The Pope

(94 Posts)
PedroPonyLikesCrisps Thu 28-Feb-13 08:09:21

The Pope is supposed to be a 'chosen' conduit to God..... So why is he elected by humans?

hiddenhome Thu 28-Feb-13 13:47:45

Because the people who choose him have prayed very hard beforehand and receive God given inspiration. I suppose if God was choosing a Pope, then He would inspire all the Cardinals to vote for the same man, so I guess that's where deep political intrigue comes in grin

technodad Thu 28-Feb-13 19:25:58

Because it is a process made up by humans to give power and wealth to a very few number of people.

PedroPonyLikesCrisps Thu 28-Feb-13 22:09:23

It does seem very bizarre that this process is just accepted without question. Par for the course I guess.

LynetteScavo Thu 28-Feb-13 22:16:06

DH and I agreed tonight a pope should be elected....you'd have to take along your baptism certificate to be allowed to vote grin.

sashh Fri 01-Mar-13 06:49:31

I don't understand why they couldn't vote while he was still pope.

And what is he called now? Radio 4 is still calling him 'the pope', shouldn't he be the expope or Ratzinger or ...........

scaevola Fri 01-Mar-13 07:01:07

He is Pope Emeritus.

The Cardinals, after a lifetime of devotion, are supposed to be those who will perceive God's will with greatest clarity and vote accordingly.

It's not an arrangement unique to Catholicism: for example, the Dalai Lama is discovered and acclaimed by the high Lamas.

How do you think it should be done? Just ask people if they think it's meant to be them? Wait for a thunderbolt?

The church (all churches) are a human construct, and their decisions are made by the leadership one way or another, with more or less democracy. Nobody had yet found a better way of working out who God thinks is meant to be the next leader.

I dont want to sidetrack the thread but has anyone been to Mass since Thursday night?

I'm just wondering what is said in the Eucharistic Prayer where they pray for the Pope

PedroPonyLikesCrisps Sun 03-Mar-13 10:38:35

Surely God in his almighty position could come up with SOME way of listing us know, don't you think? He could make it so all humans know who it is. He could mark them somehow, he could write a future list with dates for us. All these things should be well within his capability, no?

Gingerdodger Sun 03-Mar-13 11:00:35

Woolly the prayer was for Pope Emeritus Benedict. Only our priest forgot!

It's a fascinating time. The voting cardinals are guided by the Holy Spirit so it is not men who choose but rather the Holy Spirit. My belief is that, as we are all individuals with our own views and affiliations, the differences come as humans try to fathom out what the guidance they receive means within the context of their own life. It's no different in that way to what Christians (and I am sure everybody else does in the context of their own beliefs/morals/guidance/ethics etc) do everyday.

My prayers are that the Holy Spirit guides the cardinals to consider what the Church needs to consider the issues of prime importance in today's world rather than getting stuck on doctrinal issues which don't further the key messages of Jesus.

PedroPonyLikesCrisps Sun 03-Mar-13 13:38:40

I just how they pick someone with a sensible stance on birth control and STDs. Might help out a great deal of third world countries for once.

NotTreadingGrapes Sun 03-Mar-13 17:51:19

Woollyback - here in Italy this morning nothing was said about the Pope during the prayers, we went straight to the archbishop/bishops etc.

sieglinde Mon 11-Mar-13 11:28:20

Actually, the election process has evolved in the way it has so as to prevent powerful rulers from being able to influence the procedure. You don't want Berlusconi with a finger in the pie.

PedroPonyLikesCrisps Mon 11-Mar-13 18:59:47

Powerful rulers? So God's ok then?

sieglinde Tue 12-Mar-13 10:57:33

Powerful rulers of the darkness of this world smile

marjproops Thu 14-Mar-13 16:46:18

Catholics-can you answer this please? serious question.

If people are supposed to retire by age 65 or so why do they elect someone so old?

Pope John Paul I think was the youngest when he was elected, but look at the last one...he felt he was too old and ill to carry on?

Why so old? thanx.

NotTreadingGrapes Thu 14-Mar-13 16:49:29

Not Catholic, but been here for long enough that I might as well be grin

I imagine it's because of the perceived wisdom of the elders thing, that you get in all faiths/religions/spiritual thingies <<<technical word

They can't be elected once they are over 80 or vote in the conclave. (poss considered too doolally and doddery by then)

sieglinde Fri 15-Mar-13 10:38:03

marj., as an RC my answer is that the CHURCH doesn't make people retire at 65 - that's a SECULAR law. The Bishop of Krakow said it best. 'One does not get down from the Cross.'

I think it's no bad thing for a papacy to be relatively short - reduces the chance of corruption. If the cardinals picked someone in their 30s the chances for corruption would be immense.

Also I like it that we buck the secular trend to say all youth is better than old age. The old have much wisdom to give us.

PedroPonyLikesCrisps Fri 15-Mar-13 15:36:24

Short administrations are all well and good, but when the leader is elected by a small select group of like minded individuals, that all goes out the windows as far as corruption is concerned. It also basically ignores all the progress which has been made with democracy over the last few centuries.

Why not have all the Catholics vote on a Pope?

PedroPonyLikesCrisps Fri 15-Mar-13 15:37:39

Plus, even the short administrations are quite long (over a decade) and there's been plenty of corruption going around.

nightlurker Fri 15-Mar-13 15:52:56

"Why not have all the Catholics vote on a Pope?"

When you say that, I picture a Papal campaign complete with campaign fundraisers, rallies, and attack ads. Something tells me it would inevitably end in disaster.

PedroPonyLikesCrisps Fri 15-Mar-13 19:56:59

They could do world tours and campaign across the globe. It could just work like the USA. Each country gets a quota of votes based on population and everyone votes on the same day. It would be special awesome!

sieglinde Sat 16-Mar-13 13:30:34

The RC church is not a democracy....

Are you all really so thrilled with the idea? Why not rid yourselves of the Royals, then? I mean, it's a bit rich, given that you still have them...

And Pedro, the cardinals are NOT like-minded in many respects.

DioneTheDiabolist Sat 16-Mar-13 13:37:59

Pedro, what would convince you that someone was chosen by god?

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