Need to find a church, gay friendly, Watford.

(37 Posts)
MrsGumboots Thu 17-Oct-13 14:46:30

My faith is very important to me, and also to my new partner. Who happens to be a woman too shock. We are no longer welcome at the church we went to hmm, and where we met. But we are finding it hard to find a church. We would prefer a church in Watford, but are happy to travel a little. Trying one this sunday it sounds like its mostly old people....... anyone help? sad

Coupon Sat 19-Oct-13 00:11:48

> I think it is, I think you'd be deluded to think it isn't. Maybe I'm wrong.....Christianity start with gay marriage and only recently allowed hetero marriage. Sorry ...... I was supposed to write that on the 'anyone no where there is a straight friendly church' thread.

You're confusing Christianity with certain church organisations Yougotbale. Many Christians, within the church or not, have no problem whatsoever with homosexuality.

Yougotbale Sat 19-Oct-13 00:29:09

Do these churches follow a judeo-Christian philosophy? Are you saying that's these churches are wrong in being homophobic? Which church do you belong to and are they homophobic?

I know Christians that don't believe in the concept of heaven and hell. So everyone can choose.

So you wouldn't come up on a census as Christian? It's more to do with churches then right? Who are the real Christians? The homophobes or the pro gay Christians?

Coupon Sat 19-Oct-13 01:30:31

Yougotbale my view is that homophobia isn't compatible with the teachings of Jesus to love our neighbour and not judge others. Fundamentalists take the Bible literally word-for-word including obscure comments in Leviticus. Liberal Christians such as myself tend to follow "scripture, reason and tradition", so not just scripture out of context.

Who is a "real" Christian? Anyone who has genuinely given their life to Christ and follows him. This obviously includes people who disagree about certain things, because no-one is perfect and of course we get things wrong. I don't get hung up on judging whether other Christians are "real", I leave that to the fundamentalists. If any of us are going to have humility as a Christian we have to accept we don't have all the answers.

Yougotbale Sat 19-Oct-13 01:58:52

Coupon - would you rather get rid of the comments in Leviticus?
Do you think god will ultimately bring judgement upon the homophobic churches, in your opinion?
Does your religion frustrate you that you are only as good as your weakest link?
Finally, do you think that homophobic/sexist/anti other religions(sorry can't think of the word)/racist, etc churches should still be allowed to practice, in your opinion?

BelfastBloke Sat 19-Oct-13 02:30:29

Have you heard of the pro-gay NALT Christians project? The videos on there should help clarify to posters such as Yougotbale that while s/he might enjoy dismissing the whole of Christianity by parroting the rhetoric of fundamentalists, Christianity is, at the very least, multifaceted.

About the NALT Christians Project
The purpose of The NALT Christians Project is to give any and all LGBT-affirming Christians a means of sharing their belief that there is nothing anti-biblical or sinful about being gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgender.

How does it work? You make a YouTube video saying that you are both Christian and fully affirming of LGBT-people; you upload your video onto your (free and easily obtainable) YouTube channel; via the Submit form on the NALT Christians website you inform the NALT gang that your video is ready to go; soon thereafter your video is added to the chorus of other videos on the NALT Christians website that are helping to change the world.

Why should I make a NALT Christians video?

To refute the widespread belief that Christianity is synonymous with anti-gay bigotry.*
To counteract the destructive effects on all young people of the message that God condemns and rejects LGBT people.
To support and encourage other LGBT-affirming Christians.

Coupon Sat 19-Oct-13 08:58:49

Yougotbale there has been a good deal of theological debate about Leviticus. The verses about men not lying with men are actually part of the "Holiness Code" which is a ritual for Israel's priests. Sex between men was used to demonstrate dominance of one group of men over another, particularly in times of war. These verses have nothing to do with loving relationships between people of the same gender - unless you're a fundamentalist who takes them out of context!

The "abomination" mentioned in Leviticus is unlikely to be referring to gay sex between loving partners. The original word is "toevah" which is usually associated with idolatry and so the passage is probably about the Canaanite religious practice of cult prostitution.

My religion doesn't frustrate me, as it is a personal relationship with God through Jesus, it's not defined by other people or organisations. But yes of course I find it frustrating when I see unfair discrimination in churches. I don't think God is going to judge organisations, he is concerned with what is in the heart of the individual.

I believe in freedom of speech and freedom of religion, so yes I think churches/religions that I strongly disagree with should still be allowed to practice. However, I don't think it's right that the Church of England, which is meant to be equally available to everyone, should be able to discriminate. I think they should either include everyone properly, or lose the right to be the state church.

How about you, do you think religious people should take their historical books literally word for word, or read them in context and interpret them as best they can? Do you think religious groups should only exist if everyone in them agrees on everything? Do you think open-minded religious people should give up on meeting with others of similar views, and let the bigots take over all the organised groups?

Coupon Sat 19-Oct-13 08:59:14

Great post and link BelfastBloke smile

Yougotbale Sat 19-Oct-13 11:27:05

Coupon - I suppose. The books are open to interpretation. If they can be interpreted as homophobic then they probably are. It's interesting that when society was homophobic, the books were interpreted to reinforce homophobia. I don't remember the church standing up to society. It's also interesting that the church has taken longer to lose homophobia than society. For a supposedly non homophobic organisation that interests me.

I think the guys that wrote the bible put it in for a reason. But there isn't anyway of knowing if any of stories in the bible happened or are true. If the bible actually means what it is perceived as meaning. You may get hell or heaven and find out its interpretation is all wrong. It isn't possible to say whether God is apalled by its interpretation and will judge all Christians with hell on death.
So in my opinion, you have as much ability to rewrite, change, interpret it how you like.
I don't mind what you do with the book, but I do mind discrimination be it sexism, homophobia, peadophilia, etc.....the churches, leaders, followers seem happy to brush this stuff off. They are so scared of their own religion, to make a stand, or question.

Yougotbale Sat 19-Oct-13 11:35:19

It's also interesting that religions start off as fundamental. They don't start out as moderate. They become moderate when people see how wacky the religion is in fundermental form. Also they get more moderate as society becomes more secular. I think that moderates probably obscure the religion from being question for what it is.

MaryBS Mon 21-Oct-13 16:06:55

It may be worth asking on the website Ship of Fools, if you know it. This forum is probably the best one to ask your question:
forum.ship-of-fools.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum;f=4

MrsGumboots did you find a church?

This may help but you may need to go into London for one on here as I have already looked, but it is probably updated sometimes.

www.gaychurch.org/list-churches-by-country/

I would be surprised if Soul Survivor Watford was Gay-friendly. But whatever the views of some members of the church there will be other members who will be accepting and loving etc.

Have you visited these websites at all...

www.acceptingevangelicals.org/

www.titipu.demon.co.uk/samesexunions/gayfaithorgs.htm

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