ZOMBIE THREAD ALERT: This thread hasn't been posted on for a while.
I'm sure I'm seeing ghosts.(143 Posts)
I work late afternoons as a cleaner in a school. The building is not that old, perhaps built in the early eighties.
It isn't remotely creepy but when I started I was sure I coud see children in the place, long after they'd gone home. Just fleeting glimpses that would make me turn my head. Thre was no " aura" or chill in the air that you sometimes associate with ghostly activity.
I tried to ignore it, not because I was frightened because I wasn't, but because I thought it might be my anxiety at having to do this job ( I had to take any work following redundancy)
However, although I'm very settled there now I am seeing just as much activity.
I have not mentioned this to all my collegues as I dont want to freak them out.I told my supervisor who informed me she had seen things in the old part of the school, that is set apart from this annex.
Has anyone else had such an experience?
*I just don't like blanket putting down of others opinions because they don't fall in line with another persons belief which was the point I was making.
If the poster had said "I don't believe in ghosts" fine but saying "they aren't real" as a blanket shutting down statement annoys me.*
I'm happy for people to say what they want, it bears no reflection on me what another thinks. If they say something that is different to what I think in response to something I say then I'm more than happy with that and happy to continue debate. I guess it's always best to keep in mind that this is an entirely public space, and this sort of discussion is probably not for someone who will feel put down by a rejection of their beliefs.
headinhands But I bet you would acknowledge there are things out there that are beyond yours any any other person's understanding. In this way they are 'supernatural', because we cannot prove or comprehend them fully.
I am very interested in perception, there is scientific evidence concerning how perceptions can be altered and resulting brain physiology can often be measured and variance found when people are found not to be interpreting what they see for example correctly. People are also shown to be very suggestible.
If you designate the term spiritual to this altered perception, for example, delusions would be bad as in not seeing the Truth, you can see how this fits in with spirits as written about in the Bible.
The leap of Faith comes when the spirit is acknowledged as an outside force. However I like to think what makes me, me is more than a collection of DNA, nerves, synapses and chemical reactions so it is a leap I am very happy with.
The Bible talks about 'spiritual discernment' which is supernatural, in that you can know what is good without reasoning.
So potentially your reasoning could say this thing is bad/evil but the spirit could be saying the opposite? That's
deeply alarming interesting.
Anyways, this thread is about ghosts so as much as I'd love to have a thrash about over the bible (and I would!) I'm going to leave it at that <polishes mn halo>
so it is a leap I am very happy with
And there's the money shot. You believe what you believe because it makes you happy on some level. I don't want to think things just because they make me feel good. I want to think things that are factual and face the reality of our universe which is pretty darn fantastic is it is
As I said Headinhands - My comment was just that it seems unfair for the mentioned poster to just state "They aren't real" and that's that. People can believe what they like. As this is a religion and spirituality board some people will have very religious beliefs and others may have beliefs of a more spiritual nature. As such I feel it is important to respect each others beliefs and not to shut them down which was the only issue I had with that one post very early up the thread.
I'm not here to debate whether ghosts are real or to convince anyone of their existence. Obviously scientific evidence would be needed to confirm any type of proof - my point about experience was that if a person has had such an experience then they will likely believe in ghosts. I have not had such, therefore am open minded to the possibility however have nothing to base a belief in ghosts etc on.
Headinhands - surely any belief in religion is a leap of faith?
Im a scientist, I love science and find it amazing how much we know and are continuing to discover about our universe. However I am open minded about the things we do not currently know and have religious beliefs which are my own because they make sense to me and are how i choose to believe the things we don't understand.
"As such I feel it is important to respect each others beliefs and not to shut them down"
Beliefs don't automatically deserve respect. A person's right to hold a belief does, but not the belief itself. It's up to the poster not to feel shut down and offended. If they do that easily because of words on a screen they probably shouldn't be airing their beliefs.
If someone rejects anything I say then I will try to elaborate why I have said that. Feeling offended would just seem a little silly seeing as I don't even know you and I am well aware that all over the world, all the time there are people thinking different things to me.
* However I am open minded about the things we do not currently know and have religious beliefs which are my own because they make sense to me and are how i choose to believe the things we don't understand.*
I think I'm fairly open minded too, but guess I just require evidence when the claims are huge. I think it was Carl Sagan who said something like 'extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence'.
I think this is deteriorating into semantics and i'm not really clear on the issue you have with what I posted. I made one comment, as I thought that it was unfair to come onto a thread in a spirituality area and make the statement that was made. I explained why I thought this, which to me seems perfectly reasonable - we have no facts so stating something as fact seemed unfair and seemed (imo) to be a dismissal of the OP's question in a manner that seemed unnecessary.
As I said, I have no problem with others having different beliefs, but yes I do find it rude and unfair to shut down another person beliefs, based purely on ones own. As I said, I don't really understand your issue with what I posted. I just said that we don't know if ghosts are real or not (because we don't) so to me it doesn't seem right to just come on and say "they're not real" as a fact as we just don't know.
Surely the point of faith is that it doesn't require evidence though? That is what religion is based on is it not?
Surely the point of faith is that it doesn't require evidence though? That is what religion is based on is it not?
Am happy to discuss religion on any of the other religion debate threads here but as this one is about ghosts then I'm going to sit on my hands for this one.
it doesn't seem right to just come on and say "they're not real" as a fact as we just don't know.
Remember my friend the leprechaun? Would you be as happy to be as ambivalent about his existence as you are ghosts?
but yes I do find it rude and unfair to shut down another person beliefs
If a person feels their beliefs shut down so easily they should probably step away from the Internet. This area is Philosophy/religion/spirituality. I'm fascinated with the things people (myself included) believe and why,. People are free to ignore my posts.
So potentially your reasoning could say this thing is bad/evil but the spirit could be saying the opposite? That's deeply alarming interesting.
Yes, because our fallible biology, preconceptions and suggestible nature is not to be trusted entirely. From this perspective you cannot fully reason without being able to entirely trust the information. Consensus does not really help as we are all fallible, as human beings. So what people call 'reasoning' boils down to faith in the end. It is a Zeitgeist, if you like. Would you question what your reasoning said if the scientific community claimed the opposite? Is is just the same really....
I want to think things that are factual and face the reality of our universe which is pretty darn fantastic is it is smile
I would agree here, but also think it is fascinating and all the more interesting because of what we don't fully comprehend and cannot establish as fact.
Do you understand my point about that particular comment though? As I said I don't really understand the issue you seem to have with what I posted? As I said, the poster did not elaborate or state it as their belief they stated it as FACT and that was what I personally (plus others up the thread) did not like about the statement. Surely that makes sense?
As for the leprechaun - I have never met a person who sincerely believes in their existence, I have met people who believe in ghosts. Yes I am more likely to believe in the possibility that ghosts exist. Is your issue the fact that I am open to the fact that ghosts might exist? I'm not clear on the issue, I'm sorry.
headinhands Your leprechaun may exist spiritually, amongst the people who believed in him. The belief could be an (outside) agent which affects their thoughts, actions ultimately brain physiology, if it is so strong they start to 'hallucinate'.
The point I was making was that although I couldn't say that there are definitely not ghosts that a, it's very very unlikely that there are and that b,the person who thinks there are ghosts has to stump up the evidence. Is there any supernatural claim that you are almost certain is not true?
So daft. Does my leprechaun exist? Could it be observed and tested by a range of independent witnesses?
Supernatural = something that acts outside the 'laws of nature' (which we don't fully comprehend).
Evidence? If we don't fully understand the 'laws of nature' would we be able to appreciate or even perceive the evidence or lack of it?
I think it was the 'merely your opinion that I took objection to. They either exist or they don't. It's not like a "is Elvis music good?" question
can't stand it myself It's a yes or a no. How do we decide if something exists or not? Via evidence, not opinion.
You find me an independent witness first...
or someone who knew how to test or had the 'correct' perception in terms of observing, or could interpret the results.
Okay, I see your point more now, however by saying the person who believes should stump up evidence - surely the person who does not believe should do so also.
To be fair, the OP said she believes she may have seen a ghost and was asking for thoughts etc - she wasn't saying "fact they exist" like the poster who I had that one issue with was.
Is there any supernatural claim that you are almost certain is not true? I'm sure there are many - again I don't understand your pov regarding my opinion - I have not said I believe in ghosts/the supernatural or I do not, as I said I don't know. They are not proven, they are not unproven (on the whole). Yes there are many explanations which I think can usually explain ghostly supernatural phenomenon in a more scientific way that "dead person wandering around".
Again, my ONLY point and issues was with a post that that said something was a FACT when we don't know for sure. I don't know how much I can simplify that, or really why there is a problem with that.
Anyway i'm off to prepare for the zombie apocalypse!
Seriously the 'leprechaun' exists if people see it, albeit as a disorder.
I choose to apply the same logic and reasoning to everything about the world. I don't like to make stuff up. if I don't reject all claims that have no evidence, but accept the ones I like or any other reason then I lose my intellectual integrity,
So someone without the disorder can observe the leprechaun? I appreciate someone may think it exists but it either exists or it doesn't.
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