14

Salaam all.

pontipines so sorry to hear about your FIL. May Allah grant him jannah.ameen.

Peaceful, you are right, it is the ordinary people trying to raise funds for the Syrians. Here, the fundraisers tend to be on a monthly basis at the moment - the need is so great. sad

Crescent, i would equip them for an independent life but ensure there isnt too much of a discrepancy wrt who gets allocated which resources.sorry, i know thats not very helpful! grin

crescentmoon Mon 18-Aug-14 21:35:56

and by living independently i mean as in being able to get a halal job and earn a halal income and not be susceptible to haram means of getting money. or requiring others to earn for them. (inshaallah).

crescentmoon Mon 18-Aug-14 21:20:40

sorry for not joining in the thread today ipity and optimist, im trying to spend most of my time getting dc ready for september.
heres a question late in the day on this thread. to be equal with your children which is more important: equality of opportunity or equality of outcome? before motherhood it was black and white but now seeing the quite different academic abilities between my three im focusing on them all ending up the same, and i hope when they grow up they see it like that. but what would you think is more important? equal time and resources from day one or making sure they can all live as independently as possible in the future?

crescentmoon Mon 18-Aug-14 17:16:46

so sorry to hear about your FIL ipity, Inna Lillahi wa inna ilaihi raji'un, ‘Truly, we belong to Allah and verily, unto Him shall we return." (2:156). im so sorry that your father in law didnt get to see a free Syria. hopefully if not you then your children will see it inshaallah.

peacefuloptimist Mon 18-Aug-14 11:14:38

Wsalam sis

So sorry to hear about your FIL.

Inna lillah wa inna ilaihi rajiun.

May Allah SWT bestow His Mercy and Forgiveness on your FIL and enter him into jannah. Ameen.

I hope you and your in laws are getting the support you need in this difficult time. I will make dua for you all. What can we say about Syria it's a never ending tragedy which seems to be totally ignored at the moment sad I was at a fundraiser for Syria recently and I just felt so angry that ordinary people are having to step in to do the work of states. It should be governments providing humanitarian aid to the Syria refugees. I read the other day the Egyptians are providing military aid to the Assad regime. They are all ad disgusting as each other.

IPityThePontipines Mon 18-Aug-14 02:31:40

Salaam everyone, sorry I've not been around for ages (I used to be GAG).

Belated Eid Mubarak to you all, I hope you are all well, insha Allah.

It's been a week since my FiL died, May Allah grant him peace. I think of the last ayah of Surah Luqman, where it says "No one knows the country in which they will die", my FiL loved his homeland of Syria so much, but now he will be parted from it forever. sad

peacefuloptimist Sun 17-Aug-14 01:40:00

I'm giggling like crazy after listening to that clip of the Jewish mother and father. He's not kosher! Can just imagine a Muslim parent saying the Islamic equivalent.

crescentmoon Sat 16-Aug-14 22:23:45

seriously, theres a few aunties and uncles i grew up with that would have reacted so even at a muslim from another culture marrying their daughter! inshaallah fuzzys friend's family take it easy and in their stride! if not that then that the guy is as easygoing as Ian Miller in My Big Fat Greek Wedding when Toula's father talks to him the night before his conversion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVpOcPU8KeA

"it is your lucky day.. to be baptised... in the Greek Orthodox Church".... lol, one of the funniest scenes in the movie. funny how different cultures but similar issues with elders. another film about similiarities is Arranged, about a muslim girl and an orthodox jewish girl becoming friends and sharing the experiences of the lead up to their arranged marriage - the guys that turn out duds! - together. trailer here.

greeneggsandjam Sat 16-Aug-14 21:55:26

Wooow... and they say Muslims are crazy!

crescentmoon Sat 16-Aug-14 21:27:58

its just about hikmah/wisdom really. i so hope it works out inshaallah for your friend fuzzy, where theres a will theres a way .before i met my friend who is very practising married to an atheist (she converted after marriage and whilst her husband didnt believe he accepted), i never in a million years would have believed that a sister married to someone that ambivalent about religion could work. at least your friend's potential wants to take the shahadah! but they have a happy respectful marriage and honestly theres things in their relationship id love to model in my own marriage too! the older i get the more i value akhlaq over many things including religioisity. some muslims have atrocious akhlaq even with the marks on their foreheads showing they do alot of prostrations. (street angels/house devils). and some non muslims have the best akhlaq. dunya is very complicated.

just a humourous take on mixed faith marriages. i heard this years ago and found it again today and still laughed so much. its a jewish girl pranking her parents about a non jewish guy she is seeing and their reactions are just hilarious for how familiar they sound. the mother especially, though as much as she talks of topping herself at least she doesnt say 'your dead to me' as my mother some people would say wink. i think a muslim dad would have gone even more insane than the dad in the clip did if the bloke at the end had started talking like that to him!

peacefuloptimist Sat 16-Aug-14 12:54:04

Oh Abdullah Hakim Quick is also a good one to listen to. I find all three very easy to relate to.

peacefuloptimist Sat 16-Aug-14 12:16:10

Thanks for replies squishing and crescent. I think I might start a thread in chat about vbacs. It's interesting hearing others perspectives on fuzzy friend's dilemma. I wonder if non Muslim women who have relationships with Muslim men have similar problems adjusting? There have been quite a few non Muslim mumsnetters who have posted on the tearoom who are in or were in a relationship with a Muslim man. I wonder if anyone could come back and give their perspectives. The thing that has impressed me the most is how much effort they make to make sure their children are in touch with their Muslim heritage like ehric who I think went above and beyond the call of duty so to speak. Do you think it's easier for women to make these adjustments rather then men or is it that non Muslim men are often not given the chance. I agree with you squishing that in both cases for Muslim men and Muslim women these sorts of mixed marriages work out better if they are not really practicing to start off with or if the person truly accepts Islam because they believe rather than for that person.

Also for the revert sisters who are married/were married to Muslim men did you convert before or after meeting your husbands. Was it difficult for you to adjust to lifestyle changes or did you find it easy? Also were your husbands initially not practicing or practicing before they meet you? I know of many cases where it is actually the revert sister who gets her husband to take more interest in the religion or who has more knowledge of the religion despite him being born in to a Muslim family.

Fuzzy in your friends case I would still advise that she give him time. Let her suggest books and talks that he can listen to. Give him a couple of months before she decides whether he is serious or not. Even if he doesn't become fully practicing straight away which she shouldn't expect she should be able to tell if he is generally interested in the deen by the amount of effort he puts in. I would recommend hamza yusufs earlier talks (his current stuff is too airy fairy for me), suhaib webbs and nouman Ali khans talks. Try to find out like green eggs said what he is interested in particularly and also what he questions and maybe refer him to talks, short books etc about it from an Islamic perspective.

squishinglittlefatcheeks Sat 16-Aug-14 09:18:20

Sorry that's meant to read '...or if he converts for the love of the religion not her'

squishinglittlefatcheeks Sat 16-Aug-14 09:13:21

peaceful I wish you a safe health pregnancy and delivery inshallah. I remember reading on MN ages ago about VBAC and loads of women posted saying they had natural delivery after CS. I think preg/labour is really individual and no one except you and your medical team know what you want or need. Try to post on the chat section u will get more traffic and may help you. Also ask to be ref to and Obs doc for an opinion as they may differ from the midwifes opinion. Good luck and make lots of duas

fuzzy I watched 2 friends - one very close and the other more of an acquaintance - go through this. One married him and one left him and decided she wanted someone who was already muslim. I think in both their cases the overriding factor was that the men in question didnt really have an islamic way of life and the one who converted did so for marriage. Unfortunately they are divorced. The main thing is that islam is an entire way of life. We sometimes don't realise how much of our lives are islamically driven but to someone who isn't used to it it is overwhelming if they do not have that spiritual connection to God. It is not just no drinking or gambling or pork. It's all the everyday things like washing before praying and after going to the loo, not wearing your shoes around the house, adjusting the way you dress (not necessarily hijab etc but eg not skimpy on a beach), not going to pubs and clubs, not making friends with the opposite sex, not 'harmlessly' flirting at a party, respect for parents...
It really depends - can she live with her husband possibly doing all of the above? He may well believe in Allah SWT abd the Prophet PBUH and that may be enough for her. My friend who didn't get married decided it wasn't enough for her and she couldn't take the strain of making someone change so many aspects of their life just for her as after the initial honeymoon phase it would cause issues (this was despite him already not drinking or gambling). The other friend thought it would be fine but unfortunately it did cause too much strain in the marriage. My conclusion is it can work really well IF the sister is not hugely practicing herself or if her converts for the love of the religion itself not her.

crescentmoon Fri 15-Aug-14 11:38:51

i hope that it was ok to say greeneggs. there are very successful converts from many different backgrounds and i share the general heritage muslim admiration of how they come to the deen and the obstacles they overcome externally and internally.

peaceful did the midwife generally try to encourage you to go for a vbac or book in for a c section?

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