Wiccans! Help needed ...

[Jux]

DD is 12, and is Wiccan. She is also quite a disturbed child due to a large number of bereavements we suffered in a short space of time when she was younger (and between December and February we had 4 more).

She is searching desperately for a way through. I know very little about Wicca; I've read a couple of books which dd has passed my way.

We are in the south west. Does anyone know of anyone who could mentor dd? I don't necessarily mean face to face, over the net would be fine. I mean really, just give her a bit of advice when she's having a tough time, point her in the direction of trustworthy sites and so on.

She is vulnerable and impressionable, and I (we) need someone sensible, responsible.

Can anyone help? I would be so grateful. I am really out of my depth.

[ScorpionQueen]

Hi, I'm sorry she is going through such a tough time (and you too).

I don't know anyone personally but the ladies in Glastonbury who run the Wiccan type shops seem lovely- really caring and friendly. I bet they'd be happy to help. You could go there together for a look (they do sell lovely things) and get chatting while DD browses. It's a lovely place to visit too and would be a nice day for you both.

There is one shop with a model of an old lady just in the doorway that springs to mind. No idea what it's called, it's on the high street.

[Earthymama]

Just got back from Glastonbury, It always soothes my spirit. I follow the Path of the Goddess, with strong leanings towards HedgeWitchery

I second the idea of a visit there, DD will see that she is not alone.

The Goddess and the Green Man is a great shop, with a warm welcomimg vibe.

DD will sense where to go when she is there.

You can visit Chalice Well Peace Garden, the guiding philosophy is One Source, Many Paths and true calm can be found there.

The Goddess Temple is open every day 12 - 4pm, you will be able to meditate there with DD, it is a very safe place to explore one's emotions. At the moment it is full of the light and colours of Spring time. The Melissas there will be happy to talk to DD.

As for books, can I recommend Teen Goddess by Catherine Wishart and Goddess Bless by Sirona Knight? You can buy them second hand in bookshops in Glastonbury.

DD is lucky that you are so accepting and supportive. You can make sure that she is safe and protected in this difficult time.

Can you contact your local Youth Service too, for some support with the bereavements? Youth Workers are amazing listeners and can achieve great rapport with young people.

Many Blessings to you and your daughter.

[Jux]

Thank you both so much. Thanks for the recommendations of books, very useful.

Earthymama, dd utterly refuses to go to a counsellor of any type; at one point a couple of years ago she was seeing a counsellor but then absolutely refused to continue going. She says it makes her feel helpless and incapable and powerless.

Someone advised her to go to a site called Kwa Angels. Do you know anything of that? To me (unbeliever that I am) it looks harmless and possibly helpful, but how can I tell?

We met someone running a shop in our nearest town last week, who said he'd do healing with her, but (after I'd made an appt for her) he started going on about forces of darkness massing, him having a major battle on his hands, he's already tied up the dark spirit influencing an MP and the spirit's very angry so he has a major fight on his hands....... TBH, he sounded absolutely bats, and I'm not sure that even if it's true, he would be the best person to help dd. He seemed more likely to make things worse.

We were going to take dd to Avebury last week (and maybe Glasto as well), but then the Council sent workmen round to do stuff and they're still working here, so we couldn't get away in the end.

I shall ask dh if he can drive us to Glastonbury at the w/e, or at least Avebury. If we get as far as Glastonbury we'll look for those particular places. Thank you.

[RedMolly]

I'm really sorry to hear that your daughter is having a difficult time. I read your post earlier but went to think about what to say before posting. Do you want your daughter to have some help with the grieving process and trying to understand this from a wiccan viewpoint, or do you want someone to help her develop in her chosen tradition more long term?

What i had decided to say to you was to take great care, but having read your last post i think you may have already learned that just because someone follows a more esoteric path does not mean that they should be trusted with the wellbeing and spiritual development of a vulnerable young girl. Without wishing to offend anyone, running a shop does not qualify someone to deal with these kind of issues. Of course there are plenty of folk in glasto who could put you in touch with any number of healers, covens, shamans, but as a mother who admits not knowing much about this sphere, how can you judge who who may help and who may (albeit unwittingly) damage her further?

I've no axe to grind here - i followed the wiccan tradition for 20+ years until my beliefs moved more towards the vedic traditions. It is a shame counselling didn't help her, but maybe a different counsellor or type of therapy may help, if she can be persuaded to try - i can't imagine what kind of treatment she was having that made her feel so bad, though of course sometimes you have to go through the pain to come out the otherside. If she is more drawn to alternative therapies then Reiki may be worth a go.

Have you or she had a look at the Pagan Federation site? They have district groups who organise local events throughout the year, which would give her the opportunity to meet more like-minded people, if you were happy to take her. As you're in the south west i would also recommend taking her to the fantastic Museum of Witchcraft at Boscastle (though some exhibits are a bit ...err...adult!) - they should also be able to give you some pointers. Hth.

[Jux]

Thank you RedMolly. Yes, you might say I've had a baptism by fire. I had been lulled into a false sense of security as the people who used to run the shop were exactly the sort of people I had hoped for. We went in expecting to see them, and found everything changed.

Have had a chat with dh, who has agreed to Glastonbury at the w/e (this is fairly gobsmacking in itself); also to dd, who was not that enamoured of the guy, and once I'd explained my feelings and we'd had some discussion, agreed that finding someone in Glastonbury would be better.

I have passed on your suggestion of Pagan Federation site and she is looking at it now.

[RedMolly]

I wondered if your daughter has come across UK Pagan Links website? They have a section of links to teen pagan websites and chatrooms - might give her some peer to peer support - can't vouch for them though as i'm not exactly their target demographic! Also, maybe if there are any particular questions she has you could post them here - there seems to be quite a number of wiccans and others walking a magical path who frequent this bit of mn who would only be too happy to help. If there's anything else I can add just ask - i'll keep an eye out for updates.

[Jux]

Thank you Molly, that is fab.

[RedMolly]

Really glad to help. Also wanted to say it is wonderful that you are supporting her in this. I wanted to suggest a couple of books as well.

These two are (i think) the best for someone following the wiccan tradition on their own;
Wicca: A guide for the solitary practitioner (Scott Cunningham)
A Witch Alone: 13 moons to master natural magic (Marian Green)

If she is interested in working with a coven in the future a fantastic guide to ritual magic is The Spiral Dance by Starhawk - there's also some really good passages about the life-death-rebirth cycle that may help her.

I also thought another nice way to encourage and support her may be to take her out to places of power, of which we have an abundance in the west country. Something I did when I was around her age was to take photos and keep a diary of how I perceived the energies of the place and my feelings about them, which was a good way of connecting with earth energies. It's something you can do as a family - just take a picnic and have a relax in the sun and leave her to it. Try megalithic.co.uk or sacred sites in somerset (for example) for some ideas, or Julian Cope's book The Modern Antiquarian is a fantastic resource.

[RedMolly]

Sorry Jux. I of course acknowledge that you are planning to take her to Glastonbury and Avebury. I was meaning small, out of the way places - Glasto is undoubtably special but it is a bit new age theme park. If you go to Avebury, try to go to West Kennet long barrow as well - that is very special, especially if you can go on a quiet day.

[Jux]

No problem. DH said it was theme-park too, and the last time I was there - about 15 years ago, it was most of the way there.

[Jux]

The Holy Thorn tree has just been vandalised again, apparently.

[Earthymama]

Isn't it funny how we can visit the same place and have such different experiences?
(I'm not having a go, just thinking aloud, I guess)
When I go to Glastonbury I move into a different space. I can access that place at home but with more effort.
I find I can clear my thoughts, meditate, just be myself more easily.
I just acknowledge and move on from the things that aren't part of my path but I so happy that those things are there for those who need them. I find that most people take a One Source, Many Paths approach.
I have been to the most fascinating lectures and talks, attended workshops with Starhawk, Vikki Noble, susanna Budapest, walked in the most beautiful of places, had the best vegetarian food, met interesting and open minded people who have become dear friends, listened and danced to great music, met political heroes, film stars, leaders of the environmental movement ......
And all this in a market town where I can walk down the main street to buy locally sourced organic food, buy homemade cake, clipper tea, Beauty without Cruelty Makeup, real ale, local cider. But I spent hardly anything this time as I'm on a tight budget, just walked around and enjoyed the peace and beauty.
And people talk about spirituality as normally as the price of fish.
None of this is available where I live; cheese and onion crisps are the veggie option in my local shop and there are 3 evangelical Christian churches in this tiny community.
I hope your DD finds 'my' Glastonbury this weekend. It is there honestly!
And I don't work for the tourist board!!

[Jux]

Well, tbh, I think when I was there last time, that we didn't go to the right places. DH was a bit scathing about it - though he had wanted to go. We were both born in the 50s though not old enough to join in the 'hippy' movement, we remember it very well and what it was trying to change the world to. He is really - almost personally - disappointed that so many of those people who preached peace and love are now movers and shakers in big biz. I think his view of Glastonbury, and most other significant places, events etc, is highly coloured by the "way it has all turned out" as it were. We were fairly newly married when we went to G and I think his sadness and, well, disgust, influenced my perception too. We've been married so long now that that doesn't happen much any more!

Mind you, if it's peeing down like it is today there's no way dh will go anywhere.

[worldgonecrazy]

I am a Wiccan. Firstly, your daughter is too young to be a Wiccan. It is an initiatory mystery tradition and no genuine legitimate coven will take on anyone under the age of 18. Some even put an age limit of 25 or older. Wicca is a bit like the Masons or Catholicism - until you've been initiated you aren't 'it'.

That doesn't mean that your daughter can't learn about Wicca and paganism in general. That will give her a very good grounding when and if she does want to start looking for a group to join. There are also other areas which she may find offer a fulfilling area of study whilst she's in her teenage years - things such as astronomy and astrology, history, gardening and outdoor pursuits, etc.

The Children of Artemis website may be a good starting point, though they can veer towards what is known within Paganism as 'fluffiness'. There are a lot of younger people on that site and they offer each other support. If you're daughter is sensible she will soon learn to differentiate between the pink fluffy unicorns and the more spiritual aspects. The Pagan Federation are also a good first point of contact.

There are a lot of pagans in the South West, some sensible, some a little bit more, erm ..... eccentric (!)

I dislike the town centre in Glastonbury, but Chalice Well is lovely (run by Christians but respectful of other beliefs) and the Tor is lovely if the local sewer-scum haven't been using the tower as a toilet.

The Witchcraft Museum in Boscastle is run by very sensible pagans and they may be able to help if you're in the area.

If you're in Devon/Cornwall then the local Pagan Federation page is here I don't recognise any of the names given as moot contacts and the information may be out of date, but perhaps someone there can help you.

If you're in the Wessex (Bristol/Gloucester/Bath) area then the Pagan Federation link is here I recognise some of the names and they are very down to earth and sensible.

I'm sorry your daughter is having a tough time of it. There are plenty of spiritual counsellors, shamans, soul retrieval specialists, etc. but I guess that most of them would be wary of taking on someone so young as a patient. "Counsellor" is an unprotected title - that means that anyone can call themselves a counsellor and set up in business, so do be careful.

The Wiccan teachings around death are that our loved ones go for a period of rest before reincarnation. The Hallows prayer (published so I'm not giving anything away) says that we shall "meet, and know, and remember and love them once again".

If I can be of any further help then please drop me a PM and I will do my best to help.

[Jux]

Worldgonecrazy, she's just discovered that she can't be initiated until she's 18 and is very cross about it, though I admit that I was relieved. She doesn't want to join a coven at the moment, so that's not a problem I have to worry about. She's a sensible girl, but just coming into those lovely teen years where hormones and madness take over for a while; therefore I have to be pretty vigilant about her contact with those 'fluffy' or eccentric types you mentioned

I will have a look at those sites, and see if this guy's name is on one of them. I am more sure, having read your post, that he is probably best avoided atm.

Thank you so much for your offer.

[RedMolly]

I have to (respectfully) disagree with a couple of things worldgonecrazy has said. Regarding Glastonbury, there are some wonderful places and people like those mentioned, but what i dislike is the commercialisation of the spiritual. I grew up around there and find you have to look harder to find the things that made it special in the first place. But, as they say, one mans mock duck.....

worldgonecrazy - have you been up South Brent Tor on Dartmor? Just wondered what you thought about it. To me it is as special as Glastonbury Tor but without the hordes and the wee!

I also don't agree with what you said about initiation. Completely with you on age and coven work, but not all wiccan paths are initatory. Many chose a solitary path and this is equally valid - as you say, one source, many paths. I grew up reading about Alexandrian and Gardnerian witches and thought that unless I was accepted into a group like that then I wasn't a 'proper' witch. I subsequently went down both paths ( at different times, obviously!). I have come out the other end not wishing to call myself wiccan or anything else for that matter. It is still the core of my spiritual life but i feel more free to go where the spirit takes me without giving myself a label. I would agree that 12 is quite young to want to be commiting youself to a tradition, when there is so much to learn and discover, and paths which she may not know even exit as yet. I think learning about the natural world is very sound advice - gathering your ingredients is quite hard if you can't identify the plants!

Jux - as i'm sure is becoming apparent, asking someone to mentor your daughter is not an easy thing, as even within the same tradition there are many diverse opinions.

[worldgonecrazy]

Sorry RedMolly, I also have to respectfully disagree with you. There are people out there that call themselves wiccan and use Wiccan writings, but they are not wiccan and would not be recognised as Wiccan by Wiccans.

I don't want to get into a debate but I would say that reading out the prayers and words used to create a Catholic Priest does not make you a Priest, just as going around calling yourself a Mason, doing funny handshakes and rolling up one trouser leg doesn't make you a Mason.

Of course you don't need to be Alexandrian or Gardnerian to be a proper 'witch' but you do to be a Wiccan. I'm sure over the years you have learned that whilst every Wiccan is a witch, not every witch is a Wiccan? All anyone needs to do to be a proper 'witch' is to practise witchcraft :)

I'm not sure if you read what I wrote about Glastonbury? I said I actually dislike the town centre, and don't even get me started on courses charging thousands of pounds to become a 'priestess of the Goddess' and the goddesses which have been invented over the last decade.

Yes we have visited South Brent tor, we've been to a lot of sacred sites, some special, some not so special. My most powerful spiritual experiences haven't been based on location, so I tend to just enjoy sacred sites in a more relaxed manner rather than looking for or expecting a spiritual experience at them.

[RedMolly]

We will have to agree to disagree i think! You are right that if you want to be a Catholic Priest you have to be initiated. However, you can be a Bhuddist without being initiated as a Bhuddist monk. If you want to be part of a group then you will of course be initiated into that group, while if you want to dedicate youself to the God and Godess, celebrate the sabbats and esbats, and live with magic at the centre of your life and call yourself a wiccan then you are free to do so. If you like, Catholics believe a Priest is needed to intervene on their behalf. Quakers believe their relationship with God is direct. They are both Christians.

As far as i know there are no sacred text laying out the wiccan law, other than those written by the many different groups that follow them, mostly in the last 50 years or so. I have been involved with two covens, both wiccan, both very different in their energies and practice - neither was right or wrong - just different.

I am truly happy if you have found what you need with a coven worldgonecrazy, but the kind of wicca you describe makes it sound like if you don't want to play by our rules then you can't play at all. I still have friends who are coven witches and know they don't share this view. I hope we can both respect each others standpoint. I'd be interested to know if there are any solitary practitioners out there who'd like to express an opinion.

Jux - if anyone was prepared to initiate your daughter at her age - run a mile!

[worldgonecrazy]

Nope, never said you couldn't play, just that you couldn't be Wiccan. I said Wicca was like Catholocism. You can't actually be a Catholic without initiation, no matter whether you call yourself a Catholic. The Priest analogy was a bit of a poor one to use - mea culpa.

if you want to dedicate youself to the God and Godess, celebrate the sabbats and esbats, and live with magic at the centre of your life and call yourself a wiccan then you are free to do so.

I agree, but as I said earlier, calling yourself a wiccan doesn't make you one.

[RedMolly]

worldgonecrazy - i'm reluctant to keep on at this as i'm sure the op doesn't want this to become a thread about coven v solitary and what they call themselves, but maybe it is useful for her to see that there are different stands out there, and it isn't simply a case of finding someone who calls themselves Wiccan agreeing to mentor her daughter.

Would you be happy to post where your definition of Wicca and it's laws come from, or rather where they originated? I'm genuinely interested in what you have to say, because, like I said, i've never come across anything that precluded someone who identified themselves as Wiccan calling themselves Wiccan if they so choose. I would really like to know. The standard Wiccan rede certainly doesn't preclude it, and beyond that i've yet to come across anything that didn't originate with the coven.

I am not at all critical of your chosen path, but a bit taken aback at how vehement you are about who uses the name.

[Codandchops]

Hello Jux, I used to follow a pagan path and found great peace in parts of Glastonbury. Glastonbury can be a bit commercial but the Goddess Temple is a lovely place to meditate. The people there are very friendly and supportive too.

I'd also second the Scott Cunningham book "Wicca: A Guide for the Solitary Practitioner". It's a really easy read which will give your DD the basics.
The Children of Artemis site is also good but can (as others have said) be prone to fluffy falseness

The Pagan Federation is fabulous though.

Although I no longer follow a Pagan path ( am now a full blown Catholic lol) I still have friends who are Pagan.

My sister in law follows an Earth based pagan tradition called Reclaiming which run groups and courses. They would accept your DD on courses as long as you also came along to provide support, supervision and guidance (for her protection).

She doesn't need to think about Initiation just yet, just read and think about it all. At her age she could well go through several changes of mind over the next few years hence Initiation is not advisable just yet.

[worldgonecrazy]

Would you be happy to post where your definition of Wicca and it's laws come from, or rather where they originated? I'm genuinely interested in what you have to say, because, like I said, i've never come across anything that precluded someone who identified themselves as Wiccan calling themselves Wiccan if they so choose. I would really like to know. The standard Wiccan rede certainly doesn't preclude it, and beyond that i've yet to come across anything that didn't originate with the coven.

Wicca is an initiatory mystery religion invented by Gerald Gardner in the mid 20th century. He made the rules. All Wiccan covens, including the Alexandrian ones, can be traced back to Gerald Gardner.

There is absolutely nothing to preclude anyone giving themselves the moniker of "wiccan", just as anyone can go around calling themselves a "stapler" or an "orange" or "Queen of England". You can call yourself whatever you like, entirely up to you, doesn't mean that you are what you are calling yourself though.

[worldgonecrazy]

p.s. sorry for the thread hijack!

[Jux]

No prob; it's all educating me!

I had no idea Wicca was so recent. I thought it was as old as the hills, or at least pre-dated the Romans. I suppose I thought it was synonymous with Paganism, with perhaps a few adjustments, but there you go. I was brought up an RC, with very devout RC relatives, and am v ignorant about other religions.

[Codandchops]

My SIL loaned me a book called "Drawing Down the Moon" by Professor Ronald Hutton who looked at the origins of some pagan teachings. Fascinating if heavy going book, my SIL sees Wicca and Paganism as new religions and says it is exciting being part of their birth.

I suspect pre-Roman stuff was geared to seasons, moon phases and farming calendars. Interesting stuff and well worth your DD reading about.

Although I am Christian I feel many church traditions incorporated pagan traditions to make them acceptable when they were first introduced. Apart from Holy Communion based upon The Last Supper I have to wonder about other aspects of Mass in the Catholic church - all that Incense takes me right back in my head to Glastonbury High Street .