Muslim ladies help please - veiled faces and makeup?

[MichaelaS]

Please can the Muslim sisters help me understand something I struggle with?

I live in a Muslim majority area and there are lots of headscarves about and quite a few full face veils too. Some younger girls seem to wear a head covering more out of culture than anything else, e.g. Skintight jeans and top, lots of sequins and Jewlery and makeup. Fair enough. Or maybe they are following a literal rule to cover their hair but there is no direct rule about makeup etc? But others seem to dress with an aim of modesty with loose garments hiding their shape, gloves, face veils and generally are unadorned so they are not eye catching.

What puzzles me is the women in between, who wear full veils but lots of eye makeup too. Are these women wearing makeup to feel good? To look good at home or amongst female company? Or for some other reason?

I always thought the point of a veil was modesty, so that you did not encourage lustful thoughts and so your beauty was saved for your husband. If so, doesn't makeup which is visible to others on the street go against the spirit of modesty? Others who cover their hair for modesty like catholic nuns tend not to wear makeup.

I hope I'm not being an idiot, I just can't work it out. Please help me or tell me if I'm being insensitive!

[MichaelaS]

Hi, thanks for the reply and explanation. I hadn't considered the need for ablutions, thats really interesting.

[FannieMaeButFreddieWont]

I've often wondered the same thing OP but wouldn't ask anyone in RL cos wouldn't want to cause offense.

Like the OP I'm in a predominently Asian (Pakistani) area, I think everyone should be free to dress as they wish and I don't judge.
That being said I don't understand the girls in stilettos, skinny jeans, tight top and thick makeup but then the headscarf on.

Is the scarf a cultural identity for them to hold onto? I can't be about modesty I assume, because of the rest of the outfit being so tight.

I don't mind at all what anyone wears, but I do wonder about the perceived conflict between modesty and form fitting, tight clothes and make up, only becaue I'd like to understand better though.

[JuJuMoo]

Hi, wow great question! OP you appear to me to have a better understanding of the reasons why we cover than many of the girls/women you mention :-) Sometimes for us Muslim women its a case of not seeing the wood for the trees, or as you picked up on, hijab being something cultural and expected rather than understood and agreed-with. It is saddening that covering up has sometimes become a fashion statement in itself, with trendy young thaaangs wearing the hijab to enhance their 'look' rather than for modesty. It's totally up to them what they wish to wear, but I think they'd be better going for one or the other rather than trying to blend the two .... as it just confuses people and on a religious note - its pushing boundries that shouldn't really be blured eg, the skinny jeans and headscarf look.

I live in an area where the veil is very common and I myself wear it too. I'm a convert as most of my veil-wearing friends are. Regarding make-up, we are encouraged to beautify ourselves for our husband's etc so wearing make up is fine as long as the ingredients are halaal and that it doesn't interfere with ablution as crescentmoon outlined. But the make-up should not be seen by men other than husbands, sons and other close family (known as mahrams.) So wearing niqab (veil) and a trowel full of make-up does kind of the defeat the purpose .... especially as it can make the eyes look even more appealing if they are the only thing showing! That said it is something I am guilty of at times, if I have to pop out in the evening after I have applied it in time for DH coming home, I won't always take my make-up off and I certainly wear it for events / parties (these are women only anyway.) It is probably laziness in some cases ..... like mine! What I find useful though is wearing a veil with a couple of layers, so that if I'm wearing heavy eye-make-up I will flip the top layer down to cover the eyes (its very thin and you can see through it fairly well) for a short time if passing lots of men etc. That said, what I do now a days is avoid eye makeup and get an eyelash tint and perm, that way the eyes look nice but in a natural way.

[HardlyEverHoovers]

Think I'm a bit late to contribute, but OP I can see your confusion. Really nice to hear the perspective of a niqab (face veil) wearer Jujumoo.
I think for many young women they really want to follow the Islamic dress code, but feel a lot of pressure from society to look good, and that results in a somewhat confusing image at times!
I now dress quite conservatively, large headscarf to cover breast area, long loose dress or skirt and cardigan, no noticeable makeup. In the past in my 20's I attempted to be 'cool' while covering, I still want to look nice by my own standards but no longer really try to meet other peoples standards. I remember seeing some photos of myself in my 'cool muslim' phase and realising I hadn't really achieved what I'd intended (ie probably wasn't covered quite enough to meet Islamic standards) and that inspired me to become a bit stricter with it. That said I think Muslim women within and between different societies interpret the rules in different ways and that's OK.

[sashh]

OK ladies, I'm going to hijack this if you don't mind.

I once took a group of students to look around a university. I noticed there was something different about one and said, "X, you look different, have you had your hair cut?", her reply, "No Miss, I'm not wearing my headscarf".

So what are the rules, if any, about only wearing a headscarf some of the time.

I can understand not wearing a veil / head scarf and only putting one on to go to the mosque (knew someone who did that) and if I was invited to something at a mosque I would too. And I'd probably be wearing something baggy and coveriing too.

I know some of the girls I taught wore more modest clothes at college. I once complemented a girl on her 'dress', it probably has a propper name, long sleeved, floor length black with a pattern around the neck, down the front and around the bottom.

She said she only wore it for college and wore jeans at home. And that I get too. Home you are with your family, I think what JuJu called mahrams but at college you are mixing with people of different backgrounds, cultures, religeon and you want to give out a 'don't even bother, I'm not available' vibe.

As a teacher headscarves can be useful, I told a girl off for eating in a computer room (no food or drink allowed at any time). Then I said "and it's Ramadan".

That started an interesting discussion on whether she could eat (time of the month) or couldn't because it was breaking the college rules and she could go to the canteen for a plate of chips after class.

Sorry I've rambled. Basically why would you wear a headscarf most of the time but not all of the time?

[HardlyEverHoovers]

Some nice things on those blogs crescentmoon. Don't think I've ever looked that stylish even before being Muslim!
Convenience is definately a big factor in wearing abaya (long loose dress). Now I'm a mum and in the house most days, I like wearing my 'me' clothes inside and then putting on an easy cover all. I make my abayas and it's nice to wear clothes you've made yourself.
Interestingly when we visit my husbands home country, I tend to wear brighter colours even though it's a Muslim country as everyone wears bright colours there.
I seem to remember something in the Islamic advice on womens dress about blending in or something along those lines, does anyone know?

[sashh]

Thank you Cresent moon, I only called the student out because she should not have been eating in the IT room regardless of anything else.

It's sad that there is discrimintaion based on a headscarf. And who cares if someone prays at lunchtime. It is their free time.

Maybe because I live somewhere where headscarves are common. That particular college had only a tiny number of white students, and enough muslim students that the canteen only served hallal food.

When it was Eid I had classes with two or three students in. Personally I think the entire college should close for two days at Eid and maybe have two days less at half term. There is no point introducing a new topic when so many students are absent (college policy, staff and students could take two days for religeous holidays without any penalty).

My final class of the day, the students had a three hour break before my class, they asked if they could go home. I couldn't authorise that but I told them that if they didn't turn up in the first 15 mins I would assume they were either celebrating Eid or had been invited to friends who had.

Thank you for answering my questions. I am facinated with culture and how things are interpreted. That's probably why I love teaching the 'equality and diversity' unit.

[juule]

Crescent was the person "calling you out" or enquiring. Until recently I didn't realise that there were exceptions. With hindsight I should have done as I'm aware of the exceptions to fasting in Catholicism.

[sashh]

I've just remembered an ........... well if I say amazing, I mean barely believable bit of ignorance.

My parents attend a Roman Catholic church in Lancashire. It happens to be in an area with a lot of people from Pakistani backgronds.

So the congregation has a large number (majority) of Pakistani immigrants or first generation. I think it is not easy to be a Christian in Pakistan at the moment. And of course many women wear salwar kameez.

Anyway - the ignorance. Brace yourself.

One of my mother's friends, "Always checks that 'they' have drunk the wine at communion because that proves they are not muslim".

I mean what the ..........

The only reason I can think of for a muslim to attend an RC service would be to attend a wedding or christening.

I have no idea why my mother's friend thinks that muslim women would try to infiltrate an RC church, take their children to be baptised and for commuion. And why she thinks it is just the women.

I never know whether to laugh at the stupidity or cry at the ignorance.

The equality and diversity is part of BTEC Level 3, most students go on to become nurses and it is vital they have an understanding of different cultures.

One small thing (well quite a big thing) is cultural differences when a child is born.

Some cultures dictate a woman stays in bed for a set time, or does not wash for a set time. Other cultural practices are based around the new baby. Some Vietnamese people virtually ignore their baby for a week. They will feed and change them but nothing else. This is because of the belief that evil spirits are attracted to new babies and the joy they bring to a family.

I wish I could teach it full time.

[MichaelaS]

This thread is absolutely fascinating, thanks all for your ideas comments and education!