ZOMBIE THREAD ALERT: This thread hasn't been posted on for a while.
What would Christmas mean to you if you didn t have your faith?(77 Posts)
Just that really.
I was pondering what I love most about Christmas.
Having fun talking, sharing meals and playing games with family and friends of course, but the highlight is always our candlelit carol service and my faith in God.
Take any of those away and I really don t think I would enjoy it at all..
So do you go to church on Christmas Day then and ignore the feasting and present giving bit?
I've just taken my tree down, 12th Night and all, and the house does look very bare.
I use to celebrate christmas many years ago, and I understand why people love the warmth and glow of it all, but since learning that xmas was celebrated before Christs birth and that it is a pagan festival adopted by the church to entice the pagans, I no longer celebrate it. When I see the greed, dept and and loneliness associated with it, yet I understand how it brings a moment of happiness in the cold of winter.
Couldn t agree more Errol about the giving.
Someone - can t remember who! - said that true happiness lies in giving without expecting anything in return. And it doesn t have to be expensive- just something to bring a smile to someone's face.
At Christmas the children at our church bring gifts they have chosen to send to those children who have nothing. My dcs did that when they were little and continue to do it now they are adults!
time off work without having to grovel for it!
I came to give an answer much like headinhands. I think it means more to me now because I have a child - whoever said its better to give than to receive had that bang on!
Peace on Earth, goodwill to all humankind.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
Just managed to get back on to the thread -manic time of year at work for me!
HavantGuard - I love hearing about how atheists spend Christmas too. The only reason I said about the thread maybe only being for Christians was because at that point I was coming under attack which I really wanted to stop. But lots of other atheists, including yourself, have posted some really lovely things they find special at Christmas. You're right, Christmas is a much needed light in the middle of winter.
I know many non believers also come to our church over Christmas as they enjoy the singing, candles etc. There is a real sense of community.
Gingerdodger - I agree about the added dimension. I feel a huge sense of warmth(despite the weather!) and peace at this time of year.
Christmas is a magical time.
Foremost I love the company and love of those around me.
I love the expectation, the frivolity, all the wonderful traditions that have woven the magical fabric from eons before that surrounds us at this time of year.
The Norse traditions of Santa, the Pagan, Greek Roman and Celtic mythology that has given us flying reindeer, stockings to be filled, christmas trees, Yule logs, Holly, Ivy and Mistletoe. I love the preserved fruits and wines that we use, the oriental spices that we have come to know and associate with christmas.
I love the majesty of the spheres, the fact that for a moment in time the earth which weigh 6,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000,000 Kg stops tilting. I love the amazing mathematical explanations that allow us to use calculus to predict day length. I love to the idea of the geometrists and geomancers of old who were able to grasp these concepts.
I love the idea of the return of our 4.6 billion year old sun returning the day after midwinter giving us new hope in our depths of winter- a sign that warmth and light and growth will again return.
Christmas has many profound and special meanings for me.
I think Christmas without faith would be a lovely time for feasting and family, for hopefully, spreading a bit of joy and peace and thinking about others.
Christmas with faith is all of the above but with an added dimension. The story of the nativity is bleak in many ways, a child born in poverty and under dictatorial regimes in dangerous times, this gives me a sense of the enormous love of God. It is also a story of hope and the aspiration of peace to the world born of that same child. It makes me think and reflect on God's love and gives me renewed strength of faith.
Technodad - Free speech does not apply to internet forums. Talk guidelines clearly state that posts which break guidelines get deleted. That isn't censorship. HTH.
TD if you're leaving this thread you won't see this, but I'm going to say it anyway.
You are the perverse one, because you have perverted everything the OP and all those who have tried to explain to you have said.
At no point has any Christian said they don't enjoy spending a day with their beloved family. YOU are the only one who has said that -- again and again, in the face of everyone who's tried to correct you. That is a perversion of the facts and of the truth.
I don't know if Katemumsnet is a Christian or not, but mumsnet do have a policy of deleting posts that contravene their rules -- and it's their site. Break the rules, take the consequences. That's not Christians imposing censorship.
Why can't one argue that someone is slightly perverse for not enjoying spending a day with their moated loved family? Especially on a thread when the title seemed to request a point of view?
Don't worry, we shall just add censorship to the list of other controls that religion exercises on our daily lives (schools, monarchy, House of Lords, cover-ups, wars, etc).
I shan't post in this thread again. Laters!
I'm an atheist who used to be a church going Christian so can give you a clear answer to what Christmas is like without a belief in god for me and it's actually okay op I still sing carols and spend time with family, the only difference is that I don't believe that the nativity happened but it's still a story that I can enjoy as I do any story that takes me back to my childhood.
Thank you to those who brought this thread to our attention.
Obviously atheists and agnostics are absolutely free to post about their belief (or lack of it) but we think it's not really on to come on to a thread like this and appear to sneer at people's strongly-held beliefs, or call them 'sick' or 'sanctimonious'.
Reasoned argument is absolutely fine, but name-calling isn't really on - so we've deleted some posts.
Merry Christmas everyone
I don't have a problem with people believing anything. It is completly up to them
I think it is a shame that people are scared that a family member will die whenever they see a shooting star and I know that there are rational justifications for things that happen in the world. I also feel strongly that other peoples religions should not have a right over the wishes of others.
Anyway, since I have the tendency to respond to questions on this forum with my opinion (you know, sentences with a question mark at the end of them, like in grammar), you had probably not ask me more questions on this thread. Doing so will only derail the thread further from that intended (rather un-clearly) by the OP. I suggest you start a new thread and ask me there (which I will reply to when I get home from work).
Unlike others, I try to not avoid answering questions I don't like the sound of.
Looking at your link technodad, it seems you have a problem with anyone believing in anything.
Why is that?
Sorry for answering, as the question is addressed only to Christians, so doesn't actually apply to me.
I am an atheist. For me what we call Christmas is the (much needed!) winter festival of light. It existed before Christianity was invented. We eat lovely food (put away and preserved from the harvest) and light candles and spend time with the people we love in celebration that we've passed the mid point of winter and we're all still here. Next stop spring!
Actually, Technodad, it's not the Christians on here who give Muslims a hard time, it's the atheists.
This was a perfectly light hearted pondering thread and instead of saying "I don't understand why you feel that way OP because..."
You instead called the OP "sick", a term usually used for perverts or abusers.
As for me, I am sick - in the nauseous sense, sick to the back teeth that no one can discuss their faith, even in a section dedicated to it, without some miserable atheist picking a fight and throwing insults.
Thread after thread gets derailed. Even people starting a thread to look for a church will be derailed by some demanding busy body wanting to know why they are religious.
I do not know what you hope to achieve, but it's not just me who finds it extremely tiresome.
Which begs the question of why the thread was started in the first place.
Back to that dark room of yours for a lie down!
Hold on Guns
It is you trying to control who can post and what can be posted, not me.
That wasn't so much to you merci you type everything in lowercase, whatevs.
Up thread there were posters not using capitals, specifically for the name, which is a bit yawn.
technodad There is nothing begging the question! its not for you to decide what people can or cannot post here, it is a public forum and OP has not broken any rules. People post for the most trivial of reasons, some are simple musings, some very serious matters needing guidance, some just for a laugh, some simply because they are bored and are you actually justifying your vitriol spill by saying Christians do it to Muslims ???? that's your defence ?? why don't we all go and hurl abuse at random xtians then because some Christians somewhere did it to Muslims. You should be ashamed of yourself!
msmiggins I'm sorry you are shifting your stance here.- people are simply responding to your original post.
OP hasn't changed her stance, you just need to get your head out of the gutter! as far as 'people' are concerned the thread was going quite well sharing what xmas meant to them, only you and technodad have said horrible things to the OP.
yeah, helpyourself, and after all jesus' messages about the importance of punctuation, too
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