Isn't it a bit weird that you have to believe in a god to join cubs, but it doesn't matter which god it is?

(31 Posts)
beansmum Thu 29-Nov-12 21:06:05

They can't ALL be real. Assuming you think one of them is real - why is an incorrect belief in another god better than an incorrect belief that there is no god at all?

KnittingChristmas Thu 29-Nov-12 21:07:25

Atheists might start making other cubs question their religion? wink

beansmum Thu 29-Nov-12 21:31:15

Wouldn't exposure to different religions have a similar effect?

MirandaWest Thu 29-Nov-12 21:32:52

No one has ever asked DS (or me for that fact) whether he believes in God in terms of him having been a Beaver, or being a Cub. Have we just missed out?

Two options I think -

1. believing in the wrong God means you are just a bit mistaken, whereas atheism is fundamentally different from belief

2. all religious belief comes from one source, which is God, so there is no such thing as believing in the 'wrong' one. But not believing at all is just wrong.

Miranda - he has made a promise which mentions God. He may have been so totally not bothered by the concept of "God" that he barely noticed or cared.

beansmum Thu 29-Nov-12 21:59:56

I sort of understand the logic of those options, but from a practical point of view it makes no sense. If there are lots of religions represented, some of which conflict with each other fairly significantly, you would have to be sensitive and avoid most faith based activities. It's kind of pointless to require everyone to have a religion if it's going to have no impact on the way the group is run.

Oh I totally agree it's pointless! Even if they wanted to encourage religion, getting the non-religious in to have a chance to talk to them would be a good thing rather than a bad thing. But all the cubs etc groups are based on a traditional pattern, where religious belief was the norm, even if a few people might have been from religions other than christianity (and more than a few in other countries). So they were respectful of the idea that your God might not be the Christian God, but atheism was just too much to face.

PedroPonyLikesCrisps Thu 29-Nov-12 23:18:07

Interestingly there is a badge for 'my religion' .... guess that's a bit tricky if you're an atheist. Also I'm not sure cubs are necessarily old enough to have formed their own opinion on religious matters, perhaps it should be called 'my parents' religion' instead.

technodad Fri 30-Nov-12 12:56:47

Interestingly there is a badge for 'my religion' .... guess that's a bit tricky if you're an atheist. Also I'm not sure cubs are necessarily old enough to have formed their own opinion on religious matters, perhaps it should be called 'my parents' religion' instead.

Or "The thing I have been brainwashed into without my permission" badge.

No one has ever asked DS (or me for that fact) whether he believes in God in terms of him having been a Beaver, or being a Cub. Have we just missed out?

Did he not have to swear to do his duty to god? If you can't make that oath then you can't join.

Isn't it a bit weird that you have to believe in a god to join cubs, but it doesn't matter which god it is?

Some say weird, some say discriminatory, but we have been here before just a couple of weeks ago on this forum.

FiercePanda Fri 30-Nov-12 18:21:14

When I was in Brownies waaaaaay back in the day, a girl got to rewrite a bit of her Promise, as she was from an atheist family and her parents didn't want her promising to do her duty to a god they didn't believe in. I remember the pack leaders being very sniffy about the whole thing with her and her parents, which was not good at all. confused

beansmum Sat 01-Dec-12 01:02:15

technodad - thanks for pointing that out, found a couple of threads now.

NamingOfParts Sat 01-Dec-12 01:16:42

No solution only sympathy. Both DDs liked Guides/Brownies except that our troops were very church based. This meant that meetings were basically prep for church parade/church parade/review of church parade. This really left little time for anything else.

Ontesterhooks Sat 01-Dec-12 03:04:33

I am going to teach my ds about the Flying Spaghetti Monster and pastaferianism for when this comes up smile

FiercePanda Sat 01-Dec-12 08:14:58

Now down to his noodly appendage!

FiercePanda Sat 01-Dec-12 08:15:28

Bow, not now.confused

crescentmoon Sat 01-Dec-12 08:21:40

Off topic but can I ask what atheists swear on in court during testifying or song jury service? Christians swear on the bible, Muslims swear on the Quran, what does an atheist do?

crescentmoon Sat 01-Dec-12 08:22:01

*during jury service

seeker Sat 01-Dec-12 08:23:25

It says "do my duty to my god".

We discussed this with ds recently- he said it without really thinking at Beavers and Cubs, but did think about it before moving on to Scouts. He decided that his god was currently Darwin, so he was fine with saying the line.

seeker Sat 01-Dec-12 08:24:02

Atheist "affirm"

ByTheWay1 Sat 01-Dec-12 08:25:50

I'm sure every religion thinks their God is the only one and if others join their "club" the others may think they are promising their own God from their own religion, but really they are promising the God of the organisers...

my cousin made her promise to her "Gods" as an atheist.. she said her Gods were of peace and love so the Brown Owl couldn't really say much....

Alibabaandthe40nappies Sat 01-Dec-12 08:26:11

I think it is more to do with affirming the general idea of community, helping others, thinking about something other than yourself, something greater than each one of us plodding along in isolation.

Good things for children to think about, whatever their beliefs.

seeker Sat 01-Dec-12 08:32:42

Sorry, pressed too soon. Atheists say "I do solemnly declare and affirm that the evidence....etc etc" As do lots of other people, including some Christians who won't take oaths because that implies that they might be lying otherwise. It's based on a biblical text which says "let your yeah be yeah and your no be no". You've been able to affirm since 16 something.

RooneyMara Sat 01-Dec-12 08:34:22

Yes I think you have to play it backwards though iyswim...rather than do my duty to 'God' they have to 'my God' which allows for different faiths and so on...I think that's a good thing and just ignore it, or don't say it if it doesn't apply to you.

The way I see it God is a concept, basically means 'what is good' but not some mystical being - just maybe a mystical or spiritual essence, somehow, a feeling, a sense of right, etc etc etc. Which I have no problem with at all.

I just don't subscribe to the people-based, church-based, ritual-based things that happen around it so much.

Try and do what is 'right' is what I teach my children, that should be enough.

crescentmoon Sat 01-Dec-12 08:46:33

Is the swearing option so necessary then if everyone can just affirm? That's interesting seeker

msrisotto Sat 01-Dec-12 08:47:27

Crescent apparently the whole swearing to god thing is fabricated/ highly exaggerated for films. link

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