To ask you to please help these 2 little girls stay in the UK, they face FGM in Nigeria

(177 Posts)
Topaz25 Tue 22-Apr-14 21:18:30

This petition really moved me, please sign and share:
https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/uk-border-agency-please-review-the-fresh-evidence-submitted-for-afusat-saliu-s-asylum-case-properly

"Afusat Saliu, faces being returned to Nigeria. She has removal directions for 25th April. If she goes back, there is a real risk of forcible FGM on her daughters. She fled to the UK when her step-mother expressed a wish to have her daughter Bassy cut. Bassy will be four in May; two year old Rashidat was born in London - Afusat fled while she was heavily pregnant.

In Afusat's village, FGM is usually performed on babies, which is when Afusat herself was cut. If she is made to return and her family catch up with her, it is likely that she will be powerless to protect them from being mutilated. Afusat is also in danger as she escaped a forced marriage to a man 40 years her senior to whom her family is indebted."

McPhee Tue 22-Apr-14 21:19:54

signed x

SpiderNugent Tue 22-Apr-14 21:20:44

we cant save the whole world unfortunately

i am sure she doesnt need to go back to that particular village if she is not happy with it

no sorry wont be signing

2blackcats2 Tue 22-Apr-14 21:20:47

Done

Topaz25 Tue 22-Apr-14 21:22:02

It's not just that particular village that's the problem though is it?
"Nigeria, due to its large population, has the highest absolute number of female genital mutilation (FGM) worldwide, accounting for about one-quarter of the estimated 115–130 million circumcised women in the world."
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3507121/

Signed.

gordyslovesheep Tue 22-Apr-14 21:23:24

signed x

Ruushii Tue 22-Apr-14 21:24:03

I signer earlier. Its horrible.

yellowdinosauragain Tue 22-Apr-14 21:24:07

Signed

Ruushii Tue 22-Apr-14 21:24:10

Signed even!

Alisvolatpropiis Tue 22-Apr-14 21:24:23

I signed.

Harsh attitude spider. What does signing a petition cost you?

Youdontneedacriminallawyer Tue 22-Apr-14 21:25:43

would need to know more details before signing.

Topaz25 Tue 22-Apr-14 21:28:04
Impatientismymiddlename Tue 22-Apr-14 21:28:28

One quarter of 115 million women is around the size of the UKs female adult population (probably more) so as much as I am very tempted to sign the petition I am not going to. I feel terrible for not signing but I am concerned about the 'floodgate argument'. I hope that if these girls are at greater risk than other Nigerian girls then our home office will reach the correct decision when they assess the case. I think petitions are designed to make people feel guilty by only presenting the information that will prey on people's guilt and sympathy. I will be more open and willing to sign if I had some facts and figures rather than a 'guilt trip'.

Bicnod Tue 22-Apr-14 21:29:23

Signed.

WooWooOwl Tue 22-Apr-14 21:29:30

I need more details before signing too. Why were they refused asylum?

I also agree with the sentiment that we can't save the world. FGM is a horrible thing, but is so widespread that we can't possibly be responsible for providing for everyone in the world who is at risk from it.

Dementedhousewife Tue 22-Apr-14 21:29:35

Signed.

Lighthousekeeping Tue 22-Apr-14 21:30:25

Signed

FreudiansSlipper Tue 22-Apr-14 21:33:53

signed

yes FGM is a terrible thing, if by signing an online petition I may help stop just one young girl having this barbaric act performed on her that will cause her pain throughout her life I am more than willing to do so

we can not save the world but we can all try to make lives of others safer

gordyslovesheep Tue 22-Apr-14 21:38:55

fuck me ! No we can't 'save the world' but signing might save two tiny girls - what is wrong with people sad

Fairylea Tue 22-Apr-14 21:41:37

Signed.

No we can't save the world but 2 minutes to add your name to a page is a start.....!!

NurseyWursey Tue 22-Apr-14 21:41:51

Why were they denied asylum?

I'll sign of course but I think there's more than just this here and does it automatically mean any woman at risk of FGM should have asylum?

Topaz25 Tue 22-Apr-14 21:43:02

I tend to think 'we can't save the world but we can try,' rather than 'we can't save the world so why try?'

FreudiansSlipper Tue 22-Apr-14 21:43:14

they are not women hmm they are very very young girls

MooseyMouse Tue 22-Apr-14 21:44:18

Signed.

Stunned that some of you think it's not worth it.

Ruushii Tue 22-Apr-14 21:47:59

I don't know why anyone can read that and not want to help a two year old and four year old who could be sent back to a place where they will be mutilated. It's mind boggling.

guineapig1 Tue 22-Apr-14 21:48:31

Signed

Joules68 Tue 22-Apr-14 21:50:24

So who supports them all here in the uk?

Signed.

dementedma Tue 22-Apr-14 21:53:34

A man is walking along a beach after a storm. The high tide has washed up hundreds of thousands of starfish, which are now dying in the sun. He sees a figure in the distance, bending, straightening...and is intrigued. As he gets closer he sees that the second figure is another man, picking upm the starfish one at a time and throwing them back into the sea. It is backbreaking work. The first man laughs. " what pointless thing to do," he says, " there are hundreds of thousands of starfish washed up here. There is no way you can make a difference to them all."
The second man throws another starfish into the sea and watches it sink to safety. "Maybe not," he says," but I made a difference to that one."

Topaz25 Tue 22-Apr-14 21:54:44

Afusat Saliu shows a strong willingness to work and contribute to her community by volunteering with the Refugee Council and other organisations and helping out at her daughter's school so she should be able to get paid work when her immigration status is sorted out.

Alisvolatpropiis Tue 22-Apr-14 21:55:14

Whatever reason they've been denied asylum, given the minority who have been granted it on human rights grounds despite being rapists,murderers,paedophiles...what could this woman and her children have done?

What could they have done to make you not want to at least try to protect them?

Norem Tue 22-Apr-14 21:56:07

Signed, I am ashamed to say that as a midwife here In UK I only truly understood the prevelance and effects of fgm recently.
It makes my blood boil sad

Alisvolatpropiis Tue 22-Apr-14 21:56:07

Joules

Define "them all"

Ilovexmastime Tue 22-Apr-14 21:56:54

Signed.

Norem Tue 22-Apr-14 21:57:33

Dementedma, spot on.

NatashaGurdin Tue 22-Apr-14 21:57:39

I've signed. Surely this situation is exactly what asylum is for?

HotCrossBunting Tue 22-Apr-14 21:58:08

I've signed it and I'll share the link.

Gurnie Tue 22-Apr-14 21:58:56

Signed.

Topaz25 Tue 22-Apr-14 22:00:38

NatashaGurdin That's exactly what I thought, this isn't setting some new precedent, asylum has always been intended to protect those at risk of violence in their home country.

eightyearsonhere Tue 22-Apr-14 22:02:58

I know there have been lots of cases such as this one and "fear that FGM MAY happen" by extended family is not a reason for asylum.
The mother does not have to return to her home village, Nigeria is a very large country.

nickelbabe Tue 22-Apr-14 22:05:35

I will never understand the argument "you can't save everybody so what's the point trying to save 2?"
wtf is wrong with you?!

you know that most people go by the rule "if you can save one person, it's as if you've saved the whole world" ?

I signed it earlier. we need to make a proper stand against FGM. it's illegal for it to be performed in.this cointry or against citizens of this country, but it's very rarely prosecuted, the first being this year
and I personally believe that if one of them has been born in this country then they should both be protected.

DamnBamboo Tue 22-Apr-14 22:06:28

Having learned a little more about this over the coming weeks, if she has been refused asylum then her case will have been thoroughly investigated.

I just don't get why everybody assumes that the decision not to grant it, is the wrong one! As if the people investigating this won't also be personally touched by the fact that two young girls are involved.

FreudiansSlipper Tue 22-Apr-14 22:06:51

and on the itv news there is a report of over 200 school girls missing, feared abducted in Nigeria by extremists

how safe are young girls in this country, if that was in any European country it would be headline news

nickelbabe Tue 22-Apr-14 22:09:02

(my quote comes from the Talmud)

Joules68 Tue 22-Apr-14 22:11:39

Define 'them all' ? Why? There's the 3 of them as far as I'm aware?
Or am I wrong?

ProcessYellowC Tue 22-Apr-14 22:11:48

Signed.

Alisvolatpropiis Tue 22-Apr-14 22:11:54

Freudian

I saw that on the news this evening and was opened mouthed in horror.

I suppose with headline news, it can be related to proximity. E.g if something like that happened in France it might not make headline news outside of Europe, ditto Wales.

That doesn't make it less important and as the world is becoming increasingly global, we do hear about these things and we do care.

Alisvolatpropiis Tue 22-Apr-14 22:13:30

No you're not joules.

Why do you assume their mum won't go on to support them? That the little girls will grow up get jobs/go uni and eventually get jobs?

FreudiansSlipper Tue 22-Apr-14 22:14:35

really you do not think we would hear about it if it happened in the states?

That starfish anaolgy (is that the right word? thick MNer here!) is so apt.

WooWooOwl Tue 22-Apr-14 22:15:23

To all those asking 'what the fuck is wrong with you' for being reluctant to sign a petition without knowing any details about a case - it puzzles me why anyone would sign anything without having more details.

The fact that so far the people involved here have been refused asylum says something. I appreciate that their case may have not been handled well, but without knowing either way, I don't want to sign. If people want to post more details on this thread, then I'll read them.

Ruushii Tue 22-Apr-14 22:17:53

I'd rather whack my name with less detail on the off chance it could help two children not be mutilated than not sign just because the details aren't there. I can't think of details off the top of my head that would stop me wanting to help people in this situation.

Joules68 Tue 22-Apr-14 22:20:57

Ha ha Alis where have I assumed anything? I asked a question lovey! Are you trying to cause an argument cos I ain't biting

nickelbabe Tue 22-Apr-14 22:22:11

I've read the i

nickelbabe Tue 22-Apr-14 22:23:41

I've read the information.

the petition just asks for the case to be looked at again, that's all

DamnBamboo Tue 22-Apr-14 22:24:55

There is nothing wrong with people not signing this petition, if they don't feel they have enough information.

Again, I would like to know why people think that for some reason the immigration officers have it all wrong and that really this family should be staying.

If there case has been assessed and a real risk of persecution and/or violence is not deemed to be present, why on earth would they, or should they, be granted asylum?

ProcessYellowC Tue 22-Apr-14 22:27:00

Ruushii puts it perfectly for me. Often I don't sign petitions that are shoved in my face with no facts, but there is no downside to asking the home office to review the case. The petition isn't saying "let them stay" but just please reconsider the evidence before deportation.

FreudiansSlipper Tue 22-Apr-14 22:27:35

simply because FGM is not considered that much of an important issue because it happens to girls

we only need to look at what has happened here to see that. authorities are aware hundred's of young girls return to their parents home country every year and have this barbaric act performed on them

bellediva Tue 22-Apr-14 22:28:42

Signed

DamnBamboo Tue 22-Apr-14 22:30:43

Of course there is a downside to it.
There are not infinite resources for this type of thing and another genuine asylum's seekers case may not be assessed in due course, which may have other knock-on effects, if this one is assessed again.

I think it's ridiculous the way everybody assumes that this is unjust and that the officials 'must be wrong'

zippey Tue 22-Apr-14 22:31:02

Signed

DamnBamboo Tue 22-Apr-14 22:31:55

hang on freudian are you saying that the fact that they weren't granted asylum is because they are girls?

SuburbanRhonda Tue 22-Apr-14 22:34:07

bamboo, you are lucky to have so much faith in the Border Agency when they examine these cases that you believe they are incapable of making a mistake.

However, as this petition is to request that the Home Office reviews new evidence to support their right to stay rather than to demand that the decision to deport them be overturned, based on inadequate supporting information, do you still believe the case should not even be reviewed?

Nestabee Tue 22-Apr-14 22:37:11

Is there a yearly quota for asylum seekers?

Just wondering if this affects whether people may lose their cases for asylum.

FreudiansSlipper Tue 22-Apr-14 22:38:18

no I am saying that FGM is not taken seriously enough

why because it is performed on girls/women. are you not aware of the gender inequality

DamnBamboo Tue 22-Apr-14 22:39:09

I'm never said I did have faith in the border agency and I also didn't say that they don't make mistakes.
I'm just wondering why everybody clearly has no faith in them at all.

I find it bizarre that people that are saying that they are signing because they might be able to help two little girls yet they don't think for one second that the people investigating this wouldn't also want to help two little girls and would be in a very strong position to do so had it been a possibility.

Alisvolatpropiis Tue 22-Apr-14 22:39:36

No joules, I was asking as question. You need not be so touchy.

Nennypops Tue 22-Apr-14 22:40:02

I also agree with the sentiment that we can't save the world. FGM is a horrible thing, but is so widespread that we can't possibly be responsible for providing for everyone in the world who is at risk from it.

Just thinking how that would have played out in the 1930s. "Concentration camps are horrible things, but anti-Semitism is so widespread that we can't possibly be responsible for providing for everyone in the world who is at risk from it." ... And the 6 million who died become 7 million.

Sometimes Godwin's Law works.

DamnBamboo Tue 22-Apr-14 22:42:25

P.s for the record I signed this (did so before this thread came about)... I just find the attitudes towards those who chose not to sign, for the aforementioned reasons, very bizarre.

Nennypops Tue 22-Apr-14 22:45:30

it puzzles me why anyone would sign anything without having more details.

This petition simply asks the Home Office to review the case. Do you seriously think that you do not have enough facts to justify supporting even that much? The point is that the Home Office will be asked to look again at the facts; if you want more, there is quite a bit of information out there, both about FGM in Nigeria and about this case in particular.

FreudiansSlipper Tue 22-Apr-14 22:47:55

because I guess many thankfully can not get their head around not wanting to try and help two young girls from being mutilated

SinisterBuggyMonth Tue 22-Apr-14 22:52:11

Signed. There was more than enough info on there for me.

thegreylady Tue 22-Apr-14 22:52:56

Signed, this matters.

bochead Tue 22-Apr-14 23:12:45

This matters. Women matter.

If we cannot offer asylum to two babies in order to prevent them being mutilated in such a grotesque way then WTF are we doing even attempting to call ourselves a civilised country for? We allow foreign criminals to stay here because of their human rights but refuse to protect an innocent 4 year old and a newborn?

FFS - talk about needing to sort out our priorities!!!!!!!!!!! What exactly do we as a coherent society stand for? Would we be happy for this to be practiced upon our own children? It's very hard to retain any sense of pride in a nation that knowingly and willing sends two innocents to suffer this sort of fate.

If we accept and tolerate this deportation then we knowingly collude in the victims torture. I am not happy to live with that upon my conscience, and am left feeling terribly ashamed of the country I am raising my child in. Have we really become so selfish that we've sunk this low as a collective?

We have to send out a clear message that we, as a society find this practice grotesque, horrific, abhorrent and utterly unacceptable. We can start by protecting the babies on our shores and throwing the legal system's book at any adult who attempts to abuse a child in such a manner here in the UK.

HeartShapedBox Tue 22-Apr-14 23:15:35

signed and shared on fb.

WooWooOwl Tue 22-Apr-14 23:16:36

Do you seriously think that you do not have enough facts to justify supporting even that much?

Not from what's on the thread or the first link, no. How do I know whether the new evidence adds anything to the case? It might, but it might not. Cases would never be dealt with if they could be reopened automatically on what might be flimsy evidence, and there aren't the resources to keep every case open indefinitely just in case something else crops up.

livingatheendofthewall Tue 22-Apr-14 23:30:06

Signed. Those who haven't have obviously not clicked on the link. How could you see those two tiny innocent girls and not sign???

gordyslovesheep Tue 22-Apr-14 23:33:28

this

lionheart Tue 22-Apr-14 23:43:04

Signed, of course.

FloozeyLoozey Tue 22-Apr-14 23:47:08

Aren't people supposed to seek asylum in the first safe country they reach? Geographically it can't have been britain, so why are they here and why have they become our responsibility and not another country's?

gordyslovesheep Tue 22-Apr-14 23:51:33

maybe because Nigeria was once a British colonial country ...so they identify with Britain and feel safe here

still lets let that issue cloud the possible maiming or death of two small children hmm

ThingsThatShine Tue 22-Apr-14 23:59:42

Signed

Good luck to them

Nennypops Wed 23-Apr-14 00:01:27

Aren't people supposed to seek asylum in the first safe country they reach?

Not that old chestnut. That's a doctrine that comes from the days before aeroplanes were invented, and it's a misconception. Asylum seekers tend to get out by whatever means they can, and if they can get on a plane it tends to be the case that the pilot sort of insists on carrying on to the plane's destination.

Nennypops Wed 23-Apr-14 00:05:53

How do I know whether the new evidence adds anything to the case? It might, but it might not. Cases would never be dealt with if they could be reopened automatically on what might be flimsy evidence, and there aren't the resources to keep every case open indefinitely just in case something else crops up.

What does it matter whether you know? The petition simply asks the Home Office to look at it again. On the one hand, you have two little girls at known risk of major mutilation; on the other, we have Home Office officials at risk of spending a couple more hours considering their case. Isn't it a no-brainer?

The petition doesn't ask that the case be reopened "automatically", nor that it be kept open indefinitely just in case something else crops up.

If you don't want to sign, don't, but these excuses are sounding just a bit desperate.

thebodydoestricks Wed 23-Apr-14 00:12:09

Signed of course.

Redhead4 Wed 23-Apr-14 00:16:27

I won't be signing.

There is more to it and we don't know the reasons why she has been given until the 25th to return.

Are we going to advertise Britain as a 'safe place' for all girls who face FGM?!

gordyslovesheep Wed 23-Apr-14 00:20:10

Are we going to advertise Britain as a 'safe place' for all girls who face FGM

why not? wouldn't that be something to be proud of?

Nennypops Wed 23-Apr-14 00:21:04

Are we going to advertise Britain as a 'safe place' for all girls who face FGM?!

Fine by me.

Extrapolating again: back in the 1930s there were certain charmers who were outraged at the fact that we were advertising Britain as a 'safe place' for German Jews. Should we take it that you would have agreed with them?

bochead Wed 23-Apr-14 00:57:44

We should advertise Britain as a safe place for all girls who face FGM - do you understand just how heinous a crime it is?

I find it truly shocking that we, who employ lunch box police while at the same time being content to allow innocent children that are here, today on our soil, to be maimed in this manner.

For me it makes a complete & total mockery of our child protection system. If we will not take a stand to prevent this practice when we are given the opportunity to do so on a platter; than we may as well close every SS office and family court in the nation and save the tax payer a fortune in the process!

As for human rights, we are proving that we believe these poor babies to be subhuman and therefore not worthy of any human rights. These are not economic migrants, they are fleeing persecution of the worst kind, and refugees in the most fundamental sense.

Evil is only possible if the good stand back and do nothing and this is a truly evil practice. I would hope and pray with everything I have, that should my own niece or grand daughter be faced with such horror, someone somewhere would show some compassion for her plight.

gingerchick Wed 23-Apr-14 01:18:05

Signed without a moments hesitation

Tenrec Wed 23-Apr-14 01:25:42

Signed. I've worked with a teen who underwent FGM as a younger child. You can't save everyone, but two children who are saved from mutilation is good enough for me.

MamaMumra Wed 23-Apr-14 01:44:13

Signed. Thanks for the post and link OP.

HicDraconis Wed 23-Apr-14 05:01:05

Signed. It reads as though some of the evidence for her asylum application was possibly overlooked. It will do no harm at all for the application to be re-looked at, taking into account the points the petition raises.

No, we can't offer every at-risk person a home in the UK. But we can try to make a difference to some!

oohdaddypig Wed 23-Apr-14 05:15:40

Signed, of course.

We can't save the whole world from FGM, or torture, or anything else. But by signing the petition we are, rightly, equating FGM to the other physical harms that prevent asylum seekers being deported.

Of course this is a drop in the ocean for all the children facing FGM but the alternative is for us to turn our backs altogether.

We can't save the works but we can make a little bit of a difference every day.

signed
"Are we going to advertise Britain as a 'safe place' for all girls who face FGM?!"
That would be lovely smile
I'd love such a message to go out. Unfortunately we are only at the stage of starting to prevent FGM on our own citizens.

Hairylegs47 Wed 23-Apr-14 06:18:36

I'm with this guy
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

“Nobody made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could do only a little.”
― Edmund Burke

Signed

cheekygeeky Wed 23-Apr-14 06:31:08

Signed. Just can't believe people are not signing. You could make a difference to these girls lives.

tinypumpkin Wed 23-Apr-14 06:36:35

Signed. My children are that age, just how is this acceptable in any country at any age? I truly hope this gets looked at and publicity helps.

tinypumpkin Wed 23-Apr-14 06:38:01

Totally agree with your quotes Hairylegs, I will remember those. Sometimes it is hard when you can do so little but as you say, everything matters.

Jesuisunepapillon Wed 23-Apr-14 07:17:54

Signed. Anything to prevent two little girls going through that. Most importantly, by signing you are showing the wider world that FGM won't be ignored any more, won't be tolerated, is something that is being talked about and which matters. Even if you don't care about this woman, show those who have been through this and who reside in England that we are listening and working to help future generations.

RuddyDuck Wed 23-Apr-14 07:30:30

Signed. And, as others have said, I would be very happy if everyone facing FGM was given asylum in the UK.

Motherinlawsdung Wed 23-Apr-14 08:00:33

Signed, no hesitation.

Redhead4 Wed 23-Apr-14 08:06:36

What about everyone else?

The girls who at 12 years old have arranged marriages and get pregnant to which their bodies can't cope so they suffer?

Or the people who have to walk 3 hours to get dirty water?

Or the people who are proven not guilty after they have an amputation due to stealing?

Or the babies who are abandoned by their mothers on the street because they can't afford to keep them?

I can't help but see the bigger picture, why would this Mum not fight tooth and nail for this injustice to her girls?

Why is it left to us to accommodate them?

Why us and not the nearest country to them?

Shall we advertise for all those people above?

What happens to our children? These all come over for a safe haven and our children suffer with houses, jobs and expense of living.

There is injustice in the world, I have raised thousands of pounds to try and help them but we can't accommodate all cases.

Topaz25 Wed 23-Apr-14 08:10:16

Why would this Mum not fight tooth and nail for this injustice to her girls?

What do you think she is doing by trying to escape this oppressive, abusive situation and create a better life for them? It sounds like you are blaming the victim by saying why doesn't she fight harder! She was mutilated by her family as a child and has now been forced into marriage to a much older man they are indebted to. She is a victim of abuse and she is fighting to try and prevent her children going through the same thing by escaping that situation!

Impatientismymiddlename Wed 23-Apr-14 08:10:59

Signed. And, as others have said, I would be very happy if everyone facing FGM was given asylum in the UK.

Where would we house them all? Educate them all? Give them medical care? How would we financially provide for them all? I don't know how many children face FGM every year, but given that 115 million worldwide are affected I'm not sure how anybody thinks we could logistically or practically have them all in Britain.
I will support any campaign to stop FGM across the world, but suggesting that we should bring them all to live in Britain is very unrealistic.

Impatientismymiddlename Wed 23-Apr-14 08:11:58

Redhead put it much better than I did.

Redhead4 Wed 23-Apr-14 08:14:29

Precisely impatient.

These people who have told them that they need to return, they are doing their job like you do everyday.

They are here illegally; so their job is to take action.

gordyslovesheep Wed 23-Apr-14 08:14:36

NIMBY hey hmm

Thankfully 95% of people aren't twats xxxx

LtColGrinch Wed 23-Apr-14 08:19:11

Nope, not signing that one. The system is creaking at the seams anyway without topping it up unnecessarily.

You think that the potential to stop two tiny children being mutilated is unnecessary? Wow. Signed.

FreudiansSlipper Wed 23-Apr-14 09:55:40

what happens to our children

the are protected by law stopping them being harmed in such a way, they have free health and education, we have a welfare system, we have opportunities open to us millions can only dream of

FreudiansSlipper Wed 23-Apr-14 09:56:17

health care...

Nennypops Wed 23-Apr-14 10:07:48

Redhead, provision for all those people you list can be dealt with under the normal laws on asylum. The point of the petition is simply that the Home Office should be asked to look at this issue again. What is wrong with that?

Impatientismymiddlename Wed 23-Apr-14 10:09:04

Our children might be protected by a law that prevents them being harmed in this way, but it doesn't stop it entirely. FGM does happen to British children.
Our children do have lots of opportunities and billions of children can only dream of having the same opportunities but can Britain be responsible for the education, health and welfare of billions of children worldwide? Can Britain financially afford to be the saviour of every disadvantage child in the world?
If we brought every child into Britain who was at risk of FGM what would that mean for the health, education and welfare of British children?

I am happy to support campaigns and donate money to help put an end to FGM worldwide, but I just don't think that we can sensibly argue that every child at risk of FGM can be accommodated within our borders.
If the OP had asked for donations towards a fund to help this family be kept safe when they returned to Nigeria then I would have happily contributed what I can afford.
I don't know why the home office have decided that this family should return home but they have made that decision and I would presume that they have their reasons for not granting asylum.

Does anybody follow up on failed asylum seekers after they have returned home? Do the campaigners try to maintain contact with the families so they can update the supporters? Do we have any statistics on what percentage of failed asylum seekers are harmed after they return home? Whilst I understand that these statistics would be very difficult to obtain I do think it is worthwhile somebody at least attempting to gather some information of this nature as it would help people to determine whether our home office does a good job or not when they make their decisions.

sashh Wed 23-Apr-14 10:15:15

Why is it left to us to accommodate them?

Why not? If Nigeria was suddenly empty of females don't you think it would change things?

Why did we accommodate children from the Kindertransport? What about Asians thrown out of Africa?

What about because it is the right thing to do?

Believe it or not we are not the only country in the world that offers asylum.

Yes completely sassh. If we said the uk offers asylum to children at riak of fgm it would be a political move.

summersoft Wed 23-Apr-14 10:31:30

Here is the wonderful charity FORWARD that works towards protecting women and children from FGM.

Hopefully one day people will not have to leave their mother country and all that they know to avoid this harmful practice.

link

FreudiansSlipper Wed 23-Apr-14 10:33:11

yes I am well aware that British girls are subjected to FGM and not enough is done to enforce the law but any stand that can be made to protect young girls in this country has to be made

we are not going to have a sudden influx of girls leaving their families and all they know who will come here to seek asylum, it just does not happen that way

Redhead4 Wed 23-Apr-14 10:35:17

What I find wrong about the petition is that if we grant them this then what about every other case in the UK?

Shall we review every single case that crosses our boarders? These people who have the responsibility who take action against people who come over illegally cannot take their stories to heart otherwise no one would leave.

We were not the first country they reached, they were safe within the countries they crossed to get here so why should we review this case?

And yes, if we allow them to stay here what about all the other women and children all over the world who are at risk of FGM? They will head here and it will bring even more strain to our economy that we cannot afford.

Yes our children have healthcare but look at the bigger picture here. We let all of these women and children come to our country including pregnant women who are carrying children at risk. Not long ago some were being turned away from maternity wards in the UK due to lack of space, would you be saying the same if that was your daughter who needed a room to give birth in?

What about a family member who desperately needed a transplant but had to be on a waiting list so long due to the fact that most people in this country think with their hearts other than their heads? Would you say the same if your family member had to wait twice as long because x from this country and y from this country came over because they knew we would accept them?

When does it stop?

I have a heart, I feel desperately sorry for them girls and I have raised thousands of pounds to try and help countries who need it but I am not willing to take a chance with my children's future.

Impatientismymiddlename Wed 23-Apr-14 10:38:01

I found this link that estimates that 3 million girls face FGM in Africa alone every year.

www.who.int/reproductivehealth/topics/fgm/prevalence/en/

I will be donating to an organisation which helps stop FGM in the countries affected, but I will not be signing the petition because (perhaps foolishly) I rely on our home office to make accurate decisions on granting asylum.

FreudiansSlipper Wed 23-Apr-14 10:38:59

why tell us that you do so much for charity what has that got to do with the debate

Impatientismymiddlename Wed 23-Apr-14 10:39:48

If we bring 3 million children to Britain every year (as someone suggested we should bring all potential victims to Britain) how long would it be before we cannot cope? How long before our education, health and welfare systems crumble?

Redhead4 Wed 23-Apr-14 10:41:40

Because I think in order to help them we should look more into donating to their country and charities who are fighting against FGM rather than keep them here.

FreudiansSlipper Wed 23-Apr-14 10:42:15

it is not going to happen

like Rivers of Blood never transpired. and yes I do know he never actually said those words

pizzachickenhotforyou Wed 23-Apr-14 10:42:45

We can't save the world so I don't care if two little babies are butchered? Wtf?

MrsD0nnaLyman Wed 23-Apr-14 10:47:40

It is a criminal offence (although not one yet prosecuted) to remove children from the uk to undergo FGM abroad.

Yet our government is doing this forcibly. Just awful.

Impatientismymiddlename Wed 23-Apr-14 10:48:11

But we don't know that they will be butchered, because we don't know what information the home office have used to make their decision.

caruthers Wed 23-Apr-14 11:01:08

If this case has been looked at and has been given due consideration then for me I would be happy to allow the law to take its course.

Topaz25 Wed 23-Apr-14 11:13:29

I am not willing to take a chance with my children's future.

You do realise these children are just like your children? They are innocent, defenceless children just like yours. The only difference is, you and your children were lucky enough to be born in a country where you have basic human rights. Or you could be that frightened mother fighting to save her children from unimaginable abuse. We all could. We got lucky. We don't have a right to more resources than her just because she had the bad luck to be born into a poorer country. We have the responsibility to help those less fortunate than ourselves.

NellysKnickers Wed 23-Apr-14 11:19:24

Signed. Shocked by some responses on here.

Redhead4 Wed 23-Apr-14 11:31:03

Topaz- do you feel guilty every time you drink a glass of water knowing that there are people in the world who walk 3 hours to get dirty water?

I do not feel guilty for thinking about my children's future, I will send other country's money in order to improve the quality of life for the people within it but I am not willing to sacrifice my children's quality of life in the future to allow people to come into our country to disturb our already fragile state.

Nestabee Wed 23-Apr-14 11:47:06

Can I ask a question about these appeals in relation to the asylum process? If anyone knows?

Is an appeal going to be detrimental to other asylum seekers?

For example if this family get given asylum after an appeal, will they take the 'spot' of another asylum seeker family.

I always worry about higher profile asylum seekers who go to the papers etc and try for an appeal, taking the place of other asylum seekers who are not able to garner as much "public sympathy' or who cannot risk being identified even within this country.

FreudiansSlipper Wed 23-Apr-14 11:47:15

not sure where you live Redhead but my child seems to be surviving very well and has a very good quality of life, I can not see this all falling apart anytime soon

Jacamaar Wed 23-Apr-14 12:31:23

signed

Impatientismymiddlename Wed 23-Apr-14 13:25:51

Freudian- your children's quality of life and access to services might be affected if we took on the estimated 3 millions girls at risk of FGM every year.

The more I think about this case the more I feel concerned for those girls who, unlike this case, don't have a mother who is willing to do whatever it takes to protect their girls. Nigeria is a huge country and I don't believe that this mother will have to return to her home village and I do think that if all the people who have signed the petition had instead donated £1 to a charity specifically for this family the family would be able to resettle in a new region of Nigeria and have a greater chance of safety.

IceBeing Wed 23-Apr-14 13:48:33

Im with impatient and rehead. British resources for British people!

I would much rather the government spent our taxes bailing out banks and funding endless treatment of old age diseases than wasting any money on preventing the death or mutilation of children so worthless they weren't even born here.

I mean what the hell kind of world would it be if my own child's school (with its brand new outdoor play equipment and newly refurbished dining hall) had slightly less money to operate on each year just so some feckless foreigners could flee the forced removal of their genitals....

IceBeing Wed 23-Apr-14 13:52:23

Oh and I have signed.

Impatientismymiddlename Wed 23-Apr-14 13:56:56

Icebeing: nobody is saying that we should ignore these children so that our own children can have shiny new everything. Nobody is saying that these children are worthless because they were not born here. What a few of us have said is that we cannot possible take the 3 million children at risk of FGM every year. We only have around 11million children in Britain and we already have oversubscribed schools, a struggling health system, a housing shortage and an enormous national debt. If we took an extra 3 million children a year we would have doubled our child population within 4 years and we would not have the infrastructure to deal with it. In 10 years we would have an additional 30 million children. How would we pay for them?
I think it's a better use of money to fund aid in those countries where FGM is prevalent and to reduce it and hopefully eliminate it eventually. It isn't right that children should be fleeing their home country to feel safe in another strange country. Bringing children to a (currently) safe country is just putting a sticking plaster on one problem and creating another problem.

KateSMumsnet (MNHQ) Wed 23-Apr-14 14:02:19

Hi everyone,

We're just going to move this thread to our petitions noticeboard.

FreudiansSlipper Wed 23-Apr-14 14:05:13

but will as many see it can it not stay here for a few more days

IceBeing Wed 23-Apr-14 14:07:53

impatient but why assume that all the children would come here? As many have said other countries also offer asylum. And of course the real issue with this practise is that people on the ground still think it is necessary/beneficial so if only 1 in 10 Africans believe it is something to be escaped and only 1 in 10 of those come to Britain specifically then we only have 30,000 a year to worry about. This we could cope with...

Or we could if we were willing to have class sizes go up a bit....or is keeping class sizes for privileged british students down more important than keeping the genitals on non-british babies?

and we could do this AT THE SAME TIME as funding intervention in the countries concerned.

It is all a matter of priorities.

As the mother of a daughter I find keeping babies intact to be more important than most things our government currently spends money on.

Impatientismymiddlename Wed 23-Apr-14 14:12:46

I can think of a lot of things our government spends money on that could be better spent elsewhere. It doesn't change my stance that displacing families at risk of FGM to another country is not the best option. The children most at risk would not be coming to Britain because there would be nobody helping them to flee.

My 3 million figures were aimed at those that think it is feasible for us to take everyone at risk of FGM (was mentioned upthread).

FreudiansSlipper Wed 23-Apr-14 14:14:12

do not be so foolish we are not going to take on 3 million girls. that is right wing scarmongering

have we taken on all those that we can consider for asylum due to their circumstances

no of course not and never will as many many do not want to leave their home country, do not have the support to leave, have no thought of leaving

MummyPigsFatTummy Wed 23-Apr-14 14:14:45

Christ - only read the first page so apologies for not RTFT, but seriously, refusing to sign? The petition is asking the Home Office to reconsider the application on the basis of new evidence which was filed but appears to have been ignored in the decision. Hardly opening the floodgates is it?

IceBeing Wed 23-Apr-14 14:18:49

impatient I agree totally that it is not the best option...however I do not in any sense believe they are mutually exclusive. So lets do both!

Impatientismymiddlename Wed 23-Apr-14 14:22:43

The petition is asking the Home Office to reconsider the application on the basis of new evidence which was filed but appears to have been ignored in the decision

And if they reconsider and refuse asylum and then 'new' information comes to light which has been ignored? Does constantly reassessing the same cases cause a delay to other cases? How many cases present new evidence after a refused application?
Our home office don't refuse all cases, so they must have used some criteria to reach their decision.

IceBeing Wed 23-Apr-14 14:25:14

impatient it would be more cost effective to have criteria like: are you from nigeria and have female children? are you a terrorist? and if yes and then no, you let them in.

cheap efficient and would protect children.

lionheart Wed 23-Apr-14 14:25:22

I would be fatastically proud if we did advertise Britain as a safe place for women and girls who need to escape FGM.

Impatientismymiddlename Wed 23-Apr-14 14:29:05

Ice being: cost effective how? There is much more to the costs of asylum than just the home office assessment.
If only those two questions are asked then we would be opening the floodgates, because there would be no need to evidence the level of threat involved in each case.

MummyPigsFatTummy Wed 23-Apr-14 14:32:48

Impatient - personally, I would be happy for the Home Office to reconsider this case over and over again until they come to the decision that this family should not be sent back. And I don't mind about delay to other cases because presumably the people involved in those cases are safely over here too while their cases are being delayed and not being tortured or mutilated wherever they escaped from.

And like lionheart I too would be proud if we advertised Britain as a safe place for women and girls who need to escape FGM. Sadly, from all the other reports we here about families arranging for FGM to take place here, it seems it would be false advertising at the moment sad

Jesuisunepapillon Wed 23-Apr-14 14:40:42

Some responses on here are horrendous. Humans are mind bogglingly horrible sometimes.

Impatientismymiddlename Wed 23-Apr-14 14:41:42

And I don't mind about delay to other cases because presumably the people involved in those cases are safely over here too while their cases are being delayed and not being tortured or mutilated wherever they escaped from.

That isn't true, because like this family people can appeal even after they have been returned to their home country. Some of those cases do get overturned and the people come back. I am more than happy for those people assessed as most in need of asylum to be granted leave to stay here in Britain, but I don't think we can simplify the assessment process without opening the floodgates.

MinesAPintOfTea Wed 23-Apr-14 14:52:20

I haven't signed because I don't think that asylum decisions should be affected by how photogenic/media savvy the asylum seekers are. I do however intend to add FOWARD to my monthly charity donations when I start my new job.

I suggest everyone who feels for the plight of these girls sends £1 to them instead. It will hopefully help more African girls avoid FGM and child marriage.

MummyPigsFatTummy Wed 23-Apr-14 15:00:57

Thanks for that link Mines - I will do the same and agree it would be benefical for people to donate.

I don't see that making a donation and signing a petition need to be mutually exclusive, however, and I would also like these two children to be spared FGM if at all possible, as well as all the other millions who will hopefully be spared in the future if groups like FORWARD and others are successful.

Impatientismymiddlename Wed 23-Apr-14 15:25:14

Minesapint: I will also be making a donation to forward and will be checking if any volunteers are needed for FGM charities in my area. I will not sign the petition though because I trust our home office to grant asylum to those who need it most.

Roshbegosh Wed 23-Apr-14 15:29:44

I think we do need to support the charity to help those at risk of this utterly barbaric practice but it is insane to suggest that we should provide a safe haven for all the millions of families in the world with a child at risk of FGM. Really lionheart where would you house them all for a start?

MinesAPintOfTea Wed 23-Apr-14 15:47:12

Its not my link: someone put it up a page or so back and I thought it was worth repeating rather than just putting my statement about why I'm not signing. I have also checked the charity commission website and it looks legit.

Signing and donating are of course not mutually exclusive, but its perfectly possible to feel sympathy for their plight and want to do something to help without thinking that the appropriate something is to try to make the decision-process be influenced by public opinion/the media rather than objectively fair according to the law. You are free to disagree and think that the information in the public domain suggests that the decision to remove from the UK is unjust.

wannaBe Wed 23-Apr-14 18:21:20

it is insane to suggest that the decision to grant asylum to people should be based on public opinion. This isn't Disney where every poor person's wish can come true and we can help them all, currently we are cutting back services to our own citizens, the disabled, the elderly, the poor, we simply cannot accommodate everyone who has had or might have a hard time in their own country.

nickelbabe Wed 23-Apr-14 21:47:52

I personally couldn't give a flying fuck if the floodgates were opened onnthe back of this.

I do NOT want a girl to be mutilated because I decided my place in a school was more important.

Not in MY name

zippey Thu 24-Apr-14 01:21:25

I agree with nickelbabe. Its not about which country we were lucky or unlucky to have been born in.

We are all people of the world.

Let people be free to live and be where they want.

TaraKnowles Thu 24-Apr-14 02:23:29

How on the earth is the need for housing, education, free on point of delivery health care more important than protecting children from abuse?

And the UK is not the only destination for asylum seekers.

Roshbegosh Thu 24-Apr-14 07:41:16

Yes zippy that would work. Ha ha.

Meglet Thu 24-Apr-14 07:51:23

Signed. And what nickelbabe said.

JimmyCorkhill Thu 24-Apr-14 08:18:09

Signed.

lionheart Fri 25-Apr-14 13:03:57

latest

Not good at all.

zippey Fri 25-Apr-14 15:50:56

Shame on the UK Home Office.

I just think that nobody should be subjected to FGM - black or white, young or old, UK citizen or Worldwide citizen.

nickelbabe Fri 25-Apr-14 17:32:40

how on earth is she going to get away from her family? sad

they'll find her - their family reputation is badly at risk, refusing marriage and refusing fgm when.it's widely believed to be important.
they believe in the family reputation.enough that I'm convinced they'll hunt her down.

wannaBe Fri 25-Apr-14 17:59:32

so just how much extra tax are people prepared to pay to allow for the extra 130 million women who could potentially come and live here then?

It's not about a school place or a house, it is in fact far more fundamental than that. And we just don't have the resources to ccommodate everyone, and there has to be a system which is not based on emotional responses...

SinisterBuggyMonth Fri 25-Apr-14 18:55:19

Christ thats heartbreaking sad

ProcessYellowC Sat 26-Apr-14 01:43:06
Topaz25 Sat 26-Apr-14 09:46:08

That's great news ProcessYellowC Thank you to everyone who signed, let's keep sharing just in case!

ProcessYellowC Sat 26-Apr-14 10:25:38

Yes Topaz, thanks for starting the thread. It's only a temporary reprieve as far as I can tell. Change.org have emailed asking for me to email Theresa May but I am not convinced that bombarding her inbox would help?

Topaz25 Sat 26-Apr-14 10:25:47

This case is not setting a new precedent, each case is assessed individually and the UN and EU already recognise the risk of FGM as grounds for asylum. The UK has also taken a strong anti FGM stance. So saving these 2 girls is consistent with current policy and does not change the rules or open the gate for an extra 130 million women. Hopefully in the future more can be done to protect girls from FGM in their own country but that will be too late for these two little girls.

Topaz25 Sat 26-Apr-14 10:27:17

Sorry that was a response to wannaBe

Topaz25 Sat 26-Apr-14 10:29:46

ProcessYellowC Yes it's a temporary reprieve while they review the case. I don't think emailing her will hurt, it will show the strength of public opinion. She probably has admin support to help deal with her emails so it won't hinder her ability to do her job. The priority is the petition though.

twofalls Mon 28-Apr-14 09:39:18

Wannabe, but these children are here now. And one of the girls was born here. This petition isn't about inviting the 130million in the world at risk of this of FGM to come and live here. It is about protecting these 2 children, who are already living here.

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