More and more thoughts of demons(28 Posts)
I know some will suggest I post on mental health section, but I want some wider perspectives. I do go to a Pentecostal church but am not a very good example of a Christian and have done plenty that I regret. I have tried talking to god and a couple of others at church, but I feel like I can't let go of the feeling that I am bad, cannot be forgiven. In the last three days, my moods have been more erratic and I keep getting flashes of a thought of a demons face...a bit like in Donne Draco. For a few months I have not been able to shake the feeling that I am not worthy of god and will go to hell. My indiscretions are all tied up in the context of some recent unhappy times, but looking back I wish I had conducted myself with more grace and patience. Other people think I am a great mum, lovely person, but when I am alone, I hate my own company. I keep having a line from a song going round my head " it's hard to dance with the devil on your back". That's where I feel he is!
What you do is secondary imo - it is what you are that is important with God.
re we are born wanting to run our own lives. This is, technically, the definition of sin. We are born having no intention of putting God first. We have every intention of putting ourselves first. It is a very powerful pull to put ourselves first.
So this is what we are . Out of that stance we can do any number of things, 'good' and 'bad'. What we do is largely irrelevant to God, it's what we are - re we can choose to admit that we have no intention of putting God first; and ask him to make us what he wants us to be ie living through and from him. We can't do it ourselves, all we can do is to want it, to want to put God first. The pull to put ourselves first is too powerful, only he can make that change in us.
He can - and does - change who we are, because of what Jesus did. If Jesus hadn't done that, we wouldn't be able to have a relationship with God because of who we are. It is pointless to look at individual 'sins' because they are ten a penny, on and on - it's not as if God isn't totally familiar with all that human beings do. he knows all that, and has made a way to move forward.
Imagine if your child did something wrong. They said sorry, you forgave them; all over. Then they came back and said 'mum, I'm just so sorry' and you said 'that's forgotten! You do't need to go on about it, it's over, I've completely forgiven you!' And then your child comes back again and says 'oh mum, I'm so sorry, I shouldn't have done that thing'. You're getting sad because it's all done and dusted, over, and it is spoiling your relationship to keep going on about it.
So let whatever you did go. It's spoiling your lovely time with God. He's forgotten it. YOu are totally forgiven and always will be, regardless what you do. Just give yourself to him, the whole thing, and let him do whatever he does. He's the one who does the doing, not us. He can be trusted, you can trust him to do the good and best thing.
As for demons:
He forgave us all our sins, having cancelled the written code, with its regulations [what you do ], that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross
it's done and dusted. He is stupidly more powerful than any 'power or authority', so don't worry, you can trust him. He won't leave you, or expect you to do something (that would be just cruel). He's the one who does, and has done, the doing.
Look up OCD and religious obsessions.. Usually centre around rumination s about evil and the devil and compulsions to keep it all at bay.
Hey I cant quote the bible to you although I do try to live a christian life.
But very very simply, as I see it, God gave his one and only son so that we may be forgiven for our sins.. All that we need to do is repent.
I dont go to church or anything and I know I have sinned many many times and I probably will continue to do so. I have also had two very unpleasant experiences, one extremely so, but I believe with all my heart that God is love and if we choose to seek him he is there for us.
Please try to focus on a loving, kind and forgiving God if that helps you.
I have suffered from anxiety myself and I avoid anything to do with horror, gore, and evil. I think watching/reading/dwelling on anything negative attracts that negativity. Bless you and be kind to yourself.
"Taking every thought captive" seems apt here -
your last post sounds very positive, thanks for the update. Will be praying.
I just wanted to pop back in to update and thank all of you who posted. I think there are a few issues, obviously depression and anxiety (depression ongoing, is treated medically but I keep getting dips - psychiatrist discharged me, they are rubbish here!). I have been to see gp who has written a request for psychiatric services to be restarted. I have felt much better since I posted and you all gave me food for thought.
I do agree that my anxieties grew within the framework of some religious contexts. I am a bit confused about Christianity, I do get and believe in Jesus, but am struggling to digest much of the Old Testament, and some of the new. 'There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth' has cropped up a few times and I don't get why a loving god would do this to those who did not get themselves together. Anyway, I will think on that point.
My friend and colleague is a mental health nurse, I have had some good support off her. My biggest conclusion is that I have unrealistic ally high expectations of myself, and it's me who has been torturing myself, which I am stopping. Every time a self depreciating thought has popped into my head this week, I have challenged it.
Thank you all x
I agree with sashh that you should see your gp.
I myself had severe pnd after my youngest child and, as a Christian, it manifested itself as a very, very skewed view of my utter failure as a human being and feeling totally unforgiven by God. I was convinced I was going to hell and that God wanted nothing to do with me. It was the deepest, darkest pit I have ever been to and I hope I never go back there again.
I am actually thankful for the experience though, as it forced me to rethink my beliefs and search for revelation from God about who He is and what His character is. God is love, and He forgave every single sin you have ever done, or ever will do when His beloved Son died on that cross. Hold onto that truth no matter what dark thoughts might be going through your mind.
Regarding hell, and the devastating effect that belief in such a place can have in the minds of a believer...hell is not some awful eternal place you are going to be cast into if you can't be good enough/summon up enough faith etc. The word 'hell' has been misused/mistranslated in the bible and was never intended to have this meaning. (if you want to find out more just take a look at Tentmaker website...there are loads of useful resources there to explain this fully).
I will be praying for you x
Ok. Christian view point. God has forgiven you your past. That need no longer worry you. The devil is a liar. Each time you feel a demon bothering you, realise it is a lie and concentrate on God's forgiveness and his love for you. Many blessings for you and keep posting.
Supposing there were demons bothering you, they would want to do this without other people shoring up your mental, physical and spiritual resistence. Whether 'they' fit the stereotype of Bible demons, or the modern 'my-inner-demons-celebrities-on-drugs' model is irrelevant.
So surely the first thing to be attacked, would be your confidence in sharing this with your fellowship, your doctor and your pastor. Go on. Outsmart them and seek help without fear, as (whether metaphorical or real) they're bothering you and have no place hanging around your life.
no decent religion wants you to be frightened or unhappy. Please get medical help.
This is a MH issue.
Religious people with MH issues, if and only if, they have a delusion or a 'flash' tend to get them of their religion. It is such a big part of you that is what your mind picks.
I think the devil on your back is a metaphor, you have something weighing you down, it is the past.
You cannot change your past, how you behaved or what you did.
You can change your future.
You need some medication and some counseling.
Not a Christian doodah, sorry, but I have received treatment, both medication and therapy, for mh issues, and there has never been any suggestion that ss would be called! As long as you have no thoughts of harming your children and their needs are being met, there is no reason they would be. Please get help, that will be far better for you and your children.
I really think gp should be the first post of call if this is affecting your daily life. It could be a symptom of mental illness rather than something philosophical.
Romans 8 38-39 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor rulers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
DippyDoohDahDay - be assured that God loves you and that he knows and cares for you even in those times when you don't love yourself or think yourself worthy. I understand that you are worriedd about social services referral but they might have an anxiety management course that might help you. Could you talk to a counsellor who might help you address some of the issues in your past that are preying on your mind?
I don't know if you have heard of the footsteps poem. As it is copyright I've linked to it here:
Sometimes when we feel lowest and least aware of God the reality is that He is closest to us.
Take care, pray, but please ask for help from your GP as well.
Thanks. I really am reluctant to flag this to gp though In case social services referral made. Will pray x
Thanks, andwhenyou. Sounds like your mum was in good hands with you. I can identify with some of those experiences and your theological view, perhaps the concept of the devil, pure evil, is just so threatening and pervasive ( horror films, culture) that it rears its head more with mental health issues, and what I am experiencing is some anxiety and a bit of paranoia.
What I meant to say, OP, is get help from mental health professionals and doctors, and your prayer is just as powerful as a priest, the name of Jesus works the same if you say it, be careful who you confide in and weigh up what they tell you. I'll pray too.
I joined the church around 12 years old (through a friend), my mum was not a christian and had some mental health problems.
Mum's mental state got much worse when I was 14/15, to the point where I became her carer. The church (with the aim of being supportive) blamed our family troubles on demons, previous generations experience with Wicca, etc etc. As a young christian, I was told that I needed to cut them out of my life and flee from any association with my family. The prevailing teaching was that mental health issues did not exist, it was all the generational spiritual battle going on, and I needed to choose my side.
Actually, I chose to support and help her get the medical (hormonal) treatment she needed, and stop disclosing what was going on at home, to church.
A few decades on, I realise that (though I'm still very much a christian) a lot of the teaching was wrong. I was young and knew no better, but looking back have no question that mental health issues are real, and medical, not spiritual, and that people struggling with mental health issues in church should be given appropriate help and support, not demonized, exorcised or excluded. My theological viewpoint is that in biblical times, we didn't have the science to explain, so the demons and generational curses are the cultural views of the writers themselves (and not of God).
Are there any Christian perspectives out there?
Right. Sorry you have had such a rotten day
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
Old lady.. I really like our pastor but just don't want him to know some bits of my past..and he is on vacation at present.
Maybe someone else in the church...but I don't really feel part of them, feel they are much better than I could ever be.
Thanks for trying to understand and draw similarities. I do understand what you are saying, but from a good versus evil, devil versus god perspective, it would cause the devil more anguish that Christians exist, so give him more pleasure to get them to believe that they belong to the devil. I am reading what I have put though, and it does sound nuts. Am really reluctant to speak to gp etc as am worried they might involve social services then.
I would also suggest that this is a medical/MH problem. When you say you are looking for a "wider perspective", perhaps you mean from the point of view of a Pentecostal/Christian such as yourself. I can't give you that. From my point of view, God and demons do not exist.
However, like you, I have done things in my life that I regret, and which, from a Christian viewpoint, would be regarded as sinful. Unlike you, I have made no attempt to live a Christian life. But I have had no experiences like the ones you are describing, and nor does anyone else that I know. Looking at it logically, there is no chance that you are somehow specially set apart by demons as being worse and more sinful than I am, or than they are. The reason for this, I believe, is that demons don't exist.
It looks to me like you have a MH issue that is causing you to dwell on that particular aspect of your beliefs. That's why I agree with the other poster who suggests that you see your doctor again.
Everyone makes mistakes, and everyone has regrets. But no-one is unforgiveable to your God, he's all about mercy. Can you talk to a pastor?
I am trying to move myself forward emotionally, it's hard when services for support are so cruddy. Maybe the flashes are my subconscious telling me I'm trying to exorcise my demons...and the rest just underlines what abysmal self esteem I have
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