Just curious - how many muslims are on mumsnet?

(1000 Posts)
Galvanise Sat 01-Dec-12 00:21:53

Hello/Salaam,

I know mumsnet has a wide and diverse population and I tend to recognise some MN usernames as regulars. Just intrigued to know how big/small a community it may be.

Of course, I respect that there may be those who do not wish to even identify themselves for various reasons - which is fine too.

I am not asking for 'religiousness' levels or any vital stats! Nor is this a muslim-only thread or an 'no non-muslims' thread.
If you really wish to tell me that you are not a muslim, that is fine too smile

<Waves enthusiastically to all muslims and non-muslims> smile

nailak Thu 21-Feb-13 21:31:33

in hanafi if you spend on your husband and kids it is a sadaqah, the husband doesnt have to pay it back unless a loan is specified!

Also i remember when my mums cousins came to uk years back, they were baffled at seeing a white man cleaning floors in maccy ds

HardlyEverHoovers Thu 21-Feb-13 21:45:08

What a lovely quote Nailak, I needed to hear that right now! Enjoy your wedding Crescent, I'm off for an early night.

peacefuloptimist Fri 22-Feb-13 08:27:48

Salams sisters. Hardly I really agree with your point about some Muslim women struggling with the role of wife because of cultural baggage. I stopped working when I had ds (wasn't in my previous job long enough to be entitled to maternity) and I constantly struggle with accepting that and always find myself searching job sites. Its not that I don't enjoy being at home in fact I love being with ds and giving him that security. Also it was a real chore getting up in the mornings to go to work as I didn't really enjoy it and dreaded Monday's. However the idea that you can't be fulfilled unless you are working and the judgement I feel I get from people really makes it difficult to accept even though ds is just 6 months and it would be impractical to start working now. But also because of watching women of my mother's generation being exploited for their selfless devotion so that I find it difficult to put myself in the same vulnerable position even though I love, respect and trust my Dh that he would not do that.

Really loved your quote too nailak. I reallytry and make my reasoning for a lot of things now come back to God. If you look for gratitude from people for your actions you will get it sometimes and not others but if you do things for God He will never let your good actions go to waste.

peacefuloptimist Fri 22-Feb-13 08:32:07

As usual crescent I enjoy your posts so keep them coming. They definitely encourage me to read up!

peacefuloptimist Fri 22-Feb-13 08:32:40

As in lots of things I don't know about.

HardlyEverHoovers Fri 22-Feb-13 12:21:50

I can really understand your feelings peaceful. Even though I've always said how much I wish I could just focus on home, now the opportunity to do that is coming up I'm starting to panic slightly! However, I have the example of my mother, who was always a stay at home mum, and was greatly appreciated by my dad and also by me and my sisters and brothers once we were old enough to reflect!
I think part of the issue for me is a bit of ego. LIke if someone says, 'what do you do?', I'll be like, 'oh I'm a stay at home mum but let me just give you my CV so you can see that's not all I'm capable of!'.
I think this that's the burden of living in a society where motherhood ad domesticity are undervalued.
Could you do something kind of work from home peaceful?

nailak Fri 22-Feb-13 13:10:11

**VOLUNTEERS NEEDED**

For charity sisters funday at Waterlilly 16th March.

The charity is a mashallah very good one. Run by a sister I know and her husband, it is called al-ansari foundation, and the brother goes personally to Zanzibar. They are currently fundraising for their school for orphans.

Volunteers needed to distribute flyers before event, and to generally help out at the event. Please get in contact if you or anyone you know are interested inshallah.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Al-Ansari-Foundation

https://www.facebook.com/events/587503904626113/

nailak Fri 22-Feb-13 13:10:37

obviously would be great if you could go and get your mates to go too!

crescentmoon Fri 22-Feb-13 21:42:00

Mashaallah naila for the quote by sheikh Numan Ali Khan. I never heard of him before yesterday but I was really struck by what my old friend had said about a lecture he gave.in this talk she said that its better to have a few children and bring them up well and religiously than have many children and lose half because of no time or resources to devote to them. She said he made such good points she booked an appointment at the GP straight away to have a coil fitted so as not to have anymore children so she could give time and concentrate on the two little ones she had. Iv seen successful families with 3+ children and I was honest enough with myself to know the qualities those parents had I didn't so in my own situation I would be doing an injustice to myself and my dc!
hardly and peaceful I really agreed with both your posts. Laughed when you said you give your CV I'm a little the same! I got alot of wisdom from watching older women in my community and seeing how they navigated through different life issues. I got some great relationship advice and some bad, and I realise the bad was because they came from societies where polygamy wasn't uncommon so it was how they avoided those problems. I think that was behind my inner reservations to helping DH financially when I used to work before dc2 and dc3. Some of it transfers well to UK society and some of it doesn't though!
Wedding was lovely came back late to find DH waiting up for me in an apron and arms folded with a rolling pin by the door. Lol kidding. But he did wait all the way up till 12.30 when I came home which was a nice welcome. When I compare how uptight DH was when we first got married to how he is now I just shake my head in wonder subhanallah. Though I feel bad that he complains the only time I glam up is when I go to a ladies only wedding/party not for him. I'm working on it though sisters, last year my resolution was to be out of pjs before he came home! This year to wear nail polish each time I'm not praying- even if I have to remove it in a few days.

crescentmoon Fri 22-Feb-13 21:43:08

Love the idea of this charity still haven't acted on that 'resolution in one week' - will get to it tomorrow inshaallah.

beeny Fri 22-Feb-13 21:47:15

Hi can anyone recommend a good app for teaching the arabic alphabet

nailak Fri 22-Feb-13 22:02:39

there are a lot of them! on my android i have a few one has bubble game that you pop to match the letters, but unfortunately my phone is not working, i think is called arabic letters tws or something?

HardlyEverHoovers Fri 22-Feb-13 22:30:03

You give me hope with your tales of freedom crescent!

fuzzywuzzy Fri 22-Feb-13 22:37:42

Assalamualaikum, just signing in again. Really loved that naseeha of Br Numan Ali Khan, I really enjoy his lectures, saw him a couple of years ago at the Islamic GPU event. He speaks from a place of empathy. Mashallah.

crescentmoon Sat 23-Feb-13 07:55:53

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

crescentmoon Sat 23-Feb-13 07:57:29

dont leave fuzzy keep your posts coming! hardly all in good time my love your well on the way!

crescentmoon Sat 23-Feb-13 11:47:41

Salams sisters the other link I posted wasn't that great,here's another one...

http://ofartandfeminism.blogspot.co.uk/2011/05/cartoon-commentary-on-bikinis-and.html?m=1

A cartoon on bikinis and burkas. It got me thinking that what I really admire about western feminism is women's progress on
education,
the professions: entering them and then breaking through the heights,
politics,
involvement in making laws
and also changing laws to factor in women's life experiences.
That crimes against women taken seriously,

That's what many women in other parts of the world look to the west in hope and want to bring to their societies.

But not the 'if you've got it flaunt it ladies!' feminism.

crescentmoon Sat 23-Feb-13 11:49:22
nailak Sat 23-Feb-13 13:31:04

Personally I don't like the term Islamic feminism. It is not feminism. It is just Islam.

I often get called a feminist on Muslim forums! lol It is used as a kind of insult!

However I do think western feminism has a lot going for it, I do agree with the parts of it that agree with Islam. This involves the things you have said above.

I have been that girl who thinks she is empowered by dressing provocatively, and listening to Christina Aguillera Lyrics!

"So what am I not supposed to have an opinion
Should I be quiet just because I'm a woman
Call me a bitch cos I speak what's on my mind
Guess it's easier for you to swallow if I sat and smiled

When a female fires back
Suddenly big talker don't know how to act
So he does what any little boy would do
Making up a few false rumors or two"

read full lyrics here www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/christinaaguilera/cantholdusdown.html

and to be honest those types of role models and lyrics have a powerful draw to young women. They want to be able to flaunt their sexuality, and still have a brain. And they can identify with it. A lot of the stuff feminism addresses is out of the understanding and experience of many.

HardlyEverHoovers Sat 23-Feb-13 20:07:24

I really like that cartoon crescent
I remember being involved in a mosque open day a few years ago. A sister who wore the face veil came along so she could answer any questions that non-Muslims had about it.
I remember her conversation with a middle aged white guy, he was trying to express to her what he thought was wrong with it and how he really felt sorry for her, she was having trouble understanding him, they were kind of at cross purposes. Then he said, 'who makes you wear it'? She said 'no-one I choose to'.
He looked completely gobsmacked, then said 'oh, that's alright then' and went on his merry way looking much happier!
It really showed, like the cartoon, how we need to be so careful not to make assumptions about eachother.

crescentmoon Sun 24-Feb-13 12:24:32

Salams hardly and naila. Can't post much today but read and agreed with both your posts. hardly was it 'meet your Muslim neighbour' scheme? I really like the idea. I have a niqabi friend who iv been out with many times and been impressed with how hard she tries to reach out to people.at the park with women she'll lift her face veil to talk to them if there are just mums milling around- once we were talking and she greeted a lady next to us by pulling it up. this other lady was surprised by it and they got into a long talk about the practise vs politics of face veils and how she did it by her own conviction and even her DH was ambivalent about it- she even confessed to her her husband feels bashful that she wears it thinking people might think he's forcing her! She's a one woman dawah roadshow though- not by words but by actions mashaallah.
naila really agreed with your point that its like an insult isn't it lol sometimes. Those lyrics are interesting- the first 2verses wouldn't be amiss anywhere, I totally agree with them even! but then the rest of the song heads towards the 'if you can't beat them join them' of the female chauvinist pig brigade, and Ariel levy wrote a really interesting book about the rise of raunch culture and women being encouraged to objectify other women and themselves.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_Chauvinist_Pigs

What's the point of breaking out of the straight jackets of 'mother' and 'wife' only to then zip ourselves into the straight jacket of another type of patriarchy?

crescentmoon Sun 24-Feb-13 12:35:56

I Read an interesting approach in Bangladesh about the issue of maintenace after divorce- how although bangladeshis are hanafis the divorce laws are based on the Maliki legal school as that was more advanced on the quranic principles of alimony after divorce....

''Bangladesh, through some of its progressive judicial decisions has come on and off into the limelight of the discourse on Islam and women’s human rights.[2] I would take the liberty to term “progressive” decisions as those which add to and complement, rather than take away, rights of women in order for them to live as complete, independent individuals as understood by the Constitution of Bangladesh and various international human rights instruments, particularly the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the CEDAW (Convention on the Elimination of all Forms of Discrimination Against Women). Within the judicial arena a Matter of crucial importance today for Muslim women around the world and in Bangladesh is the question of Muslim women’s entitlement to maintenance from their husbands after their divorce.

It is unanimously agreed among Muslim scholars and jurists that the woman’s right to maintenance arises upon marriage and that the wife is first in order of priority to this entitlement, even before the children, parents and relatives. What is not so readily agreed upon however, is whether this right is extendable after the marriage ends. It is the contention of a good number of exponents of Islamic law that it is.
A constructive meshing of the several views that exist on this point would help lawyers, jurists and scholars to arrive at an agreeable plateau on the concept of post-divorce maintenance for divorced Muslim women. A common point of departure for some experts on this issue is the meaning of the term “mataa” or “mut`ah.”
...
Prior to the Muslim Family Laws Ordinance on 1961, Hanafi Muslim women had no forum to raise the question of recovery of arrears of maintenance. Under this Ordinance, the Arbitration Council formed could and did deal with the question and found in favour of women’s claims. However, we must note that the Ordinance, despite what was recommended by the 1956 Commission, only comprehended maintenance for married women, and not mataa for divorced women. It has already been pointed out that jurists are in agreement that it is permissible to follow a non-Hanafi school when Hanafi law does not provide relief. This is how our 1961 Ordinance came to be based on Maliki law. Thus today cases coming before Bangladeshi courts should not have a difficulty in finding a forum to provide relief to divorced women. For example, in Gul Bibi v. Muhammad Saleem[12] the argument was based on justice and common sense and the position that it is possible to borrow from another school of Muslim law when one school does not provide relief. Thus the Court held “According to Shiah and Shafi law the wife is entitled to maintenance notwithstanding the fact that she was allowed to get into arrears without having the amount fixed by the Court, or by agreement with the husband...

In the instant case the parties admittedly follow Hanafi school of thought... However, as some thinkers of Islam do favour the positive view and such view is also consistent with reason, logic and common sense, its adoption as a rule in case of such sects which do not strictly follow that school of thought, would not be unjustified.”

Today we have the Family Courts Ordinance of 1985, which not only has a streamlined procedure but also under which women have to pay only their minimal fees. Now that the question of mataa - post divorce maintenance, has been raised before the Appellate Division of Bangladesh, we can be hope that the question has at last found an appropriate forum for decision.

Some Muslim Majority Countries Where Women Enjoy Mataa Prior to codification, Egyptian personal law had been primarily based on the Hanafi School. Judges found themselves being forced to apply manifestly unjust rulings in cases of maintenance and divorce.[13] Thus Egypt adopted some of the principles of Maliki and Shafi Schools in cases of maintenance and some other matters. Jordanian Courts consider compensation for divorce a financial right of the divorced wife which is not forfeit in the case of death of the husband.[14] The Egyptian and Jordanian laws determine cases where divorce is by the unilateral will of the husband and not by mutual agreement. Both laws stipulate mataa or mut’a, in addition to maintenance for a divorced women after consummation.

The Malaysian Islamic Family Law as regards post divorce maintenance is established on the Sura II Verse 241.The Islamic Family Law (Federal Territory) Act 1984 provides, in addition to the woman’s right to maintenance, that a woman who has been divorced without just cause by her husband may apply to the Shari’a Court for mut’a and the Court may, after hearing the parties and after being satisfied that the woman has been divorced without just cause, order the husband to pay such sum as may be fair according to the hukum syara, which is based on Sura II Verse 241 of the Qur’an.

The Shari’a Courts in Malaysia have rightly highlighted the distinction between the iddah maintenance and mut’a or post divorce maintenance. Many scholars confuse iddah with divorce. In fact, iddah is a continuation of the marriage, being a waiting period during which a divorce pronouncement may be revoked. Thus during this time the husband and wife continue to be within a legally married state and therefore the question of mut’a at this stage does not arise. During the iddah the woman is entitled to maintenance as a wife. It is after the completion of the idda period that the divorce becomes effective and thus the question of post divorce maintenance where the divorce was arbitrarily brought by the husband.

Moreover, although not spelled out, a very logical distinction arises from the Malaysian, Jordanian and Egyptian situation. If the Qur’an has recognized two forms of dissolution (divorce and death) and has provided very important rights (inheritance etc.) to the woman divorced by death, would not it be logical to think that the Qur’an had manifestly intended that the woman divorced during the life time of the husband would also be entitled to some form of compensation? In both cases we are talking about a right which arises upon dissolution. It is therefore redundant whether the spouse divorcing is dead or alive.

We must remember that the main reason issues such as maintenance rights for divorced women in particular and reform proposals in personal laws in general, is taking place because Bangladesh, along with several other countries, Muslim and non-Muslim alike, is creating various forums in which these issues beg dealing with. It would be frivolous to say, as some sections of society do, that these issues are now coming up because of western/feminist/un-Islamic influences on our society. Significant sections of the Hanafi ummah have adopted non-Hanafi interpretation of mataa as well as important questions of Muslim women’s rights. Bangladesh, which has a predominance of Hanafi adherents, implements Maliki based Muslim laws too. This by itself should be enough for us to realise that where borrowing from one school would be more consonant with principles of justice, fairness and equity, it would be erroneous not to do so.''

BlueOrange Sun 24-Feb-13 14:55:42

What i can never understand is why such importance is put on schools of thought to the extent that it is considered mixing and matching if you go from one to another then back. Yes thy are all great and correct. Yes they should be able to borrow from one another because ultimately islam - the law of Allah is above the schools of thought.

What throws me is that most people actually do not know everything that the 4 main schools say,yet they decide they will follow one and only one no matter what. This is not a criticism of people who follow a school, that is fine to do, but i do not understand it when people are clearly making up their own rules and rituals which none of the great scholars put their name to.

nailak Sun 24-Feb-13 15:48:35

because if you mix and match why are you mixing and matching? is it to folllow Islam or your own nafs, what is desirable to you?

Also if you mix and match within rulings like choose hanafi wudhu and shafi salaah method, then your action may not be valid according to any school of thought, which would take you out of Al sunnah wa jamaah.

crescentmoon Sun 24-Feb-13 16:41:05

"when people are clearly making up their own rules and rituals which none of the great scholars put their name to."

salams, which do you mean there blue.

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