can I ask you to look at this reading (for a funeral) and tell me what you think?

(43 Posts)
fuckwittery Sun 04-Nov-12 00:16:15

It will be read in Latin, but the translation will be printed in the funeral sheet.
Can you just tell me your first reactions please?

Have pity on me, have pity on me,
O ye my friends;
For the hand of God hath touched me.
Alas, alas, alas, my God,
How long wilt thou not depart from me
nor let me alone till I swallow down
my spittle?
Alas, alas, alas, my God,
wherefore hidest thou thy face,
and holdest me for thine enemy?
Alas, alas, alas, my God,
Why hast thou set me as a mark
against thee,
so that I am a burden unto myself?
Have pity on me, have pity on me, O ye my friends.
Ah, ah me! Too harsh the retribution
that torments me;
Ah, too searing the flames that
consume me.
When will you give me relief?
When will you cool my fever?
You have changed, O Lord, and become
cruel to me.
Have pity on me, have pity on me,
O ye my friends;
For the hand of God hath touched me.

(Extract from "Messe pour les Trepasses" Mass for the Souls of the departed by Marc Antoine Charpentier)

fuckwittery Sun 04-Nov-12 00:16:42

and the latin

Miseremini mei, miserimini mei,
saltem vos amici me,
Quia manus domini tetigit me.
Hei, hei hei, mihi domine,
usque quo non parcis mihi
nec dimittis me ut glutiam salivam meam?
Hei, hei, hei, mihi domine,
cur faciem tuam abscondis,
et arbitraris me inimicum tuum?
Hei, hei, hei, mihi domine,
qua reposuisti me contrarium tibi, et factus sum nihi et ipsi gravis?

Miseremini mei, miseremini mei, saltem vos amici mei.
Ah, ah, poenis crucior nimis
asperis;
Ah, ah, flammis uror nimis
acribus.
Quando dabis mihi solatium? Quando dabis mihi refrigerium?
Ah, ah, mutatus es mihi in
crudelem.
Miseremini mei, miseremini mei,
saltern vos amici mei,
Quia manus domini tetigit me.

Shallishanti Sun 04-Nov-12 00:22:08

that seems a bit doom and gloom even for a funeral
shouldn't there be an element of hope?
either god related
or human related (celebrate the person or their acheivements)?

EduCated Sun 04-Nov-12 00:26:30

It is rather morbid, even for a funeral. Does it have a particular/meaning to the person who's funeral it is?

BitBewildered Sun 04-Nov-12 00:27:41

It's a bit harsh, I think. Did the deceased request it? Were they particularly religious?

comethasmybrokentelly Sun 04-Nov-12 00:28:02

First reaction is its horrible.
I am really sorry if that is not what you wanted to hear.
We recently had out mum's funeral. We loved her very much. She was fit and well,then got brain cancer and died a few weeks later.
We were devastated but her funeral was a day of great joy and celebration for the life of a wonderful woman.

That poem is ghastly

comethasmybrokentelly Sun 04-Nov-12 00:29:36

And now I feel really bad for saying that because someone you know has died and you are probably sad.
I'm sorry

RyleDup Sun 04-Nov-12 00:30:00

I don't like it. At all.

RyleDup Sun 04-Nov-12 00:30:59

What makes you choose that particular one?

missymoomoomee Sun 04-Nov-12 00:31:59

I don't like it either, sorry, it seems so pitying and morbid, funerals are more about celebrating the life of the person (to me anyway).

fuckwittery Sun 04-Nov-12 00:32:40

Thanks, sorry to drip feed but I wanted first reactions.

My mother chose it for her funeral in a funeral plan written by her 15 years ago (she died this week). When she wrote it she was just about to become wheelbound and was definitely in the deepest despair, shortly afterwards she became completely paralysed (in her mid 40s). She lived with that paralysis for so many years, despite her mind being unaffected, so she suffered in the way described. I am going to discuss with the vicar because I think she did later find some peace in her illness although you wouldn't think so from this.
The text is based on the words from Book of Job, Job despaired and thought God had forsaken him (much like Jesus on the cross) but he believed in redemption and salvation. If I use it I think it needs some explanation.

Absolutely awful, sorry. There is no way I would want that read at a funeral of a loved one.

missymoomoomee Sun 04-Nov-12 00:36:04

I'm so sorry for your loss sad

Do you think she would have chosen this reading in the last 2 years?

fuckwittery Sun 04-Nov-12 00:36:24

my first reaction too, when I read her funeral plan, was oh jesus, as it summed up all her suffering over the years. But she wrote it at a very dark time when she thought she had nothing left to live for, but although she then lived a dreadful life she did see me married, and met her grandchildren, and I do believe she found some peace in the following years, she had a long time to reflect. I might explain it in a eulogy.

Shallishanti Sun 04-Nov-12 00:36:29

sorry for your loss
I think with the context you give it could be OK- if you can go on to describe how she found some peace- and you say it's what she chose, when and why.

fuckwittery Sun 04-Nov-12 00:36:40

missy I'm not sure, and I so wish I knew sad

missymoomoomee Sun 04-Nov-12 00:38:02

Could you have 2 readings and say your Mum chose this and then you could pick one that you feel is more appropriate?

RyleDup Sun 04-Nov-12 00:38:57

Ok, I understand. Ok, it would be ok to use that to show how she felt. And then to use something more upbeat, with freedom as a main theme, to show how it would be for her now that she has passed. I get it now. Its ok as long as you join it with something else.

RyleDup Sun 04-Nov-12 00:39:41

I'm sorry by the way.

EduCated Sun 04-Nov-12 00:40:42

Oh, heck. What a position to be in. Discussing it with the vicar sounds like a good plan. On the one hand, it's what she wanted, but on the other it does sound as though it was a decision made at a very particular point in time, the circumstances around which have now shifted slightly.

It must be difficult trying to make decisions like this when you've just lost your mum sad

fuckwittery Sun 04-Nov-12 00:42:59

I have a note of more recent plans, she says NOT a celebration of life but a quiet reflective sermon with thanks to those who supported her through her long illness. That is from 2 years ago. However she didn't specify readings, just suggested hymns. I don't think this is a very quiet reflective piece so I don't know.

She has other readings as well, but again chosen in 1997.

When I am laid in earth,
May my wrongs create no trouble in thy breast.
Remember me, but ah! forget my fate.
(Dido's Lament, from 'Dido & Aeneas', an opera by Purcell)

When I am dead, my dearest,
Sing no sad songs for me;
Plant thou no roses at my head Nor shady cypress tree:
Be the green grass above me, With showers and dewdrops wet; And if thou wilt, remember,
And if thou wilt, forget.
I shall not see the shadows,
I shall not feel the rain:
I shall not hear the nightingale
Sing on, as if in pain:
And dreaming through the twilight
That doth not rise nor set,
Haply I may remember
And haply may forget.

REMEMBER
Remember me when I am gone away,
Gone far away into the silent land;
When you can no more hold me by the hand,
Nor I half turn to go yet turning stay.
Remember me when no more day by day You tell me of our future that you planned:
Only remember me; you understand
It will be late to counsel then or pray.
Yet if you should forget me for a while
And afterwards remember, do not grieve:
For if the darkness and corruption leave
A vestige of the thoughts that once I had,
Better by far you should forget and smile
Than that you should remember and be sad.

missymoomoomee Sun 04-Nov-12 00:47:19

I prefer the other readings tbh. What are your thoughts on them?

BitBewildered Sun 04-Nov-12 00:47:46

sad Sorry OP, for your loss. The reading makes perfect sense in the context you describe and if you can explain in a eulogy then the congregation will understand, I'm sure.

Sorry for your loss OP. I would talk to the vicar about the best way forward. I can understand that you would want to honour her wishes and I think that the vicar will be the best person to talk to about how to do that. I am sure that this won't be a new situation for them to deal with.

fuckwittery Sun 04-Nov-12 00:52:48

The last 2 readings upset me, as she chose them when I was 16 and she was contemplating suicide before it was too late (i.e. before she was physically incapable). She didn't want to leave me, and these were a message to me had she left me an orphan back then. However, she decided to keep going, on a path where there was no way back. My feelings now she has died at the end of that road are very different, I am relieved for her, and for me, and I want to remember her as she was before she was ill. I am not sure the latter readings are the most appropriate, I am not sad she has died now as everyone's overwhelming feeling is that she is released from her suffering. The news was described as happy news by my great aunt and that is true.
I can see that they can have a different interpretation, but I can't stop thinking that they are directed to the 16 year old me and we are in a different place now.

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