Petition to get Richard III buried at York minster

(81 Posts)
Bunnygotwhacked Tue 30-Oct-12 12:07:30

ow.ly/eSlAq

Just that really if you agree would be great if you could sign this

laughtergoodmedicine Tue 30-Oct-12 12:11:31

Is the evidence strong that the bones are the right bones. Or was it all tongue in cheek. I wonder?

Bunnygotwhacked Tue 30-Oct-12 12:19:06

They are still waiting for confirmation but if it is him they are wanting him buried in Leicester according to the bbc

LoopyLoopsOlympicHoops Tue 30-Oct-12 12:21:51

/Why on earth does it matter where he is buried? confused

WorraLiberty Tue 30-Oct-12 12:23:05

Tourism and £££££'s Loopy

LoopyLoopsOlympicHoops Tue 30-Oct-12 12:23:48

Leicester needs that more than York.

LoopyLoopsOlympicHoops Tue 30-Oct-12 12:24:42

A nice glass coffin in Greyfriar's car park would be perfect

Saltire Tue 30-Oct-12 12:26:14

If he was King then surely he should be buried at Westminster Abbey, is not where they all are buried?

expatinscotland Tue 30-Oct-12 12:28:25

Has it been proven the bones are his?

He may also have been a murderer who usurped the throne by murder.

trixie123 Tue 30-Oct-12 12:29:28

No, Henry VIII is at Windsor, John is in somewhere like Peterborough, (he died at Newark). Regardless of if you think he was a good or bad king /person, IF the bones can be reasonably identified as his then yes, he should have a royal tomb, though ideally at minimal public expense - maybe the Richard III society could raise funds?

Bunnygotwhacked Tue 30-Oct-12 12:35:46

he supposedly had close ties with York and apparently wanted to be buried here www.historyofyork.org.uk/themes/medieval/king-richard-iii-and-york
though that source does come from the richard iii museum in york so might be biased

expatinscotland Tue 30-Oct-12 12:36:46

If he's a murderer then he shouldn't get much of a burial, IMO.

TunipTheHollowVegemalLantern Tue 30-Oct-12 12:38:12

I don't think it's made up, he started to build a chantry chapel in the Minster.

I'm torn tbh. I don't think there's much doubt it's where he wanted to be buried, but Leicester Cathedral could do with the tourism boost whereas the Minster is not short of visitors.

sue52 Tue 30-Oct-12 12:43:03

Is Leicester Cathedral Catholic? I assume he would have wanted full Catholic burial rites.

TheDeathAndGories Tue 30-Oct-12 12:45:24

York would make sense. Wasn't he the last king of the house of York?

TheDeathAndGories Tue 30-Oct-12 12:46:31

As for being a murderer, most royalty were in those days.

expatinscotland Tue 30-Oct-12 12:48:50

True, but his was murder of one who should have been the rightful king. The 'boy' Edward was 13 when he disappeared. He was preparing for coronation, well aware of succession.

TunipTheHollowVegemalLantern Tue 30-Oct-12 12:50:28

Both places are CofE.

FlobbadobbaBOO Tue 30-Oct-12 12:53:19

I'm confused about this, aren't the bones supposed to show signs of a hunchback when in reality he didn't have one? It was only Shakespeare who gave him the hunchback, he was apparently considered to be a very handsome man and very strong. He was married at York, crowned Prince of Wales there and grew up at Middleham Castle so if it is him York would be the choice.

TheDeathAndGories Tue 30-Oct-12 12:57:19

Oh I do t think we should give him a lavish funeral or anything but if we want to do it properly and also help the economy then stick his bones in York somewhere in a catholic bit

sue52 Tue 30-Oct-12 12:58:13

Would he allowed a Catholic funeral mass at a Cof E place of worship?

PrettyPrinceofDarkness Tue 30-Oct-12 13:11:41

I agree turnip. Leicester would benefit more from the tourist trade, but if it was his wish.... Reading the comments on that petition, I am surprised by how strongly people seem to feel about it.

TunipTheHollowVegemalLantern Tue 30-Oct-12 13:11:43

Well he's certainly going to miss out on those 100 priests to say Masses for his soul that he had planned....
Mind you, it was 500 years ago, surely he's out of Purgatory by now?

TunipTheHollowVegemalLantern Tue 30-Oct-12 13:14:44

Yorkshire has a very strong regional identity. A lot of people around here fly Yorkshire flags and make a very big deal of it.

Oneminute Tue 30-Oct-12 13:15:11

Lots of historians argue Tudor propagandists were responsible for Richard's "evil" appearance. You can track the changes in his physical appearance in paintings etc as the propaganda against him becomes more extreme. Shakespeare was in the pay of a Tudor monarch. (vague memories of a course at university many years ago...)

I think he should be buried in Leicester. The Leicester Greyfriars took him in.

Besides which, most medieval kings told several foundations they wanted to be buried there and then changed their minds - it's a common mark of favour, so I am not sure it carries the same force as we might think today, when someone says where they'd like to be buried.

trixie123 Tue 30-Oct-12 13:21:38

Also the city of York was actually Lancastrian for much of the War of the Roses (much to the confusion of my 12 year old students)

kim147 Tue 30-Oct-12 13:25:25

There's the Richard III museum in York - you get to see the evidence for and against him. It would have been interesting if DS hadn't been in a rush rather than spending an hour carefully studying the evidence.

CogitoEerilySpooky Tue 30-Oct-12 13:26:59

Have I missed something? Why does this matter? I know in the olden days a juicy relic would have the pilgrims flocking ... does someone think the bones of King Dicky will be a big tourist attraction?

I think Leicester needs all the tourist attraction it can get, cogito! grin

There's not a lot else there, so yes, I'm sure people would go look.

FlobbadobbaBOO Tue 30-Oct-12 13:39:48

We visited Bosworth Field a few years ago when down that way... I suppose if it is him and he ends up in Leicester it would be more interesting than where he actually died! IIR correctly they put the car park around the spot he supposedly fell..
cog I think the interest is around the whole 'whodunnit' thing with the Princes in the tower. Some believe he did it, others that he was stitched up in death by people with political interest in Demonising him.

Northernlurkerisbehindyouboo Tue 30-Oct-12 13:43:41

He belongs to York. Much beloved by the citizens of the York of his day and he can come home to us. Murderer or not (and I think not) York is the place most closely associated with him. Leicester? Come on! Who wants to be buried in Leicester!

zukiecat Tue 30-Oct-12 13:48:40

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MooncupGoddess Tue 30-Oct-12 13:49:39

Hmm. My sympathies are instinctively with Leicester for the reasons LRD gives, and the tourism potential, but it is rather an unexciting, mostly Victorian restoration cathedral than only achieved cathedral status in 1927. Whereas York Minster is an amazing building and would have been well known to Richard... it was consecrated in 1472 when he was based nearby at Middleham (I wonder if he was present at the consecration? Very possible).

GetOrfAKAMrsUsainBolt Tue 30-Oct-12 13:51:44

lol at 'who wants to be buried in Leicester' grin

TunipTheHollowVegemalLantern Tue 30-Oct-12 13:52:48

I just asked my 5 and 7 year olds and was amazed how passionate they felt about burying him in York.
DD: Because that's where he wanted to be buried.
Tunip: But he's dead. He'll never know.
DD & DS1: But that's not FAIR!

I think they would take a very dim view of my arguments in favour of the Leicester tourist trade.

Northernlurkerisbehindyouboo Tue 30-Oct-12 13:58:14

Getorf grin - you see where I'm coming from I think!

We've got the best Archbishop here too. John Sentamu can do the funeral service. Now that would be fantastic!

ScabbyColdCrustyCatPuss Tue 30-Oct-12 13:58:53

Westminster Abbey. There's no reason for Richard to have murdered the princes. He could more than likely have had a hand in the deaths of Henry V or his brother Gloucester, but the princes? Not likely!

TurquoiseFrankenCat Tue 30-Oct-12 14:01:31

The Guildhall in Leicester was built in 1390 and is right next door to Leicester Cathedral. I'm sure Richard III would have also been aware of this building. Plus the tourism money would really help the council from having to close this amazing and historical building as a free museum.

Let Leicester have the bones!! (We found 'em anyway, as finders keepers grin).

ExitPursuedByAaaaaarGhoul Tue 30-Oct-12 14:02:24

Discussion on pm on R4 yesterday between two Labour MPs - one for Leicester and the other for Worksop. Worksop Priory has a tomb ready and waiting for him apparently confused claiming it was the centre of his kingdom.

Eddie Mair made a terrible pun "My kingdom for a hearse".

EdithWeston Tue 30-Oct-12 14:05:24

Not all monarchs are in Westminster Abbey.

When will they know whether it's him or not?

EdithWeston Tue 30-Oct-12 14:06:32

Or we could be nicely mediaeval, accord him the respect given to, say, saints and pit a bit of him in any place that wants him.

TunipTheHollowVegemalLantern Tue 30-Oct-12 14:08:33

Mid-Jan according to something I read (linked on the thread in History Club).

You can't mean Henry V ScabbyColdCrustyCatPuss?

GetOrfAKAMrsUsainBolt Tue 30-Oct-12 14:08:53

I think there should be a great big fight It's a Royal Knockour stylee between Leicester and York digitaries. Gary Lineker can represent Leicester.

Not all royals are in Westminster, there is a medieval king in my local cathedral (Gloucester) - Edward II iirc, anyway the one who died by having a red hot poker shoved up his bottom. Poor bastard.

TunipTheHollowVegemalLantern Tue 30-Oct-12 14:09:42

Oh Edith that's a nice medieval idea. Do you want to start a new petition? wink

TunipTheHollowVegemalLantern Tue 30-Oct-12 14:11:14

Sentamu v Lineker.

Sentamu can bash Lineker with his bishop's crook.

EdithWeston Tue 30-Oct-12 14:12:19

It should be a duel, perhaps, between HRH Duke of York and the 7th Earl of Leicester?

(Is the latter a descendant of Dudley? The line was extinct for a while).

Northernlurkerisbehindyouboo Tue 30-Oct-12 14:12:23

Richard would have struggled to murder Henry V. He died a few decades before Richard's birth I think. You mean Henry VI I think? And the brother would be the Duke of Clarence?

PrettyPrinceofDarkness Tue 30-Oct-12 14:13:13

nothing in Leicester? Nothing in Leicester?

Pfft the cheek of it! There's the Newark museum, The National Space Centre, europe's biggest covered market, erm, did I mention the space centre?

I grew up in Leicestershire but now live in Yorkshire. Bosworth park is pretty dull, though they've added a new visitor bit now and the re-enactments are pretty cool.

ExitPursuedByAaaaaarGhoul Tue 30-Oct-12 14:14:20

What about Worksop....

GetOrfAKAMrsUsainBolt Tue 30-Oct-12 14:15:46

lol at nothing in Leicester, in stereo, in italics. grin

I like slightly crappy midlands towns. Best night out ever in Chesterfield, of all places. People in Derbyshire are nice <tangent>

Northernlurkerisbehindyouboo Tue 30-Oct-12 14:18:11

Getorf - try Grantham. Now that's a crappy midlands town. Spawned one Margaret Hilda Roberts.........

Sentamu could flatten Linekar btw. We also have Dame Judi Dench in our corner.

Bunnygotwhacked Tue 30-Oct-12 14:20:14

No point to this post but it would be a bit rude not to use the excuse to see it www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6JczvS1PL4

GetOrfAKAMrsUsainBolt Tue 30-Oct-12 14:20:37

Alfreton. A crane factory and the Heights of Abraham <woooo>

Bunnygotwhacked Tue 30-Oct-12 14:20:40

what are the woksopp conections?

ExitPursuedByAaaaaarGhoul Tue 30-Oct-12 14:22:09

Dunno - the MP was on R4 saying they had a tomb ready prepared for him in the Priory - as Worksop would have been at the centre of his kingdom (half way twixt York and Leicester).

I think he was just after the publicity.

PrettyPrinceofDarkness Tue 30-Oct-12 14:23:41

Ok. They should be an X factor style sing off!

For Leicester we have Englebert Humperdink, Showaddywaddy, Kasabian and Corner Shop.

For York we have Pulp, Joe Cocker, Kaiser Cheifs and the Thompson Twins.

NewKateMumsnet (MNHQ) Tue 30-Oct-12 14:24:04

Hi everyone,

We're going to move this thread to petitions soon, its proper, rightful resting place wink

Feel free to start up a discussion in chat about where Richard III should be buried though.

EdithWeston Tue 30-Oct-12 14:25:20

Grantham has a Richard III connexion: he arranged the Duke of Buckingham's death warrant from the Angel and Royal there.

St Wulfram's is an amazing church.

EdithWeston Tue 30-Oct-12 14:26:48

Please, please please: would you reconsider?

Edit out the petition link, and move to the History Club?

Bunnygotwhacked Tue 30-Oct-12 14:27:50

Sorry Kate didn't know there was a petition section

ScabbyColdCrustyCatPuss Tue 30-Oct-12 14:28:12

Sorry, Henry VI!

PrettyPrinceofDarkness Tue 30-Oct-12 14:29:22

Ooh, I used to live near Alfreton. Had a tramway museum in my village. Derbyshire people are the loveliest.

Listen here, Worksop, you've got Mr Straw's house and are trying to claim Robin Hood so get your mitts off Richard. God, they're just greedy for the heritage.

ExitPursuedByAaaaaarGhoul Tue 30-Oct-12 14:29:56

Eek - if we can't decide where the thread should go, what hope is there for the remains grin

Signed the petition.

ScarePhyllis Tue 30-Oct-12 14:42:44

This is fascinating. My history teacher at school was a vocal member of the Richard III Society. I wonder if any of the Royal Family will go to the re-interment? I wonder if the Queen gets to decide what happens.

York, I think, on the basis that most of its fabric was contemporary with him and is not a Victorian bodge-job.

Saltire George II was the last monarch to be buried in Westminster Abbey - there is no more room for royal burials. They have been buried at St George's Windsor, except for Victoria and her mad mausoleum at Frogmore.

My guess is that they will skip over the awkward fact of the Reformation by just doing reburial prayers and not a full on funeral. It's not as though the contemporary RCC would have been recognisable to him anyway.

Oooh! New thought! They could use the York Missal that was used in the North before Henry VIII - how super awesome would that be!

LeeCoakley Tue 30-Oct-12 14:42:53

I'm all of a dither.

York is not calling to me but I can see why that would be an obvious choice. I like the thought of him being with his wife in Westminster Abbey yet Leicester seems to be the right place. He is associated in most people's minds with dying at Bosworth so if you go to the battlefield it seems logical that his bones nearby. Obviously I am looking at this from a touristy angle. Oh decisions decisions....

Northernlurkerisbehindyouboo Tue 30-Oct-12 14:55:07

Edith - St Wulframs and the Angel are about the only good bits in Grantham. Although it does have an Eleanor cross too.

ExitPursuedByAaaaaarGhoul Tue 30-Oct-12 14:57:57

Off to Google York Missal

Sorry for my 'nothing in Leicester' comment. It was slightly tongue-in-cheek, and the result of growing up just over the border into Nottinghamshire.

I do love (and miss) the market, but it never ceases to amaze me that a town that should have so much history is really pretty blase about it.

PrettyPrinceofDarkness Tue 30-Oct-12 15:14:22

No worries Dragon, I think I took it in the spirit it was meant! Notice that the space centre appears twice on my list! My dad always says how ugly the city centre is and that they've lost so much of the historical architecture. I used to shop at the market in my lunch break and get bags of fresh veg for next to nothing. I miss that too.

grin Good to hear!

I love the centre despite the ugliness - it's so vibrant and bustly. And great food.

But York has so much money from tourism - it'd be lovely to see a bit of an upsurge for Leicester. And, selfishly, I suspect it'd prompt more work on medieval Leicester in the fifteenth century, and I would like someone to do that. There's shedloads on medieval York already.

TunipTheHollowVegemalLantern Tue 30-Oct-12 15:25:49

Sorry for hijack, just wanted to point LRD to this thread where she may be able to help.

Thanks tunip (wow, so jealous of her PhD plans! grin)

TunipTheHollowVegemalLantern Tue 30-Oct-12 15:38:56

Thanks LRD, I knew you would have good advice for her smile

Indeed, my skills in travelling to a city-that-shall-remain-nameless are honed. That's my main PhD skill, really, doing an eight-hour round trip in a day and still wanting to discuss the relative merits of York and Leicester.

TheDeathAndGories Tue 30-Oct-12 15:41:43

You're doing it. I'm being tempted towards Leicester
Not in person of course. It would take more than bones to make me bother going there

grin

Yay! Go Leicester!

It could be worse: it could be Derby.

PrettyPrinceofDarkness Tue 30-Oct-12 16:16:38

What have you got against Derby? What's Derby ever done to you?!!grin

Have you been to Kayal by the train station? Excellent food. It's South Indian and they do dosas, which are like a lovely savoury pancake.

Many, many, many terrible things, pretty. I couldn't possibly say.

But no, not been to kayal ... I need to, clearly! I love dosas.

TunipTheHollowVegemalLantern Tue 30-Oct-12 16:32:52

The fact that when I went there in January all excited about seeing the Joseph Wrights it turned out they were all put away somewhere while the gallery was redisplayed?

OK I should have checked the website beforehand. But they should have found somewhere to put the most important ones during the major redisplay. They are the most important thing in Derby, after all.

Oh and the football team is useless and makes DH and MIL miserable because they are foolish enough to support it.

PrettyPrinceofDarkness Tue 30-Oct-12 21:07:05

Mmmm dosas! Dh bought me one from the sister restaurant on Wellington Road while I was in the Royal after giving birth. Much nicer than hospital food!

Kayal

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